**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jul 09 02:59:57 2010 Jul 09 05:00:50 is there going to be a meego-netbook-chromium-ia32-1.0.1-xxxxxx img released anytime soon, or at all? Jul 09 05:01:27 uh. Jul 09 05:01:48 i'm running the meego image with chromium on my ia32 based atom netbook Jul 09 05:01:54 ... Jul 09 05:02:43 sorry, let me rephrase that Jul 09 05:02:50 is there going to be a netbook v1.0.1 img released anytime soon, or at all? Jul 09 05:03:18 as opposed to the current v1.0 img available from the netbook download page Jul 09 05:03:25 the next release will be 1.1 Jul 09 05:03:28 in October Jul 09 05:03:33 6 month release schedule Jul 09 05:03:55 with regular software updates done via the system update tool Jul 09 05:04:06 of which there have already been quite a few if you've set your system to the test repository. Jul 09 05:04:24 thanks Jul 09 05:04:38 you could always build it yourself Jul 09 05:04:42 barring that Jul 09 05:04:46 *shrug* Jul 09 05:04:49 ;) Jul 09 05:05:02 is there a simple way how to do that? Jul 09 05:05:07 wuss. Jul 09 05:05:17 i know :-) Jul 09 05:05:17 ;) Jul 09 05:05:29 if you want it yesterday Jul 09 05:05:31 you have to do the leg work Jul 09 05:05:46 how bad do you want it? Jul 09 05:06:00 but seriously, just get the current release, and update Jul 09 05:06:08 with ubuntu you can always download a daily iso, with the latest updates/patches of that day Jul 09 05:06:20 i dont have it installed Jul 09 05:06:24 there are daily repositories Jul 09 05:06:26 if you know where to look Jul 09 05:06:30 i'm running from the live image Jul 09 05:06:51 and in order to complete the updates it needs to reboot Jul 09 05:06:56 yup Jul 09 05:07:09 probably a kernel update Jul 09 05:07:50 so thats why id like a live img with the updates prebuilt-in Jul 09 05:09:02 want2tryL8stMeeG: http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation Jul 09 05:09:05 ok, i see this folder http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.0/netbook/images/meego-netbook-chromium-ia32/ Jul 09 05:09:23 and this one: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/updates/1.0/netbook/repos/ia32/ Jul 09 05:10:09 TSCHAKeee: thanks for that link Jul 09 05:10:12 and Jul 09 05:10:15 honestly Jul 09 05:10:17 you might as well just install Jul 09 05:10:22 you're making this way too hard on yourself Jul 09 05:10:26 * want2tryL8stMeeG puts on his reading glasses Jul 09 05:10:34 and this is as far as i'm gonna help you. Jul 09 05:10:43 i dont even have a netbook Jul 09 05:10:56 i am running it on my desktop machine Jul 09 05:11:09 ugh Jul 09 05:11:18 sorry ;-) Jul 09 05:21:17 when you do a MeeGo installation, does it ask you which, partition you want to install it to? Jul 09 05:21:29 and can you set it up to dual boot? Jul 09 06:51:37 i have a question. has mer dev work on the n8x0 been abandoned and if so does that mean that dev for meego on the n8x0 will continue where mer left off? Jul 09 07:17:53 hi all Jul 09 07:18:11 I am running meego_qemu_nand.img under qemu, but there is only a bash shell Jul 09 07:18:20 how can I start graphical desktop or something similar? Jul 09 07:18:59 is that an core image? Jul 09 07:19:10 dm8tbr: I am not sure Jul 09 07:19:15 it's probably codedrop Jul 09 07:19:23 I got the instructions from http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_on_Qemu Jul 09 07:19:37 well you need one with the HX built in :) Jul 09 07:19:44 dm8tbr: which one is that? :) Jul 09 07:20:05 cartman: i would wait until one is made personally :) Jul 09 07:20:11 oh Jul 09 07:20:16 so there is only a console atm? :) Jul 09 07:20:35 cartman: xterm actually :p Jul 09 07:20:35 for the qemu target yes, on n900 we have full desktop Jul 09 07:20:44 copyleft: true Jul 09 07:20:57 Stskeeps: I see a there is flashable image for N900, ok Jul 09 07:21:18 there's a .ks for you to generate a n900 image with. Jul 09 07:21:28 Stskeeps: is there a howto on that? Jul 09 07:21:48 Stskeeps: someone bisected the patch I have for SGX for me and the offending change was 24->32bit something. I'll rebuild that kernel and try again if Xserver starts :) Jul 09 07:22:08 cartman: yes, but it won't run on qemu that easily :) Jul 09 07:22:22 Stskeeps: I am no stranger to command line, if there is a way somehow :) Jul 09 07:22:32 http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Releases/Daily Jul 09 07:22:42 why not use an aava image and run it in an virtual foo? Jul 09 07:23:35 thanks Stskeeps Jul 09 07:23:41 dm8tbr: what is aava exactly? Jul 09 07:24:05 <_Pete_> cartman: http://www.aavamobile.com/ Jul 09 07:24:17 cartman: the prototype noone has officially seen Jul 09 07:24:25 x86 Jul 09 07:24:25 looks like a hot device Jul 09 07:24:46 <_Pete_> If I turn my head a bit to left I officially see one :) Jul 09 07:24:50 <_Pete_> oops right Jul 09 07:25:22 _Pete_: x86 on mobile phone is overkill, no? Jul 09 07:25:25 battery wise Jul 09 07:25:44 _Pete_: yeah, but you also signed a heap of nda's to let noone see it who didn't sign them either Jul 09 07:26:24 cartman: intel is making huge progress in that filed, you'd be surprised Jul 09 07:26:35 dm8tbr: I like to be surprised Jul 09 07:26:42 and I like x86 compilers ;) Jul 09 07:27:02 IMO the ARM world is in for some tough times Jul 09 07:27:20 cartman: exactly because of people that think like you :) Jul 09 07:27:49 we are doing tablet based application Jul 09 07:27:50 +s Jul 09 07:27:55 our only problem is battery life Jul 09 07:35:24 I installed osc command (0.125.5) on both Debian Sid and MeeGo 1.0 SDK chroot. But when running osc build , MeeGo 1.0 SDK fails to retrieve rpm packages for the base toolchains. But On debian it's ok to build. Jul 09 07:41:51 Looks like the MeeGo SDK fails to get packages from the local OBS API. http://localip:81/build/MeeGo:1.0:Core/standard/i586/_repository/rpm Jul 09 07:45:13 hi Jul 09 07:45:35 there is still no workaround for running meego on nvidia hardware ? Jul 09 08:18:30 morning all Jul 09 08:19:27 morn slaine Jul 09 08:29:30 _Pete_: are you able to build stuff for the device you offically see? Jul 09 08:29:39 hi slaine Jul 09 08:31:12 <_Pete_> gpethig: yes Jul 09 08:34:30 _Pete_: through an OBS? or other? Jul 09 08:38:08 hi all Jul 09 08:38:57 <_Pete_> gpethig: meego-sdk & qtcreator that I have tried so far Jul 09 08:44:56 _Pete_: thanks, build in meego-sdk is the direction I am going, at this time, in attempting to build some libs for the device. Jul 09 08:46:02 meego contains ggc, but does not contain make, why? Jul 09 08:46:30 who uses make nowadays? Jul 09 08:46:53 meegodotby: looks pretty similar to make to me: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/daily/core/repos/ia32/packages/i586/make-3.81-21.7.i586.rpm Jul 09 08:47:06 VirtualBox add Jul 09 08:47:23 is there an easier way to reboot meego than through the terminal? Jul 09 08:48:17 wall switch? Jul 09 08:50:09 Creap : cad Jul 09 08:52:13 ok Jul 09 08:54:08 Aard : thanks Jul 09 08:54:13 another problem I have that I can't find anything about in the help is that some applications are too high for my netbook screen, so I don't see for instance action buttons in the bottom Jul 09 08:54:37 and I can't move windows up Jul 09 08:54:38 meegodotby: you might consider looking into learning how to use "yum" Jul 09 08:54:42 above the screen edge Jul 09 08:55:08 can I make the titlebar smaller somehow? Jul 09 08:56:13 or even better remove it Jul 09 08:56:42 Aard : I have already looked - /etc/yum.repos.d/* )))))) Jul 09 08:59:07 Aard : Everything is all right ) Jul 09 08:59:47 meegodotby: I doubt it. if it were you'd have used yum to a) find out that a make package exists and b) installed it Jul 09 09:06:34 Aard : make is updated Jul 09 09:06:34 yum work from a box, it is fine Jul 09 09:09:15 i wish to start meego in virtualbox and I have problems with Xorg (( Jul 09 09:21:25 If i have a question about the MeeGo touch framework can I ask it here or there is a specialized channel Jul 09 09:21:41 pretty much new around so wanted to check rather than ruffle some feathers on a friday ;) Jul 09 09:23:38 How are is the MeeGo touch framework organized, is there some diagram/document which descripes how the different repositories listed at : http://meego.gitorious.org/meegotouch Jul 09 09:23:43 work together and interact Jul 09 09:28:37 X-Fade: so kpartx... Jul 09 09:29:42 lbt: Yes? :) Jul 09 09:30:01 only mentioned in boot.multipath Jul 09 09:30:12 and doesn't do what we need Jul 09 09:30:40 who setup /dev/dm23? Jul 09 09:32:06 No mention of it in /etc ;) Jul 09 09:32:25 it's the 2nd filer Jul 09 09:33:15 I don't know how the system knows about them :) Jul 09 09:34:00 lbt: No kernel param at least. Jul 09 09:35:30 hmm /dev/disk/by-id/ Jul 09 09:36:06 Ah there it is. Jul 09 09:36:25 So devicemapper iterates them? Jul 09 09:37:00 yes... Jul 09 09:37:09 and scsi-360060e8005478600000047860000398c -> ../../dm-22 Jul 09 09:37:16 but scsi-360060e8005478600000047860000398c-part1 -> ../../dm-23 Jul 09 09:37:34 and then I ran kpartx on dm-23 iirc Jul 09 09:37:34 Yeah, so the filer shows up as scsi disks. Jul 09 09:37:42 so I partitioned a partition... Jul 09 09:37:46 oops Jul 09 09:38:06 I wonder why that worked :) Jul 09 09:38:42 kpartx will partition any block device AIUI Jul 09 09:38:57 but that doesn't make it a good idea :) Jul 09 09:39:02 hehe Jul 09 09:39:46 I'm thinking of blatting the OBS VG Jul 09 09:39:54 then removing the kpartx partitions Jul 09 09:39:59 and the dm-23 partition Jul 09 09:40:13 and then making 4 clean 50GB on dm-22 Jul 09 09:40:17 We have enough space to backup in backup storage. Jul 09 09:40:21 *backend Jul 09 09:40:26 yes... Jul 09 09:40:29 and... Jul 09 09:40:37 we only need to backup the cache I think Jul 09 09:40:52 http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenSuse_Build_Service/Installation#Revise_VG_setup