**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Feb 13 02:59:56 2011 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Feb 13 15:40:14 2011 Feb 13 15:40:14 things happen for a reason and this is how companies behave Feb 13 15:40:24 thiago_home, I have posted a way to achieve: http://liqbase.net/liq.20110208_002.liqbook.on.meego.ideapad.jpg Feb 13 15:40:31 no matter how much you feel it's unfair to you (and you have my sympathies here, I feel it too) Feb 13 15:40:33 hi Feb 13 15:43:37 Does anyone have an idea why with the handset UI in 1.1 fennec can connect only as root? Feb 13 15:44:28 I know it's not the best moment to talk about MeeGo developpement but... does Meego handset ships with opencv or another image processing framework ? Feb 13 15:44:49 vlj: you should be able to get the package listing from repo.meego.com Feb 13 15:44:59 ok Feb 13 15:45:07 and it is always the best moment to talk about development Feb 13 15:45:09 :-) Feb 13 15:46:16 Meego 1.1 does not feature camera shooting yet ? Feb 13 15:47:52 what do you call "camera shooting" and on what hardware Feb 13 15:48:06 I mean, the ability to take photo with the camera Feb 13 15:48:30 it's planned for 1.2 ? Feb 13 15:48:31 hmm, doesn't meego 1.1 include qtmobility apis for that Feb 13 15:48:50 well I don't speak of the API, but of the UI Feb 13 15:48:57 vlj: 1.2 n900 adaptation will have cam Feb 13 15:49:02 ok thx Feb 13 15:50:43 and the cam will rely on which software tools to process image ? Feb 13 15:51:13 qt-mobility (if I'm right) does only allow to take picture, but it has no algorithm for noise reduction, ... ? Feb 13 15:52:19 vlj, there are a number of MeeGo image processing tools at your disposal Feb 13 15:52:20 http://maemo.gitorious.org/meego-image-editor Feb 13 15:52:25 thx Feb 13 15:52:37 thank ab and RST38h and a load of other guys Feb 13 15:53:44 libquill was developped for maemo or is it a general purpose library that was just ported ? Feb 13 15:55:06 jbos_bk: hey.... have you registered on meego.com Feb 13 15:55:46 yep Feb 13 15:55:51 and are you looking to develop opensource apps Feb 13 15:55:57 lcuk: does libquillimagefilter use an underlying linear algebra lib ? Feb 13 15:56:00 I do already, Feb 13 15:56:13 check peregrine-communicator.org :) Feb 13 15:56:29 meego accont name jbos_bk? Feb 13 15:56:29 vlj, IDK, ask the developers or read docs about it - just passing on good info :) Feb 13 15:56:48 ok Feb 13 15:56:56 we are a small team, already having one guy with access to the obs, but he is pretty busy :D Feb 13 15:57:07 so better to have some backup Feb 13 15:57:36 so I just need your account name Feb 13 15:57:49 see query :) Feb 13 15:58:03 not email ... :) Feb 13 16:00:10 have fun Feb 13 16:06:50 vlj, qt mobility camera API supposedly produces jpeg image for you Feb 13 16:07:03 vlj, not all HW could give RAW data Feb 13 16:07:09 :/ Feb 13 16:07:54 I think it is not possible to build a proper hdr algorithm if I cannot get raw images Feb 13 16:07:59 vlj, we have enhancement requests for the API so that it could return YUV if possible (as QVideoFrame) Feb 13 16:08:20 vlj, quality will suffer, yes. Alternatively, you can try to use FCam directly Feb 13 16:08:28 this will give you YUV Feb 13 16:08:31 ok Feb 13 16:08:51 and it is not possible to retrieve a 100% quality jpeg ? Feb 13 16:08:53 Mobility guys also were thinking on making FCam backend to Qt Mobility Feb 13 16:09:11 also a "loseless" jpeg Feb 13 16:09:13 (if it is possible) Feb 13 16:09:19 jpeg is not loseless Feb 13 16:09:23 no loseless Feb 13 16:09:24 never ? Feb 13 16:09:37 so what is this "100%" quality supposed to be in jpeg standard ? Feb 13 16:09:44 that's the whole point of jfif. Feb 13 16:10:11 Wikipedia: "In computing, JPEG (pronounced /ˈdʒeɪpɛɡ/ JAY-peg) is a commonly used method of lossy compression for digital photography (image)." Feb 13 16:10:21 damn Feb 13 16:10:32 sadly it is so popular ... Feb 13 16:10:48 that's why I've starting taking pictures in NEF (Nikon Raw format) Feb 13 16:11:09 vlj: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG#Sample_photographs Feb 13 16:11:26 but why sensor does not always provide raw format by default ? Feb 13 16:11:55 I mean, it is more difficult to take an image, then to compress it, then return it, than to just take and return it ? Feb 13 16:12:32 digital compares take the raw picture, apply settings (such as light balance) and produce a jpeg Feb 13 16:12:58 vlj, performance and quality wise, in embedded sensors it is not always straightforward. Almost all time such small sensors require additional processing before the data is returned anyway. Frontend camera on N900 is a good example Feb 13 16:13:58 :/ Feb 13 16:14:06 consider also that sensor is highly packaged in a constrained environment with many other elements -- including atennas which produce heat over time Feb 13 16:14:17 vlj: just found something called Jpeg XR, might support loseless Feb 13 16:15:17 there were many attempts to use JPEG-like methods to compress images. Some are based on wavelets, some are on other techniques. None had took over for various reasons, including eagerness of inventors to get patent revenues. Feb 13 16:15:50 ab: I know but I think that if the user requires the sensor to return raw data , the user (who know what he does ;) ) can handle processing in a software manner Feb 13 16:16:16 for some cases 100% can be lossless it seems. Feb 13 16:16:16 $ printf "P2 8 8 255 $(seq 1 255)" > a.pgm; convert -quality 50 a.pgm a.jpg; convert a.jpg a2.pgm; convert a.pgm a3.pgm; cmp a3.pgm a2.pgm Feb 13 16:16:20 a3.pgm a2.pgm differ: char 16, line 4 Feb 13 16:16:20 $ printf "P2 8 8 255 $(seq 1 255)" > a.pgm; convert -quality 100 a.pgm a.jpg; convert a.jpg a2.pgm; convert a.pgm a3.pgm; cmp a3.pgm a2.pgm; echo $? Feb 13 16:16:23 0 Feb 13 16:18:26 anyway there is FCam but I wished there was a more "portable" manner to do things Feb 13 16:18:43 FCam is provided in Meego too or is it just available in Maemo ? Feb 13 16:20:07 vlj, FCam hopefully will be part of MeeGo. Feb 13 16:20:19 mm? Feb 13 16:20:52 that means that a Meego shipping device should allow devs to access raw images Feb 13 16:20:54 Stskeeps, of course, that depends a lot on what someone like Intel would like to address in imaging area. Feb 13 16:21:23 hey meegoists :) Feb 13 16:21:25 vlj, as I said, there are so many different sensors that simply don't provide RAW data. Feb 13 16:21:32 if Meego is to be pushed on handset, imaging aera is a main differenciator Feb 13 16:22:08 ab: yep but if FCam is in Meego, hardware manufacturer will have to choose a "raw compliant" sensor Feb 13 16:22:21 or it will break Meego API coherency Feb 13 16:22:50 vlj, nope. FCam is a tool to provide fine grained access to the imaging equipment but it cannot magically go over what is provided by the chipset Feb 13 16:22:57 except if there is a "bool provide_raw()" function in fcam... Feb 13 16:23:04 shame cameras don't use PNG Feb 13 16:23:08 ab: are there any current efforts to port FCam to Meego? Feb 13 16:23:15 Hey all, proud to be here, happy to see people still going strong. Feb 13 16:23:43 aboyer, barring obvious packaging issues, it should work on MeeGo/N900 already, hopefully. I haven't tried. Feb 13 16:24:27 does aava still makes phone that can accept Meego on it ? Feb 13 16:24:42 aboyer__, I have tried to get it into next Nokia's MeeGo-related device but we haven't finished yet so no comments :) Feb 13 16:25:12 CosmoHill, PNG is not a holy grail Feb 13 16:26:10 it's better than jpeg for hdr though Feb 13 16:26:36 just thinking, if my camera took loseless PNGs instead of NEF I wouldn't need to install software / buy software to view or edit them Feb 13 16:27:09 ab: there is a linear algebra lib embedded in quilimagefilter ? Feb 13 16:27:16 vlj, no Feb 13 16:27:26 but you can write a filter that uses one Feb 13 16:28:02 hdr relies on singular value decomposition for good result (on the mathematical aspect) Feb 13 16:28:24 this is not a trivial algorithm so it needs to be provided by some algebra library Feb 13 16:28:37 you're using fftw ? Feb 13 16:28:55 vlj: eigen.tuxfamily.org Feb 13 16:29:23 vlj, yes, eigen would be the obvious choice Feb 13 16:29:26 ok Feb 13 16:29:37 as it also has explicit NEON optimizations Feb 13 16:29:41 I worked a bit on eigen too Feb 13 16:29:53 (do not rely on implcit ones by compiler yet, btw) Feb 13 16:30:03 eigen 3 which is unreleased, has neon optimizations for arm Feb 13 16:30:18 aboyer__, yep, that's what I refer Feb 13 16:30:29 but I though lapack was the "obvious" choice as it is standard, and intel provides an optimised routines for it Feb 13 16:30:32 beta3 has been released yesterday Feb 13 16:30:42 s/routines/library Feb 13 16:32:12 ab: nice! Feb 13 16:32:54 vlj: before going with lapack, take a look at eigen, it's really nice to work with... Feb 13 16:33:08 I know the api is clean and verbose Feb 13 16:33:36 vlj, eigen has BLAS implemented on top of it Feb 13 16:33:54 and partial LAPACK as well Feb 13 16:34:05 not full but chances are that your relevant parts are covered Feb 13 16:34:20 I will look at it :) Feb 13 16:41:31 sivang: ping Feb 13 16:45:35 lol, motorola xoom for 1200 at bb Feb 13 16:45:49 a knee slapper Feb 13 16:46:03 wow Feb 13 16:46:04 rofl Feb 13 16:47:53 irz: with locked wifi ? Feb 13 16:48:16 http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Motorola+-+XOOM+Tablet+/+NVIDIA+Tegra+Processor+/+10.1"+Display+/+1GB+Memory+/+32GB+Hard+Drive+-+Licorice/1946179.p;jsessionid=5528C8925146A42423095B00A46F222F.bbolsp-app04-54?id=1218305636450&skuId=1946179 Feb 13 16:48:29 seems free Feb 13 16:49:32 http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/13/intel-promises-teases-meego-smartphone-and-tablet-for-mwc/ <= there is still hope Feb 13 16:49:50 im still missing amd here Feb 13 16:50:24 let them begin their work ;) Feb 13 16:50:37 they're entering Meego to support their fusion chip Feb 13 16:50:56 atm there is no fusion powered netbook available Feb 13 16:51:01 vlj: so an Intel handset is it gonna be? Feb 13 16:51:27 maybe Feb 13 16:51:42 mwc starts tomorrow Feb 13 16:53:07 Venemo_N900: the device shows really looks like the HTC touch diamond 2 Feb 13 16:53:17 shown Feb 13 16:54:06 seems to be a "dev only" device Feb 13 16:54:09 36 minutes till nokia show Feb 13 16:54:12 like previous aava phone Feb 13 16:54:31 I only hope it won't cost as much Feb 13 16:55:39 ukas: is there live video somewhere? Feb 13 16:56:12 lindi-: wait a moment Feb 13 16:56:58 dont know Feb 13 16:57:06 chouchoune: the UX on the pics are really interesting though Feb 13 16:57:10 http://www.nokia.com/press/mwc2011 it was only this site Feb 13 16:57:38 chouchoune: I don't recognize it as any of the current reference UXes Feb 13 16:57:50 Venemo_N900: yes, looks good Feb 13 16:58:06 mmmhhh, looks like tablet UX adapted to phones Feb 13 16:58:18 ukas: ok I guess no video by nokia at least then Feb 13 16:58:25 chouchoune: yeah. if