**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Oct 04 02:59:57 2010 Oct 04 03:01:02 hey Oct 04 03:02:57 i wondering if meego any good Oct 04 03:19:39 What changed to allow the N900 images on repo.meego.com? Oct 04 03:22:11 they got clearance to redistribute the SGX drivers and firmware blobs Oct 04 03:48:20 morning Oct 04 05:24:27 GeneralAntilles: we managed to get redistributable licenses for the few closed bits we have Oct 04 06:10:15 Jaffa: text might be a little too sensationalist :) Oct 04 07:35:29 hi Oct 04 07:35:49 i need some info regarding meego platform (sim related apis) Oct 04 07:36:29 i want to know , is there any api which can be used to set the simstatus though sim card in inserted into the device Oct 04 07:36:43 actually i need this to test some use case for my app Oct 04 07:36:49 ofono Oct 04 07:36:55 or qt mobility Oct 04 07:36:56 so i want to set the sim status Oct 04 07:37:00 anything Oct 04 07:37:11 i was searching in qtmobility Oct 04 07:37:27 but i cudnt find any such api which can set the sim status Oct 04 07:38:05 http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.0-tp/qsystemdeviceinfo.html Oct 04 07:38:10 i looked into this Oct 04 07:38:16 but cudnt find anything which i need Oct 04 07:38:22 so is there any way Oct 04 07:40:06 rsadhu: use dbus to communicate with ofono to find out what you need then Oct 04 07:40:41 ofono?? whats that Oct 04 07:40:51 thats some service which dbus can communincate to Oct 04 07:41:47 why would you want to set the sim status? Oct 04 07:41:50 Ofono is a part of the telephony stack for meego Oct 04 07:42:07 ok Oct 04 07:42:15 i want it to simulate one use case Oct 04 07:42:20 called hotswap Oct 04 07:42:30 i m working on javascript extensions Oct 04 07:42:38 so there is one use case Oct 04 07:42:42 where i need to do this Oct 04 07:44:03 @TermanaDesire :: can you please guide , how would i use the dbus to query from ofono ? Oct 04 07:44:06 look into ofono and phonesim, unless you need a real sim Oct 04 07:44:08 any example Oct 04 07:45:01 rsadhu: in qsysteminfo's master branch would be the connman/ofono code Oct 04 07:46:49 there is also some in meego repo Oct 04 07:47:31 rsadhu: I suggest you Google for an explaination Oct 04 07:48:19 ok thanks Oct 04 07:48:24 for help Oct 04 07:48:25 I'm not so great at giving lengthy explainations and examples from a virtual keyboard that likes to auto correct things not in it's dictionary ;p Oct 04 07:48:25 :) Oct 04 07:48:49 ha ha:) Oct 04 08:05:12 jos laitain leave tai part komennon niin sanoo 10:35 -!- Sage_: No such channel Oct 04 08:05:52 sorry, wrong channel Oct 04 08:06:06 ? :) Oct 04 08:25:13 Stskeeps: ping Oct 04 08:25:18 pong Oct 04 08:25:29 hardfp: do you know the latest? Oct 04 08:26:03 * thiago has just got a report saying that softfp introduces severe performance penalties Oct 04 08:26:10 thiago: well, i haven't heard anything new in my communication channels Oct 04 08:26:22 do you know of a task in the bugtracker? Oct 04 08:26:32 * thiago starts searching Oct 04 08:27:07 thiago: there's also a problem that hardfp and softfp is ABI incompatible (i believe) and in addition to that, fennec breaks with it atm.. Oct 04 08:27:39 that's the point Oct 04 08:27:53 we should *really* choose hardfp now to avoid breakage in the future Oct 04 08:28:02 with 20 days before release? :P Oct 04 08:28:26 Harmattan is switching to hardfp. If MeeGo doesn't switch, apps will be ABI-incompatible. Oct 04 08:28:52 thiago: well, i've tried to raise that point before but noone took heed, if you can raise hell about it better within the organisation, that'd be good Oct 04 08:29:00 I will Oct 04 08:29:08 that's why I am asking if you know of a task :-) Oct 04 08:29:31 thiago: and people really need to start running test suites of 'does this binary app work on both H and meego arm' Oct 04 08:29:51 i know for a fact qtopengl tying to libGLESv2.so (without .2 suffix) will break Oct 04 08:29:53 then again, it's probably a bad idea to do that Oct 04 08:30:04 qtopengl apps, that is Oct 04 08:30:05 they're different Linux distros Oct 04 08:30:36 Is harmattan *suppose* to be ability compatible though? Oct 04 08:30:58 Abi Oct 04 08:31:08 thiago: i think there exists some kind of marketing belief that an app for meego arm would work on harmattan arm.. Oct 04 08:31:17 or reverse Oct 04 08:31:20 (if only using meego apis) Oct 04 08:31:55 we've been telling linux users not to install binaries from another distro for 20 years Oct 04 08:32:22 Stskeeps: OpenGL doesn't count. The driver makes need to clean up their mess first. Oct 04 08:32:27 :nod: Oct 04 08:32:34 make *one* library that works in GL and GLES Oct 04 08:32:53 settle on the API and ABI for it, then we'll start publicising it Oct 04 08:33:06 otherwise, stick to QPainter and QML if you want code that works in both. Oct 04 08:33:07 well, it's more along lines of inadvertent link dependancies Oct 04 08:33:23 * thiago checks if qmake adds the GL libraries Oct 04 08:34:07 hey guys Oct 04 08:34:13 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=832817#post832817 Oct 04 08:34:18 is this serious? Oct 04 08:34:50 Venemo: keep in mind what is being released: a platform, default images may not have xterm but it's entirely possible to make your own image or install one Oct 04 08:34:56 in fact, n900 images have ssh open over usb Oct 04 08:34:58 quote: "In a surprising turn of events, the next major release of MeeGo (1.1, which is due this month), may not ship with an email client (due to quality issues in it); a terminal to access the underlying OS or the ability to run any third party Qt applications." Oct 04 08:34:59 well Oct 04 08:35:01 yes, qmake auto-adds CONFIG += opengl when you link to QtOpenGL Oct 04 08:35:06 which adds the GL libs Oct 04 08:35:20 Venemo: and the E-mail client is broken beyond belief, so not getting included (a buggy app is worse than the lack of it) Oct 04 08:35:25 Stskeeps: if it won't be able to run 3rd party apps, then how can I run one? :D Oct 04 08:35:40 Venemo: third party apps issue is a bug in the compositor we're insisting on getting fixed Oct 04 08:35:56 Venemo: all the source for the email client etc is there, though Oct 04 08:36:08 the headline is a bit sensationalist Oct 04 08:36:15 Stskeeps: I agree Oct 04 08:36:20 Venemo: install kontact mobile if you want an email client Oct 04 08:36:26 you wrote the sensationist part of it though Stskeeps Oct 04 08:36:39 Stskeeps: okay, but what does this 3rd party app thing mean? Oct 04 08:36:52 Stskeeps: is there no way in MeeGo to run 3rd party apps or what? Oct 04 08:36:54 no.. Oct 04 08:37:02 in fact, i just ran xterm earlier after killing mdecorator Oct 04 08:37:06 thiago, that would be fine except for the "no 3rd party apps" thing Oct 04 08:37:09 Venemo: it just means there's a bug in the compositor that non-MeegoTouch apps don't view properly Oct 04 08:37:14 lcuk: oops Oct 04 08:37:19 Stskeeps: aaah... well that's serious Oct 04 08:37:50 Venemo: yes and someone didn't see the whole implication of not marking this bug srious Oct 04 08:37:56 not worried about lack of official apps or placeholders, its getting other apps running Oct 04 08:38:10 maemo has compatability for lots of frameworks Oct 04 08:38:11 hence the bug.. Oct 04 08:38:31 give people time to answer, it was weekend :) Oct 04 08:38:38 it's a bug, not a policy Oct 04 08:38:39 Stskeeps: so in fact I can run 3rd party apps, but the non-MeeGoTouch apps will look ugly? Oct 04 08:38:46 Stskeeps: what about Gtk/Hildon? Oct 04 08:39:05 Non-meegotouch apps wont show Oct 04 08:39:10 Venemo: the problem is a bug in the compositor that needs to be fixed Oct 04 08:39:29 and ugly is only if they look ugly