**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 19 02:59:56 2010 Jul 19 03:00:20 a) there probably isnt many people wanting it on their droids and so probably little to no effort to get it working Jul 19 03:00:44 and b) doubtful you'll get it in an update.zip :P Jul 19 03:02:05 Just needs some real generic graphics drivers and poulsbo. Jul 19 03:47:17 Droid? Jul 19 03:47:23 goodluckwiththat Jul 19 03:47:44 That really isn't going to be any easier than getting a Symbian device booting something else. Jul 19 03:48:07 Graphics are same as N900 Jul 19 04:22:23 Crash210: the situation with imgtec drivers are the same on N900 or any other SGX implementors, we have to hide our image behind an EULA :/ that's what is harming poulsbo too Jul 19 04:23:09 what is however important is that drivers should be easily accessible Jul 19 04:25:01 it's the same reasoning why meego from meego.com doesn't support nvidia out of the box, can't include the closed drivers (yes, i know there Jul 19 04:25:10 's noveau but not much into that) Jul 19 04:25:20 as they can't legally include them in an image :) Jul 19 04:26:26 (keep in mind meego is a linux foundation project and hence legally seperate from intel or nokia) Jul 19 04:28:49 well, easily accessible is one thing, keeping it from holding updates to things like X back is another :/ Jul 19 04:29:01 that is another problem yes Jul 19 04:29:02 I'm disappointed even the new atom SoC uses it Jul 19 04:29:42 but if it's going to follow MeeGo as a point of reference, with releases every 6 months, it should match Xorg ones fairly well? Jul 19 04:33:11 microlith: at least on n900 we have fbdev-sgx which is OSS Jul 19 04:33:40 it links to some closed libs but so it goes Jul 19 04:37:50 Stskeeps: potentially, but considering intel's current behavior regarding the GMA500 series, I'm not optimistic Jul 19 04:38:03 i think their hands are rather forced Jul 19 04:38:05 they'll probably shovel it off on the device vendor Jul 19 04:38:34 i don't know if you noticed, but for iegd they at least had ivi images with it integrated and a repo with rpms Jul 19 04:39:03 oh? Jul 19 04:39:20 you needed to accept an EULA, but it was there Jul 19 04:39:46 hmm Jul 19 04:39:58 (in moblin) Jul 19 04:40:35 I'll have to dig in more sometime late august, once I get a beagleboard Jul 19 04:42:04 situation on beagle is ironically worse, heh Jul 19 04:42:20 have to go to TI, sign up for account, send a mail to get access to the GFX SDK .. Jul 19 04:42:41 at least on n810 you'd then have to execute a gui installer in linux ;) Jul 19 04:42:55 this is where i hope stuff like linaro will help make things .. saner Jul 19 04:46:22 bleh, I hope so :/ Jul 19 06:25:14 I need to install gconf-devel in the meego neetbook ux chroot, but it is not available in the repos added by default. Where do I get it from? Jul 19 07:13:01 I am trying to build meego-panel-myzone in meego netbook ux. It says "No package 'meego-panel' found". How do I install it? Jul 19 07:23:22 I am trying to build meego-panel-myzone in the netbook ux. I am getting a "No package 'meego-panel' found" error. Jul 19 07:27:11 How do i build the netbook-ux from source? Jul 19 07:31:09 ChildOfGod: this is the chan for that kind of issue. Jul 19 07:31:23 lbt: ok. Jul 19 07:31:24 Sadly I don't know the answer or I'd help Jul 19 07:31:32 lbt: so could you point me to a link here please? Jul 19 07:31:41 ok. Jul 19 07:31:56 it sounds like you are missing a dependency... Jul 19 07:32:01 I just want to modify a few of the ux elements. Jul 19 07:32:11 yes but i dont see that package anywhere Jul 19 07:32:36 there are some flags that can be set like MPL_CFLAGS or MPL_CLIBS Jul 19 07:32:45 but i dont know what to fill up there Jul 19 07:37:17 lbt: my build still fails with No space left on device Jul 19 07:37:34 fabo: what are you building? Jul 19 07:37:37 compiling qt? Jul 19 07:37:38 :P Jul 19 07:38:08 X-Fade: we need an OBS entry on teh bugz Jul 