**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Feb 10 02:59:57 2011 Feb 10 07:09:02 so, nokia failed meego? Feb 10 07:10:08 ;( I want to be nokia fanboi again Feb 10 07:10:15 but its becomeing impossibleeeeee Feb 10 07:13:19 thresh: we're still at work, so no? also, don't read too many rumours, they rot your mind :) Feb 10 07:13:28 especially when it's been parsed and reiterated several times Feb 10 07:13:55 :) Feb 10 07:14:22 st ahh the rumor mill and speculation Feb 10 07:14:31 isnt it fun how it spins out of control so fast :) Feb 10 07:14:38 its not really Feb 10 07:14:43 raster: i vote we start a rumor that nokia switches to bada + efl Feb 10 07:14:49 as it actually shows problems Feb 10 07:14:54 hahahaha Feb 10 07:15:01 nah Feb 10 07:15:08 nokia switches to windowsME Feb 10 07:15:14 :) Feb 10 07:15:35 No, MeeGo is late because it wasn't fast enough so it's going to be redone using gentoo Feb 10 07:15:44 hehe Feb 10 07:16:20 When you boot up the device for the first time, you enter your name, Ovi account and optimization level Feb 10 07:16:21 more funroll-loops! Feb 10 07:16:57 no. they'll base everything on dos 6.22 Feb 10 07:17:07 ah, closer to the hardware Feb 10 07:18:52 jnwi: hahahah! meego needs more funrolls! :) Feb 10 07:19:06 or rickrolls Feb 10 07:20:29 what about winlinux 2001 Feb 10 07:20:37 thats a good choice Feb 10 07:21:19 vax/vms Feb 10 07:27:37 MeeGo, now running on an ITS KS10 near you. Feb 10 07:29:32 anybody using applauncherd(booster things)?? Feb 10 07:30:15 I'm wondering if an application is supposed to run by 'invoke' or it's just be 'READY' or something Feb 10 07:32:29 REMINDER: nokia n900 hardware adaptation meeting in 30 minutes in #meego-meeting Feb 10 07:32:43 JunJi: check duicontrolpanel / readme.txt of applauncherd Feb 10 07:33:57 Surely did, but it looks like dated. (it's talking about libraries in /usr/lib/applaucherd but there is no libs in the latest.) Feb 10 07:34:11 ah, well, the pkgconfig stuff should be what matters Feb 10 07:34:12 I'm looking at the code. will try more Feb 10 07:34:23 hmm.. Feb 10 07:36:21 if the pkgconfig could be 'CONFIG += ...' of .pro file, I agree. It seems the meegotouch-boostable isn't avaiable now. Feb 10 07:42:09 ning Feb 10 08:01:18 REMINDER: nokia n900 hardware adaptation meeting in 1 minutes in #meego-meeting Feb 10 08:13:48 morning Feb 10 08:27:41 fiouas72.ebgroup.elektrobit.com Feb 10 08:32:00 hi Feb 10 08:32:32 is there anyone who could help me with meego toolbar panel Feb 10 09:17:50 Stskeeps: did you really say what he claims you said? http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=940740&postcount=4 Feb 10 09:18:47 Venemo_N900: well, that was what he chose to interpret it as Feb 10 09:19:46 Venemo_N900: in truth it just shows that people don't understand the bureaucracy that goes on in any distro Feb 10 09:20:33 igo: pong Feb 10 09:20:33 I think it's simply more evidant because the bureaucracy is fairly transparent not ala gogle Feb 10 09:21:06 probably the first time he's heard of software projects having test suites Feb 10 09:22:19 what arfoll said.. i mean, most of the stuff in meego is typical release process and QA, when you want to build a quality product Feb 10 09:22:45 Stskeeps: ok Feb 10 09:23:05 Stskeeps: so you didn't say not to touch it with an 5m stick :D Feb 10 09:23:08 http://en.opensuse.org/File:OpenFATE_feature_handling_flow.png - opensuse Feb 10 09:23:11 Venemo_N900: of course not Feb 10 09:23:19 :) Feb 10 09:26:54 * lbt likes opensuse a little more now... Feb 10 09:28:09 (although pointing at that diagram to identify a bug in the svg/png rendering of something somewhere would be funny - floating yes/no) Feb 10 09:35:12 Venemo_N900: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=940753&postcount=5 Feb 10 09:37:48 Stskeeps, you'll have to reference if you quote me ;-) Feb 10 09:38:18 done Feb 10 09:38:18 :P Feb 10 09:39:02 lol Feb 10 09:40:55 hello guys Feb 10 09:40:59 morn Feb 10 09:41:14 whats this shit i read in the news - nokia giving up on meego devices? Feb 10 09:41:27 korgoth, you like reading IRC logs? Feb 10 09:41:45 korgoth: rumours reparsed and reiterated until they claim nokia wants to go back to tires Feb 10 09:41:59 arfoll: its not one of my fav things to do, but if the information there will be helpful and reliable i will Feb 10 09:42:11 korgoth, won't be reliable Feb 10 09:42:29 it's rumours wait for friday Feb 10 09:42:54 i will i will :-) Feb 10 09:43:02 nokia + win phone 7 is also only rumours i hope? Feb 10 09:43:15 we work with meego.com, what do we know? Feb 10 09:43:26 anything not on a nokia press release is probably rumours :) Feb 10 09:45:33 :) Feb 10 09:45:40 ok then, any rumours about nokia + android? Feb 10 09:45:53 go view talk.maemo.org, plenty there Feb 10 09:47:17 http://www.rcrwireless.com/article/20110209/DEVICES/110209944/0 etc? Feb 10 09:47:54 in about 24 hours we should all know how screwed we are, so Feb 10 09:48:31 :) Feb 10 09:48:45 i guess the news will be loudly announced here no matter what Feb 10 09:49:39 Stskeeps, you sound a bit too positive ;) Feb 10 09:50:30 FunkyPenguin: about? bureaucracy? Feb 10 09:51:28 I sense sarcasm :) Feb 10 09:52:29 lbt: Thanks for getting back to me - I think I have things sorted. Feb 10 09:52:43 lbt: We're trying to get a login to the MeeGo OBS mothership Feb 10 09:53:08 jeremiah: i thought you had one already? Feb 10 09:53:18 I have one, we need another Feb 10 09:53:28 ah Feb 10 09:53:36 We're building a local OBS that we want to sync with MeeGo Feb 10 09:53:59 you don't need a login for that as such, just obs linking Feb 10 09:54:19 hi everyone Feb 10 09:54:24 where is the nokia troll chan? Feb 10 09:54:33 KevinB: #meego-bar maybe, start a fight Feb 10 09:54:33 :P Feb 10 09:54:41 :p Feb 10 09:54:41 Stskeeps: Oh, okay. I'll see if I can't dig up that document Feb 10 09:54:57 jeremiah: at least obs linking is available and works Feb 10 09:55:13 Stskeeps: Fantastic, that is good to hear. =) Feb 10 09:55:58 Stskeeps, mostly the rumours. scuttle butt is a great way to badly damage a perfectly good ship Feb 10 09:56:15 dont getme wrong im not saying things a rosey but... Feb 10 09:58:16 FunkyPenguin: ah - i do agree meego isn't proceeding as fast as it could and there's many reasons for this, but it would be suicidal to switch to WP7 (intense delays), drop MeeGo (and use Symbian, are you high?), .. there's really no logical conclusion than to restructure the nokia machine to a meego reality Feb 10 09:58:57 in the meantime we have to deal with crap rumours like "According to the same source, when the Finnish giant ran a build of MeeGo on it, the results were highly unsatisfactory, in fact, the system crashed "all the time". When they loaded Microsoft's latest smartphone operating system, the handset was working fine." Feb 10 09:59:52 ... what s that rumors? anyway wp7 gives hardwares contraints Feb 10 10:00:56 I guess the goal in all this is to get crying shareholders re-assured Feb 10 10:01:42 FunkyPenguin: let's pretend the smeegol stuff didn't happen, what issues do you see in meego? as in, meego core + verticals/aims Feb 10 10:02:11 just curious about your view :) Feb 10 10:03:03 Stskeeps, thats a tough one Feb 10 10:03:23 part of the issue is the shotgun approach - meego wants to be in every vertical Feb 10 10:03:31 so the resources are too thinky spread Feb 10 10:03:39 err thinly even Feb 10 10:03:59 right, having had qt components early on would have helped issues a great deal Feb 10 10:04:18 the whole mtf/mx stuff just confused stuff Feb 10 10:04:57 so there was more synergy on core Feb 10 10:05:01 yeah, the plan they had for maemo (as i understood it) made sense Feb 10 10:05:17 have a realease or two with transitioning from gtk to qt Feb 10 10:06:04 my angle was that we built a organisation + processes while at same time trying to deliver a release, so people were flailing around in the dark Feb 10 10:06:30 the process and organisation is mostly there now, but the delay caused is obvious Feb 10 10:07:20 my other issue is why build a distro from scratch? using another distro as the base and building ontop of it would have expedited things Feb 10 10:07:34 and also shown how well they can work in the community Feb 10 10:07:37 well we didn't, moblin was base Feb 10 10:08:05 ah but moblin was a distro built from pieces of others - ubuntu/fedora/opensuse Feb 10 10:08:20 picking one and going with it would have been much better Feb 10 10:08:48 dont get me wrong - im not trying to critisise or anything Feb 10 10:08:58 things were done and at the time made sense to someone Feb 10 10:09:00 actually i do want you to (constructively) critisise :) Feb 10 10:09:06 otoh, i kinda like the current result - we have a lean and mean stack Feb 10 10:09:12 heh Feb 10 10:09:33 it's very nice to port and there's a reason for every package to be there Feb 10 10:09:36 (mostly) Feb 10 10:09:51 ok, there is another issue i noticed Feb 10 10:10:24 moblin had a pretty small community around it - mostly partners but there were some community folk Feb 10 10:10:43 things were pretty open (or at least from my pov) Feb 10 10:11:18 they worked differently, more like a traditional distro or