**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Sep 14 02:59:57 2010 Sep 14 05:52:06 morning Sep 14 05:55:51 morn Sep 14 06:54:12 Morning Sep 14 08:06:01 Hi, I am new to MeeGo platform and I was trying to look up for some development tools specially related to profiling that are available with MeeGo. I ran in to documentation page of Maemo5 that lists down some dev tools. Under MeeGo documentation I am not able to find anything relevant. Can someone please guide me on it? Sep 14 08:18:23 keya, oprofile, valgrind Sep 14 08:18:40 keya, The Maemo tools should work for meego on arm Sep 14 08:18:58 For meego on Atom, your usual desktop profiling & debugging tools should work Sep 14 08:19:06 (sysprof, for example) Sep 14 08:22:21 hi Sep 14 08:22:29 Nokia World 2010 is started ? Sep 14 08:22:32 anybody manages repos on http://hg.meego.com/ Sep 14 08:22:47 hg ? Sep 14 08:22:54 mercurial ? Sep 14 08:23:14 I though they developed everything on gitorious Sep 14 08:28:11 dneary> Thanks. Alright. I will check Maemo5 tools then. But why are they not mentioned under MeeGo development tools. Sep 14 08:28:41 keya, A young project, some of the docs haven't been created yet Sep 14 08:28:59 You might want to copy the Maemo developer tools page over to the MeeGo wiki? Sep 14 08:29:34 dneary> I can try that. Can I get back to you on that? Sep 14 08:37:40 No meego product launch today Sep 14 08:37:43 ouch Sep 14 08:37:53 Was there meant to be one? Sep 14 08:38:04 Khertan_: there's still tomorrow Sep 14 08:38:16 Khertan_: the event is taking place tomorrow as well Sep 14 08:38:19 Kubuntiac: nope just some hope for announce Sep 14 08:38:19 : Sep 14 08:38:21 :) Sep 14 08:38:30 Why today, specifically? Sep 14 08:38:40 yep good point :) Sep 14 08:38:57 (even if *any* day is a good day for a MeeGo product announcement :) Sep 14 08:40:20 Kubuntiac, nokia world 2010 has just started Sep 14 08:40:31 Ahhhhh........ Sep 14 08:40:47 and some minutes ago, there will be no meego product announcements Sep 14 08:40:52 hoped for N9 product announcement Sep 14 08:40:53 more of that later this year Sep 14 08:41:01 *sigh* Sep 14 08:41:12 who's there? Sep 14 08:41:18 The rumor I heard was October-November Sep 14 08:41:36 Kubuntiac, it's hard to say when there will be the official announcement Sep 14 08:41:48 I planned to go there, but flights prices tampered this plan :) Sep 14 08:41:50 Sure Sep 14 08:41:51 and it's even harder to say, when they start selling it Sep 14 08:42:06 Before Christmas, hopefully! Sep 14 08:42:06 not this year Sep 14 08:42:12 really?! Sep 14 08:42:20 so if snybody can shed some insight of the event there , that'll be great. Sep 14 08:42:37 I'm all ears... Sep 14 08:42:38 Kubuntiac, I'm sure you will be able to order it this year :) Sep 14 08:42:50 well Nokia is very unlikely to sell a product 2months after an announcement Sep 14 08:43:02 * Kubuntiac is trying to hold back his wife from ordering an Android device Sep 14 08:43:02 see nokia N8 Sep 14 08:43:18 it was announced in...may ? Sep 14 08:43:30 it should be available in october Sep 14 08:43:32 vlj, I'm with you on that Sep 14 08:43:38 however, when it comes to meego Sep 14 08:43:46 I think we need to allow the time for the product to mature out of public for sometime before it goes to sales Sep 14 08:43:49 not the N9, maybe other products Sep 14 08:44:00 like tablets Sep 14 08:44:16 just like the others did, they held back announcment until they felt it was enough time in private maturing process. Sep 14 08:44:23 I think tablets will be top christmas presents this year Sep 14 08:44:38 sivang: well Noka can sells a "hoobyist phone" like n900 Sep 14 08:44:51 hobbyist* Sep 14 08:45:49 vlj: but it creates negative traction for what I've seen so far.. Sep 14 08:46:03 johd: Absolutely. Seems to me if MeeGo doesn't ship *something* for Christmas, that they'll have a very hard time carving out brand recognition next year with the way Android / Apple are going. Sep 14 08:46:16 well N900 users are satisfaying with it Sep 14 08:46:28 vlj: since the voice of the hobbyist mostly is drown in the shouts of the mob :) Sep 14 08:46:32 Kubuntiac: and next year you'll have windows phone 7 Sep 14 08:46:38 Ewwwwwwww Sep 14 08:46:47 No. I wont. ;P Sep 14 08:47:08 I see WP7 as a stronger competitor for Meego than Android or iOS Sep 14 08:47:17 WP7 will be the "new things" Sep 14 08:47:19 like Meego Sep 14 08:47:24 keya, Sure! Sep 14 08:47:38 WP7? Never heard of it.... Sep 14 08:47:46 another troll for winders Sep 14 08:47:47 Ah, Windows Phone 7 Sep 14 08:47:49 windows phone 7 ;) Sep 14 08:48:03 Ok... I *wish* I'd never heard of it Sep 14 08:48:17 oh woops didn't notice this wasn't #meego.. so offtopic Sep 14 08:48:19 vlj: ask around and see what people, even top notch developers say when you suggest they get an N900, "iPhone!" Sep 14 08:48:50 vlj: the satisfied audience for that is the Nokia fan hobbyist Sep 14 08:48:53 well WP7 and Meego release are close, and WP7 have already support from Samsung, LG... Sep 14 08:48:56 like me, and others who love this device Sep 14 08:49:04 Kubuntiac, you never know Sep 14 08:49:17 My sister (not in IT) got an n900. I was stunned. I meant to ask her how she decided on that... Sep 14 08:49:26 Wp7. LOL Sep 14 08:49:52 Kubuntiac, it's a bit different since the Galaxies are Andoid devices Sep 14 08:49:53 Kubuntiac: I guess she's far sighted and less driven by eye candy but more with functionality than the average Jange Sep 14 08:49:57 Kubuntiac: *Jane Sep 14 08:50:13 however, a lot of people wouldn't buy samsung phones, since they are well known for lack of support Sep 14 08:50:17 Yeah, she's pretty cool. Sep 14 08:50:29 and out of nothing, with just one device, things changed Sep 14 08:50:31 at least here Sep 14 08:50:33 in Austria Sep 14 08:50:45 Kubuntiac: but from some surveys I did, people think and act as if iPhone is the only sane answer for a smartphone. Sep 14 08:50:50 what I mean is : WP7 is a well know brand. It will have flagship device Sep 14 08:51:05 vlj: but it will run Windows no? :) Sep 14 08:51:07 go on the street an ask anybody if they know Meego Sep 14 08:51:16 sivang - Yeah, my mother calls all smartphones "iphones". Says she doesn't know what you call other phones :( Sep 14 08:51:34 Kubuntiac: we need to market a change for that, yes Sep 14 08:51:57 Kubuntiac: as the MeeGo/N900 devices are not phones, they are something beyond. Sep 14 08:52:00 if Nokia delays too much the release of a Meego flagship it may become an issue Sep 14 08:52:01 sivang: True. I suspect that will be easier when we have a product shipping. Sep 14 08:52:06 iPhone reminds me about the instructions howto hold the phone :) Sep 14 08:52:48 Kubuntiac: but it must be this time released not for the hobbyest alone, but polished and top notch for everyone. Sep 14 08:53:03 My inlaws just went out and bought 3 of the ****'d things. (iPhones) I'm surrounded. Thank $DIETY for my sister. :) Sep 14 08:53:20 I would find it awesome if Nokia allowed people to install Meego on N8 Sep 14 08:53:24 sivang: Absolutely. Sep 14 08:53:45 vlj: I posted a thread to the ML about this sometime ago, of OS choice Sep 14 08:53:56 vlj: I also think it'd be great to be able to do something like this. Sep 14 08:54:02 yup Sep 14 08:54:22 sadly Nokia never allowed people to root their device Sep 14 08:54:50 such a conceited thought Sep 14 08:55:20 vlj: well, they have with the N900, the first of all vendors I think Sep 14 08:55:44 ok so I correct my sentence Sep 14 08:55:59 sadly Nokia never allowed people to root their Symbian device ;) Sep 14 08:56:05 hehe Sep 14 08:56:15 nexus one is the _only_ android device that I know of that does allow rooting of device Sep 14 08:56:17 vlj: but they made it fairly easy to sign code so it wasn't really necessary? Sep 14 08:56:30 apart from n900 Sep 14 08:56:50 easy rooting Sep 14 08:57:08 but you can virtually root any android device with hack Sep 14 08:57:20 keyword: hack Sep 14 08:57:24 :) Sep 14 08:57:24 yup Sep 14 08:57:35 there is no hack for symbian device Sep 14 08:57:41 there are Sep 14 08:57:58 and you can put, let's say, android on them ? Sep 14 08:58:01 or Meego ? Sep 14 08:58:29 hi all :) Sep 14 08:58:40 no because nokia refuses to freely hand out specifications of their other phones much like the rest of the other phone manufacturers Sep 14 08:58:56 but that's a different kind of hack, that's installing another OS.. you can jailbreak shitian Sep 14 08:58:59 um.. Sep 14 08:58:59 :P Sep 14 08:59:13 well...you can install debian on Android phone Sep 14 08:59:26 in chroot? Sep 14 08:59:28 you cannot install debian on Symbian phone Sep 14 08:59:31 no for real Sep 14 08:59:42 they did it for nexus one Sep 14 08:59:43 which android? nexus? Sep 14 08:59:46 lol Sep 14 08:59:48 Vlj. Only if you have root access on the phone Sep 14 08:59:54 yup Sep 14 09:00:04 ok that falls into my exception category, so I've got that covered already Sep 14 09:00:14 but on Symbian phone this is not doable, even with a hack Sep 14 09:00:17 Which again, you need to hack to get Sep 14 09:00:34 much like you can also install moebian on n900 or nitdroid or meego if you dared Sep 14 09:01:30 my guess is: if do not mess up with the boot loader. You can always go