**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Aug 28 02:59:57 2010 Aug 28 07:10:19 thiago: Would you know why qmake ignores files named Image.c and Console.c in the project source list? Aug 28 07:29:40 RST38h: what happens if you kill -USR1 a process that doesn't handle it? that's non-fatal isn't it? Aug 28 07:29:56 Stskeeps: sorry? Aug 28 07:30:13 RST38h: as in, it doesn't shut down the process cos the signal is unhandled Aug 28 07:30:15 Stskeeps: qmake is a one-shot makefile generator Aug 28 07:30:30 You run it from command line and have a generated makefile in a second Aug 28 07:30:52 What signal? When? Aug 28 07:30:54 yes, i know Aug 28 07:30:56 it wasn't related Aug 28 07:31:01 hmm Aug 28 07:31:24 It is almost as if qmake checks for certain file names and ignores them Aug 28 07:31:54 isn't qmake for .cpp/.cc files? :P Aug 28 07:32:01 No, not really Aug 28 07:32:31 * RST38h is confused now: he would gladly drop qmake completely and go with normal makefiles (using variables) Aug 28 07:32:45 But it is unclear how to make such a makefile intelligently in madde Aug 28 07:32:55 i hear, that all UI programming is moving from Fin to USA, is it right? Aug 28 07:33:06 qmake basically generates a pile of hardcoded absolute paths to qt includes etc Aug 28 07:33:37 hell: hm? Aug 28 07:34:26 Stskeeps: it's all about Nokia. Aug 28 07:34:48 hell: i could mention better places to move ui programming :) Aug 28 07:35:01 then again, ui programming does need a good supply of coke and weed Aug 28 07:35:01 :P Aug 28 07:35:04 Yes, Nokia and the little green men Aug 28 07:35:11 Stskeeps: :-) Aug 28 08:00:22 Ah, pretty, I know what is going on Aug 28 08:00:55 Stupid, stupid qmake, trying to avoid what it probably considers an inclusion loop by ignoring sources causing it Aug 28 08:01:50 Boos go to QtLabs and all idiots who think they can write a better build system than make. Aug 28 08:04:07 qmake doesn't replace make Aug 28 08:04:32 right Aug 28 08:04:51 and even the limited thing it does, it cannot do properly Aug 28 08:06:08 or it's pilot error, which is more likely Aug 28 08:06:20 ah, it is not Aug 28 08:06:56 I need to go do a few things but when I have a bit of time, I will show what exactly is causing it Aug 28 08:07:18 (not that I have any expectations of anyone fixing it of course) Aug 28 08:07:59 Morning, all Aug 28 08:16:58 Stskeeps, thiago: Observe: http://pastebin.com/kxnPFh3r Aug 28 08:17:46 When qmake looks at Image.c it completely ignores the fact that includes are conditional. What it sees is that Image.c includes ImageMux.h which includes Image.c Aug 28 08:18:16 This looks like an endless inclusion loop, so qmake silently drops Image.c from the list of sources, without printing any diagnostics. Aug 28 08:20:20 BTW, the project file also defines BPP16 so the inclusion never happens in the first place, but of course qmake does not take that into account. Aug 28 08:33:09 Ho ho ho it compiles! Aug 28 08:33:36 (after an ugly absolute path inserted into the makefile of course, but anyway) Aug 28 08:56:14 RST38h, absolute paths ftw Aug 28 08:56:21 FOOL PROOF! Aug 28 08:56:24 ++ Aug 28 08:58:33 yes, qmake does a quick scan of sources to figure out dependencies Aug 28 09:05:02 thiago: and once it finds something it does not like (personally), it quietly drops the source file from the list Aug 28 09:05:23 thiago: [please refer to my previous comments about idiots and build systems] Aug 28 09:06:07 I doubt it dropped from the list Aug 28 09:06:23 but it probably generated circular dependency rules that threw make off course Aug 28 09:06:25 it did, as Makefile contained no mention of Image.c whatsoever Aug 28 09:06:49 No, thiago. As I said, Image.c went away as if it weren't