Jul 09 09:42:10 btw, will this be supported in obs >=2 ? Jul 09 09:42:22 mmm :) Jul 09 09:42:33 yes Jul 09 09:42:48 I'm wondering about going to 1.8 ASAP Jul 09 09:42:54 and then to 2.1 ASAP too Jul 09 09:43:09 maybe go to 2.1 as we move to OSU Jul 09 09:43:46 Yeah, it would be good to go to 2.1 on the OSU hardware. Jul 09 09:44:04 backing up cache Jul 09 09:44:38 stopping worker Jul 09 09:48:30 very very odd... Jul 09 09:49:01 had to lvremove multiple times... Jul 09 09:49:20 it was like the swap partitions were still 'mounted' on the worker roots... Jul 09 09:49:37 lbt: 1.8 would be good for the new cross-features, but 2.1 is in sight. Jul 09 09:49:50 Maybe stopping workers doesn't unmount swap? Jul 09 09:49:59 dl9pf: yes... and OSU is still a little way away I guess Jul 09 09:50:30 dl9pf: I want to match MeeGo OBS version 100% Jul 09 09:50:31 Reminds me, I need to ping Mike about that. Jul 09 09:50:42 ok, meego is still 1.7.x Jul 09 09:51:16 dl9pf: yes... "plus some patches" :) Jul 09 09:51:45 Although for arm we would really benefit from some cross power ;) Jul 09 09:52:26 its already in 1.7.x - 1.8 and 2.1 provide the new cross- prjconf directive, which will make it more flexible. Jul 09 09:53:22 Need to figure out how we can accelerate for Qt. qmake and moc mostly. Jul 09 09:54:09 for maemo? Jul 09 09:54:15 X-Fade: if they're built during the compilation itself its hard. if they're preinstalled its possible. Jul 09 09:54:36 fake-scratchbox them :) Jul 09 09:54:38 dl9pf: Well they need to match their library versions. Jul 09 09:55:05 lbt: hehe, nice thought. Jul 09 09:55:16 But for MeeGo we would need to do something too. Jul 09 09:55:34 ah, meego does it differently I think Jul 09 09:55:36 Running those in qemu is not fun. Jul 09 09:56:41 if we can isolate them - e.g. currently like bash, rpm, m4 and so on, we can replace them and speed-up. Jul 09 09:56:55 including runtime dependencies Jul 09 09:57:28 device-mapper: remove ioctl failed: Device or resource busy Jul 09 09:57:30 :( Jul 09 09:57:49 lbt: hello ;) Jul 09 09:57:59 o/ Jul 09 09:58:21 X-Fade: could you write down a list of what would need a speedup (like qmake + moc + ?? ) and create a enhancement bug (infra/build-service) and assign it to me ? Jul 09 09:59:00 dear admins, what "blocked" status means ? Jul 09 09:59:13 "in queue" Jul 09 09:59:34 thks, /me wait then :) Jul 09 09:59:37 dl9pf: Sure, will try to find out which ones are most needed for Qt application compilation. Jul 09 09:59:49 blocked = coffee-time Jul 09 09:59:55 lbt: Have you tried "osc build" on MeeGo 1.0 SDK? Or what do you suggest a distribution for a MeeGo package maintainer? Jul 09 10:00:21 lbt: it's blocked since > 4h ;) Jul 09 10:00:45 X-Fade: just take the biggest hogs. we can then sort out which we can isolate/speedup/substitute/whatever. Jul 09 10:00:50 fabo: look at the "monitor" page Jul 09 10:01:29 copyleft: do you mean the meego.com OBS ? Jul 09 10:01:39 dl9pf: In Maemo, they made those run on i386 because otherwise compilation took ages. So I guess those are it, but will investigate. Jul 09 10:02:04 lbt: ok, it waits for other package to build Jul 09 10:02:26 X-Fade: yes, these will be a good start. Jul 09 10:02:27 lbt: I use osc to connect to our local OBS (on another machine) Jul 09 10:02:56 dl9pf: rcc + uic proably too. Jul 09 10:02:57 OK - so osc works on most distros Jul 09 10:03:45 lbt: but not on MeeGo 1.0 SDK. lol :p still debugging... Jul 09 10:03:57 ah... Jul 09 10:05:11 is java supported on meego platform ? Jul 09 10:06:25 lbt: When run osc build, it download rpms to create a base chroot first right? But it fails to get any packages from my obs api. Jul 09 10:07:34 sounds like your local OBS isn't setup quite right? Jul 09 10:07:44 can anything else connect to it? Jul 09 10:07:50 copyleft: Can you browse your repo? Jul 09 10:08:41 vlj: afaics, no Jul 09 10:09:07 not in core at least Jul 09 10:09:07 ok Jul 09 10:10:11 X-Fade: dm is looking pretty screwed up Jul 09 10:10:14 and there is still no way to run meego with an nvidia card ? Jul 09 10:10:22 we have : dm-name-OBS-worker_swap2 -> ../../dm-31 Jul 09 10:10:32 lbt: hmm Jul 09 10:10:37 and no OBS VG and no worker_swap2 LV .... Jul 09 10:10:48 ll /dev/disk/by-id/ Jul 09 10:10:55 lbt: Is that lingering one or a new one? Jul 09 10:10:59 I've done pv/lv/vgscan Jul 09 10:11:05 lingering Jul 09 10:11:08 osc command tries three pathes, 1. /var/tmp/osbuild-packagecache/ 2. my local repository on http://192.168.19.156:82/MeeGo:1.0:Core/standard/i586/ (where it's nothing), 3. obs api on http://192.168.19.156:81/build/MeeGo:1.0:Core/standard/i586/_repository/ (which I can access by browser and wget) Jul 09 10:11:20 kpartx -d /dev/dm-23 Jul 09 10:11:21 device-mapper: remove ioctl failed: Device or resource busy Jul 09 10:11:33 vlj: on meego-dev ml, someone claimed a working setup. but no official support. Jul 09 10:11:38 lbt: Yeah, so shutting down workers