**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Oct 15 02:59:57 2010 Oct 15 03:33:31 hi guys Oct 15 03:34:12 I'm new to meego, I tried moblin about one year ago, but not on my netbook Oct 15 03:34:48 then I knew about meego and here I am trying it out Oct 15 03:35:02 however, I have a main concern about it Oct 15 03:35:34 for what I can see at plain sight this is moblin, still GTK2 based UI Oct 15 03:36:05 but, meego is promoted by nokia who owns Qt now Oct 15 03:36:38 and I am wondering if the UI is going to change to Qt or will continue to use GTK2 Oct 15 03:36:56 does anyone know something about this? Oct 15 03:51:27 k4nd4lf: qt for sure. Oct 15 03:51:39 ehhh left after a question..typical :) Oct 15 04:45:24 http://wiki.meego.com/Image_Creation#Installation -> # cat < /etc/yum.repos.d/meego-tools.repo -> seems to be a typo ? Oct 15 04:53:16 come join us at #hackers or ##itt-tech . if you dare that is..... Oct 15 05:27:55 morning Oct 15 05:28:42 morn Oct 15 05:31:08 morning Oct 15 05:31:58 *yawn* Oct 15 05:53:20 it's funny that I quite rarely actually stare on this channel, but it's really packed with familiar people :P Oct 15 05:55:29 so the familiar void stares back at you? Oct 15 05:55:58 something like that Oct 15 06:50:28 hi Oct 15 06:51:03 i have a question to meego Oct 15 06:51:39 do you think that it will be competitive to android and apple ios Oct 15 06:51:46 and how long will it take Oct 15 06:51:48 ?? Oct 15 06:54:52 plaa_: in my opinion? i think it will be better than either iOS or Android, for my use cases. as for how long it will take, that I don't know. Hopefully not too long ;-) Of course, both questions you ask are entirely subjective. Oct 15 06:55:44 chriadam: me also agree !!! bcoz there is no differentation Oct 15 06:55:54 any one can use android and make device Oct 15 06:56:04 do you know about using ovi apps? and how many apps are alive yet? Oct 15 06:57:19 second question is about meego apps Oct 15 06:58:59 plaa_: I don't know any numbers, sorry (how many etc). Oct 15 06:59:26 are u a developer? Oct 15 07:03:57 there will be a lot of devices with MeeGo shipping next year Oct 15 07:04:01 a couple this year Oct 15 07:04:33 apps? Well, any Linux app is an app for MeeGo, unlike for Android. Though most of those applications aren't suitable for all form factors, of course. Oct 15 07:04:42 is the development difficult? Oct 15 07:04:58 no Oct 15 07:05:01 easiest of all Oct 15 07:05:06 (subjective opinion, of course) Oct 15 07:06:00 im studying computer science in germany and im interested in meego and meego development. Oct 15 07:06:16 you can join in and learn all about it Oct 15 07:06:30 try doing that for Android -- it's a fairly closed development of the OS itself Oct 15 07:07:29 for a student who is learning how an OS is developed and put together, MeeGo should be your target Oct 15 07:07:44 for app development, you can choose Oct 15 07:08:00 or not choose and go for all of them :-) Oct 15 07:10:01 i´ll inform myself about it. we´ll see. thx Oct 15 08:25:16 btw, everything is easy for thiago_home :P Oct 15 08:25:32 hi, is there any EeePC T101MT here ? Oct 15 08:32:07 hi, yes I have one.. or two Oct 15 08:32:26 ljp, touchscreen works on meego ? Oct 15 08:32:34 wifi ? Oct 15 08:32:58 yes and yes Oct 15 08:33:40 nice last but not least vide 720p or youtube hd ? i think i dream :) Oct 15 08:34:04 a few problems like the touchscreen stops working after resume, and the network connections keep dropping Oct 15 08:34:04 dunno, havent tried Oct 15 08:34:16 hang on one moment Oct 15 08:34:25 :) Oct 15 08:42:05 720p youtube is not very good. 360p is Oct 15 08:43:10 ljp, ok that s not surprise me Oct 15 08:43:53 I do my meego development on it Oct 15 08:44:16 ljp, maybe