**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 26 03:00:11 2010 Oct 26 03:59:50 does meego have its own wm protocol? Oct 26 04:00:13 or just reuse those from freedesktop? Oct 26 04:00:30 if I want to port x toolkit to it, where should I start? Oct 26 05:08:21 wall[e]: WM is still X Oct 26 05:08:52 mcompositor simply knows about a few extra properties that explain whether the application is aware that it should be doing MeeGo-style client-side decorations Oct 26 05:29:30 thiago: something like extended window manager hint Oct 26 05:30:24 any addition of that specific to meego? Oct 26 05:31:24 any document I should take a look? Oct 26 05:32:09 * wall[e] checks mcompositor Oct 26 05:33:01 mcompositor is a part of meegotouch? does that mean it requires qt? Oct 26 05:33:52 Hi All. I want to replace the kernel in the meego usb with a new kernel. I tried to replace the kernel with the mic-image-connverter. But the image produced by that is not bootable. Could someone please help me? Oct 26 05:34:17 Type : I want to replace the kernel in the meego usb image with a new kernel Oct 26 05:38:07 #meego-bugs Oct 26 05:40:01 K. Jessica. I will file a bug. However i want to get through this now. Did anyone faced similar?. Does anyone have a hack to replace the kernel in the meego usb image ? Oct 26 05:41:46 hi charubala190, you talk with me? Oct 26 05:43:46 Do you want me to initiate a private chat Oct 26 05:43:46 ? Oct 26 05:45:13 sure, if you need Oct 26 05:45:58 Jessica I am not how to start the chat. Can you initiate that? I issued /dcc chat jessica. But nothing happened Oct 26 05:46:04 I am not sure Oct 26 05:46:13 Can you inittiate that Oct 26 05:46:14 ? Oct 26 05:46:43 /dialog someone Oct 26 05:47:51 Thanks Walle Oct 26 05:49:51 Jessica/Walle, i gave the command, /dialog jessica_. I didnt see any response. Jessica are you getting any notification for the private chat Oct 26 05:49:52 ? Oct 26 05:50:07 yes, i don't see anything Oct 26 05:50:33 try /msg someone Oct 26 05:50:37 ok, whether you have IM account? Oct 26 05:51:40 Seems /msg is accepted. But says "Insufficient arguments for command" when i give /msg jessica_. Oct 26 05:53:49 /msg Oct 26 05:54:11 Walle, the command syntax is this. /msg . Jessica i just now gave a msg like that. Are you getting any message from me. Thanks tomma Oct 26 05:56:58 charubala1920, yes, i get your message Oct 26 06:01:14 ? Oct 26 06:02:29 Jessica /msg is not working for me now. when i give /msg jessica_ . I dont see any response Oct 26 06:12:09 you can both join a channel too. Oct 26 06:16:45 Walle i got connected. Thanks Jessica Oct 26 06:16:51 Sorry Thanks Walle Oct 26 06:17:08 no problem, i think yi will solve your problem Oct 26 06:26:55 Screenshots of HeyBuddy identi.ca client running on MeeGo netbook under qemu-kvm: http://tinyurl.com/24sty5x No mods needed by me, just ran and connected to identi.ca. Hey, PyGTK really is portable! H/T to Jezra of jezra.net, the author. Oct 26 06:29:17 People who think computing is joyless should have been watching me when I installed the sucker and it just ran. Next I'll try Xchat on meego-qemu. Oct 26 07:07:33 hi, need help configuring evtouch Oct 26 07:38:45 sunder: not that I could help you at all, but in general it's a lot easier to help if you actually give some pointers on where exactly you need help in Oct 26 07:41:11 Myrtti: I am on ConnectCore iMx51 based board and my evtouch configuration is SEGFAULTing X Oct 26 07:41:57 Myrtti: the evtouch driver is compiled for Xorg 1.8.99 and i am using Xorg 1.9.00 .. does is matter? Oct 26 07:42:01 sunder: yes, it does Oct 26 07:42:09 you really should be using evdev Oct 26 07:42:39 Stskeeps: i have tried .. could u please help? i means with the configuration Oct 26 07:43:51 sunder: http://pastie.org/1249448 is our n900 configuration - you need to take the section about Touchscreen Oct 26 07:44:02 and adjust it to your needs - start out with no "Calibration" line Oct 26 07:44:39 Stskeeps: Thanks, 'll check it and revert ifa nay queries.. Oct 26 07:45:49 sunder: since you're doing meego ARM work, #meego-arm is the place for you - we don't do your homework (as in, you'll have to understand the documentation yourself), but we do guide in the right direction Oct 26 08:30:55 * rittk just noticed that that lenovo s10-3t has a sim-card slot Oct 26 08:31:44 but seems like it doesn't supported on meego by some reason Oct 26 09:03:32 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4Wy7gRGgeA Oct 26 09:09:14 * rittk rebuilds the kernel Oct 26 09:09:48 niala: have you an internal 3g modem in that lenovo thing? Oct 26 09:10:47 hello rittk I don't have a lenova, I m fighting with asus t101 Oct 26 09:11:09 rittk, pop a sim in it and see if dmesg gives any reaction? Oct 26 09:11:16 s/with/again Oct 26 09:11:24 ah Oct 26 09:11:51 hello lcuk Oct 26 09:12:14 hi niala Oct 26 09:12:32 lcuk: nope. trying to rebuild the kernel with dccp and ericsson/nokia support Oct 26 09:12:54 ok rittk let us know how that goes, which model lenovo is it? Oct 26 09:13:12 community says that this thing has a F3507g modem Oct 26 09:13:17 * lcuk beats up box1 whilst doing stuff on box2 Oct 26 09:13:28 lcuk: s10-3t Oct 26 09:14:06 strange thing - I have a 3g modem but have no bluetooth unit in it Oct 26 09:14:12 rittk, does the rest of the system appear compatible and working? Oct 26 09:14:46 lcuk: yep. and even more stable with kernel-2.6.36 Oct 26 09:14:56 unpatched, though Oct 26 09:15:21 btw, kernel from a daily repo hanging sometimes Oct 26 09:15:28 ok, rittk could you make sure you add your device specific notes on here: http://wiki.meego.com/Devices Oct 26 09:15:51 whether it works or not, next time someone with a device comes along they might have easier time than you Oct 26 09:15:52 lcuk: didn't see that page) reading... Oct 26 09:53:51 who have lenovo s10-3t too? Oct 26 09:59:19 rittk: what's wrong with s10-3t ? Oct 26 10:00:16 niala: wanted to see someone's else lspci output Oct 26 10:00:36 (someone else's ?) Oct 26 10:01:04 oki :/ good luck Oct 26 10:01:37 blessing me?) Oct 26 10:02:36 I bless you Oct 26 10:03:52 thanks) Oct 26 10:04:23 * rittk going to reboot and test the new kernel Oct 26 10:04:32 only R Stallman can bless you rittk http://www.blog-note.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/richard-stallman-gourou1.jpg Oct 26 10:04:55 f??? him Oct 26 10:05:59 slow down... Oct 26 10:07:52 hmm, it didn't find any 3g modems ( Oct 26 10:32:38 new Meego sdk image meego-handset-sdk-20101012-1.1.80.20101024.1603-sda.raw is available for downloading from meego site, but it seems like it has no startmeego and qtcreator.. So how can I develop using this image? Oct 26 10:34:10 denis___, I already asked about the startmeego case on the -sdk ML earlier Oct 26 10:36:57 denis___, you need to install meego-simulator-launcher-handset Oct 26 10:39:03 confirmed araujo :D thanks - can we add that note to the wiki Oct 26 10:40:06 lcuk, definitely :] Oct 26 10:41:08 araujo, thnk, now it works Oct 26 10:42:15 are these "beginner" questions ok in this channel or they should be asked in other channel? Oct 26 10:43:19 denis___, ask away, if it gets too crowded can find a better place Oct 26 10:43:35 * lcuk gets on with that email now Oct 26 10:44:17 denis___, I think all-level meego questions are welcome here :) Oct 26 10:44:40 ok, cool ) Oct 26 10:46:38 