back :) Sep 14 09:01:40 Psycho - other android phones can run debian, natively, as long as you have root access Sep 14 09:01:46 and yeah ! I would like to see meego on the N8 platform Sep 14 09:02:00 anyone know how to shutdown meego gracefully on the n900? Sep 14 09:02:09 Besides the nexus one that is Sep 14 09:02:24 :) take out the battery ^^ Sep 14 09:02:36 TermanaDesire, apart from the fact that its not as easy to jailbreak android Sep 14 09:02:38 fabiomssilva: gracefully ;-) Sep 14 09:02:43 Toggles - battery pull is the only way Sep 14 09:02:50 Cheers Sep 14 09:03:11 though its still better than shitian, that OS runs on almost anything with puny amounts of RAM, etc Sep 14 09:03:13 toggles_1: ssh in and run shutdown? :) Sep 14 09:03:50 it would be nice to be able to hack Symbian so that you can, for instance, install debian on it Sep 14 09:04:02 then you can virtually install any os you want...like Meego Sep 14 09:04:07 Signed firmware, forget it. Sep 14 09:04:46 you can install winders if you like, in wine environment Sep 14 09:04:46 I know Sep 14 09:04:56 Psycho - well actually, it was 1 click for this desire. But I rather have it like my n900 - no hacks needed Sep 14 09:05:07 Symbian phone are tied to Symbian Sep 14 09:06:22 TermanaDesire, meh some androids I've read are harder to break, there was that motorola one I think it was called droid x was reported to have a fuse which will split if jailbroken lol Sep 14 09:06:42 Qt for symbian3 is big plus, though Sep 14 09:07:06 lol :) Motorola Droid and N900 are the same HW platform :P Sep 14 09:07:09 crysaz: but it's nothing in comparaison to the future qt for Meego Sep 14 09:07:18 though I really don't know and don't care :) android still lacks the things that I desire apart from it running linux kernel Sep 14 09:07:34 if you can install debian on N8 you can install Meego Sep 14 09:07:37 vlj: that's what i feared. Sep 14 09:07:55 Psycho - yep. Some of them are a pain. Motorola phones are generally bad in this department. Sep 14 09:08:04 psycho_oreos: like ? Sep 14 09:08:25 Fabio. - like gnu Sep 14 09:08:27 * crysaz following engadgets live coverage from nokia world Sep 14 09:08:33 ^^ Sep 14 09:08:37 fabiomssilva, complete freedom to do whatever you like without having to jailbreaking it.. raw hardware level access, access to gnu tools Sep 14 09:08:46 Damn it I'm typing blindly on this post Sep 14 09:08:55 Pos * Sep 14 09:10:04 I don't like things that I pay for that plays games with me, been there done that with symbian on me n95-1.. no more Sep 14 09:10:12 oreos: this kind of freedom bring a lot of entropy to the enviroment :) Mobile operators do not like entropy ;) Sep 14 09:10:31 fabiomssilva, quite untrue if n900 were retailed at some retailers Sep 14 09:10:39 But still I do not see any reason way I can not buy one ... ok .. aava can be the exception :) Sep 14 09:11:05 the only freedom that n900 lacked was cellular/mobile stuff which is proprietary for some obscure reason Sep 14 09:11:12 aava? Sep 14 09:11:15 psycho_oreos: not anymore Sep 14 09:11:24 psycho_oreos: i made a phonecall on a completely open stack the other week Sep 14 09:11:24 psycho_oreos: the 2000$ dev phone Sep 14 09:11:42 Here in Australia we have operators selling the n900 Sep 14 09:11:46 Stskeeps, on n900? interesting, when will it be publicly available? Sep 14 09:11:54 vlj, and that is? lol Sep 14 09:12:13 Its also rather popular here from what I've seen Sep 14 09:12:23 if finland you have N900 for sale :) Sep 14 09:12:27 psycho_oreos: wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Features/CallAudio Sep 14 09:12:30 TermanaDesire, yeh I got mine on contract, so its not like they won't sell phones that have bit more flexibility compared to others Sep 14 09:12:35 psycho_oreos: http://www.aavamobile.com/downloads.php Sep 14 09:12:40 psycho_oreos: we're waiting to integrate it atm Sep 14 09:12:42 Stskeeps, ahh dang Sep 14 09:12:47 and it costs (really) 2000 $ Sep 14 09:13:31 vlj, and powered by android... lol Sep 14 09:13:36 no Sep 14 09:13:45 I have asked for a quote ..... and I did not get any reply from them :( .. Sep 14 09:13:47 I think it is powered by nothing when you buy it Sep 14 09:13:56 it boots from a microsd Sep 14 09:13:59 you need to install the OS first Sep 14 09:14:06 powered by SDK ;) Sep 14 09:14:29 (this is not a phone for the average consumer ) Sep 14 09:14:40 vlj, and its really open eh the company.. click on specifications page and nothing in detail about the chipsets used apart from the fact that its powered by intel Sep 14 09:14:53 all the specs are for the average consumer :) Sep 14 09:15:03 maybe onlu the price is not :) Sep 14 09:15:16 and the fact that you need to install your os before using it ;) Sep 14 09:15:27 yep. says "not FCC approved" and "Not type approved" under the battery.. Sep 14 09:15:28 The savage is not a consumer device Sep 14 09:15:37 Aava * Sep 14 09:15:38 in other words it'll have broadcrap bluetooth and intel wireless? not really open there Sep 14 09:15:48 psycho_oreos: it is moorestown powered, specs for moorestown are publicy know Sep 14 09:16:51 vlj, I have read that intel did acquire some cellular chipset company, but even at that, where's the bluetooth connectivity? is that also provided on the very same cpu? Sep 14 09:17:05 i don't know Sep 14 09:17:22 I'm not interested by aava phone :p Sep 14 09:17:39 I think intel is going to get in on the phone chips soon ... with SoC (System on a Chip) stuff Sep 14 09:17:45 despite pointing it out, so much for the hype Sep 14 09:17:54 they are Sep 14 09:18:08 vlj: I am .. I want to try it. ! Sep 14 09:18:18 it's funny to see them circling back this way after buying and selling off their ARM-related IP Sep 14 09:18:55 it's not that funny...they smell money and they want to push their x86 solution to phones Sep 14 09:19:54 vlj: well they bought ARM IP, the made some ARM chips, they decided they wanted out of the game, then waited a couple years for others to dominate the market and now they want back in Sep 14 09:20:15 they probably hated the idea of cross compiling, now that marvell may reap the benefit of strongARM Sep 14 09:20:39 because they trying to make x86 dominate ARM Sep 14 09:21:13 though at the same time as they were doing the ARM thing they were trying to make Itanium dominate X86 :) Sep 14 09:21:41 yep ;) Sep 14 09:22:03 competition... always good !!! :) Sep 14 09:22:05 lol itanium Sep 14 09:22:44 psycho_oreos: my little marvell kirkwood-based NAS would actually make a decent little build box for native compiles, coincidentally Sep 14 09:23:51 johnx, I'm not doubting the power of native compiling on a ARM core itself, there's some n900 users who do native compiling on their own devices as well but some things intel does makes you wonder doesn't it? Sep 14 09:25:07 psycho_oreos: yeah. it seems like they fall asleep on the job, then wake up and work their butts off for a couple years to make up for it Sep 14 09:25:49 johnx, that's even worse excuse then what I had :) Sep 14 09:26:16 but I'm sure in either ways they're desperate to push x86 wherever they think it can go Sep 14 09:28:16 but it's true! They totally missed the boat when AMD had the Athlon and all Intel had was the dead-end P4 arch. But they caught up with the Core series. They were pushing Itanium when AMD had X86-64, but they caught up there too. Now ARM is way out ahead in the mobile space. I'm half expecting them to suddenly pull a totally power-sipping X86 chip out of, ahem, thin air any day now Sep 14 09:28:29 but the longer they wait, the more ARM is cemented in the market place Sep 14 09:29:50 * johnx sleeps now Sep 14 09:35:30 johnx: even if they were not on par with amd performancewise at the P4 time, they still sold more chipsets than amd. Sep 14 09:36:23 and it's not even sure that their current processor is more powerfull than their amd counterpart Sep 14 09:36:35 they are...just on windows Sep 14 09:36:53 on linux amd processors get more performance Sep 14 09:37:31 it seems to be faster, yes, not sure about precise measrument Sep 14 09:37:53 amd is more close to RISC than x86 right? Sep 14 09:38:05 well x86 is x86 Sep 14 09:38:08 I mean, x86 has some sort of abstraction layer on top of it. Sep 14 09:38:24 no idea Sep 14 09:39:59 sort of Sep 14 09:40:13 it's part of pipeline Sep 14 09:40:23 none of the CPUs designed on this decade have had much to do with x86 ISA on their internal execution units Sep 14 09:40:25 what I mean is that Intel has a long relationship with microsoft, and has some unfair practice (biaised compilation) in their history Sep 14 09:40:38 frontend takes x86 instructions Sep 14 09:40:52 and then translates them, rearanges, caches Sep 14 09:41:01 on the other side, amd has put lot of effort in improving gcc for their processor Sep 14 09:41:13 jacekowski: yes, and in general, program-view semantics are maintained. but not much else for a long time... Sep 14 09:41:24 intel put less effort into gcc Sep 14 09:41:32 well, intell have their own icc Sep 14 09:41:37 intel* Sep 14 09:41:52 yep Sep 14 09:41:54 Who actually uses it though Sep 14 09:41:57 i do Sep 14 09:42:00 :p Sep 14 09:42:03 it's much better than gcc Sep 14 09:42:39 execution units in cpu are not risc Sep 14 