**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Dec 23 02:59:58 2010 Dec 23 05:09:28 good morning Dec 23 06:21:44 where is the qemu nand image for n900? anyone can help Dec 23 06:29:39 info: MeeGo QA Test Suite name has been changed to MeeGo Quality Assurance Dec 23 07:38:00 is MADDE available for x86_64? Dec 23 07:39:41 I've only found the shell script for i686.is there one for x86_64? Dec 23 07:40:04 cannot seem to link my qemu image to the Qt creator Dec 23 07:53:40 any book about qgit? Dec 23 08:07:22 is MADDE available for x86_64?anybody? Dec 23 08:34:48 Might be a bit offtopic for this channel, but maybe lbt or X-Fade could share some advice on how to get OBS building for Maemo? :) Dec 23 08:37:51 * dm8tbr waves at Hq` :) Dec 23 08:37:57 I have a "hello world" package with almost no dependencies building ok, but have trouble with Qt Dec 23 08:38:40 Hq`: http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenSuse_Build_Service/Fremantle_Setup Dec 23 08:39:20 if the "default partion layout" that the meego installer creates defined somewhere? Dec 23 08:39:34 lbt: I've done everything described in that wiki I think Dec 23 08:39:35 if/is Dec 23 08:40:01 lbt: I don't seem to be able to call qmake from debian/rules Dec 23 08:40:34 qmake and /usr/bin/qmake both fail with "Command not found" Dec 23 08:40:43 libqt4-dev is installed Dec 23 08:40:50 that's "just" chroot/path issues Dec 23 08:41:14 do a local build Dec 23 08:41:18 and then osc chroot Dec 23 08:41:27 will put you "in" the chroot to examine Dec 23 08:42:54 ok thanks, will try that Dec 23 08:48:01 do you have the project.dsc file with that build-depends? Dec 23 08:48:59 yes Dec 23 08:59:03 interesting the netbook daily image didn't allow helsinki as my timezone :) Dec 23 09:19:04 Hi everybody. I am following the steps @ http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_SDK_with_Xephyr . i mounted meego image successfully but when i try to sudo zypper dist-upgrade it lists packages to be updated but doesn't download any thing. Can some body help me with this Dec 23 09:26:27 I am facing this problem on ubuntu 10.04 machine Dec 23 10:01:16 lbt: /usr/bin/qmake is there, but it cannot be executed at all... I'm assuming it's due to some missing libraries somewhere Dec 23 10:01:32 error ? Dec 23 10:01:57 linux:/# /usr/bin/qmake Dec 23 10:01:57 bash: /usr/bin/qmake: No such file or directory Dec 23 10:02:11 Hq`: welcome to the wonderful world of MADDE and maemo Dec 23 10:02:15 hehe Dec 23 10:02:32 Hq`: if you trace the symlink jungle, /usr/bin/qmake points to x86-32 binary Dec 23 10:02:39 *ALWAYS* Dec 23 10:03:17 now assuming you want to build a Qt software inside qemu-arm... say hello to pain Dec 23 10:03:52 yeah, I noticed it's an i386 binary even though it's from armel deb package... Dec 23 10:03:59 yep Dec 23 10:05:23 the Qt devel package is designed to work only for Nokia's specific integration system; and you can't even build a qmake binary in scratchbox either because that one somehow gets versioned symbols that do not exist inside MADDE sysroot Dec 23 10:07:00 you didn't say "scratchbox" did you Dec 23 10:07:10 yes, I did Dec 23 10:07:12 please forgive me Dec 23 10:07:13 tell me I'm asleep and having nightmares about irc Dec 23 10:07:20 * lbt slaps himself Dec 23 10:07:43 yeah I'm trying to work with OBS Dec 23 10:08:14 * lbt suggests we put together an OBS/chroot based solution that actually works ... and focuses on cli Dec 23 10:08:27 the only way to build a working qmake + tools for maemo-armel builds is to manually build the Qt toolchain parts in qemu-arm with EXACTLY the same options that are passed to build in maemo-build; then copy the binaries over Dec 23 10:08:46 yep Dec 23 10:08:51 nice... Dec 23 10:09:08 honestly the Qt guys need to learn the definition of modular Dec 23 10:09:17 and then, if you control your own OBS instance, prepare a .deb package that overrides the qt-dev files AND is forcefully installed at the end of the bootstrap Dec 23 10:09:20 we did that Dec 23 10:09:24 oh sorryu Dec 23 10:09:34 *I* did 90%, coworker did the remaining 10% Dec 23 10:09:59 let me sanity check Dec 23 10:10:02 Fremantle? Dec 23 10:10:14 took me better part of three weeks to get everything exactly right but the end result is a maemo-specific OBS system that can build native armel binaries Dec 23 10:10:16 Hi everybody. I am following the steps @ http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_SDK_with_Xephyr . i