**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Aug 27 02:59:57 2010
Aug 27 05:03:44 <hell> as i understand, now we have'nt any public build system for meego?
Aug 27 05:03:53 <bkrawal> which framework/package is used for desktop environment in MeeGo for IVI
Aug 27 05:04:19 <bkrawal> hell: yes it is not
Aug 27 05:04:24 <Kubuntiac> @ hell - I thought I heard that OpenSuse Build service builds for Meego?
Aug 27 05:05:15 <Stskeeps> hell, there's a community builder on the way (still getting published)
Aug 27 05:05:26 <hell> Stskeeps: ah, ok.
Aug 27 05:05:27 <Stskeeps> Kubuntiac: software, not instance :)
Aug 27 05:05:33 <Stskeeps> published=polished
Aug 27 05:06:23 <notslad> OpenSuSE builds for Meego would be *awesome* :^)
Aug 27 05:06:59 <Kubuntiac> Stskeeps: I don't quite get what you mean...
Aug 27 05:08:29 <hell> Stskeeps: as i understand, i will simply wrote an Qt app on my host, and run it with exported DISPLAY, to watch how it looking on MeeGo?
Aug 27 05:08:53 <Stskeeps> Kubuntiac: there's build.opensuse.org and then there's the software build.opensuse.org runs, which MeeGo community and project OBS also uses
Aug 27 05:08:59 <hell> But, how i'll test some specific UI and screen rotating?
Aug 27 05:09:04 <Stskeeps> hell: you'll have to look at the documentation for that, i just oke up :)
Aug 27 05:09:06 <Stskeeps> woke
Aug 27 05:09:20 <hell> i staring at http://wiki.meego.com/Hello_World_-_MeeGo_x86_development_on_Linux
Aug 27 05:09:43 <Kubuntiac> Stskeeps: Ahhh, gotcha
Aug 27 05:30:08 <vilvo> anyone knows if I can have "run command"-dialog without starting terminal in meego? like alt-f2 in kde -> type command I want to run
Aug 27 05:31:06 <vilvo> sure I created shortcut for starting terminal and start it from there but as task switching isn't the snappiest with many windows I'd like to do it without terminal if possible
Aug 27 08:04:01 <vlj> mornin
Aug 27 08:04:14 <vlj> vgrade: so...are the new emgd working ? :)
Aug 27 08:04:32 <Stskeeps> i wish they'd publish rpms, make life easier..
Aug 27 08:05:32 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Aug 27 08:05:37 <vlj> well it's not that hard to make a dkms compliant package
Aug 27 08:05:56 <vlj> but actually is not as easy as installing rpm :)
Aug 27 08:06:00 <vlj> +it
Aug 27 08:15:27 <Stskeeps> morn slaine
Aug 27 08:15:34 <Stskeeps> slaine: seems like EMGD finally got released
Aug 27 08:15:48 <slaine> morning Stskeeps
Aug 27 08:16:20 <slaine> http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/26/samsung-galaxy-tab-gets-video-preview-in-korea/
Aug 27 08:16:33 <slaine> oh dear, computer not doing what I tell it
Aug 27 08:17:01 <slaine> Stskeeps: yes, I was talking to vgrade last night and he pointed me to the page
Aug 27 08:18:19 <arfoll> does the license allow us to make an rpm out of it?
Aug 27 08:18:49 <slaine> that was what was being discussed
Aug 27 08:18:58 <vlj> arfoll: I dont think so
Aug 27 08:19:10 <vlj> well to make a rpm perhaps
Aug 27 08:19:16 <vlj> but not making it on obs :)
Aug 27 08:19:56 <arfoll> So i guess the best we can do is make a script that installs it
Aug 27 08:19:59 <Stskeeps> just put the tarball next to the .k
Aug 27 08:20:00 <Stskeeps> s
Aug 27 08:20:03 <Stskeeps> we did that on joggler
Aug 27 08:21:07 <vlj> it would be nice to have dkms in meego too
Aug 27 08:21:24 <vlj> so that when you update kernel, you don't end up with a black xorg
Aug 27 08:22:02 <vlj> I encounter the same issue with nvidia chipset too, when upgrading kernel, the nvidia kernel module does not work
Aug 27 08:22:07 <vlj> so I need to recompile it
Aug 27 08:22:28 <vlj> would be great if it was automated
Aug 27 08:22:46 <Stskeeps> i suppose you could technically do something with 'build'
Aug 27 08:24:39 <vlj> ?
Aug 27 08:24:52 <vlj> what do you mean ?
Aug 27 08:25:37 <Stskeeps> well, or just import kernel-netbook-devel and run a local rpmbuild..
Aug 27 08:27:37 <vlj> yup but that is not obvious for people not accustomed with rpm building
Aug 27 09:08:34 <gizmomogwai> hello,
Aug 27 09:09:43 <gizmomogwai> i try to build a meego images for vbox or vmware from a kickstart file, everything seems ok, but when i boot the images in virtualbox or vmware i get vesamenu.c32: not a COM32R image. any idea what the problem is?
Aug 27 09:32:15 <daisy21> hello, can someone tell me if when using the netbook image you get a default user experience ie just an xterm, clock....do I need to install something to get the fancy UX?
Aug 27 09:34:24 <daisy21> anyone?
Aug 27 09:39:19 <Surfa> daisy21, yes
Aug 27 09:39:33 <vilvo> daisy21: netbook image gives you fancy UX, it's very nice out of the box, I've been using it for work this week and am very happy with it
Aug 27 09:39:59 <vilvo> </ad> :)
Aug 27 09:40:03 <Surfa> not saying that it's very fancy or extraordinarily good looking, but there are necessary bells and whistles
Aug 27 09:40:26 <daisy21> yes I have seen it alright but I am only getting the clock and xterm
Aug 27 09:40:39 <Surfa> that's weird
Aug 27 09:40:47 <daisy21> Do I need to install something else to get the fancy bells and whistles?
Aug 27 09:40:50 <Surfa> nope
Aug 27 09:40:57 <vilvo> can anyone tell if we could use #meego logging bot(?) to log #meego-qa-tools?
Aug 27 09:41:01 <Surfa> they should be installed out of the box
Aug 27 09:41:24 <Stskeeps> vilvo: can be done, but my usual bot is acting up
Aug 27 09:41:28 <Stskeeps> vilvo: will set up a working thing later today
Aug 27 09:41:35 <vilvo> thanks Stskeeps
Aug 27 10:00:16 <saft> hi ppl
Aug 27 10:03:00 <saft> would it be possible to install meego instead of andorid on an HTC Desire with andro kernel and propper firmware? its like install linux on any other mashine right?
Aug 27 10:03:23 <thiago_home> no
Aug 27 10:03:26 <thiago_home> that's an ARM machine
Aug 27 10:03:43 <TermanaN900> saft, its not really like installing linux on any other machine
Aug 27 10:03:56 <TermanaN900> But it is possible with software rendering
Aug 27 10:03:58 <ali1234> it's like installing linux on any other *ARM* machine
Aug 27 10:04:16 <saft> meego works on arm right?
Aug 27 10:04:36 <ali1234> btw desire has hw3d
Aug 27 10:04:43 <saft> and if it would be compiled for the right cpu its ok?
Aug 27 10:04:46 <thiago_home> saft: yes
Aug 27 10:04:47 <CosmoHill> salut
Aug 27 10:04:48 <thiago_home> yes
Aug 27 10:04:55 <TermanaN900> ali1234, your not really correct there either. Porting and installing is different on each device
Aug 27 10:04:56 <thiago_home> using the proper flasher tool, it's easy
Aug 27 10:04:58 <thiago_home> do you have it?
Aug 27 10:05:00 <ali1234> it's already compiled for the right cpu
Aug 27 10:05:16 <ali1234> TermanaN900: "either" lol
Aug 27 10:05:24 <ali1234> TermanaN900: don't you ever get tired of being wrong?
Aug 27 10:05:51 <TermanaN900> ali1234, while there is hardware 3D acceleration in the Desire it is incompatable with MeeGo
Aug 27 10:05:54 <saft> you could mod the bootloader to start a meego bootloader starting in the end meego
Aug 27 10:06:03 <thiago_home> saft: meego also requires an OpenGL ES 2 driver
Aug 27 10:06:07 <ali1234> TermanaN900: that's a fault of meego, not linux
Aug 27 10:06:10 <saft> ic
Aug 27 10:06:13 <thiago_home> is that available for the device?
Aug 27 10:06:51 <saft> well the Desire has all needed drivers in the linux kernel (+firmware)
Aug 27 10:06:57 <saft> so its a software issue
Aug 27 10:07:04 <TermanaN900> ali1234, NO - its the fault of Qualcomm for only making the userspace part of the driver work with Android's SurfaceFlinger
Aug 27 10:07:26 <thiago_home> so can you install the kernel module on a 2.6.35 stock kernel?
Aug 27 10:07:59 <saft> as i read in the forums they mod 2.6.34 kernels
Aug 27 10:08:04 <thiago_home> stock kernel
Aug 27 10:08:06 <ali1234> thiago_home: yes, QSD 3d drivers have an open source layer
Aug 27 10:08:08 <thiago_home> no patches to the kernel
Aug 27 10:08:20 <ali1234> you can recompile it for any kernel you want
Aug 27 10:08:28 <thiago_home> good
Aug 27 10:08:34 <thiago_home> how about the GLX driver?
Aug 27 10:08:50 <saft> but for what sould you want 35 if it works good on 34?
Aug 27 10:08:59 <thiago_home> why should you settle for an older kernel?
Aug 27 10:09:02 <saft> besides bugfix
Aug 27 10:09:31 <thiago_home> anyway, 34 and 35 are not important
Aug 27 10:09:44 <thiago_home> so do you have access to the OpenGL ES 2 driver for X11?
Aug 27 10:09:50 <saft> does it has any improvments affekting the Desire hardware?
Aug 27 10:09:51 <Stskeeps> thiago_home: i think it's backed by Mesa actually
Aug 27 10:10:01 <Stskeeps> thiago_home: there's DRI/DRM/EXA in their xorg driver
Aug 27 10:10:09 <thiago_home> Mesa has DRI yes
Aug 27 10:10:21 <Stskeeps> like, on the qsd 3d
Aug 27 10:10:24 <thiago_home> saft: it has improvements, so why not use them?
Aug 27 10:10:41 <saft> of course if it has you should use it
Aug 27 10:11:14 <thiago_home> anyway, if you can launch X.org on the device and that offers GLX with GL ES 2, you should be fine
Aug 27 10:11:15 <saft> but thats not the point
Aug 27 10:11:21 <ali1234> https://www.codeaurora.org/gitweb/quic/xwin/
Aug 27 10:11:41 <saft> they have started debian and ubuntu on the desire
Aug 27 10:12:24 <Stskeeps> saft: yes, but no glesv2
Aug 27 10:12:25 <Stskeeps>  :P
Aug 27 10:13:00 <Stskeeps> ubuntu is easier as it's 'just' gnome, but newer graphics toolkits needs more juie
Aug 27 10:13:08 <Stskeeps> just like 3d is used for composition
Aug 27 10:13:27 <ali1234> Stskeeps: which graphics toolkits would those be? Qt? nope, don't think so
Aug 27 10:13:43 <thiago_home> Qt
Aug 27 10:13:46 <Stskeeps> ali1234: if you want to use something along the lines of qml, you'll need it
Aug 27 10:13:59 <thiago_home> technically neither Qt nor Qt Quick require GL
Aug 27 10:14:06 <thiago_home> they just perform much better with it
Aug 27 10:14:09 <thiago_home> same for MTF
Aug 27 10:14:27 <Stskeeps> i kinda wonder why mtf is so slow in sw rendering at times though
Aug 27 10:14:56 <thiago_home> because it was designed on hardware with GLESv2
Aug 27 10:15:08 <Stskeeps> then again, i didn't try with -arch armv6
Aug 27 10:15:11 <jani> Stskeeps: running compositor ?
Aug 27 10:15:24 <ali1234> Stskeeps: why does QML need accelerated rendering?
Aug 27 10:15:33 <jani> pkill -9 compositor # instant speed  increment =)
Aug 27 10:15:34 <thiago_home> ali1234: to be faster
Aug 27 10:15:39 <thiago_home> ali1234: if you accelerate, it's faster
Aug 27 10:15:40 <ali1234> faster than what?
