**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Dec 30 02:59:58 2010 Dec 30 05:15:16 ... Dec 30 08:04:30 Hey Dec 30 10:03:36 I need to compile a kernel module. which package will give me the build tools? Dec 30 10:04:20 good morning meegoists Dec 30 10:16:19 Venemo_N900: morning Dec 30 10:17:03 voyager_za: unfortunately I'm not familiar with which packages you'll need Dec 30 10:17:55 voyager_za: probably you'll need gcc, make, and kernel-devel, plus the -devel packages for any other lib it needs Dec 30 10:18:00 No problem - I think it's rpmdevtools Dec 30 10:18:15 but we'll see... Dec 30 10:18:21 voyager_za: that is only if you want to package it too Dec 30 10:19:07 voyager_za: so if you wanna make an rpm from it too, you'll need rpmdevtools Dec 30 10:20:01 It's a bit annoying - on the same device, Ubuntu netbook picks up the wifi automagically, but Meego doesn't, and modprobing the same module on the Meego side doesn't seem to work. Dec 30 10:20:31 maybe the module isn't in MeeGo's kernel (yet?) Dec 30 10:20:37 Venemo_N900: I think I'll only use the compiler stuff, not the actual rpm part. Dec 30 10:20:49 I suggest you to make a bugreport for that Dec 30 10:21:13 Venemo_N900: the module is in staging in Meego. I'm now going to build it from source as recommended by the interwebs Dec 30 10:21:15 otherwise, you need gcc and make obviously, plus kernel-devel for the kernel's headers Dec 30 10:37:27 voyager_za: btw, which device? Dec 30 10:41:46 voyager_za: what kind of wifi do you have in your device ? Dec 30 10:43:31 obit_sweden: Network controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. Device 8172 (rev 10) Dec 30 10:43:39 I've written small wifi instructions for S10-3t broadcom, I bet that you can use that for getting needed build tools setup http://rainisto.com/wiki/index.php?title=MeegoS10-3t Dec 30 10:43:43 on Ubuntu the module used is r8192e_pci Dec 30 10:43:56 jonni: thanks. Dec 30 10:45:11 voyager_za: hah! I have 8191se, and I also have trouble with the Linux driver! Dec 30 10:45:12 when filing a bug report, is Build Image just the filename of the .img file? Dec 30 10:45:52 voyager_za: If you got the source just follow the above link from jonni and build and install as with the broadcom driver Dec 30 10:48:27 obit_sweden: will do Dec 30 10:48:53 jonni: Gigabyte Q1000C Dec 30 11:01:21 Am I wrong in assuming that the IVI UX can work on a Netbook? Dec 30 11:07:12 voyager_za: it'll probably work Dec 30 11:08:11 http://wiki.meego.com/Installing_MeeGo_on_the_Gigabyte_Q1000C <-- Work in progress Dec 30 11:50:11 voyager_za: I've tried IVT on a iei panelpc with atom n270 and it works like a charm 'except some initial problems with touchscreen driver' Dec 30 11:59:54 Tried easystroke and it works really well for touchscreen device where you want to enable gestures for existing applications I've added a wiki for anyone interested Dec 30 12:19:03 are there existing builds for non-64bit x86 cpus? Dec 30 12:20:04 * russell-- has a classmate pc, looking for a distribution that will fit on its 2gig SSD Dec 30 12:21:22 core2 and ssse3 needed Dec 30 12:21:55 there aren't any 64bit builds are there? Dec 30 12:22:09 not afaik Dec 30 12:22:57 however classmate PC is celeron M, this cannot run meego Dec 30 12:23:03 the 1.1 image i just downloaded complained that my cpu wasn't 64bit Dec 30 12:28:51 russell--, from repo.meego.com? Dec 30 12:28:55 is there an easy way to build everything from scratch/source, like openwrt? Dec 30 12:29:41 russell--: afaik it should work on x86. are you sure you downloaded the correct image? Dec 30 12:29:43 http://meego.com/downloads/releases/1.1/meego-v1.1-netbooks Dec 30 12:30:24 rather: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.1/netbook/images/meego-netbook-ia32/meego-netbook-ia32-1.1.img Dec 30 12:30:55 russell--, odd... what was the exact error message? Dec 30 12:31:32 