**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jan 30 02:59:57 2011 Jan 30 12:17:37 vgrade: ping Jan 30 12:28:17 nuts Jan 30 12:28:21 CosmoHill, \o Jan 30 12:28:24 hey lcuk Jan 30 12:28:27 helio`: lcuk Jan 30 12:28:38 I meat Hello .. not helio` ... Jan 30 12:29:58 just say hello to helio` anyway :D Jan 30 12:31:17 :) Jan 30 12:32:40 when is the MeeGo Cambridge meeting? Jan 30 12:32:49 thursday isn't it? Jan 30 12:33:47 Tuesday I thought Jan 30 12:34:24 CosmoHIll Tuesday, sec while I find alink Jan 30 12:34:25 Wednesday Jan 30 12:34:32 Wait what? Jan 30 12:34:38 Sorry Jan 30 12:35:01 Urm, now I'm confused. Jan 30 12:35:05 It does look like Tuesday Jan 30 12:35:16 (For some reason I had it in my mind the 4th was a Wednesday) Jan 30 12:35:53 http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=16242&postcount=25 Jan 30 12:36:05 Wait, it is a wednesday! Jan 30 12:36:16 vgrade: can i PM you something? Jan 30 12:36:21 Stop confusing me and making me look at the wrong bloody month in my calendar :P Jan 30 12:36:21 yup Jan 30 12:36:57 wait, what? Jan 30 12:37:02 #Meego Meeting When, Wednesday, February 2 · 7:30pm - 10:30pm, Where, Clowns, Cambridge 54 King Street Jan 30 12:37:14 lcuk: yes, that's correct. Jan 30 12:37:25 I thought Tuesday too Jan 30 12:37:26 sorry guys Jan 30 12:37:35 not awake yet Jan 30 12:37:35 was the original one due for a Tuesday? Jan 30 12:37:36 No, it's definitely Wednesday Jan 30 12:37:56 lcuk: we were talking about tuesday or wednesday in the beginning and I said I prefered wednesday Jan 30 12:38:19 so folks around Camrbidge on Wednesday night Jan 30 12:39:08 Yess Jan 30 12:40:50 I am vanishing again \o ttyl Jan 30 12:45:17 talk to you later or /dev/tty1 ? Jan 30 13:05:54 hello, one uquetion.. When i close my netbook, meebo goes in the standby status Jan 30 13:06:16 and when i open it, meebo starts but the screen doen not light Jan 30 13:06:26 it is black Jan 30 13:06:34 it could be a graphics issue Jan 30 13:07:13 sure? when i restart the netbook (with a hard power off) anything is right Jan 30 13:07:32 i mean it puts the computer into standby and turns off the graphics Jan 30 13:07:40 when it wakes up it doesn't turn the graphics back on Jan 30 13:07:45 hm Jan 30 13:07:46 this is what I think happens on my laptop with red hat Jan 30 13:08:04 hm Jan 30 13:11:35 whan can i do? Jan 30 13:13:01 check to see if there is a bug, if there is add to it, if there isn't then create one Jan 30 13:13:10 Ok Jan 30 13:13:18 or... could it be a bios problem? Jan 30 13:13:56 that would be device specific, you could play around with setting and see what happesn Jan 30 13:14:35 okay :D thanks so much! Jan 30 13:16:35 dammit, I've spent so long on my dissertation both Windows and Linux have released a new version Jan 30 13:21:23 You spent that time with the purpose. Jan 30 13:21:38 They spent it to release the same old crap, just more hideous Jan 30 13:21:44 "we’ve added support for network boot as well as the ability to dual boot with Linux" Jan 30 14:48:08 Hi. A quick check - does MeeGo support installation to a LVM? (saw a thread mentioning it doesn't, just want to double-check) Jan 30 15:50:56 Stskeeps: does meego have project irc cloaks? Jan 30 15:56:08 andre, why does bugs.meego.com require registered accounts for email addresses I want to add to the CC list of a bug? Jan 30 15:56:11 timoph: i'm GRF, we should start a process/discussion.. Jan 30 15:56:27 timoph: on how they're delegated Jan 30 15:56:34 * araujo thinks that'd be nice Jan 30 15:57:03 and more importantly, how they look :P Jan 30 15:57:21 ;) Jan 30 15:58:00 something like /meego/quality/timoph or /meego/arm/stskeeps Jan 30 15:58:22 well, i belong under RE for god knows what reason Jan 30 15:58:38 :) Jan 30 15:59:18 but yre Jan 30 15:59:19 eah Jan 30 16:00:58 dunno how explicitly the project has to show in the cloak. e.g. does quality include qa tools, etc. I'd use high level things and not go into subproject level with those Jan 30 16:03:10 dunno how many different cloaks we would need just for the high level things.. Jan 30 16:04:25 hmmh. actually the different possibilites are pretty much listed in meego.gitorious.org Jan 30 16:12:29 Do we use KIWI to build images? Jan 30 16:12:37 (The automated images in repo.meego.com) Jan 30 16:13:33 no Jan 30 16:14:01 So the automated images are done with mic then? Jan 30 16:14:53 * alterego ignores the wiki section on obs wiki Jan 30 16:15:00 boss plus mic, afaik Jan 30 16:15:08 m'kay Jan 30 16:17:32 at some point these were actually manual, i think Jan 30 16:17:43 Heh Jan 30 16:24:17 I guess from this obs cache, I could in theory generate netbook images and all sorts Jan 30 16:24:30 As it's a complete mirror of the meego repo right? Jan 30 16:24:41 Both i586 and armv7el Jan 30 16:24:56 right Jan 30 16:25:04 Wicked Jan 30 16:25:05 no non-oss though Jan 30 16:25:09 Of course Jan 30 16:25:21 and handset/netbook isnt imported by default, just core Jan 30 16:25:27 Okay Jan 30 16:25:28 but should be easy to hack.. Jan 30 16:30:03 btw: I guess netbook UX wouldn't build for ARM? Jan 30 16:32:30 Here's an analogy suggested to me by Angela Hey, a local tech columnist here in CA. For all of you gray-haired folks who remember Un*x wars, SysV:BSD::Android:MeeGo. Jan 30 16:33:13 dm8tbr: I'd hope it does build. Jan 30 16:33:21 BSD trumped SysV on technical excellence. We still have a lot of work to do there. Jan 30 16:33:29 alterego: anyone ever tried? Jan 30 16:33:35 dm8tbr: not sure, Jan 30 16:33:56 dm8tbr: is there no netbook in armv7el repo? Jan 30 16:33:58 alterego: as it would e.g. make sense for my A101 and another guy in helsinki had exactly this idea for his a101 (that's why I'm asking) Jan 30 16:34:03 let me check Jan 30 16:34:13 I never did, shame on me. Jan 30 16:34:46 Doesn't look like it :/ Jan 30 16:34:58 humh, what's 1.1.90? to-be-1.3? Jan 30 16:35:08 I thought it was 1.2 Jan 30 16:35:16 yep. to-be-1.2 Jan 30 16:35:23 1.3 with be 1.2.90 :P Jan 30 16:35:36 so 1.1.80 is dead? Jan 30 16:36:00 AFAIK .8 changes to .9 after feature freeze Jan 30 16:36:09 It's all part of the release cycle feature freeze Jan 30 16:36:10 aaah Jan 30 16:36:17 thanks for reminding me Jan 30 16:37:51 That's strange Jan 30 16:38:08 For some reason I'd have thought the'd build netbook for all supported architectures :) Jan 30 16:40:15 so is Android technically excellent then ? Jan 30 16:41:35 if you look at their libc, most certainly not Jan 30 16:42:49 thiago_home: they have their own libc? Jan 30 16:42:56 yes, called bionic Jan 30 16:43:05 buggy a hell Jan 30 16:43:05 if(naive_customer || 0) { for(;;) { send_data_to_google(); sleep(3600); } } Jan 30 16:43:08 I wonder why they decided to do that .. Jan 30 16:43:59 dm8tbr: it is more of a GLESv2 vs GL issue (netbook) Jan 30 16:44:03 alterego: NIH Jan 30 16:44:36 dm8tbr: and noone taking care of it in meego, job open :P Jan 30 16:45:07 Heh Jan 30 16:45:32 (n900 team mostly takes care of handset and core only) Jan 30 16:45:41 core's the tough job Jan 30 16:46:38 Buggy Implementation Of Newly Implemented Code ? "bionic" Jan 30 16:46:51 alterego: also, with glibc they would probably put "STALLMAN GOING POSTAL WITH GPLv3" on their risks list, while bionic is of course Google's to decide. Jan 30 16:47:07 so that they allow for propietary