**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jun 06 02:59:57 2011
Jun 06 03:00:23 <wmarone_> gabrbedd: Novomok ported MeeGo to the Nook Color
Jun 06 03:01:16 <gabrbedd> Ah.
Jun 06 03:01:34 <berndhs> very commendable
Jun 06 03:16:06 <GeneralAntilles> wmarone_, well, yeah, but I figure there must be some way we can benefit from it. :P
Jun 06 03:16:13 <GeneralAntilles> No source, though. :<
Jun 06 03:17:23 <wmarone_> yeah
Jun 06 03:17:32 <wmarone_> doesn't do us any good unless they release at least the kernel sources
Jun 06 03:17:59 <wmarone_> since I'm assuming that means they ported the necessary (non-SGX) bits to 2.6.35 or 2.6.37
Jun 06 03:18:14 <wmarone_> or (worse) backported stuff to 2.6.29/32
Jun 06 03:19:41 <GeneralAntilles> Better damn release them.
Jun 06 03:22:59 <wmarone_> GeneralAntilles: are you on twitter?
Jun 06 03:27:00 <GeneralAntilles> wmarone_: GeneralAntilles, yes.
Jun 06 04:05:12 <bergie> thanks, Alison_Chaiken
Jun 06 04:06:47 <Alison_Chaiken> bergie, your writing is convincing and credible because you don't claim that success is assured or that MeeGo is the answer to all problems.
Jun 06 04:10:02 <GeneralAntilles> That would just be a sign of brain damage.
Jun 06 04:10:07 <GeneralAntilles> 'morning, bergie. :)
Jun 06 04:11:00 <akk> I'm curious about the "MeeGo Community Apps" mentioned -- I know about OBS but is there more info on the web frontend and client application?
Jun 06 04:11:24 <akk> (mentioned in bergie's article)
Jun 06 04:14:55 <smoku> akk, http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2011/meego-meeting.2011-02-01-19.59.html
Jun 06 04:16:33 <akk> smoku: So, it doesn't actually exist, but it was decided in February that eventually there should be one?
Jun 06 04:17:59 <smoku> There are some efforts on the backend and some hacking on the frontend side.  But you need to ask the people involved for details. I think Dawn knows more.
Jun 06 04:19:09 <akk> So bergie might be jumping the gun a little in saying it already exists.
Jun 06 04:22:41 <smoku> "the upcoming" means exactly opposite ;P
Jun 06 04:25:40 <GonzoTheGreat> I posted a thing about the outdated front page of meego.com in the forum, but no action. Who can change that page?
Jun 06 04:26:15 <dm8tbr> GonzoTheGreat: the conference still up there?
Jun 06 04:26:34 * dm8tbr checks and LOLs hard
Jun 06 04:27:15 <GonzoTheGreat> "Register for the MeeGo conference today!"
Jun 06 04:29:17 <Stskeeps> GonzoTheGreat: bugs.meego.com is a good start :P
Jun 06 04:29:20 <Stskeeps> or poking DawnFoster
Jun 06 04:30:48 * dm8tbr is filing a bug at bugs.meego.com right now
Jun 06 04:30:53 * GonzoTheGreat thinks yet another registration page
Jun 06 04:31:31 <GonzoTheGreat> thanks dm8tbr
Jun 06 04:34:54 <dm8tbr> bug 18613
Jun 06 04:34:57 <MeeGoBot> Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18613 cri, Undecided, ---, michael.r.shaver, NEW, meego.com still shows SF Conference registration on front page
Jun 06 04:35:22 <dm8tbr> GonzoTheGreat: your meego.com account should work IIRC
Jun 06 04:36:20 <GonzoTheGreat> it does. It was premature frustration
Jun 06 04:36:32 <GonzoTheGreat> yet another login page...
Jun 06 04:36:39 <dm8tbr> yep
Jun 06 04:36:46 <Stskeeps> at least we have fairly working SSU, compared to maemo.org
Jun 06 04:37:25 <dm8tbr> btw: you're not the first one to notice/complain - Others did so before here, including me.
Jun 06 04:38:05 <dm8tbr> Stskeeps: well, waaaay to go if meego wants to be "that linux based BUSINESS thing". just saying
Jun 06 04:38:21 <GonzoTheGreat> And not integrated with the main meego page...
Jun 06 04:38:37 <Stskeeps> dm8tbr: unupdated webpage sucks, agreed
Jun 06 04:38:40 <GonzoTheGreat> not even a back link
Jun 06 04:38:41 <Stskeeps> dm8tbr: in fact, i advocate razing most of it
Jun 06 04:38:42 <Stskeeps> :P
Jun 06 04:39:05 <dm8tbr> Stskeeps: for more openness? SCNR *duck* *run*
Jun 06 04:39:18 <Stskeeps> dm8tbr: stating some things up front would be good
Jun 06 04:39:21 <Stskeeps> SCNR?
Jun 06 04:39:23 <iekku> good morning
Jun 06 04:39:28 <Stskeeps> morn iekku
Jun 06 04:39:34 <dm8tbr> sorry, couldn't resist = SCNR
Jun 06 04:39:45 <Stskeeps> ah
Jun 06 04:39:57 * Stskeeps is so on the wrong side of his morning
Jun 06 04:40:03 <iekku> Stskeeps, coming here tomorrow, i assume?
Jun 06 04:40:44 * GonzoTheGreat is on the wrong side of his afternoon
Jun 06 04:40:48 <Stskeeps> iekku: flying at around 13.20 from here
Jun 06 04:41:16 <iekku> Stskeeps, ok :)
Jun 06 04:44:32 <DawnFoster> Stskeeps: hmmm?
Jun 06 04:45:09 <Stskeeps> DawnFoster: people noting meego.com frontpage looks out of date, due to "Register for the meego conference today" etc
Jun 06 04:45:28 <Stskeeps> (bug 18613)
Jun 06 04:45:31 <MeeGoBot> Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18613 cri, Undecided, ---, michael.r.shaver, NEW, meego.com still shows SF Conference registration on front page
Jun 06 04:45:39 <DawnFoster> Stskeeps: ah, we're going to replace it with a watch the videos graphic tomorrow when the rest of the videos go up
Jun 06 04:45:44 <Stskeeps> ah, good
Jun 06 04:49:04 <bergie> akk: http://apps-beta.meego.com/applications/
Jun 06 05:23:30 <Stskeeps> morn andre__
Jun 06 05:23:40 <andre__> heja Stskeeps!
Jun 06 06:15:52 <Venemo_N900> good morning MeeGoists :)
Jun 06 06:19:27 <iekku> good morning Venemo_N900 :)
Jun 06 06:20:01 <Venemo_N900> :)
Jun 06 06:34:56 <Santosh> Hello.. i was working in meego Netbook and i had socket connection issues and I reboot meego..
Jun 06 06:35:09 <Santosh> now it is not loading the UI
Jun 06 06:35:25 <Santosh> if i check /var/log/messages it shows..
Jun 06 06:35:55 <Santosh> GLIB-CRITICAL Could nt create files
Jun 06 06:36:03 <Santosh> could not connect to socket
Jun 06 06:36:05 <Santosh> etc
Jun 06 06:36:29 <Santosh> what is wrong.. can somebody help to fix the issue pls?
Jun 06 06:37:20 <Santosh> Also it switches between terminal window, to UI.. (C+A+F7). .so i guess the init script runs recursively
Jun 06 06:37:35 <Santosh> however fails to load UI due to some permission / misconfiguration//
Jun 06 06:37:37 <Santosh> ??
Jun 06 06:38:31 <Venemo_N900> I've always wanted to ask, how can someone obtain one of those ideapads that were given away in the meego conf?
Jun 06 06:38:51 <dm8tbr> you can buy them, I hear
Jun 06 06:39:05 <dm8tbr> or could, dunno if that's still possible
Jun 06 06:39:37 <dm8tbr> alternative: attend app-up event, push button, receive bacon^wExoPC
Jun 06 06:41:20 <Venemo_N900> I didn't hear as much good about the exopc as I did about the ideapad
Jun 06 06:41:43 <Venemo_N900> "you can buy them" - if I could, I wouldn't be asking
Jun 06 06:41:56 <Venemo_N900> where is this app-up event going to be?
Jun 06 06:44:18 <Santosh> Hi has somebody come across the issue i just discussed? any clue?