19 07:38:17 yeah, Qt :) Jul 19 07:38:22 tough Jul 19 07:38:26 use gtk Jul 19 07:38:36 * lbt runs away Jul 19 07:39:10 last time I used gtk, it was like 10 years ago ... Jul 19 07:39:10 OK ... me and X-Fade discussed on friday... I'll up the VM disk space ASAP :) Jul 19 07:39:34 lbt: he raised the disk space already Jul 19 07:40:20 oh... how much space does Qt need to build? Jul 19 07:40:34 he asked to retry on saturday Jul 19 07:40:49 lbt: 6-8 Go dependeing on features Jul 19 07:41:14 yeah - I thought we upped it to 10G Jul 19 07:41:25 strange then Jul 19 07:41:34 10G should be fine Jul 19 07:41:42 let me log in Jul 19 07:43:18 (and I build without qtwebkit :P) Jul 19 07:45:31 lbt: 6Go is enough on Debian builders Jul 19 07:48:05 fabo: good news.... they're only 6Gb Jul 19 08:13:26 I need to modify a few items on the meego netbook ux. Is this what I need to follow http://wiki.meego.com/Developing_in_a_Meego_Environment ? Jul 19 08:13:38 I simply need to remove a few things from meego-panel-myzone Jul 19 08:14:18 i would use the netbook sdk. Jul 19 08:15:50 Stskeeps: i am doing the same, but inside the netbook sdk chroot itself i am unable to build Jul 19 08:16:00 it says "meego-panel" not found Jul 19 08:16:06 and i cant find any such package. Jul 19 08:16:08 grab the source rpm? Jul 19 08:16:23 more coffee! Jul 19 08:16:30 Stskeeps: meego-panel source rpm? Jul 19 08:16:41 but there is no such package that i can see Jul 19 08:16:57 repo.meego.com, go look Jul 19 08:17:36 Myrtti: Good idea! Jul 19 08:19:40 AND coconut cookies. Jul 19 08:24:52 Stskeeps: there is no package meego-panel :( Jul 19 08:32:19 Stskeeps: hey i think i fixed it. Jul 19 08:32:30 just enabled the source repo and installed it. Jul 19 08:34:19 mmm, not working........ Jul 19 08:45:28 morn slaine Jul 19 08:45:46 Stskeeps: ugh, morning Jul 19 08:55:10 Hi. The instructions for using the handset UX kickstart file says you need to have Fedora 12. For all other development Ubuntu 9.10 has been recommended. Has anyone tried kickstart on Ubuntu or do I need to get F12 (F13?)? Jul 19 08:55:11 i detect a global "urg monday" feeling in pretty much every channel i've looked in! Jul 19 09:01:27 morning slaine Jul 19 09:02:25 morning amjad Jul 19 09:02:37 lcuk, it's raining, it's humid and I didn't sleep well Jul 19 09:02:56 conditions are perfect for an "ugh" monday Jul 19 09:03:12 monday blues :) Jul 19 11:31:30 Could someone point me to the mutter-meego rpm package? Is it still in use or is it deprecated? Jul 19 11:41:55 where is the official repo to get MIC2? Jul 19 11:42:48 InformatiQ: http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-developer-tools Jul 19 11:43:02 w00t_: that is the git repo Jul 19 11:43:12 w00t_: i am looking fot the rpm repo Jul 19 11:44:15 repo.meego.com/tools/, then Jul 19 11:44:26 which is often out of date Jul 19 11:44:39 often => pretty much always :P Jul 19 11:45:26 :) Jul 19 11:45:50 it is still at 0.17 Jul 19 11:46:16 i found this http://download.meego.com/live/devel:/tools:/building/openSUSE_11.3/ Jul 19 11:46:21 InformatiQ: http://alioth.debian.org/~fabo/mic2-0.19-2.1.noarch.rpm Jul 19 11:47:20 fabo: is that reliable version (looks weired being n rpm on debian.org) Jul 19 11:47:43 InformatiQ: it is, unfortunately. Jul 19 11:48:24 thanks fabo Jul 19 11:48:25 InformatiQ: you're not the 1st to ask for mic2 package and I'm able to provide it. Jul 19 11:48:42 Does anyone know how to get DVD playback working on MeeGo? I have a USB powered DVD burner that when I plug into meego it doesnt recognise/cant read discs. Was wondering if its a library missing or something? Jul 19 11:48:58 unfortunately, I have access to my personal space on alioth only. Jul 19 12:08:18 may someone help me installing meego on my N210? Jul 19 12:25:00 DevSibwarra, Samsung N210? Jul 19 12:25:05 yes Jul 19 12:25:57 working with meego when starting from the usb stick works perfectly Jul 19 12:26:14 but the installation doesnt