they also shipped a 4-5" tablet, I'd be sold. Feb 13 16:58:27 yeah Feb 13 16:58:41 same for me ;) Feb 13 17:00:04 chouchoune: in this case, I wouldn't even care if nokia went bankrupt next week :P Feb 13 17:00:19 chouchoune: after what they've done, they deserve it Feb 13 17:01:20 I agree Feb 13 17:02:26 and, if Nokia announced his Meego phone during MWC ? But it would be quite disturbing ... Feb 13 17:02:51 but I canùt imagine how they could let other sell Meego Phones before them !!! Feb 13 17:03:01 thiago, one point of concern is that Qt will indeed continue, much like MySQL is continuing inside Oracle, the problem is that waiting 3 years to see if it works out isn't what the rest of the world has in mind, so maybe an EGCS like fork is best and re-merge in a few years Feb 13 17:03:30 chouchoune: well if they still continue with MeeGo as they planned then I may forgive them Feb 13 17:03:30 worst thing that can happen is a qt fork. Feb 13 17:03:34 API compatibility is key. Feb 13 17:04:04 well the Qt guys seem pretty convinced that Qt will live on Feb 13 17:04:09 doesn't kde have even permission to relicense the whole thing if development does not continue? Feb 13 17:04:12 i'm quite convinced of that too by now Feb 13 17:04:26 Should Nokia discontinue the development of the Qt Free Edition under these licenses, then the Foundation has the right to release Qt under a BSD-style license or under other open source licenses. Feb 13 17:04:27 jarkko^: licensing doesn't matter when you can't assume your qt app will work across implementations Feb 13 17:04:32 http://www.kde.org/community/whatiskde/kdefreeqtfoundation.php Feb 13 17:04:44 fragmentation == ba Feb 13 17:04:45 d Feb 13 17:04:53 here we go again... Feb 13 17:05:10 yes but why do you assume that it would fragment as a community project? Feb 13 17:05:23 because Qt only makes sense if it has one API Feb 13 17:05:25 i see that similar situation as in xfree86 -> xorg Feb 13 17:05:32 actually it would be nice if they bargained with M$ to port Qt to WP7 Feb 13 17:05:36 ab & vlj: damn you both for distracting me and making look at photo software Feb 13 17:05:42 :p Feb 13 17:05:43 jarkko^: if there's two qt impls going on, we have a problem Feb 13 17:06:28 coo, preview supports DNG giles Feb 13 17:06:29 that's probably true, i agree.. Feb 13 17:06:32 files* Feb 13 17:06:37 is there even NDK like thing for WP7? Feb 13 17:06:47 jarkko^: no Feb 13 17:06:51 jarkko^: no Feb 13 17:06:51 there will be no Qt on WP7 Feb 13 17:06:51 wasn't it so that only selected vendors can do native Feb 13 17:06:54 forget it Feb 13 17:07:00 Stskeeps, also, if there are two, the license differences would prevent remerging at later date? Feb 13 17:07:01 like adobe for flash Feb 13 17:07:13 thiago_home: so what'll happen to Nokia's promise about Qt? Feb 13 17:07:30 sounds odd to not have ndk like thing Feb 13 17:07:30 Venemo_N900: Qt everywhere depends on the will of the OS vendors Feb 13 17:07:40 Venemo_N900: MS doesn't want it, Apple probably doesn't want it either Feb 13 17:07:44 jarkko^: android didn't have ndk for long time Feb 13 17:07:56 how game companies are going to use their investments for game engines just as an example Feb 13 17:08:14 if WP7 becomes major platform they will have to have ndk Feb 13 17:08:19 when we were considering an Android port (yeah, we did consider it), it only made sense if someone shipped it and convinced Google to take it Feb 13 17:08:19 thiago_home: and in exchange for Nokia giving up their own OS, MS shoul allow Qt port Feb 13 17:08:24 maybe the new MeeGo budget allocations inside Nokia will reveal, but devices/handset(s) is really the key thing I myself was hoping for (even if not a highly software polished as N900 was, at least there is a device with device support) Feb 13 17:08:26 otherwise it is impossible to port games etc. to the platform Feb 13 17:08:31 that whas when there were a handful of device manufacturers and Google depended on them Feb 13 17:08:35 jarkko^: MS forces everyone who wants to make games to use XNA basically Feb 13 17:08:36 Venemo_N900: yeah, but that didn't happen, that way very appearant Feb 13 17:08:44 Venemo_N900: not gonna happen. The deal is WP full package. Feb 13 17:08:53 Venemo_N900: I don't have to like it to understand it. Feb 13 17:09:01 Stskeeps: still, it's sad Feb 13 17:09:12 Venemo_N900: there's a lot of sad things about this, but it's reality Feb 13 17:09:22 right Feb 13 17:09:27 odin_: there will be at least one MeeGo device this year Feb 13 17:09:29 ahiemstra: but it is biggest app industry in the world and some of the hit games rely on complex technology stack that is usually done with native languages Feb 13 17:09:36 ok, it's Harmattan, but should be good enough Feb 13 17:09:51 but I don't understand what nokia gains for this Feb 13 17:09:53 so i would be more than surprised if there wasn't launch of ndk Feb 13 17:10:00 Venemo_N900: gains WP Feb 13 17:10:08 Venemo_N900: gains an ecosystem that has started Feb 13 17:10:11 but I agree fragmentation of the QT API is not good for the Nokia single-API approach, but I never care for Symbian myself, and I believe from media the Qt desktop aspects of the API trail behind and could do with some more energy Feb 13 17:10:18 Venemo_N900: as much as we believe in MeeGo and Qt, we're behind Feb 13 17:10:24 we simply ran out of time Feb 13 17:10:29 jarkko^: yes, which means only games specifically created for wm7 will run on it, which means most popular games won't run on it by default Feb 13 17:10:40 thiago_home: on the contrary, I would say that you never had time from the moment Elop was elected Feb 13 17:10:49 of course, that's pure conjecture Feb 13 17:10:51 well if I wanted WP7, I certainly wouldn't buy from Nokia Feb 13 17:10:51 wmarone: that is just not true Feb 13 17:11:05 the only reason I bought Nokia stuff is becuase they offered a good alternative software Feb 13 17:11:07 thiago, yes sure on the new device this year, but I was kind of hoping for one next year too :) to early to say for sure ... maybe ideally _ALL_ Nokia hardware can have a MeeGo compatible bootloader :) even if Nokia do not provide any polished OS Feb 13 17:11:19 wmarone: I may not be privy to his decision making, but I know people who are. Stop spreading conspiracy theories. Feb 13 17:11:21 jarkko^: and then of course only the less-demanding ones Feb 13 17:11:23 they are just plain false. Feb 13 17:11:35 jarkko^: stuff like UE3 on wm7 will never be possible Feb 13 17:11:48 odin_: that would be great, but at this point the entire portfolio for 2012 is probably being reconsidered Feb 13 17:12:09 thiago_home: as a Nokia employee, how do you personally feel about this? Feb 13 17:12:16 odin_: there were more meego devices planned, of course. What will happen to them, only time will tell. Feb 13 17:12:23 thiago_home: I hope it doesn't threaten your job Feb 13 17:12:29 Venemo_N900: betrayed, like a dream being crushed. Feb 13 17:12:39 I'm moving on with my adapting to the news Feb 13 17:13:03 I'm in the angry-baragaining phase Feb 13 17:13:16 thiago_home: same here :) Feb 13 17:13:25 thiago_home: I feel sorry for all the people like you who feel this way. especially the ones who're going to be fired Feb 13 17:13:25 there's a fitting youtube video about what we're all collectively feeling.. Feb 13 17:13:50 * thiago_home is more worried about the subcontractors and ecosystem companies who made a bet on meego Feb 13 17:14:06 hopefully intel and new partners will pick it up Feb 13 17:14:08 odin_: IMHO it doesn't make sense for N to go with more than one of Symbian/MeeGo/WP7. What choice would have been best is hard to say. Feb 13 17:14:12 thiago_home: oh yeah, heard about a bunch of them yesterday Feb 13 17:14:25 r there going to be new partners? Feb 13 17:14:29 Aparna: we'll see Feb 13 17:14:46 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBvozWsdu5c <- got to love robot chicken Feb 13 17:14:48 thiago_home: for example, 80% of Jartza's courses were cancelled Feb 13 17:14:53 Aparna: I really don't know now. But stay tuned from news from MWC. Feb 13 17:15:02 MWC stands for? Feb 13 17:15:08 Mobile World Congress Feb 13 17:15:11 ah ok Feb 13 17:15:18 thiago_home: the good news is that the new tablet UX is already causing buzz.. Feb 13 17:15:21 yep waiting for something from there. Feb 13 17:15:29 I know of companies that were interested and were ready to adopt meego Feb 13 17:15:38 whether that has changed, this week will tell Feb 13 17:15:47 Stskeeps: do you know if it's going to be OSS? Feb 13 17:15:51 * Aparna wants "Long live Meego rather than long ago lived MeeGo Feb 13 17:15:56 Venemo_N900: i hope so :/ Feb 13 17:16:01 Stskeeps: where's the tablet ux? Feb 13 17:16:09 thp: check meego twitter Feb 13 17:16:13 some funny things there Feb 13 17:16:18 Stskeeps: we'll know tomorrow I guess... right? Feb 13 17:16:21 yeah Feb 13 17:16:56 if anything, meego isn't dead and i'll do my part to make sure it doesn't die, at least on MeeGo ARM side. Feb 13 17:17:00 :P Feb 13 17:17:12 Stskeeps Feb 13 17:17:21 Stskeeps: thanks for that :) Feb 13 17:17:31 Stskeeps: it seems that a nvidia engineer is working on a tegra port Feb 13 17:17:38 http://www.msqt.org/index.html Feb 13 17:17:40 vlj: yeah, i know Feb 13 17:17:43 What is MSQt library? Feb 13 17:17:49 joke Feb 13 17:17:55 ah ok :) Feb 13 17:17:57 Stskeeps: I guess ARM side is the most interesting question with Intel as main company... Feb 13 17:17:58 Stskeeps: is there any sign that Nokia reduced MeeGo's funding? Feb 13 17:18:02 Stskeeps: oh, just that one picture of the tablet? Feb 13 17:18:07 Stskeeps: this may mean a lot of tegra powered Meego tablet next year Feb 13 17:18:22 thp: there was a pre-alpha video in the summer Feb 13 17:18:35 thp: also beta some months ago. Feb 13 17:18:43 venemo_n900: yes there was, in investor announcement. Feb 13 17:18:44 bunk, I agree... this is great for MS to be in a position to stagnate an opposing market, I read that Elop is 7th on the top shard holders of Microsoft, but it is very difficult to not see this motive if all these facts are true Feb 13 17:18:54 Venemo_N900: yep, saw that video, but already forgot about it ;) Feb 13 17:18:59 jmk: that's bad news Feb 13 17:19:04 thp: me too Feb 13 17:19:13 Venemo_N900: the interesting part is -when- this happens. Feb 13 17:19:35 thp: if it's gonna be OSS and will run on a 4-5" tablet, I can totally imagine me buying it Feb 13 17:19:48 something will remain but with fraction of the budget Feb 13 17:20:19 odin_: N has a history of changing it's main strategy every 1-2 years, so stay tuned for N switching to Android in 2012... 