didn't unmount swap. Jul 09 10:12:02 lbt: And also not proc, but that is no issue here. Jul 09 10:12:06 On Debian it seems successfully get packaes from the OBS API, but on MeeGo 1.0 SDK, it's not. Jul 09 10:12:09 fabo : is it plan somewhere in the future ? Jul 09 10:12:23 even the sdk does not work :/ Jul 09 10:12:49 vlj: I doubt of any official support.It will be probably pushed by the community Jul 09 10:12:57 X-Fade: I'm kinda tempted to reboot it and fix it when it comes back... then a few more reboot cycles Jul 09 10:13:09 ok Jul 09 10:13:11 how does "init 6" sound? Jul 09 10:13:29 lbt: I see no other way to unmount those partitions now ;) Jul 09 10:13:42 do the ISP need notifying? Jul 09 10:13:59 lbt: If we do a quick reboot, nah ;) Jul 09 10:14:14 If it doesn't come back, then yes ;) Jul 09 10:14:36 heh... Jul 09 10:14:40 here goes then... Jul 09 10:15:00 I hope it doesn't hang on unmount after we have been kicked out though.. Jul 09 10:15:10 now you say something.... Jul 09 10:15:22 shouldn't nothing was mounted Jul 09 10:15:32 lbt: Yes I can connect and build it on Debian :) (sorry about mess up the discussion.) Jul 09 10:15:41 it's saving off the xen fe/be Jul 09 10:17:38 lbt: which package do you want in Debian ? Jul 09 10:18:32 things around MeeGo Jul 09 10:18:52 in this case some ruby and python libraries that I'm working on for BOSS Jul 09 10:19:14 it may also include things like osc extensions Jul 09 10:19:17 mic2 Jul 09 10:19:28 lbt: i have uploaded mic2 Jul 09 10:19:57 btw, it migrated to testing yesterday btw Jul 09 10:20:03 https://build.opensuse.org/project/show?project=Maemo%3AMeeGo-Infra Jul 09 10:20:04 -btw Jul 09 10:20:06 :) Jul 09 10:20:20 X-Fade: it's back :) Jul 09 10:20:42 lbt: luck you :) Jul 09 10:20:48 +y Jul 09 10:21:27 fabo: I thought it would make sense for MeeGo to have somewhere to 'stage' tools Jul 09 10:21:50 I wasn't actually planning on pushing them to Debian etc yet (ours aren't really ready) Jul 09 10:22:01 lbt: I can offer you a deal, you take maintainership and I sponsor ;) Jul 09 10:22:23 * lbt considers... Jul 09 10:22:34 throw in some "mentor" and you have a deal :) Jul 09 10:22:54 sure, it's in the package :D Jul 09 10:24:21 X-Fade: Yes, but the local repository (http) has only the rpms build from my OBS. Jul 09 10:26:30 X-Fade: networking is broken Jul 09 10:26:53 you do that... I'll do the OBS VG ? Jul 09 10:27:02 the vms are up though Jul 09 10:27:46 lbt: better now? Jul 09 10:27:47 X-Fade: So it download packages through the local OBS API, since MeeGo:1.0 prjconf is ready. Jul 09 10:28:10 no Jul 09 10:28:52 lbt: obs0 and xenbr0 ? Jul 09 10:29:10 yep... prolly Jul 09 10:29:33 rm /etc/sysconfig/network/obs0 ? Jul 09 10:29:52 :) Jul 09 10:30:17 ifconfig obs0 down doesn't fix it though. Jul 09 10:30:46 I did a :) because it works now... Jul 09 10:30:51 for ssh Jul 09 10:31:20 http is kinda there... Message: execution expired Jul 09 10:31:46 Ah that is api not working probably. Jul 09 10:32:16 Hmm now it works. Jul 09 10:32:26 damned dm-X have changed again... Jul 09 10:32:48 lbt: better use the device ids? Jul 09 10:33:36 dm-name-360060e8005478600000047860000398c_part1 ? Jul 09 10:34:32 I think that is more stable? Jul 09 10:34:49 As dm just starts counting at 0 on boot? Jul 09 11:08:18 hi, are apps from meego for netbooks will run on smartphone meego? Jul 09 11:08:42 no Jul 09 11:08:54 (excepts if it's morrestown powered) Jul 09 11:09:01 (moorestown*) Jul 09 11:09:28 so where i can find smartphone meego sdk? Jul 09 11:09:54 there is no one atm Jul 09 11:09:57 but err Jul 09 11:10:00 I meant Jul 09 11:10:17 binaries app from meego for netbook wont run on smartphone Jul 09 11:10:33 but if you compile it, it should works Jul 09 11:10:39 recompile* Jul 09 11:10:57 but form factor may lead to some disparities Jul 09 11:19:39 X-Fade: another reboot? Jul 09 11:20:03 I see you had a lot of fun creating partitions ;) Jul 09 11:20:23 yeah Jul 09 11:20:27 * timeless_mbp chuckles Jul 09 11:20:30 http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenSuse_Build_Service/Installation#Revise_VG_setup now Jul 09 11:21:23 Ok, go for it. Jul 09 11:21:23 hmmm is there a DNS problem on the be ? Jul 09 11:21:41 be has no outside access. Jul 09 11:22:01 Only fe has that. Jul 09 11:22:03 it could be failing a reverse dns ... takes ages to start emacs Jul 09 11:22:19 No, no dns is it. Jul 09 11:22:35 err Jul 09 11:22:43 is there a way to rebuild meego kernel ? Jul 09 11:22:51 I mean, to install a new one Jul 09 11:24:04 lbt: Want me to give be access for now? Jul 09 11:24:16 mmm Jul 09 11:24:24 only for outgoing connections Jul 09 11:24:34 zypper up etc Jul 09 11:25:07 Ok, that is something that needs a bit more configuration then ;) Jul 09 11:26:00 reboot first? Jul 09 11:26:30 Can you try if you have access now? Jul 09 11:27:26 shall I restore 8.8.8.8 to resolv.conf? Jul 09 11:28:01 Sure Jul 09 11:28:18 yep.. that's