work :/ i get a black screen after the first restart Jul 19 12:26:23 with a cursor Jul 19 12:26:48 DevSibwarra, I know that I had major issues with graphics driver for the NC10 - not sure how close they are Jul 19 12:27:12 hmm... but the netbooks have all the same driver? and it works starting it from the usb stick :/ Jul 19 12:27:23 DevSibwarra, Try booking the kernel with init=/bin/sh and see if you get anywhere? Jul 19 12:27:45 DevSibwarra, The chips are different, I think Jul 19 12:27:55 Don't let me freak you out, I don't really know much :) Jul 19 12:28:47 me too ^^ Jul 19 12:51:51 sample media takes forever to install while developing a image Jul 19 13:56:02 do we have any filesystem engineers around here? i am pondering unionfs hammering to have a "preferred" faster storage space below the slower larger one with automatic movement between the layers Jul 19 13:58:36 lcuk: go for it Jul 19 13:59:32 TSCHAKeee, everywhere i am looking is telling me that file system engineering is a VERY precise and difficult task, hence seeking some indepth knowledge from the experts :) Jul 19 14:10:01 hi Jul 19 14:10:34 amjad: can't you remove it from the package list in the kickstart file if it's taking too long? Jul 19 14:52:39 why havent i seen a mail i sent to meego-dev - does it not come back to me until someone replies? Jul 19 14:53:02 fairly standard behaviour? Jul 19 14:59:31 Hi I wanted to know how to get battery information on meego using some c/c++ library ? Jul 19 15:00:04 I am interested in getting the battery status i.e. remaining battery life etc .. so any help ? Jul 19 15:00:16 galatage, you can get it using c/c++ dbus-bindings to uPower/devicekit.power Jul 19 15:00:39 galatage, netbook? Jul 19 15:00:42 or handset? Jul 19 15:00:52 trip0, netbook Jul 19 15:01:15 galatage, yeah, use devicekit Jul 19 15:01:15 is there a direct qt api for getting this kind of info Jul 19 15:01:21 lcuk, nope Jul 19 15:02:03 http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-handset-ux/contextkit-meego/trees/master/battery Jul 19 15:02:19 that's the contextkit provider for battery on handset Jul 19 15:02:37 which uses devicekit.power Jul 19 15:02:47 which reminds me we should probably make a devicekit.power plugin for bme at some point.. Jul 19 15:03:25 Stskeeps, bme is the maemo thingy? Jul 19 15:03:39 it's that annoying little blob we'd rather be rid of, yes ;) Jul 19 15:04:01 (no offense to it's authors, just licensing) Jul 19 15:04:19 ah yes. i remember now. the old contextkit provider communicated over some ipc to the bme Jul 19 15:04:27 ah Jul 19 15:04:27 and thus we had to write a new one for meego Jul 19 15:04:36 makes sense Jul 19 15:04:45 probably best to die in with devicekit Jul 19 15:04:49 er, tie Jul 19 15:04:56 trip0, thank you... Jul 19 15:06:52 amjad: add -sample-media to ks Jul 19 15:13:20 DawnFoster: could you remind me again where the OSU server related stuff (IRC etc) was? can't locate it again :/ Jul 19 15:14:06 nevermind - found it in bookmarks Jul 19 15:14:21 stskeeps: ha, was just sending you the link Jul 19 15:14:24 thanks Jul 19 15:14:43 Web_infrastructure isn't linked from mshaver's link at community office so was lost :) Jul 19 15:18:02 povbot, version Jul 19 15:18:04 Stskeeps: The current (running) version of this Supybot is 0.83.4.1. The newest version available online is 0.83.4.1. Jul 19 15:18:13 oh, that's nice - same as meetbot Jul 19 15:21:19 it's linked now Jul 19 15:21:39 thanks Jul 19 15:23:52 added some details on the irc setup, will add proposal for OSU after researching a bit Jul 19 15:42:27 DawnFoster: http://wiki.meego.com/Web_infrastructure/IRC general overview of what's needed - plan to add some more ideas on metrics input Jul 19 15:43:03 mgedmin has volunteered for helping set up the bot and similar logging setup as he has (as well as a tarball of the previous #meego logs) Jul 19 15:44:19 stskeeps: cool, thanks Jul 19 15:49:21 * Stskeeps ponders if he can