8-) Feb 13 17:20:21 Venemo_N900: yep, sure Feb 13 17:20:27 bastards, Adobe Fireworks won't read NEF or DNG formats Feb 13 17:20:38 I guess the guys at Intel are very pissed Feb 13 17:21:04 except that this strategy comes with vendor-lock-in :-/ Feb 13 17:21:34 * Venemo_N900 has just read the past few day's MeeGo community mailing list Feb 13 17:21:39 ditch all own software assets, replace with single-supplier strategy. I really can't understand this.... Feb 13 17:21:59 jmk: noone can. Feb 13 17:22:04 so, how will each of you help to make MeeGo a success anyway? Feb 13 17:22:20 i mean, we can discuss to the end of the world about the failures :) Feb 13 17:22:22 keep my mouth shut ? haha Feb 13 17:22:26 unfortunatly, a law degree isn't going to do much Feb 13 17:22:32 odin_: work on ipv6 Feb 13 17:22:55 Stskeeps: depends on if the discussion on the mailing list proceeds down the "not open" path that I interpreted the discussion as having Feb 13 17:22:57 Stskeeps, the only thing we can do is to continue polishing Harmattan and Qt in it. Feb 13 17:22:58 but lobbying is all i can offer Feb 13 17:23:33 wmarone: errm.? Feb 13 17:23:43 Stskeeps: smoku and me are working on an actually usable UX. http://codex.xiaoka.com/wiki/cordia:start Feb 13 17:24:05 or was I just reading it wrong Feb 13 17:24:15 re ipv6, sure I think the main thing I need to do now is look at the UI (all my other testing/checks indicate its good enough to slap some UI on it) Feb 13 17:25:03 ab: for instance, or help improve the reference uis in meego, etc Feb 13 17:25:41 Stskeeps: no offence, but lots of people dislike the direction of the handset reference ux Feb 13 17:25:51 Venemo_N900: wait for tomorrow.. Feb 13 17:25:51 :P Feb 13 17:26:02 Stskeeps: what'll happen? Feb 13 17:26:06 Stskeeps: development behind closed doors? Feb 13 17:26:31 Venemo_N900, https://picasaweb.google.com/meetmeego/MobileWorldCongress2011?fgl=true&pli=1#5573136000090017794 will happen Feb 13 17:26:35 jbos_bk: hi, currently we only do home: projects Feb 13 17:27:02 ok Feb 13 17:27:17 A few of us have started a CO team to address this Feb 13 17:27:21 smoku: I think I've seen it Feb 13 17:27:47 essentially I've said a Team area needs some policy definition and process Feb 13 17:27:51 lbt: I'm still interested to do that project we talked about, just need to find out if I get the people to do it Feb 13 17:28:00 wmarone: i need to read that closer.. Feb 13 17:28:10 dm8tbr: I expected as much :) Feb 13 17:28:13 smoku: it doesn't really mean anything for us in the case if that ux is closed source Feb 13 17:28:48 Venemo_N900: i'm personaly hoping that intel does the 'right thing' in order to bootstrap meego. Feb 13 17:28:55 if the UI is closed source it -will- be used against the whole project Feb 13 17:29:02 Stskeeps: agreed :) Feb 13 17:29:07 so jbos_bk, you mentioned that there's an upstream project and you are working on the MeeGo packaging/work here Feb 13 17:29:21 this seems like a typical and +ve use case Feb 13 17:29:28 wmarone: opposed to all other UXes, that one is not developed in the open Feb 13 17:29:44 wmarone: so chances are that it's not gonna be oss... but who knows? Feb 13 17:30:04 long story short, big companies has open source approval processes which means that things take time to make it into open Feb 13 17:30:08 :P Feb 13 17:30:15 yes, so basically one guy of our team is right know doing more or less frequent builds in his home project Feb 13 17:30:20 Venemo_N900: right, just gives oss-haters ammunition Feb 13 17:30:31 wmarone: heh. Feb 13 17:30:44 jbos_bk: that's good Feb 13 17:30:49 what we would like is to provide our application to a bigger audience Feb 13 17:30:55 Stskeeps: yeah, but handset ux was developed in the open from scratch Feb 13 17:31:07 Venemo_N900: errm.. no Feb 13 17:31:07 without haveing then first visiting our website and such Feb 13 17:31:13 yep ... so I'm thinking about how to structure work like this Feb 13 17:31:17 but having more visibility on meego.com Feb 13 17:31:18 Venemo_N900: people aren't remembering handset day one Feb 13 17:31:18 Stskeeps: hm. Feb 13 17:31:34 Stskeeps: oh, you are right Feb 13 17:31:35 jbos_bk: remind me... what's the app/code Feb 13 17:31:43 Stskeeps: it wasn't totally from scratch Feb 13 17:31:50 find it here peregrine-communicator.org Feb 13 17:32:10 and code here: http://gitorious.org/peregrine Feb 13 17:32:11 Handset was DROPPED in.. it didn't start in the open. Feb 13 17:32:41 so Team:Peregrine would be an integration area for you ? Feb 13 17:32:49 yea Feb 13 17:32:50 :D Feb 13 17:33:23 TSCHAKeee: yeah, I get it Feb 13 17:33:45 how would it be structured? what QA is there? who has rights to which areas? how do I handle the main people going AWOL Feb 13 17:34:02 how do I know you're really from peregrine-communicator.org ;) Feb 13 17:34:51 what is peregrine-communicator ? Feb 13 17:34:53 these are the kind of common sense minimal things I want to set as 'to be answered' before giving some random irc guy 'ownership' of your project's team area Feb 13 17:35:07 yep Feb 13 17:35:09 i see that Feb 13 17:35:48 so... if you help me answer them and flesh them out ... you get a Team area Feb 13 17:36:08 http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Task_Forces/MeeGo_Surrounds_and_Apps Feb 13 17:36:55 after reading the mailing list, I agree with the guy who said that Red Hat should get involved with MeeGo Feb 13 17:37:11 http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/13/live-from-an-evening-with-nokia-at-mwc-2011/ Feb 13 17:37:16 Stskeeps, there will be bunch of meego demos by Novomok at the MWC Feb 13 17:37:24 http://nomovok.com/company/news Feb 13 17:37:28 ab: yeah, i know Feb 13 17:37:35 ok whats the best way to do this, I will write you a mail from my team account and prove that I'm really from the team :) Feb 13 17:38:40 jbos_bk: actually ... what *I* care about is having a documented policy for MeeGo that you're following Feb 13 17:38:51 luckily you get to write the policy.... then follow it Feb 13 17:39:07 depends how bad you want a Team: area ;) Feb 13 17:39:12 :D Feb 13 17:39:28 we will "get round to it" .... but if you help we get there quicker Feb 13 17:39:34 hmm Feb 13 17:39:40 nokia MWC thing up on engadget Feb 13 17:39:46 wmarone: yeah.. following Feb 13 17:39:56 let's watch it in the #meego-bar, less shop talk Feb 13 17:40:21 well i think it would be cool to have those team area so its just fair to help structuring it Feb 13 17:41:08 this is a new area ... this : http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2011/01/meego-community-development-apps.html explains some of my random thinking Feb 13 17:42:03 ab: ouch, I see what you mean, I have an image that is 3.9MB DNG, 4.9MB NEF and 26.6MB PNG Feb 13 17:43:02 jbos_bk: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Task_Forces/MeeGo_Surrounds_and_Apps#Initial_Steps now has "Teams" link Feb 13 17:43:15 note that opensuse OBS has something a little like this Feb 13 17:44:02 Nokia is gaining revenues from advertising with WP7 Feb 13 17:44:07 http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/13/live-from-an-evening-with-nokia-at-mwc-2011/ Feb 13 17:44:14 jbos_bk: https://build.opensuse.org/project/show?package=&project=devel%3Alanguages%3Aruby%3Aextensions Feb 13 17:44:26 pool meego Feb 13 17:44:27 vlj: #meego-bar, please :0 Feb 13 17:44:43 CosmoHill, in addition to that, PNG design leaves you very little ways to optimize it in constraint environments like N900 Feb 13 17:44:50 CosmoHill, it is horribly slow :) Feb 13 17:45:06 abandoned by nokia Feb 13 17:45:25 is it possible to watch Nokia @ MWC live? Feb 13 17:45:29 ab: what is the "best" format to reduce memory footprint and that is lossless ? Feb 13 17:45:45 format that is optimised for photo, ie 24 bits Feb 13 17:45:58 Aranel: #meego-bar and live blog ;) Feb 13 17:46:11 Stskeeps: okay ^^ Feb 13 17:46:26 vlj, I wish I could say. DNG is nice, though. Feb 13 17:46:39 I guess it is an open format ? Feb 13 17:47:40 yeah, lot to read. so lets go lbt Feb 13 17:48:04 vlj, the spec is open by Adobe and it tries to get the format through ISO Feb 13 17:48:10 ok Feb 13 17:49:34 jbos_bk: so... setting expectations, unless you write like a BSD mascot and we happen to totally agree on scope this is going to take at least a few days or longer. I'd like to see an outline/draft go on the wiki and then get to the ml Feb 13 17:51:21 yep ok than I would say, lets get started Feb 13 17:51:39 So, Nokia didn't show a single image prototype in "meego phase", and now it shows with WP7 Feb 13 17:51:53 topeira: #meego-bar please :) Feb 13 17:52:25 Stskeeps: sorry Feb 13 17:53:15 meego-bar has less people. http://www.hudieai.com/?fromuid=136809 Feb 13 17:53:27 share1: yeah, but this is a place of work Feb 13 17:54:31 someone punt share1 Feb 13 17:54:50 oh~ sorry,I's leave and have a sleep now... Feb 13 17:55:23 because today is valentine's day Feb 13 17:55:53 it will be quite interesting what people will dig out of what is being said the on stage Feb 13 17:56:23 Ironically, it is very predictable what people will think Feb 13 17:56:50 RST38h, take for example the phrase of 6:55pm :) Feb 13 17:56:59 URL? Feb 13 17:57:10 http://www.hudieai.com/?fromuid=136809 Feb 13 17:57:18 RST38h, the above engadget's live from MWC Feb 13 17:57:25 http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/13/live-from-an-evening-with-nokia-at-mwc-2011/?sort=newest&refresh=60 Feb 13 17:57:52 ab: please take it to #meego-bar Feb 13 17:58:33 ab: He means "If you can change your mindset, kneel down and continue working, otherwise look for other job opportunities" Feb 13 17:58:35 lbt, good idea, thanks. Feb 13 17:58:43 RST38h, let's go to the bar :) Feb 13 17:59:10 ab: I will go play with the younger kid for a few minutes :) Feb 13 17:59:48 RST38h, sure. Feb 13 18:13:48 huh? what happened to handset and netbook repos? Feb 13 18:14:06 smoku: we all merged into oss/non-oss Feb 13 18:14:08 they're all in the same repo Feb 13 18:14:18 why? Feb 13 18:14:35 smoku: easier procedures Feb 13 18:14:43 smoku: and everything is built for both 86 and arm now Feb 13 18:15:14 so both lines converged to the point we didn't have to separate? Feb 13 18:15:46 smoku: more like that there was no real reason not to mix Feb 13 18:18:18 Stskeeps: does that mean I can have handset ux on my desktop computer ? ;) Feb 13 18:18:28 vlj: yes Feb 13 18:18:47 with no issue at all ? Feb 13 18:19:27 hello Feb 13 18:21:00 huu Feb 13 18:21:21 hey mece Feb 13 18:21:30 \o Feb 13 18:21:33 what's up Feb 13 18:22:05 wasn't there suppose to be some elopocalypse event today? Feb 13 18:22:21 mece: engadget, and we're talking over in #Meego-bar Feb 13 18:22:28 mece: http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/13/live-from-an-evening-with-nokia-at-mwc-2011/ reading Feb 13 18:23:08 thanks sivang and Stskeeps Feb 13 18:54:14 hey guys Feb 13 18:54:23 first pic of a Nokia device running WP7: http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/nokia_microsoft2.jpg Feb 13 18:54:39 Venemo: wrong channel. This is #meego. Feb 13 18:54:40 Venemo, don't be hateful. Feb 13 18:54:58 sorry, couldn't resist :P Feb 13 18:55:57 Venemo: VNTFS.VXD? Me wants! Feb 13 19:25:00 