**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat May 28 02:59:57 2011
May 28 03:22:37 <dreamer> hi all, trying to follow this guide: https://meego.com/devices/handset/installing-meego-nokia-n900 when booting the kernel with the flasher I see: VFS: cannot open root device "mmcblk0p1" or unknown-block(179,1)
May 28 03:23:16 <dreamer> then followed with: Please append a correct "root=" boot option;
May 28 05:19:30 <Myrtti> dreamer: I'd redo the dd and/or check the md5sum of the downloaded bz2 file
May 28 08:01:34 <doi2d> hery
May 28 08:03:11 <doi2d> fmo3
May 28 09:05:10 <Jarock> hello
May 28 09:06:44 <Jarock> ich habe eine frage. Muss ich das headset oder das tablet image benutzen für das nokia n900.
May 28 09:06:48 <Jarock> fc
May 28 09:06:57 <Jarock> I have a question. Do I need the headset or use the tablet image of the Nokia N900.
May 28 09:12:41 <iekku> Jarock, there's N900 DE image
May 28 09:13:07 <iekku> Jarock, please find out more: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/DeveloperEdition
May 28 09:15:39 <Jarock> Is that the right image for nokia n900 ?
May 28 09:31:36 <iekku> Jarock, it should be
May 28 09:32:36 <Jarock> ok thanks many times I'll try my luck with flash
May 28 09:33:02 <iekku> Jarock, i recommend to run image from sd card
May 28 09:33:07 <iekku> works nice
May 28 09:34:07 <lardman> morning
May 28 09:34:25 <Jarock> no, I'll do it the EMMC ^^
May 28 09:40:33 <delac> trying to install targets to Meego SDK 1.2 with mad-admin, but the "mad-admin list" gives me only old targets like meego-netbook-ia32-1.1.2 and meego-netbook-ia32-trunk which apparently refers to meego-netbook-ia32-1.1.99. Any thoughts?
May 28 09:44:23 <Anteli> heyy
May 28 09:52:52 <delac> I think the problem might be because the madde-config packages are not up to date.
May 28 09:53:08 <delac> Does anyone know what is the most current repo for sdk 1.2?
May 28 09:53:28 <delac> Has anyone installed sdk 1.2 succesfully?
May 28 10:00:20 <delac> Can anyone tell me where the targets are located? In the Internet, that is. Where are they downloaded from?
May 28 10:02:38 * bilboed wonders when videos of meego conf will be put online
May 28 10:07:54 <pupnikafk> and TSA pics of the attendees
May 28 10:30:42 <thiago> bilboed: soon, probably this week
May 28 10:59:17 <thiago> Jaffa: nice blog
May 28 11:00:42 <Jaffa> thiago: thanks. Seems a shame that the hard work of everyone in MeeGo wasn't recognised
May 28 11:01:30 <iekku> what blog, where, who?
May 28 11:02:06 <chouchoune> iekku: I guess the one available from Meego Aggregator ?
May 28 11:02:49 <Jaffa> iekku: http://is.gd/abI9K4
May 28 11:03:00 <iekku> Jaffa, thanks
May 28 11:03:19 <thiago> Jaffa: just one thing: the LF people do recognise Android as a threat
May 28 11:03:42 <thiago> it's Linux, which means they'll help it, but it's not exactly following the ideals of open source
May 28 11:04:30 <Jaffa> thiago: Perhaps. They've sponsored recent Android confs, so they're conflicted at best.
May 28 11:05:02 <iekku> Jaffa, nice one!
May 28 11:05:04 <Jaffa> Even Intel, with all their effort, isn't dependent on MeeGo succeeding the same way Nokia was pre-Elop
May 28 11:08:18 <Jaffa> Not much can be done about that in the short term, unless the Harmattan device convinces other vendors (let alone Nokia) that mass-market consumer devices can be successfully built on MeeGo
May 28 11:09:44 <thiago> nokia won't change its mind
May 28 11:09:49 <mihero> doubt harmattan will do that
May 28 11:10:22 <thiago> harmattan is good, but not that good
May 28 11:10:24 <mihero> i think the cinvincing will have to come from tablet or ivi markets
May 28 11:10:33 <mihero> convincing
May 28 11:10:41 <Jaffa> thiago: Indeed
May 28 11:11:46 <lardman> thiago: will Nokia re-evaluate eventually though?
May 28 11:11:50 <Jaffa> mihero: Tablets haven't been successful for anyone but Apple. Samsung have got close with Android but the Honeycomb reviews are mixed at best. MeeGo's tablet efforts (either stock or WeTab) have an almost insurmountable challenge
May 28 11:11:59 <lardman> Jaffa: to echo the previous comments, nice blog post
May 28 11:12:06 <thiago> lardman: that is not my place to say
May 28 11:12:38 <lardman> thiago: just as a general point though? I would assume that the M$ thing will run for a few years and then some sort of review would occur
May 28 11:12:40 <Jaffa> lardman: Maybe eventually, if WP7 doesn't go as expected. But I'd guess there's a small window...
May 28 11:13:42 <Jaffa> lardman: Thanks
May 28 11:14:10 <mihero> they have to re-evaluate every now and then but it could also be something else then meego they choose if wp7 fails
May 28 11:14:24 <lardman> mihero: sure
May 28 11:14:50 <lardman> thiago: that's not a very optimistic comment about Harmattan ;)
May 28 11:15:01 <lardman> shouldn't you be raving about it? :)
May 28 11:16:06 <thiago> that it's good but not that good?
May 28 11:16:37 <lardman> yeah :)
May 28 11:16:43 <lardman> I'm only kidding, don't worry
May 28 11:17:22 <mihero> it's not a meego that's why it is not that good:)
May 28 11:18:22 <thiago> I'd have been more enthousiastic if this device had been released when it was meant to, last year
May 28 11:18:35 <thiago> or even during the conf this week
May 28 11:19:35 <mihero> well, releasing it last year may have changed lots of things
May 28 11:21:56 <lardman> well I would agree with those sentiments as an outsider who has been left without anything in particular to develop for
May 28 11:22:04 <thiago> I've been using it as my primary device in the office for over 6 months now
May 28 11:22:14 <thiago> 9 months actually
May 28 11:22:15 <lcuk3> thiago, using what?
May 28 11:22:29 <thiago> the harmattan-based device
May 28 11:23:15 * lardman is looking forward to seeing it, feels a bit like Christmas :)
May 28 11:23:24 <lcuk> thiago oh cool
May 28 11:23:56 * lcuk has been carrying around a plastic phone in outside coat pocket for about the last 12 months too
May 28 11:24:05 <lcuk> it has a great little hoop game on it
May 28 11:24:13 <lcuk> I won it from the Collabora hogroast
May 28 11:24:26 <lcuk> the game is addictive
May 28 11:46:50 * SpeedEvil mugs thiago.
May 28 11:47:02 * SpeedEvil wonders if there is anyone else he can bribe with cocoa.
May 28 11:50:49 <thiago> you'll get one of them soon
May 28 11:52:37 <SpeedEvil> Been here with waiting for devices before - openmoko.
May 28 11:53:02 <SpeedEvil> Though in this case I have doubt that the second will sell much better than the first.
May 28 11:53:20 <Jaffa> Think this will be orders of magnitude shinier than Openmoko
May 28 11:53:40 <Jaffa> SpeedEvil: Assuming there are two, and the first is "sold"
May 28 11:55:10 <SpeedEvil> Jaffa: Sure.
May 28 11:55:18 <lardman> SpeedEvil: hey I was waiting for a Pandora before the N900 release and would have still been waiting when N900 production stopped (or near enough) had I not cancelled
May 28 11:55:23 <SpeedEvil> Jaffa: But I have doubts it'll sell lots better than the n900 I meant.
May 28 11:55:36 <lardman> SpeedEvil: Do we care how well it sells?
May 28 11:55:39 <SpeedEvil> Small scale production i _hard_
May 28 11:55:43 <SpeedEvil> lardman: yes.
May 28 11:55:57 <lardman> I'd quite like to go back to a close knit bunch of devs, less noise on TMO and all that :)
May 28 11:55:58 <SpeedEvil> lardman: If by some freak it sold oodles, there might be reconsideration.
May 28 11:56:09 <lardman> yeah I guess there is that
May 28 11:56:20 <SpeedEvil> OTOH - that'd depress the market for any friendly startups - who knows.
May 28 11:56:38 <SpeedEvil> And well - devs follow bums on seats.
May 28 11:56:53 <SpeedEvil> Few people develop for platforms with 'no' users.
May 28 11:56:57 <lardman> open source devs follow cool hw and sw
May 28 11:57:01 <SpeedEvil> And code rots.
May 28 11:57:57 <lardman> I wonder if the location framework will be extensible this time
May 28 11:58:10 <Jaffa> lardman: I'd like to have some big names like Spotify et al see Harmattan as a viable platform
May 28 11:58:12 <lardman> or even whether it will need to be
May 28 11:58:26 <SpeedEvil> Indeed.
May 28 11:58:32 <lardman> Jaffa: yeah good point, I suppose some sw is going to be closed source no matter what
May 28 11:58:34 <SpeedEvil> Spotify, Angry Birds, ...
May 28 11:58:40 <lardman> Flash... ;)
May 28 11:59:04 <SpeedEvil> In many ways the depressing part of the meego conference was the increasing importance of hardware DRM pipelines, which the CPU can't touch.
May 28 11:59:23 <SpeedEvil> And the requirement by content providers that these be used.
May 28 11:59:33 <lcuk> is meego just another meetoo distro with same goals and ideals as other devices?
May 28 11:59:33 <lardman> is that bad though? It means the rest of the system can be played with and still DRM stuff will work
May 28 11:59:59 <lcuk> or is it the cutting edge kick ass set of devices which cater and nurture new use cases?
May 28 12:00:01 <lardman> lcuk: yes, to be used on devices fundamentally
May 28 12:00:16 <SpeedEvil> lardman: It's good from that perspective.