upstream gnome Feb 10 10:11:29 mainly because a lot of the guys were upstream gnome devs Feb 10 10:12:17 maemo, had a huge community but with very few partners Feb 10 10:12:45 maemo didnt seem to have consumer appeal - devs/hackers liked the device Feb 10 10:12:57 problem is it was a geek's device Feb 10 10:13:07 and Nokia marketed it as such, not mass market Feb 10 10:13:21 right, looking for the connection with meego :) Feb 10 10:13:57 when meego came about, the moblin community were drowned by the maemo community Feb 10 10:14:10 the noise to signal ratio went through the roof Feb 10 10:14:48 as a result the few community folk from moblin switched off Feb 10 10:15:02 well, we do see some of them around still (slaine, etc) Feb 10 10:15:02 also the devs from moblin seemed to have gone silent Feb 10 10:15:14 yes, not all left Feb 10 10:15:41 the other issue is the hugely conflicting/confusing message/vision Feb 10 10:16:07 it often seems like meego is chasing its own tail and just going round in circles Feb 10 10:16:42 the merge wasn't too pretty.. from maemo community (which really consists of many different types of groups) side, developers didn't really have a room as we didn't have a SDK, platform hackers had a ball, community people were upset due to the organisation that focused on execution for platform, not for end-users Feb 10 10:17:12 as well as the bloody personality split between meego being for end users vs a platform Feb 10 10:17:14 basically, no-one really understood what meego was Feb 10 10:18:07 when the platforms were seperate it made sense, maybe not the correct one but at least people knew what each meant Feb 10 10:18:12 :nod: Feb 10 10:18:54 in an ideal world, meego would have been an independant environment, like gnome or kde Feb 10 10:19:31 well, that's the UX'es Feb 10 10:19:38 Maybe someone should create a foss meego instance Feb 10 10:19:40 the stack is really what matters in long term Feb 10 10:19:52 Something that tries to target end users. Feb 10 10:19:59 yeah but there isnt a cohesive movement to concentrate on the UX Feb 10 10:20:00 alterego: i have occasionally thought about that Feb 10 10:20:21 alterego: bring back Mer, etc Feb 10 10:20:22 :P Feb 10 10:20:27 too much effort is spent selling Core Feb 10 10:20:33 no-one cares about core Feb 10 10:20:48 Yeah, but then, you'd home that we could make a decent enough handset UX as to make it user friendly? Feb 10 10:20:49 no, the maemo community doesn't care about core Feb 10 10:20:55 the benefits of meego-core vs fedora/opensuse/ubuntu are almost non-existant Feb 10 10:21:05 s/home/hope/ Feb 10 10:21:06 alterego meant: Yeah, but then, you'd hope that we could make a decent enough handset UX as to make it user friendly? Feb 10 10:21:23 FunkyPenguin: well, that's where i would disagree, but that discussion is better over a beer Feb 10 10:21:23 also the other bug bear is the number of forked packages in the UX Feb 10 10:21:40 FunkyPenguin: (meego-core vs fedora/opensuse/ubuntu) Feb 10 10:21:46 Stskeeps, any discussion over a beer is a good one ;) Feb 10 10:22:09 I think we need to put a lot more work into the handset UX, it's the black spot in MeeGo, but also one of the most important instances. Feb 10 10:22:09 i've tried to adapt ubuntu on to n8x0-n900 like devices and i can tell you, there's good reasons for meego-core being like it is at places :) Feb 10 10:22:35 if it wasn't, we'd have seen proper mobile deployments of those already Feb 10 10:22:56 The netbook ux for instance is pretty refined, and seems nice. Why is the handset UX such a dog? :D Feb 10 10:22:59 Stskeeps: so what's the advantage of meego core compared to fedora core? Feb 10 10:23:15 Stskeeps: or, better question Feb 10 10:23:16 alterego, if you use a moblin 2.1 image you'll realise quickly no one has worked on it for a while Feb 10 10:23:30 dont get me wrong, im not saying it was pointless, but this is where working with upstream - properly- would have worked better Feb 10 10:23:30 alterego: Because Moblin had no handset UX? =) Feb 10 10:23:48 Stskeeps: why does it take less effort to build meego core on scratch instead of basing on top of fedora core? Feb 10 10:24:00 RST38h, thats the point - moblin wasnt designed or aimed at handsets Feb 10 10:24:04 it just happens to be the least worst of the UXs. Intel + nokia don't care too much for the UX, they want to provide a good core so people can build devices with their own look 'n' feel ala weetab Feb 10 10:24:22 FunkyPenguin, not true, moorestown phones shipped to devs with moblin Feb 10 10:24:37 Funky: Thank you, Cpt Obvious Feb 10 10:24:47 :) Feb 10 10:24:50 Venemo_N900: in truth, meego has a lot of fedora core stuff in it - but it's shaped to work on mobile devices - you can't reuse desktop/server things too easily there Feb 10 10:24:51 I thought the reference UX was supposed to be customisable by ISVs Feb 10 10:24:55 FunkyPenguin, upstream's goal in most cases is to ship a desktop or server distro. If something takes an extra 10MB of RAM or 30MB of disk space or if it keeps the CPU awake, it's not a huge deal Feb 10 10:25:22 or increases startup time.. Feb 10 10:25:35 or drags in mysql. Feb 10 10:25:36 :P Feb 10 10:25:43 Which is already a problem. Feb 10 10:25:47 Stskeeps: so why not contribute all this work back to fc? Feb 10 10:26:10 Venemo_N900: because chances are that you'll need a hell lot of ifdefs for mobile usage :) Feb 10 10:26:50 'ifdefs' as in, you'll end up with something looking like meego core anyway and people upset their server distro doesn't work as intended anymore Feb 10 10:26:59 Oo, HP web os tablets Feb 10 10:27:00 and you don't want to upset old sysadmins Feb 10 10:27:01 :P Feb 10 10:27:15 Stskeeps: so if by chance someone from fedora community would want to use fedora on a tablet, they would need this work anyway Feb 10 10:27:28 * FunkyPenguin goes to do some work Feb 10 10:27:30 yes, as witnessed by Mer and many other attempts Feb 10 10:27:32 FunkyPenguin: tty Feb 10 10:27:33 l Feb 10 10:27:34 Stskeeps: fedora is not a server distro. although it can be used as such Feb 10 10:27:45 Venemo_N900: still Feb 10 10:27:54 isn't fedora just a testground for RHEL? Feb 10 10:28:05 there's also the stuff about making commercial deployment easier in meego Feb 10 10:28:30 arfoll: not really. read their mission statement Feb 10 10:28:55 Venemo_N900, but it has desktop-oriented goals, such as providing all the features they can Feb 10 10:29:03 Venemo_N900, it was tongue in cheek Feb 10 10:29:20 Also, meego core needs to be meego to maintain the security from possibly prosecution? Feb 10 10:30:19 patents and the like. Feb 10 10:32:17 so basically, changing a desktop distro to work optimally on a phone would require some seriously invasive work, and at the same time likely have a negative effect on the desktop users in at least the short-to-medium term (bugs introduced while splitting or optimizing packages) Feb 10 10:32:55 for it to get anywhere you'd have to have full cooperation with the people involved in planning releases of that distro, and even then there's a pretty clear conflict of interest in a lot of cases Feb 10 10:34:14 johnx: Well, to begin with, the kernel stuff mostly stays unchanged Feb 10 10:34:31 johnx: Compilation options change of course, many modules are dropped, but it is still the same kernel Feb 10 10:34:38 RST38h, true. it stays unchanged because the phones and the desktop would use different ones anyways :) Feb 10 10:34:51 and they'd probably even track a slightly different release Feb 10 10:35:01 kinda late to this conversation Feb 10 10:35:01 johnx: Possibly, but does not have to be so. Feb 10 10:35:06 You're probably all spent now ;) Feb 10 10:35:12 couple of things Feb 10 10:35:22 RST38h, no. it doesn't *have* to be, but I could definitely see situations where it's likely to be Feb 10 10:35:35 johnx: If you are making a consumer device, you definitely want something -stable rather than -mad-penguins Feb 10 10:35:56 johnx: But what changes is the desktop Feb 10 10:36:11 johnx:Anything above command line will be completley different Feb 10 10:36:26 as well as some of the libs Feb 10 10:36:36 johnx: Now, if you are willing to call all this high-level stuff "an OS", that is ok Feb 10 10:36:45 compile libfoo without libbar support to save 600K at the cost of printing support or somesuch Feb 10 10:36:49 johnx: But to me, it is pretty much the same OS, with a different desktop Feb 10 10:36:50 1) There was very little in the way of a Moblin community in fairness FunkyPenguin. Yourself, arfoll one or two others who's nicks I can't spell and myself where probably the most active ones and we're still here. There where a few guys that tried to adapt it to some company projects (that's how I got interested) but ultimately there wasn't much Feb 10 10:37:19 johnx: to me, what you are saying sounds more like not including certian packages Feb 10 10:37:25 RST38h, this is going to end up with you recommending a more BSD approach, isn't it? Feb 10 10:37:31 johnx: there won't be many cases where you will have to cull libraries Feb 10 10:37:33 The majority of questions we got about "moblin" were realted to the Ubunutu moblin remix and how to do