**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Sep 29 02:59:57 2010 Sep 29 03:53:26 If I find a typo for instance on this page: http://apidocs.meego.com/mtf/introduction.html which git repository should I clone to fix it and send a patch ? Sep 29 03:54:07 http://meego.gitorious.org/meegotouch/meegotouch-compositor possibly? Sep 29 03:54:35 (i don't really know, tbh, that just seemed like a possibility) Sep 29 03:54:36 compository ? Sep 29 03:55:04 I do not see introduction.html anywhere. Sep 29 03:55:28 nor the search engine. Sep 29 03:55:30 http://meego.gitorious.org/meegotouch/libmeegotouch/blobs/master/doc/src/introduction.dox Sep 29 03:56:11 good enough, ty. Sep 29 04:14:41 hey guys ... does meego supports b43 wireless ? Sep 29 04:23:20 b43? Sep 29 04:28:10 microlith , sorry for delay .. b43 wireless card ..broadcom Sep 29 04:28:41 ahh Sep 29 04:28:48 device support on that level is a kernel matter Sep 29 04:29:00 and the likelihood of that went up recently Sep 29 04:29:19 likelihood ? Sep 29 04:29:35 yes, broadcom released the sources for their wifi chipsets recently, at least their newer ones Sep 29 04:29:52 so that will likely have trickle down effects on other chipsets Sep 29 04:30:10 however, that code won't be integrated until 2.6.37, and meego has settled thus far on 2.6.35 I believe Sep 29 04:30:20 and it is very much a stock kernel Sep 29 04:30:27 aha Sep 29 04:33:05 microlith , can i use meego on my notebook for development purposes ... like Java , C++ , python ? Sep 29 04:33:15 sure Sep 29 04:33:22 check the hardware requirements first though Sep 29 07:45:54 OOo is dead now Sep 29 07:46:28 well it's not but people are jumping out of the boat Sep 29 07:50:02 CosmoHill, I'm kinda relieved Sep 29 07:50:57 morning :) Sep 29 07:51:51 * CosmoHill offers johnx and niala a cup of tea / coffee Sep 29 07:53:30 CosmoHill, no thanks. time for bed soon Sep 29 07:53:55 hilariously, my company just (mostly) finished switching to openoffice late last year Sep 29 07:54:47 lol Sep 29 07:55:06 I suppose you'll switch to the replacement when it's released Sep 29 07:55:25 that code base seems kind of terrifying Sep 29 07:55:43 I'm really not sure if it will work as a community project Sep 29 07:56:14 heya johnx Sep 29 07:56:20 hey RST38h Sep 29 07:57:56 I think we have open office on the macs at uni but we also have MS 2010 and Win7 Sep 29 08:00:50 I can't help but think that abiword or koffice would be further along if Sun hadn't open sourced StarOffice Sep 29 08:02:33 Doubt it =( Sep 29 08:05:29 RST38h, or that red hat or canonical would have taken on an office suite project of their own resulting in a slightly less skeery code base Sep 29 08:11:49 what does meego use for it's office suite? Sep 29 08:31:40 salut dazo Sep 29 08:32:18 CosmoHill: Ciao Sep 29 08:32:21 CosmoHill: I'm not sure (I don't know anythingabout meego yet) but I know koffice has been working with nokia on mobile office stuff Sep 29 08:35:32 DawnFoster: ping... about setting up a team mailing list Sep 29 08:50:51 hi is meego ' media player Banshee having the support of DLNA client Sep 29 08:56:27 m looking for a media player with DLNA client support. , Does banshee support this requirement Sep 29 09:42:37 Hi all, Could someone tell me where to get kernel source for meego Sep 29 09:42:37 ? Sep 29 09:43:11 repo.meego.com , find the kernel rpm, or on meego.gitorious.org Sep 29 09:45:21 Thanks tackat. Sep 29 09:46:14 Thanks moo Sep 29 10:00:23 örrörörö Sep 29 10:04:25 Any Qt experts around? What is the right way to dump a QString in a Linux environment? qDebug() << str.toUtf8() works, but only in a simple app. Once I instantiate QApplication, the output is garbled. Sep 29 10:06:37 try qDebug() << str Sep 29 10:06:41 qPrintable(string) should do basically same thing. Sep 29 10:08:23 tomma: does not produce