http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/13/intel-promises-teases-meego-smartphone-and-tablet-for-mwc Feb 13 19:25:22 yeah.. hopefully that's a big bang we need in the middle of these bad news Feb 13 19:25:57 *nods* Intel saying it is good, but intel /doing/ it, yes, that'd be even better :) Feb 13 19:26:12 and... well, Fujitsu actually releasing a product, that is kinda nifty too ;) Feb 13 19:26:28 Intel does not produce devices. Donot forget it. Feb 13 19:26:48 RST38h: They don't as such - they do, however, produce reference solutions :) Feb 13 19:26:52 Stskeeps: I'm hoping so. if might bring me good news :) Feb 13 19:26:53 which is roughly as good ;) Feb 13 19:27:16 yeah Feb 13 19:27:25 reference solution is good Feb 13 19:29:25 reference "solution"? Feb 13 19:37:03 some lines before it has been sad that "I can have handset ux on my desktop computer". This means also that hanset image can be virtualizen in standard virtualbox environment? Feb 13 19:37:48 sure Feb 13 19:37:54 it's a plain, regular Linux Feb 13 19:38:10 hirabayashitaro: provided it can do GLESv2/EGL Feb 13 19:38:29 hi again Feb 13 19:38:55 ab: how can I run tests in quillimagesfilters ? Feb 13 19:39:08 I'll try it. Some special things to to? Any wiki/guide or something? Feb 13 19:40:32 vlj, there is testrunner.py which parses tests.xml and runs tests Feb 13 19:40:58 what's the correct location for .mo files to be in? /usr/lib/locale or /usr/share/locale ? Feb 13 19:40:59 ab: do I need libquill to run quillimagefilters ? Feb 13 19:41:10 vlj, or you can run them from tests/bin/ manually, they are just normal qt test framework tests Feb 13 19:41:13 (plz say no plz say no) Feb 13 19:41:18 vlj, no, you don't Feb 13 19:41:24 thx :p Feb 13 19:41:41 vlj, libquill is for higher level things like multiple levels management Feb 13 19:41:51 multiple level management ? Feb 13 19:42:05 vlj, quill supports multiple preview levels per image Feb 13 19:42:16 ho ok Feb 13 19:42:33 vlj, you define them and then needed preview levels can be loaded and filters will be run on those Feb 13 19:42:47 ab: tests can run on a x86 desktop computer ? Feb 13 19:42:48 so you can have full screen preview and full image, for example Feb 13 19:43:02 with no simulator at all ? Feb 13 19:43:02 vlj, yes, all works there too Feb 13 19:43:20 thx Feb 13 19:44:10 vlj, however, quillimagefilters' tests (some of them) require quillmetadata library Feb 13 19:44:19 as Qt imaging classes ignore metadata Feb 13 19:44:24 wait a moment, where can I find the latest handset release to test on vbox? Feb 13 19:44:36 hirabayashitaro: repo.meego.com Feb 13 19:45:23 ok Feb 13 19:45:47 bye folks Feb 13 19:46:00 Stskeeps: more specific hint? I'm really sorry (and stupid) but cannot manage to understand which is which Feb 13 19:46:29 hirabayashitaro: handset-ia32-mtf Feb 13 19:47:19 Stskeeps: so this is what I'm searching for I suppose http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/1.1.90.2.20110208.4/handset/images/meego-handset-ia32-mtf/ Feb 13 19:47:28 yeah Feb 13 19:48:13 * vlj is compiling quilimagefilters project Feb 13 19:48:45 ab: there is no facedetection algorithm yet ? Feb 13 19:49:31 that's pretty advanced stuff Feb 13 19:50:12 vlj, no open source version yet Feb 13 19:50:19 ok Feb 13 19:50:30 I guess almost every company has their own version :) Feb 13 19:50:32 gee and i thought MeeGo@Nokia was no more: http://nokia.taleo.net/careersection/10120/jobsearch.ftl?lang=en&radiusType=K&radius=1&organization=2746770113868&searchcriteria.state=false Feb 13 19:50:52 npm, these are jobs posted before, this is automated system Feb 13 19:51:07 npm: meego isn't dead, nor at nokia Feb 13 19:51:16 posted 7 and 10 february!@ Feb 13 19:52:28 npm, so what, we didn't know about the deal before it was announced publicly Feb 13 19:54:35 hi. i have just installed meego on my netbook. i have problem- no wifi or wired connection. (need to install atheros and broadcom drivers)... but i need gcc to do this Feb 13 19:54:40 i should have added a smiley to "dead" Stskeeps... sorry. Feb 13 19:54:49 the question is: where i can download packages for meego? Feb 13 19:55:09 meegoer1: use your package manager Feb 13 19:55:21 meegoer1: zypper from the commandline, for instance Feb 13 19:55:35 jonnor: YEAH,.. Feb 13 19:56:11 jonnor: no wifi, no wired connection. no wifi, no wired connection.... Feb 13 19:56:44 meegoer1: sorry, didn't read though :) http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.1/ Feb 13 19:56:55 thanks Feb 13 19:57:23 meegoer1: but I would consider trying 1.2 prelease before spending to much time on fixing 1.1 Feb 13 19:57:26 is meego for netbooks dead? Feb 13 19:57:38 dvoid_: define dead Feb 13 19:57:39 ab: defaultfilter needs QuillimageMetadata Feb 13 19:57:51 jonnor, not developed anymore Feb 13 19:57:52 vlj, yep, as I said above Feb 13 19:57:54 dead?? Feb 13 19:57:59 that's the thing i find an odd leap. did any of the announcements even mention netbook? Feb 13 19:58:18 ab: it's not a test :) Feb 13 19:58:33 i have read alot about the netbook version not being developed anymore Feb 13 19:58:34 dvoid_: there has not been very much development on the standard netbook UX lately. There has been no announcements if this will pick up again though Feb 13 19:58:35 so why do people jump to that conclusion since nokia isn't into netbooks anyways Feb 13 19:58:39 jonnor: why should i install it when you say that meego for netbooks is "dead" Feb 13 19:58:42 (maybe because it uses gtk instead of qt) Feb 13 19:58:52 vlj, we need that anyway, proper save filter needs to preserve metadata in images loaded through load filter Feb 13 19:59:15 even though a meego tablet with nice nokia build quality/design would be an ipad killer Feb 13 19:59:20 npm, netbook UX was part of moblin, i.e. coming from Intel Feb 13 19:59:40 would be nice with a qt based ui for netbooks ;) Feb 13 19:59:50 maybe adapt the tablet ui Feb 13 19:59:55 meegoer1: the netbook UX is still supported, and that it has not gotten much love lately might just be temporary Feb 13 20:00:08 my son had an assignment to write a business letter to a company executive. guess which executive he chose (he uses meego netbook) Feb 13 20:00:32 ab: do I need defaultplugin to build everything else ? Feb 13 20:00:41 can meego run vmware? Feb 13 20:00:49 top gear time Feb 13 20:01:35 (not meego ON vmware, i'd like to consider installing vmware on meego for ie. winxp) Feb 13 20:01:50 vlj, default filters need quillimagefilter, quillmetadata, libjpeg Feb 13 20:01:50 why not qemu? Feb 13 20:01:56 Meego is pretty standard GNU/Linux, it can run most things you'd see on standard distros. VmWare does not support Meego afaik, but I see no reason why it would not work Feb 13 20:02:04 vlj, and quill metadata needs exempi itself Feb 13 20:02:34 we are going to switch to libtag from gstgreamer "soon" so it will be self-contained for both EXIF and XMP parsing Feb 13 20:02:45 npm: qemu is not nice without kvm (few netbooks have the neccesary extensiosn). If you prefer an open source solution, consider VirtualBox Feb 13 20:02:47 yes, libexif is needed there too yet Feb 13 20:03:05 afaik meego netbook is tricky on vm's since it relies on compositing which is usualy not supported Feb 13 20:03:13 all dependencies are mentioned in either debian/ or in rpm specs in MeeGo Feb 13 20:03:14 jonner, I think some variants of vmware require virtualization support in the CPU, so that might be problematic. Also, vmware doesn't exist for ARM AFAIK. Feb 13 20:03:14 so is there a meego kvm? Feb 13 20:03:23 npm: what do you mean? Feb 13 20:03:44 you said it's not nice w/o kvm... Feb 13 20:04:34 but what about a non netbook running meego.. like one w/ a intel i3/i5/i7 Feb 13 20:04:45 kvm is a kernel feature, I believe it is enabled in the Meego kernel. But it requires hardware virtualizatione extensions which most netbooks don't have Feb 13 20:05:10 I don't see gcc package in repo... please help Feb 13 20:05:12 well you can get an athlonII or netbook these days Feb 13 20:05:16 ab: there is a lot of missing shared lib when I try to run a test Feb 13 20:05:25 alas amd graphics not supported... Feb 13 20:05:26 libquilimagefilter.so, lib_unittest.so ... Feb 13 20:05:28 yet Feb 13 20:05:49 is there an "easy" way to add shared libs to LD Library path ? Feb 13 20:06:11 LD_LIBRARY_PATH contains paths, not libs Feb 13 20:06:12 vlj, LD_LIBRARY_PATH Feb 13 20:06:14 export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/somewhere/ Feb 13 20:06:21 e.g. http://www.netbooknews.com/12936/amd-nile-based-asus-eee-pc-1015t-now-shipping-in-the-us-350/ Feb 13 20:06:27 yep but it is not handled by qt somehow ? Feb 13 20:06:39 no Feb 13 20:06:40 vlj: what do you mean? Feb 13 20:07:00 something like "make test" command Feb 13 20:07:52 http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.1/netbook/repos/ia32/packages/i586/ <- which package have "make" command included?? Feb 13 20:08:00 meegoer1: 'make', liekyl Feb 13 20:08:18 Stskeeps: nope. Feb 13 20:08:27 meegoer1: it is likely that 1.2 has the drivers you need. Please consider going that route instead Feb 13 20:08:31 meegoer1: it's in core/ Feb 13 20:08:43 ab: ut_crop test fails here :p Feb 13 20:08:50 1 passed, 2 failed Feb 13 20:08:58 i need broadcom 4313 drivers Feb 13 20:09:16 ab: testFullImage and testPreview with qt 4.7.1 Feb 13 20:11:46 Stskeeps: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/updates/1.1/core/repos/ia32/packages/ ? Feb 13 20:13:37 no, releases/ Feb 13 20:15:11 vlj, building... Feb 13 20:15:27 after installing 1.1 can I do upgrade to latest 1.2 ? Feb 13 20:15:43 yes Feb 13 20:17:36 netbook ux 1.1 works a lot faster on my atom d535 than ubuntu netbook version Feb 13 20:18:05 would be great if I'd run wifi connection on it, and upgrade to 1.2 Feb 13 20:18:20 okay, almost got gcc... 6MB to go Feb 13 20:19:31 vlj, it fails because it expects to load crop plugin from the system path (/usr/lib/qt4/plugins/quillimagefilters in my system) Feb 13 20:20:45 lobbying AAVA to make the phone available t end user : http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=2678 Feb 13 20:20:53 to* Feb 13 20:22:43 how to install package from disk? sorry, but i don't have manuals Feb 13 20:22:53 zypper packagename doesn't works Feb 13 20:23:14 vlj, works for me if I specify QT_PLUGIN_PATH to a local path where quill image filters are installed Feb 13 20:23:28 i.e. LD_LIBRARY_PATH=.. QT_PLUGIN_PATH=../qt4/plugins/ ./ut_crop Feb 13 20:24:01 vlj, when I'm in the debian/tmp/usr/lib/quillimagefilter-tests after dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot Feb 13 20:24:49 it should work with 4.7.1 (I'm testing with 4.6.3 in Debian) Feb 13 20:26:59 ab: how can I add a plugin ? Feb 13 20:27:11 I created a *.pro file Feb 13 20:27:18 and hdrplugin.h and .cpp Feb 13 20:27:48 and it says it does not find file quillimagefilter.h Feb 13 20:28:02 it seems there is something wrong with plugin.pri Feb 13 20:28:21 vlj, did you install the library and