**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Aug 20 02:59:56 2010 Aug 20 06:00:40 on the n900 what is working? Aug 20 06:00:54 bought an microSD and willing to test Aug 20 06:01:15 sejo: grab latest weekly and follow instructions on wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/MMC Aug 20 06:01:18 and check it out Aug 20 06:01:27 non-destructive operation to your maemo install Aug 20 06:01:42 Stskeeps: I did but took the 20100803 and that one didn't boot Aug 20 06:01:50 so d/l the 20100817 now Aug 20 06:02:07 i need to dd it and then flash the vmlinuz file right? Aug 20 06:02:10 basicly ui works, and all the apps are just placeholders Aug 20 06:02:19 can i create a dual boot? Aug 20 06:02:22 and remember 1) to bunzip2 raw image first 2) don't take sdX1, take sdX 3) put back cover on Aug 20 06:02:28 sejo: load, not flash Aug 20 06:02:40 Jonni: hmm, we shouldn't have placeholders anymore Aug 20 06:04:05 Stskeeps: yeah flasher -l Aug 20 06:04:36 Stskeeps: it's closed as I dd to the n900's microsd drive (have no cardreader) Aug 20 06:08:19 usbnetworking is working on 20100817 \o/ Aug 20 06:08:58 sandst1: yeah, if it doesn't work first time, replug cable Aug 20 06:09:04 sandst1: yep. makes life much easier Aug 20 06:09:09 next week's image should be much bette Aug 20 06:09:16 r Aug 20 06:10:50 Stskeeps: btw, what's with the infinite looping m's when trying to type something with the device's keyboard? known bug or just me? Aug 20 06:12:16 timoph: known bug Aug 20 06:12:22 can't give you a BMC# but there's one Aug 20 06:12:37 Stskeeps: ok. thanks Aug 20 06:46:49 morning thp Aug 20 06:48:32 morning Stskeeps! :-P Aug 20 06:49:16 morning andre__! Aug 20 06:49:22 morn andre__ Aug 20 07:05:12 anyone using mic2 with lucid ? Aug 20 07:05:22 seems to die after bind_mount Aug 20 07:19:57 ok written the raw image and loaded the kernel... Aug 20 07:20:27 but it waits on Waiting for root device /dev/mmcblk0p1 Aug 20 07:20:43 ok, how exactly did you write the raw image? Aug 20 07:21:24 dd bs=4096 if= of=/dev/disk4 (where /dev/disk4 is the microsd card) Aug 20 07:21:36 after loading do I remove the usb cable? Aug 20 07:21:47 and is the bunzipped one? Aug 20 07:21:53 yes Aug 20 07:21:58 the raw image Aug 20 07:22:12 and /disk4 is without any partition, like, sdb1? Aug 20 07:22:20 yes Aug 20 07:22:25 ok Aug 20 07:22:30 otherwise it's disk4s1 Aug 20 07:22:46 back cover on and you 'sync' before removing usb cable? Aug 20 07:22:58 back cover on Aug 20 07:23:09 and ejected the device befor removing the cable Aug 20 07:23:24 and no partitions mounted from the sd card in the OS doing the dd? Aug 20 07:23:26 then rebooted an flash loaded the kernel (but kept the cable in) Aug 20 07:23:36 Stskeeps: nope nothing mounted Aug 20 07:23:51 re-write image and check with 'mount' before that Aug 20 07:24:35 k Aug 20 07:25:09 hmm won't be able to mount it Aug 20 07:25:18 mac doesn't know the FS Aug 20 07:25:47 ah Aug 20 07:26:30 i can try to mount on the n900 itself Aug 20 07:26:40 worth checking Aug 20 07:26:47 if it works there, you might be hitting our mmc bug Aug 20 07:30:14 Stskeeps: /dev/mmcblk0p1 is the internal card Aug 20 07:30:21 right Aug 20 07:30:36 mounts fine? Aug 20 07:30:55 yes Aug 20 07:31:12 but I've written the image on the /dev/mmcblk1 Aug 20 07:31:17 which is the microssd Aug 20 07:31:24 that's fine Aug 20 07:31:31 it's reverse in meego, as internal shows up later Aug 20 07:31:35 so mmcblk0 is external card Aug 20 07:32:07 well all cards mount correclly Aug 20 07:32:10 ok Aug 20 07:32:11 and contain the data Aug 20 07:32:13 what brand of card Aug 20 07:32:14 ? Aug 20 07:33:23 it's a scandisk Aug 20 07:33:29 (verified it first Aug 20 07:33:32 4G Aug 20 07:33:40 sandisk? Aug 20 07:34:03 can you check if the kernel detects cover on/off when booted in meego kernel? Aug 20 07:34:58 the back cover right? Aug 20 07:35:04 reloading Aug 20 07:38:31 now the light doesn't turn on but it doesn't boot neither Aug 20 07:38:52 ok, does it say something on console as you remove the cover? Aug 20 07:40:59 Stskeeps: yes Aug 20 07:41:06 says card inaccesible if I open Aug 20 07:41:16 and card accessible when closing Aug 20 07:41:32 ok Aug 20 07:41:42 can you file a bug with exact specs of your SD card? Aug 20 07:42:01 yes I think that should be possible Aug 20 07:42:06 thanks Aug 20 07:42:10 OS Base -> MMC driver or something Aug 20 07:42:22 and Architecture ARM, Handset Aug 20 07:44:35 registering Aug 20 07:48:12 that is version 1.0 right? Aug 20 07:48:56 there's an exact build number in the filename of the raw image Aug 20 07:48:58 1.0.80.something Aug 20 07:59:48 Stskeeps: http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=5600 Aug 20 08:00:06 couldn't install lspci on the n900 :/ Aug 20 08:00:16 so it's all the info i have Aug 20 08:00:17 yeah, no pci on n900 Aug 20 08:00:17 :P Aug 20 08:00:51 ach Aug 20 08:00:54 * sejo facepalms Aug 20 08:01:32 thanks for reporting - we suspect there's a issue with some cards in latest hsmmc, so Aug 20 08:02:16 Stskeeps: welcome Aug 20 08:02:32 tried to install (against knowing better) on my eeepc 900 Aug 20 08:02:50 didn't work neither but that's because I don't have the atom one Aug 20 08:04:10 could someone please help with maping keys on netbook Aug 20 08:04:35 from what i read i know i need to deal wit setkeycodes and xmodmap - but i am not sure what exactly is to be done Aug 20 08:05:06 even though i read the guides it is not clearly (to me) explained where each number is obtained from Aug 20 08:05:07 is the community obs online ? Aug 20 08:08:19 vlj: The beta one at maemo.org is. Aug 20 08:08:55 I can use it ? Aug 20 08:09:14 is it possible to "customise" package from meego distribution with it ? Aug 20 08:09:23 I mean branching a package of meego Aug 20 08:09:42 vlj: You can build against meego 1.0 and meego current. Aug 20 08:09:46 ok Aug 20 08:13:21 err Aug 20 08:13:55 if I use meego obs at maemo.org Aug 20 08:14:25 will it get "ported" to meego.com when meego obs will move to it ? Aug 20 08:15:03 vlj: We have to think about that ;) But it can be copied easily anyway. Aug 20 08:15:20 ok Aug 20 08:16:10 and will a rpm be generated in order to add my accout obs repo to yum ? Aug 20 08:16:41 Yes, your home project will be published as a repository. Aug 20 08:17:28 I'm already a user of obs for opensuse, but I don't know how yum works Aug 20 08:18:27 I just copy/paste repo url to zypper and it works on opensuse Aug 20 08:22:09 err Aug 20 08:22:19 i can only build localy with obs on maemo.org ? Aug 20 08:22:36 vlj: No. Aug 20 08:24:16 well I don't see any "build service" link in maemo.org ;) Aug 20 08:24:33 That is because it is not public yet ;) Aug 20 08:24:58 ok Aug 20 08:25:13 well...any idea when it will be published ? Aug 20 08:25:23 vlj: https://build.obs.maemo.org/ Aug 20 08:26:20 well i cannot register Aug 20 08:31:16 vlj: I can create you an account. I'll PM you in 10 minutes, ok? Aug 20 08:31:32 ok Aug 20 08:31:34 thx Aug 20 08:35:34 hmm, how to find out the MAC address of an N900 running MeeGo? xterm does not display the entered text (only for a short moment when zooming), and no "About product" yet. ssh? Aug 20 08:35:51 andre__: ifconfig wlan0 Aug 20 08:36:11 Stskeeps: that was the idea, but xterm doesn't work:-P Aug 20 08:36:23 andre__: ssh in over usb, 192.168.2.15 is device Aug 20 08:37:03 hmm, okay. thanks :) Aug 20 08:37:59 if it doesn't work first time, replug cable Aug 20 08:39:17 Stskeeps / andre: so, does anyone have a clear understanding of how session proposals will work? Aug 20 08:39:22 sivang: ping Aug 20 08:40:25 timeless_mbp: submit one, things go into a black box: Aug 20 08:40:27 Session proposals will be accepted starting August 1st and will close August 23rd. Around that time we'll open a second process for lightning talk submissions. Aug 20 08:40:30 We expect to have a large subset of the presentations approved and scheduled by early September and are planning to have the final program ready by October 1st. Aug 20 08:41:46 could someone please help with mapping keys on netbook, from what i read i know i need to deal wit setkeycodes and xmodmap - but i am not sure what exactly is to be done Aug 20 08:56:26 err Aug 20 08:56:36 is qt compatible with meego atm ? Aug 20 08:57:01 on qt website it said that qt sdk is "planned on the roadmap" to support meego Aug 20 08:57:49 compatible as in can you compile Qt applications on it? yes Aug 20 08:57:57 the Qt SDK is probably about making that process simpler Aug 20 08:58:01 ok Aug 20 08:58:06 vlj: you can develop applications for MeeGo using Qt, but there isn't yet a nicely packaged Qt + Qt Creator package which does meego out of the box Aug 20 08:58:13 but it won't look "alien" ? Aug 20 08:58:19 no Aug 20 08:58:27 ok Aug 20 09:02:32 where can I find srpm of meego ? Aug 20 09:02:41 repo.meego.com Aug 20 09:02:45 thanks Aug 20 09:06:43 Stskeeps, in order to run meego, i only need to extract the raw image to mmc and flash the kernel? Aug 20 09:07:56 load, not flash Aug 20 09:08:58 yeah, it