there Aug 28 09:08:14 Should I suggest how this msfeature has been introduced? Aug 28 09:08:39 Probably started from a user complaining about qmake going to endless loop and hanging on circular inclusions Aug 28 09:08:47 now prove it Aug 28 09:09:12 Trolltech people promptly fixed it by dropping any files that refer to themselves somewhere in the working set Aug 28 09:09:25 Problem solved, user happy :) Aug 28 09:09:35 I could believe that though Aug 28 09:09:51 thiago: I have proven it far enough, see the pastebin url from above Aug 28 09:10:09 thiago: If you still doubt it is true, paste those lines into a couple of files and try for yourself. Aug 28 09:11:14 thiago: As you are not responsible for qmake development, there is nothing you can help me with here, so ROI value for proving things to you is 0 :) Aug 28 09:12:50 * thiago_home has the power to influence qmake development Aug 28 09:13:15 Ok, I will happily demonstrate the problem to whoever is responsible for qmake development Aug 28 09:13:45 In return, of course, for a promise to fix it :) Aug 28 09:13:52 there's never a promise to fix anything Aug 28 09:14:22 Fixes: avoid pathological include case Aug 28 09:14:22 Task: 141749 Aug 28 09:14:22 Details: When a file includes itself, don't bookkeep that - it is mostly pathological. Aug 28 09:15:09 http://qt.nokia.com/developer/task-tracker/index_html?method=entry&id=141749 Aug 28 09:23:02 Stskeeps, why aren't the other keynotes being put up as open proposals? Aug 28 09:23:34 I just thought people were holding back from making them but they would be there, like mine :) Aug 28 09:23:46 lcuk: that's a good philosophical question Aug 28 09:24:26 thiago: If there is no promise to fix things, there is no incentive to report them Aug 28 09:25:36 lol Stskeeps Aug 28 09:25:54 thiago: I now have a solution (which is "do not use qmake"), so I am semihappy Aug 28 09:25:57 RST38h, that sounds like a regular complaint! Aug 28 09:26:24 lcuk: i think the tradition is that some vips are asked to come and do a talk, instead of submitting a proposal Aug 28 09:26:44 lcuk: See the log Aug 28 09:26:55 lcuk: but how this works in practice in a open project with sponsorship and industrial interest.. :) Aug 28 09:28:04 ahh wlel, shall see, community is opener - its going to be them writing it (they helped with the proposal) Aug 28 09:28:08 well ^ Aug 28 09:28:48 * Stskeeps goes back to his optflags bug Aug 28 09:29:10 * lcuk grabs coffee Aug 28 09:29:12 wedding today Aug 28 09:29:15 yours? Aug 28 09:29:19 hah, no Aug 28 09:29:25 cant afford that yet Aug 28 09:29:26 when is that anyway? Aug 28 09:29:26 :P Aug 28 09:29:28 ah Aug 28 09:29:40 we managed to do our wedding for 1000 pound or something total Aug 28 09:29:59 yeah well mine involves flying halfway round the world and logistics and crap Aug 28 09:30:09 only place me and tracy could agree on Aug 28 09:30:33 australia? :P Aug 28 09:30:48 las vegas - in a little chapel with elvis actually Aug 28 09:30:54 ah Aug 28 09:31:26 (don't ask..) Aug 28 09:32:10 morn david Aug 28 09:32:59 good morning Aug 28 09:33:06 my old server needs an upgrade Aug 28 09:33:22 oom this morning ... took all the VMs down Aug 28 09:33:27 \o morning lbt Aug 28 09:33:30 needed a desktop reboot Aug 28 09:33:31 bad :( Aug 28 09:33:37 hey lcuk Aug 28 09:41:56 lbt, did your car ever get happily fixed? Aug 28 09:42:29 yes Aug 28 09:42:36 nice Aug 28 09:43:16 took a while but it's back to normal :) Aug 28 09:43:30 heh cool Aug 28 09:43:47 hmm... something is up... I'm getting like 3-4 second keypress latency here... Aug 28 09:44:05 i get that when my internal network is slow Aug 28 09:44:38 lbt: your keypresses is getting sent to the moon and back? ;) Aug 28 09:44:51 they