devices. Jan 30 16:47:45 Hrm Jan 30 16:47:46 Yeah Jan 30 16:48:11 I suppose there system is basically, kernel + libc + dalik Jan 30 16:48:29 dalvik Jan 30 16:48:37 :) Jan 30 16:49:59 there are a number of low-level libraries too, like libhardware Jan 30 16:50:28 and don't forget about openbinder. Jan 30 16:50:42 * javispedro kinda liked it Jan 30 16:52:54 Oh, I didn't realise that the package count was per arch :/ Jan 30 16:53:06 So I've got another 2663 packages to download for arm :D Jan 30 16:53:21 see http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/hardware/libhardware.git;a=blob;f=include/hardware/sensors.h;hb=refs/heads/donut#l80 Jan 30 17:34:12 Stskeeps: ah, yes EGL vs GL. why didn't I think of it earlier Jan 30 17:34:47 dm8tbr: -supposedly- clutter can switch to egl mode but.. Jan 30 17:35:02 *nod* Jan 30 17:35:20 * dm8tbr takes a note of a possible for fun and visible project :) Jan 30 17:35:56 i think kulve was looking at that too Jan 30 17:37:16 upstream clutter is missing TFP for EGL which is needed for window manager stuff (like Mutter) Jan 30 17:37:22 ah Jan 30 17:37:48 i thought maemo had something like that, but that might have been for nokia's extension Jan 30 17:37:54 There's a patch for a bit older clutter in Linaro and I built stuff with those patches for OMAP3 but didn't have time to test anything yet Jan 30 17:38:17 Maemo did have it yes, but for clutter 0.8 only. Linaro have it 1.2 and the latest is 1.5 Jan 30 17:38:22 :nod: Jan 30 17:39:16 kulve: ah, I might be sending someone your way. one of our guys from helsinki is interested in this for his Archos101 Jan 30 17:40:34 ok Jan 30 17:52:31 kulve: \o/ Jan 30 17:52:48 veli: moro :) Jan 30 17:53:00 kulve: moi! Jan 30 17:59:26 Jaffa: ping Jan 30 18:25:31 lbt: pong; but just about to bath the children... Jan 30 18:28:07 Jaffa: later is fine ... comments about MWN and Maemo Jan 30 18:55:42 lbt, should we cast it off? *g* Jan 30 18:56:22 :) Jan 30 18:56:51 I actually mean Apps/Surrounds/OBS and Maemo Jan 30 18:57:05 And, damnit, it's Sunday again. Jan 30 18:57:46 Working Sundays really throws off one's sense of weekly progession. Jan 30 19:01:46 lbt: I set up a localobs today, going to work on a fremantle target Jan 30 19:02:24 alterego: OK - bear in mind that we're significantly down the road on the maemo OBS Jan 30 19:02:31 so do start with that! Jan 30 19:02:41 :) Jan 30 19:02:51 you mean the diablo obs? Jan 30 19:03:34 I'd imagine technically they're almost identical except for toolchain, rootfs and packages Jan 30 19:03:49 I mean fremantle Jan 30 19:03:55 do you mean diable? Jan 30 19:03:57 o Jan 30 19:04:39 https://build.obs.maemo.org/ (which seems to be down :( ) Jan 30 19:04:44 reminds me to rebuild the fosdem2010 app with the 2011 schedule with my obs at work tomorrow Jan 30 19:04:54 yes, exactly because that is down ;) Jan 30 19:06:01 lbt: no I mean fremantle but I know there's a diablo target, are you saying obs.maemo.org can do fremantle? Jan 30 19:06:26 yep ... it successfully builds a big chunk of 'Extras' Jan 30 19:06:43 I'm not aware of a Diablo target ... and I'd like one Jan 30 19:06:57 'cos then we could replace the autobuilder Jan 30 19:07:17 Oh cool, didn't know that. So how can I import that infra into my local obs which can build meego against i586 and armv7el core? Jan 30 19:07:51 lbt: well, there's some wiki page on maemo.org which talks about diablo obs Jan 30 19:07:51 alterego: get an account there when it's back Jan 30 19:07:59 alterego: link ? Jan 30 19:08:04 And it's also mentioned on the suse obs wiki Jan 30 19:08:33 lbt: if you go to the suse obs wiki and go to "users" it's at the bottom of that page iirc Jan 30 19:08:45 I'm afk at the moment so I can't get it myself. Jan 30 19:10:05 lbt: i (personally) think there's value to meego oss 'app store' allowing to build meego api apps for fremantle.. Jan 30 19:10:13 ie, my idea about the oss subset Jan 30 19:11:16 ie, don't move entire extras to OBS, but add the 'store' software to n900 Jan 30 19:13:01 in fact, i'll be provocative and suggest rpm alongside on maemo, pre-seeded with meego api names :) Jan 30 19:13:37 Heh Jan 30 19:13:51 Stskeeps: MeeGo API on Maemo 5 is... intriguing. What elements are in the MeeGo API which aren't covered by Qt & Qt Mobility et al? Jan 30 19:15:12 Jaffa: http://apidocs.meego.com/1.1/core/html/index.html Jan 30 19:18:40 meego api = opengles + qt + qt mobility Jan 30 19:18:45 so n900 has technically everything Jan 30 19:18:57 but not the platform API, nor is it compliant Jan 30 19:20:38 so don't call it meego, call it mg ;) Jan 30 19:22:09 or stick the hildon stuff on top of meego core Jan 30 19:22:32 hildon will not be able to make apps look like meego Jan 30 19:22:42 just like QWidget couldn't Jan 30 19:22:55 ah. true Jan 30 19:23:20 was thinking about the compliance thing Jan 30 19:23:53 maemo5 is definitely not a meego-compliant device Jan 30 19:24:01 however, it has the meego api Jan 30 19:24:10 furthermore,maemo5 is not a device Jan 30 19:24:16 :) Jan 30 19:24:20 right Jan 30 19:24:31 so let me rephrase: a device running maemo5 is not a meego-compliant device Jan 30 19:25:10 yep. but meego core + hildon would be? Jan 30 19:25:25 timoph: hildon desktop, i suppose? Jan 30 19:25:33 Stskeeps: yes Jan 30 19:25:41 timoph: that one is more complicated :) Jan 30 19:36:08 lbt: back Jan 30 20:12:57 Jaffa: hey Jan 30 21:10:54 lbt: hey! :-) Jan 30 21:12:05 * CosmoHill watches a hamster roll past Jan 30 21:12:20 Jaffa: sry Jan 30 21:13:01 going to whistler in Feb/Mar.... looking for a room \o/ Jan 30 21:16:30 so Jaffa... I was just going to suggest that you put something into MWN about the future of Maemo Jan 30 21:16:40 autobuilder Jan 30 21:18:35 lbt: Indeed. As noted earlier (and by thp), diablo supports the kicker for a complete OBS replacement. Jan 30 21:19:22 yes, and it may be good to start planning the maemo migration ... Jan 30 21:19:31 I don't even know what that means :) Jan 30 21:49:29 oh god WP7 ssssuuuxxx Jan 30 21:50:28 Orange Poland did show with testing WP7, god hate WP7, and me too Jan 30 22:01:20 God hates WP7? Jan 30 22:04:06 Matan[M]: why does it sucks? Jan 30 22:06:40 CosmoHill: this gui, this no multitasking, this not working in poland apps, this backward incompatibility, this bugs, this shit, oh god save the meego before something like this Jan 30 22:34:26 CosmoHill: *this no backward incompatibility... ;] Jan 30 22:36:59 * alterego cringes at 25M being installed into his rootfs Jan 30 22:40:13 Hi! Jan 30 22:40:37 Wow! What an amazing experience using Meego 1.1 in a LG X110 Netbook!!!! Jan 30 22:48:19 I couldn't find a button to Shutdown the computer so I clicked the Power-button & then Shutdown. Jan 30 22:48:53 that's how you shut down Jan 30 22:50:47 Okey. Jan 30 22:50:54 25 seconds to boot. Jan 30 22:50:57 Not bad. Jan 30 22:51:00 Not bad at all. Jan 30 22:51:02 that's a lot Jan 30 22:51:03 ;) Jan 30 22:51:09 it should boot in 12 seconds or less Jan 30 22:51:19 I haven't updated it until now. Jan 30 22:51:23 well, from GRUB to fully running Jan 30 22:51:35 the time from power on to GRUB isn't something we can influence Jan 30 22:52:06 'cause of the difference from the Atom-CPU? Jan 30 22:52:35 my Atom boots in 12 seconds Jan 30 22:52:41 Okey. Jan 30 22:53:23 Do I start counting from the second I click on the power-button to when I'm in or from when I see a picture? Jan 30 22:55:44 Matan[M]: are you Matan from TMO? Jan 30 22:55:51 from the moment you see the boot loader Jan 30 22:56:38 thiago_home: can you compile grub with -O3? Jan 30 22:57:26 no idea Jan 30 22:57:35 I haven't compiled grub since it first came out, in the 90s Jan 30 22:58:49 The bootloader is the process-list, right? Jan 30 22:59:00 thiago_home: ^^ Jan 30 22:59:14 Processes that gets started. Jan 30 22:59:24 optimizing the bootloader wont make startup times noticably quicker ^.