Jun 06 06:49:48 <tomeu> Santosh: you have to provide more detailed information if anyone is going to be able to help you
Jun 06 06:51:10 <Santosh> tomeu, I have pasted /var/log/messages here http://pastebin.com/6YSnFjkQ
Jun 06 06:53:24 <tomeu> Santosh: looks like the kind of problems one gets after running trying to run too many things as root
Jun 06 06:53:53 <Santosh> tomeu, ok i ran empathy as root in my previous session
Jun 06 06:54:13 <Santosh> tomeu, how can i fix this?
Jun 06 06:54:45 <tomeu> you will have to find which directories have the wrong permissions
Jun 06 06:54:51 <tomeu> faster may be reinstalling
Jun 06 06:55:10 <Santosh> oops
Jun 06 06:55:27 <tomeu> communication with the X server and the dbus buses is through sockets, that's why you get those errors later
Jun 06 06:55:38 <tomeu> it may be in /var/run, not sure
Jun 06 06:57:18 <Santosh> i have created sockets for my programs in /tmp and they have full +x permissions .. could this be an issue?
Jun 06 06:58:25 <tomeu> don't see why, but in the process you may have changed the permissions of /tmp itself?
Jun 06 06:59:41 <tomeu> on fedora:
Jun 06 06:59:43 <tomeu> $ ls -dl /tmp
Jun 06 06:59:45 <tomeu> drwxrwxrwt. 24 root root 4096 Jun  6 08:56 /tmp
Jun 06 07:00:31 <Santosh> in meego i get drwx-----T for /tmp
Jun 06 07:02:02 <tomeu> that could be causing those problems
Jun 06 07:02:26 <Santosh> yea in another meego m/c i checked it(/tmp) is as good as fedora
Jun 06 07:06:17 <Santosh> is there a way to fix it?
Jun 06 07:07:21 <Santosh> cool
Jun 06 07:07:32 <Santosh> thot chmod may not work
Jun 06 07:07:40 <Santosh> but it actually worked
Jun 06 07:07:50 <Santosh> now the UI is up
Jun 06 07:08:14 <Santosh> thanks for quick response and wise clue tomeu
Jun 06 07:08:20 <Santosh> you saved 2 hrs for me
Jun 06 07:08:39 <tomeu> yw
Jun 06 07:10:03 <thiago_home> /tmp is usually 1777
Jun 06 07:10:08 <thiago_home> anything else is usually very wrong
Jun 06 07:12:38 <Santosh> ok..
Jun 06 07:49:45 <psycho_oreos> Stskeeps, ping
Jun 06 07:50:06 <Stskeeps> psycho_oreos: pong
Jun 06 07:50:59 <psycho_oreos> Stskeeps, forgot to remind you lmao, umm you need to add *!*@freenode/staff/* to ops list
Jun 06 07:52:12 <Stskeeps> done, at least for here
Jun 06 07:52:45 <Stskeeps> so who do i poke about getting #meego-devel under the regular namespace ownership? :P
Jun 06 07:53:37 <psycho_oreos> think you need group registration or something, not quite sure how it works to be frank
Jun 06 07:53:50 <Stskeeps> we have one
Jun 06 07:53:56 <Stskeeps> and i'm group contact
Jun 06 07:54:47 <psycho_oreos> here's a staff :D though I think you need to also fill out some forms as well or something, again I can't be too sure
Jun 06 07:55:13 <psycho_oreos> I'm sure it all works on the same principles as you having ownership of other chans
Jun 06 07:55:28 <Stskeeps> tomaw_: we've unsuccessfully been able to contact the owner of #meego-devel (AWOL) in order to bring it under our irc guidelines - i'm group contact for #meego-*, anything we can get done about this?
Jun 06 08:07:48 * Jaffa thanks GAN900 for helping to the majority of this week's MWKN apart with me only doing most of the front page
Jun 06 08:08:26 <alterego> Heh
Jun 06 08:12:13 * RST38h moos at Jaffa
Jun 06 08:12:23 <RST38h> alterego: EHLO
Jun 06 08:12:41 <thiago_home> 250-Nice to meet you
Jun 06 08:14:25 <vldcnst> epic
Jun 06 08:15:49 <alterego> Heh RST38h
Jun 06 08:16:42 <arfoll> has anyone opened up the exopc? I'd like to know if the SSD is removable and what interface it uses...
Jun 06 08:17:59 <alterego> Yes, it's shockingly easy to take the exo apartt
Jun 06 08:18:30 <alterego> And the ssd uses a standard mini pci e I believe.
Jun 06 08:19:50 <arfoll> alterego, awesome thanks, btw at the same time you know if there is a broadcom crystalhd in there?
Jun 06 08:20:08 <arfoll> i forgot to do an lspci before I lent it
Jun 06 08:20:12 <alterego> Yes there is
Jun 06 08:20:22 <alterego> I installed the drivers for it the other day.
Jun 06 08:20:29 <arfoll> awesome :-) wonder why thats not in the spec sheet
Jun 06 08:21:05 <arfoll> ooh i had an rpm for them somewhere
Jun 06 08:21:08 <arfoll> on OBS
Jun 06 08:21:36 <alterego> Probably because it doesn't work under meego or something
Jun 06 08:21:59 <arfoll> mmh, it does though and the gstreamer bcmdec element is actually quite good
Jun 06 08:32:06 <lcuk> morning \o
Jun 06 08:32:37 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: Thanks
Jun 06 08:33:04 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: You've missed the commentary on #maemo :-)
Jun 06 08:33:50 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: i am planning to be me, an airplane, cheap airline wine in some hours, not even abill_uk can bring me down
Jun 06 08:33:58 <Jaffa> :-)
Jun 06 08:34:56 <RST38h> Stskeeps: Even if he is wielding an ice pick?
Jun 06 08:41:49 <lcuk> heh maemo bugjar showing "optify liqbase" bug :)
Jun 06 09:16:52 <lardman> morning
Jun 06 09:18:04 <lcuk> morning lardman \o
Jun 06 09:18:53 <lardman> morning lcuk
Jun 06 09:20:58 * lcuk looking at mic2 today
Jun 06 09:21:25 * lardman looking at removals firms today
Jun 06 09:21:49 <lcuk> lardman, moving?
Jun 06 09:22:26 <lcuk> or just ordering a summers worth of bacon?
Jun 06 09:22:56 <lardman> moving
Jun 06 09:23:03 <lardman> bbiab meeting
Jun 06 09:26:17 <lbt> are the videos due up today
Jun 06 09:28:45 <lardman> false alarm
Jun 06 09:29:06 <lardman> lcuk: yeah moving to a house rather than a flat, better for the neighbours with the new arrival in Augu
Jun 06 09:29:08 <lardman> st
Jun 06 09:36:29 * lardman marvels at how busy #maemo is today
Jun 06 09:40:17 <alterego> At last, we have meego-terminal :)
Jun 06 09:41:54 <Stskeeps> now for a qml version ;p
Jun 06 09:43:16 <alterego> Hah,
Jun 06 09:43:20 <alterego> Don't tempt me :P
Jun 06 09:43:33 <alterego> The source containes Python bindings, which is quite cool.
Jun 06 09:48:13 <Jaffa> alterego: Is it a fresh one - or an opening of an already existant one?
Jun 06 09:48:38 <Jaffa> Hmm, Ruslan Mstoi works for Nokia
Jun 06 09:49:02 <Jaffa> Looks like the Harmattan one
Jun 06 09:49:07 <mikhas> Jaffa, yes
Jun 06 09:49:57 <mikhas> Jaffa, well yes - it's the Harmattan terminal, made available for MeeGo
Jun 06 09:56:40 <alterego> Jaffa: opening of Harmattan yeah
Jun 06 10:13:12 <w00t> alterego: where is it! :)
Jun 06 10:13:18 * w00t wants it on his exo, stat
Jun 06 10:16:27 <alterego> w00t: https://gitorious.org/meego-terminal
Jun 06 10:23:30 <niala> avec votre cityville de m... on voit pas les videos on voit pas les messages
Jun 06 10:24:49 <niala> ooops sorry
Jun 06 10:24:51 <andre__> niala, english please...
Jun 06 10:24:53 <chouchoune> niala: quoi ?