on ubuntu, i used the startup disk creator, pointed at the meego image and booted from that Dec 30 12:31:50 i'll try it again Dec 30 12:32:26 Does that normally work for non-Ubuntu distro images? Dec 30 12:32:35 i think so Dec 30 12:33:16 hum it depends Dec 30 12:33:32 just write meego image directly Dec 30 12:33:34 I've seen a lot of failures with the ubuntu USB tools Dec 30 12:33:54 I've always used unetbootin so I have no clue with startup disk creator. And I've also never used MeeGo on x86 :p Dec 30 12:34:13 it will only works if you have a FAT formatted USB disk and you use an ISO Dec 30 12:34:19 Stskeeps: write the image to the usb storage? Dec 30 12:34:25 yes Dec 30 12:34:35 Stskeeps: yep Dec 30 12:34:46 dd if=img of=/dev/sdb style? Dec 30 12:35:01 or use the image-writer script Dec 30 12:35:02 right, check meego.com for instructions Dec 30 12:35:10 okay, cool Dec 30 12:38:32 hey CosmoHill Dec 30 12:38:38 hey Termana Dec 30 12:40:12 http://thenokiablog.com/2010/12/29/nokia-tablet-android-3/ Dec 30 12:40:32 RST38h: honestly, do you believe that? Dec 30 12:40:40 I do not know. Dec 30 12:41:45 Given the recent changes in the Nokia's corporate governance structure and the lack of good news about Meego, I am inclined to treat this as a possibility Dec 30 12:42:24 nokia tablet with android - that's cobblers Dec 30 12:42:53 Is there Meego Tablet Edition that can be used in a tablet right now? Dec 30 12:42:57 I can see Nokia using Windows, MeeGo or Symbian, but not Android Dec 30 12:43:19 is there meego handset edition that can be used on a handset right now? Dec 30 12:43:27 ali: right. Dec 30 12:43:32 hehe Dec 30 12:43:37 :) Dec 30 12:44:03 either the handset or the netbook ux can be run on tablets Dec 30 12:44:24 Venemo: Are these two ready for production devices? Dec 30 12:45:17 Nokia's current marketing position is terrible, especially in the US. If this were true, I don't think it would be good for Nokia, especially because they would be backpeddling from earlier statements on Android Dec 30 12:45:24 I could see the blog site headlines now Dec 30 12:45:44 RST38h: no. Dec 30 12:45:57 Termana: agreed Dec 30 12:46:00 Anyways, just imagine yourself a top Nokia cheese for a second. Looking at the marketplace being quickly filled with non-Nokia handsets and tablets Dec 30 12:46:28 Knowing that your software platform won't be ready for at least 6 months, what would you do? Dec 30 12:47:27 you are assuming that nokia isn't cooking something up in private Dec 30 12:48:08 RST38h: agreed, but that concerns the smartphone sales, and that's not where Nokia makes the bucks. Dec 30 12:48:17 ali: I am assuming that based on the currently disclosed information about Nokia Meego device readiness (i.e. fall 2011) Dec 30 12:48:24 RST38h, what are you talking about? They weren't (and mostly like aren't at the moment) planing to use normal MeeGo in their next device anyway. Dec 30 12:48:30 meego might not be ready for 6 months, it doesn't mean that "maemo-6-harmattan-with-meego-bits" won't be ready Dec 30 12:48:30 likely* Dec 30 12:48:54 Termana: It does not matter which meego you are talking about, the "real" one or the Maeblin one Dec 30 12:49:02 RST38h: hmm, where is that disclosed? Dec 30 12:49:03 Sorry, Harmattan Dec 30 12:50:02 ali: Well, if I remember correctly, various Nokia people promised a usable Meego Handset on the N900 in the spring and some Meego device in the fall Dec 30 12:50:27 ali: As I said before, it does not matter whether the device runs real Meego or Harmattan, as it is still in the fall. Dec 30 12:50:30 heh, nokia people say stuff like that all the time :) Dec 30 12:50:54 "some meego device" != "some harmattan device" anyway Dec 30 12:51:00 ali: So far, I have not seen any of them to err on the pessimistic side though Dec 30 12:51:15 ali: Sorry, what makes you think it is not Harmattan? Dec 30 12:51:24 what? Dec 