^ Jan 30 22:59:52 http://black-flag.co.uk/files/lfs/bootchart-20101002-1525.svg Jan 30 23:01:39 There should be a script to tell how long time it really takes to boot the system. Jan 30 23:01:52 there can't be Jan 30 23:01:53 Perhaps a countdown-clock until it's finished. Jan 30 23:01:53 hmhm Jan 30 23:02:04 because we're timing from the kernel boot Jan 30 23:02:06 what is the status of the policy framework in MeeGo? Jan 30 23:02:14 you can't do a count down, what if you end up with negative numbers? Jan 30 23:02:15 Right. Jan 30 23:02:38 Then you'll know that your computer or netbook is broken. Jan 30 23:02:40 ;) Jan 30 23:04:35 you have POST > boot loader > kernel (this is where bootchartd starts) Jan 30 23:04:53 Okey. Jan 30 23:05:01 Uuuuuuuuhm. Jan 30 23:05:44 after the kernel you have all the boot scripts and stuff Jan 30 23:06:16 I know that Meego is developing all the time, but I wonder.......... Looking in my home-folder I see several directories that is used as the same purpose. Jan 30 23:06:28 One named in English & the other in Swedish. Jan 30 23:06:31 How come? Jan 30 23:06:42 Building -> Byggnader. Jan 30 23:06:45 Buildings -> Byggnader. Jan 30 23:07:10 you have both english and swedish directories for the same stuff Jan 30 23:07:14 I'm talking about duplicates. Jan 30 23:07:24 is one a link to another? Jan 30 23:07:40 I'm checking. Jan 30 23:08:12 Nope. Byggnader-directory is empty. Jan 30 23:08:33 Could it be because of the update that I did? Jan 30 23:08:44 it could be that some software is hard coded to use a directory that is in english Jan 30 23:09:10 I'm afraid to delete/remove the Byggnader-directory. Jan 30 23:09:20 So I'll just leave it. Jan 30 23:11:17 CosmoHill: Someone needs to fix the link in the topic. http://meego.com doesn't open. Jan 30 23:11:34 loaded just fine Jan 30 23:11:55 Umeaboy: yes it does Jan 30 23:14:42 In Chromium-browser in Mandriva I get an error. Jan 30 23:15:32 I'm not using chromium, mandriva or even linux, so I can't comment Jan 30 23:15:43 /* well I can but that's not the point */ Jan 30 23:16:58 thiago_home: It works in Firefox thou. Jan 30 23:17:14 I'll test in Epiphany as well. Jan 30 23:17:23 isn't it just text that is linkified by the chat client ? Jan 30 23:17:38 It works fine in Epiphany as well. Jan 30 23:17:43 I'll test in Opera to. Jan 30 23:17:59 it's your internet connection Jan 30 23:18:00 the site is up Jan 30 23:18:06 Nope. Jan 30 23:18:08 I told you. Jan 30 23:18:12 It works in Firefox. Jan 30 23:18:16 ok Jan 30 23:18:17 And Epiphany. Jan 30 23:18:20 and konqueror Jan 30 23:19:20 thiago_home: Lets' talk about my issue in #mandriva Jan 30 23:19:26 Lets Jan 30 23:19:34 not really Jan 30 23:19:39 not interested in chromium... Jan 30 23:19:58 Okey. I was hoping you could confirm the error. Jan 30 23:20:09 I can't. No chromium. Jan 30 23:20:36 Does the gps backend in meego have the ability to tether with a bluetooth gps dongle? Jan 30 23:21:58 alterego: not yet. (unless you port your stuff from Columbus to MeeGo :P) Jan 30 23:22:44 Venemo: that's what I'm doing, but I would have thought there was already infra in place to handle serial NMEA comms .. Jan 30 23:23:07 Which would make my job easier as that stuff should already be in Mobility ... Jan 30 23:23:17 alterego: I have no idea, sorry Jan 30 23:23:26 Otherwise I'm going to have to write my own nmea parser. Jan 30 23:35:17 Well, got the main engine and support libs compiled for meego, tomorrow looks like I'll be porting the UI :) Jan 30 23:35:28 Then hack in support for external GPS Jan 30 23:35:35 All set for the demo on Wednesday :x Jan 30 23:36:11 thiago_home: Where do I translate Meego? Jan 30 23:36:15 svn.meego.com ? Jan 30 23:36:32 Umeaboy: I think I saw something on the wiki about localisation Jan 30 23:36:37 I don't remember Jan 30 23:36:42 and MeeGo doesn't use svn Jan 30 23:36:51 Oooooh. Jan 30 23:37:01 Anyhow, bedtime, g'night folks. Jan 30 23:37:54 Good night. Jan 30 23:38:12 I've applied for the proper mailinglist. Jan 30 23:38:58 anyone know what the releasename will be on the first MeeGo device? Jan 30 23:40:31 whose first MeeGo device? Jan 30 23:42:30 mine will be called "yay it works" Jan 30 23:42:44 or GoMee Jan 30 23:43:09 (tm) Jan 30 23:46:48 CosmoHill: GoMee as in GoMeez? ;) Jan 30 23:46:56 No offence. ;) Jan 30 23:47:23 I'm not sure how that would offend me but I'm gonna look for a way now that you said no offence Jan 30 23:51:34 CosmoHill: You know which Gomez I mean? Jan 30 23:51:36 ;) Jan 30 23:51:49 no Jan 30 23:51:51 Gomez Adams. Jan 30 23:51:58 never heard of him Jan 30 23:51:58 For the Adams Family. Jan 30 23:52:01 oh Jan 30 23:52:02 From Jan 30 23:53:58 :-) Jan 30 23:54:29 dammit, now I'm singing the Addams Family song Jan 30 23:54:35 ah! Jan 30 23:54:40 Hehehehe Jan 30 23:54:43 I have Dad's Army in my head :/ Jan 30 23:54:44 I loved Lurch. Jan 30 23:55:27 He's so alike Larry Kubiac (Sorry for the spelling of the last name). Jan 30 23:55:37 Larry from Parker Lewis. Jan 30 23:55:39 ;) Jan 30 23:55:43 Big guy. Jan 31 00:02:21 meego netbook doesn't open it either, somehow the link get translated to http://meego.com%20%7C Jan 31 00:03:24 if you type it in the browser? Jan 31 00:04:02 so there's a space and | Jan 31 00:04:08 That's what I'm talking about. Jan 31 00:04:15 nah... if I type meego.com it works fine Jan 31 00:04:20 NOW do you believe me? Jan 31 00:04:41 Umeaboy: your chat client does it wrong Jan 31 00:04:52 if you look at the topic from empathy (whch may as well be the problem and not chrome/ium) you can see a space and a pipe in the link it renders too Jan 31 00:05:06 there is a space and a pipe Jan 31 00:05:08 of course, this is on a meego netbook Jan 31 00:05:14 but my IRC client doesn't include them in the link Jan 31 00:06:01 thiago_home: I'm on the Mandriva-computer & that's where I get this problem. Jan 31 00:06:15 Haven't tested in the newly installed Meego Netbook. Jan 31 00:06:27 the problem is your IRC client, not your web browser Jan 31 00:06:31 this is 1.1 with patches, no 1.1.90 Jan 31 00:06:44 thiago_home: I'm well aware of that :-) Jan 31 00:06:51 probably a bug for netbook ux Jan 31 00:07:27 thiago_home: I've been looking in xChat's settings, but noooooooo settings to change browser to use. Jan 31 00:10:24 It works fine in the Meego notebook. Jan 31 00:17:10 thiago_home: Do you have any problem playing any Youtube-video in FullScreen-mode? Jan 31 00:17:20 yes Jan 31 00:17:39 whenever my Mandriva laptop is running with TwinView (NVidia card) Jan 31 00:18:12 Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuhm. Do I install the RPM for Java when it comes to use it in Chrome(ium) ? Jan 31 00:29:26 CosmoHill: I think I froze my Meego-PC now. ;( Jan 31 00:29:37 