Jun 06 10:24:55 <chouchoune> ah ;)
Jun 06 10:24:57 <niala> wrong windows
Jun 06 10:38:20 <w00t> alterego: thanks, got it working too
Jun 06 10:38:24 <w00t> :)
Jun 06 10:44:16 <alterego> Nice :)
Jun 06 10:44:19 <alterego> Does it work well?
Jun 06 10:46:50 <w00t> alterego: yes
Jun 06 10:47:03 <mikhas> w00t, you're using tablet UX, dont you?
Jun 06 10:47:09 <w00t> mikhas: yup
Jun 06 10:47:14 <mikhas> because there are some issues still with N900 DE
Jun 06 10:47:39 <mikhas> and there's a compositor bug for the first touch event going through the VKB ...
Jun 06 10:47:46 <w00t> ah, fun
Jun 06 10:48:11 <mikhas> kuzak, for you: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17678 <3
Jun 06 10:48:14 <MeeGoBot> Bug 17678 nor, Undecided, ---, x2rich, NEW, First touch on virtual keyboard (after a VKB request) always goes to application
Jun 06 10:48:18 <w00t> the only problem i've seen with vkb on the tablet is meego-im-uiserver or whatever it is occasionally not being running
Jun 06 10:48:43 <mikhas> w00t, you mean: it crashed and wasn't restarted? ;-)
Jun 06 10:48:55 <w00t> could be a crash, perhaps
Jun 06 10:48:55 <mikhas> (and no traces of crash available)
Jun 06 10:49:04 <w00t> but it's only on boot, like, it'll either work or not work
Jun 06 11:24:43 <Greatgib> <gabrbedd>: for vkb on the netbook, you need to download and install meegotouch-inputmethodbridge 2.3 . There is fixed the keyboard not launching because of the dbus api break
Jun 06 11:25:03 <Greatgib> in meego 1.2 its still inputmethodbridge 2.2 so not enough
Jun 06 11:35:08 <lbt> Stskeeps: thoughts on #meego-infra room - people from IT/RE and other system areas can hang out there and discuss open dev/sysadmin
Jun 06 11:35:21 <lbt> mmm actually I think he's on a plane
Jun 06 11:40:14 <Natanaiel> is there any package on meego to get some screenshots?
Jun 06 11:43:02 <lcuk> Natanaiel, which UX?
Jun 06 11:43:39 <lcuk>       As meego (ssh meego@192.168.2.15):
Jun 06 11:43:39 <lcuk>       export DISPLAY=:0 && gst-launch-0.10 ximagesrc num-buffers=1 ! ffmpegcolorspace ! pngenc ! filesink location=screenshot_`date +%Y%m%d_%H%M%S`.png
Jun 06 11:43:39 <lcuk>       In computer:
Jun 06 11:43:39 <lcuk>       scp meego@192.168.2.15:/home/meego/screenshot*.png ~/Desktop
Jun 06 11:44:08 <Natanaiel> handset
Jun 06 11:44:15 <lcuk> try that ^
Jun 06 11:44:44 <lcuk> if you ssh in as it says then paste that command, it should take a datestamped screenshot
Jun 06 11:44:58 <lcuk> the second command then copies them to your local desktop
Jun 06 11:45:00 <gabrbedd> Greatgib: Yes, araujo told me the same thing... and that worked.  I had to grab it from the 1.3 branch.
Jun 06 11:46:04 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: or you cheat, setup x forwarding, login from the wetab to your desktop, and run the snapshot program there, using your wetab as the DISPLAY
Jun 06 11:46:08 <gabrbedd> Greatgib: ...but that was mostly part of trying to grok the protocol. :-)
Jun 06 11:48:23 <GonzoTheGreat> hi guys. Just out of interest. I have a chumby classic standing around. Is meego a possibility on it?
Jun 06 11:48:51 <Greatgib> gabrbedd: i even don't understand why that changed that way and they didn't took care of having an important piece of code like the vkb not working anymore
Jun 06 11:49:45 <Natanaiel> thx lcuk
Jun 06 11:50:31 <Greatgib> gabrbedd: but today it is worse, the keyboard overhide windows instead of resizing them so you could not see what is under. There is not button, to close it. And I didn't found anything to tell the vkb when i want it to be enabled and when not. (even if it is not automatic, I would be happy to enable/disable it myself when switching my ideapad from netbook to tablet :s)
Jun 06 11:51:20 <gabrbedd> Greatgib: When the vkb appears, you can hide it by swiping it down.
Jun 06 11:51:43 <gabrbedd> Greatgib: I've found that the swipe has to be from top to bottom (all the way), and moderately fast.
Jun 06 11:51:46 <lcuk> whack a mole
Jun 06 11:52:11 <Greatgib> gabrbedd: ? :| so, it is as simple as that.
Jun 06 11:52:39 <Greatgib> thanks for the tips, it is really not evident :p
Jun 06 12:01:16 <lcuk> A different kind of meego meetup: 'MeeGo to Manchester IntelRemastered Exhibition'      http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=22150#post22150
Jun 06 13:59:33 <Stskeeps> lbt, will give thoughts when back at hotel later tonight
Jun 06 13:59:50 <lbt> OK
Jun 06 14:40:24 <dyrvere> know a good ppa with VLC 1.1.10?
Jun 06 14:54:18 <gabrbedd> dyrvere: maybe search build.meego.com and build.pub.meego.com.  Those are the ppa-like things in meego.
Jun 06 14:54:29 <dyrvere> thank you :)
Jun 06 14:57:09 <dyrvere> hm, seems all of them are still missing dependencies.
Jun 06 15:00:11 <gabrbedd> dyrvere: If they built... then their deps were met.  Maybe look to see if there were other projects/repos that they are referencing.
Jun 06 15:25:16 <CosmoHill> me in three months >>> http://www.applegeeks.com/lite/index.php?aglitecomic=2006-06-23
Jun 06 15:25:42 <SpeedEvil> :)
Jun 06 15:26:22 <berndhs> sure, its funny now...
Jun 06 15:26:40 <mwichmann> too true
Jun 06 15:27:31 <Stskeeps> i've yet to be asked about my degree diploma
Jun 06 15:28:15 <mwichmann> got a friend who could find work when she needed, then went back to finish off her degree, and now can find nothing because it's always "you're overqualified"
Jun 06 15:29:16 <dyrvere> mwichmann: Yes, it's a weird world we live in.
Jun 06 15:29:38 <dyrvere> got a sister in the same position.
Jun 06 15:32:21 * CosmoHill needs to go looking for jobs
Jun 06 15:34:11 <chouchoune> haha
Jun 06 15:34:37 <chouchoune> In France we even have laws telling that with a degree, we dfon't have the right to be paid lower that xxx euros
Jun 06 15:35:16 <dyrvere> that's why I don
Jun 06 15:35:24 <berndhs> i'm sure even in France you have the right to be paid 0 euros without a job :P
Jun 06 15:35:27 <dyrvere> 't even finish my degree.
Jun 06 15:35:51 <chouchoune> yes, but I can't be paid, let's say, 1200 euros with a job ;)
Jun 06 15:36:37 <chouchoune> and I can't earn 0 euros, even without a job ;)
Jun 06 15:36:49 <chouchoune> state will give you some money
Jun 06 15:36:56 <berndhs> for how long ?
Jun 06 15:37:02 <chouchoune> But that's quite good IMHO
Jun 06 15:37:14 <CosmoHill> you mean job seekers allowance
Jun 06 15:37:19 <chouchoune> for ever
Jun 06 15:37:37 <CosmoHill> they pay you X ammount to keep you alive pretty much until you find a job
Jun 06 15:37:41 <berndhs> that's now why people get advanced degrees, to live on welfare
Jun 06 15:37:46 <chouchoune> CosmoHill: that's it
Jun 06 15:38:03 <chouchoune> but that's really little
Jun 06 15:38:10 <chouchoune> not enough to live
Jun 06 15:38:13 <CosmoHill> there's been talk of making people on welfare work for it
Jun 06 15:38:15 <chouchoune> just to survive
Jun 06 15:38:28 <chouchoune> and I'm even not sure they can survive with that amount
Jun 06 15:38:48 <CosmoHill> what you need to do is get a kid, then you get a house too
Jun 06 15:38:59 <chouchoune> mmmhhh
Jun 06 15:39:01 <Arkkis> Any help here with N900 Meego problem?
Jun 06 15:39:01 <chouchoune> ?