in general Oct 04 08:39:58 ;p Oct 04 08:40:07 Stskeeps: ahm, and what about the part that says that this is "not targeted for 1.1"? Oct 04 08:40:14 does meegotouch work on symbian? what do you write qt apps targetting symbian with? Oct 04 08:40:30 Venemo: that's the part about someone not understanding the implications of a bug. Oct 04 08:41:21 Venemo: it can be interpreted as 'no 3rd party apps in 1.1 at all' which is an insane interpretation as we might as well not publish a SDK then Oct 04 08:41:29 Venemo: which isn't what it means Oct 04 08:41:38 Venemo: the problem is that even qt apps are getting broken by this :) Oct 04 08:41:55 Stskeeps: I get it, thanks for explaining :) Oct 04 08:42:32 Stskeeps: I heard that people can now make phone calls with new MeeGo images on the N900 Oct 04 08:42:46 and again, remember that 1) it's a platform 2) we're forced into a fixed release schedule 3) noone says things won't be fixed in 1.1 post-release 4) what's ready and quality by release gets in Oct 04 08:42:58 and 5) you can base your own end-user system on top of it Oct 04 08:43:00 Venemo: yes Oct 04 08:43:05 Venemo: and no pesky eula Oct 04 08:44:04 Stskeeps: that's good to hear Oct 04 08:44:06 hm Oct 04 08:44:16 in the end, are there homescreen widgets in MeeGo? Oct 04 08:44:34 i think there's support except we don't have any Oct 04 08:44:59 that's great news Oct 04 08:45:10 and will the Nokia Qt SDK support MeeGo? Oct 04 08:45:31 I heard alterego had success with making a MeeGo sysroot for MADDE Oct 04 08:45:43 i bloody hope so :) Oct 04 08:46:56 and... is there Maemo-like multiple homescreens? Oct 04 08:47:11 dunno Oct 04 08:47:40 i believe so. Oct 04 08:48:20 Stskeeps: Sensationalist might get it the attention it deserves. Oct 04 08:48:47 Stskeeps: I did try and make it clear that MeeGo 1.1 is not an end-user platform; but it was Sunday, and late, and I may have misworded it. Oct 04 08:50:21 :nod: Oct 04 08:55:07 Venemo: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=832839&postcount=5 Oct 04 09:03:17 Stskeeps: thanks! Oct 04 09:03:56 in fact i think people should start organising Oct 04 09:03:56 :P Oct 04 09:04:08 organising what? Oct 04 09:04:24 end-user targetted meego-based distro on n900 Oct 04 09:04:28 based on top of 1.1 Oct 04 09:04:40 TBH, productising MeeGo as it is right now looks hard. MTF/Qt seems to have things which are scrollable which shouldn't be; massive gaps in the themeing etc. Oct 04 09:04:51 Jaffa: agreed, 1.2 should be easier Oct 04 09:05:06 Stskeeps, you mention the Nokia Meego, Suse Meego etc having all the mp3 codecs Oct 04 09:05:09 * Jaffa 'd rather stick with M5 and maybe play with Harmattan HE Oct 04 09:05:19 does the default netbook install include those things? Oct 04 09:05:24 lcuk: Nope Oct 04 09:05:24 lcuk: no Oct 04 09:07:01 ahh Oct 04 09:07:57 mp3 is considered patent-encumbered, so the free software people don't like to include it in their projects Oct 04 09:08:38 anyways, I think we could "borrow" some components from Maemo 5 Oct 04 09:08:43 s how do people play their music in meego at all, do they dualboot a regular media player ? :p Oct 04 09:08:55 Venemo: i wouldn't bother, just wait for 1.2 and ackport our DSP codecs Oct 04 09:09:06 they're free to download, too, we just can't host them on meego.com Oct 04 09:09:18 our DSP codecs? Oct 04 09:09:40 well, TI's Oct 04 09:09:55 from which distro? Oct 04 09:09:56 Stskeeps: if 1.2 is released, what's the point of backporting stuff from 1.2 to 1.1? why don't we simply run 1.2 from then on? Oct 04 09:10:43 Venemo: mostly because there's a scary as hell phase to end-users called 'invasive changes' Oct 04 09:11:00 Venemo, LTS dictates that you maintain stable ABI and component surface against the 1.1 release Oct 04 09:11:10 LTS=? Oct 04 09:11:11 even with a newer 1.2 release Oct 04 09:11:20 not everyone is capable of moving Oct 04 09:12:29 Do you mean LTS or LSB? Oct 04 09:12:31 Venemo, long term support, not directly a meegoism but it explains why you dont simply stop making a branch available Oct 04 09:12:34 ah Oct 04 09:13:26 lcuk: I don't thing the community can do that. If we can keep up with the latest MeeGo releases, that in itself is a miracle Oct 04 09:13:33 lcuk: I think 1.2 would make a better LTS target at the moment anyway Oct 04 09:13:38 sure Oct 04 09:13:47 Venemo: i think you're quite well equipped for it actually Oct 04 09:13:49 but based on what Stskeeps said about backporting Oct 04 09:13:59 Venemo: several people know how to build images from .ks'es, people have OBS experience.. Oct 04 09:14:20 in fact, i think even lcuk could do it Oct 04 09:14:20 ;p Oct 04 09:14:44 well, I dunno Oct 04 09:14:58 * lcuk is actually downloading: http://download3.meego.com/sep09/meego-handset-ia32-1.0.80.9.20100706.1-sdk-pre0901.raw.tar.bz2 Oct 04 09:15:02 this very second :) Oct 04 09:15:15 with the fact we don't have any pesky eulas anymore, the road should be open Oct 04 09:15:19 is there a list about what is missing from MeeGo 1.1 that is necessary for a good end user experience? Oct 04 09:15:36 e-mail client is one Oct 04 09:15:36 Venemo, short answer: quite a bit Oct 04 09:15:37 Venemo: we can start with power management. Oct 04 09:15:45 Stskeeps: what about it? Oct 04 09:15:52 device gets awfully hot and uses a lot of power :) Oct 04 09:15:59 we plan to work on this in 1.2 Oct 04 09:16:02 (same kernel version) Oct 04 09:16:14 Stskeeps: so it depletes the battery too soon? Oct 04 09:16:18 right Oct 04 09:16:45 well, that means that I won't have MeeGo for another half year :) Oct 04 09:17:03 Venemo: the point is that if people start working on it now and provides a 'community-minded' remix as 1.2 development goes on, we have something in short term, as well as an empowered community by 1.2 releases Oct 04 09:18:06 whats the netbook story turning out like, are qt apps happily running there Oct 04 09:18:14 in practice it'd be about shuffling around packages and building images Oct 04 09:18:26 Stskeeps: yeah, but if the "something in short term" is barely usable at best, what's the point? Oct 04 09:18:32 Stskeeps: sorry for the rude question Oct 04 09:18:41 Venemo: you're right - and that's where the 1.2 bits come in Oct 04 09:19:06 cos we are going to devote a lot of time to make things usable Oct 04 09:19:13 Stskeeps: good news Oct 04 09:19:20 Stskeeps: and when is 1.2 due to arrive? Oct 04 09:19:23 in 6 monts Oct 04 09:19:26 hs Oct 04 09:19:38 with full open repositories from day one (already there now) Oct 04 09:19:42 and weekly images Oct 04 09:22:42 Venemo, supposing the widgets story needed improvement. as a developer you know how much of a building site things are Oct 04 09:22:54 lcuk, yes I do Oct 04 09:23:52 you also know about whats needed for your app, how about you have a look at just what support there is now and what you believe you may need Oct 04 09:25:07 lcuk, well, non-MeeGoTouch apps currently don't work at all. So that's the end of the story for my app right now Oct 04 09:25:30 Venemo: yeah.. and that bug needs fixing :) Oct 04 09:25:33 we can all agree on that Oct 04 09:25:59 the other thing is that I would be interested in is homescreen widgets. Noone seems to know about them. Is there a wiki page or something that can tell me how to create a homescreen widget for the MeeGo handset UX? Oct 04 09:26:01 yup Oct 04 09:26:16 Venemo, it might simply not be in place yet. Oct 04 09:26:29 since people have not been trying to run anything else or make their own apps Oct 04 09:27:29 lcuk, well, Stskeeps said that the UX is capable of showing homescreen widgets, just they don't have any Oct 04 09:27:37 i think it is, but i haven't looked closely Oct 04 09:28:42 so, is