30 12:51:49 if i learned anything, it's that you can't assume *anything* about what nokia people say Dec 30 12:51:55 RST38h, let's assume your right about the time frame. Why not just release the Harmattan device earlier instead of moving the goal post completely and start pushing Android Dec 30 12:51:58 ? Dec 30 12:51:59 ali: That too Dec 30 12:52:01 if they say "meego device in fall 2011" then they mean meego, and not harmattan Dec 30 12:52:10 so this statement says nothing about harmattan Dec 30 12:52:19 Termana: I do not know why Harmattan thingie is not out yet Dec 30 12:52:28 ali: Harmattan is marketed as meego, sorry Dec 30 12:52:43 ali: I know it is not, you know it is not, but to marketing it is Meego, period. Dec 30 12:53:17 RST38h: Where are you seeing it marketed? Dec 30 12:53:18 Termana: But, again, the reasons do not matter. Dec 30 12:53:21 well, that's an assumption i don't agree with Dec 30 12:53:35 RST38h: harmattan is basically maemo base os plus meego handset ux afaik. Dec 30 12:54:00 i thought it was the other way around, meego core with a custom UX Dec 30 12:54:48 RST38h, anyone that would have said "meego device in fall 2011" would have been saying it to existing Maemo, or MeeGo userbase and realised the difference between saying MeeGo Harmattan or Harmattan and just MeeGo Dec 30 12:55:00 ali1234, nope Dec 30 12:55:01 leinir: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=53551 Dec 30 12:55:22 leinir: Or any other post by Quim saying that Harmattan => Meego Harmattan Dec 30 12:55:47 Venemo_N900, ali1234 - plus I actually think they have said they won't use the Handset UX anymore, that it will be custom. Dec 30 12:55:47 Venemo: Once again: Dec 30 12:55:50 anyways you should not speculate :) Dec 30 12:55:55 Right, thanks Dec 30 12:56:09 Venemo: It does not matter if the next device is Harmattan or Meego or Meego Harmattan Dec 30 12:56:36 Termana: they said they'd use the handset ux with some closed-source apps Dec 30 12:56:41 Venemo: All that matters is that it is not likely to appear until 3Q2011, save for some miracle Dec 30 12:56:58 yeah I know Dec 30 12:57:23 RST38h, based on what? An interpretation of something with seemingly no source? :p Dec 30 12:57:26 Venemo: So, if you were facing 6-9 months of having to stick to Symbian handsets, while everyone is laughing at you Dec 30 12:57:38 until then, they'll keep pushing symbian^whatever, yeah... Dec 30 12:57:46 Venemo: What would you do? As a business person, not as an engineer or an OSS advocate Dec 30 12:57:59 anyway RST38h, I get your point Dec 30 12:58:25 Good. Now I see why I am starting to treat that Android/WP7/etc bullshit seriously? Dec 30 12:58:33 s/I/you Dec 30 12:58:37 yeah... Dec 30 12:58:49 let's hope that these Nokia Android tablets will be able to run MeeGo at a later date Dec 30 12:59:29 Yea, right... Dec 30 13:00:36 if not, that'll be a double fail then Dec 30 13:00:45 RST38h, see what you've done? Now you've turned Venemo_N900 into a lunatic! :p Not only does he think Nokia is going to make Android tablets, but he also thinks they'll be upgradeable to MeeGo Dec 30 13:00:54 :p Dec 30 13:01:01 is there any command to get the package that contains a specific file? Dec 30 13:01:02 Termana: On to TMO! =) Dec 30 13:01:34 btw people can install MeeGo to Archos's android tablets too. Dec 30 13:02:50 Termana: I do not think that they'll make android tablets, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did. Dec 30 13:04:43 how about those super cheap chinese android tablers (160 euro or so)... is there any success getting meego running on those yet? Dec 30 13:06:43 v_zaitsev: I haven't heard. although Archos isn't too expensive either (200 euros) Dec 30 13:08:00 wouldn't be surprised if the hardware was basically the same Dec 30 13:09:13 hehe, yeah Dec 30 13:09:48 and I wouldn't be surprised if the chinese ones broke after