Jun 06 15:39:50 <CosmoHill> Arkkis: someone should be able to help, ask your question
Jun 06 15:39:59 <chouchoune> berndhs: it's better to work for welfare that to work to survive
Jun 06 15:40:13 <chouchoune> s/that/than/
Jun 06 15:40:13 <infobot> chouchoune meant: berndhs: it's better to work for welfare than to work to survive
Jun 06 15:40:46 <Arkkis> I tried to flash meego to my N900 but it kernel panicked.... What should I do now because PC or flasher cannot see the phone?
Jun 06 15:40:49 <chouchoune> I mean, it's good not to let people die on the streets
Jun 06 15:42:08 <andre__> Arkkis, how exactly did you flash it?
Jun 06 15:42:32 <Arkkis> With this http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/EMMC
Jun 06 15:43:25 <Arkkis> The main problem is, that flasher stucks now to Wating for device part.. :s
Jun 06 15:43:37 <Arkkis> *Waiting
Jun 06 15:43:48 <Stskeeps> Arkkis: pull battery
Jun 06 15:43:59 <Arkkis> Yep, then?
Jun 06 15:44:04 <Stskeeps> start flasher, plug in usb both ends, put in battery
Jun 06 15:44:48 <Stskeeps> bbl
Jun 06 15:45:21 <Arkkis> then?
Jun 06 15:46:22 <dyrvere> does it keep working?
Jun 06 15:46:39 <dyrvere> or back to waiting for device?
Jun 06 15:46:39 <Arkkis> Still waiting... Phone does not do anything
Jun 06 15:47:02 <dyrvere> what OS are you doing this from?
Jun 06 15:47:06 <CosmoHill> did you restart flasher before you connected it?
Jun 06 15:47:12 <Arkkis> Ubuntu 11
Jun 06 15:47:18 <Arkkis> yes
Jun 06 15:49:40 <Zahra> Arkkis: did u close the back cover?
Jun 06 15:50:43 <Arkkis> no
Jun 06 15:51:45 <Arkkis> when I take battery off, do it put backcover on again???
Jun 06 15:53:51 <Zahra> Arkkis: back cover must be closed to boot from MMC
Jun 06 15:54:12 * CosmoHill is in a good mood but also threw his phone across the room almost hitting his laptop
Jun 06 15:54:27 <Arkkis> MMC is memory card?
Jun 06 15:54:41 <Zahra> Arkkis: yes
Jun 06 15:54:47 <Arkkis> I do not use one
Jun 06 15:54:54 <alterego> CosmoHill: I did that a year ago, scratched my laptop ..
Jun 06 15:55:04 <alterego> made a nice little scratch in the panel :(
Jun 06 15:56:28 <CosmoHill> I'm pissed off with being charged for texts that people aren't getting
Jun 06 15:56:53 <CosmoHill> people that are important to me cos I send them texts and cos they don't get them they don't text back and makes me think that they're ignoring me
Jun 06 15:58:28 <Arkkis> Do I have to get MMC if I'm going to reflash that stupid banana :P ?
Jun 06 16:00:10 <Arkkis> No one?
Jun 06 16:02:32 <Arkkis> Guess not : <
Jun 06 16:03:02 <clbr> Arkkis: keep trying. remembering how to flash newer maemo versions to the phone the exact sequence of flasher/plugin in usb etc. matters
Jun 06 16:03:53 <Arkkis> I've tried since last night : <
Jun 06 16:04:52 <Arkkis> It just doesn't do anything when plugging it to PC
Jun 06 16:06:04 <clbr> check the cables?
Jun 06 16:06:26 <Arkkis> Cable is fine because it worked yesterday fine...
Jun 06 16:06:44 <Arkkis> And yellow light lits when plugged
Jun 06 16:06:50 <Arkkis> but that's it..
Jun 06 16:43:02 <Arkkis> Someone else would have surrendered already....
Jun 06 16:43:11 <Arkkis> Still have hope for that phone . D
Jun 06 17:00:04 <Arkkis> GOT IT FINALLY!
Jun 06 17:00:15 <dyrvere> Congrats Arkkis
Jun 06 17:00:43 <Arkkis> This was the key part: There's an exceedingly short moment where the flasher can detect the N900 and do its cold-flash thing.
Jun 06 17:01:28 <Arkkis> it was like half of second
Jun 06 17:02:31 <dyrvere> so, is your N900 any better with Meego now? :)
Jun 06 17:02:49 <Arkkis> Didn't get that yet ; D
Jun 06 17:02:57 <Arkkis> My phone was stuck in kernel panic
Jun 06 17:03:05 <thiago> hold the U key down
Jun 06 17:03:13 <Arkkis> So, can you tell me, is there any way to install meego WITHOUT MMC
Jun 06 17:03:18 <Arkkis> U key did not help :)
Jun 06 17:03:39 <Arkkis> I had to cold flash
Jun 06 17:04:47 <Arkkis> So? Do I absolutely need MMC to install Meego?
Jun 06 17:04:55 <thiago> the NAND is too small
Jun 06 17:04:59 <thiago> MeeGo won't fit
Jun 06 17:05:12 <thiago> you need to use the MMC or an SD card
Jun 06 17:05:29 <Arkkis> what eMMC means then?
Jun 06 17:05:50 <thiago> "Embedded MultiMediaCard"
Jun 06 17:06:45 <Arkkis> But there is lots of internal memory?
Jun 06 17:06:53 <thiago> the eMMC on the N900 is 32 GB
Jun 06 17:07:00 <thiago> the NAND is only 256 MB
Jun 06 17:07:02 <Arkkis> http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/EMMC
Jun 06 17:07:43 <Arkkis> Didn't get that idea right yesterday :)
Jun 06 17:07:53 <Arkkis> So it can't boot from internal memory?
Jun 06 17:08:14 <thiago> you can use the internal memory for somethings (like the /boot partition), but you need the eMMC for the rest of the system
Jun 06 17:08:58 <Arkkis> internal memory = eMMC?
Jun 06 17:09:09 <Arkkis> Pretty confused right now...
Jun 06 17:09:51 <Arkkis> NAND = internal memory?
Jun 06 17:09:51 <Arkkis> If you spoke of it...
Jun 06 17:10:08 <Arkkis> And memory card replaces NAND?
Jun 06 17:10:22 <thiago> internal memory = NAND
Jun 06 17:11:08 <thiago> the N900 has three different storages;
Jun 06 17:11:18 <thiago> the internal memory (NAND), the eMMC and an SD card
Jun 06 17:12:03 <lcuk> and a partridge in a pear tree.
Jun 06 17:12:21 <Arkkis> Need to get SD then : <
Jun 06 17:12:26 <lcuk> (though historically these have been eaten and not used for data storage
Jun 06 17:13:05 <clbr> Arkkis: if possible buy a Class 6 Micro SDHC card. class 6 is expensive, though
Jun 06 17:14:52 <Arkkis> So what is the point of this method http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/EMMC ?
Jun 06 17:15:04 <Arkkis> If Meego loads from the SD
Jun 06 17:15:26 <Arkkis> Or does it...
Jun 06 17:15:28 <Arkkis> haha
Jun 06 17:15:46 <Arkkis> No... If it's installed to emmc then it is also loaded from there..
Jun 06 17:15:54 <Arkkis> So what is the point of fast SD?
Jun 06 17:16:58 <clbr> the point is, you leave the n900 with maemo installed and just put meego onto the sd card
Jun 06 17:17:44 <Arkkis> Why to do that :) ? Is Meego faster installed within emmc
Jun 06 17:18:28 <Arkkis> *Isn't
Jun 06 17:18:39 <lcuk> Arkkis, at present there are 2 issues prevenint developers from full complete meego day to day, those are update availability and data importing
Jun 06 17:19:07 <pancake> yo
Jun 06 17:19:18 <pancake> im trying to build libmeegotouch-git, but looks broken
Jun 06 17:19:21 <lcuk> so the apps are not end user ready and evolving each day, but there is no complete mechanism to import data daily (with a new image) nor to follow the updates without needing to reflash apps+data generated
Jun 06 17:19:22 <pancake> scene/mscene.cpp:565:29: error: ‘ItemStopsFocusHandling’ is not a member of ‘QGraphicsItem’
Jun 06 17:19:35 <lcuk> so keeping maemo on the NAND and eMMC is best for people
Jun 06 17:19:48 <Arkkis> Maybe I just wait then :)
Jun 06 17:20:11 <lcuk> we were discussing migration paths over the weekend and will require at some level (a) data import  (b) data backup/restore
Jun 06 17:20:12 <pvuorela> pancake: update qt.
