**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 02 02:59:57 2011 May 02 04:40:21 morning May 02 05:35:45 mood groaning May 02 06:23:14 <_|Nix|_> Hi! Is there a file in the image that contains the version of the image? i.e., is there a file that contains, for example, meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail-1.1.99.4.20110426.4 ? May 02 07:46:24 Hi. Is it possible to compile the kernel in such way, that it will use USB as a tty? May 02 07:48:02 keks-n: you mean for the boot console? May 02 07:48:19 or just as a TTY where you can bind a getty to? May 02 07:48:24 wassupnari: how's the multitouch going? May 02 07:49:03 It works perfectly :D May 02 07:49:08 Thanks ! May 02 07:49:10 excellent :) May 02 07:49:24 yeah, but we are trying to test another device, May 02 07:49:44 does mtev driver supports xserver version of 1.64? May 02 07:49:58 >>you mean for the boot console May 02 07:49:58 Yep. It prints the output too fast May 02 07:50:16 wassupnari: probably a bit too old May 02 07:50:33 Or anything for qemu that can change the kernel commandline without recompiling it May 02 07:50:51 keks-n: I've seen experimental patches to enable kernel console support but wouldn't recommend them May 02 07:50:57 Stskeeps : yeah, i know. But our HW acceleration is working on that version, so.. May 02 07:51:38 Ok, will try to find a way of warm recompile with only cmdline changed May 02 07:51:41 Stskeeps : possibly.. it might not supported, right? May 02 07:52:00 it doesn't have xinput2 in 1.6 to my knowledge May 02 07:52:10 wassupnari: you should upgrade to 1.9 May 02 07:52:16 Stskeeps : oh, i see May 02 07:52:21 * thiago_home wants 1.11 in MeeGo 1.3 May 02 07:52:26 BTW, it ignores initrd= option May 02 07:52:47 keks-n: usb serial as tty won't work May 02 07:52:53 Stskeeps : yeah, and i also working on virtual keyboard.. May 02 07:53:13 Stskeeps : it is quite "too slow", do you know why? May 02 07:53:44 wassupnari: might be something about self-composition not being enabled, but i can't be sure May 02 07:53:56 Stskeeps : okay, thanks May 02 07:54:51 wassupnari: btw, let your release engineers know that armv7l is gone for meego 1.2, only armv7hl will be there May 02 07:55:04 keks-n: hm, doesn't that uboot thing also work in qemu? that would help with the cmdline May 02 07:55:24 okay :) May 02 07:55:28 I'm not sure about it May 02 07:55:53 I have only the flasher and the image of NAND May 02 07:56:20 Does u-boot can be flashed from the desktop? May 02 08:04:20 Lol, I've compiled it without initrd support May 02 08:04:32 Certainly it ignores initrd parameter May 02 08:21:02 does anyone remember where maemo.org password recovery form is hidden? May 02 08:30:32 cos^, ask on maemo, or did you make a typo? May 02 08:33:54 so now that it seems bug 13833 is fixed and submitted to T:T, Sage how do I check the related SR#16527, do these have a weblink to read about them? May 02 08:33:57 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13833 maj, High, ---, ext-kimmo.jukarainen, RESO FIXED, N900 operating at 500mhz, 16% slower than Maemo May 02 08:34:55 good morning, good people! May 02 08:35:08 goodmorning May 02 08:35:45 morning eskil May 02 08:36:17 I was thinking about how an "app store" could be implemented in Meego.. something like the Saab Iqon.. May 02 08:36:49 What do you guys think of using RPM as a foundation for such a system? May 02 08:37:29 I mean, RPM is already on the platform and provides a lot of nice stuff out of the box May 02 08:38:06 eskil, I thought the native packaging format was .deb? May 02 08:38:07 imagine something like the GUI for aptitude they use in Ubuntu May 02 08:38:14 eskil: you should look into the MeeGo Apps work and OCS May 02 08:38:21 we have packagekit, fwiw May 02 08:38:57 lcuk: perhaps, but RPM comes with MeeGo IVI and it works fine :) May 02 08:39:19 Stskeeps: in the wiki? May 02 08:39:24 eskil: for instance May 02 08:40:08 http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Apps/sprint May 02 08:41:25 Stskeeps: thank you. May 02 08:41:42 eskil: so your interest is app store in IVI? May 02 08:41:53 eskil, rpm is the native universal packaging format across meego, you suggesting to use it for a store would be the normal expected format anyway (the deb comment I made was joke) May 02 08:42:15 Stskeeps, :D Drive through. May 02 08:42:57 Stskeeps: kind of, i'm working on my bachelors thesis May 02 08:42:59 "Hello, can I take your order please" "Yes, a big mac, fries, milkshake and a hannah montana screensaver" May 02 08:43:02 eskil: ah May 02 08:44:02 ahh if ad-hoc was de-facto that would actually be viable May 02 08:44:03 the theme/topic is something like "third party software security on " May 02 08:44:34 eskil: then you'll want meego-security-discussion@ mailing list May 02 08:45:06 oh, that one i have missed. i only subscribe to the IVI list.. May 02 08:46:52 lcuk: https://build.meego.com/request/show/16527 May 02 08:47:19 Sage, thanks, but on that page it says: May 02 08:47:20 Can't get diff for request: May 02 08:47:20 Trunk/kernel-adaptation-n900/45baa40ed18a9e623b535164e6115a13: not in rep May 02 08:48:15 lcuk: well, source/destination are not valid anymore I guess. Not sure if it can be retrieved somehow. You can see the submit or part of it in the meego-commits ML May 02 08:48:16 lcuk: gmail search on meego-commits@ is what i usually do May 02 08:49:02 Sage, Stskeeps thanks. but what I was wondering was into which builds this T:T patch has ended up as for now? May 02 08:50:16 I can bootup an old build and try to run some tests of some sort, then one of the new ones and see if tests are better May 02 08:51:04 or is this patch only in T:T for now? May 02 08:53:29 Stskeeps: the origial issue which led me to the RPM idea was how I could ensure software authenticity.. The various linux package managers seemed to have solved the problem and since meego is based on linux i.. May 02 08:53:31 lcuk: I'm not entirely sure. But day after the commit is accepted to T:T or T I would say for daily images and a week after submit accepted in T May 02 08:53:58 eskil: right - look at the discussion there :) it contains many of those elements May 02 08:55:05 ok sage, so given a specific SR# and patchset, what would be the best way to find out if it is included on an image? is it a case of checking installed versions of components? May 02 08:56:30 what is the SR# ? May 02 08:56:42 lcuk: https://build.meego.com/request/show/16527 May 02 08:57:15 though I just worded the question in the general sense because I know a lot of people wonder about this phase of the process May 02 08:59:36 i didn't understand the meego license. does anyone have any idea about it? May 02 08:59:55 I would say that in T:T daily since Apr 20th, Trunk daily since Apr 29th and Weekly in about this friday or so :) May 02 08:59:58 jsmith: i can talk about a brief overview - what problems do you have? May 02 09:00:35 is it dual license?? May 02 09:01:12 jsmith: so, two parts you need to consider: one, software license (ie, the licenses for the software) and trademark license (are you allowed to use MeeGo trademark) May 02 09:01:51 jsmith: software license is like many other linux distributions, a lot of different open source licenses May 02 09:01:54 lcuk: ^ May 02 09:01:55 Sage, ok so based on that general idea - todays daily testing -de image (which is based on 0428 daily) would not yet include the patch, but in a couple of days it should hopefully? May 02 09:01:59 what does it exactly mean?/ May 02 09:02:09 and we can feel a nice boost in the already nice feeling -de :) May 02 09:02:16 mg-handset-armv7nhl-n900-de-acceptance-1.1.99.5.20110428.10.DE.2011-05-02.1-mmcblk0p.raw.bz2 May 02 09:02:19 jsmith: means meego is open source and you can use it as you want :) May 02 09:02:38 (under the open source conditions) May 02 09:02:57 isn't a dual license?? May 02 09:03:07 what do you mean by 'dual license'? May 02 09:03:09 lcuk: no, that includes it already because we copied the kernel to the de project May 02 09:03:37 jsmith: https://meego.com/about/licensing-policy is a good page to help understand it May 02 09:03:53 jsmith: it's a free platform everyone can use to build products with, no commercial license needed or available May 02 09:04:02 means some of part it's part in open souce and some in proprietory May 02 09:04:41 jsmith: right - the meego.com platform is OSS. some parts like graphics might be meego trademark protected, but is replacable with your own May 02 09:05:10 jsmith: so you don't need any closed source parts to run meego, but your hardware might need them May 02 09:05:15 lcuk: we override the meego kernel a while back because we wanted to get the changes in faster to get them properly tested. May 02 09:06:38 Sage, lol ok so the meego -de is running mostly daily testing, but with the nice upgraded kernel only or are there other forward ported items? May 02 09:07:14 lcuk: https://build.pub.meego.com/project/packages?project=Project%3ADE%3ATrunk May 02 09:07:19 some :) May 02 09:07:22 jsmith: what specific worries do you have? May 02 09:07:55 what is meant by MeeGo User Experience Subsystem Software? May 02 09:08:38 jsmith: it basically means that anything in the user interface has to be permissive license, as in, you don't have to open source the modifications May 02 09:08:56 and can build a differentiated product this way May 02 09:09:29 the exact license will be in each package May 02 09:11:14 lcuk: from those packages it is quite easy to go to the sources and see what is the diff to the meego.com. May 02 09:11:40 k.. now my doubts are almost cleared May 02 09:11:44 Sage, yes I am looking around, thanks \o May 02 09:12:06 generic-backgrounds package is lacking package description May 02 09:12:06 if i have any doubts further more will ask on irc May 02 09:12:09 I should file a bug May 02 09:12:15 Thanks!! :) May 02 09:12:30 https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=generic-backgrounds&project=Project%3ADE%3ATrunk May 02 09:13:48 hmm same for fastinit May 02 09:14:12 * lcuk files bugs May 02 09:14:35 lcuk: package descriptions are messed even in Trunk and not much use May 02 09:14:54 https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=meego-handset-configs&project=Project%3ADE%3ATrunk May 02 09:15:22 well Stskeeps, seeing "LONG DESCRIPTION May 02 09:15:22 GOES May 02 09:15:22 HERE" instead of proper description is odd May 02 09:15:33 that is true, but it is also what the description is on meego.com trunk May 02 09:16:03 yes, I did not think it was a specific adaption/-de issue May 02 09:16:20 in practice, those should be autogenerated from .spec files May 02 09:16:28 so consider making a script to propose those May 02 09:16:28 yeah May 02 09:16:37 there is already May 02 09:16:52 but if the spec file does not include it, I guess it cannot use it May 02 09:16:59 or at least at some point osc asked me that if I want to put desc from .spec to the package. May 02 09:17:03 then it's bad packaging May 02 09:17:04 :P May 02 09:17:12 indeed Stskeeps May 02 09:17:15 Stskeeps: .deb package ;) May 02 09:17:26 deb has short and long descriptions :P May 02 09:17:26 heh May 02 09:17:36 and afaik you have to include both May 02 09:17:49 otherwise dpkg will not build it May 02 09:21:03 ooooh now this is nice, just spotted a mail on the meego-handset ML pointing to: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/QA/Performance May 02 09:21:37 [Meego-handset] MeeGo 1.2 DE for N900 - UX Response Time measurements (wk17) http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-handset/2011-May/000390.html May 02 09:56:03 hi was working in meego and suddenly the netbook is unusable. if i restart am not able to get GUI, May 02 09:56:48 if i go into terminal more (C+A+F1) i can login but it frequently switches back to other term May 02 09:57:02 is there any quick solution to recover ? May 02 09:58:00 i have nt installed any thing strange (new packages) May 02 09:58:46 anybody has come across this? May 02 10:00:36 deepa1: you need to check /var/log/messages and/or Xorg.log.0 May 02 10:02:36 right.. DBus is gone May 02 10:02:52 that is what /var/log/messages shows May 02 10:13:07 vgrade, ping May 02 10:30:25 eg81, in Xorg.log.0 i see this error: kernel/sched.c invoked rcu_dereferenc_check() without protection May 02 10:31:50 eg81, do you know how to recover from this? May 02 10:45:30 <_|Nix|_> pohly: Ping! May 02 10:45:46 pong May 02 10:49:24 hi can anyone help on the issue? May 02 10:49:45 is there a solution to recover other than complete reinstallation? May 02 11:09:40 Stskeeps : hello, are you there? May 02 11:09:48 heya May 02 11:11:03 still testing virtual keyboard. :) If i run the meego-im-ui-server with -use-self-composition option, May 02 11:11:19 then keyboard input works very fast May 02 11:11:23 excellent May 02 11:11:44 mikhas, araujo ^ May 02 11:11:54 aapo too \o May 02 11:11:54 but if i run the mcompositor, then.. screen crashes with white frame. May 02 11:12:03 Stskeeps : do you know why? May 02 11:12:34 wassupnari: hmm, do you have hw acceleration on that device? May 02 11:12:50 Stskeeps : yes, HW acceleration May 02 11:13:12 wassupnari: please get a backtrace/gdb for mcompositor crash May 02 11:15:56 Stskeeps : hm.. i mean.. the screen turned white. May 02 11:16:02 wassupnari: hmm May 02 11:16:27 wassupnari: rpm -qa | grep mcompositor May 02 11:17:47 pohly: http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/PIM/Akonadi May 02 11:18:02 m almost done with my exams (hopefully :D ) May 02 11:18:29 Stskeeps : i have meegotouch-compositor, and i tested meego-ux-compositor, too. May 02 11:18:43 Stskeeps : but i still have problem... May 02 11:19:30 wassupnari, we know you have them, I think Stskeeps meant for you to just show the versions, it helps with diagnosis May 02 11:19:50 although pohly, that architecture diagram seems to be a little bit outdated, May 02 11:19:57 i think it still holds good May 02 11:20:33 lcuk : oh, then i have 0.8.5 version May 02 11:20:37 wassupnari: let's file a bug about it - it sounds like an actual issue in the compositor so May 02 11:22:23 Stskeeps : ah, okay :) thanks thou. May 02 11:23:19 also i will probably write a pkg-build for arch linux (my ubuntu broked down yesterday), and since it is one of the most bleeding edge distros out here, many of those users will be easily supported May 02 11:25:51 wassupnari: that it self-composites fast is a good sign however - did you start mcompositor before or after? May 02 11:28:56 Stskeeps : start after.. May 02 11:29:02 ok, try it before May 02 11:29:22 Stskeeps : actually, i tried both :) May 02 11:29:25 ah, ok May 02 11:29:28 had to check ;) May 02 11:29:53 Stskeeps : okay :) May 02 11:36:09 I'm confused, how come MTF is removed from 1.2 apidocs? May 02 11:36:28 What a mess .. May 02 11:36:28 isn't an API to recommend to write for May 02 11:36:43 presumably because the aim is to discourage people using it May 02 11:36:53 Yes, I get that, but the fact it's there .. May 02 11:36:57 And I Want to view api docs May 02 11:37:08 it's arguably a bigger mess to keep it there and having people constantly asking "hey, should I use this? if not, why is it there" May 02 11:37:08 And I can't because they're not in 1.2 apidocs .. May 02 11:37:17 just look at git-tip/mtf-old/mtf/ May 02 11:37:55 I'm not even sure MTF is what I want tbh May 02 11:38:07 I probably need to do this in X11 May 02 11:38:14 what are you trying to do? May 02 11:38:38 wassupnari, Stskeeps: sounds like frame stealing issue to me May 02 11:38:51 or rather, window redirection mess May 02 11:40:27 w00t_: go to the task switched in handset May 02 11:40:35 s/switched/switcher/ May 02 11:40:36 alterego meant: w00t_: go to the task switcher in handset May 02 11:40:44 Basically, implement the home button. May 02 11:41:03 alterego: i would hope that it has some form of interface to request that (dbus, etc) May 02 11:41:42 if not, try to just minimize your window, and see if that works - since no other windows will be active, you may get lucky May 02 11:45:16 wassupnari, what if you use mcompositor but cut all mcompositor/keyboard? May 02 11:45:51 wassupnari, try "meego-im-uiserver -use-self-composition -manual-redirection -bypass-wm-hint" May 02 11:49:28 Weird, they used ruby for MTF testing May 02 12:03:19 mikhas : oh, i saw your msg now, i'll try that! thanx :) May 02 12:04:33 alterego, for the UI tests, yes May 02 12:04:37 it's called TDriver May 02 12:14:50 mikhas : I tested vkb, now the screen crash problem is not shown, but working very slow again.. May 02 12:17:37 wassupnari, add -software May 02 12:18:23 we have a full array of counter measures for graphics problems in our stuff :-) May 02 12:18:35 mikhas : okay, wait a sec May 02 12:23:45 mikhas : hm.. still ui frame crashes.. but it's getting faster with -software option May 02 12:25:37 wassupnari, broken GLES then? May 02 12:25:48 mikhas Stskeeps : we are using NVIDIA Tegra with armv7hl, and if i using 'mcompositor', then our system become very slow.. May 02 12:26:32 mikhas : i don't think so.. i think there is some problem with window managing.. May 02 12:26:32 that's with hw acceleration? May 02 12:26:44 Stskeeps : yes May 02 12:27:50 Stskeeps, mikhas : Do you guys using some.. special lauch option when you start mcompositor? May 02 12:27:55 wassupnari: readelf -A /usr/lib/libGLESv2.so.1 please May 02 12:28:06 wassupnari: i have a theory on what might be wrong May 02 12:28:19 Stskeeps : okay, give me a sec. May 02 12:32:45 Stskeeps : i have only libGLESv2.so.2 and this is the result : pastie.org/1856464 May 02 12:33:38 hmm. May 02 12:33:45 bacon? May 02 12:35:16 wassupnari: install http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.1.90/1.1.99.4.20110426.4/repos/oss/armv7hl/packages/armv7hl/egl-utils-8.0.1~git60eeb7b306-1.1.armv7hl.rpm and run eglinfo from there May 02 12:35:47 wassupnari: so, either you have gotten custom builds from nvidia of their drivers or you're accidentially running mesa software rendering :) May 02 12:36:03 wassupnari: so i want to see what egl render it claims it is May 02 12:43:13 Stskeeps : oops, my fault. we are using armv5 now, and my colleague will test it. May 02 12:43:26 Stskeeps : btw, i have a question. May 02 12:43:48 Stskeeps : if i don't use hw acceleration, then how can i use mcompositor? May 02 12:45:29 wassupnari: mesa's software rendering is fairly good these days is one theory. the reason i was doubting was that normal ARM binaries don't work on armv7hl (they're incompatible) May 02 12:46:07 wassupnari: but i don't know exactly how your acceleration is set up May 02 12:46:57 so verifying that eglinfo in fact says nVidia is a good start May 02 12:47:26 Stskeeps : okay :) May 02 12:48:06 wassupnari: if you try to use normal softfp arm binaries on hardfp, any function that uses floating point values will get a bad value instead :) May 02 12:50:28 so that might cause weird symptoms May 02 12:51:21 Stskeeps : okay May 02 12:53:37 ok, i have to go for today - please verify eglinfo shows the right render :) May 02 12:53:42 and that should help moving things along May 02 13:04:00 Stskeeps : okay, this is the eglinfo result : http://pastie.org/1856555 May 02 13:05:06 ok, that looks correct May 02 13:06:04 Stskeeps : yeah.. i think so.. :) May 02 13:06:16 wassupnari: i guess this is your armv5 build? May 02 13:06:39 Stskeeps : yes, that's right May 02 13:06:42 ok May 02 13:06:57 and that is source comparable to meego 1.1.90/1.1.99? May 02 13:07:18 Stskeeps : 1.1.99 May 02 13:07:20 ok May 02 13:13:10 are there armv5 build of meego? May 02 13:13:54 not officially but it's fairly easy to do one.. May 02 13:14:04 and it won't be official meego May 02 13:15:41 Stskeeps : hm.. do i have to burn the new(not offecial) version of meego? May 02 13:16:01 Stskeeps : oops, sorry. not for me :) May 02 13:16:36 wassupnari: i think there was some discussion about the compositor and meego input method keyboard, but file a bug with the various package versions in it and we can take it from there May 02 13:17:07 as it might be an actual bug not seen on n900 for instance May 02 13:17:43 Stskeeps : okay :) thanks for your help. Now i have to go home.. :) May 02 13:17:49 have a good evening May 02 13:18:01 Stskeeps : thank you! May 02 13:56:23 lcuk, ping May 02 13:58:19 Yo! Venemo May 02 13:58:38 lcuk, have you had the time to try my app in MeeGo DE? May 02 13:59:01 lcuk, just saying because I'm just about to May 02 13:59:20 No, I have been looking at other matters. May 02 13:59:21 good! May 02 14:00:16 lcuk, that's after I finished polishing it under symbian