may as well be Aug 28 09:45:05 i have decided i'm not gcc's friend Aug 28 09:45:09 I type entire sentences and don't see a reaction Aug 28 09:45:20 heh Aug 28 09:45:42 Stskeeps, take gcc out for a beer and make up with it Aug 28 09:45:58 if we use -Wl,-z,anything, if we don't have -O2 -g -pipe -Wall -Wp,-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 -fexceptions -fstack-protector --param=ssp-buffer-size=4 -Wl,-z,relno,-z,now -fmessage-length=0 -march=armv7-a -mtune=cortex-a8 -mlittle-endian -mfpu=vfpv3 -mfloat-abi=softfp -D__SOFTFP__ (or the armv5tel equivalent), it creates non-PIC shared libraries Aug 28 09:47:03 * lbt nods and looks like he understands Aug 28 09:47:11 mm Aug 28 09:47:35 'the reason qt is so darned slow on meego ARM' Aug 28 09:47:35 :P Aug 28 09:47:38 mm Aug 28 09:48:34 Stskeeps, dont you need export-dynamic and -shared? Aug 28 09:48:40 it's there Aug 28 11:22:05 docela by mě zajímalo, čím je způsobený přeskakování hlasitosti přehrávání muziky při míchání s jiným zvukem (fedora 13, pulse) Aug 28 11:22:34 wrong channel, sorry Aug 28 11:41:37 oooh @yerga is looking at meego-handset-photo Aug 28 12:09:35 hello, i try to flash meego on my n900. I understand thath i only need 2 files, kernel and ubiimg. But which files should i use just to test ? Aug 28 12:10:19 which kernel and from where i should flash? Aug 28 12:11:38 have you read the wiki page about flashing the n900? Aug 28 12:12:02 meegoss: no, you need to grab the sd card image 'raw' and kernel Aug 28 12:12:16 so native installation is not possible? Aug 28 12:12:19 to nand Aug 28 12:12:29 Stskeeps: It's 3pm for you right? Aug 28 12:12:36 2pm Aug 28 12:12:40 meegoss: right, meego's too big Aug 28 12:12:41 ah okay Aug 28 12:12:43 CET Aug 28 12:13:08 Stskeeps: hmm but it flashes it ok when i try to flash it Aug 28 12:13:21 meegoss: yes, but that's an ancient version Aug 28 12:13:37 well if i just want to try that? Aug 28 12:14:00 http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/0.9.80.1.20100330.1/n900/images/meego-codedrop-arm-n900/meego-codedrop-arm-n900-201003311614.ubiimg for example this Aug 28 12:14:29 it shows an x terminal Aug 28 12:14:40 http://tablets-dev.meego.com/meego-codedrop.php Aug 28 12:14:56 so which kernel i should flash with this particular image Aug 28 12:15:13 * RST38h filed a bug at Qt bugzilla. Let us see if these guys are any better than Maemo guys Aug 28 12:15:23 meegoss: there should be a vmlinuz alongside Aug 28 12:15:27 meegoss: or zimage Aug 28 12:16:10 http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/0.9.80.1.20100330.1/n900/images/meego-codedrop-arm-n900/ not here, only image, ks and tar.gz Aug 28 12:16:38 anyway.. i would just give up and get a microsd and http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php Aug 28 12:17:33 Stskeeps: okey maybe ill try that Aug 28 12:19:58 i'm ordering microsd cards. is there any use in getting 8gb instead of 4gb? Aug 28 12:20:44 what's the price difference? Aug 28 12:20:54 about 40% Aug 28 12:21:06 any reason you're ordering more than one? Aug 28 12:21:15 i want to run meego and nitdroid Aug 28 12:21:22 I mean one 8gb is cheaper than two 4gb Aug 28 12:21:34 ali1234: get a class 6 or 10 if possible Aug 28 12:21:34 yeah, just slightly Aug 28 12:21:35 4gb should be fine for dev work Aug 28 12:21:46 Stskeeps: really? hmm ok, i was going to get class 4 Aug 28 12:22:02 mb/s is always good Aug 28 12:22:24 is it mbit or mbyte? Aug 28 12:22:29 dunno Aug 28 12:22:30 :P Aug 28 12:22:54 cos 4 mbyte is pretty fast... Aug 28 12:23:19 it's mbyte according wikipedia Aug 28 12:27:27 £15 for a 4GB class 10 Aug 28 12:27:42 ignore that, not micro Aug 28 12:28:13 thinking of getting this: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/179892 