OK Jul 09 11:28:40 OK ... say when Jul 09 11:28:49 when Jul 09 11:38:29 the worker didn't start and be hasn't got access Jul 09 11:38:34 lvm is good Jul 09 11:39:00 Didn't add the be routing to the script yet. Jul 09 11:40:56 * timeless_mbp smites lbt's url Jul 09 11:42:00 timeless_mbp: What's wrong with it? Jul 09 11:42:14 see changelog :) Jul 09 11:42:33 someone was a creative speller Jul 09 11:42:35 deamons ... Jul 09 11:42:46 Hehe Jul 09 11:44:06 should be "a daemon" .... want a job doing right you have to do it yourself.... Jul 09 11:50:57 lbt: Check his extensive spelling changes ;) Jul 09 11:52:06 lbt: my actions exactly :) Jul 09 11:52:59 btw, could someone please fix the category and article? Jul 09 11:53:27 openSUSE should be written as such, and not any other way (which unfortunately the article and category seem to practice) Jul 09 11:53:34 * timeless_mbp eyes X-Fade Jul 09 11:53:56 is it possible to change the default browser in meego to something else than chromium/chrome? Jul 09 11:54:24 timeless_mbp: I'll give others an opportunity to contribute ;) Jul 09 11:54:25 or is it too integrated Jul 09 11:54:31 lol Jul 09 12:09:44 Hello agin Jul 09 12:10:13 Sorry i had brutal dissconnect Jul 09 12:10:56 So, where i can find smartphone meego sdk? Jul 09 12:12:11 and to make app i must use smartphone meego sdk or intel app up sdk? Jul 09 12:19:01 MasterMatan: for making handset apps, check out http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Nokia_Qt_SDK_v1.0_Beta Jul 09 12:22:49 Ok, thx Jul 09 12:27:18 and if you use Qt as much as possible, then it should be rather easy to build your app for Maemo and Symbian as well ... Jul 09 12:37:56 The "OMG, we've done so much for you how can you not appreciate it?!" line in the openess thread on -dev is interesting. Jul 09 13:05:14 do I have to recompile the kernel to get nfs support in meego? Jul 09 13:13:25 lbt: Somehow this doesn't sound right: now finalizing build dir... mount: Bad address Jul 09 13:51:02 is anyone wants me I'll be in /dev/tty1 Jul 09 14:00:10 So, is there only echange N900 can sync to?! Or what? Jul 09 14:05:03 EXPLETIVE!!!! Jul 09 14:05:19 slaine: what do you think? http://pastebin.cross-lfs.org/6943 Jul 09 14:11:56 Je viens d avoir une revelation... Jul 09 14:13:36 Bon. Jul 09 15:03:38 hello Jul 09 15:03:46 i have linux/win7 dual boot Jul 09 15:04:01 if i install meego, will the booloader detect other OS'es? Jul 09 15:04:32 I very much doubt it Jul 09 15:04:49 but then i've not been able to install meego Jul 09 15:05:00 oh :/ Jul 09 15:05:27 http://software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2010/06/10/triple-boot-win7ubuntumeego-netbook-build-for-application-development-for-appup/ Jul 09 15:06:37 ooo Jul 09 16:06:23 josemoreira: Depending on which Linux distribution you use and what Grub version it has, you can easily add Meego to the "menu list", just after you install it. Jul 09 16:09:25 If it works, do actually know, but you may try (I'm considering giving it a shot in a few minutes) Jul 09 16:09:32 hey DawnFoster Jul 09 16:09:33 *don't actually know Jul 09 16:09:44 Hey CosmoHill Jul 09 16:09:53 I wrote a boot script for fail2ban :) Jul 09 16:12:16 now when someone spends THREE HOURS brute forcing my server it should actually do something Jul 09 16:13:30 simulacrum, i use Mint wich is ubuntu based Jul 09 16:14:08 i just fear it will overwrite current grub Jul 09 16:21:10 man irtaniam kasi nist Jul 09 16:21:23 man kos mikham Jul 09 16:22:05 sexe Jul 09 16:22:20 *yawn* Jul 09 16:24:30 Myrtti: you from aniverse? Jul 09 16:25:14 nope Jul 09 16:26:16 fair enough Jul 09 16:26:20 good thing I asked first Jul 09 16:55:23 hello anyone can help-me Jul 09 16:58:59 Daniel__: I think this will help you -> http://goo.gl/zGJc Jul 09 17:01:04 thanks Jul 09 17:01:52 hahah Jul 09 17:05:15 but... i read the help files, the community is a simple question but i can't find, i using meego and i cant change a keyboard language, my keyboard is portuguese, and the defaut is english, i don't have any problem with that but i can't type @ in the keyboard, is that only my problem Jul 09 17:07:43 ow ow ow Jul 09 17:09:35 <_wolf_> @ is shift-2 on the us keyboard ;) Jul 09 17:11:57 or any mac keyboard Jul 09 17:12:31 yes is same in my but my shift 2 in meego is " Jul 09 17:12:40 that's a UK keyboard Jul 09 17:13:33 how can i change that, i'm noob in linux Jul 09 17:14:03 I've never worked that out :/ Jul 09 17:14:24 have some persons with this problem in meego forum but don't have any solution Jul 09 17:16:16 hmm Jul 09 17:16:26 free 20Mb/s broadband with a 2GB monthly limit Jul 09 17:17:59 so in 102 seconds you can hit your limit? Jul 09 17:20:02 ahh i solve the problem Jul 09 17:20:04 @@@ Jul 09 17:20:07 =D Jul 09 17:20:28 gnome-keyboard-properties Jul 09 17:20:34 in terminal Jul 09 17:21:23 Pacience is the art of it all. Jul 09 17:21:42 T_T Jul 09 17:24:40 Downloading Meego is not *data integrity safe*, why not provide a hash? (md5sum, sha256sum, etc) How do I know if 800 MB downloaded .img file is the same with that on the Meego servers Jul 09 17:24:54 there is a hash Jul 09 17:25:04 replace "img" with "md5" Jul 09 17:25:48 what is meego Jul 09 17:26:00 zman099: /topic Jul 09 17:28:48 CosmoHill: for someone new to .img files and renaming it to .iso or .md5 this is *not obvious* , I think there should be some form of Wiki page helping with this Jul 09 17:29:00 non no Jul 09 17:29:07 you don't rename it to .md5 Jul 09 17:29:10 just the download link Jul 09 17:29:27 yet again obscur Jul 09 17:29:38 that's just me Jul 09 17:30:28 Anyway I'm going to write a Wiki page, just in case. Jul 09 17:30:40 (after I familiarize myself more with this) Jul 09 17:40:51 The magic place was http://goo.gl/F0GO but someone from the Meego team needs to add links at http://goo.gl/9IVZ , making it easier for everybody to verify the integrity of the .img file Jul 09 17:41:47 (and btw the download is really really slow, torrents please?) Jul 09 18:12:34 cyas Jul 09 18:52:20 any news on Community OBS this week ? Jul 09 19:49:54 wow, that thread dealing with meego incompatible with other distros caused a drama shitstorm Jul 09 19:49:58 *shake-head* Jul 09 19:52:39 i think i need to write more to state exactly what i'm trying to discuss as i got perceived differently than expected - much respect to dirk and dawn for their answers, which showed clear and good reasons for corporate email use (which i wasn't contending, fwiw) Jul 09 19:56:12 wb dawn Jul 09 19:57:39 hey stskeeps Jul 09 19:58:37 So if you don't have corporate e-mail your not to be taken seriously? Jul 09 19:58:45 nah, that's not what's being said Jul 09 19:59:17 :-) just started reading the thread from meego-dev Jul 09 19:59:18 the point of using a corporate address is to signify that you have an 'affiliation' of sorts Jul 09 19:59:33 arjan's oneliner was perceived differently by me to what others perceived - his view seemed to be on to show corporate interest, my view was that it seemed like he had to be at a corporate email before even engaging in discussion. Jul 09 19:59:48 right Jul 09 19:59:48 and thanks to dawn and dirk for illustrating that interpretation Jul 09 19:59:51 that is what I saw too Jul 09 20:00:04 so your mail (and replies) was still helpful, Stskeeps Jul 09 20:00:44 I like knowing who people work for :) Jul 09 20:00:55 me too - i get a kick out of seeing @htc.com people on mailing list ;) Jul 09 20:00:59 * w00t_ works for the best company that exists \o/ Jul 09 20:01:10 it took me a while to realize the maemo.org people were nokia contractors, for example ;) Jul 09 20:01:25 think we've worked hard to note that we're independent to some degree Jul 09 20:01:30 .. even though we are contractors Jul 09 20:02:11 liberated community members vs employees and all that Jul 09 20:02:29 an independent corporate whore is still a corporate whore, Stskeeps :-P Jul 09 20:02:50 * Stskeeps is actually hoping to see more of 'liberated community members' in meego, the structure really allows for a flexible setup in that regard Jul 09 20:04:20 in general, Intel usually just hires cool people out of the community, rather than having contractors Jul 09 20:04:29 liberated from whom? Jul 09 20:04:42 ub40 Jul 09 20:04:42 RST38bis: from working for free Jul 09 20:04:43 :P Jul 09 20:04:51 how about contractors out of the community? :D Jul 09 20:04:56 * TSCHAKeee giggles Jul 09 20:04:57 * RST38bis facepalms Jul 09 20:05:06 and having to get another job, with no ability to work on meego Jul 09 20:05:53 DawnFoster: maemo's funny like that too, it started out as a research project, grabbing people from linux communities (gtk, etc), motiviating them to start companies, subcontract, get hired, .. etc Jul 09 20:06:01 Felipe is making some really good points Jul 09 20:06:02 it gives a certain open source environment feeling about the place Jul 09 20:06:55 many people from maemo.org were taken in as well Jul 09 20:08:38 which is one of my arguments why people love meego, as they can go back to their roots of creating a open mobile platform Jul 09 20:08:48 and do it in the open like they used to Jul 09 20:17:26 a technical question for those liking system performance.. let us say we have a rootfs on mmc, swap there too, system uses a lot of swap at times.. how bad would vm.swappiness=100 be felt in terms of user interaction? Jul 09 20:18:08 i think it would definitely be felt. Jul 09 20:20:39 think we've found out why our n900s stall so hard then Jul 09 20:21:25 Well.. Jul 09 20:21:32 At 1 you stall just as hard Jul 09 20:21:40 or harder, but it stalls later Jul 09 20:22:01 found a good value yet? Jul 09 20:22:08 Not really Jul 09 20:22:18 But I know a solution Jul 09 20:22:27 mm? Jul 09 20:23:33 * ShadowJK screams: for the love of god $devicevendors, give us more RAM!! Jul 09 20:23:40 ah Jul 09 20:24:59 Oh