May 02 14:00:21 cripes, tracys big ball hurt my back. May 02 14:01:23 lcuk, 'cripes' isn't in the dictionary. could you help me out? :P May 02 14:02:46 Venemo: It's kind of a curse word, but one you can say around your mother May 02 14:03:11 aah, thanks gabrbedd May 02 14:03:23 * lcuk has been rolling around on a big pink ball all weekend May 02 14:03:35 and now my spine is all stretched and stuff May 02 14:03:43 Venemo: I think it's literally derived from "Christ" May 02 14:04:02 I thought it was an Englishism for crikey! May 02 14:04:09 but whatever May 02 14:04:44 lcuk: All I know is what google told me. :-) May 02 14:04:46 * lcuk is a few inches taller after stretching May 02 14:07:23 I need to find some coloured nail polish, brb May 02 14:08:02 lcuk, I'm beginning to have more and more desire to deal with MeeGo May 02 14:08:43 Venemo, as you should. May 02 14:08:50 lcuk, the Symbian SDK is so crap compared to the Maemo/MeeGo one May 02 14:09:01 * lcuk ponders between pastel green or shimmering blue May 02 14:09:15 lcuk, it takes 20 minutes for it to compile my app. May 02 14:09:21 lcuk, I am exemplarily out of my patience... May 02 14:09:29 Symbian should die, and the sooner the better. May 02 14:09:30 "meadow green" hmm May 02 14:09:48 Do not worry, it will. And so will Meego. May 02 14:10:04 RST38h, MeeGo? I don't want MeeGo to die. May 02 14:10:08 why do you think the meego sdk is good? May 02 14:10:11 Does not matter May 02 14:10:24 ali1234, because it doesn't take 20 minutes for it to compile my app. May 02 14:10:24 Looks like Moblin will continue living on though May 02 14:10:32 RST38h, what makes you think so? May 02 14:10:36 that's the only reason? it's fast? May 02 14:10:48 ali1234, and it's _working_ OOB May 02 14:10:53 lol May 02 14:11:01 if you can figure out how to install it May 02 14:11:03 ali1234, I had to reinstall the symbian sdk twice to just have it working May 02 14:11:18 ali1234, then I had to copy-paste some .lib file from one directory to another May 02 14:11:24 yes well symbian sdk clearly was rubbish May 02 14:11:32 but May 02 14:11:34 ali1234, s/was/is May 02 14:11:46 why do you think the meego sdk is better than for example, nokia qt sdk? May 02 14:11:50 Venemo: Meego = Maemo + Moblin May 02 14:12:09 Venemo: The Maemo part has been officially buried a few days ago. What is left? May 02 14:12:16 ali1234, well I'm not a huge fan of these SDKs May 02 14:12:17 or the ios sdk, or the wp7 sdk? May 02 14:12:22 RST38h, give me a link that says so. May 02 14:12:51 ali1234, I just have Qt Creator installed from Fedora's repo and Madde from the MeeGo SDK repo. and it's just working. May 02 14:13:11 well, i added a bunch of repos for meego tools, all it did was screw up my OS May 02 14:13:14 Venemo: A moment May 02 14:13:26 i much prefer a single dwnload that installs everything in a private directory May 02 14:13:30 "just working" is a huge plus when comparing to something that doesn't work. May 02 14:13:38 that's what all the SDKs i mentioned do May 02 14:13:42 mhm May 02 14:13:47 they all worked fine May 02 14:13:53 yeah, Nokia Qt SDK is also a very sensible thing May 02 14:13:58 except for its Symbian parts May 02 14:14:06 symbian parts don't even work on linux May 02 14:14:11 yeah. May 02 14:14:15 fortunately :) May 02 14:15:17 Venemo: http://techcrunch.com/2011/04/27/nokia-to-cut-4000-jobs-worldwide-transfers-3000-symbian-jobs-to-accenture/ May 02 14:15:46 RST38h, who the f** cares about nokia anymore? May 02 14:15:47 RST38h: that's the reason why nokia will die, not meego May 02 14:15:59 meego might still die, i haven't decided about that yet May 02 14:16:18 Venemo: Please see the formula above May 02 14:16:20 * w00t_ fetches the popcorn May 02 14:16:26 ali1234: considering that AmigaDOS is still around... May 02 14:16:35 w00t_ ++ May 02 14:16:53 lbt: AmigaOS (not DOS) May 02 14:17:00 RST38h, I don't care what nokia does. they are no way related to meego anymore. May 02 14:17:14 Venemo: Meego without Nokia is basically Moblin. May 02 14:17:25 Venemo: And yes, it will live on, indeed. May 02 14:17:28 RST38h: that too May 02 14:17:52 lbt: Wouldn't call it "life" though, more like "undeath" May 02 14:18:01 RST38h, it isn't moblin anymore May 02 14:18:02 hey qgil... clearly nothing's changed here :D May 02 14:18:23 RST38h, intel has just shut down most of the remaining moblin infrastructure not so long ago May 02 14:18:24 lbt: hi there, changing what? May 02 14:18:34 RST38h, plus, the news you linked mention symbian. it doesn't really talk about meego May 02 14:18:39 Oh, meego's still about to die... you know... the usual May 02 14:18:46 *g* May 02 14:18:55 lbt: and I was wondering what that smell was... May 02 14:18:56 :P May 02 14:19:17 lbt: actually comparison to amiga is quite apt here May 02 14:19:34 disruptive wasn't it :) May 02 14:19:38 amiga was dead since about 1998, except about 10 people on the internet still refuse to admit it May 02 14:20:08 RST38h, please don't spread FUD May 02 14:20:14 lbt: ah yes - well, I rather keep myself working on MeeGo stuff rather than discussing about what could be or not May 02 14:20:23 good idea... May 02 14:21:27 Venemo: hi, and I hope you enjoy flyng with us today :) May 02 14:21:53 qgil, flying? if you refer to the conference, then unfortunately not. May 02 14:22:09 Venemo: I was just referring about having you here today, nothing else May 02 14:22:19 qgil, ah, okay. thank you :) May 02 14:22:47 * w00t_ is starting to panic about SF arrangements May 02 14:23:01 I still need to organise train tickets to actually get to the airport, before they become very expensive May 02 14:23:24 RST38h: thiago has said: "The Register got several things wrong, but I won't say what." (paraphrased) May 02 14:23:35 w00t_: do you live in Hammerfest or...? May 02 14:23:51 garbrbedd: probably notthe overall thing though :) May 02 14:24:05 qgil: lol, no, just that the later you book, the higher they gouge on prices May 02 14:24:17 gabrbedd: what is this Register URL? I'm just starting my Monday - thanks May 02 14:24:31 * alterego is paniking too :P May 02 14:24:40 qgil, morning \o how is the weather over there? May 02 14:24:45 qgil: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/27/nokia_cuts_memo/ May 02 14:25:16 What you would expect after May Day lcuk - if people wouldn't be obsessed about freezing AC it would be just perfect :) May 02 14:25:28 haha May 02 14:25:36 Heh May 02 14:25:50 w00t_: ah, that one May 02 14:26:13 qgil: http://stage.rubyx.co.uk/meego/screenshots/handset/ May 02 14:26:18 qgil: dialer screenshots May 02 14:26:27 I've published my code in gitorious and announced on a couple of the mls May 02 14:26:48 Yes, there are wrong things in that article "but I won't say what" :) May 02 14:27:28 RST38h: alterego: First, believing anything Nokia says 1 year in advance.... YMMV. May 02 14:27:48 gabrbedd: hrm? :P May 02 14:27:54 RST38h: alterego: Second, I honestly think we'll know the future of MeeGo this summer. May 02 14:28:31 gabrbedd, what do you mean? May 02 14:28:43 I don't know why he's talking to me :) May 02 14:30:18 alterego: nice! but I think I can still decipher your phone number ;) May 02 14:30:25 gabrbedd, heck, believing anything Nokia says at all will usually lead you astray. May 02 14:30:27 qgil: yeah .. May 02 14:30:33 qgil: it wasn't brilliant masking :D May 02 14:30:36 alterego: Probably knows I won't buy his attempt at soothing =) May 02 14:30:54 alterego: is this meant to be only cellular or also e.g. sip? May 02 14:31:03 Only cellular May 02 14:31:12 I want SIP in the future :) May 02 14:31:50 qgil: it's basically just exposing the correct interfaces to QML to allow people to write QML based dialer UXs May 02 14:32:13 alterego: looks good: functionality in place and then real users will tell you more, probably May 02 14:32:26 qgil: the code based is a heavily refactored branch of the current handset dialer reference application. May 02 14:32:49 I think I might have the only N900 running MeeGo DE that can receive calls from power on ;) May 02 14:32:56 alterego: looks like accomplishing perfectly well the mission you want for it May 02 14:33:13 Yeah, I'm very pleased it's working. May 02 14:33:16 alterego: sorry... when you said you were panicking too, I thought you were in the RST38h FUD conversation. :-) May 02 14:33:28 gabrbedd: no, panicking about SF :) May 02 14:33:58 dont worry about SF, california is going to fall in the ocean May 02 14:34:05 alterego: Ha ha... me, too May 02 14:34:18 berndhs: But that's planned for Q3 2012 May 02 14:34:33 yes at the earliest May 02 14:34:56 http://m.moconews.net/article/419-nokia-ceo-elop-tablets-are-a-hard-pill-to-swallow/ May 02 14:35:18 berndhs: actually the ocean will take California just as it will take your closest piece of coast May 02 14:35:20 lbt: translation: Microsoft still does not have a tablet version of WP7/WP8 May 02 14:35:49 * lbt doesn't bother speculating ... too little knowledge May 02 14:36:08 lbt: but it's much more fun to speculate.. May 02 14:36:23 lbt: Well, it is not speculation: it is a fact that WP7 is for phones,not tabletsright now May 02 14:36:43 RST38h: that I'm simply ignorant about :) May 02 14:37:02 "We have to take a uniquely Nokia perspective." ... May 02 14:37:03 well, until you told me May 02 14:37:22 You mean, sit and watch as the world goes by :) May 02 14:37:35 yep.... purdy isn't it May 02 14:37:50 all them blinkenlights May 02 14:39:13 lbt: MS Research guy has also said he is not sure if tablets are here to stay May 02 14:39:41 Nothing is here to stay May 02 14:39:47 I don't think they are May 02 14:39:56 But tablets, around the 6" I reckon will be around for a long time. May 02 14:40:05 I guess he meant "staying for long enough for us tomake profit at them" May 02 14:40:30 * alterego would really like a tablet device. May 02 14:40:43 That is the reason I've bough all the NIT range .. May 02 14:41:03 That and I think FOSS is the future :) May 02 14:41:20 I just wish MS would get swollowed up into hell. May 02 14:41:37 So people (incl. me) didn't have to continue supporting them for our customers :/ May 02 14:41:38 Medium term I think phones ala the N900 will dominate tablets. May 02 14:41:54 GAN900: I agree, but if I had the money, I would definitely have both. May 02 14:42:09 * RST38h