Aug 27 10:15:42 <Stskeeps> jani: no, just plain libmeegotouch, but i haven't researched it recently.
Aug 27 10:15:56 <ali1234> also how does accelerated graphics make your XML parser run faster?
Aug 27 10:16:24 <jani> Stskeeps: atleast for me, without compositor -software rendering is atleast decent.
Aug 27 10:16:41 <ali1234> hmm looks like QML isn't even a subset of XML
Aug 27 10:16:43 <Stskeeps> ali1234: same way openvg accelerated helps your vector graphics rendering, freeing up cpu time..
Aug 27 10:16:54 <thiago_home> ali1234: the accelerated graphics make the graphics go faster
Aug 27 10:17:18 <Stskeeps> as in, draw operations are quicker to finish
Aug 27 10:17:35 <ali1234> and what does this have to do with QML in particular?
Aug 27 10:17:49 <Stskeeps> did you see the typical qml interfaces? :P
Aug 27 10:18:04 <ali1234> does QML benefit more than other ways of specifying the interface?
Aug 27 10:19:16 <thiago_home> have you seen the typical QML interface or not?
Aug 27 10:19:23 <ali1234> like this you mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQkXdzMyGns
Aug 27 10:19:47 <thiago_home> no, more like the flickr demo
Aug 27 10:20:15 <ali1234> so QML is capable of making interfaces that "regular" Qt cannot?
Aug 27 10:20:24 <thiago_home> QML is Qt, so everything it can do, Qt can
Aug 27 10:20:34 <ali1234> so what exactly is your point?
Aug 27 10:20:44 <thiago_home> the point is that QML and MTF both make heavy use of effects and animations
Aug 27 10:20:52 <thiago_home> those are much faster with HW-acceleration
Aug 27 10:20:52 <ali1234> as does regular Qt
Aug 27 10:20:55 <thiago_home> no
Aug 27 10:20:58 <ali1234> if you chose to use them
Aug 27 10:21:03 <thiago_home> yeah
Aug 27 10:21:17 <thiago_home> the point being that MTF chose to use them, and it's easy to choose to use them in QML
Aug 27 10:21:22 <thiago_home> not so much in plain Qt
Aug 27 10:21:43 <thiago_home> so the interfaces made for MeeGo rely heavily on composition, effects and animations
Aug 27 10:21:52 <thiago_home> that's why they are slow with software rendering
Aug 27 10:22:00 <ali1234> which is why meego relies on graphics acceleration
Aug 27 10:22:07 <ali1234> not because "the toolkit needs it"
Aug 27 10:22:30 <thiago_home> 12:12 < thiago_home> technically neither Qt nor Qt Quick require GL
Aug 27 10:22:30 <thiago_home> 12:12 < thiago_home> they just perform much better with it
Aug 27 10:23:37 <ali1234> and also, not even QML *needs* acceleration
Aug 27 10:23:56 <ali1234> it only needs acceleration to make a certain type of UI on a certain type of hardware
Aug 27 10:24:00 <saft> so the desire would need a GL driver to work smoth with meego
Aug 27 10:24:51 <ali1234> saft: it won't work at all without a GL driver
Aug 27 10:25:05 <saft> but the desire seem to have HC as it is able to render google earth
Aug 27 10:25:16 <thiago_home> saft: yes
Aug 27 10:25:22 <thiago_home> what's HC/
Aug 27 10:26:15 <saft> typo HA, hardware accelaration
Aug 27 10:26:20 <saft> sorry
Aug 27 10:28:28 <thiago_home> is that GL?
Aug 27 10:28:36 <thiago_home> and is that accessible from X via GLX?
Aug 27 10:29:16 <saft> i dont know
Aug 27 10:29:56 <saft> it uses GL
Aug 27 10:29:59 <ali1234> checking...
Aug 27 10:30:02 <saft> just googled ^^;
Aug 27 10:30:21 <saft> Android includes support for high performance 3D graphics via the OpenGL API — specifically, the OpenGL ES API.
Aug 27 10:32:44 <saft> what else would you need to get X working on it?
Aug 27 10:33:05 <ali1234> X already works on it
Aug 27 10:33:21 <ali1234> you need a GLX driver for meego however
Aug 27 10:33:38 <Stskeeps> or dri to be exact
Aug 27 10:33:50 <ali1234> even the old msm driver has dri
Aug 27 10:34:13 <Stskeeps> my problem is that i can't find exactly what it supports and not :P
Aug 27 10:35:22 <ali1234> i had a link to the source before, can't find it now
Aug 27 10:36:25 <saft> arend the ARM chips similar? so wouldnt the meego (n900) driver work on it?
Aug 27 10:36:26 <ali1234> https://www.codeaurora.org/gitweb/quic/la/?p=kernel/msm.git;a=tree;f=drivers/gpu/msm;h=dcacc55d835348f71454784c0e32b819424af4be;hb=refs/heads/android-msm-2.6.32
Aug 27 10:36:53 <ali1234> that's the snapdragon 3d driver
Aug 27 10:37:02 <ali1234> no idea how to tell if it works with GLX or whatever
Aug 27 10:37:18 <Stskeeps> yeah, except that's not a 3d driver as such as it's coupled with a userspace driver
Aug 27 10:37:25 <ali1234> yes
Aug 27 10:37:35 <Stskeeps> and the question is if that userspace driver is 'just' the xf86-video-msm one
Aug 27 10:43:57 <saft> hmmm the n900 has a powervr gpu the desire a adreno 200 gpu
Aug 27 10:44:32 <saft> sounds like a dead end...
Aug 27 10:47:40 <saft> hmmm n900 has the better GPU.... so the effekts would work propper at all
Aug 27 10:48:15 <vlj> slaine vgrade Stskeeps ali1234 : do new emgd drivers work ?
Aug 27 10:48:22 <hell> Stskeeps: so, where i can read about right way to develop on SDK? I'd like to see some toolchain like qtcreator->cross-compiller with sdk env -> debug on target qemu. Is it possible?
Aug 27 10:48:35 <ali1234> vlj: i have no way to test them sorry
Aug 27 10:48:44 <Stskeeps> vlj: didn't test them yet
Aug 27 10:48:49 <Stskeeps> hell: yes, but under development
Aug 27 10:48:55 <ali1234> i just downloaded them because i couldn't figure out why a linux driver was being delivered in a 100mb windows exe file
Aug 27 10:49:11 <ali1234> i still don't understand it, probably never will :)
Aug 27 10:49:58 <hell> Stskeeps: toolchain is under development? Or "way"? I understand, that finally rpm will build by obs
Aug 27 10:50:24 <Stskeeps> hell: worth checking out wiki.meego.com/SDK
Aug 27 10:50:35 <Stskeeps> hell: and yes, that path is under development
Aug 27 10:51:09 <hell> Stskeeps: i already run qemu image.
Aug 27 10:51:14 <arfoll> anyone know how to exctract the exe under linux?
Aug 27 10:51:26 <Stskeeps> hell: said path ;)
Aug 27 10:51:34 <hell> but, there are i686 kernel based, wich strange for me)
Aug 27 10:51:38 <ali1234> arfoll: i used wine
Aug 27 10:51:45 <hell> i think, it will be ARM
Aug 27 10:52:34 <arfoll> ali1234, grumbl don't want wine on my box... was hoping there was an alternative to cabexctract or unzip that would work...
Aug 27 10:52:53 <saft> maybe 7zip
Aug 27 10:53:17 <saft> it can handel selfextrakting .exe files
Aug 27 10:54:04 <arfoll> saft, no doesnt work
Aug 27 10:54:39 <saft> other way is vmware or vbox ;)
Aug 27 10:56:21 <arfoll> was there actually any annoucement or is it another mistake like the rpm?
Aug 27 10:56:30 <arfoll> \
Aug 27 10:56:36 <ali1234> i guess this IEMGD_HEAD_Linux.tgz is the file you want?
Aug 27 10:57:04 <hell> Stskeeps: so, how i will develop now? Run qtcreator under sdk?
Aug 27 10:57:14 <arfoll> ali1234, probably is that where the linux driver is?
Aug 27 10:57:20 <vlj> emgd are not redistribuable
Aug 27 10:57:24 <ali1234> arfoll: looks like it
Aug 27 10:57:28 <Stskeeps> hell, sorry, not the guy with the answers..
Aug 27 10:57:39 <hell> ok)
Aug 27 10:58:08 <arfoll> ali1234, i installed it using wine, where is the .tgz?
Aug 27 10:58:27 <punit> can we resize carrick-connection-panel in standalone mode
Aug 27 10:58:32 <ali1234> .wine/drive_c/IEMGD/IEMGD_1_0/plugins/Pre_Packaged.Drivers_1.0.0/Linux
Aug 27 10:58:32 <arfoll> found it
Aug 27 10:59:01 <Stskeeps> any rpms there?
Aug 27 10:59:01 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 27 10:59:24 <arfoll> Stskeeps, still dreaming huh?
Aug 27 10:59:28 <ali1234> there is some GPL code in this tarball
Aug 27 11:00:26 <Stskeeps> kernel driver, naturall
Aug 27 11:00:26 <Stskeeps> y
Aug 27 11:00:31 <ali1234> yes
Aug 27 11:00:45 <ali1234> and then there is the accelerated Xorg servers for meego 1.0 and fc11
Aug 27 11:00:50 <vlj> according to the intel licence, agp code and drm code is GPL too
Aug 27 11:00:57 <vlj> ... if you are an OEM
Aug 27 11:01:24 <vlj> I don't know if intel know the real meaning of "GPL"
Aug 27 11:02:51 <ali1234> license.txt at top of the tgz says: http://pastebin.com/LM47aBVi
Aug 27 11:03:00 <ali1234> i take that to mean the whole tgz is redistributable
Aug 27 11:03:35 <vlj> ok
Aug 27 11:03:42 <arfoll> ali1234, there are like 3 different licenses
Aug 27 11:03:47 <ali1234> hmm yeah
Aug 27 11:04:22 <arfoll> the BSD one is fine, but the other one grants you a one end user license and dissalows the use of the driver on non intel HW
Aug 27 11:04:41 <Stskeeps> well, gma500 is intel hw
Aug 27 11:04:41 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 27 11:04:58 <ali1234> yeah, it wouldn't work on anything else?
Aug 27 11:05:03 <arfoll> I just find it funny that they think anyone would want to use their crappy driver on anything else!
Aug 27 11:05:25 <vlj> maybe you can "steal" the sgx part of the driver to run on another hw
Aug 27 11:05:36 <Stskeeps> doubt it
Aug 27 11:05:42 <ali1234> if you are an "Independent Software Vendor" then the whole license applies, which appears to allow you to redistribute it
Aug 27 11:07:51 <arfoll> " You may copy the Software onto a single computer for your personal, noncommercial use, and you may make one back-up copy of the Software, subject to these conditions"
Aug 27 11:08:05 <ali1234> arfoll: that's for end users
Aug 27 11:08:21 <arfoll> if you're an OEM the whole license applies. I take that to meaning all the clauses
Aug 27 11:09:12 <hell> hm, handheld qemu image X does not listen tcp.
Aug 27 11:17:57 <CosmoHill> hey tekojo
Aug 27 11:18:11 <tekojo> Hi CosmoHill
Aug 27 11:31:42 <mmc> is __MEEGO__ #defined? when running gcc?
Aug 27 11:32:08 <thiago_home> no
Aug 27 11:32:12 <thiago_home> MeeGo is not an OS
Aug 27 11:57:25 * CosmoHill is trying (and apparently failing) to tell something it's /etc and not /ect
Aug 27 11:58:02 <nazgee> logout
Aug 27 11:58:06 <CosmoHill> huzzah! Success!
Aug 27 12:09:23 <hell> all of my qt test apps, builded an runned on SDK VM showed as black rectangle
Aug 27 12:09:37 <hell> wtf?
Aug 27 12:11:49 <hell> simple qt mainwindow from Create Qt Application wizard
Aug 27 12:13:26 <Stskeeps> hell: handset UX?
Aug 27 12:15:21 <hell> Stskeeps: i thought, that ux will decorate my window, without any body moves?
Aug 27 12:15:44 <Stskeeps> hell: there's a bug that affects xterm too
Aug 27 12:16:56 <X-Fade> hell: Click on the 'home' button. Do you see your app in the dashboard?