will load meego's kernel for one time Aug 20 09:09:24 but after than will it flash the stock kernel or the last kernel i had before loading meego? Aug 20 09:09:36 last kernel you had before loading meego Aug 20 09:09:45 is there openjdk on meego ? Aug 20 09:11:11 Stskeeps, no need to partition mmc right? Aug 20 09:11:24 right Aug 20 09:17:38 Morning all, does anyone have a link to xorg-x11-utils-emgdgui-1636-1.1.i586.rpm ? I'm trying to build Meego for the joggler using vgrades instructions but the emgd packages seem to be missing :( Aug 20 09:17:56 I have found all the others on the web but can't find this last package anywhere.. Aug 20 09:18:37 Roy_: repo.meego.com had no right to distribute those, so they were pulled Aug 20 09:18:47 emgdgui is not needed anywy Aug 20 09:19:41 ah ok, so if I just remove that line from the ks file it should still build ok ? Aug 20 09:21:07 maybe Aug 20 09:22:22 well, it's no longer telling me there are more packages to download and seems to be installing some now.. so we'll see :) Aug 20 09:22:45 thanks for the info, I will update the wiki page so that anyone else trying this out knows the files are no longer available Aug 20 09:33:25 Stskeeps, can i move the raw image to mmc and unpack it myself? Aug 20 09:33:33 or i should use "sudo dd bs=4096 if= of=/dev/sdX" Aug 20 09:34:01 second part Aug 20 09:38:09 would this work Aug 20 09:38:30 bzcat meego.raw.bz2 | dd of=/dev/sdX bs=4M Aug 20 09:39:53 in what sense? Aug 20 09:40:16 unstead of decompressing and then copying the image in two steps Aug 20 09:40:30 bunzip2 -c meego.raw.bz2 > /dev/sdX Aug 20 09:40:58 okay that looks better :) Aug 20 09:41:48 Stskeeps, my mmc is /dev/sdh1 should i copy to sdh or sdh1? Aug 20 09:41:55 sdh Aug 20 09:42:02 ta Aug 20 09:42:03 the whole block? Aug 20 09:42:17 hi everyone Aug 20 09:42:26 Stskeeps, so the image can't be on a partitoned microSD? Aug 20 09:42:59 bbl Aug 20 09:43:09 MohammadAG51: you need to manually rsync it to your own partition Aug 20 09:43:21 damn Aug 20 09:43:25 so i new microsd Aug 20 09:43:57 MohammadAG51: Make sure it is at least a 4GB one. Aug 20 09:43:59 Stskeeps, wtf i copied it in like 1 second Aug 20 09:44:07 th3hate: that's usually not good Aug 20 09:44:07 :P Aug 20 09:44:08 th3hate: sync Aug 20 09:45:58 th3hate@th3hate-desktop:~/Desktop$ dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null& pid=$! [1] 3293 Aug 20 09:46:20 Will regular Qt applications work on MeeGo? Eg. the ones that aren't written with MeeGo Touch? Aug 20 09:46:33 that means it's copying? Aug 20 09:46:55 Venemo: sure, there's a plainQt style that makes plain Qt apps look like meego, just like on the N900 Aug 20 09:47:17 harryF: is that actually enabled? Aug 20 09:47:26 Stskeeps: in dev builds, yes Aug 20 09:47:35 fair enough Aug 20 09:47:41 Stskeeps: yes Aug 20 09:48:06 harryF: thanks :) Aug 20 09:48:24 Stskeeps, "kill -USR1 $pid" shows it copied 138GB so far lol Aug 20 09:48:36 harryF: so in the end, what good will MeeGo Touch be? Aug 20 09:49:05 harryF: as far as I know, it operates on some different principles (QGraphicsView) Aug 20 09:49:36 harryF: but I don't know, for example what extra functionality will an MButton give compared to a QButton Aug 20 09:51:32 Venemo: it isn't necessarily the simple areas that it offers a lot of differences in.. MList for example is quite different to QListView Aug 20 09:52:03 but most differences are under the hood, not something that you'd see anyway Aug 20 09:52:41 Stskeeps, "kill -USR1 $pid" is showing crazy numbers and speeds 10GB/s should i reset it? Aug 20 09:53:26 th3hate: sure /dev/sdh exists? Aug 20 09:53:40 w00t_: so will offer better performance, or anything? Aug 20 09:54:03 Stskeeps, yeah "sudo fdisk -l" showed dev/sdh1 as mmc Aug 20 09:54:04 th3hate: if it is a real sd card reader, i want it Aug 20 09:54:05 :P Aug 20 09:54:26 Stskeeps, using n900 mass storage Aug 20 09:54:29 no reader Aug 20 09:54:31 th3hate: hmm Aug 20 09:54:37 th3hate: that's a little too quick even then Aug 20 09:54:53 Stskeeps, but it's showing it copied 600Gb so far lol Aug 20 09:54:58 wish i got mmc that big Aug 20 09:55:55 kill -USR1 $pid Aug 20 09:55:56 1326523425+0 records in Aug 20 09:55:56 1326523425+0 records out Aug 20 09:55:56 679179993600 bytes (679 GB) copied, 611.817 s, 1.1 GB/s Aug 20 09:56:22 yeah, but that is the one you did with dd if=/zero before.. Aug 20 09:56:22 :P Aug 20 09:57:10 i did this "sudo dd bs=4096 if=image.raw.bz2 of=/dev/sdh Aug 20 09:57:25 yes, but you also did dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/null& pid=$! Aug 20 09:57:29 which is still running Aug 20 09:57:29 :P Aug 20 09:57:39 oops Aug 20 09:57:47 what should i do now? Aug 20 09:57:51 killit Aug 20 09:57:51 :P Aug 20 09:58:01 only if you tell me how to Aug 20 09:58:15 * th3hate is linux newbie Aug 20 09:58:22 killall -9 dd Aug 20 09:58:59 now kill -USR1 $pid is showing no such progress Aug 20 09:59:05 load kernel now? Aug 20 09:59:49 Stskeeps, oh wait.. i see nothing copied to mmc directory Aug 20 09:59:51 still 2Gb free Aug 20 10:00:38 dont have it mounted at same time Aug 20 10:01:07 ok, going to flash kernel and try to boot meego Aug 20 10:04:34 Stskeeps, Kenel panic unable to mount root fs Aug 20 10:05:00 th3hate: your problem is likely that you have been dd'ing to the sd card while having it mounted at the same time at your pc. Aug 20 10:05:08 check with 'mount' before dd'ing. Aug 20 10:05:27 it should be unmounted? Aug 20 10:05:37 you should mention that in the wiki Aug 20 10:06:15 feel free to add it Aug 20 10:10:19 Stskeeps, umount /dev/sdh is enough? Aug 20 10:10:43 h1 Aug 20 10:19:35 How do I attach user data to an MButton? Aug 20 10:28:52 * w00t_ tries to read cathy's mail to meego-touch-dev@ for the third time and gives up Aug 20 10:31:13 i find her email address more interesting Aug 20 10:32:29 w00t_, she wants to know if activitymanager is available, which from her message will kill background tasks randomly Aug 20 10:32:30 :p Aug 20 10:34:39 lol Aug 20 10:39:24 ali1234: but... not in here Aug 20 10:42:17 lcuk: it seems that she doesn't understand how the system works... Aug 20 10:42:45 thp: cool photo! Aug 20 10:42:52 lbt: so, if you explain to me how i can help set up your OBS then i will help you Aug 20 10:43:02 but you're going to have to be a little more specific than last time Aug 20 10:43:42 Venemo, nahh, I think we should add a specific set of functions Aug 20 10:43:56 if user=='Cathy' killtasks (rand() ) Aug 20 10:44:10 ))) Aug 20 10:44:40 ali1234: It is almost ready, just waits for central accounts database and some hardening. Aug 20 10:44:52 lcuk: hehe :D Aug 20 10:45:41 and Stskeeps - your point about the address, thats extremely positive :) Aug 20 10:46:23 well that's the closest I'll ever come to V-Fest Aug 20 10:46:40 thresh: Aug 20 10:46:44 ora-666: ÔÙ ÈÕÊ Aug 20 10:46:55 hey folks. Aug 20 10:46:57 ban thresh!!!!1111ÐÙÝÐÙÝ Aug 20 10:47:09 they keys are, like, next to each other. Aug 20 10:47:24 thresh: french keyboard? Aug 20 10:47:34 russian) Aug 20 10:48:05 but, maybe, it is very romantic, so looks like french. Aug 20 10:50:51 Hello. Are there any plans/roadmaps which Qt Mobility APIs will be part of MeeGo? I see that only these are currently mentioned on Meego.com: Service Framework and Contact and Bearer Management APIs Aug 20 10:51:32 Kypeli: Check the mailing list archives, i seem to remember something about that on the sdk or dev list :) Aug 20 10:51:54 hello, I am looking for a document/page providing complete overview of the MeeGo IVI port Aug 20 10:52:21 leinir: Ok, thanks. I'll try to see what Google gives me Aug 20 10:54:19 looking for IVI features vs the handset/netbook versions Aug 20 10:57:13 Stskeeps: yeah :) usb networking was quite easy to set up with the new image - had no luck with the previous one ;) Aug 20 12:43:40 Im wondering when or if the AMD Athlon II Neo processors will be supported Aug 20 12:45:51 miles_: I already answered that for you Aug 20 12:46:53 it's depending on sse3 support Aug 20 12:47:15 vlj, and ATI Graphics support Aug 20 12:47:34 that's on the list after nokia 3260 Aug 20 12:47:44 nokia 3260 ? Aug 20 12:47:52 and 3310 Aug 20 12:47:59 :p Aug 20 12:50:02 * slaine waves at lcuk Aug 20 12:50:02 oh lol i just figued i would ask the community that moblin has been merged into, i didnt mean any disrespect. i just figured that since meego is the now the new netbook os, since moblin has merged with something else i cant think of at the moment, that this would be a better place to ask and get an idea of whats being done to get support for these processors. sorry if you took me the wrong way. Aug 20 12:50:32 it is the best place to ask alright Aug 20 12:50:42 the #moblin channel is a wasteland Aug 20 12:50:45 slaine, misfire :p luck just joined :P Aug 20 12:51:02 slaine: the ati prop. drivers does not work on meego ? Aug 20 12:51:04 * lcuk waves @ danielwilms \o Aug 20 12:51:06 lcuk, rofl Aug 20 12:51:16 :) Aug 20 12:52:58 Is there a features wishlist that is available to view for meego? i