locate some notes on what was discussed at cls10 about the challenges of combining maemo and moblin Jul 19 15:50:43 Stskeeps: logging is done via supybot at the moment? useful Jul 19 15:50:56 there's a lot of supybot modules around :) Jul 19 15:54:03 stskeeps: those were my comments Jul 19 15:54:05 :) Jul 19 15:54:23 DawnFoster: ah :) Jul 19 15:54:56 mostly about taking 2 established communities that were very different and slapping them together to be one big community Jul 19 15:56:01 didn't get into any real details Jul 19 15:57:10 i am starting to have a theory that our problem isn't so much 2 established communities, but that we're merging actually a small bunch of communities instead - like, intel internal community working on moblin, moblin 'users', the maemo development team and maemo.org, the system developers of maemo.org vs the application developers of maemo.org.. etc Jul 19 15:58:11 I think they are also very different audiences - moblin was more of a kernel coder community, while Maemo has a lot of device enthusiasts Jul 19 15:58:43 yeah, hopefully we can all get along but some collisions may occour/have occoured Jul 19 15:58:49 those 2 audiences don't necessarily come together easily Jul 19 15:58:57 Olive branches help Jul 19 16:03:01 i kind of like the CO's mission of 'The Community Office (CO) defines the strategy for collaboration tools and processes within the MeeGo project, and observes its implementation. ', - ie, being there to grease the wheels of the whole community and help others get into it Jul 19 16:03:42 by community meaning entire project + activities around it Jul 19 16:05:35 and I've been trying to make suggestions for where we really need help: http://wiki.meego.com/Contributing_to_MeeGo (this page needs to be vastly simplified) Jul 19 16:06:48 the twice monthly community meetings were also designed to help people find areas where they can contribute: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Meetings Jul 19 16:07:09 i was thinking of setting up some levels of openness, as in, a list of places with for example how deep they can contribute at this time - how (is there meetings, is there a mailing list, can i tell who's involved, where is their gitorious ..).. not as a blame sheet but more as a guide Jul 19 16:07:12 we have a meeting tomorrow (hint) Jul 19 16:07:55 Less stop motion would be good. Jul 19 16:11:34 DawnFoster: we often complain a lot here and you deal with us quite well even though we're unreasonable at times :).. - i got pondering the other day: what do you think is the biggest problem(s) we have at the moment? and perhaps also, what do you think are the best things that are going on in the project? Jul 19 16:12:00 EIPI used to do interviews with various community people, could be nice to have some of those for MeeGo in general, as to help personify people instead of just their roles Jul 19 16:12:09 yeah, I would love to get people moving from complaining to doing :) Jul 19 16:12:44 biggest issue right now is that users in the forums aren't getting answers to their questions Jul 19 16:14:53 I also think that one of the more exciting areas coming up will be application development - it's critical to the success of MeeGo, and people are going to need help getting familiar with the tools. Jul 19 16:15:48 This is why I'm so excited to see w00t's project: http://wiki.meego.com/DeveloperEngagement Jul 19 16:16:08 biggest issue right now for people is that you have to have uber linux skills and/or a phd to get it installed or have money to buy first a new machine, then be brave enough to wipe the main OS from it. images and kickstarts and faff and extreme specifications for a linux distribution technically not that different to ubuntu. I am not even going into the complexity of trying the handset image. Jul 19 16:16:37 right now, all of our images are developer images Jul 19 16:16:54 sure, wheres the live cd for intel machines? Jul 19 16:16:59 