**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri May 06 02:59:58 2011 May 06 04:27:58 mood groaning May 06 04:40:22 dm8tbr: .o/ May 06 04:54:53 lo gabrbedd May 06 05:15:09 morning May 06 06:05:54 DOH!: "the decision has been made by PM that we can't upgrade to latest version and can only have 0.69.x release at 1.2" ( https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13780#c17 ) May 06 06:05:57 Bug 13780 nor, Medium, 1.1.90.4, martin.xu, ASSI, Wired connection stops working when transferring lots of data May 06 06:06:22 npm`: we're freezing the image on wednesday May 06 06:06:26 i don't really blame them May 06 06:08:15 it's a matter of more bugs there's update releases May 06 06:15:27 why release something w/ known coredumps tho? esp. when a more fixed connman is available here http://download.meego.com/live/devel:/connectivity:/latest/Trunk May 06 06:15:52 npm`: as they say, they can't reproduce it May 06 06:16:01 out of morbid curiousity, what processor are you rnning on? May 06 06:16:18 (also, last release they upgraded connman or ofono and hell broke loose, i think) May 06 06:16:25 atom n455, standard meego lenovo s10-3t May 06 06:16:46 but that one is fixed by new kernel actually May 06 06:17:32 Linux meegolem 2.6.38.2-8.6-adaptation-pinetrail #1 SMP PREEMPT Fri Apr 29 10:36:11 UTC 2011 May 06 06:18:32 well i saw reports here of people having connectivity problems w/ same versions on n900 as well May 06 06:19:17 and it hasn't been tested on all networks. for example, try it on a hotel network or a passworded cafe wifi May 06 06:20:10 and there's a whole series of bugs that got set as 1.2 blocker. related to connman that haven't been unblocked yet May 06 06:26:41 e.g., https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15552 May 06 06:26:44 Bug 15552 maj, High, ---, martin.xu, ASSI, [Upstream v-0.71 has fixed the issue]network fail to connect to internet with static IP for the seco May 06 06:28:47 https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13780 May 06 06:28:49 Bug 13780 nor, Medium, 1.1.90.4, martin.xu, ASSI, Wired connection stops working when transferring lots of data May 06 06:29:34 oops just went around in a circle on 13780 May 06 06:32:27 * npm` thanks prajwal.mohan for trying.... May 06 06:37:50 my custom meegolemized trunk meego 1.2 netbook is pretty awesome (just installed xournal from fedora and it works perfect w/ touchscreen).... im just not sure about the actual release working w/ connman 0.69 and the old .37 kernel May 06 07:10:56 Hi meego people. Could you please advise how to check which particular commit in gitorious project was intergrated in official meego release? May 06 07:11:32 Meegowned: usually you can tell by the tags in the gitorious project May 06 07:19:21 and sorry for newb question, release rpms with source code were generated from gitorious repos, right? May 06 07:19:46 they're generated from releases of those gitorious repos May 06 07:19:47 like 1.2 May 06 07:20:30 gitorious -> source release (tarball) -> rpm packages May 06 07:21:33 thank you May 06 08:43:03 hi All, is there any way we can link gitorious with OBS May 06 08:43:14 That is lets I want to add package in my Project in OBS.. can I point to a link in gitorious so that it will pick the package from there itself May 06 08:49:21 consider I want to take 'meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard' package from meego1.2 branch and add this package in my Home project May 06 08:49:51 http://meego.gitorious.org/meegotouch/meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard/commits/meego-1.2 is the link for the package. but i am not able to figure out how to do it May 06 08:50:03 anyone has any idea about it May 06 08:51:03 bkalinga, the inputmethods are already in obs May 06 08:51:19 how do i see that in OBS May 06 08:51:36 link please May 06 08:51:45 a moment May 06 08:53:53 http://wiki.meego.com/Maliit/Development#Meego_packaging indicates the maliit package statuses within obs May 06 08:56:27 is there any way people compile their git code on OBS? May 06 09:00:48 lcuk: thanks for pointing me ...i could see 'meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard' is part of 'MeeGo:1.2:oss' project May 06 09:01:08 now i want to take a copy of this package into my home Project May 06 09:01:22 how do i do it? May 06 09:01:56 bkalinga, I do not know, one of the other 455 people in the channel hopefully will May 06 09:02:22 sure.. May 06 09:05:45 osc copypac May 06 09:06:24 did I read correctly there is no new images today? May 06 09:06:32 http://repository.maemo.org/meego/n900-de/daily/1.1.99.5.20110504.4.DE.2011-05-06.1/images/mg-handset-armv7nhl-n900-de-acceptance/ has none at least May 06 09:06:43 timoph: is there any way using the web interface May 06 09:07:12 hmmh. May 06 09:07:25 please point me there May 06 09:08:52 you can branch it from actions May 06 09:09:02 currently I am inside my 'Build Service> Projects> home:kalinga> Packages ' May 06 09:09:41 Shall I select Add a new package? May 06 09:09:46 and "Create new package based on existing package " doesn't appear? May 06 09:09:47 goto the package's page and select "Branch Package" from the action menu. May 06 09:10:04 it creates a new brach to your home project May 06 09:10:16 timoph's way is easy too May 06 09:10:38 both ways should work May 06 09:10:52 but i dont see that 'Action' menu in my Package page May 06 09:11:09 are you logged in May 06 09:11:10 not yours. goto the packages page you want to branch May 06 09:11:43 ok got it May 06 09:11:57 thank timoph a lot May 06 09:12:19 np May 06 09:12:35 also i have one more uncleared...is there any way people compile their git code on OBS May 06 09:13:05 * one more doubt uncleared May 06 09:14:13 hurrah bug 7074 seems to be fixed May 06 09:14:16 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7074 nor, High, ---, shane.bryan, VERI FIXED, Incoming call can not be answered if dialer not open when call is received. May 06 09:15:16 bkalinga: we're working on that May 06 09:15:23 when do you want it compiles? May 06 09:15:28 every single commit? May 06 09:15:37 or every tag? May 06 09:15:41 on each branch? May 06 09:15:44 or just master? May 06 09:15:45 lbt: you're doing somekind of post commit hook? May 06 09:15:51 ok...actually i was thinking that should possible May 06 09:15:58 how do I put a post commit on the server? May 06 09:16:08 i am not going to compile now May 06 09:16:09 or do I rely on users having a local one? May 06 09:16:19 so there are a lot of interesting problems there May 06 09:16:20 Morning, all May 06 09:16:25 o/ May 06 09:16:27 alterego: pong May 06 09:16:28 timoph: indeed - but .... May 06 09:16:31 Jaffa: hey May 06 09:17:07 lbt on tag sounds reasonable May 06 09:17:18 I've been just using a simple shell script that I trigger manually to update the tar ball in obs May 06 09:17:28 merlin1991: any tag or a regexp match? (which I prefer) May 06 09:17:45 timoph: yep ... that's "easy" ... and I like it May 06 09:18:03 but for some reason people want an all-singing approach May 06 09:18:08 :) May 06 09:18:20 and I don't think they think it through May 06 09:18:45 actually github provides commit notifications May 06 09:18:49 gitorious doesn't May 06 09:19:12 Jaffa: doesn't matter anymore, though I might talk to you soon about meeting up at the airport? we can share cab fare ;) May 06 09:19:17 so I want a BOSS process which runs a per-git-repo check to decide what rules to use May 06 09:19:41 which n900-de image are people using today? May 06 09:19:55 so bkalinga the answer is "coming soon" :) May 06 09:20:30 nb ... I personally run a "send-to-OBS.sh" script May 06 09:21:02 lcuk: the latest? May 06 09:21:25 timoph, I tried that, the image is not there for May 06 09:21:32 http://repository.maemo.org/meego/n900-de/daily/1.1.99.5.20110504.4.DE.2011-05-06.1/images/mg-handset-armv7nhl-n900-de-acceptance/ May 06 09:21:54 and no log to indicate why May 06 09:22:32 or rather I cannot work out from the log May 06 09:23:05 hmmh May 06 09:23:37 sanity image is there May 06 09:23:46 acceptance seems to be missing May 06 09:26:09 hmph, gruml May 06 09:26:21 we still dont use self-compositing for the VKB in meego-handset? May 06 09:26:53 I thought that was sorted mikhas? May 06 09:27:02 nope May 06 09:27:06 just checked here May 06 09:27:28 VKB should run with -software and -use-self-composition to save GLES resources for other apps May 06 09:27:50 timoph/lbt: I think I wont be able to copy/branch 'meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard' from 'MeeGo:1.2:oss' beacuse i have access to build.pub.meego and the project is on build.meego :( May 06 09:28:19 of course you get an annoying flickering when focusing in on text entry, but at least it's more responsive ... May 06 09:28:34 bkalinga: I think you can May 06 09:28:53 it is asking for log in credential when i open that page May 06 09:29:32 and when i try to create it from pub domain it says MeeGo:1.2:oss no such project May 06 09:30:04 timoph, do you know what the usual package differences between them are? May 06 09:30:45 mikhas, is the flickering something that can have a bug filed against it and worked on? May 06 09:31:14 I dont really care about the flickering, I know that it would need fixes in the window manager May 06 09:31:22 I care about a slow device ... May 06 09:31:24 bkalinga: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/files?package=meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard&project=home%3Albt%3Adst May 06 09:31:27 see :) May 06 09:31:31 New Package Branch in Project home:kalinga Name of original project: MeeGo:1.2:oss Name of package in original project:meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard then selected Create branch May 06 09:31:33 mikhas, sure thing May 06 09:31:39 it shows Unable to find package 'meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard' in project 'MeeGo:1.2:oss'. May 06 09:31:48 OBS Web Interface Error: Target not found May 06 09:31:56 so make the tweak to maliit stuff to ensure and file a bug against the flickering once it is there? May 06 09:31:57 bkalinga: yeah ... timoph's approach can't push from one OBS to another May 06 09:32:03 you can only pull May 06 09:32:19 ok i am looking at your link May 06 09:32:20 on pub you use : MeeGo.com:MeeGo:1.2:oss May 06 09:32:24 as the source May 06 09:32:36 the autocomplete is a pain though May 06 09:33:30 bkalinga: no... don't do that May 06 09:33:41 you just branched my branch May 06 09:33:54 i selected branch package and is created a new branch May 06 09:34:02 from ? May 06 09:34:04 but not showing that in my project May 06 09:34:18 from your your package list May 06 09:34:22 mmm how hard can this be? May 06 09:34:26 go to your home May 06 09:34:44 go to packages May 06 09:34:50 how do i modify auto partitioning layout? May 06 09:34:54 click "Create new package based on existing package " May 06 09:35:15 Name of original project: MeeGo.com:MeeGo:1.2:oss May 06 09:35:25 Name of package in original project: meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard May 06 09:35:31 click create branch May 06 09:35:35 tada May 06 09:36:23 lbt: i did that any got the error Unable to find package 'meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard' in project 'MeeGo:1.2:oss'. May 06 09:36:46 did you read what I typed ? May 06 09:37:55 sorry lbt: this time it worked after prepend with 'MeeGo.com:' May 06 09:37:57 what about the