correct output. Sep 29 10:08:34 Very much to my suprise, I should add. Sep 29 10:09:44 #include Sep 29 10:09:44 #include Sep 29 10:09:44 int main(int argc, char **argv) Sep 29 10:09:44 { Sep 29 10:09:45 // QApplication app(argc, argv); Sep 29 10:09:45 QString summary(QString::fromUtf8("a-umlaut follows: ä")); Sep 29 10:09:46 qDebug() << summary.toUtf8().size(); Sep 29 10:09:46 qDebug() << summary; // .toUtf8(); Sep 29 10:09:47 return 0; Sep 29 10:09:47 } Sep 29 10:09:59 $ g++ /home/pohly/src/syncevolution/src/backends/kcalextended/test-qstring.cpp `pkg-config QtCore QtGui --cflags --libs` -o test && ./test Sep 29 10:09:59 20 Sep 29 10:09:59 "a-umlaut follows: �" Sep 29 10:10:21 console supports utf8 ? Sep 29 10:10:44 Yes. It works without QApplication and with qDebug() << summary.toUtf8() Sep 29 10:12:01 dont use fromUtf8 Sep 29 10:12:37 pohly, is your editor using utf8 ? Sep 29 10:12:46 are you sure this is an regular ä? not an composed character. I've seen OSX do a+" Sep 29 10:15:58 sx0n: it should use UTF-8. "cat" shows the source as expected in the same console. Sep 29 10:16:33 tomma: if I don't use fromUtf8(), then QString treats "const char *" as latin-1. Sep 29 10:18:04 pohly, i am running out of ideas, maybe they could help on qt channel. Sep 29 10:18:39 Yeah, this is getting off-topic for MeeGo. That's where I saw the issue first, but I can also reproduce it elsewhere. Sep 29 10:19:36 i personally would try with files and different editor too. Sep 29 10:21:46 pohly, http://pastebin.com/aMs9n8rh Sep 29 10:21:57 pohly: please use pastebin for large amounts of text Sep 29 10:23:12 CosmoHill: sorry, will do. Sep 29 10:24:48 tomma: so what is the "right" way of doing it? It can't be that this depends on whether a QApplication has been instantiated or not. Some library code may be completely unaware of that. Sep 29 10:25:26 pohly, maybe the qapplication reads your locale settings and fsck the output :) Sep 29 10:25:32 QApplication handles locales etc Sep 29 10:27:07 sx0n: I'm sure it does, but that still leaves the problem of writing code which works correctly without knowing whether it runs inside a QApplication. Sep 29 10:28:41 pohly, do you have use case for that? Sep 29 10:30:32 sx0n: yes, QtCore-based library code. Sep 29 10:31:44 that does obey locale settings? Sep 29 10:32:07 qbytearray does not care about locale Sep 29 10:32:11 sx0n: primarily I want qDebug() to work correctly. Sep 29 10:53:48 tomma, sx0n: the answer on #qt was that the code without QApplication (or QCoreApplication) is incorrect. Using Qt without instantiating those first has undefined behavior. Sep 29 11:00:09 DawnFoster: you around? Sep 29 11:00:22 it's fairly early over there, i'd try again in 4-5 hours Sep 29 11:14:06 7n Sep 29 11:14:14 oops Sep 29 11:15:26 * CosmoHill growls at VMware Workstaion Sep 29 11:33:12 Stskeeps: Good grief, yesterday's image feels even slower than before. Including responsiveness and lag of rotating the home screen. Known/accepted/expected? Sep 29 11:36:48 Jaffa: first boot is always a bit slow the first few minutes Sep 29 11:37:14 Stskeeps: OK. I'll bear with it. Sep 29 11:37:19 Just made a phone call though, that was cool Sep 29 11:37:20 what class microsd? Sep 29 11:37:44 Stskeeps: 4 or 6 *I think*. Anyway to tell from dmesg? Sep 29 11:37:48 k Sep 29 11:37:49 not afai Sep 29 11:37:50 k Sep 29 11:38:09 * Jaffa wonders why MTF lets the account setup page, in portrait mode, scroll & bounce. It feels... odd. Sep 29 11:38:46 Accelerometers now feel as unreliable as they do on Maemo Sep 29 11:39:01 * slaine notes he's running out of time to get his skunkworx project ready for conference2010 Sep 29 11:52:20 hello all Sep 29 11:52:28 I am a C, C++ developper Sep 29 11:52:35 and have xp in qt dev Sep 29 11:52:44 with 7 years of xp Sep 29 11:53:08 Does meego (or intel