May 28 12:00:19 <lardman> lcuk: needs to be both I would say
May 28 12:00:22 <Jaffa> lardman: Indeed, but presumably makes h/w more complicated; and further differentiate Harmattan from MeeGo
May 28 12:00:38 <lcuk> take the ocean/yacht ux use
May 28 12:00:49 <lcuk> most of the things discussed are less important
May 28 12:00:50 <lardman> Jaffa: but this will be necessary on any real product, so c'est la vie
May 28 12:01:08 <lcuk> because internet is frustratingly slow and different needs arise
May 28 12:01:42 <lcuk> mind you, according to timeless yesterday, even with good internet there are frustrations with the normal use cases
May 28 12:01:45 <SpeedEvil> lardman: it's bad from the perspective that copyright holders are increasingly trying to extinguish fair-use clauses from copyright law by end-runs around it. This - plus the eventual migration of content fingerprinting and watermarking into that DRM pipeline, so you can only play the content if the device is approved, ...
May 28 12:01:57 <Jaffa> lcuk: Most ppl here are here to scratch their own itches. Having Angry Birds on the yacht is cool, but if the h/w and OS of the devices *I* use don't meet my use-cases why would I care?
May 28 12:01:57 <SpeedEvil> And you can only play approved media.
May 28 12:02:02 <lardman> lcuk: there will still be a need for someone to develop software, so that is important and that will be helped by large exposure in whatever form
May 28 12:02:47 <lcuk> lardman, indeed we do
May 28 12:02:48 <lardman> SpeedEvil: sure that is a problem, but if we assume there will be DRM and that we might want to listen/view some DRM content, separating out the pipeline makes sense
May 28 12:02:57 <lcuk> I had a rant in #meegoconf yesterday
May 28 12:03:02 <lardman> SpeedEvil: the alternative is the device is locked down
May 28 12:03:12 <lcuk> or somewhere, hmm
May 28 12:03:50 <lcuk> Jaffa, which device current meets your use case?
May 28 12:03:51 <lardman> lcuk: equally one will get a snowball effect, more devices -> more companies, and round you go
May 28 12:03:59 <Jaffa> lcuk: N900, mostly
May 28 12:04:04 <lcuk> mostly
May 28 12:04:07 <lcuk> what is missing?
May 28 12:04:09 <SpeedEvil> lardman: In the long term, I'm worried that it will simply be impossible to play most meduia on a rooted device - even if you have the hardware pipeline, because the authors have not approved it.
May 28 12:04:24 <lardman> lcuk: better sw, more modern hw, larger screen
May 28 12:04:38 <Jaffa> lcuk: Battery life, performance, commercial success & support
May 28 12:04:48 <lcuk> playing devils advocate: the galaxy tab you have does that?
May 28 12:05:06 <lardman> SpeedEvil: I understand the worry, but surely a separate hw pipeline gives us more chance of being able to still play DRM stuff on a rooted device, not less
May 28 12:05:32 <lardman> lcuk: me? No I bought that as a project, I don't use it much other than ebook reading and some Meego hacking
May 28 12:06:04 <lcuk> lardman, I was answering Jaffa too
May 28 12:06:11 <lardman> lcuk: though I may install Ubuntu on it and use it for meeting presentations of data - using e.g. Octave and gnuplot (as my day-to-day is MATLAB)
May 28 12:06:32 <lardman> re Tab, the browser works well, the email client works well, the calendar works well
May 28 12:06:36 <lardman> and maps too
May 28 12:06:42 <lardman> certainly far better than the N900
May 28 12:06:44 <SpeedEvil> lardman: Assuming rational content providers. And I'm not so much worried about this generation of device, or the next. But when the DRM pipeline gets fingerprinting, so you can only play approved content.
May 28 12:06:44 <lcuk> lardman, and it can setup a wifi hotspot easily
May 28 12:06:46 <lardman> on all those counts
May 28 12:06:50 <lcuk> it does have nice integration
May 28 12:07:13 <lardman> lcuk: nice integration of what exactly? No idea about wifi hotspot, not of interest to me really
May 28 12:07:37 <lardman> SpeedEvil: well then we'll need to strip the DRM on our main computers first ;)
May 28 12:07:57 <dreamer> Myrtti: hmm, since I no longer have the bz2 I'll try the dd again
May 28 12:08:52 <lardman> lcuk: big issue with the Tab is that the screen is large, which means if you use it too much the battery dies :) but large screen is also the main advantage of the device
May 28 12:09:01 <lardman> catch 22
May 28 12:10:18 <SpeedEvil> I have posted - ages back - about partial screen illumination on openmoko.
May 28 12:10:37 <lardman> SpeedEvil: yes I seem to remember reading something about that
May 28 12:10:51 <SpeedEvil> Which helps somewhat in principle - but there is stil a fairly large slice of power needed to keep the display refreshed.
May 28 12:11:13 <lcuk> lardman, lol
May 28 12:11:17 <lardman> yeah, it's not ideal for ebook reading (pdfs mainly) but it is colour
May 28 12:11:22 <lcuk> lower brightness, use high contrast
May 28 12:11:33 <lardman> lcuk: the Tab is a different class of device though
May 28 12:11:40 <SpeedEvil> Does the screen transflect at all?
May 28 12:11:43 <lcuk> that is how I extend battery life on my n900 and n810 before it
May 28 12:11:47 <lardman> no I don't think so
May 28 12:12:00 <lcuk> lardman, it is one of the meego target uxes though isnt it?
May 28 12:12:07 <SpeedEvil> Yeah - in good conditions on the n900, you can use it with no backlight.
May 28 12:12:25 <Jaffa> lcuk: I don't have a Galaxy Tab. The iPad I have is for a totally different use case rather than the always-with-me,always-on,always-connected N900
May 28 12:12:48 <lardman> lcuk: yeah, though Intel only thus far, though thanks for the pointer to the ARM image - I need to do some kernel tweaking and see if I can get multi touch working, then get back to Meego-isation
May 28 12:12:58 <lardman> Jaffa: +1
May 28 12:13:16 <lcuk> Jaffa, right so does your n900 run meego?
May 28 12:13:25 <lcuk> one of mine does
May 28 12:13:33 <lardman> SpeedEvil: yeah, I wonder how well that would work, how much of a difference it would make on the Tab
May 28 12:13:35 <lcuk> and I was pushing for updates over reflashes and data import recently
May 28 12:14:15 <lardman> lcuk: I'm down to one, so not yet, I have some mBarcode patching to do first
May 28 12:14:18 <lcuk> if all people are doing is daily//weekly tests and not filling with data etc it isnt strong for usability
May 28 12:14:38 <lcuk> sure lardman - that same tweaking can technically be done using maemo though?
May 28 12:14:56 <lcuk> so your playtest case can evolve whilst meego core catches up?
May 28 12:15:29 <lardman> what do you mean? I need to run Maemo to make sure the packages work on the majority of N900s which don't run Meego
May 28 12:15:39 <lcuk> lardman, the meego camera app is open source by the way
May 28 12:15:52 <lcuk> it is feasible to add barcode button and link to the processor now
May 28 12:15:53 <lardman> lcuk: yeah I saw that, sounds promising
May 28 12:15:57 <lcuk> unlike it was on the maemo build
May 28 12:16:05 <lardman> absolutely
May 28 12:16:10 * lcuk smiles
May 28 12:16:22 <lcuk> that button and linkup was requested a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time ago
May 28 12:16:36 <lardman> I'm planning to take a look at that, need some time though, have to prioritise atm, and the priority is the existing users
May 28 12:16:51 * lcuk nods 
May 28 12:17:26 <lardman> though once the N900DE image is day to day usable (which it may be now), then would be the time to jump over
May 28 12:17:44 <lardman> though I don't look forward to setting up toolchains and private repos and the like
May 28 12:17:55 <lardman> again, I need some time to work it all out
May 28 12:18:04 <lcuk> lardman, I have stopped reflashing every day because I am able to use it for various things and filling in more data to see how that copes
May 28 12:18:21 <lcuk> the nature of the bugs are changing from "i cannot run blah" to "when using blah ..."
May 28 12:19:04 <lcuk> which is massive shift in usability
May 28 12:19:08 <alterego> I've not been flashing daily for ages
May 28 12:19:26 * lcuk flashes when told an important bug has been fixed
May 28 12:19:41 <alterego> I work on an image and if I have a bug that prevents what I'm doing is fixed, I'll update
May 28 12:19:47 <lcuk> the n900-de has come on in leaps and bounds
May 28 12:19:50 <lardman> would be good to be able to update in an ssu fashion
May 28 12:19:51 <alterego> Yeah
May 28 12:20:06 <lcuk> lardman, yeah but that is tricky even from general meego perspective
May 28 12:20:37 <SpeedEvil> Oooh - I can SSU from maemo to meego - how? And do all my calendars and contacts stay?
May 28 12:20:40 <alterego> It's on the cards, but it's quite a way away.
May 28 12:20:40 <SpeedEvil> :)
May 28 12:20:54 <alterego> SpeedEvil: no :P
May 28 12:20:56 <lardman> SpeedEvil: :)
May 28 12:21:21 <lardman> are there any up to date screen shots of the N900DE apps?
May 28 12:21:31 <lardman> and any info about how to import contacts, calendar, etc?
May 28 12:23:08 <lardman> hmm, lunchtime, /me goes to buy some bacon and eggs for cooking. mmmm :)
May 28 12:40:30 <lcuk> lol @ all the new twitter followers after just a couple of random posts http://twitter.com/lcuk
May 28 12:42:26 <SpeedEvil> I should probably get a 'proper' twitter account.
May 28 12:42:33 <SpeedEvil> I've only had a quarantined one so fer.
May 28 12:44:03 <SpeedEvil> I'm still boggling at the fact I've got 11 followers.
May 28 12:44:27 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, I wonder where most of my followers come from
May 28 12:44:35 <lcuk> but people just keep adding themselves, tis amusing
May 28 12:49:12 <SpeedEvil> On an unrelated matter - does DE have flash?
May 28 12:49:45 <delac> trying to install targets to Meego SDK 1.2 with mad-admin, but the "mad-admin list" gives me only old targets like meego-netbook-ia32-1.1.2 and meego-netbook-ia32-trunk which apparently refers to meego-netbook-ia32-1.1.99. Any thoughts?
May 28 12:50:58 * SpeedEvil idlyu wonders about JS-in-hardware accelleration.
May 28 12:53:50 <alterego> SpeedEvil: why don't you try and write a js interpreter in GLSL :P
May 28 12:57:27 <wirehack7> hello, one question: how to install make? i tried with the software manager, but it has been stuck, waiting for 30min now to install
May 28 12:58:11 <wirehack7> but to install make i downloaded make, cd to the dir of unpacked files, made ./configure, but the next thing i have to do is make and make install
May 28 12:58:14 <wirehack7> i have no make...
