**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Mar 20 02:59:57 2011 Mar 20 03:36:17 * lcuk smiles and heads to bed \o Mar 20 03:36:28 * w00t_ doesn't Mar 20 03:36:40 o_O Mar 20 03:36:49 what is keeping you up Mar 20 03:36:56 you already know why I am around Mar 20 03:37:04 * w00t_ is working Mar 20 03:37:24 * TSCHAKeee listens to Tangerine Dream: Poland Mar 20 03:37:45 * lcuk got di.fm on Mar 20 03:38:10 oldschool house channel Mar 20 03:40:17 nice :) Mar 20 03:40:27 * TSCHAKeee was listening to Mr. Fingers earlier **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Mar 20 06:06:09 2011 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Mar 20 06:06:31 2011 Mar 20 06:14:24 how easily would Medco support an FM transiever Mar 20 06:14:38 *meego Mar 20 06:15:20 assuming that all of the right drivers were supplied Mar 20 07:24:42 Hello Everyone! Mar 20 07:24:48 morn Mar 20 07:25:17 I have a few questions about meego,.. imagine that! Mar 20 07:25:31 ask away Mar 20 07:25:43 Great thanks Stskeeps! Mar 20 07:25:53 * dm8tbr tries to act surprised! Mar 20 07:26:11 I was wondering, the main page, the initial 'home' page... what kind of info will that display. Mar 20 07:26:31 (i am downloading meego now, and intend to try it on one of my old netbooks) Mar 20 07:27:00 Obviously things like appointments, and email and such, but what else? Mar 20 07:28:06 not sure on netbook :) Mar 20 07:28:11 * Stskeeps heads with handset side Mar 20 07:29:29 I see... What info do you have on your handset then? Mar 20 07:29:33 ah, netbook. didn't use it that much Mar 20 07:30:54 I used to have an nlited version of XP on it, but even that eventually clogged up the hard drive. Mar 20 07:31:53 And the thing sits around gathering dust... I recently found it's a great addition to the stereo set up, constantly playing tunes from grooveshark.com Mar 20 07:45:12 help me please Mar 20 07:46:15 is there somebody help me? Mar 20 07:46:25 ask your question please Mar 20 07:51:11 i want to chat whit hot girl Mar 20 07:51:44 how can i find hot girl? Mar 20 07:51:46 lovelym55: then you came to the wrong place, we're mostly full of geeks here Mar 20 07:52:28 lovelym55: please try yahoo chat or the likes :) Mar 20 07:53:15 who? Mar 20 07:53:56 i want to see hot girl in her webcam Mar 20 07:54:34 sorry, this is not the place for that :) please go to google.com and type in what you are searching for Mar 20 07:55:22 buy this is single chatroom Mar 20 07:55:32 no it's not Mar 20 07:55:39 but.excuse me Mar 20 07:55:55 i saw it now Mar 20 07:56:05 this is a chatroom for the MeeGo project, a mobile operating system, not a chatroom for singles Mar 20 07:56:18 as an example, i'm married Mar 20 07:56:41 what do you do? Mar 20 07:56:57 we develop computer software Mar 20 07:56:57 disiner Mar 20 07:57:06 where? Mar 20 07:57:13 meego.com Mar 20 07:57:25 from? Mar 20 07:57:27 so, you do understand now that this is not a chatroom for singles? Mar 20 07:57:49 how? Mar 20 07:58:21 ok. bye thanks Mar 20 07:58:29 bye Mar 20 08:27:50 good morning Mar 20 08:30:58 Morning, all Mar 20 09:28:45 hello, who can help with creating account for OBS? Mar 20 09:37:22 kkv: you need to talk to lbt, Mar 20 09:38:26 ok, thanks Mar 20 09:39:44 hi kkv Mar 20 09:40:04 sure - for opensource applications? Mar 20 09:40:49 and this is the community OBS, not core Mar 20 09:41:16 nb ... chatting here is fine Mar 20 09:41:38 ah.... did we chat on email a few weeks ago ? Mar 20 09:42:33 Heh Mar 20 09:43:02 kkv: here... ? Mar 20 09:43:22 yes im here Mar 20 09:43:27 :) Mar 20 09:43:31 you said http://osll.spb.ru/ Mar 20 09:43:35 yeap! Mar 20 09:43:45 so welcome to #meego then Mar 20 09:43:54 Pavel writes to u Mar 20 09:44:10 I think we discussed that you need a meego.com account per person ... so if you have that then I'll enable it... Mar 20 09:44:11 and we decided to have personal accounts Mar 20 09:44:19 heh Mar 20 09:44:25 do u remember? Mar 