or nokia) sponsorize dev to code for meego ptf ? Sep 29 11:53:51 well, they hire people. Sep 29 11:53:52 :P Sep 29 11:54:25 Stskeeps: for teleworking ? :) Sep 29 11:54:44 well, not directly, but through subcontractors Sep 29 11:54:47 * Stskeeps teleworks, personally Sep 29 11:54:54 Stskeeps: t'es francais ? Sep 29 11:54:55 :) Sep 29 11:54:58 no, thank god Sep 29 11:55:11 hehehe Sep 29 11:55:17 :) Sep 29 11:55:22 I have chrome running on meego in twm :) Sep 29 11:55:37 meego has twm? Sep 29 11:55:45 (as in window manager?) Sep 29 11:55:45 Stskeeps: and who are these subcontractors ? :) Sep 29 11:55:53 mon67: i'd recommend you to look for meego jobs Sep 29 11:55:54 i think that's what it's called. in init3 if you run "startx" Sep 29 11:55:55 plenty out there Sep 29 11:56:10 wow :) Sep 29 11:56:31 I thought twm died sometime in the late 1990's... Sep 29 11:57:10 twm is ok for minimal things. they only thing that sucks is that you have to click to make a window appear... Sep 29 11:57:51 kristian_m: http://black-flag.co.uk/files/meego-twm.png Sep 29 11:58:33 amazing! Sep 29 11:59:31 Stskeeps: meego jobs , url ? Sep 29 11:59:57 mon67: forums.meego.com has some posted once in a while Sep 29 12:00:02 and linkedin.com meego group Sep 29 12:00:12 thanks Sep 29 12:16:33 I wonder if chrome will work under a non SSSE3 computer Sep 29 12:26:42 connman, zypper and yum - how they differ, in principle? why is not only one project manager.. Sep 29 12:27:38 project manager = package manager* Sep 29 12:27:52 yum will not be available from Meego 1.1 and later Sep 29 12:27:55 connman is not package manager -> Connection Manager Sep 29 12:28:24 * kedz uses connman in ubuntu for wifi... Sep 29 12:29:02 oh, it's more clear :) thanks Sep 29 12:30:25 kedz, but we can use connman like package manager to install/remove/update.. or not?) Sep 29 12:32:01 spurvewt, zypper info connman : Sep 29 12:32:02 Description: Sep 29 12:32:02 Connection Manager provides a daemon for managing Internet connections Sep 29 12:32:02 within embedded devices running the Linux operating system. Sep 29 12:35:36 kedz, more time sorry, i mean PackageKit.. but don't know i why wrote connman.. :/ Sep 29 12:50:22 what;s the cheapest phone capable of running meego? Sep 29 12:50:50 n900? Sep 29 12:50:50 :P Sep 29 12:51:37 damn, that costs money Sep 29 12:51:54 everything costs money in the end Sep 29 12:51:55 :P Sep 29 12:52:28 lbt: you still around? Sep 29 12:52:44 morn DawnFoster Sep 29 12:52:46 * CosmoHill is a scavenger Sep 29 12:52:56 morning Stskeeps Sep 29 12:53:24 afternoon DawnFoster Sep 29 12:55:24 sjokkis: *poke* Sep 29 12:56:05 it boots! Sep 29 12:56:21 it doesn't! Sep 29 12:56:49 does n8 run meego? :) Sep 29 12:56:55 no, symbian Sep 29 12:57:23 Devil OS - Powered by the souls of the dammed. Sep 29 12:57:24 Stskeeps: in answer to your question yesterday, I'm now about 90% sure that we're canceling the TSG this week. Sep 29 12:57:32 working on confirming it now. Sep 29 12:57:45 DawnFoster: :nod: Sep 29 12:57:49 n8 is actually ok but i was thinking would it be possible to flash. Sep 29 12:58:08 DawnFoster: means i can either 1) go out for a movie or 2) spend my evening debugging fennec, yay : Sep 29 12:58:09 but i forget my suspicious plans. Sep 29 12:58:11 :) Sep 29 12:58:30 Stskeeps: interesting combo of choices :) Sep 29 13:00:40 morning DawnFoster Sep 29 13:00:48 morning slaine Sep 29 13:01:26 oh bugger me, there's no /etc/inittab Sep 29 13:08:58 DawnFoster: hi... I sent an email :) Sep 29 13:14:08 what's the name of the console used by meego? Sep 29 13:28:25 you know if you use chromium-brower and gnome-terminal from twm in meego you have a decent LFS build system Sep 29 13:31:25 So, where did the spec discussion ever end up? Sep 29 13:32:42 GAN900: "a trainwreck" is a fairly good description Sep 29 13:33:32 