stuff on Ubuntu Feb 10 10:37:42 johnx: Not sure what BSD approach is here Feb 10 10:38:03 the more interesting discussion is obviously why meego didn't use gentoo ;p Feb 10 10:38:07 johnx: In terms of organization, BSD is pretty much the same as Linux Feb 10 10:38:11 RST38h, a more clear separation of OS and 'packages' Feb 10 10:38:59 Stskeeps: Because Gentoo fans at Intel have not been able to demonstrate a single functioning install of Gentoo to the management? :) Feb 10 10:39:16 johnx: Debian separates them just fine Feb 10 10:39:22 slaine, I think where it went wrong was when the merge happened and nokia made all the maemo guys believe they'd have a new device/platform like maemo Feb 10 10:39:28 RST38h, sure, but that will change release-to-release Feb 10 10:39:31 johnx: Not sure about Redhat (had some really bad experiences with Centos) Feb 10 10:39:44 2) I can't see how you thought Moblin was open and community focused as a project. I found it to be the complete opposite as did most of the people I talked to on IRC early on when it was announced. They eventually drifted off as nothing really seemed to change. One or too came back when MeeGo came along but then disappeared soon after. I found dealing with upstream Moblin like shouting into an abyss. There was too much attention given to hardware partners an Feb 10 10:39:45 nothing released to the community Feb 10 10:39:54 Stskeeps, the more interesting question I'd have is actually about OE, but I'll buy you a beer to hear your thoughts on that :) Feb 10 10:40:43 johnx: saw yocto? Feb 10 10:40:50 johnx: But anyway, I am not sure what is all this obsession with the choice of the core OS is about Feb 10 10:40:57 slaine, i think moblin in the community was more of an accident than a vision Feb 10 10:41:23 johnx: You should be able to compile your desktop/services stuff on any OS that provides you with POSIX and Qt Feb 10 10:41:26 Stskeeps, apparently I have since my browser says that I visited their site before ... will read (again I guess) Feb 10 10:41:35 johnx: Meego, Redhat, Debian, or FreeBSD, who cares? Feb 10 10:42:06 RST38h, uhm, yes? I don't think I was disagreeing with that :) Feb 10 10:42:18 I could if you'd like :D Feb 10 10:42:18 3) Moblin DID have a handset UX, it was called Moblin for MIDS and it looked pretty good (clearly and inspiration for the current meego handset ux, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-aAC5ofAeQ&feature=related) Unfortunately it was never relaesed and I've asked to get my hands on it a few times Feb 10 10:42:25 johnx: If somebody is have paranoid thoughts about Meego, for example, they should be able to take their favorite OSS OS and use that Feb 10 10:42:55 arfoll: Yes, at the time I blogged that I thought the maemo guys came out the worst in what they lost Feb 10 10:43:01 RST38h, yeah, with the understanding that they might lose some specific optimization patches unless they add those in by hand Feb 10 10:43:10 johnx: You weren't, but a lot of people here and especially on tmo are pretty religious about the choice of the core OS, for no apparent reason Feb 10 10:43:34 johnx: When using a resource-constrained device, you have to optimize anyway Feb 10 10:43:34 slaine, that UI never worked properly I think, as aava shipped the first aava phones with XFCE Feb 10 10:43:49 slaine, correction - intel shipped Feb 10 10:43:58 RST38h, aaah, ok. I think I thought you were disagreeing with me earlier ... Feb 10 10:44:05 and as for the community being an accident, your spot on. It was a necessary evil to try and establish relationships with ODMs Feb 10 10:44:20 johnx: nah, just explaining my view of the issue, especially after your commend about BSD :) Feb 10 10:44:25 arfoll: Probably didn't work, but what better way to make it work that open the project for contributions Feb 10 10:45:11 I think the intel view was that partners would never want a stock UI so there was no point in wasting dev time on it, it was for demos only to interest ODMS Feb 10 10:45:58 arfoll: Are you an Intel employee? Is it an official view? Feb 10 10:46:12 RST38h, hell no to both Feb 10 10:46:26 arfoll: Then why trying to second-guess them? Feb 10 10:46:27 i guess intel would disagree strongly on those points Feb 10 10:47:03 arfoll: I doubt they would Feb 10 10:47:08 Stskeeps, WRT Yocto, I heard of them first when they kinda-forked angstrom to make poky and they were called openhand Feb 10 10:47:27 They stated all along that the point of the UX's was to give a reference to ODM's Feb 10 10:48:00 slaine, i've never heard it directly Feb 10 10:49:40 this reminds me of something I wanted to ask Feb 10 10:49:53 anwyays all this crying about no UXs, i've got openbox on OBS, what more do people want? Feb 10 10:49:57 in what regards is MeeGo Feb 10 10:50:07 arfoll, windowmaker Feb 10 10:50:20 johnx: +1 Feb 10 10:50:32 RST38h, dockapps.org is still alive :) Feb 10 10:50:32 in what regards is MeeGo any better than Angstrom or OpenEmbedded or any other embedded linux distro? Feb 10 10:50:38 johnx: An iPhone with the original NeXTstep UI! =) Feb 10 10:50:46 johnx, argh you're one of those! Feb 10 10:50:58 Venemo_N900, build system Feb 10 10:51:16 and the fact it's not embedded Feb 10 10:51:22 johnx: I use wmaker too :) Feb 10 10:51:39 johnx: but on touchscreen I use icewm since wmaker wasn't really easy to use without keyboard Feb 10 10:51:40 arfoll: why not? Feb 10 10:51:43 if you like afterstep, wetab seems like a candidate.. Feb 10 10:52:10 lindi-, yeah. at the very least we'd need a patch for 'single-click-to launch' for the dock Feb 10 10:52:45 Venemo_N900, it has most things a classical linux for desktop likes, means dev is much faster, there are packages... Feb 10 10:53:04 s/likes/ Feb 10 10:58:05 slaine, just read - http://slaine.org/_slaine/Blog/Entries/2010/2/16_Meego_Revisited.html Feb 10 10:58:24 very much my view Feb 10 10:58:25 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKFZWZrn-5w Feb 10 10:58:50 Omweather on Meego NetbookUX Feb 10 10:59:27 any way to run current builds on QEMU? Feb 10 10:59:28 the SDK only has version 1.1.2 Feb 10 11:00:08 vasvlad, looks nice. Was the 'type-ahead find' for the text boxes maemo-specific? Feb 10 11:00:10 joppu: i thought the qemu images are built each time a release made Feb 10 11:00:49 yes, but I used the fancy wizard that came with the SDK to download the image Feb 10 11:02:32 does anyone know why in meego > 1.1 when entering mode3 networking is down? Feb 10 11:02:32 johnx, what did you mean? Settings window? Feb 10 11:03:09 vasvlad, yeah. On the N900 you can start to type your country and it will auto-complete it for you Feb 10 11:03:42 anyways, sleeping for real now :) Feb 10 11:04:38 johnx, yes it works in settings window on Meego too Feb 10 11:05:50 johnx, can you test Omweather on your device? Feb 10 11:06:41 Stskeeps: nvm, found the latest QEMU build Feb 10 11:07:17 good Feb 10 11:20:02 arfoll: lol, almost a year to the day since I wrote that Feb 10 11:20:14 yeah, meego birthday coming up Feb 10 11:20:28 was pretty spot on, even if it did ruffle a few feathers. Feb 10 11:20:58 slaine, someone had to say it. I still remember the emails i got when I said look heres moblin 2.2 and wait its got meego all over it Feb 10 11:38:58 hi guys. I'm working on my first test app for MeeGo and have a lot of doubts. i'm using QML to display fancy effects and stuff. I'm wondering if I need to show a dialog window - something like "foobar" text, and accept and cancel buttons- do i need to create that dialog from scratch or there are any kind of common components/widgets that need to be used to provide a smooth UX along the apps? Feb 10 11:39:42 foolano: there will be, there are not right now Feb 10 11:39:46 foolano: i believe qt components is what you'll be looking for Feb 10 11:40:48 thx, gonna take a look at qtcomponents Feb 10 11:40:54 foolano: you can play with this one http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-components -- though this won't be the version making it into meego, so you'll most likely have to adjust your code later Feb 10 11:41:21 Aard: cheers Feb 10 11:41:52 QML is fun but I was missing a sort of standard way of implementing/using components Feb 10 11:42:19 you're too early trying that with meego ;) Feb 10 11:42:32 :) Feb 10 11:43:10 may i ask when should we expect a prod release of those components? Feb 10 11:44:32 can't say. I'd expect it to be show up in 1.3 Feb 10 11:46:52 Aard: fair enough, thx for the info :) Feb 10 11:53:28 not true, i hope: http://www.domain-b.com/industry/telecom/20110210_meego.html Feb 10 11:54:19 dominikb: rumours Feb 10 11:55:02 Stskeeps: i really hope so. Feb 10 11:55:33 Stskeeps: tomorrow we'll all be a lot wiser. Feb 10 12:00:49 dominikb: you need this to be more wise? Get a life! :D Feb 10 12:01:12 It's amazing how seriously people take this stuff :) Feb 10 12:01:26 Like their lives depend on it or something Feb 10 12:01:53 If Nokia move to WP7 and Android, well, they lose me as a customer and developer. Feb 10 12:02:03 Until MeeGo appears of course. Feb 10 12:02:15 and a boatload of talent Feb 10 12:02:41 Heh, they're not going to give up on MeeGo, I can't see that happening. Feb 10 