20 09:44:29 I do Mar 20 09:44:36 great! Mar 20 09:44:46 so ... what's your account? Mar 20 09:44:48 my account in meego is kkv Mar 20 09:44:59 OK - done Mar 20 09:45:09 i'll try Mar 20 09:45:13 thanks Mar 20 09:48:04 kkv: ... I'm not sure if MeeGo has any specific way for academic groups to relate to the project yet. Maybe you or Pavel should contact DawnFoster and just say "hi". Mar 20 09:48:42 My screen is full of three letter nicknames, I just have to say something to make everything not look the same Mar 20 09:48:44 just to establish a friendly link - it's not compulsory :) Mar 20 09:48:53 It works! thanks Mar 20 09:48:57 tln's are the best! Mar 20 09:49:06 kkv: good :) Mar 20 09:49:07 I will definitely write to him (: Mar 20 09:49:19 hehe russian smiley .... Mar 20 09:49:27 In my plans to have students stream on meego Mar 20 09:51:20 bbl8r Mar 20 09:51:20 not russian , it's my personal style... I dont remember how it happened Mar 20 09:51:20 lbt: or just contact meego-community@ Mar 20 09:51:34 * Stskeeps evolved from :-) to =) to :) Mar 20 10:13:47 who have experience in building meego images? Mar 20 10:14:21 is it possible in "home environment"? Mar 20 10:15:10 yes, mic2 Mar 20 10:15:29 what's mic2 Mar 20 10:16:16 meego image creator :) Mar 20 10:16:50 o! thanks will investigate Mar 20 11:41:11 so I see the #meego-fi guys have started working on a QML schedule app for the summit there next month Mar 20 11:41:13 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT315u6aF5o Mar 20 11:41:35 if anyone has hands and skills to try and advance this it would be awesome http://gitorious.org/meegosummitfi Mar 20 11:42:38 *nods* Needs a good deal more work, but not a bad idea anyway :) Mar 20 11:44:56 leinir, if you were using gluon to do this, what would a schedule app look like? Mar 20 11:45:22 Hehe, well, in that we use QML for game UI, it probably wouldn't look that different :) Mar 20 11:45:45 leinir, well game ui sometimes needs to show info panels and even high score tables and stuff Mar 20 11:45:55 so there are sometimes needs to do normal ui Mar 20 11:46:08 so - would it be feasible to do a schedule app in gluon? :P Mar 20 11:46:11 *nods* Indeed - why we're using qml :) Mar 20 11:46:28 well, i guess it would *giggles* just not sure it'd make sense, so much :) Mar 20 11:46:30 ahhh I see Mar 20 11:47:48 Since the schedule would be all game UI and no game, really... :) Mar 20 11:49:42 leinir, are you really sure? Like any good game, the map only expands to let you see more events as you progress through the levels Mar 20 11:50:28 until then you can just do gold farming in the corridor-track Mar 20 11:52:01 lcuk: Well sure, it could be made with a sort of map of the event location... and while we don't have that particular component yet, and lack the social integration (all scheduled for alpha3), i can see how that'd be interesting... plot your friends etc on the map, see where they are and what events they're in and so on ;) Mar 20 11:53:39 i can certainly see an unconference management type app built using that... Mar 20 11:54:39 heh Mar 20 11:54:58 That would be pretty awesome using some kind of upnp & conference wifi Mar 20 11:56:46 Hehe, yeah :) Mar 20 11:56:58 well, or a mesh network ;) Mar 20 11:57:08 Yeah, that'd work too I guess. Mar 20 11:57:17 If only you could ascertain which room you're in :) Mar 20 11:58:06 *nods* yeah... it'd probably have to be nokia's super-local location awareness thing... which afaik is still pretty alpha :) Mar 20 11:58:43 I suppose if you have static bluetooth units in each room Mar 20 11:58:46 You could use that :) Mar 20 12:00:38 hmm... that might work too, yeah... a grid of bluetooth units throughout the event space... Mar 20 12:03:21 leinir, mesh network == No - ad-hoc networking is barred based on connman Mar 20 12:03:43 What? LAme Mar 20 12:03:52 adhoc networking is a must! :( Mar 20 12:04:00 leinir, mapping the known