mounted meego image successfully but when i try to sudo zypper dist-upgrade it lists packages to be updated but doesn't download any thing. Can some body help me with this Dec 23 10:10:18 yes, fremantle Dec 23 10:10:38 Is there any other way to compile non-qt packages for meego arm than OBS? Dec 23 10:10:44 so ... why aren't you part of the community team Bostik ? Dec 23 10:10:55 lbt: should I be? Dec 23 10:11:01 well duh! Dec 23 10:11:13 * lbt gets on his knees Dec 23 10:11:40 we really need to push the maemo guys onto OBS Dec 23 10:11:56 we'd *really* appreciate the help Dec 23 10:12:07 did you follow my fremantle bootstrapping guide? Dec 23 10:12:08 lbt: I also did something very nasty with the remaining stuff; since you can't build maemo-qt without lots of nokia-proprietary packages, I manually extracted the required package contents from MADDE sysroot and built binary-only override packages that Provide: the required dependency Dec 23 10:12:18 no, I figure everything from scratc Dec 23 10:12:19 ok, thanks for the info Dec 23 10:12:32 http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenSuse_Build_Service/Fremantle_Setup Dec 23 10:12:50 and I did document the whole process in our work wiki; trust me, the Nokia guys know very well what kind of hoops I jumped through to get the thing running Dec 23 10:13:03 can you publish it? Dec 23 10:13:14 I can publish the instructions, I believe Dec 23 10:13:25 OK - we already have maemo obs running Dec 23 10:13:30 and most of extras builds thee Dec 23 10:13:36 but I'll ask the relevant people after saturnalia Dec 23 10:13:39 but I've not built the cross- part yet Dec 23 10:14:15 please talk to X-Fade and I about it Dec 23 10:14:32 especially if you'd like to help the community side get going Dec 23 10:14:38 we really need the help Dec 23 10:15:01 lbt: I guess the first thing we should do is upgrade the maemo one to 2.1 Dec 23 10:15:11 I have no idea how to pull the cross-build part together for OBS/maemo Dec 23 10:15:11 true Dec 23 10:15:24 it was hard enough to get the native ARM builds up Dec 23 10:15:24 Bostik: we can work on that too Dec 23 10:15:43 X-Fade: is Qt still an issue in extras? Dec 23 10:15:47 on maemo obs Dec 23 10:15:58 lbt: Somebody packaged a new version. Dec 23 10:16:14 lbt: Without the i386 binaries in the armel dev package ;) Dec 23 10:16:31 well, sorry you didn't see my notes earlier Bostik - I had that working last december Dec 23 10:16:43 I need a clone() of myself; already too little time for things at work and practically no time at all for personal projects Dec 23 10:16:56 * lbt knows the feeling only too well Dec 23 10:17:03 where do you work? Dec 23 10:17:09 at Nomovok Dec 23 10:17:24 ! Dec 23 10:17:34 didn't realise :) Dec 23 10:17:42 some of our other people are probably better known to you ;) Dec 23 10:18:15 well... I'm trying to get Nomovok to arrange some community stuff Dec 23 10:18:28 there's a lot of people doing stuff around meego Dec 23 10:18:38 indeed Dec 23 10:18:44 I'm happy to be one that lot Dec 23 10:18:46 and it would be nice to have some coordination Dec 23 10:19:06 nothing 'official' Dec 23 10:19:25 just a way to make better use of an existing network Dec 23 10:19:52 right ... I have to go kick BOSS into better shape Dec 23 10:19:55 bblr Dec 23 10:20:04 my 8 key is dying Dec 23 10:20:12 the people I would think are best suited to coordinate anything like that are overworked :/ Dec 23 10:20:54 hehe... there was going to be a hint to officially allocate a smidge of community-time too.... Dec 23 10:21:18 heck... lots of this feeds back into products that are useful on customer jobs Dec 23 10:21:21 it's investment Dec 23 10:22:14 at least the last project I was in got a blanket permission to publish any and all code modifications directly without $LEGAL getting anywhere near the decision Dec 23 10:27:17 but on the subject of meego... a vbox-VM with 1.1 on btrfs is nothing short of glacial Dec 23 10:27:53 it takes more time for a new kernel-devel package to install than it takes for me to upload the tarball and OBS to build it :) Dec 23 10:33:38 (probably the postinst "hardlink -c" which is the worst offender) Dec 23 11:09:20 is 'fathi.boudra@nokia.com' here? Dec 23 11:09:36 fabo Dec 23 11:26:51 ... Dec 23 11:31:18 X-Fade: is the qt package with armel binaries available somewhere? Dec 23 11:33:54 Hq`: I think MohammadAG has them. Dec 23 11:34:50 Hq`: And someone packaged them