Aug 27 12:17:20 <hell> X-Fade: yeah, some terrible zoomed snapshot
Aug 27 12:17:28 <hell> *some kind of
Aug 27 12:18:09 <X-Fade> hell: yeah, known issue. Annoying though :)
Aug 27 12:20:04 <hell> i run my app by $ DISPLAY=:0 testproj, that is simple qmainwindow. May be some example exists? mannequin will be good enough
Aug 27 12:30:27 <hell> hm, i see some differences in code. But in my SDK there are no MApplication; MApplicationWindow and etc M* includes(and other dev-package contents?)
Aug 27 12:40:57 <ali1234> Stskeeps: can you please give me that OBS link again for importing binaries, i lost it, and can't find it on the wiki
Aug 27 12:44:07 <ali1234> Stskeeps: nvm found it
Aug 27 12:45:55 <vgrade1> Vlj, on a cliem
Aug 27 12:47:01 <vgrade1> Vlj, on a client site today so have not tried the new emgd. Interesting point regarding the tgz license conditions
Aug 27 12:49:40 <vgrade1> Also, what is the definition od an independant software vendor. Can i put an image up for download.
Aug 27 12:53:35 <vlj> ok
Aug 27 12:57:36 <hell> what is on top of package managment system in meego? yum?
Aug 27 12:57:44 <thiago> or zypper
Aug 27 12:57:48 <thiago> I don't know which one it is now
Aug 27 12:58:16 <vlj> both are there
Aug 27 12:58:19 <vlj> both works
Aug 27 12:58:37 <hell> ah, only zypper in my image.
Aug 27 12:58:38 <vlj> at least both works better than the ui front end for package management
Aug 27 12:58:39 <hell> thnx
Aug 27 13:02:07 <adeus> hmmh
Aug 27 13:02:09 <adeus> Error: failed to create image : Failed to apply configuration to image
Aug 27 13:02:18 <adeus> and nothing else
Aug 27 13:22:06 <ali1234> hmm this actually seems to be working
Aug 27 13:26:58 <ali1234> are there any instructions for dual booting meego on netbooks?
Aug 27 13:43:48 * thiago realises that "libmeegotouch" matches "ibm"
Aug 27 13:44:15 <w00t_> thiago: I think you just gave me nightmares
Aug 27 13:44:18 <w00t_> :-)
Aug 27 13:44:59 * thiago was searching for some AIX information on his emails and all the MTF emails turned up
Aug 27 13:48:25 <vlj> what is mtf ?
Aug 27 13:48:39 <thiago> MeeGo Touch Framework
Aug 27 13:48:43 <thiago> a.k.a. libmeegotouch
Aug 27 13:49:02 <vlj> ok
Aug 27 13:52:04 <hell> thiago: oh shit, i was read all google db for MTF source code)))
Aug 27 14:02:17 <ali1234> so i tried to build meego 1.0.1 glibc using only meego 1.0.1 bins. it didn't work: http://pastebin.com/Ffyu85DW
Aug 27 14:02:37 <ali1234> i didn't get any illegal instruction, it failed because of rpmlint right at the end
Aug 27 14:03:00 <Stskeeps> oh, right, i forgot to give you those non-ssse3 base system binaries
Aug 27 14:04:17 <ali1234> it failed because of things like:
Aug 27 14:04:20 <ali1234> glibc-devel.i686: E: summary-ended-with-dot (Badness: 89) C Object files for development using standard C libraries.
Aug 27 14:04:44 <ali1234> seems to me that this has nothing at all to do with the build system or arch :)
Aug 27 14:04:50 <Stskeeps> http://download.obs.maemo.org/home:/stskeeps:/ssse3_bootstrap/current/ , 80.248.164.206 api.obs.maemo.org downloads.obs.maemo.org
Aug 27 14:04:52 <ali1234> the packages are just broken
Aug 27 14:04:54 <vlj> remove the . at the end of %summary
Aug 27 14:04:56 <Stskeeps> if host doesn't work
Aug 27 14:04:57 <vlj> err
Aug 27 14:05:08 <Stskeeps> ^ have fun
Aug 27 14:05:15 <vlj> you should have Summary: something-about-glibc .
Aug 27 14:05:21 <ali1234> vlj: yes i know
Aug 27 14:05:21 <vlj> remove the trailing .
Aug 27 14:05:25 <X-Fade> Stskeeps: Hosts have proper dns entry now.
Aug 27 14:05:29 <Stskeeps> ah
Aug 27 14:05:30 <Stskeeps> well then
Aug 27 14:06:20 <ali1234> vlj: i know i can fix it, but i don't understand how silly things like that can even get into a released package
Aug 27 14:07:47 <vlj> ali1234: this is not a blocking error
Aug 27 14:07:58 <vlj> it does not prevent package from being built and released in obs
Aug 27 14:08:13 <ali1234> vlj: i see, it just says failed... but it still made a rpm?
Aug 27 14:08:21 <vlj> yup
Aug 27 14:08:35 <vlj> in /var/tmp/buildroot/usr/src/packages/RPMS/*/
Aug 27 14:08:52 <ali1234> i am using OBS
Aug 27 14:09:07 <vlj> obs builds the rpm, then installs them, then test them with rpmlint
Aug 27 14:09:22 <ali1234> it didn't put the rpm into my repository
Aug 27 14:09:30 <ali1234> in fact it didn't even create the repository
Aug 27 14:09:34 <vlj> well see if they are published
Aug 27 14:09:39 <ali1234> how?
Aug 27 14:09:43 <vlj> err
Aug 27 14:09:49 <vlj> you running local OBS ?
Aug 27 14:09:51 <ali1234> yes
Aug 27 14:09:56 <vlj> in the web ui
Aug 27 14:10:10 <vlj> click on the repository you want
Aug 27 14:10:23 <vlj> it should display available binariy rpm
Aug 27 14:10:34 <ali1234> it says "no published binaries"
Aug 27 14:10:43 <ali1234> i guess that is pretty clear
Aug 27 14:11:03 <vlj> hm
Aug 27 14:11:14 <ali1234> it created all the rpms and then rejected them due to rpm lint
Aug 27 14:11:15 <vlj> and does obs reports that build "failed" ?
Aug 27 14:11:19 <ali1234> yes it does
Aug 27 14:11:38 <vlj> in opensuse obs such error are not blocking ... :/
Aug 27 14:11:53 <ali1234> well i copied the meego project configs like i'm supposed to
Aug 27 14:12:05 <ali1234> what else can i do?
Aug 27 14:12:25 <vlj> except if error badness are above a certain treshehold
Aug 27 14:12:34 <ali1234> 8 packages and 0 specfiles checked; 4 errors, 106 warnings.
Aug 27 14:12:37 <vlj> threshold
Aug 27 14:12:47 <vlj> what are the other error ?
Aug 27 14:13:39 <ali1234> 4x summary ends with a dot
Aug 27 14:13:43 <ali1234> the other errors are not listed
Aug 27 14:14:08 <ali1234> wait there was only 4
Aug 27 14:14:15 <vlj> is there a "error badness excedded 10000, test aborted " ?
Aug 27 14:14:21 <ali1234> no
Aug 27 14:47:28 <Stskeeps> auke: ping
Aug 27 15:24:39 <DawnFoster> lbt: ping
Aug 27 15:30:50 <lbt> DawnFoster: no time right now... can you ping me when I'm home in ~1hr
Aug 27 15:31:08 <DawnFoster> sure - ping me when you get there - no hurry
Aug 27 15:33:52 <RST38h> Quesion: I have got two files (Image.c and Console.c) that qmake refuses to see. They are included as SOURCES in the .pro file, but the resulting Makefile does not mention them
Aug 27 15:33:59 <RST38h> Any idea what may be wrong?
Aug 27 16:08:10 <slaine> ali1234: that all sounds horribly familiar
Aug 27 16:08:42 <ali1234> slaine: whassat?
Aug 27 16:08:56 <slaine> the proper way actually not working
Aug 27 16:09:00 <ali1234> lol
Aug 27 16:09:05 <ali1234> yeah i know
Aug 27 16:09:08 <slaine> same problems with moblin 2.0 and 2.1
Aug 27 16:09:13 <slaine> spec files that where broken
Aug 27 16:09:36 <ali1234> well i just went out and bought some big USB flash drives so i can actually install on my netbook now
Aug 27 16:09:50 <ali1234> you better believe i am going to report each and every one of these bugs that i can reproduce on a real meego install
Aug 27 16:10:05 <ali1234> because i'm tired of hearing "it would work if you do it properly"
Aug 27 16:10:19 <ali1234> and then spending 3 days doing it "properly" only to find out that it doesn't work their either
Aug 27 16:10:41 <slaine> I ran into exactly the same issues
Aug 27 16:11:04 <slaine> did it all "the right way" to only find I had exactly the same errors
Aug 27 16:11:43 <slaine> which I then found out had been manually worked around  and pushed out anyway and possible fixed in the 2.2 software, which I couldn't get a hold of because it was all inhouse
Aug 27 16:11:50 <slaine> That was when I gave up
Aug 27 16:12:54 <ali1234> what do you think would be the best way to go about this?
Aug 27 16:13:12 <slaine> keep raising the issue
Aug 27 16:13:15 <ali1234> that is, if i want to make bug reports against source packages, what method do you think i should use to test?
Aug 27 16:13:22 <ali1234> oh i want to do that :)
Aug 27 16:13:36 <slaine> for the new stuff I've no idea
Aug 27 16:13:43 <ali1234> but i want to do it in a way that leaves absolutely no possible way for developers to blame me for "doing it wrong"
Aug 27 16:13:49 <Stskeeps> ali1234: what rpm do you use? and meego-rpm-config?
Aug 27 16:14:02 <slaine> I used my own scripts, I used mock and I used the ocs build command
Aug 27 16:14:12 <slaine> this is for moblin stuff
Aug 27 16:14:23 <slaine> I've not had the time to get to trying the same with meego yet
Aug 27 16:14:30 <ali1234> Stskeeps: i used all rpms from meego 1.0.1, source rpm of glibc from 1.0.1, and the project config that you guys are supposedly using on the community obs
Aug 27 16:14:50 <Stskeeps> ali1234: no, rpm and meego-rpm-config package
Aug 27 16:14:58 <ali1234> Stskeeps: i used the ones from meego 1.0.1
Aug 27 16:15:05 <Stskeeps> ok
Aug 27 16:32:17 <DavidGilson> Hello - I've been trying to build an MeeGo kernel for my N900, although zImages files are no longer online for either the open or closed Nokia versions, and when I try to build a kernal from a KickStart file it always fails because it's trying to pull files from the http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/ tree, because it isn't there. Can any suggest an alternative?
Aug 27 16:32:48 <ali1234> Stskeeps: do the trunk rpms work on AMD for building?
Aug 27 16:33:03 <ali1234> i mean if i import the official ones, not your builds
Aug 27 16:33:25 <slaine> only if they don't exec ssse3 instructions
Aug 27 16:33:31 <ali1234> yes yes, i know this :)
Aug 27 16:33:32 <Stskeeps> ali1234: i did on maemo obs but some odd errors
Aug 27 16:33:35 <slaine> hehe
Aug 27 16:33:41 <ali1234> slaine: did you miss the whole past week? ;)
Aug 27 16:33:48 <slaine> I think so
Aug 27 16:33:59 <ali1234> slaine: i have a script that can detect ssse3 instructions on a whole set of rpms
Aug 27 16:34:06 <ali1234> but it can't tell me if they are guarded or not
Aug 27 16:34:13 <slaine> Yeah, I saw
Aug 27 16:34:33 <DawnFoster> hey DavidGilson!
Aug 27 16:35:04 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: inside the -tar there's a vmlinuz :)
Aug 27 16:35:38 <ali1234> Stskeeps: as long as you didn't hit any "ileegal instruction" then i would be inclined to think that any odd errors were bugs that need reporting
Aug 27 16:35:43 <DawnFoster> stskeeps: was that really directed at me?
Aug 27 16:35:51 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: err, no
Aug 27 16:35:54 <Stskeeps> pizza got in the way
Aug 27 16:35:59 <DawnFoster> ha!
Aug 27 16:36:02 <slaine> Hmmm, pizza
Aug 27 16:36:07 <Stskeeps> DavidGilson: instide the -tar there's a vmlinuz
Aug 27 16:36:48 <DawnFoster> Geez, now I'm in the mood for pizza and it's only 9:30am here. Thanks, stskeeps
Aug 27 16:37:47 <Stskeeps> at least it's friday ;)
Aug 27 16:38:28 <DavidGilson> Stskeeps - vmlinuz = zImage ?
