**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Mar 18 02:59:57 2011 Mar 18 05:39:11 good morning Mar 18 05:52:18 hi guys morning Mar 18 05:52:28 goodmorning Mar 18 05:52:41 i am a new guy to meego can anyone tell the installation process of meego Mar 18 05:52:49 which vertical? handset, netbook, etc? Mar 18 05:53:14 handset Stskeeps Mar 18 05:53:29 that really varies then - most people just write the system to SD card Mar 18 05:54:46 i am a web developer though meego is a new os and i want to develop mobile applications using meego Mar 18 05:55:29 then you may need the handset-ia32-mtf images Mar 18 05:55:32 right, then i would advise you to look at Qt SDK and QML then Mar 18 05:55:50 ok Mar 18 06:02:11 Stskeeps there is no simulator devices in the sdl like in android Mar 18 06:02:16 sdk* Mar 18 06:02:35 there is Mar 18 06:03:07 ok Mar 18 06:08:47 怎么取消ubuntu里的F1 键绑定的 HELP文档,和vim的F1 冲突 Mar 18 06:08:58 sorry , wrong Mar 18 06:09:25 Evanescence: charset troubles? Mar 18 06:17:47 slonopotamus: no, Em,, wrong channel , so wrong input Mar 18 06:33:54 from where i can download "meego-1.2-sdk-ia32-toolchain-1.0-linux i686.tar.gz " Mar 18 06:34:09 it is required for my meego target update Mar 18 06:44:46 argh Mar 18 06:45:13 I'm just getting segmentation faults with qemu when trying to run meego-handset-ia32 images Mar 18 06:52:25 mad remote -r meego-handset-ia32-qemu-1.1.2-runtime poweron Mar 18 06:53:06 shows the emulator window, starts loading stuff and then qemugl segfaults :( Mar 18 06:57:33 Any idea.. from where can i get meego-1.2-sdk-ia32-toolchain-1.0-linux_i686.tar.gz Mar 18 06:57:47 not able to find on repo Mar 18 06:58:06 can some one point to its exact location Mar 18 07:05:53 bkalinga: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=meego-1.2-sdk-ia32-toolchain-1.0-linux_i686.tar.gz+-meego.gitorious.org Mar 18 07:05:58 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.meego.sdk/1038 Mar 18 07:07:56 timeless_w7ip: http://download3.meego.com/meego-1.2-sdk-ia32-toolchain-1.0-w32_i686.tar.gz gives error code Mar 18 07:08:09 so thought it was removed from there Mar 18 07:08:52 bkalinga: did you consider reading the mailing list? Mar 18 07:09:01 really.... reading is a requirement Mar 18 07:09:20 you mean archives? Mar 18 07:09:37 i mean the one thread i cited just for you Mar 18 07:09:57 which you would have found had you searched for the file you can't find... Mar 18 07:10:08 as in the lmgtfy.com link above Mar 18 07:11:14 sorry i did not open the second link..i thought of the link u posted for some one else in some other context :) Mar 18 07:17:30 spot the Meego device from the Birmingham meetup, http://twitpic.com/4afoh2 Mar 18 07:17:47 can you get them all? Mar 18 07:19:44 vgrade: i hope the mbp is running meego ;-) Mar 18 07:20:35 i can't recognize the laptop that's sitting behind the ideapad at the very top right corner, but i hope it too is running meego ;-) Mar 18 07:21:17 laptops not included :) Mar 18 07:24:02 N900, O2 Joggler, Advent Vega, WeTab, ExoPc Mar 18 07:25:48 http://pastebin.com/ireh0PMP Mar 18 07:26:08 Can not find '/usr/lib/madde/linux-i686/cache/meego-1.2-sdk-ia32-toolchain-1.0-linux_i686.tar.gz' -- no such file. Mar 18 07:26:40 still i am not able to locate this file in http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/ Mar 18 07:27:11 oh geez... didnt see the n900 at first vgrade the pegatron is massive Mar 18 07:27:29 did you *read* the thread?? Mar 18 07:28:05 lofty306: rule of thumb, look for things that glow :) Mar 18 07:28:15 thus my first query about the mbp :) Mar 18 07:28:22 i thought it was a buisness card rack Mar 18 07:28:23 (the apple logo is supposed to glow) Mar 18 07:29:28 prab haas tooo many pints Mar 18 07:30:05 ok i gotta wakeup Mar 18 07:33:07 timeless_w7ip:Search for "sysroot" and update to latest available sysroot: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/1.1.90.3.20110215.10/handset/images/meego-handset-ia32-madde-sysroot/meego-handset-ia32-madde-sysroot-1.1.90.3.20110215.10-fs.tar.gz Mar 18 07:33:17 you want me to do this step Mar 18 07:33:22 * timeless_w7ip shrugs Mar 18 07:33:31 someone wants me to go to work and attend a meeting Mar 18 07:33:39 ok Mar 18 07:33:50 i have no specific wants for you beyond "google first, ask questions later [after reading results]" Mar 18 07:34:18 * lofty306 throws the sdk update target script at bkalinga and a new sysroot Mar 18 07:34:40 sure.. but all ready tried that this set-up is really cumbersome :) Mar 18 07:35:35 the reading google results part? Mar 18 07:42:23 ...cache/madde.conf.d/meego-core-ia32-trunk.conf contains "file meego-1.2-sdk-ia32-toolchain-1.0-w32_i686.tar.gz Mar 18 07:42:24 url http://download3.meego.com/meego-1.2-sdk-ia32-toolchain-1.0-w32_i686.tar.gz" Mar 18 07:43:03 i am not getting what shall the replace that url with as i don't see that file in repo.meego.com Mar 18 07:44:48 bkalinga: so you ran the script? Mar 18 07:44:56 yes Mar 18 07:45:31 http://pastebin.com/tPwH2ZK9 Mar 18 07:48:01 Myrtti: ls usr/lib/madde/linux-i686/cache/madde.conf.d : http://pastebin.com/hjdxyumc Mar 18 07:48:40 do you see any file i need to change for its sysroot as suggested by timeless_w7ip: Mar 18 07:49:15 did I appear as I'd know anything about the subject? sorry, I don't. Mar 18 07:50:24 ok...you asked whether i ran the script...so thought you will be knowing...no problem thanks Mar 18 08:08:48 lcuk; so ... how well do you know obs? Mar 18 08:09:07 i'm wondering how much control we'd have over obs Mar 18 08:09:35 because... if i could alter obs such that during the prep stage, any of a set of commands triggered a magic trigger first before doing what it wanted Mar 18 08:09:54 i could probably change obs such that it automatically created dvcs revisions for packages as it went Mar 18 08:09:57 something like: Mar 18 08:10:55 grab rpm, source, extract, calculate dvcs repo, clone repo (no update), prepare-for-prep-by-tainting-env, %prep Mar 18 08:11:27 if a taintained command happens trigger dvcs-magic-commit + untaint env + trigger actual command Mar 18 08:11:47 after prep, dvcs-magic-commit (if not triggered before) + untaint env Mar 18 08:12:02 if the build succeeds, push dvcs changeset Mar 18 08:12:50 dvcs magic commit which set the working directory parent to the 'best match' based on the version from the spec file without doing an actual checkout Mar 18 08:13:00 and then commit with a commit message based on the package version Mar 18 08:13:27 done this way, we'd get patched sources and could watch deltas Mar 18 08:13:51 we could even do one better by having the system do an initial import if it can't find the right dvcs repo Mar 18 08:14:11 so we'd get pristine-commit, patched-1, patched-2, ... Mar 18 08:14:29 it wouldn't properly recognize when the baseline changes, but i think it'd mostly work Mar 18 08:14:54 and we could for meego do even better in that iiuc, the base version of a package is supposed to change when you pull a new upstream Mar 18 08:15:28 so it could do a pristine-commit-1 over pristine-commit when it detects that case before triggering the %prep stuff Mar 18 08:15:57 ok, so... now i kinda want someone who actually knows something about obs ;) Mar 18 08:22:47 aww, we don't use lvm Mar 18 08:23:35 not much need on devices where you can't add disks Mar 18 08:23:49 besides, btrfs does many of the things we used to need lvm for Mar 18 09:05:28 thiago: well, if i want to file bugs about it, it's hard if i you guys don't host it :) Mar 18 09:16:28 23: Can't open /usr/lib/madde/linux-i686/madlib/madlib.sh error coming if i remove meego1.1 and try installing meego1.2 Test release Mar 18 09:19:35 timeless_office: sorry, what? Mar 18 09:20:02 thiago; i'm filing bugs about random crappy code Mar 18 09:20:19 i can't file bugs to bugs.meego.com about random crappy code in module X if meego doesn't use randy crappy module X :) Mar 18 09:44:16 Can't open /usr/lib/madde/linux-i686/madlib/madlib.sh error while trying to install meego1.2 Test release Mar 18 09:44:30 anyone faced this problem Mar 18 10:00:38 what time today do submissions to the MeeGo CFP for San Fran Conf have to be in by? Mar 18 10:04:32 lcuk: thiago's bedtime Mar 18 10:05:03 lbt haha - so if people want longer they should also mail cups of coffee to him Mar 18 10:05:41 "Submissions will be due by 11:59 PM Pacific Time on March 18, 2011" Mar 18 10:07:03 lbt: that's in about 24 h, right? :) Mar 18 10:07:35 ~22h I think Mar 18 10:08:26 thiago: ping Mar 18 10:09:10 lbt: pong Mar 18 10:09:41 we've agreed to postpone the deadline, but we haven't announced it yet Mar 18 10:10:08 OK Mar 18 10:10:23 lcuk, I sent mine today Mar 18 10:10:37 I'd suggest doing that ASAP since people who think the DL is tonight may need the boost Mar 18 10:10:45 iekku, :D awesome, what was it about?