here: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/libqt4-dev-arm/ Dec 23 11:36:08 alright, I'll try that one Dec 23 11:36:11 thanks Dec 23 11:55:35 how can i buy an aava? Dec 23 11:56:22 tzorvas____: contact the company Dec 23 11:59:05 what is the price of this mobile dev? Dec 23 12:01:33 more than a n900 :) Dec 23 12:02:01 tzorvas____, ask them Dec 23 12:02:16 out of office reply i have to wait until 27/12 at least :$ Dec 23 12:02:27 lol Dec 23 12:02:59 maybe they also have a time machine so they can retroactively add it to santas sack Dec 23 12:03:12 if anyone knows the price for aava please tell it to me :D (if i buy it, it will be my christmas present :P ) Dec 23 12:03:35 it won't get to you buy christmas Dec 23 12:03:44 so you might as well wait until monday to contact them :) Dec 23 12:03:45 tzorvas____, afaik it comes down as development board price range rather than normal commercial phone Dec 23 12:04:04 lcuk: i want it for development purposes :) Dec 23 12:04:16 http://www.aavamobile.com/ Dec 23 12:04:17 * lcuk nods Dec 23 12:04:25 that website wasn't that easy to find Dec 23 12:04:50 tzorvas____: i thought i heard 2000 eur at last Dec 23 12:05:10 (i wish i was kidding) Dec 23 12:06:00 CosmoHill: so you can find the price of this mobile @ this website?.. i have sent an email and i am waiting.. Dec 23 12:06:08 Stskeeps: if you are right, i am screwed :D Dec 23 12:06:28 http://mg.pov.lt/meego-irclog/%23meego.2010-07-13.log.html#t2010-07-13T08:50:46 Dec 23 12:06:31 tzorvas____: buy a n900, excellent developer device Dec 23 12:06:49 agreed and confirmed at least a few months ago, speculative ~$2k Dec 23 12:08:19 Stskeeps: lcuk ok thanks i will go with n900 :P Dec 23 12:17:05 nfc on mobile testing results: too slow for London underground http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/23/oyster_london_nfc/ Dec 23 14:48:07 Hi, does anybody hit a mic-image-creator error when building the image, the error message is like this: Dec 23 14:48:18 Traceback (most recent call last): Dec 23 14:48:20 File "/usr/bin/mic-image-creator", line 871, in Dec 23 14:48:21 ret = main() Dec 23 14:48:23 File "/usr/bin/mic-image-creator", line 695, in main Dec 23 14:48:40 ...... Dec 23 14:48:42 errread, errwrite) Dec 23 14:48:44 File "/usr/lib/python2.6/subprocess.py", line 1141, in _execute_child Dec 23 14:48:45 raise child_exception Dec 23 14:48:53 please use pastebin.com Dec 23 14:48:58 ok Dec 23 14:49:24 I searched that there is a same problem reported on pastie.org/pastes/1375686 Dec 23 14:49:38 I'm on a 64 bit ubuntu Dec 23 14:49:47 ubuntu 10.10 amd64 Dec 23 14:51:29 aries: please pastebin you exact error Dec 23 14:51:41 ok Dec 23 14:51:42 along with the context Dec 23 14:53:26 http://pastebin.com/SgZC4eFw Dec 23 14:55:09 aries: mic is trying to execute a subprocess, but one of the arguments is a non-existing file (most likely the executable itself) Dec 23 14:56:16 go to File "/usr/bin/mic-image-creator", line 265 and find out what that executable is Dec 23 14:56:27 the most likely problem is just that it is not installed Dec 23 14:56:39 ret = subprocess.call(args, preexec_fn = chroot_bootstrap) Dec 23 14:56:42 line 265 Dec 23 14:57:04 yes, you need to find the contents of args Dec 23 14:57:30 either manually inspect it, add a "print args" or use a debugger Dec 23 14:57:54 ok Dec 23 14:59:37 kind of unfriendly of mic to explode, should abort in a more friendly way Dec 23 15:01:27 but chroot_bootstrap is a function defined like this: Dec 23 15:01:38 def chroot_bootstrap(): Dec 23 15:01:39 """Chroot into bootstrap env""" Dec 23 15:01:41 try: Dec 23 15:01:42 os.chroot(bootstrap) Dec 23 15:01:44 os.chdir("/") Dec 23 15:01:45 except: Dec 23 15:01:47 raise FatalError("Please specify a workable bootstrap env.") Dec 23 15:01:47 for gods sake Dec 23 15:01:51 USE PASTEBIN Dec 23 15:02:01 :(, ok Dec 23 15:04:18 if you paste a load of text in IRC we get lag Dec 23 15:04:41 sorry, I'm not familiar with IRC Dec 23 15:05:26 http://wiki.meego.com/IRC_guidelines Dec 23 15:05:36 thx Dec 23 15:09:38 hey DawnFoster Dec 23 15:34:02 aries: find out the values of bootstrap and args Dec 23 15:34:58 yes Dec 23 15:35:34 http://pastebin.com/9eqLcuaU Dec 23 15:35:40 the args Dec 23 15:37:08 bootstrap: /var/cache/meego-bootstrap Dec 23 15:37:44 aries: I have a suspicion those are not the right args Dec 23 15:38:00 I'm not clear Dec 23 15:38:20 so the .ks file is not right? Dec 23 15:38:23 is that the correct directory, the one that contains your