w00t_, yeah, but does that mean they're just going to go ahead steaming on with their spec proposal despite the discussion? Sep 29 13:33:39 GAN900: probably Sep 29 13:33:59 at least, I didn't see any willingness to consider alternative positions Sep 29 13:35:50 i still think both sides had their challenges Sep 29 13:36:13 there was no proper solutions how to in fact deal with testing for compliance with 3rd party deps Sep 29 13:37:14 and calling that massive thread being ignored is probably not fair either Sep 29 13:37:25 lbt: hmmm, haven't gotten through all my email, but not seeing one from you - I might find it later Sep 29 13:37:49 lbt: FYI - process for requesting a new list: http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines#Requesting_a_New_Mailing_List Sep 29 13:38:13 meego-infrastructure-tools team ... we would like to share meego-distribution-tools@lists.meego.com Sep 29 13:38:28 so I sent you a mail, cc the list and all my team members Sep 29 13:38:48 I hadn't seen that ml when I first pinged you Sep 29 13:38:50 ah, ok Sep 29 13:39:02 Stskeeps, you have to enter into a discussion willing to shifting your position (at least on somw points). Sep 29 13:39:03 we'll have to check with Yi & Anas Sep 29 13:39:33 That discussion came pre-entrenched (we have lots of experience with this from Maemo). Sep 29 13:39:44 Stskeeps: GAN900: lets be realistic, this isn't about quality control, it's about market control Sep 29 13:39:47 GAN900: and a lot of non-understanding of the issue Sep 29 13:40:05 So wasn't much of a discussion, and wasn't worth having if it's a pre-determined thing. Sep 29 13:40:13 berndhs: there's no benefit to not having 3rd party deps for commercial deployers, so let's keep this out of it.. Sep 29 13:40:18 Stskeeps: I don't think nobody said it was ignored - just that neither side wants to budge so the compromise potential is really-really small Sep 29 13:40:36 berndhs, I don't believe these things need to be dictated by the core spec. Sep 29 13:40:38 Stskeeps: why keep it out of it if that is the main point Sep 29 13:40:39 achipa: from a completely objective pov, there was no good solutions to solving the 3rd party dep problem Sep 29 13:41:10 I don't think a good justification was put forward for why the spec needed to mandate that. Sep 29 13:41:18 it is about what who says what goes on the devices, the manufacturer/service provider, or the rest of the world Sep 29 13:41:20 Myrtti: sup Sep 29 13:41:35 the spec is just a tool to do that Sep 29 13:41:50 Stskeeps: there is actually no problem, unless 'choice' comes up under 'problems', which is another matter in itself Sep 29 13:41:53 Throughout the whole discussion there was a lot of ignoring of important points. Sep 29 13:42:15 berndhs, and we seem to be headed for Android style dictating. Sep 29 13:42:26 berndhs: not once has that been contested Sep 29 13:42:38 GAN900: yes that seems to be where it is headed Sep 29 13:43:02 achipa: I would love to contest it as an independent developer and as a user :) Sep 29 13:43:13 .. it's a sticker saying that 'this will install on a meego compliant device' not 'without this sticker you can never install on a meego compliant device' Sep 29 13:43:26 why do people think there's corporate conspiracies behind everything? Sep 29 13:43:27 berndhs: the question was where does ONE vendors choice become a mandate for ALL vendors Sep 29 13:43:37 Stskeeps, the thread already illustrated why that's pointless. Sep 29 13:43:46 Stskeeps: because questions are avoided Sep 29 13:44:02 and the massive issues that thinking introduces when you put control in the hands of carriers and OEMs. Sep 29 13:44:06 Stskeeps: its not a conspiracy, it is standard practice in many markets Sep 29 13:44:16 Stskeeps: I wish it was "just a sticker" .... Graham Cobb answered that with his marketing