Jun 06 17:20:30 <lcuk> Arkkis, for developers, putting it onto the MicroSD is great
Jun 06 17:20:50 <lcuk> and now that many of the startup bugs are cured
Jun 06 17:20:52 <Arkkis> Well I just wanted to try it :)
Jun 06 17:20:57 <Arkkis> Next stop, Android : D
Jun 06 17:20:58 <clbr> Arkkis: I'm using a class 2 card, they're cheap
Jun 06 17:20:59 <lcuk> it is possible to dig deeper into the living breathing OS
Jun 06 17:21:11 <thiago> wtf, that enum was added in Qt 4.7.2
Jun 06 17:21:12 <pancake> pvuorela: qt-git on archlinux?
Jun 06 17:21:17 <lcuk> Arkkis, i believe android has same issues
Jun 06 17:21:26 <thiago> wait, no
Jun 06 17:21:27 <pancake> im on qt 4.7.3 right now
Jun 06 17:21:28 <thiago> 4.8
Jun 06 17:21:35 * thiago is confused
Jun 06 17:21:45 * lcuk gets thiago a coffee
Jun 06 17:21:48 <thiago> that enum is not in any release
Jun 06 17:22:07 <Arkkis> Well this is just playing anyways :)
Jun 06 17:22:12 <thiago> but it's in my Qt 4.7 branch
Jun 06 17:22:15 <thiago> ok, it needs reverting
Jun 06 17:22:48 <pvuorela> the enum was added marked as qt internal to overcome some shortcomings in the focus handling.
Jun 06 17:23:26 <pancake> pvuorela: libmeegotouch configure script should check for the right version of QT then..
Jun 06 17:24:04 <thiago> there is no version with it
Jun 06 17:24:20 <thiago> which means that meegotouch depends on an unreleased version of Qt
Jun 06 17:24:37 <thiago> you can upgrade to 4.8 TP1 if you want. It seems to be there.
Jun 06 17:25:04 <pancake> well. im building it from git, but the repo looks huge
Jun 06 17:25:19 <pancake> insanely huge
Jun 06 17:27:50 <pancake> 1GB of repo.. not that bad
Jun 06 17:38:42 <lcuk> breaking news: the battery life on n900-de is awesome
Jun 06 17:39:08 <lcuk> been working on background/mic2 stuff today and unplugged it on friday fully charged it is still on
Jun 06 17:39:31 <lcuk> i cannot see a percentage bar on it though
Jun 06 17:39:35 <lcuk> it is <half full
Jun 06 18:19:41 <lcuk> keep picking up mouse but realising it is connected to the other computer
Jun 06 18:19:51 <kyb3R> :)
Jun 06 18:20:01 <Natanaiel> which of these SD cards work better on N900? class 6 or class 10?
Jun 06 18:21:15 <lcuk> Natanaiel, try the class10
Jun 06 18:21:24 <lcuk> hopefully that is not in binary ;)
Jun 06 18:21:56 <Natanaiel> no! it's decimal :D
Jun 06 18:22:39 <Natanaiel> lcuk: do u have any suggestion about the brand?
Jun 06 18:23:36 <lcuk> Russel is ok, but I don't like him because he married Katy Perry
Jun 06 18:25:19 <lcuk> Natanaiel, I am not sure about specific MicroSD cards
Jun 06 18:25:42 <lcuk> all I know is standing in the shop and buying fastest that I can afford at the time
Jun 06 18:25:45 <smoku> lcuk, 6 is at least heptary ;-)
Jun 06 18:25:53 * lcuk should hopefully be doing that in a car showroom
Jun 06 18:26:13 <lcuk> smoku, and it would be faster than the class 2 one he mentioned :P
Jun 06 18:26:16 <pebcak> will there be a solution for the twitteraccounts in the friends wall?
Jun 06 18:26:22 <pebcak> (panel)
Jun 06 18:26:30 <lcuk> patches welcome
Jun 06 18:26:45 <lcuk> friends too http://twitter.com/lcuk :P
Jun 06 18:27:14 * javispedro fails at using twitter..
Jun 06 18:27:45 * lcuk listening to Pulp, Different Class
Jun 06 18:30:29 <smoku> Natanaiel, you should really look at read/write speed.  I've seen class4 sd with higher read speed than more expensive class10 ;-)
Jun 06 18:32:15 <Natanaiel> smoku: which brand was it?
Jun 06 18:32:42 <smoku> sandisk vs kingston IIRC
Jun 06 18:33:10 <Natanaiel> smoku: the class4 was sandisk?
Jun 06 18:33:17 <smoku> that sandisk had low write speed, thus conly class4
Jun 06 18:33:39 <lcuk> i have 2 identially branded 4gb Class 2 cards
Jun 06 18:33:47 <lcuk> no difference at all on the face of the cards
Jun 06 18:34:01 <smoku> but if you do not make swap on it, it'll feel faster on normal usage
Jun 06 18:34:19 <lcuk> but one of them writes more than 2 times faster than the other (750kB/s vs 2000kB/s)
Jun 06 18:36:49 <Stskeeps> wwdc keynote is curious..
Jun 06 18:37:55 <Natanaiel> so sandisk class 10 should be great!!!
Jun 06 18:38:11 <Natanaiel> http://www.sandisk.com/products/imaging/sandisk-extreme-sdhc-cards-
Jun 06 18:38:41 <ali1234> the class is a minimum, often they are faster than the class suggests
Jun 06 18:38:57 <lcuk> Stskeeps, why
Jun 06 18:39:05 <Natanaiel> 300$ for an SD card!!!
Jun 06 18:39:38 <Stskeeps> lcuk: go look at engadgets live blog and you'd understand
Jun 06 18:39:48 * Stskeeps ponders to look for a bar
Jun 06 18:40:03 <lcuk> Stskeeps, Hemmingways
Jun 06 18:40:12 <frals> in HEL?
Jun 06 18:40:18 <lcuk> but what is it about the release of their new update?
Jun 06 18:40:24 <frals> just ask vdvsx, he knows them all
Jun 06 18:40:29 <lcuk> lol
Jun 06 18:40:33 <Stskeeps> of course he does ;)
Jun 06 18:40:40 <Stskeeps> frals: TMP
Jun 06 18:41:01 <frals> do they have anything beside the river and the train station there? ;D
Jun 06 18:46:26 <Zahra> Natanaiel: sandisk is great
Jun 06 18:53:07 <Natanaiel> Zahra: yes, but it's very expensive
Jun 06 18:53:47 <Zahra> Natanaiel: so you should make a trade-off between them!
Jun 06 18:57:45 <lcuk> Stskeeps, btw, I tried adding the mic2 stuff and practically broke my netbook/ideapad install
Jun 06 18:58:03 <Stskeeps> didnt i say fedora in a vm? ;p
Jun 06 18:58:18 <lcuk> to be fair you did say directly on meego was ok too :P
Jun 06 18:58:34 <Stskeeps> how did you break it?
Jun 06 18:58:47 <lcuk> zypper stopped working
Jun 06 18:59:21 <lcuk> nothing drastic but frustrating
Jun 06 18:59:27 <lcuk> I had not had any issues since
Jun 06 18:59:49 <lcuk> and so had to (right time really) do a system/data/code backup before trying to do anything else
Jun 06 18:59:52 <lcuk> that took more time
Jun 06 19:21:45 <vgrade> nokia 3g booklet, netbook image available on http://bug10738.openaos.org/, take the red pill. thanks anab1s
Jun 06 19:21:49 <MeeGoBot> Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10738 nor, Undecided, ---, tero.kojo, NEED, Meego community ftp server or similar needed
Jun 06 19:27:16 <lcuk> vgrade, :D
Jun 06 19:36:53 <alterego> Wait, WWDC is in SF?