12:02:55 If anything I'd have thought they'd go Web OS over Android :/ Feb 10 12:03:31 It's a lot like MeeGo, more mature and is inline with MeeGo, but even that seems ridiculous to me. Feb 10 12:04:25 On the other hand, I still see Elop as a crazy American, but obviously I'm bias toward open source, etc. His loyalties are with stock holders. Feb 10 12:04:38 alterego: we'll see. life does not depend on it, but i have fallen in love with maemo+qt+pyside. isn't it natural to fear such a loss? ;) ähm, i really should get a life *bg* Feb 10 12:05:07 dominikb: MeeGo will not cease to exist if Nokia choose something else. Feb 10 12:05:34 They just want something to close the gap in their market share for the short term. Feb 10 12:05:42 to me, if nokia drops meego and/or open source ways of doing stuff, is quite a pity Feb 10 12:05:54 Yes, yes it is. Feb 10 12:06:06 after sun wass bought by oracle, not much open source friendly companies do good stuff Feb 10 12:06:16 alterego: that's what puzzles me. if they decide to go for android or win7, it won't be short term. a non-negligeable development effort will be required Feb 10 12:06:18 Well, that's not true :P Feb 10 12:06:33 pinchartl: yes, well, this is all rumour. Feb 10 12:06:49 tomorrow we shall know Feb 10 12:07:07 For all we know he could be announcing the complete drop of support for Symbian and the complete migration to MeeGo and Series 40 :D Feb 10 12:07:07 I'll know tomorrow if I need to update my CV :-) Feb 10 12:07:16 9.30 in finnish time there will be cmd announce Feb 10 12:07:31 so checking that out we know what are the plans Feb 10 12:08:12 i can't wait for tomorrow Feb 10 12:08:25 Oh, now you're excited? :D Feb 10 12:08:34 alterego: complete drop of symbian is not possible Feb 10 12:08:55 av500: anything is "possible". Also, everything seems unlikely. Feb 10 12:09:10 i'm worried, truly, i don't known if i'm a stupid for being worried of the future of a company that i don't even work for, but as a consumer and developer Feb 10 12:09:33 Though I guess looking at recent rumours, drop of Harmatten/MeeGo, drop of the N9 prototype. Feb 10 12:09:45 av500: out of curiousity, why not? if low range is moving towards armv7 too Feb 10 12:10:32 Maybe Elop is just trying to get the Sympathy vote. :D Feb 10 12:11:01 if the choose win7 or android, than they can give up their business too. ;) Feb 10 12:11:12 'Thanked 6,009 Times in 821 Posts' Feb 10 12:11:14 jesus Feb 10 12:11:16 Stskeeps: long term for sure, as in 3rd world pax moving up to a smart phone Feb 10 12:11:21 i have invested 21 % of my stock portfolio to Nokia so i am little bit scary..because i am Qt fanboy and if there comes somekind stupid android + windows stuff.. Feb 10 12:11:27 Stskeeps: I don't see the <5EUR range moving to armv7 before a couple of years :-) Feb 10 12:11:52 s/5/50/ Feb 10 12:11:53 pinchartl meant: Stskeeps: I don't see the <50EUR range moving to armv7 before a couple of years :-) Feb 10 12:12:03 TuOki^: as a stock holder, you dont care about qt, you care about profit, no? Feb 10 12:12:14 occasionally it'd be nice to know what the various SoC's actually cost Feb 10 12:12:21 i care future of company and future is Qt Feb 10 12:12:40 TuOki^: if you say so :) Feb 10 12:12:44 ;) Feb 10 12:13:14 I'm sure Elop has thought long and hard about the benifits of using another development platform over the benifits of using Qt, which, is great and is already out in devices. Feb 10 12:13:35 and that your staff is already trained in/getting trained in.. Feb 10 12:13:43 i think that best thing what Nokia did in couple years was buying Trolltech ..and they did not even pay much Feb 10 12:13:48 He obviously has more insight, but I can't see them dropping Qt for something like Android. Feb 10 12:14:04 Hey, has anyone here looked at trying to run up Meego in the Zenithin ZT-180A http://cgi.ebay.com.au/10-2-ePad-ZT-180-Google-ANDROID-2-2-Tablet-PC-CASE-/330524585926?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item4cf4ccefc6#ht_8976wt_1074 Feb 10 12:14:08 Because it just doesn't work on their mid end devices' hardware. Feb 10 12:14:42 zutesmog: ouch, my eyes hurt now Feb 10 12:14:55 yeah, forgive me for that link ;-) Feb 10 12:15:32 zutesmog: provide an adaptation kernel and all will be dandy Feb 10 12:16:08 zt-180a. what's that? Feb 10 12:16:15 chinese Feb 10 12:16:19 1ghz arm11 Feb 10 12:16:20 Also, I think I can be happy with my N900 for a few years to come. Feb 10 12:16:27 armv6, so bad luck Feb 10 12:16:50 If anything they'll be saving me money as I wont be so eager to get the latest greatest "internet tablet" from them every year. Feb 10 12:17:14 ahh. bummer. Feb 10 12:17:38 btw, http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2011/02/09/month-with-nexus-s/ Feb 10 12:19:40 Looking for a cheap 10" tablet resistive or capacitive, to run meego or ubuntu, for a POS app. (basically a cut down touch screen cash register app). Feb 10 12:20:10 zutesmog: for a pos you might even prefer resistive Feb 10 12:20:20 as ppl tend to hammer on them Feb 10 12:20:26 yeah. My thoughts too. Feb 10 12:21:01 zutesmog: afaik, meego support for so no hypercharged arm9 or arm11 Feb 10 12:21:31 ok, missed that. Feb 10 12:22:25 trying to see what arm version ubuntu supports Feb 10 12:22:34 av500: in truth we still maintain armv5, just not active builds Feb 10 12:22:45 Stskeeps: you know more than me :) Feb 10 12:22:49 ie, when people send reports it's broken, we fix it Feb 10 12:24:16 looks like ubuntu is fairly v7 focused too. Will keep looking for an ARM v7 tablet ;-) Feb 10 12:39:05 Anyone that will attend to meego summit in april ? Feb 10 12:39:09 <- Feb 10 12:39:28 AOL! Feb 10 12:39:32 only if they give out freebie meego phones :) Feb 10 12:39:41 heheh Feb 10 12:39:42 :) Feb 10 12:39:53 (they thats the only reason people go to google i/o) :) Feb 10 12:39:57 I'll probably wait until tomorrow until deciding :-) Feb 10 12:40:00 * RST38h moos at raster evilly Feb 10 12:40:15 raster: Only after Samsung gives out freebie linux phones! =) Feb 10 12:40:19 * raster burrps at RST38h smellily Feb 10 12:40:31 RST38h: that can be arranged :) Feb 10 12:40:50 and yes yes i know Feb 10 12:40:57 obit_sweden: if you haven't registered yet that decision has been made for you Feb 10 12:41:02 raster: Are you simply waiting for all the Maemo/Meego fanatics to get desperate enough? =) Feb 10 12:41:30 RST38h: well i'm kind of hoping that there can be a meeting of the minds re meego and sammy Feb 10 12:41:45 let's see Feb 10 12:41:46 :) Feb 10 12:42:04 Is elop honnest? Feb 10 12:42:09 but as such we have our own trajectory that is well down the path Feb 10 12:42:18 dm8tbr: Oh the registration are full to bad :-( Feb 10 12:42:21 We might get a bigger location in Tampere Feb 10 12:42:35 assuming there isn't another summit in April that you're talking about Feb 10 12:42:40 coz he comes from µsoft, guess he wanna share with the old friends ... Feb 10 12:42:51 Yeah I missed that registration was opened Feb 10 12:43:07 jnwi: where would the money for the additional lunches, coffee, etc come from? Feb 10 12:43:14 It was full within hours of our press release... Feb 10 12:43:22 which is both good and bad Feb 10 12:43:28 KevinB: just wait. theres a capital markets call Feb 10 12:43:30 and mwc Feb 10 12:43:37 all will pop out soon enouhg i imagine Feb 10 12:43:45 dm8tbr: I don't know, they're working on it Feb 10 12:43:46 raster: Just a few hours ago, had a conversation about the UI/UX/appsuite being completely separate from the core OS Feb 10 12:44:00 dm8tbr: I'm just the marketing team lead Feb 10 12:44:05 RST38h: u mean qt universe vs everything else? Feb 10 12:44:14 raster: I.e. stuff that is below the command shell and stuff that is above command shell should be freely interchangeable Feb 10 12:44:15 Please arrange for more people if possible Feb 10 12:44:18 ie as an "app writeR" u "write to qt as the api" Feb 10 12:44:25 and u dont know or care about the os underneath? Feb 10 12:44:34 raster: In a more general way Feb 10 12:44:57 so what about it? Feb 10 12:44:59 u likeit Feb 10 12:45:00 raster: "Write in POSIX, Qt, Gtk, other high level APIs and do not care about the stuff underneath: Feb 10 12:45:01 dont like it? Feb 10 12:45:11 well gtk isnt part of meego Feb 10 12:45:14 not really Feb 10 12:45:23 raster: But it should not matter really Feb 10 12:45:24 its killed as best i can see Feb 10 12:45:29 its just qt Feb 10 12:45:36 anbd all its wrapping of anything Feb 10 12:45:42 (qt mobility etc.) Feb 10 12:45:54 raster: It is not part of the Meego UX, indeed. But if someone is bent on implementing his own UX in Gtk, he can bring it and run it on top of meego Feb 10 12:46:01 http://summit.meegonetwork.fi/queue-cancellation-seats Feb 10 12:46:04 raster: Same with E stuff Feb 10 12:46:15 sure Feb 10 12:46:31 jnwi: I will surely signup on that queue thnx Feb 10 12:46:35 but it will not be blessed or supported Feb 10 12:46:36 np Feb 10 12:46:56 ubuntu seem to be getting quite Qt friendly too. Feb 10 12:47:08 raster: If you are an OEM, you do not need your OEM stuff to be blessed or supported. You support it yourself. Feb 10 12:49:45 My summit slot is herby connected to the summit signal