you now anothet (better) netbook than t101 ? Oct 15 08:44:36 i think price/qualité is good Oct 15 08:44:46 qualité/quality Oct 15 08:45:21 ya, the t101 is good. it has a ts, which I needed Oct 15 08:47:29 ljp, i have lost all my works since day one of meego, my old netbbok is broken be care !! Oct 15 08:48:03 6months :( Oct 15 08:49:36 my stuff is all in git Oct 15 08:49:40 ljp, is t101 noisy ? Oct 15 08:49:59 ljp, you are not silly like me Oct 15 08:50:36 not especially noisy, there is fan / hdd noise Oct 15 08:50:48 i need obs account .... Oct 15 08:50:53 niala_sad: i have had more than one time loosing stuff :) Oct 15 08:53:33 ljp, if hd is to noisy i ll put an ssd. it is possible ? Oct 15 08:54:17 probably, but there's no 300 gb ssd :) Oct 15 08:56:06 yes :) but i need a solid pc to travell , even last ssd is broken. i m not a lucky guy. can btrf broken an ssd ? Oct 15 09:03:19 I dont know much about btrf Oct 15 09:03:31 ljp, wich version of meego do you use? trunk? 1.1 ? netbook ? Oct 15 09:03:43 ljp, thx for all your responses Oct 15 09:03:46 btrfs? Oct 15 09:04:15 1.1.80 Oct 15 09:04:44 thiago, yes yesterday meego says me error reading ssd and after nothing Oct 15 09:04:55 and you're sure it's not your SSD? Oct 15 09:05:05 i think is my ssd Oct 15 09:05:17 if it is dying, there's nothing the fs can help you with Oct 15 09:05:31 btrfs was just a question, because is a new system Oct 15 09:06:06 thiago, what is the advantage of btrfs ? Oct 15 09:06:08 * thiago has an SSD with btrfs and no problems Oct 15 09:06:10 well, many Oct 15 09:06:14 I got meego running with ssd in my netbook so that should not be a generic problem Oct 15 09:07:02 vilvo, yes i think i have just no luck, meego works on my ssd since day one to yesterday Oct 15 09:10:55 i need an obs account, to save me from losing my rpm next time Oct 15 09:21:25 ntfs-3g nmap amsn mytheme shortcuts qt 4.7 libmeegotouch all codecs ..... pfff 2days ... Oct 15 09:23:18 thiago, if I install meego from preview ( i mean from .ks file)I have qt 4.7 and libmeegotouch working ? Oct 15 09:23:56 or anybody else Oct 15 09:24:00 of course Oct 15 09:36:50 niala_sad: oh, did I mention the camera is upside down :) Oct 15 09:37:14 ljp, no driver? Oct 15 09:37:53 niala_sad: i have a guide so you can set up your own obs Oct 15 09:37:54 or, rather, the image the camera takes... known issue not just meego, but for t101-mt and linux Oct 15 09:37:54 ya, there is a fix apparently Oct 15 09:40:34 ljp, i read that http://jeffhoogland.blogspot.com/2010/07/howto-ubuntu-linux-on-t101mt.html Oct 15 10:01:54 Stskeeps, well my own obs, sure i can do my own linux to and my own community alone with one guy (joke) where is you guide please? Oct 15 10:02:51 niala_sad: http://wiki.meego.com/User:Stskeeps/10_easy_steps_to_a_local_OBS Oct 15 10:03:31 thx Oct 15 10:06:11 but if my hd fail my obs fail to :) Oct 15 10:07:00 if my hd don't fail i don't need external save Oct 15 10:09:40 I'll invest in a hammer and chisel is more sure than a computer to save text :) Oct 15 10:11:17 backup Oct 15 10:11:18 :P Oct 15 10:12:23 nothing to say for defend me :) Oct 15 11:00:28 Hi All Oct 15 11:01:01 I saw few post on internet in people were bashing about bringing mono to meego Oct 15 11:01:12 I dont know what is the problem of these people Oct 15 11:01:36 Is there anyone who think same... i.e. mono should not be there on meego? Oct 15 11:08:16 what is 'mono' ? Oct 15 11:09:35 niala_sad, http://mono-project.com/ Oct 15 11:10:00 well, he's gone Oct 15 11:10:10 didn't even want an answer Oct 15 11:15:07 it s a novel product Oct 15 11:16:22 some people have no patients Oct 15 11:16:28 no qt in http://mono-project.com/Plans Oct 15 11:17:18 i have no opinion Oct 15 11:17:21 :) Oct 15 11:19:57 CosmoHill: patients? I sure hope they don't Oct 15 11:20:26 * CosmoHill may have mean a similar sounding word Oct 15 11:20:42 * Myrtti puts a little dot on her diary Oct 15 11:21:19 remember mme how you make *note in xchat ? Oct 15 11:22:06 /me Oct 15 11:22:45 /you Oct 15 11:22:58 ;) Oct 15 11:23:09 * niala_sad me for you end you form. tea for two Oct 15 11:23:17 thx Oct 15 11:23:30 /nick niala_happy Oct 15 11:23:31 ? Oct 15 11:23:38 ^.