headers (make install)? Feb 13 20:28:26 jonnor: is there a .img for 1.2 prerelease? Feb 13 20:28:53 ab: ho sorry I made a typo Feb 13 20:30:15 Hello guys, how to get Aava developer device? Feb 13 20:30:25 with money Feb 13 20:30:25 Is there any market place for it? Feb 13 20:31:18 ah I see: http://www.aavamobile.com/cdk-pre-order.php Feb 13 20:31:29 valianholt: buy from them Feb 13 20:31:30 Thank you for your interest in Aava's h-SDK. Due to the volume of orders we have received, we've closed this page temporarily; please check back with us in Q1 2011. Feb 13 20:31:32 so I can't right now Feb 13 20:31:33 I think it's $2500 each Feb 13 20:31:40 yeah Feb 13 20:31:42 something like that Feb 13 20:31:54 or was it $2400 Feb 13 20:31:59 ehm Feb 13 20:32:01 a bit over 2 grands anyway Feb 13 20:32:02 why this expensive Feb 13 20:32:07 low volume Feb 13 20:32:13 that's prototype prices Feb 13 20:32:16 yep Feb 13 20:32:59 well, let's see what they release on MWC 2011 Feb 13 20:33:12 valianholt: who? Feb 13 20:33:38 sivaN900: Aava Mobile Feb 13 20:34:14 valianholt: I doubt they will release mass users devices Feb 13 20:34:15 ah , yes Feb 13 20:34:27 sure they won't Feb 13 20:34:27 aava uses atom right? Feb 13 20:34:44 the the price will be the same Feb 13 20:34:47 * sivaN900 goes back to meego arm setup Feb 13 20:34:48 yes, the new one which has to be presented on MWC, should be with Medfield atom Feb 13 20:35:00 which should be far better than current ARMs Feb 13 20:35:56 ab: QuillImage store a single image ? Feb 13 20:36:07 hdr needs several image to work Feb 13 20:36:46 valianholt, saying "better" implies only one axis of comparison :) Feb 13 20:37:24 vlj, yes, currently a single. Filter, however, may define own options. You can pass images through options and use the main one as a resulting one Feb 13 20:38:07 vlj, options' values are QVariant so anything that goes into QVariant and can be extracted from it by your filter is fine Feb 13 20:38:21 ok Feb 13 20:39:03 ab : I can extract info with doxygen ? Feb 13 20:39:49 vlj, you mean documentation? Feb 13 20:39:52 yup Feb 13 20:40:09 question to you guys: if you saw a device that instead of meego logo had MeeGo with a big R&D stamp over and the MeeGo figures were wearing helmets and other building gear, would you expect it to function as a normal meego device? Feb 13 20:40:17 vlj, we use doxygen, yes Feb 13 20:40:42 Stskeeps: I would expect it to have lasers Feb 13 20:40:46 Stskeeps: we? i think we'd accept it as a beta devices Feb 13 20:40:56 Stskeeps: the rest of the world? not so much. Feb 13 20:41:11 mmmm, mount a meego device with lasers on a shark... Feb 13 20:41:24 meego figures wearing village people gear would be better:) Feb 13 20:41:25 I would mount it on myself Feb 13 20:41:34 Stskeeps: I'd probably assume it's a decoy or fake Feb 13 20:41:37 thiago_home: we're discussing a bit how to seperate a development snapshot from a final meego release, also in terms of R&D projects, let's say a hardware adaptation under development Feb 13 20:41:37 ab: sorry to ask so much simple question, I'm not used to quillfilter file hierarchy yet :) Feb 13 20:41:43 :-> Feb 13 20:41:46 vlj, yep. Feb 13 20:42:04 thiago_home: and this is an initial idea on how to do that without seperating totally from meego Feb 13 20:42:16 and keeping compliance intact Feb 13 20:42:17 * Myrtti has grown suspicious and sceptic over the years Feb 13 20:42:34 vlj, if your system does support deb, just build packages and then you'll have documentation Feb 13 20:42:48 I'm using opensuse Feb 13 20:42:50 vlj, alternatively, you can take meego's rpms from trunk Feb 13 20:43:09 I guess src.rpms from there would work on opensuse mostly Feb 13 20:43:43 Stskeeps: define normal :) Feb 13 20:44:04 dm8tbr: LOL Feb 13 20:44:27 Stskeeps: who are "we"? Feb 13 20:44:36 hey sivang Feb 13 20:44:44 Venemo: hey! you pinged me? Feb 13 20:44:45 sivang: #wearemeego Feb 13 20:44:45 :P Feb 13 20:44:47 sivang, the illuminati, duh Feb 13 20:44:53 freemasons Feb 13 20:44:56 and the freemasons Feb 13 20:45:02 ? Feb 13 20:45:06 #wearethefreemasons Feb 13 20:45:06 and the cabal Feb 13 20:45:09 * sivang is not nativeenglish speaker Feb 13 20:45:17 sivang: FBI then Feb 13 20:45:30 what has fbi to do whti this channel? Feb 13 20:45:34 sivang: the LBE TF is the answer to your question Feb 13 20:45:36 or NSA, they're hiding the MeeGo prototypes at the area 51 Feb 13 20:45:37 sivang: yes. I was wondering if you really wrote to Mark Shuttleworth :P Feb 13 20:45:57 Myrtti: but there is NoSuchAgency!!!11! ;) Feb 13 20:46:18 diu diu diu diu Feb 13 20:46:20 Stskeeps: we are meego is empty :) Feb 13 20:49:53 ab: is there a plugin that accept a QuillImage as a QVariant ? Feb 13 20:52:39 Venemo: I try to do most of the stuff I say, writing an email to an open sourcer friend is not hard. Feb 13 20:53:01 sivang: so does this mean you did? :) Feb 13 20:53:08 Venemo: yes, why ? Feb 13 20:53:17 sivang: just out of curiosity Feb 13 20:53:31 Stskeeps: like opensuse factory? Feb 13 20:53:37 sivang: I would be more than happy if a competent person could pick up MeeGo Feb 13 20:54:12 sivang: I mean, a competent business person who knows how to deal with open source Feb 13 20:54:40 vlj, nope Feb 13 20:55:35 vlj, we'll be looking into multiple images per filter, at least this was a plan for future as FCam guys wanted it too for their algorithm developments in NRC Palo Alto Feb 13 20:56:09 Venemo: well, we'll see what happens. At least I am interested at what he has to say about this and I ope he will post it in his hbd blog Feb 13 20:56:41 vlj, however, our first priority is stability and speed for release. And here is a lot to do on some filters Feb 13 20:56:52 anyway , back to install guide Feb 13 20:56:56 ok Feb 13 20:56:59 sivang: :) Feb 13 20:57:05 Venemo: :) Feb 13 20:57:14 sivang: just ping me when you have some response :P Feb 13 20:57:22 Venemo: will do :) Feb 13 20:57:30 ab: I was wondering how I could retrieve a QuillImage from a QVariant Feb 13 20:57:48 sivang: also I'd be happy to see Red Had involved Feb 13 20:58:22 Another middleware company, though. Needs hardware! Feb 13 20:58:44 Jaffa: true, I think intel is going to pick that up this is my guess Feb 13 20:59:18 sivang: Intel don't have the logistics to be a consumer manufacturer, though. The best they can do is reference designs. Feb 13 20:59:31 Jaffa: they can get one in a blink of an ey Feb 13 20:59:46 actually guys, this is why I was happy to see Intel behind MeeGo. I was somehow afraid that Nokia may not finish it :P Feb 13 20:59:46 hmm, EMP distrubences whilke on th train Feb 13 20:59:49 sudden halts Feb 13 20:59:53 odd Feb 13 21:00:02 am I going through a black hole back in time? Feb 13 21:00:16 d12n: does it have different artwork? Feb 13 21:00:23 my lcd jittered like hell a ec a go Feb 13 21:00:25 sivang: please go back in time and prevent the nokia decision Feb 13 21:00:43 while you're at it, please bring a working meego back to january 2010 Feb 13 21:01:08 thiago_home: lol, I will try. but chances are more that the train might catch on ire Feb 13 21:01:11 fire Feb 13 21:01:14 re the former Feb 13 21:01:20 not about working meego in 2010 Feb 13 21:01:22 :) Feb 13 21:01:54 vlj, you can register QuillImage type via Q_DECLARE_METATYPE(QuillImage) and then use: Feb 13 21:02:01 QuillImage foo; Feb 13 21:02:02 anyone tried neither SHR and MeeGo? Feb 13 21:02:07 QVariant bar = foo Feb 13 21:02:17 QVariant Feb 13 21:02:26 QVariant::fromValue(foo) Feb 13 21:02:38 uneless QuillImage has operator QVariant() const Feb 13 21:02:41 QuillImage newfoo = bar.value(); Feb 13 21:02:47 right Feb 13 21:02:50 thiago_home, yep Feb 13 21:03:01 Stskeeps: no, or it isn't obvious Feb 13 21:03:35 ab: do I need to declare it in my own header ? Feb 13 21:04:37 where to get IRC logs please? above link does not work Feb 13 21:06:00 ab: there will be no useless recopy ? Feb 13 21:06:23 vlj, in your private header, http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7/qmetatype.html#Q_DECLARE_METATYPE Feb 13 21:06:31 vlj, no Feb 13 21:06:35 ok Feb 13 21:06:37 brb Feb 13 21:07:22 * ab off to sleep Feb 13 21:07:34 * sivang holds fingers for mSD backup not to halt kernel or netbook. (copying over usb, having issues with usb module on this kernel) Feb 13 21:15:06 Venemo: I take that you read that? http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/568 Feb 13 21:15:20 Venemo: old, but very interesting for qt Feb 13 21:15:24 sivang: not yet Feb 13 21:16:28 yay backu done! Feb 13 21:16:39 thiago_home: I wonder if windows phone could run Joikuspot:) Feb 13 21:16:55 sivang: hm, nice article Feb 13 21:16:57 thiago_home: it is the fear of operators in this small country :) Feb 13 21:18:47 what an amazing company Feb 13 21:18:52 http://www.joiku.com/?action=messages&mode=view&title_id=743 Feb 13 21:29:12 i'm back Feb 13 21:29:25 hey vlj Feb 13 21:32:26 thiago_home: does bar.value() where bar is QVariant trigger an exception if the type cannot be converted ? Feb 13 21:32:34 or does it simply segfault ? Feb 13 21:32:39 neither Feb 13 21:32:44 it returns SomeType() Feb 13 21:33:14 hm Feb 13 21:33:55 * vlj is missing exceptions in Qt :p Feb 13 21:36:04 vlj: can you not just use c++ exceptions? Feb 13 21:36:10 * sivang does not know hence asking Feb 13 21:36:36 vlj: we don't use exceptions Feb 13 21:36:53 I meant exception in c++ in Qt framework Feb 13 21:37:09 thiago_home: I known because of bad exception handling with some compiler Feb 13 21:37:27 mostly a historical condition Feb 13 21:37:35 but we've now made an API that doesn't use exceptions Feb 13 21:37:51 exceptions are really bad when dealing with events or signals and slots Feb 13 21:40:28 thiago_home, explain please Feb 13 21:40:50 mikhas: simple disconnect of things Feb 13 21:41:18 mikhas: all event handlers and all slots should never throw Feb 13 21:41:21 ab: quillImage represents 3 channels 8 bits image only ? Feb 13 21:42:15 is network connection detection broken in current trunk, or is it my installation broken? Feb 13 21:42:36 update manager and evolution both say that the network is unavailable :/ Feb 13 21:49:17 smoku, we were having problems but I thought it was peculiar to my target which does not have a built in mac so needs extra configuration. Have to toggle the network on each time Feb 13 21:52:31 anybody using meego 1.1 on nokia n900? is that possible at all? Feb 13 21:52:49 jozefk: yes, it is possible Feb 13 21:53:06 its possible to run it, I don't know if its possible to /use/ it Feb 13 21:53:16 is it working fine? Feb 13 21:53:18 at least, last time I tried it was not really useable Feb 13 21:53:18 :)) Feb 13 21:53:37 not usable? Feb 13 21:53:49 no, way too slow Feb 13 21:54:10 recent weeklies are said to be much faster Feb 13 21:54:13 might be related to a slow sd card though Feb 13 21:54:19 which phone is good for 1.1? Feb 13 21:54:19 so 1.2 could be nice Feb 13 21:54:26 the n900 Feb 13 21:54:29 dm8tbr: really? hm, sounds like I should try them then Feb 13 21:54:59 ahiemstra: beware TS acts weird, better wait for this weeks image Feb 13 21:55:04 jozefk: weekly images leading up to 1.2 is available, you can use that instead Feb 13 21:55:17 stskeeps:from your R&D Meego question, I actually started wondering, how I could find the actual Meego version I am running in the GUI Feb 13 21:55:39 dm8tbr: ok Feb 13 21:55:51 vgrade, I gather once apps start to be available in community OBS, it becomes almost trivial to create images including them? Feb 13 21:56:05 d12n: good point, in the filesystem there is something in /etc/ though Feb 13 21:56:14 weekly images are kind of release candidates or some betas or something right? is that stable enough? Feb 13 21:56:23 stskeeps: yes but is it accessible from the GUI? Feb 13 21:56:29 lcuk: that's how some of the community adaptations build Feb 13 21:57:01 d12n: well, xterm and then cat /etc/.... Feb 13 21:57:07 cool, so we can test a whole other aspect of meego once this gets into shape Feb 13 21:57:29 but i agree that there should be a flashy ui for it ;) Feb 13 21:57:31 jozefk: they are weeklies :) weeklies from early in an release cycle can be considered experimental. As things progress it should turn alpha, beta, rc stability Feb 13 21:57:49 but these are all just names anyhow Feb 13 21:58:16 ys just names but usually not that stable I think Feb 13 21:58:25 stskeeps: well I think it should be included in the GUI somewhere Feb 13 21:58:51 jozefk: if you are looking to replace maemo, come back when 1.3 gets released and have a look again. Feb 13 21:58:52 hey lbt, it took some time but i think I'm through all this Community App Links :) Feb 13 21:59:30 dm8tbr, yes that's what I was thinking about. when is 1.3 suppose to be released? Feb 13 21:59:38 October Feb 13 21:59:40 autumn Feb 13 21:59:51 so basically what I wonder, what is the current state. How far are we away of having a Community Driven Application Space Feb 13 22:00:17 jbos_bk: just a policy away :) Feb 13 22:00:38 how about nokia and phones? are they planning to make some phone with maemo or meego after n900? Feb 13 22:00:40 (btw. when will be deadline for 1.2 Applications, and how can we manage to get our application in 1.2 release= Feb 13 22:00:57 jozefk, if no one uses the weeklies, we cant fix bugs ;-) Feb 13 22:01:36 jozefk, yes they say the work on one.... I think that is true. Feb 13 22:01:38 mikhas, I thought developers use weeklies :) Feb 13 22:01:48 jbos_bk: I think there was already a freeze, but I didn't pay attention. you can of course build _for_ 1.2 Feb 13 22:02:00 mikhas, you should be using the daily testing images at least Feb 13 22:02:09 well, the way I "use" software while developing is very different from *you* using it Feb 13 22:02:12 there was a 'core' freeze iirc last week Feb 13 22:02:18 http://www.msqt.org/activeqt-opengl.html Feb 13 22:02:25 http://download.meego.com/testing-daily/builds/trunk/ Feb 13 22:02:59 the deal goes like this: you report, devs fix, you test & verify (assuming "you" is an user of F/OSS) Feb 13 22:04:09 there should be testers. developers, testers and users right? Feb 13 22:04:44 if no users then nobody really need the OS Feb 13 22:04:45 :) Feb 13 22:04:50 lbt, ok so lets say i would be happy to contribute help in that direction (to get some first policy on the way) what are the relevant people, outlines, places to put those stuff, who makes the decision in the end to go with it Feb 13 22:05:11 testers = users Feb 13 22:05:41 yes but not for weeklies Feb 13 22:05:49 oh sure, even for that Feb 13 22:05:58 its a bit unclear for me right now. I think there is something like a base around so ... Feb 13 22:06:36 jbos_bk: me, X-Fade and jaffa decide Feb 13 22:07:01 feel free to start putting stuff up in that Team page Feb 13 22:07:27 has source forge changed their website? Feb 13 22:07:29 I suppose you do have already something in mind some outline some expectations on how it should finally be :) Feb 13 22:07:36 my blog post Feb 13 22:07:41 ok Feb 13 22:08:08 that's a kind of meta guideline thing for discussion Feb 13 22:08:09 ok. :) i'm actually not the one then. :) I can report things from final releases. but I never use betas and RCs... and I know no OS is perfect. what makes you feel the OS is ready for final release? Feb 13 22:08:30 Team is actually a pretty simple area I think Feb 13 22:09:11 it can be a time schedule. but it's not always the reason Feb 13 22:09:22 Surrounds is most complex and depends on MeeGo direction as per http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2011/02/what-now-for-meego.html Feb 13 22:10:00 well i think this Team 'Project' Area is neither the less most important for Teams willing to contribute for Meego Baseline. Feb 13 22:10:02 Apps is also fairly easy based on maemo.org app process and policy Feb 13 22:10:21 yes, Teams could be a good place to push to core Feb 13 22:10:38 but I personally would like to see *less* in core rather than more Feb 13 22:11:02 and I'd like to see meego.com 'sign' Team release areas Feb 13 22:11:07 somehow Feb 13 22:11:51 yes, well of course you need to basically allow teams to make up the decision for what meego type they deliver. Feb 13 22:12:27 so maybe a Team simply does not have the people to make there project perfect for netbook, handset and ivi Feb 13 22:13:21 so other Team areas I expected were "KDE" and "Python" Feb 13 22:13:22 and of course what makes its quite more complicated is the fact that device vendors will bring in there own look'n'feel Feb 13 22:14:27 your use of Team to support something which is more of an app/middleware (?) wasn't explicit Feb 13 22:14:50 but since LibreOffice *was* on my mind then this is not too far off Feb 13 22:15:07 anyone here know who Tyson Key is? Feb 13 22:15:48 mhm i think its quite complicated to make the line between app for enduser and app for vendor Feb 13 22:16:12 so i wonder is this MeegoApps actually something for End Users Feb 13 22:16:25 Apps is an OSS app store Feb 13 22:16:41 why isn't Peregrine 'just' in the OSS app store ? Feb 13 22:16:49 a) too big Feb 13 22:16:59 b) has supporting libraries Feb 13 22:17:56 so like my neighbor going in the store buy a meego device and download / install my application which i deliver through meego.com Feb 13 22:18:13 yep Feb 13 22:18:35 have you followed the 'compliance' debate? Feb 13 22:18:55 http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=135 ? Feb 13 22:19:45 OK - that's not 'compliance' but yes, that's "Apps" Feb 13 22:20:03 http://apps-beta.meego.com/package/uxlaunch/meego_1.1_extras_handset_i586/0.50/ Feb 13 22:20:24 compliance means that essentially your app must only link to libs in 'core' Feb 13 22:20:43 I see Feb 13 22:20:59 which I'd guess would be a royal PITA for peregrine Feb 13 22:21:47 since I'd expect a decently architected app to abstract out the libs etc and reuse open source code that may not be in meego Feb 13 22:21:55 mhm well depends on the libs in core :D Feb 13 22:22:05 OK - *only* core? Feb 13 22:23:38 i think it should be fine with only core, since we kicked out meego touch, only use qml for ui and libqt4 telepathy (and some others) for the backend. Feb 13 22:23:52 OK ... so maybe you are *just* an app ;) Feb 13 22:24:26 in which case you may just need multiple maintainer support from the app store Feb 13 22:24:43 yea well, we fell like doing a sample ui to show, but everyone who like can make its own ui, its completely cut Feb 13 22:25:17 mhm what i wonder, how tide will this time obs be to an appstore Feb 13 22:26:05 the process will be src->OBS->appstore ... QA managed by BOSS Feb 13 22:26:46 architectural, it should be pretty flexible giving teams the ability to turn on delivery on a base of device hardware type Feb 13 22:26:50 lbt: streamlining MeeGo to be a target for vendors who want an OS base and a developer ecosystem sounds brilliant, btw. Exactly what Nokia wanted ;-) Feb 13 22:27:41 Jaffa: I know... I was talking to one of the internal architects last week and telling him I was writing this Feb 13 22:27:49 "about time" or similar Feb 13 22:28:29 i see the biggest trouble in compatibility of the UI consistency... Like Nokia doing this, Intel doing that, Nomovok doing something else,... Feb 13 22:28:35 jbos_bk: yes... you can support multiple targets from one src base if you like Feb 13 22:28:51 can or must? Feb 13 22:28:55 *nod* ... I don't seriously know what 'compliant' means Feb 13 22:28:58 can Feb 13 22:29:10 we have to be able to slice/dice Feb 13 22:29:26 so if you have peregrine-ivi peregrine-handheld Feb 13 22:30:25 yes. i as an application developer have the biggest doubt in creating an UI, for all meego devices, I fear that you need to make a new one for each and every Feb 13 22:30:58 well ivi of that vendor, ivi of the other vendor. Feb 13 22:31:02 yup... and please don't expect to have app-ui depend on app-lib Feb 13 22:31:06 since that's not compliant Feb 13 22:32:03 * lbt thinks that is insane (for opensource) ... hence Surrounds Feb 13 22:32:09 lbt: writing what? Feb 13 22:32:21 but it's also very very hard to make work.... Feb 13 22:32:29 sivang: ? Feb 13 22:32:30 yep. So what I say is, as app dev you need to be able to not only make the cut on ivi, handset or netbook Feb 13 22:33:29 but on much more granularity - on explicit device level, like Nokia Device 1, Intel Device XXXs, Intel Device YYYs,.... Feb 13 22:33:44 that is what I expected too Feb 13 22:33:45 lbt: trying to figure this up for community app development , reading the wiki page Feb 13 22:33:50 sook :) Feb 13 22:34:11 s/sook/ok Feb 13 22:34:40 so this will / might happening on base of a website? Feb 13 22:34:49 jbos_bk: but I feel that the 'compliance' people thought that would all magically be "taken care of" by being compliant (and maybe it would - I am too infra-oriented to comment) Feb 13 22:35:07 jbos_bk: well, clearly there is turmoil now Feb 13 22:35:16 but we were working on all of this Feb 13 22:35:36 recent Community Office meetings, nominations to TSG, App store dev is happening Feb 13 22:35:43 is there a need for device vendors to be compliant? Feb 13 22:35:53 to call it meego - i mean Feb 13 22:36:00 yes but Feb 13 22:36:14 you can have a compliant device Feb 13 22:36:21 with 'extra' Feb 13 22:36:32 but a compliant app can't rely on the 'extra' Feb 13 22:36:42 ok Feb 13 22:37:01 is there an official list of what is compliant, and what is extra? Feb 13 22:37:03 so typically vendor provides something to differentiate and you can't use it Feb 13 22:37:13 somewhere ... compliance spec Feb 13 22:37:20 iirc on maemo 5 the libqtmobility is extra Feb 13 22:37:27 which kind of sucks ;) Feb 13 22:37:41 hehe Feb 13 22:37:43 honestly this is possibly a bit in the air now Feb 13 22:38:29 the spec has been delayed many times Feb 13 22:38:39 But it's also a question of what "compliant" gives. Although, if MeeGo transitions to providing an