**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Mar 09 02:59:57 2011
Mar 09 03:21:25 <berndhs> good night
Mar 09 03:21:50 <djszapi> moin
Mar 09 04:10:24 <TSCHAKeee> i notice that matchbox-keyboard in meego is being built without GTK+ IM support
Mar 09 04:10:39 * TSCHAKeee is making a version of the package that can do this.
Mar 09 04:10:43 <TSCHAKeee> very odd because
Mar 09 04:10:53 <TSCHAKeee> it would actually MAKE NetBook UX USABLE on tablets.
Mar 09 04:49:21 <Termana> morning
Mar 09 04:49:29 <xiambax> Its 9pm :D
Mar 09 04:51:11 <Termana> xiambax:
Mar 09 04:51:13 <Termana> ~ugt
Mar 09 04:51:14 <infobot> i heard ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
Mar 09 04:51:45 <xiambax> Wow. Ive been using irc for 14 years and i have never heard that before.
Mar 09 04:51:52 <xiambax> On the other hand. I know what an OGT is
Mar 09 04:51:54 <Bostik> good `timeofday()`
Mar 09 04:51:54 <Termana> it's not morning here either, but I still say good morning
Mar 09 04:51:56 <xiambax> ~ogt
Mar 09 04:52:11 <xiambax> Meh
Mar 09 04:52:20 <xiambax> So Im doing some research on the Viewpad 10.
Mar 09 04:52:32 <xiambax> Seems like a good buy if I can get Alpha to run on it
Mar 09 04:52:42 <xiambax> and the touch screen sensitivity working properly
Mar 09 04:52:47 <xiambax> Thoughts?
Mar 09 04:52:49 <Termana> OGT == Official Game Time? This is no game son, I am disappoint.
Mar 09 04:53:26 <timoph> no. it's 6.50am :)
Mar 09 04:53:27 <xiambax> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=OGT
Mar 09 04:53:52 <xiambax> The tool reference
Mar 09 04:54:09 <xiambax> Anyway.
Mar 09 04:54:13 <xiambax> Back to the view tab.
Mar 09 04:55:40 <Termana> Didn't you really answer your own question if you've done the research?
Mar 09 04:55:55 <Termana> :p
Mar 09 04:56:00 <xiambax> To be honest the whole tablet market overwhelms me
Mar 09 04:56:03 <xiambax> I have so many options
Mar 09 04:56:19 <xiambax> I just need someone to reaffirm my research and suggest alternatives
Mar 09 04:56:29 <xiambax> and/or suggest alternatives
Mar 09 04:56:35 <Termana> Try tampons instead
Mar 09 04:56:44 <xiambax> facepalm
Mar 09 04:58:17 <Termana> I'm kidding :p Anyway, mostly your choice is between the iPad, the Samsung Galaxy S Tab, the Motorola Xoom and any x86 tablet/netbook that flips around.
Mar 09 04:58:39 <xiambax> I was thinking ExoPC or Viewpad
Mar 09 04:58:44 <xiambax> Cause I could install my own os
Mar 09 04:58:54 <xiambax> You can't install third party os's on galaxy S can you
Mar 09 04:59:29 <raster> you can
Mar 09 04:59:31 <raster> if u root it
Mar 09 04:59:34 <Termana> I think you probably could run MeeGo on it
Mar 09 04:59:40 <raster> someone started a meego port somewhere
Mar 09 04:59:48 <xiambax> via vac or baremetal?
Mar 09 04:59:49 <raster> they have it bnooting to a console
Mar 09 05:00:08 <raster> i think its baremetal
Mar 09 05:00:21 <raster> good luck in getting opengl drivers working
Mar 09 05:00:22 <raster> :)
Mar 09 05:00:36 <raster> which means experience will be middle to poor until they do
Mar 09 05:00:41 <raster> and that'll pretty much not happen
Mar 09 05:00:48 <Termana> raster, It would help if Samsung released some drivers that would work properly with MeeGo
Mar 09 05:00:53 <Termana> *hint* *hint*
Mar 09 05:01:00 <raster> bwahahahahahah
Mar 09 05:01:52 <xiambax> yeah its all virtualized with vnc
Mar 09 05:02:27 <Termana> xiambax, Anyway, it seems like there might be a bit of a community around the ViewPad vs the ExoPC from a quick search.
Mar 09 05:02:34 <Termana> bit more*
Mar 09 05:02:39 <raster> xiambax: not the port i read up on
Mar 09 05:02:45 <raster> actual booting real kernel
Mar 09 05:02:50 <raster> and up to console
Mar 09 05:03:07 <raster> noone of that hack vnc+chroot et al. stuff
Mar 09 05:03:14 <raster> but its only up to console
Mar 09 05:03:14 <Termana> When you have a community chucking everything they can on something, it's probably a good buy to be able to use niche OSes
Mar 09 05:03:20 <raster> good luck in getting all the rest to work
Mar 09 05:03:24 <raster> will be a fair bit of work
Mar 09 05:03:26 <Termana> s/niche/small market
Mar 09 05:04:42 <xiambax> the view pad 10 seems to have better specs
Mar 09 05:08:41 <raster> if u want a tablet to put meego on i'd suggest an atom one
Mar 09 05:08:45 <raster> going to be easier
Mar 09 05:12:46 <raster> beware... you'd need to worry abotu drivers then for touch panel and other components - may be easy, work out of the box, or not work at all and mean you need to write some code
Mar 09 05:15:28 <araujo> raster, j0
Mar 09 05:30:12 <raster> araujo: moo
Mar 09 05:34:15 <xiambax> it is atom
Mar 09 05:34:16 <xiambax> http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=42503
Mar 09 05:34:27 <raster> yes
Mar 09 05:34:40 <raster> but what about wifi, touchscreen, etc. etc.
Mar 09 05:34:42 <raster> :)
Mar 09 05:35:50 <raster> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1654388
Mar 09 05:35:51 <raster> for example
Mar 09 05:35:57 <raster> ppl having no end of problems
Mar 09 05:36:03 <raster> getting touch to work
Mar 09 05:36:29 <raster> http://ollie-reardon.co.cc/?p=182
Mar 09 05:36:36 <raster> ]and there someone has a howto
Mar 09 05:36:36 <raster> :)
Mar 09 05:37:30 <iekku> good morning
Mar 09 06:01:19 <RST38h> moo all
Mar 09 06:01:39 <Stskeeps> moo
Mar 09 06:02:43 <raster> moo2!
Mar 09 06:03:07 <RST38h> Any...mhm...more news today? =)
Mar 09 06:05:01 <Stskeeps> well, nokia's waking up regarding meego (finally) it seems, statements by peter schneider
Mar 09 06:05:05 <Stskeeps> but besides that, no
Mar 09 06:05:35 <RST38h> Innnnteresting =) URL?
Mar 09 06:06:28 <TSCHAKeee> muuahahahha
Mar 09 06:06:32 <TSCHAKeee> success
Mar 09 06:06:57 <Stskeeps> http://meego.com/community/blogs/petermeego/2011/nokia-appoints-new-head-meego-efforts , http://twitter.com/PeterMeeGo
Mar 09 06:07:16 * TSCHAKeee rebuilt matchbox-keyboard with the required gtk im bridge and it works yay
Mar 09 06:08:09 <Stskeeps> TSCHAKeee: the good thing about old-school mobile linux software is that it's been beaten so much in various distros and cross build tools that it usually does what it's supposed to when you tinker with something :P
Mar 09 06:08:36 <TSCHAKeee> Stskeeps: well, i really wanted to use the meegotouch keyboard
Mar 09 06:08:43 <TSCHAKeee> problem is,.. i have yet to actually see it work properly
Mar 09 06:08:47 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Nah, this does not sound like waking up, more like "release the Harmattan thingie, then see what to do next", i.e. no changes
Mar 09 06:09:02 <TSCHAKeee> Stskeeps: and the carrick network applet is gtk/mx so it made more sense to use matchbox.
Mar 09 06:09:16 <Stskeeps> TSCHAKeee: right
Mar 09 06:09:40 <TSCHAKeee> i really want to know, is all of handset going to be retooled?
Mar 09 06:09:46 <TSCHAKeee> to use Qt Quick instead of MTF?
Mar 09 06:10:18 <RST38h> TSCHAK: most likely yes.
Mar 09 06:10:30 <Stskeeps> TSCHAKeee: so, what i think will happen is that many things will be replaced with tablet UX stuff, which is qml + intel's qml components
Mar 09 06:10:52 <RST38h> TSCHAK: Isn't QtQuick not the same thing though?
Mar 09 06:10:57 <Stskeeps> of course this is not open yet.
Mar 09 06:11:06 <TSCHAKeee> it will be very nice
Mar 09 06:11:10 <TSCHAKeee> and when that happens
Mar 09 06:11:15 <TSCHAKeee> i will FINALLY start work on the new orbiter
Mar 09 06:11:18 <RST38h> Sorry, Stskeeps: isn't QtQ the same as QML+ components?
Mar 09 06:12:14 <TSCHAKeee> all in all though, i am glad I was able to build an orbiter stack atop meego core
Mar 09 06:12:22 <Stskeeps> RST38h: there's some definition of qt quick, but i can't recall it just yet :P
Mar 09 06:13:29 <RST38h> Stskeeps: afaik that is it :)
Mar 09 06:13:39 <RST38h> Stskeeps: + a bit of javascript for elementary interactions
Mar 09 06:15:54 <michaelg|nok> qtq = qml + qtdeclarative etc. components is extra
Mar 09 06:16:36 <RST38h> Isn't qtd the same as qml?
Mar 09 06:16:59 * RST38h is lost now
Mar 09 06:17:15 <michaelg|nok> well.. qml is the language, qtd is the C++ api
Mar 09 06:17:15 <djszapi> Stskeeps: do  you have any idea about the repository issue ?
Mar 09 06:17:26 <Stskeeps> djszapi: sorry didn
Mar 09 06:17:29 <Stskeeps> ''t read my backlog yet
Mar 09 06:18:07 <djszapi> the problem is shortly that I cannot use zypper on the gadget in order to install packages using the network connection of the host PC.
Mar 09 06:19:11 <Stskeeps> djszapi: do you have set up iptables NAT on the host PC?
Mar 09 06:19:31 <djszapi> at least I did the same as with fremantle and that works
Mar 09 06:19:49 <djszapi> iptables -A POSTROUTING -t nat -s 192.168.2.15/32 -j MASQUERADE && echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward
Mar 09 06:19:58 <Stskeeps> ok, that's what i was hinting on
Mar 09 06:20:01 <Stskeeps> you said ping works?
Mar 09 06:20:06 <Stskeeps> to www.google.com
Mar 09 06:20:09 <djszapi> fex. I could ping the google site, so it is clearly zypper repository issue
Mar 09 06:20:18 <Stskeeps> ok
Mar 09 06:20:31 <Stskeeps> what error do you get?
Mar 09 06:20:41 <Stskeeps> or it just stalls
Mar 09 06:20:48 <djszapi> http://paste.kde.org/6830/
Mar 09 06:20:59 <RST38h> michaelg: Same thing then, as one is useless without another
Mar 09 06:21:03 <Stskeeps> does ping repo.pub.meego.com work?
Mar 09 06:21:27 <RST38h> Although I guess you can run limited scope QML-only apps in a player
Mar 09 06:21:35 <djszapi> iirc name resolution issue with ping, too.
Mar 09 06:21:46 <Stskeeps> djszapi: ok, what's in your /etc/resolv.conf ?
Mar 09 06:21:53 <Stskeeps> djszapi: this file gets reset at every boot
Mar 09 06:22:56 <djszapi> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking -> what this page writes.
Mar 09 06:23:19 <Stskeeps> i mean /etc/resolv.conf on n900 side
Mar 09 06:23:24 <djszapi> yes
Mar 09 06:23:36 <Stskeeps> ok, try to remove the 127.0.0.1 line
Mar 09 06:23:59 <Stskeeps> i just use nameserver 8.8.8.8 personally
Mar 09 06:24:03 <timoph> chattr +i might help
Mar 09 06:24:37 <thiago_home> connman is the DNS server
Mar 09 06:24:56 <Stskeeps> thiago_home: yeah, but because connman ignorantly refuses to deal with usb gadgets, we can't use that :P
Mar 09 06:25:29 <Stskeeps> as it assumes there's no connection alive and doesn't pass it on
Mar 09 06:28:56 <djszapi> Stskeeps: seems it works now
Mar 09 06:29:30 <Stskeeps> djszapi: o
Mar 09 06:29:30 <Stskeeps> k
Mar 09 06:30:02 <djszapi> 08:20 < Stskeeps> djszapi: this file gets reset at every boot -> will it keep this 8.8.8.8 then or should I add it manually all the time ?
Mar 09 06:31:23 <Stskeeps> djszapi: won't keep it, because connman will overwrite it each time
Mar 09 06:31:34 <djszapi> my application just crashes out of my code (according to the backtrace): https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14286
Mar 09 06:31:37 <_MeeeGoBot_> Bug 14286 nor, Undecided, 1.0.90.4, ulf.hofemeier, NEW, Crash with a simple Qt application
Mar 09 06:32:11 <Stskeeps> djszapi: ah, the fantastic mtf qt style..
Mar 09 06:32:24 <djszapi> ? :)
Mar 09 06:32:32 <Stskeeps> djszapi: 1) are you running as user meego? 2) are you export DISPLAY=:0?
Mar 09 06:32:36 <Stskeeps> just have to verify that first
Mar 09 06:32:48 <djszapi> 1) no, but root 2) yes.
Mar 09 06:33:20 <Stskeeps> ok, X server won't accept your X app as root
Mar 09 06:33:22 <Stskeeps> su meego
Mar 09 06:33:57 <djszapi> my qml app launches just fine tho. with root.
Mar 09 06:34:08 <djszapi> and it is a binary with qml resource files.
Mar 09 06:34:51 <timoph> djszapi: huh? AFAIK that's not supposed to work
Mar 09 06:35:05 <Stskeeps> djszapi: do you log in as meego first or as root?
Mar 09 06:35:08 <Stskeeps> with ssh
Mar 09 06:35:19 <djszapi> root
Mar 09 06:35:23 <Stskeeps> odd
Mar 09 06:35:28 <djszapi> I am always root everywhere apart from the xhost +
Mar 09 06:35:28 <Stskeeps> that's not supposed to work ;)
Mar 09 06:35:32 <Stskeeps> ah, ok
Mar 09 06:35:39 <thiago_home> use the non-root user
Mar 09 06:35:40 <Stskeeps> that was the missing piece of the puzzle
Mar 09 06:36:00 <djszapi> well, it is odd I cannot run an application as root...
Mar 09 06:36:25 <timoph> not really. IMO root is not supposed to run GUI apps
Mar 09 06:36:35 <thiago_home> there are many reasons why this could happen
Mar 09 06:36:37 <Stskeeps> djszapi: does the crash still happen if you run as 'meego'? if yes, then rm the file named something-meego-something in /usr/lib/qt4/plugins/styles/
Mar 09 06:36:43 <Stskeeps> djszapi: and then try again
Mar 09 06:36:49 <thiago_home> one is that the D-Bus server doesn't allow you to connect and this is the most likely issue
Mar 09 06:37:12 <thiago_home> other reasons might be that the style requires some shared files found in the user's home dir, so having a different $HOME causes it not to find them
Mar 09 06:38:11 <djszapi> well, segfault as 'meego' user, too.
Mar 09 06:38:32 <Stskeeps> ok then, try rm'ing the file i mentioned
Mar 09 06:38:42 <thiago_home> can you post the debugging-enabled backtrace?
Mar 09 06:39:00 <Stskeeps> or better yet, mv'ing it somewhere else
Mar 09 06:39:20 <djszapi> well the backtrace is the same
Mar 09 06:39:34 <thiago_home> valgrind trace would also help
Mar 09 06:39:39 <djszapi> Stskeeps: there is just one file there: rm /usr/lib/qt4/plugins/styles/libmeegotouchqtstyleplugin.so
Mar 09 06:39:47 <Stskeeps> djszapi: ok, mv this to /root
Mar 09 06:39:49 <djszapi> thiago_home I do not have more space to install valgrind
Mar 09 06:39:59 <Stskeeps> djszapi: and try again
Mar 09 06:40:01 <djszapi> right now.
Mar 09 06:40:09 <thiago_home> the more information you give, the more likely it is to get the bug fixed
Mar 09 06:40:32 <djszapi> sure, but as said I do not have time now to be sysadmin on my system and free up spaces.
Mar 09 06:40:36 <djszapi> I can do it tonight, but not now
Mar 09 06:42:33 <djszapi> Stskeeps: seems it works afterwords, even with root.
Mar 09 06:43:17 <Stskeeps> djszapi: ok, then the bug is probably in meegotouchqtstyleplugin, when you have time, file a bug with a proper backtrace
Mar 09 06:44:08 <djszapi> well, I sent the backtrace for the segfault, what else should I send ?
Mar 09 06:44:21 <thiago_home> the backtrace containing debug symbols
Mar 09 06:44:29 <djszapi> ok
Mar 09 06:44:35 <Stskeeps> djszapi: you may need to install libmeegotouch-debuginfo
Mar 09 06:44:35 <thiago_home> why are you using 1.0.90?
