**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 06 02:59:58 2010 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 06 08:26:14 2010 Jul 06 08:38:12 Hi, all! Yesterday I was trying to compile meego RPMS using mock with a Fedora 12 chroot, but a lot of packages failed at compilation. Can it be caused because Fedora 12 is an old distro? Jul 06 08:38:36 or because they rely on actually being compiled with meego? :P Jul 06 08:39:39 Ok, in that case how can I compile these packages from scratch? Jul 06 08:40:06 set up a OBS, import all rpms, set up prjconf :P Jul 06 08:40:13 ChildOfGod: this tutorial is quite good: http://tuxradar.com/content/clutter-beginners-tutorial Jul 06 08:40:30 Stskeeps: there isn't another option? Jul 06 08:40:33 hey thanks bpeel Jul 06 08:40:37 it's the best one Jul 06 08:42:25 ok, with OBS I can modify sources from meego and after that compile them with the rest of meego packages and obtain a customized meego image? Jul 06 08:42:51 well, you can do that, combined with mic2.. Jul 06 08:44:17 thanks! My first approach was to compile all meego sources (from repo) using mock, after that create my own local repository and use mic2 with it to create my own meego image Jul 06 08:45:21 what arch were you targetting? Jul 06 08:45:24 x86 Jul 06 08:45:44 I want to learn how to modify some meego sources by hand Jul 06 08:50:42 slaine told me yesterday that my approach wasn't the best, but I could try it Jul 06 08:51:20 so, using an alternative distro as a base system to compile meego RPMS is not a good idea Jul 06 08:52:46 Even compiling in Moblin failed previously Jul 06 08:54:40 was prjconfs for obs out back then? Jul 06 08:55:43 Stskeeps: i'm still looking for a useful explanation for why kernel and linux exist (as rpms!) ;-) Jul 06 08:56:11 url for those rpms? Jul 06 08:56:18 um, blah Jul 06 08:57:21 http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/trunk/repo/source/kernel-2.6.33.2-17.1.src.rpm is the kernel one Jul 06 08:57:24 * timeless_mbp wonders where the linux one is Jul 06 08:57:44 * timeless_mbp grumbles Jul 06 08:58:17 * timeless_mbp wonders if the other one is kernel-headers Jul 06 08:58:41 yeah, i think it might be Jul 06 08:59:31 assuming it's the kernel-headers one Jul 06 08:59:39 http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/trunk/repo/source/kernel-headers-2.6.33-2.1.src.rpm Jul 06 09:00:21 -rw-rw-r-- 1 timeless timeless 65M May 16 06:49 SRPMS/kernel-2.6.33.2-17.1.src.rpm Jul 06 09:00:21 -rw-rw-r-- 1 timeless timeless 64M May 16 06:49 SRPMS/kernel-headers-2.6.33-2.1.src.rpm Jul 06 09:00:27 Stskeeps: yes, there was a config and example for using 'build' Jul 06 09:00:41 so this is someone's idea of a joke Jul 06 09:00:50 making people download the entire kernel just to get the headers Jul 06 09:00:54 * timeless_mbp loves linux distributions Jul 06 09:01:37 if you're going to do that, surely you could just make the headers package depend on the kernel source package and use some magic Jul 06 09:01:41 save people some space Jul 06 09:02:39 and don't tell me you're doing me a favor by giving me a *different* version of my kernel's headers than the one i got for the kernel itself Jul 06 09:02:39 timeless_mbp: looks like a mistake to me. Typically the kernel source rpm would generate the kernel-headers binary rpm Jul 06 09:03:07 slaine: ok, so i should file a bug complaining that kernel-headers-*.src.rpm exists at all? Jul 06 09:03:14 I would Jul 06 09:03:19 * timeless_mbp will Jul 06 09:03:20 thanks all Jul 06 09:03:33 am i using repo.meego.com for this stuff? Jul 06 09:03:42 * timeless_mbp does Jul 06 09:11:51 fwiw, the current versions of this disaster seem to be: Jul 06 09:11:52 http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/preview/core/repos/source/kernel-2.6.35~rc3-121.3.src.rpm Jul 06 09:11:52 http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/preview/core/repos/source/kernel-headers-2.6.34-1.3.src.rpm Jul 06 09:12:01 notice the 2.6.34 v. 2.6.35 ! Jul 06 09:13:56 Bug 3702 submitted Jul 06 09:23:33 hy all Jul 06 09:23:42 hi curiosity Jul 06 09:23:59 hy