wrong icon offset for the home screen? they all seem to be some 20px too far south May 06 09:38:03 :) May 06 09:38:16 so you have done an inter-OBS link May 06 09:38:34 there may be issues with it - it's a new feature May 06 09:38:43 but i created a branch out of your package what about that... May 06 09:38:51 I cleaned up :) May 06 09:39:01 where it ceated? May 06 09:39:10 I feel like I've achieved something, filed in the roommate preference May 06 09:39:43 https://build.pub.meego.com/package/files?package=meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard&project=home%3Akalinga May 06 09:40:05 yeah this is fine May 06 09:40:12 i am able to see this.. May 06 09:40:20 but due to my mistake May 06 09:40:21 I am not sure you can submit back - ask Stskeeps ? May 06 09:40:34 submit across OBS link? no May 06 09:40:38 ta May 06 09:40:51 hmm bossbot May 06 09:40:57 it created something..so where it got created? May 06 09:41:06 downloads are slow today May 06 09:41:10 i wonder how can i create something in your area May 06 09:41:17 which u can clean May 06 09:41:29 bkalinga: I can clean it because I'm admin May 06 09:41:56 the one you made is at https://build.pub.meego.com/package/files?package=meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard&project=home%3Akalinga May 06 09:41:59 ohh...so i must have ceated in my area which you cleaned up...:) May 06 09:42:27 correct .... you created a second-level branch which is just messy May 06 09:43:22 rihgt that name was including your brnach name 2nd level... thanks lbt for your help..actually new to this OBS May 06 09:43:30 so asking silly things May 06 09:44:06 np... May 06 09:52:51 how do i modify auto partitioning layout? May 06 09:55:08 morning May 06 09:55:20 hey lardman :) May 06 09:56:17 alterego: Was thinking of trying to get a BART 7 day pass or something May 06 09:56:31 hi lcuk May 06 09:56:51 What's that? :) May 06 09:56:54 Jaffa: ^ May 06 09:56:58 lcuk, https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17198 May 06 09:57:01 Bug 17198 nor, Undecided, ---, x2rich, NEW, Virtual keyboard should use its self-compositing feature and probably run in software mode, too May 06 09:57:27 alterego, transport system May 06 09:57:38 just reading the Harmattan stuff on the ml, who is Cosimo Kroll? May 06 09:58:34 lardman, which ml? May 06 09:58:39 link? May 06 09:58:55 maemo-community May 06 10:03:56 alterego: Bay Area Rapid Transit (IIRC). It's a tram/metro thingy May 06 10:04:11 alterego: Useful for getting around SF, and also links to the airport May 06 10:04:40 Neat May 06 10:05:03 Fancy letting me know how you get on with that? May 06 10:05:08 I'd probably be interested in getting one aswell. May 06 10:05:16 good morning MeeGoists May 06 10:05:21 Aloha Venemo_N900 May 06 10:05:23 alterego: Yeah, it's on my Google TODOlist May 06 10:05:29 :) May 06 10:05:33 Jaffa, good replies on that maemo-community ML thread May 06 10:05:38 hey alterego :) May 06 10:05:58 mikhas: Thanks :) May 06 10:06:13 and some food for thought, too May 06 10:06:15 w00t_ is right, the mess is a given. May 06 10:06:20 lardman, how is holly doing? tracy is like a beachball! May 06 10:06:24 :) May 06 10:06:44 * Jaffa suspects some hybrid of Forum Nokia, TMO, meego-* and FMC :-/ May 06 10:06:50 "beachball"? May 06 10:06:59 srsly? May 06 10:07:00 Which is at least 3 web fora more than I regularly read at the moment. May 06 10:07:37 Venemo_N900, yes very pregnant May 06 10:07:42 lcuk: she's fine, not too big, but certainly getting ther May 06 10:07:43 e May 06 10:08:22 lcuk: do you tell your wife that "You're like a beachball!" :D May 06 10:08:22 Jaffa: yes, I'm off web forums unless they are only for technical stuff May 06 10:08:33 lcuk: ah, then beachball is a good thing then :) May 06 10:08:40 lcuk: congrats to you :) May 06 10:11:15 :D May 06 10:12:04 lcuk: is it going to be a girl or a boy? May 06 10:13:06 a boy, though the size of here we are wondering whether there are more in there! :P May 06 10:13:32 lcuk: twins? :) May 06 10:14:15 no, we know there is only one in there May 06 10:14:51 err hope May 06 10:15:02 there is no room in the house for this one, let alone another May 06 10:15:35 ebay? May 06 10:15:45 lol... May 06 10:16:07 though we have the same problem, looking for somewhere bigger now May 06 10:16:20 lardman, I haven't looked on there for a new house, perhaps we should. May 06 10:16:51 there is an alternative, with a shipping fee.. ;) May 06 10:17:08 Probably a collect in person sort of thing though May 06 10:18:03 I'd better stop now, otherwise if I ever meet Mrs lcuk she'll kill me for suggesting it :) May 06 10:18:15 :D May 06 10:18:31 Mrs lardman will probably kill me for suggesting it anyway, must keep her away from the computer for a few days May 06 10:18:47 yes, better to just find a way to get a bigger house. May 06 10:29:17 lardman, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IqwnU_PwFQ o_O May 06 10:29:49 oh dear May 06 10:30:13 lardman, show it to Holly :D May 06 10:30:17 well we've only got one on the way, a girl May 06 10:30:35 that's just cruel, or do you reckon she'll then feel better about her situation? :) May 06 10:30:39 shall have to bring them to conferences :D May 06 10:30:57 DawnFoster, ping, would a creche at conferences be something feasible *grin* May 06 10:31:42 lcuk: well I'll try to make whatever get together is organised for the Autumn, mainly as I will be taking my holiday then to help with the newborn May 06 10:31:58 not sure Holly will be too keen though, unless she can go in my place :) May 06 10:32:10 heh yeah May 06 10:32:22 a friends wedding is taking place just a few days after tracys due date May 06 10:33:06 ah, so you can escape! :) May 06 10:33:16 :D May 06 10:37:58 lardman, we already said shall miss that one. May 06 10:38:20 * lcuk looking forward to baby :) May 06 10:38:49 Same here, just lots of work/housing stuff to get sorted before I can think about it May 06 10:38:57 too many irc channels :/. May 06 10:39:35 * lcuk is waiting for dd to finish May 06 10:40:31 alterego, yes May 06 10:51:11 I hate arranging flights May 06 10:51:17 I *HATE* arranging flights May 06 10:58:02 Myrtti: Aww :( May 06 10:58:10 Get someone else to do it for you? :P May 06 10:58:28 I am. It only dampens the feeling, as I am still watching him do it May 06 10:59:58 Hah May 06 11:00:09 Make a coffee :P May 06 11:05:55 if n900 is *cough* overclocked, does it also change the writing speed of the memorycard too? May 06 11:06:24 I recall in desktop days that it would change the databus speed May 06 11:10:03 * lcuk has dd at 714kB/s May 06 11:11:55 probably not May 06 11:11:57 is that on device? May 06 11:12:10 Or via usb storage mode? May 06 11:13:18 alterego, usb storage mode May 06 11:13:28 but it seems to take just as long May 06 11:13:32 I think it is the kind of card May 06 11:14:43 Yeah, that's pretty awful speeds, what class sd? May 06 11:14:58 I get about 7MB/S May 06 11:15:03 lcuk: why don't you write on desktop instead? May 06 11:15:08 dunno May 06 11:15:29 Stskeeps, I don't have a dongle thingy May 06 11:15:39 * alterego lost his microsd -> sd adapter :( May 06 11:15:42 get one, bloody chep :P May 06 11:15:55 I had two, can't find either May 06 11:16:53 I have three now May 06 11:16:57 I finally found the one I lost months ago May 06 11:17:03 three what? May 06 11:17:09 SD adapters May 06 11:17:16 heh. May 06 11:17:35 I had 2x micro to sd, and 1x micro to mini (and a mini to sd) May 06 11:17:53 the micro to mini broke :( May 06 11:18:06 and i've lost the to micro to sd adapters :/ May 06 11:18:24 ~two May 06 11:18:25 picobot: three May 06 11:18:33 Heh May 06 11:18:37 lol May 06 11:22:10 schweeeet: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13308452 May 06 11:22:35 Shame Nokia are killing their R&D depts. :D May 06 11:22:51 I imagine we'll see iPaper soon .. May 06 11:22:54 * alterego chuckles May 06 11:23:28 heh May 06 11:27:49 http://www.raspberrypi.org/ looks quite cool (/me was also browsing the BBC) - £15 computer May 06 11:29:42 That is neat :) May 06 11:30:11 25 dollars, wow .. May 06 11:30:23 Possible MeeGo dev platform? :) May 06 11:30:42 They're talking about CS in schools, may be a nice project to push. May 06 11:32:23 shame it's armv6 May 06 11:32:57 Yeah :/ May 06 11:33:48 i'm doing a armv6+vfp hardfp build atm i want to try on my n8x0 May 06 11:33:48 :P May 06 11:34:45 Cool May 06 11:34:55 Anyhow, got some stuff to do, bbiab :) May 06 12:28:14 has anyone noticed the screen responsiveness in n900-de today? May 06 12:28:53 wow, I'm really going to SF May 06 12:29:02 flights booked and paid May 06 12:29:05 Noice May 06 12:29:09 where are you flying from? May 06 12:29:11 mikhas, you were noticing other slowness to, I wonder if it is related May 06 12:29:14 Myrtti, :D May 06 12:29:57 alterego: ryanscare from TMP @.fi to STN @.uk, United from LHR to SFO, and reverse May 06 12:30:31 Standsted -> LHR .... have you done that trip before? May 06 12:31:33 eeeeep May 06 12:31:33 yeah that's like... 2 hours journey May 06 12:31:38 that's not nice at all May 06 12:31:52 (I have done it, and never wish to repeat it) May 06 12:32:06 I know what I'm doing, folks ;-) May 06 12:32:26 Myrtti: better to ask and be sure ... especially for that May 06 12:32:35 Myrtti: I'm going too, from TMP @.fi May 06 12:32:51 * w00t_ is going from MAN to AMS to SFO May 06 12:33:06 * lbt is LHR -> SFO .... *g* May 06 12:33:32 there is a stopover in Cambridgeshire before and after the flights to and from SFO ;-) May 06 12:33:53 aha :) May 06 12:33:54 lcuk, rakesh mentioned that it might be the MeeGo GS May 06 12:34:03 GS? May 06 12:34:04 it now got enabled in Qt or so? May 06 12:34:08 graphics system May 06 12:34:12 ahh May 06 12:34:16 it's in one of Qt's plugin folders May 06 12:34:27 so just moving it away from there, one could test perhaps ... May 06 12:34:57 do you know which folder, I could give it a try May 06 12:35:04 Myrtti: ah, I'm flying from LHR on Saturday with Virgin Atlantic May 06 12:35:12 they're nice May 06 12:35:12 the MESA backend probably doesnt like SW/HW switching for rendering May 06 12:35:34 lcuk, /usr/lib/qt4/plugins/graphicssystems/ May 06 12:35:50 Will they have plugs for my laptop do you think? :) May 06 12:36:04 10 hours is a long time to be twiddling ones' thumbs May 06 12:36:17 no, but they have a nice on-flight system May 06 12:36:23 Darn May 06 12:36:32 I bought an extra battery for my N800 for my flights last year May 06 12:36:46 I've got a total of three batteries at the moment for my N900 May 06 12:36:50 didn't use it in the end, the flight had nice movies May 06 12:37:09 I'll be find with paper, pencil and N900 blasting music :) May 06 12:37:14 s/find/fine/ May 06 12:37:15 alterego meant: I'll be fine with paper, pencil and N900 blasting music :) May 06 12:37:28 like the fantastic mr. fox and inglorious bastards May 06 12:37:43 Inglorious Bastards was quite good May 06 12:37:46 might have watched men who stare at goats too, but I think I might have been quite tired at that point May 06 12:37:53 Oh, I like that one too :D May 06 12:38:33 lcuk, it is actually quite insane to deploy MeeGo GS if you havent tested it for the GL backend May 06 12:39:00 Oh, interesting, flights on thursday have dropped. May 06 12:39:10 Might be able to have that extra day I wanted. May 06 12:40:10 --> http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Conference_Spring_2011/Flight_Information <-- May 06 