^ Oct 15 11:24:16 after when i buy a asust101 or/and if i can change my ssd Oct 15 11:24:46 but i have hope http://www.blogeee.net/2008/11/la-carte-mere-du-eeepc-s101/ Oct 15 11:25:14 i must be patient Oct 15 11:25:42 damn that's a huge battery compartment Oct 15 11:26:05 je crois pas que tu peux echanger la ssd ... Oct 15 11:26:07 CosmoHill: indeed Oct 15 11:26:47 th0br0, ah euh bonjour, your sure? Oct 15 11:27:04 it's a good question actually... given that he talks about minipcie... Oct 15 11:27:28 IIRC the Dell Mini 9s used a mini PCI-E SSD card Oct 15 11:27:29 oh those chips are just some mlcs Oct 15 11:27:38 i thought they were the ssd ;) but yeah, seems like you can. Oct 15 11:28:09 may be difficult to find the good ssd Oct 15 11:28:13 yea Oct 15 11:28:40 i can only find some 32gb max Oct 15 11:28:52 correct that, also some 128gb Oct 15 11:29:14 but it really seems as if those MLC are thessd Oct 15 11:29:24 size is not very important for me i live with 16 :) Oct 15 11:29:29 hehe :) Oct 15 11:29:49 uhm Oct 15 11:29:58 th0br0, you are french ? Oct 15 11:30:11 german, but i'm pretty much fluent in french, too Oct 15 11:30:24 wunderbach Oct 15 11:30:31 ;) Oct 15 11:30:35 i m french Oct 15 11:30:47 yeah. mh, i found some 32gb ssd for the s101 on the german amazon Oct 15 11:30:54 even some 64gb Oct 15 11:31:25 * CosmoHill is English (and therefore sucks at all other languages) Oct 15 11:31:29 can you give the link Oct 15 11:31:39 1 sec Oct 15 11:32:08 http://www.supertalent.com/products/ssd_detail.php?type=SATA%20Mini%20PCIe Oct 15 11:32:11 that's the one you want Oct 15 11:32:21 supertalent works Oct 15 11:32:40 you just have to find some french store :) Oct 15 11:33:11 http://www.amazon.de/Super-Talent-miniPCIe-Speicherkarte-Lesen/dp/B0026RWG5W or order in the german amazon store ;) http://www.amazon.de/Super-Talent-miniPCIe-Speicherkarte-Lesen/dp/B0026RWG5W Oct 15 11:33:16 by plane or ship or cycle i don't care :) Oct 15 11:33:22 CosmoHill: I just love it when I can put those little dots on my diary Oct 15 11:33:38 hehe Oct 15 11:34:33 niala_sad: http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/64GB-SuperTalent-FPM64GHAE-Mini-PCIe-(PATA)-MLC-Internal-(SSD)-For-Asus-Eee-PC Oct 15 11:34:37 that page's in english at least :) Oct 15 11:34:49 I'd recommend Scan Computers :) Oct 15 11:34:49 and it's cheaper than the offero n amazon.de Oct 15 11:35:29 aww nah that one's bad. Oct 15 11:35:35 not for the s101 :( Oct 15 11:35:42 it's also pre-order Oct 15 11:35:47 not sur for s101 Oct 15 11:36:05 http://www.google.de/products?q=fpm64grse&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=fr&tab=wf Oct 15 11:36:59 seems sorta difficult to find one in france or in the uk Oct 15 11:37:11 i think http://www.amazon.fr/Super-Talent-miniPCIe-Disque-Allemagne/dp/B001O9WLTY/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1287142418&sr=8-1-fkmr0 Oct 15 11:37:38 niala_sad: that's GHAE you want GRSE Oct 15 11:38:53 my Eee's HD was a surface mount component soldered directly on the motherboard. Well, 4 components actually. Then one died... Oct 15 11:39:13 kraiskil: sucks :S Oct 15 11:39:22 the s101 seems to have some card mounted using screws Oct 15 11:39:28 Would make a nice MeeGo test computer, if only it didn't have a Celeron :D Oct 15 11:39:35 ^ Oct 15 11:39:38 (without SSSEEE3) Oct 15 11:40:02 niala_sad: http://www.amazon.com/Super-Talent-PCI-E-SATA2-FPM32GRSE/dp/B0028Y4FMA Oct 15 11:40:17 the problem with that are the tariffs :( Oct 15 11:40:38 why not go to the maker's website and look for distribution? Oct 15 11:41:38 CosmoHill: there is no french distributor at all, and all uk ones don't offer the ones he needs. only amazon.de / com Oct 15 11:41:54 it's all in euros right? Oct 15 11:42:04 huh? Oct 15 11:42:31 I mean France and Germany both use Euros Oct 15 11:42:40 yeah. Oct 15 11:42:50 as long as he gets it from within the eu there are no tariffs Oct 15 11:44:33 i think is no problems with amazon.de germany is at 6km :) Oct 15 11:44:49 hehe yeah, i was just concerned regarding the language Oct 15 11:45:04 niala_sad: if you want a 32gb one http://www.amazon.de/Super-Talent-miniPCIe-Speicherkarte-Lesen/dp/B0026RWG5W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1287142843&sr=8-1 is the way to go Oct 15 11:45:38 oh hm Oct 15 11:46:26 I was looking for something and the nearest shop that sold it and spoke English was in Belgium :/ Oct 15 11:46:40 just make sure to get it from that drucken-total reseller not the memory king one... the latter doesn't list shipping costs within the eu (on their page, the product costs 10€ less but you have to add 13€ shipping for france) Oct 15 11:46:44 hehe CosmoHill Oct 15 11:49:41 how many screw will I lost Oct 15 11:50:23 huh? Oct 15 11:50:54 based off that blogpost (see the last image) we're talking 2 screws Oct 15 11:51:05 http://www.flickr.com/photos/13815526@N02/3002515312/ Oct 15 11:53:45 * CosmoHill has done about 1300 words in an hour :D Oct 15 11:56:43 but to acces on it i must disassemble all the netbook Oct 15 12:00:47 that's true Oct 15 12:01:20 any fallout fans here? http://designed.tauriini.fi/vault4b/ Oct 15 12:01:39 hrhr Oct 15 12:02:22 someone clearly had a lot of time :D Oct 15 12:02:40 too much Oct 15 12:02:46 ^^ Oct 15 12:03:36 this is some frustrating qt creator bug ... Oct 15 12:03:59 oh it isn't Oct 15 12:37:30 Hi Oct 15 12:37:48 afternoon Oct 15 12:41:59 Stskeeps, I was hoping to find Thomas Frydrych (author of hildon-desktop) here... Oct 15 12:42:17 hmm, i think the collabora crowd would be a good start Oct 15 12:42:28 Stskeeps, Because I can't find anything which might parse .desktop files in hildon-desktop or libhildondesktop Oct 15 12:42:34 really? Oct 15 12:43:28 I'm going on the web interface for now, when I've finished cloning I'll do a recursive string search Oct 15 12:44:13 marcoil or marnanel might know? Oct 15 12:44:48 Robot101, Thanks for the tip Oct 15 12:45:03 Robot101, Is Thomas working for ye now? I thought he was still in Intel Oct 15 12:45:24 still? he's never been... Oct 15 12:46:02 dneary_: it's in hildon-desktop; I can find you a line reference if you like Oct 15 12:46:09 dneary_: Thomas = me? I've never worked for Intel Oct 15 12:46:24 thinking of Thomas Wood (thos)? Oct 15 12:47:26 marnanel, A file or function name would be fine. Thanks! Oct 15 12:47:36 dneary_: okay, looking now Oct 15 12:48:48 Robot101, No, definitely Frydrych Oct 15 12:48:56 But maybe I'm getting confused Oct 15 12:49:58 dneary_: ah, he's not marnanel either - but yes, he's at Intel Oct 15 12:50:37 dneary_: the code to parse .desktop files is in src/launcher/hd-launcher-app.c, function hd_launcher_app_parse_keyfile() Oct 15 12:59:02 marnanel, Thanks Oct 15 12:59:08 dneary_: any time Oct 15 12:59:23 marnanel, I would never have found that hunting through gitorious :) Oct 15 12:59:48 I would have found it sooner six months ago, but my memory was a little rusty Oct 15 13:01:23 marnanel, Does that also handle things like links & shortcuts, or only Type = Application? Oct 15 