a few months of use Dec 30 13:10:58 now i found one for 109 eur Dec 30 13:12:02 hey, it kind of works! Dec 30 13:13:19 :D Dec 30 13:15:20 v_zaitsev: those chinese things can't even run android 2.0 Dec 30 13:17:06 http://www.lightinthebox.com/Android2-1-Tablet-MID-7--TFT-Touch-Screen-Track-Ball-ARM-11-RK2818-600MHZ-DDR2-256MB-2G-Wifi-Gsensor-M98A1137PC06-_p162529.html Dec 30 13:17:19 there has to be a serious catch, it's so cheap, but it does seem to run 2.1 Dec 30 13:18:04 no suspend on lid close Dec 30 13:19:28 v_zaitsev, yes, the catch is it is a piece of garbage Dec 30 13:19:38 most likely yes :) Dec 30 13:19:58 are the archoes devices the cheapest non-garbage devices around ? Dec 30 13:22:29 v_zaitsev: ARM11? Dec 30 13:22:36 that's gotta hurt... Dec 30 13:22:44 I am without knowledge or information sufficient to form a belief about your question Dec 30 13:22:49 people criticise Symbian devices for running on ARM11 Dec 30 13:22:55 which people? Dec 30 13:23:07 my C7 is MUCH faster than my N900... Dec 30 13:23:22 and the battery lasts about 10x longer too Dec 30 13:23:26 Symbian just sucks anyway, it doesn't need an ARM11 processor to prove that Dec 30 13:24:07 ali1234: I'm still testing how long the battery lasts on the C7 Dec 30 13:24:09 4 days and counting now Dec 30 13:24:21 two out of six bars gone, four left Dec 30 13:25:23 thiagoss: is it idling? Dec 30 13:25:40 tab fail :p Dec 30 13:25:41 yes Dec 30 13:25:43 idling Dec 30 13:25:48 sorry that was for thiago_home Dec 30 13:25:54 on 2G, but with the Big Clock screensaver Dec 30 13:26:03 there, easier to find me now :-) Dec 30 13:26:13 seems all those cheap china tablets are using ARM11 from one or other neverheard mfg Dec 30 13:26:39 actually the battery performance in a practical usecase would be more interesting Dec 30 13:26:51 idling *is* the practical usecase Dec 30 13:26:57 practical use case, like idling in irc Dec 30 13:27:25 v_zaitsev, unfortunately IRC sucks the living day lights out of anything :p Dec 30 13:27:54 my n900 can't even "idle" for 24 hours Dec 30 13:27:59 Batteries AND Humans Dec 30 13:28:08 ali1234: mine can! Dec 30 13:28:15 my N900 does idle for 24 hours Dec 30 13:28:15 and i don't even have email set up on it so it's not like it's doing anything Dec 30 13:28:15 my n900 idles just fine 2-3 days, but if i forget IRC on, then no chance :) Dec 30 13:28:18 ali1234, mine could do that fine too Dec 30 13:28:21 no SIM in it either so it's not 3G Dec 30 13:28:30 it's on for the same 4 days Dec 30 13:28:48 ali1234: my N900 can idle in dual mode for about 2-3 days Dec 30 13:29:03 N900 idle != C7 idle Dec 30 13:29:12 * thiago never lets it idle on 3G Dec 30 13:29:12 right Dec 30 13:29:22 on the C7 i have MfE mail and calendar syncing every 5 minutes all day on 3G, and it lasts for 4-5 days without charging Dec 30 13:29:22 oh, wait, I plugged it to USB 3 days ago Dec 30 13:29:23 It is not even 3G to blame Dec 30 13:29:37 but it's on the lowest green level now Dec 30 13:29:41 thiago: How many messaging accounts doyou have enabled? Dec 30 13:29:42 ali1234: sounds nice Dec 30 13:29:55 RST38h: one MfE, syncs on wifi only Dec 30 13:29:59 RST38h: there's no WiFi here Dec 30 13:30:09 thiago: Is your WiFi connection up? Dec 30 13:30:15 no wifi here Dec 30 13:30:17 when idling, I disable messaging and stuff like that Dec 30 13:30:35 thiago: What applets do you have at your desktop? Dec 30 13:30:37 it lasts 36 hours when it does sync, with alarms ringing a couple of times per day Dec 30 13:30:50 RST38h: calendar, music player, traffic meter Dec 30 13:31:06 thiago: Is music player idle all that time? Dec 30 13:31:13 yes Dec 30 13:31:34 thiago: Must be the traffic meter then Dec 30 13:31:37 I did use the photo viewer on both devices Dec 30 13:31:45 RST38h: 36 hours too little? Dec 30 13:31:48 On the other hand, 36-hour idle is pretty normal for N900 Dec 30 