09:42:44 the power of intel is in its partnership, its software collection, things like that Sep 14 09:42:48 it's still x86 Sep 14 09:43:06 so performance measurement are quite biaised Sep 14 09:47:21 I don't mean that intel processor are not as good as amd one Sep 14 09:48:01 I just say that it is difficult to stat objectivly about the superiority of a brand on another one Sep 14 09:48:28 and that Intel is still the king on x86 market Sep 14 09:52:08 vlj: long long long long time ago. To make a AMD uP work properly was a pain ! I still have that trauma :) (K7 ages...) Sep 14 09:55:12 K7, heh nostalgia Sep 14 09:55:38 pain ? :) Sep 14 09:56:38 hi Sep 14 09:57:37 I am looking for the sources for the package libsocialweb-qt Sep 14 09:57:43 are those public somewhere? Sep 14 09:58:07 'have you try here : http://qt.gitorious.org/ Sep 14 09:58:08 ? Sep 14 09:58:38 it is here: http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-middleware/libsocialweb Sep 14 10:00:03 fabiomssilva: both not Sep 14 10:00:50 libsocialweb-qt Sep 14 10:01:40 opsss.. wrong window Sep 14 10:01:40 ;) Sep 14 10:05:58 ok :) should be that one: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/daily/core/repos/source/ Sep 14 10:06:09 you have the source RPM there Sep 14 10:06:10 :) Sep 14 10:06:24 fabiomssilva: thank you :-) Sep 14 10:13:22 Howdy folks Sep 14 10:13:39 was at IBS yesterday, saw meego in a few places Sep 14 10:13:49 some places I'm sure it shouldn't have been, but how and ever Sep 14 10:19:18 slaine, ex? Sep 14 10:20:41 smoku: sorry, IBC, not ibs Sep 14 10:22:40 slaine, :) an EXample of where it shouldn't have been? :) Sep 14 10:23:02 ah, thought you'd typo'd 'eh' Sep 14 10:23:43 sorry for being lazy ;-) Sep 14 10:24:40 just one or two small booths for nondescript companies with android and meego logo's about the place but nothing really to show Sep 14 10:25:06 The amino booth was good, had a good chat with one of the guys there about the MeeGo OTT box they're doing Sep 14 10:25:17 is it hackable? Sep 14 10:25:24 Not sure Sep 14 10:25:38 There's definitely some behind the scenes stuff happening there Sep 14 10:25:50 most likely Sep 14 10:25:52 It's one of the CE Atom's Sep 14 10:26:09 1080p decoding etc. Sep 14 10:26:15 i think for the not-yet-in-meego UX'es and verticals, we will see a shitload of political stuff.. Sep 14 10:26:40 Actually the UI on that amino is open Sep 14 10:26:54 scary Sep 14 10:26:54 ls Sep 14 10:26:58 The drivers though is what I'd wonder about Sep 14 10:27:14 You'll be surprised when I tell you it's a skinned version of xbmc Sep 14 10:27:22 not surprised Sep 14 10:27:28 I was Sep 14 10:27:56 It's still very much an early proof of concept device Sep 14 10:28:10 doesn't do triple play, which is the amino bread and butter Sep 14 10:28:11 it is actually the best kind of device Sep 14 10:28:18 easy to productize :P Sep 14 10:28:19 take meego Sep 14 10:28:22 nod Sep 14 10:28:23 drop whatever interface on Sep 14 10:28:23 :P Sep 14 10:28:37 that's the goal of meego though, which is great Sep 14 10:29:29 hopefully though the differentiation between each manufacturer wont make them compete amongst themselves instead of growing a strong combined presence Sep 14 10:30:08 its no good having a flock of headless chickens Sep 14 10:30:39 wow Sep 14 10:30:50 I hate to tell you, but this is manufacturers were talking about Sep 14 10:31:01 I see Boxee dropped the tegra2 for the same intel CPU/GPU Sep 14 10:31:15 Meaning your getting headless chickens weather you want them or not Sep 14 10:31:20 the intel atom CD4100 SoC Sep 14 10:31:30 That's also the processor powering the new google tv platform Sep 14 10:31:45 TermanaDesire, not at all, its entirely possible for companies to work together to produce something greater than the sum of parts Sep 14 10:33:50 TermanaDesire, make the meego experience so fucking good that no real differentiation is needed between manufacturers Sep 14 10:34:04 that the standard stack is so hot everyone wants it on their hardware Sep 14 10:36:35 * Myrtti comes back from the coffee run Sep 14 10:36:38 tea, coffee anyone? Sep 14 10:36:42 please Sep 14 10:37:05 Lcuk - the thing is manufactures want to be different. Otherwise why buy one thing over the other Sep 14 10:37:47 faster...better... bigger ... sexy.... etc :) Sep 14 10:37:47 buy it because its got a faster cpu or a brighter screen or because the telsupport is in the home country or whatever fudging thing PC companies use Sep 14 10:38:42 but consumers NEED to know that if an app is released for meego it will work on their meego device Sep 14 10:38:47 but yeah you can see on the Android. Manufacturers always want to add a bit of their own stuff ...... Sep 14 10:39:34 that is what have made iPhone the king of the smart phones on this days .... Sep 14 10:39:40 how many times do you buy a windows pc based on the differentiation? Sep 14 10:39:55 Differing experiences shouldn't change the application compatibility Sep 14 10:40:17 here's a thought Sep 14 10:40:34 put your shoes on, jacket on, and go outside and smell the fresh air. Sep 14 10:40:46 take a couple of deep breathes and come back in Sep 14 10:40:56 i did yesterday Myrtti :) i was walking around the Manchester library smelling real books and talking with real people Sep 14 10:41:02 and I am just getting ready to do same Sep 14 10:41:20 lcuk, you're living in the past man Sep 14 10:41:21 lol Sep 14 10:41:43 Lol Sep 14 10:41:44 slaine, I have the future very firmly in my sights Sep 14 10:43:07 Stop staring at your graave Sep 14 10:43:20 Grave* Sep 14 10:43:21 I tell you what guys. I'm REALLY struggling with my phone at the hospital. The last two years of always connected commuting has changed me Sep 14 10:44:13 slaine, I am surprised you can use a computer at all Sep 14 10:44:22 I find this bickering within the community a bit disheartening. Why do people have a need to argue instead of concentrating on being productive Sep 14 10:44:40 especially a wireless mobile Sep 14 10:44:48 lcuk: I could've taken and in fact did take my laptop to the hospital last year for my gallbladder operation Sep 14 10:45:13 the hospitals encourage it, in fact, thought they state they can't be held responsible if your gear gets lost or stolen Sep 14 10:45:22 s/thought/though/ Sep 14 10:45:22 Myrtti meant: the hospitals encourage it, in fact, though they state they can't be held responsible if your gear gets lost or stolen Sep 14 10:45:27 :) Myrtti I don't bicker Sep 14 10:46:07 and I thought wireless stuff intefered with the life saving "bing" machines? Sep 14 10:46:20 lcuk: they're banned in ICU, that's about it. Sep 14 10:46:25 Hey Friends Sep 14 10:46:26 lcuk, yeah, laying tarmac driveways and carrying my sheleigly and potatoes usually keep me occupied. Sep 14 10:46:30 Joke of the day, Sep 14 10:46:36 Am new in this list Sep 14 10:47:04 I'd like to see the patient in ICU that wants to use their laptop and mobile phone - instead of getting better and out of ICU Sep 14 10:47:18 and i came here by thinking that it's the IRC for meego (An Operating System for Mobile Phones By Intel) Sep 14 10:47:20 :) Sep 14 10:47:29 by Intel? Sep 14 10:47:47 yes Sep 14 10:47:51 siji: not by intel, by the meego project :) Sep 14 10:47:59 it includes intel, nokia and many other contributors Sep 14 10:48:03 Ultimately I'm still doing the same thing 90% of the time, that is listening to music while reading a book. But not being able to casually glance at mail/rss/twitter etc. is taking some getting used to Sep 14 10:48:08 yes right Sep 14 10:48:28 siji: so where is the joke? Sep 14 10:49:22 Myrtti, and after listening the current discussion I thought i am in Wrong Sep 14 10:49:34 Something related to Hospital or smthing :) Sep 14 10:49:45 Its called being a community Sep 14 10:50:04 We don't just talk about meego Sep 14 10:50:19 TermanaDesire, yes i know Sep 14 10:50:27 but for a while i got confused Sep 14 10:51:12 "A cloud of helium walks into a bar. The Bartender says: We don't serve noble gases here. The helium doesn't react." Sep 14 10:51:24 hey, is there a package browsing interface for MeeGo? a la packages.debian.org? Sep 14 10:51:31 Myrtti: groan :P Sep 14 10:52:09 Robot101: it was a joke, albeit a bad one Sep 14 10:53:16 Robot101: why haven't you guys said anything about the Cambs Local Meego thing? Sep 14 10:53:42 Robot101: or you, personally? :-> http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=1377 Sep 14 10:53:45 because we suck Sep 14 10:53:59 "you are going to comment and say you'll participate." Sep 14 10:54:11 * Myrtti wiggles her fingers Sep 14 10:54:43 I suck at Derren Brown impressions Sep 14 10:55:14 I think some of the guys have been worried, we've been accidentally trapped at parties by well-meaning but ultimately misinformed or very boring community members :P Sep 14 10:56:13 those parties clearly haven't been attended by yours truly Sep 14 10:56:58 perhaps, but these people can get you anywhere once they see your N900 :) Sep 14 10:58:02 wjt got into an argument with someone over whether tp-haze was evidence of the amazing power of the maemo community, or whether it was, in fact, him who wrote it not for maemo and someone else at collabora who packaged it for maemo on their work