Mar 09 06:44:52 <djszapi> thiago_home: that was the newest image last week.
Mar 09 06:45:02 <Stskeeps> 1.0.90? you mean 1.1.90 surely :)
Mar 09 06:45:20 <djszapi> yes
Mar 09 06:45:31 <thiago_home> please include the package versions too, since you're using a snapshot release
Mar 09 06:45:33 <Stskeeps> djszapi: also, add what exact image you used in the bug report and hardware it happened on
Mar 09 06:45:44 <djszapi> hardware is added
Mar 09 06:46:02 <Stskeeps> ok
Mar 09 06:46:39 <djszapi> yeah, I was quite lame with the version...
Mar 09 06:46:42 <djszapi> :p
Mar 09 06:56:58 <Tm_T> it's not thursday
Mar 09 07:01:10 <thiago_home> right, so it's not yellow day
Mar 09 07:35:29 <timeless_w7ip> grr
Mar 09 07:35:39 <timeless_w7ip> so, are there any rules about bashisms in .spec files?
Mar 09 07:36:01 <Stskeeps>  /bin/sh is stated to be bash in meego, for some reason
Mar 09 07:36:34 <timeless_w7ip> grr
Mar 09 07:36:42 <timeless_w7ip> to enable bashisms i take it?
Mar 09 07:37:03 <timeless_w7ip> bashisms are a reason that at least one of the meego rpm files failed to index on mxr
Mar 09 07:38:40 <mikhas> just install bash then
Mar 09 07:39:00 <timeless_w7ip> mikhas: um, there's a difference between having bash <installed> and having bash = /bin/sh
Mar 09 07:39:07 <timeless_w7ip> imagine i'm not root (and i'm not)
Mar 09 07:39:43 <timeless_w7ip> making me screw up all scripts globally just so a couple of poorly implemented things can assume /bin/sh = /bin/bash is not nice
Mar 09 07:39:56 <timeless_w7ip> (especially since i can't do that, not being root and all)
Mar 09 07:41:30 * timeless_w7ip wonders if __sh exists and can be used to ask rpmbuild to use a diferent shell
Mar 09 07:44:13 <timeless_w7ip> ___build_shell looks promising
Mar 09 07:51:22 <timeless_w7ip> stskeeps: ok, so...
Mar 09 07:51:46 <timeless_w7ip> for some reason rpmbuild of a linux kernel package has decided it would be a good idea to run some interactive form of the kernel configurator
Mar 09 07:52:12 <timeless_w7ip> any idea how one could prevent rpm scripts from accidentally triggering stuff which tries to read from stdin ?
Mar 09 07:52:47 <ali1234> yes | rpmbuild ...
Mar 09 07:53:13 <ali1234> but seriously
Mar 09 07:53:30 <ali1234> when the kernel does that it usually means one of two things:
Mar 09 07:53:47 <ali1234> either ARCH isn't set properly or your .config is out of date
Mar 09 07:54:11 <timeless_w7ip> well, i was hoping it wasn't going to do whatever this configure step is
Mar 09 07:54:19 <timeless_w7ip> since that belongs in %build not %prep
Mar 09 07:54:45 <ali1234> what is it trying to do?
Mar 09 07:54:49 <timeless_w7ip> hold on
Mar 09 07:56:56 <timeless_w7ip> http://mxr.meego.com/rpmbuild-kernel-err.txt
Mar 09 07:57:27 <timeless_w7ip> the last line 'error in reading' is because i sent a ^D through to the rpmbuild script
Mar 09 07:57:59 <ali1234> ah ok
Mar 09 07:58:10 <ali1234> make ARCH=x86 oldconfig
Mar 09 07:58:38 <ali1234> this is the command to update an old .config, and it will go interactive if the config is old
Mar 09 07:58:49 <ali1234> i have no idea why that is in a spec file
Mar 09 07:59:00 <timeless_w7ip> to piss me off?
Mar 09 07:59:17 <timeless_w7ip> # We want to run the config checks of all configurations for all architectures always.rn# That way, developers immediately found out if they forget to enable not-their-nativern# architecture. It's cheap to run anyway.
Mar 09 07:59:32 <timeless_w7ip> cheap my ass
Mar 09 08:00:22 <ali1234> ah
Mar 09 08:00:39 <ali1234> also, why is it grepping for CONFIG_ARM?
Mar 09 08:00:50 <timeless_w7ip> hold on
Mar 09 08:01:20 <timeless_w7ip> http://mxr.meego.com/kernel.spec
Mar 09 08:01:43 <timeless_w7ip> basically it's testing each config file
Mar 09 08:01:50 <ali1234> yeah
Mar 09 08:02:14 <timeless_w7ip> i think i claim this belongs in %build
Mar 09 08:02:27 <ali1234> if you take a .config for arm and attempt to run make oldconfig with ARCH=x86, that is pretty much guaranteed to go interactive since arm has a bunch of config options that x86 doesn't
Mar 09 08:02:49 <timeless_w7ip> i don't think it's doing that here though
Mar 09 08:03:11 <timeless_w7ip> it's trying to pick the ARCH= based on which arch the .config has
Mar 09 08:03:44 <ali1234> yeah
Mar 09 08:03:52 <ali1234> maybe you found an actual bug in that mechanism
Mar 09 08:04:23 * timeless_w7ip wonders how to figure out where in its state machine this thing is
Mar 09 08:04:38 <ali1234> which thing?
Mar 09 08:05:41 <timeless_w7ip> well rpmbuild or the build script
Mar 09 08:05:54 <timeless_w7ip> the .config says Linux kernel version: 2.6.28.rc7-4.netbook
Mar 09 08:06:15 <timeless_w7ip> CONFIG_X86_32=y .. CONFIG_X86=y .. CONFIG_ARCH_DEFCONFIG="arch/x86/configs/i386_defconfig" ..
Mar 09 08:06:32 <ali1234> so... that's an ancient kernel
Mar 09 08:06:51 <timeless_w7ip> not sure if the kernel is ancient
Mar 09 08:07:03 <timeless_w7ip> it could be that the idiots "maintaining" the ".config" file aren't doing a great job
Mar 09 08:07:59 <timeless_w7ip> remember, my build path is kernel-2.6.37/linux-2.6.37
Mar 09 08:08:38 <timeless_w7ip> grr
Mar 09 08:08:44 <timeless_w7ip> where's this file coming from? SOURCE?
Mar 09 08:09:03 <ali1234> the source rpm has config-x86
Mar 09 08:09:11 <ali1234> and config-generic
Mar 09 08:09:44 <timeless_w7ip> this seems to be config-generic
Mar 09 08:10:19 <ali1234> yeah config-x86 seems to be some kind of diff
Mar 09 08:10:28 <timeless_w7ip> is it likely that a config file from 2.6.28 won't work w/ 2.6.37?
Mar 09 08:10:42 <ali1234> it will "work"
Mar 09 08:10:49 <tomma> "make oldconfig"
Mar 09 08:10:55 <ali1234> but any option that is in the kernel and not the config will be prompted for
Mar 09 08:11:15 <ali1234> which is what you are seeing
Mar 09 08:11:17 <timeless_w7ip> ali: "prompting for" violates my definition of "work[ing]"
Mar 09 08:11:28 <ali1234> then it is highly unlikely to work
Mar 09 08:11:41 <timeless_w7ip> tomma: http://mxr.meego.com/rpmbuild-kernel-err.txt
Mar 09 08:11:46 <timeless_w7ip> the script /tried/ to do that
Mar 09 08:12:04 <ali1234> can you tell me what it prompts you for?
Mar 09 08:12:05 <timeless_w7ip> it looks like it failed miserably a few lines back
Mar 09 08:12:12 <Myrtti> I think my email client or something is broken
Mar 09 08:12:20 <Myrtti> how come I get so little email now from the mailing lists
Mar 09 08:13:14 <timeless_w7ip> write(2, "\nError in reading or end of file"..., 34) = 34rnwrite(1, "Generic x86 support (X86_GENERIC"..., 3346) = 3346
Mar 09 08:13:29 <timeless_w7ip> iirc it was asking about a multiprocessor thing the second time around
Mar 09 08:13:35 <timeless_w7ip> i can't tell you what it asked about the first time around
Mar 09 08:13:53 <ali1234> run rpmbuild interactively
Mar 09 08:14:22 <timeless_w7ip> grr
Mar 09 08:14:35 <timeless_w7ip> that's going to totally confuse this poor script which wants to get work done
Mar 09 08:14:37 <timeless_w7ip> but ok
Mar 09 08:14:48 <ali1234> do it in another folder or something
Mar 09 08:15:26 * timeless_w7ip is amused by 'folder'
Mar 09 08:16:19 <timeless_w7ip> /usr/bin/ld: reopening scripts/basic/fixdep: Text file busy
Mar 09 08:16:22 <timeless_w7ip> that's amusing
Mar 09 08:17:13 <timeless_w7ip> - /usr/bin/ld: final link failed: Text file busy
Mar 09 08:17:29 <ali1234> well, this sounds pretty serious
Mar 09 08:17:41 <ali1234> failure to build a proper config is merely a symptom
Mar 09 08:18:33 <timeless_w7ip> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1138984
Mar 09 08:19:02 <ali1234> that's the very first thing it goes interactive on?
Mar 09 08:19:08 <timeless_w7ip> yep
Mar 09 08:19:13 <timeless_w7ip> :)
Mar 09 08:19:38 <timeless_w7ip> i didn't export any vars, so it's possible i did something wrong by not
Mar 09 08:19:52 <timeless_w7ip> but we're asssuming the config is x86 and my host is x86, so i doubt i need any
Mar 09 08:20:02 <timeless_w7ip> if you want me to export stuff, you'd have to hold my hand
Mar 09 08:20:42 <ali1234> "Makefile.config" is supposed to patch config-generic with config-x86 using merge.pl
Mar 09 08:20:44 * timeless_w7ip ponders bug 14224
Mar 09 08:20:46 <_MeeeGoBot_> Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14224 is not accessible
Mar 09 08:20:52 <ali1234> i would guess that isn't happening
Mar 09 08:21:06 <timeless_w7ip> um
Mar 09 08:24:50 <timeless_w7ip> http://mxr.meego.com/repo.out was the full out for my initial unhappy life
Mar 09 08:25:01 <timeless_w7ip> and http://mxr.meego.com/repo.err is the full err for the same
Mar 09 08:25:04 <ali1234> neither config-generic nor config-x86 has KERNEL_GZIP
Mar 09 08:25:31 <timeless_w7ip> all things considered, there aren't many errors
Mar 09 08:26:51 <ali1234> i suspect you really could fudge this one with just yes "" | rpmbuild
Mar 09 08:27:23 <ali1234> i don't understand how this rpm is supposed to build without that though
Mar 09 08:27:30 <timeless_w7ip> how does yes work for a 4 answer question?
Mar 09 08:27:43 <ali1234> yes "" will just send lots of newlines
Mar 09 08:27:59 <ali1234> causing make oldconfig to select the default answer marked with ">"
Mar 09 08:28:04 * timeless_w7ip tries
Mar 09 08:28:49 <timeless_w7ip> ali: btw, i owe you a dinner
Mar 09 08:28:56 <ali1234> hmmm: http://build.meego.com/package/rawlog?arch=i586&package=kernel&project=Trunk&repository=standard
Mar 09 08:29:16 <ali1234> i see a bunch of errors just like yours...
Mar 09 08:29:44 <timeless_w7ip> ...
Mar 09 08:30:10 <timeless_w7ip> Error in reading or end of file.
Mar 09 08:30:25 <ali1234> ah...
Mar 09 08:30:27 <ali1234> i wonder
Mar 09 08:30:29 <timeless_w7ip> that's the bit where the system sends ^D or an equivalent as a "Get me the F*** out of here you lame ****er"
Mar 09 08:30:54 <ali1234> what does make oldconfig do if there is no tty? and how are you running your script?
Mar 09 08:31:18 <timeless_w7ip> my script has a tty because i'm running it from one while i'm doing debugging
Mar 09 08:31:23 <ali1234> yeah
Mar 09 08:31:36 <timeless_w7ip> rpmbuild -bp kernel.spec < /dev/null ?
Mar 09 08:31:46 <ali1234> i suspect make oldconfig behaves differently without one, ie it just skips all questions
Mar 09 08:32:20 <timeless_w7ip> fwiw i still got the /usr/bin/ld: reopening scripts/basic/fixdep: Text file busy error bit
Mar 09 08:32:29 <timeless_w7ip> w/ yes "", but at least it didn't hang
Mar 09 08:33:39 <ali1234> yes, make config < /dev/null does not ask questions... and prints that "Error in reading or end of file." message a lot too
Mar 09 08:33:47 <ali1234> so yeah, that would be the answer
Mar 09 08:34:03 <ali1234> and it still outputs anyway
Mar 09 08:34:05 <timeless_w7ip> ok, i should be able to pass dev null to rpmbuild
Mar 09 08:34:47 <ali1234> yeah
Mar 09 08:35:36 <timeless_w7ip> hrm, i have a feeling i'm going to need Open3 for this
Mar 09 08:37:43 <ali1234> are you using popen or something?
Mar 09 08:38:12 <timeless_w7ip> i'm currently using perl's system() to call rpmbuild
Mar 09 08:38:15 <timeless_w7ip> which is a bad idea
Mar 09 08:38:19 <ali1234> ah
Mar 09 08:38:26 <timeless_w7ip> since it results in stdout/stderr going to stdout/stderr
Mar 09 08:38:30 <ali1234> yeah
Mar 09 08:38:37 <timeless_w7ip> it's the only part of my code that's naive like that
Mar 09 08:38:47 <ali1234> so you need to popen and then close the stdin
Mar 09 08:39:05 <ali1234> or something
Mar 09 08:39:07 <timeless_w7ip> i wonder if this would have worked differently if i used `` or something
Mar 09 08:39:17 <timeless_w7ip> i think i was playing w/ system() just because
Mar 09 08:39:33 <ali1234> can't you just do "myscript.pl < /dev/null"?
Mar 09 08:40:09 <timeless_w7ip> i was trying to use a form of a perl command that passed arguments as arguments instead of constructing a script and evaluating it
Mar 09 08:40:31 <timeless_w7ip> trying to make my code more audit friendly and theoretically more tolerant of evil random characters
Mar 09 08:40:36 <ali1234> yeah that can trip you up if you try to use shell stuff like redirects
Mar 09 08:40:42 <timeless_w7ip> right
Mar 09 08:40:57 <timeless_w7ip> i can either switch back to using `` and friends or move to open3
Mar 09 08:41:03 <ali1234> but the simple (and probably bad) way around that is to make the first arg be "/bin/sh" or similar
Mar 09 08:42:08 <ali1234> eg /bin/sh "rpmbuild ... < /dev/null"
Mar 09 08:42:25 <timeless_w7ip> right, but doing that means i have to ensure that <...> isn't dangerous
Mar 09 08:42:33 <ali1234> yes
Mar 09 08:42:47 <timeless_w7ip> by having each of the components of <...> as its own argument to rpmbuild, i was mostly protected against some forms of dangerous
Mar 09 08:42:57 <timeless_w7ip> (and yes, i'm well aware that rpmbuild is *incredibly* dangerous)
Mar 09 08:43:09 <ali1234> so...
Mar 09 08:43:33 <timeless_w7ip> i mean, $x = `rpmbuild -bp foo.spec < /dev/null 2>&1`
Mar 09 08:43:40 <timeless_w7ip> is probably good enough for my purposes
Mar 09 08:43:52 <timeless_w7ip> i actually don't think i have any interesting arguments
Mar 09 08:45:10 <ali1234> does system wait for the command to finish?
Mar 09 08:45:47 <timeless_w7ip> yes
Mar 09 08:46:01 <timeless_w7ip> or at least, i hope so :)
Mar 09 08:46:07 <ali1234> if so, using popen (or Open3 as it seems to be called on perl) would let you run multiple tasks in parallel
Mar 09 08:46:19 <ali1234> if you wanted to hammer your server for some reason
Mar 09 08:46:43 <timeless_w7ip> i've already done that once
Mar 09 08:46:48 <timeless_w7ip> i had to ask a sysadmin to kick it
Mar 09 08:46:57 <timeless_w7ip> since he's 10hrs west of me, that was rather inconvenient :)
Mar 09 08:47:21 <timeless_w7ip> there's no real need to parallelize here
Mar 09 08:47:48 <timeless_w7ip> as long as the system can incrementally update sources for only packages which have been updated, the general load to the update step is low
Mar 09 08:48:01 <timeless_w7ip> and in theory the pieces are close to available to make that happen
Mar 09 08:48:15 <timeless_w7ip> (they aren't ready yet, but that's hopefully a couple of day's work)
Mar 09 08:53:33 <timeless_w7ip> stskeeps: are you in Security_Group ?
Mar 09 08:53:35 <timeless_w7ip> andre: ping
Mar 09 08:53:51 <Stskeeps> timeless_w7ip: no, i'm a heathen
Mar 09 08:54:13 <timeless_w7ip> ferenc!
Mar 09 08:54:15 <andre> timeless_w7ip: I'm the wrong one
Mar 09 08:54:18 <timeless_w7ip> are you in Security_Group ?