13:32:04 People did 48 hours (2 days) Dec 30 13:32:40 my N800 can also go for 4-5 days on wifi with the rss reader thing running Dec 30 13:32:49 it's also ARM11 Dec 30 13:32:59 the N900 transmits a lot of data on the background Dec 30 13:33:02 Yes, N8x0 was good at it Dec 30 13:33:13 my bill this month is over 350 € Dec 30 13:33:15 thiago: Not when your connection is down, as you reported Dec 30 13:33:18 mine has no SIM in it Dec 30 13:33:30 yes, but as soon as you connect, it transmits a lot of junk Dec 30 13:33:36 * RST38h only connects cellular data when required Dec 30 13:33:39 even when it's not syncing my accounts, it's transmitting something Dec 30 13:33:53 thiago: Not here Dec 30 13:33:56 and since the netstat tool that comes with it is crap, I don't know what process it is Dec 30 13:34:11 all hail MeeGo for choosing coreutils Dec 30 13:34:18 gone be busybox! Dec 30 13:34:18 thiago: all it does is connecting messaging accounts and checking for mail Dec 30 13:34:26 and check for updates Dec 30 13:34:39 My guess is that you are looking at the Exchange crap =) Dec 30 13:34:47 yea but update checks are once a day Dec 30 13:35:23 RST38h: could be Dec 30 13:35:32 netstat does show some unknown ports Dec 30 13:35:36 not exchange's 443 Dec 30 13:37:09 maybe it's become part of a zombie farm ;) Dec 30 13:37:25 Well, that farm is known as Skype but he has no Skype account Dec 30 13:37:49 Skype actually takes the second place in powertop after the kernel itself Dec 30 13:38:23 that's probably why mine lasts such a short time then Dec 30 13:38:31 skype is the only thing i use the n900 for now Dec 30 13:38:42 since the linux desktop client is a complete failure Dec 30 14:17:51 what about meego ? Dec 30 16:01:36 * ucomesdag is away: Away Dec 30 16:01:53 * ucomesdag is away: having lunch Dec 30 16:12:44 ucomesdag: I don't think we need to know your awaymessage this way Dec 30 17:23:02 * voyager_za has wifi but Connection Manager is very unhappy Dec 30 17:48:10 does anyone know how to make a footnote on the meego wiki (or a reference)? Dec 30 17:54:25 voyager_za: http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10275 Dec 30 18:02:44 hi! (hope this is the right place for this question) I'm thinking about a new phone, and want to use that as an excuse to get a meego-based phone :) is the n900 the best supported option at this point? is there something else I should consider? Dec 30 18:03:23 yes Dec 30 18:03:34 thanks hena! Dec 30 18:04:09 it's the only one Dec 30 18:04:12 i think Dec 30 18:04:54 on the supported hardware page, there was mention of some intel platform...I'm assuming that hasn't matured into an actual product yet, but that's what prompted the question Dec 30 18:25:36 hardbop200: basically all you need to know is that the N900 is barely usable with maemo, let alone meego, and that intel platform is a developer device and costs a few thousand dollars Dec 30 18:26:40 hardbop200: try out a n900 in person before buying Dec 30 18:27:13 also, the N900 is probably never going to get the "real" nokia/meego UX Dec 30 18:27:18 ali1234: barely usable is a little harsh :P Dec 30 18:27:30 ali1234: "quirky" or "geeky" might be fair Dec 30 18:27:41 if by "quicky" you mean "glitchy" Dec 30 18:27:47 *quirky Dec 30 18:27:48 ali1234: please explain barely usable Dec 30 18:28:13 ali1234: it works fine for me! Dec 30 18:29:14 you seriously want me to list all the things that are bad about maemo on the n900? just go to BMO and look at all the "WONTFIX" bugs Dec 30 18:29:34 ali1234: Ditto Venemo. Not for everyone, but certainly usable (and, I found more usable than a "mainstream" OS like Symbian) Dec 30 18:29:49 hardbop200: MeeGo is not really ready yet for consumers. If you want a MeeGo device, check in a few months. if you want the N900, that is good, but you'll have to wait for MeeGo to become mature. Dec 30 18:30:10 ali1234: so