there anyone on this channel who knows something about this? Oct 04 09:28:55 we need a live meegocam Oct 04 09:29:39 meegocam? Oct 04 09:29:39 timelapse snapshots of whats being hacked on on meego as commits and merge requests are accepted Oct 04 09:30:15 mhm Oct 04 09:31:07 about meegotouch, there's an update to .45 staged right now, which should fix lots of bugs present in the (completely outdated) meegotouch .25 released with 1.1 Oct 04 09:31:43 btw, what does MeeGo use for package management? rpm+yum? Oct 04 09:31:48 rpm+zypper Oct 04 09:32:01 why not yum? Oct 04 09:32:19 Venemo: python isn't the fastest on embedded devices and zypper is fast Oct 04 09:33:14 heh, yum is written in python? Oct 04 09:33:17 lol, I didn't know Oct 04 09:33:23 it is Oct 04 09:33:39 psycho_oreos: okay, then, it was the right decision Oct 04 09:36:47 Venemo, probably Oct 04 09:38:19 out of the images on http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php which is the one that I can flash to the N900 with the flasher tool? Oct 04 09:39:58 don't use those Oct 04 09:40:04 why not? Oct 04 09:40:06 and you need a microsd, and get it from repo.meego.com Oct 04 09:40:13 cos they're obsolete already :) Oct 04 09:40:21 no way I'm gonna install it to a microsd Oct 04 09:40:36 well, no other way atm Oct 04 09:40:49 we don't support NAND installs, system is too big and we don't want a /opt nightmare again Oct 04 09:41:03 hm Venemo whats up with microsd install? Oct 04 09:41:16 I'd like to flash it to the rootfs. with that, I could compare the speed of the System to Maemo Oct 04 09:41:45 Venemo: not possible, sorry - we exceeded the space 5 months back :) Oct 04 09:41:57 the future is emmc installs or microsd Oct 04 09:42:29 (NAND is only ~240mb worth of compressed space) Oct 04 09:42:37 Stskeeps: this is just plain awful. Oct 04 09:43:06 also, we're doing this so people can continue using maemo without destroying it Oct 04 09:43:37 well I prefer to use one OS at a time Oct 04 09:43:58 so the NAND is gonna be sitting there empty, and we will live with the thought that its speed could have been used for something useful, but it isn't. Oct 04 09:44:04 great! Oct 04 09:44:05 Venemo: we plan to use it for swap Oct 04 09:44:15 Stskeeps: good idea Oct 04 09:44:31 Venemo, consider the current maemo install as a safe base camp :) Oct 04 09:44:36 Stskeeps: it'll be faster than the current swap on the eMMC Oct 04 09:44:48 Stskeeps: very good point actually Oct 04 09:45:02 lcuk, I don't like dual boot systems Oct 04 09:45:03 Stskeeps: so um Oct 04 09:45:17 someone poked me to look at mxr.meego.com /meego/ v. /repo.meego.com/ Oct 04 09:45:42 afaik there's no vcs for certain pieces of meego (e.g. the compiler), is that correct? Oct 04 09:45:46 timeless_mbp, I know docS in #maemo noticed some mxr problems Oct 04 09:46:13 lcuk: there was a box change for mxr.maemo.org a while ago which resulted in glimpse not being binary compat w/ the new glibc Oct 04 09:46:18 i fixed that yesterday Oct 04 09:46:32 oh cool beans! :D Oct 04 09:46:35 and would people rather have certain "gaps" filled in, or is it ok to have things missing Oct 04 09:46:48 * timeless_mbp takes a moment to kick git for being "odd" Oct 04 09:47:04 timeless_mbp: yes, it's upstream sources with minimal patches Oct 04 09:47:04 I think just do what you can normally and fill in as and when they are noticed? Oct 04 09:47:30 user: timeless Oct 04 09:47:30 date: Mon Oct 04 11:01:42 2010 +0900 Oct 04 09:47:31 summary: Merge branch 'master' of git://gitorious.org/tracker/tracker Oct 04 09:47:43 does git always do that? Oct 04 09:51:43 timeless_mbp: do you know anything about an issue on fennec with hardfp? Oct 04 09:51:54 hrm Oct 04 09:52:01 which compiler is this Oct 04 09:52:10 gcc 4.4/4.5 Oct 04 09:52:13 and keep in mind that i just got back from a month long vacation yesterday Oct 04 09:52:21 just asking if you've heard of this Oct 04 09:52:23 * timeless_mbp hopes people have blacklisted 4.5.0 Oct 04 09:55:30 thiago: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=600514 Oct 04 09:55:50 the crash in question isn't hardfp specific though, but note comments Oct 04 09:57:03 Hi. Is mail logs located in /var/log/maillog ? Oct 04 10:02:46 Stskeeps: Is the known xulrunner 1.9.2 miscompile with cs2009q3 fixed in this tc? Oct 04 10:04:23 bunk: you'll have to give me some more details than that :) Oct 04 10:04:36 http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=45112 Oct 04 10:05:06 thiago: technically i read that bug this morning :o Oct 04 10:06:15 thiago: the bug basically describes it as "we're doing something that isn't remotely supported but existing code and expecting miracles to happen" Oct 04 10:06:18 = we're stupid Oct 04 10:07:34 Stskeeps: i'll visit work sometime today and talk to people about splitting the bug into useful work items Oct 04 10:08:12 because there should be , , Oct 04 10:08:36 timeless_mbp: right, the funny part is that the crash happens on meego softfp too.. Oct 04 10:08:44 timeless_mbp: so i think it's not only hardfp :) Oct 04 10:09:01 exactly the same crash? Oct 04 10:09:27 "softfp allows the generation of floating point instructions, but still uses the soft-float calling conventions." Oct 04 10:09:33 timeless_mbp: yes, same backtrace Oct 04 10:09:40 timeless_mbp: happened after our 0908 snapshot Oct 04 10:10:11 (gcc 4.5) Oct 04 10:10:29 iirc it's possible to build w/o jit/jm Oct 04 10:10:32 you could try that Oct 04 10:10:38 :nod: Oct 04 10:10:40 * timeless_mbp ponders Oct 04 10:10:52 i spent a week diving into the crashes we had on startup in fennec and ended up with a solution that works Oct 04 10:10:52 how do i move 10gb of photos from my eMMC to my mac? Oct 04 10:11:20 i don't intend to spend another hour with fennec unless i'm ordered to :P Oct 04 10:12:06 ah, that's better Oct 04 10:12:39 (for some reason only the uSD card was exported the first time, now the eMMC is too) Oct 04 10:13:07 Stskeeps, so are you changing -mfloat-abi=softfp to -mfloat-abi=hard or something? Oct 04 10:13:21 ShadowJK: not in meego Oct 04 10:13:29 ShadowJK: at least that's not how it is atm Oct 04 10:14:53 Stskeeps, which was is it now? Oct 04 10:15:12 softfp Oct 04 10:16:21 ok, and you're letting it remain that way, right? Oct 04 10:16:27 both short-term and long-term? Oct 04 10:17:07 well, i don't know what architecture will decide Oct 04 10:17:46 So when you speak of hardfp vs floatfp, it's about -mfpu=? Oct 04 10:18:00 float-abi Oct 04 10:18:03 afaik Oct 04 10:19:20 -mfloat-abi= Oct 04 10:19:51 so have you recently changed this from -mfloat-abi=softfp to something else, or recently changed from something else? Oct 04 10:20:35 none, flags have been static in meego Oct 04 10:22:02 I'm a bit confused because you talk as if you've got two versions, or are in the middle of a transition shaking out bugs from that Oct 04 10:22:23 ShadowJK: harmattan's hardfp, meego's not.. Oct 04 10:22:49 oh Oct 04 10:23:15 ok, that's a bit wtf :) Oct 04 10:58:30 Stskeeps, :P this will amuse you http://www.lolpix.com/pictures/4/Funny_Pictures_880.htm Oct 04 10:58:41 best come back to your blog post I have seen :D Oct 04 11:21:00 fabo: ping Oct 04 11:21:35 thiago: pong Oct 04 11:21:45 fabo: mobility 1.1 packages, do we have them? Oct 04 11:22:14 thiago: we have Qt Mobility packages from master branch Oct 04 11:22:23 thiago: we're skipping 1.1 Oct 04 11:22:34 fabo: so you're on 1.2-pre ? Oct 04 11:22:40 yes Oct 04 11:22:45 how about meego 1.1, will that ship 1.0? Oct 04 11:23:06 MeeGo 1.1 ships QtMobility 1.0.2 Oct 04 11:23:18 ok, thanks for the help Oct 04 11:23:18 MeeGo 1.2 will ship QtMobility 1.2.x Oct 04 11:56:27 