hmm, qtcreator is not installed also, how can I install qtcreator?.. Oct 26 10:47:39 same way you installed the launcher? Oct 26 10:47:46 zypper in qt-creator Oct 26 10:48:50 ah, yes ) Tried zypper install qtcreator but that was not correct.. Oct 26 10:49:13 zypper search ... Oct 26 10:49:18 that's a good start Oct 26 10:50:54 Bostik, a, thanks, zypper is a quite new tool for me.. Oct 26 10:51:23 if you've ever used apt frontends, you will learn zypper in a flash Oct 26 10:51:44 most of the commands are similar enough to lower the learning curve Oct 26 10:51:52 I hope so Oct 26 11:38:54 Hi guys Oct 26 11:39:20 hello Oct 26 11:39:33 I was going to flash MeeGo on my n900 but I found out there was no ubiimg file online ..... Oct 26 11:39:45 you need a microsd Oct 26 11:40:02 -.- gay Oct 26 11:40:07 don't have that on me atm Oct 26 11:40:33 heterosexual microsd cards work just as well Oct 26 11:40:53 haha :D Oct 26 11:40:55 you also need the N900 usb cable Oct 26 11:41:04 I have the USB cable Oct 26 11:41:14 gonna try to find hte SD Card Oct 26 11:41:53 why are we using the SD card btw and not the original way Oct 26 11:42:05 cos we don't fit in 256mb flash memory Oct 26 11:42:25 is the img bigger then 256Mb ? Oct 26 11:42:28 yeah Oct 26 11:42:30 lol Oct 26 11:42:39 used to be like 137mb right ? Oct 26 11:43:22 so I am using the raw image now right ? Oct 26 11:43:47 a base system, xorg and xterm doesn't really require much space Oct 26 11:43:48 :P Oct 26 11:44:15 Stskeeps: how's this: Oct 26 11:44:15 41 * Why do you need a MicroSD card to run MeeGo on the N900? Oct 26 11:44:15 42 - MeeGo is to large to fit on the N900's internal 256MB memory. Oct 26 11:45:06 is there a nice guide anywhere online for flashing with the sd card ? Oct 26 11:45:21 wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/MMC Oct 26 11:46:24 there's a 32 GB extra memory on the N900... Oct 26 11:46:32 http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/MMC Oct 26 11:46:42 Stskeeps: damn you Oct 26 11:47:06 thiago: yeah, but most people aren't happy to erase all their music, movies, installed programs and so on.. Oct 26 11:47:53 is the wiki up to date as 1.3 q Oct 26 11:48:00 was released yday Oct 26 11:48:11 it's partitioned so that there's a 2 GB ext3 and a 29 GB vfat Oct 26 11:48:19 and 768 MB swap Oct 26 11:48:50 Joppeffs: http://blip.tv/file/4296208 Oct 26 11:49:14 can meego be mounted and booted from an image file stored on the fat32 MyDocs ? Oct 26 11:49:22 so its not actually breaking existing? Oct 26 11:49:31 no, unless you set up dm loop and a special initrd Oct 26 11:49:51 yes that is yes, but not easily.. :p Oct 26 11:50:03 (glass half full) Oct 26 11:51:31 I wonder if the N900 can play that video better than my powerbook :/ Oct 26 11:59:39 oh well, gonna try that Oct 26 12:00:34 MeeGo QA tools weekly meeting starts in about 5 minutes in #meego-meeting Oct 26 12:00:52 feel free to join Oct 26 12:28:52 I am using debian on vmware. should I go for Qemu setup of xephyr? Oct 26 12:29:02 i have nvidia card but that doesn't matter on VMware Oct 26 12:36:36 oFono 0.33 was released Oct 26 13:45:24 Hello people! Oct 26 13:45:54 can anyone point me to the right link for the kickstart config files for handsets? Oct 26 13:46:07 this link is already dead -- http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/trunk/images/ Oct 26 13:48:54 found it Oct 26 14:14:06 hi, which is the best option to test meego release images - qemu or chroot? Oct 26 14:18:05 hob, which UX are you targeting? Oct 26 14:18:33 qgil: if you didn't see the dual booting video yet, http://blip.tv/file/4296208 Oct 26 14:19:01 netbook image Oct 26 14:20:16 Stskeeps: interesting