wifi hotspot locations should give the indoor location stuff Mar 20 12:04:32 bug 440 Mar 20 12:04:35 <_MeeeGoBot_> Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=440 enh, Low, ---, sameo, ASSI, Unable to support ad-hoc mode for WiFi Mar 20 12:04:57 alterego, the replacement "Wifi Direct" which is secure version is in need of some loving Mar 20 12:05:19 I don't want a secure version :P Mar 20 12:05:23 bug 12686 was not allowed either Mar 20 12:05:24 I just want it to work :) Mar 20 12:05:25 <_MeeeGoBot_> Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12686 enh, Undecided, ---, gavin.hindman, RESO REJECTED, [FEA] Wifi Ad-hoc Missing from ConnMan Mar 20 12:06:01 Wifi Direct (bug 4729) is still in INDEFINITION Mar 20 12:06:03 <_MeeeGoBot_> Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4729 enh, Undecided, ---, prahlad.gokul, INDE, [FEA] WiFi Direct (WLAN P2P) Support Mar 20 12:06:31 but thankfully, Qt 4.8 WILL support multicast networks Mar 20 12:06:54 but you cannot use them with ad-hoc on meego where you could potentially gain most benefit :( Mar 20 12:07:22 (I did quite some research into networking to try and get this usecase) Mar 20 12:08:16 Multicast support for its new QUdpSocket class in Qt4 http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-7 -> http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-8652 Mar 20 12:09:02 Hrm Mar 20 12:09:12 When is Qt 4.8 scheduled? Mar 20 12:09:19 Seems like only yesterday we were using 4.6 Mar 20 12:09:26 Oh wait, that was a year ago :D Mar 20 12:11:22 hehe alterego Mar 20 12:11:27 indeed it feels like yesterday Mar 20 12:12:17 lcuk: yup, pretty stupid choice by some guy who thinks he knows best Mar 20 12:12:49 alterego: What is this "scheduled" of which you speak? ;) Mar 20 12:13:10 :) Mar 20 12:13:25 * alterego wonders what the big thing with 4.8 will be Mar 20 12:13:36 I reckon Qt 3D stuff Mar 20 12:13:39 lcuk: as for mapping the wifi networks, that's not as straight forward as it sounds... Very common uni project, and they basically all come down to "Yeah, can't be done, chaos and concrete walls get in the way" ;) Mar 20 12:13:49 Hehe, Android and iOS support? ;) Mar 20 12:14:02 leinir, you never let a concrete wall stop you from trying did you? Mar 20 12:14:21 and leinir depending on the conf location and hotspot placement Mar 20 12:14:22 Ostensibly anyway, it's big thing to me is lighthouse :) Mar 20 12:14:25 you can remove walls Mar 20 12:14:57 lcuk: it's just that you need a complete heatmap of the entire site... it's too site specific to be generally useful, very annoying Mar 20 12:15:01 more than qt I expect to see real apps :P Mar 20 12:15:16 leinir, depends Mar 20 12:15:29 if you setup the map once in a conference centre Mar 20 12:15:35 then any conference in that location can use it Mar 20 12:16:01 if done well it can be picked up and used by many groups and OS parties Mar 20 12:16:27 it really isn't that simple... if it was, i'd be all for it, but... yeah, it just isn't :) Mar 20 12:16:34 really wish it was, though ;) Mar 20 12:18:05 :) if everything were simple there would be no challenges lef.t Mar 20 12:18:14 *laughs!* Oh, true :) Mar 20 12:18:44 leinir, did you ever see the stuff from Nokia research on cognitive radio? Mar 20 12:19:16 http://research.nokia.com/page/9401 Mar 20 12:19:46 a great technology that uses local cloud of machines to help get the signal through Mar 20 12:20:02 That's kinda neat, yes :) Mar 20 12:20:36 what is the bet that all that networking stuff I just talked about will be required to do that? Mar 20 12:23:00 The problem isn't getting the data, the problem is linking it to a physical location with precision better than a couple of meters (you know, the difference between being on one side of a wall and another ;) ) Mar 20 12:23:29 and for the use they describe on there, the physical location is irrelevant :) Mar 20 12:23:50 ahem: I quote Serenity on this one: "You can't stop the signal, Mal." If you got signal to someone on either side of the wall you can send data Mar 20 12:24:16 and leinir - we cope with being a few metres off now - GPS works and people just laugh when it says we are driving down the grass verge Mar 20 12:24:28 or actually drive down the grass verge Mar 20 12:24:36 either way, using common sense is good ;) Mar 20 12:24:54 Oh you can, with reinforced concrete ;) Mar 20 12:24:59 lcuk: but unusually not when we're on the wrong side of the road :X Mar 20 12:25:01 * alterego chuckles Mar 20 12:25:33 leinir, good, then if it is reinforced the signal will not be there to send wrong side Mar 20 12:25:38 * lcuk shrugs Mar 20 12:34:16 Flippin' javascript doesn't have integer division O_o Mar 20 12:34:40 well no, because it only has Number as type, which is a floating point value :) Mar 20 12:34:52 Yes, obviously. Mar 20 12:35:39 how ridiculous is that Mar 20 12:37:00 javascript being popular is almost enough to make me believe in a vindictive god.... Mar 20 12:37:29 Crap, and this doesn't even work 100% of the time: (op1 / op2 - op1 % op2 / op2) Mar 20 12:37:31 javascript is much better than most people tend to think :P Mar 20 12:37:41 it's like a joke that went badly wrong Mar 20 12:37:49 leinir: no. it's crap. Mar 20 12:37:55 it's just powerful crap Mar 20 12:37:56 Hi all Mar 20 12:37:58 :D Mar 20 12:38:00 javascript only picked up where visual basic left off :P Mar 20 12:38:02 * leinir thinks it should be required reading for anybody who wants to say anything about javascript to read JavaScript: The Good Bits Mar 20 12:38:07 op1 % op2 is, by definition, < op2 Mar 20 12:38:23 op1 % op2 / op2 < 1 Mar 20 12:38:27 I was thinking if there was a TapAndHoldGesture and at the same time a TapGesture it won't work Mar 20 12:38:29 leinir: yep... there are good bits. It's still crap Mar 20 12:38:29 will it ? Mar 20 12:38:30 if it's integer, it's zero Mar 20 12:38:37 thiago_home: obviously .. Mar 20 12:38:43 thiago_home: this is javascript Mar 20 12:39:04 That code is supposed to return the integer division of two floating point numbers. Mar 20 12:39:24 lbt ++ Mar 20 12:39:29 lbt: and you've not read that book? You're automatically disqualified, sorry ;) Mar 20 12:40:06 I didn't read that book, but I have wasted lots of my time with javascript. I can say for sure that it is crap. Mar 20 12:40:08 leinir: the authors of that book probably read some one elses book. Arguing about someone not reading a specific book is stupid :P Mar 20 12:40:09 leinir: you web programmer you. Mar 20 12:40:15 My personal gripe with it is that it looks in any way C-like, because the language isn't Mar 20 12:40:32 * lbt struggles for a worse insult... Mar 20 12:40:39 alterego: Seriously - read it ;) Mar 20 12:40:51 thiago_home, a % b where a=15 and b=16 gives answer == a Mar 20 12:41:06 wow my battery really sucks Mar 20 12:41:09 /undoline Mar 20 12:41:15 * lcuk misread your doofer :P Mar 20 12:41:23 lcuk ++ Mar 20 12:42:03 leinir: why? will that book tell me how to do a guaranteed integer division? Mar 20 12:44:18 alterego: from the author of that book, Doug Crockford : "if you strip away its shortcomings, what you’re left with is actually an elegant, beautiful little language" .... well "duh"... Mar 20 12:44:49 but anyway... I can haz animated web pages .... yay \o/ Mar 20 12:44:58 lbt: Funnily, the argument is the same for C++ ;) Mar 20 12:45:05 lbt: surely that's true of anything? Doesn't help what it actually is Mar 20 12:45:12 it applies to all languages Mar 20 12:45:15 alterego: that would be my point.... Mar 20 12:45:23 Does this mean you like ECCMA but not JavScript? Mar 20 12:45:25 except the languages on which you're left with nothing Mar 20 12:45:35 thiago_home: that's elegant ;) Mar 20 12:45:43 and undoubtedly little Mar 20 12:45:43 thiago_home: like PERL? :D Mar 20 12:45:56 alterego: basically yes, i would say that's right - the book