Aug 27 16:38:41 <Stskeeps> yes
Aug 27 16:40:48 <timoph> hmmmh.. pizza :p~
Aug 27 16:48:09 <DavidGilson> Thanks
Aug 27 16:50:33 <DawnFoster> DavidGilson: did you get what you needed?
Aug 27 16:52:32 <DavidGilson> For now, I haven't had time to check
Aug 27 17:12:12 * lbt is back DawnFoster
Aug 27 17:22:44 <DawnFoster> hey lbt
Aug 27 17:23:10 <DawnFoster> lbt: did you see Tero's response to the community OBS question
Aug 27 17:23:45 <DawnFoster> any technical reasons we can't just link it to the maemo build server and do the builds there?
Aug 27 17:24:05 <DawnFoster> rather than putting the proprietary stuff in our OBS
Aug 27 17:24:59 <DawnFoster> lbt: also, I put some items on the community office agenda for you. Need to confirm you can attend and present them: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Meetings#Next_CO_meeting
Aug 27 17:25:10 <Stskeeps> builds would have to happen on meego.com builder, but binaries would be pulled in temporarily over a network link
Aug 27 17:25:11 <lbt> I did see it
Aug 27 17:25:18 <Stskeeps> (you can't export builds to another obs)
Aug 27 17:25:38 <Stskeeps> .. or can we
Aug 27 17:26:22 <DawnFoster> It's cleaner is we can store the proprietary bits elsewhere and have a clear process to do the builds via pulling over a network link or whatever
Aug 27 17:26:26 <lbt> I admit I'm not thrilled.... :)   I think I really want to see Maemo fully integrated into MEeGo
Aug 27 17:26:35 <lbt> this is "arms length" stuff
Aug 27 17:26:51 <lbt> which I feel is not what Maemo community deserves
Aug 27 17:27:09 <DawnFoster> but I'm sure you understand the issues with allowing non-open code on the open source infrastructure
Aug 27 17:27:09 <lbt> but that wasn't the question :)
Aug 27 17:27:18 <lbt> no actually
Aug 27 17:27:29 <lbt> many distros support nvidia blobs
Aug 27 17:27:40 <lbt> I'd agree if this was an FSF initiative
Aug 27 17:27:44 <lbt> do we do GPL3?
Aug 27 17:27:52 <Stskeeps> lbt: there is one major blocker here.. sgx and possible 3rd party libs not owned by nokia
Aug 27 17:28:00 <Stskeeps> lbt: so a link would be needed
Aug 27 17:28:08 <lbt> *nod*
Aug 27 17:28:24 <lbt> why?
Aug 27 17:28:32 <lbt> would we be distributing them?
Aug 27 17:28:44 <lbt> or simply providing them in the build chroot
Aug 27 17:29:02 <Stskeeps> lbt: i mean if the actual binaries were inside a OBS project on the meego servers
Aug 27 17:29:13 <DawnFoster> lbt: if they're on our servers, yes we would be "distributing"
Aug 27 17:29:27 <lbt> DawnFoster: if they never leave your server?
Aug 27 17:29:28 <DawnFoster> in this case without a license to do so (most likely)
Aug 27 17:29:50 <lbt> (although I admit a "local build" causes issues there)
Aug 27 17:30:00 <DawnFoster> I think so, but we'd need someone with more legal guidance to give the ok
Aug 27 17:30:06 <Stskeeps> i am bordering towards that a OBS link to a nokia-owned server is the organisationally most sound
Aug 27 17:30:23 <DawnFoster> I
Aug 27 17:30:26 <DawnFoster> oops
Aug 27 17:30:30 <lbt> again... I'm talking about providing all the binaries that a normal "scratchbox" install provides
Aug 27 17:30:35 <lbt> no more
Aug 27 17:30:36 <lbt> no less
Aug 27 17:30:43 <Stskeeps> :nod:
Aug 27 17:30:44 <lbt> for Fremantle only
Aug 27 17:30:52 <DawnFoster> I want to find a solution that allows the maemo community to do what they need to do
Aug 27 17:30:52 <lbt> not MeeGo on Fremantle
Aug 27 17:31:03 <lbt> which is an admirable but discrete target
Aug 27 17:31:05 <DawnFoster> but without taking a step back on openness in the project
Aug 27 17:31:17 <lbt> *nod*
Aug 27 17:31:25 <Stskeeps> lbt: is there anything wrong with a obs link that can be added by agreeing to an eula?
Aug 27 17:31:45 <Stskeeps> i mean, versus locally hosted binaries
Aug 27 17:31:45 <lbt> ah... that way around
Aug 27 17:32:01 <Stskeeps> i'm just wondering if we're on the same page of what's actually being suggested
Aug 27 17:32:23 <lbt> I thought the idea was to build against obs.maemo.org which would link to cbuild.meego.com
Aug 27 17:32:25 <Stskeeps> if i was to set it up, i would have Fremantle:free on meego obs and that building against maemo.org:Fremantle:non-free
Aug 27 17:32:49 <lbt> hmm
Aug 27 17:32:50 <DavidGilson> Hi I asked before about getting MeeGo on the N900 - Just downloaded the MeeGo code drop .tar.gz file as advised, but when I opened it, there wasn't an image and image file, there was a whole Linux OS directory tree inside instead.
Aug 27 17:33:00 <Stskeeps> DavidGilson: hmm, get one of our weekly releases
Aug 27 17:33:16 <lbt> Stskeeps: sounds similar to DoD
Aug 27 17:33:20 <lbt> ut not
Aug 27 17:33:28 <Stskeeps> lbt: well, DoD doesn't work
Aug 27 17:33:28 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 27 17:33:32 <lbt> I know
Aug 27 17:33:33 <Stskeeps> or at least didn't in the past
Aug 27 17:33:41 <lbt> still on todo AFAIK
Aug 27 17:33:52 <Stskeeps> lbt: would osc build know to fetch from obs.maemo.org directly?
Aug 27 17:34:19 <lbt> that was what I was wondering
Aug 27 17:34:21 <lbt> no
Aug 27 17:34:29 <Stskeeps> i have seen those 'look at X server for binary'
Aug 27 17:34:34 <DavidGilson> Stskeeps - Just to avoid confusion on my part - would you mind giving me a link to weekly builds please? Ideally, I'd like to build the closed source version, but the files required by Kickstart are not available on the MeeGo repo server.
Aug 27 17:34:42 <Stskeeps> DavidGilson: yes, gladly
Aug 27 17:35:01 <lbt> I can build against meego.com_live inside nokia without needing a meego.com account
Aug 27 17:35:31 <lbt> so the meego.com would pull them in, cache them and serve them
Aug 27 17:35:34 <lbt> distribution
Aug 27 17:35:49 <Stskeeps> it actually caches from links?
Aug 27 17:35:59 <lbt> yes.... it would also be building using closed libraries on meego.com
Aug 27 17:36:07 <Stskeeps> 1.0.80.16.20100824.1
Aug 27 17:36:08 <lbt> exactly as if we imported fremantle
Aug 27 17:36:13 <Stskeeps> DavidGilson: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php , 1.0.80.16.20100824.1
Aug 27 17:37:24 <DavidGilson> Stskeeps - Many thanks - Do I understand correctly that this is only to be run from a MicroSD card, or can the internal drive be flashed instead?
Aug 27 17:37:29 <Stskeeps> DavidGilson: microsd only
Aug 27 17:38:10 <DavidGilson> Understood & many thanks
Aug 27 17:38:28 <lbt> DawnFoster: I think we should start with "we want moving from Maemo community builds to MeeGo community builds to be as painless as possible"
Aug 27 17:38:49 <lbt> the objective is about getting all the maemo devs into MeeGo
Aug 27 17:39:14 <lbt> we have a golden opportunity to do that with Fremantle and Harmattan
Aug 27 17:39:18 <Stskeeps> lbt: ok, really dodgy solution: cbuild accepts EULA, hence can build against these binaries for maemo development. to get access to m5 non-free, you go to nokia page, agree to eula and indicate your cbuild username..
Aug 27 17:39:41 <lbt> yes exactly
Aug 27 17:39:41 <Stskeeps> lbt, that sends off a request to cbuild that it's ok to add the target.
Aug 27 17:39:57 <Stskeeps> ..
Aug 27 17:40:06 <Stskeeps> you know what, i'll go read exactly how the eula reads
Aug 27 17:40:18 <lbt> but that process gives you read access to the meego.com cache of the fremantle binaries
Aug 27 17:40:25 <DawnFoster> lbt: it just sounds like there are some technical solutions that we should pursue that solve the goal of allowing people to build what they need without putting the closed source stuff on the meego infrastructure
Aug 27 17:40:37 <lbt> people don't have access to the cbuild passwd file :)
Aug 27 17:40:51 <DawnFoster> lbt: maybe we can focus on these for now
Aug 27 17:41:07 <DawnFoster> make it easy for people to move over from maemo but still keeping meego clean
Aug 27 17:41:16 <RST38h> Pardon my ignorance, but can
Aug 27 17:41:17 <lbt> DawnFoster: I don't like focusing on technical solutions without having a clear objective
Aug 27 17:41:20 <lcuk> DawnFoster, another alternative is to add motivation to the Licensing change request queue.
Aug 27 17:41:27 <RST38h> 't you build Meego apps locally?
Aug 27 17:41:32 <Stskeeps> RST38h: yes
Aug 27 17:41:39 <lcuk> so that the closed components effecting projects isnt an issue
Aug 27 17:41:56 <lcuk> because they would no longer be closed
Aug 27 17:42:12 <lbt> lcuk: I don't care about "Licensing change request queue" for fremantle
Aug 27 17:42:13 <lbt> it's dead
Aug 27 17:42:21 <DawnFoster> lbt: the objective is to allow Maemo community builds for MeeGo to be as painless as possible without putting closed source binaries on the open source infrastructure
Aug 27 17:42:37 <lcuk> but opening the blockers would allow moving forward with open versions of the components you think are blocking
Aug 27 17:42:51 <DawnFoster> lbt: you have been one of the people hammering on us to be open :)
Aug 27 17:43:00 <Stskeeps> which is why it pains us to even have to push this :)
Aug 27 17:43:08 <DawnFoster> i just don't want to take a step back
Aug 27 17:43:10 <lbt> DawnFoster: "the objective is to allow Maemo community to build for *Fremantle* as painlessly as possible without putting closed source binaries on the open source infrastructure"
Aug 27 17:43:18 <DawnFoster> lbt: yep
Aug 27 17:43:33 <DawnFoster> nice clarification
Aug 27 17:43:35 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: i think we can agree there shouldn't be closed source on the infrastructure, but the problem is if we have problems with caching and temporary storage
Aug 27 17:43:42 <Stskeeps> from a legal pov
Aug 27 17:44:09 <Stskeeps> or if people do a 'local build' in which cbuild would send on the binaries (proxying)
Aug 27 17:44:19 <lbt> DawnFoster: I am passionate about getting MeeGo to be a success .... and that means bringing maemo onboard
Aug 27 17:44:34 <lbt> I would kick and scream if MeeGo closed anything
Aug 27 17:44:35 <DawnFoster> I'm less concerned about caching, but if that's an issue we could chat with some lawyers about it
Aug 27 17:44:49 <Stskeeps> lbt: is there a way to deny local builds?
Aug 27 17:44:54 <DawnFoster> lbt: I completely agree about bringing Maemo on board
Aug 27 17:45:02 <DawnFoster> lbt: no argument there at all
Aug 27 17:45:15 <lbt> Stskeeps: it's code... but not trivial
Aug 27 17:45:17 <DawnFoster> lbt: I just want to make sure we do it the best way possible
Aug 27 17:45:35 <Stskeeps> then again
Aug 27 17:45:40 <DawnFoster> lbt: without compromising MeeGo values
Aug 27 17:45:54 <lbt> DawnFoster: *nod* ... the thing is ...this is not MeeGo code being closed. It's the same as MeeGo downloads including an nvidia blob
Aug 27 17:46:00 <DawnFoster> lbt: if none of the technical solutions we've been talking about works
Aug 27 17:46:04 <lbt> or the N00 blobs
Aug 27 17:46:08 <DawnFoster> lbt: we can cycle back
Aug 27 17:46:11 <Stskeeps> lbt: so, stepping back a little bit: what's wrong with the 'meego api' only one?