Stskeeps: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=600514#c19 Oct 04 11:57:29 Stskeeps: that task is that the JIT doesn't understand the hardfp ABI Oct 04 11:58:42 thiago: I think you have two completely different problems here Oct 04 12:12:42 bunk: could be Oct 04 12:12:47 but the JIT issue would affect webkit too Oct 04 13:20:19 troubalex, Ping? Oct 04 13:22:24 pong Oct 04 13:24:30 thiago: what's QMeeGoGraphicsSystemHelper? Oct 04 13:24:37 internal stuff Oct 04 13:24:45 it's an internal library for controlling the meego graphics system Oct 04 13:25:03 no SC or BC guarantees Oct 04 13:25:09 it might disappear in future versions Oct 04 13:25:13 ok Oct 04 13:26:22 err Oct 04 13:50:30 dneary: my fault. another try. pong. Oct 04 13:50:44 troubalex, I see you now :) Oct 04 13:51:02 troubalex, I was indeed waiting for the notification, doing something else at same time Oct 04 13:51:11 dneary: I figured Oct 04 13:51:21 dneary: I have a case of the Mondays Oct 04 13:51:26 ;) Oct 04 13:51:41 troubalex, I think andy80 (Andrea Grandi) might be around here somewhere too... Oct 04 13:52:05 coo Oct 04 13:52:10 +l Oct 04 13:52:14 troubalex, Seems not... never mind. Oct 04 13:52:16 No... No man, no. I believe you'd get your ass kicked saying somethin' like that, man. ;) Oct 04 13:52:30 troubalex, So - for the early bird events, you think you can help out? Oct 04 13:53:14 dneary: it depends. Oct 04 13:53:29 dneary: I am trying to figure out what you're actually thinking :) Oct 04 13:53:54 OK Oct 04 13:53:59 Let me help with that Oct 04 13:54:09 I suggest pestering Till/Mirko for the introduction Oct 04 13:54:28 Yeah, my thoughts too Oct 04 13:54:33 they basically pull that out of their drawers... Oct 04 13:54:45 hands-on might be more something we could do Oct 04 13:55:02 so basically, for people arriving in Dublin earlier (Saturday or Sunday) we thoughht it would be nice to have some geeky type stuff over the weekend in the hotel Oct 04 13:55:27 So we asked whether there might be some room and we're sorting that out now Oct 04 13:55:42 We're looking for 2 rooms for 20-30 people with power & network in the hotel Oct 04 13:56:11 * troubalex nods Oct 04 13:56:11 gets quite crowded in those rooms Oct 04 13:56:12 One room will be existing developers looking for help with problems, meeting up with experts in the domain (what we're calling workshops or hands-on sessions) Oct 04 13:56:22 ah! Oct 04 13:56:29 okay, now it makes more sense Oct 04 13:56:50 which domains are you looking at? Oct 04 13:56:50 One room more traditional tutorial/training sessions, with a trainer, giving an overview of some aspect of meego development, helping people to get startedd Oct 04 13:57:00 mm Oct 04 13:57:15 Right now, I'm thinking Qt, MeeGo SDK, and Linux developer tools Oct 04 13:57:36 (seem like the biggest areas where we can help people get a foot-hold) Oct 04 13:58:24 At the end of those 3 sessions, you will be (more) comfortable with git, gdb, valgrind, and have a meego sdk up & running on your laptop, and be able to get a simple sample Qt app up & running in it Oct 04 13:58:40 (if you go to one, but not the others, then they should still be useful) Oct 04 13:58:46 im trying to get dublin already on the weekend too. Oct 04 13:59:14 jani, Cool Oct 04 13:59:57 troubalex, I'm also organising a bridge building contest :) Oct 04 14:00:08 And we'll be having a geocache too Oct 04 14:00:19 dneary: okay, I'm with you. that is for the training sessions or the hands-on ones? Oct 04 14:00:27 bridge building contest??? Oct 04 14:00:31 troubalex, Yeah Oct 04 14:00:39 Out of lollipop sticks Oct 04 14:00:42 lol Oct 04 14:00:47 hello friends, Oct 04 14:00:47 could any android device be run by meego? Oct 04 14:00:56 Chill-out practical stuff to finish the day :) Oct 04 14:01:33 alexbodn, I'm aware of a project to get MeeGo handset working on a Nexus One, but I have no idea how far along it is (and I would not try it on my phone!) Oct 04 14:02:26 dneary: I was very amused about the "fun-run" Oct 04 14:02:45 dneary: are your doubts based on some closed source drivers used by android? Oct 04 14:02:47 troubalex, That's because Dirk likes to go for a jog in the morning, and this way it gets on the agenda :) Oct 04 14:03:15 alexbodn, status for all the ports available to Android based phones are basically here: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/MSMQSD Oct 04 14:03:15 dneary: how can it be fun to run 5k in the middle of the night? Oct 04 14:03:18 any how Oct 04 14:03:32 dneary: hands-on session Qt. Oct 04 14:03:33 alexbodn, You might be interested in Aaron Williamson's project to have a completely free android-based OS for the Google G1. He's nearly there (but yes, some hardware has proprietary drivers) Oct 04 14:03:45 troubalex, I'm going to go for a jog :) Oct 04 14:03:57 troubalex, That's the only time to do it, when you're at a conference Oct 04 14:04:19 dneary: exactly why I don't :-P Oct 04 14:05:06 dneary, i understand, thanks. i'll follow the link to know more :) Oct 04 14:06:47 dneary: hands-on sessions? Oct 04 14:07:07 troubalex, The hands-on sessions are more like "meet the exdpert" Oct 04 14:07:33 dneary: exactly. Oct 04 14:07:43 dneary: any candidates you have in mind? Oct 04 14:08:18 troubalex, Sessions we have in mind are: porting to MeeGo, Hands-on Qt, hackathon Oct 04 14:08:40 troubalex, These sessions are still in early days - for the tutorials we're a bit further along. Oct 04 14:09:01 dneary: okay, I think I know someone who could do hands-on Qt on Sunday afternoon Oct 04 14:09:12 We also want a UX workshop - have UX designers appraise & work on a design for existing developers Oct 04 14:09:47 troubalex, We're still working out the timetable (so far, a lot of people would like to do something on Sunday afternoon, not so many of Saturday afternoon ;) ) Oct 04 14:10:06 hehe Oct 04 14:10:35 dneary: you can try to charm Thiago into booking an earlier flight ;) Oct 04 14:11:00 dneary: otherwise we can try to find some KDE peeps for example Oct 04 14:17:36 For many of the sessions, there's a decent chance that we'll be seeing community developers be "the experts" - esp. around getting started on ARM and similar. Oct 04 14:17:49 developer tools will be a community session too. Oct 04 14:17:50 I guessed so. Oct 04 14:26:09 dneary: just keep me in the loop as you go along and we can figure something out. Oct 04 14:26:23 troubalex, OK, will do Oct 04 14:26:44 dneary: I'll introduce you to someone, maybe that helps. Oct 04 14:26:47 troubalex, I'll pencil Thiago in to help out with the hands-on Qt session Oct 04 14:27:10 dneary: he's got tons on his plate. just keep that in the back of your head Oct 04 14:27:14 troubalex, I'll let him know you volunteered him & said he should take a flight on Saturday :) Oct 04 14:27:22 hehe Oct 04 14:27:42 troubalex, It really was not nice of you to do that without asking him first ;) Oct 04 14:28:29 dneary: I did ask him :-P Oct 04 14:28:40 ah Oct 04 14:28:58 * troubalex grew up in a furnished home Oct 04 14:36:03 Hi there, does this link work for you? http://meegozone.