you can see the proximilty sensor flickering in your video Oct 26 14:20:24 lardman: yeah, infrared Oct 26 14:20:37 yep Oct 26 14:21:04 Stskeeps: so that auto-boots the SD if available then? Oct 26 14:21:24 lardman: yeah, looks for a uimage on vfat partition 3 Oct 26 14:21:41 Stskeeps: a sad paradox: trying to access the video page with Chromium in MeeGo Netbook sends me to http://www.google.com/support/chrome/bin/answer.py?answer=95669&hl=en Oct 26 14:22:05 * Stskeeps looks Oct 26 14:22:35 ah, lovely Oct 26 14:23:18 Stskeeps: can you paste the URL again pls? Oct 26 14:23:33 http://blip.tv/file/4296208 Oct 26 14:24:27 or http://blip.tv/file/get/Chuci-N900DualbootingMaemoAndMeeGo117.m4v Oct 26 14:24:54 if meego has codecs for it.. Oct 26 14:26:52 * Stskeeps makes a mental reminder to ask people to encode in theora.. Oct 26 14:26:56 hello, yes first url works for me on meego netbook chromium. but m4v I think not by default Oct 26 14:30:26 We are going to need lots of replacement battery covers soon :) Oct 26 14:30:37 i haven't killed mine yet Oct 26 14:31:36 there's possibility for more of a menu if you'd like to customize Oct 26 14:31:44 full u-boot boot script support Oct 26 14:32:00 nice. Oct 26 14:32:18 .. and passing parameters to kernel Oct 26 14:32:49 Stskeeps, I think mine must have been the only one that wouldn't boot into Maemo using u-boot Oct 26 14:32:59 Must have been destined to die to rid me of the problem Oct 26 14:33:53 It'll be interesting to see if it happens to anyone else once u-boot is the official way to dual boot Oct 26 14:34:24 well, we need to properly test it natually Oct 26 14:34:26 naturally Oct 26 14:37:03 Stskeeps, there's a problem with that - does the adaptation team have at least one of every revision of the n900? I'm not sure weather it was specifically mine, or something changed in the hardware revision that made it incompatible. It's a possibility it won't get caught until it's given out, and even then, it will be a hard arse problem to fix, since the person probably won't have serial access Oct 26 14:37:29 Termana: QA has a quite extensive area and i plan to be tying u-boot with pr1.3 kernel.. Oct 26 14:37:50 Termana: were you loading the uImage from sd card? Oct 26 14:38:05 Stskeeps, I tried both methods, attached with the u-boot image and from SD Oct 26 14:38:09 hmm Oct 26 14:38:11 that's interesting Oct 26 14:38:18 power kernel installed? Oct 26 14:38:21 nope Oct 26 14:38:29 I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole :p Oct 26 14:38:36 good Oct 26 14:38:37 :P Oct 26 14:41:24 Stskeeps: are we going to have an "install fest" at the conference? Oct 26 14:44:21 lbt: maybe Oct 26 14:44:55 are you going early ? Sat/sun ? Oct 26 14:45:00 landing sunday Oct 26 14:45:11 'k Oct 26 14:46:19 awwwwwww Oct 26 14:49:06 lbt, make it more interesting - run apache on MeeGo on your n900 and allow people to connect to your n900 over wifi, and host the image on it Oct 26 14:50:35 Forget the fact that it will be half curling over from swapping having MeeGo and Apache, and also forget the fact Apache isn't ported for MeeGo ARM (afaik). Oct 26 14:50:41 :p Oct 26 14:51:27 * lbt runs lighttpd on his N900 Oct 26 14:51:29 :D Oct 26 14:57:10 Stskeeps: is there a sane way of encoding theora anyway? I tried mencoder but my brain segfaulted looking for a way Oct 26 14:57:20 Myrtti: ffmpeg2theora is nice and eas Oct 26 14:57:21 y Oct 26 15:15:49 hmmh Oct 26 15:15:59 all went well with the update Oct 26 15:16:10 browsers feels much faster Oct 26 15:16:11 n900? Oct 26 15:16:16 yep Oct 26 15:16:21 hm, I wonder should I have picked a slightly worse quality of video Oct 26 15:16:26 this is going to take