know most major linux distributions have this, its just to tell you what they are trying to put into future releases or the next release. just curious of the future of meego Aug 20 12:54:11 miles_: log a bug Aug 20 12:54:19 as an enhancement request Aug 20 12:54:53 But as a community, we're working towards generic x86 support (check the mail archives for the sometimes heated debates) Aug 20 12:54:57 right now im just talking in general, not to do with the AMD proc Aug 20 12:55:00 miles_, theres a great bug tree available with all the features and things needed for next release, Stskeeps often posts it, I cannot remember hte url Aug 20 12:55:49 miles_: http://bit.ly/bPmkJ2 Aug 20 12:56:19 hmmm Stskeeps thats not the pretty tree?! Aug 20 12:56:44 pretty tree is for n900 Aug 20 12:56:48 or any of the features Aug 20 12:56:49 ahh! Aug 20 12:57:09 so you are saying netbook meego does not get pretty features :p Aug 20 12:57:21 i'm not sure where the netbook features are, tbh Aug 20 12:57:39 that link was exactly what i was looking for. thank you Aug 20 12:57:53 can you post the one for n900 so that if someone goes looking they will see them and perhaps be able to show similar for netbook Aug 20 12:58:23 * Stskeeps should really leave the computer as he seemingily has worked 48 hours this week and relax on the couch Aug 20 12:58:26 :P Aug 20 12:59:30 Stskeeps: Timesheets never work like that IME! :-( Aug 20 13:01:00 slaine: have you made any progress at all? i've managed to build all the toolchain inside my own OBS but i can't figure out how to decouple that from the fedora base i built it against Aug 20 13:01:46 ali1234: pro-tip: copy the built rpms out and 'import' them like a release Aug 20 13:01:51 like the page i showed you Aug 20 13:02:40 ali1234: not yet, not time 'til this product release happens (in final freeze/qa cycle) Aug 20 13:03:53 Stskeeps: that should not be necessary Aug 20 13:03:58 but i will do it anyway Aug 20 13:04:14 vgrade: did you manage to check if non sse3 build does include sse3 opcode ? Aug 20 13:04:54 did anyone bother to check if the base system even includes ssse3 opcodes? Aug 20 13:05:05 that would save you a -lot- of time Aug 20 13:05:14 you knwo what, i'm going to do it right now Aug 20 13:05:29 well it should, otherwise meego would run on non sse3 code Aug 20 13:06:04 Stskeeps: however, glibc is built with -march=core2 -mtune=atom Aug 20 13:06:23 how do you know that ? Aug 20 13:06:34 it's hardcoded in the spec file Aug 20 13:06:42 well Aug 20 13:06:52 ali1234: that's solvable. Aug 20 13:07:00 Stskeeps: everything is solvable Aug 20 13:07:18 the question is, does OBS actually help us solve it, or just make the problem harder? Aug 20 13:07:36 it should help Aug 20 13:07:44 if you can prove there's no ssse3 in the base system, it should help a lot.. Aug 20 13:08:08 i agree, in a percect world, a system designed solely for building software would have no problem dealing with bootstrap issues like this Aug 20 13:08:35 problem is that you're trying to port a higher processor OS with a lower processor machine :) Aug 20 13:08:41 so that makes things initially difficult Aug 20 13:08:51 not really Aug 20 13:08:54 you can build a non sse 3 system with sse3'ed build tool Aug 20 13:08:54 if you actually had a ssse3-capable builder, it would be easier Aug 20 13:08:54 :P Aug 20 13:08:55 I think Aug 20 13:09:01 yeah Aug 20 13:09:03 as long as it does not include static lib Aug 20 13:09:41 this is true Aug 20 13:09:51 but my CPU is an AMD, can't run the ssse3 builder Aug 20 13:09:52 because then you 'just' need to flip the right prjconfs Aug 20 13:10:03 ali1234: qemu ? Aug 20 13:10:11 yeah "flip"ing the prjconfs is unacceptable in my opinion Aug 20 13:10:21 why? Aug 20 13:10:31 like i keep saying, it should be possible to do it with one set of static configs that do not change at any point during the process Aug 20 13:10:49 you know, like an automated build? Aug 20 13:10:55 it would be automated. Aug 20 13:10:56 :P Aug 20 13:11:10 if i have to swap over the prjconfs half way, that's not automated Aug 20 13:11:25 well, the thing is that prjconf swapping is what makes it easier to port Aug 20 13:11:36 can i explain quickly? Aug 20 13:12:04 if swapping over the prjconfs only makes it "easier" then i would rather do it the hard way Aug 20 13:12:12 i mean it's already insanely difficult Aug 20 13:12:20 you're also making it difficult for yourself :P Aug 20 13:12:29 but i am doing it for a reason: Aug 20 13:12:44 i want to produce a reproduceable set of instructions Aug 20 13:13:12 if i shipped a project where you had to edit the makefile half way through the build, you'd say i was an idiot Aug 20 13:13:25 if i said i did it in the name of "making things easier" you would not care Aug 20 13:13:40 it's no excuse Aug 20 13:14:03 apparently nobody else cares about this kind of thing Aug 20 13:14:37 so, if i had a ssse3 capable build machine (or a proof that the base build system doesn't contain ssse3), i would import the binaries from meego straight, set up a prjconf that defaults to non-SSSE3, then start rebuilding base and export these RPMs into MeeGo:Base:nonSSSE3, then, start importing meego source packages and built against that base. Aug 20 13:14:51 this is a similar approach to how we ported meego to ARM. Aug 20 13:15:55 that's moreless what I'm doing to get maven into opensuse Aug 20 13:15:57 from then on, you have a set of packages that serves as foundation for non-SSSE3 meego and can sync with source packages regular.y Aug 20 13:16:37 it isn't dirty nor half-way, it's just bootstrapping. Aug 20 13:16:59 Stskeeps: and it may or may not require a ssse3 build system which i do not have Aug 20 13:17:16 ali1234: right, but it makes it worth checking if the base build system requires it Aug 20 13:17:33 or simply asking anyone if they want to volunteer a ssse3 box to bootstrap initially. Aug 20 13:17:34 ali1234: maybe the builder on build.obs.maemo.org does ? Aug 20 13:18:14 yeah... so while i wait for that to go public, i'll just keep plugging away on my own Aug 20 13:18:20 vlj: you're right, build.obs.maemo.org could do the trick Aug 20 13:18:56 ali1234: you can use opensuse obs Aug 20 13:19:00 ;) Aug 20 13:19:22 vlj: it has ssse3 builders? Aug 20 13:19:34 lbt/X-Fade: any objections to me using community obs to prove a point? :P Aug 20 13:19:42 no idea, but they have a whole farm of builder Aug 20 13:19:49 +s Aug 20 13:20:00 wouldn't they be like, super annoyed if i started uploading several GB of source code and binaries? Aug 20 13:20:07 no Aug 20 13:20:23 well Aug 20 13:20:31 as long as you don't publish them Aug 20 13:20:48 they do prefer packaging from source Aug 20 13:20:51 Stskeeps: i believe that your method would work Aug 20 13:20:54 no need to prove it Aug 20 13:21:00 however, it isn't the same as bootstrapping Aug 20 13:21:12 however ali1234 : it will take a lot of time :/ Aug 20 13:21:30 I mean human time Aug 20 13:22:14 meego is fedora based ? Aug 20 13:22:19 no Aug 20 13:22:20 not any more Aug 20 13:22:27 it's closer to fedora than opensuse though Aug 20 13:22:28 it is what-based ? Aug 20 13:22:32 it is meego based Aug 20 13:22:33 itself Aug 20 13:22:35 :p Aug 20 13:22:59 but it shares some packaging convention with fedora, right ? Aug 20 13:23:18 you can use fedora packages to build meego package on opensuse obs Aug 20 13:23:35 it may work if packages name matches Aug 20 13:23:47 is SSE ok though? Aug 20 13:23:58 just pondering what cflags you're actually targetting Aug 20 13:24:07 vlj: that's what i've been trying to do for 2 days, it doesn't work Aug 20 13:24:09 amd does support sse2 Aug 20 13:24:20 since athlon 64 Aug 20 13:24:27 the packages have same names but files have been moved around Aug 20 13:24:50 so at an intermediate stage, building the chroot is unviable due to package file conflicts Aug 20 13:25:21 * vlj is thinking Aug 20 13:25:38 ali1234: gcc does include sse3 opcde in meego ? Aug 20 13:25:56 no idea Aug 20 13:26:03 i need to go write a script to find out Aug 20 13:26:20 ali1234: if i provide you a set of binary rpms that are meego base in non-ssse3, would you use it? Aug 20 13:26:23 but if we are talking about true bootstrapping, then you don't use any meego binaries at all Aug 20 13:26:23 i would be interest in knowing which files does include sse3 opcode Aug 20 13:26:33 Stskeeps: sure i would Aug 20 13:26:48 but i would still complain about how it is impossible to bootstrap things in OBS Aug 20 13:27:06 it's not impossible, you're just doing it in the wrong way Aug 20 13:27:07 :P Aug 20 13:27:12 until you provide me with a set of project configs that build full meego without using any existing meego binary Aug 20 13:27:32 and without any human intervention, such that at the end i can delete all the built rpms and it will rebuild them all automatically Aug 20 13:27:53 for that matter, show me a project config that can do that for *any* distro Aug 20 13:28:01 that's just impossible - you need to have a base binary system Aug 20 13:28:07 yes Aug 20 