Sep 29 13:44:17 Stskeeps: no, that's not what the sticker says :) Sep 29 13:44:51 ok, so, honestly Sep 29 13:45:01 The sticker is phrased in such a way as to FUDify unstickered apps Sep 29 13:45:06 Stskeeps: the sticker says 'this SORT OF COULD install on a meego compliant device, if the vendor, architecture, profile, etc, etc don't say otherwise' Sep 29 13:45:29 achipa: why 'sort of could'? Sep 29 13:46:15 ok, but again: put yourself in a vendor's shoes: what is the benefit to restrict 3rd party deps other than meego core and eventual profile? Sep 29 13:46:30 Stskeeps: sort of - because it depends on the factors outlined above Sep 29 13:46:49 Netbook stuff isn't going to work on handset. Sep 29 13:46:59 Stskeeps: that argument goes both way, though - what is the benefit of having a compliancy program everybody ignores ? Sep 29 13:47:15 (everybody as in your developers, other stores, etc) Sep 29 13:47:30 achipa: ok, so it starts out with the trademark program, right. the ability to say X for MeeGo or whatever, right? Sep 29 13:47:52 Stskeeps: the benefit is they het to keep their business practices, and they control what their customers can do Sep 29 13:48:09 Stskeeps: and service providers are happy with controlled customers Sep 29 13:48:24 berndhs: sorry, i don't get you Sep 29 13:48:47 berndhs: totally unrelated - they can disallow compliant apps just as well, it doesn't change anything Sep 29 13:48:48 manufacturers don't like stuff they don't know running on their devices Sep 29 13:49:09 service providers don't like other services on devices they have contracts for Sep 29 13:49:28 except this has nothing to deal with compliance.. Sep 29 13:49:33 achipa: no the can't if the user can isntall anything they want Sep 29 13:49:54 berndhs: and what's that got to do with compliancy ? Sep 29 13:49:57 Stskeeps: yesit does, compliance says what can be installed and what can't Sep 29 13:50:01 berndhs: no, it doesn't Sep 29 13:50:05 berndhs: no, its doesnt Sep 29 13:50:33 it does to a large extent Sep 29 13:50:53 it says what gets a sticker. It's up to the manufacturer to decide what he/she wants to do with the sticker OR each app individually Sep 29 13:51:11 achipa: as i see the situation, the use of meego trademark for an app (for meego, etc) means conforming to app compliance. Sep 29 13:51:26 means/requires Sep 29 13:52:12 the thing is this is not about control, just *trying* to preemtpively avoid fragmentation - and not being too good at it Sep 29 13:52:26 what's hoped to be created (as a platform value) is that users can trust a platform that when there's a sticker saying "Foo for MeeGo", it -will- run on your MeeGo device Sep 29 13:52:35 sticker on an app Sep 29 13:52:42 do we have this in android apps atm? Sep 29 13:53:08 Stskeeps: this died the moment the decision for multiple profiles was made Sep 29 13:53:52 achipa: Flash for MeeGo would work on multiple profiles as it targets core. PictureTouch may only work on MeeGo handset (as indicated) Sep 29 13:54:30 Whether or not it's actually secure, usable on your UX, or not going to fill up your rootfs being a separate issue. Sep 29 13:54:51 Stskeeps: the point is, you can have a meego touch based app that is meego compliant and at the same time it being utterly useless on a meego compliant netbook device Sep 29 13:55:28 stskeeps, it's hard to get stickers that stick to software Sep 29 13:55:32 bits are so slippery Sep 29 13:55:36 it also inflates the size of non-compliant apps with duplicated libs, and puts pressure on the core lib to allow low quality libs because some big guy wants them Sep 29 13:56:06 achipa: so you're saying we shouldn't even try to bring in that platform value as it's impossible to do right? Sep 29 13:56:28 Stskeeps: to make things worse, android does have that to an extent, though mostly because they did