would only have a 5" phone May 02 14:42:15 No need for more plastic May 02 14:42:18 * alterego visits nokia care site to see if he can return his broken N900 May 02 14:42:26 It's lasted me over a year. May 02 14:42:36 * lbt wants an phone-like device - but when it opens the screen stretches like the N900 keyboard May 02 14:42:39 I've had so many good times with it, I'm going to be really sad if they replace it with an f'ing N8 .. May 02 14:42:50 Ultimately it's all going to be replaced by chips in your brain, though. :P May 02 14:43:23 in your gas mask May 02 14:43:31 alterego, waiting until the Next Big Thing is announced and see if they take pity on you? May 02 14:43:55 It also means I'm going to have to stall my MeeGo developments for a week or so. May 02 14:44:05 Maybe I'll finally complete v1 of Columbus :D May 02 14:46:02 I heard rumours that they were running out of N900 spare parts and some people had received replacement N8s instead :/ May 02 14:46:24 If that's the case, I'd want my N900 back, even without a USB port I'd rather have it than an N8 May 02 14:48:10 ivanich: I was in Odessa once! :) May 02 14:48:22 alterego ++ May 02 14:48:44 :) May 02 14:48:56 Venemo: now, if they wanted to send me both ;) May 02 14:49:38 alterego, heheh. May 02 14:50:07 alterego, in such a case, I'd rather ask for some money back instead of an N8. May 02 14:50:41 the N8 is a pretty slick devices tbh May 02 14:50:54 love the camera and the design of it May 02 14:51:03 device* May 02 14:51:09 It's not that I wouldn't mind an N8, it's that I'd rather have both N900s even if one lacks a USB port May 02 14:51:58 * lcuk \o frals May 02 14:52:34 At least until DE becomes properly usable, which isn't too far away I guess. :) May 02 14:52:44 o/ lcuk May 02 14:57:04 frals, how are you today? May 02 14:58:42 oooh found my mozilla lanyard :D May 02 14:59:16 frals, slick or not, it's useless as anything but a toy. May 02 14:59:54 and a phone May 02 14:59:56 and a camera May 02 14:59:59 and for playing games May 02 15:00:01 etc May 02 15:00:06 media player May 02 15:00:22 lcuk, yes, see above. :) May 02 15:00:27 Probably one my my biggest uses of my "mobile" is listening to audio May 02 15:00:35 * lcuk enjoyed played the chopping fruit game :) May 02 15:01:31 strangely, qt has a bug with multitouch in some apps on the n8 May 02 15:04:10 I'm just listening to Elop talking and he talks abotu how Windows Phone makes developers and engineers excited. May 02 15:04:42 I am sure it does alterego May 02 15:04:44 * lcuk goes making a salad. May 02 15:04:47 I have to say, I'm not particularly excited by the prospect of Windows Phone May 02 15:06:22 But then walking backwards was never something I was interested in :) May 02 15:06:29 alterego: I don't know any developer who is May 02 15:06:38 "Because we pay them lots of money!" May 02 15:06:38 And jumping infront of a train is even less appealing :) May 02 15:06:39 I am probably talking to the wrong crowd though May 02 15:06:48 thiago: yeah, I agree there May 02 15:07:13 otoh, people I have spoken to, friends family, basically end user types. Like the idea that they can get a phone that talks to their xbox May 02 15:07:17 Strangely .. May 02 15:07:18 alterego: I'm sure that the windows fanboy devs are probably excited. But I don't hang around with those guys. May 02 15:07:54 I think people who make apps for a living are probably paying attention May 02 15:08:02 not excited, but paying attention May 02 15:08:07 Yeah, May 02 15:08:18 im not sure why anyone things this nokia + windows deal will work May 02 15:08:24 Well, Elop seemed to indicate that he was getting excitement from CVs coming into Nokia .. May 02 15:08:24 people who are hobbyists and have bought a Mac so they could develop for the iPhone aren't looking into it May 02 15:08:46 they're not going to buy Windows May 02 15:09:03 ping Stskeeps (metrics) May 02 15:09:22 moin, DawnFoster1 May 02 15:10:50 Hahah May 02 15:11:27 Elop "Now MS Windows Phono ecosystem is #3 after the announcement of Nokia WP7 migration" May 02 15:11:46 oh, yeah, I remember him saying that. But third in a 3-man race isn't a very good story. May 02 15:12:00 Yeah, exactly :D May 02 15:12:14 he came to the office here on Friday May 02 15:12:20 especially not when one of those men is a single device May 02 15:12:32 Heh May 02 15:13:13 w00t_: well, that isn't entirely bad, as listening to some Android devs and how frustrating it is targetting multiple device profiles. May 02 15:13:31 iPhone and iPad though, two devices really :P May 02 15:13:42 only one of those is a mobile phone May 02 15:13:48 thiago: What did he say? "Since I've pretty much deprecated everyone's job... I just thought you'd like to shake my hand!" May 02 15:14:34 I'd like to get a job as Elops receptionist, for obvious reasons :) May 02 15:15:21 alterego: so you could bury him at sea? May 02 15:15:27 Heh May 02 15:15:55 No, innocently modifying his "memos" ... :) May 02 15:17:01 :-) May 02 15:18:22 well, those special forces *are* looking for a new target... May 02 15:20:12 Heh May 02 15:20:30 Better make it an easy one this time, 10 years to find your man must be pretty depressing May 02 15:22:27 alterego: Imagine the performance reviews over the 9 years. "Well, let's see... your goals this year were... hmmm... just one. Kill Osama. Did you do that? I don't think you did. NEEDS IMPROVEMENT." May 02 15:22:42 Hahah May 02 15:26:22 alterego: come to think of it... some tricky bugs feel that way. "Hmmm... I just spent 40 hours on a bug that was fixed with 1 line of code. *sigh*" May 02 15:26:41 good morning. May 02 15:36:31 i should go vote today May 02 15:42:23 * npm notices why no new updates... need to change oss repo to 'http://download.meego.com/snapshots/latest-1.2/repos/oss/ia32/packages/' May 02 15:42:37 DawnFoster: sent mail to myself to remember May 02 15:42:50 Stskeeps: sweet, thanks! May 02 15:44:43 X-Fade: lbt says I need to talk to you about SR'ing stratch May 02 15:45:01 X-Fade: what Project would you like me to SR it to? May 02 15:46:07 sabotage: did you see my ml post? :) May 02 15:46:46 alterego: not yet... just getting started on my email May 02 15:46:58 okay ;) May 02 15:47:17 (bloody part time workers) :P May 02 15:47:59 I'm suprised there isn't an "Osama" day in America though May 02 15:49:44 seriously... May 02 15:50:22 Just a silly distraction from real issues. Like spending cuts. . . . May 02 15:50:35 I turned on the TV last night to get to my Netflix queue, and was shocked at the insane coverage and behavior of my own country men at the news May 02 15:51:03 Hey, it is lulz May 02 15:51:04 Yeah, was a bit much seeing loads of people gathered outside the white house acting all doped up .. May 02 15:51:26 Americans absolutely love lulz, what else do you want them to do? Go to a mall and buy stuff? May 02 15:51:44 Lets have a massive party because we killed someone :/ May 02 15:51:51 don't get me wrong, I'm satisfied that he's been eliminated (not happy mind you), but this partying and celebration is just crazy May 02 15:52:13 Asgood a reason as any, if you ask me May 02 15:52:21 Heh May 02 15:53:27 lbt: is X-Fade around? May 02 15:53:43 he never ponged my ping on Friday May 02 15:53:45 alterego, well, I dunno if you can connect with it until you have friends and relatives affected by it. May 02 15:54:08 But I think that's mostly about politics. May 02 15:54:08 I think we're all affected by it. May 02 15:54:49 Unfortunately, yes, we're helping Islamic extremists accomplish their goals quite readily. May 02 15:55:23 * Myrtti sighs at the lack of email May 02 15:55:27 * lcuk has green and blue n900 usb connectors now May 02 15:55:50 * lcuk would send Myrtti email :) May 02 15:59:27 * zehjotkah goes cutting the hair May 02 15:59:37 Good morning all! May 02 15:59:45 The MeeGo San Francisco conference planning committee is seeking to feature select quotes/phrases on conference signage. Please help us make this a community centric event! https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/T6P5C8H May 02 16:00:03 We will likely be closing this survey in a couple of days May 02 16:00:04 Ah yeah! i was going to dent that and forgot - thanks! :) May 02 16:00:19 np ;) May 02 16:00:20 MarcA-N, is the list of available submissions to be available? May 02 16:00:45 lcuk: sessions submissions? May 02 16:00:58 no, submissions to your survey May 02 16:01:03 FYI—probably a prize of some sort for chosen quotes. May 02 16:01:31 to know all the things people entered for their superhero! May 02 16:01:49 lcuk: ahhh, well that would be cool May 02 16:01:55 Super-MeeGo-Man! ;) May 02 16:01:58 that is why I asked. May 02 16:02:10 I'll pass the idea around May 02 16:02:22 right now we only have 3 completed tho May 02 16:02:26 so it would be a short list! May 02 16:02:34 * lcuk wonders who the other 2 people were May 02 16:02:38 hah May 02 16:03:27 MarcA-N, the requirement to fill in all details and not have a post anonymously tickbox might be what prevents some May 02 16:10:25 * lcuk wishes he had a better memory May 02 16:11:41 lcuk: that would have made you sad and negative May 02 16:11:53 lcuk: like me. so be careful what you wish for. May 02 16:12:10 not at all RST38h May 02 16:12:23 I see everything I have done when I flick through the graffiti wall May 02 16:13:01 it is the need to rely on tech to give me a memory I am upset about May 02 16:13:20 "meego -- all our licenses are long-form" May 02 16:14:01 * lcuk is pleased that tech exists to help though :) May 02 16:14:12 npm, do they have a birth video too? May 02 16:14:30 yes. and a linus papal blessing May 02 16:14:50 heh May 02 16:16:29 * npm wonders what RMS thinks (i've been his chauffeur :-) ) May 02 16:18:29 so is http://download.meego.com/snapshots/1.2.80.0.20110502.81/ considered "release candidate" or what's the current status May 02 16:18:36 what is a long form? May 02 16:19:52 i was alluding to all the birther stupidity May 02 16:20:14 "we have the birth certificate" May 02 16:20:31 ah that shit May 02 16:21:34 Heh, according to facebook, San Franicisco is one of the top 100 wonders of the world May 02 16:21:47 It's actually above the Grand Canyon .. May 02 16:22:08 the grand canyon doesn't have a pride parade :-) May 02 16:22:14 Heh May 02 16:22:34 Admittedly a big crack