yourWelcome Feb 10 12:50:27 what? Feb 10 12:51:23 queue-cancellation-seats Feb 10 12:51:40 RST38h: but as an oem then what is the point of using another toolkit Feb 10 12:51:53 when ytou ALSO have to support and work with people who use a toolkit u dont use or support? Feb 10 12:52:24 Did it really say something like that? Feb 10 12:53:05 raster: You may have had UX written with a different toolkit already Feb 10 12:53:20 raster: You may not have liked Qt for one reason or the other Feb 10 12:53:39 'cause it's C++, that's the only reason Feb 10 12:53:43 * slaine ducks Feb 10 12:53:59 That too, there are certain reasons against C++ Feb 10 12:54:16 !C is my main one ;) Feb 10 12:54:24 lol Feb 10 13:09:11 mmeeks: I agree with most of your blog post there, but I just don't see wp7 making sense. Doesn't mean it wouldn't happen though. As discussed here earlier/yesterday/this week, a partnering with HP on WebOS as an alternate to MeeGo would seem more likely due to similar knowledge already in the engineering team. Feb 10 13:11:17 slaine: good point :-) Feb 10 13:11:51 webOS also makes a lot of sense to me, but maybe it's too late? Feb 10 13:12:31 Well, if they can get Qt 4.7.x on there and all the mobility frameworks, then it's a runner Feb 10 13:12:44 But it's yet another reset Feb 10 13:13:10 but qt on windows phone seems like a no-go Feb 10 13:13:25 exactly, wp7 is all .net stuff Feb 10 13:13:53 Qt/Quick out the window, all the effory into Qt/Quick and the sundry frameworks would be wasted Feb 10 13:14:24 I even thought that nokia could reach an agreement with google for allowing Qt on Dalvik, and Dalvik on MeeGo Feb 10 13:14:48 the qt-android port seems quite nice for a hobby project Feb 10 13:15:18 I think they need to stop second guessing every path the follow and fully commit to something Feb 10 13:16:07 yes, and I finally see them doing that with Qt, it's only that it took so long :-( Feb 10 13:16:27 i can't belive that they still have so many problems with qt on symbian Feb 10 13:16:37 That means either ditching the idea of controlling the OS/Software stack and focusing more on Hardware (in essence becoming more like HTC) Feb 10 13:18:01 yes, but Nokia wishing to become HTC is nuts, even if they are declining, isn't it? Feb 10 13:18:12 Nokia is still big, IMHO Feb 10 13:18:16 That's what a CEO is for :) Feb 10 13:18:23 heh :) Feb 10 13:18:50 Well, its a course of action that would be considered in order to return to higher profitability Feb 10 13:19:37 focus on hardware, reduce software, shed jobs Feb 10 13:19:47 I'd hate to see that happen Feb 10 13:20:51 me too Feb 10 13:21:24 slaine, or it could go the otherway. the way I see it nokia are loosing marketshare because competitors software is much better. Why not remove some hardware platforms stop making 200 phones a year and make fewer better ones Feb 10 13:21:31 Hopefully it's a case of stopping betting on a two horse race, ditching Symbian, essentially put it into maintenance mode, and focusing on MeeGo Feb 10 13:21:56 specially because since meego is real linux, it makes sense not only for phones; I hoped to see MeeGo laptops and PCs... now HP has hinted they will do full blown computers Feb 10 13:21:57 arfoll: yeah, that's my second point too and the one I'd prefer to see Feb 10 13:22:11 It depends on the volume of feature phones vs smart phones Feb 10 13:22:27 where smart phones are more expensive devices, but feature phones sell in higher volumes Feb 10 13:22:55 disperso: Intel hinted the same thing about MeeGo a year ago, haven't seen anything happen yet Feb 10 13:24:00 crazy idea, nokia joins the crew and launches a 'smart tv' Feb 10 13:24:54 not a bad idea, I always thought that a TV is a great candidate for a smart device: e.g. videoconference, media hub, etc Feb 10 13:25:22 but I want a dumb TV screen, with a smart replaceable "brain" Feb 10 13:30:55 arfoll, the crew ? Feb 10 13:31:10 disperso: Go meego + mythtv tweak it for your needs and you have a decent home entertainment system Feb 10 13:31:24 slaine, i mean the whole wave of people doing smart tv - google, apple, boxee blahblah Feb 10 13:31:31 ah right Feb 10 13:31:41 it wasnt a very good choice of wording Feb 10 13:31:58 arfoll: it was very street of you Feb 10 13:32:05 ;P Feb 10 13:32:12 one of the lads here got one of those boxee remotes, nice Feb 10 13:34:15 slaine, what can i say - barcelona ghetto life is getting to me Feb 10 13:34:27 obit_sweden: I want to do that, but my problem would be the hardware; anyway, the ideal situation would be buying the device actually built soft+hard Feb 10 13:34:37 is the boxee remote IR or BT? there was a discussion about it on #xbmc-linux Feb 10 13:36:06 arfoll: which barcelona's neighbourhood is ghetto to you? :) Feb 10 13:37:59 disperso, barceloneta definately Feb 10 13:38:56 raster: you troll here too? Feb 10 13:39:24 arfoll, BT Feb 10 13:39:47 Sorry, RF Feb 10 13:39:48 that's what I thought. I want to get one :-) Feb 10 13:39:53 ah damn Feb 10 13:39:57 you had to ruin it Feb 10 13:40:01 has RF written all over it Feb 10 13:40:18 re Feb 10 13:40:28 can I do qml with the 1.0.2 qt sdk? Feb 10 13:40:44 or is the editor andviewer only available in 1.1 tech preview? Feb 10 13:41:03 slaine, i'll have to try one i guess Feb 10 13:41:25 http://i.imgur.com/4kepL.jpg (worksafe) Feb 10 13:41:42 Wellark, lol Feb 10 13:41:52 sivang: afaik, you have Qt 4.7, but no creator 2.0, so you can do QML, but no visual editor Feb 10 13:42:26 disperso: okay, thanks I don't really ned th visual editor, as it s not visual, I mean, you can't realy draw ? Feb 10 13:42:41 disperso: draw UI elemetns, just see your changes while editing? Feb 10 13:44:18 sivang: the visual editor in Creator is just to lay the UI visually, instead of hand-writing the anchors Feb 10 13:44:34 i haven't used it much Feb 10 13:45:28 disperso: oh nice Feb 10 13:45:50 disperso: although ancoring usualy turns whatyou wanted so far forme Feb 10 13:48:16 * RST38h yawns Feb 10 13:53:24 hey guys. why developer.meego.com is down? Feb 10 13:53:59 obit_sweden: what advantage does meego+mythtv have over, say, ubuntu+mythtv? Feb 10 13:54:23 tzorvas___: being switched over to android for tomorrow Feb 10 13:54:47 oi, no trolling Feb 10 13:54:53 tzorvas___: it's a site under development i believe Feb 10 13:55:10 Stskeeps: not even a tiny wee bit? Feb 10 13:55:15 :) Feb 10 13:59:19 Stskeeps: yeah i know but i feel unlucky today. also my domain registrar site is down :P Feb 10 14:07:11 ali1234: It doesn't have any but it's fun to use meego Feb 10 14:08:27 Doc: It is written by a bunch of ego driven mad penguins randomly typing C code =) Feb 10 14:10:34 disperso: what problem do you have regarding hardware ? Feb 10 14:21:41 hey Feb 10 14:21:47 any meego developer here? Feb 10 14:23:38 no, we just pretend Feb 10 14:23:46 haha Feb 10 14:24:17 I just came here to ask how is it going? Feb 10 14:24:44 nokia has any plans to deploy it soon? Feb 10 14:25:41 dhunter: MeeGo developers don't necessarily know anything about any individual vendor's plans. Feb 10 14:25:43 ask nokia, please :) Feb 10 14:25:48 dhunter: And if they did, they wouldn't say. Feb 10 14:25:55 dhunter: www.meego.com is what we are here Feb 10 14:26:25 Stskeeps: oh, I get it Feb 10 14:33:34 Stskeeps: is it finished yet ? Feb 10 14:33:47 huh? Feb 10 14:33:47 :P Feb 10 14:33:53 ;) Feb 10 14:39:01 Engadget gloating: http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/10/amazon-app-released-for-the-newest-windows-phone-7-models/ Feb 10 14:54:53 obit_sweden: I meant finding a box with low noise, low power consumption and good drivers, hopefully one that has all integrated; I know there are several choices, but if I would want to buy such a thing, i would require some research first Feb 10 14:55:16 I know here, is meego.com : I just wonder how much Nokia in Feb 10 14:55:28 how much nokia s investment is in the project? Feb 10 14:55:57 * lbt wonders if it's worth doing an auto-kick on the word nokia for the rest of today? Feb 10 14:56:10 yea could be usefull :p Feb 10 14:56:22 nokla? Feb 10 14:56:23 KevinB: how do you measure that? :) they contribute a lot to Qt, which is quite important, the remaining is hard to measure Feb 10 14:56:27 * dm8tbr votes in favour Feb 10 14:56:29 Stskeeps: turns out WebOS uses Qt for embedded linux extensively Feb 10 14:56:36 javispedro: hmm? Feb 10 14:56:55 remember when I found out the shipped Qt 4.6 with the image? Feb 10 14:57:04 I've dumped the symbols they use -- a lot. Feb 10 14:57:15 QWS* stuff, for example. Feb 10 14:57:36 interesting Feb 10 14:57:37 graphics view also. Feb 10 14:58:00 javispedro: what do you mean with embedded linux? what about the primary UI, or their first party applications? Feb 10 14:58:06 disperso : cool, so it s not as much as I thought Feb 10 14:58:33 disperso: first party appliations are "web"(js)os ;), primary UI is the one being rendered on a graphics view Feb 10 14:58:52 running apps list, etc. Feb 10 14:59:26 javispedro: cool Feb 10 15:01:10 javispedro: BTW, kudos for finding that; i've read about it in a blog, but it didn't add any sources for the info Feb 10 15:02:02 actually I wouldn't be surprised if they had a #ifdef where they turn the