not have the time to break enough backwards compatibility :) but they are headed for that hell certainly Sep 29 13:57:56 Stskeeps, can we do it without being obnoxious and anti-open source? Sep 29 13:58:01 berndhs: and.... it doesn't mean what it says on the tin. Sep 29 13:58:16 Stskeeps: what I'm saying is that this is fitting pants on a horse - something will have to get adapted or refocused here, either MeeGo or the definitions around it Sep 29 13:58:18 it means "works with MeeGo for sure" Sep 29 13:58:36 it says "the *only* thing that works on MeeGo" Sep 29 13:59:00 it says "if you don't have this sticker then you suck" Sep 29 13:59:11 lbt: right Sep 29 13:59:14 that's the problem Sep 29 13:59:34 lbt: where do you extract the two latter from? Sep 29 13:59:37 it says "Mr Vendor... don't trust apps without this sticker" Sep 29 13:59:39 Stskeeps: it's as if marketing dudes went out to ask android dev "whats your biggest problem" and they said fragmentation - so they made the compliancy based on that criteria Sep 29 14:00:04 ok, so how would we combat fragmentation in a open source way? Sep 29 14:00:04 :P Sep 29 14:00:08 Stskeeps: find a "Compliance" programme and look at the way people understand it to work Sep 29 14:00:27 Stskeeps: and at the same time other dudes had the task to bring as many vendors as possible, with all their profiles and interests Sep 29 14:00:36 by definition if you have things labelled compliant then things that are not labelled are not compliant Sep 29 14:00:39 Stskeeps: what do the words "not compliant" mean to most people ? Sep 29 14:00:40 what if some program needs some ux in order to work Sep 29 14:00:52 and somehow the two groups of these dudes never met Sep 29 14:00:55 lbt: admittedly, i wouldn't want to put a non-compliant app in my store as people would complain to me when it doesn't install Sep 29 14:01:07 lbt: see now you're infected Sep 29 14:01:20 not having the sticker doesn't mean it won't work Sep 29 14:01:26 i know Sep 29 14:01:38 but how do i know this in advance? Sep 29 14:01:41 "people would complain to me when it doesn't install" when, not "if" Sep 29 14:02:11 lbt, and how are you sure that everyone do things rightly ? Sep 29 14:02:12 that's what is attempted, knowing that i can install those things in advance Sep 29 14:02:22 Stskeeps: the other side of the coin is you don't know in advance which new libs and app are going to save your economic butt Sep 29 14:02:49 Khertan: technical problem Sep 29 14:02:51 berndhs: i don't disagree Sep 29 14:03:22 Stskeeps: but why are you showing people stuff they cannot install ? Sep 29 14:03:27 gah. /me thinks using "bernd" in nicknames shouldn't be allowed. Sep 29 14:03:32 There is a place for a sticker that says "minimal app - pretty safe" Sep 29 14:03:45 Aard: what's wrong with my name ? Sep 29 14:04:07 achipa: i'm not, i just said i wouldn't put non-compliant in as to save my poor telephone supporters from eventual angry calls Sep 29 14:04:10 :P Sep 29 14:04:22 berndhs: the tons of highlights I get Sep 29 14:04:34 Aard: expect me to remember a nick for myself , do you :) Sep 29 14:04:59 Stskeeps: don't forget that stores might come up with their own compliancy rules if it fits them better Sep 29 14:05:01 * lbt offers Aard a better regexp Sep 29 14:05:06 berndhs: oh, sorry, I wasn't aware of your limited mental capabilities :p Sep 29 14:05:12 which would be bad for *everyone* Sep 29 14:05:55 * Khertan didn't care about store, but just hope we can use 3rd party repository from the Application Manager, and hope that the application manager will not put stupid limitation as on maemo. Sep 29 14:05:58 i personally think we should explore how to properly allow for: first-party (platform) and second-party (developer) dependencies Sep 29 14:06:08 Stskeeps: the concept is sounds.. the phrasing