(link would be good!) Mar 18 10:10:52 thiago: the question was about "If you will need travel support, note this in your submission, also" Mar 18 10:10:58 http://sf2011.meego.com/program/sessions/bug%E2%80%99s-life-presentation-bug%E2%80%99s-life-cycle Mar 18 10:11:17 I did a quick keyword search for travel and saw nothing Mar 18 10:11:39 iekku, :D please tell me you and andre will have fly swatters on stage :D Mar 18 10:11:49 no, better, dressed up in bug customes Mar 18 10:11:49 :P Mar 18 10:11:50 lbt: you need travel support? Mar 18 10:11:52 costumes Mar 18 10:11:57 thiago: sadly Mar 18 10:11:57 lol Mar 18 10:12:12 Stskeeps, I look like a bug, said my boss... Mar 18 10:12:27 thiago: Nokia probably won't be sending me this time - and nor will Nomovok Mar 18 10:12:32 I just look wasted, as usual. Mar 18 10:12:33 I asked Mar 18 10:12:47 andre__, so we are nice couple Mar 18 10:12:53 :-D Mar 18 10:12:59 andre__, a punk and a wasted guy Mar 18 10:14:02 sorry, wasted looking guy Mar 18 10:15:57 so thiago do I just put a footer into the abstract (which looks a bit odd) Mar 18 10:16:01 lbt: you can ask for that. Just write it at the bottom of your abstract. Mar 18 10:16:09 iekku: hehe Mar 18 10:16:22 and please file a bug regarding that to the confernece website component Mar 18 10:18:05 lbt: registration asks if you're planning on being a speaker Mar 18 10:18:05 perhaps that's related Mar 18 10:18:35 no, it asks if you *are* a speaker Mar 18 10:18:49 which you have to go in and edit after your session is approved Mar 18 10:19:47 which is kinda clumsy ... but hard to avoid Mar 18 11:04:55 http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-Wants-More-Fusion-Tablets-Investigates-Android-and-MeeGo-190280.shtml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter Mar 18 11:05:08 neat Mar 18 11:19:07 has anyone actually tried getting the tablet UX built onto a handset? Mar 18 11:22:14 lcuk: it's not released yet :( Mar 18 11:22:21 Everyone wants to :) Mar 18 11:22:36 I wonder what they're using for look&feel Mar 18 11:30:47 my sudo mad-admin list does not show any entry [for 1.2 prerelese Meego SDK] Mar 18 11:30:47 Targets: Mar 18 11:30:47 Runtimes: Mar 18 11:30:57 alterego, haven't I seen tablet UX on the joggler already? Mar 18 11:31:02 vgrade ping Mar 18 11:31:20 what i need to do ??I followed http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.2-preview-under-progress Mar 18 11:32:36 bkalinga, I do not go through these steps too often, but have you gone through the: http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Docs/1.2-preview-under-progress#Add_MeeGo_SDK_1.1.80_and_later_targets Mar 18 11:33:16 yes same link i followed Mar 18 11:33:33 that talks about update of target Mar 18 11:33:46 but how to create if its not there Mar 18 11:34:17 i dont have madde.conf.d / Mar 18 11:36:46 while installing Meego1.1 sudo mad-admin list Mar 18 11:36:46 gave some target and run-times so created the target with sudo mad-admin create -f Mar 18 11:37:23 but while installing Meego1.2 pre-release "sudo mad-admin list" does not give any output. Mar 18 11:46:51 these 3d printers, can you print edible stuff? Mar 18 11:47:46 bkalinga, following the link does seem to offer a page to: http://wiki.meego.com/SDK/Tutorials/Add_a_new_target Mar 18 11:48:55 but nothing is specified there how to create!! Mar 18 11:49:09 All talks are update... Mar 18 11:50:05 while i try updating ...http://pastebin.com/PmWYsujJ Mar 18 11:50:46 * timeless kicks Qt creator Mar 18 11:52:26 ls: cannot access /usr/lib/madde/linux-i686/cache/madde.conf.d: No such file or directory Mar 18 11:52:51 any clue why this file is not there while installing Meego1.2 pre-release Mar 18 12:05:45 would MeeGo happily run on the lowres Android devices? Mar 18 12:05:56 like the Motorola CLIQ (320*480) Mar 18 12:06:05 * lcuk notes this phone only because someone mentioned it Mar 18 12:06:45 Well, there's no reason it shouldn't... The handset ux isnt designed to handle that, but other than that... Mar 18 12:07:45 I guess it's more down to if you can run your own os on the device Mar 18 12:09:54 * timeless goes back to complaining about qt creator Mar 18 12:10:05 * timeless tries to remember where the bug tracker is Mar 18 12:12:23 leinir, handset UX is only one part really Mar 18 12:12:36 but Qt is meant to be resolution independent? Mar 18 12:13:09 Qt doesn't stop UX designers from doing stupid things Mar 18 12:13:11 part, it runs android, that being Linux based I thought you could reflash Mar 18 12:13:15 it is - only the ux is a problem from what i know, as it expects 800x480 (if memory serves) Mar 18 12:13:23 leinir: that part can be changed Mar 18 12:13:32 leinir, it can also be expanded and hopefully reduced too? Mar 18 12:13:37 w00t_: yeah :) that would be nice ;) Mar 18 12:13:41 what can't be changed is that the software is designed around those resolutions Mar 18 12:13:48 i.e. there is too much stuff on screen Mar 18 12:14:07 hm Mar 18 12:15:07 w00t_, it should just work but with lower resolution fonts Mar 18 12:15:08 lcuk: being based on linux doesn't really mean anything Mar 18 12:15:38 part, it should. \@/ Mar 18 12:15:41 fonts aren't the problem Mar 18 12:16:02 you try cram openoffice onto a 3.5" screen without any adjustment and tell me how usable it is Mar 18 12:16:24 w00t_, try that with 800*480 or even higher now Mar 18 12:16:30 I have seen it Mar 18 12:16:31 lcuk: manufacturers can, and mostly do lock up their hardware as tightly as they can Mar 18 12:16:32 it isn't usable Mar 18 12:16:32 that does not work anyway and not what I am talking about Mar 18 12:16:39 it's the same principle Mar 18 12:16:47 openoffice is designed for bigger screens, bigger resolutions Mar 18 12:16:52 yes Mar 18 12:17:08 the software on meego handset UX is designed around having a certain amount of screen real estate available Mar 18 12:17:12 and open office full version is not targeted in handset Mar 18 12:17:41 w00t_, you can put the same amount of stuff on a 3.5 inch screen with high resolution as low resolution Mar 18 12:18:00 you can if it's designed in a resolution independent way, which both openoffice and meego handset apps are not Mar 18 12:18:32 which is what I've been trying to say for the past ~5 minutes :) Mar 18 12:19:54 * lcuk sighs Mar 18 12:20:09 w00t_, liqbase apps are designed for a single size (800*480 is hardcoded everywhere) Mar 18 12:20:24 yet it can happily run at any resolution Mar 18 12:20:35 i'm sure they are, but liqbase is not meego handset Mar 18 12:20:56 yes but I am trying to work out why it cannot do the same Mar 18 12:20:57 meaning that example is pretty useless for the purpose of this discussion (running meego handset on a lower resolution) Mar 18 12:21:09 because designers work around pixel measurements Mar 18 12:21:13 w00t_, the same discussion is needed for higher resolution too Mar 18 12:21:21 higher resolution is an easier problem Mar 18 12:21:38 you get expanded spacers, not an unusable application Mar 18 12:21:48 http://liqbase.net/20110222_003.jpg Mar 18 12:21:55 that is current handset Mar 18 12:22:03 on a 1024*600 screen Mar 18 12:22:03 that is current handset without a device configuration Mar 18 12:22:12 fix the device configuration, then tell me what it looks like Mar 18 12:23:38 lcuk, tablet is on joggler Mar 18 12:23:49 lcuk, sec for pictures and video Mar 18 12:24:48 lcuk, http://www.youtube.com/user/vgrade100#p/u/7/WuJbWMsY3bE Mar 18 12:25:42 w00t_, the raising resolution case is the other side and yeah I know it scales up Mar 18 12:25:49 vgrade-nexus, :D I thought so Mar 18 12:26:08 thanks, how did you get it onto there though, and is there a possibility to make same sort of test on n900? Mar 18 12:26:52 the joggler is x86 iirc Mar 18 12:27:02 the UX is QML iirc Mar 18 12:27:06 meaning the tablet image would more or less run on there - with some shoehorning Mar 18 12:27:17 all of it won't be Mar 18 12:28:00 * lcuk nods Mar 18 12:30:43 lcuk, I just took the tablet ux image, extracted the embedded filesystems, used that with the joggler efi bits and EMGD driver, job done Mar 18 12:31:07 ahh phoey Mar 18 12:31:47 woot_, what bits are x86 specific? Mar 18 13:03:24 hi all Mar 18 13:03:53 hi hi Mar 18 13:06:02 don't forget that we have a special TSG meeting in 2 hours. Topic is WG nominations (lots of them): http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings#Next_TSG_meeting Mar 18 13:06:39 finally ;) Mar 18 13:07:25 Stskeeps: no kidding - it's great to see some movement again & lots of great companies getting involved in MeeGo Mar 18 13:07:37 DawnFoster: i'm most intruiged by the handset WG nominations, personally Mar 18 13:07:41 that's good news Mar 18 13:07:57 Stskeeps: handset is just a start Mar 18 13:08:10 but i think