what did you do? Jan 31 00:29:46 I opened Terminal/Console & typed ls. Jan 31 00:29:54 Nothing happens. Jan 31 00:30:25 Unless it has a lot to display. Jan 31 00:32:46 CosmoHill: Isn't java-1.6.0-openjdk installed in Meego by default? Jan 31 00:32:53 no idea Jan 31 00:34:38 pheew... for a second I envisioned a Meego-PC in a fridge Jan 31 00:47:35 CosmoHill: When reporting this, what do I type in the field for USER IMPACT ? Jan 31 00:47:44 How it affects me? Jan 31 00:47:56 yes Jan 31 00:48:18 for example if the email client was broken the user impact would be "user can't access email" Jan 31 00:50:29 Stskeeps: ping Jan 31 00:50:46 CosmoHill: EXTRA SOFTWARE INSTALLED ? Jan 31 00:50:48 Huh? Jan 31 00:51:43 I don't think I have any extra software installed. Jan 31 00:51:58 Thou the update-process I did might've installed some. Jan 31 00:54:49 Talk to sergiusens, olorin_. Jan 31 00:54:50 Umeaboy: "none" ? Jan 31 00:55:41 Evenin' meego folk, whatz up? Jan 31 00:56:09 CosmoHill: None I guess. Jan 31 00:56:55 No meego device until quarter 4....care to comment anybody? Jan 31 00:57:21 http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13128 Jan 31 00:57:58 N9 cancelled Jan 31 00:58:45 MeegoBoy: of course, those are rumours Jan 31 00:58:47 unsubstantiated Jan 31 00:58:57 no comments on rumours Jan 31 00:59:40 I was speaking to some of my old friends at nokia, they are all confused Jan 31 01:00:06 I'm not Jan 31 01:00:26 Elop is furious at the slow rate of meego progress Jan 31 01:00:38 maybe he is Jan 31 01:00:50 Heads are on the line.... Jan 31 01:00:55 maybe Jan 31 01:01:13 Thats why elop brought the skillman guy from palm Jan 31 01:01:23 eh... no Jan 31 01:01:30 No? Jan 31 01:01:34 skillman is a head designer Jan 31 01:01:43 he has nothing to do with getting things done Jan 31 01:01:59 Yes but elop told skillman to make sure meego people dont fuck up Jan 31 01:02:04 in the design Jan 31 01:02:11 not in the software delivery Jan 31 01:02:23 Skillman is a UI guy right? Jan 31 01:02:29 yes Jan 31 01:02:36 Exactly Jan 31 01:02:58 so unless the problem is that the UI isn't done, he has no part in the delays or getting them fixed Jan 31 01:03:25 Elop is determined to downplay symbian and make it for low end devices, he told skillman to take care of meego Jan 31 01:03:45 skillman is the head meego designer Jan 31 01:03:51 Right Jan 31 01:04:31 Funny thing is elop has a personal hate for open source....curious how this is gonna play out Jan 31 01:04:51 never talked to elop personally, so I don't know his mind Jan 31 01:04:54 MeegoBoy: "elop has a personal hate for open source" -> where did you get that from? Jan 31 01:05:20 Venemo: back from his MS days Jan 31 01:05:23 sergiusens: Can you add a comment to my bug to tell people you've seen this to? Jan 31 01:05:44 MeegoBoy: I don't think so. Jan 31 01:05:47 however, considering that meego is open source, symbian is open source, qt is open source and I'm being allowed to continue pushing for Qt open governance, even if he hates open source, he doesn't let his feeling get mixed with business Jan 31 01:06:25 Venemo: elop has take symbian back to nokia to make it less open...trust me....inside information my friend Jan 31 01:06:43 and of course, you're wrong Jan 31 01:06:58 haha! I've heard so much "inside information", and none of it did come true! haha! Jan 31 01:07:00 symbian is still open source. It's just not in the foundation anymore. Jan 31 01:07:20 He made public comments during his MS days about his dislike for open source Jan 31 01:07:22 the reason it disappeared was that the foundation ran out of money before nokia could set up the hosting Jan 31 01:07:29 MeegoBoy: do you have a link? Jan 31 01:07:43 I will find it Jan 31 01:07:46 MeegoBoy: "made public comments during his MS days about his dislike for open source" -> that's what people are paid for at MS. Jan 31 01:07:58 MeegoBoy: even if it's not their honest opinion Jan 31 01:08:07 True I guess Jan 31 01:08:28 I'm not trying to protect Elop - I'm saying that judging someone by his career at his previous workplace is not right. Jan 31 01:08:54 On feb 11 Nothing will be announced ...just empty talk from elop Jan 31 01:08:57 MeegoBoy: let's see what he does and how, and then we can make an opinion about him. Jan 31 01:08:58 thiago_home: I'm pretty sure I have this mate who endorses both Symbian and MeeGo. Jan 31 01:09:48 Dont get me wrong...i like elop...very intelligent man Jan 31 01:10:55 otherwise he wouldn't have been hired Jan 31 01:11:31 But why is meego progress moving at turtle's pace? That what elop is starting to ask Jan 31 01:11:45 can't tell you Jan 31 01:11:50 there are obviously good reasons Jan 31 01:11:57 Such as? Jan 31 01:12:06 what part of "can't tell you" didn't you understand? Jan 31 01:12:55 I've been hearing its because quite frankly its crap at the stage its at now Jan 31 01:13:15 cyas Jan 31 01:13:57 * thiago_home knows from experience that it's hard enough to make a quality release of one software Jan 31 01:14:10 imagine something as complex as a meego device Jan 31 01:14:15 Elop is searcing for new OS ... Meego aint cutting it Jan 31 01:14:31 MeegoBoy: care to point to a link on nokia.com for that info? Jan 31 01:14:56 * ljp gets some popcorn Jan 31 01:15:15 You joking??? This is classified information not meant for Joe Public Jan 31 01:15:25 MeegoBoy: then it's at best rumours and speculations Jan 31 01:15:35 at worst, you're spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt (FUD) Jan 31 01:15:35 Nokia.com is a marketing front Jan 31 01:16:00 * ljp gets back to meego development Jan 31 01:16:03 When does Bildenberger come in? Jan 31 01:16:05 You think theyre gonna start posting inside information on nokia.com and jeopardize sales??? Jan 31 01:16:17 MeegoBoy: of course not Jan 31 01:16:24 Right Jan 31 01:16:25 MeegoBoy: which makes your line just speculation Jan 31 01:16:34 and I'll ask you to refrain from doing that Jan 31 01:16:40 you can't substantiate your claims Jan 31 01:17:08 Ok but...thought this was an open source community willing to discuss freely, is not ???? Jan 31 01:17:18 we can discuss freely Jan 31 01:17:22 well, not we Jan 31 01:17:23 I can't Jan 31 01:17:26 because I know stuff Jan 31 01:17:43 Nokia company policies etc. Jan 31 01:17:50 what I'm trying to do is make sure you understand what's speculation and what's fact Jan 31 01:17:56 and especially be clear when you say so Jan 31 01:18:16 I know what parts of what you say are complete nonsense and which ones have some reality to it. Most people in this channel don't. Jan 31 01:18:34 so they will get disinformation from you, unless you clearly say what's speculation and what's fact. Jan 31 01:18:35 I also DO have friends working at nokia and they are positioned in the higher levels, i am not talking about coders here fresh out of college Jan 31 01:18:55 maybe you do and maybe your friends know something I don't Jan 31 01:19:02 but the point is that we simply cannot verify your claims Jan 31 01:19:06 Cant we speculate a bit ??? Whats the harm mate? Jan 31 01:19:14 you can. Just say that it's speculation. Jan 31 01:19:21 don't present it as fact. Jan 31 01:19:54 "Elop is searcing for new OS ... Meego aint cutting it" <--- sounds like fact Jan 31 01:20:06 "I think Elop is searcing for