sucks Sep 29 14:06:11 and third-party (sharing components) Sep 29 14:06:35 I do support the concept of "so simple it works anywhere"-app Sep 29 14:06:36 second-party components should be possible, given the installation into /opt/packagename and such. Sep 29 14:07:20 third-party, ie, a bunch of apps sharing SDL needs a solution too Sep 29 14:07:46 lbt, a url that call the web browser isn"t an application :) Sep 29 14:08:05 Stskeeps, or python or anything else Sep 29 14:08:38 (by python i mean python modules) Sep 29 14:09:01 Khertan: python modules is one of the reasons I got into this fight in the first place Sep 29 14:09:51 lbt: if you had just one second to answer: i have an app 'mer' that depends on meego platform and a theme, what conditions would you set up for testing that this will install onto a meego device and what restrictions should there be? Sep 29 14:09:56 lbt, and this is one of the reason when i didn't believe on nokia/intel/meego for my future device, when i see they are talking of c++/qt everywhere Sep 29 14:09:57 you can assume noone else uses the theme Sep 29 14:10:27 s/when/ Sep 29 14:10:27 Stskeeps: I hear ya ! Sadly, the point is it seems this stuff is largely irrelevant - the compliancy is there to push the marketing image of a unified platform (shooting itself in the foot if necessary) Sep 29 14:11:08 achipa: so qt everywhere is bullshit? ;) Sep 29 14:11:42 Stskeeps: irrelevant to compliancy - you can write a non-qt app that is compliant Sep 29 14:11:47 (silly as it is) Sep 29 14:12:15 practically all the compliant stuff right now is non-qt :) Sep 29 14:12:16 even with insane amounts of planning and forethought...the only way one can deal with these insanities, is to stumble through them... Sep 29 14:12:24 Stskeeps: I would issue an apt-get --download-only and see if it worked Sep 29 14:12:53 Stskeeps: not for a moment was there a question of whether we can find a good technical solution - the whole thing is a one sentence premise (my guess - based on feedback from Android developers) and now we're fitting the universe to it Sep 29 14:13:23 * lbt has to go .... l8r Sep 29 14:13:48 has there been anything on who eventually decides this for meego ? Sep 29 14:13:58 achipa: otoh, we can't say 'no, can't be done! unpossible!' Sep 29 14:14:36 the technical solution isn't simple, either Sep 29 14:14:43 achipa: so qt everywhere is bullshit? ;) < i think Sep 29 14:15:00 really, this is new territory, not just for us, but for Android, etc. Sep 29 14:15:02 the easiest way out is actually: only depend on the platform Sep 29 14:15:04 Stskeeps: certainly ! but that's why I sad something has to give/change. You can't keep on shoving a box through a circular hole for too long... Sep 29 14:15:05 specially the nokia vision which is c++/qt everywhere Sep 29 14:15:24 achipa: agreed Sep 29 14:16:07 achipa: another problem of this whole discussion is that people really have different understanding of terms and most importantly what's trying to be solved.. Sep 29 14:16:57 i am actually leaning towards that for 1.1, while solutions are made, the only 'sane' technical solution, given the timeframe, is 'only depend on the platform' Sep 29 14:17:47 Stskeeps: hey, that's what I said (or at least meant) when talking about the two groups of dudes who both have a good goal, but apparently fail to meet and sync :) Sep 29 14:17:52 yeah.. Sep 29 14:18:14 achipa: well, 1.1 is not the prettiest platform.. hopefully next iteration should kill the last irritating bits Sep 29 14:18:49 Stskeeps, you ll have many things to kill Sep 29 14:18:50 Hopefully without irrevocably breaking things in the long term. . . . Sep 29 14:18:58 Stskeeps: though the 'only platform' thing kills the bling appeal... Sep 29 14:19:25 achipa: i think a meego touch app could work in a netbook, though Sep 29 