main UI into a pure Qt app. Feb 10 15:02:39 as the number of calls that are not abstracted by Qt is very small. Feb 10 15:02:40 aha, the plot thickens Feb 10 15:03:04 I can make up a conspiracy theory about webOs/meego merger :) Feb 10 15:03:12 for ex. they previously had a daemon for handling input. the daemon is still there, but just pushes events into the Qt queue. Feb 10 15:04:18 tbh I've been thinking that too. More like: "Someone thought for a moment they could run the webos UI on top of Meego/Qt". Feb 10 15:07:23 but it can also be that they just wanted to test in a hosted/under Windows environment. Feb 10 15:10:03 javispedro: Dev purposes (incl. emulators for SDKs) sounds more likely Feb 10 15:10:04 given that Elop's talk title on MWC is "connecting the dots", a conspiracy theory makes sense ;) Feb 10 15:10:23 oh, and now I'm remembering that HP also uses Qt in HPLIP Feb 10 15:10:55 hey, 'connecting the dots' was our conference motto a few years ago ;) Feb 10 15:12:31 Jaffa: yeah, agreed. thought that they moved their animations code, etc. to Qt probably talks something about how easy is to do that in Qt ;) Feb 10 15:12:42 *though Feb 10 15:14:10 The TouchPad looked quite shiny from the video I saw Feb 10 15:15:33 Thought it looked lovely Feb 10 15:15:59 I'd hoped webOs on a tablet would work well, it looked like the UI paradigm would translate well and it seems to have Feb 10 15:17:52 Hi all ! Feb 10 15:18:07 hi khertan, how are things? Feb 10 15:25:08 Stskeeps: fine ... Feb 10 15:25:23 Stskeeps: i ll have a test in few hours for a new jobs :) Feb 10 15:25:44 the trolley is back Feb 10 15:25:47 (wrong window, sorry) Feb 10 15:45:54 Is there a way to get more verbose output on "mad-admin create" ? Feb 10 15:56:52 sure Feb 10 15:59:40 vgrade: aren't you seeing too much behind bug 11113 - fwiw is the first time I hear about this brand refresh but I expect it to be made to solve all these little proprietary and trademark annoyances Feb 10 15:59:43 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11113 nor, Undecided, ---, shai.bowman, ASSI, MeeGo logo exclusion zone too restrictive Feb 10 15:59:59 romaxa ping Feb 10 16:01:37 Hi all, whats the status on the n900 working with meego if you don't mind me asking Feb 10 16:05:54 openstandards: Status meeting minutes were posted today Feb 10 16:06:24 openstandards: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2011-February/481488.html Feb 10 16:07:33 hyvin pitkä; vaivalloinen lukea. Referoisitko? Feb 10 16:17:00 cheers Jaffa Feb 10 16:41:49 will nokia release a smartphone running meego? Feb 10 16:42:24 no Feb 10 16:42:54 on which smartphone will meego run? Feb 10 16:43:24 jatt: you'll see it in the news Feb 10 16:43:36 wow nice, so it will be a surprise? Feb 10 16:43:55 please don't ask about what nokia does. we are not nokia in here. we don't know such things. Feb 10 16:44:04 I see ok Feb 10 17:13:02 has anybody figured out how to get firewire or external media i/o onto the MeeGo Lenovo S10-3t via the Mini PCI-E adapter? (e.g. http://www.adexelec.com/pciexp.htm#PE-MINI-FLEX ) Feb 10 17:13:49 npm, the bios has a lock so unfortunately it mostly refuses to boot when a PCI-E x1 card is inserted and it does not have it in it's list Feb 10 17:14:02 doh! Feb 10 17:14:31 (i don't have it yet, so i haven't found that out ... just making some plans :-) ) Feb 10 17:14:36 there are some hacks to bypass it if you look in google, haven't managed to try any because you need windows on the damned thing to flash the bios Feb 10 17:14:46 nice cards though didnt know they made adapters like that Feb 10 17:16:15 what i'd like to do is have it control some pci-e cards of the full size variety ( want http://code.google.com/p/mudita24/ running in touchscreen mode ) Feb 10 17:19:38 anyone would like to test the behavior of wired network card on suspend? Feb 10 17:20:40 Once resume from suspend, the wired card doesn't work, only after calling tcpdump on the interface it starts to receive data from the network and things get normal. Feb 10 17:21:26 I've submited a bug on the kernel.org bugzilla, but it might not be a driver issue as they told me. Maybe this is a problem with connmand Feb 10 17:22:24 qgil: webos makes a better alternate than android or wp7 for sure Feb 10 17:22:30 if it was to happen Feb 10 17:22:33 Hello everybody! Are Linux CLI applications easily portable under Meego ? Feb 10 17:23:08 mostly, as you might expect Feb 10 17:23:10 vadmeste_: yes Feb 10 17:23:11 any more details? Feb 10 17:23:44 Meego has the usual gnu C library, right ? :) Feb 10 17:23:50 vadmeste_: yes Feb 10 17:24:32 you can even do a compile on a handset if you need a handwarmer Feb 10 17:24:48 ^_^ Feb 10 17:26:21 I was shocked when I've seen this link http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=meego Feb 10 17:27:20 what is so shocking? Feb 10 17:29:24 that there are blanks for things like 'emacs' or Feb 10 17:29:30 or abiword? Feb 10 17:29:53 No, I mean positivly shocked Feb 10 17:30:18 because Meego can be considered a linux distro Feb 10 17:30:55 not as Android or Iphone, etc... Feb 10 17:31:54 welcome to MeeGo :-) Feb 10 17:33:25 android is a distro as well Feb 10 17:33:39 its google "distributing" linux Feb 10 17:34:26 yes, but it is not easy to port a linux application to android because android has different c library Feb 10 17:34:51 it doesn't have gtk or qt Feb 10 17:34:51 about the same as to meego Feb 10 17:34:54 true, its not GNU/linux :) Feb 10 17:34:54 doesn't Qt run on android? Feb 10 17:35:03 npm: linux runs linux Feb 10 17:35:20 recursion limit reached Feb 10 17:35:57 npm: http://code.google.com/p/android-lighthouse/ Feb 10 17:35:58 wouldnt be possible to cross compile from linux to android Feb 10 17:36:09 why? Feb 10 17:36:10 but qt support is not official Feb 10 17:36:26 KevinB: I cross compile from linux to android every day Feb 10 17:37:20 http://www.trustedreviews.com/software/news/2011/02/08/Android-Apps-On-Any-Phone-WIth-Myriad-s-Alien-Dalvik/p1 Feb 10 17:37:41 or vice versa Feb 10 17:38:16 http://wiki.debian.org/Java/DevJam/2011/Fosdem/JavaSpeakers#IcedRobot Feb 10 17:39:48 av500: have you tried to build qt project with lighthouse? Feb 10 17:39:56 nope Feb 10 17:50:50 Hi Feb 10 17:51:00 Mike Shaver about? Feb 10 17:53:03 arfoll: looks like some have managed to add mini pcie cards :-) : http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/IdeaPad-S-series-Netbooks/Broadcom-Crystal-HD-BCM970012-any-success-with-S10-3t/td-p/215342/page/3 Feb 10 17:53:45 npm, like i said you need to modify the bios but sure - it's a list you just have to put your card in it Feb 10 17:54:58 adds yet another project to the stack :-) Feb 10 17:57:21 hmm... maybe i'll leave the original disk alone incase i have to run windows ... any failure mode if I use an SSD in the S10-3t? Feb 10 17:57:46 (run windows to modify the bios) Feb 10 17:57:58 npm, i've got an X25-M Gen2 in there since I got it at the meego conf Feb 10 17:58:55 if you have a spare disk i'd recommend saving the original or at least making an image (i should have done that...) Feb 10 17:58:56 that's good to know... looking forward to trying out your xbmc stuff Feb 10 17:59:49 npm, works well on the s10-3t actually, all it needs is vaapi or a crystalhd chip for h/w decode Feb 10 18:00:03 and it'll be the perfect watch a film in bed machine Feb 10 18:00:09 heh Feb 10 19:03:16 channel ttl <24hrs? Feb 10 19:04:39 chx, how come? Feb 10 19:05:04 Tomorrow Nokia announces they ditch everything and go Windows 7 isnt that what everyone is sayin'? Feb 10 19:05:45 nope Feb 10 19:06:38 chx, meego != nokia Feb 10 19:06:44 chx: seems like a must see thing Feb 10 19:06:44 hena: not any of the smart ones anyway Feb 10 19:06:46 chx: we're close to putting an akick on everyone that says the N word Feb 10 19:07:22 noir? Feb 10 19:07:27 nandroid Feb 10 19:07:31 nickelback? Feb 10 19:07:34 noogy Feb 10 19:07:59 nincompoop Feb 10 19:08:35 niala1? Feb 10 19:08:38 y'all can send your cv to careers@nokLa.mobi - If you have $random_mobile_os experience ;) Feb 10 19:09:07 dm8tbr: I've not been banned from here, does that count? Feb 10 19:10:00 dm8tbr: what exactly is "random experience"? Feb 10 19:10:58 experience collected from the entropypool Feb 10 19:11:04 http://www.dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/100000/10000/2000/300/112314/112314.strip.gif - How about that? It made me smile. Dogbert consults NokLa ;) Feb 10 19:12:10 now that/s a url Feb 10 19:14:32 *nod* didn't feel like a url shortener though Feb 10 19:14:52 it just seems very stupid Feb 10 19:15:30 indeed, I've been wondering for a while why they have _that_ many zeroes Feb 10 19:16:06 to get the point thru Feb 10 19:20:03 except Nokia is far from irrelevant Feb 10 19:20:25 shame you can't use ipv6 Feb 10 19:20:37 for? Feb 10 19:20:38 str_strip/::/strip.g Feb 10 19:29:16 hi CosmoHill Feb 10 19:29:29 plop Feb 10 19:30:05 slurp Feb 10 20:03:16 Stskeeps: ping Feb 10 20:03:20 pong Feb 10 20:04:00 Stskeeps: do you know which qt-mobility packages are the latest? http://download.meego.com/live/devel:/qt-mtf:/qt-mobility:/ Feb 10 20:04:02 fault!!! 