ecosystem-in-a-box, application compliance becomes *more* important? Feb 13 22:38:50 where is help needed to make 10k of community apps for meego? :) Feb 13 22:39:06 sivang: Devices running MeeGo that devs want to use, with no better alternative. Feb 13 22:39:12 i expect that vendors might not want 'compliant' apps, but only there own store Feb 13 22:39:31 Jaffa: heh, okay :-) Feb 13 22:39:32 sivang: So, I won't write an app for MeeGo Netbook, cos I just use Ubuntu. But I will write an app for Maemo, cos an N900 is my best choice for a mobile phone. Feb 13 22:39:38 jbos_bk: some vendors probably yes, others probably no Feb 13 22:39:38 jbos_bk: yep Feb 13 22:40:03 mhm i actually think that is the point to start of. Feb 13 22:40:05 it depends if they want to go to that trouble Feb 13 22:40:17 jbos_bk: I suspect with where MeeGo wants to go, the fact that it can deliver x,000(,000) apps "out of the box" will be the attraction; allowing them to differentiate in the UI Feb 13 22:40:22 Nokia probably would extend Feb 13 22:40:40 vendors must feel a need to take the store in. Feb 13 22:40:46 jbos_bk: See the reasons Elop cites in the "Burning Platform" and elsewhere for what's needed to be a successful mobile developer Feb 13 22:41:00 jbos_bk: Who are these vendors? Feb 13 22:41:04 Jaffa: you however may write an app "for netbooks" that runs on both Ubuntu and MeeGo netbook Feb 13 22:41:07 yea :) Feb 13 22:41:09 Jaffa: if we have so many apps, device vendors will stack like Rolling Stones women groupies Feb 13 22:41:25 making a store is an investment, so some vendors probably prefer to use other's existing stores Feb 13 22:41:27 Jaffa: do you have a link ? Feb 13 22:41:48 Jaffa: what berndhs said, if we have the store infra already they just provide devices, install our software and we profit Feb 13 22:41:49 sivang: Erm, google "Burning Platform elop" and also "ecosystem elop" Feb 13 22:42:18 :) o/ Feb 13 22:42:28 sivang: Exactly. An ecosystem in a box is what Nokia wanted, with differentiation opportunities. It will be what all mobile computing (don't know about IVI) vendors want. Feb 13 22:42:38 sivang: And it makes economic sense. Feb 13 22:43:16 sivang: Elop's conclusion was that Nokia couldn't wait to have MeeGo be that ecosystem (despite the advantages), and so chose Windows Phone to be his pre-made ecosystem. Feb 13 22:43:48 Jaffa: agreed, I already agreed with that, but why is that stopping us from creating ecosystem infra now with lbt and friends? Feb 13 22:43:59 "If you build it, they will come" Feb 13 22:44:03 sivang: The value proposition of MeeGo *can* be: "You want to release a tablet, or a mobile phone, or a PDA? We've got the base of the OS for you, a development framework, a set of tools and a community of x,000(,000) apps ready to go" Feb 13 22:44:09 this is the bread and butter of any open source developer Feb 13 22:44:24 sivang: I didn't say it should stop us from creating that ecosystem now. Feb 13 22:44:29 Jaffa: okay, so we agree, sorry I was not follwoing :) Feb 13 22:44:31 sivang: agreed Feb 13 22:44:32 sivang: yes, but be realistic in your expectations Feb 13 22:44:48 lbt: define reality since I jsut went though a vortex on Israeli train Feb 13 22:45:02 coming to that point, really i wonder if its isn't a good thing that nokia took a step back Feb 13 22:45:02 sivang: But it requires accepting that MeeGo is a) not a linux distro; b) not targetted at end-users directly and c) has modest deliverables and a focus on meeting the vendors & developers requirements. Feb 13 22:45:06 will be the MeeGo 1.2 fully stable and usable public release? Feb 13 22:45:20 The developers' requirements are being met by COBS, Qt SDK etc. Feb 13 22:45:28 Vendors' requirements - less so. Feb 13 22:45:29 and if this is not in the end attracting other mobile vendors to take a look Feb 13 22:46:01 Jaffa: okay, so besides working with Stskeeps on a platform hacking guide as we restarted those efforts ince yesterday, what else can I do to help the app developers? Feb 13 22:46:03 jbos_bk: not really. Investment is needed. This looks like Nokia is 'droppping' MeeGo and will be used to demonstrate high risj Feb 13 22:46:06 k Feb 13 22:46:10 jbos_bk: It'll be a hard sell. Board of $MOBILE_VENDOR will ask, quite rightly, "why should we get onto the MeeGo train when Nokia, one of the co-founders of the project, has decided it's only suitable for R&D projects?" Feb 13 22:46:20 Jaffa: I want developers! develoeprs! developers! and ready to invest much effort into it. Feb 13 22:46:35 jbos_bk: That perception is the single biggest problem facing MeeGo in the next two months. Feb 13 22:46:44 sivang: mmm how many $million spare do you have? Feb 13 22:46:46 Some high profile shiny devices at MWC would help. Feb 13 22:47:11 sivang: The problem is that if MeeGo gets to that "ecosystem in a box" state, it'll do well. But getting there from here will be hard. Feb 13 22:47:12 lbt: I have quite a large debt and I was recently laid off my job due to being away too much time in meego related events :) Feb 13 22:47:20 http://news.morningstar.com/all/business-wire/20110210007063/renesas-mobile-and-nomovok-show-the-first-meego-implementation-on-renesas-mobile-application-processor-at-mobile-world-congress-2011.aspx Feb 13 22:47:22 Jaffa: Intel will have the shiny devices Feb 13 22:47:22 how certain are we that tehre are no other manucaturers working on products now ? Feb 13 22:47:26 Jaffa: also there's the WeTab already Feb 13 22:47:33 sivang: App developers won't develop unless it's for their own purposes or own profit Feb 13 22:47:45 sivang: well duh! Feb 13 22:47:47 Jaffa: meaning there must be a popular platform Feb 13 22:47:49 Venemo: Intel don't make consumer hardware. The WeTab is niche and will not be mass-market. Feb 13 22:47:52 yes, i think that there will be some on Meego's MWC Feb 13 22:47:59 sivang: Yup. Which Nokia was going to deliver :-/ Feb 13 22:48:15 then we must make the platform popular Feb 13 22:48:15 Jaffa: they don't make consumer hw right now, maybe. but they definitely have money to do so if they wanna Feb 13 22:48:19 how hard it can be? Feb 13 22:48:25 :D Feb 13 22:48:26 Venemo: And why would they want to? Feb 13 22:48:27 I mean, it will be very hard now Feb 13 22:48:31 but can't we do it? Feb 13 22:48:37 Battery dying. Feb 13 22:48:40 G'night! Feb 13 22:48:40 :D Feb 13 22:48:44 nigh Jaffa ! Feb 13 22:48:48 night Feb 13 22:48:53 night Jaffa .... catch me tomorrow Feb 13 22:49:03 Jaffa: because they want to make money? Feb 13 22:49:17 Venemo: Intel make money selling chips, chipsets & reference designs. Feb 13 22:49:33 Venemo: No need to make consumer hardware. Of course, you could say the same about Microsoft... Feb 13 22:49:36 yes. night sounds good here too. So I think we wont solve the trouble with the store, the ui and stuff just at once Feb 13 22:49:37 Feb 13 22:49:37 intel could subcontract a company to be a handset mfcter Feb 13 22:49:47 Jaffa: so what objections would they have against making money in other ways too? Feb 13 22:49:52 that is stuff which needs time Feb 13 22:50:02 Jaffa: anyway, they said they have something to show in MWC. let's wait for it. Feb 13 22:50:08 can't we appeal to the fact no roylaties are paid to use meego? Feb 13 22:50:10 I think Intel should buy Aava Mobile and start mass production Feb 13 22:50:17 valianholt: :) Feb 13 22:50:19 Intel would have to invest time and money to establish a consumer brand of some sort Feb 13 22:50:24 Venemo: Core competencies, not pissing off your customers, expertise, resources, ... Feb 13 22:50:24 valianholt: along this lines Feb 13 22:50:40 * lbt wanders off o/ Feb 13 22:50:42 Jaffa: there's lots of experience in this already, from maemo and meego Feb 13 22:50:50 Jaffa: "Intel make money selling chips, chipsets & reference designs" -> yet they also develop lots of software Feb 13 22:50:51 Jaffa: intel just has to tap into the community Feb 13 22:51:25 MeeGo + Aava mobile not just for devs, but mass product, will be true open handset Feb 13 22:51:30 Jaffa, sivang: anyway, what Intel and MeeGo needs is some hardware manufacturer actually making hardware for it, and also a great community Feb 13 22:51:32 same as openmoko is, but 10 times better Feb 13 22:51:56 Venemo: what is great community ? Feb 13 22:52:15 sivang: for example, see Maemo community. or the Fedora community Feb 13 22:52:31 Jaffa, sivang: if they (Intel or anyone) could promise a full MeeGo port for the N900 for example, they could get hold of the entire Maemo community Feb 13 22:52:50 great community is already here I think, but being pissed off from Nokia decision - see many blogposts from devs Feb 13 22:52:58 erm... that's being done Feb 13 22:53:03 yeah valianholt, and I agree Feb 13 22:53:04 the N900 reference port Feb 13 22:53:18 and the pulling of Fremantle to the MeeGo OBS Feb 13 22:53:23 http://events.nokia.com/mwc/home.htm, nokia and intel are still there ? ah bad it is 2010 Feb 13 22:53:31 * sivang needs to sleep Feb 13 22:53:33 how big is the Maemo community ? are there enough of them to call it mass-market ? Feb 13 22:53:34 lbt: "reference port": afaik that's nowhere near working. Feb 13 22:53:42 http://kgronholm.blogspot.com/2010/11/meego-conference-steelrat.html Feb 13 22:53:47 berndhs: no, but it's a start. Feb 13 22:54:02 berndhs: no, not at all Feb 13 22:54:14 I think many Maemo guys moved to MeeGo, some migrated to QT, some are still developing in GTK+ Feb 13 22:54:20 lbt: I can personally walk into freescale offices and talk to them, it is quite close :-) Feb 13 22:54:38 Venemo: http://valtterihalla.net/ Feb 13 22:54:51 so slick Feb 13 22:55:04 oky hey guys I need to find some sleep here too, I looking in here tomorrow and will have some ideas regarding a OBS Teamspace. - I think there are just 2 things for which this is for a) allow teams to provide more public a meego build with there own project in it, and b) to show others that 'they' are around. Feb 13 22:55:05 he posted about the comparative investment Feb 13 22:55:26 jbos_bk: yep ... objectives sound good Feb 13 22:55:35 everything else can be solved later on Feb 13 22:55:43 grab some bullet point policy from my posts too Feb 13 22:56:17 lbt: nice article Feb 13 22:56:30 is there any way how can I contribute to MeeGo project? testing the OS, but rather in QEMU than on my N900 Feb 13 22:56:50 valianholt: plenty, yes Feb 13 22:56:50 I am quite good in finding bugs and reporting them (previous experience) Feb 13 22:56:54 cool Feb 13 22:57:25 but no programming knowledge, only deep unix knowledge Feb 13 22:58:18 lbt: he speaks wisely and I agree. this is a wakeup call Feb 13 22:58:18 valianholt: you can set up a MeeGo chroot and file bug reports, do testing, etc Feb 13 22:58:23 valianholt: check the wiki Feb 13 22:58:39 valianholt: you can aos get a uSD and test using it, I am just preapring myself one Feb 13 22:58:39 cool thx Feb 13 22:58:50 hey, so have no time now. but are you aware that