also, sometime after 2.6.28 Linux started prioritizing keeping executable code in memory when it's time to throw out stuff ;P Jul 09 20:27:05 Stskeeps, does it stall hard for you the first day or two of uptime? Jul 09 20:27:32 :nod: Jul 09 20:28:16 Because there's another thing that starts happening after a day or two of heavy use (and I'm using myself as benchmark for "heavy use"), which slows things down :-) Jul 09 20:29:00 it only starts stalling for me at the 4th day or so Jul 09 20:29:16 and that was with default swappiness of 100 Jul 09 20:29:27 but we may different use patterns Jul 09 20:29:34 i'm really amazed my n900 is still alive afer all the crap i've put it through Jul 09 20:30:04 took mainline linux at some point and booted, knowing that reports had been made smoke smell had been detected on boot :) Jul 09 20:30:22 no problems, and we could start our work on meego :) Jul 09 20:30:35 In my use, swap starts getting fragmented (and I mean writing to it) after a day or two.. So after that, the actual throughput to swap decreases steadily Jul 09 20:30:43 that was unneeded N900 parts burning off Jul 09 20:31:16 I mean you do not need wifi, cellular, or power management in meego, do you? :) Jul 09 20:31:22 hehe Jul 09 20:31:37 ( 1 >/proc/sys/vm/block-dump, no syslog, awk script groping /proc/kmsg for kswapd and observing the write patterns ) Jul 09 20:31:54 ShadowJk: aha Jul 09 20:33:01 I discovered that it's writing to it mostly sequentially, steadily increasing contigous sectors. Right now with <1day since activating this swap, and having no other swaps, the ratio of sequential to nonsequential writes is about 21:1 Jul 09 20:33:43 Once it reaches the end of the swap area and starts over, it's going to have random sectors already occupied, and be jumping all over the place, I'd assume.. Jul 09 20:33:47 keep it logging for a week Jul 09 20:34:09 ShadowJK: is there a way to adjust how it swaps to the device? maybe using mmc block size or something Jul 09 20:34:37 and it is likely that the card itself hands out blocks randomly from the whole 32gb space Jul 09 20:35:00 so it writes in 256k bits or whatever Jul 09 20:35:17 There is, and it's set to the mmc block size. But, the memory management system operates with 4k pages, so when an app dirties a page that was located on swap previously, it's (I assume) freed in swap Jul 09 20:35:37 RST38bis, yeah but that shuffling would have no performance impact on us Jul 09 20:35:54 why? Jul 09 20:36:19 oh no need to erase... Jul 09 20:36:31 it is erasures that cost us Jul 09 20:37:00 The issue is that writing 4k to a 256k block is as expensive as writing 256k to that block. Whether that 256k block is at the start of the emmc, at the end, or the middle, makes no difference.. Jul 09 20:38:34 ShadowJK: it's the read access to another large block that's expensive Jul 09 20:38:53 Well if you touch any other block in between :-) Jul 09 20:38:59 the write by itself is no real write Jul 09 20:39:38 i must admit that the people doing the intel and meego ads are quite good at making interesting videos Jul 09 20:39:44 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpUvGMGTDuQ&feature=youtu.be Jul 09 20:39:45 ShadowJK: and swap cannot be forced to always work in 256k increments? Jul 09 20:40:50 especially since there's UX references from handset UX in the video transitions Jul 09 20:41:23 Well you know, you're pushing out random pages from all over that look like they haven't been used in a while into a contigous block, and just because one app then suddenly needs 4k out of that 256k doesn't mean that the other 15 apps that each have some small amount of data in that chunk would need their data back Jul 09 20:42:23 So basically what we'd need is a defrag/garbage collection type thing ;) Jul 09 20:42:33 but what if you swap in 256k groups of pages belonging to the same object? Jul 09 20:43:14 So I think what you're basically proposing is increasing the memory page size to 256k Jul 09 20:43:51 * RST38bis sincerely hopes Samsung started producing 512MB OneRAMs Jul 09 20:44:17 ShadowJK: well you cant, in hardware Jul 09 20:44:27 but you can in software Jul 09 20:44:43 yeah.. I don't think it's a sane thing to do though Jul 09 20:44:43 when you are deciding which pages to dump Jul 09 20:48:37 Luckily there are so many possible solutions that it ensures that no solution is taken :) Jul 09 20:49:05 swappiness 30 seems to help a lot Jul 09 20:49:26 causes a few funny but harmless effects Jul 09 20:49:55 gallery scrolls like a charm but it takes time to show thumbnails Jul 09 20:50:13 The idea with 100, I think, is that there's a steady stream of light swap activity, so the system is always on top of things Jul 09 20:50:34 yea Jul 09 20:50:49 With 1, it barely swaps at all until it gets really squeezed for memory, and then it had to work hard and long to get anywhere Jul 09 20:50:57 but it only makes sense when you have