time Sep 14 10:58:09 Was any progress made on the generic x86 build ? Sep 14 10:58:25 it's a good thing I don't have one then... Sep 14 10:58:32 its those kind of things that make me want to remain a hermit :) Sep 14 11:01:03 well, good to know the Fens still have their hermits. Clearly all the geeks around here just sit in their dark caves alone staring the blue light of their screens. Sep 14 11:01:44 I'm in bed, not a cave, and its quite light :) Sep 14 11:02:09 I might go in to town for pizza at the cow now however Sep 14 11:02:25 Myrtti, green light ;-) Sep 14 11:21:13 what are Hermits? Sep 14 11:21:16 and Fens? Sep 14 11:22:15 http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Fenlander Sep 14 11:24:49 Myrtti, I have just checked Sep 14 11:24:53 what is this? Sep 14 11:24:57 the light looks more white than blue Sep 14 11:24:57 unmoderated wikipedia? Sep 14 11:25:39 but maybe that's because I haven't seen the sun in a while :ü Sep 14 11:30:04 sivang: More like a wikipedia spoof Sep 14 11:30:15 Kind of "stand-up wikipedia" Sep 14 11:30:40 collective satire Sep 14 11:37:48 ROFL @ Uncyclopedia Sep 14 11:37:56 gotta love em Sep 14 11:38:22 especially since there's even something about me in the Finnish one. Sep 14 11:40:46 aw, there's no article about the Silicon Fens Sep 14 11:40:50 ;___; Sep 14 11:41:52 irony, the sweet taste of it. There's more people interested about MeeGo networking in *TURKU* than in Cambridgeshire area. Sep 14 11:42:10 (atleast according to the forum) Sep 14 11:44:31 son, I am disappoint. Sep 14 12:31:09 Sep 14 12:41:06 meego isn't released yet? Sep 14 12:41:13 it is Sep 14 12:41:14 atleast fro N900? Sep 14 12:41:23 not for N900 Sep 14 12:41:32 dang it Sep 14 12:41:34 no final release at least Sep 14 12:41:42 there is a beta however Sep 14 12:41:56 wow Sep 14 12:43:38 ^___o Sep 14 13:20:48 I see ML threads referring to "Harmattan" What is it actually? :) Sep 14 13:21:00 thiago_london: whats up there in Nokia World? Sep 14 13:23:50 old maemo Sep 14 13:24:10 jacekowski: it is being presented there? Sep 14 13:24:13 hmm, or new one Sep 14 13:24:18 Harmattan is actually the MeeGo Nokia will put on their next iteration. Sep 14 13:24:31 Well, MeeGo.. hehe.. Sep 14 13:24:33 jacekowski: ah Sep 14 13:24:58 Let's call it a MeeGo aligned Maemo hybrid still running on deb. Sep 14 13:24:59 so meego-handset are actually working on Harmattan? Sep 14 13:25:17 err, meego-arm Sep 14 13:25:35 X-Fade: ah cool, so debs are still applicable there Sep 14 13:25:53 sivang: yes. Sep 14 13:28:03 so that's why OBS had been adopted to produce debs and rpms, cool Sep 14 13:28:27 unnews is evern funnier- http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/UnNews:God_vs._godly%3F haha Sep 14 13:58:40 Hey all... has anyone here had any luck getting MeeGo running in qemugl? I'm trying to follow the instructions at http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_SDK_with_QEMU but all I get after the menu is a black screen. Sep 14 13:58:45 im back Sep 14 13:59:04 I have Meego with netbook ux on a non sse3 supporting processor at the moment Sep 14 14:00:01 or more specifically... Sep 14 14:00:34 if I use the "Install" menu item I get a black screen; if I use the "run" menu item, I get "mount: / not mounted already, or bad option" and nothing further Sep 14 14:07:42 GordonS: why not running it for real ? Sep 14 14:08:24 because among my host of computers, I don't presently have a single one with both a new enough processor and Intel video Sep 14 14:09:42 if you have one with a nvidia card it may worth to try it Sep 14 14:10:11 Meego is netbook oriented, so an old processor would reflect how an atom can handle your applications ;) Sep 14 14:11:24 I currently type from Meego on an old Pentium 4 processor Sep 14 14:11:33 pre Prescott era Sep 14 14:11:56 vlj: I have lots of stuff with nVidia, and one with ATI... no worky Sep 14 14:12:09 and the only system I have with Intel video is a ThinkPad X30 Sep 14 14:12:26 which is roughly the *speed* of an Atom... because it's a P-III Sep 14 14:12:27 :) Sep 14 14:12:36 GordonS: bloody irritating isn't it ;) Sep 14 14:12:44 sorry, that should have been "*some* with ATI" Sep 14 14:12:50 yah yah Sep 14 14:12:52 GordonS: nVidia card work unofficially work with Meego Sep 14 14:13:30 wellll... I have gotten the netbook image (but not the handset image) to work on an nVidia system by replacing an OpenGL library Sep 14 14:13:38 but it is *gawdawful* slow Sep 14 14:14:03 like 2 seconds to click on an icon Sep 14 14:14:03 * CosmoHill is here and has a full tank of petrol :D Sep 14 14:14:22 since it doesn't have the right driver in X, it is not accelerated Sep 14 14:14:36 http://wiki.meego.com/User:Vljn Sep 14 14:15:43 you may want to test this image : http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZGVLD9K7 Sep 14 14:15:57 well, y'see - that's the trouble Sep 14 14:16:02 I need to use a pretty recent image Sep 14 14:16:21 I need 1.0.80.recent or 10.0.90 Sep 14 14:16:42 why ? Sep 14 14:16:57 for multi touch framework ? Sep 14 14:18:20 I did not try with newer build of meego Sep 14 14:19:13 brb Sep 14 14:22:16 vlj: because I am doing some specific development work Sep 14 14:22:42 how did you build that image? Sep 14 14:22:53 oh wait Sep 14 14:22:55 it even says there :) Sep 14 14:42:50 on netbook release, when doing alt-tab (or alt-right), sometime, meego is switching to vt1 Sep 14 14:43:04 (it seems to appear only after suspend but I'm not 100% sure) Sep 14 14:43:14 is there an opened bug for it (I haven't found any yet) Sep 14 14:50:36 mic-image-creator gives me a "file not found" error when it's trying to build a bootstrap ( http://pastebin.ca/1940606 ), but it doesn't tell me what file it can't find. Does this look familiar to anyone, before I start digging further? Sep 14 14:51:43 any wiki admins around? Sep 14 14:51:43 fcrozat: I encounter this bug as well Sep 14 14:52:34 marnanel: please give the whole mic output Sep 14 14:52:47 vlj: will do Sep 14 14:53:04 vlj: which meego release ? 1.0.0 or 1.0.x ? Sep 14 14:53:15 1.0.1 here Sep 14 14:53:19 or 1.0.2 Sep 14 14:53:27 or even 1.0.3 Sep 14 14:53:33 it's stated nowhere :/ Sep 14 14:53:51 ;) Sep 14 14:55:59 vlj: full output is at http://pastebin.ca/1940610 Sep 14 14:59:39 well I have no idea so far... Sep 14 14:59:54 if you type ps aux, is there a "[loop0]" process ? Sep 14 15:04:27 vlj: no, there isn't Sep 14 15:04:42 so I have no idea sorry Sep 14 15:05:23 vlj: thanks anyway. why did you ask about the [loop0] process? Sep 14 15:05:45 because I had an issue Sep 14 15:05:54 I had a [loop0] and [loop1] process Sep 14 15:06:16 it appeared they prevented mic from creating a proper fake filesystem Sep 14 15:06:23 interesting Sep 14 15:06:39 so mic was looking after a file that was not created Sep 14 15:06:51 do you know whether there is anywhere I can download a raw or livecd image without having to build it myself, since it appears not to be working? Sep 14 15:10:13 well there is the official Meego 1.0 release Sep 14 15:10:30 if you truly wants 1.1 you can update repository from Meego 1.0 Sep 14 15:13:02 that makes sense. I have a working copy of 1.0, but it's the netbook UX, not the handset UX. Sep 14 15:13:24 err sorry you wanted handset ux ? Sep 14 15:14:08 http://meego.com/downloads/releases/1.0.80.8/meego-handset-day1-developer-preview Sep 14 15:15:27 oh, of course. I'm not sure why I was trying to build it with mic. Sorry. Sep 14 15:40:50 sjokkis: simply because more people here can help Sep 14 15:40:55 lbt: works for me Sep 14 15:41:17 yeah ... -dev is more about when you get the device and start hacking Sep 14 15:41:31 initially you need to establish contact with the community Sep 14 15:41:47 one major difference is the whole rpm side btw Sep 14 15:42:09 so the code differences should be small but there'll be packaging Sep 14 15:42:26 and UI will be Qt rather than Gtk Sep 14 15:42:41 so... depends on your definition of "small" Sep 14 15:42:43 :) Sep 14 15:42:56 this isn't a GUI app Sep 14 15:43:08 though we'll be interested in integrating ourselves with existing GUI apps Sep 14 15:43:18 I know... but worth mentioning Sep 14 15:43:26 true Sep 14 15:43:31 you know what ZG is, right? Sep 14 15:43:39 not really Sep 14 15:43:58 zeitgeist is an event logging framework. whenever you watch a movie, listen to a song, take a call etc, we log that Sep 14 15:44:05 my job is that last bit Sep 14 15:44:16 OK ... so related to content tracker type things Sep 14 15:44:35 related, but this concerns events Sep 14 15:44:54 that information can be integrated in other applications, or used standalone Sep 14 15:45:07 yes... I guess > twitter is one kind of use Sep 14 15:45:18 or profiling Sep 14 15:45:19 for instance, along with an event we log time of day, and physical location Sep 14 15:45:34 both off which are interesting if used to establish usage patterns etc Sep 14 15:45:36 lifelogs... cool Sep 14 15:46:04 pretty much Sep 14 15:46:30 i think it would be very interesting to run this on meego Sep 14 15:46:35 this sounds like the kind of thing you'd want in the 'community libraries' part of MeeGo Sep 14 15:46:50 something other apps could build-dep on Sep 14 15:47:05 see the huge thread on meego-dev about meego-spec