Mar 09 08:54:24 <timeless_w7ip> andre: you're the wrong andre?
Mar 09 08:54:33 <timeless_w7ip> disappointing. can you get the right one for me? :)
Mar 09 08:54:35 <ferenc> timeless_w7ip: hi timeless!
Mar 09 08:54:46 <timeless_w7ip> hi
Mar 09 08:54:52 <andre> timeless_w7ip: yes
Mar 09 08:54:55 <timeless_w7ip> i'm looking at bugzilla and i think something broke it
Mar 09 08:55:29 <ferenc> timeless_w7ip: are you referring to maemo bugzilla?
Mar 09 08:55:33 <timeless_w7ip> meego sadly
Mar 09 08:55:50 <timeless_w7ip> just hoping that there was a transitivity property active
Mar 09 08:56:19 <ferenc> timeless_w7ip: I have got nothing to do with meego bz.
Mar 09 08:56:53 <timeless_w7ip> ok
Mar 09 08:57:01 * timeless_w7ip figures it out
Mar 09 08:57:13 <timeless_w7ip> either i did a really really bad job of cloning
Mar 09 08:57:14 <ferenc>  timeless_w7ip: you could try sending a mail to the meego-it list.
Mar 09 08:57:20 <timeless_w7ip> or cloning dos something really really really stupid
Mar 09 08:57:26 <timeless_w7ip> s/dos/does/
Mar 09 08:57:27 <infobot> timeless_w7ip meant: or cloning does something really really really stupid
Mar 09 08:57:31 * timeless_w7ip can't tell which
Mar 09 08:58:47 <timeless_w7ip> ali: so...
Mar 09 08:59:15 <timeless_w7ip> is it reasonable to claim that a package as pushed should work w/o requiring < /dev/null ?
Mar 09 08:59:23 <timeless_w7ip> i.e. that the package is buggy and the maintainer negligent
Mar 09 09:02:07 <ali1234> hmm
Mar 09 09:02:14 <ali1234> possibly
Mar 09 09:02:32 <ali1234> i mean they should probably be running make oldconfig < /dev/null in the rpm if that's what they want
Mar 09 09:02:52 <ali1234> because if you run rpmbuild interactively you should not get a prompt with the potential to select bad settings
Mar 09 09:03:03 <ali1234> so i'm going to say yes
Mar 09 09:04:25 <ali1234> otoh it looks like it is partly by design
Mar 09 09:04:48 <ali1234> but still, whatever it is they are trying to do, there must be a better (although possibly less clever) way to do it
Mar 09 09:09:52 <pillar_> are the qt qml components in somewhat usable state on meego?
Mar 09 09:13:00 <timeless_w7ip> ali: can i get you to file the bug for this
Mar 09 09:13:51 <timeless_w7ip> personally i think the right behavior is for the rpm to abort if it that make thing asks for input
Mar 09 09:14:14 <timeless_w7ip> because it means that the configuration is incomplete
Mar 09 09:14:53 <timeless_w7ip> and given that the spec automatically tests all such configs, it's trivial for the maintainer to update the package before submitting
Mar 09 09:15:39 <ali1234> well making it do that would be tricky
Mar 09 09:15:53 <ali1234> rpm i mean
Mar 09 09:16:44 <ali1234> if i were going to file a bug on this it would be along the lines of "tried to build kernel, got weird menu"
Mar 09 09:18:15 <ali1234> thing is, there's nothing wrong with not including every config option as long as you are willing to accept the default
Mar 09 09:18:32 <timeless_w7ip> well, in theory you could use yes " " | stupid | magic "if /choice/ DIE!"
Mar 09 09:19:08 <ali1234> yeah but you would have to put that in every spec
Mar 09 09:19:28 <ali1234> imean there's no simple way to make rpm die if anything it runs ever asks for input
Mar 09 09:19:29 <timeless_w7ip> i think it only applies to this one
Mar 09 09:20:33 <timeless_w7ip> well, it depends on what the heck they're trying to do here
Mar 09 09:20:43 <timeless_w7ip> if they want to see when their conf is incomplete, it should do something like this
Mar 09 09:20:48 <timeless_w7ip> if not, it should use </dev/null
Mar 09 09:21:04 <ali1234> either way it should never be asking the user for input
Mar 09 09:22:52 <timeless_w7ip> oh, it's my favorite
Mar 09 09:23:00 <timeless_w7ip> IO-Socket-SSL-1.35
Mar 09 09:23:06 <timeless_w7ip> + /usr/bin/iconv -f iso-8859-1 -t utf-8 -o README{.utf8,}
Mar 09 09:24:08 <ali1234> er... how do i set up source repos?
Mar 09 09:24:24 <Stskeeps> they're rpms like any other
Mar 09 09:24:27 <Stskeeps> i think
Mar 09 09:24:48 * timeless_w7ip shrugs
Mar 09 09:24:54 <timeless_w7ip> i can give you the script i use :)
Mar 09 09:24:55 <ali1234> when i try to zypper source-install kernel it says "Source package 'kernel' not found."
Mar 09 09:25:07 <ali1234> yeah i want this bug report to actually be reproducable :)
Mar 09 09:26:08 <timeless_w7ip> http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/crawl-meego-repo.pl.txt?raw=1
Mar 09 09:26:57 <timeless_w7ip> that will get you *all* srpms for a given 'version', defaulting to trunk latest
Mar 09 09:27:10 <ali1234> so i just needed to nano -w /etc/zypp/repos.d/oss.repo and set enabled=1 for oss-source repo
Mar 09 09:27:30 * timeless_w7ip wonders what -w does
Mar 09 09:27:38 <ali1234> me too
Mar 09 09:27:47 <timeless_w7ip> disables wordwrap
Mar 09 09:28:44 <timeless_w7ip> right, so... that takes me back to my friendly stupid IO thing
Mar 09 09:28:56 <timeless_w7ip> for some reason it thinks that it'd be a good idea to read from stdin too
Mar 09 09:31:15 <timeless_w7ip> is {} another bashism?
Mar 09 09:31:40 <timeless_w7ip> dash -c "echo /usr/bin/iconv -f iso-8859-1 -t utf-8 -o README{.utf8,}"
Mar 09 09:31:52 <timeless_w7ip> > /usr/bin/iconv -f iso-8859-1 -t utf-8 -o README{.utf8,}
Mar 09 09:31:57 <timeless_w7ip> bash -c "echo /usr/bin/iconv -f iso-8859-1 -t utf-8 -o README{.utf8,}"
Mar 09 09:32:04 <timeless_w7ip> > /usr/bin/iconv -f iso-8859-1 -t utf-8 -o README.utf8 README
Mar 09 09:32:53 <timeless_w7ip> ok, so in theory when i switch rpmbuild to using bash, my problem w/ IO-Socket-SSL will go away
Mar 09 09:33:27 <timeless_w7ip> could someone please explain to me *why* it makes sense to write README{.utf8,} instead of README.utf8 README
Mar 09 09:33:54 <timeless_w7ip> especially given that the thing before this is  <-o>
Mar 09 09:34:19 <timeless_w7ip> so what you have is a token which takes one argument followed by a token which produces two arguments, one for the preceding argument, and one for something else
Mar 09 09:34:34 <timeless_w7ip> i mean, i reserve the right to be cute occasionally, but this does not count
Mar 09 09:35:14 <timeless_w7ip> so...
Mar 09 09:35:32 <timeless_w7ip> if i wanted to use the community obs w/ my own rpmmacros, could i do it?
Mar 09 09:35:52 <timeless_w7ip> i'd love to see all of the errors triggered by fixing _build_shell to /bin/dash
Mar 09 09:36:09 <ruskie> hehe
Mar 09 09:36:32 <timeless_w7ip> ruskie: keep in mind that i'm hitting each and every stupid error related to this
Mar 09 09:36:59 <timeless_w7ip> ooh, my long running process finally reached apr 6 (target is apr 30)
Mar 09 09:37:00 <ruskie> README{.utf8,} <-- just reduces the amount of things to type
Mar 09 09:37:08 <timeless_w7ip> ruskie: in a .spec file?!
Mar 09 09:37:12 <timeless_w7ip> you type it once
Mar 09 09:37:15 <ruskie> hehe
Mar 09 09:37:21 <ruskie> people still do it since they get used to it
Mar 09 09:37:34 <timeless_w7ip> if this where something i was running in a shell, sure, but in a spec file, being magical like this seems stupid
Mar 09 09:37:45 <timeless_w7ip> s/where/were/
Mar 09 09:37:48 <infobot> timeless_w7ip meant: if this were something i was running in a shell, sure, but in a spec file, being magical like this seems stupid
Mar 09 09:37:52 * timeless_w7ip makes typos when angry
Mar 09 09:38:21 <ruskie> hehe
Mar 09 09:39:07 <ali1234> ok, when you zypper source-install... what does it do with it?
Mar 09 09:39:11 <ruskie> btw how would switching the build shell to dash solve problems?
Mar 09 09:39:58 <ali1234> it wouldn't
Mar 09 09:40:02 <ali1234> it would just expose them
Mar 09 09:40:33 <ali1234> oh ok it puts it in a folder called rpmbuild...
Mar 09 09:42:55 <ali1234> ok, zypper si -d kernel did not install gcc. pretty sure you need that to build a kernel.
Mar 09 09:43:42 <timeless_w7ip> heh
Mar 09 09:43:53 <timeless_w7ip> source install installs the source
Mar 09 09:43:58 <timeless_w7ip> it clearly doesn't install the build dept
Mar 09 09:44:02 <timeless_w7ip> s/dept/deps/
Mar 09 09:44:04 <infobot> timeless_w7ip meant: it clearly doesn't install the build deps
Mar 09 09:44:09 <ali1234> si -d does
Mar 09 09:44:14 <timeless_w7ip> oh
Mar 09 09:44:19 <ali1234> it's supposed to anyway
Mar 09 09:44:37 <ali1234> what it actually does is install the deps that the package maintainer thinks you probably don't have
Mar 09 09:44:42 <ali1234> "gcc? everyone has that right?"
Mar 09 09:45:50 <dm8tbr> on debian there's build-essential for meego we have that package group meego-..... can one add that as a dependency? asking out of curiosity here
Mar 09 09:46:15 <ali1234> dunno... but can you tell me what it is called so i don't have to play hunt the dependency?
Mar 09 09:49:46 <ali1234> is it unreasonable to think that this would work: http://pastebin.com/6hb8PnWV
Mar 09 09:50:19 <ali1234> i can tell you from experience that the equivalent works on ubuntu
Mar 09 09:51:52 <arfoll> "Development Tools"?
Mar 09 09:55:43 <ali1234> probably need meego-packaging-tools too
Mar 09 09:56:27 <ali1234> that probably would pull in rpm-build
Mar 09 09:57:09 <ali1234> hmm that installed yum
Mar 09 09:57:16 <ali1234> i thought yum was gone
Mar 09 09:57:19 <arfoll> i think it was decided a while back on the mailing list these "obvious" deps would be ommited from spec files
Mar 09 09:57:39 <arfoll> ali1234, not surprised yum is still in meego 1.1 - not sure why, maybe a bug should be filed
Mar 09 09:57:47 <ali1234> i'm using trunk
Mar 09 09:58:00 <arfoll> then there should be a bug
Mar 09 09:58:42 <ali1234> i need a bug tracker just to keep track of the bugs i need to file
Mar 09 10:00:08 <ali1234> is bug 12714 related?
Mar 09 10:00:10 <_MeeeGoBot_> Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12714 nor, Medium, ---, yi.y.yang, REOP, devel:packagemanagement and devel:tools:building are not in sync
Mar 09 10:01:05 <jbos> hey did anyone ever tried to run meego on a archos 70?
Mar 09 10:01:25 <arfoll> ali1234, yeah looks related, apparently yum is still used by mic2
Mar 09 10:04:52 <ali1234> well "rpmbuild kernel.spec" still does nothing...
Mar 09 10:06:23 <ali1234> ok "rpmbuild -bp kernel.spec" is doing something
Mar 09 10:07:09 <timeless_w7ip> ali: yeah, i need to switch to using gmail to draft the bugs i need to file
Mar 09 10:07:18 <timeless_w7ip> right now i use firefox tabs distributed across computers
Mar 09 10:07:20 <timeless_w7ip> (and sites)
Mar 09 10:07:53 <ali1234> hmm this is new
Mar 09 10:08:01 <ali1234> i don't get a config menu
Mar 09 10:08:15 <ali1234> i get "error: Bad exit status from /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.LfaXz9 (%prep)" and then rpmbuild bails out
Mar 09 10:08:34 <ali1234> it's at the same point though
Mar 09 10:16:16 <vgrade-nexus> TSCHAKeee: http://jogglerhacks.blogspot.com/2010/04/grub2-on-joggler.html
Mar 09 10:21:06 <ali1234> so i'm kind of at a loss now... can't reproduce the config menu thing, cos it just crashes out here... which is arguably more correct
Mar 09 10:27:38 <timeless_w7ip> ali: i shoud probably give you my rpm --showrc
Mar 09 10:27:55 <timeless_w7ip> because a bunch of my problems have come from having non meego values
Mar 09 10:28:01 <timeless_w7ip> e.g. not supporting bashisms
Mar 09 10:30:18 <CosmoHill> timeless_w7ip: you're using a .rpmrc file?
Mar 09 10:30:30 <timeless_w7ip> cosmohill: i'm not running meego
Mar 09 10:30:34 <timeless_w7ip> i'm running debian
Mar 09 10:30:37 <CosmoHill> even better
Mar 09 10:30:55 <timeless_w7ip> if you don't run meego, then whatever defaults from your system rpmmacros will not match the ones from meego
Mar 09 10:31:09 <timeless_w7ip> i didn't pick dash, that came from my system
Mar 09 10:31:30 <timeless_w7ip> heck, my rpmmacros file wouldn't naturally tell you that /bin/sh is not a bashist
Mar 09 10:32:55 <CosmoHill> I have issues on my distro cos /bin/sh points to zsh which emulates sh when linked to that way
Mar 09 10:33:38 <ali1234> timeless_w7ip: i'm using meego though...
Mar 09 10:33:47 <CosmoHill> then again any issues with my distro are entirely my fault
Mar 09 10:35:41 <ar> CosmoHill: zsh isn't exactly posix shell, even when invoked as such
Mar 09 10:36:11 <CosmoHill> I had to tell rpm to use /bin/bash instead of /bin/sh
Mar 09 10:41:23 <CosmoHill> damn, I may actually have to buy books for uni
Mar 09 10:55:14 <ali1234> ok, am i still missing something, or should this work? http://pastebin.com/Ycj7C73Y
Mar 09 11:13:01 <timeless_w7ip> ali: what happens when you do it?
Mar 09 11:23:57 <ali1234> timeless_w7ip: http://pastebin.com/4979G8A0
Mar 09 11:36:22 <timeless_w7ip> very helpful, ain't it?
Mar 09 11:36:53 <timeless_w7ip> ok, so, my current version of my script managed to process 9 more packages than the one that generated the current view
Mar 09 11:39:20 <timeless_w7ip> oddly, none of them seem to be things which my recent work should affect
Mar 09 11:49:02 <ali1234> well, gonna bug report it anyway
Mar 09 11:51:07 <ali1234> bug 14307
Mar 09 11:51:10 <_MeeeGoBot_> Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14307 nor, Undecided, ---, yong.y.wang, NEW, kernel build with rpmbuild fails during prep
Mar 09 11:57:56 <lcuk> ahhh technology http://twitter.com/DougRDNaylor/status/45450616503418880
Mar 09 12:18:58 <timeless_w7ip> lcuk: awesome
Mar 09 12:19:14 <lcuk> timeless_w7ip, yeah, going to monitor it and see
Mar 09 12:19:35 * lcuk interested to know which device 
Mar 09 12:22:52 * timeless_w7ip grumbles
Mar 09 12:23:08 <timeless_w7ip> ali1234: so...
Mar 09 12:23:14 <timeless_w7ip> my script "finished"
Mar 09 12:23:16 <timeless_w7ip> but um
Mar 09 12:23:41 * timeless_w7ip got no output :(
Mar 09 12:23:53 * timeless_w7ip grumbles
Mar 09 12:33:20 <timeless_w7ip> oh, well, heh
Mar 09 12:33:30 <timeless_w7ip> no output isn't necessarily a bad thing
Mar 09 12:33:42 <timeless_w7ip> ali1234: http://mxr.meego.com/draft-repo.meego.com/source/chromium/
Mar 09 12:35:43 <timeless_w7ip> hrm, something -very-bad- is happening in that tree
Mar 09 12:44:28 * timeless_w7ip sighs
Mar 09 12:44:54 <lcuk> timeless_w7ip, what is the badness factor based on?
Mar 09 12:45:16 <timeless_w7ip> lcuk: try loading http://mxr.meego.com/draft-repo.meego.com/source/
Mar 09 12:45:33 <timeless_w7ip> open a new window
Mar 09 12:45:35 <timeless_w7ip> in it, load http://mxr.meego.com/draft-repo.meego.com/source/chromium/README?force=1&colorwithjs=0
Mar 09 12:45:40 <timeless_w7ip> then load http://mxr.meego.com/draft-repo.meego.com/source/?