amjad Jul 06 09:24:23 nice to see live person here Jul 06 09:25:29 nah, amjad's a bot ;-) Jul 06 09:26:02 sure meego bot :) Jul 06 09:26:03 c'mon, isn't there real "person" here? Jul 06 09:26:24 i'm in bot land, help mee Jul 06 09:26:34 hahaha curiosity :) Jul 06 09:26:49 gadget gadget Jul 06 09:27:13 there isn't such a thing as "real person" Jul 06 09:27:21 there are real _people_, even here Jul 06 09:27:56 is timeless bot? Jul 06 09:28:01 yes Jul 06 09:28:15 i ask the other, not u timeless Jul 06 09:28:33 timeless is a bot, he exists all time here :) Jul 06 09:28:44 * timeless nods Jul 06 09:28:52 * timeless_mbp points to timeless Jul 06 09:28:59 * timeless points back Jul 06 09:29:08 but, i think timeless is good bot Jul 06 09:29:09 hehe Jul 06 09:29:42 oh right we don't have gavin here Jul 06 09:29:43 * timeless_mbp offers curiositybanget an article ("a") Jul 06 09:29:53 dm8tbr: heh, yeah, i'll have to be his stand in Jul 06 09:30:00 he's in #maemo :o Jul 06 09:30:07 O.O Jul 06 09:30:17 hy dm8tbr Jul 06 09:30:31 dm8tbr <<< real person Jul 06 09:30:34 right? Jul 06 09:30:49 * dm8tbr throws himself a botsnack Jul 06 09:30:53 omnomnomnom Jul 06 09:31:05 hehe, nice try Jul 06 09:33:22 hmm Jul 06 09:42:50 *wow* Jul 06 09:42:57 * timeless_mbp just called O'Reilly Jul 06 09:43:16 my call was answered nearly immediately by a real person who was quite eager to help Jul 06 09:43:39 when she realized she didn't quite know the site too well she offered to transfer me to someone else (while i figured out how to direct one of them) Jul 06 09:43:48 and he quickly took my feedback Jul 06 09:43:57 such a strange experience Jul 06 09:44:23 (someone mis-wrote MeeGo and Qt fwiw) Jul 06 09:47:21 how's that possible. it's just two letters Jul 06 09:49:10 dm8btr: outsourcing may be the reason :) Jul 06 10:12:25 == Jul 06 10:25:20 i am trying to install qt-mobility 1.0.0 with 4.6.2 qt and qmf. It doesn't find bluetooth/bluetooth.h, how can i get those to meego? Jul 06 10:29:01 sbalazs: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-newbie-8/yum-search-file-781427/ Jul 06 10:34:01 Maemo had a good set of LBS Jul 06 10:34:09 they would work natively on MeeGo right Jul 06 10:40:26 LBS? Jul 06 10:41:55 krypton, do you mean linux benchmarks? Jul 06 10:42:23 no I meant location based services Jul 06 10:42:57 krypton, that clarification would have helped! Jul 06 10:43:02 which meego do you mean Jul 06 10:43:14 netbook or handheld or something else Jul 06 10:53:42 lcuk: LBS is for handheld, something to use for travel apps Jul 06 10:54:24 amjad, thats deviceist though :P im sure there are netbooks and bigger devices with gps built in Jul 06 10:54:42 netbook Jul 06 10:54:59 sorry I meant for handheld UX Jul 06 10:55:05 since its not out I cant check it Jul 06 10:55:13 any insight would be helpful Jul 06 10:57:00 krypton, tthe qt sdk includes simulator for this sort of thing afaik - i believe it can send fake gps signals into your app to test it Jul 06 10:57:57 yes Jul 06 10:58:05 geo * calls can do that Jul 06 12:08:23 q Jul 06 12:18:52 is there anybody who managed to build qt mob 1.0.0 like http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-June/003474.html? Jul 06 12:39:41 hi all Jul 06 12:39:56 i am new to meego Jul 06 12:40:12 i see meego IVI car image is there, with yet another desktop - does this mean that xfce is part of meego? Jul 06 12:41:07 from where i can get the basic tutorial about meego. Jul 06 12:43:08 * timeless frowns Jul 06 12:43:18 tekojo ran away for a vacation Jul 06 12:43:24 like most finns Jul 06 12:43:37 yes timeless - in his cottage or something equally finnish Jul 06 12:44:02 and i dont blame him, weather is sounding amazing Jul 06 12:44:11 ok americans (read intel folks) will be back today after long weekend :) Jul 06 12:45:12 * timeless has invaded tracker space Jul 06 12:45:21 or something Jul 06 13:07:11 amjad: some of us Americans are unfortunate to have the wrong employers Jul 06 14:23:23 heh w00t_ what i was saying at tsg meeting about automated tests: http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2010/07/06/doh/ pleased it was caught Jul 06 14:46:46 mornin DawnFoster Jul 06 14:46:59 morning stskeeps Jul 06 14:48:48 morning DawnFoster \o Jul 06 14:49:06 morning lcuk Jul 06 14:49:17 DawnFoster: are you done with metrics yet? i have time to run irc stats if they're not :) Jul 06 14:49:36 I'm still working on the metrics. Jul 06 14:49:49 alright, i'll go make a run then Jul 06 14:50:06 we had a 3 day weekend here, so I'm still digging out of email. Jul 06 14:50:47 lcuk: unfortunately, that one didn't get caught by automated testing :/ which is a shame Jul 06 14:50:52 w00t also ran a copy of the IRC stats on his server Jul 06 14:50:58 hey w00t_ Jul 06 14:51:08 w00t_, its always the way ! like i said in the meeting ;) Jul 06 14:51:20 Stskeeps: i already ran a copy of stats, since didn't know when you were going to be around at the time :-) Jul 06 14:51:25 w00t_: ah, fair enough Jul 06 14:51:29 I think the time zone was different, so it makes some of it difficult to compare Jul 06 14:51:33 ah Jul 06 14:51:41 perhaps you should still run yours then, Stskeeps Jul 06 14:51:44 am doing Jul 06 14:52:17 DawnFoster, i see the IVI in car system came online and joined meego Jul 06 14:52:24 w00t_: looks like you guys had a great meeting yesterday! I was just catching up on the notes Jul 06 14:52:39 DawnFoster: a better reception than I expected :) Jul 06 14:53:19 w00t_: That's how you know you're doing something that really needed to be done :) Jul 06 14:53:27 how was your weekend btw? Jul 06 14:54:25 the weekend was great. Hung out with friends and was pretty lazy - which I needed Jul 06 14:54:45 spent a lot of time reading and lounging around, which was awesome Jul 06 14:54:46 * Stskeeps is happy and refreshed after a week in the sun as well Jul 06 14:54:53 http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/data/irssistats-june.html -> DawnFoster Jul 06 14:55:02 stskeeps: how was your holiday? Jul 06 14:55:22 was great, a lot of great music, sun and beer Jul 06 14:55:36 even though i did have to pop a bit on to check how handset day one was happening :P Jul 06 14:57:27 Stskeeps: one thing i have which you might find helpful.. i did a lot of nick mapping Jul 06 14:57:36 * w00t_ finds Jul 06 14:57:48 we should probably start setting up a wiki page with how to implement 'official' irc stuff Jul 06 14:58:00 i thought we were waiting on hardware for that? (but yes, agreed) Jul 06 14:58:11 Stskeeps: oh, I ran #meego-arm too Jul 06 14:58:16 not sure if you want to do that or not Jul 06 14:58:49 I also think we need to look at the IRC channels and consolidate a bit. Jul 06 14:59:04 lots of overlap right now between meego, meego-arm and meego-dev Jul 06 14:59:17 people don't know what to post in which channel Jul 06 14:59:24 exactly Jul 06 14:59:28 that is true, but on the other hand, meego-arm is for work Jul 06 14:59:49 but random people post user questions there, too Jul 06 14:59:53 meego-dev isn't an official channel to my knowledge? Jul 06 15:00:07 lbt and others have started to use it for work Jul 06 15:00:14 (meego-dev) Jul 06 15:00:16 mmm Jul 06 15:00:30 I'd like to get rid of meego-arm & meego-dev and replace them with meego-work Jul 06 15:00:41 DawnFoster: i personally think it's a bad idea and may cause us to revert back to internal jabber, which is the last thing we should be doing. Jul 06 15:01:07 cd /join #meego-dev Jul 06 15:01:11 *nod* actually we've been on jabber today.... *bad* team ! Jul 06 15:01:11 lbt: what do you think? It seems like people have been posting a lot of random dev questions in your work channel Jul 06 15:01:43 any plans to make registration manadatory for joining meego channels?? Jul 06 15:01:54 DawnFoster: I think it's been working ... but we've been the only ones in it at the time Jul 06 15:01:58 and it seems like people post a lot of random user questions to meego-arm, too Jul 06 15:02:10 amjad, I think thats a bad idea, at least for the main #meego channel. Maybe for the work channels Jul 06 15:02:11 DawnFoster: a work channel makes it possible to actually follow the traffic in a channel and catch