chroot? Dec 23 15:38:30 yes Dec 23 15:39:51 aries: the args you pastebinned seems to be the arguments to the program you're running Dec 23 15:40:02 not the args to the subprocess it is trying to open Dec 23 15:40:18 (it might be the same, I don't actually know) Dec 23 15:40:32 it is the arg of subprocess.call Dec 23 15:40:45 because I print it just near the call Dec 23 15:41:06 ok Dec 23 15:41:30 then you must make sure that /usr/bin/mic-image-creator exists _inside_ the chroot Dec 23 15:42:04 I find it suspicious that there is a lot of unmounting going on just before the error Dec 23 15:42:17 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 39754 2010-12-23 23:34 /var/cache/meego-bootstrap/usr/bin/mic-image-creator Dec 23 15:42:51 yes, why it does bind_unmount? Dec 23 15:43:20 I have no idea Dec 23 15:43:43 check the other paths in args Dec 23 15:43:51 if all exists, consider filing a bugreport Dec 23 15:44:35 ok Dec 23 16:38:12 anybody know anything about "meego & html5" ?? Dec 23 16:38:28 plans, progress, committments, anything? Dec 23 16:41:13 mwichmann, That's QML, right? Dec 23 16:41:49 mwichmann, I've heard that WRT is going to be quietly put out to pasture, and QML is the recommended "rich internet app" framework Dec 23 16:41:55 Unofficially Dec 23 16:42:12 But it's all rumours Dec 23 16:42:32 freeedrich|, Ping? Dec 23 16:42:33 oh, I see, we consider qml to be html5 (shows what I know) Dec 23 16:42:53 mwichmann, I really don't know much about it. I'm a poor 20th century programmer Dec 23 16:43:00 me too Dec 23 16:43:23 who needs more than C and Python, anyway? :) Dec 23 16:45:28 dneary, seems qml is also the recommanded way to build any ui for handset ux Dec 23 16:45:37 instead of QWidget Dec 23 16:45:41 which is a shame Dec 23 16:45:44 khertan, It looks pretty neat alright Dec 23 16:46:03 dneary, depends on what you call neat :) Dec 23 16:46:09 khertan, It's pretty much always een recommended to use Designer Dec 23 16:46:17 And then use .ui files Dec 23 16:46:23 At least in the Qt world Dec 23 16:47:00 I checked out the trivial QML examples, they seen really brittle, are there verification tools ? QMLint ? Dec 23 16:47:17 maybe but i see qml as an excuse to not adapt qwidget ui with a proper qstyle for handset Dec 23 16:47:59 berndhs, Good question Dec 23 16:48:24 berndhs, as its just javascript i suppose there is already some lint tools Dec 23 16:48:36 maybe require some adaptations Dec 23 16:49:20 khertan: so you're saying to find them and send the patch to Nokia :) Dec 23 16:51:06 berndhs, haha i ven't any interest in qml ... Dec 23 16:51:19 and i ve already to finish my own project :) Dec 23 16:51:52 well sure, I dont have interest either, but there may be no choice at some point Dec 23 16:52:06 berndhs, the choice to use an other framework Dec 23 16:52:10 or other plateform Dec 23 16:52:25 i already switch from gtk to qt for many project Dec 23 16:52:33 those are worse Dec 23 16:52:44 and before from cocoa to gtk :) Dec 23 16:53:22 ok the major problem of cocoa is that things is running only on apple os Dec 23 16:54:04 berndhs, and i waiting to see the widget they will made and if they will fit for all plateform Dec 23 16:54:17 yes so apple should stop supporting it :) Dec 23 16:54:55 but thats not really the point Dec 23 16:55:10 as the main problem i see with qml except that it s crappy javascript, is for the moment to have a "native" UI you must made one interface for each targetted device Dec 23 16:55:30 i'm just saying that dynamically created interpreted code needs verification Dec 23 16:56:00 berndhs, as python, or every language :) Dec 23 16:56:02 can't just say that the dynamically created code should be tested, that's not realistic Dec 23 16:56:24 i agree Dec 23 16:56:26 static checking is very valuable Dec 23 16:57:03 but my point of view is that if there isn't, maybe dev will not adopt qml, and then will disapear :) Dec 23 16:57:24 berndhs: I don't diagree but the professional software industry's already big on proper TDD. I still like my static types and compiler checking tho' Dec 23 16:58:02 true, but the professional software industry also realease some horrible products Dec 23 16:58:26 hey, it uses java (ducks and hides) Dec 23 16:58:37 Hi, i was developing an app which will require to access dictonary/synonyms. Is there any open source dictonay database? Dec 23 16:59:00 i am unable to find one. Dec 23 16:59:25 there is open source dictionnary databases ... but