forever Oct 26 15:26:42 after the upgrade it went back to stock kernel instead of the power kernel I used to have, I wonder if I tried the power save settings too much, because phone feels much quicker. What are you all running, stock kernel or the power one? Oct 26 15:26:51 oh, sorry, wrong channel Oct 26 15:27:58 oh yeah, same here :) Oct 26 16:05:09 wasted two hours to understand why my internal 3g modem isn't supported...googling, reading, patching the kernel - nothing helps... Oct 26 16:05:26 and finally the answer! Oct 26 16:06:22 someone stole 3g unit Oct 26 16:06:29 b????s Oct 26 16:30:42 whats taking meego so long to get on a phone ? I can't wait to dump my symbian phone. Oct 26 16:31:26 It's still in development Oct 26 16:31:53 Nokia will have a meego phone next year, othwr vendors have yet to announce anything Oct 26 16:32:51 I gave in and bought an evo, tired of waiting :( Oct 26 16:33:58 I will of course regret my decision when the n9 or whatever the first meego device is, especially if it is cortex-a9 Oct 26 16:39:58 Trying to run the recent handset image with QEMU I get: ./meego-qemu-start: line 64: 9854 Segmentation fault `echo $COMMON_CMD -hda $IMAGE_NAME` Oct 26 16:41:32 (following http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_SDK_with_QEMU#Setup_QEMU-based_MeeGo_Emulator) Oct 26 16:43:29 I haven't tried the netbook image yet but I'm going to once it's downloaded Oct 26 16:56:50 no intel chip on a phone ? :-) Oct 26 16:57:08 not for a while I imagine Oct 26 16:57:26 they're still way behind in power consumption Oct 26 16:59:35 http://forum.meego.com/ is down ? Oct 26 17:00:16 yes, I believe it shares a server with talk.maemo.org...? and that's toast too. Oct 26 17:00:26 niala: oui Oct 26 17:00:39 arghh Oct 26 17:00:43 hello CosmoHill Oct 26 17:00:48 bonsoir Oct 26 17:00:59 how are you. Oct 26 17:01:08 je vias bien, merci Oct 26 17:01:11 et toi? Oct 26 17:01:32 I'm fine. c'est la vie Oct 26 17:01:43 vie? Oct 26 17:02:12 life Oct 26 17:02:22 ah merci Oct 26 17:03:52 I have some pb with mic . I can not do my own meego.iso Oct 26 17:04:33 I have already do some and today: UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in position 13: ordinal not in range(128) Oct 26 17:05:46 well 0xC3 is a wrongascii code indeed Oct 26 17:07:43 is there any phone I could purchase if I want meego? Oct 26 17:07:47 yes and why he says me that today? ks file in wrong format? Oct 26 17:08:59 loufoque: n900 I suppose Oct 26 17:09:21 I thought meego on N900 wasn't officially supported Oct 26 17:09:35 it isn't Oct 26 17:09:48 but it is the reference device Oct 26 17:35:05 OK, so following http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.1/Getting_started_with_the_MeeGo_SDK_for_Linux (I'm on openSUSE 11.3 x86_64) I've managed to cross-compile the qt example to ARM. What's the next step for running it in an emulator? Doing meego-qemu-start with the images at http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_the_MeeGo_SDK_for_Linux just segfaults. Oct 26 17:35:38 fix the segfault, would be the next step :) Oct 26 17:38:09 heh :) Oct 26 17:42:46 In fact it's stranger than that. If I manually run the command that meego-qemu-start is doing then I get http://pastebin.com/y5F24XCY which is strange because it looks like it's ignoring some of the arguments or something.. Anyone else seen this? Oct 26 18:17:13 hi, is there a special channel for meego-on-n900 or is this the right place to ask? Oct 26 18:17:34 try #meego-arm Oct 26 18:21:28 the #meego-leg really kicks some arse Oct 26 18:21:39 hoho Oct 26 18:22:02 * stephg it's actually suspiciously quiet in -arm at the moment Oct 26 18:22:56 stephg: shout