up. multiple topics unrelated will cause people to not be able to track, lesson learned from #meego Jul 06 15:02:19 er, #maemo Jul 06 15:02:21 I'm happy to kick^H^H^H^ politely point people to #meego though Jul 06 15:02:35 Stskeeps: that is what is being proposed: #meego-work Jul 06 15:02:48 w00t_: that will get cluttered with a lot of irrelevant talk. Jul 06 15:03:15 at least 95% of our topics revolve around ARM. Jul 06 15:04:01 In one year time we have 1000 people working on something, you really don't want them all in one channel ;) Jul 06 15:04:16 Number purely fictional though.. Jul 06 15:04:18 moving into the open should not be a bother, people should be able to do their work. in a big channel it will be difficult to point out who's good as potential new team members. Jul 06 15:05:30 * lbt is having a *skype* chat atm about meego... Jul 06 15:05:32 stskeeps: on day one the arm channel was flooded with user questions Jul 06 15:05:45 anaZ: ... on here? Jul 06 15:05:46 Termana: when android irc came up, it was open but once G1 was released #android required registration, so within one year when number of meego users will increase and most of these are new to linux Jul 06 15:05:52 DawnFoster: I idle there all day, it really isn't an issue. Jul 06 15:06:18 I just think there has to be some better way to handle the IRC channels. Jul 06 15:06:26 amjad: cross that bridge when it happens, no need to jump the gun Jul 06 15:06:39 DawnFoster: With lots of people and lost of subjects, you just can't share one channel. Jul 06 15:06:50 X-Fade agreed Jul 06 15:07:01 amjad, so what your saying is that we should require registration so that we push away people who are new and have questions? (in the main meego channel) Jul 06 15:07:12 I'm just trying to find a way to better consolidate the user questions and keep them out of the work channels Jul 06 15:07:26 DawnFoster: Just point them to #meego. Jul 06 15:07:34 DawnFoster: And people will point them onwards. Jul 06 15:07:34 DawnFoster: user questions go to #meego or forums Jul 06 15:07:48 stskeeps / X-Fade: agreed Jul 06 15:07:49 no, i am saying we have forums are newbies, irc channel should be for those who have basic knowledge of linux,irc Jul 06 15:08:14 amjad: I'd really rather we not start a caste system. Jul 06 15:08:22 but I've been monitoring all 3 channels, and that isn't happening in practice Jul 06 15:08:53 DawnFoster: if we're going to consolidate, we need the 'active' groups like release engineering and so on to sit and talk in public. Jul 06 15:09:22 thing is really that a channel of our own for arm for instance, builds community feel. Jul 06 15:09:44 and allows people to join in easily, without having to fight through a lot of other discussions Jul 06 15:10:02 I also worry about fragmentation / bloat - will every team want their own IRC channel? Jul 06 15:10:15 why shouldn't they though? it is a common pattern in many companies. Jul 06 15:10:19 DawnFoster: Fragmentation is good. Jul 06 15:10:24 I think if you consolidate the work channels, your going to get overlapping discussions that can't be followed Jul 06 15:10:27 lbt: what exactly are you using meego-dev for? Jul 06 15:10:28 As long as there is an index. Jul 06 15:10:29 the important thing is that people know where to go. Jul 06 15:10:38 ie, listings, logs Jul 06 15:10:44 infrastructure Jul 06 15:10:46 fragmentation isn't good from a community standpoint Jul 06 15:11:05 or I should say too much fragmentation too early isn't good Jul 06 15:11:08 except it isn't fragmentation, just like floors in a building isn't :) Jul 06 15:11:09 This project is targetting more people than your avarage project though. Jul 06 15:11:19 things will naturally start to fragment later Jul 06 15:11:47 DawnFoster: MeeGo has multiple interests. Even UX will separate groups. Jul 06 15:11:51 That is not a bad thing. Jul 06 15:12:26 if too much gets fragmented early, it looks like nothing is happening. People go to meego-dev outside of Nokia working hours and assume that no one is working on meego-dev, since they don't see any activity Jul 06 15:12:54 