not free :) Dec 23 17:00:49 maybe I should ask in #qt-labs for the qmlint Dec 23 17:01:32 after xmas Dec 23 17:01:40 mwichmann: Yes, damn us with our billions of dollars of revenue a year. Dec 23 17:02:00 berndhs: FLOSS s/w can be pretty crappy too ;-) Dec 23 17:02:17 Jaffa: getting paid doesn't make one a professonal :P Dec 23 17:10:12 A master craftsman can make a beautiful work of art from the cheapest tools, and the rankest amateur may make a block of crap with the finest. Dec 23 17:11:50 GAN900: true, but in the marketplace, quantity has a quality all its own Dec 23 17:15:14 khertan: Ohk. can you suggest any paid one? Dec 23 17:15:32 just some french one Dec 23 17:15:33 sorry Dec 23 17:18:47 Ah, capacitive. Dec 23 17:18:52 ok.. no problem. thanks for help ;0 Dec 23 17:18:56 :) Dec 23 17:19:08 Some poor girl here just dropped here HTC 3 feet to the floor and turned it into a spiderweb. Dec 23 17:20:02 MohammadAG, ping Dec 23 17:23:40 Has anyone tried the MeeGO scripts to build the kernel for ARM? Dec 23 17:24:56 The build_kernel.sh script does not create a uImage Dec 23 17:25:09 And should problably exit with an error. Dec 23 17:28:28 lbt: ping Dec 23 17:34:05 oi MohammadAG Dec 23 17:34:21 or even alterego Dec 23 17:34:29 * MohammadAG scratches head (?) Dec 23 17:34:31 does qml work OOTB on maemo Dec 23 17:35:03 and another question specifically for MohammadAG - uboot, how simple is it working and how safe is it to get it installed Dec 23 17:35:07 yeah, with PR1.3 afaik, it does Dec 23 17:35:21 lcuk, very simple, and very safe Dec 23 17:35:32 though ali1234 and DocScrutinizer know more :) Dec 23 17:36:55 MohammadAG, is it documented with a nice writeup about installation and gotchas? Dec 23 17:37:34 If you're on the stock PR1.3 kernel, just get uboot-pr13, for kernel-power 46, get uboot-power Dec 23 17:37:41 zecke: pong Dec 23 17:38:01 works absolutely nice Dec 23 17:39:01 Um... gitorious.org lost its DNS registration? WTF? Dec 23 17:40:25 andyross, :) Dec 23 17:40:27 MohammadAG, hmm Dec 23 17:40:58 i dont like irc instructions that start with "just get" it does not help internet searching or wiki documentation Dec 23 17:41:20 and what prevents someone with normal kernel from getting uboot-power? Dec 23 17:41:27 and what happens if they do? Dec 23 17:41:30 (or vice versa) Dec 23 17:42:39 andyross: there was a leak, and the registrar got nervous Dec 23 17:43:01 A leak? Dec 23 17:43:49 oh nevermind Dec 23 17:44:28 andyross: really? Dec 23 17:45:36 Stskeeps: yes it says DNS service for this domain has expired with DNS Made Easy Dec 23 17:45:59 "DNS service for this domain has expired with DNS Made Easy". Doesn't look like a defacement, all my repos are failing to pull too... Dec 23 17:46:28 http://www.dnsstuff.com/tools/whois/?tool_id=66&token=&toolhandler_redirect=0&ip=gitorious.org Dec 23 17:46:40 Expiration Date:30-Dec-2011 14:37:06 UTC Dec 23 17:47:35 A mistake then? Ouch. Dec 23 17:47:38 so it looks like a DNS Made Easy screwup Dec 23 17:48:01 lcuk, well, since I'm the one who uploaded uboot-power, I can say installing it over stock kernel would simply install kernel-power along with it, no harm done Dec 23 17:48:10 as for uboot-pr13, I don't know if it checks Dec 23 17:48:21 but eitherway, the modules should exist for uboot-pr13 Dec 23 17:49:14 as for docs, http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/maemo/u-boot/ :) Dec 23 17:52:53 MohammadAG, "no harm done" Dec 23 17:53:08 people dont want to flip change kernels when unneeded? Dec 23 17:54:17 lcuk, sadly, they do, but this doesn't cause bricks/problems does it Dec 23 17:54:37 idk, it does cause things to stop working though doesnt it? Dec 23 17:55:07 nope, shouldn't Dec 23 17:55:15 if only maemo had dkms :/ Dec 23 17:55:48 MeeGo's starting to rock :D Dec 23 17:55:54 indeed it is :) Dec 23 18:04:27 lbt: is the info in the wiki still correct and you can create accounts to build.meego.com? Dec 23 18:04:58 build.pub.meego.com ... community one Dec 23 18:08:27 lbt: okay. can one access the packages available on the non-community build.meego.com? Dec 23 18:09:01 mmm I think anonymous browsing is open now Dec 23 18:10:25 lbt: my aim right now is to have access to the stuff that is mentioned on meego-commits, then look at the build log.. maybe attempt recompiling the packages with frame pointers or such... Dec 23 18:11:35 so you're looking at rebuilding meego ? Dec 23 18:12:15 lbt: I am looking for the build logs first, but