your personal opinion is that you don't like it. that doesn't mean that it is barely usable Dec 30 18:30:28 ali1234: if you really think that way, buy an iPhone and bugger off Dec 30 18:30:31 the real bad ones for me are: calendar alerts that fire exactly 24 hours late, the total uselessness of the built in email client, the slowness of the web browser, the *extreme* slowness of the app manager Dec 30 18:31:16 well then your device is faulty. :O I haven't seen any of those, although I agree with the app manager being crap. Dec 30 18:31:29 He can buy a netbook and install Meego Netbook on it Dec 30 18:31:38 right. Dec 30 18:31:48 and then there's the whole way updates work on it ie you have to wipe the device everytime there is a large update Dec 30 18:31:48 netbook is currently what's usable of MeeGO Dec 30 18:31:58 the e-mail client is exasperatingly slow, it makes me want to pitch the device out of the window like only symbian used to make me want to do Dec 30 18:32:07 Robot101: worksforme Dec 30 18:32:19 i'm not talking about meego, i'm talking about maemo... thing is, meego handset is currently even worse Dec 30 18:32:20 Actually I think there is a fix formodest slowness Dec 30 18:32:39 Some data needs ot be cleared afaik Dec 30 18:32:50 Venemo: I've got inboxes of 10,000s of messages, it takes minutes to display mails Dec 30 18:32:51 Jaffa: thanks Dec 30 18:33:00 (downloads all the headers every time too) Dec 30 18:33:03 ali1234: seems like you don't like meamo or meego Dec 30 18:33:19 Have you considered moving stuff away fromyour inboxes? :) Dec 30 18:33:37 I mean, even PINE has some trouble opening huge inboxes, locally Dec 30 18:33:38 meamo is a new os btw Dec 30 18:33:52 moving stuff out of the inbox doesn't help, just fyi Dec 30 18:34:26 What kind of mail server are you running against ? Dec 30 18:34:40 imap Dec 30 18:34:45 Oh and btw, MOdest *really* does not likePOP3, just in case Dec 30 18:34:52 imap works fine for me Dec 30 18:35:36 Absolutely hates pop3, very slow with it, cannot figure out which messages are sitll in the inbox, and generally hung on pop3 accounts until PR1.2 or so Dec 30 18:35:42 Robot101: right. 10 000's of messages I haven't tried :) Dec 30 18:36:14 it should just cache the headers and grab the new ones Dec 30 18:36:14 that sounds like my experience with imap Dec 30 18:36:24 is just buggy/incomplete IMAP implementation Dec 30 18:36:37 imap works formeat least with gmail Dec 30 18:38:23 well I have 2 imap and 1 pop3 accounts which work well. but as I said, I don't have 10000's of messages on either, so... Dec 30 18:39:06 10k inbox is a bad idea anyway Dec 30 18:39:13 agreed RST38h Dec 30 18:39:36 I keep all my email there to search :P Dec 30 18:39:44 I don't want advice on how to arrange my e-mail, I want an e-mail client that works Dec 30 18:39:58 Claws. Dec 30 18:40:13 But I am not sure it will like 10k inbox either. Hell, nothing will. Dec 30 18:42:49 srsly how do you expect a 600 MHz ARM machine to be able to handle 10000s of emails? Dec 30 18:43:04 it is not the CPU bottleneck Dec 30 18:43:20 You 90MHz machine will handle them just fine Dec 30 18:43:32 I'm not so sure about it Dec 30 18:43:58 Had big mailboxes with 90MHz Pentium running FreeBSD, it worked Dec 30 18:44:22 depends a lot on your definition of "handle" I guess Dec 30 18:44:24 You get killed by memory, or flash, or network performance though Dec 30 18:44:47 poutsi: "Handle" as in open/show headers/let navigate/search Dec 30 18:45:29 yeah, that was directed more at venamo :) Dec 30 18:46:57 ali1234: It hasn't required a reflash for an OS update since Maemo 4 in 2008 Dec 30 18:48:23 i had to reflash on the official release, and pr 1.1 and pr 1.2 Dec 30 19:01:42 ali1234: If you don't have enough disk space you can either uninstall stuff or reflash. That's why there's now a strict QA requirement for usage of the rootfs