Sep 14 15:47:32 so... I can get you up on the beta meego community OBS Sep 14 15:48:06 but devices ... talk to DawnFoster (or qgil) ... or direct to mfgs Sep 14 15:48:09 that would be nice Sep 14 15:48:55 mfgs? Sep 14 15:49:02 manufacturers Sep 14 15:49:25 don't hold your breath :) There was a developer program for N900s last year but there won't (AFAIK) be any MeeGo devices at the upcoming conference in Dublin Sep 14 15:49:36 Are you going? Sep 14 15:49:53 http://conference2010.meego.com/ Sep 14 15:50:08 developers, developers... Sep 14 15:50:15 i wasn't planning on it, but if i'm sponsored, i don't see why not Sep 14 15:50:23 i'd have to talk it over with the other guys working on this Sep 14 15:50:33 anyone UK based? Sep 14 15:51:15 the other two are germans. i'm norwegian Sep 14 15:51:52 OK ... np .... there's a cheap device in the UK... but not worth the hassle now (it's got gfx issues) Sep 14 15:52:06 S^3 looks cute, can't wait to get a device to play with some Qt for it... Sep 14 15:53:12 lbt: seems like my partners in crime have applied Sep 14 15:53:18 so i guess i will too Sep 14 15:53:25 sjokkis, ZG isn't very descriptive - google tells me its a common abbreviation of a warcraft 20 man raid instance Zul'Gurub Sep 14 15:53:31 i wonder why the odd stance of no dev hardware at the show Sep 14 15:53:31 zeitgeist Sep 14 15:53:42 sjokkis: OK ... yell if you want an account on the trial OBS Sep 14 15:54:04 sjokkis, and google has their own zeitgeist Sep 14 15:54:08 link? Sep 14 15:54:28 * lcuk has a wonderful graffiti wall that enshrines that sort of principle Sep 14 15:54:34 TSCHAKeee2: blind guess by me. Sep 14 15:55:04 lcuk: http://zeitgeist-project.com/ Sep 14 15:55:22 lbt: i'd like an account Sep 14 15:55:28 TSCHAKeee2: Nokia don't seem likely to give away N900s... Intel? Dunno, maybe netbooks? Sep 14 15:55:41 N9 dev prototypes! Sep 14 15:55:46 kidding Sep 14 15:55:48 ;) Sep 14 15:56:07 lbt: they gave to the other guys on the team who requested platforms a year ago. they got theirs this summer Sep 14 15:58:50 sjokkis, then how come you didnt request last year yourself? Sep 14 15:59:20 lcuk: wasn't on the team yet Sep 14 16:01:21 the official public meego.com sdk revolves around the N900 which is openly available. I hope that is the device you are talking about :) but for clarities sake, I guess going back to your team leader and requesting by your official channels would be the best way :) Sep 14 16:02:48 lcuk: actually... what *are* the official channels? Sep 14 16:02:51 for meego hw Sep 14 16:03:25 idk Sep 14 16:03:29 but hes talking about a team Sep 14 16:03:34 and we arent his team Sep 14 16:03:42 hey lbt and lcuk Sep 14 16:04:54 o/ Sep 14 16:05:03 \o Sep 14 16:05:07 \o cosmo Sep 14 16:05:48 sjokkis: I got the feeling you were "just" on the scrounge for some HW for an OSS project which is well suited to MeeGo ? (just like me and Carsten last year with Mer ;) ) Sep 14 16:06:24 yeah, this is an OSS project Sep 14 16:06:39 when the other guys requested their platforms they did it individually, but on behalf of the project Sep 14 16:07:06 so... cool.... lcuk, I think this is the kind of thing MeeGo community should support Sep 14 16:07:14 i think lcuk overestimates how most OSS projects work if he thinks we have "official channels" Sep 14 16:07:32 lcuk: hell, it's a bitch getting meego compatible HW ;) Sep 14 16:07:42 of course Sep 14 16:08:09 ok sjokkis what platform did your other team members request, and did they make public requests for them? Sep 14 16:08:34 they requested a phone each from the maemo team Sep 14 16:08:40 they didn't say how, but it was right after last year's hackfet Sep 14 16:08:43 fest* Sep 14 16:08:53 i'm directing my request here since maemo and meego have merged Sep 14 16:09:10 i'm basically just here to find out where i should send my request, so you don't have to dig into me Sep 14 16:09:23 sjokkis, you are speaking of a platform Sep 14 16:09:35 which is more cagey than an n900 Sep 14 16:09:35 sjokkis: To repeat what lbt has said, no free meego protos for developers (yet) Sep 14 16:09:36 sjokkis: don't worry, lcuk's not doing that :) Sep 14 16:09:48 IMHO it's a bug that we don't have a request mechanism for this kind of thing Sep 14 16:09:59 there is a request queue for maemo Sep 14 16:10:04 sjokkis: meego is still very early compared to maemo Sep 14 16:10:25 and the different structure means Nokia isn't lurking quite so close behind Sep 14 16:10:26 sjokkis: But you can use an N900 todevelop meego handset apps Sep 14 16:10:43 there is, as lcuk states, a request system for maemo, and that is how the other guys on the team (2 of them, to be exact) were set up with their dev platforms (or phones, if you want to be that technical) Sep 14 16:10:57 RST38h: exactly. i'm here to get one Sep 14 16:11:00 in so many words Sep 14 16:11:21 and clarity arrives! :D Sep 14 16:11:25 for reference Sep 14 16:11:26 http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Developer_Device_Queue Sep 14 16:11:33 thats the open queue Sep 14 16:11:37 lcuk: no, we've been discussing on meego-dev too Sep 14 16:11:38 lbt, you are right Sep 14 16:11:51 I brought it here to get more people involved Sep 14 16:12:05 sjokkis was clear and polite so I helped :) Sep 14 16:12:30 yes, i'm guessing this conversation might have been a bit confusing to other people since we changed channels in the middle of it Sep 14 16:12:56 yeah... sorry... but useful Sep 14 16:13:09 sjokkis: Ok. So, you want to get into device queue for N900 then Sep 14 16:13:17 yes Sep 14 16:13:20 there is a wiki page Sep 14 16:13:28 i was wondering if meego had a queue of its own Sep 14 16:13:29 RST38h: good idea... but also we should bug Dawn.... she'll like that Sep 14 16:13:42 sjokkis: raise a bug... seriously Sep 14 16:13:43 lbt: I know what Dawn will tell you Sep 14 16:13:50 lbt: Wanna guess? Sep 14 16:13:54 RST38h: she loves me really :) Sep 14 16:14:00 lbt: Doesn't matter Sep 14 16:14:20 lbt: The standard answer is that you get an atom-based netbook and develop on it. Sep 14 16:14:28 yes, of course Sep 14 16:14:36 case closed Sep 14 16:14:39 NOT USEFUL FOR HANDSET Sep 14 16:14:41 -caps Sep 14 16:14:48 lcuk: Who cares? It is a Meego! Sep 14 16:14:50 but MeeGo community may/should have funds to support OSS projects too Sep 14 16:14:54 :) Sep 14 16:14:55 * RST38h smiles sadistically Sep 14 16:15:17 so I'm hoping Intel will bring a few hundred netbooks to Dublin.... Sep 14 16:15:24 i dualboot meego on a eee, but i'm not really interested in this unless i can make it work on handsets as well Sep 14 16:15:31 Besides you can probably compile and run Meego handset apps on it, as long as Qt mobile framework compiles Sep 14 16:16:04 lbt: Intel does not produce netbooks Sep 14 16:16:31 RST38h: I bet it can get them cheap Sep 14 16:16:39 cf usb-sticks Sep 14 16:16:53 which are given away as corporate candy Sep 14 16:16:53 lbt:probably not much cheaper than you can get them online Sep 14 16:16:55 we already have zeitgeist working on the meego netbook version Sep 14 16:17:01 so for me the next step is handsets Sep 14 16:24:13 sjokkis: given it's a non-gui app then what are you expecting to need from a handset? Sep 14 16:25:23 lbt: we need to make sure it works with incoming and outgoing phone calls, something we won't be able to do with a netbook, and once the handset version gets a gui we'll be interested in integrating zeitgeist with various gui applications Sep 14 16:26:19 *nod* Sep 14 16:27:40 lbt: we might also demo in dublin Sep 14 16:28:35 will the handset version (with a gui) be available by then? Sep 14 16:31:21 it's already out Sep 14 16:32:19 lbt: i didn't know that. i thought we only had a console version Sep 14 16:32:25 well, good news, everyone! Sep 14 16:33:31 console version of what? Sep 14 16:33:52 didn't the handset version previously boot to a coonsole? Sep 14 16:34:00 or terminal, if you prefer Sep 14 16:34:03 ahh Sep 14 16:34:05 yes Sep 14 16:34:12 yeah, that was back in May I believe Sep 14 16:41:08 Mario has 25 years! Viva la Nintendo! :D Sep 14 16:42:55 damn plumbers. Sep 14 16:49:26 sooo totally not interested in AppUp Sep 14 17:18:52 is this the right irc channel for http://meegozone.com/developer-day-2010-live-streaming Sep 14 17:22:57 sure thing Sep 14 17:23:55 excellent. Sep 14 17:24:38 question: what if you have some weirdo device that's not one or the other category... can you still claim meego compliance if it's a handset, but has no cellphone componnents, just networking? Sep 14 17:25:26 might want to restate that question Sep 14 17:25:52 We're live streaming the MeeGo Developer Day event for anyone who is interested in watching: http://meegozone.com/developer-day-2010-live-streaming/ Sep 14 17:26:15 I'd watch the stream but that would be recursive :) Sep 14 17:26:28 can one still claim meego complaince if one's device is neither Netbook, Handset or other typical platforms that have been defined? Sep 14 17:27:39 Q: Why is pulseaudio present? And how come phonon isn't being used? Sep 14 17:28:22 npm: you can't record with phonon Sep 14 17:28:50 sure you can Sep 14 17:29:01 there's multiple different capture sources that i can select Sep 14 17:29:08 npm: not in Qt :) Sep 14 17:29:32 sometimes you