13:28:12 you need gcc to build gcc Aug 20 13:28:32 ali1234: did you ever read the writeup by dl9pf_ on how they ported opensuse to ARM? Aug 20 13:28:33 yes, you use the gcc from distro a to build a static gcc for distro b Aug 20 13:28:58 Stskeeps: link pls? Aug 20 13:29:06 sec Aug 20 13:29:25 Stskeeps: you can use any base system you want *except* meego Aug 20 13:29:39 ali1234: why not meego, out of curiousity? Aug 20 13:30:01 Stskeeps: you can use any base system you like to bootstrap any distro you like, as long as they are not the same Aug 20 13:30:13 bootstrap opensuse with fedora if you like Aug 20 13:30:21 you may only use suse srpms, and fedora binaries Aug 20 13:30:34 for suse and fedora substitute any distro you want Aug 20 13:31:26 but remember the whole thing has to run automated, so i only need your project configs and no extra instructions like "after it bombs out, swap the project conf for this other one" Aug 20 13:32:01 ali1234: okay, so, eyes on the price: your goal is non-SSSE3 MeeGo, right Aug 20 13:32:14 that was my goal about 2 weeks ago Aug 20 13:32:30 now it's what exactly? Aug 20 13:32:40 what i just said above ^ Aug 20 13:32:54 bootstrap A using only binaries from B, in an entirely automated way Aug 20 13:32:54 to bootstrap meego in general to a new arch Aug 20 13:32:55 ? Aug 20 13:33:03 the actual OS does not matter Aug 20 13:33:08 nor the arch Aug 20 13:33:19 just to learn how to do this using OBS Aug 20 13:33:34 so, people traditionally cheat. Aug 20 13:33:43 yes, so everyone keeps telling me. Aug 20 13:34:13 anyone tryed xbmc on meego? Aug 20 13:34:21 it doesn't matter what shortcuts you use as long as the whole process is fully automated Aug 20 13:34:38 i weny with http://www.madeo.co.uk/?p=575 but libfaad apparently is still an issue Aug 20 13:34:45 if that means adding features to OBS to automate the cheats, then those features need to be identified and added Aug 20 13:36:05 Phazorx: http://download.obs.maemo.org/home%3a/arfoll/MeeGo_current/ Aug 20 13:36:07 it seems to me that it can be as simple as saying "this project is a bootstrap project so don't inherit anything from it" Aug 20 13:36:24 ali1234: well, that's the 'copying rpms' part Aug 20 13:36:31 to cut the umbilical cord Aug 20 13:36:37 Phazorx: A xbmc repo for meego. Aug 20 13:36:42 X-Fade: i think that's repo i used Aug 20 13:36:46 Stskeeps: right, it could be implemented in OBS Aug 20 13:36:54 and the link i posted is a guide by author Aug 20 13:37:01 but the point is it can't currently be done automatically Aug 20 13:37:10 unless i have been misinformed Aug 20 13:37:49 ali1234: not by API, no Aug 20 13:37:55 on the build OBS itself, it can Aug 20 13:37:56 ali1234: You can have repos building against repos building against repos to probably do that? Aug 20 13:38:20 X-Fade: no you can't because they will all inherit from the very first build target Aug 20 13:38:24 or so i have been told Aug 20 13:38:41 You can 'use for build' those repos? Aug 20 13:39:23 i'm pretty sure "use for build" only affects the building of packages in the same project Aug 20 13:39:31 i could be wrong though Aug 20 13:39:53 anyway, if you guys don't know, then i certainly have no idea at all Aug 20 13:40:13 On the maemo obs, I bootstrapped from other repos. Aug 20 13:40:21 ali1234: normally, we just use other binaries to bootstrap :P Aug 20 13:40:50 Stskeeps: you can use other binaries, as long they come from a different distro :) Aug 20 13:41:07 ali1234: well. opensuse has this devel:base thing, but you need to do things in the right order.. Aug 20 13:41:11 i just think that a decent build system should be able to model these kinds of dependencies Aug 20 13:41:25 well, that gets quickly complicated Aug 20 13:41:28 anyone tried using xbmc on meego and dealt with libfaad? Aug 20 13:41:32 and seperating the umbilical cord is just easier Aug 20 13:41:35 with the rpm jump Aug 20 13:41:43 so make the build system able to do that cut automatically Aug 20 13:42:15 mm Aug 20 13:42:18 not disagreeing with that Aug 20 13:42:20 ali1234: So you want to make it kind of self hosting? Aug 20 13:42:22 it's open source, send a patch? Aug 20 13:42:37 X-Fade: does maemo.org obs require https for api? Aug 20 13:42:45 Stskeeps: yes Aug 20 13:42:52 X-Fade: does obs.maemo.org build non sse3 binaries ? Aug 20 13:43:01 X-Fade: seen Exception RuntimeError: 'maximum recursion depth exceeded' in > ignored Aug 20 13:43:04 before? Aug 20 13:43:12 Stskeeps: no Aug 20 13:43:28 vlj: yes. armv5 and armv7 ;) Aug 20 13:43:29 Stskeeps: i'm pretty sure all it would take is a flag on the project that says "take binaries from this project's repos, but don't inherit from this project's build targets' Aug 20 13:43:44 I mean, i586 build is without sse3 ? Aug 20 13:43:57 ali1234: You can load binary repos. Aug 20 13:44:04 X-Fade: yes. manually Aug 20 13:44:11 X-Fade: manuallt != automated Aug 20 13:44:12 ali1234: So you can export the result of a repo to a dir. Aug 20 13:44:22 ali1234: It scans for changes automatically? Aug 20 13:44:25 ali1234: opensuse build service do that already when building for fedora target Aug 20 13:44:43 X-Fade: it automatically exports the RPMs and loads them into a new detached project? Aug 20 13:45:00 ali1234: yes. Aug 20 13:45:14 Just setup 2 projects unrelated to each other. Aug 20 13:45:14 ok, what do i need to put into the prjconf to tell it to do that for me? Aug 20 13:45:27 it's in prj, not prjconf Aug 20 13:45:36 in the prj then? Aug 20 13:45:55 remember that it has to be fully automated Aug 20 13:46:15 add a Aug 20 13:46:19 ali1234: https://build.obs.maemo.org/project/show?project=Maemo%3AFremantle%3A1.2%3ABootstrap Aug 20 13:46:44 vlj: that's what i've been doing for 3 days, it doesn't work Aug 20 13:46:55 what is the error msg ? Aug 20 13:47:11 vlj: the error message is "oops we inherited a load of FC13 RPMs" Aug 20 13:47:22 it's really quite simple Aug 20 13:47:29 FC13->project A->project B Aug 20 13:47:39 project B will use RPMs from FC13 Aug 20 13:47:47 there is not way to stop it without also breaking project A Aug 20 13:48:00 because of transiting dependencies ? Aug 20 13:48:11 transitive, yes Aug 20 13:48:19 B inherits FC13 from A Aug 20 13:48:22 sorry Aug 20 13:48:26 transitive Aug 20 13:48:38 B needs rpms from A but must not use any from FC13 Aug 20 13:48:43 but A needs rpms from FC13 Aug 20 13:48:57 now you can fix this by building A, changing the prj on A, then building B Aug 20 13:49:02 i'm not saying that can't be done Aug 20 13:49:09 i'm saying it can't be AUTOMATED Aug 20 13:49:25 ie it cannot be encapsulated in the OBS prj files Aug 20 13:49:26 it can be automated if you have access to the OBS Aug 20 13:49:27 :P Aug 20 13:49:29 ie, root Aug 20 13:49:46 yes, by patching OBS to add the missing features, essentially :) Aug 20 13:49:51 it's open source Aug 20 13:49:52 go nuts Aug 20 13:49:53 :P Aug 20 13:50:00 are you providing every "requires" dependencies of package of A ali1234 ? Aug 20 13:50:10 yes Aug 20 13:50:30 it doesn't matter, because it doesn't fail because of broken deps Aug 20 13:50:31 err you have your project on opensuse build service ? Aug 20 13:51:14 it fails because after it compiled e2fsprogs from B but not utils-ng from B, the e2fsprogs from B conflicts with the utils-ng from FC13, they both contain same file Aug 20 13:51:27 at this point you can build any more packages at all because building the chroot fails Aug 20 13:51:31 where is your obs project page ? Aug 20 13:51:39 it's on my private OBS server Aug 20 13:52:15 anyway i think i have made the problem clear Aug 20 13:52:24 i'm going to go and write that script to check for ssse3 Aug 20 13:52:30 ali1234: can you pastebin your prj ? Aug 20 13:52:33 does anyone know what the opensuse meego thing is? does that solve the ssse3 issue perhaps ? Aug 20 13:52:44 vlj: which one? Aug 20 13:52:52 for project B Aug 20 13:53:10 osc meta prj ProjectB Aug 20 13:54:01 vlj: http://pastebin.com/2AZHjTQ5 Aug 20 13:55:35 and prj of home:Admin:test ? Aug 20 13:56:42 http://pastebin.com/stKD7KHq Aug 20 13:56:44 thx Aug 20 13:57:42 remember you're not allowed to edit prj of project A after it has started building Aug 20 13:57:48 now i really have to go write that script Aug 20 13:58:14 I think you should not have named repository of home:Admin:test:test1 Fedora13 Aug 20 13:58:27 i didn't name it fedora_13 Aug 20 13:58:40 it's named that way because it is inherited from test (project A) Aug 20 13:58:57 err Aug 20 13:58:59 I mean Aug 20 13:59:04 you can't remove it without also removeing project A Aug 20 13:59:28 you should not have named the repository of home:Admin:test Fedora13 Aug 20 13:59:38 you should have named it "Meego" for instance Aug 20 13:59:47 i didn't name it that way, it's named that way because that's the way it is named Aug 20 13:59:56 i didn't get to chose a name for it Aug 20 13:59:59 you cannot change the name ? Aug 20 14:00:07 and regardless of what it is called, it still contains the same thing Aug 20 14:00:30 obs sometimes use name of things to "guess" which implicit repo to use Aug 20 14:00:46 it's not a guess, i *want* it to use fedora_13 to build project A Aug 20 14:00:51 if your spec name does contain name of a repo, it will automaticaly build against that repo Aug 20 14:01:10 yup but project A repository is named "Fedora_13" Aug 20 14:01:40 yes, because that's what it is Aug 20 14:01:59 project B repository is called "home_Admin_test_Fedora_13" Aug 20 14:02:07 what does happen if you change by in prj of home:Admin:test ? Aug 20 14:02:32 then home:Admin:test has nothing to build against, so it cannot be built Aug 20 14:03:39 err Aug 20 14:04:01 what if you put home:Admin:test:test1 in another project ? Aug 20 14:04:16 I mean, not a child of home:Admin:test Aug 20 14:04:16 you mean if i call it like home:Admin:test1? Aug 20 14:04:22 yup Aug 20 14:04:23 it makes absolutely no difference at all Aug 20 14:04:28 strange Aug 20 14:04:39 the inheritance is only done based on prj Aug 20 14:04:45 and not subproject heirarchy Aug 20 14:04:46 because there is project inheritance that comes into play Aug 20 14:06:10 did you have a utils-ng package in project A ? Aug 20 14:06:13 probably an odd question, but why do we both have optflags, and gcc45-use-atom.c, which sets the same things? Aug 20 14:06:17 er, .patch Aug 20 14:07:46 vlj: no, project A contains only basic toolchain stuff Aug 20 14:09:03 so why do you install e2fsprogs in B ? Aug 20 14:09:36 vlj: because some rpm it tries to build depends on it, and it has not been built in B yet, so it gets pulled in from FC13 Aug 20 14:10:12 well you need to provides utils-ng and efs2progs in A Aug 20 14:10:50 that won't help Aug 20 14:10:57 it will just cause the same problem to happen in A Aug 20 14:11:09 err Aug 20 14:11:20 what is the exact error message ? Aug 20 14:11:26 can you pastebin the build log ? Aug 20 14:11:50 nope Aug 20 14:12:06 nope ? Aug 20 14:12:44 the exact error message is something like "error installing util-linux-ng-x.y.zfc13.rpm: file /sbin/fdisk conflicts with file from e2fsprogs-x.y.rpm" Aug 20 14:13:08 because in FC13 fdisk lives in util-linux-ng but in meego it lives in e2fsprogs Aug 20 14:13:36 but the point is this kind of thing is to be expected when bootstrapping and it is why you need to break the dependency Aug 20 14:13:46 nobody disputes that Aug 20 14:14:05 the problem is you cannot automate it, it has to be done by hand part way through the build Aug 20 14:14:56 ali1234: adds #!BuildIgnore: util-linux-ng to your specfile Aug 20 14:15:12 that solves the problem for one package out of 900 Aug 20 14:15:44 what happens when i have this problem with something that is absolutely vital to the build? Aug 20 14:15:56 well the issue is that project B is "linked" to FC13 and it should not Aug 20 14:16:14 yes, nobody disputes that Aug 20 14:16:57 well if it's vital to build it must be provided already in your project Aug 20 14:19:15 vlj: and in order to build it, i need a build target to build against, and so we come full circle Aug 20 14:25:57 hey Aug 20 14:26:07 File "/usr/bin/mic-image-creator", line 793, in Aug 20 14:26:12 err Aug 20 14:26:14 damn. Aug 20 14:27:00 I'm getting the File "/usr/bin/mic-image-creator", line 793, in error when using mic2 on opensuse 11.3, google returns a plathora of results but none with a solution beyond "use fedora" Aug 20 14:27:52 can you pastebin the full error? Aug 20 14:27:59 sure Aug 20 14:28:09 that looks like part of a python error, and not the useful part :) Aug 20 14:28:49 http://pastebin.com/CfCbZ6RT Aug 20 14:28:54 that's the full log Aug 20 14:29:21 IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/home/buildadmin/pfi/MeeGo/image/.mic2-zGO7T6.mic2pipe' Aug 20 14:29:32 that's the real error :) Aug 20 14:29:57 okay Aug 20 14:29:58 wait: mic-image-creator: error: no such option: --pipe Aug 20 14:30:07 that's the *real* error Aug 20 14:30:31 okay.. Aug 20 14:30:34 what does that mean? Aug 20 14:30:57 i dunno, you did not show the full command line you used... Aug 20 14:31:10 crap, Aug 20 14:31:12 but i can see it in the log anyway Aug 20 14:31:41 see line 19? Aug 20 14:32:18 http://pastebin.com/idPguyKj Aug 20 14:32:19 whatever command you ran, it just padded it through to /usr/bin/mic-image-creator with the options shown Aug 20 14:32:23 that's the thing with the commandline Aug 20 14:32:28 k Aug 20 14:33:15 well that doesn't make much sense at all Aug 20 14:33:16 is it my command then? Aug 20 14:33:23 ? Aug 20 14:33:27 mic-image-create calls *itself* with an invalid option Aug 20 14:34:05 wonderful Aug 20 14:34:16 should I be using it in this way? Aug 20 14:34:22 no idea Aug 20 14:34:26 why is it in /usr/bin? Aug 20 14:34:33 is it provided by your distro? Aug 20 14:35:12 mic2 from http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/tools/repos/opensuse/11.3/ Aug 20 14:35:24 do the repos provide mic2 0.19? Aug 20 14:35:51 mic2-0.19-1.1.noarch Aug 20 14:36:05 that's what I have installed Aug 20 14:36:18 I mean the repos in the kickstart file? Aug 20 14:36:29 oh Aug 20 14:38:16 no Aug 20 14:39:46 the repo int eh ks file doesn't provide mic2 Aug 20 14:39:48 should it? Aug 20 14:40:21 might explain why it calls itself with invalid args... might be wrong version from the repo Aug 20 14:41:49 yeah thats what I'm saying Aug 20 14:42:08 it's certainly not in the repos :/ Aug 20 14:43:19 jedix: i suggest you look for a bug and if there isn;t one, report it Aug 20 14:45:35 i see a few bugs but none match your symptoms Aug 20 14:46:00 hrm Aug 20 14:46:04 you know what.. Aug 20 14:46:11 sudo mic-image-creator --config=./pfi-3.0.ks Aug 20 14:46:22 then on line 20: '--config=/root/pfi-3.0.ks' Aug 20 14:46:34 /root/pfi-3.0.ks doesn't exist.. Aug 20 14:46:55 well, does it exist? Aug 20 14:47:34 I think it's the sudo that screws it Aug 20 14:47:48 it translates ./ to /root vs where it's being run from Aug 20 14:48:05 probably Aug 20 14:49:06 @vgrade, Hey I am trying out the instructions you posted for Meego on the joggler - the image is booting fine but I don't appear to have any audio or networking - is that normal or have I missed something out ? Aug 20 14:49:54 thanks for the help guys Aug 20 15:04:55 so I got past that issue, but now mic2 doesn't chreate directories before trying to write to them :/ Aug 20 15:06:04 http://pastebin.com/31t7Tm1r Aug 20 15:06:20 if you guys have time to look at another one Aug 20 15:06:30 I should just track down an fc machine. Aug 20 15:07:04 no idea on that one, sorry Aug 20 15:07:10 looks like it can't find some file on the repo Aug 20 15:07:24 well, it's trying to write to the file Aug 20 15:07:29 but it doesn't create the directory Aug 20 15:07:49 so I added a line to create the directory.. it fixes that but hits yet another IOError Aug 20 15:07:50 it's trying to write to /tmp/SampleMedia.tar Aug 20 15:08:01 are you saying you don't have a /tmp? Aug 20 15:08:12 it's writing to (bootstrapdir + "/tmp/" Aug 20 15:08:16 ah yeah Aug 20 15:08:32 well, i have no idea Aug 20 15:08:46 I must be missing something that's supposed to create the tmp dir or the like. Aug 20 15:25:31 well according to my script, there are no ssse3 instructions anywhere in meego :( Aug 20 15:25:44 i think my objdump might not even recognise the instructions Aug 20 15:25:50 or it uses a different name for them Aug 20 15:30:47 I thought there was a compile flag for ssse3 Aug 20 15:30:53 and atom support actually. Aug 20 15:30:58 correct Aug 20 15:31:16 odd, our OBS is reporting successful packages as failed Aug 20 15:31:21 ever see that? Aug 20 15:35:35 timeless: you around? I have a question for you Aug 20 15:37:56 . Aug 20 15:42:57 http://www.nerdbert.com/gentoo/analyse-x86 <- much better script to find used instructions... thanks gentoo :) Aug 20 15:50:32 hi Aug 20 15:51:38 the nokia meego handset image contains two partitions, do i need the second one, i.e. is the second one a swap partition? Aug 20 15:58:32 Is there any way I can buy an Aava Mobile phone? Aug 20 15:59:07 panaggio: preorder, i believe... Aug 20 16:00:14 and how you people (besides "inside" guys) are testing your apps? is the n900 the unique solution? Aug 20 16:01:29 Yeah: http://www.aavamobile.com/cdk-pre-order.php Aug 20 16:01:58 Well, unless you've got some very special needs, you can test it all just fine in the simulator :) Aug 20 16:02:04 panaggio, MeeGo is mostly just for OEMs right now. Aug 20 16:02:12 It's not really ready for app devs. Aug 20 16:02:56 What GAN900 says is entirely true - however you can build apps just fine, just use Qt for it and you'll be good to go :) Aug 20 16:12:32 is fennec the default handset browser? Aug 20 16:12:44 Yes Aug 20 16:13:04 coolio Aug 20 16:14:20 ok, a result. meego 1.0.1 glibc contains 240 ssse3 instructions, and will apparently run on pentium nehalem or better Aug 20 16:14:42 wait, that's for /sbin/sln which lives in glibc rpm Aug 20 16:14:48 this script sure is slow Aug 20 16:41:06 ok, i fixed my grep test Aug 20 17:11:36 DawnFoster: perhaps a prefix in subject line indiciating the project/package in question, so