12:40:14 don't forget May 06 12:40:43 mikhas, dunno, since you have looked have you seen a bug related to it? May 06 12:41:23 lcuk, no May 06 12:41:38 information just happens to flow to me, you know May 06 12:41:40 gok i will have a look May 06 12:41:48 but I see that the plugin is indeed there May 06 12:50:03 That BA flight is expensive May 06 12:50:10 phaeron: looking at the Apps: process now May 06 12:50:41 God, when are they gonna fix the single signon wiki thing May 06 12:51:46 lbt: Prefer: foo-* didn't work May 06 12:51:53 needed to specify the full name May 06 12:52:18 :( May 06 12:52:25 can patch OBS May 06 12:52:31 maybe do it now for 2.3 May 06 12:52:47 why do we always discover issues towards the end of the cycle May 06 12:52:56 lbt: or maybe it is already implemented in 2.3 May 06 12:53:06 I am testing on 2.1 May 06 13:15:21 hi guyes May 06 13:15:39 anyone can recommend a good case for the wetab MeeGo ? May 06 13:16:23 Probably not the best place to ask Fargh May 06 13:16:29 Try wetab user forums. May 06 13:16:41 u got a point there :) May 06 13:17:06 but does that mean no-one here has a wetab ? May 06 13:18:42 the one I have came with a zippered jacket type of case May 06 13:19:20 mine came with a small tissue bag May 06 13:19:43 you're lucky then :P May 06 13:20:24 a tissue bag is just keeping the dust out .. not really a protection May 06 13:21:15 i assume there isnt one marketed so far ... May 06 13:21:46 something like this is nice : http://shop.cool-bananas.de/product_info.php?info=p1558_SmartGuy-Book-Stand-Leder-Tasche-fuer-das-iPad-2-in-Ebony.html May 06 13:22:44 * gabrbedd stretches May 06 13:22:50 good morning! May 06 13:23:03 Fargh: they have a community forum http://www.wetab-community.com/index.php?/topic/13344-wetab-case/ May 06 13:23:23 no leather bag marketed for WeTab ? I smell an oportunity for grandmothers with good sewing machines May 06 13:23:26 it's pretty OT here ;) May 06 13:24:00 read on phaeron ... only links to ipad cases or to notebook bags May 06 13:24:19 Yes, we only talk about the mad scramble towards irrelevency that is MeeGo and not anybody shipping actual devices! May 06 13:24:20 it says the size can fit May 06 13:24:24 but thanks for looking phaeron May 06 13:47:06 * timeless_w7ip did eventually file a bug about the fields never showing May 06 14:03:40 X-Fade: OK - Apps:Testing process is looking reasonable May 06 14:04:24 there's a check to see if the app is registered and to make sure it comes from the registered source May 06 14:04:45 does anyone want to submit to Apps:Testing ? May 06 14:33:18 Server returned an error: HTTP Error 401: basic auth failed May 06 14:33:24 hm, so why not ask me for a new password then? May 06 14:33:26 * dwmw2_gone_ kicks osc May 06 14:33:57 DawnFoster: thanks for the reminder on the mailing lists May 06 14:34:08 thiago: yep May 06 14:34:11 * thiago wonders if that's a losing battle though May 06 14:34:16 and since his questions was about apis May 06 14:34:22 meego-dev is the main ML and these will come up all the time May 06 14:34:24 he'll get a better answer on meego-sdk May 06 14:34:41 since the people working on the apis don't really follow meego-dev that closely May 06 14:35:16 yeah, it's a never ending battle May 06 14:35:40 had I been here when the mailing lists were created, that one would *not* have been named meego-dev May 06 14:36:04 rename to meego-distro May 06 14:36:21 renaming mailing lists is problematic May 06 14:36:43 either you redirect meego-dev to the new name & you end up with all of the same issues May 06 14:37:01 or you completely break how people have set up their contacts / filters May 06 14:37:20 I wonder when the thought of really, really traveling to SF will sink in May 06 14:38:06 FWIW, people get better answers on meego-dev than they do in meego-sdk. May 06 14:38:18 ... oh yeah, on Monday when I'm being reminded with an injection needle. May 06 14:38:26 Also, the last time I suggested something was OT in meego-dev... it didn't go well for me. :-/ May 06 14:38:37 So, I don't think it'll end without renaming it. May 06 14:39:13 the django-project has the same problem for years, they just live with it May 06 14:39:18 and friendly moderators May 06 14:39:51 Isn't there also an upcoming (or current) transition from @meego.com to @lists.meego.com May 06 14:40:06 Maybe do it all at once... while people are updating their filter rules. :-) May 06 14:40:58 mmm ... the tried and tested: "oh look, here's a problem ... fixing it will be a bit painful. Lets wait and see if it gets better as we grow bigger." May 06 14:41:54 Myrtti, needles? May 06 14:41:58 DawnFoster: do you know something about the Hyatt being full on Saturday? May 06 14:43:29 thiago: if someone needs a room at the hyatt, they can contact Amy. She manages the room block & might be able to rearrange something on the back end May 06 14:43:57 I also don't think we've combined people yet for sponsored travel - that will free up some rooms May 06 14:44:17 it's just that two people told me that on our website, they can get rooms for the other days but not Saturday May 06 14:44:47 * dwmw2_gone_ hates the suse build tools May 06 14:44:53 osc is *such* a pile of shit May 06 14:45:03 dwmw2_gone_: do you prefer scratchbox? May 06 14:45:21 that doesn't really do the same thing May 06 14:45:30 dwmw2_gone_: send a patch May 06 14:45:31 I didn't mean "build"; I meant osc. May 06 14:45:59 I changed my password and it just says 'basic auth failed' and doesn't ask me to give it a new password May 06 14:46:07 and I can't work out how to make it ask for a new password May 06 14:46:38 it's failing to log in to api.meego.com, but seems to be asking gnome-keyring for a password for some *other* url. It usees whatever server is defined last in ~/.oscrc, rather than the one it's actually talking to May 06 14:46:39 edit the .oscrc, remove the reference May 06 14:46:58 and use -A http://whateverapi.dot.com May 06 14:47:06 so I put api.meego.com last, and then it gets a negative answer from gkr (because I removed the old password in an attempt to make osc ask me for the new one) May 06 14:47:09 and it *still* fails May 06 14:47:17 Stskeeps: no, it *is* talking to api.meego.com May 06 14:47:21 this is an 'osc commit' May 06 14:47:25 so it gets it from the local directory May 06 14:48:04 removing the api.meego.com section from osc *entirely* makes it work May 06 14:48:25 now it just complains that the SSL certificate on the build system is invalid May 06 14:48:33 GAN900: Clexane May 06 14:49:58 Myrtti, ah, yeah. Fun. :/ May 06 14:50:32 probably saline first, so I learn how to do it :-/ May 06 14:50:38 extreme fun :-/ May 06 14:51:22 dwmw2_gone_: I sympathise .... we've wasted hours with various stupid bugs :) May 06 14:53:00 * Stskeeps wonders if removing libmeegotouch dependancies from meego core is fair game for 1.3 May 06 14:53:46 our internal build system has been broken for a week and nobody shows any sign of caring May 06 14:54:11 dwmw2_gone_: where? May 06 14:54:26 lbt: Intel May 06 14:54:41 ah ... tell 'em you need a decent OBS guy May 06 14:54:49 * lbt May 06 14:55:22 I was just about to reply to you on the ml ... ipv6 .... ROFL May 06 14:55:37 "The MeeGo IT team is always looking for suitable volunteers with plenty of free time to sort out the deployment issues.... :)" May 06 14:56:22 Stskeeps: was libmeegotouch in core for 1.2 ?? May 06 14:56:26 why laugh at IPv6? With APNIC already effectively out of IPv4 addresses, anyone who *still* isn't IPv6-capable is severely behind the times May 06 14:56:34 dwmw2_gone_: but ... I was also going to say that if you seriously want to help advise how we should deploy ipv6 then I'll make some time to chat at SF2011 May 06 14:56:35 it's inexcusable May 06 14:56:47 I may not be there. May 06 14:56:52 * lbt is too busy and is ignorant May 06 14:56:53 almost certainly not, in fact May 06 14:57:07 my last IPv6 experiment was in ~2001 May 06 14:57:16 IPv6 is simple enough. Give me a box on the appropriate subnet, and I can advertise IPv6 to all the machines that want to use it. May 06 14:57:17 ipv6 is like reality, it doesnt go away if you dont believe in it May 06 14:57:31 gabrbedd: i've just tried to rip it out, but it seems so :P May 06 14:57:39 tell that to my ignorant ISP May 06 14:57:40 berndhs: I need someone I can trust to advise me May 06 14:57:55 my ISP gives me native IPv6 as well as Legacy IP on the ADSL line. May 06 14:57:57 we need to understand the issues (particularl security) May 06 14:58:11 there are no security issues that are not exactly the same as they would be for Legacy IP May 06 14:58:12 I have no clue how to setup an ipv6 firewall May 06 14:58:19 it's exactly the same as for Legacy IP May 06 14:58:25 and just as pointless. May 06 14:58:32 *g* May 06 14:58:38 If you don't want to answer connections on a given port, the kernel has a built-in "firewall" May 06 14:58:46 it'll automatically send a RST packet for you! May 06 14:58:55 all you have to do it not call bind() to bind to that port! May 06 14:59:23 we have a variety of machines in there ... May 06 14:59:29 lbt: i've set up an IOS ipv6 firewall and i am still getting therapy for it May 06 14:59:53 bye chaps May 06 15:01:09 Stskeeps: hrm. That surprises me. I thought it was getting mixed in at the UX level packages. May 06 15:01:10 dwmw2_gone_: I can't set it up until I understand possibly by proxy) what I'm doing. Not knowing ipv6 firewalling it would be foolish to assume that the issues are the same May 06 15:01:33 gabrbedd: the loop goes xdg-utils -> libcontentaction -> libmeegotouch and some stuff with qt mobility May 06 15:01:37 though even a 1-liner on irc helps... May 06 15:01:47 the issues are *exactly* the same May 06 15:02:00 the protocols underneath IPv6 (ICMP/TCP/UDP) are all exactly the same May 06 15:02:21 well, we rely on NAT to prevent routed access from outside to internal boxes May 06 15:02:23 it's just a different address. May 06 15:02:31 that's always been fundamentally stupid and broken May 06 15:02:39 there are *so* many ways that NAT allows incoming connections May 06 15:02:44 ALGs like FTP, uPNP, etc. May 06 15:03:14 just use a connection-tracking firewall to prevent incoming connections, if you really insist on listening on a port on which you *don't* want to accept things really May 06 15:04:55 well, we have VMs inside that reasonably trusted users have root on - when they accidentally install something ... May 06 15:05:30 so yes, we want to have multiple layers of protection for our human-ness May 06 15:05:39 it is fascinating how hugely resistant to change people in high-tech innovative industyry are May 06 15:06:27 berndhs: what's the "exposure" of deploying ipv6 vs not deploying it? May 06 15:06:41 and how much use will it get? May 06 15:07:05 the exposure of not deploying it is that APNIC is out of new IPv4 addresses *now* May 06 15:07:20 so people in charge of networks have to start working on it May 06 15:07:27 not start to thinkg about planning it May 06 15:07:33 start working on it. Now. May 06 15:07:44 * Stskeeps decides to start ww2 by asking if it's fair game to remove libmeegotouch deps in meego core May 06 15:07:47 er, ww3 May 06 15:08:07 a simple connection-tracking firewall (which is needed to do NAT anyway) is all that's needed for that. May 06 15:08:16 berndhs: so I should implement it before finding out about it? :) May 06 15:08:37 lbt: seriously, if you need any assistance with setting