**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Oct 03 02:59:57 2010 Oct 03 05:40:47 Hi! where I can get the source code of Meego-handset? Oct 03 05:41:26 meego.gitorious.org has most of the UX components. the rest you need to get from src.rpms at repo.meego.com Oct 03 05:43:52 sofar: thank you so much :) Oct 03 06:06:20 hi Oct 03 06:07:11 I'm trying to create a rule to make xorg not use my Joystick as a mouse, but when I added something on /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d the mouse and keyboard stopped working :P any hint is appreciated :D Oct 03 06:09:46 !time Oct 03 06:10:56 wh00p Oct 03 06:11:01 who's got the time ? Oct 03 06:11:30 * mrtroll is here! Oct 03 06:12:12 sinny Oct 03 06:12:13 sup Oct 03 06:13:48 HEY! Oct 03 06:13:54 WHAT IS MEEGO? Oct 03 06:14:13 HELLO Oct 03 06:14:16 ARE YOU HOME? Oct 03 06:15:22 HUH Oct 03 06:15:25 WHAT THE FUCK Oct 03 06:15:32 EVERYBODY SLEEPING OR WHAT ? Oct 03 06:15:46 MACDRUNK, WHATS UP Oct 03 06:15:54 TROLLKARLEN, WHATS UP Oct 03 06:16:11 SOMEBODY TELL A NIGA WHAT MEEGO IS Oct 03 06:16:29 * mrtroll WONDERS IF U FEWLS HAVE A WWW SITE Oct 03 06:16:30 ? Oct 03 06:16:43 BYE COTIGAO Oct 03 06:17:37 WELL Oct 03 06:17:39 WHAT Oct 03 06:17:40 IS Oct 03 06:17:41 THE Oct 03 06:17:42 DEAL Oct 03 06:17:44 WITH Oct 03 06:17:45 THIS Oct 03 06:17:46 DEAD Oct 03 06:17:47 ASS Oct 03 06:17:49 CHANNEL Oct 03 06:33:34 and the troll defeats himself! Oct 03 06:33:36 rofl Oct 03 06:35:08 wow, Oct 03 06:35:15 wonders of stupidity never cease. Oct 03 06:44:17 sigh Oct 03 06:45:32 hello Oct 03 06:46:04 hi Oct 03 06:46:29 I've seen that last 1.0.x build is dated 29 september, while the 1st octobe one is tagged as 1.1.80... 1.1.80 shouldn't be an alpha of 1.2? Oct 03 06:46:50 we branched for 1.1 off trunk Oct 03 06:46:59 trunk is now officially pre-1.2 Oct 03 06:47:05 so, 1.1.80 Oct 03 06:47:30 so yes, trunk is a pre-alpha for 1.2 Oct 03 06:47:43 I see :) so, to have something really close to 1.1 I'll have to take the september 29th, one, right? Oct 03 06:48:14 if you want to follow 1.1 development, don't use 1.1.80+ Oct 03 06:48:28 thanks, sofar :) Oct 03 06:49:00 I dunno if you can answer this, but.... can you tell the date of the 1.1 release? Oct 03 06:50:20 when? Oct 03 06:50:39 sofar: yep ;) Oct 03 06:50:43 standard answer to when questions: "before christmas, but I won't say which year" Oct 03 06:51:01 hehe ;) Oct 03 06:51:33 thanks, anyway Oct 03 06:52:10 there's rumors plenty Oct 03 06:54:00 I was going to fill bugs, but I decided to move to last trunk (of 1.1) before doing so, just to not notify bugs that are already been fixed Oct 03 06:55:59 please report any more trolling to me if you see any. PM me so I get a log and can work with freenode staff. Oct 03 08:16:03 how am I supposed to format a device on meego? Oct 03 08:33:58 Morning, all Oct 03 08:34:13 morn Oct 03 08:34:40 Stskeeps: Is "yeah, we've released this shiny platform, but you can't write your own plain Qt apps for it" *really* going to be a good message in November? Oct 03 08:35:00 Jaffa: that part i don't disagree with Oct 03 08:35:05 Jaffa: it was about the email part Oct 03 08:35:22 The platform will be a laughing stock on Engadget, Ars, OSNews, LWN, ... Oct 03 08:35:31 Jaffa: i think someone just didn't get the message of how big that bug actually is :) Oct 03 08:36:05 so i'm going to make an undeniable bug report for it Oct 03 08:36:09 Stskeeps: Indeed; but as you know a platform without apps isn't easy to make successful. If people can't use it (say to do their email), they won't use it regularly, so they won't hack on it Oct 03 08:36:59 well, otoh a