it can be tracked better by everyone Aug 20 17:11:49 DawnFoster: looks really good though Aug 20 17:12:53 stskeeps: that's probably not a bad idea Aug 20 17:13:05 I worry about subject line length though Aug 20 17:13:53 for those who don't know what we're talking about ... Aug 20 17:14:09 I've been putting together some guidelines for contributing code to meego Aug 20 17:14:10 http://wiki.meego.com/Contributing_code_to_MeeGo Aug 20 17:14:11 daw yeah.. it might be useful for metrics too Aug 20 17:14:39 good point Aug 20 17:15:08 stskeeps: you might want to post that feedback to the ML Aug 20 17:15:21 Gives people a chance to agree / object :) Aug 20 17:16:27 Is everything in beta mode now? (i.e feature merge is finished) Aug 20 17:17:03 DawnFoster: yeah, on somewhere where i cant mail, but will do when home Aug 20 17:17:17 stskeeps: cool, thanks Aug 20 17:20:12 will be basic mode of gitorious projects be to not accept MRs then? Aug 20 17:20:16 / default Aug 20 17:21:29 not sure how we're handling details in gitorious Aug 20 17:21:40 :nod: Aug 20 17:21:48 ScottishDuck: i vote for panic Aug 20 17:22:01 keep in min that this is still in the proposal phase Aug 20 17:22:14 people like anas & others might have corrections for me :) Aug 20 17:22:18 hehe Aug 20 17:22:54 I've found that putting something out that is at least close is a great way to "motivate" people to fix it for me Aug 20 17:23:12 if I ask them to write something, I could wait forever Aug 20 17:24:28 yeah, the hardest part of writing a document is starting it.. Aug 20 17:25:45 documentation *shivers* Aug 20 17:45:19 * timoph hates beeing sick Aug 20 17:46:21 wow, there's a lot of packages that are being built on OBS that say they're broken for some reason. Aug 20 17:46:33 * timoph and can't type Aug 20 17:47:04 Has anyone seen bspencer? Aug 20 17:54:22 is meego qemu sdk runs on amd? Aug 20 17:55:12 should do Aug 20 17:55:44 ali1234, http://pastebin.com/VTPfCV8B Aug 20 17:56:07 ali1234, against meego_current on maemo OBS Aug 20 17:56:17 that's the entire build log of glibc? Aug 20 17:56:32 just the end, do you need it all? Aug 20 17:56:55 CosmoHill : you said to me? Aug 20 17:56:58 i need the first couple of hundred lines basically Aug 20 17:57:07 yes Aug 20 17:57:09 up to the point where it starts actually compiling things, i don't need any of that Aug 20 17:57:19 mohan43u: I'm assuming your using an emulator Aug 20 17:57:25 so the VM won't be able to tell what the parent is Aug 20 17:57:32 http://pastebin.com/nhPDhct8 Aug 20 17:57:46 thanks Aug 20 17:58:06 i am running an analysis for ssse3 instructions through out the whole binary repo at the moment Aug 20 17:58:14 CosmoHill : thanks, I'm downloading the images, parallelly reading wiki pages.. just want to ensure things are ok with qemu.. Aug 20 17:59:25 it should be done within the hour Aug 20 18:01:05 ali1234: cool Aug 20 18:01:06 so far i checked about 1500 of 1800 and found 73 contain ssse3 instructions Aug 20 18:01:34 top Aug 20 18:02:24 damit Aug 20 18:03:31 some of these have absolutely no reason to be using ssse3, for example you can't try to tell me that optimizing cross-armv5tel-binutils-2.20.51.0.2-17.1.i586.rpm is going to give any speedup for the average user Aug 20 18:04:15 ah it's onto noarch rpms :) Aug 20 18:04:21 hopefully no false positives from those :) Aug 20 18:04:53 if a noarch requires SSSE3 it's in the wrong place Aug 20 18:05:12 yes, therefore any results would indicate a problem with my script Aug 20 18:05:43 none so far though. so meego core 1.0.1 has 77 rpms that need potentially ssse3 Aug 20 18:06:06 "need"? Aug 20 18:06:15 yes :) Aug 20 18:06:16 i mean it should be in i586 instead of noarch Aug 20 18:06:27 here is the list: http://pastebin.com/hT3B90v4 Aug 20 18:07:39 no pastebin.meego.com ? Aug 20 18:08:15 ali1234: i think all of them are rebuildable to not require ssse3 Aug 20 18:08:24 glibc? Aug 20 18:08:48 glibc what? Aug 20 18:09:02 glibc-2.11.90-18.3.i686.rpm Aug 20 18:09:35 :/ Aug 20 18:09:45 /lib/libc-2.11.90.so Aug 20 18:09:53 specifically that file has 675 uses of ssse3 Aug 20 18:10:18 the current advice from the OBS experts is we should just load up the meego binaries on our non-ssse3 build machines and just hope for the best Aug 20 18:14:51 no false positives from noarch, good Aug 20 18:15:12 good Aug 20 18:26:42 here is the nicely formatted detailed list: http://pastebin.com/eY7xiESS Aug 20 18:28:21 nice one ali1234, pastebins added to http://wiki.meego.com/Devices/nonSSSE3 Aug 20 18:28:43 i find it interesting that xorg uses no ssse3 at all, but the toolchain and libc do Aug 20 18:28:47 if I'm registered on meego.com can I edit the wiki? Aug 20 18:28:54 CosmoHill: yes Aug 20 18:28:57 cool Aug 20 18:31:08 i find it interesting that quite a few things use exactly 240 instructions Aug 20 18:31:22 like /sbin/insmod.static Aug 20 18:32:11 CosmoHill: oh sure, I made you get an account & now you're going to use it for stuff :) Aug 20 18:32:27 sounds like cross-lfs Aug 20 18:32:45 "congrats youre a dev, join this this and this, sign here etc) Aug 20 18:33:38 CosmoHill: ubuntu actually makes you (digitally, with your pgp key) sign an agreement to "be nice" before you can use their build system :) Aug 20 18:34:06 "be nice"? Aug 20 18:34:15 they call it the code of conduct Aug 20 18:34:18 have you seen the number of times I\ve been banned from #cross-lfs? :p Aug 20 18:34:28 http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct Aug 20 18:34:44 maybe it doesn't actually say "be nice" but it might as well Aug 20 18:54:11 DawnFoster, is it correct to assume that questions on the compliance program now go to -community? Aug 20 18:57:17 mdp: I think that sounds like the right place Aug 20 18:58:14 ok, good, already moved there, thx Aug 20 18:58:41 hmm so it turns out my list isn't exhaustive, i didn't check for sse4.1 and sse4.2 instructions, which are also not present on AMD chips Aug 20 18:59:03 (according to wikipedia anyway) Aug 20 19:01:21 hmm trying to boot meego via MMC for first time how long should I wait on "waiting for root device..." seems like it has freezed Aug 20 19:12:07 Evening. Is there some kind of meego qt "Hello world"? Something incl. a desktop icon and rpm stuff? Aug 20 19:22:13 harbaum_: there's http://meego.com/developers/getting-started/create-basic-meego-application, but i don't think its up to date Aug 20 19:22:28 harbaum_: you want to use MeeGo Touch or QML depending on the device, I think Aug 20 19:39:18 eventually, we may want to develop project types for different MeeGo vertical targets (netbook, handset, ivi, etc.) Aug 20 20:18:18 * CosmoHill goes to get a friend from the airport Aug 20 20:35:21 heh, looks like a lot of work for program committee, a lot of good proposals already => difficult to filter out which can't go Aug 20 20:35:24 :P Aug 20 21:10:17 Stskeeps: are the proposals public? Aug 20 21:11:08 of the conference? yes Aug 20 21:11:28 the process of selecting won't be Aug 20 21:11:37 click 'program' on the conference site Aug 20 21:22:44 new report: http://pastebin.com/xGrqMc36 Aug 20 21:23:35 i used the less agressive -d option for objdump this time, and also eliminated some false positives, and added checking for sse4.1 and sse4.2 Aug 20 21:23:49 according to that hardly anything at all is optimized Aug 20 21:24:41 and it looks like those few are pulling in the same static object from somewhere Aug 20 21:25:14 thats the only optimized? Aug 20 21:25:26 i can't say i am 100% confident i am doing this right Aug 20 21:25:39 i know my previous list was wrong though Aug 20 21:25:46 had bugs that i've fixed Aug 20 21:26:58 well, what tool do you use? Aug 20 21:27:06 objdump -d Aug 20 21:27:17 and grep, find, xargs Aug 20 21:27:42 oh and rpm2cpio to unpack them :) Aug 20 21:27:57 i'd expect qt to have ssse3 Aug 20 21:28:05 it showed up in the old list Aug 20 21:28:10 and its not on this list Aug 20 21:28:24 maybe -D is necessary then Aug 20 21:28:49 "Like -d, but disassemble the contents of all sections, not just those expected to contain instructions." Aug 20 21:32:19 ok, -D is finding more of the ones form the old list Aug 20 21:37:51 is there a guide like this for MeeGo: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Extra_Keyboard_Keys_in_Xorg Aug 20 21:38:09 i use setkeycodes to make it works in console Aug 20 21:38:13 and dmesg is happy now Aug 20 21:38:31 but i dont know (or it does not work?) how to make xorg to recognize them Aug 20 21:40:06 ah here we go, picking up stuff from the kernels now Aug 20 21:51:34 i suppose the way to check would be to run this script against fedora Aug 20 21:51:44 if it gets 0 hits then it's probably fairly accurate Aug 20 21:56:07 new report with -D : http://pastebin.com/FTdtzZ9L Aug 20 22:43:48 hmm running my script with -D on opensuse 11.3 rpms, and it is picking up a lot of ssse3 stuff that shouldn't exist Aug 20 22:44:27 i'm beginning to think -d is actually right and nothing uses it except glibc and a few things that static link it Aug 20 23:14:29 Stskeeps: so the