up IPv6, please let me know May 06 15:08:40 you and the rest should quit stalling May 06 15:09:19 the industry is stalling because people dont feel like working on it, because they thiunk it is new May 06 15:09:30 dwmw2_gone_: OK - thanks. Having someone to sanity check with (and to inform mgm that we have as a 'backstop/consultant/HELP' guy is useful) May 06 15:10:00 berndhs: like I said ~2001 was my first go ... it was lonely May 06 15:10:14 I've been running IPv6 since about 2001 too. May 06 15:10:22 right, 10 years ago May 06 15:10:44 Stskeeps: I was going to say, that would be some super modification if you could go back in time as well ;) May 06 15:11:10 MAybe you could take maemo with you and subtly leave it on Nokia's door step 5 years early ;) May 06 15:11:15 meego May 06 15:11:15 :P May 06 15:11:34 I don't think that's quite ready yet :P May 06 15:11:46 Though, if you took it back to then, then it'd probably be ready by now :D May 06 15:12:46 you could go back a couple of years and suggest that perhaps using maemo as the basis for the meego handset ux instead of throwing it all away and starting from scratch might help with time-to-market :) May 06 15:13:33 *g* May 06 15:13:40 and that rewriting all of the code in order to just provide a new 3rd party API wasn't the best choice either... :P May 06 15:13:53 that too May 06 15:14:01 hello Robot101. How goes it? May 06 15:14:18 i still maintain that if maemo had made the jump to a meego-like model like i proposed back in october 2008 http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed , we would have been in an entirely different situation now May 06 15:14:22 :P May 06 15:14:35 pretty good, except the all-day meetings, nocturnal lawyer confcalls, and currently a very annoying headache - probably due to lack of lunch or coffee May 06 15:14:44 how goes it with you? May 06 15:15:02 busy. http://connie.woodhou.se/ May 06 15:15:23 :D congratulations! May 06 15:15:27 ta May 06 15:15:28 awwwwww May 06 15:15:35 congrats on forking the process May 06 15:16:10 dwmw2_gone_: are you in cambs these days? May 06 15:16:20 as close as ever, yes. May 06 15:16:23 dwmw2_gone_, grats! your first? May 06 15:16:25 dwmw2_gone_: was talking to rgs yesterday and couldn't remember if you were hereabouts or london May 06 15:16:43 dwmw2_gone_: we should get lunch/dinner/beer/something May 06 15:16:43 Head to Addenbrookes and keep going for about 15 miles. May 06 15:16:48 Robot101: indeed. May 06 15:17:08 I normally try to get in to Charlie Chan's for Dim Sum with a few hacker-types on the first friday of each month May 06 15:17:11 didn't happen today though May 06 15:17:20 dneary: thanks. Yes. May 06 15:18:25 dwmw2_gone_: the resounding deadness of stuff like cambs lug when you actually work out the OSS people who live around here is kinda sad May 06 15:18:33 yeah :) May 06 15:18:34 dwmw2_gone_, It's a life changer :) May 06 15:18:40 we should establish some kind of cabal forthwith May 06 15:18:46 indeed we should May 06 15:19:00 that and you should come and see our swanky new offices :D May 06 15:19:07 we should also make Imad pay you to develop telepathy-sipe May 06 15:19:29 mfleming made a start on it May 06 15:19:53 oh really? cool. re-using some code or from scratch? May 06 15:20:17 *sigh* it would be nice to stay in Cambs for longer than three days this time :-/ May 06 15:20:23 we could do a proposal - unfortunately I think the most sensible route forward is to just fix up libpurple's API so telepathy-haze will actually pick up the sipe plugin properly May 06 15:20:33 it would have nice benefits on msn, yahoo, aim, icq, etc etc then too May 06 15:20:42 and, well, we have to maintain less :) May 06 15:21:00 unless there's been a big regeime change on the protocol May 06 15:21:29 makes sense May 06 15:21:53 we *kind* of had it working with telepathy-haze, iirc. May 06 15:22:09 yeah I think we just need to plug away at that for a while May 06 15:22:20 we've got some libpurple hackers knocking around May 06 15:22:28 we started to wire up audio/video in libpurple to telepathy May 06 15:22:34 but then we got distracted by a bee May 06 15:22:35 cool May 06 15:28:09 DawnFoster, Ping? May 06 15:28:20 hey dneary May 06 15:30:27 Hi DawnFoster May 06 15:30:43 I was expecting to hear back from you/Adam yesterday May 06 15:31:26 I just re-sent it to Adam to see what we can do May 06 15:31:35 I have a nagging feeling I've forgotten something important again May 06 15:31:40 I *hate* this May 06 15:31:57 OK May 06 15:32:02 I'm stuck now May 06 15:33:50 X-Fade: ping May 06 15:36:22 Myrtti: fly up? May 06 15:36:55 does anyone hava an app for MeeGo Apps ? May 06 15:37:46 lbt: The only one I know of is AppUp's. May 06 15:38:05 lbt: And the package mgr on Netbook May 06 15:38:05 :D May 06 15:38:17 we have the meego.com Apps too May 06 15:38:28 I want an "app" May 06 15:39:19 if you do an osc sr to MeeGo:1.2:Apps:Testing then it runs some automated checks and promotes it May 06 15:39:22 gabrbedd: is the source for AppUp available somewhere? May 06 15:39:30 Alan1234: no May 06 15:39:36 fully closed May 06 15:40:34 shame. I expect we'll see each vendor reinventing that wheel to fragment^W customize the user experience May 06 15:40:52 yes/no May 06 15:40:58 lbt: well, the gooey pkg management stuff in netbook was buggy last I checked. Esp wrt adding/removing repos. May 06 15:41:00 AppUp is a white-label offering May 06 15:41:09 lbt: but that may have been libzypp bugs that are now fixed. May 06 15:41:25 gabrbedd: yeah ... I want a fart-app May 06 15:41:51 like one of the maemo extras : http://maemo.org/downloads/ May 06 15:41:59 lbt: so Intel aren't going to choke it. I figured the source might be open but the signing woudl not be May 06 15:42:10 * gabrbedd starts working on an audio sample for a realistic fart, for lbt. May 06 15:42:39 Alan1234: Intel want to own the AppStore market for MeeGo May 06 15:42:55 which is a noble goal :) May 06 15:43:08 it is? May 06 15:43:09 they will allow OSS apps May 06 15:43:21 and they will allow us to charge for them too May 06 15:43:44 I'm working on a proposal to AppUp to link to the community OBS May 06 15:43:50 they're interested May 06 15:44:49 sounds good. I'd still be suprised if other vendors didn't insist on having their own stores but I'd like to hope it all works out nicely May 06 15:45:35 oh, they can ... Intel will try and do deals to white label for other vendors May 06 15:45:49 the 30% cut they take will be shared to the Intel/vendors May 06 17:12:26 unixODBC.i586: E: devel-file-in-non-devel-package (Badness: 50) /usr/lib/libodbcinst.so May 06 17:12:33 hm, I think that file is *supposed* to be there May 06 17:12:51 how do I stop my build from failing with that 'error' ? May 06 17:13:11 isn't there a proper .so.something file? May 06 17:14:05 you're aware of what ODBC is? May 06 17:14:52 yes, sadly May 06 17:15:10 if it's a 'legit' .so, add a rpmlintrc workaround May 06 17:15:26 you can you do that in the build system? May 06 17:16:05 * dwmw2_gone_ is trying to get OOo to build again (in devel:enterprise:ooo) May 06 17:16:16 as a precursor to getting the libreoffice packages in devel:enterprise:libreoffice to build May 06 17:17:57 dwmw2_gone_: either rpmlint filter or fix it so that it's versioned May 06 17:18:20 unversioned .so files ... May 06 17:18:40 http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Packaging_checks#Suppressing_False_Positives May 06 17:18:56 yup May 06 17:19:15 it's still bad May 06 17:19:57 I thought the whole point was that the standard method of getting database access was to load libodbc.so May 06 17:20:03 no version number May 06 17:24:03 dwmw2_gone_: You're right... you need it in your main pkg. May 06 17:24:21 in this case the rpmlint rule ir probably best May 06 17:24:29 s/ir/is/ May 06 17:24:30 sofar meant: in this case the rpmlint rule is probably best May 06 17:24:31 FWIW, I copied fedora's .spec, and I didn't have any trouble building it. May 06 17:24:47 gabrbedd: for unixODBC? May 06 17:24:51 But this was several months ago. May 06 17:24:55 the one in devel:enterprise:ooo is also from Fedora May 06 17:24:56 dwmw2_gone_: Yes. May 06 17:25:20 gabrbedd: were you also building OOo (or libreoffice) ? May 06 17:25:33 or did you have some other reason for wanting unixODBC? May 06 17:25:45 I don't recall what needed it. Either wine or Mixxx May 06 17:25:58 Something like that. May 06 17:26:34 addFilter("devel-file-in-non-devel-package.*/usr/lib/libodbcinst.so") May 06 17:27:27 http://build.meego.com/package/files?package=unixODBC&project=devel%3Aenterprise%3Aooo May 06 17:27:30 what did I do wrong? May 06 17:28:08 * npm proposes another release blocker https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16879 May 06 17:28:10 Bug 16879 nor, Low, ---, peter.j.zhu, NEW, hunspell dumps core with default english dictionary, and is installed with no default dictionary May 06 17:30:41 ah, it just hadn't *tried* to rebuild it May 06 17:30:44 love it when it does that May 06 17:30:51 better now I manually triggered a rebuild May 06 17:31:22 .... or you can just install libreoffice: http://wiki.meego.com/LibreOffice May 06 17:31:39 gabrbedd: have you figured out how to get mixxx waveform display working May 06 17:31:51 npm: yes. May 06 17:31:58 ooh! May 06 17:32:04 meewant! May 06 17:32:15 what's it worth to you? (hee... hee...) May 06 17:32:18 npm: hm, that does seem like it might be a sane approach :) May 06 17:32:22 a GPL? May 06 17:33:16 it is the sane approach, unless you're one of those unrealistic people that thinks its foolish to load RPMs targetted for other distros May 06 17:33:31 GPL doesn't require me to give you a copy... :-p May 06 17:33:52 I'll send you the workaround tonight via e-mail. May 06 17:33:58 cool! May 06 17:34:05 Feel free to remind me. May 06 17:34:11 * gabrbedd is forgetful. May 06 17:34:20 i've been using the nonwaveform display. actually i almost like it better May 06 17:34:45 forces me to use the meters and my ears more old school style May 06 17:35:04 plus you can "scratch" the display easier May 06 17:35:28 npm: Yes, that's true (and a good reason not to use the waveforms) May 06 17:35:36 hm, is there *only* the tarball of rpms? May 06 17:35:47 is there no yum repository that can just be configured? May 06 17:35:48 i wonder if there should be a meegoconf music making jam May 06 17:35:52 npm: But they're so much cooler to show your friends. :-) May 06 17:36:13 what's cooler to show your friends is mixing with a wiimote :-) May 06 17:36:17 dwmw2_gone_: Huh?? May 06 17:36:18 (done) May 06 17:36:23 npm: :-) May 06 17:36:40 I'm trying to build MeeGo images with LibreOffice in May 06 17:36:54 npm: Unfortunately... I've been hacking so hard I my musician chops won't be up to snuff. May 06 17:36:55 although i don't want to purchase a USB powered IR bar just to get better tracking May 06 17:37:03 me too May 06 17:37:08 so ideally, I need the actual packages in a yum repository somewhere, and to add that repo (and the package names) to my .ks file May 06 17:37:42 but i will bring some tunes and my bcd3000 incase anybody wants to see (and maybe my qchord just for fun) May 06 17:38:21 dwmw2_gone_: dump them in a folder. run `createrepo` on them. Set up a local webserver. Put the URL (http://localhost/my-sweet-repo/) in the .ks May 06 17:38:31 well yes May 06 17:38:43 but in that case they don't get updated with new releases :) May 06 17:39:02 dwmw2_gone_: then for