May 28 12:58:29 <sirdancealot> :D
May 28 12:58:33 <delac> wirehack7: are you using the notebook edition?
May 28 12:58:42 <wirehack7> delac, yes netbook
May 28 12:58:55 <delac> wirehack7: because I think there is some bug on the packagemanager
May 28 12:59:03 <delac> wirehack7: stop the install
May 28 12:59:09 <wirehack7> i stopped
May 28 12:59:21 <delac> wirehack7: fetch the repso again
May 28 12:59:27 <delac> repos*
May 28 12:59:48 <delac> wirehack7: and try to install the make
May 28 12:59:51 <wirehack7> i did
May 28 12:59:53 <wirehack7> kk
May 28 13:00:18 <delac> I had the same problem with my system
May 28 13:00:40 <delac> first time I tried to install anything, it would just hang
May 28 13:00:55 <delac> had to stop the install and fetch the repos
May 28 13:01:00 <delac> then it would work
May 28 13:01:16 <delac> althoug it did take long time even after that
May 28 13:01:27 <alterego> Looks like they edited out my phone number :D
May 28 13:01:49 <alterego> Are the sessions up yet?
May 28 13:02:13 <wirehack7> resolving dependencies is there know
May 28 13:02:16 <alterego> Erm, videos
May 28 13:02:25 <wirehack7> *now
May 28 13:02:42 <delac> that might take some time
May 28 13:02:53 <wirehack7> kk, i go buying food now
May 28 13:03:04 <wirehack7> maybe a good thing in that time
May 28 13:07:12 <wirehack7> and why it's so awkward in MeeGo, in ubuntu just sudo apt-get install make :(
May 28 13:08:57 <berndhs> wirehack7: to install "make" on meego, just do zypper install make
May 28 13:09:52 <wirehack7> phew, that was easy, thanks alot berndhs
May 28 13:11:25 <blindfish_> hi
May 28 13:20:21 <dreamer> Myrtti: ok, have a correct md5sum now at least. so redoing everything hehe
May 28 13:20:50 <lardman> mmm, bacon was good
May 28 13:21:20 <lardman> SpeedEvil: not sure JS is going to be a very good candidate for parallelised hw acceleration
May 28 13:41:23 <lcuk> lardman, which language is good for parallelised accel
May 28 13:41:38 <lcuk> mmm bacon (lag)
May 28 13:42:13 <dreamer> hmmm, still getting this: VFS: cannot open root device "mmcblk0p1" or unknown-block(179,1) - using the flasher on my n900
May 28 13:42:32 <dreamer> I checked the image and the md5 of the bz2 is correct
May 28 13:42:57 <lcuk> dreamer, pastebin the full log including command line used for flasher
May 28 13:43:16 <dreamer> lcuk: where do I get the log?
May 28 13:43:27 <lcuk> where are you noticing the problem?
May 28 13:43:39 <dreamer> on boot
May 28 13:44:07 <lcuk> well then I have lost context, start again and explain your problem
May 28 13:44:08 <dreamer> https://meego.com/devices/handset/installing-meego-nokia-n900 << last step of this guide
May 28 13:45:01 <dreamer> using meego-handset-armv7l-n900-1.1-mmcblk0p.raw.bz2
May 28 13:45:28 <wirehack7> how to change the name of the device?
May 28 13:46:00 <lardman> lcuk: good to write code, or a good language to parallelise?
May 28 13:46:02 <wirehack7> it's PC-192-168- now, want to change it
May 28 13:48:59 <pupnika_> how about you shits grow a pair of testicles
May 28 13:49:05 <pupnika_> and reject the tyranny
May 28 13:49:09 <pupnika_> before you die forever
May 28 13:49:27 <pupnika_> has that occcured to you, you intel dickheads?
May 28 13:49:30 <dreamer> ?
May 28 13:49:49 <dreamer> what is your problem pupnika_ ?
May 28 13:50:00 <pupnika_> reality? durrr?
May 28 13:50:08 <pupnika_> tyranny
May 28 13:50:20 <pupnika_> 'i love das furerher'
May 28 13:50:25 <pupnika_> hey RST38bis
May 28 13:50:32 <dm8tbr> getting wasted again, eh?
May 28 13:50:34 <dreamer> what are you talking about man?
May 28 13:50:34 <pupnika_> these idiots think life is normal
May 28 13:51:01 <RST38bis> life is normal.
May 28 13:51:05 <pupnika_> 250,000 national security letters
May 28 13:51:14 <pupnika_> the nazi state is watching you
May 28 13:51:41 <dm8tbr> DawnFoster / Stskeeps - ping!
May 28 13:51:43 <pupnika_> i hate stupid fucking idiots... especially in the open-source community
May 28 13:51:57 <RST38bis> your definition of "normal" is too narrow :)
May 28 13:52:21 <pupnika_> you will march into the gas chambers
May 28 13:52:38 <dreamer> pupnika_: sounds
May 28 13:52:41 <dreamer> oops
May 28 13:52:55 <dreamer> pupnika_: sounds like a stupid rant to me
May 28 13:52:56 <pupnika_> i can document all of this dreamer
May 28 13:53:07 <pupnika_> bitch, i'll show you
May 28 13:53:21 <dreamer> what is the use of ranting here? what do you think it will accomplish?
May 28 13:53:25 <pupnika_> this is what meego opposes
May 28 13:53:45 <pupnika_> free software can prevent tyranny
May 28 13:53:51 <dreamer> I think any support channel an freenode opposes random rants that have no use
May 28 13:54:19 <pupnika_> dreamer: 250,000 national security letters
May 28 13:54:27 <dreamer> I don't know what that means
May 28 13:54:36 <dreamer> and why it should interest me
May 28 13:54:38 <pupnika_> because you are a zero brain
May 28 13:54:52 <pupnika_> null... scheisse
May 28 13:55:07 <pupnika_> a fish
May 28 13:55:19 <dreamer> pupnika_: you sound like a 16 y/o that watched too many Michael Moore movies
May 28 13:55:27 <pupnika_> you are 23
May 28 13:55:28 <wirehack7> a german little kid
May 28 13:55:33 <dm8tbr> dreamer: please stop feeding the drunk troll
May 28 13:55:36 <dreamer> so instead of ranting, you could have a productive conversation
May 28 13:55:36 <pupnika_> lol
May 28 13:55:39 <dreamer> dm8tbr: yeah, sorry
May 28 13:55:48 <pupnika_> dm8tbr: i'll fuck you up any time i want
May 28 13:55:50 * dm8tbr put an ignore in and suggests everyone else does
May 28 13:56:10 <dm8tbr> as freenode staff refused to handle this (not on access list) and meego staff is not around
May 28 13:56:25 <pupnika_> dm8tbr: you're a cunt
May 28 13:56:28 <RST38bis> Penguins, pupnik. Have you ever considered the penguins? They are taking over your life. They are coming into your dreams every night and stare with their empty avian eyes, beaks open in anticipation.
May 28 13:56:41 <dreamer> anyway, does anyone have an idea what I'm getting this VFS: cannot open root device "mmcblk0p1" or unknown-block(179,1)  flashing the 1.1 image on my n900?
May 28 13:56:42 <pupnika_> RST38bis: i am here to disturb the penguins
May 28 13:56:55 <RST38bis> Stop them before it is too late!
May 28 13:56:57 <dm8tbr> dreamer: back cover?
May 28 13:57:08 <dreamer> it's there
May 28 13:57:35 <RST38bis> Before these penguins get you and force you into repeating the same open source mantra over and over!
May 28 13:58:08 <wirehack7> go and make something own pupnika_ before trolling ppl how bad they are
May 28 13:58:12 <wirehack7> do it even better
May 28 13:58:29 <RST38bis> Reject the penguins! Tell no to penguins! Accept Ballmer as your one and only God before it is too late!
May 28 13:59:32 <RST38bis> Only He can save you from the inevitable, the avian occupation by the ugly, mute, rotten fish smelling birds!
May 28 13:59:32 <pupnika_> sorry
May 28 13:59:37 <dreamer> dm8tbr: it just kernel panics
May 28 13:59:40 <pupnika_> stop the joking
May 28 13:59:58 <dm8tbr> dreamer: did you put your backcover on?
May 28 13:59:59 * RST38bis stops and goes off to see St Petersburg
May 28 14:00:03 <pupnika_> RST38bis: what's wrong with you
May 28 14:00:23 <pupnika_> dm8tbr: i should troutslap you
May 28 14:00:25 <RST38bis> pupnik: I am showing how to troll Properly.
May 28 14:00:33 <pupnika_> RST38bis: ok
May 28 14:00:39 <pupnika_> RST38bis: it's not funny
May 28 14:01:06 <pupnika_> i'm using my time to disperse info
May 28 14:01:26 <pupnika_> why do you try to make jokes
May 28 14:01:27 <blindfish_> rofl
May 28 14:01:33 <blindfish_> pupnika made my day ...
May 28 14:01:36 <psycho_oreos> Stskeeps, andre__, X-Fade, DawnFoster, sofar, w00t_ and gabrbedd: ping
May 28 14:01:45 <pupnika_> blindfish_: your nick is a very good one
May 28 14:01:53 <blindfish_> your's not
May 28 14:01:56 <pupnika_> americunts are the dumbest fish in the sea
May 28 14:02:16 <wirehack7> he's even german
May 28 14:02:21 <wirehack7> trololol
May 28 14:02:26 <pupnika_> and you will die in a lead storm
May 28 14:02:39 <wirehack7> you will die by heart disease
May 28 14:02:41 <dm8tbr> are the others also chanops? only knew about dawn and carsten
May 28 14:02:51 <blindfish_> wirehack7: you think pupnika is german?
May 28 14:02:53 <blindfish_> why?
May 28 14:03:09 <pupnika_> dm8tbr: is one of the tarded germans who can't see past their own shell script
May 28 14:03:29 <pupnika_> but he is better than american retards
May 28 14:03:41 <pupnika_> he's just AFRAID of OFFENDING AMERICANS
May 28 14:03:43 <pupnika_> HAHAHAHAHAH
May 28 14:03:47 <pupnika_> CUNT!