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/MeeGo-Openness-White-Paper.pdf Oct 04 14:36:56 * Stskeeps looks Oct 04 14:37:25 Does anyone know if sponsorship for the conference is still on schedule as listed on http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Conference_2010#Time_line Oct 04 14:37:30 qgil: works for me Oct 04 14:37:40 qgil, doesn't work for me Oct 04 14:38:03 it seems to be quantic link :) Oct 04 14:39:23 I find people that make it work, some other don't. I only get "Page Not Found" Oct 04 14:39:57 can some other people try? To see the frequence of the problem Oct 04 14:40:11 Stskeeps Termana what browser OS are you using? Oct 04 14:40:13 qgil: Page Not Found Oct 04 14:40:28 qgil: ubuntu, firefox 3.6.6 Oct 04 14:40:43 Stskeeps: and can you download the pdf? Oct 04 14:40:50 qgil, I'm using Chrome 5.0.375.70 in Ubuntu 10.04 Oct 04 14:40:51 qgil: ubuntu, Chrome dev version Oct 04 14:40:52 qgil: yes Oct 04 14:41:09 ok, Fireforx downloads, Chrome doesn't since I'm using the one in MeeGo :) Oct 04 14:41:25 pattenr found - thanks! Oct 04 14:41:25 still open the possibility to teach some long session at early bird event? Oct 04 14:41:47 qgil, no Oct 04 14:42:07 qgil, I just tried in Firefox 3.6.3 - it still won't download Oct 04 14:42:21 fiferboy: we are quiteon schedule deciding about sponsorship requests BUT Angela from The Linux Foundation was busy with LinuxCon Japan last week and didn't send any emails. Today, hopefully. Oct 04 14:42:39 Thanks Termana - that is even more weird Oct 04 14:42:58 qgil: Thanks! I know I can't be the only one anxious to hear :) Oct 04 14:43:17 anyway, I'll let know the meegozone people - Stskeeps do you mind uploading the pdf somewhere at wiki.meego.com ? I got IntelĀ”'s permission Oct 04 14:44:21 ayanes: Andrea and Thomas Perl are coordinating the Early Birds Oct 04 14:44:26 ok Oct 04 14:44:51 thanks Oct 04 14:45:11 * thiago heard of the early bird today Oct 04 14:45:19 probably should take that into account when reserving flights Oct 04 14:45:53 thiago: did you read the email we sent to all the conference participants (or even all the meego.com users) last week Oct 04 14:46:08 thiago: i'LL TRY TO LAND ON sATURDAY MORNING Oct 04 14:46:11 oops Oct 04 14:46:40 thp are you around ? Oct 04 14:47:16 qgil: I don't remember reading it Oct 04 14:47:56 the "status update" ? Oct 04 14:48:15 qgil: http://wiki.meego.com/File:MeeGo-Openness-White-Paper.pdf Oct 04 14:48:17 * thiago sees it now Oct 04 14:48:41 thiago: this was the content http://conference2010.meego.com/news/meego-conference-status-update Oct 04 14:48:50 Stskeeps: thanks a lot! Oct 04 14:48:59 I haven't reserved hotel either Oct 04 14:52:01 * Chani notes that there are 10 euro hostel beds available - oh! I haven't booked yet either... Oct 04 15:08:57 ayanes: yes, around Oct 04 15:09:28 I checked the wiki about the early bird event Oct 04 15:09:37 do you have someone for the Qt workshop? Oct 04 15:10:13 for hosting it? Oct 04 15:10:31 i don't think we have. achipa said in the thread that FN is available for doing Qt-ish sessions Oct 04 15:10:41 Qt and KDAB are also available Oct 04 15:10:50 the think is the material that we have is for 2 hours 30 minutes ~ Oct 04 15:10:56 and we got 40 minutes.. Oct 04 15:11:01 so maybe we can teach also in the weekend Oct 04 15:11:11 (for libmeegotouch) Oct 04 15:11:23 we can't help with that (Qt or KDAB) Oct 04 15:13:04 ayanes: can you add information about your sessions + contact info to http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Conference_2010/Early_Bird_Events ("Ideas for the program")? Oct 04 15:13:12 sure Oct 04 15:13:49 in "Session ideas". if you add some background about yourself and contact info (i.e. user profile link) that will help later on Oct 04 15:14:49 ok Oct 04 15:14:57 thanks :) Oct 04 15:15:57 np Oct 04 15:28:20 thp done Oct 04 15:41:53 I'd really like to hear/talk/work something about/with Buteo on Sunday (early bird)... Can I suggest this on the wiki page? Oct 04 16:05:42 who's the person to talk to about the conference sponsorship ? Oct 04 16:05:58 sivang: hi :) Oct 04 16:06:29 sivang: what do you need to know? Oct 04 16:07:39 qgil: see PM Oct 04 16:23:55 hi, to everybody contacting me about sponsorship: we haven't send any emails yet - hopefullt this week (even today/tomorrow) we will start sending them Oct 04 16:24:15 http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Conference_2010#Sponsored_participants contains all the info Oct 04 16:26:23 qgil: how bad marketing wise is it if Qt applications simply don't work on MeeGo 1.1 Handset? Oct 04 16:26:49 Stskeeps: what I'm expected to answer you :) Oct 04 16:27:53 i don't know :P i'm troubled by http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7881 which really makes everyone involved look like idiots, which is hard for me Oct 04 16:29:50 uhwow Oct 04 16:31:19 yeah, there's some broken lines of communication going on here if something that critical is rejected as a blocker... Oct 04 16:31:38 agreed Oct 04 16:34:00 I wonder if this a non-issue on the Aava handset, which might give the Intel team a skewed perspective...? Oct 04 16:34:07 it happens even on handset SDK Oct 04 16:34:12 to my knowledge Oct 04 16:34:59 yikes Oct 04 16:35:16 Stskeeps: it's not isolated to middleware/kernel/qt level? such a bug surely should be experienced on netbook or othe rplatforms as well? Oct 04 16:35:24 * sivang still reads the bug report Oct 04 16:35:32 sivang: it's isolated to the mcompositor implementation and simple to do something about Oct 04 16:36:40 Stskeeps: is yours a bug against http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2959 (that appears as FIXED) ? Oct 04 16:37:34 Stskeeps: what's holding you from fixing it then? Oct 04 16:37:40 Stskeeps: I don't follow the "too risky" judgement in the rejection, it seems that basically all of the Qt development on the UX target is broken, so what further risk is there? Oct 04 16:37:50 sivang: there seems to be a weird statement that it's not a release blocker Oct 04 16:38:12 qgil: yes, i guess that's the feature area Oct 04 16:38:39 Stskeeps: http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3943 isn't this just a dupe (or yours is a dupe of that one) Oct 04 16:39:36 qgil: it's same cause, yes, rejected for 'we have no third party apps targeted for 1.1 ' Oct 04 16:41:39 someone needs to be hounded for using that as an excuse to not block 1.1 Oct 04 16:42:01 qgil: in practice it means that our developer story breaks down. i can't sit down with qt creator and make an app that will run in a meego 1.1 handset ux Oct 04 16:42:16 i see Oct 04 16:42:26 commenting on these bugs... Oct 04 16:42:31 Stskeeps: with this bug, why would any 3rd party target 1.1 ? Oct 04 16:42:50 unless i use MTF, which is actually against what is recommended to do Oct 04 16:43:06 berndhs: precisely, no one would even bother with exploratory development Oct 04 16:43:17 berndhs: the APIs are what matters Oct 04 16:44:23 Stskeeps: right, so it looks like apps based on the regular Qt API can't be verified on the UX Oct 04 16:44:39 and MTF is okay to go? Oct 04 16:45:16 i wouldn't be this passionate about if it wasn't for the fact i believe that not fixing it is a really bad mistake to make for an up-and-coming platform :/ Oct 04 16:48:01 Stskeeps: this of all the people who would like to try this demo on it.. Oct 04 16:48:18 where opengl is hot subject and we're getting asked about it daily Oct 04 16:48:23 it's all qt demos Oct 04 16:48:23 :P Oct 04 16:48:39 s/opengl/qtgl/ Oct 04 16:48:40 sivang meant: where qtgl is hot subject and we're getting asked about it daily Oct 04 16:48:42 ;) Oct 04 16:49:11 * sivang looks to vote Oct 04 16:50:05 * Stskeeps has some soup Oct 04 16:53:34 Stskeeps: what's the packaging aspects to this? or should I read on? :p Oct 04 16:54:30 hmm? Oct 04 16:55:12 Stskeeps: "Simple packaging tutorial does not work with Handset UX." Oct 04 16:55:22 Stskeeps: is this related to the compositor? Oct 04 16:55:40 sivang: yes, because it concerns the archetype meego app, a Qt app Oct 04 16:56:40 Stskeeps: wow. >.