yes.. maybe want to recompile some parts/all Dec 23 18:12:38 OK ... so I'm all for doing that.... but :) Dec 23 18:13:00 doing it on the community OBS means it has to be a community project Dec 23 18:13:19 lbt: fyi, still gives 401 Unauthorized access Dec 23 18:13:37 so it should have a clear goal and shouldn't just be a personal cpu-burning playground :) Dec 23 18:14:00 I think there's a port it to armv5el one Dec 23 18:14:02 berndhs: I created an account.. it failed.. but now it recognized me and I can browse packages on build.meego.com Dec 23 18:14:19 aha Dec 23 18:14:19 and of course, we want to see a non-ssssssse3 solution Dec 23 18:14:29 Missing an s Dec 23 18:15:45 lbt: well, the first goal is purely private... figuring out how easy the MeeGo distro can be forked (in case Intel/Nokia lose the interest). Having access to the packages is crucial... this seems to be there now (need to see how to use the obs cli now.. never did that before) Dec 23 18:16:02 zecke: srpms are fetchable Dec 23 18:16:13 == obs package contents Dec 23 18:16:18 very forkable Dec 23 18:16:35 lbt: the other is more useful. I want to add oprofile packages (community) and to be useful for arm i need to recompile with framepointers Dec 23 18:16:46 Stskeeps: besides that OBS should have package history Dec 23 18:17:09 and of course, enabling your account is a given :) Dec 23 18:17:13 zecke: agreed, but they are working on anon access.. Dec 23 18:17:50 still, in terms of forking Dec 23 18:18:23 zecke: done ... so building oprofile etc... please do .... but please be polite and don't try rebuilding meego in your home area :) Dec 23 18:19:03 zecke: #meego-arm for meego arm stuff too :) Dec 23 18:19:49 lbt: (rebuild) sure. this is why I wondered if I have access to the 'source' (with history) of OBS. Then I could build myself (and wait) Dec 23 18:20:05 is OBS building natively for ARM? Dec 23 18:20:36 zecke: uses a qemu binary emul chroot with cross compilers dumped in Dec 23 18:20:42 works quite nicely Dec 23 18:21:01 native compilers you mean Dec 23 18:21:22 'native' as in x86 to arm Dec 23 18:21:47 hm Dec 23 18:22:06 Stskeeps: that is that mic2-chroot? Dec 23 18:22:20 zecke: no Dec 23 18:22:21 i thought obs uses arm binaries Dec 23 18:24:35 thanks Dec 23 18:26:00 sivu: it does, but we dump in x86 binaries to accelerate some things that is bloody slow in emul Dec 23 18:26:15 ah, yes Dec 23 18:26:32 i was thinking about obs in general Dec 23 18:26:58 btw, ssd disks for the workers speed up building quite nicely :) Dec 23 18:53:26 does the 1.2 branch now include the new sgx driver for the n900? Dec 23 18:59:04 you mean the same drivers as in latest maemo5? Dec 23 19:00:35 I guess obs itself does not restrict to any arhictecture Dec 23 19:00:56 no Dec 23 19:00:59 oh, sorry wrong channel =) Dec 23 19:02:50 TomaszD, the vsync/tearing/graphics driver patches are being polished and reviewed at the moment prior to integration afaik Dec 23 19:26:38 which handsetish devices does meego run on which have hardware keyboard Dec 23 19:28:33 N900 :P Dec 23 19:29:10 * lcuk adapts question Dec 23 19:29:17 which handsetish devices could meego run on which have hardware keyboard Dec 23 19:31:53 would it run on OQO? Dec 23 19:34:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OQO#OQO_Model_Specifications Dec 23 19:34:32 the O2+ seems to not have gone into production which would have certainly been feasible, but what about the others? Dec 23 19:42:18 * lcuk heads to the bar Dec 23 19:46:01 * poutsi queues up Desekrator's Take us to the Pub Dec 23 19:46:33 poutsi, >>> #meego-bar Dec 23 19:46:50 so what's up with GPL3 being rejected (on meego-packaging ml)? Dec 23 19:47:02 does this really mean we will have some crufty old gcc? Dec 23 19:47:12 we're already using gcc 4.5 Dec 23 19:47:26 thiago: but, are we now going to revert to an older version? Dec 23 19:48:20 that would be stupid Dec 23 19:48:23 plainly stupid Dec 23 19:48:31 exactly Dec 23 19:48:37 not even apple does that Dec 23 19:48:40 they wrote a new compiler instead Dec 23 19:49:01 anyway, the toolchain isn't shipped on-device Dec 23 19:49:11 reasonable enough, thiago can you have one knocked up by time we get back in new year? Dec 23 19:49:15 GPLv3 "avoidance" is only for on-device material Dec 23 19:49:33 why is there avoidance though? Dec 23 19:49:40 * lcuk should read ML but mail client is so far away Dec 23 19:49:58 does qt have its own compiler built in? Dec 23 19:50:08 i know it