compliance you get to compile it yourself. May 06 17:39:16 Dump the new ones in... then re-run createrepo. May 06 17:39:18 :-) May 06 17:39:51 (However... mic/yum/zypper sometimes doesn't update the cache very well :-/) May 06 17:39:54 although i'm curious what's the "compliance" story on having your own app downloader that just DLs the RPM from libreoffice and installs it May 06 17:41:12 not sure how the compliance story would work out otherwise, for installing nonfree codecs, flash, skype, java, google-talk-plugin, google-chrome, etc May 06 17:41:33 npm: AFAIK, compliance just has to do with the deps of your app. If your app has nefarious purposes... I don't think compliance speaks to that effect. May 06 17:41:58 npm: Compliance has to do with selling single applications to customers and they "just work" May 06 17:42:27 "user convenience" and "being on par with other linux distros" is nefarious... May 06 17:42:29 ? May 06 17:42:32 npm: But you don't have to be "compliant" in order to be installed. You just can't market is as a MeeGo app. May 06 17:43:04 npm: Package installer that circumvents normal repos and quality conventions to download random tarballs and rpms... May 06 17:43:34 That's not exactly "above board" -- but I meant "nefarious" with a grin. :-) May 06 17:44:22 compliance will thus mean multiple copies of nonfree and proprietary code, all not up to the latest security patches... for example google chrome is distributed with it's own flash, that had a security issue that was fixed by adobe already May 06 17:45:15 that is what you get when you distribute binary code from other people May 06 17:45:26 which is why I'd be much happier getting LibreOffice builds *into* the MeeGo build system May 06 17:45:40 npm: that has nothing to do with compliance. May 06 17:45:45 third-party builds tend to use a lot of static libraries (Chrome is an extreme example) May 06 17:45:49 well, compliance is not only for quality, it is also for some measure of control of the market May 06 17:46:14 I have no idea what you think the word 'compliance' means :) May 06 17:46:22 gabrbedd, thanks for the advice yesterday, I installed latest 1.1.99 last night May 06 17:46:29 but as long as you comply with my demands, I don't care May 06 17:46:43 reed: you're welcome! glad it worked out. May 06 17:47:05 dwmw2_gone_: except with a package as complex as libreoffice of chrome, there's not enough MeeGo users to make the packaging secure (from perspective of many eyebals). May 06 17:47:20 well, we have chromium anyway in MeeGo May 06 17:47:34 compliance: n. A contract between the OS and and App so that stuff "just works." May 06 17:47:34 gabrbedd, 'worked' is a big word :) there are many glitches still... for one, the 'home' button doesn't respond May 06 17:47:35 we need our own build, to get the integration right May 06 17:47:51 and in my case, I need it so that we have NTLM single-sign-on so it works to all our internal web sites without constantly asking for passwords May 06 17:47:53 and chromium in meego is a security hole for exactly the reasons mentioned May 06 17:47:54 https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16284 May 06 17:47:56 Bug 16284 nor, Medium, ---, yang.jie, NEW, Chromium browser sandbox feature is not working in MeeGo builds May 06 17:48:22 because these programs are insanely hard to package/manage/etc and i'd rarther have the people developing them packaging them... May 06 17:48:25 why chromium instead of mozilla? (FAQ?) May 06 17:48:33 reed: The 'home' button works off the "windows key". Is that the button you were pressing? May 06 17:48:57 npm: compliance is /not/ your enemy. May 06 17:49:02 gabrbedd, no response either from the keyboard or from the actual button on the exopc slate May 06 17:49:27 reed: Please file a bug. :-) May 06 17:49:33 indeed! May 06 17:49:40 npm: the problem is that those who package it upstream don't do a good job *either* of making the distro packages May 06 17:49:51 npm: What you're doing doesn't qualify as "compliant" -- but neither is it "vorboden." May 06 17:50:07 and you get similar problems. You fix a security hole in some library in MeeGo, but the "real" chrome doesn't get automatically fixed, because it uses its own version May 06 17:50:11 it's just that they don't package it for meego. they package for fedora or ubuntu May 06 17:50:39 npm: However the "meegolem" stuff is a bit of a problem because of the name you chose. But the actual stuff you're doing is OK. May 06 17:51:01 Anyway... I need to go. May 06 17:51:06 * gabrbedd is away May 06 17:51:28 reed: I use firefox4: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Lem-Firefox4 May 06 17:51:35 it's very nice May 06 17:52:29 does flash plugin crash? :) May 06 17:53:15 I think I understand why chromium: screen real estate :( May 06 17:53:29 gabrbedd: i know compliance is not my enemy. it's just my opinion that the compliance needs to be the other way around.... meego needs to comply w/ other distros because you will always be installing RPMs from other linuxes in the real world May 06 17:53:56 until the number of meego users > number of fedora + ubuntu users May 06 17:54:00 npm, "you will always be installing RPMs from other linuxes in the real world" seriously? May 06 17:54:13 good joke indeed May 06 17:54:14 I don't think so, especially not on tablets May 06 17:54:18 do you have a meego RPM for java? May 06 17:54:22 flash? May 06 17:54:24 skype? May 06 17:54:27 google-talk plugin? May 06 17:54:30 i could go on May 06 17:55:06 to quote an old friend of mine: if it's not in debian, it doesn't exist... we could say the same s/debian/meego May 06 17:55:21 no skype for meego? skype doesn't exist May 06 17:55:43 (and it's a good thing) May 06 17:55:57 well tell that to your clients that pay your bills because they talk to you on skype May 06 17:56:01 http://jitsi.org/index.php/Main/SideBar May 06 17:56:12 npm, get an android tablet May 06 17:56:14 :) May 06 17:56:19 no thanks May 06 17:56:40 or re-package skype for meego May 06 17:56:58 why waste time? it's already installed and running. May 06 17:57:11 there is no way IMHO to mix packages between distros... it's just bad, the holy grail we looked for over 20 years May 06 17:57:17 it doesn't exist May 06 17:57:38 npm: That's what extras/surrounds is for. May 06 17:57:49 just download the fedora version: http://www.skype.com/intl/en/get-skype/on-your-computer/linux/downloading.fedora May 06 17:57:57 sudo rpm -ivh skype-2.2.0.25-fedora.i586.rpm May 06 17:58:01 and you're done May 06 17:58:07 npm: feel free to file a bug complaining that the no deps rule will lead to lots of duplications May 06 17:58:13 note there's no "downloading.meego" link May 06 17:58:32 expecting java, etc. from upstream meego is like expecting proprietary drivers from mainline kernel May 06 17:58:52 i don't expect it. the user expects it. May 06 17:58:58 i just want to make it easy for user May 06 17:59:12 gabrbedd: "random rpms" no, but what about thinks like eclipse that have their own installer/updater: still "nefarious" (tongue in cheek or not)? May 06 17:59:23 the download can happen when the user brings up the tablet/netbook/handheld for first time May 06 17:59:26 yeah. but those things should be added by device vendors May 06 18:00:01 and those things might not be able to be added by device vendors w/o special deals, which some device vendors are big enough to have May 06 18:01:59 true but IMO upstream meego should be clean from those bits May 06 18:02:08 dwmw2_gone_: plugins are a pain for this system, it's kind of pretentious of the builder to be flagging the plugins (which are pretty much always plain .so) as "development files" May 06 18:02:09 sure May 06 18:02:15 i agree it should be lean May 06 18:02:16 clean May 06 18:02:34 but there's no reason why an app can't be included to DL all the proprietary/third party stuff May 06 18:02:38 much like on ubuntu May 06 18:03:01 yep. That's where the surrounds/extras should come in May 06 18:03:17 but wouldn't that app be noncompliant? May 06 18:03:51 can surrounds/extras package java/skype/flash/etc? May 06 18:04:07 seems like a copyright violation May 06 18:04:12 not sure. I'd guess no since the servers are hosted in US May 06 18:04:15 mwichmann: BTW, how should an application market itself if it's not meego compliant... but for meego? May 06 18:04:40 meegoloid? May 06 18:04:50 not a question for me, I wish I knew May 06 18:04:54 I.e. how do you indicate that "This is a specialized app that runs on MeeGo, but is not a MeeGo App" May 06 18:05:07 :) May 06 18:05:30 build it into one big static blob :p May 06 18:05:53 mwichmann: fun stuff. May 06 18:05:55 :-) May 06 18:06:06 one answer is you put the restrictions on "MeeGo Certified" or some such compound term, and leave MeeGo less restricted May 06 18:06:11 not the approach chosen, though May 06 18:06:27 but yeah. The community provided thing will have libs that are not available in meego itself May 06 18:07:01 maemo extras is a good example for that May 06 18:07:19 FWIW ... I got the automation process running today May 06 18:07:56 if anyone wants to submitrequest to MeeGo:1.2:Apps:Testing ... it'll be automatically rejected :) May 06 18:08:08 with trace happening #meego-boss May 06 18:10:35 :) May 06 18:10:42 in community obs? May 06 18:10:44 yes May 06 18:11:02 re timoph: "build it into one big static blob" yeah... so each app gets its own copy of /opt/google/chrome/libffmpegsumo.so May 06 18:11:05 now that's progress! May 06 18:11:12 :D May 06 18:11:26 npm: it's bit like java May 06 18:11:36 no, it's worse May 06 18:11:42 don't forget Sun / Intel sell hardware ;) May 06 18:11:46 * timoph installs osc to this machine and tries May 06 18:12:08 timoph: go to #meego-boss too May 06 18:12:49 it's like java in android --- basically a waste.... May 06 18:13:39 So how is extras/surrounds going to be presented to the public? Does that get a bye because of the meego.com domain? May 06 18:13:48 no May 06 18:14:04 there's no answer yet May 06 18:14:30 hmmh. no support for ubuntu 11.04 yet :( May 06 18:14:44 in maemo the goal was "a repo that you could enable on a production device" May 06 18:14:50 ogles tinyness of new HP Veer 4G May 06 18:14:52 ameego: Hey... get extras/surrounds... it's so cool! May 06 18:15:06 friend: surrounds what? May 06 18:15:13 ameego: Um, can't say. May 06 18:15:16 :-p May 06 18:15:20 too new python May 06 18:15:35 ( http://www.palm.com/us/products/phones/veer/index.html?sssdmh=dm13.274648 ) May 06 18:15:37 gabrbedd: nah... kinda like saying "hey, do you use gcc -O3" May 06 18:15:45 meaningless unless you're a dev May 06 18:15:50 MeeGo Apps though.... May 06 18:15:55 that's the beasty May 06 18:16:22 gabrbedd: apps-beta.meego.com at the moment May 06 18:16:52 when an app needs more than meego - that's when the *dev* uses surrounds May 06 18:17:06 so any reusable components go in there May 06 18:17:51 lbt: OK. So the effort /is/ getting a special exception (for now). May 06 18:17:53 :-) May 06 18:18:04 no, not at all May 06 18:18:10 what makes you think that? May 06 18:18:53 lbt: Can I provide my own store that supplies MeeGo Apps... but several of the apps are not (themselves) compliant? May 06 18:18:58 lbt: libmeegotouch seems like a reasonable candidate for Surrounds trial. May 06 18:19:41 I'm pretty sure the answer is "no", because I can't use the MeeGo name apart from compliance. May 06 18:19:57 * gabrbedd would be happy to be wrong, though. May 