Aug 27 17:46:30 <lbt> Stskeeps: will it build all of extras-dev today with no code changes
Aug 27 17:46:50 <lbt> I want to migrate autobuilder to OBS
Aug 27 17:46:58 <Stskeeps> lbt: mmm
Aug 27 17:46:59 <lbt> before H launches
Aug 27 17:47:06 <DawnFoster> lbt: I'm just saying that it sounds like we have some potential solutions that haven't been fully explored, but would meet our objective. I'd like to start there.
Aug 27 17:47:37 <Stskeeps> lbt: does extras-devel work with even the binaries atm?
Aug 27 17:47:50 <lbt> DawnFoster: we have limited resource. Some of the objections are philosophical but not consistent with other activity.
Aug 27 17:47:56 <lbt> Stskeeps: yes.
Aug 27 17:48:34 <lbt> DawnFoster: so I am wary of spending many man-days on this when that equates to elapsed weeks and more
Aug 27 17:48:36 <Stskeeps> lbt: can we make an experiment to see how much doesn't work when we don't have non-free included?
Aug 27 17:48:47 <ali1234> one thing i don't understand... what closed stuff do you actually need in the build root?
Aug 27 17:48:55 <DawnFoster> lbt: maybe we can talk to Tero about resources, but this was originally his suggestion
Aug 27 17:49:03 <Stskeeps> ali1234: there's a bunch of closed fremantle apis, including gles..
Aug 27 17:49:05 * lbt stabs Tero ;)
Aug 27 17:49:06 <ali1234> i mean sure you need SGX to *run* things, but you don't need it at build time... or do you?
Aug 27 17:49:07 <Stskeeps> gles can be replaced
Aug 27 17:49:47 <lbt> ali1234: the idea is that you get an "almost scratchbox" chroot
Aug 27 17:50:18 <Stskeeps> lbt: my perspective is the opposite of extras-devel, where we would provide extras-devel 2.0, where people would drop in their meego api apps and it would build for m5, m6 and meego
Aug 27 17:50:28 <Stskeeps> with extras-devel we don't get this benefit, i feel
Aug 27 17:50:41 <Stskeeps> people have benefit cos fremantle isn't 'left behind' with apps
Aug 27 17:51:09 <lcuk> sounds reasonable!
Aug 27 17:51:31 <Stskeeps> because we can't take extras-devel and put it to meego, in fact, it'd be a mess
Aug 27 17:51:31 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 27 17:51:39 <lbt> why?
Aug 27 17:51:55 <Stskeeps> well, ok, let's say extras-devel to H then, .. it's deb too
Aug 27 17:51:55 <lbt> what does "put it to meego" mean?
Aug 27 17:52:00 <Stskeeps> hrm
Aug 27 17:52:03 <Stskeeps> build for meego
Aug 27 17:52:13 <lbt> no. of course not :)
Aug 27 17:52:15 <lbt> but.
Aug 27 17:52:27 <lbt> all the devs would be on OBS
Aug 27 17:52:29 <lbt> all of them
Aug 27 17:52:47 <lbt> at that point, barrier to meego is almost 0
Aug 27 17:52:58 <lbt> that's my goal
Aug 27 17:53:06 <Stskeeps> mm.
Aug 27 17:53:20 <lbt> and actually. Maemo closes the autobuilder
Aug 27 17:53:36 <lcuk> w000t qgil is checking on sharing services licensing change request \o/  https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11128#c5
Aug 27 17:53:37 <lbt> Fremantle builds fully (communiyt) supported on OBS
Aug 27 17:53:37 <povbot> Bug 11128: Opening the source for Sharing services framework
Aug 27 17:54:11 <lbt> does that give you a clearer non-tech target Stskeeps? Am I missing something?
Aug 27 17:54:23 <lbt> back in 5 ... ordering dinner :)
Aug 27 17:54:47 <Stskeeps> lbt: it does put things a little bit in perspective
Aug 27 17:55:42 <ali1234> all the apps in maemo autobuilder should have a list of dependencies right?
Aug 27 17:56:09 <ali1234> anybody done any analysis on that to see what people are using and what they are not using?
Aug 27 17:57:16 <Stskeeps> ali1234: not a bad idea..
Aug 27 17:57:35 <ali1234> i could do some scripts if you think it would be helpful
Aug 27 17:57:45 <lbt> "Fremantle builds fully (communiyt) supported"
Aug 27 17:58:07 <lbt> so doing a Freemantle target would benefit ;)
Aug 27 18:02:03 <ali1234> how big is http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/ before i start downloading it all :)
Aug 27 18:02:52 <ali1234> looks like potentially several gigabytes
Aug 27 18:03:17 <thiago_home> probably
Aug 27 18:03:27 <thiago_home> but extras-devel has a lot of unmaintained stuff, I guess
Aug 27 18:03:54 <ali1234> is everything in extras automatically in extras-devel, or do they get removed when they get promoted?
Aug 27 18:31:50 <CosmoHill> salut trem
Aug 27 18:31:59 <trem> hello CosmoHill
Aug 27 18:32:35 <DawnFoster> lbt: btw, can you attend the community office meeting on Tuesday? http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Meetings
Aug 27 18:32:44 <DawnFoster> lbt: since you are on the agenda :)
Aug 27 18:59:30 <ali1234> in date/time properties my time zone is set to new york, and "system clock uses UTC" is selected
Aug 27 18:59:37 <ali1234> so why does meego think it is 7pm?
Aug 27 19:00:07 <slaine> Because in UTC it is 7pm ?
Aug 27 19:00:18 <ali1234> this is true
Aug 27 19:00:31 <ali1234> so in new york it is not 7pm
Aug 27 19:00:53 <ali1234> no matter what it is doing, it is wrong :)
Aug 27 19:01:26 <slaine> :)
Aug 27 19:01:52 <ali1234> i selected the correct time zone (europe/london) and now it thinks it is midnight
Aug 27 19:02:49 <slaine> And selecting back to new york gives you 7pm again ?
Aug 27 19:03:07 <slaine> sounds like your system clock is well off
Aug 27 19:03:26 <ali1234> i went back into the time zone settings and "system clock uses UTC" is now NOT checked
Aug 27 19:03:42 <slaine> might need to force the current time with the correct locale
Aug 27 19:03:58 <ali1234> the system clock was correct before i booted into the live system
Aug 27 19:04:04 <ali1234> my guess is:
Aug 27 19:04:25 <slaine> Oh this is your build
Aug 27 19:04:32 <slaine> how did you solve the rpm issues
Aug 27 19:04:36 <ali1234> no, this is meego 1.0 live image
Aug 27 19:04:43 <ali1234> directly from meego.com
Aug 27 19:04:46 <slaine> oh, damn
Aug 27 19:04:48 <slaine> :)
Aug 27 19:05:13 <ali1234> so yeah, i think meego can't actually handle "system clock uses UTC"
Aug 27 19:06:02 <slaine> Or couldn't, possible addressed in 1.0.1 or 1.0.2
Aug 27 19:06:10 <DawnFoster> I think that was in an update
Aug 27 19:06:18 <slaine> (I have that setting enabled and have had no issues)
Aug 27 19:06:27 <ali1234> argh i tried to set the clock proeprly, now my mouse has stopped working
Aug 27 19:06:55 <ali1234> switching vt fixed it... lol
Aug 27 19:07:02 <ali1234> this is *very* buggy
Aug 27 19:07:31 <DawnFoster> ali1234: as are most 1.0 releases :)
Aug 27 19:07:43 <DawnFoster> the 2 updates fixed a bunch of stuff
Aug 27 19:07:56 <ali1234> funny thing is it doesn't look all that different from moblin :)
Aug 27 19:09:13 <ali1234> should i build a 1.0.2 image and install from that?
Aug 27 19:09:20 <ali1234> or 1.0.1
Aug 27 19:10:06 <slaine> There was no rollup release
Aug 27 19:10:11 <ali1234> i'm not sure i trust 1.0 to write to my fixed disk, if it can't even manage to not mess up the clock :)
Aug 27 19:10:22 <ali1234> i can build one with mic though right?
Aug 27 19:10:23 <slaine> you could make an upto date image using mic2 and the public repos
Aug 27 19:10:28 <ali1234> or is that just for arm builds?
Aug 27 19:11:02 <slaine> I've it installed on my dell mini9 since 1.0 release and it's gotten better with 1.0.1
Aug 27 19:11:09 <slaine> didn't notice much change to 1.0.2
Aug 27 19:12:20 <ali1234> hmm so one thing i really liked about maemo 5 was the skype integration... are we going to see some more of that with meego? they did release their SDK thing recently...
Aug 27 19:12:25 <slaine> and yes, the netbook release is very moblin-esque, it's essentially what moblin 2.2 was going to be with some extra enhancements
Aug 27 19:12:40 <slaine> Did that actually happen ?
Aug 27 19:12:49 <slaine> I know they where talking about it
Aug 27 19:12:50 <ali1234> yeah a few weeks ago
Aug 27 19:12:55 <ali1234> libskype basically
Aug 27 19:13:04 <slaine> but I seem to recall the release was going to be to a few special people at first
Aug 27 19:13:05 <ali1234> closed of course, but you can integrate it into any gui you like
Aug 27 19:13:11 <ali1234> ah yeah it might still be closed beta
Aug 27 19:13:28 <slaine> yeah, I wouldn't mind doing my own UI for that on our units in work
Aug 27 19:13:39 <CosmoHill> hey slaine
Aug 27 19:13:44 <slaine> hey
Aug 27 19:13:46 <ali1234> i just want it to work with pidgin or empathy on desktop
Aug 27 19:13:59 <ali1234> and whatever telepathy UI we get on meego
Aug 27 19:14:32 <ali1234> still i bet some meego developers are in the closed beta... skype had a very large presence at the last maemo summit
Aug 27 19:15:18 <ali1234> could even be a development from the same code base they used on maemo 5
Aug 27 19:16:09 <slaine> they did moblin ui at one point, but that was for the older moblin 1.0 release ( which was basically Ubuntu mobile for all intents and purposes)
Aug 27 19:16:18 <zumbi_> hi! i am trying meego, looks quite nice, but i had a couple problems. 1) I was connecting to an account on empathy and closed the window and it did not get me back to the desktop environment. 2) I am unable to find the switch to install new applications (like skype), looking at help.meego.com pages it redirects me to garage, but there is no option to install software
Aug 27 19:16:19 <Stskeeps> and hildon
Aug 27 19:16:21 <Stskeeps> which was funny :)
Aug 27 19:16:40 <zumbi_> can i use unity desktop over meego?
Aug 27 19:16:43 <ali1234> slaine: on maemo 5 skype is integrated with all the other protocols, you never see a "skype app" (unless you install it
Aug 27 19:16:51 <slaine> nice
Aug 27 19:17:06 <ali1234> you can barely even tell the different between a skype call and a phone call
Aug 27 19:17:15 <ali1234> and it supports video too
Aug 27 19:17:20 <zumbi_> ali1234: maemo 5 was very cool
Aug 27 19:17:25 <ali1234> it's probably the best version of skype on any linux :)
Aug 27 19:17:54 <slaine> we let customers install skype on our units but have to go through all sorts of hoops with libwnck to control how it appears on our touchscreen units
Aug 27 19:17:55 <slaine> pita
Aug 27 19:18:13 <Stskeeps> hehe
Aug 27 19:18:14 <DawnFoster> zumbi_: netbook? (I assume)
Aug 27 19:18:46 <zumbi_> DawnFoster: aspire one
Aug 27 19:19:05 <ali1234> so yeah, here's hoping that they do as good a job integrating skype into meego as they did with maemo 5...
Aug 27 19:19:10 <DawnFoster> zumbi_: not sure about that first question - when you put your mouse up in the top of the screen, you should get the panel bar where you can click on myzone, which is essentially the home screen
Aug 27 19:19:38 <DawnFoster> zumbi_:  This might help http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_1.0_Netbook_FAQ
Aug 27 19:19:44 * slaine puts on the Sheik Yerbouti album and gets to work
Aug 27 19:19:49 <DawnFoster> zumbi_: it has links to installing skype, for example
Aug 27 19:20:08 <zumbi_> DawnFoster: i'll try again, i had to go to C-F1 and kill empathy, that fixed it
Aug 27 19:20:10 <slaine> You can also press the Windows key
Aug 27 19:20:18 <slaine> to get the toolbar to display
Aug 27 19:20:42 <zumbi_> DawnFoster: ok, but it is annoying i can not have more than one window at a time on meego
Aug 27 19:20:44 <DawnFoster> zumbi_: have you gone through all of the update processes?