it does look in general like nothing is happening because not many people are working in the open. end of story. Jul 06 15:12:59 DawnFoster: Encourage your teams to work outside. Jul 06 15:13:07 X-Fade: I agree that not everything can be lumped together. I'm trying to make sure that the right things are separate and that we don't separate things too early Jul 06 15:13:09 DawnFoster: I don't see a lot of intel work being done in the open? Jul 06 15:13:23 X-Fade: I don't think a pissing contest is really helpful Jul 06 15:13:30 The intel work is being done mostly on the mailing lists and in bugzilla. Jul 06 15:13:36 w00t_: No, but lead by example is important here. Jul 06 15:13:53 What about if we had an eggdrop (or similar IRC bot) that relays everything that's happening in the separate dev channels into one channel? Jul 06 15:13:56 That is what I wanted to point out. I would win the contest anyway ;) Jul 06 15:15:24 That would consolidate the talk between the channels. You could also have it as a double relay between certain related channels if needed/wanted. Jul 06 15:16:01 lbt: I would still like to know which team is using meego-dev and what you are working on. Jul 06 15:16:01 For teams working together a real-time medium is needed. Jul 06 15:16:15 * lbt is in a meeting right now.... be back RSN Jul 06 15:16:23 x-Fade: that only works when all of the teams are in the same time zone Jul 06 15:16:32 backlog even helps a lot in that regard Jul 06 15:16:38 They don't use forums or mailinglists for most of that, they use the coffeemachine talks. Jul 06 15:16:39 if you can read a backlog in 3 minutes, you are up to date Jul 06 15:16:42 Intel teams are spread out all over the work with big offices in the US, London, Beijing Jul 06 15:16:56 DawnFoster: That is what page-up is for. Jul 06 15:17:09 DawnFoster: can i draw an analogue to mailing lists consolidation? there was a lot of teams wanting mailing lists, got pointed to the common lists, .. they vanished as teams instead of showing up on mailing lists, i would say Jul 06 15:17:14 DawnFoster, is obs ever going to be public? (or is it already?) Jul 06 15:17:21 I wasn't logged into meego-dev over the holiday weekend and the logs aren't posted in the topic Jul 06 15:17:46 (some still broke through, so i might be generalising) Jul 06 15:17:47 X-Fade: please treat me with a tiny bit of respect. Jul 06 15:18:21 i think we need to describe what purpose each channel has Jul 06 15:18:28 if someone can point me to the mythical meego-dev logs, I'm happy to read them Jul 06 15:18:28 DawnFoster: I'm sorry if you feel offended, this is again a 'Can't see the face' issue. Jul 06 15:18:45 * Stskeeps doesn't log #meego-dev Jul 06 15:18:51 exactly Jul 06 15:19:07 technically we/you (CO) control #meego namespace. Jul 06 15:19:13 as in, #meego-whatever Jul 06 15:19:21 and the topic descriptions don't make it easy for common community members to know what each channel is being used for Jul 06 15:19:41 god im glad the OS wasnt called #c something Jul 06 15:19:54 c#? Jul 06 15:20:14 well Stskeeps saying we control namespace under #meego Jul 06 15:20:49 Stskeeps: yeah, I am an admin for the namespace, but I'm trying to get a sense for how people are using things before I make any changes Jul 06 15:20:53 :nod: Jul 06 15:21:16 * tripzero thinks there should be ux specific channels, ie #meego-handset Jul 06 15:21:16 I don't want to do something unnatural, which is why we're having this discussion now :) Jul 06 15:21:16 w00t_: is it possible to get a list of all registered channels underneath #meego? Jul 06 15:21:20 yes Jul 06 15:21:28 /msg alis list #meego* Jul 06 15:23:09 tripzero: in the future, if there's people working on them and lots of discussion/work specifically on them, I'd agree.. but so far I haven't seen that Jul 06 15:23:32 so you'd create them and have them with few people and confused newcomers asking how to get images working (better suited for #meego really) and getting no response Jul 06 15:25:52 DawnFoster: my last counterargument (before i start being constructive) against consolidation