really buggy implementation also reflects badly Oct 03 08:37:07 so it's a hard choice Oct 03 08:37:08 Stskeeps: Very true Oct 03 08:39:12 i just spent a week getting fennec on ARM up to shape (crashed on boot for some awful reason) so we're really trying our best, but it's hard to say that 1.1 is at the stage as was hoped initially Oct 03 08:39:45 i'm kinda hoping someone will pick up 1.1 and do a n900-centric 'end-user' thing for it Oct 03 08:39:51 should be really easy Oct 03 08:40:27 especially if you take back 1.2 bits Oct 03 08:40:51 (time to bring back Mer? ;p) Oct 03 08:41:35 gah Oct 03 08:42:37 mm? Oct 03 08:45:29 Stskeeps, the thought of reviving mer and making a fork of another distro Oct 03 08:45:33 nah, not fork Oct 03 08:45:46 productize Oct 03 08:45:47 :P Oct 03 08:46:02 aaah, so more like the relationship between debian and maemo? :P Oct 03 08:46:10 less insane Oct 03 08:46:21 insanity creeps in around the edges Oct 03 08:46:41 I'm sure the people who designed maemo didn't sit down and think 'gee, let's do something totally insane.' Oct 03 08:46:52 I'm sure they just made the 'expedient' choice when problems came up Oct 03 08:47:24 oh course, I won't dissuade anyone else from doing that Oct 03 08:47:52 but frankly.. things will look very good for 1.2, but it's a 6 month cycle away Oct 03 08:48:27 and with small leaps you can greatly improve matters Oct 03 08:49:52 so more like 'backports' Oct 03 08:50:08 yeah Oct 03 08:50:23 we'll be staying on .35 for 1.2 too it sounds like, so even kernel improvements will be easy Oct 03 08:50:29 sorry. that initial overreaction is still pretty hardwired :) Oct 03 08:51:04 i think the important thing is just to maintain images Oct 03 08:51:04 :P Oct 03 08:52:07 * Stskeeps should make one of those images with sgx vsync.. Oct 03 09:26:57 hi Oct 03 09:27:26 is there a wiki-page where there is a list of netbook models with the status of support? Oct 03 09:30:33 Jaffa: http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7881 Oct 03 09:30:39 fale: I think so Oct 03 09:31:13 (and thiago might want to read that one too) Oct 03 09:31:22 hi thiago_home :). Well, I hope there is, but I've searched with google but haven't found it :( Oct 03 09:32:38 fale: try searching the wiki instead :-) Oct 03 09:33:19 Stskeeps: sounds like a driver bug Oct 03 09:33:40 thiago_home: it happens on both handset UX SDK (x86) and N900 Oct 03 09:33:50 ok, then a compositor bug Oct 03 09:33:53 yeah Oct 03 09:34:06 can you run stuff like xev? Oct 03 09:34:12 xterm shows same issue Oct 03 09:34:58 we've tried to imply the consequences of even xterm not working in other bugs, but hopefully this one gets the right attention :/ Oct 03 09:35:07 * thiago_home can run xev on Harmattan Oct 03 09:35:18 yeah, newer compositor Oct 03 09:35:32 Stskeeps: ta Oct 03 09:35:37 the bug fix is there but people feel it's not a blocker for 1.1 Oct 03 09:35:38 which is insane Oct 03 09:35:39 thiago_home: http://wiki.meego.com/Netbooks <-- this is the best I found... Oct 03 09:35:40 So plain Qt apps will work on Harmattan ;-) Oct 03 09:36:42 Jaffa: I don't have any ready to test Oct 03 09:36:54 well, actually I do. But it loads meegotouch anyway Oct 03 09:36:57 thiago_home: Well, here's hoping *someone* does :-/ Oct 03 09:37:18 thiago_home: meego doesn't have plainqt, but it should still treat apps and decorate them properly Oct 03 09:37:41 * thiago_home sees /var/cache/fontconfig/12b26b760a24f8b4feb03ad48a333a72-mipsel.cache-2 on the pmap list Oct 03 09:37:45 mipsel? Oct 03 09:37:49 heh Oct 03 09:38:14 Stskeeps: Feel like there should be some kind of link between 7881, 2953, 