for applications in Extras and Ovi. Of course, applications in Extras-devel or -testing may not conform to that QA standard, YMMV, but it's expected that if you enable those you're willing to live with the consequences (and the responsibility to participate in the QA process) Dec 30 19:10:28 my pandaboard just went from estimated delivery of 06.01.11 to 24.03.11. I ordered in November Dec 30 19:10:46 :/ Dec 30 19:10:55 and you were so happy that you'll get it soon Dec 30 19:10:56 anyone know what is happening with the 4-5 boards contributed to the project? Dec 30 19:15:48 Huomenta. If I install MeeGo 1.1 Netbook on IdeaPad and don't take the Chrome version, do I get Firefox or Fennec instead? Or do I get Firefox/Fennec either way? I prefer Firefox but assume I can yum install it easily. Dec 30 19:16:30 Alison_Chaiken: i guess you get chromium Dec 30 19:17:06 Oh well, Stskeeps, I'll just get chromium then and use it to install Firefox! Thanks. Dec 30 19:25:54 Jaffa: so in other words if you have lots of stuff installed, you either have to uninstall it and then reinstall it after upgrading, or reflash, and then reinstall everything Dec 30 19:26:24 ali1234: no. Dec 30 19:26:58 well the only alternative is to not upgrade Dec 30 19:28:38 ali1234: again, no. Dec 30 19:29:57 there have also been packages that block upgrading, no matter how much disk space is free Dec 30 19:30:04 not sure if any of them actually made it to extras though Dec 30 19:34:34 I downloaded the 1.1 Chromium image from http://meego.com/downloads/releases/1.1/meego-v1.1-netbooks-google-chrome-browser. I also downloaded the md5sum file from there. Running md5sum from a bash shell on the .img files produces a string different than what is in the downloaded md5 file. That means the image is corrupted? Dec 30 19:35:07 yes Dec 30 19:35:50 that's the chrome image, not the chromium image Dec 30 19:37:02 Huh, wait a second, running md5sum on the downloaded image again produces a matching result! Could copying the file to a flash drive change the md5 hash? (Reading file on hard drive to copy it shouldn't, I would think!) Anyhow, now md5s match. Dec 30 19:37:24 depends how you copied it Dec 30 19:37:52 if you made a bootable flash drive it would change the md5sum because the file size would change to the size of the flash drive Dec 30 20:21:36 why nokia is talking with microsoft ? Dec 30 20:22:04 is that a true or just a rumor ? Dec 30 20:22:32 are you really expecting someone who truly knows to comment? :) Dec 30 20:23:15 but nokia is doing so strange nowdays Dec 30 20:59:52 package-kit gets stuck at the refreshing software list stage, about 1/3 through. has anyone else seen this? Dec 30 21:53:13 if I'm turning an existing source into an rpm, is there an easy way to figure out what all needs to go in the FILES section? I've been going through the output of make install ; but there's a lot fo them, and the docs say only for small projects ; what do we do for teh bigger ones? Dec 30 21:53:29 everything you installed should be there Dec 30 21:53:32 list all files Dec 30 21:53:37 or file globs Dec 30 21:54:35 thiago: you're saying there's nothing but go through it by hand? Dec 30 21:55:20 get the listing of files you installed, then list them there Dec 30 21:56:05 ok Dec 30 21:58:20 magius_pendragon, if you are building (as I am guessing), rpm for meego, you could use tools like osc or build, that would help you in the process Dec 30 22:02:51 araujo: I'm using rpmbuild + specify, as on the packeging tutorial. I'm having other issues with osc Dec 30 22:03:05 ali1234: No, my point was if you have lots of software which hasn't gone through Qa you have to uninstall it and reinstall if after upgrading; or reflash, and then reinstall everything; or don't use non-QA'ed software. Dec 30 22:03:11 araujo: there's just a large number of files installed by this, and I'm having