in the earths surface doesn't shout "gay" :) May 02 16:23:01 gay or no, SF is still one of a very few cities in the US that are liveable May 02 16:23:17 Yeah, I've been hearing nothing but good things about the place tbh May 02 16:23:26 tolerable yes, liveable is debatable May 02 16:23:35 (former sf resident for over a decade) May 02 16:23:36 while grand canyon isn't really liveable :) May 02 16:23:43 Heh May 02 16:23:44 npm: Baltimore is tolerable. Would you live there though? May 02 16:23:52 john waters did :-) May 02 16:24:06 (same sentence can be constructed ofpretty much any bigUS city) May 02 16:25:09 san francisco is tolerable if you don't have a car :-) May 02 16:25:25 it is a driving nightmare May 02 16:25:42 npm: Timonium,MD is not Baltimore BTW (just checked the Wiki on Waters) May 02 16:25:52 for us europeans we know about driving nightmares in big cities ;-) May 02 16:26:13 npm: had no problems driving there, although parking appears to be nonexistant May 02 16:26:21 yes, i've driven in london once... never again May 02 16:26:23 in Niagara we can produce traffic jams with 3 cars May 02 16:26:46 drivers are very polite and have no idea who as right-of-way May 02 16:27:11 * zehjotkah is back May 02 16:27:24 npm: The worst part was the constant expectation of that freaking tram coming out of nowhere from behind the hill summit =) May 02 16:28:13 btw, if you come to the meego conf, don't rent a car unless you have lots of $$$ for parking May 02 16:28:35 RST38h: i'm talking about the parking ... yeah, if you just need to drive through then fine... May 02 16:29:52 npm: I do not even have lots of $$$ for the airplane ticket :) May 02 16:32:20 lbt: ping May 02 16:32:23 SF is not a fun city to drive in. May 02 16:32:31 DawnFoster: pong May 02 16:32:45 lbt: did you know that meego-it has over 200 subscribers May 02 16:33:06 thanks - no I didn't May 02 16:33:27 lbt: we need to stop using production lists for testing May 02 16:33:38 GAN: The only "fun" US city to drive in I have seen is Anchorage May 02 16:33:41 we thought it was our team list May 02 16:33:41 we can set up a test list for you guys to use May 02 16:33:55 (judging by the chat last week) May 02 16:33:58 lbt: since all of the mailing lists are public, anyone can join then :) May 02 16:34:01 GAN: And only when the locals are riding their Subarus to work, as opposed to their Winnebagos May 02 16:35:18 RST38h, depends on what your minimum population density requirement is for "city" May 02 16:35:59 Well, ok, it has to have a semblance of the downtown, I guess May 02 16:36:24 Or at least the Main Street! (usually congested) May 02 16:37:09 DawnFoster: http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/irc/data/irssistats.apr2011.html May 02 16:37:58 Stskeeps: thanks! May 02 16:38:29 mmm May 02 16:38:34 excellent, this graph shows i'm less active in evenings May 02 16:38:46 i can prove statistically i have some degree of life/rest now ;) May 02 16:39:20 * lbt gets up late May 02 16:40:02 and has no life ... but still manages to Tango almost every day :D May 02 16:40:27 lbt speaks a lot of monologues May 02 16:40:28 hehe May 02 16:40:31 OMG, I am much higher than expected there =( May 02 16:40:34 phaeron: shut it ! May 02 16:40:39 ROFL May 02 16:41:13 note that Stskeeps is keeping the #meego-arm one very quiet May 02 16:42:39 I'M NOT YELLING!!! REALLY! I'M NOT! May 02 16:43:06 btw, where's timeless been lately? May 02 16:43:37 going to interviews? :) May 02 16:43:46 :-) May 02 16:57:03 Wow, I'm second .. May 02 16:57:15 And in this channel too :/ May 02 16:57:38 I'm first in the all-important time slot when everyone is asleep May 02 16:58:58 Heh, my nick is the 16th most used May 02 16:59:10 I'm almost aas popular as Stskeeps :P May 02 17:01:05 and with your happiness and sadness, looks like you're bipolar May 02 17:53:39 systemd will hit Trunk today May 02 17:54:20 auke: cool May 02 17:55:20 auke: replacing fastinit and changing package groups? May 02 17:56:35 auke: already? May 02 17:56:45 branch for 1.2 happened May 02 17:56:51 oooh May 02 17:56:52 so Trunk is open for 1.3+ May 02 17:57:02 Stskeeps: fastinit is obsolete, yes May 02 17:57:12 we don't need any package groups, it should be transparent May 02 17:57:25 as a matter of fact, if you have a `trunk` box, it should upgrade May 02 17:57:34 but - not safe! - beware :) May 02 17:57:49 a reinstall will be most likely needed. May 02 17:58:41 don't hold me responsible for making your box not boot May 02 17:58:47 you can file bugs anyway :) May 02 17:58:52 auke: ok, will report on how badly n900 breaks ;) May 02 17:59:01 any docs/guidelines on wiki? May 02 17:59:11 Stskeeps: I'd be very interested to know how ARM does with systemd, yes May 02 17:59:23 probably fine May 02 17:59:26 systemd's docs are really good May 02 17:59:40 and, our implementation will have a ton of examples on how to implement it in packaging May 02 17:59:47 just wait for the 25+ packages to merge May 02 18:00:31 we can write a meego-systemd wiki on this later, when we have all the quirks worked out May 02 18:00:52 :nod: May 02 18:02:58 Stskeeps: we have a few things to sort out May 02 18:03:17 for instance, a lot of packages were not using chkconfig/sbin/service correctly May 02 18:04:44 yeah, we have some black sheep in n900 too May 02 18:05:58 if there is any problems that are arm related and unsure where to send, assign to me and i'll pass along May 02 18:07:53 systemd looks quite cool .. May 02 18:13:55 lots of potential May 02 18:17:26 I wonder if ubuntu will decide to use it. May 02 18:27:14 alterego, systemd _is_ cool May 02 18:27:33 I know that for a fact because F15 uses systemd May 02 18:28:08 it reduces bootup time amazingly :) May 02 18:29:48 boot time will be largely unaffected May 02 18:30:08 I'm actually seeing no improvement - and trust me I've optimized it May 02 18:30:17 that's weird. May 02 18:30:25 Stskeeps: the problem will be all the n900 daemons - I've avoided working on those May 02 18:30:38 Venemo: it's not weird - meego startup is highly tuned. May 02 18:30:57 until we can use systemd for user sessions, there won't be a gain May 02 18:31:07 auke, so you're saying that MeeGo's startup is already that optimized May 02 18:31:15 yes, it is May 02 18:31:28 well then, you have my congratulations for that :) May 02 18:31:45 what we're getting out of systemd is not a time gain, the gain is on a whole different surface May 02 18:31:50 we'll get scalability May 02 18:31:56 mhm May 02 18:31:59 and we lose a lot of hardcoded startup code May 02 18:32:05 that sounds good May 02 18:32:18 imagine that: code can do just as good as weeks of tweaking :) May 02 18:32:32 i.e. scalability May 02 18:32:48 yes, it's a big bonus. May 02 18:32:55 we do win a lot on shutdown time :) May 02 18:34:31 hehe May 02 18:36:40 shutdown time with systemd on F15 is about 8 minutes, because it hangs trying to shut donw mysqld May 02 18:37:21 berndhs, either report the bug or head on to #fedora-qa and tell them May 02 18:37:38 lol May 02 18:37:44 its reported, reportedly fixed in next version May 02 18:37:46 well we don't run mysqld in meego :) May 02 18:38:02 Fortunately, we won't have to focus on making all that hardcoding work in all of our various environments and instead focus resources on other issues. :-) May 02 18:38:10 I should have got Jaffa to include qml dialer in MWKN May 02 18:38:18 Please, please don't run mysqld in MeeGo. May 02 18:40:41 ware1: shush May 02 18:40:54 I'll do what I want! May 02 18:41:12 I'm sure there'll be guys who will run mysql on MeeGo, because they can. May 02 18:43:07 it makes sense for people who run apache May 02 18:43:22 apache isn't an issue May 02 18:43:33 there are already a lot of apps out there that need "some form of db" May 02 18:43:39 or lighttpd May 02 18:44:07 Or rails May 02 18:44:11 Sure, but not by default in a MeeGo.com image. I have no issue with others who want to install it from other places. I just don't want to be responsible for the security of it in MeeGo. May 02 18:44:53 "some form of db" should be available May 02 18:44:54 auke: i noticed systemd etc in the updates and noticed that pattern 'meego-core-base' has upstart-sysvinit and systemd-sysvinit May 02 18:45:08 is this what will cause breakage if i update? May 02 18:45:41 doubt it May 02 18:45:47 (i pointed 'oss' at http://download.meego.com/snapshots/1.2.80.0.20110502.81/repos/oss/ia32/packages ) May 02 18:45:52 but, those should probably go away May 02 18:46:32 you say " but - not safe! - beware :)" May 02 18:46:53 so i upgraded and it still works, so i was wondeing what i did right :-) May 02 18:47:21 I didn't put systemd in trunk yet May 02 18:48:52 ah, thus my confusion... given my special setup :-) it attempted to install systemd-10-2.fc14.1 May 02 18:49:10 and that's when i realized the patterns for zypper haven't caught up to the repos May 02 18:49:37 because otherwise my repo priorities and marking which arch they come from should have caught that May 02 18:50:29 one other discrepancy... pattern 'meego-netbook' says package 'acpid' is to be installed but it wasn't May 02 18:50:43 so i installed it and it still works. is it needed on the atom netbook? May 02 18:51:27 acpid is required for most of ia32 May 02 18:51:36 you should have it May 02 18:51:47 it's been running without it since forever :-) May 02 18:52:00 please don't install fedora rpms, especially for stuff like systemd? May 02 18:52:10 just installed it for first time today (been on 1.2 since february May 02 18:52:11 unless you like to reinstall every week :P May 02 18:52:27 i do not install fedora rpm's for systemmd May 02 18:52:48 it's just that the meego patterns haven't caught up to the repos, apparently May 02 18:53:16 so it was falling through to my backstop, which is fedora -- but i don't let it install stuff like that May 02 18:53:28 auke: yeah, that is our work anyway May 02 18:53:41 the groups are not that important - they break regularlyt and that should not be an issue May 02 18:54:03 on the other hand, if it weren't for fedora, i'd be dead in the water right now, but i fixed it: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16879 May 02 18:54:06 Bug 16879 maj, High, ---, peter.j.zhu, NEW, hunspell dumps core with default english dictionary, and is installed with no