Mar 09 12:48:11 * timeless_w7ip sighs
Mar 09 12:48:22 <timeless_w7ip> what the heck is up w/ these random permisions in tarballs
Mar 09 12:49:22 <timeless_w7ip> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1139424
Mar 09 12:50:11 * timeless_w7ip sighs
Mar 09 12:50:15 <timeless_w7ip> that isn't even a correct find
Mar 09 12:53:27 <timeless_w7ip> or maybe it is
Mar 09 12:54:51 <lcuk> timeless_w7ip, hm
Mar 09 12:55:43 <timeless_w7ip> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1139436
Mar 09 12:55:47 <timeless_w7ip> is the corrected version
Mar 09 12:57:18 <timeless_w7ip> lcuk; were you hm'ing about 'bad [source]' or 'heck [pastebin]'?
Mar 09 12:57:48 <lcuk> bad src
Mar 09 12:58:00 <timeless_w7ip> if you're interested in that..
Mar 09 12:58:23 <lcuk> curious as to what is causing it
Mar 09 12:58:32 * timeless_w7ip sighs
Mar 09 12:59:56 <timeless_w7ip> http://mxr.meego.com/mxr/source/lib/LXR/Common.pm
Mar 09 13:00:01 <timeless_w7ip> look for 'colorwithjs'
Mar 09 13:01:05 <timeless_w7ip> actually, hrm
Mar 09 13:01:40 <timeless_w7ip> yeah
Mar 09 13:01:46 <timeless_w7ip> i don't have gzip stuff here
Mar 09 13:02:22 <timeless_w7ip> so i believe it *should* be from the colorwithjs compression alg
Mar 09 13:05:09 <timeless_w7ip> grr
Mar 09 13:05:17 <timeless_w7ip> i'm having trouble triggering this with curl
Mar 09 13:10:15 <lcuk> timeless_w7ip, there is an odd cookie mention in that file, line 1621 - is that the normal way you remove a cookie?
Mar 09 13:11:46 <timeless_w7ip> cookie removal is done by setting an expiry in the past
Mar 09 13:12:21 * lcuk just eats cookies 
Mar 09 13:12:24 <lcuk> with milk
Mar 09 13:13:11 <timeless_w7ip> 2000 isn't necessarily a wonderful choice as expiration dates go, since there used to be pages in 2000
Mar 09 13:13:28 <timeless_w7ip> but your n900's default date is newer than that, so it's relatively safe :)
Mar 09 13:13:31 <lcuk> yes
Mar 09 13:13:40 <lcuk> but this is mxr code
Mar 09 13:13:46 <lcuk> which runs on normal systems
Mar 09 13:14:35 <timeless_w7ip> yeah, but basically unless you have a visitor who sets his clock to 1999
Mar 09 13:14:54 <timeless_w7ip> because he's testing for milenium bugs, your cookie is safely eaten
Mar 09 13:15:17 <timeless_w7ip> and even if it isn't eaten, it's set to empty which is treated as not 1 iirc
Mar 09 13:16:17 <lcuk> sure
Mar 09 13:16:22 <timeless_w7ip> you can think of colorwithjs as a context aware modgzip
Mar 09 13:16:31 <timeless_w7ip> but it relies on client js to decompress
Mar 09 13:40:13 <Myrtti> ho hum
Mar 09 13:41:21 * lcuk looks forward to another visit to MOSI this weekend :)
Mar 09 13:41:23 <jainjacob> anyone installed meego 1.2 on Nikia N900??
Mar 09 13:41:39 <lcuk> jainjacob, I have todays daily testing image in front of me now
Mar 09 13:41:45 <timeless_w7ip> mosi?
Mar 09 13:42:06 <lcuk> timeless_w7ip, Museum of science and industry, here in Manchester
Mar 09 13:42:20 * lcuk gets the tweet
Mar 09 13:42:28 <lcuk> Meet the... Telecommunication Engineers this weekend http://ht.ly/49XlR Take a look around the Connecting Manchester gallery too!    http://twitter.com/voiceofmosi/status/45210945613594624
Mar 09 13:42:49 <jainjacob> @lcuk How is it..? Any improvements ?? Am asking about speed??
Mar 09 13:43:19 <lcuk> jainjacob, speed of what?
Mar 09 13:44:24 <jainjacob> @lcuk, any lagging?
Mar 09 13:44:44 <lcuk> timeless_w7ip, a bit more info: http://www.britishscienceassociation.org/forms/events/view-event.asp?id=11502
Mar 09 13:45:02 <lcuk> jainjacob, what apps are you interested in?
Mar 09 13:45:20 * lcuk is testing the vkb
Mar 09 13:45:32 <lcuk> and adding contacts and stuff
Mar 09 13:46:16 <jainjacob> lcuk, web browser
Mar 09 13:46:49 <lcuk> jainjacob, how about you get yourself a testing image and check for yourself
Mar 09 13:46:50 <lcuk> http://download.meego.com/testing-daily/builds/trunk/1.1.90.6.20110308.89/images/meego-handset-armv7l-n900/
Mar 09 13:47:01 <lcuk> because the websites I use will not be the same ones you do
Mar 09 13:47:38 * timeless_w7ip wonders what web browser
Mar 09 13:47:40 <lcuk> and plus, I do not have networking configured (custom wifi)
Mar 09 13:49:33 <lcuk> timeless_w7ip, fennec is the top left first icon on the app grid :)
Mar 09 13:50:03 <jainjacob> lcuk, sorry, I don't hav an N900. I'm gonna buy one.. thats why am asking.. :)
Mar 09 13:51:46 <timeless_w7ip> jainjacob: don't buy based on what isn't part of the product
Mar 09 13:52:16 <timeless_w7ip> if you aren't comfortable w/ the n900 running maemo, then you're making a huge investment in assuming that meego will eventually do what you want on your n900
Mar 09 13:54:10 <jbos> i wonder, what is the unifined way to start applications which handle specific mimetypes
Mar 09 13:54:14 <lcuk> sage advice about many things.
Mar 09 13:55:35 <jbos> on handset there is libcontentaction
Mar 09 13:55:45 <jbos> but there is not such a thing in core compliance
Mar 09 13:55:46 <jbos> mhm
Mar 09 13:55:56 <lcuk> jainjacob, the MeeGo N900 experience and target is to ensure it is usable as a DeveloperEdition phone with base working functionality to build up from
Mar 09 13:55:58 <timeless_w7ip> jboss: there's probably an opendesktop dispatch standard
Mar 09 13:55:59 <lcuk> http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/DeveloperEdition
Mar 09 13:56:05 <lcuk> not for an end user product
Mar 09 13:57:15 <jbos> lcuk do voicecall (celluar) already work ?
Mar 09 13:57:22 <jbos> wasn't able to get them working
Mar 09 13:57:52 <Stskeeps> jbos: yeah, if you don't have a PIN on your sim
Mar 09 13:57:52 <lcuk> jbos, IDK actually, will stick my sim in to see now whilst I have it booted
Mar 09 13:57:56 <jbos> lcuk, btw. we are just landing some good patches for fennec in upstream
Mar 09 13:58:00 <lcuk> (well, reboot etc)
Mar 09 13:58:19 <lcuk> jbos, ++
Mar 09 13:58:31 <jbos> so we have connectivity support and rotation support
Mar 09 13:58:47 <jbos> :) using qt mobility (non meegotouch)
Mar 09 13:59:53 <jbos> firefox mobile / fennec wants to be core compliant - that is why we kicked meegotouch
Mar 09 14:00:05 <jbos> but well... content action should go too
Mar 09 14:00:40 <jbos> ... lcuk are you working on N900 Developer Edition?
Mar 09 14:00:49 <jbos> do you know when deadline is?
Mar 09 14:00:57 <timeless_w7ip> jbos: there used to be a gconf/dbus dispatch
Mar 09 14:01:12 <jbos> so we can have a good fennec version prepared
Mar 09 14:01:21 <jbos> mhm
Mar 09 14:01:33 <timeless_w7ip> but you should really check freedesktop.org
Mar 09 14:01:35 <jbos> timeless_w7ip, i see :)
Mar 09 14:01:44 <lcuk> jbos, not sure, the initiative has only been brewing for a week or so and do not think everything has been ironed out yet
Mar 09 14:02:18 <jbos> ok, so but you are in this initiative? Official?
Mar 09 14:02:51 <Stskeeps> jbos: meego-handset@, get a discussion started
Mar 09 14:05:14 <lcuk> jbos, aren't we all on this initiative?  is it not in the interests to ensure we have a usable MeeGo OS on our Nokia devices?
Mar 09 14:07:45 <timeless_w7ip> jbos: you might try QDesktopServices::openUrl
Mar 09 14:08:39 * timeless_w7ip sighs
Mar 09 14:08:47 <timeless_w7ip> | //to open vedio file in realplayer give full path here.
Mar 09 14:09:01 <timeless_w7ip> i don't think i've seen that spelling before
Mar 09 14:09:55 <lcuk> nice
Mar 09 14:13:35 <timeless_w7ip> that's from FN
Mar 09 14:14:53 <gabrbedd> timakima: w7ip: if you didn't see... I filed the "Obsoletes: meego-netbook-settings" bug.
Mar 09 14:15:02 <gabrbedd> timeless_w7ip: ^^^
Mar 09 14:25:53 <timeless_w7ip> gabrbedd: oh, thanks!
Mar 09 14:26:56 <timeless_w7ip> gabrbedd: hey, could i get you to file bugs about the packages which have go-rx ?
Mar 09 14:27:41 <timeless_w7ip> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1139436
Mar 09 14:28:06 <timeless_w7ip> i'm not sure if there's a policy that says files should be world readable and directories should be world enterable
Mar 09 14:28:17 <timeless_w7ip> but it's really annoying and totally stupid to have otherwise
Mar 09 14:28:36 <timeless_w7ip> since files in repositories are open source, or at least if you can download them you can read them
Mar 09 14:28:49 <timeless_w7ip> anyone who actually wants to enforce local permissions should do so using umask locally
Mar 09 14:29:09 <timeless_w7ip> whereas right now people who want to install things for other users have to manually fix up permissions -- there's no *anti* umask
Mar 09 14:35:13 <gabrbedd> timeless_w7ip: ok.
Mar 09 14:36:41 <timeless_w7ip> thanks
Mar 09 15:00:21 <jbos> lcuk did the sim stuff work for y`
Mar 09 15:00:51 <lcuk> jbos, I got a call on my phone just as I was taking out the battery and got sidetracked
Mar 09 15:01:01 * lcuk tries now
Mar 09 15:08:23 <lcuk> jbos, yes
Mar 09 15:08:30 <lcuk> i just called tracy
Mar 09 15:08:52 <lcuk> and it came out of the earpiece as expected but stuff was not all working, (dialer has a range of bugs already)
Mar 09 15:09:02 <Stskeeps> sound's pretty good though
Mar 09 15:09:16 <lcuk> and somewhere in the middle of the conversation it changed from earpiece to speakers
Mar 09 15:09:20 <lcuk> and I could not get it back
Mar 09 15:09:25 <RST38h> hey vasvlad =)
Mar 09 15:09:26 <timeless_w7ip> ali1234: i think http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1139786 might solve my problems
Mar 09 15:09:34 <lcuk> which was odd because the speakers were quieter than earpiece
Mar 09 15:09:39 <timeless_w7ip> (yes, that's patching tar, no XXX isn't defined, i'd need to add some glue)
Mar 09 15:09:58 <jbos> mhm which version do you use?
Mar 09 15:10:03 <jbos> of meego on n900
Mar 09 15:10:09 <jbos> latest weekly?
Mar 09 15:10:33 <TSCHAKeee> vgrade-nexus: i'm trying to get the kernel penguins and kernel messages to not show up at bootup...problem is that plymouth loads way late in the boot process and it only shows up for a few moments...
Mar 09 15:11:01 <jbos> lcuk ^^^
Mar 09 15:11:34 <lcuk> jbos, daily testing as normal
Mar 09 15:11:34 <lcuk> http://download.meego.com/testing-daily/builds/trunk/1.1.90.6.20110308.89/images/meego-handset-armv7l-n900/
Mar 09 15:11:51 <timeless_w7ip> has anyone here seen my house keys? :(
Mar 09 15:12:42 <lcuk> timeless_w7ip, that patch seems sensible really, though isn't tar meant to retain and drop the file trees as expected
Mar 09 15:13:03 <lcuk> and would it be simpler to scan the directory tree after tar has finished its normal run?
Mar 09 15:13:17 <timeless_w7ip> not really
Mar 09 15:13:35 <timeless_w7ip> i mean, in theory a perl script could recurse through the entire tree
Mar 09 15:14:14 <timeless_w7ip> there are only 1.1 million files in repo.meego.com as of the last index
Mar 09 15:14:33 <timeless_w7ip> the problem is that the logic really is as painful as written there
Mar 09 15:14:42 <ar> running a perl script over a 1.1 milion files sounds... slow
Mar 09 15:14:44 <timeless_w7ip> so one can't simply use 'find' and ask it to do work
Mar 09 15:14:51 <timeless_w7ip> ar: it's hardly ideal
Mar 09 15:15:00 <timeless_w7ip> especially when asking tar to not be annoying is easier
Mar 09 15:15:39 <lcuk> you might have 1.1 million uses of tar though, but general folks have many more between them
Mar 09 15:15:58 <lcuk> if it is a new parameter, as you say XXX_ is not defined yet
Mar 09 15:16:05 <timeless_w7ip> ar: otoh, a perl script has to visit each file anyway to read its contents, so technically it could always reset perms as it goes
Mar 09 15:16:06 <lcuk> it wuold be reasonable
Mar 09 15:16:16 <timeless_w7ip> the problem is dealing w/ directories
Mar 09 15:16:31 <timeless_w7ip> an indexer has no business screwing w/ permisions in general
Mar 09 15:16:39 <timeless_w7ip> they should come to it correctly
Mar 09 15:16:57 <timeless_w7ip> thus it should either be something before tar, tar, or something right after tar
Mar 09 15:17:25 <timeless_w7ip> personally i'd favor something before tar - i.e. package maintainers shouldn't be able to submit source packages w/ crappy perms
Mar 09 15:18:03 <timeless_w7ip> i'd rather not patch tar, as lcuk notes the number of users of tar is huge so adding a patch to it hurts average cases to favor not being screwed by stupid maintainers
Mar 09 15:18:08 <timeless_w7ip> which is unfortunate
Mar 09 15:18:39 <lcuk> just write your feather script to run directly after tar
Mar 09 15:18:49 <lcuk> on the specific folder tar just extracted
Mar 09 15:18:54 <timeless_w7ip> but, from a user perspective, even w/o an xref, i like being able to say "I want these files extracted, but i want you to honor my umask, not the umask of the idiot who made the archive for me"
Mar 09 15:19:00 <timeless_w7ip> lcuk: mildly hard
Mar 09 15:19:08 <timeless_w7ip> tar isn't run by me, it's run by rpmbuild
Mar 09 15:19:20 <timeless_w7ip> or a script triggered by something in a spec file
Mar 09 15:19:41 <timeless_w7ip> writing a proper wrapper for tar which can fix up perms is technically doable, but incredibly painful
Mar 09 15:19:44 <lcuk> and now the full reason for digging directly in tar becomes clearer!
Mar 09 15:19:55 <timeless_w7ip> you have to properly handle all arguments to tar
Mar 09 15:20:14 <timeless_w7ip> and no, i do not want to sandbox tar, nor do i want to strace it, or ldpreload hack it, or virtualize it
Mar 09 15:20:22 <lcuk> I thought tar was just one of the normal steps you used building mxr, I did not think it was deeper within
Mar 09 15:20:37 <timeless_w7ip> tar is only used because rpm / deb use it
Mar 09 15:20:42 <timeless_w7ip> mxr doesn't use tar on its own
Mar 09 15:21:03 <timeless_w7ip> it just becomes a victim if tar is involved
Mar 09 15:21:45 <lcuk> roger
Mar 09 15:21:54 <lcuk> I have to go anyway, bbl
Mar 09 15:22:31 <timeless_w7ip> http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/gdbm/
Mar 09 15:22:33 <timeless_w7ip> for example
Mar 09 15:22:38 * timeless_w7ip should have gone 8 hours ago
Mar 09 15:22:40 * timeless_w7ip goes
Mar 09 15:22:42 * timeless_w7ip found keys
Mar 09 15:22:46 <lcuk> \o
Mar 09 15:22:56 <timeless_w7ip> anyway, as far as mxr is concerned, that's a perfectly valid behavior
Mar 09 15:23:06 <timeless_w7ip> and i intend to improve mxr to support more such cases
Mar 09 15:23:21 <timeless_w7ip> it's perfectly reasonable for mxr to be configured so that some visitors can't see some files
Mar 09 15:23:38 <timeless_w7ip> so it's really wrong for mxr to try to fix it up
Mar 09 15:24:02 * timeless_w7ip really leaves
Mar 09 15:38:20 <gabrbedd> Question for an ARM expert:  Is reading/writing  an integer from/to memory an atomic operation?  (For example, it's true on x86 for >=P6, and for others if they are memory aligned)
Mar 09 15:41:57 <Stskeeps> gabrbedd: isn't there this thing called memory barriers or something?