people ask the stupidest questions Sep 14 17:29:44 did it not occur to you, that this stack is assembled from a lot of pre-existing stuff? Sep 14 17:29:52 and that THAT is maybe why pulseaudio is being used? Sep 14 17:30:04 let's be nice, people :) Sep 14 17:30:17 right, pulseaudio is present because something uses pulseaudio Sep 14 17:30:19 from what I'm reading, isn't phonon just the Qt API, but pulseaudio is the mixer for the OS? Sep 14 17:30:23 (you can also capture w/o pulseaudio by using ALSA dmix/dnoop) Sep 14 17:30:57 a lot of existing stuff, where pulseaudio causes nothing but trouble, and is unecessary on a netbook or handheld. ALSA can do it all Sep 14 17:31:01 ) Sep 14 17:31:25 submit a bug to remote pulseaudio :) Sep 14 17:31:31 pulseaudio is present because gnome is dependent on it Sep 14 17:31:33 there must be a lot of Android/iPhone developers here Sep 14 17:31:38 however, kde isn't, for example Sep 14 17:31:41 s/remote/remove/ Sep 14 17:31:42 berndhs meant: submit a bug to remove pulseaudio :) Sep 14 17:32:08 hurr durr, pulseaudio :d Sep 14 17:33:22 speaking about pulseaudio, has anyone else tried to record sound with Qt ? Sep 14 17:34:05 if you remove pulseaudio, all gnome apps will pause with an error gnome-screenshot -i> socket(): Address family not supported by protocol Sep 14 17:34:19 wth is wrong with pulseaudio? it allowed my team (LinuxMCE) to seamlessly integrate bluetooth devices into our smarthome solution. Sep 14 17:34:29 i have, it works fine. i installed google talk plugin on my son's netbook Sep 14 17:34:48 i can now talk to him at school :-) Sep 14 17:35:14 google talk plugin uses Qt ? Sep 14 17:35:27 no. it uses gnome Sep 14 17:35:38 ok , i thought it was about my question Sep 14 17:37:19 "It's basically fedora 13 with a totally incompatible set of rpms and namig convention that doesn't allow you to use rpmfusion" Sep 14 17:38:04 * npm installed music related packages from http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/ on son's netbook Sep 14 17:43:11 TSCHAKeee2: forgot the bluetooth angle to pulseaudio although again, it's nothing that couldn't be handled entirely within ALSA using, e.g. bluez-alsa.i686 installed from fedora 13 repo Sep 14 17:43:37 I prefer OSS4 Sep 14 17:43:39 pulseaudio is basically a good way to waste batteries Sep 14 17:43:50 npm: hehheheh Sep 14 17:43:57 yeah um Sep 14 17:44:00 okay Sep 14 17:44:08 hello everybody Sep 14 17:44:19 ah that's all boring, code on the bare device, forget alsa, dont need drivers Sep 14 17:44:22 npm: i would have to write a long of plumbing to do it with ALSA alone. Sep 14 17:44:33 yep. and you do it once and you're done. Sep 14 17:44:44 sigh Sep 14 17:45:04 I sometimes wonder why i've stuck around in the free software community for 20+ years Sep 14 17:45:05 and then package it all up as /usr/share/alsa/cards/ and make it available for all Sep 14 17:45:33 comments like that make me want to bash my head into cinder blocks for hours Sep 14 17:45:39 it's a lot more productive Sep 14 17:45:41 the thing is the plumbing you have to write doesn't cancel out the batteries being wasted at runtime to allow that flexibility Sep 14 17:45:43 you guys never learn Sep 14 17:45:46 the main problem is amount of different audio system solutions Sep 14 17:45:47 ever Sep 14 17:45:52 it's like do you want a compiler or an interpreter? Sep 14 17:46:04 we would need one de facto system superior to other solutions Sep 14 17:46:06 I really wonder Sep 14 17:46:09 how many of you Sep 14 17:46:11 seriously Sep 14 17:46:15 yes, it's called jack Sep 14 17:46:23 how many of you have had to program large systems to put bread on the table? Sep 14 17:46:24 but it's not oriented to netbooks or handhelds Sep 14 17:46:40 * TSCHAKeee2 just walks away before he gets pissed off. Sep 14 17:47:26 what do you think on start programming using meeGo as plattform? Sep 14 17:47:30 Linux has several audio layers, each mutually incompatible, due to differing goals Sep 14 17:47:46 not to mention the ALSA driver people seem flat intent on refusing to standardize on even the simplest things Sep 14 17:47:50 like Sep 14 17:47:55 MIXER PORT NAMES Sep 14 17:48:22 standardize mixer ports on this: http://mudita24.googlecode.com Sep 14 17:48:22 I mean, I've just a couple hours a day to learn and I doubt between Android or meego Sep 14 17:48:27 well, actually every modern audio layer provides general means for audio playback, at least Sep 14 17:48:34 this is called oss emulation Sep 14 17:48:36 forcing guys using the system to write the most idiotic plumbing imaginable to accomodate for many different sound cards, because hey, I never know if someone's going to use an MCP71 Sep 14 17:48:46 or a CMI8738 Sep 14 17:48:46 julian_lp: as your first platform to learn programming ? Sep 14 17:48:57 and practically every software supports using it at least as a fallback Sep 14 17:49:05 and you guys just throwing answers out there Sep 14 17:49:17 berndhs: actually I'm delphi and php programmer Sep 14 17:49:18 don't understand the subtle realities which prohibit something like that Sep 14 17:49:21 so please Sep 14 17:49:24 just shut up Sep 14 17:49:28 and go learn something Sep 14 17:49:37 kids, Sep 14 17:49:40 ... Sep 14 17:49:44 TSCHAKeee2: you don't need toknow that. you need alsa properrly configured w/ /usr/share/alsa populated w/ info on your card Sep 14 17:50:01 and bindings to the standard names like default, front, etc Sep 14 17:50:03 I want to be able to program for mobile devices as well... Sep 14 17:50:18 TSCHAKeee2: let's be nice, please http://wiki.meego.com/IRC_guidelines Sep 14 17:50:19 julian_lp: better than using android, at least meego is a comlete linux system Sep 14 17:50:29 see i was just getting ahead of the slides Sep 14 17:50:43 development on Android is done using Java Sep 14 17:50:53 that's all I need to know about it Sep 14 17:50:54 npm: ever had to build a consumer audio device on top of ALSA? .. that has analogue, SPDIF, and HDMI outputs? Sep 14 17:50:58 And what do you think will be the availavility of devices compared to android ones Sep 14 17:51:06 have you ever used a directv dvr? Sep 14 17:51:28 or a verifone credit card verification box? Sep 14 17:51:32 java is a terrible choice for embedded systems Sep 14 17:51:53 I live in Argentina, where we dont have yet any android device functioning yet Sep 14 17:51:56 likes Vala a LOT Sep 14 17:52:04 npm: our situation is worse, because people take the software and put it on god knows everything... I just had to commit a ton of plumbing to detect multiple IEC958 ports, and turn them on and off, because every damned card that has HDMI out therei s different. Sep 14 17:52:39 meego runs on ordinary computers, just need the right CPU type Sep 14 17:52:41 and my vala package is almost ported to meego : http://spekle.googlecode.com Sep 14 17:53:17 the key thing here is a marketing one rather than a tech one I guess. Sep 14 17:53:42 TSCHAKeee2: i agree there needs to be something on top of alsa, but it might not need be pulseaudio. Sep 14 17:53:43 will Nokia / Intel be successfull in this move? Sep 14 17:53:54 julian_lp: i thought you wanted to learn about programming these devices Sep 14 17:54:10 it needs to be something... but everybody seems hell bent on developing their own shaped wheel Sep 14 17:54:24 that's opensource for ya Sep 14 17:54:30 berndhs: Yes that's what I want, I just want to take the right plattform Sep 14 17:54:53 not to waste my time, as I've done many times selecting the wrong tool Sep 14 17:54:55 jejej Sep 14 17:55:02 julian: you have access to nokia n900 in argentina?? Sep 14 17:55:10 julian_lp: no guarantees, and if you actually learn something, your time is not wasted Sep 14 17:55:27 yes, I can have access to one of those phones Sep 14 17:55:36 julian_lp: C++/Qt is very useful to learn anyway Sep 14 17:56:16 tired of C++, i'd rather do Vala. Sep 14 17:56:20 kray, I suppose it is, even though I get often confused with the C / C ++ pointers Sep 14 17:56:21 julian_lp: yes, you can write good quality applications really fast with C++/Qt Sep 14 17:56:51 i think vala ought to be the app programming language of choice for meego, not C/C++ Sep 14 17:57:09 I've never heard about vala Sep 14 17:57:19 (since it's basically (C++)++ Sep 14 17:57:35 writing new programming languages is much more fun than using them :) Sep 14 17:57:39 http://live.gnome.org/Vala Sep 14 17:57:39 I started a couple of years ago Eiffel Sep 14 17:57:47 really pretty nice lang Sep 14 17:57:52 now seems to be dead Sep 14 17:58:04 or almost Sep 14 17:58:12 Vala is C# for gnome, minus the virtual machine. preprocessed C. Sep 14 17:59:00 anything that uses gobject introspection, any lib that's been made avaialble that way, aka most of linux/gnome, is available to Vala Sep 14 17:59:31 so it's like java except that gnome libs are your "java library" and it's all in C Sep 14 17:59:44 Tiny, fast. excellent. Sep 14 17:59:50 please dont send me to read web sites cause I've read tons already Sep 14 17:59:58 I just want to ask some quest Sep 14 18:00:07 Tiny? Gnome? Sep 14 18:00:14 Qt is the rival of GTK Sep 14 18:00:15 ?