default dictionary May 02 18:54:10 otoh, feel free to open bugzilla's on each group that no longer works May 02 18:54:50 auke: i was just looking at groups/patterns today to sanity check my system against latest updates May 02 18:54:59 since i'm basically doing a "rolling 1.2 update" on here May 02 18:55:06 I did that a while back but QA does not test the comps/groups/patterns regularly May 02 18:58:04 i'm a little surprised 1.2 is being released w/ connman 0.69 tho --- it doesn't work at all May 02 18:58:49 i'm running connman-0.73.38.gc14f115-1.1.i586 or i'd be dead in the water w/ 1.2 as well May 02 18:59:26 It's not worked at all for me ever :P May 02 18:59:30 (from http://download.meego.com/live/devel:/connectivity:/latest/Trunk ) May 02 19:00:43 alterego: don't you think you should jump up and down about it a little then, 1.2 is going to get released, with a little problem... it won't connect to networks May 02 19:01:31 at least with this 0.73 version, i know what fields i have to retype in the connection box in order to get it working (it loses the netmask each boot/suspend) May 02 19:02:26 I have been, "" I can't connect to adhoc wifi, I can't connect to adhoc wifi, I can't connect to adhoc wifi") :P May 02 19:02:42 i've been "i can't connect to static ip" ... May 02 19:03:14 Seems like the problem is also N900 wifi driver at the moment :) May 02 19:04:14 I think trunk will go to 0.73/74 soon May 02 19:04:16 i was talking about the netbook ux, but i've also had plenty of wireless probs w/ the n900 May 02 19:04:30 but isn't "trunk" 1.3 now? May 02 19:04:57 or is "trunk" still on the 1.2 release train May 02 19:04:58 Yeah, I thought the big switch happened at the weekend. May 02 19:05:17 or will certain 1.3 trunk get patched over to 1.2? May 02 19:05:17 hey, the new onscreen keyboard for meego May 02 19:05:30 does it register itself with /dev/input? May 02 19:07:05 gandhijee: uses qt/xinput2 prolly May 02 19:07:19 ok, thanks May 02 19:08:04 trunk is 1.3 now May 02 19:08:19 1.2 branch lives on entirely on it's own May 02 19:10:19 speaking of the on-screen keyboard... a can't get it to disappear with a down-swipe any more. How do you get it to go away? May 02 19:10:30 auke: one of the reasons for looking into my rolling update was to solve the reason why i turned off corewatcher -- core dumps every few minutes from /usr/libexec/meego-panel-status May 02 19:10:34 (without pressing [Enter], that is) May 02 19:20:02 lbt: I subscribed back then for a good reason. I wanted to stay up to date about infrastructure, because that's what would happen on such a mailing list, wouldn't it? :) May 02 19:20:36 *g* May 02 19:21:22 and seems it has worked out just fine :) May 02 19:43:22 DawnFoster, have you filled in MarcA-N's poll yet? May 02 19:43:39 lcuk: I haven't May 02 19:44:03 poll? May 02 19:44:11 lcuk: as part of the conference planning team, I already get lots of input into what we put on the signs :) May 02 19:44:29 i just voted here down the street :) May 02 19:44:34 DawnFoster, would you be likely to put a wonderwoman/batgirl heroine type superhero in it? May 02 19:44:41 sofar: The MeeGo San Francisco conference planning committee is seeking to feature select quotes/phrases on conference signage. Please help us make this a community centric event! https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/T6P5C8H May 02 19:44:47 DawnFoster, for fun of course May 02 19:45:05 DawnFoster: lorem ipsum gets my vote :D May 02 19:45:20 sofar, don't vote here, submit it! May 02 19:45:24 lcuk: I think we should have a werewolf girl superhero :) May 02 19:46:15 DawnFoster, hah yeah May 02 19:46:59 DawnFoster: surely someone asked already. Has a T-Shirt design been selected? May 02 19:47:11 hi anidel \o May 02 19:47:20 anidel: it has - brian should be announcing the winner today May 02 19:47:23 hi lcuk , popping in every now and then :) May 02 19:47:30 DawnFoster: cool, thanks! May 02 19:47:36 just take a plain one and design it on the plane May 02 19:47:43 :D May 02 19:49:31 wait... the TTL on my DNS expired... sofar is auke, right? :-p May 02 19:49:38 DawnFoster, are you near enough to the conf to drive to it, or are you flying in like many others? May 02 19:50:07 flying - it's a 2 hour flight - more than a day to drive May 02 19:50:14 <- auke, affirmative May 02 19:50:44 :-) May 02 19:50:56 lcuk: Portland - SFO are not that close May 02 19:51:06 DawnFoster, but when we have IVI running smoothly it will be a nicer day roadtrip May 02 19:51:09 but Portland is, to me, much nicer May 02 19:51:15 it would be a 10-12 hour drive with no stops :) May 02 19:51:19 lcuk's US geography fail. May 02 19:51:24 lcuk: i'll be driving, if you're interested :) May 02 19:51:27 GAN900: ha :) May 02 19:51:40 GAN900: epic fail :) May 02 19:51:41 GAN900, it was a question May 02 19:51:50 anidel, highest density of advanced degrees in the country. Take that how you will. ;) May 02 19:51:50 conversation :P May 02 19:52:11 * lcuk thinks if you google every single answer life is dull. May 02 19:52:16 GAN900: SFO ? who cares :) I like food and Portland food culture is awesome May 02 19:52:23 though some are worth googling :) May 02 19:52:48 yeah, portland has amazing food May 02 19:53:19 lcuk: look up answers in http://www.urbandictionary.com/ then :-) May 02 19:53:22 trying to remember were we ate...can't :( short memory May 02 19:53:53 anidel, Portland. May 02 19:54:06 npm, the general point applies, and urbandictionary has some extremely strange things, drinking games involving random clicks are always fun May 02 19:54:09 and I don't generally consider that an agreeable thing. :P May 02 19:54:16 GAN900: ah really? didn't know that May 02 19:54:23 * alterego wonders if elop drugged the board members when persuading them an MS deal would be a good thing :) May 02 19:54:39 anidel, it's why a place like Powell's can exist there. May 02 19:54:53 It's also why it's full of insufferable collectivists. May 02 19:54:53 3 major phone OS' all as flawed as each other May 02 19:55:02 GAN900: :) May 02 19:55:04 meego May 02 19:55:22 hola ni meegos May 02 19:55:39 GAN900: been there for two days only. But wouldn't mind relocating at all. Closer to Seattle as well and liked Oregon and Washington nature quite a bit May 02 19:58:40 does anyone know any good movies? May 02 19:58:56 What kind of movie? May 02 19:59:15 "Bienvenue chez les Ch'tis" May 02 19:59:21 it's a very cool movie May 02 20:00:22 it's French, but quite funny and relaxing May 02 20:00:33 yeah May 02 20:00:40 especially for someone who has lived in that region :-) May 02 20:00:50 * thiago_home lived 2 years in Lille and could understand Ch'ti May 02 20:00:55 you did? is it that cold and people weird? :) May 02 20:01:01 anidel, the only french movies I have been able to sit through (in language) were the taxi series May 02 20:01:08 oh, yeah, and you never see the sun :-) May 02 20:01:18 lcuk, you're missing out there are lots of good ones May 02 20:01:25 * lcuk nods May 02 20:01:27 le dîner des cons is great May 02 20:01:29 thiago_home: eheh May 02 20:01:35 that's one of my favourites :-) May 02 20:01:51 lcuk: there's the english version as well... May 02 20:01:53 I also recommend "la tour montparnasse infernale" May 02 20:02:08 thiago, seriously? May 02 20:02:16 yeah May 02 20:02:35 also "Lisbon Story", lcuk May 02 20:02:48 I misread the title May 02 20:03:48 thiago_home, tracy prefers Die Hard May 02 20:04:40 this is french comedy, nothing like amélie poulain... May 02 20:05:43 try asterix & obelix mission cleopatra, that's really good french comedy May 02 20:05:52 Did anybody put up a flights page for the conference yet? May 02 20:05:59 GAN900: yes May 02 20:06:01 arfoll, :D great idea May 02 20:06:12 I watched a few random ones of those a while ago May 02 20:06:49 Don't know where it is though :) May 02 20:06:55 * thiago_home got his flight confirmation today May 02 20:06:56 lcuk, i don't mean the cartoons, theres a film. in fact there are 3 films but only the mission cleoaptra one is good May 02 20:07:08 GAN900, a flight page would be good May 02 20:07:09 arfoll, yeah I know May 02 20:07:24 alterego, useless. . . . May 02 20:07:25 GAN900: I think it was Jaffa that started the flights page. May 02 20:07:52 btw, "bi-annual" means every two years, doesn't it? May 02 20:08:24 * GAN900 downloads Ubuntu at 60KB/sec for his new x220 May 02 20:08:53 I'm holding off installing latest Ubuntu until I finish my current contract May 02 20:08:55 thiago_home: yes May 02 20:09:15 bi-annual means every 2 years or 2 times a year, both May 02 20:09:37 true May 02 20:09:38 GAN900: I'm intersted in hearing how that runs, that laptop is on my short list May 02 20:09:44 we should change the wiki to say "twice-yearly" May 02 20:10:04 jedix, trackpad still isn't as good as Apple's are. . . . May 02 20:10:06 GAN900: ack I wanted to get the X220 myself...opted for a camera instead :P how is it May 02 20:10:27 berndhs, pretty it means twice a year. May 02 20:10:35 You might be looking for semi-annual. May 02 20:10:39 GAN900: can you disable it all together? May 02 20:12:06 better to use a non-ambiguous term May 02 20:12:39 * arfoll_ thinks maybe like ubuntu releases would be best May 02 20:14:40 six monthical May 02 20:17:49 cononical based update period...hehe May 02 20:18:05 "semiannual" is not ambigous and means twice a year or every 6 months May 02 20:18:39 * jedix would prefer the ID release schedule of `when it's done` May 02 20:18:53 hard to sell to management though May 02 20:20:08 jedix: :-) May 02 20:24:50 berndhs, in my English it's pretty non-ambiguous. :P May 02 20:25:21 yeah but thats just you :) May 02 20:25:27 semi-annual is better May 02 20:26:11 semi-annual just sounds like it might happen once a year :P May 02 20:29:14 how about "every now and then" May 02 20:30:58 semi-annual is every two years. :P May 02 20:31:31 "sometimes" May 02 20:31:43 "when we feel like it" May 02 20:33:33 "when we release a new version" May 02 20:42:18 "every first of a month when it falls on a friday and the month number modulo 5 is zero" May 02 20:43:09 may and november May 02 20:44:27 * thiago_home likes the bugs that trigger on daylight saving changes May 02 20:45:21 thiago_home, they occur on qt too? May 02 20:45:34 I thought QDate was strong? May 02 20:45:34 yeah