Aug 28 12:28:16 x2 Aug 28 12:28:24 cos those adapters are always useful Aug 28 12:28:36 and my mini adapters are actually wearing out from over use Aug 28 12:28:39 one already broke Aug 28 12:29:23 I can't remember the website I got my dad's cards from , i know it was irish and included USB adapters Aug 28 12:33:19 ali1234: mobile phone shops tend to sell microSD cards if you want to look there Aug 28 12:33:44 i went around all local shops yesterday, every single one wanted over £20 for a sdhc card with no adapters Aug 28 12:33:55 for 4GB Aug 28 12:34:03 sod that Aug 28 12:35:02 yeah quite Aug 28 12:35:34 now I'm looking at compact flash cards for my camera >.< Aug 28 12:37:59 I've seen some 4GB ones but doesn;t' say the class Aug 28 12:39:20 ali1234: http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/4Gb-Transcend-TS4GUSDHC6-microSDHC-Memory-Card-with-SD-Adaptor-class-6-Retail Aug 28 12:39:36 ew scan Aug 28 12:39:38 no thanks Aug 28 12:39:45 plus it only has the big adapter Aug 28 12:43:21 ali1234: http://www.microdirect.co.uk/Home/Search/Flash-Memory-Pen-Drives/Flash-Memory/?attribute_value_string|Internal+Memory+%28MB%29=4096+%284+GB%29&attribute_value_string|Flash+Card+Type=Micro+Secure+Digital+%28MicroSD%29 Aug 28 12:43:58 CosmoHill: more expensive than ebuyer for exact same thing :) Aug 28 12:44:04 >.< Aug 28 12:44:15 see how they compare on postage? Aug 28 12:44:24 ebuyer is £1.94 Aug 28 12:44:31 wow Aug 28 12:44:45 that's for 3 day, and they go by weight so... Aug 28 12:45:19 I looked at £1.20 worth of components and the postage was £6 Aug 28 12:45:51 at what shop? Aug 28 12:45:57 you can't get much on ebuyer for £1.20 Aug 28 12:45:59 CPC or something Aug 28 12:46:05 ah CPC, i knew it Aug 28 12:46:16 would be resistors or something Aug 28 12:46:30 they have a minimum order, once you go over it, delivery is free Aug 28 12:46:33 PCB sockets that might work with this laptop Aug 28 12:46:35 i think it's about £30 Aug 28 12:46:41 or maybe that's farnell Aug 28 12:46:58 ended up buying them on ebay in the states for £5.50 Aug 28 12:47:02 ali1234: same thing Aug 28 12:47:03 but they are wholesalers, they don't like dealing with some guy buying 3 resistors and a socket Aug 28 12:53:01 oh dear lord I think william is back Aug 28 12:54:16 wtf is william? Aug 28 12:54:36 a guy who got banned from both LFS and CLFS Aug 28 12:54:48 he would email CLFS going "LFS / DIY linux has done this, you should too" Aug 28 12:54:52 with no reason why Aug 28 12:55:01 it's 14 i think and as annoying as hell Aug 28 12:55:03 wtf is LFS? Aug 28 12:55:13 www.linuxfromscratch.org Aug 28 12:55:23 *he's Aug 28 12:55:25 ah Aug 28 12:55:30 wtf is CLFS? Aug 28 12:55:40 No, "it's" is fine when talking about trolls Aug 28 12:55:40 also a few other projects that he's annoyed Aug 28 12:55:43 Cross Aug 28 12:56:05 for an example Aug 28 12:56:06 Anything that cannot pass the Turing test should be referred to as "it" Aug 28 12:56:19 There was a typo in the book, he sent us a patch Aug 28 12:56:19 -make ARCH=ppc CROSS_COMPILE=${CLFS_TARGET}- \ Aug 28 12:56:20 +make ARCH=powerpc CROSS_COMPILE=${CLFS_TARGET}- \ Aug 28 12:56:27 that's it Aug 28 12:56:37 no mention of which line? Aug 28 12:56:46 i mean there is a while patch file Aug 28 12:56:52 but he adds 4 letters to it Aug 28 12:56:59 ) Aug 28 12:57:04 plus we've been using ppc for years so why change it now Aug 28 12:57:17 i dunno, cos that's what the arch is called? Aug 28 12:57:55 if that's a prefix to a kernel compile which it looks like, then you better get the ARCH right, or it won't work Aug 28 12:59:37 he also made another change in the book and neglected to change all the things that depend on it Aug 28 12:59:54 