they are designed so that OEMs can take them and re-package them on a system Jul 19 16:17:12 well those OEMs are people too Jul 19 16:17:20 and if they can stick a cd in a machine and show boss Jul 19 16:17:29 you just won a battle Jul 19 16:17:36 lcuk: my point is that end users should go the OEM route Jul 19 16:17:55 DawnFoster: there's still a bit of ambivalence if meego's targetting users or not, especially with how it gets presented on web site and such Jul 19 16:18:09 that said, i do have some forum threads i should answer on Jul 19 16:18:14 OEMs have tons of test machines sitting around - the problem you described is an end use issue - not an oem issue Jul 19 16:18:30 To be fair: the OEMs want better images too. It's new software, everyone wants it to work better than it does. Jul 19 16:18:33 DawnFoster, the guy sat in his office with that machine Jul 19 16:18:38 stskeeps: yeah, it's a huge issue & one that I spend a lot of time talking to Imad about Jul 19 16:18:39 can just stick a cd in and see OS Jul 19 16:18:43 to know to go to his boss Jul 19 16:18:59 that's why we have live bootable images off a thumb drive Jul 19 16:19:25 DawnFoster: on the other hand, to get sufficient brand hype for the upcoming devices that are 'MeeGo' brand, something needs to be done like it has been :/ Jul 19 16:19:39 Too many times people come in with an idea or a question and the answers do everything but encourage contribution Jul 19 16:19:54 I realize part of that is due to infra and processes not being in place Jul 19 16:20:04 But it's discouraging and energy sapping all the same Jul 19 16:20:28 It'd be nice to see some more effort to reach out to that positive energy and utilize it. Jul 19 16:21:48 DawnFoster, there are 100s of linux distributions. the greatest majority who want to be user friendly make it simple to get tested on machines, make it simple to see things. ive seen people literally melt by trying to go through the red tape required to get things started Jul 19 16:22:24 GAN900: to be honest, it's really draining and discouraging for me, too. I keep trying to suggest where people can get involved, yet I see little involvement compared to the level of complaining. Jul 19 16:33:18 DawnFoster, obviously there's a problem then. Jul 19 16:34:12 Personally I got discouraged early on when questions and input were answered primarily with silence or sometimes with stop motion. Jul 19 16:34:31 and I haven't been able to work up the energy to keep trying. :) Jul 19 16:36:14 The first few months of the project were frustrating for everyone during the transition to getting the code out in the open. Jul 19 16:36:17 As far as I can tell, many (most?) of the high-profile contributors in Maemo are in a similar place. Jul 19 16:36:24 i think one of the problems is that we've been fighting for more involvement in platform from maemo.org site, more input taken into the development, transparency, etc.. and now we really don't have a place for that Jul 19 16:36:40 making processes, volunteering for bugsquads, or other things Jul 19 16:36:58 hmm Jul 19 16:37:11 some of these people could make the best HR/administration in meego, to grease things and work towards solutions :P Jul 19 16:38:05 but i think that it 'feels' like we're at scratch also discourages, as the problems in maemo were big in those areas and took out a lot of energy already before meego came about Jul 19 16:38:29 i don't understand the problem Jul 19 16:38:35 i have good hopes for august, however - my personal worry is that when people pop out and say hi, noone's there to shake their hands :P Jul 19 16:39:03 what's in august? Jul 19 16:39:14 people return refreshed from holidays Jul 19 16:39:50 ahh Jul 19 16:39:51 DawnFoster, targetting only OEMs with your images is a bit silly when there's so much advertising going on about open and getting contributors involved. Jul 19 16:39:52 :P Jul 19 16:40:28 GAN900: me and lbt discussed at some point to