¡ Sep 14 18:00:17 vala Sep 14 18:00:28 you can have vala for qt apps Sep 14 18:00:38 Is Qt in any way tied to KDE ? Sep 14 18:00:43 Qt is better than GTK, Qt is on more platforms Sep 14 18:00:46 julian_lp: no Sep 14 18:00:47 I'm sligthly confussed Sep 14 18:00:47 qt is not a rival, they both live on x11 Sep 14 18:00:48 KDE uses Qt Sep 14 18:01:04 I don't like Gnome Sep 14 18:01:36 does MeeGo even come with Gnome? Sep 14 18:01:49 of course not Sep 14 18:01:50 so Gnome uses GTK right? Sep 14 18:02:07 phew :) Sep 14 18:02:09 julian_lp: yeah Sep 14 18:02:13 well rhythmbox is available on meego, and that'sa gnome app? Sep 14 18:02:23 so the gnome libs are all there\ Sep 14 18:02:26 ok kray now I start to understand Sep 14 18:02:38 whether the gnome desktop is there, no Sep 14 18:03:49 anyway, I guess for Free software "purists" the right choice would have been GTK for meeGo Sep 14 18:04:06 but that's what's there as well. Sep 14 18:04:21 it seems there are gnome config tools there and available on yum Sep 14 18:04:30 GTK is awful Sep 14 18:04:35 whatever Sep 14 18:04:38 heck no julian_lp, for purests, Meego would run ontop of emacs Sep 14 18:04:40 it just is Sep 14 18:04:47 after this many years Sep 14 18:04:49 :-) Sep 14 18:04:59 purists even :P Sep 14 18:05:07 (i use kde desktop, and lots of gnome apps too) Sep 14 18:06:01 npm, gnome apps use gtk and dont use any Qt in that scenario? Sep 14 18:06:06 all in all, i like meego a lot, but i just wish it was fedora 13 so i could plug yum.repos into fedora updates and rpmfusion Sep 14 18:07:03 i would imagine. "ls /usr/bin/system-config-*" for example Sep 14 18:07:12 ^^j julian_lp Sep 14 18:07:24 does meeGo run in a standard desktop PC ? Sep 14 18:07:41 for instance in a Intel dual Core Sep 14 18:08:08 it is distributed as i386 and 64 bit Sep 14 18:08:11 npm: yes Sep 14 18:18:45 julian_lp: it runs fine, and the desktop works if you have integrated intel gfx Sep 14 18:18:59 npm: meego is 32bit only Sep 14 18:25:37 auke: what's intel gfx can you ellaborate a little more? Sep 14 18:28:20 hi - I'm trying to build my local obs repo, and I've run into problems with "pcre" build, its test phase requires a big stack. At first I thought it was a matter of jamming a "ulimit -s" param to the build, but now I think that it is qemu-arm that defaults to too small of a stack Sep 14 18:29:11 has anyone working on the meego obs run into this? how did you work around it? I was trying to point arm binaries to a qemu-arm-bigstack script to increase the stack size but it didn't work Sep 14 18:29:58 julian_lp: e.g. 965, or G33/G45 graphics Sep 14 18:45:53 hello all Sep 14 18:46:07 hi Sep 14 18:46:43 hey i have neopwn running in the iphone, but hildon is making me gona crazy.. Sep 14 18:46:59 anyone can help me a bit please? Sep 14 18:47:17 nope Sep 14 18:47:22 we can only help you with meego related things Sep 14 18:47:51 oh sorry, im in meego ^^' Sep 14 18:48:41 sure, then, i was downloaded the qemu image of meego, that have some xserver? Sep 14 18:49:10 CosmoHill, ? Sep 14 18:49:23 what are you trying to do? Sep 14 18:50:07 put meego in the iphone ;) Sep 14 18:50:35 good luck! tell us how you did it Sep 14 18:50:43 i have freerunner, neopwn, adn mer runing in the 3G Sep 14 18:51:21 but hildon-desktop dont show the whole desktop, that dont show the buttons.. Sep 14 18:51:39 the xserver run but hildon dont show the buttons Sep 14 18:51:59 maybe i must to ask in #mer Sep 14 18:52:01 * CosmoHill is confused Sep 14 18:52:41 sorry for my english :/ Sep 14 18:52:58 don't worry, I'm confused most of the time Sep 14 18:53:34 the think is that, if i can extract the meego from image i can rebuild the image to run in the iphone Sep 14 18:53:50 why do that when you have access to the source code Sep 14 18:54:29 becose im a freelace, not a developer CosmoHill Sep 14 18:54:40 freelance* Sep 14 19:01:46 hey Sep 14 19:02:02 is it possible to install MeeGo on the rootfs of an N900? Sep 14 19:04:22 hi, can i write apps in Nokia Qt SDK for MeeGo Handset? Sep 14 19:04:40 Mat_Matan: alterego said he managed to do so Sep 14 19:05:48 ok, thx Sep 14 20:03:48 I hate it when I open up wikipedia and then can't remember what I was gonna search for Sep 14 20:19:28 raises hand Sep 14 20:20:28 * CosmoHill shakes npm's hand Sep 14 20:21:00 see http://nielsmayer.com/winterp/ Sep 14 20:23:44 ^^^ which compiles on meego, using OpenMotif from PlanetCCRMA Sep 14 20:26:02 Question: When will Qt itself have some audio support akin to Phonon, but separate from KDE, for use in Meego? Sep 14 20:26:44 (a shirtworthy question IMHO :-) ) Sep 14 20:28:10 * CosmoHill rattles swear jar Sep 14 20:29:12 <_wolf_> npm, IIUC in Meego you will have Qt Mobility Multimedia API, which has something simpler to use than Phonon Sep 14 20:29:41 <_wolf_> But Phonon itself might also be available Sep 14 20:29:49 that would be nice Sep 14 20:30:18 <_wolf_> thiago can give you the definite answer ;) Sep 14 20:30:19 esp. with ability to plugin whatever you want, or not plugin pulseaudio, just use alsa; or for some, use Jackd Sep 14 20:30:57 http://qtractor.sourceforge.net is what sold me on qt :-) Sep 14 20:31:08 <_wolf_> I think only PA is be available Sep 14 20:31:43 well i already installed jack on my son's netbook from planetccrma... Sep 14 20:31:45 <_wolf_> fiddling with alsa directly from the application layer is frowned upon Sep 14 20:44:01 question: why X11 and not QT_GRAPHICSSYSTEM=raster ? Sep 14 20:44:12 at least for some devices Sep 14 20:48:59 sounds like Motif's UIL all over again... Sep 14 21:14:19 I am beginning to sob out loud at the meego.spec thread Sep 14 21:14:53 Jaffa: please offer me a shoulder to cry on ... Sep 14 21:16:02 I'd hug you but it's only software Sep 14 21:17:09 lbt the first 3 posts make .wgt sound like .activex ;) Sep 14 21:18:34 lcuk: I'm sure some of these guys are windows devs Sep 14 21:18:47 * lcuk giggles Sep 14 21:19:52 the whole "ship a single package with python in it for a desktop widget" is f**king insane Sep 14 21:20:02 (it's OK to nearly swear, Dawn's gone) Sep 14 21:20:45 bloat a 3kb package to 6Mb+ ... "so the manufacturer knows what they're getting" Sep 14 21:23:10 lbt theres bigger problems Sep 14 21:23:17 especially with wgt Sep 14 21:23:34 http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/14/nokia-hires-peter-skillman-former-palm-design-vp-as-meego-user/ Sep 14 21:23:38 since user cannot actively install things into root space Sep 14 21:23:53 and at some point in the future multiple users will come back Sep 14 21:24:09 (the mer discussion about /home/user being bad is recalled here) Sep 14 21:24:16 heh Sep 14 21:24:40 the package manager would have to manage multiple versions of wgt packages Sep 14 21:24:43 for each user Sep 14 21:24:59 but I havent finished the thread yet Sep 14 21:25:08 and movie is almost here Sep 14 21:25:14 wgt? Sep 14 21:25:18 wrt? Sep 14 21:25:42 wgt == widget packages Sep 14 21:25:51 not looked at that tech yet Sep 14 21:26:15 app manager must be privileged Sep 14 21:35:00 I asked this earlier but got dragged into a meeting and never got to see if there was a reply Sep 14 21:35:17 Has there been any progress made on a generic x86 build on the community server ? Sep 14 21:45:35 good night Sep 14 21:48:45 slaine: i think ali124 is the best person to ask about his Sep 14 21:49:20 yeah, probably Sep 14 21:49:46 wondered if lbt, Stskeeps or vgrade might know Sep 14 21:51:28 apparently there's a Twitter announcement coming up Real Soon about something important Sep 14 21:53:10 @world : Twitter Rulez ? Sep 14 21:53:26 so many twits make a ... Sep 14 21:53:37 nuthouse Sep 14 21:53:37 twoddle Sep 14 21:53:54 have you ever considered that twitter may be a great source of entropy? Sep 14 21:53:56 maybe its about twitter downtime, that would be shocking Sep 14 21:54:36 duno, can't read that word Sep 14 21:54:57 lbt: yes, and experiment in how low you can drive S/N ratio Sep 14 21:55:07 slaine, not sure about lbt, but Stskeeps has something built on the maemo obs, core I think. vjl has been chatting today about running something on nonSSSE Sep 14 21:55:46 vlj, sorry Sep 14 21:56:13 vgrade, thanks Sep 14 21:56:30 every time I think I'm free to experiment on it, I get dragged into something else for a week Sep 14 21:56:38 real pita at this point Sep 14 21:58:13 vlj, was showing off a screenie of x up on a really old machine Sep 14 22:34:08 Anyone know if the IDF sessions are available to view ? Sep 14 22:34:33 I believe the Amino guys gave a talk on the MeeGo Connected TV project Sep 14 22:36:14 vgrade: Do you know anything about the graphics stack on the Intel Atom CE4100 ? Sep 14 22:52:18 slaine, it that the new intel platform announced today something bay, beach Sep 14 22:52:42 nah, that's the new version Sep 14 22:53:03 CE4100 was announced last sept and is only now really appearing in products Sep 14 22:54:07 Boxee dropped the Tegra2 for example and moved to the CE4100, the new GoogleTV reference platform is based on it Sep 14 22:54:22 seems to support h.264 decoding at 1080p Sep 14 22:54:36 hi Sep 14 22:54:46 so it can't be a regular i9XX chipset for the graphics Sep 14 22:54:53 how do i get an account on build.meego.com ? Sep 14 22:55:04 it's probably more powervr stuff licensed from Imagine Sep 14 22:55:18 zeenix: contact X-Fade or lbt Sep 14 22:55:43 oh