mxr.meego.com is down? Feb 13 22:59:01 uSD? Feb 13 22:59:11 valianholt: micro sd card Feb 13 22:59:23 valianholt: that you can add to your N900 computer Feb 13 22:59:30 jbos_bk: yeah the guy hosting it had a tantrum :( Feb 13 22:59:39 https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11422 Feb 13 22:59:42 Bug 11422 is not accessible Feb 13 22:59:52 lbt: you make me use urban dict for that world Feb 13 22:59:54 *word Feb 13 23:00:02 seems good, so I can simply put into my Maemo 5 chroot and test directly on N900 Feb 13 23:00:12 You are not authorized to access bug #11422. Feb 13 23:00:16 balls Feb 13 23:00:20 with easy of ssh connection from my laptop Feb 13 23:00:26 ease * Feb 13 23:01:12 because I thought MeeGo needs more UI testong as well Feb 13 23:01:23 seems not Feb 13 23:01:52 valianholt: they say that the preferred environment is Fedora, but I guess it should work in any other distro Feb 13 23:01:56 valianholt: micro sd card ?? Feb 13 23:02:07 hrm Feb 13 23:02:14 something odd is happeing here Feb 13 23:02:20 sivang: ? Feb 13 23:02:26 jbos_bk: can you see #11422 now? Feb 13 23:03:13 sivang: you mean MicroSD has to be tested in MeeGo env? Feb 13 23:04:30 valianholt: sorry no, I need to change my freenode password it seems :) Feb 13 23:04:31 valianholt: no, he means that you can install MeeGo on a MicroSD card and test it on your N900 Feb 13 23:04:43 Venemo: yes, what Venemo said Feb 13 23:04:50 sivang: Venemo: ah this, I will follow wiki for sure Feb 13 23:05:00 what does http://mxr.meego.com show for people ? Feb 13 23:05:02 valianholt: it is very cool that way since you can "dual boot" without harm Feb 13 23:05:13 valianholt: but make sure you read everything thoroughly Feb 13 23:05:18 sivang: ok thx Feb 13 23:05:20 lbt: microsoft phone Feb 13 23:05:29 sivang: ta Feb 13 23:05:34 lbt: what the fuck? it redirects to M$ site Feb 13 23:05:37 lbt: which I was still amazed a few minutes ago Feb 13 23:06:00 this is what happens when you get dipshit "community" people throwing a tantrum after you trust them to help you out Feb 13 23:06:09 jebba in this case Feb 13 23:06:16 sivang: an off topic question, is the N900 still manufactured? my friend was interested because it is not anymore available in our local shops and it's not available on Nokia sites as well Feb 13 23:06:26 lbt: what happened? Feb 13 23:06:35 valianholt: noone knows Feb 13 23:06:35 see https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11422 Feb 13 23:06:37 Bug 11422 nor, Undecided, ---, michael.r.shaver, ASSI, allocate vm at OSU for mxr.meego.com Feb 13 23:06:45 valianholt: I wish I knew :/ Feb 13 23:06:48 valianholt: have no idea Feb 13 23:06:54 valianholt: but it does not matter at all to us Feb 13 23:07:00 apparently I didn't get my finger out quickly enough for him Feb 13 23:07:05 valianholt: anyway, it seems that N900s will be rare things soon, as there're many people wo like them Feb 13 23:07:06 :( I should possibly get another one - spare Feb 13 23:07:07 lbt: it says I should download IE8, DirectX and Office 2010, none of which work on mac Feb 13 23:07:13 jebba, i recall the name from maemo Feb 13 23:07:25 valianholt: you should get one from ebay for a fairly low price though Feb 13 23:07:27 although hasn't seen this nick in a while Feb 13 23:07:33 valianholt: what Venemo said :) Feb 13 23:07:50 valianholt: where are you from? Feb 13 23:07:55 lbt: is someone about to have their rights revolked? Feb 13 23:08:03 actually it has been from our local shop in Czech republic for like $420 Feb 13 23:08:08 very cheap Feb 13 23:08:22 CosmoHill: yep Feb 13 23:08:26 new, 2 years warranty Feb 13 23:08:33 unlike US 1 year Feb 13 23:09:30 tbh I'm pretty indifferent to nokia and microsoft at the moment Feb 13 23:09:49 http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=92799 Feb 13 23:09:54 what this this give you guys? Feb 13 23:10:00 it brings me to go-mono Feb 13 23:10:23 sivang: no, you must of clicked on the "install silverlight" thing in the corner Feb 13 23:10:28 people are scared of mono dev Feb 13 23:10:29 I did Feb 13 23:10:44 because it could potentially turn Feb 13 23:10:53 sivang: ah, mine tried to start downloading Feb 13 23:11:06 hmm, why N900 chroot install instructions contain ext3 FS creation instead of btrfs? Feb 13 23:11:20 shouldn't be MeeGo tested on btrfs? Feb 13 23:11:26 I'm off to bed, finally Feb 13 23:11:30 cheers all Feb 13 23:11:31 btrfs is new. -- give it a while Feb 13 23:11:37 also btrfs is kinda, a server thing Feb 13 23:11:56 a lot of functions are lost on a mobile device Feb 13 23:12:07 performance is also still better on btrfs Feb 13 23:12:11 valianholt: not necessarily. Feb 13 23:12:26 valianholt: the n900 stock kernel won't be able to read it either way.... Feb 13 23:12:29 still not better* Feb 13 23:12:32 on btrfs Feb 13 23:12:33 sorry Feb 13 23:12:33 I see Feb 13 23:14:29 thx for info & talk, good night Feb 13 23:14:56 goodnight sir Feb 13 23:14:59 o/ Feb 13 23:16:55 If its an mtd I thought you would ubifs Feb 13 23:18:51 dotblank: got any information on ubifs Feb 13 23:19:56 ? Feb 13 23:22:05 I mean what about it? Feb 13 23:22:21 its been in the linux kernel for awhile now Feb 13 23:23:55 doing some research into filesystems before Feb 13 23:24:02 I've not come across it. Feb 13 23:24:08 I just mean broad information Feb 13 23:24:21 well the object of most flash based fs is trying to reduce reads/writes Feb 13 23:24:24 like, features, benchmarks. and how it treats disks Feb 13 23:24:37 but nilfs does that perfectly Feb 13 23:27:17 from what I can tell nilfs is ment to be used on regular disks Feb 13 23:27:40 ubifs is meant for large NAND flash Feb 13 23:29:34 you're not using ubifs on the n900 for anything other than the 256MiB rootfs. Feb 13 23:30:00 ubi works over the mtd layer, while mmc/sd are block devices. Feb 13 23:30:04 lbt: ping Feb 13 23:37:50 it's to late at night for me to work out how to remap a fish eye image into a rectangular image Feb 14 00:07:59 goodnight Feb 14 00:28:07 anyone here have a compile setup that can compile ofono (and specifically test-sms.c)? Feb 14 00:28:33 I am looking to replace the test Cell Broadcast message in that file with one of my own and run it so that I can see what it decodes to Feb 14 00:28:43 but I dont have a working compile setup for ofono Feb 14 00:47:41 hi! I wanted to test meego touch, I could get the source and build it Feb 14 00:47:59 I think the source is public Feb 14 00:48:02 however, I have an error running the demo app widgesgallery Feb 14 00:48:05 check gitorious Feb 14 00:48:25 Dijit, yes, I did clone the repo and compiled it :) Feb 14 00:48:33 ok Feb 14 00:48:45 what's the error? Feb 14 00:48:45 I also installed the theme Feb 14 00:48:55 I think it's all working Feb 14 00:49:12 and I got the app running, but all I see is a black window with the following error: Feb 14 00:49:16 hm Feb 14 00:49:24 MRemoteThemeDaemon: Failed to connect to theme daemon (IPC) Feb 14 00:49:25 MThemeDaemon: Could not activate the theme: "base" Feb 14 00:49:40 ok Feb 14 00:49:51 and then tons of errors, I guess they all are because the theme is missing Feb 14 00:50:03 sounds like it Feb 14 00:50:13 I actually had a problem installing the theme... meegotouch installed in /usr/local Feb 14 00:50:28 but meegotouch-theme in /usr/share (no local) Feb 14 00:50:37 y then manually moved the files... Feb 14 00:53:25 hmm Feb 14 00:53:34 I'm not a developer, but Feb 14 00:53:42 can you try reinstalling? Feb 14 00:53:45 (the theme Feb 14 00:53:48 )* Feb 14 00:54:44 yes, I did Feb 14 00:56:04 Ok, I found that I have to ran the ./mthemedaemon Feb 14 00:56:20 but now I have a new error :) Feb 14 00:59:13 I works!!! Feb 14 00:59:17 thanks :) Feb 14 00:59:29 not sure what I did Feb 14 00:59:34 but no problem xD Feb 14 01:06:40 the problem was that I have to manually run the theme server, and have the themes installed in usr/local, but the themes install in src Feb 14 01:06:47 usr, not src sorry Feb 14 01:29:24 hi Feb 14 01:29:25 i heard that abc_ has cancer and is terminal Feb 14 01:42:16 what is up about meego today? Feb 14 01:57:02 MichaelWang: nothing really Feb 14 01:59:00 Dijit: How about those companies who tend to get meego projects from Nokia? They will get nothing to do about meego right? Feb 14 02:00:03 hm Feb 14 02:00:18 Meego will live on no matter what happens Feb 14 02:00:28 it has corporate backing other than nokia Feb 14 02:00:50 some companies are invested so much in meego's success.. that they will actively develop it, if nokia drops it, Feb 14 02:03:42 thought they alreaady did Feb 14 02:04:17 or did they just cancel the hardware at this point Feb 14 02:05:13 they've not stopped anything Feb 14 02:05:25 so far it's all media hype Feb 14 02:06:35 hmmm Feb 14 02:07:09 the developers are worried of course Feb 14 02:07:17 everyone is worried Feb 14 02:07:42 ok Feb 14 02:09:01 *nods* Everybody who didn't actually watch the briefings are worried and flailing all over the place, and those who saw the very large lump of R&D budget with the word "MeeGo" on it are more... shall we say sensible about the whole thing :) Feb 14 02:09:38 Oh yeah, and of course there's all the "ohnoes, nokia am teh sux!11eleventyone" who have been all negative for ages anyway, and just bringing this one along for the ride :) Feb 14 02:09:54 If it wasn't so sad, it's be kind of fun to watch all the flailing :) Feb 14 02:10:00 haha Feb 14 02:10:06 honestly, meego will live on. Feb 14 02:10:14 it's not a nokia thing anymore Feb 14 02:10:27 they have almost no control over it now. Feb 14 02:10:30 its seperate i know that Feb 14 02:10:34 either they can make money on it.. Feb 14 02:10:45 It never was a Nokia thing - the press thinks so, because they're incapable of understanding the whole cooperative effort thing of open source projects like this, but... yeah :) Feb 14 02:10:48 or go with that other compaany Feb 14 02:10:49 or they can try and drop it, and lose all they stuck in. Feb 14 02:10:56 The only thing Nokia are now not doing is actively productifying it :) Feb 14 02:11:22 but seriously, Nokia wouldn't be going into an insane chancey deal like this wp7 thing without an out... and meego is that out :) Feb 14 02:11:45 * lofty306 *grins* Feb 14 02:12:00 or the CEO realy is nuts Feb 14 02:12:26 haha Feb 14 02:12:29 he knows business Feb 14 02:12:39 that's what a CEO should know Feb 14 02:12:46 open source is for us nerds xD Feb 14 02:12:58 yep Feb 14 02:13:06 *nods* Also a point - he couldn't do this sort of thing without support form the board :) Feb 14 02:13:08 they can't comprehend it, just like we can't really comprehend business strategy Feb 14 02:13:11 As in /big/ support from them Feb 14 02:13:53 cyas Feb 14 02:14:13 ive been scramblling to find other devices in the us to play with Feb 14 02:19:52 I've not played with meego. Feb 14 02:24:10 ? Feb 14 02:24:44 i have a bit **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Feb 14 02:59:57 2011