have Mer being a MeeGo 'OEM', which was more towards end users Jul 19 16:40:38 I didn't say we were only targeting OEMs. I said this was a developer image and that end users should use images from OEMs Jul 19 16:40:47 So either the images need to be friendly or the public website just needs to shut down and move everything internal Jul 19 16:40:54 I'd expect developers to use these images Jul 19 16:40:56 my anti-reasoning was that patches into meego would probably be welcome Jul 19 16:41:25 Stskeeps, +1 Jul 19 16:41:48 I would love to see people fixing things and submitting patches Jul 19 16:42:06 it is slowly but firmly getting there as more people see how processes work and where to go Jul 19 16:42:40 and the community OBS is looking functional... it should provide a way to ease into MeeGo core development Jul 19 16:42:51 the interest into community OBS was really encouraging in that area, yeah Jul 19 16:43:06 imagine if we'd had that from the start, heh :) Jul 19 16:43:11 I need the maemo guys to show more interest there Jul 19 16:43:17 community obs will be the awesome Jul 19 16:43:29 i need to do something with it :P Jul 19 16:43:43 I didn't really want to 'launch' it on the maemo.org server Jul 19 16:44:01 but the OSU servers are being installed by the hardware pixies Jul 19 16:44:12 :| Jul 19 16:44:59 I would say we're in the hands of the hardware gods... but since they appear to lack the ability to move a server I now imagine them as tiny green pixies fluttering around the racks being ineffectual... Jul 19 16:45:57 DawnFoster, except no such thing exists right now. Jul 19 16:46:08 DawnFoster, and enthusiasm is going out the door because of it. Jul 19 16:46:24 GAN900: not sure what you mean it doesn't exist right now? Jul 19 16:46:32 Ubuntu is a better example to model from as far as this goes, in my opinion. Jul 19 16:46:41 DawnFoster, what OEM images? Jul 19 16:47:00 i.e., "Pay to play"? :) Jul 19 16:47:02 GAN900: as you know, it takes time Jul 19 16:47:18 GAN900: if you had the shot and the role/mandate to do something in MeeGo, what would it be? Jul 19 16:47:21 the OEMs get the images at the same time as the community Jul 19 16:47:47 Let's focus on solutions here rather than problems Jul 19 16:48:13 * lbt would like to see MeeGo 'runnable' on any laptop... even ... an AMD one Jul 19 16:48:21 DawnFoster, problem: linux community typically makes use of older tech - linux itself is installed on everything. Jul 19 16:48:26 lbt: great, patches? :) Jul 19 16:48:45 lbt: i think we could go a long way by making patches for NVIDIA graphics alone Jul 19 16:48:47 and the first version of linux only ran on 386 with AT drives Jul 19 16:48:51 DawnFoster: first I have to build a build system to build my patches on.... Jul 19 16:48:54 because that's what Linus owned Jul 19 16:48:59 and I'm doing that :) Jul 19 16:49:06 it takes time to build in support for everything Jul 19 16:49:08 DawnFoster, but NOW linux runs on everything - and you are based on linux Jul 19 16:49:10 lbt: even a ubuntu like system of fetching things Jul 19 16:49:24 I would like to see the community OBS build a generic X86 MeeGo Jul 19 16:49:29 lcuk: it runs on everything because people contribute to it to make it run on everything Jul 19 16:49:33 that didn't just happen out of thin air Jul 19 16:49:43 w00t_, it already did happen Jul 19 16:49:47 Stskeeps, given that no devices exist and given that there's no focus on users or enthusiasts, I don't think there's a role I could fill. Jul 19 16:50:03 GAN900: do you have a laptop? Jul 19 16:50:17 GAN900: if maemo had been fully open source, had there been any role for you to fit then? Jul 19 16:50:25 When you expand the available platforms, you add drivers, compatibility layers Jul 19 16:50:26 Stskeeps: nvidia? I'd rather focus on radeon Jul 19 16:50:30 Things get bloated Jul 19 16:50:33 lbt: or radeon Jul 19 16:50:43 ScottishDuck, ok, so stick with intel only Jul 19 16:50:51 