result from opensuse was most of the things that show up as "optimized" in meego with -D also show up as "optimized" in opensuse 11.3 with -D Aug 20 23:15:40 with -d the only things that show up as "optimized" in opensuse is mono .dll files Aug 20 23:17:04 so i'm really confused, it really looks to me like meego doesn't use any core 2 specific code out side glibc Aug 20 23:51:14 ali1234, explain -D and -d please Aug 20 23:51:47 odin_: -d : Display the assembler mnemonics for the machine instructions from objfile. This option only disassembles those sections which are expected to contain instructions. Aug 20 23:51:56 -D : Like -d, but disassemble the contents of all sections, not just those expected to contain instructions. Aug 20 23:52:09 from man objdump Aug 20 23:52:10 ah yes am looking at your pasebin Aug 20 23:52:37 1 sec i will paste the logs form opensuse Aug 20 23:53:18 opensuse -d: (just a bunch of mono stuff) http://pastebin.com/xVVjLmHv Aug 20 23:53:24 is the script available to look at ? Aug 20 23:53:48 opensuse -D: woah, everythign is full of ssse3: http://pastebin.com/WjiUdtD0 Aug 20 23:54:00 sure, i will upload script, hang on again Aug 20 23:55:02 Im interested to know as no one has been able to explain how useful SSSE3 is for general purpose code generation (which is the issue, as opposed to specialized code generation, like used already in codecs/crypto/etc...) Aug 20 23:55:56 it could be just that GCC is lame at this time and Intel know what to expect Aug 20 23:57:01 and this is for arch=i586 of opensuse 11.3 ? Aug 20 23:57:52 yeah Aug 20 23:57:59 from the dvd Aug 20 23:58:20 http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/cpucheck.tar.gz Aug 20 23:58:25 ok I have one of those in hand to repeat and verify findings Aug 20 23:59:12 all the clever stuff is done in cpucheck-bin (which operates on a single file), the rest is just for scanning multiple files at once Aug 21 00:00:20 oh tip: insert a tee -a /tmp/foundinstrs into the grep lines in cpucheck-bin Aug 21 00:00:27 then you get a big file with all the lines it found Aug 21 00:00:29 ali1234: when do you sleep? Aug 21 00:00:45 and you can check if they make sense Aug 21 00:00:50 not sure how to check that myself Aug 21 00:01:00 CosmoHill: i'm going to bed very soon :) Aug 21 00:01:05 cool Aug 21 00:01:09 I just got back :) Aug 21 00:01:17 My friend lives in the same road :) Aug 21 00:04:07 am a bit guarded about: rm -rf $TEMP where we hope TEMP is sane, what is "tempfile" my openSUSE not Fedora12 has it Aug 21 00:04:31 odin_: it creates a file in /tmp and prints the name Aug 21 00:04:39 odin_: no warranty! Aug 21 00:04:54 since there is no tempdir, i delete the file and make a directory of same name :) Aug 21 00:05:06 i used it in some other places, but there only as a file Aug 21 00:05:17 ok /tmp/foobar$$ will do me then Aug 21 00:05:30 well, it runs 4 checks in parallel by default Aug 21 00:05:43 so as long as you use unique names... Aug 21 00:05:59 $$=$PID Aug 21 00:06:49 mktemp pls Aug 21 00:07:08 patches welcome Aug 21 00:07:32 mktemp /tmp/$0-XXXXXXX Aug 21 00:07:54 do something like Aug 21 00:07:59 oh god >.< Aug 21 00:08:00 its just an adhoc script, with zero security concern, I just don't have an exe called tempfile and openSUSE "cnf" cant' find it either Aug 21 00:08:02 TMPFILE=`mktemp /tmp/$0-XXXXXXX` Aug 21 00:08:08 I hang out with my mate Aug 21 00:08:21 come home and all hell has broken out on my channel Aug 21 00:08:44 auke: fixed, i still have to rm -rf it at the end tho either way Aug 21 00:08:58 it's a file Aug 21 00:09:07 mktemp is a file? Aug 21 00:09:15 TMPFILE will be Aug 21 00:09:20 don't use -rf Aug 21 00:09:25 -f maybe, not -r Aug 21 00:09:29 so in other words mktempdoes exactly the same thing as tempfile Aug 21 00:09:40 i need a temporary directory Aug 21 00:10:03 so i rm -f $TEMP; mkdir $TEMP; ... ; rm -rf $TEMP Aug 21 00:10:14 TMPDIR=`mktemp -d /tmp/$0-XXXXXXX` Aug 21 00:11:02 and, if possible, don't rm -rf if, just empty out what you put in there and then rmdir it Aug 21 00:11:20 but, that depends on the level of robustness needed :) Aug 21 00:11:25 ok then, rm -rf $TEMP/*; rmdir $TEMP Aug 21 00:11:40 my opensUSE 11.3 DVD does not have glibc-static-2.11.90-18.3.i686.rpm or busybox-1.16.0-3.2.i586.rpm to quote some examples, do the DVDs change after release? Aug 21 00:11:47 that wouldn't do any good Aug 21 00:11:54 so just rm -rf $TMPDIR then Aug 21 00:12:12 odin_: glibc-static-2.11.90-18.3.i686.rpm is from meego Aug 21 00:12:18 (i think) Aug 21 00:12:20 [ -d "$TMPDIR" ] && rm -rf "$TMPDIR" Aug 21 00:12:34 lol, anyway, patches welcome Aug 21 00:12:35 ok I am looking at the wrong pastebin then ? Aug 21 00:12:55 I'd rm $TMPDIR/{$FILE1,$FILE2,...} ; rmdir $TMPDIR Aug 21 00:13:01 i never sent one with glibc from opensuse cos it's in the i686 directory Aug 21 00:13:05 and i only scanned i586 Aug 21 00:13:06 * auke is out Aug 21 00:13:13 bye auke Aug 21 00:13:21 I'm out too Aug 21 00:13:29 I mean i'm here but I have no idea wtf is going on Aug 21 00:14:14 so which things from openSUSE do you think are best to look at ? Aug 21 00:14:28 well, tbh, none of them Aug 21 00:15:08 the point is they all run on an AMD machine, and they all appear to have about the same number of ssse3 stuff as the average meego package, ie none except what could just be some false positives Aug 21 00:16:46 yes this is what I am wanting to check for, false positives, take openSUSE-11.3 xorg-x11-7.5-11.3.i586.rpm /usr/bin/x11perf as an example Aug 21 00:17:19 yep, exact same thing shows up on meego Aug 21 00:17:41 ok but can it be explained and fixed, this way the count goes down on meego to a more correct level ? Aug 21 00:17:42 so what you want to look at is things that show up on -D but not -d Aug 21 00:17:59 it can be, but not by me until i get some sleep Aug 21 00:18:31 actually i'm going to make a mod to cpucheck-bin to make it log all found lines with context Aug 21 00:18:44 then leave it running over night with 1 thread so my computer doesn't catch fire Aug 21 00:19:07 sure cheers Aug 21 00:19:55 I can't get '1' count tho here, on same package version Aug 21 00:20:46 hopefully my tempfile mods probably the cause Aug 21 00:21:25 just make sure that cpucheck-bin runs on individual binaries first Aug 21 00:21:55 you can use the commands independantly to check single bins/rpms Aug 21 00:22:04 ah ok you did -D for listing and script uses -d Aug 21 00:22:13 yeah you have to edit the script Aug 21 00:22:18 forgot to mention that Aug 21 00:25:25 well that is now generating a huge amount of output for me to pick through tomorrow Aug 21 00:25:50 hopefully some CPu expert can tell me if the code is just gibberish (ie not code at all) or real instructions Aug 21 00:27:31 section -d looks at .init .plt .text .fini, this is good enough for me Aug 21 00:28:25 well the meego -d optimizes ... nothing except glibc basically Aug 21 00:29:14 well that sort of mimics my thoughts entirely Aug 21 00:29:43 i noticed that glibc has the core2 CFLAGS hard coded in the spec, while everything else relies on prjconf Aug 21 00:29:44 so intel meego should be called arch=i686-ssse3 Aug 21 00:30:03 it should be called arch=core2 Aug 21 00:30:28 the CFLAGS are -march=core2 -mtune=atom Aug 21 00:30:30 and only glibc (and a few other applications) needs to be built in it Aug 21 00:31:03 sorry I meant arch=i686_ssse3 I don't think core2 is a good name due to the universal domain the label needs to exist in Aug 21 00:31:21 this way ./configure and autoconf can be made to understand i?86* easily Aug 21 00:31:22 well ssse3 doesn't cover it, cos there is sse4.1 too Aug 21 00:31:43 ah but it is guarded or in general purpose use ? Aug 21 00:31:48 s/it is/is it/ Aug 21 00:31:49 odin_ meant: ah but is it guarded or in general purpose use ? Aug 21 00:31:52 don't know Aug 21 00:32:02 the sse4.2 has to be as i understand, because atom doesn't have it Aug 21 00:32:09 but no idea about sse4.1, core2 has that Aug 21 00:32:18 there is no problem with guarded code using CPUID to alter the execution path, there is a problem with GCC using it for general purpose code in the only execution path Aug 21 00:32:31 yeah Aug 21 00:32:47 also... don't let intel confused with eith the difference between --march and --mtune Aug 21 00:32:51 lots of the bins with -D show up with 0 CPUIDs but sse4.2 instructions Aug 21 00:33:02 there is no reason the dist can't be --mtune=atom but --march=i686 Aug 21 00:33:09 yes i know all this :) Aug 21 00:33:19 this way they still get their instruction scheduling optimizations Aug 21 00:33:30 ok sorr Aug 21 00:33:31 y Aug 21 00:33:50 actually eg yafray from opensuse 11.3 has sse4.2 and no cpuid even with -d Aug 21 00:34:02 but that could be a special case with runtime switches to enable opts Aug 21 00:34:08 it is a raytracer after all Aug 21 00:34:15 speed is everything Aug 21 00:34:23 yafray ? are you sure it doesn't check a variable or /proc/cpuinfo ? Aug 21 00:34:36 yeah, that's what i mean with runtime options Aug 21 00:35:03 the guarding mechanism doesn't matter, so just long as its guarded with some mechanism, ya cmdline opts still count as a guard Aug 21 00:35:26 but not one that you can detect automatically, at least not easily Aug 21 00:35:58 well really clever programs will detect ones on startup, then modify all the procedure symbol address locations to reflect the version of the function to run Aug 21 00:36:11 then there is no other code to using specialized code Aug 21 00:42:11 hey DawnFoster Aug 21 00:43:05 hey CosmoHill Aug 21 00:43:12 you're up late (or early) Aug 21 00:43:19 late Aug 21 00:43:30 I think the next time I go out late I'll close my IRC client Aug 21 00:43:40 the chaos that I came back to >.