Aug 27 19:21:07 <slaine> zumbi_: You can have more than one window open
Aug 27 19:21:07 <zumbi_> DawnFoster: I am currently updating
Aug 27 19:21:22 <slaine> each window opens in a "Zone"
Aug 27 19:21:25 <DawnFoster> zumbi_: good - you should do that first
Aug 27 19:21:44 <zumbi_> i had to go to F1, ssh to external machine and connect to IRC
Aug 27 19:21:56 <slaine> alt+tab will display an overview of all open zones and you can switch to each app that way (you can also move windows around to organize your zones)
Aug 27 19:22:08 <zumbi_> it might be nice to have a support button which joins to some support irc channel like this one Ñ)
Aug 27 19:22:14 <DawnFoster> and you can have multiple apps in the same zone
Aug 27 19:23:04 <zumbi_> slaine: ok, i'll try the zone stuff, but i did try alt-tab and it did not seem to work for me
Aug 27 19:23:21 <slaine> It's different to what people are used to, but it works better as a flow, in my opinion, when dealing with the restrictive size of a netbook screen
Aug 27 19:23:51 <zumbi_> yes, i guess i need to go through the learning curve
Aug 27 19:24:11 <Saviq> hi all, I'm trying to get the 1.0.80 netbook images, but I'm getting some squashfs errors, are the images supposed to work off of a USB drive?
Aug 27 19:24:30 * zumbi_ changes back to F2
Aug 27 19:24:46 <slaine> zumbi_: if you closed the window and ended up with just a blank screen, then that's normal behavior. You can move the mouse to the top of the screen to trigger showing the toolbar, where the myzone and other panels are located, or simply press the windows key to act as a toggle for show/hide the toolbar
Aug 27 19:25:21 <DawnFoster> Saviq: the images are designed to work off of a USB drive
Aug 27 19:25:49 <DawnFoster> Saviq: I assume you used dd to copy the image?
Aug 27 19:25:57 <DawnFoster> (I have to ask) :)
Aug 27 19:26:14 <slaine> zumbi_: I actually think that one of the updates made it so that if no windows where active, then the toolbar and myzone panel are displayed automagically
Aug 27 19:27:18 <zumbi_> slaine: yes, i tested all that, it works
Aug 27 19:27:56 <zumbi_> but it takes a while to update
Aug 27 19:28:15 <slaine> yup
Aug 27 19:28:53 <zumbi_> that it is a problem of my network (C:
Aug 27 19:48:17 <lbt> DawnFoster: 6am... seriously... 6am
Aug 27 19:48:43 <Stskeeps> lbt: 8am finnish time
Aug 27 19:48:43 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 27 19:48:45 <DawnFoster> lbt: it's after my bedtime, so not ideal for me, either :)
Aug 27 19:48:56 <DawnFoster> we're being nice to Asia
Aug 27 19:48:59 <lbt> that's like twenty to eight... except it's one hundred and twenty to eight
Aug 27 19:49:28 * lbt will go outside and wake up all the birds for a change :)
Aug 27 19:49:57 <DawnFoster> lbt: so is that a "yes, I'll be there!"
Aug 27 19:50:07 <lbt> <sigh>
Aug 27 19:50:15 <lbt> you owe me a coffee :)
Aug 27 19:50:48 <Stskeeps> lbt, i wonder if there's some good ice cream places in dublin
Aug 27 19:50:58 <lbt> I hope so...
Aug 27 19:51:06 <lbt> we should have done cornwall...
Aug 27 19:51:18 <Stskeeps> nothing tops the ice cream shop in the middle of the red light district, though
Aug 27 19:51:21 <DawnFoster> lbt: will do!
Aug 27 19:51:26 <lbt> that was good...
Aug 27 19:51:43 <lbt> DawnFoster: have you found ice-cream parlours in Dublin...
Aug 27 19:51:54 <lbt> you should come over early and help research them
Aug 27 19:51:59 <DawnFoster> lbt: I was leaving that up to you guys :)
Aug 27 19:52:06 <DawnFoster> I'll bet slaine can help us
Aug 27 19:55:47 <slaine> Hmm, interesting question
Aug 27 19:56:02 <slaine> I don't know of any ice-cream parlours at all
Aug 27 19:56:48 <slaine> Most shopping centers (malls) have places where you can buy nice ice-creams, but there's not really a market for the dinner type place that just sells ice-creams
Aug 27 19:57:21 <Stskeeps> even tiny stores selling icecream in cones? :P
Aug 27 19:57:42 <slaine> yeah, there the ones in the shopping malls
Aug 27 19:57:54 * Stskeeps glares at his meego image
Aug 27 19:58:05 <Stskeeps> once i touched the keys, touchscreen started working again
Aug 27 19:58:07 <slaine> (why do I feel the need to speak american when on irc)
Aug 27 19:58:50 <slaine> I'll ask about though
Aug 27 19:59:29 <lbt> they need to sell about 20 flavours...
Aug 27 20:00:33 * lbt now has to explain red-light district ice-cream to mrs. lbt.... thanks Stskeeps...
Aug 27 20:00:49 <DawnFoster> lbt: you must be picky if you need 20 flavors
Aug 27 20:00:49 <Stskeeps> sorry
Aug 27 20:00:50 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 27 20:00:56 <slaine> http://www.botticelli.ie/
Aug 27 20:01:06 <Stskeeps> lbt: say the police advised us there
Aug 27 20:01:06 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 27 20:01:07 <slaine> I've been then once, pretty nice
Aug 27 20:01:13 <lbt> DawnFoster: it's about making the choice...
Aug 27 20:01:55 <DawnFoster> Confession: I don't actually eat ice cream
Aug 27 20:02:11 <lbt> <shock>
Aug 27 20:02:23 <DawnFoster> well, not regular ice cream - I eat the kind made out of crazy stuff like soy, rice, almond :)
Aug 27 20:02:24 <lbt> sorbet ;)
Aug 27 20:02:31 <DawnFoster> I don't eat dairy
Aug 27 20:02:43 <lbt> sorbet is water-ice
Aug 27 20:02:53 <DawnFoster> haven't had any dairy in 15+ years :)
Aug 27 20:02:58 <DawnFoster> yeah, I do eat sorbet
Aug 27 20:09:48 <lcuk> lbt, red light district ice cream!
Aug 27 20:10:01 <CosmoHill> yay or nay?
Aug 27 20:10:24 <lcuk> it must be strawberry flavour
Aug 27 20:10:28 <lbt> lets just say it was unusually shaped
Aug 27 20:10:30 <slaine> awe
Aug 27 20:10:38 <lbt> and yes, bright red
Aug 27 20:10:39 <lcuk> lol lbt!
Aug 27 20:10:53 <slaine> you've put me off my strawberry jam on toast here
Aug 27 20:10:59 <lcuk> :D
Aug 27 20:11:13 * CosmoHill steps back out of the conversation
Aug 27 20:11:17 * lcuk just ate first meal in a few days
Aug 27 20:11:33 <slaine> times are tough alright lcuk
Aug 27 20:11:50 <lcuk> lol slaine, for other reasons :P
Aug 27 20:12:05 <slaine> I carried my bike to the mines to save rubber on't tires
Aug 27 20:12:43 <slaine> TIRES, you wur lucky, we'd a log that we tie us selves to and roll down mine shaft
Aug 27 20:13:46 <lcuk> in my day we had to walk uphill into the mines
Aug 27 20:13:59 * slaine giggles like a school girl
Aug 27 20:14:17 <CosmoHill> slaine: well it is the weekend...
Aug 27 20:14:26 <slaine> it's also lack of sleep
Aug 27 20:14:33 <slaine> wibble wibble
Aug 27 20:14:51 * CosmoHill hands slaine coffee
Aug 27 20:15:01 <slaine> nom nom
Aug 27 20:15:11 <lbt> turkish coffee eh?
Aug 27 20:16:42 <TSCHAKeee> mmm, ibrik
Aug 27 20:16:48 <TSCHAKeee> haven't used mine in a looong time
Aug 27 20:31:36 <lbt> Stskeeps, DawnFoster ... you know... I think we're simply asking MeeGo.com to act as a mirror for downloads.maemo.org ... that essentially sums it up.
Aug 27 20:32:19 <Stskeeps> lbt: that doesn't seem very clear to me :P
Aug 27 20:32:25 <lbt> oh :(
Aug 27 20:32:34 <DawnFoster> stskeeps: oh good, I thought I was missing something
Aug 27 20:32:59 <lbt> downloads.maemo.org has all the open and closed libs from maemo sdk
Aug 27 20:33:02 <DawnFoster> lbt: we will find a way to make this all work
Aug 27 20:33:21 <lbt> I thought maybe that would be an "aha!"
Aug 27 20:33:28 <lbt> apparently not...
Aug 27 20:33:38 * lbt goes back to another epic email...
Aug 27 20:33:39 <Stskeeps> lbt: still not understanding, sorry
Aug 27 20:33:40 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 27 20:33:54 <Stskeeps> you probably mean repository.
Aug 27 20:34:23 <lbt> well. if meego.com was 'just' a mirror for the sdk then the builder could use the content on the OBS server
Aug 27 20:34:41 <lbt> and if a user did an osc build then the mirror is just sending a mirror copy down
Aug 27 20:34:49 <Stskeeps> lbt: yeah, but in facto , repository.maemo.org is a nokia server
Aug 27 20:35:02 <lbt> the mirror would have to be a Nokia affiliate
Aug 27 20:35:18 <lbt> to satisfy legal (and would have a grant to distribute to be clear)
Aug 27 20:35:33 <lbt> we'd use the Eula to limit to signees
Aug 27 20:36:04 <Stskeeps> lbt: i think we need a made-in-GIMP flowchart to exactly explain the problem
Aug 27 20:36:19 <lcuk> :D
Aug 27 20:36:22 <auke-sfo> yay, free wifi at SFO airport
Aug 27 20:36:45 * lbt hi5s auke-sfo
Aug 27 20:36:46 <ScottishDuck> free as in beer not free as in freedom
Aug 27 20:36:52 <auke-sfo> mmm beer
Aug 27 20:36:55 <ScottishDuck> </stallman>
Aug 27 20:37:00 <Stskeeps> auke-sfo: going on holidays? :)
Aug 27 20:37:06 <Stskeeps> lbt: but now i'll go look at osc build
Aug 27 20:37:09 <auke-sfo> renewing passport today
Aug 27 20:37:11 <DawnFoster> auke -sfo: beer and free wifi - awesome
Aug 27 20:37:21 <ScottishDuck> Looking forward to my weekend trip to stockholm
Aug 27 20:37:24 <auke-sfo> already headed back to pdx
Aug 27 20:37:27 <ScottishDuck> courtesy of PPSE
Aug 27 20:37:29 <ScottishDuck> woop woop
Aug 27 20:37:47 <DawnFoster> wondering when SFO added free wifi
Aug 27 20:38:23 <lbt> it goes through google
Aug 27 20:38:32 <auke-sfo> DawnFoster: about time ;)
Aug 27 20:39:10 <DawnFoster> wishing they had free wifi last year when I was flying to SFO every other week
Aug 27 20:39:18 <Stskeeps> i like one of the helsinki ones, pay for 20 minutes, but after 20 mins, they forget to shut down alive TCP sessions
Aug 27 20:39:22 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 27 20:39:24 <Stskeeps> (useful for ssh)
Aug 27 20:39:25 <auke-sfo> lol
Aug 27 20:39:40 <auke-sfo> supposedly there's only 45mins of free wifi tho
Aug 27 20:39:42 <lcuk> Stskeeps, they will get you next time :P
Aug 27 20:39:47 <auke-sfo> time to start downloading
Aug 27 20:39:48 <lbt> Stskeeps: you're in the wrong hotel...
Aug 27 20:39:52 <Stskeeps> lbt: airport
Aug 27 20:40:02 <lbt> airport is free at Hel
Aug 27 20:40:19 <Stskeeps> lbt: depending on location
Aug 27 20:40:24 <ScottishDuck> Any of you familiar with stockholm?