1-0 Stskeeps to serve Feb 10 20:04:12 1.2.0 or tp? Feb 10 20:04:29 rbelem: check changelog dates? Feb 10 20:05:44 oki Feb 10 20:06:14 Stskeeps: 1.2.0 seems to be old :-( Feb 10 20:10:00 interesting close to the http://www.meegosoftware.com/ bug #13109 Feb 10 20:10:03 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13109 nor, Undecided, ---, brian.warner, RESO FIXED, Potentially illicit site : meegosoftware.com Feb 10 20:11:53 better than seizing the domain? Feb 10 20:15:24 I don't know what I think about it - it's good that *meego*.com are not going to be chased down too hard Feb 10 20:16:31 but this site was claiming to be "official" and that, to me, was well over the acceptable line. Still, now they don't make that claim... I'd keep an eye on them. Feb 10 20:17:06 anyhow... need to get some BOSS work done and setup some stuff for community area Feb 10 20:17:27 we still need to sync over the meegobot VM too Feb 10 20:20:33 Anyone can claim officialiy Feb 10 20:20:57 Hell, I can claim to the the Emperor of the Universe. Does not change a thing. Feb 10 20:26:36 RST38h: mmm... you can also claim to be an official from the electric company.... and then go round to old peoples houses stealing money .... Feb 10 20:26:49 I saw it closer to the latter than the former :) Feb 10 20:32:00 lbt: Stealingmoney is a crime Feb 10 20:32:09 lbt: Claiming shit on the Net is not, afaik Feb 10 20:33:43 can we hit people with sticks how say anything about the n9 or windows 7 Feb 10 20:34:56 RST38h: didn't say it was Feb 10 20:45:59 how long does it usually take for a bug to be assigned? Feb 10 20:54:57 hirabayashitaro: is there an issue with a bug specifically? bugs should be triaged quickly (a few days max) normally Feb 10 20:58:28 auke: well, honestly is a proposal for improvement, but non a foundamental one. Is something that I think would be nice to have on a future 1.3-1.4 release. But had no feedback for it and I was wondering why Feb 10 21:08:19 I have fucked up my n900! I was going to change the big user filesystem from vfat to ext2 and that went okay. Then I changed a bit in /etc/fstab /usr/sbin/mmc-mount and /usr/sbin/osso-mmc-mount.sh. Regrettably, I didn't check these files for syntax error before I rebooted the device. Now it just reboots over and over again when I try to start it... what can I do? Is it possible to start it somehow in a hackable way? I run maemo but I gu Feb 10 21:09:41 if you run maemo, please ask in #maemo Feb 10 21:10:26 but one solution for you might be to install meego on an SD card and boot using that Feb 10 21:11:07 thiago_home: ok, thanks Feb 10 21:11:55 that reminds, I'm being lazy here, does the excellent System Rescue CD "understand" meego yet (incl things like the default brtfs on netbook)? Feb 10 21:12:24 if anyone knows, that is Feb 10 21:12:33 and the friendly no swearing reminder :) http://wiki.meego.com/IRC_guidelines Feb 10 21:21:52 thiago_home: hi :) Feb 10 21:22:01 thiago_home: i remember you from #qt Feb 10 21:22:07 henux: I remember you from there too Feb 10 21:30:22 hi guys, I need some help. I added "translations = translations Feb 10 21:30:22 DEPLOYMENTFOLDERS = translations" and my *.pro file and when a use qmake && make . I get "cp: cannot copy a directory, `/home/test/Projects/Developer/Qt/Test/trunk/', into itself, `/home/test/Projects/Developer/Qt/Test/trunk/trunk' Feb 10 21:30:22 make: *** [copydeploymentfolders] Error 1" . Any idea ? thanks Feb 10 21:30:42 translations is a folder Feb 10 21:31:04 and inside I have translations files Feb 10 21:31:36 * thiago_home doesn't know how to do translations Feb 10 21:35:03 so, any meego announcement tomorrow? Feb 10 21:35:25 you're asking something nobody in here can answer Feb 10 21:39:30 demoboy: Sorry, dude... there's a crack in my crystal ball. Feb 10 21:39:57 ;-) Feb 10 21:40:22 * thiago_home lost his to The Great River when Osgiliath fell Feb 10 21:41:14 what seriously...? you've been looking for it since then.... why didn't you say? I picked it up when it washed up in the delta.... Feb 10 21:42:03 thiago_home: nice! :-) Feb 10 21:42:30 lbt: is that the one with the hand prints permanently burnt into it? Feb 10 21:42:46 yeah, that's the one... I'll Fedex it. Feb 10 21:43:19 problem is, I think Ballmer has the other one. Feb 10 21:43:23 demoboy: he'll get it sometime tomorrow... ping him then... Feb 10 21:43:53 Minas Ithil, Minas Anor, Osgiliath, Isengard, one that only faced West and two more in the Kingdom of the North Feb 10 21:44:06 Finland? Feb 10 21:44:20 lol Feb 10 21:44:30 could be Feb 10 21:44:44 * thiago_home checks if wikipedia has a page on the palantíri Feb 10 21:45:04 thiago_home: it does. Feb 10 21:46:38 thiago_home: But impressive that you can name all 6. :-) Feb 10 21:47:29 mmm that was 7 Feb 10 21:47:59 and I didn't name them Feb 10 21:48:05 I named only 4 Feb 10 21:48:07 lbt: see, that's why I'm so impressed! Feb 10 21:48:23 s/name/account for/ Feb 10 21:49:48 so is meego a dead platform? Feb 10 21:50:04 henux: I don't see anything dead Feb 10 21:51:38 henux: yep... see bug #52552 ... self-replication broken Feb 10 21:53:25 nasty Feb 10 21:57:20 * VanDamas http://hotour.ucoz.com Visit my site to download my all Hot videos! Feb 10 22:03:56 vgrade, you get a segfault as well on vainfo? Feb 10 22:04:11 lcuk2: ping Feb 10 22:04:27 arfoll, yup Feb 10 22:05:01 are the handset builds in this directory the best/latest builds to try meego on n900? http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.1.90/ Feb 10 22:06:03 i did see some posts on ubuntu re latest emgd and cva Feb 10 22:06:07 va Feb 10 22:06:30 crashing Feb 10 22:06:51 hey vgrade Feb 10 22:07:07 once again, why isn't this channel hidden? Feb 10 22:07:31 I want people who are interested in meego to come here via the website or other means Feb 10 22:07:39 not trolls and bots who use /list Feb 10 22:07:50 CosmoHill: :D Feb 10 22:08:24 I have followed the rescue guide for nokia n900 at http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Using_Rescue_Initrd . The guide says that I should see a rescue menu but the screen is just black. The rescue commands seem to work however. What I want to do is to open a rescue terminal so I really need to see something. Does anyone know what the problem could be? Feb 10 22:08:58 Evening CosmoHil Feb 10 22:09:00 l Feb 10 22:09:15 hello meegoans! Feb 10 22:09:24 tbh the second L is just for redundancy / backup Feb 10 22:10:03 CosmoHill: I see a future in law enforcement... Feb 10 22:11:30 as long as it doesn't involve recovering evil videos from computers Feb 10 22:12:08 stomping... I see lots of stomping Feb 10 22:12:15 and bad poetry Feb 10 22:18:53 vgrade, xbmc and opengl2 fails as on previous EMGD, so i'm trying to build XBMC for the atv2 that should work better (video + opengles2 should work), but they've changed the build system and it's broken Feb 10 22:20:39 vgrade, i also wanted to ask you, how come when the joggler boots it isn't autoenabling ethernet? I need to run the netbook UX, enable the ethernet and then it connects. can I make it connect in runlevel3? Feb 10 22:21:46 I just realized that my rescue start of meego on the n900 was actually quite successful, it's only the backlight that's missing. How do I turn it on? Feb 10 22:24:17 arfoll, as you know the joggler does not have a mac address for eth0 so has to be setup. I thought I had put something in rc.local but may have forgot to do that with the latest image Feb 10 22:25:21 it shoud do ifconfig eth0 hw ether 00:11:22:33:44:55 Feb 10 22:25:22 dhclient eth0 Feb 10 22:25:22 ifconfig eth0 Feb 10 22:25:57 vgrade, no it looks like its there Feb 10 22:26:17 * arfoll just made a 176mb patch file... Feb 10 22:28:03 arfoll, will investigate Feb 10 22:29:19 vgrade, thx, i was trying to get openbox instead of netbook UX and can't because of it :-( Feb 10 22:29:44 anwyays i have to go early tonight Feb 10 22:29:47 so cyao Feb 10 22:30:05 see you all here for the 10am GMT ;-) i'll be wearing my meego shirt Feb 10 22:32:37 arfoll, http://forum.meego.com/archive/index.php/t-229.html Feb 10 22:33:08 arfoll, no t-shirt here but N900 running meego in pocket Feb 10 22:37:58 i'm not awake at 10am GMT Feb 10 22:55:37 http://conversations.nokia.com will be the hub for tomorrow’s Nokia strategy announcement starting around 7:30am GMT Feb 10 22:56:02 by Nokia on twitter Feb 10 22:58:50 i'm not awake at 7:30 am GMT either Feb 10 23:10:42 berndhs: I was awake at 6am, damn central heating turned on 2 hours early Feb 10 23:13:54 CosmoHill: better than not wake up because the heat doesn't turn on :) Feb 10 23:14:16 I still wake up, I just can't get out of bed Feb 10 23:15:41 put interesting things far away from the bed Feb 10 23:16:25 I get up at 6am frequently, just not 6am GMT :) Feb 10 23:16:46 I have a habbit of waking up 30 mins before my lecture Feb 10 23:17:08 that;s good enough if you're the professor Feb 10 23:17:31 I never said I was late Feb 10 23:18:01 as long as you dont drive before you wake up, its ok Feb 10 23:18:18 takes me twice as long to drive in than it does to take my bike Feb 10 23:19:03 usually took me 15 mins to drive to school, another 10 to find a parking spot Feb 10 23:19:11 then 15 min walk to lecture Feb 10 23:20:42 20 to drive, 10 to walk Feb 10 