is that work has grown in smaller channels, people gotten to know eachother based on a common topic, while this channel has turned mostly quiet, even given the large consolidation of topics re meego and plenty of work going on. now, how do we move on regarding this topic? i propose we write up a wiki, note some people who's handling IRC ... Jul 06 15:25:58 ... matters, get channels under CO control (as intended), policies for logging, who handles what.. Jul 06 15:26:51 i'll be adding you to meego-arm access list Jul 06 15:26:59 DawnFoster: our team does this stuff: http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-infrastructure-tools on #meego-dev Jul 06 15:27:52 we're *starting* to use it ... but still go back to jabber by habit from time-to-time Jul 06 15:28:00 Stskeeps: get information and policies to make informed decisions, you mean Jul 06 15:28:02 stskeeps: we don't need to make any big changes right now until I get a better feel for what's working / not working Jul 06 15:28:04 :nod: Jul 06 15:28:12 we've effectively emptied our internal jabber, which i'm immensely happy about Jul 06 15:28:36 stskeeps: and we can't really change the logs and other infrastructure until we move the servers to OSU-OSL Jul 06 15:28:40 :nod: Jul 06 15:28:50 speaking of: what is going on there? Jul 06 15:28:51 yeah, we have to have scrum calls on there as it includes internal work too Jul 06 15:29:06 lbt: so, based on what you are using it for, meego-dev might not be the right name for it? Jul 06 15:29:20 honestly, I'm starting to think that I could grow old and die before hardware gets set up Jul 06 15:29:26 no, I wanted #meego-infra iirc Jul 06 15:29:34 AWESOME!!!! n900 skins http://www.istyles.com/nokia-nokia-n900-c-292_567_700.html Jul 06 15:29:41 w00t_: yeah.... Jul 06 15:29:45 tell me about it Jul 06 15:30:32 w00t_ yeah, I know Jul 06 15:31:00 is it possible to disable the visual effects in the meego on the netbook? Jul 06 15:31:02 w00t_: the US have those really complex mains plugs.... very hard to use... Jul 06 15:31:24 the problem is that most of the stuff is hosted right now on Intel servers and we are only allowed to give Intel employees access to them Jul 06 15:31:27 brumla: short of replacing the UI, I doubt it - though I haven't actually tried. :) Jul 06 15:31:34 so it's more about getting things off the other servers Jul 06 15:31:57 when we get them to OSU-OSL we'll be able to get more people helping Jul 06 15:32:02 okay Jul 06 15:32:05 DawnFoster: just for good measure, when i argue things it's because i care about making the project great. no matter what, at the end of the day, i think you're doing an immensely cool and good job at herding the community, even when we can be rather loud at times :) and thank you for doing that at times unthankful work. Jul 06 15:32:09 LF foundation employee copies to floppy, hands floppy to Intel employee Jul 06 15:32:13 and what is going on with getting hardware to OSUOSL? Jul 06 15:32:17 w00t_: i don't want to replace it, for me is enough to disable the zoom effects when witching between apps Jul 06 15:32:42 Stskeeps: I appreciate it. Everything you've said has been really constructive and helpful, so I appreciate it Jul 06 15:33:08 Stskeeps: shall you and I nut heads later on and try get some information set up on the wiki? Jul 06 15:33:10 Stskeeps: I think I've even changed my mind about combining things :) Jul 06 15:33:31 which reminds me i need to ask where the registration/conference paper submission went.. Jul 06 15:33:34 tripzero: OBS public-ness depends on release of OBS 2.1 ... and then, AFAIUI it will be read only Jul 06 15:33:39 "Neo-banning. Banning you before you've even spammed!" Jul 06 15:33:45 tripzero: the community OBS is another matter :) Jul 06 15:33:46 hehehe Jul 06 15:33:58 I think maybe we should focus on having a small number of appropriately named channels with better descriptions of how they're being used in the topics Jul 06 15:34:03 I hope the forum owner doesn't get annoyed at me for that Jul 06 15:34:09 tripzero: and guess what .... I'm waiting for HW at OSU