May 28 14:03:49 <wirehack7> blindfish_, dns look up
May 28 14:03:59 <psycho_oreos> dm8tbr, according to /msg chanserv access #meego list
May 28 14:04:02 <pupnika_> PUSSY!
May 28 14:04:36 <dm8tbr> was too lazy to look that up and remembered that the two were 'the ones to contact'
May 28 14:04:59 <pupnika_> dm8tbr: your contributions to linux are unassailable
May 28 14:05:05 <pupnika_> so i'll go away
May 28 14:05:41 <pupnika_> wait, but you are a fucking pussy
May 28 14:05:45 <blindfish_> hmm ... the german become stupider each day. need to emigrade i guess
May 28 14:05:50 <pupnika_> and you suck satan's cock all day and night
May 28 14:06:01 <pupnika_> except for your work for linux
May 28 14:06:06 * dm8tbr did and lives happily in finland :>
May 28 14:06:06 <pupnika_> you're an idiot
May 28 14:06:08 <wirehack7> that's because even more and more kids get access to a internet conenction blindfish_
May 28 14:07:04 * isolor is away: I might be doing something more interesting than being here
May 28 14:07:08 * isolor is back (gone 00:00:03)
May 28 14:09:04 <delac> trying to install targets to Meego SDK 1.2 with mad-admin, but the "mad-admin list" gives me only old targets like meego-netbook-ia32-1.1.2 and meego-netbook-ia32-trunk which apparently refers to meego-netbook-ia32-1.1.99. Any thoughts?
May 28 14:10:04 <blindfish_> wirehack7: yes, some assholes in the german government count the internet-connection to basic services, so - ass we all se - every syphilitic monkey gets a free access :(
May 28 14:13:51 <SpeedEvil> lardman: I wasn't meaning offloading it onto the DSP - I was wondering if it was plausible to do an actual hardware unit.
May 28 14:14:07 <SpeedEvil> lardman: Some features do make it awkward though.
May 28 14:14:40 <SpeedEvil> Well - most features.
May 28 14:14:53 <SpeedEvil> Strongly typed langeages without implicit stuff are much easier.
May 28 14:14:58 <SpeedEvil> DOM adds annoyance too.
May 28 14:21:46 <andre__> psycho_oreos, what's up?
May 28 14:22:00 <psycho_oreos> andre__, thanks but Stskeeps sorted it out :)
May 28 14:22:02 <andre__> ah. I see
May 28 14:22:18 <psycho_oreos> was a troll issue that happened earlier on
May 28 14:22:26 <andre__> yeah
May 28 14:27:34 <Vanadis> i just heard someone was gnoming in here?
May 28 14:29:02 <psycho_oreos> gnoming?
May 28 14:32:03 <Vanadis> psycho_oreos, yes, gnoming
May 28 14:32:25 <dm8tbr> yes but it got handled
May 28 14:32:29 <delac> anyone installed meego on netbook alongside some other linux? does that work fine? any problems with bootloaders?
May 28 14:33:54 <psycho_oreos> Vanadis, if you meant troll yes
May 28 15:13:07 <mwichmann> hmmm, have occasion to want to use an arm image in qemu, does anyone know the right fu (kickstart) to make it work?
May 28 15:13:34 <mwichmann> the ia32 kickstarts have pkgs that dont seem to exist in the arm repo
May 28 15:25:35 <delac> trying to install targets to Meego SDK 1.2 with mad-admin, but the "mad-admin list" gives me only old targets like meego-netbook-ia32-1.1.2 and meego-netbook-ia32-trunk which apparently refers to meego-netbook-ia32-1.1.99. Any thoughts?
May 28 15:27:33 <Myrtti> wow, that was somewhat unexpected turn in the events
May 28 15:27:49 <dm8tbr> lol, the meego-ux-daemon doesn't take it well when you restrict the available scaling frequencies!
May 28 15:28:07 <dm8tbr> started crashing every few seconds
May 28 15:28:22 <lcuk> Myrtti, ?
May 28 15:28:47 <Myrtti> pupnik losing his marbles
May 28 15:28:52 <mah454> Hello ...
May 28 15:29:00 <mah454> I install meego-1.1
May 28 15:29:02 <dm8tbr> not surprising at all, happens every now and then
May 28 15:29:36 <mah454> meego-1.1 have not yum command ?!
May 28 15:29:42 <mah454> why ?
May 28 15:30:00 <dm8tbr> zypper
May 28 15:30:06 <dm8tbr> use that
May 28 15:44:29 <delac> has anyone managed to use the Meego SDK 1.2?
May 28 15:46:05 <mwichmann> delac: only a bit, it's giving me lots of trouble too
May 28 15:46:06 <berndhs> delac: yes a little, seems to work ok
May 28 15:47:21 <delac> what is the version number of the most current Targets? as given by "mad-admin list"?
May 28 15:47:56 <lcuk> lardman, earlier you mentioned parallel programming
May 28 15:47:57 <lcuk> http://developers.slashdot.org/story/11/05/27/1831251/What-Makes-Parallel-Programming-Difficult
May 28 15:48:02 <lcuk> noticed that now
May 28 15:49:44 <berndhs> one of the things that makes it hard is that people do multi-threading instead
May 28 15:49:54 <berndhs> with really low level synchronization
May 28 15:50:24 <berndhs> multi-threading is a really dumb choice as a programming model
May 28 15:50:56 <raster> not really
May 28 15:51:02 <berndhs> its idiotic
May 28 15:51:05 <raster> multi-threading is just the basic mechanism
May 28 15:51:09 <raster> how you USE it matters
May 28 15:51:12 <raster> eg
May 28 15:51:19 <berndhs> I said as a programming model
May 28 15:51:25 <raster> if u decide to go spwaning a new thread for everything you do.. u'll not come out well
May 28 15:51:39 <raster> if you just have a worker thread per cpu hanging about\
May 28 15:51:41 <berndhs> expressing your parallel algorithm in terms of multi-threading is wrong
May 28 15:51:45 <raster> and u throw tasks onto work queues for them
May 28 15:51:57 <raster> and then just wake them up once their queue has something worth waking up for in it
May 28 15:52:01 <raster> u're probably doing better
May 28 15:52:01 <raster> :)
May 28 15:52:09 <berndhs> multi-threading is a manufacturing solution, not a programming model
May 28 15:52:29 <raster> it is a model
May 28 15:52:37 <raster> its the same model everyone has used for years
May 28 15:52:42 <raster> just multiplied by N
May 28 15:52:44 <raster> ie N stacks
May 28 15:52:45 <berndhs> yes but it is there because of manufacturing advantages
May 28 15:52:50 <raster> N execution contexts
May 28 15:52:53 <berndhs> right
May 28 15:52:56 <berndhs> that's idiotic
May 28 15:53:04 <raster> thats what the hardware looks like
May 28 15:53:09 <berndhs> right
May 28 15:53:22 <berndhs> and using that as a programming model is idiotic
May 28 15:53:33 <raster> even that doesnt help u all the time
May 28 15:53:38 <berndhs> nobody writes programs in terms of registsers and caches
May 28 15:53:40 <raster> eg u may have 2 or 4 or 8 cores
May 28 15:53:47 <raster> but they share the same cache and memory bus
May 28 15:53:48 <berndhs> but thats what the hardware looks like
May 28 15:53:52 <raster> if they are all hammering on memory access
May 28 15:54:01 <raster> u can easily perform worse with workload split
May 28 15:54:11 <raster> that it being just concentrated in a single thread
May 28 15:54:20 <delac> mwichmann: what kind of problems? and what targets you use?
May 28 15:54:23 <berndhs> so writing multi-programs as excatly the hardware model is not a good idea either
May 28 15:54:24 <raster> of course multilpe cores look great when youa re compute not access bound
May 28 15:54:25 <raster> :)
May 28 15:54:47 <berndhs> i'm not talking about details of how to use it most efficiently
May 28 15:54:59 <mwichmann> delac: we had the tablet download problem last week
May 28 15:55:02 <berndhs> i'm talking about getting correct execution with good parallelism
May 28 15:55:14 <mwichmann> (now fixed but there seems to be more problems there)
May 28 15:55:27 <berndhs> and multi-threading is fundamentally the wrong way to do that
May 28 15:55:27 <mwichmann> well this week... time not moving that fast :)
May 28 15:56:15 <mwichmann> I built for netbook but it refused to use the right toolchain and built native instead, so I got x86_64 rpm in the end :(
May 28 15:56:27 <mwichmann> I seem to have it beaten into some shape now
May 28 15:56:29 <raster> berndhs: iu dont mean multithreading
May 28 15:56:34 <raster> u mean multiple execution units\
May 28 15:56:54 <berndhs> yes you are talking about efficiencies
May 28 15:57:16 <berndhs> I am talking about the evil nature of multi threading as a programming model
May 28 15:57:54 <berndhs> its too low level
May 28 15:58:10 <raster> people would argue that c and c++ are too low level
May 28 15:58:14 <raster> just go use erlang
May 28 15:58:15 <raster> :)
May 28 15:58:26 <raster> FACt is..
May 28 15:58:30 <berndhs> and worse, if you write a multi-thread program, it won't work on any other multi-processor
May 28 15:58:32 <raster> c/c++ are low level
May 28 15:58:39 <berndhs> so what?
May 28 15:58:40 <raster> and thus.. multithreading falls into their ballpark
May 28 15:58:51 <raster> u casn build a higher level thing on top of them
May 28 15:58:51 <raster> ie
May 28 15:58:53 <raster> erlang
May 28 15:58:54 <delac> mwichmann: do you remember the version number for the netbook target?
May 28 15:58:54 <berndhs> c++ can run on many different architectures
May 28 15:59:09 <berndhs> c++ being low level has nothing to do with it
May 28 15:59:18 <raster> so can a multithreaded one
May 28 15:59:19 <mwichmann> I was using 1.1.2
May 28 15:59:25 <berndhs> you can write message passing programs in c++ if you want
May 28 15:59:37 <berndhs> and people do that
May 28 16:00:01 <delac> mwichmann: hmm, that is the problem I'm having. I think that is too old version. It should be at least 1.2.0 at this point.
May 28 16:00:36 <mwichmann> yes, I'll switch; I specifically needed a 1.1 example for my talk, because the compliance checker is only at 1.1
May 28 16:00:44 <berndhs> multi-threading is just a hardware implementation
May 28 16:01:03 <berndhs> should not be used as a general purpose model to write programs
May 28 16:01:16 <delac> mwichmann: do you have anything newer available? I dont seem to even have anything.