intel chipsets intel cpus Jul 19 16:50:52 * lbt only buys ATI if at all possible :) Jul 19 16:51:01 ugh ATi Jul 19 16:51:10 you'd rather buy nvidia? Jul 19 16:51:15 Yes Jul 19 16:51:16 Stskeeps: lbt: both should be possible, noveau is supposed to be more usable nowdays Jul 19 16:51:27 * lbt stabs ScottishDuck with a blob Jul 19 16:51:30 nouveau is great in 2D, getting there in 3D Jul 19 16:51:42 Stskeeps, given the focus of maemo.org, yes. Jul 19 16:51:50 http://www.ubuntu.com/news/canonical-dell-deliver-ubuntu-moblin-remix Jul 19 16:51:54 as a developer community? :P Jul 19 16:51:56 Stskeeps, my roles don't have a lot to do with sourciness, I think. Jul 19 16:52:02 where did those patches go? Jul 19 16:53:56 GAN900: that's a cryptic answer Jul 19 16:54:00 Stskeeps, as community facilitator? Sometimes bugzilla filer/triager/admin, and documentation "guy"? Jul 19 16:54:29 w00t_, because I don't have a well-crystalized view on things. Jul 19 16:54:42 Otherwise I'd have more to say about solutions. :) Jul 19 16:54:48 GAN900: so, greasing the wheels.. keeping things moving and pointing people in the right directions? Jul 19 16:55:06 w00t_, more or less. Jul 19 16:57:00 But bugzilla doesn't appear to need my assistance, the docs are developer-oriented and not of much interest to me and community facilitation isn't enthusiat oriented and doesn't seem particularly interesed in my input. Jul 19 16:57:35 GAN900, you are official keyboard tester Jul 19 16:58:03 you can type faster than anyone i know on a mobile device and did more to convince people they were usable for "normal" tasks than anyone i remember Jul 19 16:58:57 you got a bit more grumpy recently ;) but dude you were using nokias as full time things when lots were still poking randomly Jul 19 16:59:50 GAN900: i'd say bugzilla still needs assistance, especially the new QA structure being set up Jul 19 17:00:55 seems like they're really doing the 'right thing' with active developers in bugzilla, weekly images and all that and in the open too - it might be that QA is too fast for the rest of us at times :) Jul 19 17:07:37 Stskeeps, perhaps, but there isn't a real obvious in Jul 19 17:07:49 Feels a bit like the Maemo QA days. Jul 19 17:08:17 does bugs.meego.com actually do stuff? Jul 19 17:08:19 i've filed things Jul 19 17:08:28 but it feels nearly as useful as symbian's bugzilla Jul 19 17:08:48 (actually, symbian has two bugzillas, one for web content, one for engineering product) Jul 19 17:09:00 (the former is vaguely useful, the latter is mostly depressing) Jul 19 17:09:37 Stskeeps, as an enthusiast community, by the way. Jul 19 17:10:04 Stskeeps, MeeGo seems more interested in courting OEMs and leaving enthusiasts out in the cold. Jul 19 17:10:48 GAN900, maemo would be nothing if it didn't have an OEM behind it with actual products Jul 19 17:10:54 While saying Intel shouldn't have to provide support for their competitors' products is reasonable enough, I think that position really does a lot of damage to the project in the short term. Jul 19 17:10:58 trip0, no shit. Jul 19 17:11:10 thus, you wouldn't be here ;) Jul 19 17:11:43 There's a lot to be said for striking a balance Jul 19 17:11:58 and I have areas I can contribute expertise in Jul 19 17:12:13 and something is preventing you from doing that? Jul 19 17:12:17 enthusiast communities are foremost, probably. Jul 19 17:12:40 trip0, I tried initially, was met with stop motion and/or silence. Jul 19 17:12:48 Now I'm mostly burnt out. :) Jul 19 17:12:53 trip0: GAN900 is not alone Jul 19 17:12:59 i don't work for intel Jul 19 17:13:14 but i do work for some company which supposedly has some interest in MeeGo Jul 19 17:13:24 and i haven't really felt any way to usefully contribute Jul 19 17:13:27 i've found friendly people Jul 19 17:13:33 but mostly voids Jul 19 17:13:50 any specific issues? Jul 19 17:14:38 i've seen lots of community involvement in bugs Jul 19 17:14:42 also in the community obs