3551 and 7642 Oct 03 09:39:50 Jaffa: right, let's see how the reaction is first Oct 03 09:40:13 i (sadly) think it's something to really raise a stink over as the bug is really old and had plenty of opportunity to be fixed Oct 03 09:40:22 and it's not just so i can play nethack in xterm Oct 03 09:40:41 i remember trying plain Qt apps on handset day 1 image with aava, got the same white screen Oct 03 09:40:44 can't we just take a newer version of mcompositor? Oct 03 09:41:02 thiago_home: that's what we've suggested but the bug got dismissed cos it was 'just' xterm .. Oct 03 09:41:22 so i think we have a tunnel vision problem Oct 03 09:41:29 hence this bug to show the exact implications Oct 03 09:43:52 Kaadlajk: yeah, i've seen the same problem on x86 too Oct 03 09:43:52 Stskeeps: Well, the comments are also "we're not targetting third party apps in 1.1" - so _someone_ has decided it's not "just" xterm Oct 03 09:44:15 Jaffa: i think it was just phrasing, i don't think they meant exactly what you think it did Oct 03 09:44:23 cos of the definition of 'third party' apps in the bug report Oct 03 09:44:26 put it this way: if plain Qt apps don't run, Qt developers won't develop Oct 03 09:44:30 that includes people like me Oct 03 09:44:36 Stskeeps: didnt think much of it since the day 1 image was buggy anyway, surprised it hasnt been fixed yet Oct 03 09:44:52 Stskeeps, playing nethack is an important usecase! Oct 03 09:45:10 Stskeeps: Indeed, I did wonder if the phrasing meant something like "we're not working with any specific third party apps for 1.1, so it's not a priority for any of those customers" Oct 03 09:45:37 Jaffa: i did at first wonder too but that was way too insane as we might as well just ditch SDK program as well if that was the attitude.. Oct 03 09:45:43 sounds like 1.1 is not meant for actual device shipment Oct 03 09:45:44 which hasn't happened ;) Oct 03 09:46:06 "no one is going to install anything on 1.1, so we don't have to worry about apps we don't ship" Oct 03 09:46:22 well, people are basing things on 1.0 so. Oct 03 09:46:23 :P Oct 03 09:46:38 there's a very good reason why people are doing that: Oct 03 09:46:43 1.0 is out, 1.1 isn't Oct 03 09:46:43 thiago_home, i assure you, that's not how tech media will see it Oct 03 09:46:55 :nod: Oct 03 09:47:08 but we really shouldn't deploy a platform for anyone to base anything off that meego api apps won't work on :) Oct 03 09:47:26 and MeeGo needs all the good PR it can get at the moment Oct 03 09:47:35 1.1 will have support for mp3 etc in repo? (or like 1.0 you need to add an external repo or compile) Oct 03 09:47:37 TermanaN900: I don't think anyone's disagreeing with you here ;-) Oct 03 09:47:48 Stskeeps, any idea how thp managed to get the gtk preview of gpodder running on it? or was that complete mockup not on device? Oct 03 09:48:08 fale: no, royalty issues Oct 03 09:48:23 lcuk: uncertain Oct 03 09:48:39 Stskeeps: even for just putting a package into the repo (like all the distro do?) Oct 03 09:48:57 fale: repo server is in the US, :P Oct 03 09:49:09 Stskeeps: uh, I see the problem ;) Oct 03 09:49:09 fale: nothing stops anyone rom putting up their own repo though Oct 03 09:49:28 Stskeeps: like the ctual community repo of 1.0 Oct 03 09:49:33 fale: for instance Oct 03 09:50:40 lcuk: it's possible to make things work a little bit if you kill mdecorator Oct 03 09:51:04 but that's really a fail too Oct 03 09:51:20 * lcuk wonders how things work on the xvideo uncomposited channel Oct 03 09:51:39 not sure if we've tested xv or not Oct 03 09:51:48 i guess we have Oct 03 09:51:59 no but theres newer xv around i