May 28 16:01:37 <mwichmann> mad-admin shows me a large list
May 28 16:02:02 <delac> mwichmann: do you have anything over 1.20?
May 28 16:02:09 <mwichmann> ... but not, apparently, a 1.2 for netbook
May 28 16:02:21 <mwichmann> it's confusing; the installer tool shows different things than this
May 28 16:02:40 <raster> berndhs:  c is a hardware implementation too
May 28 16:02:45 <raster> it should also not be used to write programs?
May 28 16:02:49 <berndhs> no its niot
May 28 16:02:50 <raster> what should we use then?
May 28 16:02:53 <raster> yes it is
May 28 16:02:55 <berndhs> C is  a programming language
May 28 16:03:06 <raster> they are fundamentally no different
May 28 16:03:13 <berndhs> yes they are
May 28 16:03:19 <delac> mwichmann: interesting
May 28 16:03:25 <berndhs> you can run C on many different types of hardware
May 28 16:03:26 <raster> multithreading exposes a concurrent execution and control model that maps onto the kind of hardware we have
May 28 16:03:43 <berndhs> multi-threading is the worst way to do that
May 28 16:03:43 <raster> and u can run mukltithreaded apps on all the same hardware
May 28 16:03:55 <berndhs> as a programming model
May 28 16:04:00 <raster> its the same thing
May 28 16:04:02 <berndhs> as a hardware implementation its fine
May 28 16:04:09 <raster> c assumes a unified memory model
May 28 16:04:09 <berndhs> no it is not the same thing
May 28 16:04:14 <raster> so does multithreading
May 28 16:04:19 <berndhs> nonsense
May 28 16:04:20 <delac> mwichmann: do you have something called MaintenaceTool installed on your system?
May 28 16:04:22 <raster> c assumes a stack and a heap, so does multithreading
May 28 16:04:23 <raster> ...
May 28 16:04:26 <raster> not nonsense
May 28 16:04:29 <mwichmann> delac: the installer has downloaded for me meego-netbook-ia32-qemu-1.2.0-raw.tar.bz2 and meego-core-ia32-madde-sysroot-1.2.0-fs.tar.bz2
May 28 16:04:36 <berndhs> no C does not assume a stack and heap in hardware
May 28 16:04:47 <mwichmann> yes, by "installer" I mean the maintenance tool
May 28 16:04:53 <berndhs> multi threading assumes a shared memory space
May 28 16:04:56 <raster> and multithreading doesnt ASSUME multiple cores
May 28 16:05:07 <berndhs> and that is already a bad programming model for most parallel machines
May 28 16:05:19 <raster> C does assume a stack and heap
May 28 16:05:25 <raster> malloc and friends expose a heap
May 28 16:05:38 <raster> the fact that u can even call a function assumes a stack (to allow for recursion)
May 28 16:05:39 <berndhs> no you can have malloc on some other memory model
May 28 16:05:52 <raster> the fact that u have pointers and can pass them around from func to func assumes a unified memory model/space
May 28 16:05:59 <berndhs> function calls do not assume  a hardware stack
May 28 16:06:20 <raster> there is no such thing as a hardware stack
May 28 16:06:32 <delac> mwichmann: hmm, I gues I need to use the installer too. I just set up the repos and hoped it would get me all I need but apparently the installer fetches something extra.
May 28 16:06:35 <berndhs> there is no good reason to assume shared memory as a model for parallel programs
May 28 16:06:37 <raster> a stack is simply a storage space you push elements onto as u go down the call tree
May 28 16:06:43 <raster> and pop from when done to get returns etc.
May 28 16:06:47 <berndhs> it makes things really hard to get correct
May 28 16:07:05 <raster> the fact that u can just pass pointers to elements on a stack to functions and have them operate on them the same as memmory froma  heap etc.
May 28 16:07:09 <raster> assumes a unified memory model
May 28 16:07:19 <mwichmann> delac: yes, that's right; the big globs (qemu runtimes, sysroots) are downloaded by madde (mad-admin)
May 28 16:07:27 <raster> its fundamentally no differeht to pthreads
May 28 16:07:28 <berndhs> you can write distributed memory models in C
May 28 16:07:32 <mwichmann> the installer calls those for you, but you can also do manually
May 28 16:07:40 <mwichmann> try "mad-admin list"
May 28 16:07:46 <berndhs> jsut that you can also write uniform memory models does not mean you have to
May 28 16:07:47 <raster> you can
May 28 16:07:51 <raster> u have to WRAP it all
May 28 16:07:52 <raster> behind calls
May 28 16:07:57 <raster> no different to pthreads
May 28 16:08:08 <mwichmann> you don't /have/ to use the installer, but it seems to be easier now
May 28 16:08:10 <raster> u can turn it into message passin g or something else if u want
May 28 16:08:24 <berndhs> yes and expressing all parallel algorithms in the lowest hardware implementation is what is idiotic
May 28 16:08:31 <delac> mwichmann: well I was actually counting on that, but apparently get madde doesnt seem to find the newest targets. Didnt you say that the installer does find them?
May 28 16:08:34 <mwichmann> mad-admin fetch   to download,  mad-admin create   to unpack
May 28 16:08:38 <berndhs> and *teaching* this as the normal parallel programming model is worse
May 28 16:08:56 <mwichmann> I've got a dual-boot setup here and happen to be booted into the wrong universe
May 28 16:09:02 <raster> der as will 10000's of people say that exposing pointers (memory) in a programming model is idiotic
May 28 16:09:08 <berndhs> you can run things like message passing just find on the hardware we have
May 28 16:09:11 <mwichmann> it does seem to be finding the right stuff when I chroot into the other one
May 28 16:09:18 <raster> they are no different
May 28 16:09:33 <berndhs> I dont care what thousands of people say
May 28 16:09:34 <mwichmann> e.g. under Targets I now see:  meego-netbook-ia32-1.2.0                 (installed)
May 28 16:09:44 <raster> the threading model (i'll talk of pthreads here as i believe thats whats being assumed) is in the same boat as tyhe rest of the c/c+= world
May 28 16:09:44 <berndhs> millions of people voted for Stalin
May 28 16:10:02 <mwichmann> and under Runtimes: meego-netbook-ia32-qemu-1.2.0-runtime                      (installed)
May 28 16:10:07 <berndhs> no the threading model is in the boat of minds with no imagination
May 28 16:10:17 <lardman> lcuk: thanks for the links
May 28 16:10:19 <delac> mwichmann: well, my problem is that I dont see it even as available
May 28 16:10:27 <mwichmann> ugh
May 28 16:10:36 <berndhs> i'm talking about multi-programming
May 28 16:10:38 <lcuk> lardman, better than the link is the conversation it spawned :)
May 28 16:10:45 <berndhs> not about some specific implementation of it
May 28 16:10:55 <berndhs> and I think that is where the disagreement is
May 28 16:11:07 <lardman> worst problem I have is trying to get a handle on memory latency & memory movement speeds vs processor occupancy
May 28 16:11:10 <berndhs> that you don't see a model, you only see implementation
May 28 16:11:25 <delac> mwichmann: can you tell me what version of madde-config-ia32 you have installed?
May 28 16:11:49 <mwichmann> madde-config-ia32-0.7.59-3.1.x86_64
May 28 16:12:21 <lardman> found a rather shaky video of N900DE on TMO
May 28 16:12:29 <delac> mwichmann: hmm, same version as I have...
May 28 16:12:32 <lardman> lcuk: did you say it has a calendar onboard?
May 28 16:12:40 <berndhs> I write C++ code with pointers, they have little or nothing to do with the memory hardware
May 28 16:13:41 <berndhs> and in fact, the uniform memory assumed by C does not exist in hardware
May 28 16:14:05 <berndhs> hardware has a hierachy of caches and registers, paging and swapping
May 28 16:14:18 <berndhs> there is no flat uniform memory in hardware
May 28 16:14:51 <mwichmann> delac: perhaps there's someone on #meego-sdk who knows how to unstick your setup (or rather, get it to refresh the list of targets/runtimes)
May 28 16:15:10 <lardman> working out which is the best to use of texture memory vs coalesced reads from global GPU memory is unfortunately a pita
May 28 16:15:33 <lardman> though they both use the same memory, but different read caching, afaiu
May 28 16:15:53 <delac> mwichmann: I think that might be meego-devel, althoug that place is pretty dead right now...
May 28 16:16:51 <lardman> lcuk: nice example: MATLAB code takes 850s, MATLAB code using GPU extensions takes 9s :)
May 28 16:19:59 <lcuk> alterego, why does dialer component have a close button?
May 28 16:20:10 <lcuk> I thought tablet ui did not have that, have you added it yourself?
May 28 16:26:31 <dm8tbr> lol, someone might want to fix the meego.com frontpage...
May 28 16:27:17 <lardman> dm8tbr: it never seems to be very up to date ;)
May 28 16:30:58 <lcuk> dm8tbr, it took maemo quite a while to move lardman from the front page :P
May 28 16:31:23 <lardman> lcuk: oi!
May 28 16:31:32 <lardman> my immense mass
May 28 16:32:04 <lcuk> is that what you call your gut nowadays? :P
May 28 16:32:19 <lardman> :)
May 28 16:32:47 <lardman> some people might get offended :p
May 28 16:32:50 <dm8tbr> ok, and given the mass of that bridge up there it might take a year or two
May 28 16:33:03 <lcuk> lardman, have you seen/tried appupavatar.com ?
May 28 16:33:16 <lardman> lcuk: yeah I had a quick look the other day
May 28 16:33:19 <berndhs> the pope has immense mass on easter and xmas
May 28 16:33:26 <lcuk> lol dm8tbr
May 28 16:33:28 <lardman> lol
May 28 16:33:36 <lcuk> no wonder the meegon with a hatt on is smiling
May 28 16:33:43 <lcuk> he made a whole bridge levitate!
May 28 16:34:15 <lcuk> speaking of which, what time is doctor who on?
May 28 16:35:12 <lardman> dunno, I don't watch it, was always scared of it as a kid :)
May 28 16:35:45 <berndhs> he was one of my professors, Dr Hu
May 28 16:36:46 <berndhs> did combinatorics
May 28 16:37:00 <javispedro> and killed aliens?