given the new situations we -really really- need to keep TSGs going regularly, even if it means having more flexible times for them :P Mar 18 13:08:23 we're getting a few done and out of the way and we'll have more in a few weeks for handset Mar 18 13:08:26 :nod: Mar 18 13:09:20 * Stskeeps is happy to see project going forward. Mar 18 13:11:38 great Mar 18 13:12:17 oh, MIPS too Mar 18 13:12:19 that's even more interesting Mar 18 13:46:38 I'm trying to install texworks in meego and the app manager doesn't seem to be working Mar 18 13:47:12 are there any known issues with this? is there a work around? Mar 18 13:47:55 that's rather general Mar 18 13:48:02 can you define "doesn't seem to be working"? Mar 18 13:48:15 did it go out for a coffee? Mar 18 13:48:28 timeless, ... Mar 18 13:48:39 hey, my coworker went to sleep Mar 18 13:48:50 that means he "doesn't seem to be working" Mar 18 13:48:58 but i could wake him up... Mar 18 13:49:26 i think i'm going sleeping now Mar 18 13:49:34 you should wake your buddy up. then maybe the meego would work Mar 18 13:49:56 meego works fine for me, i can file bugs about things in it all day long! Mar 18 13:50:34 when I click apply it just says that the "software list is refreshing" but doesn't install Mar 18 13:50:35 timeless, that's nice :) Mar 18 13:50:44 * iekku likes bugs with doos description Mar 18 13:50:50 doos? Mar 18 13:50:52 good Mar 18 13:52:08 rdesfo: see, that's a much better description of your problem! Mar 18 13:52:20 rdesfo: Are you using the netbook UX ? Mar 18 13:52:27 yes Mar 18 13:52:36 (do you have a working network? do you have a proxy?) Mar 18 13:52:52 I'm able to connect to the internet Mar 18 13:53:17 rdesfo: Open a terminal shell, and do this: Mar 18 13:53:29 rdesfo: sudo zypper refresh Mar 18 13:54:06 rdesfo: My guess is that the refresh is choking because it needs/wants you to verify that something is unsigned in the repo. Mar 18 13:55:59 rdesfo: After that, you should be able to install the package... and it would be really cool if you would file a bug on bugs.meego.com (if one doesn't already exist) Mar 18 13:55:59 it said everything was update to date Mar 18 13:56:32 then I went back to the application manager and it said the application couldn't be found Mar 18 13:58:42 rdesfo: Did it ever say that the application could be found? Mar 18 13:59:47 oh... he's gone.... Mar 18 14:58:26 TSG meeting starting in 5 minutes over in #meego-meeting http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings Mar 18 15:00:06 Birmingham MeeGo Meeting Pics, http://www.meegoexperts.com/2011/03/meego-birmingham-uk-meetup/ Mar 18 15:00:19 DawnFoster: http://events.linkedin.com/MeeGo-Conference-2011-SFO/pub/587561 ... just FYI ... you may want to claim the event. Mar 18 15:01:37 vgrade-nexus_: I thought that was tomorrow Mar 18 15:02:00 lbt, were you planning to attend? Mar 18 15:02:18 I was thinking about it Mar 18 15:02:22 * lbt is in Reading Mar 18 15:02:49 thought it was a saturday event.... Mar 18 15:02:49 lbt: thanks Mar 18 15:03:11 lbt, ash is planning more events. Would certainly like to see more developers at the next meet Mar 18 15:04:06 :D vgrade-nexus_ Mar 18 15:04:10 Lot to cover today Mar 18 15:04:20 * lcuk going to Manchester with a few folks on Sunday Mar 18 15:04:35 but >>> #meego-meeting for now Mar 18 15:04:42 jeremiah: hey stranger :) Mar 18 15:05:07 Howdy! Mar 18 15:05:33 lbt: You're going to get the official nod today, no? Mar 18 15:05:45 not afaik Mar 18 15:05:55 * gabrbedd nods at lbt Mar 18 15:06:08 we were supposed to propose it pre-wimper Mar 18 15:06:24 lbt: I thought you were still on the agenda. Mar 18 15:06:25 Hmm Mar 18 15:07:15 "Tentatively scheduled for Feb 23" Mar 18 15:07:32 that's news to me Mar 18 15:07:38 (good news :) ) Mar 18 15:07:58 Yeah, you're in the backlog any way Mar 18 15:08:07 So hopefully they'll get to that today. Mar 18 15:08:08 * Jaffa supposes questions about *who* the TSG are now and the governance of the project will fall into AOB Mar 18 15:08:25 *g* Mar 18 15:09:07 * Jaffa used to work with Visteon Mar 18 15:09:20 I thought they were bright LEDs.... Mar 18 15:10:00 Jaffa: You used to work with Visteon? Mar 18 15:10:06 I didn't know that. Mar 18 15:10:18 woohoo! Mar 18 15:10:21 Visteon is one of the biggest "Tier 1" companies Mar 18 15:10:25 i now have a bugzilla product all to myself! Mar 18 15:10:35 lbt: let's talk later about your item in the tsg (won't be today) Mar 18 15:10:48 jeremiah: Was working at Ford when they were spun out. Mar 18 15:10:55 DawnFoster: not expecting it to be... was going to raise it at CO first Mar 18 15:11:33 Jaffa: Ah, wow. Mar 18 15:13:07 What is the question policy again? Mar 18 15:13:14 Do we post questions here? Mar 18 15:13:22 Or in #meego-meeting? Mar 18 15:13:34 jeremiah: we'll ask for questions after the presenter is finished Mar 18 15:13:45 the questions get posted in meego-meeting Mar 18 15:13:50 but not until I ask for them :) Mar 18 15:13:57 DawnFoster: Okay, thanks! Mar 18 15:15:28 600 million subscribers. Not too shabby. Mar 18 15:16:19 http://s011.radikal.ru/i318/1103/fb/5759a8696054.png <- what do you think? :) Mar 18 15:17:28 wazd_: I think it is nice. And I think it is in Russian. Mar 18 15:18:01 jeremiah: half in russian :) Just to check how it would look :) Mar 18 15:18:33 * lbt is confused about nominations from Nokia Mar 18 15:19:05 lbt: You're not alone. Mar 18 15:19:32 especially in the upcoming Smart TV section Mar 18 15:19:39 The LGE nominations are great though. Mar 18 15:19:50 wazd_: CSSU using your icon now :) I've scaled your original to 48, 64 and 108 px sizes needed for the three use cases Mar 18 15:19:55 lbt: Terminal mode in your TV? Mar 18 15:20:26 yeah LGE .... :) Mar 18 15:20:34 lbt: Good question Mar 18 15:20:58 lbt, sami is listed on the page Mar 18 15:21:27 lbt: oh, nokia nominated some tv stuff? Mar 18 15:21:40 lbt: keep in mind that nokia in theory still wants to use the people it had allocated to meego Mar 18 15:21:52 but it to some extent has indicated that mobile phones = wp7 Mar 18 15:22:15 if there's an easy spot to move meego people to, that's a good thing Mar 18 15:22:23 oddly, nokia used to make tv's in the past fwiw Mar 18 15:22:40 Stskeeps: OK - should have recognised the name Mar 18 15:22:46 * Jaffa has a Nokia STB in the guest room Mar 18 15:23:35 So Nokia is just one member of the Handset WG now. That should ease compliance a bit. :P Mar 18 15:23:42 Jaffa: great :) Mar 18 15:24:07 I have Nokia monitors, old Nokia computers, modems etc :) Mar 18 15:24:30 Nokia Mikko computers Mar 18 15:24:44 (not even mikromikko, these are older) Mar 18 15:25:07 http://meego.com/about/governance/program-office/handset-program ? Mar 18 15:26:02 lbt: That looks out of date. Mar 18 15:26:16 the whole governance structure needs to be updated Mar 18 15:26:47 I'm hoping we can do that soon Mar 18 15:26:56 np Mar 18 15:31:19 * Stskeeps just hopes it gets done right, with general thoughts outlined and published and then proposal executed Mar 18 15:31:37 Intel - Representative: Dominique Le Foll ? Mar 18 15:31:50 I thought he was Amino Mar 18 15:31:56 he moved Mar 18 15:32:13 ah... should pay more attention Mar 18 15:32:26 cool @ mips Mar 18 15:32:28 ah dominig ... :) Mar 18 15:32:35 Yeah, very cool about MIPS Mar 18 15:32:36 yes.... but whatever happened to AMD.... Mar 18 15:32:49 still around i think Mar 18 15:32:53 dominig: good question Mar 18 15:32:56 there was an interview Mar 18 15:33:02 http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-Wants-More-Fusion-Tablets-Investigates-Android-and-MeeGo-190280.shtml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter Mar 18 15:33:21 (posted this morning, spotted it) Mar 18 15:33:55 does the MIPS hardwareinclude required 3d graphics? Mar 18 15:33:57 wow this is first time online on 3g on n900 in a loooong time Mar 18 15:34:38 lcuk: compliance needs GL iirc Mar 18 15:34:58 gles Mar 18 15:35:08 picky Mar 18 15:35:09 morn arjan :) Mar 18 15:35:13 morning Mar 18 15:36:42 question answered: http://www.mips.com/Customer_newsletter_0908/partnerShowcase.htm Mar 18 15:36:44 is it safe to be here again ? ;-) Mar 18 15:36:45 * lbt looks around for elephants... Mar 18 15:37:44 arjan: it should always be safe or we aren't handling things right here :) Mar 18 15:37:47 here we go on the "one at a time you naughtly boys" Mar 18 15:37:56 arjan: we missed you :) Mar 18 15:38:00 lbt you should be a poet instead (or in addition to) an engineer Mar 18 15:38:01 Its never safe. Mar 18 15:38:08 Stskeeps: so what do you mean when you say "we're missing 3D"? :) Mar 18 15:38:22 qgilN900: I'm a dancer ... it's close ;) Mar 18 15:38:29 alterego: huh? Mar 18 15:38:45 n900 drawing 115-130 mA in 2g with irc and low brightness Mar 18 15:38:48 * arjan tries to