assume Oct 03 09:52:26 * lcuk will get motivated to look next week Oct 03 11:04:43 if anyone is interested I'm currently writing up my Grub2 netboot guide Oct 03 11:29:43 where can i find harmattan firmware? Oct 03 11:30:28 you won't find harmattan firmware :) Oct 03 11:30:41 MeeGo on the other hand you will find here: Oct 03 11:30:57 http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/ Oct 03 11:31:02 steinex, speak with your nokia wrangler and note this channel is publicly logged Oct 03 11:35:56 i am thinking of getting a phone i can do dev work for in python, i was looking at symbian phones as these have good support for python, but the gui is very limited, the other is maemo (n900) but was wondering am i right in thinking meego is now the OS Nokia is gonna be using for new smart phones Oct 03 11:36:45 hmm Oct 03 11:36:47 apexi200sx: off-topic, but there's also openmoko Oct 03 11:36:59 the meego site states that native install of meego on n900 is not possible Oct 03 11:37:03 is that true? Oct 03 11:37:14 i have no sd-card and would rather like to flash it directly Oct 03 11:37:14 not yet, yeah Oct 03 11:41:25 ok Oct 03 11:42:00 i am thinking whether to wait for the N9 although detials of features are sketchy Oct 03 11:42:36 hmm Oct 03 11:42:51 if you have a need to do something now, base your decisions on what you know today Oct 03 11:42:57 ^this Oct 03 11:42:58 apexi200sx: I'd guess at "everything the N900 does, but better". Oct 03 11:43:02 But what lcuk said. Oct 03 11:43:36 there isn't a firm release date yet and even then it may slip into next year, so if you want to develop now... Oct 03 11:43:38 yeah thats what i m thinking, the n900 has been out a while and maybe the OS wonl;t be upgradeable, and Maemo is now being replaced with meego, hence wait for N9 Oct 03 11:44:01 and for me to buy a n900 (SIM free unlockled) is like £320 Oct 03 11:44:17 well the N9 will cost more :) Oct 03 11:44:28 apexi200sx, the developer story around qt utilisations is that qt is best whether you want maemo meego or symbian Oct 03 11:44:29 yeah i understand that Oct 03 11:44:30 oh, and all N900 are unlocked btw Oct 03 11:44:30 lol Oct 03 11:44:50 yep i agree QT is the way to go Oct 03 11:45:12 Once N9 will be out, it also won't be upgradeable, so it makes sense to wait for N10 Oct 03 11:45:13 unfortunately there aren;t any QT bindings for Python on Symbian Oct 03 11:45:25 otherwise i would use that Oct 03 11:45:35 and C++ dev on Symbian, is painful Oct 03 11:45:43 in fact C++ dev is painful IMHO Oct 03 11:45:55 That's because you're not thinking in Qt yet ;) Oct 03 11:45:58 Any development is painful, in fact. Oct 03 11:46:22 But blogging is not! Oct 03 11:46:33 RST38h: Like, totally! ;) Oct 03 11:46:52 apexi200sx: And, specifically, it's Qt, not QuickTime ;) Oct 03 11:47:10 now QT, *that's* painful ;) Oct 03 11:47:28 Indeed :) Oct 03 11:47:39 apexi200sx, didnt you say python was heavily used in symbian? Oct 03 11:48:00 " i was looking at symbian phones as these have good support for python," Oct 03 11:48:01 sorry Oct 03 11:48:11 "on the qt" Oct 03 11:48:20 good support but umm, err cant do qt :P Oct 03 11:48:26 i have devlioped mobile web app for field workers, but if there's no mobile data coverage it causes problems hence wanting to create a native app for "offline" usage, i could either go Android, Iphone Windows mobile or Maemo/Meego, the latter is the only one with full python support and i could whip an app up much quicker Oct 03 11:48:36 afaik theres 2 sets of qt bindings for qt on n900 Oct 03 11:49:01 lcuk: yeah pyqt and pyside Oct 03 11:49:17 pyside is the Nokia supported (and open sourced) binding Oct 03 11:49:22 apexi200sx, betting that whichever platform toolkit you choose it wont be as simple as you think ! Oct 03 11:49:57 the other thing we should say as well is that you don't need an N900 to do the development (or even the testing for that matter) Oct 03 11:50:50 stephg: I could go the umulator route but in the past i have found apps that should work and do in the emulator, then has problems on the device Oct 03 11:52:00 i used to do windows mobile dev, but now MS has sort of abandoned that platform in favour of Windows mobile 7 which now requires development in a "special" version of silverlight Oct 03 11:52:03 PITA Oct 03 11:52:54 I'm not an app developer (I'm not any kind of developer for that matter) so I can't comment really but I believe the qemu image is pretty close to the real thing Oct 03 11:53:44 stephg, its a PITA to pickup my desktop and rotate to portrait Oct 03 11:53:54 or you know, touch it Oct 03 11:54:31 but yes it works Oct 03 11:54:44 heh, well the touch yes Oct 03 11:54:58 I thought ctrl-alt-R rotated? Oct 03 11:55:11 * stephg hasn't ever tried so doesn't know what he's talking about Oct 03 11:56:04 the android dudes say to always test on a real device too even though the emulator is really good Oct 03 11:56:28 * lcuk has never run his apps in emulator Oct 03 11:56:32 nobody else has either Oct 03 11:57:10 * lcuk makes a note to try again Oct 03 14:31:22 is it possible for me to run the handset ui if i have the netbook image running under xephyr? Oct 03 15:35:19 hi Oct 03 15:35:55 hi Oct 03 15:36:56 http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.0.99/1.0.99.0.20101001.1/netbook/images/meego-netbook-ia32/ <-- this is the mostrecent image I've seen... but on the bugtraker I saw the version 1.0.99.3... but I can't find it :( does someone know where is the last version? Oct 03 15:37:17 get that image and then upgrade as soon as it's installed Oct 03 15:37:38 thiago_home: that image does not start on my netbook :( Oct 03 15:38:01 any error messages? Oct 03 15:38:20 try an older image that does boot then Oct 03 15:41:25 thiago_home: >=1.0.3are fine, and 1.0.90.0 is fine too... no error messages, when the "MeeGo" image appears, soon appear the underscore like the tty one and it hangs Oct 03 15:41:51 ops, <=1.0.3 Oct 03 15:43:51 hey, does anyone know the sizing system for hte conference t-shirts? I can be anywhere from XS to L depending on who made the shirts :P Oct 03 15:44:11 thiago_home: the problem with 1.0.90.0 is that I can't update anything... maybe I have to change the repo? Oct 03 16:56:40 hi Oct 03 16:57:20 I have installed abiword, but I can't find a way to activate the spellcheck... is there a package that I must install? Oct 03 17:08:39 how linuxy will the meego on smartphones/mediaphones bee? as far as I understand maemo is basically a computer in your pocket, able to make calls. will meego allow me to run any debian apps, have full shell access etc? Oct 03 17:09:11 c3l: well, if we say remove 'debian' and say 'posix' instead.. Oct 03 17:09:23 c3l: i can ssh in to my meego on n900 and run with coreutils, bash, install packages with zypper.. Oct 03 17:10:24 c3l: So, very linuxy indeed :) what you are probably asking for, really, is "Does it have an X server", and the answer to that is yes :) Oct 03 17:10:38 sweet :) Oct 03 17:10:53 The reason i guess that's likely to be your question is that's what people tend to mean when they ask that ;) Oct 03 17:10:54 c3l: however, vendors may lock the devices down.. Oct 03 17:10:58 but underneath it'd be real linux Oct 03 17:12:55 hopefully nokia keeps the n9 