May 28 16:37:23 <berndhs> well, he was already of advanced age, maybe earlier in his life
May 28 16:38:00 <dm8tbr> meh, i thought this exopc was so spiffy and all. if you actually have something showing in those panels on tablet UX it gets all jerky if you swipe...
May 28 16:44:59 <chouchoune> I've read that Fedora 15 will be supported later for Meego SDK ...
May 28 16:45:12 <chouchoune> but does anyone know if it will be soon or not ?
May 28 16:45:48 <lardman> anyone know if I can pass an argument to the callback of a QTimer::singleShot() ?
May 28 16:46:06 <chouchoune> Do I have to downgrade to Fedora 15 or Ubuntu 10.10 to develop for Meego or is it just a matter of days/weeks ?
May 28 16:57:11 <lardman> apparently not
May 28 16:57:17 <lardman> as in it's not possible
May 28 17:15:35 <solstag> hello!
May 28 17:15:51 <solstag> I'm trying meego for the 1st time... only one issue so far
May 28 17:16:04 <solstag> chromium won't start, on the terminal it gives a "bus error"
May 28 17:16:10 <solstag> anybody seen this?
May 28 17:16:44 <dm8tbr> why are you trying to start chromium from the terminal?
May 28 17:17:03 <solstag> I wasn't, but it wouldn't start so I tried to see if it gave any hints as to why
May 28 17:17:07 <andre__> to get error output?
May 28 17:17:40 <chouchoune> lol dm8tbr, why not ? ;)
May 28 17:17:57 <dm8tbr> chouchoune: I was trying to understand what he's trying to do and why
May 28 17:18:09 <dm8tbr> and apparently the real problem is that chromium won't start
May 28 17:18:11 <solstag> hehe
May 28 17:18:15 <chouchoune> ;)
May 28 17:18:41 <dm8tbr> also when doing such things from the terminal you have to remember to check if DISPLAY is set etc
May 28 17:19:40 <chouchoune> but the issue from DISPLQY wouldn't be that one but omething like "Cannot open display:"
May 28 17:19:59 <chouchoune> s/DISPLQY/DISPLAY/
May 28 17:19:59 <infobot> chouchoune meant: but the issue from DISPLAY wouldn't be that one but omething like "Cannot open display:"
May 28 17:20:14 <chouchoune> haha, nice bot ;)
May 28 17:20:16 <dm8tbr> I've seen X11 software fail in interesting ways and not saying 'can't open display'
May 28 17:20:38 <solstag> well, not meaning to interrupt this curious deviation, but has anyone seen this "bus error" thing, or have any idea why?
May 28 17:20:42 <dm8tbr> solstag: what sort of CPU?
May 28 17:20:54 <solstag> Atom n450
May 28 17:21:09 <solstag> it's an acer aspire one, with 1gb RAM
May 28 17:21:34 <dm8tbr> mhm, missing ssse3 would have been another option, but that is certainly there...
May 28 17:21:43 <solstag> also, I am running from the pen drive
May 28 17:21:48 <solstag> that might be related
May 28 17:22:02 <chouchoune> solstag: can you check chromium -h ?
May 28 17:22:21 <chouchoune> to see if there is an option to launch it without some kind of synchronization ?
May 28 17:22:51 <solstag> sure... as soon as I find out what the default password for the pen-drive boot is...
May 28 17:22:55 <solstag> it locked on screensaver mode
May 28 17:23:16 <dm8tbr> meego/meego ?
May 28 17:23:16 <solstag> ok, "meego" did it
May 28 17:24:21 <solstag> chouchoune: there's no chromium, only chromium-browser and chromium-browser-ext.sh
May 28 17:24:25 <solstag> trying the first one
May 28 17:24:42 <chouchoune> yes
May 28 17:24:43 <solstag> no synch option, just help and debug
May 28 17:24:58 <chouchoune> debug one ?
May 28 17:25:08 <chouchoune> to have more traces maybe ?
May 28 17:25:11 <solstag> debug calls gdb
May 28 17:25:46 <solstag> no traces, gdb complains that some library is missing
May 28 17:25:57 <blindfish_> does anyone know something about n9 / n950? afair it was going to be announced at the end of mai, which is ... now
May 28 17:27:01 <berndhs> well, there's 3 days left to announce the announcement
May 28 17:27:13 <solstag> chouchoune: "gdb: Unable to find libthread_db matching inferior's thread library, thread debugging will not be available."
May 28 17:27:21 <chouchoune> and no-one said it's in May ;)
May 28 17:28:01 <solstag> chouchoune: that was a "warning:" displayed several times.
May 28 17:28:03 <solstag> chouchoune: and then finally "gdb: Program received signal SIGBUS, Bus error."
May 28 17:28:28 <chouchoune> ok
May 28 17:28:33 <chouchoune> no idea sorry
May 28 17:28:55 <chouchoune> maybe someone else ;)
May 28 17:28:56 <solstag> yeah... : P
May 28 17:28:58 <solstag> weird thing
May 28 17:29:04 <chouchoune> I'm ebven not using meego netbook version
May 28 17:29:04 <berndhs> the warnings are just gdb telling you that it can't tell you anything
May 28 17:29:06 <solstag> chouchoune: thanks anyway :)
May 28 17:29:06 <chouchoune> yes
May 28 17:32:58 <solstag> chouchoune: why did you ask about a sync option? maybe I can create a config file telling it not to sync?
May 28 17:35:48 <delac> oh nice, NOW I noticed that 64bit systems are not supported by the SDK...
May 28 17:36:55 <delac> so, was there anyone who had installed Meego alongside another distro?
May 28 17:38:05 <lardman> yeah, I've installed it on my 64bit system
May 28 17:38:18 <lardman> the SDK this is
May 28 17:38:41 <chouchoune> solstag: no idea, just had an issue like this with another software which was trying to synchronize unsuccessfully once ;)
May 28 17:39:10 <chouchoune> delac: I know someone which installed it on (k)ubuntu 11.04 64 bits
May 28 17:39:20 <delac> lardman: you have? The wiki pages tout that it is only for 32 bit systems
May 28 17:39:41 <delac> chouchoune: oh? 11.04 shouldnt be supported either
May 28 17:39:54 <chouchoune> delac: on developer.meego.com it's written that it's not tested
May 28 17:40:00 <lardman> Linux simon-desktop 2.6.35-24-generic #42-Ubuntu SMP Thu Dec 2 02:41:37 UTC 2010 x86_64 GNU/Linux
May 28 17:40:18 <delac> lardman: how well does the SDK work?
May 28 17:40:43 <chouchoune> delac: I agree, but not supported doesn't mean that it won't work
May 28 17:40:56 <chouchoune> just that it's your problem if it soesn't work ;)
May 28 17:41:07 <chouchoune> I have the issue with fedora 15 on my side
May 28 17:41:42 * lardman wonders if this is some later SDK than the one he installed
May 28 17:42:08 <lardman> tbh I tried it when I installed it, then went back to Maemo dev (which also doesn't support 64bit fwiw) due to lack of working hw at the time
May 28 17:43:00 <delac> lardman: ah. dont remember the version?
May 28 17:44:11 <lardman> no, was from tail end of last year though
May 28 17:44:36 <lardman> but as chouchoune says, it may not be officially supported (Ubuntu in general wasn't at the time) but can probably still be made to work
May 28 17:45:12 <delac> lardman: did you manage to build any working apps?
May 28 17:45:40 <lardman> the compiler worked, but I didn't try building anything
May 28 17:45:51 <lardman> but I don't see that there would be any problem
May 28 17:50:18 <alterego> lcuk: To close the window? :)
May 28 17:58:47 <lcuk> alterego, I know
May 28 17:58:57 <lcuk> I did not know that it had to be added by you though
May 28 18:00:35 <alterego> Oh yeah
May 28 18:00:40 <alterego> Well, it doesn't _have_to be
May 28 18:01:03 <alterego> When I originally implemented the UX, it was a pure QML clone of the MTF based dialer UX
May 28 18:01:20 <alterego> So I had to implement that stuff, because the Qt windows didn't render window decorations.
May 28 18:05:00 <smhar> I lost my N900 -very sadly- and I tried another -temporary- phone which only made me miss my N900 more. My question is, is there a new maemo or meego mobile in the horizon soon, or should I just get another N900?
May 28 18:12:34 <delac> is it possible to prevent Meego from installing bootloader? For installing it alongside another distro.
May 28 18:14:59 <lcuk> smhar, if you have a need for *something* today, buy based on the market today
May 28 18:15:14 <lcuk> that has been the same advice for anything ever known to man
May 28 18:15:29 <lcuk> by tomorrow we might not be using mobiles at all, let alone alternative models
May 28 18:15:35 <lcuk> so if you need one now, get one now :)
May 28 18:17:41 <berndhs> i confidently predict tehre will be no new maemo phone this quarter :)
May 28 18:18:32 <pixelgeek> Computex is next week - see what gets announced there?
May 28 18:18:38 <smhar> lcuk, thanks for the eternal advice :-) although for me, at least now, it is more of a convenience and a satisfaction rather than a pressing need
May 28 18:19:14 <berndhs> pixelgeek: indeed worth waiting 1 week
May 28 18:50:45 <sofar> good lord, the trolls were out again last night?
May 28 18:51:30 <sofar> delac: yes, netbook installer in 1.2 has an option to skip bootloader setup
May 28 19:14:55 <TSCHAKeee> berndhs: the RM-680 passed FCC testing
May 28 19:15:00 <TSCHAKeee> berndhs: it will happen.
May 28 19:15:04 <TSCHAKeee> berndhs: so shut your mouth.
May 28 19:16:57 * CosmoHill blinks
May 28 19:26:36 <Jaffa> thp: Should've fixed the spam detection
May 28 19:29:12 <thp> Jaffa: nice :) thx
May 28 19:50:38 <lcuk> an android, iphone and meegon walk into a bar..
May 28 19:57:54 <berndhs> i want some of these http://www.computextaipei.com.tw/en_US/product/info.html?id=7C439ACDB9009ED561741E97934FA9EE
May 28 19:58:05 <berndhs> to break the desktop/tablet barrier
May 28 20:01:38 <delac> sofar: it has? nice. is it obivious or do I have to hack something?