waith, build.meego.com is the official one Sep 14 22:55:52 I would have thought it would use something similar to the sandybridge gpu Sep 14 22:55:54 no public accounts on that as of yet Sep 14 22:57:21 X-Fade: Sep 14 22:57:41 slaine: i'm not public :) Sep 14 22:57:59 slaine: i work at N and maintainer/developer of gupnp and rygel :) Sep 14 22:58:14 shouldn't that be public ;) Sep 14 22:59:07 zeenix, tekojo might be more appropriate for an official account, iirc. Sep 14 22:59:29 slaine: whats tekojo? Sep 14 22:59:37 who, not what Sep 14 22:59:47 doesn't look like he's around atm Sep 14 22:59:56 k, no hurries Sep 14 23:00:06 slaine: thanks, i'll poke him tomorrow Sep 14 23:00:10 np Sep 14 23:00:18 slaine: there's a nokia converence thing on today and tomorrow Sep 14 23:00:22 he might be there Sep 14 23:00:28 * slaine wonders why he's still up Sep 14 23:00:32 CosmoHill: very true Sep 14 23:00:49 I have until monday to sort out my sleeping patten Sep 14 23:02:16 fyi for anyone who cares (which no one will), from next week I probably won't be on here on mondays Sep 14 23:02:29 well maybe at night Sep 14 23:02:47 CosmoHill: whats the time there? Sep 14 23:02:56 zeenix: mmm Sep 14 23:02:56 UTC+1 Sep 14 23:03:29 zeenix: do you know kad? Sep 14 23:03:41 lbt: not by nick at aleast Sep 14 23:03:46 Sascha/Alexander Sep 14 23:03:59 yes, the big russian guy? Sep 14 23:04:03 yup... Sep 14 23:04:13 he's your quickest way Sep 14 23:04:14 yes, i just saw him in the pub an hour ago :) Sep 14 23:04:24 hope you bought him a drink Sep 14 23:04:30 slaine, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerVR/List_of_Products sgx535, same as an intel GMA500 Sep 14 23:04:59 lbt: if only i knew that i need him :) Sep 14 23:04:59 zeenix: so I do the nokia internal OBS ... "hi" Sep 14 23:05:38 good excuse for another drink tomorrow :) Sep 14 23:05:52 perhaps :) Sep 14 23:06:14 it'll be funny cause I bumped into him in the pub i went to the previous night as well :) Sep 14 23:06:32 he seems to be in all pubs in hel Sep 14 23:06:37 vgrade, well spotted Sep 14 23:06:39 hehe... Sep 14 23:06:50 zeenix: or he's stalking you Sep 14 23:07:45 slaine, driver hell Sep 14 23:07:52 * slaine sobs Sep 14 23:08:17 you're the second person to sob today Sep 14 23:08:20 grade, that new Amino OTT box is based on that CPU, so the drivers must work Sep 14 23:08:34 s/grade/vgrade/ Sep 14 23:08:35 slaine meant: vgrade, that new Amino OTT box is based on that CPU, so the drivers must work Sep 14 23:09:25 yes, we have/had working drivers on Joggler GMA500 , IEGD then EMGD Sep 14 23:09:38 nod Sep 14 23:09:53 do you still need the older xserver for them to work on meego ? Sep 14 23:10:00 problem is when the dri or kernel or Xorg changes we need new binary blobs released Sep 14 23:10:11 intel only release a driver a year Sep 14 23:10:12 and they lag, nod Sep 14 23:11:57 I would think that intel would be in a position to dictate OSS drivers if they have the potential of putting PVR silicon underneath a shed load of TV'v Sep 14 23:12:01 TV's Sep 14 23:18:34 right, time to wrap up Sep 14 23:18:39 catch you all tomorrow Sep 14 23:23:45 hey thiago_london Sep 14 23:59:31 what power soldering iron is recommende for PCD? Sep 14 23:59:33 PCB* Sep 15 00:00:56 CosmoHill, depends on purpose Sep 15 00:01:28 higher power irons retain heat more, but a general purpose single temp is useful for occasional crafting Sep 15 00:01:47 more important than power is the tip you use Sep 15 00:02:33 ie never try using a needle point to desolder a clump Sep 15 00:02:48 and dont use a flat tip for fine work ;) Sep 15 00:04:31 I have a laptop motherboard I'm having trouble with Sep 15 00:06:04 theres a new range of soldering hammers Sep 15 00:06:49 that used for ICs? Sep 15 00:07:43 CosmoHill, when you have a soldering hammer, everything is an IC nail ;) Sep 15 00:07:49 hah Sep 15 00:08:04 * TSCHAKeee2 has a temp controlled soldering/desoldering station Sep 15 00:08:27 I have a 30W one I got when I was a kid for that robot wars robot thingy Sep 15 00:08:55 and one gas iron..which.. i've only used once.. i thought i'd be like MacGyver and have to build something to break me out of a jail at some point, i guess... Sep 15 00:08:58 :P Sep 15 00:09:17 I think I might need a new tip Sep 15 00:10:14 get a decent sucker Sep 15 00:10:22 or a roll of braid Sep 15 00:10:54 * lcuk soldered 2 coins together the other night with my lighter Sep 15 00:11:06 (i, just like now, was bored) Sep 15 00:11:21 I have a solder sucker somewhere too Sep 15 00:11:23 that's a bad place to be Sep 15 00:11:26 trust me Sep 15 00:11:33 you start contemplating weird shit to do Sep 15 00:11:36 the problem I'm having with the PCB is that the solder on it isn't melting Sep 15 00:12:01 TSCHAKeee2, meh Sep 15 00:12:32 one trick that a friend does, he has a solder-desoldering rig with a bladder that sucks up the solder, but he applies just a dab of new solder Sep 15 00:12:38 CosmoHill, photo Sep 15 00:12:40 this has the effect of melting the solder that's already there Sep 15 00:12:45 and you can then suck it up Sep 15 00:13:15 can those who attended online join the raffle? Sep 15 00:13:15 we tried that Sep 15 00:13:28 huh? that always works Sep 15 00:13:31 what worries me is that the new solder melts fine and the old one doesn't flintch Sep 15 00:13:59 what type of PCB? Sep 15 00:14:01 lcuk: hmm, do I get out of bed to take a picture of a motherboard Sep 15 00:14:59 why are you soldering your motherboard whilst in bed? Sep 15 00:15:08 I'm not Sep 15 00:15:33 "and how did he die officer?" Sep 15 00:15:56 I've had the motherboard for a few weeks all cos I can't get the damn pins unsoldered Sep 15 00:15:59 "boss, we found a lukewarm soldering iron under his sheets" Sep 15 00:16:26 it needs a new power connector Sep 15 00:18:21 CosmoHill, so you are removing the power connector? Sep 15 00:18:33 which will have a big glob of solder on its through the hole connectors? Sep 15 00:18:45 * lcuk says through the hole again for no reason Sep 15 00:23:31 * lbt sends another meego.spec response off Sep 15 00:23:54 * lcuk emails lbt some ice cream Sep 15 00:24:01 at least we're getting to some meaty bits now Sep 15 00:24:03 eww Sep 15 00:24:12 meaty icecream Sep 15 00:24:15 one second Sep 15 00:24:16 ewww Sep 15 00:24:24 actually lbt Sep 15 00:24:28 bacon ice cream Sep 15 00:24:32 EWWWWWW Sep 15 00:24:37 why does this sound favmilar Sep 15 00:24:39 it works Sep 15 00:24:40 pistacio Sep 15 00:24:42 h Sep 15 00:24:44 bacon ice cream does work Sep 15 00:24:45 wait. we're already had this convo! Sep 15 00:24:49 we have Sep 15 00:24:56 it worked!!!! Sep 15 00:24:56 DEJA BACON@! Sep 15 00:25:05 the flux capacitor works!!! Sep 15 00:25:55 http://www.davidlebovitz.com/2008/03/candied-bacon-i-1/ <<< Sep 15 00:26:06 :D Sep 15 00:26:13 lcuk: advocate to DawnFoster for the Zeitgeist chap when she comes back Sep 15 00:26:28 but read my email on -dev too Sep 15 00:26:30 indeed lbt Sep 15 00:26:35 oh screw that Sep 15 00:26:39 -dev is email overload Sep 15 00:26:41 see if we can nail them Sep 15 00:26:47 and gmail keeps threads Sep 15 00:26:47 yeah.. but this is important Sep 15 00:26:53 solder pic: http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/DSC_0039.JPG Sep 15 00:26:57 did it have a new topic Sep 15 00:27:04 because that thread was immense Sep 15 00:27:09 i got about 2/3 of the way down Sep 15 00:27:15 "Meego spec - for comment" Sep 15 00:27:18 eeeeeek Sep 15 00:27:20 before my brain melted and movie arrived Sep 15 00:27:41 did you see Lady Gaga's recent dress? Sep 15 00:27:53 the steak one? Sep 15 00:27:53 start at my email and work back... we're getting interesting Sep 15 00:28:02 CosmoHill: TTIWWP Sep 15 00:28:10 huh? Sep 15 00:28:32 * lbt waits for google latency Sep 15 00:28:41 http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jIeoy-85-4AgSJ_blBcXte83bC6Q Sep 15 00:28:43 TTIWWP? Sep 15 00:28:58 lbt, the thread reopened at 1034 mails Sep 15 00:29:03 10:34 Sep 15 00:29:09 ie i have a couple of hours lag Sep 15 00:29:50 bed... I'm already in trouble... o/ Sep 15 00:30:00 bey bye Sep 15 00:30:24 lcuk: did you see the pic? Sep 15 00:31:49 lbt - one point, simplest: allow apps to use dependencies within their own repo Sep 15 00:32:05 so if intelappup things need special things, they come from within intelappup Sep 15 00:32:14 likewise ovi or maemo joebloggs Sep 15 00:39:09 eletric desoldering iron or regular vacuum pump? Sep 15 00:44:37 CosmoHill, regular sucker and a medium nib on a standard iron should get that Sep 15 00:44:44 and the tip TSCHAKeee2 gave earlier works Sep 15 00:44:54 the adding new solder to the old? Sep 15 00:45:01 melt a small amount onto your iron helps to contact and further melt the other Sep 15 00:45:07 yeah Sep 15 00:45:22 I may have already fubarred the motherboard Sep 15 00:45:25 :D Sep 15 00:45:30 but without adding the new power connector I'd never know Sep 15 00:45:57 I'd rather know that Ive effed up someone else's motherboard than me left wondering Sep 15 00:46:18 yeah Sep 15 00:46:42 the reason its not melting is because the heat is going into the legs Sep 15 00:46:53 anyway, gnite \o Sep 15 00:49:01 bye Sep 15 00:54:35 cyas **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Sep 15 02:59:57 2010