remember what nick carsten normally uses Mar 18 15:38:51 Stskeeps: you said something like that earlier when I asked if it was worth me trying to make a hfp image today ;) Mar 18 15:38:55 arjan: this one Mar 18 15:40:08 lol :) Mar 18 15:40:34 safety is an assumption :) Mar 18 15:41:02 Whoops, wrong channel Mar 18 15:41:20 qgilN900: This is what I'm currently having to do irt theming in my dialer: http://pastie.org/1685741 Mar 18 15:41:32 arjan: Stskeeps Mar 18 15:41:39 lbt, with the working group *expansions* it seems hopefully the discussions would be expected to be even more open? Mar 18 15:42:04 lcuk: Or lots of closed conference calls Mar 18 15:42:06 yes... but Intel engineers seem to have been very quiet recently Mar 18 15:42:14 everyone has Mar 18 15:42:30 * lcuk hears pin drop in this channel some days Mar 18 15:43:03 alterego: I see... Mar 18 15:43:04 * TSCHAKeee is just slowly porting parts of LinuxMCE to MeeGo, and only pops up to dispense with comment :P Mar 18 15:44:09 qgilN900: There are a few possibilities in regards to actually getting proper colours, once the Qt -> MeeGo Touch bridge is done, hopefully QPalette will have the proper values. Though this may not be the case. Mar 18 15:44:24 lbt: the situation is a bit weird. Mar 18 15:44:44 and the press is paying very close attention as well on anything nokia related right now Mar 18 15:44:54 so every half sentence on a mailing list becomes a news story Mar 18 15:44:58 TSCHAKeee, it seems many folks see the same thing, but if we each hide away in caves it is no wonder teamwork does not appear to happen Mar 18 15:45:07 arjan you tell me :) Mar 18 15:45:52 arjan: yep I can appreciate that ... and sympathise Mar 18 15:45:54 TSCHAKeee, hi, got time to talk Mar 18 15:46:01 lcuk: indeed. you're right... the issue here is that honestly, I have a huge project that i am wrangling...and I only say or ask something. Mar 18 15:46:05 vgrade-nexus_: whazzup? Mar 18 15:46:11 lbt: in addition it's a bit unclear who will be working on meego outside of intel going forward Mar 18 15:46:27 arjan: tell me about it ;) Mar 18 15:46:29 * TSCHAKeee is in an engineering meeting, but a significant chunk of my brain isn't being used..so...I can haz multitask. Mar 18 15:46:36 arjan: Looks like a lot of other companies are joining the working groups . . . Mar 18 15:46:37 I still have a job with Nokia..... for now ..... Mar 18 15:46:53 TSCHAKeee, I know the feeling Mar 18 15:48:25 DawnFoster: I have a QUESTION... let me know when I can ask ... this pause is pregnant Mar 18 15:48:48 slow typing .... Mar 18 15:48:55 lbt - go! Mar 18 15:48:57 :) Mar 18 15:49:58 lbt and your question really is...? :) Mar 18 15:50:20 should MeeGo core focus on delivering less stuff more reliably Mar 18 15:50:40 and focus on vendors and not distros Mar 18 15:51:02 i think considering who's in the WG that question answers itself Mar 18 15:51:04 lots of talented ppl around, but some degree of paralysis Mar 18 15:51:31 I'm with arfoll Mar 18 15:51:58 lbt: "meego core" does not exist. Mar 18 15:52:17 meego is a distribution that needs to have a wide range of tools, not just what ends up on the device, to be viable for developers and others. Mar 18 15:52:18 arjan: it has boundaries Mar 18 15:52:35 and there's a scope to what can be regression tested at release Mar 18 15:52:35 meego right now is too small, maybe some 1400 packages Mar 18 15:52:39 DawnFoster: Just thought of a related question Mar 18 15:52:40 and what is a release blocker Mar 18 15:52:47 that'll need to go up to maybe 2500 ish to be minimum viable Mar 18 15:52:51 Actually, don't bother. Mar 18 15:53:16 arjan: I'd like to find some time to discuss this with you ... maybe a BOF session at SF ? Mar 18 15:53:22 sure Mar 18 15:53:31 now there is a set that is assumed to be on devices, and a set that is not Mar 18 15:53:46 and that's clearly a split in terms of QA effort, more than fair enough. Mar 18 15:54:03 but what goes on devices also is more wide than some nokia guys think about Mar 18 15:54:08 not everything is a phone ;) Mar 18 15:54:34 arjan: and I want to allow meego 'core' (should it exist) to focus more on it's real customers Mar 18 15:55:02 and if one of those customers is meego 'distro' ... which provides the tools etc... that's great Mar 18 15:55:06 personal opinion: I would be happy if MeeGo would release the best mobile stack from Kernel to Qt every 6 months like a clock, plus the corresponding platform and application developer tools, leaving the UXs entirely and explicitely to vendors and the community Mar 18 15:55:10 it makes meego less introspective Mar 18 15:55:31 qgilN900: exactly Mar 18 15:55:44 qgilN900++ Mar 18 15:55:45 agrees Mar 18 15:56:35 Ditto Mar 18 15:57:06 I think that is a good vision, but I don't think that fits with Intel's vision Mar 18 15:57:14 I think Intel wants UIs as part of MeeGo Mar 18 15:57:17 arjan: I very much *do not think* that meego should be phone oriented Mar 18 15:57:42 jeremiah: couldn't a UI project be like a reference vendor project Mar 18 15:58:08 I think a common and/or reference UX is very important. Mar 18 15:58:13 Sure, but isn't that tricky? I mean, things need to be pretty polished. Mar 18 15:58:22 you cannot decouple user experience from the OS Mar 18 15:58:22 which exercises and validates a meego-core external communication focus Mar 18 15:58:32 experience goes through the whole stack, not jsut the pretty pixels part Mar 18 15:58:52 gabrbedd: Reference UXes encourage closed thinking, cos everything is viewed as "MeeGo's tablet UI" Mar 18 15:59:05 Exactly, you need almost a separate library per vertical since the input mechanisms in each vertical are so different Mar 18 15:59:10 arjan: not disagreeing ... just looking to trim the fat and provide a scalable mechanism to expand the project Mar 18 15:59:36 arjan, the fact is that there will be different UXs in different MeeGo products Mar 18 15:59:37 Jaffa: users are closed thinkers. They don't get a flip about your innovative UI. They don't want to have to learn a new UI with every device. Mar 18 15:59:40 lbt: You could extend that argument though down to just the kernel and the BSP Mar 18 15:59:46 Jaffa: That's why people stick with Windows. Mar 18 16:00:02 jeremiah: the kernel delivers the kernel.... not even libc Mar 18 16:00:06 Jade: ...and why people hated Vista (because something changed) Mar 18 16:00:14 gabrbedd: I don't agree - look at the phenominal rise of Android Mar 18 16:00:30 arjan you need a UX to test your enablers, but ultimately what counts are the real bugs found by real product and apps developers Mar 18 16:01:19 qgilN900: Sure. But then Intel needs to create _two_ UIs; their "proprietary" UI and the MeeGo UI Mar 18 16:01:25 jeremiah: And all the reviews are on the UX. Mar 18 16:01:46 jeremiah: they have an open (soon) MeeGo UI Mar 18 16:02:23 I guess the real question is if MeeGo expects vendors to ship the reference ui (like most android OEMs) or vendors create their own experience on top of MeeGo. Mar 18 16:02:37 And create fragmentation because of that. Mar 18 16:02:46 But if you say that no one in MeeGo should focus on UI, then you can start taking out bits like Qt. Mar 18 16:03:00 my 2c: #MeeGo is meant to be #Smart #Fast #Simple #Intuitive #Innovative and #Different on ALL devices. Mar 18 16:03:00 jeremiah - why? open UIs are extremely good for testing platforms and proprietary UIs should be a work left for whoever is investing in a commercial product Mar 18 16:03:03 You can start to pare the whole OS down to busybox Mar 18 16:03:30 qgilN900: Because even today you have customers who insist on clutter Mar 18 16:03:43 qgilN900: You have to have _all_ UI libs now Mar 18 16:03:44 but no worries, that was just my personal opinion and what matters is what the real stakeholders think it's better for their business, seriously Mar 18 16:03:54 Indeed. Mar 18 16:05:38 Hi, is there a 64 bit version of meego sdk for debian ? Mar 18 16:05:41 need to go, thanks for the chat :) Mar 18 16:05:50 -) Mar 18 16:05:56 Or :-) even! Mar 18 16:06:32 akssps011: Not really. What are you looking to develop? Many of the libs already exist in Debian Mar 18 16:07:05 akssps011: Although I suppose you could get MADDE to run on Debian. Mar 18 16:07:38 jeremiah: I am trying out KDE Marble meant for meego. Mar 18 16:07:55 arjan: maybe you should hold regular IRC "The architect is in" sessions Mar 18 16:09:33 jeremiah: is it same as the SDK simulator ? I saw that there exists one for fedora 13 64 bit but not for debian Mar 18 16:10:24 akssps011: I'm not sure if MADDE is the same as the SDK simulator Mar 18 16:10:53 Back in the Maemo days it was a SDK that did fancy chroot stuff and used xepher so it was a kind of "simulator" Mar 18 16:11:19 I don't know if MADDE has transmogrified