May 28 20:04:36 <CosmoHill> delac: I'd imagine it's a tick box
May 28 20:24:18 <DocScrutinizer> smhar: get a N900 as long as there are some around still
May 28 20:25:01 <DocScrutinizer> smhar: even if you get a 'new meego device' tomorrow, you'll miss the N900
May 28 20:25:22 * CosmoHill wonder's how his laptop battery compartment has become deformed
May 28 20:25:52 <berndhs> elephant sat on the device ?
May 28 20:25:57 <DocScrutinizer> that happened when it decided NOT to burn down your appartment
May 28 20:26:28 <smhar> DocScrutinizer, problem is, it is not available anymore here. I will need to get one online from somewhere. I will probably try to find a good used one from ebay :-/
May 28 20:28:01 <DocScrutinizer> N900 recently started to show up in second hand stores here
May 28 20:28:14 <DocScrutinizer> ~250EUR
May 28 20:31:28 <delac> How do I prevent the bootloader from installing over my grub? In the last image http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/meego/install/ , should I untick all, delete them or just mark the one that has grub?
May 28 20:34:41 <gabrbedd> psycho_oreos: pong!
May 28 20:53:39 <situ_> Anyone tried WeTab OS here ?
May 28 21:24:46 <abhinavmehta> guys whats the future being a meego-developer. Nokia stopped supporting this platform...so how developers future on it.?
May 28 21:25:17 <SpeedEvil> Intel is still supporting it.
May 28 21:25:33 <SpeedEvil> There re some dozens of devices eing worked on by various vendors.
May 28 21:25:51 <SpeedEvil> For example - using it in vehicles, or boats, or ....
May 28 21:27:31 <abhinavmehta> hmm, thats true..
May 28 21:27:47 <abhinavmehta> but could be in mainstream in coming future...in IT.?
May 28 21:28:47 <SpeedEvil> Not soon.
May 28 21:29:06 <SpeedEvil> Is it going to be - probably - a useful player in emedded space - sure.
May 28 21:29:12 <SpeedEvil> embedded.
May 28 21:29:43 <SpeedEvil> Will it get many releases from 'big name' hardware vendors - possibly not.
May 28 21:29:51 <SpeedEvil> At least soon.
May 28 21:30:01 <abhinavmehta> hmm...but now seems like so many other players are already grabbing the market share..
May 28 21:30:37 <abhinavmehta> seems like hard competition for Meego sot sustain..isnt it.?
May 28 21:30:52 <SpeedEvil> In some areas, android, and wp7 are not competitors.
May 28 21:31:00 <SpeedEvil> (with meego)
May 28 21:31:32 <SpeedEvil> Where meego is competing directly against android or WP7 - it's going to be an extremely hard sell to get a maker to come out with them.
May 28 21:31:33 <abhinavmehta> like can I have some example.?
May 28 21:35:50 <abhinavmehta> apparently while I was exploring more about it...couldn't found anything outstanding about it. Pardon if I'm harsh.
May 28 21:36:22 <berndhs> abhinavmehta: what sort of thing would you find outstanding ?
May 28 21:36:36 <berndhs> pardon if I'm harsh, but would you recognize it ?
May 28 21:36:37 <SpeedEvil> Sorry - was away.
May 28 21:36:58 <SpeedEvil> I have little knowledge that is not public.
May 28 21:37:09 <SpeedEvil> If any.
May 28 21:37:40 <SpeedEvil> Nokia will be bringing out a 'meego' device this year. Though this may have relatively little in common with the current meego development effort.
May 28 21:38:07 <abhinavmehta> like some kind of performance boost, or some concurrency model...or some better hardware accleration ...or jsut like anything..?
May 28 21:38:19 <SpeedEvil> Oh.
May 28 21:38:24 <SpeedEvil> No - I mean niche markets.
May 28 21:38:51 <SpeedEvil> If you have a camera, or a car navigation system, or ... - WP7, or android, aren't so good a fit.
May 28 21:39:29 <SpeedEvil> It might be useful to you to have a open-source operating system, more or less 'off-the-shelf' - so you don't have to reinvent large chunks.
May 28 21:40:31 <abhinavmehta> like take ios, its pretty awesome...if you take open source..look for android, having much larger support, take wp7 as one more good example....so whats great about meego..?
May 28 21:41:05 <SpeedEvil> Android in some ways has major issues.
May 28 21:41:11 <abhinavmehta> there are so many embedded kernels...than why someone looks for meego.
May 28 21:41:32 <SpeedEvil> It's not a 'normal' linux stack - which can be handy for some things.
May 28 21:41:41 <abhinavmehta> but given the community support its growing much better than the peers
May 28 21:41:48 <SpeedEvil> Android is linux, but not in the normal sense.
May 28 21:42:24 <dm8tbr> android has a linux kernel, and that's about it
May 28 21:42:30 <abhinavmehta> true...agree about handy as well not a linux....but I was more curious being a developer or being a meego-expert..?
May 28 21:42:49 <pixelgeek> iOS belongs to Apple, Android belongs to Google, WP7 to Microsoft.
May 28 21:42:59 <pixelgeek> MeeGo belongs to the Linux foundation.
May 28 21:44:15 <abhinavmehta> pixelgeek: thats a interesting one. I liked your opinion mate...but again the question holds same....whats the individual growth prespective..?
May 28 21:44:18 <chouchoune> abhinavmehta: I don't understand your point ? You want to know why a developper would choose Meego ?
May 28 21:44:20 <SpeedEvil> abhinavmehta: If you're asking 'will meego be a good career move in the short term for someone to learn, compared to android - probably not.
May 28 21:44:29 <abhinavmehta> chouchoune: yes
May 28 21:44:59 <chouchoune> abhinavmehta: because Qt is just a great framework, the SDK is awesome compared to all the competitors' SDKs
May 28 21:45:08 <abhinavmehta> SpeedEvil: ahaa
May 28 21:45:11 <SpeedEvil> Some people have come through a different route, and programming in a meego environment would be considerably easier than programming in an android one.
May 28 21:45:28 <SpeedEvil> Especially as they may already have core on other platforms which can be simply compiled.
May 28 21:45:28 <abhinavmehta> SpeedEvil: thats a god reason.
May 28 21:45:37 <chouchoune> because you beleave in open source and open development
May 28 21:45:46 <abhinavmehta> chouchoune: :)
May 28 21:46:09 <abhinavmehta> i do believe, but not a stake of own career.
May 28 21:46:15 <chouchoune> because there are great opportunities on some areas like in-car infotainment and set top boxes
May 28 21:46:29 <SpeedEvil> Yeah.
May 28 21:46:34 <chouchoune> because you will let Android and iOS to indians
May 28 21:46:35 <chouchoune> ;)
May 28 21:46:36 <SpeedEvil> The stuff android doesn't work well for.
May 28 21:46:41 <SpeedEvil> I'd loce a meego camera.
May 28 21:46:44 <SpeedEvil> love
May 28 21:47:29 <abhinavmehta> ..okay guys, but could i be adopted to mainstream in embedded devices market near-soon..?
May 28 21:47:58 <SpeedEvil> Yes. in-vehicle and nav devices by small vendors currently using CE - for example.
May 28 21:48:02 <SpeedEvil> The CE licence isn't free.
May 28 21:48:16 <abhinavmehta> SpeedEvil: huhh..thats a point.
May 28 21:48:26 <chouchoune> Telecom Italia already has a Meego set top box
May 28 21:49:04 <abhinavmehta> chouchoune: thats not a big deal to consider as mainstream technology. Thats not really a industry giant.
May 28 21:49:28 <chouchoune> who would be an industry giant ?
May 28 21:49:41 <chouchoune> in that kind of area ?
May 28 21:50:33 <abhinavmehta> like nokia, ericsson, samsung I guess.
May 28 21:50:35 <SpeedEvil> The industry giants are not very likely for first meego devices in numbers.
May 28 21:50:47 <SpeedEvil> It's vendors you've never heard of.
May 28 21:50:57 <abhinavmehta> companies who can drive technology world-wide.
May 28 21:51:05 <chouchoune> I don,'t agree
May 28 21:51:22 <SpeedEvil> Making products that nobody would consider expecting at the moment to put an 'app-store' in.
May 28 21:51:29 <chouchoune> operators sell more than manufacturers in the telecom industry now
May 28 21:51:34 <chouchoune> especially for set top boxes
May 28 21:51:34 <SpeedEvil> There will likely be one or two products from major vendors.
May 28 21:51:48 <abhinavmehta> SpeedEvil: make sense to me...
May 28 21:51:50 <SpeedEvil> And I'm including STBs in 'vendors you've never heard of'
May 28 21:51:55 <chouchoune> every internet operator will launch its own
May 28 21:52:21 <SpeedEvil> Probably not realistically - as some of them also do other consumer focussed things - but most people wouldn't know they made STBs.
May 28 21:54:05 <abhinavmehta> Guys I agree, but as you aptly said above....it wont enjoy market attraction soon near future as compared to rivalries....
May 28 21:54:10 <chouchoune> for example, I live in France, and my internet operator "Free" gave me their Freebox TV which is a set top box : you wouldn't say that it's a big player in the industry, but most probably the biggest set top box reseller in France
May 28 21:55:27 <chouchoune> abhinavmehta: but with other system, you will come to a much more competitive market
May 28 21:55:32 <chouchoune> so it's quite similar
May 28 21:55:56 <chouchoune> in term of employment or business, it's sometime useful to be in a smaller, but growing, market
May 28 21:56:07 <abhinavmehta> chouchoune: thats a good one you mentioned about, but I'm considering picture at large. Given at this point of time I've the luxury to choose the embedded-platform...!
May 28 21:56:17 <SpeedEvil> For a STB maker, CE has royalties - apple won't licence Ios, android has its own performance penalties.
May 28 21:56:46 <abhinavmehta> SpeedEvil: android getting eventually better.
May 28 21:56:50 <SpeedEvil> There is no other large mobile OS.
May 28 21:56:59 <SpeedEvil> Err - embedded OS
May 28 21:58:32 <chouchoune> abhinavmehta: things change really quickly in IT
May 28 21:59:03 <chouchoune> now Android has a large position in term of marketing and so on, and everyone is getting to it
May 28 21:59:27 <chouchoune> so if you choose Android, you will be one of thousands or millions of people working with it
May 28 22:00:14 <abhinavmehta> chouchoune: I'm understanding what you are trying to point at....perhaps you are saying correct.