is about ECMAScript the language, not really about JavaScript as implemented horribly in most web browsers ;) Mar 20 12:45:59 lbt, what language would you like to use for web? Mar 20 12:45:59 Anyhow, this works: (op1 - op1 % op2) / op2 Mar 20 12:46:00 lbt: at that point, it can't be called a language anymore Mar 20 12:46:03 * lbt stabs alterego for sacrilege Mar 20 12:46:18 lcuk: embedded perl Mar 20 12:46:20 s/web/qml/ Mar 20 12:46:21 lcuk meant: lbt, what language would you like to use for qml? Mar 20 12:46:28 So basically: function div(op1, op2) {return (op1 - op1 % op2) / op2} Mar 20 12:46:33 ditto Mar 20 12:46:42 Does that seem good? Mar 20 12:46:48 roger, but is that because of its string handling strength? Mar 20 12:46:52 isn't there a Math.floor? Mar 20 12:47:10 thiago_home: yes .. yes there is .. Mar 20 12:47:10 lcuk: no. it's because TMTOWTDI Mar 20 12:47:12 * alterego chuckles Mar 20 12:47:16 qml should have been xml based, like xaml Mar 20 12:47:20 Math.floor(op1 / op2) * op2 Mar 20 12:47:27 xml also sucks Mar 20 12:47:38 Venemo: I can't tell if you're joking Mar 20 12:47:42 thiago_home: why are you multiplying by op2? Mar 20 12:47:51 alterego: oops :-) Mar 20 12:47:54 lbt, then the only answer is to code up a perl interpreter using javascript! Mar 20 12:48:04 * lbt starts Mar 20 12:48:07 hmm Mar 20 12:48:10 parrot Mar 20 12:48:19 lbt, xml sux less than js Mar 20 12:48:28 Venemo: yes... Mar 20 12:48:29 Venemo: QML was a XML language, until we changed it so that it was human-readable Mar 20 12:48:34 XML = markup Mar 20 12:48:36 JS = language Mar 20 12:48:45 ahhahahaha Mar 20 12:49:03 RST38h, you missed the last few pages of people doing similar Mar 20 12:49:11 thiago_home, I'm sorry to hear that Mar 20 12:49:13 it's sunday Mar 20 12:49:23 You do understand the irony, given that XMLhas been designed as a human readable data representation language? :) Mar 20 12:49:30 lcuk: I guess I have... Mar 20 12:49:36 anyway, I'll be back later Mar 20 12:49:37 RST38h: it failed Mar 20 12:50:22 * lbt goes back to his ruby Mar 20 12:50:28 lbt: something I never doubted Mar 20 12:50:28 ruby also sucks Mar 20 12:50:37 Ruby will also fail. Mar 20 12:50:39 but mainly at the community level :) Mar 20 12:50:47 Ruby is awesome Mar 20 12:50:52 On rails and otherwise. Mar 20 12:51:14 Probably the best dynamic OOO language around Mar 20 12:51:20 s/OOO/OO/ Mar 20 12:51:20 alterego meant: Probably the best dynamic OO language around Mar 20 12:51:35 Ruby is actually very cool ... rubyistas are seriously flawed Mar 20 12:51:36 the very first game I personally purchased for my zx spectrum was called Ruby Runabout :) Mar 20 12:51:49 * lbt thinks lcuk should google more Mar 20 12:51:53 from local papershop for �1 I believe Mar 20 12:51:55 Ruby is one scripting language too many Mar 20 12:52:19 It's better than Perl Mar 20 12:52:22 the sad thing about ruby is that java people seem to like it Mar 20 12:52:27 Perl and Python and PHP are really sufficient Mar 20 12:52:33 PHP is shit Mar 20 12:52:40 Perl is a fuckin' mess Mar 20 12:52:44 Python is a bit of a joke Mar 20 12:52:45 lbt: That is because java people like toy languages Mar 20 12:52:52 Pythons' main problem is it's popularity. Mar 20 12:53:27 alterego <-- must have been a Java coder =) Mar 20 12:53:29 Hell, most of the Perl guys say that Ruby is what Perl should have been. Mar 20 12:53:37 PHP .... mmm ... not convinced that that's not a russian mafia long-term strategy to own the web Mar 20 12:53:38 No, I realy don't like Java :P Mar 20 12:53:59 PHP is useful Mar 20 12:54:06 PERL is useful Mar 20 12:54:24 Python is.... well, useful to somepeople, given what I am seeing Mar 20 12:54:32 Ruby is...meh. Mar 20 12:54:52 PHP, well, it's like JavaScript for service side templating (yuk), Perl, horrible syntax, messy libraries and aweful "programmers". Python good programmers, just a really bad idea of what OO is. Mar 20 12:55:13 perl is