06 18:20:00 timoph: resubmit - I registered your app May 06 18:20:04 ok May 06 18:20:40 gabrbedd: I'm not using the meego name - we (you and I and all of us in here) just happen to own the DNS :) May 06 18:20:55 Stskeeps: true May 06 18:21:11 gabrbedd: MeeGo Apps apps do not have to be compliant May 06 18:21:25 we will of course support a 'compliant app' area May 06 18:21:54 lbt: Right... but the Community OBS can supply that service because it has a special status within MeeGo. May 06 18:22:09 lbt: As far as I understand, I can't go and do the same thing elsewhere. May 06 18:22:22 lbt: For example, to provide closed-source apps/packages. May 06 18:22:23 so split them into :compliant and :extras or something? May 06 18:23:26 lbt: While I can technically do it elsewhere... it's unclear how to tell your customer that the whole setup is for MeeGo -- because it's not a compliant setup. May 06 18:23:39 gabrbedd: ah... true May 06 18:23:50 btw, with all this qml hype going on what's the status of Qt c++ apps? May 06 18:24:21 timoph, many QML components require C++ components still? May 06 18:24:45 timoph: i don't understand the question. Qt C++ still rocks... May 06 18:24:50 I'm thinking apps that don't use the QML stuff at all May 06 18:25:02 qt-creator doesn't use QML stuff at all May 06 18:25:02 timoph: And QML apps still need the C++ portion to load. May 06 18:25:07 yep May 06 18:25:44 I'm just hoping that there's going to be a decent theming for traditional qwidget based apps May 06 18:25:50 timoph: There is absolutely, positively **no** requirement to use QML, QtQuick, or even Qt in MeeGo May 06 18:26:02 gabrbedd, surely that is limitation of the loader/OS portion for now? May 06 18:26:06 good to know May 06 18:26:22 However, if you're not doing Qt... you're facing an upstream battle. May 06 18:26:31 s/upstream/uphill/ May 06 18:26:31 gabrbedd meant: However, if you're not doing Qt... you're facing an uphill battle. May 06 18:26:39 timoph: heh ... thanks ... try again ... should work May 06 18:26:46 I am doing check_package_built_at_source May 06 18:26:48 ok May 06 18:26:52 which doesn't quite work May 06 18:27:01 a quick modification to the workflow May 06 18:27:04 and you're good to go May 06 18:27:15 timoph: Last I checked, the Maemo theme on handset crashes all my apps. #Crap May 06 18:27:33 timoph: But on tablet things are sane. May 06 18:27:34 I really like this flexibility on the workflow... May 06 18:27:37 Hildon? http://blogs.gnome.org/foundation/2010/10/13/gtkmeego-handset-integration-work-call-for-bids/ May 06 18:28:09 timoph: \o/ May 06 18:28:11 do they face upstream battle? May 06 18:28:26 you have the first app accepted into Testing :) May 06 18:28:35 :) May 06 18:29:03 and the sr message for it was "let's reject this once more" :D May 06 18:29:11 https://build.pub.meego.com/project/monitor?project=MeeGo:1.2:Apps:Testing May 06 18:29:15 really :) May 06 18:29:27 yep May 06 18:30:39 thanks - I may steal that and repackage it as a test pkg May 06 18:31:23 npm: Yes. The current attitude in MeeGo is: "You're not using Qt?? Then why are you here?" May 06 18:31:36 npm: Note that I disagree with that sentiment. May 06 18:31:44 I could do an update for that package soonish. IIRC I have a newer version of it in git May 06 18:32:22 npm: Note that I also use Qt for all my apps... :-p May 06 18:32:23 OK - I'm around all weekend but not tonight May 06 18:32:26 seems like others disagree too http://codex.xiaoka.com/wiki/cordia:start May 06 18:33:00 gabrbedd: I think there's a difference between "MeeGo for vendors" and "MeeGo for hackers" May 06 18:33:36 my discomfort is there's a whole world of stuff that works well, now we have to wait for it to be "imported" into Qt before we can use it? May 06 18:33:37 smoku: ping May 06 18:33:47 hey, how do i update from 1.1 to 1.1.2? May 06 18:33:59 mwichmann: the community OBS is for doing that... phasing May 06 18:34:15 we need core to get on with delivering to device vendors May 06 18:34:31 I don't want them messing about with gtk May 06 18:34:41 or being held back by it not passing tests May 06 18:34:57 mwichmann: I agree... there's even a whole world of stuff that works in plain Qt/Gnome and it's being replaced by "demo apps" in QML May 06 18:35:04 mwichmann: I agree to some extent... but... May 06 18:35:31 I know my viewpoint isn't the one being catered to, so not too fussed May 06 18:35:32 which don't have enough use/users to get the featureset we expect out of the highly used apps May 06 18:35:32 mwichmann: I also value the fact that MeeGo is specializing. Otherwise we're just another Ubuntu or Fedora May 06 18:36:22 oh, I get it; but I also get to have "reactions" to things :) May 06 18:36:28 well it should specialize on the hardware it supports best. but the another ubuntu or fedora would be nice from a developer standpoint May 06 18:36:42 mwichmann: :-) Sorry. May 06 18:36:52 because it means, for example, i don't have to load up mercurial RPM's from fedora because they're not part of meego May 06 18:37:28 npm: I fully disagree. If the goal is to be another Fedora or ubuntu... let's instead go join Fedora and Ubuntu. May 06 18:37:33 you mean bzr, right? oh wait, not those either May 06 18:37:51 or the fact that in order to get my son going with "Hello World!" book in python on meego, i had to install a bunch of missing rpm's in meego, from fedora May 06 18:37:53 so ... how about letting core MeeGo be a baseline for vendors. Then the community can build 'distros' around it ? May 06 18:38:14 and now he's on chapter 20 in meego. May 06 18:38:21 otherwise i'd have had to use windows. May 06 18:39:31 gabrbedd: i don't want another fedora or ubuntu. i want a meego with the uptake and wide availability of packafges of a major distro May 06 18:39:50 or i just forcibly make them compatible with http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Lem May 06 18:40:00 npm: that's what surrounds is May 06 18:40:14 * lbt talks to himself some more May 06 18:40:17 lbt: yep but dunno if there's enough interested people to start building a distro based on MeeGo May 06 18:40:26 timoph: nope .. agreed May 06 18:40:35 lbt -- it's what surrounds will hopefully be once it is populated May 06 18:40:57 npm: What do you get from MeeGo that Fedora|Ubuntu|Debian|SuSe|MePHis|Slackware|DSL don't give you? May 06 18:41:03 npm: yep May 06 18:41:24 and npm, the more we mess about installing alien packages and praying... the less progress we make May 06 18:41:24 a OS that runs nicely on a netbook with SSD? May 06 18:41:29 doing MeeGo + KDE active would be an interesting combination May 06 18:41:44 an OS that clocks half the interrupts per second of fedora 15 May 06 18:41:46 etc May 06 18:41:47 * lbt looks at the Project:KDE area on the c.obs May 06 18:41:56 lbt: yep. noticed that :) May 06 18:42:10 npm: pass me your magic wand when you're done.... May 06 18:42:32 well there's a different magic wand for vendors and hackers May 06 18:42:33 An OS that natively supports Atom CPUs! May 06 18:42:37 i have my hacker magic wand May 06 18:42:39 timoph: and I just asked the cordia guys to setup alongside May 06 18:42:45 cool May 06 18:42:51 npm: and what are you doing with it ? May 06 18:43:10 actually using meego to develop May 06 18:43:19 what? May 06 18:43:23 w/o spending a lot of time compiling up the world May 06 18:44:39 hopefully they'll make ks files available to build their stuff into images. Would be interesting to try those with exopc May 06 18:44:45 npm: RST38h: Fair enough. But IMHO if we're trying to do the same thing as Ubuntu Unity... then what are we doing here? May 06 18:45:22 i don't see those as targetting mobility specifically May 06 18:46:43 npm: Unity is. May 06 18:46:51 however, there's a baseline level of stuff that is basically "GNU Linux" and i just expect it to be there already, just like it is on my fedora desktop May 06 18:47:50 Unity is the successor to "Ubuntu Netbook Remix" and now the default desktop for Ubuntu. Canonical is targetting mobile as the future. May 06 18:48:05 But they have a different goal that MeeGo (as best as I can tell). May 06 18:48:18 s/that/than/ May 06 18:48:18 gabrbedd meant: But they have a different goal than MeeGo (as best as I can tell). May 06 18:48:20 and also, although not applied currently, there are security features in MeeGo that make it more interesting than those OSes May 06 18:48:31 RST38h: umm most OS's support Atom natively... its the abortion that is know as the GMA500 that is messed up May 06 18:48:44 gabrbedd: I though I were the resident doomsayer? May 06 18:49:02 I'm not doomsaying. May 06 18:49:12 I'm just saying that MeeGo has a different goal. May 06 18:49:18 so yeah, how do i update my meego 1.1 netbook to 1.1.2 May 06 18:49:22 gabrbedd: And that is?... May 06 18:49:47 seems like http://www.linaro.org/ has the same goals as meego May 06 18:50:17 Shipping devices and an app store ecosystem. May 06 18:50:38 i'm looking forward to it... May 06 18:50:43 At least, that's what I've always understood MeeGo's goal. May 06 18:50:57 npm: not really May 06 18:51:08 gabrbedd: Nice. Now, reality check: May 06 18:51:24 Stskeeps: why not? May 06 18:51:25 gabrbedd: 1) How many physical Meego devices are on the market? May 06 18:51:35 npm: linaro is advancing ARM development, toolchains, components and does everything from ubuntu to android May 06 18:51:44 npm: they're not an OS in themselves May 06 18:51:55 gabrbedd: 2) How many of these are being bought? May 06 18:52:06 they are going middle ware, says right on their page May 06 18:52:12 seems like it's just a way for ubuntu to get their code into devices May 06 18:52:27 gabrbedd: 3) What makes App Store distribution better than independent distribution? May 06 18:52:35 RST38h: I didn't say that we accomplished the goal. However, it's always been my understanding that the 1.2 release is the one where people start shipping devices. May 06 18:52:51 RST38h: app store == customer trust and billing. May 06 18:52:57 gabrbedd: People do not ship devices. Customers do. May 06 18:53:03 Sorry,manufacturers do May 06 18:53:25 And manufacturers aren't people? May 06 18:53:36 gabrbedd: Plenty of cc processors will do billing for you May 06 18:53:42 lbt, pong May 06 18:53:44 gabrbedd: Acutally, no :) May 06 18:53:52 skynet, eh? May 06 18:54:00 smoku: hi May 06 18:54:01 unless you are manufacturing meego tablets in your basement May 06 18:54:06 was asking in #cordia too May 06 18:54:09 do you want to make cordia a 'project' on the community OBS? May 06 18:54:17 http://wiki.meego.com/OBS/Community_OBS/Project_Areas May 06 18:58:12 so again i ask, how does one update from 1.1 to 1.1.2 May 06 18:58:54 lbt: so what's missing from making the MeeGo "extras" a reality? Are there restrictions on what can be build there (i.e. ffmpeg)? May 06 18:59:01 gandhijee, backup /home, install 1.2, restore /home May 06 18:59:17 gandhijee: 1.1 shipped with the "updates" repository enabled (as far as I know) May 06 18:59:35 gandhijee: So, if you have it installed, you just need to update your packages. May 06 18:59:50 timoph: so Extras is now called Apps May 06 18:59:56 gandhijee: I'm a command line junkie... so I usually do it with zypper: May 06 18:59:59 and it is almost up and running May 06 19:00:07 cool May 06 19:00:08 the only target is MeeGo :) May 06 19:00:09 sudo zypper refresh && sudo zypper up May 06 19:00:16 not MeeGo+Surrounds (yet) May 06 19:00:28 it's a start May 06 19:00:28 