Aug 27 20:40:31 <ScottishDuck> any places I should visit?
Aug 27 20:40:31 <lbt> Stskeeps: your on the wrong airline ;)
Aug 27 20:40:50 <lbt> ScottishDuck: starbucks?
Aug 27 20:40:58 <ScottishDuck> oh u
Aug 27 20:41:33 <ScottishDuck> I have a mac so I've been there already
Aug 27 20:41:35 <ScottishDuck> naturally
Aug 27 20:42:36 <auke-sfo> my plane better take me to pdx instead of helsinki ;)
Aug 27 20:43:29 <ScottishDuck> I'm going with Ryanair to stockholm ._.
Aug 27 20:43:43 <CosmoHill> ScottishDuck: poor you
Aug 27 20:43:52 * CosmoHill stopped reading at Ryan Air
Aug 27 20:44:01 <ScottishDuck> pretty much
Aug 27 20:44:17 <ScottishDuck> I'll make sure to have plenty of Vodka at the election party
Aug 27 20:44:23 <ScottishDuck> make the return flight more enjoyable
Aug 27 20:44:32 <auke-sfo> ScottishDuck: ouch lol
Aug 27 20:46:20 <CosmoHill> Ryan Air flew mum's friend done, when he got back they said "you can't fly, you don't have a passport"
Aug 27 20:46:29 <CosmoHill> s/done/down/
Aug 27 20:46:29 <infobot> CosmoHill meant: Ryan Air flew mum's friend down, when he got back they said "you can't fly, you don't have a passport"
Aug 27 20:47:19 <Stskeeps> lbt: this is a really nasty hack, but does osc support redirects?
Aug 27 20:47:20 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 27 20:47:40 <ScottishDuck> I'm having to get a fast track passport
Aug 27 20:47:44 <ScottishDuck> expensive :/
Aug 27 20:48:08 <ScottishDuck> I wish PPSE had given me an advance warning
Aug 27 20:48:21 <CosmoHill> ScottishDuck: ah
Aug 27 20:48:22 <Stskeeps> PPSE?
Aug 27 20:48:35 <ScottishDuck> Pirate Party Sweden
Aug 27 20:48:35 <CosmoHill> dad got one of them via work, hand delivered to the house :)
Aug 27 20:48:44 <Stskeeps> ah
Aug 27 20:48:53 <CosmoHill> (by via work I mean they paid for it)
Aug 27 20:49:10 <ScottishDuck> :/
Aug 27 20:50:05 <lbt> Stskeeps: python library so yes
Aug 27 20:50:29 <lbt> however...
Aug 27 20:51:02 <lbt> osc build does a download via both downloads and osc api "get binary"
Aug 27 20:51:18 <lbt> we'd have to block that... doable though
Aug 27 20:51:35 <Stskeeps> i'm pondering to severely abuse the mirror support
Aug 27 20:52:20 <lbt> Stskeeps: or we could just host the binaries and avoid the hacks...
Aug 27 20:52:32 <Stskeeps> if it can save us a lot of legal trouble, i'm all about hacks
Aug 27 20:52:32 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 27 20:52:52 <lbt> but are there any legal troubles?
Aug 27 20:52:59 <lbt> gsx
Aug 27 20:53:47 <lbt> but then a "you may distribute to a registered users who demonstrate they have a device" letter
Aug 27 20:55:46 <DawnFoster> lbt: both potential legal issues with redistribution, but again, the issue about trying not to have closed source stuff in the community obs
Aug 27 20:56:09 <DawnFoster> *sounds like broken record* :)
Aug 27 20:56:23 <lbt> DawnFoster: I don't understand why not.
Aug 27 20:56:33 <lbt> this is Fremantle, not MeeGo
Aug 27 20:56:51 <lbt> (now who's broken :) )
Aug 27 20:57:08 <DawnFoster> but you're talking about putting the closed source components in the meego community obs on the meego infrastructure at OSU
Aug 27 20:57:19 <lbt> yes...
Aug 27 20:57:24 <lbt> wait
Aug 27 20:57:28 <lbt> not components
Aug 27 20:57:33 * auke-sfo online using meego chat client!!! awesome, it works
Aug 27 20:57:51 <DawnFoster> lbt: you know what I mean
Aug 27 20:57:57 <CosmoHill> auke-sfo: yay
Aug 27 20:58:07 <lbt> putting closed fremantle sdk binaries in a fremantle project on the OBS
Aug 27 20:58:21 * Stskeeps yawns
Aug 27 20:58:21 <auke-sfo> netbook version tho, no idea how far chat on handset is atm
Aug 27 20:58:33 <lbt> DawnFoster: yes. but we need to be clear with each other
Aug 27 20:58:46 <lbt> I think Quim thought MeeGo APIs were in-scope
Aug 27 20:58:48 <lbt> they're not
Aug 27 20:58:58 <DawnFoster> on the meego community obs hosted on the meego infrastructure at osu
Aug 27 20:59:20 <DawnFoster> we talked this in circles this morning
Aug 27 20:59:33 <lbt> as a way to absorb the maemo legacy community who make up much of the meego community
Aug 27 20:59:45 <lbt> we are the same people
Aug 27 20:59:48 <Stskeeps> i think we're all on the same page why we're doing this, just the method is escaping us a little :)
Aug 27 20:59:51 <auke-sfo> DawnFoster: what about that?
Aug 27 20:59:52 <DawnFoster> I still think there are technical solutions involving linking or using the maemo obs
Aug 27 20:59:57 <lbt> evolving from maemo to meego
Aug 27 21:00:17 <auke-sfo> ah the linking issue
Aug 27 21:00:17 <DawnFoster> lbt: I have never disagreed with the "why" and the importance
Aug 27 21:00:18 <lbt> DawnFoster: sure there are... but they cost
Aug 27 21:00:25 <lbt> I know
Aug 27 21:00:27 <DawnFoster> lbt: yes, I understand that
Aug 27 21:00:27 <Stskeeps> lbt: so, my thought is simple..
Aug 27 21:00:37 <Stskeeps> (let's get down to technical details)
Aug 27 21:00:45 <Stskeeps> lbt: osc build gets a list of mirrors from somewhere
Aug 27 21:01:31 <Stskeeps> this mirror list would fail on the first mirror (main obs), and succeed on second mirror (maemo.org obs with binaries)
Aug 27 21:02:19 <Stskeeps> osc build requires auth, we might as well exploit this to know who to pass the mirror list to
Aug 27 21:02:21 <lbt> agreed but at this point we're playing with TCP to avoid legal/ethical issues...
Aug 27 21:02:50 <Stskeeps> if we can avoid involving a single lawyer, it'd make the entire process a lot smoother :P
Aug 27 21:02:55 * lcuk vanishes whilst feeling good
Aug 27 21:03:15 <lbt> Stskeeps: well, you may have a point.
Aug 27 21:03:26 <DawnFoster> lcuk: hope you keep feeling better!
Aug 27 21:03:34 <Stskeeps> i'm just looking at osc code to figure out exactly what needs to be done
Aug 27 21:03:46 <lcuk> thats why I am vanishing DawnFoster :) have something to finish writing \o ttyl
Aug 27 21:04:00 <DawnFoster> lcuk: ok, get to it :)
Aug 27 21:04:25 * lbt is going to look for his blind cat who's wandered off...
Aug 27 21:06:22 <DawnFoster> oh good, now we can talk about lbt while he chases his cat (kidding!)
Aug 27 21:06:41 <CosmoHill> kitty!
Aug 27 21:07:00 <auke-sfo> someone send a ^B to attract his cat
Aug 27 21:07:25 <ScottishDuck> I'll send %
Aug 27 21:07:30 <ScottishDuck> % is a bee
Aug 27 21:16:54 * lbt found cat... under car
Aug 27 21:17:08 <Stskeeps> lbt: OK, i have an idea that doesn't involve lawyers.
Aug 27 21:18:12 <lbt> Stskeeps: OK ... listening
Aug 27 21:19:08 <Stskeeps> lbt: you recall the token url, that once you agree to eula, it gives you a repository url to add to apt/sources.list
Aug 27 21:19:19 <Stskeeps> this is a normal thing to do for maemo developers
Aug 27 21:19:31 <CosmoHill> excerlent, we have a new university mail service. Do they tell us how to access it? no
Aug 27 21:20:42 <Stskeeps> lbt: .oscrc has a 'urllist' config which is mirror it tries for projects
Aug 27 21:20:51 <Stskeeps> such as 'http://software.opensuse.org/download/%(project)s/%(repository)s/%(arch)s/%(filename)s',
Aug 27 21:21:45 <Stskeeps> so when it looks for packages, it searches those first, then tries api
Aug 27 21:21:54 <Stskeeps> (to my knowledge)
Aug 27 21:22:35 <lbt> not sure about urllist
Aug 27 21:22:45 <lbt> assume it
Aug 27 21:23:43 <Stskeeps> to let people build against a meego sdk online they don't need to agree to an eula do they?
Aug 27 21:23:50 <Stskeeps> i mean, we don't do that on autobuilder
Aug 27 21:24:01 <Stskeeps> so cbuild would have that as target by default (or easy opt in)
Aug 27 21:24:39 <Stskeeps> if people want local builds, they have a way to add it to their oscrcs, while we block api for linked OBS
Aug 27 21:24:46 <Stskeeps> (ie, the maemo.org one)
Aug 27 21:25:07 <lbt> OK
Aug 27 21:25:32 <Stskeeps> this was it bends down to caching and an admin agreeing to EULA of the linked bits..
Aug 27 21:25:41 <Stskeeps> this would then, i mean
Aug 27 21:25:51 <`alt096> hi all
Aug 27 21:26:21 <lbt> OK ... would that not mean having closed bits on the OBS... although they would not be redistributed
Aug 27 21:26:52 <Stskeeps> the OBS would fetch binaries (as it can under EULA) over obs link, cache temporarily/use for installation, and build a package
Aug 27 21:27:10 <Stskeeps> and it won't redistribute them through it's own api (if people want packages, they can add it in oscrc)
Aug 27 21:28:26 <Stskeeps> it is no more difficult than the current situation
Aug 27 21:29:18 <Stskeeps> i think this should be pretty simple to acheive.
Aug 27 21:30:31 <lbt> yes. this avoids distributing the binaries
Aug 27 21:30:52 <Stskeeps> (there is a can of worms in the fact we don't make people accept EULA for an autobuilder on maemo.org, but ..)
Aug 27 21:31:09 <lbt> we can make the nokia closed repos a "DoD" for the OBS
Aug 27 21:31:28 <lbt> although we may end up priming it ...
Aug 27 21:31:45 <Stskeeps> well, isn't a obs instance easier to deal with?
Aug 27 21:31:51 <Stskeeps> to link to
Aug 27 21:32:43 <lbt> actually easier... no
Aug 27 21:32:55 <lbt> more arguable at the legal semantics... maybe
Aug 27 21:34:15 <Stskeeps> to implement this we basically need: tero&co to add a part with oscrc to the token page, a patch for api to not export nokia-binaries:* over api and someone to accept the EULA of the binaries for use for maemo development on the machine.
Aug 27 21:34:31 <Stskeeps> and the binaries exported in a format osc build would like/obs itself
Aug 27 21:35:37 <lbt> and .... agreement that the OBS can be used to build against closed binaries...
Aug 27 21:36:16 <lbt> although we now have a technical solution that avoids lawyers ... which is a plus point
Aug 27 21:36:19 <Stskeeps> that's probably a non-issue
Aug 27 21:36:30 <Stskeeps> we could ask if we can install scratchbox and everyone can use it :0
Aug 27 21:37:20 <Stskeeps> but i think we won't have a problem getting 'permission' to do: build against fremantle with binaries, as long as the binaries are not hosted on the machine (except for fair use caching and build) and it doesn't distribute them
Aug 27 21:38:37 <nuovodna> will nokia n9 with meego be announced at nokia conference in september?
Aug 27 21:38:47 <Stskeeps> nuovodna: sorry, you'll have to ask nokia about that :)
Aug 27 21:39:06 <Stskeeps> nuovodna: we deal with meego.com here, software, not hardware creation :)
Aug 27 21:39:36 <nuovodna> thanks Stskeeps
Aug 27 21:39:37 <Stskeeps> lbt: should i do a writeup and mail it?