13:01:57 IIRC it handles links and shortcuts as well, but I could be wrong. I can check if you like Oct 15 13:10:44 marnanel, I'm reading the code... seems like there are some thing that aren't defined either in hd-launcher-app.c or in any of the headers it includes... I guess I should run ctags on it & find out where the definition is Oct 15 13:10:51 marnanel, HD_DESKTOP_ENTRY_GROUP for example Oct 15 13:11:29 hm, odd. I don't remember where that's defined. Maybe it's passed in by autotools or something like that? Oct 15 13:12:02 I'll figure it out when this git clone is done :) It's slow! Oct 15 13:13:08 marnanel, Also, I guess that the standard freedesktop.org fields are parsed elsewhere (and perhaps custom groups also?) Oct 15 13:13:43 I think so, yes. I think that part only does as much as it needs Oct 15 13:38:13 Stskeeps: So, from the end user point of view will there be a boot-time UI option to select between Maemo and Meego? Oct 15 13:38:36 Stskeeps: Or is it still open-device-remove-sd-card-insert-new-sd-card-close-power-on? Oct 15 13:39:20 RST38h: latter Oct 15 13:39:33 if there's no sd, boots up maemo Oct 15 13:40:41 Stskeeps: eh... Oct 15 13:40:54 Stskeeps: and if there is an sd card, there will be no choice it just boots from sd card (assuming it is bootable)? Oct 15 13:41:16 Milhouse: right, that's current uboot setup. howeeever. it is configurable. Oct 15 13:41:27 a simple boot UI would be nice. :) Oct 15 13:41:36 it has a console with keypad.. ;p Oct 15 13:41:39 just offer the UI if the SD is present and bootable? Oct 15 13:42:30 could happen i guess Oct 15 13:42:34 but let's see where it goes Oct 15 13:42:38 it's not really a PR1.3 feature Oct 15 13:42:52 personally speaking, i don't want to have to remove the SD card (with MeeGo) in order to boot Maemo - I'm sure I'll end up snapping the back cover Oct 15 13:43:52 Stskeeps: I kinda suspect that 99% of lemmings and 85% of the rest think that "Meego boot support in PR1.3" implies this UI feature =) Oct 15 13:44:02 yes.. Oct 15 13:44:23 right now I dd MeeGo on to the SD card while it is mounted in the n900 - worked everytime so far. in which case booting meego via the temporary kernel is a better option than any automatic dual boot policy. Oct 15 13:44:45 Milhouse: for some reason some people don't have pcs for demo purposes Oct 15 13:44:57 RST38h: It did read that way (not sure what category I fall into) Oct 15 13:46:15 Stskeeps: No problem with that, but surely everyone can be accomodated Oct 15 13:46:24 :nod: Oct 15 13:47:17 even if there's no ui and we hold down a button on the keypad a bit like we do with "U" for usb/flashing mode. Oct 15 13:47:40 M to boot MeeGo, no button held and it boots Maemo... :) Oct 15 13:47:52 hehe Oct 15 14:12:17 does anyone have a WeTab? Oct 15 14:14:09 not that I do, but why are you asking? Oct 15 14:25:42 Myrtti, i'd like to know if libcrystalhd is included Oct 15 14:25:50 and if so where can i find the src.rpm Oct 15 14:26:03 cause the 3G version has a broadcom 70015 Oct 15 14:26:45 robtaylor: have you run the MeeGo compatibility test against http://bit.ly/biUeaL ? :) Oct 15 14:38:18 sob sob Chrome in MeeGo Netbook can't digest http://paper.li/tag/meego - really: has someone packaged Firefox for MeeGo? Oct 15 14:38:53 used to be packaged Oct 15 14:40:54 ok, I reckon that I haven't gone through installation of new repos yet... Maybe it's time to install my first rpm ever ;) Oct 15 14:49:32 Any event where MeeGo should be active missing at http://wiki.meego.com/Events#Events_proposed ? We are planning the events to focus on 2011 Oct 15 14:58:49 qgil: hehe :) Oct 15 14:59:27 qgil: I promise to bring you one to the conference, don't think it'll fit an n900 though.. Oct 15 14:59:57 robtaylor: maybe sliding out the kb... Oct 15 15:00:47 qgil: CES Oct 15 15:01:07 and the LinuxCons Oct 15 15:01:14 qgil: heh :) Oct 15 15:01:34 thiago: Angela promised to fill in the Linux Foundation events - CES, good point Oct 15 15:01:38 qgil: have you settled well over state-side now? Oct 15 15:01:57 there's obviously Dev Days 2011, but since the 2010 isn't over yet, it's a bit too soon :-) Oct 15 15:02:27 robtaylor: mostly yes, the last bureaucratic step I'm aware of is the driving exam to get a local driving license.................................................................. Oct 15 15:02:42 qgil, easy. Oct 15 15:02:48 qgil: btw, knut was making the 2011 plans today too. You should touch base with him for Nokia sponsorships. Oct 15 15:03:10 I'm trying to convince him to take the LF "all-you-can-eat" sponsorship Oct 15 15:03:26 GAN900: I guess, since I have been driving for some many years - but just the idea of having to do again a driving test bores me Oct 15 15:03:47 qgil: good luck! Oct 15 15:03:56 thiago: who is "him"? Oct 15 15:04:01 qgil: knut yrvin Oct 15 15:04:36 thiago: you mean sponsoring with a Qt, a MeeGo or a Nokia logo? :) Oct 15 15:05:01 qgil: well, that's something that you and he can discuss together Oct 15 15:05:23 qgil: I just think we need a presence there, regardless of which logo is shown :-) Oct 15 15:05:26 marnanel, I found that definition, by the way Oct 15 15:05:33 thiago: yep - now I'm looking exclusively for MeeGo activities Oct 15 15:05:36 oh, cool Oct 15 15:06:06 qgil: who coordinates MeeGo Computers @ Nokia presence in events? Oct 15 15:06:13 qgil: is that Forum Nokia? Oct 15 15:06:21 or corporate comms? Oct 15 15:06:21 marnanel, In hd-launcher-item.h (included from hd-launcher-app.h, which is included in hd-launcher-app.c) Oct 15 15:06:37 thiago: MeeGo Computers ;) Peter Schneider coordinates Oct 15 15:06:41 * marnanel nods Oct 15 15:06:56 qgil, Do you have any idea where the meego event budget is going to come from, and how much it'll be? Oct 15 15:07:29 dneary: how much and even where from will depend on the events we target Oct 15 15:07:41 qgil, I ask, because it'll affect which events you sponsor & attend, and also how big a presence (in the case of a stand) you want to have Oct 15 15:07:49 dneary: more than a generic budget for the year a % of the budget might come from specific actions around a specific event Oct 15 15:07:54 qgil: CES activities I know are ongoing already. Chuck Piercey (RWC) to contact. We're obviously bringing MeeGo demos :-) Oct 15 15:08:04 qgil, It's an unusual way to proceed, starting from events :) Oct 15 15:08:07 dneary: but like with other things nowadays, I assume the critical mass will be covered by Intel/Nokia Oct 15 15:08:37 qgil, I'm used to going the other way - "OK, we have $100K event marketing budget, what do we do with it?" Oct 15 15:08:39 dneary: not unusual for an organization without own budget and own employees or own cost centers, if you think of it Oct 15 15:08:39 if everyone buys a wetab, maybe 4tiitoo can also sponsor the events :-) Oct 15 15:09:00 And then you decide whether to do a big splash in 1 or 2 key events, or a lower-key presence in a larger number Oct 15 15:09:07 dneary: that approach is feasible when you have one cost center and one budget approver - the MeeGo project is more decentralized than that Oct 15 15:09:41 qgil, The first challenge then is to get budget Oct 15 15:09:49 also the MeeGo project and stakeholders in October 2010 probably will be different enough in, say June 2011 Oct 15 15:09:53 And the budget approval process will come with the budget Oct 15 15:10:12 dneary: trust me: no. The first challenge is the MeeGo project deciding what do we aim for Oct 15 15:10:23 No point setting up