new OS ... Meego aint cutting it" <--- sounds like opinion Jan 31 01:20:11 Sounds like FUD to me. Jan 31 01:20:30 It aint FUD.... elop is not pleased....trust me Jan 31 01:20:40 I don't need to trust you Jan 31 01:20:45 I know what I know Jan 31 01:20:55 I'm not going to get information about the company I work for on IRC Jan 31 01:21:26 I ask you dear people: why would I come to this channel to post unsubstantiated nonsense? Jan 31 01:21:38 because people do that Jan 31 01:21:42 I don't know why, but they do Jan 31 01:21:42 I dont Jan 31 01:21:59 why do people come to IRC channels to flood and do other nasty stuff? Jan 31 01:22:02 don't they have a life? Jan 31 01:22:09 I used to be an enginner at nokia and i still have friends there.... I care about nokia Jan 31 01:22:12 but they come and do it. So I don't know what your intentions are. Jan 31 01:22:53 My intentions??? I wanna discuss... Thought thats what irc channels are for, are they not? Jan 31 01:23:06 yes Jan 31 01:23:56 And? Jan 31 01:23:59 and what? Jan 31 01:24:09 lol at you Jan 31 01:24:43 Why is this community so god damned anal? Pardon my expression. Do you folk have some unresolved insecurities? Jan 31 01:25:06 I personally do this whenever I hear rumours being discussed as facts. Jan 31 01:25:12 I care about the company Jan 31 01:25:22 and rumours damage the company, so I'll do what I can to stop them. Jan 31 01:25:38 Ok....fair game... Lets talk about the "rumors" then Jan 31 01:25:48 you can talk about them. I can't. Jan 31 01:26:20 I don't work for Nokia, and I don't work for any company that works for Nokia, and I also hate these rumours being presented as facts Jan 31 01:26:32 I'll talk about Rumors, I really liked that Fleetwood Mac album Jan 31 01:26:33 ShadowJK++ Jan 31 01:26:40 Fair.... I respect that... When i was at nokia i was the same Jan 31 01:27:53 They are fun entertainment sometimes, especially the "N9 specifications" subject, but mostly because of the absurd things some people believe :-) Jan 31 01:28:05 I thought this was the MeeGo channel, not the Nokia channel? Jan 31 01:28:15 I also believe in freedom of speech and transparency.... Obviously some in this channel are corporate puppets Jan 31 01:28:16 That too :) Jan 31 01:29:00 N9 is cancelled Jan 31 01:29:00 MeeGoBot, since I don't get paid by any corporation, I'll say it: stfu and go do something productive instead Jan 31 01:29:01 ShadowJK: Sorry, I've no idea what 'since I don't get paid by any corporation, I'll say it: stfu and go do something productive instead' might be. Jan 31 01:29:14 Eh, I mean MeegoBoy :P Jan 31 01:29:48 Wow nice language folks.... I am impressed Jan 31 01:29:50 * ljp chokes on his popcorn Jan 31 01:30:17 MeegoBoy: do you see why no one wants to discuss with you? Jan 31 01:30:23 you come and say "N9 is cancelled" Jan 31 01:30:30 So? Jan 31 01:30:36 It is Jan 31 01:30:43 it sounds like "go home, your project is over, nothing to do more in this channel" Jan 31 01:30:54 No Jan 31 01:30:56 well, that's again presenting rumour as fact Jan 31 01:31:07 and in this case, it's FUD as fact Jan 31 01:31:10 real FUD Jan 31 01:31:12 There will be a meego device....just not 9 Jan 31 01:31:19 not n9 Jan 31 01:31:28 there was never a device announced under the name N9 Jan 31 01:31:35 the entire name N9 is a rumour Jan 31 01:31:36 Since they don't give devices their names before launch, saying "N9 is cancelled" is kinda meaningless. N9 is just what people guessed the next maemo/meego line of device would be called, and I suspect it will still be called something like that, regardless of how many prototype iterations they go through :P Jan 31 01:31:56 I thought the N900 was going to be called N820 Jan 31 01:31:59 screw announced....thats just marketign garbage for joe public Jan 31 01:32:16 if I scratch the 00 off my Nokia handset, I have an N9 :) Jan 31 01:32:39 lcuk: I can do the same to my old N95 Jan 31 01:32:46 :D indeed! Jan 31 01:32:58 so how can it be cancelled? Jan 31 01:33:33 I for one would like to know the story of RX-71 :) Jan 31 01:33:45 * ljp wants to know who controls his puppet strings, cause they are all tangled up Jan 31 01:33:51 May i ask you folks? I tought i could come in here and discuss some rumors, some facts, some speculation about a project and company i care deeply about. What harm is there in that? Jan 31 01:33:55 ShadowJK: some day, over beer Jan 31 01:34:05 ljp: That would be me. Jan 31 01:34:14 MeegoBoy: you're welcome to do that. But you're not doing it. Jan 31 01:34:26 MeegoBoy: some of us work for Nokia, so we cannot discuss these things Jan 31 01:34:27 MeegoBoy, 2 things: come back with a sensible alias and real name linked to it, and come back when more Finns are awake, its 3am in Finland right now Jan 31 01:34:41 olorin_: then cut me loose, I need new strings :) Jan 31 01:34:42 lcuk: no point. Finns won't discuss it. Jan 31 01:35:04 Thiago: i am not interested in talking about information available to joe public.... Jan 31 01:35:04 MeegoBoy: okay, so you think that N9 is cancelled. would you care to tell us why? Jan 31 01:35:31 MeegoBoy: and I'm not interested in commenting on anything that is not officially announced. Jan 31 01:35:51 MeegoBoy, well, nokia employees aren't stupid enough (I'd hope) to reveal classified information in a public IRC channel :P Jan 31 01:35:56 ljp: Nah. Jan 31 01:36:00 Venemo : because elop is not happy with the state of meego.....furious in fact he is Jan 31 01:36:02 MeegoBoy: but again: my point is that you're trolling, spreading FUD, presenting speculation as fact. Jan 31 01:36:42 MeegoBoy: this is getting funny. please elaborate Jan 31 01:37:40 Venemo: n9 has been cancelled/delayed due to slow progress of meego development.... When i say n9 i mean the meego device from nokia Jan 31 01:37:59 Maybe n901, maybe something else....dont know Jan 31 01:38:23 My guess is that there have been two or 3 devices already that have not reached production :) Jan 31 01:38:29 but that's just my guess Jan 31 01:38:39 MeegoBoy: well then it seems that you are less educated than the average people around here Jan 31 01:38:45 I am talking about n900 successor here Jan 31 01:38:53 MeegoBoy, yes. Jan 31 01:38:55 MeegoBoy: N900 successor won't run MeeGo. Jan 31 01:39:40 MeegoBoy: N900 successor will run Maemo 6 (which will probably be released under some marketing name that resembles MeeGo more) Jan 31 01:40:13 Notice the "maybe". Jan 31 01:40:19 I wonder if this harmattan is becoming more meego :) Jan 31 01:40:23 hehe :) Jan 31 01:40:50 Gotta go. Take care. Jan 31 01:40:55 MeegoBoy: also it's been said (on TMO) that it'll be released at approx. q3 or q4 2011. so there's plenty of time until then. Jan 31 01:41:02 MeegoBoy: you should read TMO. it's all there Jan 31 01:41:14 Anyone is free to confirm my "bug" when they see it. Jan 31 01:41:16 Venemo: wrong. Maemo is dead Jan 31 01:41:28 MeegoBoy: again you are wrong. Jan 31 01:41:35 maemo is dead. long live maemo. Jan 31 01:41:37 :-) Jan 31 01:42:01 Venemo: well maemo is alive as a community hobby project, inside nokia its dead Jan 31 01:42:05 MeegoBoy: it's codenamed Harmattan and it's in the works. Jan 31 01:42:09 Also see if you can get Meego to freeze when you open Terminal & as normal user type ls & press Enter/Return/Execute-button. Jan 31 