a hard time picking through htem Dec 30 22:03:35 ...and don't use too much QA'd software either, because eventually that will fill your root too, because the whole design of /opt is broken Dec 30 22:03:41 ali1234: But that's no different to Windows or any Linux distro: if there's not enough space to download and process the upgrade packages, you can't do that. Dec 30 22:04:09 ali1234: I don't disagree /opt is broken, but you make the best of a bad job. Dec 30 22:04:56 hence "barely usable" Dec 30 22:05:55 IYNSHO Dec 30 22:06:05 Thousands of others disagree. Dec 30 22:07:51 Jaffa: don't feed the troll Dec 30 22:09:54 Heh Dec 30 22:10:02 I'd prefer /usr/local Dec 30 22:10:05 But that's just me .. Dec 30 22:10:34 pretty much any of the other possible solutions would be better Dec 30 22:11:08 What are the other possible solutions? Dec 30 22:11:10 * thiago prefers /pkg to /opt Dec 30 22:11:23 it's clearly much better :-P Dec 30 22:11:28 mounting /opt on /usr/local instead Dec 30 22:11:31 thiago: :) Dec 30 22:11:34 they should've put /usr to eMMC Dec 30 22:11:39 ali1234: I don't see the difference. Dec 30 22:11:45 or putting /opt/bin and such into the system path Dec 30 22:11:51 You're just doing the same but undera different install prefix. Dec 30 22:12:13 $ mount | grep opt Dec 30 22:12:14 m'hmm Dec 30 22:12:14 /usr/local on /opt type none (rw,bind) Dec 30 22:12:18 there's loads of ways to do it that mean you don't need to put any files into / Dec 30 22:12:22 * mgedmin raises the F?HS flag Dec 30 22:12:31 * mgedmin stares at the question mark Dec 30 22:13:01 my / is pretty small Dec 30 22:13:03 ali1234: you've not come up with a different strategy, you've just said do the same thing in a different directory. Dec 30 22:17:18 magius_pendragon, try packaging with rpmbuild first, and then it should list the missing packages, just append that list to the %files section and that should make it Dec 30 22:45:55 anyone else had their wlan stopped working all of a sudden on the lenovo netbook? Dec 30 22:46:34 not to me Dec 30 22:46:36 just the battery Dec 30 22:46:56 the wifi just stopped showing up in the network menu Dec 30 22:47:08 driver loaded? Dec 30 22:47:21 I wonder if the update I did yesterday had anything to do with it Dec 30 22:47:47 probably Dec 30 22:47:53 do you see it in iwconfig? Dec 30 22:48:29 no, not anymore Dec 30 22:48:37 then the driver isn't loaded Dec 30 22:48:42 probably because the driver isn't installed Dec 30 22:48:53 get the driver from broadcom and recompile it Dec 30 22:48:53 I wonder if it unloaded the proprietary drivers I have at first Dec 30 22:49:15 you've probably never had the proprietary drivers for this kernel Dec 30 22:49:40 I had some drivers up until yesterday Dec 30 22:50:04 you probably didn't have this kernel Dec 30 22:50:36 are there any instructions for compiling the drivers? Dec 30 22:52:02 somewhere in broadcom's website Dec 30 22:54:03 mental note: never do updates when travelling Dec 30 22:57:44 ta true saying Dec 30 22:57:53 Mikho, I just installed 1.1 on a new Ideapad and the WiFi didn't work at first boot. I just used the stock image on the website. Dec 30 22:58:18 Alison_Chaiken: expected if your device has Broadcom wifi Dec 30 22:58:31 I see broadcom in lsmod but not in the Network panel of the uxlauncher. Dec 30 22:58:51 jonnor, broadcom driver loads but doesn't work? Dec 30 22:59:23 Alison_Chaiken: afaik, there is no broadcom driver for those devices included on the standard image, as it is propriatary. Dec 30 22:59:33 Alison_Chaiken: do you have a device in iwconfig? Dec 30 22:59:45 In our new Sunnyvale Nokia offices, I literally see a broadcom driver out my office window. Maybe I should throw a rock! Dec 30 22:59:50 I will check iwconfig. Dec 30 22:59:59 Alison_Chaiken: what's the address of the office? Dec 30 23:00:06 * thiago needs to find a hotel nearby Dec 30 23:00:31