useful. python is useful, somewhat. ruby is useful. php makes me want to puke Mar 20 12:55:16 I don't mind Python that much, but some things just make me want to rewrite whole apps in Ruby .. Mar 20 12:55:28 Cobol to rule them all Mar 20 12:55:30 yeah ... try packaging them Mar 20 12:55:49 php is useful whilemaking you want to puke, correct Mar 20 12:56:02 true Mar 20 12:56:13 Luckily I've never had to use PHP, well, not in the past 5 years. Mar 20 12:56:19 But, really, if you keep it clean, it is ok Mar 20 12:56:35 RST38h: like most things it's more about the person using the tools :P Mar 20 12:56:43 true Mar 20 12:56:58 You can screw up in pretty much any language Mar 20 12:57:00 lbt that is the most important thing Mar 20 12:57:01 But all the PHP code I've seen has made me want to walk of the edge of a very tall cliff Mar 20 12:57:04 which people miss Mar 20 12:57:29 Anyhow, this is a bit OT :P Mar 20 12:57:58 All I wanted to do was have a human friendly duration indicator in my QML app :P Mar 20 12:58:11 * lbt really does go back to his ruby ... :) Mar 20 13:00:16 alterego: isn't there a component for that? Mar 20 13:01:21 RST38h: from Qt components? Not using it. Mar 20 13:01:41 RST38h: also it's just to format an integer into '00:00' mm:ss format. Mar 20 13:01:53 hm Mar 20 13:02:35 No, not hours :P Mar 20 13:04:03 I have been under impression that QML already has a set of standard components for all these widgets Mar 20 13:04:09 Am I still wrong? Mar 20 13:04:48 Yes Mar 20 13:05:28 it's getting one Mar 20 13:05:32 Umgh Mar 20 13:05:33 RST38h: QML in built "components": http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qdeclarativeelements.html Mar 20 13:05:58 any idea how to get Multi Gestures ? Mar 20 13:06:00 Qt Components is creating a generic themed widget set Mar 20 13:06:35 But that's not released properly and I'm not even sure what the meego state is now .. Mar 20 13:07:03 * RST38h sighs: that QML announcement may have come a bit too early =) Mar 20 13:07:21 alterego: it's going on well Mar 20 13:07:26 RST38h: which announcement? Mar 20 13:07:31 alterego: QML Mar 20 13:07:32 alterego: we'll talk about it in the meego conf Mar 20 13:07:32 thiago_home: yeah, maybe for Symbian :P Mar 20 13:07:43 thiago_home: oh, neat. Mar 20 13:07:48 alterego: I mean, without a widget set, the whole thing is a bit pointless Mar 20 13:07:54 thiago_home: the problem is I'm writing a QML app for 1.2 :) Mar 20 13:08:09 thiago_home: more specifically probably Nokia N900 MeeGo DE Mar 20 13:08:34 RST38h: that's why the widget set is being developed Mar 20 13:08:43 RST38h: you can't complete it entirely before releasing Mar 20 13:08:48 RST38h: release early, release often, remember? Mar 20 13:09:01 Yea, but this isn't always true Mar 20 13:09:01 thiago_home: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/research/qmldialer/20110227_130312.png Mar 20 13:09:20 Release a car without wheels, and few people will stick around to see those wheels Mar 20 13:09:47 RST38h: bad analogy, this is more like missing seats and internal trimmings :P Mar 20 13:09:58 RST38h: but they give you the tools to create those trimmings how you want :P Mar 20 13:10:06 Ok, s/wheels/seats/ Mar 20 13:10:11 RST38h: or like release the engine and let people make their own cars Mar 20 13:10:23 Which is fine for some things, but stuff that's supposed to be part of the UX (like my dialer) requires theming .. Mar 20 13:10:58 Maybe there is some quickway to wrap standard QWidgets into components? Mar 20 13:10:59 I don't even care about MeeGo buttons, I just want the colour palette. Mar 20 13:12:02 RST38h: it's doable Mar 20 13:12:19 RST38h: however, it's not a very good idea, as standard QWidgets aren't well supported in mobile environments either Mar 20 13:12:39 Oh Mar 20 13:12:58 Haven't we been told to write in standard Qt to provide compatibility between desktop andhandheld? Mar 20 13:13:18 RST38h: that was with Maemo about a year ago :P Mar 20 13:13:36 So, a year has passed, and this is no longer true? Mar 20 13:13:37 that was before QWidgets on mobile became impossible Mar 20 13:13:49 RST38h: things are moving _very_ quickly at the moment. Mar 20 13:13:53 Why are QWidgets impossible on mobile? Mar 20 13:14:18 RST38h: it's just not possible to do with QWidgets what the UX designers want Mar 20 13:14:25 rotation, animation, effects, ... Mar 20 13:14:47 thiago_home: it is, but it's not possible for UX designers to do it themselves ;) Mar 20 13:14:59 Well, given that I am not the UX designer, and just want to write an app Mar 20 13:15:06 Qt has the animation framework as well. Mar 20 13:15:11 It's just you have to know how to use it. Mar 20 13:15:38 Is it true that I can no longer use QWidgets for that? Mar 20 13:15:43 RST38h: no Mar 20 13:16:03 You can still use QWidgets, your problem will be with native UX integration, like themes. Mar 20 13:16:05 you can Mar 20 13:16:10 Ok Mar 20 13:16:22 but your QWidget-based app will not look completely right with MTF-based native UX Mar 20 13:16:23 But this actually isn't an issue for MeeGo, as MeeGo will support QWidget UIS Mar 20 13:16:23 So, QWidgets will not be themeable inside Meego UX? Mar 20 13:16:30 And we have a MeeGo theme bridge. Mar 20 13:16:36 Ahha! Mar 20 13:16:48 we have the theme bridge Mar 20 13:16:51 we have the theme Mar 20 13:16:55 but it just doesn't look right Mar 20 13:17:10 So, if someone wraps QWidgets into QML components, you immediately get a semiusable QML component set? Mar 20 13:17:31 Maybe it will not rotate, but it is still better than no widgets at all,right? Mar 20 13:18:09 right Mar 20 13:18:17 "a tomato is better than nothing" Mar 20 13:18:36 RST38h: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/research/Screenshot-20110128-124225.png Mar 20 13:18:53 RST38h: GLES2 background, QWidget painting into a QML component overlayed on top :) Mar 20 13:19:11 For "apps" I don't think themes are important. Mar 20 13:19:27 but it's probably easier to write the components in proper QML instead of wrapping the QWidgets into QGraphicsProxyWidgets and inserting them into QML Mar 20 13:19:31 Well, for a lot of apps that are basically stand alone UXs Mar 20 13:19:32 and, hey, it's what we're doing Mar 20 13:19:33 Look nice, although I guess it is your own widget not the stock one=) Mar 20 13:19:39 thiago_home: no Mar 20 13:19:47 thiago_home: well, depends if the QWidget already exists. Mar 20 13:20:08 yes, I am talking about the stock Qt widget set, not the new ones Mar 20 13:20:34 alterego: do you really want Plastique look-and-feel on mobile? Mar 20 13:20:39 thiago_home: no :P Mar 20 13:20:55 so we don't actually have the style... Mar 20 13:21:18 thiago_home: most of my apps are all self-contained UXs, like for instance: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/columbus/index.html Mar 20 13:21:22 thiago_home: which is QWidget based. Mar 20 13:21:46 The bottom row of pictures show that I do depend on some stock QWidgets (and some Maemo5 specific ones too) Mar 20 13:22:20 alterego: the top row is perfectly doable in QML Mar 20 13:22:38 thiago_home: I've already done it in QML :P Mar 20 13:22:39 the bottom row isn't, nor with current QWidgets Mar 20 13:22:41 Not those shots. Mar 20 13:23:06 But I've ported my custom widgets to QtQuick components. Mar 20 13:23:23 And had them working in QML Mar 20 13:24:30 alterego, plenty of people are hacking qml in the open, Jaffa just posted the repository for his attitude qml port Mar 20 13:24:52 gitorious.org/attitude if you are interested Mar 20 13:25:21 Yeah, seen it Mar 20 13:25:40 Anyhow, until Qt Components, which is unlikely to be part of MeeGo until 1.3 Mar 20 13:25:46 QML is somewhat annoying .. Mar 20 13:26:07 At least for "core" apps .. Mar 20 13:26:10 Like my dialer . Mar 20 13:27:23 have you made notes/filed bugs about this? Mar 20 13:27:48