Jul 06 15:34:41 stskeeps: I think we're just waiting to finish the proposal / registration system & then we'll open it up for people to submit Jul 06 15:35:09 :nod: Jul 06 15:35:19 ah, july 15h Jul 06 15:35:21 th Jul 06 15:35:23 forgot it was in the CFP Jul 06 15:35:46 We contracted with a company to build the proposal system, and they're making good progress - not sure if we'll make the 15th, tho Jul 06 15:35:59 no later than Aug 1 for sure, earlier if we can Jul 06 15:36:11 DawnFoster, what did the proposal company use to make proposals? Jul 06 15:36:42 lcuk: ha ha Jul 06 15:36:53 * lbt notes almost zero discussion on things like OSU hosting happening on irc Jul 06 15:36:56 and was this proposal tender open to all Jul 06 15:37:03 or mailing lists Jul 06 15:37:05 lbt: #osuosl? ;) Jul 06 15:37:13 maybe they happened in the bugzilla Jul 06 15:37:21 heh Jul 06 15:37:35 mm, hoping for 15th, 23 days for opening to closing sounds very little Jul 06 15:37:56 but then again it will be a busy time with reviewing things anyway :) Jul 06 15:37:57 lcuk: we went with a company that has a drupal app for conference registration / proposals. They just need to make some tweaks to it to get it working with our single sign on, etc. Jul 06 15:38:00 * lcuk has a proposal to make for that date too Jul 06 15:38:19 err mines 16th i think Jul 06 15:38:31 cool DawnFoster Jul 06 15:38:38 i wonder if i have anything cool to talk about, heh Jul 06 15:38:49 Stskeeps: N810? Jul 06 15:38:55 ah, true Jul 06 15:39:08 last year at maemo summit it was mer, but if i have anything remotely interesting to talk about that wouldn't be covered by a talk by harri :) Jul 06 15:39:29 * lbt recalls "Faith No More" track.... Jul 06 15:42:06 * CosmoHill pokes meegodotby Jul 06 15:50:42 DawnFoster, since the IVI instance is on meego now and includes alternative desktop XFCE does that mean that XFCE can be used as desktop for any meego instance (ie for users who want a low power desktop WM on their netbook) ? Jul 06 15:51:10 or is that a specific addition only to be available on the IVI Jul 06 15:54:24 lcuk: pretty sure it's available everywhere.. handset used it for a while I think Jul 06 15:54:49 handset has only existed for a week! Jul 06 15:54:59 no, the handset UX has only existed for a week Jul 06 15:55:07 handset images with an xterm have been available since march Jul 06 15:55:16 xfce4, you mean Jul 06 15:55:16 :P Jul 06 15:56:08 Stskeeps: maybe lcuk likes the first version Jul 06 15:56:50 * lcuk is just reading the mailing list Jul 06 16:15:39 n900 Jul 06 16:33:47 wow, oreilly's survey was udpated Jul 06 16:34:24 s/udpupd/ Jul 06 16:34:31 * timeless cries Jul 06 16:49:07 wow Jul 06 16:49:12 * timeless got decent service again Jul 06 16:49:18 :) Jul 06 16:49:41 these American companies are ruining it for the rest of the world Jul 06 16:49:48 setting unreasonable expectations of service and stuff Jul 06 17:06:04 Hi, anyone know how applications can be added to the "MyZone" view in Meego netbook panels? Jul 06 17:49:10 sriram: http://help.meego.com/netbook/applications/mark-application-favorite Jul 06 17:49:47 I have a question for application developers. Jul 06 17:50:59 what would you think of a website for application developers with this navigation: Explore, experience, build, share, download? Jul 06 17:51:25 honest feedback is appreciated. I can give you my feedback after I get some other opinions :) Jul 06 17:51:39 Hello, so is meego currently using qt or clutter for its interface? Jul 06 17:53:13 DawnFoster: initial impression is order is wrong - application developers want to learn, build, test, share, users want to explore, experience, download and perhaps as power users test Jul 06 17:53:44 Stskeeps: I agree. Unless "Explore" is explore the APIs and tools available Jul 06 17:54:19 the site is not for users, just app developers, like http://developer.android.com for example Jul 06 17:54:22 :nod: Jul 06 17:54:36 eags: the meego netbook UX is using Clutter and as far as I know everything else is using Qt Jul 06 17:54:46 i'm thinking two sides of the process - left