< Aug 21 00:44:21 ha Aug 21 00:44:40 I tend to always leave it running & forget about it Aug 21 00:45:42 very active, stuff about me, people swapping nicks and going "I smell" as someone else etc Aug 21 00:45:55 odin_: with the debug rpms, it should be possible to determine which functions are being optimized right? Aug 21 00:46:25 ali1234, yes but objdump already does basic info, that can help Aug 21 00:46:50 that too, but it needs to be extracted somehow.. still i think this information would be very interesting... Aug 21 00:47:08 ali1234: didn't you say you where going to sleep half an hour ago? Aug 21 00:47:14 yeah i know Aug 21 00:47:38 MeeGo is exciting !!! Aug 21 00:57:24 CosmoHill, you do smell :P Aug 21 00:57:39 either that or its something in the curry I ate tonight in Manchester Aug 21 00:57:59 Or Riiight! Aug 21 00:58:05 I smell good :) Aug 21 00:58:21 heh Aug 21 00:58:25 did you have a good time out? Aug 21 00:58:37 yeah Aug 21 00:58:46 picked him up from the airport and hung out at his afterwards Aug 21 00:58:48 :D bonus Aug 21 00:58:57 had he been far? Aug 21 00:59:16 he went to his girlfriend's prom in ireland (she's ireish) Aug 21 00:59:44 (Irish) Aug 21 00:59:55 that too Aug 21 01:00:05 unless she gets annoyed often Aug 21 01:02:41 no idea Aug 21 01:02:59 my friends have girlfriends and often talk about them but I've never met them Aug 21 01:03:19 in the last 4 weeks I've met 3 of them :o Aug 21 01:04:03 heh Aug 21 01:04:23 it's not like I'm gonna steal them or anything Aug 21 01:05:39 they dont know that! Aug 21 01:05:59 I went to a pre-wedding meal Aug 21 01:06:08 and spent most of the night not able to hear the conversation Aug 21 01:06:37 o_O meego-touch-dev is moderated Aug 21 01:07:11 it's to stop people touching the developers Aug 21 01:07:23 it does explain the low post count Aug 21 01:07:38 if it involves multiple mails per message it would be tedious Aug 21 01:09:38 aparantly my members are surprised I'm awake and online Aug 21 01:10:33 heh it is a little odd, whole composition and mood of irc changes drastically outside normal hours Aug 21 01:11:13 * lcuk2 is hoping to speak with some of the qt devs from Brisbane in the coming days Aug 21 01:11:27 I have two 15 year olds and a 16 year old in the channel Aug 21 01:11:29 fun Aug 21 01:11:44 it's so much quieter when they are offline Aug 21 01:12:19 this is in lfs? Aug 21 01:12:29 yes Aug 21 01:12:43 I don't know if they've ever finished it Aug 21 01:12:52 nice to see young folds getting involved with a deeper linux than just blinging ubuntu Aug 21 01:13:01 folks Aug 21 01:13:14 they've been in the channel for a a year Aug 21 01:13:23 youngest smart person was 13 Aug 21 01:13:26 its always great to see them hacking about on maemo and other misc projects Aug 21 01:13:30 youngest I've had so far was 11 Aug 21 01:13:52 my god I wasnt allowed to play on the street at 11 Aug 21 01:13:57 let alone go on the net on my own Aug 21 01:14:03 when I reconnected with a different nick he thougth I was an impostor Aug 21 01:14:06 (supposing a net existed) Aug 21 01:14:36 so me saying "you're 11" was proof but me changing nicks and becoming moderator wasn't Aug 21 01:15:00 you are an imposter Aug 21 01:15:12 yeah but he doesn't know that Aug 21 01:15:57 that kid was a handful, it was like he had ADHD online Aug 21 01:16:12 think that about you sometimes :P Aug 21 01:16:20 lol Aug 21 01:16:50 at least if you tell me to be quiet I will Aug 21 01:16:51 if otheruser.age maybe I just type quickly :) Aug 21 01:17:18 meh Aug 21 01:17:28 prefer discussion and ideas Aug 21 01:18:10 there's a channel on LFS that I own but never go in. one time there was some touble in there and users PM'd me about it Aug 21 01:18:22 so I did a drive by kick ban Aug 21 01:19:03 heh Aug 21 01:19:34 http://linuxfromscratch.pastebin.com/WK0Q0jJb Aug 21 01:20:18 lol thats cheating Aug 21 01:20:53 is that on freenode? Aug 21 01:21:02 nope Aug 21 01:21:23 didn't think so, I just created the chan entering it Aug 21 01:21:39 it's on it's own server Aug 21 01:21:54 to shelter the newbies from the cruel world that is #linux Aug 21 01:23:06 thats reasonable in its own way Aug 21 01:23:18 * lcuk2 ponders getting his steam account working in linux Aug 21 01:23:29 i have a hankering for half life2 Aug 21 01:23:45 I ran CSS on my linux server once Aug 21 01:23:57 my broadband was the bottleneck Aug 21 01:24:03 i run em too - in firefox :P Aug 21 01:24:24 counterstrike didn't have heavy bandwidth limitations afaik Aug 21 01:24:48 unless you were throttled heavily by other things Aug 21 01:25:14 iirc is was 256Kb/s upload Aug 21 01:25:35 ntl cable? Aug 21 01:25:44 Demon shitanet Aug 21 01:25:48 hah Aug 21 01:26:02 cable had 12k upload for the longest time Aug 21 01:26:09 128 Aug 21 01:26:10 takes 3 days for them to send someone out to plug your connection back in at the exchange Aug 21 01:26:30 yeah they were LLU werent they Aug 21 01:26:31 you should upgrade your router from V3 to V5 Aug 21 01:26:51 oh, the router is fine now Aug 21 01:26:57 wait, you want me to go out and by the 5th hardware version of my router model so you can tell me you don't support netgear Aug 21 01:26:59 we upgraded a while ago Aug 21 01:27:28 "I'm sorry sir but your router doesn't support ADSL2+" Aug 21 01:27:40 "how long has the exchange been ADSL2+?" Aug 21 01:27:51 "3 months" -.- Aug 21 01:27:56 o_O Aug 21 01:28:20 half life 2 was out over 5 years ago Aug 21 01:28:37 I bet if I were to go "I want my Mac address" I'd suddenly get a english person on the phone Aug 21 01:29:43 someone mentioned somewhere that if you say "fuck" to the dell automated service it will rather resignedly tell you its connecting you to a human. not sure how real that is, but made me laugh immensely Aug 21 01:30:30 oh I was using my Nokia 6200c to go to the airport Aug 21 01:30:56 whilst overtaking a weaving caravan I got "please obverse the speed limit" Aug 21 01:31:01 most people use a car, but go on Aug 21 01:31:13 nice Aug 21 01:31:27 I was doing 9erm motorway speeds Aug 21 01:31:39 the nokia n810 has maps with routing and stuff Aug 21 01:31:45 tracy had the american "todd" voice Aug 21 01:31:53 and was eternally amused because it would tell her Aug 21 01:31:58 "surfer dude" was an option for mine Aug 21 01:32:02 "at the traffic circle take the third exit" Aug 21 01:32:06 haha Aug 21 01:32:20 I was driving along at 70mph and had "make a U turn" Aug 21 01:32:27 :D Aug 21 01:32:46 they get irate if you don't listen!" Aug 21 01:32:52 "try to make a u turn where possible" Aug 21 01:32:56 "you missed your turn" Aug 21 01:33:00 "TURN AROUND NOW" Aug 21 01:33:02 I get worried when I have lots of instructions and then nothing for 6 miles Aug 21 01:33:28 i NORMALLY END UP STOPPING WHEN THAT HAPPENS Aug 21 01:33:34 and removing my caps too Aug 21 01:34:15 we were watching some American tv show the other day, and they had an English gps person Aug 21 01:34:21 tracy giggled Aug 21 01:34:22 mine reroutes quickly Aug 21 01:34:31 Tracy? Aug 21 01:34:37 mrs lcuk to be Aug 21 01:34:41 yay Aug 21 01:35:10 heh, after over 15 years we decided this week on a venue, we just have to work out how to get there now Aug 21 01:35:25 teleportation Aug 21 01:35:48 yeah that might be simpler, have to get us to Las Vegas Aug 21 01:36:11 its the only place we could agree on Aug 21 01:36:12 you have kids right? Aug 21 01:36:15 yeah Aug 21 01:36:50 at my uncle's wedding they tried keeping the kids quiet with sweets Aug 21 01:37:28 eep, sweeties and clean wedding clothes dont go well Aug 21 01:37:49 when they were in the car after the wedding we were talking to them Aug 21 01:38:04 youngest came over and accidently hit the close window button Aug 21 01:39:41 * lcuk2 does not sense a problem yet Aug 21 01:40:16 they where 3 and 1.5 Aug 21 01:41:05 hmm mine play with the windows still and they are much older :P Aug 21 01:43:07 Hi, could anyone tell me how to install qmake for the IVI image? Searching for it via the manage software app doesn't show it... And it doesn't seem to be installed by default Aug 21 01:45:19 I am vanishing anyway Aug 21 01:45:23 gnite CosmoHill Aug 21 01:45:29 me too Aug 21 01:45:36 got to be up in 7 hours :o Aug 21 01:45:36 smithna, sorry, dunno and it seems v quiet in here tonight **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Aug 21 02:59:57 2010