01:42:17 I think mine froze. Jan 31 01:42:38 And I did nothing with it except updating it. Jan 31 01:42:46 ljp: pass some popcorn, please Jan 31 01:42:52 * Umeaboy is going now. Jan 31 01:43:01 * Umeaboy has left the building! Jan 31 01:43:11 * ljp throws some hot buttered popcorn north Jan 31 01:43:29 thiago_home: Bring it up here will you? Jan 31 01:43:32 Speculation: it was speculated that the next omap3 device would've come out in Q4 2010, but then the MeeGo merger thing happened.. I'm guessing that pushed the timeframe so far ahead that they decided to move to omap4 instead.. I would think that an omap3 device in Q4 2010 or Q1 2011 would definitely have been Maemo6/Harmattan "MeeGo Instance", but now I'm not sure if it'd be Harmattan anymore if it's an Omap4 N9 in Q4 2011 :P Jan 31 01:43:44 Nonsense....why would nokia support 4 OSes??? Maemo, meego, s40, symbian....financial suicide Jan 31 01:43:59 MeegoBoy: they supported more than that in the past Jan 31 01:44:03 MeegoBoy: don't forget s30 Jan 31 01:44:04 Err, S40 _is Symbian_. Jan 31 01:44:10 olorin_, no it's not Jan 31 01:44:11 olorin_: ni Jan 31 01:44:12 olorin_: no. S40 is not Symbian. Jan 31 01:44:13 you're thinking of s60 Jan 31 01:44:15 olorin_: no Jan 31 01:44:15 S60 was Symbian. Jan 31 01:44:29 Aw, me misinformed then. Jan 31 01:44:37 No....i know for a fact that maemo is dead Jan 31 01:44:45 thiago_home, I like your use of past tense :) Jan 31 01:45:12 Focus is on meego Jan 31 01:45:32 MeegoBoy, so since you're so full of facts, is Harmattan canceled too? Jan 31 01:45:53 No.... But isnt harmattan meego? Jan 31 01:45:57 oh screw all this nonsense about computers, MeegoBoy is paris hilton getting married? Jan 31 01:46:07 No it's not :) Jan 31 01:46:16 since the chan seems to have turned into tmz Jan 31 01:46:21 Or atleast it wasn't going to be Jan 31 01:46:21 MeegoBoy: see http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=529073&postcount=14 for some info from qgil Jan 31 01:46:35 lcuk++ Jan 31 01:47:06 Correct. Harmattan is a minor project inside nokia.... An afterthought really....trust me elop doesnt think harmattan is an iphone killer he has in mind Jan 31 01:47:31 Does this thing run in a vm, and anyone with a image? Jan 31 01:48:09 Venemo: has the name after Harmattan been announced? Jan 31 01:48:14 thiago_home: no. Jan 31 01:48:35 thiago_home: at least not that I know of. but honestly, I couldn't care less. Jan 31 01:49:24 I guess it'd be something starting with I, if they find a suitable wind called something with I Jan 31 01:49:28 :P Jan 31 01:49:33 ShadowJK: :D Jan 31 01:49:44 thiago_home, actually yes Jan 31 01:49:46 http://qgil.jaiku.com/presence/52078129 Jan 31 01:50:17 at least candidate listings Jan 31 01:50:22 I like inverna :) Jan 31 01:50:24 two candidates only Jan 31 01:51:05 thiago_home, what were you doing 2 years ago? Jan 31 01:51:11 (when that post was made) Jan 31 01:51:23 Ilmatar actually shows up in gitorious ;P Jan 31 01:51:38 the RX-71 multitouch code Jan 31 01:51:58 ShadowJK, I am more shocked you managed to use gitorious search Jan 31 01:52:09 lcuk, actually google found it Jan 31 01:52:42 gitorious search doesn't seem to, and the page I ended up at after clicking link on google seemed compeltely different compared to google's preview Jan 31 01:52:52 Cloning and find is easier... Jan 31 01:53:34 olorin_, that assumes you know the project you need Jan 31 01:53:59 MeegoBoy, hey will the next device have gyros then? Jan 31 01:54:04 Lol...lol.... Why the hell are you people linking to what qgil said a year ago???? Who cares????!!!! The man is a nokia employee Jan 31 01:54:04 * lcuk has had trouble digging into many areas to find out whether something is feasible Jan 31 01:54:10 lcuk: Well, yes. Jan 31 01:54:50 MeegoBoy, someone asked whether a name existed, it was requested publicly a while ago *shrug* Jan 31 01:54:58 sometimes, we verify things we say with real links Jan 31 01:55:01 ShadowJK: I'm pretty sure it will have a nuclear powerplant instead of a battery. Jan 31 01:55:07 no matter how old they might be, its something you should try. Jan 31 01:55:31 olorin_, nokia showed a methane fuel cell prototype 7 years ago or so :) Jan 31 01:55:39 MeegoBoy: lol, lol. why the hell you think we care what _you_ say? Jan 31 01:55:42 I hope they can make it run on ethanol or something more readily available :D Jan 31 01:55:45 VODKA powered is the future. Jan 31 01:55:50 or running on pure Guinness Jan 31 01:56:03 guinness is a bit weak and would clog up the tubing I'd think Jan 31 01:56:04 Im my 20 some years in computer engineering i have never met as cynical and negative bunch as this Jan 31 01:56:14 ShadowJK, but it has a full head Jan 31 01:56:27 MeegoBoy: we just don't trust you on what you say Jan 31 01:56:34 ShadowJK: People have worked fiercly on that here in Norway too. Jan 31 01:56:57 MeegoBoy: we don't know you, we don't know your credentials. Some of us can also poke holes through some of your "trust me" things. Jan 31 01:57:01 MeegoBoy: were you in the marketing department? ;D Jan 31 01:57:03 thiago_home, actually its wider Jan 31 01:57:11 people should not trust irc ever Jan 31 01:57:26 its one of the first computing things Jan 31 01:57:35 never blindly believe what someone says on the internet Jan 31 01:57:58 verify, backup, factcheck, publish. Jan 31 01:58:11 * lcuk is at stage 3.5 Jan 31 01:58:24 MeegoBoy: this is what depicts the situation best: http://i53.tinypic.com/a1hk05.jpg Jan 31 01:58:30 Let me ask you a question then: what is the current status/progress of meego. Pray tell folks. Jan 31 01:58:41 meego 1.2 is now feature-frozen Jan 31 01:58:57 Feature frozen? Jan 31 01:59:03 release will be in end of april / beginning of may Jan 31 01:59:07 MeegoBoy: http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering/Plans/1.2 Jan 31 01:59:14 there are no announced or confirmed devices for meego 1.2 Jan 31 01:59:21 yet. Jan 31 01:59:33 Why no devices? Jan 31 01:59:47 because no devices have been announced to run meego 1.2 Jan 31 01:59:53 Why? Jan 31 02:00:00 because no devices have been announced to run meego 1.2 Jan 31 02:00:07 search the internet Jan 31 02:00:11 see if you find any announcements Jan 31 02:00:23 Lol....a little cynical today arent we? Jan 31 02:00:24 come back when you have read every page on the internet and confirmed no devices were announced. Jan 31 02:00:44 every page on the internet! Jan 31 02:00:49 heh :) Jan 31 02:01:08 that will get caught in an infinite loop then Jan 31 02:01:17 since this channel is on the internet Jan 31 02:01:18 only if he creates pages while searching Jan 31 02:01:19 Lcuk: i seem to remember you.... Mms project for n900 correct? Jan 31 02:01:25 hmmm, damn, my phone repair now says "Your job is awaiting delivery of your replacement Nokia handset" Jan 31 02:01:36 hey there are plenty of Chinese devices announcing MeeGo support, they are good fellows! gotta buy a pallet at a time though, and no refunds! Jan 31 02:01:38 Sounds like Nokia are going to replace it rather than repair it Jan 31 02:01:51 MeegoBoy: bad guess Jan 31 02:02:18 odin_: while I know of chinese rumours, I haven't seen any announcements. Do you know more? Jan 31 02:02:29 When I bought my second N900, the salesman assured me his brother works for Nokia and is the