Jun 06 19:36:57 <alterego> I should have stayed there :)
Jun 06 19:37:33 <Ronksu> staying in SF would have been nice for many other reasons too :)
Jun 06 19:37:39 <alterego> Indeed
Jun 06 19:44:45 <lcuk> gabrbedd, idk whether related quite is right
Jun 06 19:45:00 <lcuk> r rather, how is that different to k* q* i* etc
Jun 06 19:45:55 <gabrbedd> lcuk: they all have the same father... so that's close enough for now. :-)
Jun 06 19:46:23 <lcuk> gabrbedd, not quite
Jun 06 19:46:29 <gabrbedd> lcuk: as for k* q* , etc... they span across totally unrelated projects with unrelated developers... so I kinda don't like that.
Jun 06 19:46:32 <lcuk> ciroip invented the clock
Jun 06 19:46:41 <lcuk> he is afterall an italian watchmaker
Jun 06 19:47:03 <lcuk> gabrbedd, k* and q* and i* all started off as one persons project
Jun 06 19:47:10 <lcuk> gtk was one app idea
Jun 06 19:47:14 <gabrbedd> lcuk: as fore iWhatever... iDunno iJust agree with tom. :-)
Jun 06 19:47:21 <lcuk> iKnow
Jun 06 19:47:41 <gabrbedd> lcuk: QtCore, QtGui, QtMultimedia --- ok by me.
Jun 06 19:48:00 <gabrbedd> lcuk: QTetris... not so much.
Jun 06 19:48:04 <lcuk> what was the app that Qt was created to run?
Jun 06 19:48:46 <lcuk> we know Gtk was written for the Gimp
Jun 06 19:48:52 <gabrbedd> lcuk: dunno.  exceeds my buffer.
Jun 06 19:48:55 <lcuk> I know liqbase was written for my sketch editor
Jun 06 19:49:22 <lcuk> but Qt is rather more murky
Jun 06 19:50:02 <berndhs> ah, Qt is for everything ?
Jun 06 19:50:23 <lcuk> berndhs, what was the inspiration
Jun 06 19:50:30 <ali1234> Qt was not made for a specific product
Jun 06 19:50:42 <lcuk> who wrote the first version?
Jun 06 19:50:49 <ali1234> the inspiration was to replace all the badly designed toolkits that were hacked together around a single product
Jun 06 19:51:43 <lcuk> A couple of years later, in the summer of 1990, Haavard and Eirik were working together on a C++ database application for ultrasound images. The system needed to be able to run with a GUI on Unix, Macintosh, and Windows. One day that summer, Haavard and Eirik went outside to enjoy the sunshine, and as they sat on a park bench, Haavard said, "We need an object-oriented display system." The resulting discussion laid the intellectual foundation fo
Jun 06 19:51:43 <lcuk> r the object-oriented cross-platform GUI framework they would soon go on to build.
Jun 06 19:51:54 <lcuk> it was a database application for ultrasound images
Jun 06 19:52:18 <berndhs> no I think the inspiration was that the available toolkits sucked
Jun 06 19:52:27 <lcuk> http://www.civilnet.cn/book/embedded/gui/qt4/pref04.html
Jun 06 19:52:33 <lcuk> I am reading a book on its history
Jun 06 19:53:41 <berndhs> probably revisionist stuff written by the winners :)
Jun 06 19:54:21 <lcuk> no, you are remembering differently, before qt Haavard wrote a toolkit
Jun 06 19:55:17 <lcuk> like I am sure the Gtk guys wrote stuff prior to gimp
Jun 06 19:55:51 <lcuk> berndhs, who do you count as the winners?
Jun 06 19:56:07 <berndhs> those who are around to talk about it :)
Jun 06 19:56:25 <lcuk> i dont understand the race though to be winning
Jun 06 19:56:29 <berndhs> i'm just going with the percentages
Jun 06 19:56:34 <lcuk> since the toolkits co-exist
Jun 06 19:57:05 <berndhs> history written and re-interpreted after things happened
Jun 06 19:57:14 <lcuk> if that is the case: are *any* of the original developers still around?
Jun 06 19:57:41 <berndhs> good question
Jun 06 19:59:25 <ljp> depends on how 'original' you want
Jun 06 20:00:47 <lcuk> ljp, any of the founding partners and guiding strategists
Jun 06 20:23:22 <vgrade> lcuk, who would have thought a nokia device runnng meego :)
Jun 06 20:23:48 <lcuk> !!
Jun 06 20:29:45 * lcuk listens to Kylie Minogue again
Jun 06 20:30:02 <lcuk> and now I am really curious about the meego netbook
Jun 06 20:30:13 <lcuk> since it knows how to read mp3 yet cannot play the music itself
Jun 06 20:36:53 <lcuk> btw, data people
Jun 06 20:36:57 * w00t poked his sync stuff into a qtcontacts backend and had it work first or second try, is happy
Jun 06 20:37:02 <lcuk> testing folks for touchscreens
Jun 06 20:37:11 <lcuk> multiple strokes on the ideapad:
Jun 06 20:37:12 <lcuk> http://liqbase.net/liq.20110313_030149.liqtop1.scr.png
Jun 06 20:37:21 <lcuk> note that some strokes are deemed as clicks
Jun 06 20:37:27 <lcuk> on lists of items this is frustrating
Jun 06 20:50:21 <gabrbedd> lcuk: some of it may be the ideapad's digitizer and/or driver.  I've also been having trouble with it when using it as a music keyboard.
Jun 06 20:50:48 <lcuk2> gabrbedd, it is only when it is propper up using the hinge
Jun 06 20:50:59 <lcuk2> if it is fully in slate mode and the back cannot wobble
Jun 06 20:51:04 <lcuk2> it is better
Jun 06 20:51:15 <lcuk2> but if the design does not account for such things
Jun 06 20:51:19 <lcuk2> the UX is degraded
Jun 06 20:51:33 <lcuk2> the touchsensor on the n810 was similar
Jun 06 20:51:41 <lcuk2> so I changed the design of the graffiti wall
Jun 06 20:51:47 <lcuk2> to only do selection on click
Jun 06 20:51:49 <lcuk2> for items in the wall
Jun 06 20:52:04 <lcuk2> so panning and accidentally clicking did not have a big effect
Jun 06 20:52:10 <lcuk2> worked well :)
Jun 06 21:00:24 <w00t> kaitlin_: ping
Jun 06 21:00:33 <kaitlin_> w00t: Hi =)
Jun 06 21:00:52 <w00t> hey there, I have a small meego-ux-contacts fix for you
Jun 06 21:01:33 <w00t> how do you guys do contributions nowdays? mailing list, gitorious, ...
Jun 06 21:02:32 <kaitlin_> Most people have been doing a merge request through gitorious.  That works well enough, although I don't always seem to get an email notification.  A patch on the mailing list works for me as well.
Jun 06 21:03:56 <w00t> I'll submit on gitorious and drop you a link then, that works
Jun 06 21:04:55 <kaitlin_> That would be great, thanks! I try to check gitorious a few times a week, but I missed something last week due to lack of email notification and lack of checking ;)
Jun 06 21:05:39 * w00t tests his fix first
Jun 06 21:12:17 <w00t> kaitlin_: https://meego.gitorious.org/meego-ux/meego-app-contacts/merge_requests/4
Jun 06 21:12:51 <w00t> kaitlin_: tracker (and probably EDS) both support self contact, but my manager I'm writing doesn't.. so I noticed that things were pretty weird ;)
Jun 06 21:13:26 <kaitlin_> w00t: Ah, I like it already (reading through the description). I just caught up on the EDS thread, and was thinking about this.
Jun 06 21:16:39 <kaitlin_> w00t: Looks good! No complaints after reading through. I'll test it out before I leave for the day (in the process of integrating something else at the moment).
Jun 06 21:16:50 <w00t> sure
Jun 06 21:16:54 <w00t> thanks :)
Jun 06 21:17:37 <alterego> I might start calling Developer Edition, Community Edition from now on to confuse people.
Jun 06 21:17:42 <alterego> And make everyone use my name :)
Jun 06 21:17:51 <javispedro> alterego: call it hacker edition for extra points.
Jun 06 21:17:56 <alterego> pfft
Jun 06 21:18:06 <alterego> Cracker Edition (for whites)
Jun 06 21:18:11 * alterego wonders if that was racist.
Jun 06 21:19:16 <alterego> I guess by the stunned silence it probably was.
Jun 06 21:19:21 * alterego slowely backs away ..
Jun 06 21:19:52 <CosmoHill> white...hats?
Jun 06 21:25:02 <gabrbedd> alterego: call it iCE and you've got a deal.