into the SDK simulator, though someone in this channel should know Mar 18 16:12:16 Whoa. KDE Marble looks really cool Mar 18 16:14:22 :) Mar 18 16:41:43 lcuk: You dropped your pin. Mar 18 16:42:23 gabrbedd, ? Mar 18 16:44:05 "* lcuk hears pin drop in this channel some days" Mar 18 16:44:19 :D heh Mar 18 16:44:26 * lcuk picks it up Mar 18 16:44:43 yeah but that's because lcuk works when the reasonable world is asleep :) Mar 18 16:45:32 berndhs, no, I just get talkative in evening, MeeGo has a great number of people in America does it not ;) Mar 18 16:46:12 gotta run Mar 18 16:46:18 I think IRC is thinner in America than in Europe Mar 18 16:46:49 berndhs: #meego from 9PM-Midnight CDT is really, really dead. Mar 18 16:47:32 berndhs: It's just as well, though, it gets pretty distracting. Mar 18 16:47:58 I tried #qt-qml, its dead all day and night Mar 18 16:48:51 berndhs: most folks just ask on #qt Mar 18 16:50:23 names Mar 18 16:50:32 * lcuk hmms Mar 18 16:51:52 * lcuk ponders heading into a cave outside work hours Mar 18 16:52:42 cave good Mar 18 16:54:08 if do osc copypac what happens if a package was a link? Mar 18 16:54:08 lofty306, indeed :) get to do lots of cave painting! Mar 18 16:54:52 the -e option is confusing me, expanding means copying it out fully? I'd like it to link to where the original package was linking Mar 18 17:06:13 sigh http://hackaday.com/2011/03/18/junkyard-jumbotron-is-begging-to-for-an-open-source-project-clone/ Mar 18 17:06:45 that is slow Mar 18 17:08:39 * lcuk contacts MIT Mar 18 17:31:00 of course it is slow, it is cloud based Mar 18 17:31:17 you can't even use it with anything except photos that you send to their website Mar 18 17:31:44 ali1234, since the components are designed to be in the same room, it could communicate using LAN/WiFi/adhoc Mar 18 17:31:48 ;) Mar 18 17:31:48 and instead of doing something sensible like using VNC, they use a web browser to render the display Mar 18 17:32:34 communication method is not the problem here Mar 18 17:33:03 the problem is use of html5 Mar 18 17:33:39 lol Mar 18 17:33:47 ali1234, sending via vnc is problematic also Mar 18 17:33:52 no Mar 18 17:33:54 due to bandwidth constraints Mar 18 17:33:57 sure it is Mar 18 17:34:04 lcuk you try e-cigs yet? Mar 18 17:34:07 sending a data stream to 8 other machines in realtime Mar 18 17:34:21 right. sending a whole new jpeg for every frame is going to be way better. right Mar 18 17:34:40 vnc works on a 56k modem with a 800x600 screen Mar 18 17:34:42 ali1234, how about just sending the coordinates required todisplay Mar 18 17:34:50 oh, you mean like vnc does? Mar 18 17:34:50 once they all have same image url it is trivial Mar 18 17:35:07 right, and what happens if you want to display something other than a static image? Mar 18 17:35:20 ali1234, each device needs same data Mar 18 17:35:35 the problem you describe is exactly the same as smart tvs have Mar 18 17:35:44 even TSCHAKeee has to overcome similar Mar 18 17:35:55 moving video from playing on desktop to laptop for instance Mar 18 17:36:08 who cares about video? Mar 18 17:36:19 anything less than full desktop is pointless Mar 18 17:36:29 people who want to carry on watching video from their big tv whilst they go to the toilet Mar 18 17:36:50 people should buy sky+ Mar 18 17:37:00 right Mar 18 17:37:09 this is what sensible people do Mar 18 17:37:17 CosmoHill, the sky+ app to record on the go is nice :) Mar 18 17:37:26 who wants to go from a 40" with a 5.1 surround to a small phone? Mar 18 17:37:28 however you are missing the point completely Mar 18 17:37:37 I probably am Mar 18 17:37:39 which is that html5 has no advantages over vnc, and just causes a bunch of problems Mar 18 17:37:42 ROFL .... sky+ is useless .... MythTV :) Mar 18 17:37:51 lbt it is not pointless Mar 18 17:38:02 lbt: I improved my sky+ box by removing the hard drive and cooling fan Mar 18 17:38:05 I have now seen a bunch of friends randomly notice something on tv whilst out Mar 18 17:38:09 and record them Mar 18 17:38:13 it is actually novel :) Mar 18 17:38:25 mass market simplicity Mar 18 17:38:33 have fun getting your sky card working in a pc Mar 18 17:38:34 mmm ... been doing that for >5 years .... Mar 18 17:38:41 doable but so much work :P Mar 18 17:38:55 haltdef: you managed it ? Mar 18 17:39:10 * lbt goes via PVR still - works just fine Mar 18 17:39:15 no, I use a dreambox and card share Mar 18 17:40:37 more important though: MeeGo tv will need to do similar Mar 18 17:40:51 and you better hope there is a MeeGo app for remote controlling the MeeGo tv ! Mar 18 17:41:02 yeah - I'm not sure where it's going Mar 18 17:41:22 too much time and money being wasted in DRM Mar 18 17:41:23 lbt, into the home. Mar 18 17:41:45 * lcuk sent first mail to MIT Mar 18 17:41:47 chasing last centuries business model Mar 18 17:42:15 heck ... we had VHS last century.... we're at sub-VHS levels now Mar 18 17:42:35 lbt: youtube? Mar 18 17:42:39 ha ha ha Mar 18 17:42:47 lbt, sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forwards. Mar 18 17:42:58 "you're doing it wrong" Mar 18 17:44:00 when the objective is "make people watch the video stream" ... then it'll work Mar 18 17:44:15 the current business plan is "how do we stop them" Mar 18 17:44:18 duh Mar 18 17:44:41 You cant stop the signal, Mal. Mar 18 17:44:46 lets launch a business stopping people watching what we sell.... ROFL Mar 18 17:45:15 there is a name for that Mar 18 17:45:18 oh, forgot attributation: - Mr. Universe, Serenity 2005. Mar 18 17:45:23 "extortion" Mar 18 17:45:41 Bostik: "stupidity" Mar 18 17:46:29 lbt, so, what is the alternative? Mar 18 17:46:45 * lcuk does not mind DRM per say, it gives people something to do. Mar 18 17:46:46 lcuk: Wargames Mar 18 17:46:48 right, that too Mar 18 17:47:04 tic-tac-toe Mar 18 17:47:06 lbt, that is what tictactoe is for Mar 18 17:47:17 the only winning strategy.... Mar 18 17:47:18 * lcuk plays regularly Mar 18 17:47:21 :P Mar 18 17:47:27 a game of thermonuclear war? Mar 18 17:47:38 did you know lbt, that tictactoe is great for teaching people how to write Mar 18 17:47:56 because you have to get used to doing letter formation in a fixed size Mar 18 17:48:00 Bostik: they're engaging in guerilla warfare Mar 18 17:48:34 Bostik: and generally yes, the winning strategy is to napalm the villages and sod the consequences.... Mar 18 17:48:42 the two don2 go well together, I think Mar 18 17:49:21 I swear a moment ago we were talking about sky+ boxes and now we've moved onto mass murder, wtf? Mar 18 17:49:24 "first rule of jungle warfare: get rid of the jungle" Mar 18 17:49:35 I noticed the US took further steps to make copying a video attract similar punishment to rape... Mar 18 17:50:01 and they made it a felony so the corporates don't even have to waste time in civil suits Mar 18 17:50:14 finns have long since gone past Mar 18 17:50:29 so I do feel that it's not a nice place Mar 18 17:51:16 ok, remove drm but still allow movies to be released Mar 18 17:51:49 how do you manage it without and to ensure that a business model can continue? Mar 18 17:52:12 you can't Mar 18 17:52:19 why is this a problem? Mar 18 17:52:21 ali1234, really? Mar 18 17:52:55 it *is* possible Mar 18 17:52:58 you can't "ensure that a business model can continue" Mar 18 17:53:05 Coldplay did it with their albums Mar 18 17:53:13 Music is different from movies. Mar 18 17:53:18 no it isn't. Mar 18 17:53:27 Music artists have historically /never/ made any money off their albums. Mar 18 17:53:34 it is data that people worked hard to create Mar 18 17:53:36 The make it in live performances... concerts. Mar 18 17:53:45 same as apps Mar 18 17:53:56 same as photographs Mar 18 17:54:01 So, the record companies made the $$ of record sales, and the artists had to hit the road. Mar 18 17:54:03 poor pop stars... working so hard all the time Mar 18 17:54:06 bawwww Mar 18 17:54:15 ali1234, software then. Mar 18 17:54:42 Movies and photography are different because the data /is/ the artist's primary revenue stream. Mar 18 17:54:43 * timoph was about to comment but decided to stay out of this discussion :) Mar 18 17:54:53 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tdsL4kvp_I Mar 18 17:56:01 on a tangentially related note, I personally think there is something utterly broken when you need a pair of earplugs if you go to watch a movie in cinema Mar 18 17:56:02 * lcuk just thinks that random trashing of a model without even considering an alternative is a bit silly Mar 18 17:56:22 lcuk: make the objective is "make people watch the video stream" ... then it'll work Mar 18 17:56:28 * ali1234 thinks requiring everything be meticulously planned and controlled is quite silly too Mar 18 17:56:38 lbt - ok Mar 18 17:57:05 how do you give the producers a pat on the back? Mar 18 