Jul 19 17:14:46 i've filed a number of bugs Jul 19 17:14:54 most of them are in some random ignored state Jul 19 17:15:08 which is i think actually worse than my experience w/ symbian (for dev bugs) Jul 19 17:15:25 i worked in one community meeting and got approval to provide a service Jul 19 17:15:41 it's now stuck in some bureaucratic procedure void Jul 19 17:15:53 i tried to get involved in a community, the charter of which was rejected Jul 19 17:16:14 that community's organizer has indicated that the problems the community wanted to address are suffering and have been since day 1 Jul 19 17:16:23 (and that person works for intel) Jul 19 17:16:49 the official statement from the TSG was that the area should be integrated instead of being split out Jul 19 17:17:03 the form of integration according to this person is ~not doing it at all~ Jul 19 17:17:31 timeless_mbp, what service are you wanting to work ong? Jul 19 17:17:33 on* Jul 19 17:17:48 mxr Jul 19 17:17:59 (a pilot of which can be seen @ mxr.moego.org ) Jul 19 17:18:10 and wanting to work on it is kinda um… odd Jul 19 17:18:11 it's done Jul 19 17:18:14 it just wants a cname Jul 19 17:18:16 There isn't a lot of facilitation of "just do it". Jul 19 17:18:16 which i was promised Jul 19 17:18:27 in an official meeting Jul 19 17:18:42 trip0: anyway, my battery is running low Jul 19 17:18:44 i'm starving Jul 19 17:18:54 i'm supposed to be somewhere in <45 mins Jul 19 17:18:58 timeless_mbp, has a nice evening. :) Jul 19 17:19:05 most of the people there intend to fast for the next day or so Jul 19 17:19:05 s/has/have/ Jul 19 17:19:05 GAN900 meant: timeless_mbp, have a nice evening. :) Jul 19 17:19:37 GAN900: reading Lamentations is not exactly my def'n of a nice evening Jul 19 17:19:42 but i appreciate the intention Jul 19 17:19:49 Hehe Jul 19 17:20:33 trip0: anyway, i don't hide Jul 19 17:20:37 you can find my bugs Jul 19 17:20:41 you can contact me Jul 19 17:20:45 you can review the logs Jul 19 17:20:56 if you think you can help, poke me wednesday or so Jul 19 17:21:03 and please note that i'm not a fan of symbian Jul 19 17:21:09 i'm merely using it as a reference point Jul 19 17:37:54 any meetings today? Jul 19 19:07:25 auke: +1 for your mail Jul 19 19:08:12 Stskeeps: thanks Jul 19 19:09:19 Stskeeps: I've got some more for you if you're interested in them. I send a few of these per month on average, usually to brilliant people who make cameo appearances on various projects' e-mail lists. Jul 19 19:10:36 auke: a follow-up could ideally be 'where have you tried to contribute and what kept you from doing that if anything' as well to locate those who wants to genuinely contribute and find our where our holes are Jul 19 19:11:12 on the xfce lists we had a guy claim (quote) "I am just a power with great vision. " Jul 19 19:12:31 after I stopped laughing (took a while), he got a snark reply and never was seen again Jul 19 19:13:12 of course, he could have just gotten new glasses that day, makes you wonder. Jul 19 19:49:19 Abort: revision 48034 is already managed Jul 19 19:49:20 abort: revision 48034 is already managed Jul 19 19:49:22 oops, wrong window Jul 19 20:03:42 Anyone here with knowledge about china tablets? Jul 19 20:04:44 which ones? Jul 19 20:05:19 for enlarging or prolongation? Jul 19 20:05:39 nah, those are from india Jul 19 20:05:42 ;) Jul 19 20:05:47 lol Jul 19 20:06:21 Well, I�m looking for something whcic will enable me to have linux running with working graphics drivers Jul 19 20:06:34 is running meego on an android phone (rooted) possible? Jul 19 20:06:38 I believe cialis fail greatly in that department Jul 19 20:06:52 hm... Jul 19 20:07:01 most of the devices use the nasty PowerVR chip Jul 19 20:07:13 which doesn't really have the drivers Jul 19 20:07:16 I was seconds away from buying the SmartQ V5 when i realized that one flaw Jul 19 20:07:21 gert_: you ought to be more specific than "china tablets" I suspect Jul 19 20:07:35