Jun 06 21:25:14 * alterego shudders
Jun 06 21:25:51 <gabrbedd> MeeGo ME -- Munk Edition
Jun 06 21:25:56 <alterego> Heh
Jun 06 21:26:02 <alterego> No, god no not ME :P
Jun 06 21:26:49 <gabrbedd> iMeeGoWeYuGo
Jun 06 21:28:30 <CosmoHill> MeeGo WiiWii
Jun 06 21:29:17 <gabrbedd> lol
Jun 06 21:33:42 * lbt likes CE
Jun 06 21:33:54 <lbt> and since it's a Reference Vendor.... CERV
Jun 06 21:34:03 <lbt> to Protect and CERV
Jun 06 21:34:09 <lbt> keeping MeeGo honest :)
Jun 06 21:34:12 <CosmoHill> I like people on Maplin who buy netbooks with Windows CE and then ask about Vista or Windows XP on it
Jun 06 21:34:28 * TSCHAKeee chuckles.
Jun 06 21:34:30 <javispedro> sounds too much like NERV
Jun 06 21:34:41 <TSCHAKeee> there are still people who buy WinCE stuff?
Jun 06 21:34:56 <CosmoHill> "So you think you have NERV? Well do ya, punk?"
Jun 06 21:34:57 <javispedro> TSCHAKeee: It's being slowly replaced with Android stuff.
Jun 06 21:35:10 <CosmoHill> TSCHAKeee: yes, we'll call them "ill-informed"
Jun 06 21:35:24 * CosmoHill is talking about people who buy from Maplins
Jun 06 21:36:06 <CosmoHill> Maplin and Halfords have websites that just make you want to disable javascript
Jun 06 22:14:33 <dyrvere> An SQL Query walks into a bar, approaches two tables and asks, "Can I join you?"
Jun 06 22:16:36 <CosmoHill> hehe
Jun 06 22:38:37 <toninikkanen> dyrvere: The problem with UDP jokes is that there is no way to know, whether the audience got it
Jun 06 22:39:30 <dyrvere> there is also no way to know if the audience will get it if you don't try it first. right?
Jun 06 22:42:56 <toninikkanen> tcp jokes i will keep on retelling you until you get them
Jun 06 22:43:44 <toninikkanen> UDP walks into a bar. The bartender does not acknowledge him.
Jun 06 22:44:21 <dyrvere> hehe
Jun 06 22:44:41 <dyrvere> sorry, watching stream from E3.
Jun 06 22:45:20 <CosmoHill> this jokes are funny but I wouldn't try and pull with them
Jun 06 22:47:25 <dyrvere> git pull?
Jun 06 22:47:36 <CosmoHill> that work on people?
Jun 06 22:48:02 <dyrvere> mhm, can meego integrate with the human brain yet?
Jun 06 22:48:22 <CosmoHill> does hitting a developer with a netbook count?
Jun 06 22:48:58 <dyrvere> did you really?
Jun 06 22:49:12 <dyrvere> and no, I don't think it does.
Jun 06 22:49:19 <CosmoHill> no I've not
Jun 06 22:49:33 <CosmoHill> I do throw phones at people tho
Jun 06 22:49:54 <dyrvere> how many phones do you have?
Jun 06 22:50:05 <CosmoHill> same phone
Jun 06 22:50:20 <CosmoHill> btw, being hit in the knee with a SE K800i hurts
Jun 06 22:50:32 <dyrvere> surprised the one you throw it at let you have it back :)
Jun 06 22:50:50 <CosmoHill> I've throw it at dogs before
Jun 06 22:51:01 <dyrvere> haha
Jun 06 22:51:21 <CosmoHill> "he max awake?" (max is a german shepard) "I duno" *throws phone at max"
Jun 06 22:52:25 <CosmoHill> s/he/is/
Jun 06 22:52:26 <infobot> CosmoHill meant: "is max awake?" (max is a german shepard) "I duno" *throws phone at max"
Jun 06 22:53:27 <CosmoHill> I do throw laptops btw, but only when turned off / asleep and only onto soft things like beds or sofas
Jun 06 22:55:16 <dyrvere> Hmm, my phone broke and a friend gave me this Xperia X1, still thinking about if I really should thank him or not.
Jun 06 22:56:04 <CosmoHill> I was talking to my friend going "yeah..did you not get any of my texts over the last week?" he said no and I ripped my phone off the charger and throw it at the wall
Jun 06 22:56:43 <CosmoHill> so I've gone from a working sony that doesn't send my messages to a broken nokia that does
Jun 06 22:58:29 <dyrvere> hmmm, yeah sony phones. is it the brand or the design you pay for?
Jun 06 22:59:04 <CosmoHill> I used to stick with sonys cos they seemed good for me and the price
Jun 06 22:59:22 <CosmoHill> the K800i and Nokia 6220c are both dad's old contract phones
Jun 06 23:02:23 <CosmoHill> tbh I should just get a candy bar I can text with but I also like taking pics when out and about without my D-SLR
Jun 06 23:11:54 <dyrvere> candybar?
Jun 06 23:15:13 <CosmoHill> not the slide, touch screen or flip
Jun 06 23:17:29 <dyrvere> it looks nice.
Jun 06 23:18:51 <CosmoHill> I like to be able to text without having to look at the phone
Jun 06 23:19:00 <CosmoHill> a skill most of us had in highschool
Jun 06 23:21:31 <CosmoHill> cyas
Jun 06 23:23:15 * blauzahl thinks of an edible phone
Jun 06 23:23:57 <dyrvere> that would be nice, oh well hibernation mode. night
Jun 06 23:29:25 <w00t> kaitlin_: what decides to put contacts in a given bucket?
Jun 06 23:29:53 <w00t> I have a contact that is repeatedly being put into one named '#' which is totally wrong (name 'Zeds Lol' at present, but I don't think name matters)
Jun 06 23:30:58 <w00t> hmm, renaming it to 'Sam' caused a crash, restarting had it in the 'S' place though
Jun 06 23:31:12 <kaitlin_> w00t: The LocaleUtils::getBinForString() call does.  I try to use the ICU rules where possible, but there are some special rules for certain languages based on bugs filed by translation testers.
Jun 06 23:31:31 <w00t> and renaming it back to 'Z' put it back in '#'...
Jun 06 23:31:44 <kaitlin_> Yikes.. it shouldn't crash at all.. Which locale is your system set for?
Jun 06 23:32:08 <w00t> well, the crash is probably something funny with my contacts engine, so don't worry about that
Jun 06 23:32:30 <w00t> will tell you shortly :)
Jun 06 23:33:34 <kaitlin_> I haven't tested very many locales yet (that's up for this week), but it sounds like the binning logic in place currently is shaky.
Jun 06 23:35:21 <w00t> country is QLocale::AnyCountry
Jun 06 23:35:56 <w00t> the alpha check is returning true on all of them
Jun 06 23:38:28 <kaitlin_> Ah, interesting.  So in getExemplarForString(), we either get no indexes, or the indexes never match.
Jun 06 23:38:45 <w00t> getExemplarForString is returning #
Jun 06 23:41:09 * w00t tries something
Jun 06 23:41:37 <w00t> nope.. what on earth :)
Jun 06 23:45:10 <kaitlin_> w00t: I just reviewed your merge. Looks good. I'm going to merge that in. I can take a look at the AnyCountry issue after that.
Jun 06 23:45:42 <w00t> ok
Jun 06 23:48:22 <kaitlin_> I think ICU doesn't recognize AnyCountry as a valid locale, but getIndexBarChars() should still return A - Z as the set of characters...
Jun 06 23:48:43 <kaitlin_> And that should result in a match.
Jun 06 23:49:31 <w00t> it definitely should
Jun 06 23:50:17 <w00t> it is...
Jun 06 23:51:21 <kaitlin_> w00t: https://meego.gitorious.org/meego-ux/meego-app-contacts/commits/master
Jun 06 23:52:21 <w00t> thanks
Jun 06 23:52:41 <kaitlin_> Thanks for catching that so fast =)
Jun 06 23:52:49 <w00t> this really isn't making sense, it's searching for ascii 90 ('Z') correctly, as the start of the string.. getIndexBarChars contains it..