< Oct 04 16:57:32 qgil: thanks Oct 04 17:03:19 Stskeeps: and http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2959#c4 Oct 04 17:03:40 qgil, out of interest, are we still on schedule on the queue listed on the wiki page? Oct 04 17:04:12 GAN900: which queue / wiki page? (I have some to queues to choose from) :) Oct 04 17:04:13 qgil: :nod: cc'ing myself on the feature Oct 04 17:05:24 Stskeeps: Looks like 7881 is going the same way as the others. Oct 04 17:05:32 Stskeeps: Who is Hilary? Oct 04 17:06:02 qgil, the one on the page you linked earlier for the notification schedule. Oct 04 17:07:28 GAN900: we are on schedule when it comes to internal voting, but the first wave of email notifications didn't go out last week because Angela was bsuy at LinuxCon Japan - they should be sent today/tomorrow, and more byt the end of the week Oct 04 17:07:46 I hope to have only corner cases left by next week, depending on budget available etc Oct 04 17:08:19 Jaffa: let's see where this bug report goes - i'm not entirely sure of Hillary's exact role. Oct 04 17:08:40 (not listed on governance) Oct 04 17:09:29 Stskeeps: Are you sure it's "Hillary", nick is "hirally" but no name listed on http://meego.com/users/hirally Oct 04 17:10:08 Jaffa: er, Hirally.. it's one of those names I have difficulties spelling right Oct 04 17:10:39 oh, and i typoed in my response Oct 04 17:11:02 * Stskeeps sighs Oct 04 17:11:06 qgil: ooo, I don't recall seen you in IRC :) Hi Oct 04 17:11:53 Stskeeps: Could've been Hillary Rally \male), Hilary Smith (girl) who married a Mr. Rally, or s Hill?ary who likes rallying ;-) Oct 04 17:12:15 don't confuse me Oct 04 17:12:15 :P Oct 04 17:12:17 regex fell down with N900-typos. Oct 04 17:12:31 felipec: I remember seeing you many times :O) Oct 04 17:14:14 Stskeeps: http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7881#c13 Oct 04 17:17:32 qgil: what do you think about getting DSP acceleration for Theora? How useful do you think it would be to MeeGo in a scale from 1 to 10? Oct 04 17:17:51 Jaffa: hehe Oct 04 17:17:58 * felipec is thinking on ways to convince his managers to work on this Oct 04 17:18:14 felipec: you intend on doing it with dsp or their current impl? Oct 04 17:18:37 right, BMC#7881 is getting reevaluated - i hope it will come with a good outcome Oct 04 17:19:04 yay! Oct 04 17:19:11 NishanthMenon: hey man, is there a kernel repo I can use for Blaze and/or pandaboard? Oct 04 17:19:12 Stskeeps: well, I'm thinking on porting Leonora to gst-dsp... shouldn't be that hard Oct 04 17:19:24 Stskeeps: I'd hate to add it to next year's "learning from mistakes of the past and beyond" ;) Oct 04 17:19:26 felipec: :nod: that'd be cool Oct 04 17:20:31 yeap... but there's so much to do... I just found that dspbridge is broken on mainline, probably omapfb too Oct 04 17:20:43 Stskeeps, what I find shocking is how come nobody has even tried to install a qt application Oct 04 17:20:46 until yesterday Oct 04 17:20:57 lcuk: yep, this is quite alarming Oct 04 17:21:04 how did all the packaging documentation etc get run through Oct 04 17:21:29 awayfar, try the devel:kernel Oct 04 17:21:34 * sivang is off with the hope the good lords of release blockage will show mercy. Oct 04 17:21:43 awayfar, we still have to create a package for pandaboard Oct 04 17:21:59 sivang, I am not sure what good it will do Oct 04 17:22:09 not there yet.. yogeshd had issues with offline builds.. i think i resolved it today.. gotta check Oct 04 17:22:58 awayfar, posted my patches to meego-dev and meego-packaging.. /me should have send it to meego-kernel Oct 04 17:23:24 lcuk: let's see, this cannot be left like this Oct 04 17:23:26 NishanthMenon: while you're at it, could you ask that the dev kernel is published automatically to gitorious? Oct 04 17:23:39 NishanthMenon, I'll check it out, thanks. May ping you later for more info Oct 04 17:23:45 woo, pandaboard Oct 04 17:23:48 Stskeeps, i did not know there was a git tree for it Oct 04 17:23:52 thp, you were able to run gtk application without this problem ( bug#7881 ) werent you? Oct 04 17:23:53 NishanthMenon: sec Oct 04 17:24:03 or is this a *regression* Oct 04 17:24:12 NishanthMenon: well, packaging repo, not a full kernel tree Oct 04 17:24:20 NishanthMenon: http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-os-base/kernel-source Oct 04 17:24:33 * NishanthMenon looks Oct 04 17:25:21 Stskeeps, thx.. gotta look.. /me looks better after food in tummy ;) Oct 04 17:26:25 Stskeeps, do we have a testing team? Oct 04 17:26:40 lcuk: yes indeed we do :) Oct 04 17:26:42 the QA heroes Oct 04 17:26:58 lcuk: admittedly 'install a qt app' is not in their testcases and maybe it should have been Oct 04 17:27:19 well you can only build testcases once you know to look for them Oct 04 17:27:35 felipec: you are asking the wrong guy ;) Oct 04 17:28:48 Stskeeps: in fact there is not a feature/requirement defined for running a simple Qt app in Handset UX (same applies for other UXs) and this is what is missing in the first place Oct 04 17:29:10 yeah.. i hope requirements work is better in 1.2 Oct 04 17:29:13 lucky us it is obvious in the meego.com context,, even if there is no bugzilla report created :) Oct 04 17:29:24 it came up quite late in the 1.1 process, but was glad to see it Oct 04 17:31:05 hi everybody, can you tell me how i add software sources in meego (ivi) to install qt 4.7.0 or have i to compile it from the sources? (if i have to compile it by myself i need to know how to add software source for dev packages) Oct 04 17:31:12 luck: which bug tracker does bug#7881 refer to? Oct 04 17:31:22 thp: bugs.meego.com Oct 04 17:31:23 thp bugs.meego.com Oct 04 17:31:50 qgil, was that your first visit to that market (you tweeted you met an old friend there) - theres no real big farming markets near us Oct 04 17:32:28 yes, but let me re-check with the latest build Oct 04 17:33:04 cool thanks thp Oct 04 17:33:25 Stskeeps, shall find out if its a regression (which may swing any discussions) Oct 04 17:33:26 booting into 1.1.80.0.20101001.1 - could take a while :) Oct 04 17:33:34 lcuk: shouldn't :) Oct 04 17:33:53 er Oct 04 17:34:13 breaking something that used to work is different to not knowing it it was broke all along ;) Oct 04 17:35:53 lcuk: I go to http://cafarmersmkts.com/mtnview.html every other week or so - it's very good! (although sometimes expensive) Oct 04 17:36:42 lcuk, Stskeeps: no yum in 1.1.80.0.20101001.1 for n900? Oct 04 17:36:48 thp: all zypper now Oct 04 17:37:01 thp: brave to be on 1.2 branch already :) Oct 04 17:39:18 qgil, the expense cannot be helped as with most things, whats the strangest fruit you have dared to try from there? Oct 04 17:40:12 * lcuk grabs bunches of vine tomatoes when I see them Oct 04 17:41:11 yesterday I got a bunch of purple http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohlrabi Oct 04 17:44:25 lcuk: ok, so the (fullscreen) main window is white, while dialog windows are visible (without window border), and Ctrl+BkSpc makes the main window contents visible in the switcher Oct 04 17:45:03 and dialog windows do have their content visible (i.e. you can see and read what's in them) Oct 04 17:45:53 ok thp, so theres obviously something odd going on with native qt applications Oct 04 17:46:33 dare we say... gtk 1 : qt 0 :p and I wonder how much that information would change the importance of the bug Oct 04 17:47:06 lcuk: i believe it has something to do with mdecorator Oct 04 17:47:32 yeah, thanks for the retest though, I was sure *something* was able to run Oct 04 17:47:39 lcuk: try starting it with "mdecorator -remote-theme &" and kill the old one (it has '-software' in its command line) Oct 04 17:48:14 if i do that, the main window has its contents shown Oct 04 17:48:18 thp, it was just based on the bug report and remembering you had run a self build application Oct 04 17:48:28 is there any repo where i can find qt 