reasonably fast mass storage Jul 09 20:51:23 and, of course, no other traffic Jul 09 20:51:38 like... /opt :) Jul 09 20:52:08 and $HOME, I think the database fsync() load really hurts, especially since it's ext3 :) Jul 09 20:53:01 note: swappiness 100 came into effect before they invented /opt Jul 09 20:53:15 gpodder became about 10 times faster when I moved swap and ~/.gpodder to uSD, the remaining load on emmc being opt and MyDocs, to which gpodder was saving stuff at 600kB/s Jul 09 20:53:46 and uSD interface is 4bit afaik Jul 09 20:53:55 emmc is Ibit Jul 09 20:53:59 8 Jul 09 20:55:31 btw, my impression from randomly reading flamewars on this topic: regular linux has "60", compile benchmarks show 100 is fastest, the interactivity/desktop people want filecache to never cause swapout, but all benchmarks even of interactivity shows this to be negative impact Jul 09 20:56:14 and naive people set it to 0 and are happily promoting and gleeming how excellent it is, until they crash hard Jul 09 20:56:43 it all depends on what hw you have got Jul 09 20:57:04 Also as we can see on tmo, people are reporting improvements from things that are clearly only placebos Jul 09 20:57:06 but I respect pycage and believe his words that30 is optimal Jul 09 20:57:15 so it's hard to get real data on whether something helps or not :) Jul 09 20:57:30 no shit, given how elusive performance tuning is Jul 09 20:58:10 I wonder if swap idle readin thing (I forget the real name) still exists.. Jul 09 20:58:47 iirc the idea was to copy pages from swap to ram if there was free ram, at idle io priority Jul 09 20:59:13 mmm...isnt linux using free ram for disk caches? Jul 09 20:59:53 Yes, but if you've suddenly got free ram, you might want to try predict what the user is going to want to do next, and have it ready in ram Jul 09 21:02:55 ShadowJK: (placebos) you see this all over the place, no matter if tmo, IT, or audiophile maniacs or car tuners Jul 09 21:03:10 hello.. im using package kit here and i have a problem... it cant see packages that are already installed so it thinks it has to download packages that are already installed... its something about the @system repository which is the installed packages, right? how to fix this? Jul 09 21:04:57 ShadowJK: (ready in RAM) only if you can afford the plenty useless reads, which usually you don't want to on a weakly battery powered device Jul 09 21:06:18 Well make it a threshold of 40M free, try to fill it to 8M free, oneshot Jul 09 21:06:33 the whole game is always a tradeoff between speed and power consumption, with a sweetspot ideally, and for sure with extremes where trowing in 5 times the power only gives you 2% of performance increase Jul 09 22:31:59 nite all, sweet dreams Jul 09 23:11:56 moblin-panel-web keeps crashing :/ Jul 09 23:14:10 moblin-panel-we[3116]: segfault at 0 ip b713184b sp bf88bd90 error 4 in libapp_base.so[b70b4000+9a000] Jul 09 23:16:02 cyas Jul 09 23:33:28 qemu-kvm -m 512 -vga std -hda meego-n900-open-armv7l-1.0.0.20100525.1-sda.raw Jul 09 23:33:39 soneone knows, why this doenst work? Jul 09 23:34:03 and what to do, to get it workig Jul 09 23:37:14 one reason is that you're trying to run a ARM image using a x86 virtual machine.. Jul 09 23:38:49 doenst qemu has an option to emulate arm Jul 09 23:39:26 sure, but that's qemu-system-arm Jul 09 23:45:13 qemu-system-arm -M versatilepb -kernel meego-n900-open-armv7l-1.0.0.20100525.1-vmlinuz-2.6.33.3-11.2-n900 -hda meego-n900-open-armv7l-1.0.0.20100525.1-sda.raw Jul 09 23:45:16 this one better? Jul 09 23:46:00 but just get a black screen Jul 09 23:48:44 closer, now you're trying to boot a n900 kernel on a versatile PB board, emulated Jul 09 23:48:50 you'll want -M n900 Jul 10 00:05:16 hello everyone. it's been a while i'd guess. Jul 10 00:05:35 'lo, how goes? Jul 10 00:07:15 pretty nice thisplace. Jul 10 00:07:22 the evening's young... Jul 10 00:07:28 just 8:07 :) Jul 10 00:08:38 so how're you, Stskeeps? Jul 10 00:09:25 i'm good, returning to my home in poland in 19 hours :P Jul 10 00:09:49 where aer you right nowß Jul 10 00:10:11 at a hotel in my former university town, denmark Jul 10 00:10:17 ah, cool :) Jul 10 00:10:20 what led you there? nokia? Jul 10 00:10:31 nah, family Jul 10 00:12:38 ah ok . Jul 10 00:12:43 didn't know you had family there. Jul 10 00:14:51 originally from denmark, so Jul 10 00:33:30 TSCHAK, what thread is that? in forum or mailing-list ? Jul 10 00:44:23 odin_: ML Jul 10 01:34:55 "Discussed internally" Jul 10 01:35:15 Different face on the same game, we see. Jul 10 01:35:23 no Jul 10 01:35:35 read arjan's reply further on Jul 10 01:35:46 the discussion referred to was on meego-packaging Jul 10 01:36:05 (evening, and why am I still awake?) Jul 10 01:36:34 3442 unread in -dev Jul 10 01:36:51 I wish so many community-relevant discussions didnmt happen there. Jul 10 02:52:24 --he **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jul 10 02:59:56 2010