May 28 22:00:29 <chouchoune> investing in a project like Meego would let you have less competition in a smaller market, but you would be an "expert" later if the trend comes to Meego
May 28 22:00:48 <abhinavmehta> but what if it fails../
May 28 22:00:49 <abhinavmehta> ?
May 28 22:00:53 <chouchoune> when other people would just be "late adopters"
May 28 22:01:30 <chouchoune> if it fails, you have the chance that Meego is built around existing and open technologies
May 28 22:01:42 <chouchoune> if Andoid fails, you just loose everything
May 28 22:02:11 <chouchoune> if Meego fails, you still have Qt experience (and Qt is already quite successfull and multi-platform)
May 28 22:02:11 <abhinavmehta> so..thats what I was thinking about....and thats why I pointed, whats great about Meego in-particular.
May 28 22:02:22 <chouchoune> and all the open ecosystem Meego is based on
May 28 22:02:25 <abhinavmehta> chouchoune: completely agree with you.
May 28 22:04:08 <abhinavmehta> SpeedEvil: chouchoune: Thank you guys; Your thoughts were really very fruitful to me. Infact you helped me to shape my understanding towards Meego, thank you once again. :-)
May 28 22:04:18 <SpeedEvil> np
May 28 22:18:55 <mikeleib> meh.. meego can't fail if the community won't let it ;)
May 28 23:00:37 <Sage_> hmm... the paper that was provided with the EXOPC from Intel AppUp SF sais that it has 2G ram but with top on tablet image I see only 1G (~890M but I guess GPU takes some), was that typo in the paper or is my device partly broken?
May 28 23:02:12 <special> Sage_: google says 2GB
May 28 23:02:25 <special> at least for the retail one
May 28 23:16:58 <sofar> Sage_: it has 2gb, meego kernel has HIGHMEM disabled
May 28 23:19:01 <gabrbedd> sofar Sage_ Looks like Bug 15553
May 28 23:19:04 <MeeGoBot> Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15553 nor, Medium, ---, bintian.wang, RESO FIXED, Meego tablet build DOES NOT actually enable HIGHMEM per dmesg: available mem < 1GB for 2GB physical
May 28 23:19:12 <Sage_> eh
May 28 23:19:21 <sofar> yes
May 28 23:19:23 <gabrbedd> It's marked "RESOLVED FIXED" -- but I don't see where it was resolved.
May 28 23:19:26 <gabrbedd> Or even fixed.
May 28 23:19:28 <gabrbedd> :-)
May 28 23:19:54 <sofar> known issue, architecture has stated they will evaluate it going forward since the performance of enabling HIGHMEN is a significant negative impact
May 28 23:20:21 <Sage_> ah
May 28 23:20:29 <gabrbedd> k, thanks
May 28 23:20:33 <sofar> since there are still only few 1gb+ devices out there, it doesn't make too much sense to enable currently
May 28 23:20:44 <Sage_> ok, because I'm using 1.2.0.90 release and it still has that fault
May 28 23:20:50 <sofar> obviously this will change in the future as more and more devices will be sold with more memory
May 28 23:22:45 <gabrbedd> hrm.... I seem to recall most of my pinetrail devices are 2GB RAM.
May 28 23:23:25 <sofar> it's strange to ship 2gb, it just takes more power :(
May 28 23:23:30 <sofar> 1gb is plenty lol :)
May 28 23:23:36 <Sage_> Does this highmem only apply to 32-bit linux kernel?
May 28 23:24:10 <sofar> AFAIK yes, which is why a 64-bit kernel (with 32bit userspace) is on the long-term roadmap as alternative
May 28 23:24:40 <Sage_> ok :)
May 28 23:25:08 <Sage_> thx for the info sofar
May 28 23:25:44 <sofar> <- auke
May 28 23:25:50 <gabrbedd> sofar: yes, thank you
May 28 23:26:05 <gabrbedd> sofar: btw, is there a story behind the nick?
May 28 23:26:22 <sofar> there is, actually
May 28 23:26:44 <sofar> I stole this from a machine name at the geology faculty i studied at a long time ago
May 28 23:27:18 <sofar> "s.o.f.a.r." is an artifical acoustic channel in the oceans created by thermal gradients natural in the water
May 28 23:27:50 <sofar> when you are in the sofar, you are indetectable by acoustic means (microphone) for anyone above the sofar
May 28 23:28:12 <sofar> whales use the sofar to communicate with other whales sometimes hundreds of miles away
May 28 23:28:27 <sofar> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOFAR_channel
May 28 23:28:52 <gabrbedd> sofar: very cool.  thanks!
May 28 23:29:00 * gabrbedd leaves for a date with the Mrs.
May 28 23:29:00 <sofar> so, when I started to use IRC in '96 or so, and I needed a nick, I couldn't think of anything better, lol
May 28 23:40:52 <delac> sofar: hey, you said that it is possible to prevent meego from installing the bootloader. yes? what kind of setting is it?
May 28 23:43:58 <delac> is it the last phase in the installation (last image here: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/meego/install/ ) And if so, what should i check or delete or what?
May 28 23:44:14 <delac> sofar: ^
May 28 23:47:20 <CosmoHill> cyas
May 28 23:48:22 <npm> Sage_: the updated exopc tablet i got at the conf seems to have that issue: Mem:    892808k total,   813740k used,    79068k free,       16k buffers
May 28 23:48:56 <npm> ^^ 2.6.38.2-8.12-adaptation-pinetrail #1 SMP PREEMPT Mon May 16 19:10:07 UTC 2011 i686 i686 i386
May 29 00:11:12 * npm crosses fingers, updates repos on tablet to http://download.meego.com/live/MeeGo:/1.2:/oss/standard/
May 29 00:11:40 <npm> 149 packages later....
May 29 00:15:36 <npm> are all the other language translation packs needed for english speakers, e.g.  meego-ux-translations-fi ??
May 29 00:18:31 <npm> given the speeds i'm seeing, i shouldna given out that URL :-)
May 29 00:18:39 <npm> either that or this tablet's networking is slow
May 29 00:19:26 <npm>   Retrieving: emacs-common-23.2-8.66.i586.rpm [64% (108.4 KiB/s)]
May 29 00:24:49 <npm> actually, it was other apps running
May 29 00:26:02 <npm> it's better now: Retrieving: meego-app-browser-12.0.712.0~2011WW22.1-1.12.i586.rpm [2% (199.6 KiB/s)]
May 29 00:27:37 <sofar> delac: those screens are for meego-1.1
May 29 00:27:53 <npm> given the apps i'm about to drop on to here (via http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Lem ) i'll take this over an ipad anyday
May 29 00:28:01 <sofar> delac: the 1.2 installer has a screen where you can skip that step entirely afaik
May 29 00:28:07 <npm> esp given the price
May 29 00:28:46 <sofar> npm: all the tablet language packs are optional and can be skipped
May 29 00:29:07 <npm> they were preinstalled so i will start deleting
May 29 00:29:33 <sofar> they're not large
May 29 00:29:58 <npm> hopefully the finnish is compressed :-)
May 29 00:30:17 <npm> s/Finish
May 29 00:30:28 <sofar> they're just .qm files, so, not gigantic anyway
May 29 00:32:02 <npm> oh hi Auke
May 29 00:32:09 <sofar> hey
May 29 00:33:08 <npm> i'm also crossing fingers that about:sandbox is magically fixed in the updates
May 29 00:33:49 <npm> btw, does this merit a but report: gtk-update-icon-cache: No theme index file.
May 29 00:33:57 <npm> (when installing or updating emacs)
May 29 00:34:12 <npm> because you can't have a tablet without emacs
May 29 00:34:14 <npm> :-)
May 29 00:34:14 <sofar> sure, rpm %post errors need to be fixed
May 29 00:34:52 * npm doesn't run a terminal, runs emacs in remote X window and then M-x shell
May 29 00:37:09 <npm> sofar -- guess i'll be busy with a few bug reports then :-)
May 29 00:38:43 <npm> that's a new one: There are some running programs that use files deleted by recent upgrade. You may wish to restart some of them. Run 'zypper ps' to list these programs.
May 29 00:38:54 * npm resolves with init 3 ; init 5
May 29 00:39:18 <sofar> libzypp update will post that
May 29 00:39:22 <sofar> are you following Trunk?
May 29 00:39:32 <sofar> most of the time it's not a big deal
May 29 00:39:37 <npm> wow looks cool
May 29 00:39:47 <npm> totally different look
May 29 00:40:01 <npm> not trunk because tha'ts 1.3 right?
May 29 00:40:07 <sofar> yes
May 29 00:40:31 <npm> baseurl=http://download.meego.com/live/MeeGo:/1.2:/oss/standard/
May 29 00:40:53 <npm> which seemed like it had a few weeks of updates over my may 16 tablet
May 29 00:41:04 <npm> seems to handle rotation better
May 29 00:42:12 <npm> doh: "you are not adequately sandboxed"
May 29 00:46:52 * npm wonders how long i'm supposed to stare at this flashing cursor
May 29 00:47:47 <npm> a long time but i'm glad i have patience
May 29 00:48:01 <npm> the "live update" worked for me
May 29 00:50:00 <npm> and now it does exactly what my netbook does on all qt media players.
May 29 01:46:18 <Sage_> sofar: ah, didn't know that you are auke. Good to know that as well :)
May 29 01:47:29 * sofar lurks
May 29 01:47:31 <Sage_> btw, bug 16882 is annoying in tablet ux and it seems kernel is missing some API's for backlight control based on the comments.
May 29 01:47:35 <MeeGoBot> Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=16882 nor, Medium, ---, kevron_m_rees, ASSI, There is no way to adjust the backlight in MeeGo UX
May 29 01:48:04 <sofar> someone just needs to write a control panel plugin
May 29 01:48:06 * Sage_ slept 2 hours and woke up. jetlag is really annoying 04:46 AM here ;/
May 29 01:55:16 <Sage_> Anyone from devel:ux:handset team ( http://build.meego.com/project/users?project=devel%3Aux%3Ahandset ) team here who could handle couple of my submission to that and forward those to MeeGo:1.2:oss:Testing and Trunk:Testing? Eventough the Handset UX isn't the priority we should fix the bugs from it as there is patches for those in N900 DE already that didn't make it for 1.2 before it froze.
May 29 01:58:07 * Sage_ goes to bed and tries to get some more sleep.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun May 29 02:59:58 2011