Aug 27 21:39:59 <lbt> Stskeeps: OK - was just looking at the code
Aug 27 21:40:19 <lbt> I replied to Attila BTW
Aug 27 21:40:37 <Stskeeps> lbt: minor detail to pay attention to is that i think workers drag binaries in with api, so there needs to be a localnet exception..
Aug 27 21:42:27 <lbt> yeah... maintaing that in perpetuity is part of the cost of avoiding the "you can redistribute" letter from nokia
Aug 27 21:43:03 <Stskeeps> we're all hosed if repository.maemo.org nokia-binaries goes down anyway
Aug 27 21:43:11 <Stskeeps> but considering we still have maemo 1.0 debs..
Aug 27 21:43:11 <lbt> worth identifying this as a viable solution ... but also saying what you're solving
Aug 27 21:44:59 <lbt> This effort is to a) avoid asking nokia to allow meego.com to mirror "nokia-binaries" and b) provide a veneer that meego.com is somehow not allowing closed binaries in the OBS targets
Aug 27 21:45:06 <Stskeeps> what's a veneer?
Aug 27 21:45:07 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 27 21:45:32 <lbt> thin wood overlay...
Aug 27 21:45:41 <Stskeeps> :blank look:
Aug 27 21:45:41 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 27 21:45:49 <lbt> kinda means hiding the unpleasant truth :)
Aug 27 21:45:59 <lbt> but very gentle
Aug 27 21:46:17 <DawnFoster> ahem :)
Aug 27 21:46:22 <lbt> you put a veneer of real wood over chipboard to make it look like real wood
Aug 27 21:46:56 <lbt> DawnFoster: I know you're listening...  :)
Aug 27 21:47:03 <Stskeeps> not the kind of thing i expected to learn on a friday evening
Aug 27 21:47:04 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 27 21:47:07 <nuovodna> is there a release schedule of meego handset ?
Aug 27 21:47:08 <DawnFoster> just making sure :)
Aug 27 21:47:20 <Stskeeps> nuovodna: yes, check out wiki.meego.com/Release_engineering
Aug 27 21:47:36 <Stskeeps> er, big E
Aug 27 21:47:46 <Stskeeps> http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering/Plans/1.1
Aug 27 21:48:08 <Stskeeps> (subject to change)
Aug 27 21:48:09 <lbt> DawnFoster: do you see my point.... even this solution puts freemantle closed binaries into the OBS for a build... it's kinda unavoidable.
Aug 27 21:48:15 <nuovodna> great...thanks again Stskeeps
Aug 27 21:48:44 <Stskeeps> lbt: i think that's just nitpicking :)
Aug 27 21:48:52 <DawnFoster> lbt / stskeeps: agreed
Aug 27 21:49:15 <Stskeeps> lbt: there'll be people who object the theme of obs isn't pink, too
Aug 27 21:49:16 <Stskeeps> :P
Aug 27 21:49:23 <DawnFoster> no, no pink :)
Aug 27 21:49:40 <ali1234> on that subject, why does the meego and maemo obs look different to what i have?
Aug 27 21:49:42 <lbt> DawnFoster: oh dear
Aug 27 21:49:47 <lbt> DawnFoster: too late
Aug 27 21:50:00 <DawnFoster> one more thing you have to change :P
Aug 27 21:50:10 <ali1234> maybe not the maemo one, can't remember if i've even seen that
Aug 27 21:51:07 <Stskeeps> ali1234: version
Aug 27 21:51:18 <Stskeeps> later ones is more facebook-y
Aug 27 21:51:22 <Stskeeps> or something
Aug 27 21:51:25 <ali1234> yeah i prefer the new look
Aug 27 21:51:39 <ali1234> is this going to break other things though?
Aug 27 21:51:50 <ali1234> if i use the "wrong" version?
Aug 27 21:52:06 <Stskeeps> we're on 1.8 or something on build.meego.com
Aug 27 21:52:16 <ali1234> i'm pretty sure i am on 1.8 too
Aug 27 21:52:23 <ali1234> at least i used build appliance version 1.8
Aug 27 21:52:26 <lbt> Stskeeps: I can certainly live with that solution. DawnFoster... what do you think ?
Aug 27 21:52:40 <Stskeeps> lbt: the one i suggested or which>
Aug 27 21:52:54 <DawnFoster> It seems to meet my requirement of hosting the binaries elsewhere
Aug 27 21:53:02 <DawnFoster> I'm ok with pulling them in to do the build
Aug 27 21:53:16 <DawnFoster> sort of inevitable - at some point you have to combine everything
Aug 27 21:54:34 <DawnFoster> I was assuming we were talking about stskeeps latest suggestion (that's what I was commenting on)
Aug 27 21:55:07 <lbt> Stskeeps: yes, the one you suggested. Block some binary packages from being available via osc api
Aug 27 21:55:23 <lbt> primary host is nokia as now
Aug 27 21:55:31 <lbt> and the OBS caches them for builds
Aug 27 21:55:58 <lbt> tweak osc Fetcher object to handle some kind of "also-try"
Aug 27 21:56:29 <lbt> hmm I wonder if DoD would hand a redirect to osc build...
Aug 27 21:57:00 <lbt> DoD is the least ongoing technical effort I think
Aug 27 21:57:06 <ali1234> hmm... what if i make a spec file that steals the binaries or something?
Aug 27 21:57:14 <ali1234> just by cp etc
Aug 27 21:57:16 <Stskeeps> ali1234: you don't (legally) have a right to use them
Aug 27 21:57:17 <lbt> ali1234: you'd break the license
Aug 27 21:57:21 <lbt> which is fine
Aug 27 21:57:24 <lbt> and naughty
Aug 27 21:58:22 <lbt> we are not implementing technical measures to prevent you ... we are implementing them to allow us to offer the service within the license
Aug 27 21:58:53 <ali1234> what if someone does it accidentally?
Aug 27 21:59:01 <Stskeeps> their problem for breaching license
Aug 27 21:59:10 <Stskeeps> should we put warning labels up? :P
Aug 27 21:59:15 <ali1234> i dunno :)
Aug 27 21:59:33 <ali1234> i still don't know which closed binaries you're really talking about
Aug 27 21:59:36 <lbt> <blink> makes a comeback!
Aug 27 21:59:41 <lbt> Fremantle
Aug 27 21:59:55 <lbt> N900 SDK from Nokia
Aug 27 22:00:24 <ali1234> i'm pretty sure that the SDK itself doesn't have the closed stuff and you have to add that other repo afterwards to get them...
Aug 27 22:00:37 <ali1234> i guess i can just look in that repo to see whats in it
Aug 27 22:00:50 <lbt> enough
Aug 27 22:01:14 <lbt> ali1234: I thought you didn't have an N900 ?
Aug 27 22:01:22 <ali1234> what made you think that?
Aug 27 22:01:38 <ali1234> i have a n800 too
Aug 27 22:01:43 <lbt> I may be confusing you  :) easy done
Aug 27 22:02:00 <ali1234> you always confuse me :)
Aug 27 22:02:09 <lbt> like I say... easy done
Aug 27 22:02:51 <ali1234> touche
Aug 27 22:05:57 * lbt decided to start hoarding some sleep so he can get up early on tuesday...
Aug 27 22:06:17 <lbt> 'night all ... thanks for the interesting and positive discussions :)
Aug 27 22:06:27 <DawnFoster> ha. night lbt :)
Aug 27 22:12:09 <slaine> I think I need another cuppa
Aug 27 22:16:36 <Nadley> I all
Aug 27 22:16:41 <Nadley> *hi
Aug 27 22:18:00 <Nadley> I have a little trouble in install meego on my sd card to try it on my n900 and it starts but I have not backlight so I use google and I found that I have to activate R&D mode I did it but it is not better
Aug 27 22:19:31 <CosmoHill> Nadley: one moment
Aug 27 22:20:11 <Nadley> CosmoHill: ok
Aug 27 22:23:27 <CosmoHill> Nadley:
Aug 27 22:23:29 <CosmoHill> try pressing the power button and increse brightness button
Aug 27 22:23:50 <Nadley> brightness button ?
Aug 27 22:23:56 <CosmoHill> erm
Aug 27 22:24:11 <CosmoHill> one moment
Aug 27 22:24:37 <Nadley> CosmoHill: ok I wait
Aug 27 22:25:32 <ali1234> Stskeeps: here is a list of every package that's listed in Build-Depends or Build-Depends-Indep in a dsc file in extras, ordered by how many packages depend on it: http://pastebin.com/isPr0qKr
Aug 27 22:26:03 <Nadley> CosmoHill: I use this guide to install meego on my SD CARD. And now my Meego is runnng but is it hard to see something http://flors.wordpress.com/2010/08/10/running-meego-1-1-unstable-in-your-n900/
Aug 27 22:27:57 <Stskeeps> ali1234: liblocation-dev, libosso-abook-dev, libtime-dev, librtcom-accounts-widgets-dev, opengles-sgx-img-common-dev
Aug 27 22:28:00 <Stskeeps> at least
Aug 27 22:29:09 <ali1234> even the -dev packages are not redistributable?
Aug 27 22:29:17 <Stskeeps> they all depend on a lib* :)
Aug 27 22:29:24 <Stskeeps> no fun if you can't link
Aug 27 22:29:29 <ali1234> i suppose
Aug 27 22:30:18 <CosmoHill> Stskeeps: can you help Nadley?
Aug 27 22:30:32 <Stskeeps> Nadley: what version of image?
Aug 27 22:30:54 <Nadley> Stskeeps: meego-handset-armv5tel-n900-nokia-proprietary-1.0.80.13.20100803.2-mmcblk0p.raw
Aug 27 22:31:05 <Stskeeps> get a newer one, we have lik 20100824 now
Aug 27 22:31:25 <Nadley> oh really were can I find it ?
Aug 27 22:31:45 <Stskeeps> Nadley: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php
Aug 27 22:33:38 <Nadley> Stskeeps: ok thanks I didn't see all the image. I was thinking there was just the first
Aug 27 22:35:27 <Nadley> Stskeeps: other question is there a place were I can knew more about what it is working on meego and what it is not
Aug 27 22:35:40 <Stskeeps> Nadley: yes, follow the test reports
Aug 27 22:38:36 <Nadley> Stskeeps: thx the backlight is working with the new kernel but I have to download the new image. Where are the test reports
Aug 27 22:40:19 <Stskeeps> Nadley: http://wiki.meego.com/Quality/HandsetTestReport
Aug 27 22:40:45 <CosmoHill> thanks Stskeeps
Aug 27 22:41:27 <Nadley> thx I'll try the new image later I have to go
Aug 27 22:41:50 <Nadley> I hope meego will be a good OS as I would like
Aug 27 22:42:50 <CosmoHill> Nadley: if not, open vim / emacs and contribute :)
Aug 27 22:43:19 <Nadley> I'm not good for it at the moment ;)
Aug 27 22:47:46 <CosmoHill> night night
Aug 27 23:21:03 <ScottishDuck> ARM seems to believe the future on phones is running multiple VMs at once
Aug 27 23:28:08 <lcuk> http://conference2010.meego.com/session/maemo-community-standing-shoulders-giants
Aug 27 23:28:11 <lcuk> summary submitted
Aug 27 23:34:47 <trem> nite all, sweet dreams
Aug 27 23:35:17 <slaine> nite all
Aug 28 00:02:50 <lcuk> DawnFoster, my keynote will likely include additional presenters, however I cannot leave it saying "Misc"
Aug 28 00:13:21 <lcuk> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=800473#post800473 :)
Aug 28 01:05:05 <sriramy> Hi, where can I find instructions to build Meego for Handset?
Aug 28 01:09:29 <ali1234> sriramy: to build an image with mic2?
Aug 28 01:09:56 <sriramy> yes
Aug 28 01:10:16 <ali1234> http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation
Aug 28 01:10:34 <sriramy> ali1234:Thx
Aug 28 01:10:35 <ali1234> http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation_For_Beginners
Aug 28 01:10:58 <ali1234> http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Creating_ARM_image_using_MeeGo_Image_Creator
Aug 28 01:11:07 <ali1234> probably a lot more docs in the wiki
Aug 28 01:11:51 <sriramy> ok
Aug 28 02:51:34 <sriramy> ali1234: I was looking to see if I can get the sources and build Meego for Handset.  Is that documented somewhere
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