Mar 09 15:42:15 <lcuk> gabrbedd, the indivisable RMW cycle you mean?
Mar 09 15:45:53 <gabrbedd> No, I mean that when I read an integer from memory... will I ever read a "half-written" value?
Mar 09 15:46:17 <lcuk> has that ever happened in the past?
Mar 09 15:46:29 <gabrbedd> has gabe ever used ARM in the past?
Mar 09 15:46:35 <gabrbedd> :-)
Mar 09 15:47:03 <lcuk> gabrbedd, so older pentiums can get part written values?
Mar 09 15:48:55 <gabrbedd> lcuk: As I understand it... yes, if the data is not aligned. (Intel sofware manual vol 3a sect. 8.1.1)
Mar 09 15:50:02 <berndhs> how could the processor prevent this, if the integer is in 2 different memory words ?
Mar 09 15:50:32 <gabrbedd> The discussion at-hand is actually off-topic... it's whether or not JACK needs to use memory barriers/atomic ops on its ringbuffer implementation.
Mar 09 15:50:51 <gabrbedd> The current decision by the devs is that "reading an int from memory is atomic on all modern arch's"
Mar 09 15:51:02 <berndhs> ah
Mar 09 15:51:08 <lcuk> what is JACK?
Mar 09 15:51:16 <berndhs> that's a silly assumption IMO :)
Mar 09 15:51:21 <gabrbedd> I'm just doing my homework on ARM... since there are ARMians here.  :-)
Mar 09 15:51:49 <gabrbedd> berndhs: IDK and don't care /how/ the processor prevents it.  I only care if they /promise/ to prevent it.  :-)
Mar 09 15:51:59 <gabrbedd> lcuk: http://jackaudio.org
Mar 09 15:52:25 <berndhs> its a bad assumption because it is unrelated to what jack does
Mar 09 15:53:02 <gabrbedd> berndhs: disagree about the assumption being silly.  It seems to be true.
Mar 09 15:53:12 <berndhs> someone wants to re-target it do a new kind of processor, and they can get mysterious problems
Mar 09 15:53:34 <berndhs> whether or not it is true is not the same as whether it is silly :)
Mar 09 15:53:49 <TSCHAKeee> lcuk: JACK is a professional audio library that has arbitrary input/output routing and low latency. I've used it in my studio setup.
Mar 09 15:54:02 <TSCHAKeee> has anyone tried to get glibc-common to not be so @#($%#@ big?
Mar 09 15:54:11 <berndhs> the conditions can change, quite unrelated to JACK
Mar 09 15:56:46 <jbos> lcuk ping
Mar 09 15:57:04 <jbos> i put meego from nightly
Mar 09 15:57:23 <jbos> on n900, after booting i just see lock screen
Mar 09 15:57:30 <jbos> but can not exit it
Mar 09 15:57:38 <Stskeeps> TSCHAKeee: locales?
Mar 09 15:57:46 <TSCHAKeee> Stskeeps: a-yup
Mar 09 15:57:48 <jbos> ah wait... now it works
Mar 09 15:57:59 <TSCHAKeee> Stskeeps: i'm also trying to squeeze in busybox
Mar 09 15:58:07 <Stskeeps> why..
Mar 09 15:58:08 <Stskeeps> :P
Mar 09 15:58:08 <jbos> where should i be able to  enter pin?
Mar 09 15:58:20 <Stskeeps> jbos: that's the catch, we don't have PIN support yet
Mar 09 15:58:21 <TSCHAKeee> Stskeeps: 1GB flash, and i'm almost out
Mar 09 15:58:23 <Stskeeps> thought i said that earlier
Mar 09 15:58:31 <Stskeeps> TSCHAKeee: remove sample media
Mar 09 15:58:32 <Stskeeps> :P
Mar 09 15:58:33 <jbos> ah
Mar 09 15:58:37 <TSCHAKeee> Stskeeps: already did
Mar 09 15:58:51 <TSCHAKeee> Stskeeps: i am building against meego core, but i have an explicit - for it
Mar 09 15:58:52 <jbos> :O ok how do i disable pin on my sim?
Mar 09 15:58:53 <miksuh> I repeat this because in now there is more people her than was in last night :) So maybe someone can do this:
Mar 09 15:58:56 <miksuh> but that is for the Debian 5.0 'Lenny' and Debian 6.0 'Squeeze' was released month ago
Mar 09 15:59:00 <Stskeeps> jbos: do it in maemo
Mar 09 15:59:02 <miksuh> damn
Mar 09 15:59:05 <Stskeeps> miksuh: there's a bug for the debian 6.0 stuf
Mar 09 15:59:05 <Stskeeps> f
Mar 09 15:59:49 <miksuh> Stskeeps: ah ok, what kind of bug?
Mar 09 15:59:57 <Stskeeps> miksuh: search for debian 6.0 on bugs.meego.com
Mar 09 16:00:05 <Stskeeps> the problem is that our build service doesn't support it yet
Mar 09 16:01:04 <miksuh> ok, I can wait :)
Mar 09 16:01:19 <Stskeeps> vote for the bug,e asier
Mar 09 16:01:25 <jbos> mhm when is pin support scheduled
Mar 09 16:01:36 <Stskeeps> jbos: that's part of what we hope to fix in DE
Mar 09 16:01:53 <jbos> DE?
Mar 09 16:04:04 <jbos> what is DE?
Mar 09 16:04:19 <jbos> stskeeps^
Mar 09 16:04:26 <Stskeeps> Developer Edition
Mar 09 16:04:31 <jbos> i see
Mar 09 17:01:49 <lcuk> Space Shuttle Discovery touched down safely :)
Mar 09 17:03:04 <gabrbedd> \o/
Mar 09 17:04:10 <berndhs> 1 down, 2 to go
Mar 09 17:07:14 <lcuk> berndhs, ?
Mar 09 17:07:23 <berndhs> 2 more trips, and that's it
Mar 09 17:15:15 <gabrbedd> berndhs: lcuk  2 more for the shuttle program.  Discovery is going out to pasture.
Mar 09 17:15:18 <gabrbedd> :-)
Mar 09 17:15:42 <berndhs> right, 1 each for the other shuttles
Mar 09 17:16:09 <lcuk> berndhs, gabrbedd yeah
Mar 09 17:16:34 * lcuk sidetracked by sms
Mar 09 17:16:39 <gabrbedd> berndhs: I was sure that you knew... but it was news to me last week... :-)
Mar 09 17:30:18 <lcuk> sabotage, well said on bug 7074 :)
Mar 09 17:30:20 <_MeeeGoBot_> Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7074 nor, High, ---, shane.bryan, ASSI, Incoming call can not be answered if dialer not open when call is received.
Mar 09 17:48:21 * timoph voted on 7074
Mar 09 17:49:13 <lcuk> \o/ timoph
Mar 09 17:49:38 * lcuk goes decorating anyway, bbl
Mar 09 17:50:09 <gabrbedd> VOTE 7074 IN 2011!!
Mar 09 17:50:18 <timoph> :D
Mar 09 17:51:11 * SpeedEvil votes 7486 exclusively.
Mar 09 17:51:13 <slonopotamus> who needs calls anyway...
Mar 09 17:51:57 <lcuk> slonopotamus, \o my phone has been ringing non stop last couple of weeks
Mar 09 17:52:30 <slonopotamus> lcuk: did it make you happier?
Mar 09 17:52:54 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: Pick it up then!
Mar 09 17:53:01 <lcuk> hah!
Mar 09 18:02:02 <GAN900> bug 7074
Mar 09 18:02:05 <_MeeeGoBot_> Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7074 nor, High, ---, shane.bryan, ASSI, Incoming call can not be answered if dialer not open when call is received.
Mar 09 18:04:52 <timeless_office> ali1234: did you ever get video conf working?
Mar 09 18:17:01 <Myrtti> nice
Mar 09 18:20:08 <iekku> hmm
Mar 09 18:21:11 <timoph> iekku: fire away
Mar 09 18:21:15 <gabrbedd> *cough*
Mar 09 18:21:43 <iekku> timoph, have been wondering that bug
Mar 09 18:22:02 <gabrbedd> timeless_office: Not sure I understand this file perms bug... let me run it by you.
Mar 09 18:22:03 <timoph> the call answering thing?
Mar 09 18:22:11 <timeless_office> sure
Mar 09 18:22:31 <timoph> IMHO it should be fixed
Mar 09 18:22:52 <gabrbedd> timeless_office: On MXR, when you un-tar the sources... the group and world permissions are set wrong.  Right?
Mar 09 18:22:53 <timoph> s/should/must/
Mar 09 18:22:55 <infobot> timoph meant: IMHO it must be fixed
Mar 09 18:23:11 <timeless_office> yep
Mar 09 18:23:35 <timeless_office> gabrbedd: technically when rpmbuild asks tar to untar
Mar 09 18:23:58 <timeless_office> gabrbedd: it could apply on a public system where an admin user helpfully decides to install sources for meego
Mar 09 18:24:08 <timeless_office> and then users have their own individual accounts on that system
Mar 09 18:24:21 <timeless_office> those users would be able to see 1410/1430 or so packages
Mar 09 18:24:27 <gabrbedd> timeless_office: So... /what/ is untarring the sources to that folder?  Because `zypper si` doesn't untar the sources.
Mar 09 18:24:59 <timeless_office> gabrbedd: rpmbuild -bp does it, i think ali1234 listed a command earlier today that was zypper based
Mar 09 18:27:30 <gabrbedd> Hmmm... Seems to me that `rpmbuild -bp` should be run by the user...  If it's being used to install patched source trees to /usr/src it makes more sense to post-process the perms.
Mar 09 18:28:22 <gabrbedd> But rpmbuild isn't meant for installing the unpacked sources to the system
Mar 09 18:28:28 <timeless_office> gabrbedd: from my perspective, i don't see why 15 or so packages can't behave like the other 1000+ packages
Mar 09 18:29:32 <gabrbedd> timeless_office: Agreed, but it's an upstream "problem" with those packages.
Mar 09 18:29:41 <gabrbedd> And it's really only a problem in your use-case.
Mar 09 18:31:13 <wmnnd> Hi there, are there any packaging tools for Meego? I find it quite annoying that the Meego Wiki shows one way to package applications for Meego via RPM but those packages don’t fulfill the packaging guidelines for Intel’s MeeGo app store …
Mar 09 18:31:26 <timeless_office> heh
Mar 09 18:31:58 <timeless_office> so you've been to http://appdeveloper.intel.com/en-us/ ?
Mar 09 18:32:27 <timeless_office> and you Download[ed] [the] Intel AppUpSM Beta SDK for MeeGo* ?
Mar 09 18:34:59 <wmnnd> timeless_office: Does that include packaging tools?
Mar 09 18:35:07 <timeless_office> dunno, login required
Mar 09 18:35:18 <timeless_office> but since it was the first hit for your query it seems like you should find out
Mar 09 18:36:41 <wmnnd> timeless_office: Mhm … it's  quite su
Mar 09 18:36:57 <wmnnd> *stupid to install everything to /top/application_name/ …
Mar 09 18:38:33 <timeless_office> ?
Mar 09 18:38:43 <gabrbedd> wmnnd: You mean /opt ??
Mar 09 18:39:02 <wmnnd> Err … sorry, just a typo, gabrbedd :)
Mar 09 18:39:18 <gabrbedd> wmnnd: And it's stupid because.... ??
Mar 09 18:39:49 <wmnnd> gabrbedd: Because installing this in the normal file system works fine on every other Linux distribution.
Mar 09 18:40:31 <gabrbedd> wmnnd: No, it doesn't.  Not unless you are /part/ of the other Linux distribution.
Mar 09 18:40:49 <wmnnd> gabrbedd: Of course it does.
Mar 09 18:41:09 <wmnnd> gabrbedd: Usually, all applications are installed to /usr/
Mar 09 18:41:57 <gabrbedd> gabrbedd: What happens if you supply /usr/lib/libwmnnd.so.0
Mar 09 18:42:08 <gabrbedd> gabrbedd: And so do I with my package?
Mar 09 18:42:17 <wmnnd> gabrbedd: You don’t do that.
Mar 09 18:42:29 <gabrbedd> Why not?
Mar 09 18:42:31 <wmnnd> gabrbedd: That’s why you have dependencies.
Mar 09 18:42:42 <wmnnd> You don’t have to supply any libs.
Mar 09 18:42:48 <gabrbedd> Dependencies on what?
Mar 09 18:42:58 <gabrbedd> What if I *am* supplying a lib that my app needs?
Mar 09 18:43:19 <gabrbedd> And I want to call it the same name as yours (because we haven't met before today).
Mar 09 18:43:24 <berndhs> isn't the /opt thing an artifact of maemo, where the Nokia devices didn't have enough space in the normal file system ?
Mar 09 18:43:44 <wmnnd> gabrbedd: Then you are doing something wrong :)
Mar 09 18:43:44 <gabrbedd> Then when the user isntalls your package... it doesn't install because it'll overwrite my file.
Mar 09 18:44:00 <gabrbedd> Then your users file bugs about how your package won't in stall.
Mar 09 18:44:11 <wmnnd> Because you have done something wrong.
Mar 09 18:44:18 <wmnnd> gabrbedd: Not a single linux distribution I know uses this weird system.
Mar 09 18:44:20 <gabrbedd> What did I do wrong?
Mar 09 18:44:51 <gabrbedd> The LSB specificies /opt for this very purpose.
Mar 09 18:45:05 <gabrbedd> Your linux distros don't use it because the distros coordinate your packages.
Mar 09 18:45:36 <gabrbedd> But /opt is for packages distributed by 3rd-party vendors who aren't part of your distro.
Mar 09 18:46:01 <gabrbedd> For example, google packages chrome for /opt because that's where it belongs.
Mar 09 18:46:22 <gabrbedd> Like wise, Adobe Acrobat Reader usually installs in /opt, because that's where it belongs.
Mar 09 18:46:55 <berndhs> gabrbedd: adobe stuff is in /usr on my system
Mar 09 18:47:05 <slonopotamus> Acrobat Reader usually isn't installed at all
Mar 09 18:47:10 <berndhs> i didn't put it there on purpose
Mar 09 18:47:33 <gabrbedd> If you download the reader directly from Adobe... I bet it'll install in /opt
Mar 09 18:48:11 <berndhs> gabrbedd: i have the flash crap installed because there's no way around it, from adobe, its in /usr
Mar 09 18:48:33 <SpeedEvil> gnash!
Mar 09 18:48:40 * SpeedEvil wishes gnash was a replacement.
Mar 09 18:48:41 <gabrbedd> berndhs: ok.  Doesn't change the purpose of /opt.
Mar 09 18:48:55 <gabrbedd> SpeedEvil: Does gnash still fork-bomb machines?  :-p
Mar 09 18:48:57 <berndhs> SpeedEvil: yeah, gnash works for 80% of each video :)
Mar 09 18:49:53 <berndhs> gabrbedd: my point is that /opt isn't uniformly used, even if there is a standard that says it should be
Mar 09 18:50:20 <iekku> hmm, should I or shouldn't I add "bug" to hilight list or not
Mar 09 18:50:40 <iekku> if I add it I could feel popular :P
Mar 09 18:50:47 <gabrbedd> berndhs: Well, if you're writing a "MeeGo Compliant Application" (i.e. and app-store application) -- it must be in /opt, per the meego compliance spec.
Mar 09 18:50:59 <berndhs> gabrbedd: yes probably
Mar 09 18:51:19 <berndhs> another standard to adhere to, everyone can have their own :P
Mar 09 18:51:28 <gabrbedd> The reason it goes to /opt is so that packages don't overwrite each other's files beacuse I have a /usr/bin/foo and you have a /usr/bin/foo, too.
Mar 09 18:51:37 <slonopotamus> proper apps go wherever ./configure --prefix=... they were put
Mar 09 18:52:12 <berndhs> gabrbedd: so you have /opt/bin/foo and I have /opt/bin/foo, how is that any better ?
Mar 09 18:52:21 <slonopotamus> and they do not care what hierarchy is preferred in what distro
Mar 09 18:52:43 <gabrbedd> Nope.  It's supposed to be /opt/berndhs/bin/foo and /opt/org.is-a-geek.gabe/bin/foo
Mar 09 18:53:05 <slonopotamus> gabrbedd: you're a PATH pollution fan?
Mar 09 18:53:11 <berndhs> gabrbedd: yes and then your $PATH is 256Kbytes long :)
Mar 09 18:53:12 <gabrbedd> slonopotamus: You've obviously never had to maintain a distro.
Mar 09 18:53:20 <slonopotamus> ...
Mar 09 18:53:56 <gabrbedd> berndhs: How else do you suggest we coordinate the names of our package files?
Mar 09 18:54:13 <berndhs> gabrbedd: first you realize that you ahve to coordinate them
Mar 09 18:54:20 <gabrbedd> With who?
Mar 09 18:54:24 <lcuk> obviously the only sane way is to have the shell do a "find ...." for each command it encounters :P
Mar 09 18:54:28 <berndhs> because /opt/this/bin and /opt/that/bin doesn't solve the problem
Mar 09 18:54:37 <timeless_office> path pollution isn't an issue
Mar 09 18:54:44 <timeless_office> MeeGo and most users deal w/ GUIs
Mar 09 18:54:50 <timeless_office> there's no requirement that Apps be in $PATH
Mar 09 18:54:58 <gabrbedd> berndhs: How does it not solve the problem?