17:57:12 credits Mar 18 17:57:59 how does that help? we have credits now on paid for media Mar 18 17:58:36 personally i think if there was less money involved in movies and music and tv then the quality would improve a lot Mar 18 17:58:46 same goes for professional sports actually Mar 18 17:58:48 and software too Mar 18 17:59:00 ali1234: you mean if people had to work harder for the money Mar 18 17:59:09 CosmoHill: yeah pretty much Mar 18 17:59:14 lcuk: what you meant was "where's the revenue stream" Mar 18 17:59:29 it would remove the shovelware from the equation and make it easier to find the quality Mar 18 17:59:32 yes Mar 18 17:59:38 lbt ^ Mar 18 17:59:48 but most TV programming is truly shit.... Mar 18 17:59:57 * CosmoHill avoids ITV Mar 18 17:59:58 eye of the beholder. Mar 18 17:59:59 when your largest target group has a 5-second attention span, you can't really aim for quality Mar 18 18:00:15 add the product placement.... and pay to show it Mar 18 18:00:16 you can blame the public but that isn't really the whole picture Mar 18 18:00:34 for many people, what we see as shit because we interact with our devices are a lifeline Mar 18 18:00:45 the "5 second attention span" isn't the largest group, it is merely the cheapest to produce for. and therefore the most profitable Mar 18 18:01:07 lbt, reasonable - advertising supported Mar 18 18:01:16 ali1234: I'm not claiming that it'll produce quality programming :) Mar 18 18:01:17 * lcuk notes the number of apps which are fully branded Mar 18 18:01:19 right, the most important one then :( Mar 18 18:01:24 increasing or descreasing the revenue stream would not change this fact Mar 18 18:01:38 when we say "crap tv", we're talking about UK standards right? Mar 18 18:01:40 * gabrbedd 's favorite TV station is "OFF" Mar 18 18:01:44 most important group is kids that buy with their parents money Mar 18 18:01:55 CosmoHill: US TV measured by UK standards... yep Mar 18 18:02:03 also... BBC Mar 18 18:02:04 berndhs, imagine what happens if you find something the parents themselves like :) Mar 18 18:02:22 parents are too careful with their money Mar 18 18:02:23 watching US programs that are streamed live on sports channels are weird Mar 18 18:02:30 * lcuk notes the number of elderly people who remark with joy at something as simple as handwriting. Mar 18 18:02:35 cos when the americans have an advert the UK don't Mar 18 18:02:40 and if kids get used to your brand, a lot of them stay loyal Mar 18 18:02:48 some short BBC series, such as Jekyll... Mar 18 18:02:50 lcuk: that's just nostalgia Mar 18 18:02:51 I think I counted 4 US adverts for every 1 UK advert Mar 18 18:02:52 yum Mar 18 18:03:02 lbt :) it might be Mar 18 18:03:15 lcuk: So... liqbase is for elderly people? :-p Mar 18 18:03:37 gabrbedd, I always said it was simplified computing Mar 18 18:03:44 my grandad was on wikipedia the other day so I made the joke about him being online Mar 18 18:03:46 it is for people who do not like complex computers Mar 18 18:03:49 :) Mar 18 18:04:04 gabrbedd: it's an emulation of a notebook, something people under 40 have probably never seen... so yeah Mar 18 18:04:06 gabrbedd, my nana used the firstversion Mar 18 18:04:30 * lcuk dislikes complex computers Mar 18 18:04:45 lcuk: I'm waiting for it to *do* something with a scribble Mar 18 18:04:51 ted nelson would probably have a heart attack if you showed him liqbase Mar 18 18:05:13 when I draw a tic-tac-toe board... I want it to draw a X Mar 18 18:05:29 lbt, heh Mar 18 18:05:37 you have the weekend Mar 18 18:05:49 I am writing prototype mywatch this weekend Mar 18 18:06:03 sometimes I want it to draw a tic-tac-toe board and say "shall we play" Mar 18 18:06:05 I showed some mates the idea last night :) Mar 18 18:06:11 my lecturer said that computer minded people are actually more paitent with computers cos they understand the workload Mar 18 18:06:32 lbt that would be a multi stroke gesture Mar 18 18:06:33 this backfires when you run a simple task and it takes a long itme Mar 18 18:07:06 * gabrbedd really likes liqbase.... Mar 18 18:07:12 CosmoHill: leading to error messages like "Sheesh... hang on will you" Mar 18 18:07:31 "well I don't see you doing any work" Mar 18 18:07:39 "I'm multitasking, why don't you?" Mar 18 18:09:06 speaking of multiasking, it takes 9 hours for my 16 core cluster to compute all goldbach conjecture numbers under 500,000 Mar 18 18:11:49 CosmoHill, but can it put a fruit pastel in its drive bay without chewing it? Mar 18 18:12:06 CosmoHill, yes, except when it's slow for no good reason. ;) Mar 18 18:12:25 lcuk: well it can put a DVD in it's drive without reading it so probably yes Mar 18 18:13:39 not surprisingly, the n900 meego appears to run "make -j 1" faster than "make -j 2" Mar 18 18:17:45 * lcuk compares directly with n900 maemo Mar 18 18:18:54 * CosmoHill is mildly amazed that he just played a flash video full screen Mar 18 19:03:33 guyz i cam in here thinking about sip Mar 18 19:04:06 looks like the link you posted in topic is not working, some kinda space in the link with some | in it Mar 18 19:04:25 your admin might know this thanks Mar 18 19:04:59 I'm really confused Mar 18 19:05:14 who isn't... Mar 18 19:06:01 oh I see Mar 18 19:06:15 my client won't open the first two links in the IRC topic Mar 18 19:06:26 "http://meego.com" becomes "http://meego.com |" Mar 18 19:06:57 CosmoHill: that's your IRC client being confused, not the link Mar 18 19:31:56 Who keeps spreading the meme that MeeGo file systems are slower tham Maemo? Mar 18 19:32:47 because from what I can gather, MeeGo filesystem is quite substantially faster than same machine running Maemo (at least for the tests I just ran) Mar 18 19:33:08 MeeGo: Mar 18 19:33:08 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/meego/svn_tab/libliqbase/src' Mar 18 19:33:08 real 2m43.337s Mar 18 19:33:08 Maemo: Mar 18 19:33:09 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/user/svn_tab/libliqbase/src' Mar 18 19:33:11 real 4m 28.92s Mar 18 19:33:37 that is MeeGo running on a 4gb class 2 card. Mar 18 19:33:47 and with the slower cpu Mar 18 19:34:40 more indepth notes and things: http://pastebin.com/RTP1bUDT Mar 18 19:35:06 it's a fact that sd/mcc is significantly slower than nand regardless of what filesystem you use Mar 18 19:36:09 ali1234, I tried the Maemo results on different parts of the filesystem Mar 18 19:36:13 to try and determine that Mar 18 19:36:16 I ran it on Mar 18 19:36:21 : /root Mar 18 19:36:26 : /home Mar 18 19:36:31 : //home/user Mar 18 19:36:37 : /home/user/MyDocs Mar 18 19:36:47 with negligable difference Mar 18 19:36:50 try it on / Mar 18 19:37:02 everything under /home is on mmc Mar 18 19:37:05 not sure about /root Mar 18 19:37:07 /root is on the rootfs Mar 18 19:37:25 but hold on then :) Mar 18 19:37:30 just for completeness Mar 18 19:37:30 also be sure to test read and write independently Mar 18 19:37:40 it was real world test Mar 18 19:37:55 hmm. MeeGo wasn't accepted for Summer of Code 2011. pity. Mar 18 19:38:01 real world = "how long does it take to load programs?" Mar 18 19:38:01 and MeeGo filesystem appeared to make it much faster Mar 18 19:38:05 this is a pure read operation Mar 18 19:38:10 ? Mar 18 19:38:13 "time make" Mar 18 19:38:15 was the command Mar 18 19:38:19 compiling a library Mar 18 19:38:24 make involves copious amounts of writing Mar 18 19:38:24 lots of read and write Mar 18 19:38:41 not no mention high cpu use Mar 18 19:38:57 yes, another thing I was expecting MeeGo to do poorly at Mar 18 19:39:05 since the cpu has a max of 500mhz Mar 18 19:39:11 vs Maemo having a max of 600 Mar 18 19:39:16 why would meego be poor at compiling? it runs the cpu at full speed all the time :) Mar 18 19:39:43 andre__: not too suprising, considering the quality of the ideas posted Mar 18 19:39:53 quality+quantity Mar 18 19:40:05 there was definetely some good ones there as well :) Mar 18 19:40:07 jonnor, yeah, I had the same expectation Mar 18 19:40:14 when you have a job like compiling that jumps around all over the place doing different things, you will often see the cpu scaling jump around all over the place Mar 18 19:40:15 ali1234, I expected the combination of meegoisms to make the operation slower Mar 18 19:40:21 jonnor: we missed created a critical mass of good proposals Mar 18 19:40:21 but it was faster hence my surprise :) Mar 18 19:40:38 this leads to innefficient use of CPU Mar 18 19:40:54 also cpu scaling under maemo is about saving power, not getting the job done Mar 18 19:41:15 andre__: yeah Mar 18 19:41:20 jonnor: plus I didn't have enough time to pimp up the wikipages :-/ Mar 18 19:42:32 well, at least I have a bit more of free time then :-P Mar 18 19:42:48 ali1234, am running it in performance mode just to confirm Mar 18 19:43:18 make sure that disk