something Oct 26 18:23:09 btw was it you who made the dual boot n900 video? Oct 26 18:23:42 my video, ali1234 and Stskeeps work Oct 26 18:24:40 CosmoHill, how many computers would it take to fill the batcave? Oct 26 18:25:00 lcuk: depends which decade you get it from Oct 26 18:25:15 and this is the backtrace from the crash: http://pastebin.com/DTsdhcVd Oct 26 18:25:24 well assume its quite an old cave Oct 26 18:25:31 :P Oct 26 18:25:49 about a dozen? Oct 26 18:33:26 btw anyone know exactly why the forum has gone down the tubes? can't just be because of Maemo PR1.3 traffic can it? Oct 26 18:34:24 stephg: talk.maemo.something has gone down too Oct 26 18:34:46 CosmoHill, yeah they're on the same infrastructure, that's why I was wondering Oct 26 18:35:02 I thought the download the download server and forum server are different Oct 26 18:35:07 it's just it's the second day of forum flakeyness and it's launching tomorrow... Oct 26 18:35:41 they may be:- just that TMO and FMC flakiness coinciding is more than a bit odd Oct 26 18:37:11 stephg, talk and forum are on same server Oct 26 18:37:25 so chicken or egg ;) Oct 26 18:37:39 and do not underestimate the hoards of people wanting to jump onto threads Oct 26 18:38:01 regiie posted the load from the server on twitter last night afaik Oct 26 18:38:06 reggie Oct 26 18:39:42 lcuk, can appreciate the TMO excitement, especially given the, ahem, voracity of some of the posters Oct 26 18:39:46 stephg: dinosaur Oct 26 18:40:02 heh Oct 26 19:04:28 * CosmoHill goes looking for his attention span Oct 26 19:06:02 CosmoHill: there was a lecture at the university today regarding improving your memory, in order to do better at exams. guess who forgot to go Oct 26 19:06:24 it's either you or your teacher Oct 26 19:06:32 me. but i'm guessing i wasn't the only one Oct 26 19:07:49 they changed our university rules Oct 26 19:08:31 if you miss an exam or dead line you score zero for that and you're not allowed a resit Oct 26 19:08:43 unless you have a very good reason Oct 26 19:08:46 hrm, sprint joining meego Oct 26 19:10:26 I wonder if I can buy a crashed car and some fake blood... Oct 26 19:21:03 what is going on? i'm logged into meego.com, i go to wiki.meego.com, it asks me to log in, i click log in, it sends me back to meego.com, and when i navigate to wiki.meego.com i'm asked to log in again Oct 26 19:21:31 old bug Oct 26 19:21:32 i've had this problem for days, and it's becoming more and more urgent that i sign myself up for one of the shared rooms Oct 26 19:21:54 sjokkis: logout then log in again Oct 26 19:24:56 CosmoHill: thank you Oct 26 19:27:05 sjokkis: I got so confused when I saw the log in and log out button at the same time Oct 26 19:43:20 Stskeeps: is this hardfp going to 1.2, then? I don't see the big deal either Oct 26 19:45:59 probably have simply two builds Oct 26 19:46:10 I've been asking the same question to linaro folks here at UDS Oct 26 19:46:16 arjan has a point to some degree, the hardfp work is 'very new' Oct 26 19:47:09 harmattan has switched to it Oct 26 19:47:18 ^that was going to be my question Oct 26 19:47:24 apparently firefox has an issue. That's as far as I know the only one. Oct 26 19:49:33 thiago: could you ask them a simple question: is linaro toolchain going to be hardfp as primary point of reference? Oct 26 19:50:03 Stskeeps: explain Oct 26 19:50:06 what do you mean by that? Oct 26 19:50:33 ok, so, linaro delivers their toolchain and a reference stack which vendors can build their closed components and so on on top of Oct 26 19:50:40 (to my knowledge) Oct 26 19:50:54 if their plan is to stick with softfp or hardfp in the things they provide Oct 26 19:51:41 because