has at least js one Dec 23 19:50:11 ok, so we will have the choice of "modern gcc" on build infra, no gcc at all on-device. that would be ok Dec 23 19:50:47 and modern gcc available in some "I don't care" repository for devices (esp. netbooks) as well ;-) Dec 23 19:51:22 thiago, gcc is available directly from official mirror though and can be a dependency of any app? Dec 23 19:51:41 lcuk: gpl3 is unpopular because it may or may not be incompatible with some platsec stuff Dec 23 19:51:55 but for compiler, that won't matter Dec 23 19:52:15 hm Dec 23 19:52:25 platsec for meegocom open system? Dec 23 19:52:38 yes, it's supposed to have platsec as well Dec 23 19:53:07 as said on mailing list, drm is must at least for tv setup. and it's needed for phones as well Dec 23 19:53:40 though I don't think 1.2 has this "controlled" boot sequence yet Dec 23 19:54:20 lcuk: but it's not on-device Dec 23 19:54:25 anyhow, stuff in meego that gous on devices has to be compatible with platsec as well, otherwise people would be forking it Dec 23 19:54:31 the problem with on-device stuff is platsec, DRM, installations, etc. Dec 23 19:54:41 some ODMs will not like you replacing their OS installation Dec 23 19:55:34 villev: usually gcc isnt shipped as part of device so 4.5 is fine Dec 23 19:55:35 are there any killer apps using gpl3 yet? Dec 23 19:55:58 ok, thanks for the heads up Stskeeps Dec 23 19:56:05 lcuk: bash, coreutils ;) Dec 23 19:56:06 no, just a couple of killer libs Dec 23 19:56:09 like libsmbclient Dec 23 19:56:31 it was the biggest stressor for KDE some 3 years ago, before Qt went GPLv3 Dec 23 19:56:54 so qt is gpl3? Dec 23 19:57:02 lgplv2.1 and gplv3 Dec 23 19:57:16 and commercial Dec 23 19:57:24 lcuk: there is some bloggage about meego platsec: https://www.nixuopen.org/blog/2010/11/developing-for-meego-part-2/ Dec 23 19:57:29 what if an app were released as gpl3 and was then published to app store? Dec 23 19:57:51 lcuk: that implies that the app store accepted GPLv3 Dec 23 19:58:22 and, drm is not mandatory in app stores Dec 23 19:58:40 depends on the app store Dec 23 19:58:56 anyway, gplv3 software that you can install from 3rdparties means you can always replace it Dec 23 19:58:59 ok, it might be in apple one Dec 23 19:59:08 so the "installation instructions" clause of GPLv3 is not a problem Dec 23 19:59:33 the problem, like I said, is about what comes on-device and may not be replaceable Dec 23 20:00:29 is "parallel installation" ok for replacement? Dec 23 20:01:00 in gpl3 sense. I mean, if there is "system" bash that can't be replaced but you can compile and install your own bash, is it a problem? Dec 23 20:01:55 I'd have to re-read it, but considering its intent (TiVo), I doubt it Dec 23 20:09:25 thiago, technically since the qt components are multi license, is the license implicitely written into the written binary to indicate and allow somebody to know which is in use? Dec 23 20:09:43 (or onto the disk at the required location) Dec 23 20:10:10 the question is: "do you accept the LGPLv2.1 or GPLv3" Dec 23 20:10:22 you can tell if the answer was "yes" or "no" Dec 23 20:10:25 not which Dec 23 20:10:28 quistion to end user? Dec 23 20:10:36 it's an "or" question Dec 23 20:10:52 question even Dec 23 20:11:11 no Dec 23 20:11:33 so how could someone who picks up the device know which variation is in use? Dec 23 20:11:49 considering if they did a binary diff with the gpl3 version it would come out the same Dec 23 20:12:07 you can use "strings" to find out if the license accepted was one of the two Open Source ones Dec 23 20:12:11 not which one Dec 23 20:12:32 right, so there is a difference in specific location on disk? Dec 23 20:12:56 or will "strings" display "this is lgplv2 or gpl3" Dec 23 20:13:11 implying the question is still open Dec 23 20:13:42 it will display "OpenSource" Dec 23 20:14:02 they are both open source? Dec 23 20:15:06 lgpl and gpl are open source Dec 23 20:15:22 hence your answer does not indicate which license is the primary one in use Dec 23 20:17:08 * lcuk heads for #qt to ask some more licensy questions Dec 23 20:26:54 hello Dec 23 20:46:10 just installed meego on my laptop, that’s impressive how fast it boots (3 sec on my intel ssd) \o/ Dec 23 20:46:18 how guys did you do that Dec 23 20:46:56 it seems slower to get past the bios part Dec 23 20:47:07 what ssd, btw? Dec 23 20:47:11 model? Dec 23 20:47:19 intel x25-m afaik Dec 23 20:47:36 that's nice Dec 23 20:47:42 I should try the