4.7? Oct 04 17:49:29 Stskeeps, does that snippet of info help any? ie can the startup parameter for mdecorator be altered without the code change Oct 04 17:49:38 ie without a serious retest Oct 04 17:50:15 qgil, those kohlrabi's look awesome, like pumpkins with arms! what are you going to make with them? Oct 04 17:50:45 you peel them and you eat them raw. delicious! Oct 04 17:50:59 lcuk: killing the mcdecorator in general helps Oct 04 17:51:48 Stskeeps, but if its started up by default using alternative parameters, then its not going to break stuff? Oct 04 17:52:00 Stskeeps: why is MeeGo Handset UX still so slow on the N900? driver missing or something? Oct 04 17:52:14 thp: bored and got 20 minutes to spare? Oct 04 17:52:30 thp, being looked at and people are being flogged as we speak Oct 04 17:52:49 "paint faster!" Oct 04 17:53:07 Stskeeps: not bored per se, but happy to try something out. Oct 04 17:58:10 will MeeGo's package manager have DeltaRPM support? Oct 04 19:08:24 hello Oct 04 19:08:49 is there any good guide for setting up Meego 1 (with UI?) on the N900? Oct 04 19:14:54 TuxBrother, somewhere on the wiki. Oct 04 19:15:13 emmc meego n900 likely being effective Google keywords. Oct 04 19:15:31 TuxBrother, it's not particularly functional, though. Oct 04 19:18:23 thp's gone quiet. Stskeeps' experiments have blown his N900, and him, up. Oct 04 19:19:10 I am trying to debug connections issues on a corporate network, how do I run wpa_supplicant with debug output? Oct 04 19:22:12 Jaffa: no, just fascinated about the speed of the meego desktop on my n900 now :p Oct 04 19:23:07 now i just need a way to compile sources against the version of mtf shipped in the image Oct 04 19:30:26 turns out everything is available on-device and installable via zypper ;) Oct 04 19:31:18 except the fs isn't very big Oct 04 19:31:19 :P Oct 04 19:31:48 * stephg is moving to his laptop Oct 04 19:33:35 and btrfs-endio-0 is constantly using lots of CPU.. i wonder if putting out an ext3 image would make things much more faster Oct 04 19:33:47 thp: did they make that much difference? Oct 04 19:33:53 thp: share the kernel? Oct 04 19:34:49 thp: on the contrary Oct 04 19:35:04 Jaffa: Stskeeps has the link + updated packages. Oct 04 19:35:06 thp: ext3 is horrible for it cos of sample media and stuff like that being copied Oct 04 19:35:44 thp: the I/O usage may be other problems Oct 04 19:35:48 +1 for auke's suggestion Oct 04 19:36:01 the sample media one? Oct 04 19:36:02 :P Oct 04 19:36:03 thp: I thought it involved extracting something... Oct 04 19:36:08 Stskeeps: yeah Oct 04 19:36:36 it's still a problem at firststartup even at smaller sizes Oct 04 19:36:37 :P Oct 04 19:36:56 thp: i pretty much plan to see why on earth our I/O is so horrible on n900 Oct 04 19:37:07 it's worse than i would expect it to be, and I've run Mer off a 770 Oct 04 19:37:46 Stskeeps: have you tried ext3 already? Oct 04 19:37:54 thp: yes, that was how our previous images were Oct 04 19:38:03 when we switched to btrfs performance actually improved a lot Oct 04 19:38:42 could the microsd be the bottleneck? Oct 04 19:39:11 it's one, but there's a performance issue for sure as test cases return worse results than on fremantle Oct 04 19:41:41 plan to be looking closely at it for 1.2 Oct 04 19:47:50 I've been looking at faster uSD cards... apparently there's class-10 4gb ones around that are twice as fast as the normal ones we have Oct 04 19:48:04 cool Oct 04 19:48:10 what brand? Oct 04 19:48:36 kingmax Oct 04 19:48:42 never heard of em before Oct 04 19:48:44 bet they get hot. Without the power management my desk will melt Oct 04 19:49:00 auke: you could always email Phornex and ask them to to tests :) Oct 04 19:49:38 heh Oct 04 19:51:53 any comments on the splitting of the sample-media package? Oct 04 19:52:03 do it Oct 04 19:52:04 please Oct 04 19:52:55 if you're testing the different repos and not on the worlds fastest internet connection it's a pain Oct 04 19:56:48 cool - i got my mtf test app compiled on the n900. took very long, but it works now :) Oct 04 19:57:09 I have flashed Meego to my MicroSD Oct 04 19:57:16 installed the kernel Oct 04 19:57:20 now - how to boot? Oct 04 19:57:45 TuxBrother: flasher Oct 04 19:58:03 I need the flasher to boot? Oct 04 19:58:21 yeah Oct 04 19:58:43 \/path/to/flasher-3.5 -b -l -k /path/to/kernel Oct 04 19:59:15 stephg: you can start a line on irc with a slash by using another flash Oct 04 19:59:36 i.e. you type two slashes instead of one to start off Oct 04 19:59:36 * stephg is new irc, thanks Oct 04 20:05:22 I have bootmenu installed Oct 04 20:05:35 and added the menu item Oct 04 20:05:45 now it keeps saying booting meego Oct 04 20:05:50 and then it powers off Oct 04 20:05:56 yeah, don't use that one Oct 04 20:05:56 :P Oct 04 20:08:38 got it Oct 04 20:08:50 now it is a screen with unreadable text Oct 04 20:08:57 better Oct 04 20:08:57 :P Oct 04 20:08:59 only I can see it hangs Oct 04 20:09:06 is your back cover on? Oct 04 20:09:13 yes Oct 04 20:09:36 how did you dd it to th emicrosd? Oct 04 20:10:08 bzcat .bz2 | pv | sudo dd bs=4096 of=/dev/sdX Oct 04 20:10:21 well, you have me beat Oct 04 20:10:21 :P Oct 04 20:10:29 why? Oct 04 20:10:32 did you check nothing was mounted from sdX before? Oct 04 20:10:34 pv? Oct 04 20:10:41 auke: progress indicator for pipes Oct 04 20:10:47 interesting Oct 04 20:11:06 nothing was mounted before Oct 04 20:11:07 * thiago_home doesn't have pv Oct 04 20:11:51 found it in a package called "pv" Oct 04 20:11:56 * auke makes his distro install it Oct 04 20:12:39 now Oct 04 20:12:48 how can I get it to boot? Oct 04 20:12:53 the kernel hangs Oct 04 20:12:57 TuxBrother: what message does it say? Oct 04 20:12:59 auke: a custom distro? Oct 04 20:13:32 mtdoops: ready 4, 9 (no erase) Oct 04 20:13:42 that's all I can read Oct 04 20:13:45 CosmoHill: sorta, yes :) Oct 04 20:13:50 TuxBrother: anything above that? Oct 04 20:13:57 auke: same here :) Oct 04 20:14:03 Downloading source file pv-1.1.4.tar.bz2 for module pv... Oct 04 20:14:39 please append a correct root boot option or so Oct 04 20:15:16 * thiago_home benchmarks pv /dev/zero > /dev/null Oct 04 20:17:26 hi all Oct 04 20:17:50 thiago_home: how much you getting? :) Oct 04 20:18:00 3.48 GB/s Oct 04 20:18:08 15.5GB/s Oct 04 20:18:20 TuxBrother: ah, flasher -l -k /apth/to/kernel -b Oct 04 20:18:47 of course, I should try on a handset prototype instead :) Oct 04 20:19:12 * thiago_home left his proto off at the office Oct 04 20:19:16 otherwise I could just ssh in Oct 04 20:20:22 the workstation is on, though Oct 04 20:20:42 hmmm my t400 meego laptop only gets 3.1GB/s Oct 04 20:21:16 13 GB/s on the Core-i7 workstation Oct 04 20:24:07 * TuxBrother has got its MeeGo to boot Oct 04 20:24:32 congrats Oct 04 20:25:05 I must go Oct 04 20:25:11 ttyl Oct 04 20:25:31 evening wazd Oct 04 20:25:48 Stskeeps: heya :) Oct 04 20:27:18 how's the visa nightmares going? Oct 04 20:32:04 Where is wpa_supplicant invoked from in MeeGo, I need to run it with debug on and see the debug output. Oct 04 20:32:59 dbus activation Oct 04 20:36:33 or connman, isn't it? Oct 04 20:36:48 connman activates wpa_supplicant through dbus activation :) Oct 04 20:36:59 i learnt this the hard way Oct 04 20:37:58 if it's dbus activation, then you can start it manually Oct 04 20:38:03 provided it registers in dbus Oct 04 21:04:53 handset ux on n900 with Stskeeps' drivers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWtMLs3j09U Oct 04 21:35:09 i think there is also a new internal supplicant in connman Oct 04 21:35:24 * thiago_home likes wpa_cli Oct 04 21:49:34 /join #nm Oct 04 21:50:48 no thanks Oct 04 23:47:27 cyas Oct 05 01:24:33 is there a good tutorial out