if they're going for hardfp, there's really no doubt that we have to go hardfp too Oct 26 19:53:08 qgil__: OBS naming... any issues with build.pub.meego.com as per : http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=1671 Oct 26 19:53:33 I asked the question Oct 26 19:53:39 so the toolchain supports hardfp Oct 26 19:53:51 whether they have a Linaro hardfp build is not a decision from the toolchain team Oct 26 19:53:56 but it's something they're considering Oct 26 19:54:57 lbt: do you mind asking via email to -community? :) Oct 26 19:55:12 looks fine to me here and now but better go through more visible discussion Oct 26 19:55:21 sure... Oct 26 19:55:30 CosmoHill: ping Oct 26 19:56:02 thiago: I understand the reasoning not to introduce it in 1.1.x, wouldn't it too bad if it enters in 1.2 Oct 26 19:56:09 thiago: or am I missing something? Oct 26 19:56:12 * thiago agrees Oct 26 19:56:16 I actually recommended doing it for 1.2 Oct 26 19:56:53 thiago: ok, I got confused in the thread, thenç Oct 26 19:57:00 the best would be if 1.1 switched now Oct 26 19:57:05 but that's not gonna happen :-) Oct 26 19:57:20 * thiago needs to go talk to arjan f2f on Thursday Oct 26 19:57:22 qgil__: the problem is that it is essentially like adding a new architecture, like MIPS .. Oct 26 19:58:30 Stskeeps: I'm not an architect :) but if Harmattan is shipping with it I guess they had reasons to do that, and since it's going to a real product I guess they are taking care of the QA related to that Oct 26 19:59:12 Stskeeps: then again app developers will have to recompile anyway between MeeGo 1.2 and MeeGo-Harmattan, so I don't even see the big worry for them during 1.2, if you push me :) Oct 26 19:59:50 Isn't the worry that it breaks forward compatibility from earlier MeeGo binaries, not that it forces a recompile per se. Oct 26 19:59:59 andyross: basically Oct 26 20:02:12 if meego 1.1 for some reason is a success in ARM market, ISVs, SoC vendors would build binaries and for 1.2, they'd be worthless.. and then we have the problem of "For MeeGo 1.1" "For MeeGo 1.2" .. Oct 26 20:04:10 I think the boat has sailed on changing 1.1 Oct 26 20:04:15 that one ises softfp Oct 26 20:04:41 the question is how to go forward. There's a huge CPU stall on doing softfp. If you don't care about compatibility with ARMv5, you should use the FPU. Oct 26 20:04:44 Stskeeps: ARM success would imply either Handset or Tablet most likely - whoever gets doen that path for 1.1 knows that will need to add some work Oct 26 20:04:53 yeah, quite a fair bit of work Oct 26 20:04:54 numbers I've heard here are that it improves apps between 5% to 30% Oct 26 20:05:08 and some apps that are fp-intensive (like povray) up to 300% Oct 26 20:05:29 mmm povray Oct 26 20:05:53 * wmarone raytraces on his N900 Oct 26 20:06:09 the developer story sucks intensely with this break, but then again: we already mandate compliance towards a certain version (1.1, 1.2..), with no promises in compliance doc on ABI stability... and in the end: it's just adding a new build target to your OBS or selecting the right option in the SDK Oct 26 20:06:23 qgil__: can the people with some inside knowledge determine if there actually are any ARM targets for 1.1 that matter, from the compatibility issue that Stskeeps shows ? Oct 26 20:06:43 then again, if this is an ARM-only issue, therefore affecting mainly Handset / Tablet and in the meantime Harmattan is already using it.... I can see how the risk and heat could be taken by the MeeGo ARM team - but this is easy speculation from my side :) Oct 26 20:06:59 * thiago points out that there are some ARM netbooks circulating here in Orlando Oct 26 20:07:00 berndhs: i can't tell who will start building anything based on meego 1.1 arm in the future Oct 26 20:07:05 running on NVidia Tegra II Oct 26 20:07:32 Stskeeps: that's sort of my point, nobody knwos if there will be any in the next 6 months or so Oct 26 20:07:56 was there a reason this wasn't discussed months ago? Oct 26 20:07:58 berndhs: no idea, I work at Nokia and beyond that I only know what you can read too in the Internet Oct 26 20:07:59 Stskeeps: but perhaps if meego announces a compatibility change to 1.2, there won't be for another few months Oct 26 20:08:07 thiago: I got one running arround freescale imx51 (genesi smartbook) Oct 26 20:08:42 I think at this point we need to treat it as a new arch Oct 26 20:08:50 berndhs: I don't think an ARM vendr would change plans for this hrdfp being implemented now or later Oct 26 20:08:51 we'll figure out how to deprecate softfp later Oct 26 20:08:59 thiago: well, we ditched armv5 silently for meego 1.1 ;) Oct 26 20:09:11 so there's a previous occourence Oct 26 20:09:11 I never considered the ARMv5 build serious Oct 26 20:09:26 there was a dissonance in having OpenGL ES required and ARMv5 Oct 26 20:09:42 yeah, we have to be at least at armv6+vfp for those to appear.. Oct 26 20:09:48 thiago: yes say its an additional arch and tell people how great this is, meego has 3 now Oct 26 20:10:01 maybe more in the future Oct 26 20:10:07 I see a MIPS down the line... Oct 26 20:10:13 but the 'adding another arch' direction is the only way technically Oct 26 20:10:42 makes sense Oct 26 20:10:53 btw, does anyone have the ARM build and can run readelf -A on libQtCore for me, please? Oct 26 20:11:00 Stskeeps: make it look like an advantage then Oct 26 20:11:08 you could invest time in providing optimized libs via hwcaps -- /me questions Oct 26 20:11:22 zumbi_: not if it's an ABI-changing option Oct 26 20:11:33 unless you want to duplicate *all* libraries and plugins on the device Oct 26 20:11:35 thiago: sec Oct 26 20:11:40 lbt CosmoHill and what can be found at 'pub.meego.com'? Oct 26 20:12:01 I'd redirect that to build.pub.meego.com Oct 26 20:12:19 lbt: and why not call it pub.meego.com directly? Oct 26 20:12:20 or.... we could have beer as in free ? Oct 26 20:12:33 we have api.pub.meego.com Oct 26 20:12:34 beer.pub.meego.com Oct 26 20:12:46 and download.pub.meego.com Oct 26 20:12:56 together these are the OBS web services Oct 26 20:13:16 i support beer.pub.meego.com Oct 26 20:13:48 thiago: http://pastie.org/1250985 Oct 26 20:13:52 berndhs: I do thing the redirect after 10 seconds page could be entertaining ;) Oct 26 20:14:43 lbt: I think you are just baptizing your Surrounds as MeeGo Pub, which doesn't sound bad to me :) Oct 26 20:14:59 Stskeeps: thanks Oct 26 20:15:06 heh... it's kinda related Oct 26 20:15:09 no Neon requirements there Oct 26 20:15:15 thiago: yeah, armv7 is currently without neon Oct 26 20:15:19 Surrounds may become a project in pub Oct 26 20:15:19 I know Oct 26 20:15:25 but the thing is that Qt turns it back on Oct 26 20:15:35 unless the option is disabled specifically in configure Oct 26 20:15:45 do you know if we specifically turn Neon off? Oct 26 20:16:19 thiago: i think configure takes it away.. sec Oct 26 20:17:17 speaking of nvidia tegra2 .. it doesn't have NEON does it? Oct 26 20:17:21 * thiago needs to change rooms Oct 26 20:17:25 bb in 5 min Oct 26 20:18:13 * qgil__ has for lunch this Soup Chowder Clam New Engand that says "Sell by 10/24/10" and was in my refrigerator for a week - hope to see you in Dublin! :) Oct 26 20:18:20 Stskeeps: no NEON on tegra2 Oct 26 20:18:38 lbt: How do I get access to build.meego.com. I have an account for build.opensuse.org. Oct 26 20:18:57