14:19:38 even in a tv, for what it matters Sep 29 14:19:40 there's no reason why it couldn't Sep 29 14:19:59 the discussion is how we make the difference as minimal as possible Sep 29 14:19:59 :P Sep 29 14:20:04 ? lack of pointer input ? Sep 29 14:20:12 achipa: nintendo wii ;) Sep 29 14:20:23 and still have app being usable Sep 29 14:20:29 Stskeeps: i *would* kinda put that under pointer :) Sep 29 14:21:28 multi targeted UIs in our own experience is difficult, the only thing that can really help here, is well defined human interface guidelines Sep 29 14:21:48 we already have part of the battle won, with a definitive set of user experiences to target Sep 29 14:21:55 TSCHAKeee2: if you say hildon, no suppoer for you ! :D Sep 29 14:22:22 achipa: it's not about toolkits really Sep 29 14:22:35 it's about making sure the user gets a consistent experience in line with the UX. Sep 29 14:22:39 achipa: but you're right, these people need to sit down in same room and talk Sep 29 14:22:41 TSCHAKeee2: (feeble attempt at a joke) Sep 29 14:22:47 achipa: ;) Sep 29 14:23:08 achipa: apologies, i am trying to contribute my own experience in this matter. ;) Sep 29 14:23:24 TSCHAKeee2: what's your expectations to meego as an app developer/solution maker? Sep 29 14:23:28 we have to deal with similar issues in LinuxMCE (we target a whole mess of devices.) Sep 29 14:23:31 within compliance Sep 29 14:23:59 TSCHAKeee2: agree except for the 'definitive set of user experiences', that's not definive by a long shot Sep 29 14:24:37 Stskeeps: simple, define well enough how the app should work on the different target devices, and i can make something that works on all those devices. If need be, take the UX icons you see on the web site, have a sticker that greys some of them out, if they don't work on say, IVI, etc. Sep 29 14:25:27 :nod: Sep 29 14:25:31 achipa: this is what needs to be defined and focused..not perfect..but enough so that there is rough consensus. Sep 29 14:25:55 guys, it can't be perfect, but some ground rules can be set. Sep 29 14:26:25 anyone in here have bootchart.jar ? Sep 29 14:27:12 question: are people expecting boxed software? Sep 29 14:27:19 It'd be helpful to set down all of the requirements before we start off on the discussion. Sep 29 14:27:30 or is the sticker terminology virtual Sep 29 14:27:52 virtual Sep 29 14:28:22 but I can go into pc world and browse the shelves for tonnes of software Sep 29 14:28:47 lcuk: a good question, nobody said that a store HAS to be virtual/net based Sep 29 14:29:19 http://www.splashtop.com/blog/ Sep 29 14:29:19 lcuk: as in, you could sell it on a mem card or whatever, in a box and all Sep 29 14:29:21 also would have to work out how to actually introduce said software onto the device Sep 29 14:29:25 MeeGo Handset running on OMAP4 Sep 29 14:30:04 the zoom thingy, right ? Sep 29 14:30:12 blaze Sep 29 14:33:49 yo Stskeeps Sep 29 14:33:54 moo Sep 29 14:33:55 o/ Sep 29 14:35:55 tablet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrdrBefMAEc Sep 29 14:36:51 yeah, i saw that not too long ago Sep 29 14:37:06 ooh thiago it almost manages to work at expected speed on the omap4 :P Sep 29 14:37:11 thiago: would you consider it a release blocker if handset UX can't run non-mtf apps? Sep 29 14:37:18 that's neat but I can't help but notice the annoying delay Sep 29 14:37:19 any idea why the photo viewer isnt loading thumbnails? Sep 29 14:37:37 Stskeeps: yes Sep 29 14:37:39 (time taken to load each picture appears to be scanning the full image instead of a tiny thumb) Sep 29 14:37:43 Stskeeps: but I'm biased Sep 29 14:37:52 thiago: can't run being 'show up as a white screen' Sep 29 14:37:57 Stskeeps, is tracker still wreaking havoc upon boot and generally being nasty? Sep 29 14:38:00 TomaszD: no Sep 29 14:38:07 Stskeeps: have we found out why? Sep 29 14:38:16