cache is configured the same way on each too Mar 18 19:43:27 and that the background processes are behaving the same way Mar 18 19:43:41 otherwise you can't just say "meego is faster because of the file system" Mar 18 19:44:12 head brick wall Mar 18 19:44:14 in fact you can't say anything at all about the relative speed of a single part of the system in isolation Mar 18 19:44:18 this is just showing something Mar 18 19:44:32 "take maemo, do this this this and this" and it takes X Mar 18 19:44:40 "take meego, do this this this and this" and it takes Y Mar 18 19:44:50 Y is much lower than X Mar 18 19:44:55 that's funny, because it sounded like you were using this as evidence that meego's filesystem is faster than maemo's Mar 18 19:44:55 for the same operations I tested Mar 18 19:45:22 i got this impression when you said "from what I can gather, MeeGo filesystem is quite substantially faster than same machine running Maemo (at least for the tests I just ran)" Mar 18 19:45:45 well, it does. I was frustrated hearing people say that it was slower. Mar 18 19:45:54 and surprised myself at it not being :) Mar 18 19:46:23 your tests are completely inconclusive on this issue, as i just explained Mar 18 19:47:38 tbh i have no idea if btrfs is faster or slower or what Mar 18 19:48:08 all i know is that running with / on sd has quite a big impact on read speeds Mar 18 19:48:23 which is what determines things like "how fast does it boot" and "how quickly do programs load" Mar 18 19:48:30 ali1234, this is like getting in 2 new cars out of the showroom cars and driving round a track - at the moment MeeGo out of the box did almost 2x better Mar 18 19:48:35 but has little impact on operations like "compiling a library" Mar 18 19:48:46 if you want to take Maemo into a garage and tweak scientifically, be my guest Mar 18 19:49:19 hell no Mar 18 19:49:25 I am actually pleased that we have MeeGo at the point where this sort of like for like comparisons are possible! Mar 18 19:49:48 btw, maemo in performance mode barely touches the timing Mar 18 19:50:01 what you are doing is like getting 2 brand new sports cars and comparing their relative ability to pull heavy machinery Mar 18 19:50:33 and then concluding from the results that one is better than the other because of the colour of the paint Mar 18 19:51:19 ali1234, show me proper benchmarks then Mar 18 19:51:56 well i would start with hdparm on the block device to get a baseline of the read/write speed Mar 18 19:52:02 cool Mar 18 19:52:29 I am actually done compiling what I needed to anyway, it was just curiosity that I timed them Mar 18 19:52:40 ping me when you get some benchies yourself \o Mar 18 19:52:52 heh Mar 18 19:53:06 i'm happy to live in ignorance Mar 18 19:53:38 if you are too that's fine by me Mar 18 19:54:03 ali1234, why is it ignorance? Mar 18 19:54:19 Hah, I just found my music collection :D Mar 18 19:54:34 because your "results" are meaningless because you didn't follow the scientific method Mar 18 19:54:37 20G worth of CDs most of which I lost went I moved. Mar 18 19:54:42 therefore we learned nothing from your tests Mar 18 19:54:51 therefore we are just as ignorant as we were before :) Mar 18 19:54:55 ali1234, I installed the required bits to make a compiler work Mar 18 19:54:57 and ran make Mar 18 19:55:07 that is as scientific as needbe on any linux system Mar 18 19:55:23 we know meego compiles things faster, we don't know why though Mar 18 19:56:09 * lcuk happy with "magic" Mar 18 19:56:21 good :) Mar 18 19:56:26 * lcuk gives mad props to N900 adaption team ;) Mar 18 19:56:31 then we are in agreement :) Mar 18 19:57:01 when you have a real result as I say, ping me Mar 18 19:57:46 don't hold your breath :) Mar 18 19:58:26 there are 483 others who might want to know the real reason too and hopefully me digging might encourage one of them ;) Mar 18 20:55:52 any intel guys in here? Is it possible to run X on the CE41x0? Mar 18 21:25:03 What's the IRC nick of Jayabharath Goluguri? Mar 18 21:29:47 sjokkis: look on the who's who wiki page Mar 18 21:31:28 CosmoHill: it was just his first name, actually Mar 18 21:31:31 but thanks Mar 18 21:49:54 did we get to GSoC? Mar 18 21:56:15 thiago_home: ML post says no, meego didn't make it. Mar 18 21:57:43 melhortoo bad Mar 18 21:57:47 oops Mar 18 21:57:48 too bad Mar 18 22:00:41 it's a conspiracy no doubt Mar 18 22:01:21 * gabrbedd wasn't going to go there Mar 18 22:07:05 vgjvghgj Mar 18 22:27:42 * w00t_ "relaxes" Mar 18 22:28:03 finally got a bunch of the scary, overdue TODO items on my list done, then I realise just how many more of them I haven't done lately Mar 18 22:28:09 I hate that feeling Mar 18 22:28:34 how are we all? seems quiet in here this evening Mar 18 22:30:13 you ruined it Mar 18 22:30:22 * w00t_ pokes haltdef Mar 18 22:30:25 long time no see Mar 18 22:31:03 what, I've been lurking in here for weeks now Mar 18 22:31:05 how rude :( Mar 18 22:32:21 haltdef: I can kick you if you desire Mar 18 22:32:40 * w00t_ ponders hacking on libseaside some more Mar 18 22:33:03 DawnFoster: ping, are you here? Mar 18 22:33:26 auke: o/ Mar 18 22:33:47 DawnFoster: have we announced the extension? Mar 18 22:33:50 hey auke Mar 18 22:34:05 thiago_home: I haven't read anything about it Mar 18 22:34:12 and I tend to keep on top of RSS/mail Mar 18 22:35:58 we're at 115 sessions Mar 18 22:36:09 so great showing today Mar 18 22:36:18 but I've told some people that they had more time Mar 18 22:36:29 * w00t_ told some people, too Mar 18 22:36:30 I want a few QML sessions from my team in... Mar 18 22:37:06 though I think that's also one reason you got a good proportion of the 115.. :p Mar 18 22:37:37 * lbt checks the 'Infra' proposal.... X-Fade thought we had more time to finish that Mar 18 22:38:26 mmm ... no abstract.... Mar 18 22:38:37 we did manage to triple the number of submissions compared to yesterday morning Mar 18 22:42:24 I think amy was going to announce the extension Mar 18 22:43:26 DawnFoster: could you poke her? Mar 18 22:43:59 (gently) Mar 18 22:44:12 what a gentleman Mar 18 22:45:01 knowing amy, I know she's very busy with everything and it's not like she needs more things to do Mar 18 22:45:25 DawnFoster: oh, btw, are you coming to LCS? Mar 18 22:45:34 DawnFoster: want more Norwegian chocolate? Mar 18 22:45:58 ha! Mar 18 22:46:16 I am coming to LCS, but probably don't need more chocolate :) Mar 18 22:46:25 I appreciate the offer, tho Mar 18 22:46:37 but then I'd have to spend more time at the gym working it off. Mar 18 22:46:52 you know, it's only 200g or so... Mar 18 22:47:02 DawnFoster, since you got a virtual offer of chocolate, don't you now need to browse the gym website to work it off? Mar 18 22:47:49 hey, I'm trying to be good here! Mar 18 22:49:11 being good is overrated Mar 18 22:49:19 * w00t_ would have that norwegian chocolate in a heartbeat Mar 18 22:50:05 w00t_: when are you or kamilla coming to oslo? Mar 18 22:50:24 soonest will be around july, probably Mar 18 22:50:32 she has to graduate first Mar 18 22:50:57 thankfully, we're very very close to that, after ~4 years of being rained on Mar 18 22:51:01 * w00t_ cannot wait to leave the country :-) Mar 18 22:51:15 * thiago_home would leave some in Helsinki for w00t_ if he knew it wouldn't "disappear" Mar 18 22:51:40 those darn sneaky finns... Mar 18 22:52:21 w00t_, step over the border from Hull and into England :P Mar 18 22:52:29 lcuk: haha Mar 18 22:52:40 it's admittedly wetter here than anywhere else, I think Mar 18 22:53:09 * w00t_ cannot get over how much faster the virtual keyboard seems nowdays Mar 18 22:53:17 you don't visit Manchester often enough Mar 18 22:53:42 vkb is quite awesome now, lots of hard work gone into optimising it Mar 18 22:53:44 what happened with the meetup suggestion there? Mar 18 22:53:53 sunday 2pm MOSI Mar 18 22:53:57 whaaaaat Mar 18 22:53:59 this sunday? Mar 18 22:54:01 arrrgh Mar 18 22:54:18 yea, good excuse for a pint Mar 18 22:54:23 I thought I mail subscribed to the thread, I guess not Mar 18 22:55:10 I'll see if I can organise that tomorrow, dunno if I can make it though as we were hitting the movies Mar 18 22:55:18 but yes, would be nice Mar 18 22:57:50 w00t_, it is a bar finding mission really, since there haven't been any meetups around Manchester need to find somewhere nice to sit Mar 18 23:01:33 :) Mar 18 23:12:36 w00t_, eep seems it is not at MOSI afterall (see I am subscribed and still did not know :P) it is at Knott bar just round the corner Mar 18 23:15:35 http://sf2011.meego.com/news/call-proposals-has-been-extended-meego-conference Mar 18 23:15:51 we're giving everyone an extra week to submit Mar 18 23:15:56 thanks dawn (and amy) Mar 18 23:16:08 it's all Amy :) Mar 18 23:16:16 I'm just the one hanging out on IRC Mar 18 23:16:18 * thiago_home did get