as open as the n900 was with meego. something linuxy for real in my pocket is what im looking for. and buying a n900 now doesnt feel like a smart move, as newer things are on their way Oct 03 17:13:00 well Oct 03 17:13:07 there'll be open and closed mode Oct 03 17:13:13 in open mode you can't use DRM material Oct 03 17:13:59 you wont be able to force drm material on me even in my grave Oct 03 17:14:05 excellent Oct 03 17:14:14 then you'll be happy in open mode Oct 03 17:14:14 Stskeeps: will the closehave the terminal? Oct 03 17:14:56 no idea Oct 03 17:15:04 this is just based on what we heard on maemo summit Oct 03 17:15:11 Stskeeps: I see, thanks ;) Oct 03 17:17:19 how far into development is meego, when can one expect it to be released together with a smart-/media-phone? Oct 03 17:17:30 dunno Oct 03 17:17:36 personally i expect something on 1.2 instead Oct 03 17:18:06 Stskeeps: you don't belive nokia will release something (n9?) with 1.1? Oct 03 17:18:28 fale: harmattan isn't meego 1.0 or 1.1 based, it's maemo 6 Oct 03 17:19:05 Stskeeps: maybe I lost a piece... I read that the n9 would have been released with meego... Oct 03 17:19:13 yes, they're doing some weird marketing tricks :) Oct 03 17:19:26 meego came a little late in the picture to be a stable platform from day one Oct 03 17:19:27 Stskeeps: oh, I see ;) Oct 03 17:19:35 but i don't know what nokia will release, i only dabble on meego.com :) Oct 03 17:19:40 so theres a difference between maemo 6 and meego? Oct 03 17:19:49 yes Oct 03 17:19:55 hopefully maemo 6 dies pretty quickly Oct 03 17:20:08 Stskeeps: is a gtk vs qt thing? Oct 03 17:20:13 no Oct 03 17:20:28 more like timelines Oct 03 17:21:46 wait what, will the n9 not run meego? will the ship it with a dying platform? Oct 03 17:22:36 c3l: it's complicated, try go to talk.maemo.org and search for meego-harmattan Oct 03 17:22:54 hm okay. thanks! Oct 03 17:23:08 on wikipedia seems like harmattan is based on meego... I'll look there too :), thanks Stskeeps Oct 03 17:23:27 for all purposes, just concentrate on meego Oct 03 17:25:43 Hi All Oct 03 17:25:50 hi vkvraju Oct 03 17:26:08 hi fale: Oct 03 17:26:24 Stskeeps: I'm installing last version to make some trouble-shooting (and bug filled) before 1.1 :) Oct 03 17:26:32 fale: on n900? Oct 03 17:26:52 Stskeeps: sadly I only have an asus 900a ;) Oct 03 17:27:12 ah Oct 03 17:28:33 Stskeeps: I' asking about nokia's meego phone because I'm looking for changing my old phone ;) Oct 03 17:37:54 * CosmoHill pokes cb_ Oct 03 18:53:09 Stskeeps: Can the N900 image charge the battery? Oct 03 18:54:44 yes but not wall charger Oct 03 19:57:22 where do I submit a bug report for the ISO country codes ? Oct 03 19:58:43 berndhs: ISO themselves, presumably Oct 03 19:58:53 berndhs: You think you've found a bug in ISO-3166?! Oct 03 19:59:05 yes, you cannot say "no country" in ISO Oct 03 19:59:21 "" or NULL Oct 03 19:59:35 sure but that's not valid Oct 03 19:59:51 they should have a zero in their numbering scheme :) Oct 03 19:59:54 berndhs: That depends on your app Oct 03 20:00:14 right, it is up to the app hwo to handle invalid codes Oct 03 20:00:17 just steal norway's, they won't mind Oct 03 20:00:37 or, (blame) canada Oct 03 20:00:53 antarctica won't start a war over it I assume Oct 03 20:01:10 Or VA. You might burn in hell, but you'll only piss off the 6 people who live there. Oct 03 20:01:24 berndhs: don't underestimate the penguins Oct 03 20:14:32 I swear I just saw an iMac on a windows advert Oct 03 20:16:35 there are mac boys everiwhere Oct 03 22:22:12 cyas **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Oct 04 02:59:57 2010