importantly ... not MeeGo+Apps either May 06 19:00:33 gandhijee: You can confirm that you have the updates repos installed by doing `zypper repos` May 06 19:00:40 so you can't upload a dependency and build against it May 06 19:00:48 (you could in Extras) May 06 19:00:48 ah May 06 19:00:49 gabrbedd: one sec i will check May 06 19:00:54 yeah May 06 19:01:13 so Surrounds needs a couple of things ... I like Stskeeps' idea May 06 19:01:27 RST38h: Look, whether MeeGo's goals are a failure or not... those are the goals that I came for. May 06 19:01:54 What are those goals again? May 06 19:01:57 RST38h: Hopefully, there will be some good surprises during/after the conference. But I just don't know. May 06 19:02:04 alterego: ^^ May 06 19:02:05 gabrbedd: so if the update repo's are available., it automatically pushes up to 1.1.4? May 06 19:02:16 I came here because MeeGo was the only option after Maemo May 06 19:02:23 gandhijee: Yeah... whatever the latest 1.1.x is. May 06 19:02:46 gabrbedd: is there a way to roll back to the 1.1.2 version? May 06 19:03:02 gabrbedd:I.e. these are your personal wishes, not the actual goals pursued by main Meego endorsers? May 06 19:03:09 gandhijee: Probably not. May 06 19:03:10 lbt: where would packages i normally get from RPMFusion go in extras: gstreamer-plugins-bad-nonfree-0.10.18-1.fc13.i686 gstreamer-plugins-bad-free-0.10.20-3.fc14.i686 gstreamer-plugins-bad-0.10.20-3.fc14.1.i686 gstreamer-plugins-ugly-0.10.16-2.fc14.i686 ... May 06 19:03:24 ok May 06 19:03:28 RST38h: And /those/ goals are?? May 06 19:04:01 awsome my meego can't apparently apply patches May 06 19:04:04 Also remember, that you shouldn't believe everything "they" tell you ;) May 06 19:04:29 npm: I am not yet aware of any restrictions on the OBS ... I mumble about it from time to time May 06 19:04:44 Nokia, Intel, whoever, doesn't matter what they say, most of the time their course veers and moves and they don't tell us. May 06 19:04:51 feel free to attract the attention of lawyers if you think that's a good idea May 06 19:04:56 :) May 06 19:05:03 Develop things behind closed doors and dump rather large decisions on us. May 06 19:05:05 But still .. May 06 19:05:18 lbt, in that case, build a scraper to grab all SRPMs from RPMFUsion and put them on OBS May 06 19:05:20 :-) May 06 19:05:35 npm: read my blog to explain why I'll reject that May 06 19:05:41 (for Surrounds) May 06 19:05:46 gabrbedd: Dunno, google? May 06 19:06:00 (you of course may follow any futile course you like ;) ) May 06 19:06:14 npm: the reason is .... May 06 19:06:15 i already have enough of those May 06 19:06:22 porting vs maintaining May 06 19:06:40 ah, well those wouldn't be "ported" until they got enough votes that they actually work May 06 19:06:45 one is the grab and chuck approach ... zigbee is doing that May 06 19:06:53 it's ... not helpful IMHO May 06 19:07:11 the other is to maintain ... harder work, less glory May 06 19:07:19 OTOH May 06 19:07:41 *IF* we can find another distro that we can partner with May 06 19:07:55 rpm based, maintains pkgs, security tracking etc May 06 19:08:00 let RPMFusion maintain. we just maintain the translation table from one oS to the other May 06 19:08:03 uses OBS ? :) May 06 19:08:19 then maybe we can delegate maintaining to them May 06 19:08:41 npm: yes... but we need to do it in a managed way .... it should be a partnership May 06 19:09:00 RST38h: So you give up. May 06 19:09:02 then we can fast-track the porting May 06 19:09:03 ? May 06 19:09:07 agree. since MeeGo is RPM based, it would be cool for RPMFusion to get support from both fedora and meego May 06 19:09:12 providing certain rules are followed May 06 19:09:28 I personally favour openSuse ... for obvious reasons May 06 19:09:32 but RPMFusion uses whatever fedora uses and not OBS May 06 19:09:42 npm, koji? May 06 19:09:46 although I feel they are not at the same level as fedora May 06 19:09:49 lbt, "obvious reasons"? May 06 19:09:59 OBS is one May 06 19:10:03 zypper May 06 19:10:11 other shared tools and processes May 06 19:10:21 they have more to gain than fedora May 06 19:10:23 lbt: they actually share a lot of people/control... RPMFusion is really just fedora's legal out May 06 19:10:32 I was wondering, what makes OBS better than Koji? May 06 19:10:38 we use it May 06 19:10:42 :) May 06 19:11:07 nothing is better than anything else.... but the cost of change is relevant May 06 19:11:35 feel free to suggest to Anas that MeeGo moves to Koji ... :D May 06 19:12:07 why would I want to do that? May 06 19:12:14 OBS works fine for MeeGo, doesn't it? May 06 19:12:15 entertain the rest of us? May 06 19:12:56 Heh May 06 19:13:09 hey, it's friday! May 06 19:13:15 I want tracker back May 06 19:13:20 final 1.2 RC not available yet? May 06 19:13:25 * RST38h gives alterego some tracker May 06 19:13:27 alterego: c.obs ? May 06 19:13:35 well the real question is does OBS support some of the useful parts of koji, like voting on updates before promoting, etc. May 06 19:13:47 yes May 06 19:13:54 if you link it with BOSS May 06 19:14:14 npm: obs can be augmented quite easily, the front end is a rails app :) May 06 19:14:42 for some value of easily May 06 19:14:50 actually I'm pretty sure that OBS+BOSS is more flexible than most (any) similar build systems May 06 19:15:06 it appears quite full featured and next-generation May 06 19:15:14 Heh May 06 19:15:45 Meh, new build systems are invented daily :P May 06 19:16:02 alterego: faster than new audio frameworks! May 06 19:16:12 Almost certainly May 06 19:16:29 what new audio frameworks have been introduced? May 06 19:16:51 npm: Phonon May 06 19:16:56 old May 06 19:16:58 ? May 06 19:17:08 already using it.... May 06 19:17:59 Don't forget pulseaudio May 06 19:18:24 npm: http://yokozar.org/blog/content/linuxaudio.png May 06 19:18:36 npm: here, you can throw up now. May 06 19:18:36 i don't : i run pasuspender early and often May 06 19:19:08 RST38h, that situation has been getting better since october 2008 May 06 19:19:21 Somebody also told me about "RoarAudio" recently. May 06 19:20:03 will the chrome browser in meego not let you browse https pages or something? it keeps saying meego's HTTPS cert is not valid May 06 19:20:07 Venemo: YOu mean, since the invented PA and Phonon? :) May 06 19:20:12 gabrbedd: almost as complicated as what we have http://code.google.com/p/ytd-meego/wiki/CitizenJournalismWithYoutubeDirectForMeego#N900_Platform_and_Hardware_Overview May 06 19:20:52 Venemo: I agree, it is getting better. You can draw a big X through a lot of those today. May 06 19:21:07 gandhijee: Double check the clock on your system. May 06 19:21:48 gandhijee: Usually when that happens to me it's because my time/date is grossly wrong. May 06 19:22:41 gabrbedd: ok thanks. May 06 19:23:59 gandhijee: also, the meego cert has some wonkiness in qt webkit browsers? http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2011-May/482965.html May 06 19:29:11 oh awesome May 06 19:30:57 does some vendor create a navigation system for meego? May 06 19:37:03 i want to try build an o/s car pc system, meego seems like the best solution for UI. But i don't know, how to mix it with navigation smoothly May 06 19:40:19 hell: You should probably ask on meego-ivi@ I don't think there's many IVI folks doing IRC. May 06 19:40:46 gabrbedd, that is because you should not IRC whilst driving. May 06 19:41:17 lcuk: That's funny. Reminds me of time th May 06 19:41:19 i thought, that navigation is not only ivi, all smartphones will do it May 06 19:41:23 * gabrbedd has quit (Crash!) May 06 19:41:40 lcuk: ) May 06 19:41:43 will? May 06 19:42:17 thiago_home: all new devices have gps, even old n810) May 06 19:43:15 having GPS is not the same as navigation program May 06 19:43:31 hell: you said "i want to try build an o/s car pc system" -- so you should probably ask the guys who actually do that... since they can point you in the right direction. May 06 19:43:34 I remember a mapping/routing program working on the amiga May 06 19:44:06 it showed a map you gave start and end locations then it did the calculation of routes visually May 06 19:44:09 was great to see May 06 19:45:04 gabrbedd: i will, in future, of course. Asked only for info. May 06 19:45:19 Amiga had an OCR-based Cut&Paste May 06 19:46:09 After THAT, Amiga having mapping software nolonger sounds unnatural May 06 20:19:57 are regular end users of end products supposed to actively use the MeeGo forums? May 06 20:20:26 mikhas, yes May 06 20:21:15 then we should try to get a subforum or the like for the VKB there May 06 20:21:37 or at least a dedicated thread May 06 20:21:45 I cannot spend too much time hunting down VKB posts there May 06 20:22:02 which process would I have to follow this time? May 06 20:22:06 is that because of multiple keywords? May 06 20:22:28 well, it seems I dont know how to check for new stuff/get notified? May 06 20:22:32 well if you have a few threads already May 06 20:22:40 can you put links May 06 20:22:52 for the forum threads May 06 20:22:53 is there a meego-tv repository somewhere? May 06 20:23:18 or, is there a way for me to checkout meego sources to have a try? May 06 20:23:25 posting in one gets you subscribed to it May 06 20:23:38 if there is a thread you are not posting in, but want to know when new posts happen May 06 20:23:45 you can click "thread tools" menu at the top May 06 20:23:50 can I "close" threads? May 06 20:23:53 and then click Subscribe to this thread May 06 20:24:22 I think so, I have never been a moderator May 06 20:24:27 so dont know how May 06 20:26:36 * lcuk cheers jake up with an easy printout of a train :) May 06 21:46:24 CosmoHill, I thought you would be out drinking this evening May 06 21:51:47 got back from a friends May 06 21:51:50 playing portal 1 May 06 21:54:33 That's so 2007. May 06 21:55:49 I wish people would stop assuming that I do things in logical orders May 06 21:57:01 CosmoHill, for even more fun, try playing original half life May 06 21:57:48 we got portal 2 for PS3 but I've never played portal 1 May 06 21:58:01 I'm not really into games that much May 06 21:58:12 * gabrbedd buys new music from 1990 May 06 21:58:20 portal is great May 06 21:58:38 gabrbedd, good music is ageless May 06 21:58:50 lcuk: Well, it's new to me! :-) May 06 22:04:17 gabrbedd, I tried to put a vinyl single into my CD player and it didn't work properly :P May 06 22:06:25 lcuk: its the wrong speed, maybe the CD player doesnt support 45x ? May 06 22:06:32 lcuk: Really?? Hrm. Did it play too fast? May 06 22:06:43 berndhs: Darn it! You beat me! May 06 22:07:54 lol May 06 22:20:16 gabrbedd: http://www.cyberstep.com/kdj/ May 06 22:25:13 actually this is the link: http://www.cyberstep.com/kdj/about/features.html -- meego based May 06 23:06:21 npm: Yeah, I talked to those guys when I saw them at NAMM in January. Nice guys. May 06 23:07:25 npm: Their build is based on the IVI UX, and they've written a little DAW application that's kind of their main product. May 06 23:11:01 gabrbedd, KLF still sells for premium prices around here ... May 06 23:11:48 mikhas, that is because the KLF are justified and ancient May 06 23:11:56 :-D May 06 23:12:12 mikhas: The band? May 06 23:12:38 * lcuk has the white room on cd somewhere May 06 23:14:27 hee hee... I've never heard of them before.... May 06 23:14:42 * gabrbedd learned to play guitar so he wouldn't have to dance.... or talk to people. May 06 23:15:56 Ancients of moo moo May 06 23:16:30 furthermore known as