there for meego and kickstart scripts? Oct 05 02:31:47 hey, odd ball question .... does anyone think/know that Nokia will launch a MeeGo handset sporting something similar to the e73 form factor? Oct 05 02:32:20 the people who know can't say Oct 05 02:32:39 and the people who say 'yes' or 'no' are probably not the people who know ;) Oct 05 02:32:47 johnx: yeah, I figured as much Oct 05 02:33:20 That said, there are rumored shots of an N9 that looks an awful lot like the N8 Oct 05 02:33:26 johnx: I kinda wish they'd leak a little info though because I'm either going to wait for a MeeGo handset in that form factor or I'm likely to buy a blackberry ... so if the answer is yes then they've got a customer :) Oct 05 02:33:53 I'd guess they'll transition the E series to Meego at some point, but that might not be soon at all ... Oct 05 02:34:07 Also: gah, a blackberry? At least get something android ... Oct 05 02:34:15 I've got a Droid now and I'm tired of the touch screen craze and I want something that actually sports a battery life Oct 05 02:35:20 i've had a G1, a myTouch3G and a Nexus One... then i jumped ship to Verizon and now I have a Droid ... *none* of them can get more than a day of heavy usage and its just sad at this point .... blackberry is just stomping them in battery life and its not like they're doing anything magical under the hood Oct 05 02:35:42 they're doing less. that's what Oct 05 02:35:59 I don't follow Oct 05 02:36:14 the less flexible the OS, the easier it is to get good battery life Oct 05 02:36:26 ah Oct 05 02:36:29 fair enough Oct 05 02:36:51 more processing on the server, more stringent task stopping while in 'sleep' mode Oct 05 02:36:58 oh well .... I suppose I'll hold on to my Droid and see what happens Oct 05 02:37:43 my samsung dumbphone lasted for days even with some calls thrown in. it would probably idle even longer Oct 05 02:39:11 johnx: yeah, my old motorola dumbphone lasted forever ... and I get the whole OS differences argument, but I've messed with my boss' Blackberry Bold 89xx and it can do everything I do on my Droid but do it faster and with longer battery life .... now I know the phone can't do more than my Droid, but it handles all the tasks I need .... Oct 05 02:39:57 multiple email accounts and calendar sync, GPS, bluetooth, twitter, and a ssh client Oct 05 02:40:04 oh and facebook Oct 05 02:40:17 then go for it. I've just run into a lot of pain with blackberries, mostly having to do with how much they rely on RIM's servers for processing and services Oct 05 02:40:21 I really think the big difference is the touchscreen vs. no touchscreen Oct 05 02:40:36 yeah, that's cause for concern :/ Oct 05 02:40:48 the touchscreen is not the issue :) Oct 05 02:40:55 I'll likely hold out to see what MeeGo rolls out with, I really like the idea of real GNU/Linux in my pocket Oct 05 02:40:58 it's just that more flexible OSes demand more flexible input Oct 05 02:41:50 for example, years ago at work we had a whole bunch of awful little non-touchscreen winmo phones complete with horrible battery life Oct 05 02:42:21 anyways, at some point, we'll probably hit a (possibly temporary) plateau of 'fast enough' and end up with performance staying the same for a couple 'cycles' and battery life going back up Oct 05 02:42:29 we saw that with netbooks recently Oct 05 02:42:49 right, but the Blackberry Storm2 has horrible battery life while all Blackberry devices with no touchscreen have great battery life ... that's kinda my metric of comparison Oct 05 02:43:18 yeah, since the Atom N450's we haven't really seen anything new in the netbook space Oct 05 02:43:23 but the storm2 has a different CPU I thought Oct 05 02:43:27 and that's been ... almost a year now hasn't it? Oct 05 02:43:36 johnx: oh does it? that I didn't know ... would make sense though Oct 05 02:43:41 didn't the storm2 have a different OS compared to the other blackberries as well? Oct 05 02:43:50 I didn't think so Oct 05 02:44:44 also, the big superbright screens are another huge consumer of battery Oct 05 02:45:05 so I guess that kinda goes with 'touchscreen' but it's not the 'touch' aspect, but the big-and-bright aspect Oct 05 02:45:30 yeah, that is true ... the average blackberry screen is roughly half the size of the average touch screen phone's screen Oct 05 02:46:01 and probably designed for sunlight readability as opposed to looking super-saturated and bright in a keynote speech :> Oct 05 02:46:31 of course, through all this speculation and discussion I know for a fact I'm going to buy whatever the first MeeGo device that's available for Verizon is anyways Oct 05 02:46:41 :) Oct 05 02:46:48 meanwhile, I may switch carriers to get one Oct 05 02:47:47 I can't afford to switch carriers ... and I've been with everyone else, I made my way to Verizon for a reason .... T-Mobile's coverage is a joke (I live in a very small college town ... grad school and what not) and AT&T and I haven't gotten along Oct 05 02:48:20 and Sprint's network just piggy backs off Verizon's network in most of my area so I might as well just give Verizon my money Oct 05 02:48:28 I'd like to stay away from at&t in this area...and t-mo coverage is good here and there 3G network is underused :) Oct 05 02:48:43 ah, well that's nice Oct 05 02:48:46 plus, I have an N900, so that works out Oct 05 02:48:56 T-Mobile doesn't even have 3G in my area Oct 05 02:49:03 and their EDGE is sketchy at best Oct 05 02:49:31 for a while I could barely make calls in one side of my apartment, but they appear to have fixed that Oct 05 02:50:10 well that's good Oct 05 02:51:14 I'm trying to think of which carrier I see the first MeeGo device launching on in the states... and I really think it will be either AT&T or T-Mobile purely because GSM is a more globally used technology Oct 05 02:51:16 actually, I really like the portrait keyboard form factor. I wish Nokia would do one with a proper OS :) Oct 05 02:51:28 yeah, probably AT&T or t-mo Oct 05 02:51:49 the N900 is on t-mo, but it was a bit more hacker oriented than the first meego device will be Oct 05 02:52:20 yeah, I've seen the N900s ... few people had them at Texas Linux Fest 2010 ... slick device, too bad it wasn't more widely marketed Oct 05 02:52:22 I want it to be on t-mo, but I have a sinking feeling it will be on at&t Oct 05 02:52:54 I dunno though ... AT&T seems a bit too busy kissing Apple's ass, I'm actually surprised they even have a Galaxy S device Oct 05 02:53:13 samsung is hell bent on getting their devices out there and good for them Oct 05 02:53:54 it looks like they directly turned down carrier exclusivity contracts (hard to think that no carrier offered them one) Oct 05 02:54:18 agreed, I'm also really happy to see that they released all the source code ... makes things easier for the Android ROM bakers like CyanogenMod (my personal favorite) Oct 05 02:54:46 someone had to try and sign them exclusively, the device is really impressive Oct 05 02:55:15 highly looking forward to the galaxy tab :) Oct 05 02:55:29 that would be one awesome piece of kit to run meego on Oct 05 02:56:40 heh Oct 05 02:57:13 I just really hope MeeGo succeeds and doesn't become as niche as meamo is/was Oct 05 02:57:27 maemo* Oct 05 02:57:40 I'm hoping for good things Oct 05 02:57:43 but I have a lot of bias :) Oct 05 02:58:06 at this point, I think it has a much better chance of getting ported around to other devices than maemo ever did Oct 05 02:58:34 I agree Oct 05 02:59:08 not to mention that since Intel is on board this go around, I could see them rolling out some really impressive devices based on next-gen Atom setups **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Oct 05 02:59:57 2010