head of the MeeGo team, when I pressed him for a name, he said "a head" of "a meego team", and then said he gets alot of secret information from him. I said "eh, meego is pretty open you know", and he said "I mean the prototypes, they're all awesome, I've seen them!". I didn't belive him :P Jan 31 02:02:51 odin_, any shiny ones? Jan 31 02:02:52 jonwil, what was wrong with it? Jan 31 02:03:04 What does meego have to offer thats better than android and/or ios ? That was the question elop has asked. Jan 31 02:03:22 the indicator LED was broken Jan 31 02:03:27 better software, more open community, more open development process Jan 31 02:03:28 and not lighting up Jan 31 02:03:33 ios isn't available for nokia Jan 31 02:03:40 android puts nokia under google's thumb Jan 31 02:03:47 also the front camera wasnt working Jan 31 02:03:57 I am j/k, the product fact pages (if you trawl) claim devices they make support everything, no - no shiny ones, I suspect just a factories trying to sell something Jan 31 02:04:18 people on here suggested the cable linking the screen to the body of the phone was faulty Jan 31 02:04:21 jonwil, was microsd working? Jan 31 02:04:28 yes microsd was working Jan 31 02:04:35 when I backed up Jan 31 02:04:53 N900 was a slow and clunky piece of utter rubbish... Mine is collecting dust right now Jan 31 02:05:02 best phone ever Jan 31 02:05:07 (from nokia) Jan 31 02:05:14 MeegoBoy: interestingly, my N900 is neither slow nor clunky. Jan 31 02:05:20 MeegoBoy: I must be doing something wrong then? Jan 31 02:05:26 I like my N900, its the most open phone available from any manufacturer Jan 31 02:05:29 thiago_home: 1.2 in git? Jan 31 02:05:35 WHen my first one broke I bought a second one because I couldn't stand being without it for the duration of repair for the first one... and there was no better phone availabe yet. This was 2 weeks ago :P Jan 31 02:05:39 olorin_: it should be Jan 31 02:05:41 unless you count experiements like OpenMoko Jan 31 02:05:45 Venemo: i respectfully disagree.... Its a total disaster and a king of clunkiness Jan 31 02:05:46 I will chip in here, my n900 has been doing things I didn't think were possible just this weekend :) Jan 31 02:05:50 which are useless as an actual phone Jan 31 02:05:58 MeegoBoy: what do you mean? Jan 31 02:06:07 lcuk: what are them? :) Jan 31 02:06:12 I think he means the physical dimensions Jan 31 02:06:15 yes, it's thick Jan 31 02:06:25 N900 is the first phone I've had that has been able to read my email :P Jan 31 02:06:34 my C7 is a lot thinner and shinier. But I prefer the N900. Jan 31 02:06:37 Lcuk: utter nonsense...just because it CAN do it, does not mean its doing it GOOD....no? Jan 31 02:06:38 So is the SE X10 mini with a keyboard. Jan 31 02:06:52 MeegoBoy: for example? Jan 31 02:06:53 MeegoBoy, you don't know what it was doing though :) Jan 31 02:06:59 MeeGo-on-n900 is even more open than Maemo is (which is good) and there are efforts to replace or offer alternatives to various of the still-closed packages in the non-oss repo Jan 31 02:07:08 Re: Chinese product claiming MeeGo: http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?SearchText=meego&Country=&IndexArea=product_en&fsb=y Jan 31 02:07:17 thiago_home: no, he said 'slow', which is a lie. Jan 31 02:07:36 well, there's only so much a 600 MHz OMAP3 can do Jan 31 02:07:53 but when it came out, that was top of the line Jan 31 02:07:57 Venemo: mapping... Email... The only somewhat acceptable thing on n900 is the browser... The rest is dogs breakfast Jan 31 02:08:07 thiago_home, I was using my n810 the other day Jan 31 02:08:07 MeegoBoy: why is that? Jan 31 02:08:14 and still enjoyed its performance Jan 31 02:08:16 :) Jan 31 02:08:24 infact moreso because original liqbase is there Jan 31 02:08:28 I find the RAM and IO more limiting than the CPU.. Adding a MicroSDHC and moving some IO pressure to that improved responsiveness alot for me Jan 31 02:09:13 Poking things with a stylus is an utter disaster in 2011 Jan 31 02:09:24 MeegoBoy: which is why the device was launched in 2009 Jan 31 02:09:40 and don't forget that there are many demographics where a stylus is very useful Jan 31 02:09:43 MeegoBoy, but writing with your fingers is a nightmare too Jan 31 02:09:50 i grew up and stopped finger painting Jan 31 02:09:50 Thiago: yest and then abandoned after 6 months Jan 31 02:10:02 MeegoBoy: I rarely use a stylus, but on those rare occasions I use it, I found it very useful. Jan 31 02:10:36 I use it when playing widelands :) Jan 31 02:10:38 anyway, i am going back to slumber Jan 31 02:10:47 gnite chaps n trolls \o Jan 31 02:10:52 ShadowJK: :-p Jan 31 02:10:53 MeegoBoy: anyway, did you come here only to play a flamewar with us or do you have some better purpose? Jan 31 02:11:26 And when copy-pasting stuff it's nicer because my finger isn't obscuring the text as much :P Jan 31 02:11:39 I used the stylus to scratch the inside of my ear.... Its nonsense to have a stylus in todays day and age Jan 31 02:12:34 Why is it nonsense? Jan 31 02:12:55 Its not intuitive Jan 31 02:13:00 MeegoBoy: why not? Jan 31 02:13:15 Because its counterintuitive Jan 31 02:13:19 MeegoBoy: lol Jan 31 02:13:25 What makes it counterintuitive? Jan 31 02:13:32 Having to p Jan 31 02:13:38 MeegoBoy: so how would you select small links on a webpage without a stylus? Jan 31 02:13:45 Having to pull the damn thing out to poke at a screen Jan 31 02:14:02 Err, how do you draw or hand write without? Jan 31 02:14:10 By using a finger like a civilized os would do Jan 31 02:14:21 olorin_, you zoom in to get the precision with finger, then you zoom out for overview, and soom in on the second place Jan 31 02:14:47 ShadowJK: That is counterintutive. Jan 31 02:15:09 The biggest myth of stylus lovers: "stykus Jan 31 02:15:11 Whereas with a narrower finger or stylus you can stay zoomed out and see the entire overview of the points of interest at once Jan 31 02:15:45 You can do it both ways on Maemo Jan 31 02:15:52 The biggest myth of stylus lovers: " stylus is more accurate" ....utter bullcrap unsupported by facts....nonsense Jan 31 02:15:54 ShadowJK: Which mean I would have to be a fetus. Jan 31 02:16:00 MeegoBoy: seriously, why don't you go and bugger off? Jan 31 02:16:24 Venemo: lighten up mate Jan 31 02:16:33 MeegoBoy: I'm bored of you Jan 31 02:16:39 MeegoBoy, so what makes stylus less accurate? Jan 31 02:17:14 MeegoBoy: you are a typical troll. you don't have anything original, you just whine about those things that people were whining about for years. Jan 31 02:17:18 ShadowJK: i didnt say stylus is less accurate...it counterintuitive Jan 31 02:18:17 Resistive screens are a disaster.... A blunder on nokias part Jan 31 02:18:22 * lcuk looks at a Renoir painting and wonders if he used his finger Jan 31 02:18:28 A trackball would be cool Jan 31 02:18:47 lcuk: Neither did Munch. Jan 31 02:19:48 After 20 some years in computer and mobile engineering it boggles my mind that a resistive screens are still produced Jan 31 02:20:56 MeegoBoy: 20 years? Why didn't you chose a more mature nick then? Jan 31 02:21:04 MeegoBoy, since you have finger on the pulse then, which screen technology do you think we need? Jan 31 02:21:28 Sometimes i need to stoop down to the level of my audience....mingle with the common folk.... Jan 31 02:21:36 * lcuk would personally like resistive multitouch like the Statums Jan 31 02:21:39 * ShadowJK 'd like RGB Jan 31 02:21:46 lcuk, wide-screen, yay! Jan 31 02:21:55 i think it doesnt matter the tech though Jan 31 02:22:00 same software works on both Jan 31 02:22:06 and not RGBGRG Jan 31 02:22:14 badly written software is bad no matter what Jan 31 02:22:24 it does get shown by stylus requirement tho Jan 31 02:22:45 ShadowJK, ahh you mean pentile lower resolution stuff? Jan 31 02:22:49 yeah Jan 31 02:23:04 * lcuk remembers being laughed at for making liqbase use half resolution color channels Jan 31 02:23:04 The stuff that makes photos pretty but text crap Jan 31 02:23:24 then I laughed when the latest hardware did it embedded Jan 31 02:23:27 Well atleast you still have full resolution for white/grey/black :) Jan 31 02:23:46 yup Jan 31 02:24:08 crystal clear strokes with my STYLUS Jan 31 02:24:45 I wonder if they'll give up with this amoled madness soon, supply constrained isn't nice place to be :P Jan 31 02:24:48 Styluses are for 1990s Jan 31 02:25:19 MeegoBoy, depends on the use, handwriting is something non western countries need more than Western Jan 31 02:26:06 Lcuk: just as easy with the finger Jan 31 02:26:14 You could still draw screen-sized glyphs with your finger, I guess. writing paragraphs and seeing only one letter at a time is probably painful, though :) Jan 31 02:26:48 MeegoBoy, on my 10 inch capacitive, I get about the same writing definition as my 3.5inch resistive Jan 31 02:27:04 i have to write using chalkboard size letters Jan 31 02:27:21 Lcuk: not true Jan 31 02:27:23 if I try writing with my finger as if I were holding a pen or stylus it does not work Jan 31 02:27:36 absofuckinglutely true, you are asking the wrong person Jan 31 02:28:15 Ever seen girls trying to use capacitive screens? I'd call the "intuitive" claim into doubt :P Jan 31 02:29:07 lol Jan 31 02:30:03 MeegoBoy, old, resistive tech: http://liqbase.net/liqbase_big.JPG new capacitive: http://liqbase.net/liqbase_big_ideapad.ttt.20110103_003.jpg Jan 31 02:30:27 note the amount of detail I get on the n810 in the first picture compared to a similar tile from the ideapad Jan 31 02:31:17 and thats the same app on various things, the highest information density came with the x41 which was 10inch and had a digitizing pen thingamibob Jan 31 02:32:00 note the meego ideapad is awesome for playing tictactoe on Jan 31 02:32:08 capacitive does have its benefits Jan 31 02:38:40 I'm guessing information density is slightly lower for N900 than N810? Jan 31 02:39:26 yes but not noticably, I have many detailed notes taken on it Jan 31 02:39:37 but on the ideapad and even the n900 without stylus Jan 31 02:39:49 i can barely note a movie name down with my finger Jan 31 02:39:53 at least legibly Jan 31 02:40:05 (I whip out and write things to remember) Jan 31 02:40:27 lemme upload a recent sketch to highlight this, it was finger only cos stylus was at home Jan 31 02:40:33 Lcuk: simply your opinion mate, 1 in a million...sorry Jan 31 02:40:52 you were nt sounding like 1 in a million before Jan 31 02:41:40 * lcuk scrolls past a load of random letters for some reason Jan 31 02:41:40 What? Jan 31 02:44:27 I was utterly disappointed in n900 ... A marketing disaster for nokia....a blunder Jan 31 02:44:48 * jonwil wonders why xorg-x11-drv-fbdev-sgx is closed in MeeGo when the matching xserver-xorg-video-fbdev package was not closed in Maemo Fremantle Jan 31 02:45:07 -sgx? Jan 31 02:45:22 lcuk, touching N900 screen with finger is a disaster, but touchscreens on many phones are much easier to use than N900 with stylus. Jan 31 02:46:42 Before PR1.2 or 1.3 something, if you ran the screen calibration thing the touchscreen stopped working properly :) Jan 31 02:47:07 Alison_Chaiken, its not a problem of missed touches, its just so imprecise for note taking to use a fat finger Jan 31 02:47:25 each letter I write is smaller than the hit area of my fingerpad Jan 31 02:47:54 * lcuk gives up going back to sleep Jan 31 02:48:47 The HTC G1 I have is slightly older than the N900 (which is the only reason I own it). I much, much prefer its capacitive touchscreen with my finger to the N900 with stylus. The N900 regularly makes me curse out loud, although perhaps that says more about me than about the phone. Jan 31 02:49:17 i dont use my stylus for naviation and stuff Jan 31 02:49:24 and only get it out to write Jan 31 02:49:45 * lcuk never noticed UI actions being a problem without it Jan 31 02:50:39 There's one part of the UI that has elements smaller than a fingerprint, and that's the internet connections advanced settings dialog :P Jan 31 02:50:57 Alison_Chaiken, where specifically makes you curse on n900? Jan 31 02:51:25 ShadowJK, thats a complex dialog indeed! Jan 31 02:52:35 lcuk, even with the stylus I can't scroll selection menus on the N900 without accidentally highlighting some choices unintentionally. I often go to windows I don't intend and have to go back. It drives me nuts. I can't wait to get rid of the resistive touchscreen. Jan 31 02:52:56 Lcuk: there you go " get it out" you said it yourself...the biggest failure with a stylus is that its counterintuitive and you have to get the damn thig out....fail Jan 31 02:53:19 Alison_Chaiken, touch selection cursing is a common issue Jan 31 02:53:24 BTW, the ExoPC and WeTab work great with finger, assuming you can get the hid_egalax driver installed properly! Jan 31 02:53:45 MeegoBoy, if I want to write a letter, I have to get a pen out Jan 31 02:54:02 MeeGoBoy, the biggest problem with the stylus is that even with it, the touchscreen is difficult to use! Jan 31 02:54:20 Alison_Chaiken, thats a different issue Jan 31 02:54:26 lcuk, put those pens away and try switching to email. You'll be glad you did. Jan 31 02:54:45 Alison_Chaiken, :) Jan 31 02:54:51 ask me again next week. Jan 31 02:55:08 i might have a compromise Jan 31 02:55:35 One issue I have is that the distance from the touch layer to the display layer is kinda big, so the touch point on the screen looks to be in a different position depending on the angle you view it at, even if the touch point on the touch display itself was entirely accurate (which, if not accurate by default out of the box, was impossible to calibrate until 1.2 or 1.3) Jan 31 02:55:58 ShadowJK, extreme angles Jan 31 02:56:15 my n810 has dodgy touchscreen at the moment Jan 31 02:56:21 and the calibration tool is funny Jan 31 02:56:32 it says "click here,here,here,here to calibrate Jan 31 02:56:49 but if you click directly over them (my screen is wayyyy out of alignment) it says try clicking closer Jan 31 02:56:58 as if it knows! Jan 31 02:57:15 * lcuk dislikes computers trying to second guess humans Jan 31 02:57:34 hehe Jan 31 02:58:01 i have been slowly pulling the calibration in Jan 31 02:58:13 training it pixel by pixel closer to the little bullseyes :) Jan 31 02:58:33 hm, is the tscalibrate tool for N810 opensauce? Jan 31 02:58:38 idk Jan 31 02:58:54 never looked, my ts was pretty bang on accurate on my 810 Jan 31 02:59:00 until I unpacked it recently Jan 31 02:59:02 The N900 one is, I vaguely recall compiling my own to fix the accuracy issue as screen edges before they fixed it in a PR **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jan 31 02:59:57 2011