a distributed budget approval process with no money... Oct 15 15:10:51 if you go event by event you will see that the budget required is almost peanuts when you split costs by Nokia, Intel and whoever else wants to pull Oct 15 15:10:59 qgil: there's also FISL in Southern Brazil, which is a huge event (4000+ people) Oct 15 15:11:05 qgil, it's CA, what do you expect but inane bureaucracy. :P Oct 15 15:11:13 OK - I'll leave you to it, then. Oct 15 15:11:18 Qt has been represented there for 3 years in a row Oct 15 15:11:21 dneary: trust me again: I sit close to the budget decision-makers and the money is there Oct 15 15:11:43 qgil, Who should Stormy & Claudia talk to about the Desktop Summit & MeeGo then, you? Oct 15 15:11:57 (perhaps this is already happening) Oct 15 15:12:01 Hi Dawn Oct 15 15:12:15 dneary: a decision the MeeGo project and the MeeGo related companies need to take is whether we really want MeeGo (logo) as sponsor Oct 15 15:12:22 hey dneary Oct 15 15:12:46 Getting a logo is one of the highest costs and I wonder if we really need that Oct 15 15:12:53 qgil, You think it's more valuable to have Novell, Intel, Nokia, GENIVI as individual sponsors? Oct 15 15:13:20 getting MeeGo speakers, booth, merchandising is more valuable, I think Oct 15 15:13:26 dneary: making the list allows at least the companies to know who to contact Oct 15 15:13:45 the companies will decide anyway whether to sponsor or not, the fact of having a meeGo logo doesn't add or take from having a, say, Nokia logo Oct 15 15:13:59 both Intel and Nokia will be at CES, for example. If they're going to talk about MeeGo, they should pool together and bring complementing demos. Oct 15 15:14:41 no point in everyone bringing wetabs Oct 15 15:14:47 CES is a good example: sponsoring at that conference is hugely expensive - however if we would be organized on time we could probably get speaker, even physical presence Oct 15 15:14:50 qgil, It seems very high value to me to have MeeGo align with the desktop summit, given how much cross-over there is Oct 15 15:15:02 dneary: definitely Oct 15 15:15:16 the desktop summit definitely, meego is the embodiment of cooperation there Oct 15 15:15:20 qgil, I would also suggest going in that direction for OSiM World. MeeGo has a very low-key presence this year Oct 15 15:15:41 OSiM has very low-key presence in the industry too, if you ask me Oct 15 15:15:47 (by "that direction" I mean what you said, not what I said) Oct 15 15:15:53 As in, get a speaker Oct 15 15:15:54 the LF events, LF will take care. MeeGo is, after all, an LF project :-) Oct 15 15:16:11 thiago, LF still needs money to run events :) Oct 15 15:16:47 http://events.linuxfoundation.org/_sponsorship/lf_2011_sponsorship.pdf Oct 15 15:16:48 dneary: so you see, defining events helps knowing better abouit deadlines for call for papers and non-profit booth proposals Oct 15 15:16:54 that's quite a chunk of money :-) Oct 15 15:17:18 dneary: the budget around those events can focus on MeeGo swag, events box, sponsoring volunteers... Oct 15 15:17:26 dneary: instead of a MeeGo logo Oct 15 15:18:11 dneary: that money can come from the companies directly - as they usually do Oct 15 15:18:41 There is actually a high relative value to being cornerstone sponsor & having a nice party at an event that's bringing so many meego & related hackers together Oct 15 15:19:23 dneary: you are saying two different things: cornerstone sponsor = a lot of money, sponsoring a nice party not so much - let's go for the latter (as we did a GUADEC / aKademy) Oct 15 15:19:29 But if you think that it's better for Intel & Nokia to sponsor individually,n then I'm not going to convince you otherwise today :) I'm not sure that everyone in Nokia & Intel will agree with