May 02 20:45:38 QDate is good May 02 20:45:43 thats an idea, have the conference on the time change weekend, so people get more confused May 02 20:45:56 but this specific bug happens if the datetime tests happen during the change May 02 20:46:09 QDateTime internally stores the fact that you're before or after the changeover May 02 20:46:20 but if you take the hour out and reset, it will be wrong May 02 20:46:43 e.g.: QDateTime dt = QDateTime::currentDateTime; QDatateTime dt2(dt.date(), dt.time()); May 02 20:46:46 is dt == dt2? May 02 20:47:24 one would expect so May 02 20:47:28 it's true except for 60 minutes once a year May 02 20:47:46 are you sure it is only 60 minutes May 02 20:47:58 my calendar had an awesome bug where I missed a day earlier this year May 02 20:48:03 http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/04/09/perfect-timing/ May 02 20:48:08 but thankfully, I get two back later on :() May 02 20:48:10 :) May 02 20:48:20 normally one would expect dt2 >= dt May 02 20:48:44 berndhs: why? it's the same date and time May 02 20:49:34 ah wait I misread it, was thinking about QDateTime dt (QDateTime::currentDateTime().date()...) May 02 20:55:04 MeeGo on Fedora? May 02 20:55:12 Why not Debian on Fedora?? May 02 20:55:31 * gabrbedd just saw meego-community@ May 02 20:57:36 * thiago_home prefers Solaris on AIX May 02 20:58:25 Cray Linux on openwrt ? May 02 21:06:13 gabrbedd: people think meego = netbook ux.. May 02 21:21:05 Stskeeps: yeah, that's the other part.... :-) Probably a carry-over from something that made sense in the Moblin days. May 02 21:21:24 gabrbedd: it was also the whole debacle of smeegol May 02 21:21:24 :P May 02 21:25:37 Stskeeps: Yep. MeeGo bears some blame for the confusion, though, because the MTF had "MeeGo" in the name. Live an learn. :-) May 02 21:26:02 gabrbedd: i have a bug open related to that :P May 02 21:27:28 Stskeeps: do you expect an MTF in 1.3? May 02 21:27:54 given what arjan said on meego-dev today, I doubt it May 02 21:27:58 (may it rest in pieces) May 02 21:28:12 What a waste of development time. May 02 21:29:11 http://greenprinter.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/office-space.jpg comes to mind May 02 21:29:30 * w00t_ tries to not say "I told you so" and fails May 02 21:29:32 alterego: bug 11105 May 02 21:29:34 err May 02 21:29:35 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11105 nor, Undecided, ---, ibrahim, ASSI, Lack of separate trademark policy regarding project generated (MeeGo ) software May 02 21:29:37 gabrbedd: May 02 21:29:43 :) May 02 21:29:57 [23:26] given what arjan said on meego-dev today, I doubt it -> link please? May 02 21:30:23 * Stskeeps still hopes we'll be able to throw out x dependancy too May 02 21:30:35 Stskeeps: +1 May 02 21:30:39 Venemo: moment May 02 21:30:54 I watched that film only a week ago :) May 02 21:30:57 http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2011-May/482893.html May 02 21:31:20 hm May 02 21:31:27 I thought all of the Handset UX is based on MTF May 02 21:31:36 probably most of that getting ditched May 02 21:31:37 eg. meegotouch-home and stuff May 02 21:31:42 hm May 02 21:31:42 and replaced with the phablet ux May 02 21:31:50 Venemo: the road ahead is http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-ux May 02 21:31:56 They already have replacements in the tablet ux May 02 21:32:00 Which I think is his point May 02 21:32:04 heh May 02 21:32:14 so the entire handset ux was a waste of developer hours? May 02 21:32:14 i thought MTF was announced as deprecated a year ago May 02 21:32:33 berndhs: yes, except some people kept on develop using it May 02 21:32:38 Venemo: pretty much, though it is the basis of Harmatten May 02 21:32:56 Venemo: yeah, that was part of the problem. MTF was both a system and a user framework, and not a part of MeeGo Core. May 02 21:33:06 alterego, hahah, Harmattan sucks already. May 02 21:33:18 I think Harmatten will be great May 02 21:33:23 But very short lived :) May 02 21:33:25 Harmattan has mature components, which is good May 02 21:33:32 And hopefully replacably completely my MeeGo :) May 02 21:33:34 (by user framework, I mean user-application framework) May 02 21:33:45 heheh May 02 21:35:27 screw harmattan, meego's where the fun is at May 02 21:35:29 :P May 02 21:35:59 The MTF also gave outsiders the impression that /this/ was the mechanism to have multi-touch in MeeGo -- thus the interest since XInput 2 was far from being added to X11. May 02 21:37:06 So some were surprised to find that you simply use Qt to get your multi-touch events, and that you didn't really need the MTF to do multi-touch on MeeGo. May 02 21:37:59 (This should probably go on a FAQ somewhere...) May 02 21:39:56 or just take a deep breath, be happy 1.2 is soon out and get to make 1.3 even better May 02 21:40:18 * Stskeeps is proud to have a ARM release coming with zero fails-to-build-from-source packages. May 02 21:40:51 w00t_ ++ May 02 21:40:52 if people havent noticed the deprecatedness over the last year, they wont find it in the FAQ May 02 21:41:24 Stskeeps, congrats :) May 02 21:41:30 Stskeeps: i really think we need to think what we can do to fix quality for 1.3 though May 02 21:41:50 w00t_: i personally think the large amount of qa people hired from nokia to intel should help matters :P May 02 21:42:06 Stskeeps, intel hired people from Nokia? May 02 21:42:14 Venemo: yes :) May 02 21:42:21 how very nice of them May 02 21:42:26 berndhs: Yeah, but it's faster to type the URL for a FAQ. :-) May 02 21:42:33 perhaps also the newly joined vendors will help May 02 21:42:57 I still don't 100% get what Intel gains from all of this. May 02 21:43:03 Stskeeps: Yeah, I'll probably be focused on 1.2 for a while longer. That's a make-or-break release for us. May 02 21:43:25 gabrbedd: :nod: i think 1.2 has many good things May 02 21:43:28 Intel gains market share in little bitty mobile devices May 02 21:43:31 while we go on and break 1.3 May 02 21:44:21 Venemo: check my talk/video on http://summit.meegonetwork.fi/speaker/carsten-munk and that pretty much illustrates why it makes sense to hang around meego :P May 02 21:44:50 Stskeeps: agreed. :-) Hopefully I get to fix mine after you break everything I've done. :-p May 02 21:45:10 (meaning success!!) May 02 21:45:31 Stskeeps, I'm not saying it doesn't make sense. just sayin' that Intel could have followed a different course of action. May 02 21:45:41 Stskeeps, but of course I'm glad they did what they did :) May 02 21:46:39 * Stskeeps looks forward to triple-arch meego (x86, arm, mips) May 02 21:47:03 how 'bout x86_64? May 02 21:48:22 btw Stskeeps, you have an outdated version of OOo May 02 21:48:29 Venemo: wasn't my pc May 02 21:48:37 ok :P May 02 21:49:55 Stskeeps, you have a very good pronounciation in English, but the audio quality of the video could be better. May 02 21:50:16 Venemo: Yeah, I've been wanting to play with Atom x86_64 for a while... just hasn't been important enough. It only benefits in a few situations. May 02 21:50:16 i thought audio was fairly good, there were worse videos ;) May 02 21:50:48 gabrbedd, most new netbooks come with x86_64 May 02 21:51:28 It only really has benifits when playing with large numbers and handling large disks May 02 21:51:42 alterego, and handling 4GB RAM May 02 21:51:51 Yes May 02 21:52:09 Not sure we're at a stage were netbooks require 4G May 02 21:52:14 Probably very close though May 02 21:52:30 depends on the usecase of the user. May 02 21:52:31 4G RAM will be great for anti-aliasing fonts May 02 21:52:41 Venemo: I know... ever since pinetrail... but it only helps iin large memory (not typ. in mobile), compiling code (not typ. in mobile), and encoding/decoding audio (typ. in mobile -- but not a compelling reason to go 64-bit) May 02 21:52:52 berndhs: antialiasing everything :P May 02 21:53:41 I agree with alterego that mobile devices will want >4G in the near future. May 02 21:54:43 * Stskeeps is more into 'living off the land' type of mobile devices May 02 21:54:58 Stskeeps, "living off the land"? May 02 21:55:13 Stskeeps, aaah, I knew you wouldn't leave out the Corning video :P May 02 21:55:16 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyber_foraging May 02 21:55:47 aah May 02 21:56:04 Stskeeps, this is something similar to "cloud computing", isn't it? May 02 21:56:15 cloud computing is such a bullshit term :) May 02 21:56:34 but now i'm off to sleep May 02 21:56:43 okay, sleep well May 02 21:57:12 Stskeeps, you'll have my opinion about your talk tomorrow then :P May 02 21:57:32 good night, Mr. Keeps! May 02 21:57:41 Heh May 02 22:04:37 Stskeeps, you use the word 'whatever' way too many times :P May 02 22:05:48 whatever May 02 22:05:53 berndhs, alterego how will more memory allow AA everywhere May 02 22:06:23 lcuk2, because then the computer will be able to remember the AA for everything May 02 22:06:39 Venemo, :) May 02 22:06:51 Yeah, we could do frame caching May 02 22:06:54 * alterego chuckles May 02 22:06:55 AA is by definition merge with background May 02 22:07:04 if you can afford to waste memory, you can do a lot with table lookup instead of computation# May 02 22:07:05 (poor attempt on my part to replicate lcuk2's sense of humor) May 02 22:07:06 AA is usually subsampling May 02 22:07:12 Which requires a bit more memory :P May 02 22:07:19 alterego, and blending to the area May 02 22:07:55 you subsample and take weights of surrounding source and destination pixels into account May 02 22:07:59 Well, it blends through subsampling May 02 22:08:21 I've seen pretty good results from just subsampling May 02 22:08:38 I was under the impression that is how AA worked for QML May 02 22:08:45 it also means that a clear well defined line on a high dpi device is actually fat May 02 22:08:49 oh, people will find something to do with more memory that looks useful May 02 22:09:04 Virtualisation, May 02 22:09:07 On a mobile May 02 22:09:14 maps May 02 22:09:17 Work VM and Personal VM :) May 02 22:09:23 how about actually using most of it for user data :) May 02 22:09:27 maps data are big May 02 22:10:03 the biggest items are the object trees May 02 22:10:30 lcuk2, what kind of object trees? May 02 22:10:30 * lcuk2 would prefer faster memory access than more memory May 02 22:10:46 Venemo, qt apps are one big object tree aren't they? May 02 22:10:55 lcuk2: Yes, I think 64-bit would benefit AA (if I understand you correctly) -- whether you're being a memory hog or not. May 02 22:10:58 qml trees May 02 22:11:12 lcuk2, ah, you mean qml. sure. May 02 22:11:32 lcuk2: There's probably other reasons why... but one of them being that fetch-add-and-store is a single instruction in 64-bit. May 02 22:11:42 gabrbedd, 64bit mem access and registers would be nice in AA use because you can get more registers filled and data infront of the chip than normal May 02 22:11:43 ;) May 02 22:11:56 its like the other SIMD style instructions :P May 02 22:12:30 Apparently my dialer is causing a kernel panick on iCDK :) May 02 22:12:33 but anyway, tis late \o gnite chaps May 02 22:12:41 oops al May 02 22:12:43 t May 02 22:12:43 g'night lcuk2 May 02 22:12:43 good night lcuk2, sleep well :) May 02 22:12:43 lcuk2: Right, but when doing SIMD... fetch/add/store is still broken up a tad. May 02 22:12:50 ...in 32-bit. May 02 22:12:50 night May 02 22:13:05 g'night, lcuk2 \o. May 02 22:15:55 MohammadAG, ping May 02 23:28:42 meego != netbook ux??! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r5OOf3Kvls http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fDGUKtoPUI :> May 02 23:31:28 smoku, :D May 02 23:32:23 smoku, I now understand the strictness of the MeeGo branding May 02 23:33:40 anyway, I'm now going to sleep May 02 23:33:47 have a good night guys :) May 03 01:28:12 it's quiet at night May 03 01:28:30 * w00t_ drops a pin May 03 01:29:00 * lbt picks it up and hands it back May 03 01:29:33 and all that day you'll have good luck, so i hear May 03 01:30:04 I need it May 03 01:32:43 * gabrbedd considers dropping something May 03 01:33:21 w00t_: lbt: You guys over here or something? Go to bed! :-p May 03 01:33:37 soon May 03 01:33:55 phaeron is making me work May 03 01:34:08 bad, phaeron! May 03 01:35:46 ericlr: can't you sleep man? May 03 01:38:20 sleep-ircing May 03 01:38:26 lol May 03 01:40:18 Heelo guys, take a look here https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=613411 May 03 01:40:27 Fedora will remove meego from the official repos May 03 01:40:47 I've sent a message about it to our meego-community mail list May 03 01:40:55 RodrigoPadula: I figured someone would have replied to your message by now. May 03 01:41:17 RodrigoPadula: What you're saying is a lot like saying "Fedora will remove Debian from the official repos" May 03 01:41:36 *nod* May 03 01:41:56 I'm guessing that this started off as a Moblin/Mutter thing... and you guys tried to track it through MeeGo. May 03 01:42:04 gabrbedd: but otoh ... MeeGo doesn't have a rational name for the UX layer May 03 01:42:24 which is probably what's meant? May 03 01:42:56 * lbt -> bed May 03 01:42:58 o/ May 03 01:43:00 I think so, but I was waiting for him to respond before going there. :-) May 03 01:43:05 Good night, lbt! May 03 01:43:13 night lbt May 03 01:44:15 gabrbedd ??? May 03 01:44:34 fedora always had moblin into official repositories May 03 01:44:45 later, we packaged meego software May 03 01:45:38 Fedora project has created some fedora remix with the meego user interface + some packages May 03 01:46:14 now, based on problems with package conflicts they will remove it May 03 01:46:32 When MeeGo was created, Moblin was cast into the "Netbook UX" -- and I'm guess that this is what you packaged. May 03 01:46:39 they are not interested to fix it May 03 01:47:11 However, the other MeeGo UX's have nothing to do with gnome or Moblin or the Netbook UX. May 03 01:47:18 They have a totally different look and feel. May 03 01:47:44 Meanwhile, I've heard the decision-makers in MeeGo has saying that the Netbook UX has "no future." May 03 01:47:53 (And they've been acting that way for months) May 03 01:48:00 humm, now I got it May 03 01:48:36 Here are the complet list of Meego packages from Fedora 15 beta repositories May 03 01:48:38 banshee-meego.i686 : Meego Support for the Banshee Media Framework May 03 01:48:39 meego-cursor-theme.noarch : MeeGo X cursors theme May 03 01:48:39 meego-panel-applications.i686 : MeeGo Panel for launching Applications May 03 01:48:39 meego-panel-datetime.i686 : MeeGo date and time panel May 03 01:48:39 meego-panel-devices.i686 : Meego devices panel May 03 01:48:39 meego-panel-myzone.i686 : MeeGo Panel for display of current social information May 03 01:48:41 meego-panel-myzone-devel.i686 : Development package for meego-panel-myzone May 03 01:48:43 meego-panel-pasteboard.i686 : MeeGo Panel for Paste Board May 03 01:48:45 meego-panel-people.i686 : Meego Panel for People May 03 01:48:47 meego-panel-status.i686 : Meego Panel for Social Network Status May 03 01:48:51 meego-panel-status-devel.i686 : Development package for meego-panel-status May 03 01:48:53 meego-panel-zones.i686 : Meego zones panel May 03 01:48:55 meego-sound-theme.noarch : MeeGo sound theme May 03 01:48:57 mutter-meego.i686 : MeeGo Netbook UX plugin for Mutter May 03 01:48:59 mutter-meego-devel.i686 : Development package for mutter-meego May 03 01:49:04 I'm not in a Position of Authority... but I think the answer is: Thanks for the notice, but it's probably better that it dies. May 03 01:49:14 Yes, I know what the packages are :-) May 03 01:49:20 the conflicts are in the mutter-meego packages with GNOME3 mutter packages May 03 01:49:26 RodrigoPadula: please don't paste large amounts of text on IRC May 03 01:50:27 gabrbedd, humm thanks by the information May 03 01:51:12 personally, I think the gnome3 people have been "inspired" by the meego netbook UX, or they share a common ancestor May 03 01:51:13 I'm new in the Meego area so I dont know the main goals by now, mainly since Nokia decided to use Windows May 03 01:51:20 RodrigoPadula: No problem. Hope it helps! May 03 01:51:46 berndhs: hildon May 03 01:51:49 BTW, I was glad to hear that GNOME is switching to clutter/mutter... because I think it's really nice. May 03 01:52:17 berndhs, Meego, Unity and GNOME Shell shares some ideas/ usability issues May 03 01:52:45 yeah, I'll skip my ranting for today :) May 03 01:52:56 gabrbedd, Yes, the new window manager used is based on clutter May 03 01:54:01 the new GNOME interface, GNOME Shell is based on mutter/cluter + mozilla Js engine May 03 01:54:16 In MeeGo, /most/ of the UX's are using mcompositor for the WM. Netbook is using mutter (the moblin fork of clutter). And I think I heard that one of the UX's is using matchbox. May 03 01:54:50 MeeGo 1.3 remains to be seen as to what the dominant WM is. May 03 01:55:09 wayland :-P May 03 01:55:25 Isn't wayland a replacement for X11, though? It's not a WM. May 03 01:55:33 many projects are studing to move to wayland May 03 01:55:36 Ubuntu, Fedora May 03 01:55:37 And it won't be Prime Time in 1.3 May 03 01:55:39 correct, but it also replaces the WM May 03 01:56:30 my friend worked for Nokia, improving and migrating some X.org codes May 03 01:56:56 now he is working for Intel in the Wayland team May 03 01:57:12 the creator of Wayland is working for intel, I guess May 03 01:59:47 since Nokia did the agreement with Microsoft, Intel is hiring a lot of great engeeners from Nokia May 03 02:00:03 that's great for the meego project May 03 02:00:54 Yes, Intel has really stepped up to support MeeGo and retain those good devs. May 03 02:01:36 I'm starting to help the meego project here in Brasil May 03 02:01:55 I've started to coordinate the l10n team to pt_BR May 03 02:02:06 I will study a litle more to help with other issues May 03 02:02:19 Cool! :-) May 03 02:15:43 is there anyone who knows well about 'mcompositor'?? May 03 02:18:19 wassupnari: what kind of info are you looking for? May 03 02:25:10 gabrbedd : i just know that is some kind of window manager, and i'm looking for the relation with GL/EGL and how it composite application window. May 03 02:26:12 gabrbedd : now i'm looking mcompositor's source code, but it's quite huge. :) May 03 02:27:22 wassupnari: mcompositor is a window manager implemented in Qt. I don't know how much raw GL code it's using... May 03 02:27:49 wassupnari: because Qt's QPainter is able to abstract a lot of that without having to do raw GL. May 03 02:28:02 In MeeGo 1.1 Qt was build to use OpenGL. May 03 02:28:11 In 1.2 it uses OpenGL ESv2 May 03 02:28:49 I don't know the specifics of the compositing code... but I know that it's generally trying to run apps in full-screen mode so that they are /not/ compositing. May 03 02:29:02 (since you get better performance that way). May 03 02:32:43 gabrbedd : I use mcompositor with HW acceleration right now, but my screen crashes in some situation. Do you know why? May 03 02:33:41 wassupnari: Can you describe the situation? And what version of MeeGo you're using? May 03 02:34:15 Meego Tablet UX 1.1.99 with NVIDIA Tegra armv5tel May 03 02:35:07 And the situation? May 03 02:37:30 Currently, i'm testing virtual keyboard.. and if i run the mcompositor, then my UI screen crashes with white frame. May 03 02:38:04 wassupnari: does it happen immediately, or after you do something? May 03 02:39:04 gabrbedd : if i run the mcompositor then screen turned off and on again with crashed UI May 03 02:40:06 gabrbedd : and you know that there are two different view in Tablet UX, such as panel view and normal icon view. May 03 02:40:46 gabrbedd : and the screen crashed usually happened in icon view. May 03 02:44:32 wassupnari: what does that have to do with the virtual keyboard? Are you running it on top of the Tablet UX? May 03 02:46:02 gabrbedd : hm.. yes... i need to test wifi with fennec browser, so i need virtual keyboard to enter the web address.. May 03 02:46:37 gabrbedd : i just want to know where i could get some information or documentation about 'mcompositor'.. May 03 02:48:58 Rusty Lynch, Fathi Boudra, and Miroslav Safr are the most recent names in the changelog. May 03 02:49:20 the code is the only documentation I know of, since it's not really a user-space thing. May 03 02:50:16 wassupnari: You should file a bug on it (all 3 will tell you to do that before they help you) May 03 02:50:29 gabrbedd : yes, i think it's more close to server and X system i think... May 03 02:51:05 gabrbedd : okay, thank you :) May 03 02:51:57 wassupnari: good luck! :-) May 03 02:54:38 gabrbedd : thanks :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue May 03 02:59:58 2011