Mar 09 18:55:00 <timeless_office> apps should register with a mime-database and a .desktop database
Mar 09 18:55:00 <berndhs> timeless_office: GUIs use $PATH
Mar 09 18:55:02 <slonopotamus> timeless_office: that's a good tone
Mar 09 18:55:23 <gabrbedd> GUI's us /usr/share/applications/FOO.desktop
Mar 09 18:55:25 <timeless_office> if an app wants to talk to another app, it should use the /usr/bin mime-database dispatch or the /usr/bin .desktop database dispatch
Mar 09 18:55:31 <berndhs> gabrbedd:/opt/this/bin//foo and /opt
Mar 09 18:55:39 <wmnnd> Mhm … the MeeGo SDK doesn’t contain a nice tool for packaging.
Mar 09 18:55:47 <timeless_office> slonopotamus: sorry, i couldn't parse your statement
Mar 09 18:55:54 <berndhs> gabrbedd: /opt/thi/sbin/foo and /opt/that/bin/foo are now order dependent, that is still a collision
Mar 09 18:56:07 <timeless_office> wmnd: is that the thing i mentioned? if so, please send intel feedback, it's in Beta
Mar 09 18:56:14 <timeless_office> beta's generally exist to collect feedback
Mar 09 18:57:24 <gabrbedd> berndhs: Right... but it still installs fine, and for GUI apps this becomes a non-issue.
Mar 09 18:57:26 <wmnnd> Ah, that sucks.
Mar 09 18:58:08 <timeless_office> collecting feedback sucks?
Mar 09 18:58:15 <timeless_office> you'd rather people *not* collect feedback?
Mar 09 18:58:17 <wmnnd> I mean … they are very nice guys at Intel and the idea behind MeeGo is great … but if you can’t create a simple package for it …
Mar 09 18:58:22 <berndhs> gabrbedd: gui aps don't use $PATH ?  all the stuff from gnome, KDE, xfce menus is started depending on $PATH
Mar 09 18:58:57 <berndhs> gabrbedd: unless your .desktop file contains a full path name
Mar 09 18:59:00 <gabrbedd> berndhs: It is trivial to have you .desktop file call a shell script that modifies the $PATH for your application.
Mar 09 18:59:08 <timeless_office> .desktop files certainly *can* contain full paths
Mar 09 18:59:13 <timeless_office> and they really should
Mar 09 18:59:14 <gabrbedd> s/have you/have your/
Mar 09 18:59:15 <infobot> gabrbedd meant: berndhs: It is trivial to have your .desktop file call a shell script that modifies the $PATH for your application.
Mar 09 18:59:16 <thiago_helsinki> apps most often don't start other apps
Mar 09 18:59:24 <thiago_helsinki> when they do, they usually know the full or relative path to the other service
Mar 09 18:59:28 <timeless_office> thiago: hey, you're in town?
Mar 09 18:59:39 <thiago_helsinki> relative to its installation or to $KDEDIRS or to $XDG_DATA_DIRS, etc.
Mar 09 18:59:41 <berndhs> gabrbedd: its trivial but dirty
Mar 09 18:59:42 <thiago_helsinki> timeless_office: yes, just tonight
Mar 09 18:59:50 <timeless_office> can i buy you a drink or something?
Mar 09 18:59:58 <gabrbedd> If your app has private libs, you can also manipulate $LD_LIBRARY_PATH
Mar 09 19:00:09 <gabrbedd> berndhs: apps stores make me feel dirty. :-p
Mar 09 19:00:30 <thiago_helsinki> timeless_office: I still need dinner. Let me figure out what time a call will happen tonight and I'll let you know if I'm free.
Mar 09 19:01:30 <wmnnd> Has anyone here ever created an RPM package for a MeeGo app?
Mar 09 19:01:40 <slonopotamus> no, it's too dark magic
Mar 09 19:01:55 <andrewfblack> hey did the conferance lenovo s10-3t already have Meego on them?
Mar 09 19:02:00 <berndhs> wmnnd: yes but they are  probably not compliant :)
Mar 09 19:02:09 <slonopotamus> berndhs: :D
Mar 09 19:02:19 <thiago_helsinki> andrewfblack: no, they came with windows. But you weren't allowed to leave the room before you installed MeeGo on it :-)
Mar 09 19:02:43 <wmnnd> Mh, which conference, andrewfblack?
Mar 09 19:03:00 <andrewfblack> thiago_helsinki: ok Intel sent me one this week and it has windows and a non us plug I was wondering if they sent me one meant for someone else
Mar 09 19:04:10 <wmnnd> andrewfblack: I received one with a US plug … but I live in Europe ;)
Mar 09 19:04:58 <andrewfblack> wmnnd: lol I don't know what country its from.  Its not euro because my N900 came with a euro plug maybe china?
Mar 09 19:05:10 <gabrbedd> wmnnd: http://wiki.meego.com/Packaging
Mar 09 19:05:20 <thiago_helsinki> andrewfblack: yeah, we got UK/IE plugins in Dublin
Mar 09 19:05:23 <thiago_helsinki> and I live in Europe
Mar 09 19:05:53 <andrewfblack> yep its chinese I just googled it I wonder why a place in the US sent me a Computer to the US with a Chinese plug crazy
Mar 09 19:06:04 <wmnnd> gabrbedd: That redirects to http://wiki.meego.com/Packaging/Guidelines and there you learn how to create packages that work fine but aren’t compilant with Intel’s guidelines^^
Mar 09 19:06:15 <gabrbedd> timeless_office: back to the file perms bug... I think I'll pass on filing bugs.  Sorry.  :-)
Mar 09 19:07:22 <andrewfblack> take that back its british. looks like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:G_plug.png
Mar 09 19:07:52 <andrewfblack> can I just switch out the end after the inverter with a US one? I have one that will fit
Mar 09 19:09:16 <SpeedEvil> andrewfblack: Does the power supply say 100-240V onit?
Mar 09 19:09:21 <gabrbedd> wmnnd: I don't see the discrepency.  And the requirement to install in /opt is a MeeGo requirement from here: http://wiki.meego.com/Quality/Compliance (section 3.3.4)
Mar 09 19:09:22 <SpeedEvil> If so, almost certainly
Mar 09 19:09:24 <andrewfblack> keyboard is funny on it also the @ is down near shift well atleast the sticker is you have to hit shift 2, if you didn't know how to type it would suck lol
Mar 09 19:09:48 <andrewfblack> SpeedEvil: not sure I will have to look when I get home
Mar 09 19:10:40 <wmnnd> andrewfblack: You can do that. At least I did that^^
Mar 09 19:11:48 <wmnnd> gabrbedd: Well, it shows you how to create a package but not one that is MeeGo standards compilant^^
Mar 09 19:11:52 <andrewfblack> thanks I'll give it a try when I get home
Mar 09 19:23:07 <gabrbedd> wmnnd: Standards complaince is a lot bigger issue than writing a .spec file.
Mar 09 19:24:00 <wmnnd> gabrbedd: Is it?
Mar 09 19:24:26 <ali1234> what does the .spec even have to do with compliance?
Mar 09 19:24:38 <berndhs> the term "standards compliance" makes me think of former cardinal Ratzinger
Mar 09 19:25:24 <wmnnd> berndhs: Ewww … don’t be gross ;)
Mar 09 19:25:32 <berndhs> sorry
Mar 09 19:26:14 <ali1234> hmm so is the community/extras repo expected to optify all packages too? is that document just for appstore type stuff?
Mar 09 19:26:47 <gabrbedd> berndhs: I don't get the joke.  Are you talking about The German Shepherd?
Mar 09 19:27:04 <gabrbedd> ali1234: appstore type stuff.
Mar 09 19:27:28 <gabrbedd> ali1234: "compliant apps" can't have any deps outside of meego core, either.
Mar 09 19:27:36 <berndhs> Joseph Aloisius Ratzinger
Mar 09 19:27:46 <berndhs> his holiness himself
Mar 09 19:28:32 <ali1234> gabrbedd: so community apps quite often won't be compliant anyway... ok
Mar 09 19:30:00 <gabrbedd> ali1234: Right.  However, I think there's some interest in creating a "meego compliant repository" concept for something like Extras/Surrounds
Mar 09 19:30:23 <ali1234> dunno why anyone would be interested in that...
Mar 09 19:30:38 <ali1234> it would just be like extras/extras testing/extras devel
Mar 09 19:31:15 <ali1234> ie pointless because nothing ever gets to extras and so everyone just enables testing and devel
Mar 09 19:31:29 <gabrbedd> ali1234: Yep, just like extras/surrounds -- but an open spec so that people can provide their own hot-rod repos (something along the lines of Planet CCRMA for Pro Audio packages)
Mar 09 19:32:14 <ali1234> and the reason nothing ever gets to extras is because of the stupid rules about packaging things
Mar 09 19:32:52 <gabrbedd> ali1234: And *that* would be the point of a "spec" for such a repo... you don't need OBS commit access to make/host/develop one.
Mar 09 19:36:17 <ali1234> you don't need any access to make a repo for maemo either :)
Mar 09 19:37:06 <gabrbedd> ali1234: You don't need any to make a repo for MeeGo, either.  :-)
Mar 09 19:37:10 <ali1234> see http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/maemo/fremantle/
Mar 09 19:37:21 <ali1234> yeah i know
Mar 09 19:37:46 <ali1234> but at least on meego you can make what is effectively a ppa if you do have access, and it's much easier :)
Mar 09 19:38:29 <gabrbedd> ali1234: But if you make one... you can't /market/ it for MeeGo (AFAIK) because it doesn't meet any of the things MeeGo *is*.
Mar 09 19:39:13 <berndhs> you can market it for MeeGo, you just can't call it that
Mar 09 19:40:58 <ali1234> well, ok, i have my foss hat on now... i don't care about marketing, i just want to make the software available to people who know what they want, and how to get it
Mar 09 19:41:18 <ali1234> if i am doing something commercial, then of course compliance is the way to go
Mar 09 19:44:29 <gabrbedd> ali1234: IANAL, but if a FLOSS repo says it's a "Add on for MeeGo", I bet there will be problems (a la smeegol).
Mar 09 19:44:48 <ali1234> um, so how will the community repo get around this?
Mar 09 19:45:19 <berndhs> someone could try "Forbidden by MeeGo"
Mar 09 19:45:58 <gabrbedd> ali1234: Right now, they're managing it by rejecting packages.  :-)
Mar 09 19:46:18 <ali1234> so packages must be compliant to go in the community repo or not?
Mar 09 19:46:52 <gabrbedd> ali1234: I dunno... you're the one that said packages were being rejected from Extras for "silly packaging reasons" or some such.
Mar 09 19:47:09 <ali1234> yes, they were
Mar 09 19:47:17 <ali1234> such as "not optified"
Mar 09 19:47:23 <ali1234> is the same true of meego?
Mar 09 19:48:14 <vgrade> TSCHAKeee, did you try the quiet parameter
Mar 09 19:48:16 <gabrbedd> Extras/surrounds *is* meego... that's why you're having to deal with MeeGo QA on it.
Mar 09 19:48:39 <ali1234> gabrbedd: i was refering to maemo before
Mar 09 19:48:59 <gabrbedd> ali1234: OK.
Mar 09 19:49:04 <ali1234> i want to know if meego extras is going to require all packages to be compliant
Mar 09 19:49:17 <ali1234> ie no deps, must be optified
Mar 09 19:49:44 <ali1234> because imo this is what made maemo extras suck (even though there were technical reasons why it had to be done)
Mar 09 19:50:40 <gabrbedd> ali1234: I would think there is some place in Extras/Surrounds for non-compliant apps that are coordinated by the community.
Mar 09 19:50:57 <gabrbedd> ali1234: If not, I'm not sure *I* see the point of Extras/Surrounds. :-)
Mar 09 19:51:00 <ali1234> afaik the technical reasons on meego are much less due to things like btrfs
Mar 09 20:17:42 <GAN900> ali1234, don't think so.
Mar 09 20:23:41 <djszapi> where can I get this package from ? docbook-dtd-xml
Mar 09 20:23:57 <djszapi> Is there any package search engine like in case maemo5, fremantle ?
Mar 09 20:29:00 <Stskeeps> evening wazd
Mar 09 20:34:50 <djszapi> no clue where to get this package from: error: Failed dependencies: docbook-dtd-xml is needed by docbook-style-xsl-1.75.2-6.11.noarch
Mar 09 20:36:40 <djszapi> http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/1.1.90.5.20110301.7/repos/oss/armv7l/packages/noarch/ -> docbook-style-xsl-1.75.2-6.11.noarch, but the dependency of it cannot be found :/
Mar 09 20:38:13 <gabrbedd> djszapi: I see it in builds/trunk/latest/oss...
Mar 09 20:38:31 <djszapi> link, please ?
Mar 09 20:38:49 <gabrbedd> I see it in that repo, too.
Mar 09 20:39:10 <djszapi> docbook-dtd-xml ? odd
Mar 09 20:39:20 <djszapi> it is not displayed here, zypper does not find it either.
Mar 09 20:39:43 <gabrbedd> djszapi: Follow the url you gave ^^
Mar 09 20:39:55 <gabrbedd> djszapi: Also try zypper clean --all
Mar 09 20:40:02 <gabrbedd> and then zypper refresh
Mar 09 20:40:24 <djszapi> well I did not find it there that is why I asked.
Mar 09 20:40:41 <djszapi> it did not change, my eye and ctrl+f dop not find anything
Mar 09 20:40:44 <djszapi> * do
Mar 09 20:42:36 <djszapi> please give me a link, if you find it ?
Mar 09 20:42:58 <gabrbedd> djszapi: Oh, you're wanting docbook-dtd-xml... (last URL looked like you wanted docbook-style-xsl)
Mar 09 20:43:15 <djszapi> no, I want docbook-dtd-xml as said more times.
Mar 09 20:43:20 <djszapi> seems a broken repo ?
Mar 09 20:44:09 <gabrbedd> djszapi: Just a guess:  Perhaps docbook-dtd-xml is replaced by docbook-dtds.
Mar 09 20:44:28 <gabrbedd> Whether it is or not, you should file a bug because it's a broken package.
Mar 09 20:44:36 <djszapi> it is quite broken, yes.
Mar 09 20:44:58 <djszapi> but knowing that my last 2-3 critical bugs were answered either, I lost my sake to report anything
Mar 09 20:45:01 <djszapi> or deal with.
Mar 09 20:45:09 <djszapi> * were not
Mar 09 20:45:28 <gabrbedd> djszapi: It won't get fixed if you don't file a bug.
Mar 09 20:45:37 <djszapi> I do not care any longer ? :)
Mar 09 20:45:53 <djszapi> whether it is fixed or not if they do not care about my critical reports ?
Mar 09 20:49:41 <npm>  anybody got a reference to a "lightbox popout" style window in qml ... i want something that pops out of a button (with a "tunnel" from the originating button) and pops back in when you touch the "tunnel" --  (e.g. i want a youtube video window like i have in -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peC-ABhDEMQ -- to pop out of the thumbnail i have in https://bugs.meego.com/attachment.cgi?id=4861 )
Mar 09 20:50:28 <npm> s/lightbox/telescoping
Mar 09 20:51:30 <djszapi> gabrbedd: which component ?
Mar 09 20:52:47 <djszapi> https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14317
Mar 09 20:52:50 <_MeeeGoBot_> Bug 14317 cri, Undecided, 1.1.90.4, ulf.hofemeier, NEW, Missing docbook-dtd-xml or/and broken docbook-style-xsl
Mar 09 20:55:37 <gabrbedd> djszapi: Looks good. Thanks.  I would have put it in Core OS... but the bug people can change it.
Mar 09 20:56:28 <djszapi> no idea why Core OS...
Mar 09 20:56:55 <lcuk> npm, transition class, specify start dimensions, end dimensions, curve etc?
Mar 09 20:56:56 <djszapi> n900-devel (devel!) does not need it either, how can it be core then ?
Mar 09 20:57:02 <lcuk> or however it should be done in qml
Mar 09 20:58:36 <djszapi> btw, it seems silly package repository can be broken and there is no automated tool for such checks...
Mar 09 20:58:49 <gabrbedd> djszapi: Docbook DTD's is not specific to any UX or application, and is provided as a core part of MeeGo.
Mar 09 20:59:07 <djszapi> n900, n900-devel images do not contain it.
Mar 09 20:59:26 <djszapi> those images miss the core part of MeeGo, what are they then ?
Mar 09 20:59:35 <gabrbedd> djszapi: All the more reason why it's not a "Handset UX" issue.
Mar 09 20:59:59 <djszapi> feel free to reassign really...
Mar 09 21:00:26 <djszapi> well, it happens with me on handset
Mar 09 21:00:36 <djszapi> but it is general, yes.
Mar 09 21:00:53 <djszapi> but for sure, not core.