the Jams May 06 23:18:28 I'll add that to my listening list. :-) May 06 23:20:29 I bought a second hand CD last night, looked at the release date of the album - it was 26 years old. May 06 23:29:12 gabrbedd, you have your apps on obs don't you? May 06 23:34:22 lcuk: No. I've been too busy fighting window manager bugs to do much community contribution. May 06 23:34:38 which bugs? May 06 23:35:15 lcuk: Also, some of our stuff has to be configured different from "community" stuff. May 06 23:35:17 and remind me, whats your app? May 06 23:36:44 bug 17002 and bug 17170 have been eating my lunch for a long time. May 06 23:36:47 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17002 maj, Undecided, ---, rusty.lynch, NEW, meego-ux-daemon can't manage apps that don't set _NET_WM_PID May 06 23:36:49 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17170 maj, Undecided, ---, jketreno, NEW, mcompositor window restacking renders Xlib-style menus useless May 06 23:37:10 Before that, I had a really ugly bug that was either in Qt or the DJ app Mixxx where the OpenGL widget wouldn't render. May 06 23:37:25 I still don't know who's fault. I found a workaround, packaged it, and moved on. May 06 23:37:34 seems reasonable May 06 23:37:50 Then there's hardware adaptation issues... like backlight controls and whatnot. May 06 23:38:17 ...etc. May 06 23:38:50 I dunno how things look on DE, but I'm only just starting to see light at the end of the tunnel, and MeeGoConf is, what, 17 days away? May 06 23:39:00 so is meego the principle platform you test/build app towards? May 06 23:39:16 or are these bugs pretty much the same on any OS where you test them? May 06 23:39:23 lcuk: We're providing a custom version of MeeGo on a device. May 06 23:39:44 lcuk: But we also provide several important audio apps that aren't "MeeGo Compliant Apps" May 06 23:40:03 lcuk: No, these are specific to MeeGo's window managers. May 06 23:40:18 On a normal window manager, I don't have to deal with those bugs. May 06 23:40:42 so are these large format devices you are building towards (I see you mention -de) May 06 23:41:08 E.g. mcompositor and meego-ux-daemon make a lot of assumptions about windows that are true for typical Qt apps, but not X11 apps. May 06 23:41:37 lcuk: I meantioned DE so that you could say, "Yeah, It's getting really stable" or "Hrm, it's still rough." May 06 23:41:47 gabrbedd, historically that is the case even for maemo - handling hildon apps was well supported but native x11 was not so much May 06 23:42:19 hah, well I was thinking it looked and felt good but this mornings build regressed somewhat with input lag May 06 23:42:30 lcuk: This is what we're going to ship http://indamixx.com/indamixx2-tablet.html May 06 23:43:21 :D May 06 23:43:32 lcuk: The problem with those bugs is that if I don't fix them they probably won't be fixed. May 06 23:44:01 but by the same tune, those bugs will effect people utilising the same meego core components for other uses May 06 23:44:04 lcuk: Whereas if it was a Qt-related bug, someone else would be assigned and I can go about my business with the hardware adaptation. May 06 23:44:31 lcuk: Yes... I don't mind fixing other people's bugs. Really. I do dig it. May 06 23:44:44 lcuk: But I'd like a /little/ time to work on my own stuff. :-) May 06 23:45:01 ok, so you are starting from the handset UX and adapting from there? May 06 23:45:11 * lcuk hears that May 06 23:45:23 Anyway, I'm just bitching. :-) I'm stressed out leading up to the conference. May 06 23:46:02 understandably so, do the bugs manifest themselves only with your full app running, or do you have small testcases already in place May 06 23:46:04 lcuk: That was the original plan. But when the Tablet UX came out and all the motion (*cough*Intel resources*cough*) was in that direction, we went Tablet. May 06 23:46:49 ok, but even with that, there is still nobody poking at the specific bugs you are encountering for what I guess is a stable mature codebase May 06 23:46:54 And I'm liking some of the other features in Tablet. But it happened just when Handset was getting stable, so it was a little bit of a step back. May 06 23:46:55 as you say it runs happily on other WMs May 06 23:47:26 lcuk: Well, I only just recently isolated them and filed the bugs. May 06 23:48:14 And I think for some of them, it's easier to write code and patches than generate a test case. In the case of Mixxx, I couldn't make a test case. May 06 23:48:42 yes understood, since they are filed as you say only last few days and it is now weekend, it would be good to try and get them triaged/prioritised before and during next weeks meetings May 06 23:48:53 gabrbedd, yes I know May 06 23:49:03 it was just with the kind of bugs they are May 06 23:49:30 So, is there something I can do to influence the triage process? May 06 23:49:58 (One advantage to having a customized MeeGo is that I can accept my own patches to different packages :-)) May 06 23:50:31 gabrbedd, in part you are doing it now :) explaining the problem and advertising the bugs in a room of 400 people should start some folks off May 06 23:50:38 heh May 06 23:50:52 lcuk: :-) May 06 23:51:03 and gabrbedd check the meetings schedule http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Meeting_IRC_Schedule May 06 23:51:27 talk to people about the bugs where possible and see who might be able to do pre-verification May 06 23:52:11 if you are not going to be awake at the time of the meetings (I don't know where you are) then send a mail to the ML or post on the forum perhaps May 06 23:53:01 gabrbedd, have you already done the hardware sourcing process for these devices or are you using standard kit for now whilst handling that aspect? May 06 23:53:42 Yeah, those are pretty late. I'll probably make those meetings this week, though. May 06 23:54:05 We've already decided on the device. May 06 23:54:11 good stuff May 06 23:55:16 It actually looks like a big iPhone. May 06 23:55:21 yeah May 06 23:55:31 Big button on the right (meta key) May 06 23:55:32 do you boot into the tablet ux then let the user load the app May 06 23:55:48 or directly into the mixer May 06 23:55:48 Two buttons on the left that I'm config'ing to window switcher buttons. May 06 23:56:01 Directly to tablet ux. May 06 23:57:10 gabrbedd, so historically have you done anything similar to this before? (hardware platform with your software) May 06 23:57:30 The Indamixx brand is the tablet + os + apps. One of the apps is called "Mixxx", and it's an important app. So, people tend to get the two confused. May 06 23:57:55 Mixxx is an open source project done at mixxx.org May 06 23:58:25 * lcuk nods May 06 23:58:46 lcuk: Yes, we've done http://backstage.musiciansfriend.com/indamixx.4173.brand May 06 23:58:46 gabrbedd, so you do your mixing on the train? :D May 06 23:59:11 :-) May 06 23:59:29 sweet stuff May 06 23:59:34 Those are based on ubuntu, and have mostly the same apps. May 07 00:00:00 how well does mixx handle the touch ui? May 07 00:00:05 We switch to MeeGo because it's about mobile, and touch, and was backed by intel and nokia May 07 00:00:06 mixxx* May 07 00:00:38 That's been the catch... the apps have to be rewritten for touch :-/ May 07 00:00:50 So we get single-touch left-clicks for free... May 07 00:01:08 apps always have to be rewritten at some point. May 07 00:01:12 I'm still working on what to do about right-clicks. (Sev. of our apps use right-clicks) May 07 00:01:33 Upstream Mixxx is working on QML skins... but they're not ready for prime time. May 07 00:01:48 does the capacitive senstivity cause any UI issues (size of hit points etc) May 07 00:02:07 I think I have to hack meego-ux-daemon or mcompositor to come up with a right-click gesture. May 07 00:02:13 Or do something clever in the apps. May 07 00:02:30 No... since the apps don't declare that they want touch -- they're just getting mouse events. May 07 00:02:48 But even so... our touchscreen doesn't give pressure or diameter May 07 00:02:49 if the device is true multitouch, you could have a Caps button :) May 07 00:02:58 Caps? May 07 00:03:09 on the keyboard, when you want capital letters May 07 00:03:12 device is dual-touch. May 07 00:03:14 in the corner ;) May 07 00:03:24 Ah, it's a tablet. No keyboard. May 07 00:03:28 what where? May 07 00:03:31 I know May 07 00:03:31 * gabrbedd grumbles about tablets May 07 00:03:41 * gabrbedd loves that lenovo doo-hickey May 07 00:03:44 * mikhas did not get multitouch to work on MeeGo Tablet UX May 07 00:03:47 gabrbedd, a caps UI button which you use with one finger May 07 00:03:58 then the other finger press is a right click May 07 00:04:04 it did work on the ideapad half a year ago though ... May 07 00:04:23 lcuk: I'm thinking about touching, and then tapping the other finger. When you release it's a right-click. May 07 00:04:24 multitouch on my ideapad draws hair on people May 07 00:04:48 mikhas: works for me on the lenovo (multitouch) May 07 00:04:49 mikhas: What device/UX are you working with? May 07 00:05:05 wetab/tablet May 07 00:05:11 Right now, the Lenovo works out of the box with MT. May 07 00:05:15 I know May 07 00:05:36 but uses netbook UX May 07 00:05:51 why the heck does MT work on netbook UX but not tablet UX? May 07 00:06:12 mikhas, hardware abstraction May 07 00:06:15 mikhas: What is your touch device? May 07 00:06:19 or whatever it is called May 07 00:06:22 it seems that the mtev driver is there May 07 00:06:28 mikhas: If the kernel supports MT for your device, it's not enough. May 07 00:06:33 wetab has a Galaxy whatever thingy May 07 00:06:48 mikhas: you have to have an xorg.conf.d file that tells it to use mtev May 07 00:06:57 erm... tells mtev to manage it. May 07 00:07:30 mikhas: no, I meant that multitouch on the tablet UX works on the lenovo for me May 07 00:07:35 I've had one eGalax/MosArt that I got to do MT (I think). May 07 00:07:41 so the problem is not in the UX, but in the hardware adaptation May 07 00:07:57 mikhas: What woot says. May 07 00:08:04 :-) May 07 00:08:05 w00t_, thanks "adaption" May 07 00:08:25 "adaptation" says to me "custom kernels and crap" May 07 00:08:44 But chances are, he just needs to add a file at /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d May 07 00:08:50 oki May 07 00:08:52 That's what makes it work with the Lenovo May 07 00:09:08 It's called something like 60-cando-mtev.conf May 07 00:10:40 gabrbedd, lbt was talking about meego vendor processes, have you spoken to him about any of your stuff with him? May 07 00:11:04 mikehas: The trick is to get the device string right. For that, check your xorg lag. May 07 00:12:01 lcuk: yeah, a little bit. I'm sticking with this process for now... and will maybe change mid-summer. May 07 00:12:33 sure thing, just wondered because you are obviously some way along a similar track May 07 00:14:23 lcuk: Yeah, I realized the value of a private OBS when I had to go through and rebuild a bunch of large packages because they changed the 'Provides' on libxml2 :-) May 07 00:14:59 What they did was the Right Thing... but I was thinking... "Oh. Hrpm. Build server." May 07 00:15:30 yes May 07 00:16:28 * gabrbedd walks away May 07 00:17:17 gabrbedd, gnite and hope your bugs get prioritised \o May 07 00:24:11 lcuk: Thank you *very* much for your advice. May 07 00:24:20 lcuk: Good night. May 07 00:24:54 gabrbedd, likewise, is good to see a real meego based product :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat May 07 02:59:58 2011