an email from a colleague saying "sorry, I didn't have time, maybe next year" Mar 18 23:16:31 I answered: "you're not off the hook, we're extending the deadline" :-) Mar 18 23:16:39 haha Mar 18 23:16:43 nice! Mar 18 23:16:56 * w00t_ still has no idea what to talk about Mar 18 23:17:18 I asked him to submit about QML2 (QML with Scene Graph and all the goodies we're developing) Mar 18 23:17:28 scene graph is nice :) Mar 18 23:17:43 happy to see the picture with wayland starting to come together a bit more, too Mar 18 23:17:59 the scene graph lead will probably submit a bof (he said he doesn't have time to make a presentation *and* finish scene graph) Mar 18 23:18:11 yeah, jørgen submitted his talk today too Mar 18 23:18:45 I guess he and krh will have a lot to chat about Mar 18 23:19:25 :-) Mar 18 23:21:16 DawnFoster: please ask amy if she wants chocolate :-) Mar 18 23:22:46 thiago_home: Amy says "Yes!!! Please. it's AMAZING" Mar 18 23:22:54 :) Mar 18 23:23:01 see, dawn? Mar 18 23:23:06 that was supposed to be your answer :) Mar 18 23:23:16 :) Mar 18 23:24:12 i seem to be utterly incapable of getting anything more done today, heh Mar 18 23:24:41 DawnFoster: she's half Norwegian, she has to like it :-) Mar 18 23:25:02 DawnFoster: if she doesn't come to LCS, will you take it back to Portland for her? Mar 18 23:25:29 i dunno, that dawn doesn't seem an entirely trustworthy character around chocolate :-P Mar 18 23:25:32 I'm almost positive she'll be at LCS - we're doing a bunch of stuff there Mar 18 23:25:36 w00t_, that WAS her answer, but the damn autocorrect Mar 18 23:25:46 w00t_'s right - I can't be trusted :) Mar 18 23:26:20 you just said you didn't want it Mar 18 23:27:04 anyway, I can't be blamed for your extended gym time if you steal her chocolate Mar 18 23:27:05 :-) Mar 18 23:27:18 anything I can bring to you then? Mar 18 23:28:03 no, I'm in good shape, but thank you for offering! Mar 18 23:28:15 ok, then Qt stickers it is Mar 18 23:28:17 :-) Mar 18 23:28:55 oooh, I wonder if we should print more stickers for collab summit Mar 18 23:29:19 * w00t_ notes he needs a new Qt sticker for his n900 Mar 18 23:29:25 my old one has started to scratch off Mar 18 23:30:01 it is ... not so cute *takes off sunglasses* Mar 18 23:30:06 the one I had in the inside of my laptop scratched off in 2 months. The one on the outside (back of the screen) is a year and counting. Mar 18 23:30:31 inside of laptop, good idea Mar 18 23:30:35 I'm missing a few there :-P Mar 18 23:30:51 the KDE one I put where the Windows sticker was is holding fine Mar 18 23:31:05 I scratched all the windows off my sticker Mar 18 23:31:08 it's now just a white blob Mar 18 23:31:15 (which looks kind of cool) Mar 18 23:31:34 I didn't scratch it. I peeled it off while Linux was installing, the very first day I got this laptop... Mar 18 23:31:47 well I didn't really scratch it either Mar 18 23:31:50 it rubbed off over time Mar 18 23:32:00 I left it on to see what would happen Mar 18 23:32:23 the Intel and NVidia stickers fared much better Mar 18 23:32:46 my "Intel Centrino inside" sticker is always found slightly crooked Mar 18 23:32:56 it keeps turning... Mar 18 23:32:59 haha Mar 18 23:33:06 I had that problem a few laptops ago Mar 18 23:33:15 I ended up just pulling it off and sticking it on the screen bezel Mar 18 23:33:50 but now I want one that says "Sandy Bridge inside" (and is true) Mar 18 23:34:44 the new mbps are sandy bridge, aren't they? Mar 18 23:34:50 yep Mar 18 23:34:56 * w00t_ is looking at buying one Mar 19 00:44:50 anyone got qgil's US number? he's based in sunnyvale, right? Mar 19 01:38:46 hi, I'm using the public build service and I added a meego 1.0 repository to my project but it won't build (it won't even show any info about building against Meego 1.0), any suggestions? Mar 19 01:41:17 pavlix: can you link to your project? Mar 19 01:41:51 ali1234: https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=home%3Apavlix Mar 19 01:42:22 I'm new, so you may encounter beginner errors there Mar 19 01:42:37 well, you might need to wait a while before the server gets around to processing your stuff Mar 19 01:42:43 not sure... Mar 19 01:42:51 i think it should say that the packages are queued Mar 19 01:43:51 or scheduled Mar 19 01:43:58 I was working with Meego 1.1 before that and it always showed me at least some status in several seconds Mar 19 01:44:47 ah did you just add in 1.1 again? Mar 19 01:44:50 yep Mar 19 01:45:12 yeah, something odd going on there Mar 19 01:45:13 but I left 1.0 also Mar 19 01:45:53 anyway, Fedora 14 would not add at all, but that's not so important for me Mar 19 01:46:02 weird Mar 19 01:48:48 4 packages are blocked Mar 19 01:49:00 https://build.pub.meego.com/monitor Mar 19 01:49:06 https://build.pub.meego.com/monitor/old actually shows details Mar 19 01:50:37 well, i can't really suggest anything... you need an obs expert, i am barely even a beginner Mar 19 01:51:04 that sound bad Mar 19 01:51:12 it would not surprise me if the 1.0 repo was somehow broken though Mar 19 01:52:13 1.0 was a bit of a mess really, nobody really knew how to build it from scratch, and the core obs was not visible to the public at that time Mar 19 01:52:37 my gobject introspection package stopped even building for 1.1 for me Mar 19 01:52:41 it doesn't matter anyway Mar 19 01:52:46 hmm really? Mar 19 01:53:03 it failed though right? Mar 19 01:53:47 error: Installed (but unpackaged) file(s) found: Mar 19 01:53:50 i hate that error Mar 19 01:53:59 it failed but with an error that doesn't make sense to me Mar 19 01:54:25 when you build an rpm you have to provide a list of all files that will go in the rpm Mar 19 01:54:27 I don't think this version is distributing source code with a binary package Mar 19 01:54:46 if the build system creates more files than the ones you listed you get this error Mar 19 01:54:47 these are source files Mar 19 01:55:03 you must either add them to the file list if you want them in the rpm or delete them after the build step if you don't Mar 19 01:55:10 and I would think it already wored Mar 19 01:55:13 what the files are is irrelevant :) Mar 19 01:55:18 no Mar 19 01:55:22 it tried to install them Mar 19 01:55:31 this is all rpmbuild cares about Mar 19 01:55:36 the source code is usually not installed by make install Mar 19 01:55:42 usually Mar 19 01:57:55 let's wait for the local build's results Mar 19 02:05:12 ali1234: why does https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=MeeGo%3A1.1%3ACore say it has no packages yet? Mar 19 02:06:06 pavlix: i think because it is just a set of binary rpms Mar 19 02:06:38 pavlix: the community OBS doesn't build all of meego from scratch, it reuses the binary rpms from core repos Mar 19 02:06:52 so there is nothing actually being built in there Mar 19 02:07:58 ali1234: can one actually see what it's using, or it's some hidden magic? Mar 19 02:08:25 it used to be hidden magic but not you can look on the core OBS at the whole build process: Mar 19 02:08:30 http://build.meego.com Mar 19 02:08:42 s/not/now/ Mar 19 02:09:14 ali1234: ok, thanks, but can I see somewhere at build.pub, that a project is using binary rpms from elsewhere? Mar 19 02:09:30 you can look at the project config Mar 19 02:09:56 https://build.pub.meego.com/project/prjconf?project=MeeGo%3A1.1%3ACore Mar 19 02:10:29 basically all the stuff under advanced Mar 19 02:10:35 making sense of it is hard though Mar 19 02:10:43 doesn't mean much to me i'm afraid Mar 19 02:13:27 thanks, it doesn't mean much to me eigher, but at least I'm getting a breaf idea how it may work :) Mar 19 02:15:22 pavlix, what are you building in there? Mar 19 02:16:02 lcuk: just some specific versions of packages, I need sufficiently new clutter & mx Mar 19 02:16:42 ali1234: I was wrong about the source file..... fixing the spec file does the job Mar 19 02:17:24 pavlix, cool Mar 19 02:19:07 lcuk: I'm a total newcomer to OBS, but I'm getting better :) Mar 19 02:20:57 pavlix, how did you build your app before OBS? Mar 19 02:22:16 lcuk: I'm not using it for my app, but only for new versions of various libraries.... before that, I used either configure&make or jhbuild or rpmbuild Mar 19 02:23:32 what's the easiest way to get the repo file for my project? Mar 19 02:24:15 sorry, I'm there :) Mar 19 02:25:12 unfortunately, I can't probably use it anyway, as I have Meego 1.0 for development, not 1.1 Mar 19 02:25:37 http://repo.pub.meego.com/home:/pavlix/meego_1.1_core_Netbook/ Mar 19 02:25:58 but in general, from your info page, click repositories tab at the top Mar 19 02:26:06 then the specific repo details page Mar 19 02:26:11 then there is a link to the download repo Mar 19 02:29:19 lcuk: yep, this works **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Mar 19 02:59:56 2011