so if we implemented the changes the book wouldn't compile Aug 28 13:00:05 ARCH=ppc make menuconfig # this doesn't work Aug 28 13:00:13 ARCH=powerpc make menuconfig # this does work Aug 28 13:00:24 but meh, it's your book :) Aug 28 13:00:59 well I am gonna test it Aug 28 13:01:34 just give me 3 mins to unpack the tarball... Aug 28 13:02:10 * CosmoHill thinks of his development machines Aug 28 13:02:19 out of the three I have, only one of them is over 1Ghz ;/ Aug 28 13:02:55 i just tried it on 2.6.32 Aug 28 13:11:48 just tired 2.6.33, now trying 2.6.19 Aug 28 13:11:50 *29 Aug 28 13:15:23 okay now I'm confused Aug 28 13:15:30 1. 2.6.19 also uses powerpc, not ppc Aug 28 13:15:35 2. the book also uses powerpc, not ppc Aug 28 13:16:31 they probably renamed it Aug 28 13:17:00 or, it's just a single typo maybe, hence the simple patch? Aug 28 13:18:25 ah found it Aug 28 13:19:12 odd, it's correct 2 out of 3 times on that page Aug 28 13:24:19 maybe it's not william, seems to be helpful :/ Aug 28 14:01:14 heya everyone. Aug 28 14:03:37 hey th0br0 Aug 28 14:03:40 how was your summer? Aug 28 14:03:48 pretty interesting :) how was yours in the end? Aug 28 14:05:34 What do you recommend phone to test the application for meego handset Aug 28 14:07:23 Mat_Matan: what phone would we recommend? Aug 28 14:07:39 yup Aug 28 14:08:05 idk what phone can run meego handset Aug 28 14:08:09 Meego only works on the N900 Aug 28 14:08:17 (at the moment) Aug 28 14:08:58 Thx Aug 28 14:09:10 it works on those development devices too, if you can get hold of one :) Aug 28 14:10:27 ;) ali1234 Aug 28 14:10:59 http://www.aavamobile.com/ Aug 28 14:12:20 ooo Aug 28 14:12:53 CosmoHill, for some definition of "works". Aug 28 14:13:21 it mostly works Aug 28 14:13:50 For some definition of "mostly". Aug 28 14:14:22 Mat_Matan: ask GAN900 how it works on the n900 :) Aug 28 14:15:32 easier to go watch a video Aug 28 14:15:41 ali1234: is there any eta on that aava mobile? Aug 28 14:15:54 website says 2010Q3 Aug 28 14:16:02 mh Aug 28 14:16:02 for developer sdk Aug 28 14:16:06 that ends monday :o Aug 28 14:16:07 that's all i know Aug 28 14:16:28 Atom Z600 huh Aug 28 14:16:42 x86 phones are still hilarious. Aug 28 14:16:54 yeah, don't put it in your pocket if you wear polyester slacks :/ Aug 28 14:16:56 No matter how much handwaving Intel wants to do. Aug 28 14:17:06 I like that they have a pre-order option but no price Aug 28 14:18:17 "if you need to ask you don't need to know" Aug 28 14:18:31 ^ Aug 28 14:18:43 :( Aug 28 14:18:56 I think it's somewhere around $2,000. Aug 28 14:19:18 okay sod that Aug 28 14:22:06 isn't there a beagle board port? Aug 28 14:22:13 those are only $149 Aug 28 14:22:26 not exactly a handset but very similar hardware Aug 28 14:23:09 there were jogglers too Aug 28 14:24:13 to me it seems very weird to have a linux device that uses an Intel GMA500 graphics chip and runs a Adobe Flash interface Aug 28 14:24:57 Just get an N900 if you need a handset. Aug 28 14:25:07 i don't think anyone who actually bought one uses the default OS Aug 28 14:25:11 beagle board has the same processor Aug 28 14:25:16 CosmoHill, consider the Motorola "Linux" handsets. Aug 28 14:25:17 as the N900 Aug 28 14:25:29 LoCusF_, more or less. Aug 28 14:29:27 GAN900: yeah Aug 28 16:02:33 was meego for netbook ever updated? Aug 28 16:03:12 seems not Aug 28 16:03:15 updated in what way ? linux meego version 1.0 to 1.0.1 to 1.1 to 1.2 ? or updated as in yum/zypper update ? Aug 28 16:03:37 the OS was really buggy Aug 28 16:03:45 renegaid: sure it was? there has been several updated Aug 28 16:03:46 s Aug 28 16:03:48 yes it is a work in progress Aug 28 16:04:04 i just fouf it. Still on 1.0. Should have been 0.x Aug 28 16:04:08 there is