you, though Oct 15 15:19:50 qgil, The nice party will be offered to the cornerstone sponsor first Oct 15 15:19:57 This is how these things always work Oct 15 15:20:05 dneary: what I'msaying is that e.g. Nokia will consider sponsoring Desktop Summit with own Nokia logo regardless of a meeGo logo yes/no Oct 15 15:20:26 dneary: fine, those events have more than one night Oct 15 15:20:50 Anyway - I'm overstepping my responsibilities here - Claudia & Stormy will be looking for sponsors. Oct 15 15:21:10 dneary: yes, we talk every year :) Oct 15 15:21:25 It seemed obvious to me (but I guess maybe it's not so obvious) that Intel & Nokia would want MeeGo to be the brand that would be celebrated at the Desktop Summit Oct 15 15:21:42 dneary: well, technically MeeGo is not a desktop Oct 15 15:21:47 But you're the marketing guy Oct 15 15:21:52 doesn't want to be and doesn't take the UIs from either of the desktops Oct 15 15:22:26 thiago, Semantics, since neither GNOME nor KDE limits themselves to the traditional desktop these days (and for quite some time) Oct 15 15:22:30 However, MeeGo has an interest in that event succeeding because of the overlap and ensuring that the technologies coming from it are improved too Oct 15 15:22:37 true, I'll concede that :-) Oct 15 15:22:56 ok, so maybe the MeeGo brand should be shown Oct 15 15:23:18 I'm pretty sure that we'll want the Qt brand too, as we've sponsored Akademy since forever Oct 15 15:24:17 gentlemen, now you see why it's worth to define events first and then see what specifically we need to do in each event :) CES and Desktop Summit and COPU Beijing and Qt Dev Days have totally different approaches Oct 15 15:25:05 qgil: are you coming to DD SFO? Oct 15 15:25:13 dneary: yes :) Oct 15 15:25:22 I mean thiago YES :) Oct 15 15:25:27 ah, ok :-) Oct 15 15:25:51 * thiago needs to go upstairs to see the current registration numbers Oct 15 15:26:07 we had 1000+ people in Munich :-) Oct 15 15:26:41 dneary: one more comment about budget: in practice also e.g. Nokia has the 1H2011 marketing budget quite defined now, but then for each of these events "they" can think whether 100% of the activity goes around 'Nokia', or around 'MeeGo' or around 'Qt' or a combination of these Oct 15 15:27:15 again, for Nokia, Intel and any other MeeGo related company is interesting to know in the first place what are the intention of the MeeGo project ref Event X Oct 15 15:27:34 * qgil goes to update Events table now Oct 15 15:28:29 thiago, Personally, I'd prefer to see the MeeGo brand more prominent, since MeeGo also covers Qt in some sense Oct 15 15:28:51 dneary: same for me Oct 15 15:29:03 qgil, Since the conference is in August, I guess it'd be coming out of the 2011 H2 budget? :) Oct 15 15:29:07 dneary: but having the brand shown requires that someone pay for it Oct 15 15:29:24 thiago, Indeed Oct 15 15:29:40 and usually that someone is the entity that owns the brand, namely the LF Oct 15 15:29:51 thiago, And paying for the MeeGo brand to be prominent will cost less for each individual company, since more companies will pitch in ;) Oct 15 15:29:53 dneary: not necessarily if you want to pay the bill or commit to the expense in 1H - boring accountant bureaucracy Oct 15 15:29:54 hence the need for the table: what are the events and which ones should the LF put money on Oct 15 15:30:26 thiago, I don't think that MeeGo budget should come 100% from LF Oct 15 15:30:34 And be 100% an LF decision Oct 15 15:30:40 technically, it is Oct 15 15:30:45 only the LF can allow the brand to be used Oct 15 15:30:58 LF's budget come from sponsors too Oct 15 15:31:12 I'd prefer it to be a "Let's define what we want to do, estimate the costs, then decide how much each party will put in" Oct 15 15:31:13