hand is for developers, right hand is for users, together they create a quality product over time, with the cheesy meego figures in the middle ;) Jul 06 17:54:47 what is IVI using? Jul 06 17:55:05 would you expect an application developer site to have navigation like learn, build, test, share or something else? Jul 06 17:55:44 what you expect to see on developers.meego.com, for example? Jul 06 17:56:26 and I didn't come up with it, so you can't hurt my feelings :) Jul 06 17:58:37 maemo bug filed https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10882 : libmeegotouch-dev has missing dependencies. blocker to building the meego applications on maemo Jul 06 17:58:38 Bug 10882: libmeegotouch-dev has missing dependencies Jul 06 17:58:46 bug 1234 Jul 06 17:59:41 DawnFoster, tough question Jul 06 17:59:59 DawnFoster: "learn, feel, share" is a bunch of marketing crap imho Jul 06 18:00:20 i want to see actual documentation, don't care what the site looks like Jul 06 18:00:25 does meegotouch work on the netbook UX? Jul 06 18:00:30 do people agree with ali1234? Jul 06 18:00:46 DawnFoster: people rarely agree with me :) Jul 06 18:00:55 I'm looking for brutally honest feedback Jul 06 18:01:12 ali1234, content is always more important than layout - though with good layout the content becomes pleasurable Jul 06 18:01:52 i want to see "how to set up the SDK", "how to use OBS", "best practices for creating cross platform symbian/meego development", "how to port an existing app to meego" Jul 06 18:02:03 cosmohill, stskeeps, w00t - other thoughts? Jul 06 18:02:10 i'm mostly on same page as ali1234 Jul 06 18:02:23 why wasn't I told I was meant to be paying attention Jul 06 18:02:42 ready at hand information on typical 'top' topics of developer problems Jul 06 18:03:00 i agree with ali1234, Jul 06 18:03:06 ali1234: sounds good Jul 06 18:03:09 lcuk, meegotouch should work on the netbook ux Jul 06 18:03:21 but whilst you might not care what the site looks like it is helpful if you can navigate it Jul 06 18:03:25 i dont' think it's in the netbook repo though... i'll have to check when i get home Jul 06 18:03:42 from A to Z, basically, top is for the basic developer, then you delve into topics.. Jul 06 18:03:43 trip0, thats a bit odd then Jul 06 18:03:53 why? Jul 06 18:03:54 if its NOT there, it means people cannot take app developed for handheld Jul 06 18:03:57 and use it on netbook Jul 06 18:04:03 bpeel, what is the toolkit being used on top of clutter for that? I definitely echo what some people are saying about how it is hard to get a good picture of the apis and technologies available Jul 06 18:04:25 my current position would be newbie i think Jul 06 18:04:29 lcuk, use handheld apps on netbook? Jul 06 18:04:34 trip0, for "meego" to be umbrella spec thts a bit odd Jul 06 18:04:37 yes Jul 06 18:04:38 hwy not Jul 06 18:04:39 and a very central and good search Jul 06 18:04:40 :P Jul 06 18:04:47 its hard to squash a bit app down into handheld Jul 06 18:04:51 eags: mx is used on the netbook Jul 06 18:04:55 but nothing says i cant run many smaller apps on a big screen Jul 06 18:05:07 you know what is the most useful page on all of maemo.org? http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba Jul 06 18:05:09 true... although, it wouldn't quite feel right Jul 06 18:05:15 unless your netbook had a touchscreen Jul 06 18:05:18 there is more useful content on that page than the whole of the rest of the site put together Jul 06 18:05:30 trip0,its entirely feasible both with and without Jul 06 18:05:53 w00t_, facebrick is developed in qt and works on n900 and desktop doesnt it Jul 06 18:06:15 lcuk, feasible, yes, but it would get annoying to me to use a netbook without a touchscreen with touchscreen apps Jul 06 18:06:30 trip0, of course not every app is suited Jul 06 18:06:49 for one, meegotoucch apps done use keyboard shortcuts Jul 06 18:07:06 and secondly, mtf apps dont respond to the scroll wheel at all Jul 06 18:07:08 what about someone making neverball work on handheld Jul 06 18:07:20 trip0, those arent blockers, they are niggles Jul 06 18:07:21