no official product based on it yet, so expect it to be a little buggy Aug 28 16:04:42 is nokia the only one using it on phone Aug 28 16:04:53 i wonder if the market has room for yet another mobile os Aug 28 16:05:38 well, it technically just 'replaces' both moblin and meego with a bigger spread Aug 28 16:05:38 I think there are other devices adopting it, but its early days in the development process Aug 28 16:05:40 so it's not another Aug 28 16:05:40 :P Aug 28 16:06:26 I also don't consider Linux yes-another-mobile-os, its the SAME OS I can use on my desktop, media centre and super-computer Aug 28 16:07:23 the question should be, does the world have room for bespoke operating systems that don't offer anything compelling Aug 28 16:08:24 we've done 2 updates for the netbook Aug 28 16:08:53 http://meego.com/downloads/releases/updates Aug 28 16:09:16 After you install 1.0, you can run the updater to get a bunch of bug fixes Aug 28 16:10:36 * Mat_Matan slaps around a bit with a large E63-1 Aug 28 16:27:24 Jest tu ktoś mówiący po polsku? || There is someone who speaks Polish? Aug 28 16:29:14 Mat_Matan: i'm a foreigner who speaks horribly little polish as i live in warsaw Aug 28 16:29:15 :P Aug 28 16:30:39 what about pocket computers / smart phones. have any devices been scheduled for release. (maybe you don't know that here as this is meego talk, but who knows) Aug 28 16:32:18 I created Polish Meego channel (meego-pl) but I need help with the setup it send some information about it Aug 28 16:32:37 *and send... Aug 28 16:35:18 mm, since it's nieofficialjny it should be called ##meego-pl Aug 28 16:35:29 according to freenode rules Aug 28 16:35:36 dd Aug 28 16:36:31 Mat_Matan: if it was official i guess it'd go through normal community office process, but we don't really have a policy.. Aug 28 16:36:32 seems like my mobile client is gonna need some getting used to Aug 28 16:37:51 it's normal, look at #debian-pl #ubuntu-pl and others Aug 28 16:38:25 There is no obligation to write ## Aug 28 16:40:21 Mat_Matan: http://freenode.net/policy.shtml#primarychannels applies. But anyway, i don't think it's a bad idea to possibly having country channels, but those would have to be organised underneath the meego project somehow Aug 28 16:41:36 Mat_Matan: those channels are official, the ## applies to inofficial channels Aug 28 16:43:26 general rule is that #meego* is owned by the project itself or representants of it Aug 28 16:43:27 oh, they\re not official, never mind me :) Aug 28 16:43:34 well, or accepted by project Aug 28 16:44:38 either way, just letting you know :P Aug 28 16:44:51 we should talk to Margie to get her thoughts on local language IRC channels & run them through the localization processes Aug 28 16:44:54 :nod: Aug 28 16:45:14 Margie is the expert there & I would support her decision Aug 28 16:45:15 i think there's a point to local language IRC channels, .. often the l10n community exists and becomes in those too Aug 28 16:45:34 it's better than maintaining a million localized mailing lists :) Aug 28 16:45:38 just has to be done in a way where there's no doubt that it's somehow affiliated to project Aug 28 16:45:39 (selfish reasoning) Aug 28 16:45:56 exactly, which is why we need to go through Margie Aug 28 16:46:01 :nod: Aug 28 16:46:32 Mat_Matan: can you post something about this to the localization mailing list? Aug 28 16:46:53 Mat_Matan: http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-il10n Aug 28 16:47:15 * Stskeeps wouldn't mind a -pl for selfish reasons too, would be useful to know some meego peeps in poland :) Aug 28 16:47:55 stskeeps: and you can practice your Polish :) Aug 28 16:48:04 hehe Aug 28 16:48:33 i should really sign up for next level of