Mar 09 21:22:47 <qgil> can you recommend a microSD card that is sufficient to run MeeGo? Many reviews online report slowness despite class rating. - see http://identi.ca/notice/66576282
Mar 09 21:23:07 <qgil> for the N900
Mar 09 21:23:33 <TSCHAKeee> it has pretty much shown universal suckage for me too, and i am using class 6 cards
Mar 09 21:24:02 <GAN900> Really makes you miss fullsize SD
Mar 09 21:24:26 <qgil> GAN900: is it really about the size?
Mar 09 21:24:43 <ljp> I think all SD will be slow in the n900
Mar 09 21:24:49 <djszapi> :D:D
Mar 09 21:25:12 <djszapi> ljp: why ?
Mar 09 21:25:17 <GAN900> Well, they don't make microSD cards that push what the fastest fullsize SanDisks do, so I'm forced to assume some correlation. ;)
Mar 09 21:25:18 <ljp> sd is slow
Mar 09 21:25:33 <djszapi> true
Mar 09 21:26:05 <ljp> should be installed to the internal drive...
Mar 09 21:26:14 <ljp> its big enough
Mar 09 21:26:52 <ljp> or, meego needs to reduce it's bloat
Mar 09 21:27:51 <lcuk> ljp, the internal memory is 256mb.
Mar 09 21:27:56 <lcuk> the meego image is 2gb
Mar 09 21:28:37 <ljp> isnt there a 'home' thats gb on th en900?
Mar 09 21:30:40 <lcuk> ljp yeah, but the layout differences are quite drastic and maemo had some pretty ummmm special ways it had to deal with it
Mar 09 21:30:50 <GAN900> ljp, that's eMMC
Mar 09 21:30:59 <GAN900> Slower than a microSD in some cases.
Mar 09 21:30:59 <lcuk> (noted because I was on one of the teams that implemented it)
Mar 09 21:31:28 <tomma> meego image 2gb?
Mar 09 21:31:32 <lcuk> qgil, best thing for a first time is just simply the best you can get
Mar 09 21:31:33 <ljp> then meego needs to get unbloated :)
Mar 09 21:31:40 <lcuk> tomma, 500mb download, expand to 2gb
Mar 09 21:31:58 <tomma> aa true it is whole mmc image
Mar 09 21:33:03 <lcuk> video overview of the maemo rootfs situation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ0oOHdt4Zk
Mar 09 21:35:23 <lcuk> ljp, I think if an analysis of code size for each library (compared iwth functionality) would probably yeald quite some drastic improvements to space and potentially even load time requirements
Mar 09 21:36:04 <ljp> and also what gets installed by default
Mar 09 21:36:05 <GAN900> qgil, just got a KingMax card to boot in my Nook Color. Seems to work OK.
Mar 09 21:44:46 <npm> qgil: i think the suggestion for "class 6" or better should be changed to "class 10" or better.
Mar 09 21:45:37 <qgil> npm: what do I know  :)  Has anybody here got a reasonable satisfactory performance with MeeGo in the N900?
Mar 09 21:46:50 <npm> i got it to work. i wouldn't call the performance satisfactory.
Mar 09 21:47:32 <npm> startup performance seemed particularly bad, but i also recall seeing a report somewhere that meego on n900 was 15% (?) slower than maemo?
Mar 09 21:47:59 <npm> I use http://www.amazon.com/Kingmax-MicroSDHC-Class-Performance-Memory/dp/B003TT23QI
Mar 09 21:49:08 <lcuk> qgil, graphically wise the n900 is capable, however the starting app time currently makes for the most frustration
Mar 09 21:49:24 <lcuk> ie lists and things move once running
Mar 09 21:49:30 <lcuk> and the dashboard moves
Mar 09 21:49:55 <lcuk> I have been blocking on network to get some test software on there to know whether it is os or card
Mar 09 21:50:12 <npm> those with larger budgets should go sandisk not kingmax :-)
Mar 09 21:51:04 <lcuk> speaking of which, I wonder now - bbl
Mar 09 21:51:06 <npm> https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13833
Mar 09 21:51:08 <_MeeeGoBot_> Bug 13833 nor, Undecided, ---, ilkka.koskinen, NEW, N900 operating at 500mhz, 16% slower than Maemo
Mar 09 21:51:19 <npm> ok off by one percent.
Mar 09 21:51:50 <GAN900> npm, indeed.
Mar 09 21:52:27 <lcuk> npm - the original bug said 20% (if you increase speed 20% you get the 600mhz)
Mar 09 21:52:33 * lcuk failed math that day
Mar 09 21:52:36 <mikhas> qgil, no not really - MeeGo on N900 always felt slow
Mar 09 21:52:49 <npm> so what happens if you operate at 600mhz?? do you need to add fins to the n900 so it looks like a 50's cadillac? :-)
Mar 09 21:53:10 <qgil> hi mikhas :)
Mar 09 21:53:34 <mikhas> heya
Mar 09 21:53:58 <mikhas> w00t_, is it correct to use MeeGo ML for sending patches?
Mar 09 21:54:08 <mikhas> no one seems to comment ...
Mar 09 21:54:21 <qgil> thanks guys for the feedback on N900 performance - I will ask Jukka in meego-handset whether the DevEdition also has a target in performance, not only features
Mar 09 21:54:24 <mikhas> I dont even know which component it affects :-)
Mar 09 21:54:38 <mikhas> qgil, need to avoid compositing AFAIK
Mar 09 21:54:45 <npm> there was some speculation in https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7790 regarding warmth correlated to memory speed
Mar 09 21:54:48 <_MeeeGoBot_> Bug 7790 nor, Medium, 1.0.90.4, ilkka.koskinen, ASSI, N900 turns warm quickly after boot
Mar 09 21:55:11 <mikhas> (and try to get this MeeGo graphicssystem running there, perhaps - no clue about the actual status)
Mar 09 21:55:51 <vgrade> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350446170112
Mar 09 21:56:28 <qgil> mikhas: the other day I was thinking whether MeeGo & Harmattan would need Miniature...
Mar 09 21:56:29 <mikhas> also, one could try playing with GL texture cache sizes for MTF apps ...
Mar 09 21:56:39 <mikhas> it runs
Mar 09 21:56:42 <npm> qgil: can you also ask whether dev-edition has video recording and camera functionality (needed for http://code.google.com/p/ytd-meego/ )
Mar 09 21:56:42 <qgil> mikhas: (don't through stones at me)
Mar 09 21:56:47 <mikhas> but it's still useless :-(
Mar 09 21:57:13 <qgil> mikhas: ivanfrade and me had some good times at the bar  :)
Mar 09 21:57:22 <mikhas> I can imagine!
Mar 09 21:57:26 <mikhas> Did it include Berlinale?
Mar 09 21:57:39 <qgil> mikhas: ah, not with me
Mar 09 21:57:58 <qgil> mikhas: I mean at the bar with Miniature  :)
Mar 09 21:58:12 <mikhas> ehehe
Mar 09 21:58:24 <mikhas> yeah, feature request: add tracker support =p
Mar 09 21:58:38 <mikhas> It *must* be that.
Mar 09 21:59:12 <mikhas> npm, do we have a bug where we could speculate a bit about performance?
Mar 09 21:59:13 <w00t_> mikhas: it's correct, yes
Mar 09 21:59:17 <mikhas> (in general)
Mar 09 21:59:18 <w00t_> feedback sometimes takes a while
Mar 09 21:59:59 <npm> mikhas: i think the speculation is in the bug-cloud but it might make sense to have a meta-bug
Mar 09 22:00:23 <mikhas> w00t_, ok - so how would find the repo that your patch targets?
Mar 09 22:00:38 <mikhas> npm, perhaps - would you report such bug then?
Mar 09 22:01:04 <w00t_> mikhas: that bit, I have no idea about, I can tell you if you're curious
Mar 09 22:01:07 <mikhas> I will talk to some MTF guys tomorrow then, ask for direct feedback on that back
Mar 09 22:01:07 <npm> i think i need to give myself a bug-reporting timeout (like a small child) due to excessive crankiness in recent reporting :-)
Mar 09 22:01:26 <mikhas> w00t_, just thinking it would be nice in general to have the context
Mar 09 22:01:31 <mikhas> :-)
Mar 09 22:02:11 * w00t_ successfully fixes a stupid bug in meego-handset-email
Mar 09 22:05:58 <npm> qgil: have you seen my QML eye-candy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peC-ABhDEMQ
Mar 09 22:06:24 <npm> with special subliminal "finland rocks" theme
Mar 09 22:10:20 <qgil> npm: I note3d that - even if I don't share your musical tastes  ;)  I find the demo cool - wel done!
Mar 09 22:10:23 <timeless_w7ip> thiago: sms(s) sent. please ack
Mar 09 22:10:49 <timeless_w7ip> err, thiago_helsinki :)
Mar 09 22:11:57 <qgil> thiago_helsinki ? can it be that he is sleeping?  :)
Mar 09 22:12:10 <w00t_> thiago never sleeps
Mar 09 22:12:17 <timeless_w7ip> qgil: well, i met up w/ him for dinner about half an hour ago
Mar 09 22:12:23 * w00t_ tries to come up with a suitable chuck norris joke involving thiago
Mar 09 22:12:39 <mikhas> you will fail
Mar 09 22:12:56 <qgil> timeless_w7ip: "w7ip" stands for...?
Mar 09 22:13:20 <timeless_w7ip> windows 7 ideapad
Mar 09 22:13:26 <javispedro> hah, yet another meegoer who thinks he might be using a windows phone ;)
Mar 09 22:13:27 <timeless_w7ip> the Dublin computer :)
Mar 09 22:13:37 <npm> qgil: i'm changing it to one video per page which start/stop when you change the page... and it runs off a feed so i call it "feedbook"
Mar 09 22:13:40 <timeless_w7ip> no, that'd be _wp7
Mar 09 22:13:57 <mikhas> that would the device reference though
Mar 09 22:13:57 <npm> so no more demos consisting of H.I.M. videos :-)
Mar 09 22:13:59 <mikhas> *miss
Mar 09 22:14:22 <qgil> npm: just sayin'
Mar 09 22:15:06 <npm> :-)
Mar 09 22:15:16 <mikhas> qgil, my current project is #meego-inputmethods
Mar 09 22:16:22 <qgil> H.I.M. = Hassleman's Input Methods?
Mar 09 22:16:31 <gabrbedd> npm: Nice video.  Was there any audio?
Mar 09 22:16:42 * gabrbedd didn't hear audio in video
Mar 09 22:16:55 <npm> yeah, it came out in a giant blorp at the end (recordmydesktop bug)
Mar 09 22:17:31 <npm> oh wait... the first version with bad audio came out all green in youtube
Mar 09 22:17:43 <npm> so i re-recorded in qmlviewer and it didn't have audio
Mar 09 22:18:03 <gabrbedd> npm: ok, just checking.
Mar 09 22:18:20 <npm> if i wanted to spend more time recording than coding, i'd have rewired phonon from qmlviewer into jack, and then recorded that w/ proper sync
Mar 09 22:18:40 <gabrbedd> you lost me at phonon.
Mar 09 22:18:42 <gabrbedd> :-p
Mar 09 22:18:57 <npm> what you know jack :-)
Mar 09 22:19:22 <npm> oh i recorded that on my desktop
Mar 09 22:19:34 <npm> so phonon is available via kde
Mar 09 22:19:40 <npm> (wish it were in meego )
Mar 09 22:20:28 <gabrbedd> AFAIK, adding a jack backend to phonon requires hacking qt... and phonon is deprecated, anyway.
Mar 09 22:20:38 <thiago_helsinki> qgil: who's sleeping?
Mar 09 22:20:46 <thiago_helsinki> timeless_w7ip: received
Mar 09 22:21:11 <thiago_helsinki> timeless_w7ip: do you know what time they open?
Mar 09 22:21:20 <gabrbedd> that is... qt's phonon.
Mar 09 22:21:24 <npm> gabrbedd: i don't think so... i have a jack backend to phonon on my desktop by default
Mar 09 22:21:32 <npm> it's one of the big advantages
Mar 09 22:22:35 <npm> you can bypass pulseaudio for specific apps and have them route straight to jack, or a specific device
Mar 09 22:24:14 <gabrbedd> npm: OK.  it's still deprecated in Qt, though.
Mar 09 22:24:25 <npm> i guess it's through gstreamer actually: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peC-ABhDEMQ
Mar 09 22:24:29 <npm> doh
Mar 09 22:24:32 <npm> wrong link
Mar 09 22:24:37 <npm> http://jackaudio.org/gstreamer_via_jack
Mar 09 22:24:38 <timeless_w7ip> thiago: hrm
Mar 09 22:25:15 <timeless_w7ip> offhand i suspect they're something like 9-1
Mar 09 22:25:15 <npm> and it's not really default as its part of "bad" plugins.
Mar 09 22:25:58 <timeless_w7ip> yep
Mar 09 22:27:03 <npm> of course bad plugins are default for any system i use via https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14129
Mar 09 22:27:06 <_MeeeGoBot_> Bug 14129 maj, Undecided, ---, yan.yin, NEW, DumbUser says "MeeGo is broken I can't watch my videos, hear my music, or receive podcasts and there
Mar 09 22:28:11 * timeless_w7ip ends up doing a lot of corporate stuff from home
Mar 09 22:28:17 <timeless_w7ip> the disadvantages of vpn access
Mar 09 22:35:50 <lcuk> anyone know why zypper would fail "cannot resolve host 'diwnload.meego.com'" yet from the same console I can ping that server
Mar 09 22:35:56 <lcuk> download ^
Mar 09 22:36:44 <mihero> zypper has some proxy settings?
Mar 09 22:36:59 <lcuk> i dunno
Mar 09 22:37:12 <lcuk> this is the furthest I have gotten with usb networking
Mar 09 22:39:00 <gabrbedd> lcuk: I think some parts of RMC get redirected to DMC.
Mar 09 22:39:12 <gabrbedd> lcuk: Perhaps it's a part of the "planned outage" ?
Mar 09 22:39:28 <lcuk> gabrbedd, I can ping it
Mar 09 22:39:33 <lcuk> it responds
Mar 09 22:39:44 <lcuk> at the very least it indicates zypper bug in the message
Mar 09 22:40:15 <gabrbedd> erm... downtime is unrelated...
Mar 09 22:41:07 <gabrbedd> Looks like the server is down... or pwn3d
Mar 09 22:41:33 <gabrbedd> this doesn't look normal to me:  http://download.meego.com/
Mar 09 22:42:00 <lcuk> reasonable gabrbedd
Mar 09 22:42:15 <gabrbedd> ...but I don't visit that page often... so dunno.
Mar 09 22:42:16 <lcuk> shall take it that is what is happening the
Mar 09 22:42:20 <lcuk> n
Mar 09 22:42:35 * lcuk mehs and carries on playing on netbook for a bit
Mar 09 22:43:07 <gabrbedd> Dawn's not here... so I'm guessing there's no hope and that the wheels are falling off.
Mar 09 22:43:45 <lcuk> nahh the Intelians are i nthe hills
Mar 09 22:44:01 <qgil> mikhas: following the Tracker discussion in meego-dev - perhaps the Tracker upstream project could offer maintainers for the related packages?
Mar 09 22:44:25 <gabrbedd> lcuk: In a bomb-proof compound?
Mar 09 22:44:33 <lcuk> gabrbedd, camping
Mar 09 22:44:42 <lcuk> or some such
Mar 09 22:45:41 <mikhas> qgil, you mean take over neglected products in MeeGo?
Mar 09 22:45:49 <gabrbedd> lcuk: yep :-)
Mar 09 22:46:00 <qgil> all in all it looks like Arjan & co are concerned about components "pushed by Nokia" in the past and without clear maintainership/future now but there are two main categories of those
Mar 09 22:46:30 <gabrbedd> qgil: Who should be notified if we think download.meego.com is down?
Mar 09 22:46:34 <qgil> projects that are developed by Nokia alone, currently not used anywhere else, and upstream components used in other places etc etc (like Tracker)
Mar 09 22:47:33 <qgil> gabrbedd: mrshaver but he is offline apparently - meego-community?
Mar 09 22:47:35 <thiago_helsinki> tracker isn't the problem; it's the stuff that saves the data in tracker
Mar 09 22:48:54 <gabrbedd> qgil: Thank you.
Mar 09 22:49:12 <qgil> thiago_helsinki: as usual I don't even get into the technical details  ;) What I mean is that now is a good time for many upstream projects to step in and propose to become maintainers of "their" packages, and establish a direct dialog with the MeeGo program
Mar 09 22:50:12 <mikhas> agree
Mar 09 22:51:28 <mikhas> it's just not a very motivating way to ask for that
Mar 09 22:52:33 <qgil> mikhas: agree... and I don't have a better answer
Mar 09 22:54:32 <mikhas> all I can say is, as someone working on Harmattan, that the future for our product lies within MeeGo
Mar 09 22:54:59 <mikhas> but if the doors to get into MeeGo are suddenly closed, well, then you cannot really blame the Harmattan guys anymore.
Mar 09 22:55:15 <mikhas> Not that anyone would really care about such details.
Mar 09 22:55:42 <mikhas> But Harmattan != MeeGo became a self-fulfilling prophecy, sadly
Mar 09 22:56:05 <mikhas> repeat it often enough, and people dont even try to change that any longer
Mar 09 22:56:56 <mikhas> ("our product" = meego inputmethods, just to be clear)
Mar 09 22:57:22 <mikhas> </opinion>
Mar 09 23:00:46 <lcuk> mikhas, why have the doors closed?