cheap one someday :) Dec 23 20:48:16 I wonder if btrfs is responsible for this Dec 23 20:48:32 even with systemd my mandriva needs 10s (which is already nice) Dec 23 20:48:44 the key is not to load stuff Dec 23 20:48:51 shikamaru_: it is not one single thing that does this Dec 23 20:49:08 and systemd will not automagically speed up boot Dec 23 20:49:13 not newfangled init systems. if you only have one or two daemons to load, no need for anything more complex than sysvinit Dec 23 20:49:17 well, I’m using awesome as window manager, not a heavy thing like gnome or kde Dec 23 20:49:23 (if its using all the same init scripts and stuff, it will tend to be slightly slower) Dec 23 20:50:09 yes, everything’s not migrated to systemd but still, that’s incredible stuff :) Dec 23 20:50:17 hmm, I did not know Mandriva shipped with systemd.. got info on this Dec 23 20:50:18 ? Dec 23 20:50:44 jonnor: well, it’s available in cooker since about two or three months :) Dec 23 20:52:16 anyway, it seems like I couldn’t sync meego with itself (on the n900) :) Dec 23 20:52:27 from the UI it looks like syncevolution right ? Dec 23 20:53:27 (doesn’t work with maemo either, but well, it has never worked over bluetooth for me :/, only syncml-ds-tool over usb) Dec 23 22:45:25 sheesh... Dec 23 22:46:15 lbt: btw our guys now even got maemo support in tieto obs to work. I suspect you had your share in this. thanks :) Dec 23 22:46:31 :) Dec 23 22:46:32 meh, ia32 isn't the same as a centrino Dec 23 22:46:44 * MohammadAG curses PAE, looks for meego-compatible devices Dec 23 22:46:47 * lbt is just screaming at his machine Dec 23 22:46:51 AAAARRRRGGGGGG Dec 23 22:47:09 reading the -dev and -packaging ml Dec 23 22:47:14 lbt, save your voice, I found screaming doesn't usually help Dec 23 22:47:24 Jaffa: you saw this ... Dec 23 22:47:34 "we don't want to fill in forms" Dec 23 22:47:59 dm8tbr: oh, our obs is already usable? :) Dec 23 22:48:17 Aard: usable as in slooowww :) Dec 23 22:48:50 Aard: it's still the craptacular P4 frankenbox in my cubicle. but it's a start Dec 23 22:48:52 slow as in obs-slow, or did you mess something up? :) Dec 23 22:49:12 oh, great, not everything meego-related will build on a p4 :) Dec 23 22:49:39 Aard: I can hook you up with an account if you want to get the 'experience' first hand ;) Dec 23 22:50:42 well, I'd like to test maemo builds, and as I don't think cobs will allow me to... ;) Dec 23 22:56:32 maemo obs will Dec 23 22:56:51 lbt: does maemo obs do meego builds as well? ;) Dec 23 22:56:56 yes Dec 23 22:57:05 but we've not updated it for a bit Dec 23 22:57:26 oh, didn't know that. interesting. Dec 23 22:59:32 yep Dec 23 23:00:03 the OBS install badly needs updating though Dec 23 23:00:35 can give you an account if you like Dec 23 23:02:43 maemo obs install? Dec 23 23:02:51 yes please Dec 23 23:02:51 yes Dec 23 23:03:11 other people collect christmas cards, I'm collecting obs accounts ;) Dec 24 00:13:33 Is http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/libqttracker the right API for accessing the "Tracker System" in Meego? Dec 24 00:14:09 (even though it's Maemo application framework) Dec 24 00:14:24 and is there an equivalent for Meego? Dec 24 00:15:38 oh that's right, I have IRC open Dec 24 00:16:24 http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-commits/2010-July/001210.html i guess there's a separate one for meego... Dec 24 00:33:30 npm: what makes you think they are different? Dec 24 00:40:16 * CosmoHill starts getting really annoyed with forum spam Dec 24 00:44:19 morning Dec 24 00:44:21 hey Dec 24 00:44:28 damn you beat me to the greeting Dec 24 00:44:41 :p Dec 24 00:44:43 morning 2 Dec 24 00:50:24 * lcuk drunk lots of Guinness tonight Dec 24 00:51:04 I'm been banning people left right and centre on the forums I hang out on Dec 24 00:52:02 eek Dec 24 00:52:09 thats not christmasy Dec 24 00:52:18 was nice in bar i was in Dec 24 00:52:21 it's like, 25 so far Dec 24 00:52:34 since yesterday... Dec 24 00:52:35 what are they saing Dec 24 00:52:37 y Dec 24 00:52:39 spam Dec 24 00:52:58 bed Dec 24 00:53:42 yes, I'm in one Dec 24 00:54:20 spam nn lbt Dec 24 00:54:27 -spam Dec 24 01:15:45 cyas **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Dec 24 01:26:45 2010 Dec 24 01:58:47 if anybody has comments on http://code.google.com/p/ytd-meego/wiki/CitizenJournalismWithYoutubeDirectForMeego please let me know **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Dec 24 02:59:58 2010