courses.. was a bit beat down by the fact i managed to pass the same level twice by accident (changed from intensive to non-intensive and ended up with twice level A1 ;) Aug 28 16:49:08 but since i'll have to travel at least monthly from now on, following a steady course will be difficult Aug 28 16:52:17 Stskeeps: you could have a look at the foreign-service-institute course material. it is also suitable for self-study Aug 28 16:52:51 :nod: Aug 28 16:52:52 * dm8tbr uses that for training his finncrypt codec and it's pretty nice, most languages come with 'tapes' Aug 28 16:53:15 i do have some books/audio i could put back into use i guess Aug 28 16:53:19 2k+ pages of material for free as pdf files in my case :) Aug 28 16:55:20 meh, no files for polish on http://www.fsi-language-courses.org/Content.php Aug 28 16:55:53 I vote for forcing the world to agree on english (even though my primary language is swedish) Aug 28 16:56:40 c3l: i would just go for telepathy. Aug 28 16:57:10 Stskeeps: http://www.fsi-language-courses.org/Content.php?page=Off%20Site - one pdf for polish :) Aug 28 16:57:18 dm8tbr: thanks Aug 28 16:58:49 indeed, i've been using telepathy alot, problem is though, its hard to get people to respond :( Aug 28 16:59:56 shiiiiit, I just took a look at the PDF and now have an poland-in-the-80s flashback! Aug 28 17:02:23 so, i don't have choice, i must close channel Aug 28 17:02:38 Mat_Matan: nah, we didn't say that :) Aug 28 17:03:12 heya Stskeeps Aug 28 17:03:19 Mat_Matan: this is first time someone is making a language-specific channel so we'd like to ask you to talk to the person in charge of localization/l10n Aug 28 17:03:34 Mat_Matan: so we can make your channel official properly Aug 28 17:05:15 Weeeee :D Aug 28 17:07:07 Hi, I'm playing around with IVI and had a couple of questions. I noted that there are very few init scripts in /etc/init.d/ -- with things like gpsd missing from there. Are init scripts used to start apps/dameons? Aug 28 17:09:31 smithna: rc.sysinit does a lot of them and dbus activation Aug 28 17:11:15 Stskeeps: don't know about dbus activation (off to google) Aug 28 17:11:21 last link for Stskeeps - I promise - http://sites.google.com/site/soyouwanttolearnalanguage/languagee-books4 - looks like a load of material :) Aug 28 17:15:13 dm8tbr: ta Aug 28 17:18:26 Talking gps... while googling I noted that both gpsd and gypsy are installed. Some of the messages I came across suggest gypsy is the *default* solution -- but I couldn't find any place talking about how it connects to a gps device. Aug 28 17:18:40 Does anyone know how it does that? Aug 28 17:18:50 smithna: not offhand, maybe a good question for meego-dev@ Aug 28 17:20:48 mailing list or channel? (forgive the ignores) Aug 28 17:21:04 mailing list Aug 28 17:21:14 Ok, thanks Aug 28 17:42:54 RST38h, wonder where your non-free stuff will end up for MeeGo. Aug 28 18:02:32 congrats on reaching beta folks Aug 28 18:17:20 ScottishDuck, which beta? Aug 28 18:17:40 well, 1.0.90 is beta branch Aug 28 18:17:52 or as we call it, panic time Aug 28 18:17:54 ;) Aug 28 18:23:30 yes, I can imagine Stskeeps Aug 28 18:24:14 but there's always 1.2, can't say we did badly in n900 this time around Aug 28 18:24:14 :P Aug 28 18:30:30 can't believe I've not overclocked my n900 until now Aug 28 18:30:35 this is so much better Aug 28 18:31:52 if you'd like to say bye bye to your screen or lower life expectancy of your n900 Aug 28 18:31:52 :P Aug 28 18:32:04 well Aug 28 18:32:17 I'll probably have a new phone soon anyway Aug 28 18:32:25 exploding phone could persuade me Aug 28 18:38:57 NOLO keeps a log of every time you flash? Aug 28 18:45:11 no Aug 28 18:46:41 what's this then? http://pastebin.com/Ua3Exhvm Aug 28 18:55:33