Mar 09 23:01:50 <mikhas> for the H contacts team, they have
Mar 09 23:02:37 <mikhas> and well, I can read Arjan's reply to my API changes announcement as a threat, too, if I was in a bad mood
Mar 09 23:02:55 <lcuk> So MeeGo is allowed to have multiple window managers, multiple toolkits, multiple misc components, but only 1 contact back end?
Mar 09 23:03:06 <mikhas> (context: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2011-March/481870.html)
Mar 09 23:03:10 <lcuk> I read
Mar 09 23:03:11 <qgil> mikhas: yes and yes but
Mar 09 23:03:33 <mikhas> we are battered enough, we dont need more downers
Mar 09 23:03:50 <qgil> mikhas: there is a lot of stress. the normal stress when final releases are approaching + the feb11 stress + the future stress...
Mar 09 23:03:53 <lcuk> mikhas, fine, then let the rest of the contacts speak for you
Mar 09 23:03:55 <mikhas> we will simply give up, that's it
Mar 09 23:04:16 <qgil> mikhas: now, let's step back and let's look at the Linux & freedesktop standard stack
Mar 09 23:04:31 <qgil> the one that was there before, and will be there after
Mar 09 23:04:46 <qgil> mikhas: do you think your project has a place there? y/n
Mar 09 23:05:05 <qgil> if y, then the discussion of this week will be an anecdote
Mar 09 23:05:11 <qgil> if n, then why bother
Mar 09 23:05:11 <mikhas> yes, personally I am convinced of that
Mar 09 23:05:35 <mikhas> but it takes *my* energy to make that true, eventually
Mar 09 23:05:59 <lcuk> mikhas, and the energy of many people around here too
Mar 09 23:07:04 <lcuk> this week, I have seen more teamwork and actual progress on the public codestack than at any other time
Mar 09 23:07:26 <lcuk> in the #meego-arm channel people have been crosstalking on multiple subjects all day long
Mar 09 23:08:10 <lcuk> real solid changes, from seeing the first high resolution smooth movie taken with the camera
Mar 09 23:08:22 <lcuk> through the harpfp builds working
Mar 09 23:09:19 <lcuk> mikhas, I have seen araujo and your maliit guys push through the VKB updates so now all applications on the n900 support it
Mar 09 23:09:56 <mikhas> lcuk, and do you think this happend because Nokia said we should do that?
Mar 09 23:10:15 <lcuk> mikhas, it happened because we all got a kick up the backside.
Mar 09 23:10:25 <lcuk> Thomas Edison “Restlessness and discontent are the first necessities of progress.”
Mar 09 23:10:32 <npm> lcuk: what hires movie w/ camera??? which release
Mar 09 23:10:38 <npm> me want
Mar 09 23:10:52 <lcuk> npm, hold on, it was a passing link
Mar 09 23:10:58 <lcuk> the amount of activity has been staggering actually
Mar 09 23:11:02 <lcuk> it has been hard to keep up
Mar 09 23:11:47 <lcuk> ahh I closed my browser
Mar 09 23:11:48 <npm> lcuk: thx... must go now to pickup son from school
Mar 09 23:12:01 <lcuk> ask again tomorrow npm, someone will find it
Mar 09 23:13:56 <lcuk> evening anidel \o
Mar 09 23:14:03 <lcuk> and rodarvus__ :)
Mar 09 23:15:00 <CosmoHill> lcuk: this sums up my feelings for my disseration / windows server
Mar 09 23:15:01 <CosmoHill> http://black-flag.co.uk/files/Windows%20Server%202008-2011-03-09-23-11-13.png
Mar 09 23:15:41 <lcuk> CosmoHill, but Windows server is actually quite nice I believe?
Mar 09 23:15:51 <lcuk> though that message annoyed me every time I had to fill it in
Mar 09 23:16:02 <CosmoHill> it doesn't like me
Mar 09 23:16:07 <gabrbedd> CosmoHill: hahahaha!  Love it!
Mar 09 23:16:54 <lcuk> did anyone by chance mirror the download.meego.com server?
Mar 09 23:17:08 <CosmoHill> I installed 2008 R2 to all the nodes only to find out it's formatted linux
Mar 09 23:17:15 <CosmoHill> lcuk: what file are you after?
Mar 09 23:17:30 <lcuk> CosmoHill, check the server..
Mar 09 23:17:38 <lcuk> http://download.meego.com/
Mar 09 23:17:40 <CosmoHill> oh
Mar 09 23:17:45 <CosmoHill> where's the rest of it?
Mar 09 23:18:00 <anidel> evening lcuk
Mar 09 23:18:39 <berndhs> lcuk: optimized out a lot of things ?
Mar 09 23:18:46 <lcuk> haha
Mar 09 23:19:02 <lcuk> yeah, the meego build now fits on the rootfs again :P
Mar 09 23:19:20 <rodarvus> lcuk, hey there :)
Mar 09 23:21:04 <CosmoHill> lcuk: http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/meego/
Mar 09 23:21:10 <CosmoHill> have a rummage around there
Mar 09 23:21:22 * gabrbedd sent email to meego-community about DMC
Mar 09 23:21:33 <lcuk> oooh, you have an n8x0 folder
Mar 09 23:22:01 * lcuk gets quite a number of emails from n810 users
Mar 09 23:22:20 <CosmoHill> it's a copy of stuff from Stskeeps' server
Mar 09 23:22:48 <lcuk> CosmoHill, lol
Mar 09 23:23:18 <lcuk> did you not copy his pron folder, or is it still copying?
Mar 09 23:23:44 <CosmoHill> said something about not being enough space
Mar 09 23:24:05 <lcuk> heh
Mar 09 23:24:18 <CosmoHill> with a n8x0, why would you need popcorn
Mar 09 23:24:18 <lcuk> unfortunately though, I was looking for a package/repo cache/mirror
Mar 09 23:25:09 <CosmoHill> oh, I should be getting a new casing for my phone tomorrow :)
Mar 09 23:25:47 <lcuk> awesome
Mar 09 23:26:00 <lcuk> titanium?
Mar 09 23:26:28 <CosmoHill> that would be nice but also tempting to throw at people
Mar 09 23:27:03 <lcuk> heh
Mar 09 23:27:26 <lcuk> I watched a Magnum episode the other night, it had ninjas in.  that show just gets more and more awesome.
Mar 09 23:27:35 <CosmoHill> this is a major draw back of recieving bad news via text
Mar 09 23:28:12 <lcuk> eek
Mar 09 23:29:26 <CosmoHill> however the 6200 classic isn't that well built and would explain why the rear casing doesn't fit, the front is held on with tap and the select and exit keys are missing so I have to use my nails
Mar 09 23:30:20 <lcuk> CosmoHill, that phone sounds like my old car.
Mar 09 23:30:30 <CosmoHill> don't get me started on the car
Mar 09 23:30:36 <lcuk> haha
Mar 09 23:30:40 <w00t_> I used to have a metal phone case
Mar 09 23:30:45 <w00t_> worked great for when I dropped it etc
Mar 09 23:31:11 <CosmoHill> when I say casing, I don't mean a protective casing to go around the phone
Mar 09 23:31:22 <lcuk> ok CosmoHill - pics please.
Mar 09 23:31:22 <CosmoHill> I mean the one that the PCB goes in]
Mar 09 23:31:34 <lcuk> I have heard you mention this phone for ages
Mar 09 23:31:38 <lcuk> but never seen it.
Mar 09 23:31:43 <CosmoHill> hold on
Mar 09 23:36:05 <lcuk> gabrbedd, bug time?
Mar 09 23:36:48 <CosmoHill> http://black-flag.co.uk/files/phone-1.jpg
Mar 09 23:36:51 <CosmoHill> http://black-flag.co.uk/files/phone-2.jpg
Mar 09 23:38:06 <lcuk> CosmoHill, I think 495 geek just slashdotted your server
Mar 09 23:38:19 <CosmoHill> what?
Mar 09 23:38:35 <CosmoHill> it's only a P3 on a home connection, it will die
Mar 09 23:38:59 <javispedro> call the fire brigade
Mar 09 23:39:01 <lcuk> heh
Mar 09 23:39:25 <lcuk> CosmoHill, the faux tape sidegrips added by Nokia are interesting embelishments to the design
Mar 09 23:39:40 <CosmoHill> damn thing holes the + button down
Mar 09 23:39:43 <CosmoHill> holds*
Mar 09 23:39:58 <qgil> CosmoHill: I just took a sample of your DNA from that pic
Mar 09 23:41:01 <CosmoHill> don't say things like that, this years lectures have made me paranoid a bit
Mar 09 23:41:39 <CosmoHill> I'll take a take the same pic tomorrow only with the new casing
Mar 09 23:42:06 <CosmoHill> you can just see in the bottom right on the keypad that the back doesn't fit
Mar 09 23:43:16 <SpeedEvil> Have you tried to hammer it on better?
Mar 09 23:43:33 <CosmoHill> I've thrown it at the floor and smacked it on a few desks
Mar 09 23:43:39 <lcuk> I feel quite convinced that would make matters worse.
Mar 09 23:43:49 <CosmoHill> makes me feel better tho
Mar 09 23:44:22 <lcuk> heh
Mar 09 23:45:07 <CosmoHill> actually got a very nice depth of field in that pictures
Mar 09 23:45:38 <lcuk> yes, you can clearly see from the top to the base of your fingerprint.
Mar 09 23:46:24 <CosmoHill> not anymore you can't
Mar 09 23:47:18 <lcuk> lol
Mar 09 23:47:56 <lcuk> CosmoHill, I posted this after returning from FOSDEM
Mar 09 23:47:58 <lcuk> http://liqbase.net/20110206_005.jpg
Mar 09 23:48:08 <lcuk> it is a little cup made with a reprap machine
Mar 09 23:48:21 <lcuk> I took the closeup to see the detail left on the cup
Mar 09 23:48:28 <CosmoHill> is that a cross between a printer and a glue gun?
Mar 09 23:48:34 <lcuk> yes
Mar 09 23:48:41 <lcuk> good description
Mar 09 23:48:58 <CosmoHill> my mum has a cuter which I call a printer that knifes things
Mar 09 23:49:51 <lcuk> http://www.cakescookiesandcraftsshop.co.uk/acatalog/tall-penguin-cookie-cutter-.jpg
Mar 09 23:53:19 <CosmoHill> you know, if I gave my mum a picture of tux, she could cut it out in the colours and assemble it
Mar 09 23:54:02 <lcuk> your mum is officially awesome then.
Mar 09 23:55:20 <CosmoHill> ooo oo, it's a SVG graphics too, that means it scales :D
Mar 09 23:55:52 <CosmoHill> she could use some white A3 has the base and have a massive tux on the front
Mar 09 23:58:01 <lcuk> lol CosmoHill
Mar 09 23:58:27 <lcuk> all this talk of cutout penguins reminds me of my mums at christmas a couple of years ago
Mar 09 23:58:32 <lcuk> http://liqbase.net/liq.snowman.afro.20091225_017.jpg
Mar 09 23:58:54 <CosmoHill> hehe that's awesome
Mar 09 23:58:58 <lcuk> the afro is santas beard
Mar 09 23:59:12 <CosmoHill> I'm trying to work out if they are eatable
Mar 09 23:59:32 <lcuk> they were jelly things, but did not try
Mar 09 23:59:54 <lcuk> we were screwing round with them all night
Mar 10 00:00:03 <lcuk> she had put them up everywhere
Mar 10 00:00:04 <lcuk> http://liqbase.net/liq.christmas.anagram.20091225_018.jpg
Mar 10 00:00:47 <CosmoHill> cool
Mar 10 00:01:18 <lcuk> before I left that night, I went around the house and put them all over
Mar 10 00:01:34 <lcuk> we found one recently and giggled ;)
Mar 10 00:02:48 <CosmoHill> oh I see the bear in the picture, makes more sense now
Mar 10 00:03:24 <CosmoHill> http://black-flag.co.uk/files/73k-tachometer.jpg
Mar 10 00:03:42 <CosmoHill> I have a nice habit of looking down and there being something nice on the dial, like 111
Mar 10 00:05:43 <lcuk> hah
Mar 10 00:06:08 <lcuk> i think my old car got over 100k miles
Mar 10 00:06:20 <CosmoHill> it has 76K atm
Mar 10 00:06:27 <CosmoHill> my friend has 120K on a 2003 focus :/
Mar 10 00:06:45 <lcuk> hh
Mar 10 00:06:55 <CosmoHill> my other friend had 200K on their old pug
Mar 10 00:09:11 <CosmoHill> my car has done....64K over 14 years
Mar 10 00:10:39 <CosmoHill> every time I top up petrol has increased in price :(
Mar 10 00:11:40 <lcuk> 0.521508136 mph
Mar 10 00:11:54 <CosmoHill> faster than my love life
Mar 10 00:11:57 <lcuk> are you sure you put the handbrake on.
Mar 10 00:12:49 <CosmoHill> I once managed to put my car fully into reverse without using the clutch, if the handbrake wasn't on I'd of had movement
Mar 10 00:13:09 <CosmoHill> instead of lurked and stalled
Mar 10 00:13:16 <lcuk> CosmoHill, I slipped a disk once and had to drive without clutch
Mar 10 00:13:43 <CosmoHill> hmm, doable but hard
Mar 10 00:13:51 <CosmoHill> kudos tho
Mar 10 00:14:31 <lcuk> heh
Mar 10 00:14:31 <CosmoHill> I was did an emergency stop and got overtaken by a BMW within seconds -.-
Mar 10 00:14:31 <CosmoHill> once*
Mar 10 00:14:52 <lcuk> eep
Mar 10 00:15:33 <lcuk> at least they missed you
Mar 10 00:17:34 <lcuk> anyway, gnite CosmoHill \o
Mar 10 00:17:36 <CosmoHill> cyas
Mar 10 00:42:36 <CosmoHill> night night
Mar 10 00:42:44 <berndhs> night
Mar 10 01:21:41 <TSCHAKeee> are there any kernel module package rpms in meego?
Mar 10 01:21:50 <TSCHAKeee> %kernel_module_package macro doesn't work here
Mar 10 01:21:59 <TSCHAKeee> sure wish you fuckers would actually standardize on SPEC file tags
Mar 10 01:22:03 <TSCHAKeee> would be nice
Mar 10 01:54:15 <TSCHAKeee> aaarrrgggghhhhh
Mar 10 02:00:02 <vgrade> TSCHAKeee, evening
Mar 10 02:00:08 <TSCHAKeee> hey
Mar 10 02:00:19 <TSCHAKeee> am trying to buid broadcom sta as an RPM
Mar 10 02:00:29 <TSCHAKeee> and ready to jump out a window
Mar 10 02:00:44 <TSCHAKeee> is there an existing src.rpm of a kernel module that can be used?
Mar 10 02:00:45 <vgrade> I thought that was you falling :)
Mar 10 02:01:19 <TSCHAKeee> it's the only thing left for me to do to get the archos 9 target working
Mar 10 02:01:20 <vgrade> from day 1 MeeGo architecturally has not allowed kernel modules
Mar 10 02:01:28 <TSCHAKeee> fuck
Mar 10 02:01:34 <TSCHAKeee> what the hell am I supposed to do?
Mar 10 02:01:39 <vgrade> don't shoot the messenger
Mar 10 02:02:01 <TSCHAKeee> i need working broadcom support
Mar 10 02:02:25 <vgrade> have you seen slaines page?
Mar 10 02:02:44 <TSCHAKeee> with the old module? I'm not even sure that will work anymore
Mar 10 02:04:18 <vgrade> I was just pointing to that so you could use the procedure
Mar 10 02:04:25 <vgrade> http://slaine.org/_slaine/Software.html
Mar 10 02:08:07 <vgrade> http://www.mail-archive.com/meego-packaging@meego.com/msg00592.html
Mar 10 02:10:02 <vgrade> http://wiki.meego.com/Tips_on_compiling_and_packaging_kernels_in_MeeGo
Mar 10 02:10:58 <TSCHAKeee> really that is insanely unrealistic to not allow this.
Mar 10 02:14:20 <vgrade> Don't know enough to comment why Arjan does not want ko's on Meego
Mar 10 02:14:51 <vgrade> You should be able to build on the device though
Mar 10 02:17:33 <TSCHAKeee> not good enough
Mar 10 02:17:39 <TSCHAKeee> but i'll deal with it
Mar 10 02:19:04 <vgrade> http://dev.openaos.org/browser/trunk/meego/archos9/src?rev=338, here you go :)
Mar 10 02:34:19 <TSCHAKeee> got it built
Mar 10 02:34:22 <TSCHAKeee> HA
Mar 10 02:34:44 <TSCHAKeee> thank you arbitrarily decided decision for wasting 6 hours of my life
Mar 10 02:34:48 <TSCHAKeee> thanks
Mar 10 02:34:50 <TSCHAKeee> ;)
Mar 10 02:36:38 <jyaworski> Has anyone had luck installing meego on an ASUS 1012?
Mar 10 02:37:32 <jyaworski> It gets to the boot screen. Going past that, the screen goes blank.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Mar 10 02:59:57 2011