23:20:48 or 15 to bike Feb 10 23:21:22 bike path was uphill both ways, so I didnt do that :) Feb 10 23:22:16 I like biking :) Feb 10 23:22:35 me too, jsut not long steep hills going up Feb 10 23:22:48 that reminds me, I need to tune my gears Feb 10 23:23:17 Tri-Flow is good, dont know if they sell it in the UK Feb 10 23:23:31 ? Feb 10 23:24:00 its teflon spray stuff, good for lubricating gears and bike chains Feb 10 23:24:17 ah I see, it's just out of alignment Feb 10 23:24:34 won't help with that of course :) Feb 10 23:25:34 but if you get sand in the chain, it keeps it from eating the sprockets Feb 10 23:25:49 where the hell do you go to university? Feb 10 23:25:57 San Diego Feb 10 23:26:02 some years ago Feb 10 23:26:03 oh okay Feb 10 23:26:17 I actually graduated and had to leave Feb 10 23:27:52 what did you graduate in? Feb 10 23:27:58 computer science Feb 10 23:28:14 parallel computing Feb 10 23:28:41 I'm so grabbing you for my dissertation Feb 10 23:29:05 as an example of how not to do it ? Feb 10 23:29:06 :) Feb 10 23:29:50 yeah...no...I've had 1 failed motherboard, 4 / 5 failed PSUs and a faulty switch Feb 10 23:30:37 my replacement switch was used for parts within 3 days Feb 10 23:30:41 that's a hardware problem Feb 10 23:32:29 yeah but it still sucks when it blows up when you plug it in Feb 10 23:34:42 true Feb 10 23:34:56 that's why you want similators, they dont smoke Feb 10 23:35:06 s/simi/simu/ Feb 10 23:35:13 berndhs meant: that's why you want simulators, they dont smoke Feb 10 23:35:53 I had to look at your sed statment to see the difference between the two sentances Feb 10 23:36:34 yes human perception is very interesting Feb 10 23:36:49 we often see what we expect to see Feb 10 23:36:59 whether its there or not :) Feb 10 23:45:40 CosmoHill: If you let the smoke out of a cluster, is that still considered cloud computing? Feb 10 23:46:22 i don't think it counts if it's kinda poisonous Feb 10 23:46:40 that and I dread to think what the fine is for setting off the smoke alarmm Feb 10 23:50:18 You get fines for that? From the uni or the city? Feb 10 23:51:22 Good evening Feb 10 23:51:31 don't know Feb 10 23:51:35 don't intent to find out Feb 10 23:51:43 Anyone feeling the interest for tomorrow's big Nokia press conference? Feb 10 23:52:10 yeah Mubarak is scared of Nokia's announcement :P Feb 10 23:52:57 LOL Feb 10 23:53:09 I'm indifferent Feb 10 23:53:19 I have been thinking over and over again and again about this Feb 10 23:53:22 just wait, Elop is going to make Hosni quit Feb 10 23:53:49 I do not get any kind of result. He is a cryptic man to say the least. Feb 10 23:54:02 Is the "burning platform" memo even real? Feb 10 23:54:13 Hosni ? he believes his own propaganda, that's pretty much it Feb 10 23:54:52 berndhs: No, Elop. Feb 10 23:55:14 don't know if he believes his propaganda, haven't watching him Feb 10 23:56:02 I have a customer thinking about basing their project on Qt, now they are worrying about its longevity due to all the press on this Feb 10 23:56:32 berndhs: That is what I was thinking about as well. I do not get any grip on the man somehow. Feb 10 23:56:52 I think Mubarak is more interresting tomorrow Feb 10 23:57:01 Yes, Mubarak will be tha man tomorrow. Feb 10 23:57:32 He will at least give some type of answers. Feb 10 23:59:02 You guys think that the burning platform memo by Elop is actually his own writing? Feb 10 23:59:26 dunno Feb 11 00:00:05 berndhs: Me neither. It is a powerful statement to say the least. Feb 11 00:00:31 its blustery fluff :) Feb 11 00:00:41 or fluffy bluster Feb 11 00:00:45 or soemthing Feb 11 00:00:57 The memo is written like a horoscope... there's lots of ways to read into it. Feb 11 00:01:32 we'll know the forunes tomorrow, though. Feb 11 00:02:45 gabrbedd: Yes, that is the good part. We will know tomorrow what happens. Feb 11 00:03:06 And when it happens... I'll be asleep, like berndhs. Feb 11 00:03:08 gabrbedd: I just sure as hell hope he is not cooking it up with Mr. Ballmer and having a M$ party coming up Feb 11 00:03:12 ...just not /with/ berndhs. Feb 11 00:03:21 gabrbedd: You got me scared there LOL Feb 11 00:03:35 you got berndhs' hopes up there Feb 11 00:03:38 gabrbedd: thank you, and praise the Lord :) Feb 11 00:03:49 LOL :) Feb 11 00:03:58 Thanks guys, the humor kind of relieves my stress LOL Feb 11 00:04:19 I have to be of some use in the channel Feb 11 00:06:19 CosmoHill: Yes, that is a nice thing :) Feb 11 00:25:26 Being a maemo user, I don't like the comments made by the new nokia ceo... Feb 11 00:26:17 openstandards: Do tell me which comments you are meaning. He has made several comments that I do not like myself one bit. Feb 11 00:28:10 our platform is burning... doesn't sound good but perhaps you can enlighenmet on others hes made Feb 11 00:29:02 it's an apt statement, and has nothing directly to do with software Feb 11 00:30:20 openstandards: I consider more his wandering about thinking about choices to be disturbing. Feb 11 00:30:45 openstandards: I feel there is too much dead weight over at Nokia at the highest positions. Feb 11 00:31:24 lol Feb 11 00:31:49 that wasn't questionable at all Feb 11 00:32:47 DrGrov: personally I love my n900 and the two that I did suggest the phone to love it too, it lacked features but the community stepped up and added features with extra apps and now i fear this ceo is a bit of a jack ass Feb 11 00:35:34 openstandards: I have not yet judged him completely. But I am getting scared that he is driving the gigantic boat straight to hell.... Feb 11 00:35:39 some of those at top level can't understand what gold mine meego could be as a platform, it has cost them alot but i've spoken to a symbian dev thats worked with qt and hes enjoyed it. I hope we see another top end phone like the n900 because its increible Feb 11 00:36:34 openstandards: YES! Feb 11 00:36:50 openstandards: Meego is a pure gold mine. You hit the nail on the head right there" Feb 11 00:37:16 you keep out of my mine Feb 11 00:37:47 and watch out for the goblins, they have fast hands Feb 11 00:39:08 CosmoHill: Damn you! Feb 11 00:39:15 CosmoHill: That mine is mine, only mine! Feb 11 00:39:25 nokia don't just need to make phones... alot of money is in set top boxes and its a market they know too what with their nokia satelite recievers Feb 11 00:39:40 CosmoHill: I will bring the PipBoy to navigate myself through your mines and lockpick the master vault :) Feb 11 00:40:24 openstandards: Yes, they could make more end-user products, not just phones. That would also be a future. Feb 11 00:43:23 DrGrov: I actually got myself into debt getting my phone when I did however it was a phone i'm proud to say I own however I don't like all the hurdles you need to do to get calendar syncing right Feb 11 00:44:20 openstandards: I had mine for about 10 months or so. Sold it to my cousin here a few weeks ago since I got myself the Nokia N8. Feb 11 00:45:21 crazy lad, i couldn't bring myself to part from mine Feb 11 00:45:47 He is taking good care of it so that is why I wanted him to have it. Feb 11 00:46:06 I have had about 8 or 9 phones in the past 3 years Feb 11 00:46:49 blimey I don't buy phones much I've had about 8 in 10 yrs or so, this is by far my fav Feb 11 00:47:10 I still have not found my favorite I think. Feb 11 00:47:22 The N8 is close but I still dream about Nokia and Meego. Feb 11 00:47:27 3 of my last 4 phones have been second hand / hand me down Feb 11 00:47:39 i liked the e65 it had some nice features Feb 11 00:48:31 I was watching my signal disapear today, kinda weird since I wasn't moving Feb 11 00:49:43 DrGrov: have you seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8WOZ_avFmA Feb 11 00:51:28 openstandards: No, I will watch it now. Feb 11 00:53:14 openstandards: Pretty cool :) Feb 11 00:55:43 it looks fantastic, meego could tap into one of the biggest and brightest dev communities if they stick to their plan and fancy hiring an ex microsoft ceo Feb 11 00:59:08 DrGrov: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXWEyKjwk2g this is also impressive Feb 11 01:29:09 openstandards: The second video I have seen before Feb 11 01:36:44 Damn I hate to wait for firmware upgrades Feb 11 02:09:35 Evening all Feb 11 02:10:12 oh look, another troll with a clever user name. Feb 11 02:10:17 * TSCHAKeee yawns Feb 11 02:12:08 So....sounds like Windows for top end products boys and girls...any comments? Feb 11 02:12:20 no one knows anything yet Feb 11 02:13:17 wmarone: well, not oficially anyways Feb 11 02:13:27 I falied load the source by "rsync -a rsync://mirrors.kernel.org/meego/releases/1.1/core/repos/source/ " with error "rsync: read error: Connection reset by peer (104)", anybody know why? Feb 11 02:14:16 Where is that leave meego? Feb 11 02:14:18 adios_ameegos: even the unofficial stuff is suspect Feb 11 02:18:20 TSCHAKeee: do yoh always insult anybody that comes into this channel? Feb 11 02:18:30 *you Feb 11 02:19:14 no, just you....MeegoBoy....adios_ameegos...or whatever you wish to call yourself today. Feb 11 02:22:26 * TSCHAKeee yawns Feb 11 02:23:29 think he's finally getting bored? Feb 11 02:23:40 maybe. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Feb 11 02:59:57 2011