Jun 06 23:53:14 <w00t> it isn't the icu stuff in isLessThan, as I just made it fall back to the QString version for testing
Jun 06 23:55:02 <kaitlin_> Oh?  That was going to be the next thing I looked at ;)
Jun 06 23:57:36 <w00t> hmm
Jun 06 23:57:41 <w00t> it is something to do with isLessThan though
Jun 06 23:58:37 <w00t> kaitlin_: with this, I get correct results (at least for my test data): http://pastebin.com/H5MP3eGm
Jun 07 00:00:11 <w00t> kaitlin_: ah.. I bet I get it
Jun 07 00:00:22 <kaitlin_> Ah, definitely isLessThan() then.  Oh.. just reproduced what you're seeint.
Jun 07 00:00:25 <w00t> kaitlin_: your isLessThan doesn't guarentee that # will always pop to the bottom
Jun 07 00:01:20 <kaitlin_> Ohh.. yes, good call.  It does not.
Jun 07 00:01:46 <w00t> want me to fix that up?
Jun 07 00:02:16 <kaitlin_> That would be fantastic, since you spotted the issue.
Jun 07 00:02:38 <w00t> sure :)
Jun 07 00:04:17 <kaitlin_> Thanks for catching that!  I saw something weird recently where a contact binned under '#' showed up in the middle of the list. I haven't been able to reproduce it since I added the getBinForString() call. But I that just masks the issue.
Jun 07 00:09:19 <w00t> hmm
Jun 07 00:09:31 <w00t> it's doing odd things now (putting # in the middle of the list)
Jun 07 00:09:34 <w00t> I don't understand that
Jun 07 00:09:52 <w00t> I wonder if proxymodel's sorting is involved in this too
Jun 07 00:12:43 <kaitlin_> Interesting - that's the issue I saw previously.  I did a fair bit of rework and reshuffle on how the binning works, and that issue went away.  The ProxyModel should use the isLessThan() call for it's sort method.
Jun 07 00:13:05 <w00t> actually, there is still an issue here with locale
Jun 07 00:13:11 <w00t> because I shouldn't even have a contact with #
Jun 07 00:13:38 * w00t frowns
Jun 07 00:18:13 <w00t> okay, it's always finding the item, too
Jun 07 00:18:27 * w00t looks confused
Jun 07 00:19:51 <kaitlin_> w00t: Taking another look now. Got a few pings from folks.. and looked away =)
Jun 07 00:20:14 <w00t> *THIS* is weird
Jun 07 00:20:28 <w00t> # is never being returned from that method, ever
Jun 07 00:20:30 <boss> w00t: Error: "is" is not a valid command.
Jun 07 00:20:38 <w00t> according to the current logging I have
Jun 07 00:20:47 <w00t> yet I have a 'M' contact in a '#' bin in the middle of the list
Jun 07 00:21:13 <w00t> btw, isLessThan is also never called with #
Jun 07 00:22:23 <w00t> current debug: http://pastebin.com/yveKNXzy
Jun 07 00:26:46 <GonzoTheGreat> cd
Jun 07 00:27:15 <w00t> [meego@localhost ~]$
Jun 07 00:27:41 <GonzoTheGreat> he he he
Jun 07 00:30:26 <w00t> kaitlin_: even removing all references to a # bin in the locale .cpp... it's still there
Jun 07 00:31:24 <w00t> kaitlin_: this appears to be somehow the fault of the QML
Jun 07 00:31:58 <w00t> kaitlin_: with http://pastebin.com/AJfqVU3C, that '#' group in the middle is now 'i'mprobablybroken'
Jun 07 00:33:57 <kaitlin_> The '#" on the QML side should just be a fallback though.. hmm..
Jun 07 00:34:34 <w00t> indeed
Jun 07 00:36:06 <kaitlin_> Odd, if I add the change in this pastebin, http://pastebin.com/yveKNXzy... I no longer see an issue.
Jun 07 00:36:13 <w00t> starting to think this is a slightly more sinister problem
Jun 07 00:36:30 <w00t> right, I no longer see the *original* problem
Jun 07 00:36:38 <w00t> I bet if I give you my test contact names, you'd see this too
Jun 07 00:36:47 <w00t> should we try that?
Jun 07 00:37:00 <kaitlin_> That would be great.
Jun 07 00:37:14 <kaitlin_> It's an M contact that is giving you an issue, right?
Jun 07 00:37:25 <w00t> yes
Jun 07 00:37:26 <kaitlin_> Which is odd, as my M contact is showing up under M...
Jun 07 00:38:15 <w00t> I have other M contacts that work correctly
Jun 07 00:38:34 <kaitlin_> Oh.. I see.
Jun 07 00:38:41 <w00t> (I hate model problems with a firey passion)
Jun 07 00:38:45 <kaitlin_> Broken, broken.
Jun 07 00:39:09 <kaitlin_> Haha =)  I feel like the sorting stuff is terribly bolted together as it is.
Jun 07 00:39:48 <w00t> give me a moment to type these out
Jun 07 00:40:03 <kaitlin_> We need an export all to vcard option ;)
Jun 07 00:43:18 <w00t> the one marked 'BROKEN' is, obviously, the one that is being put in a confused place
Jun 07 00:49:06 <w00t> I think special has seen some pretty epic bugs with ListView.section
Jun 07 00:49:10 <w00t> I hope we're not running into them
Jun 07 00:49:19 <kaitlin_> w00t: Weird.. The broken one shows up for me correctly.
Jun 07 00:49:29 <w00t> kaitlin_: !
Jun 07 00:50:40 <kaitlin_> Yeah, it's odd.. hold on.. let me get the diff.
Jun 07 00:50:53 <w00t> let me revert eveyrthing back to how it was in case something else was still broken
Jun 07 00:51:14 <special> any case where the sections in a ListView would change is horribly broken.
Jun 07 00:51:34 <w00t> nope, still broken
Jun 07 00:51:40 <kaitlin_> The sections in a ListView are difficult to deal with, as there's not much control. =(
Jun 07 00:51:43 <special> it's unusable unless your sections are static from initialization
Jun 07 00:52:02 <special> and their contents.
Jun 07 00:52:12 <kaitlin_> w00t: http://pastebin.com/GkTcqGLN
Jun 07 00:52:18 <w00t> I'll revert away from my custom manager too, just in case
Jun 07 00:53:22 <w00t> argh, adding all these contacts will be fun
Jun 07 00:53:33 * w00t attaches a usb keyboard :)
Jun 07 00:54:39 <kaitlin_> I have one attached for that very reason.. sometimes it's too slow.
Jun 07 01:02:52 <w00t> hmmm
Jun 07 01:02:57 <w00t> now they are showing ok
Jun 07 01:03:01 <w00t> that doesn't make a lot of sense
Jun 07 01:03:39 * w00t switches manager again
Jun 07 01:04:00 <w00t> broken
Jun 07 01:04:10 <w00t> how can that be.
Jun 07 01:05:11 <kaitlin_> Just from changing the manager?
Jun 07 01:07:04 <w00t> yes, well, slightly different test data and presumably ordering of contacts from the manager too
Jun 07 01:07:35 <w00t> is there any way you can think of that I can easily eliminate proxymodel from things, just to make sure its sorting isn't interfering in this?
Jun 07 01:10:04 <kaitlin_> I wonder what would happen if you comment out the ProxyModel in main.qml
Jun 07 01:10:29 <w00t> well, there's lots of other references to it
Jun 07 01:10:33 <kaitlin_> You'd have to change a lot of other things in main.
Jun 07 01:10:38 <kaitlin_> Yeah =(  It used to not be like that.
Jun 07 01:10:40 <w00t> I guess I can try go around and poket hem
Jun 07 01:12:09 <kaitlin_> You could have the ProxyModel::lessThan() always return true.
Jun 07 01:12:26 <kaitlin_> That would still enforce some sorting though.
Jun 07 01:16:19 <w00t> kaitlin_: really interesting
Jun 07 01:16:33 <w00t> with no proxy model, Marie Fjell shows up at the top of the list, with no sections at all
Jun 07 01:16:39 <w00t> (no # or anything)
Jun 07 01:17:46 <w00t> diff being http://w00t.dereferenced.net/p/t/debug.diff
Jun 07 01:19:45 <kaitlin_> That's very strange.. is that the first contact you added?  If you remove the proxy model, then the sorting should be whatever order they are returned from the manager.
Jun 07 01:20:30 <w00t> hard to say, this is.. a bit of a special manager, it's synchronising between devices, and I entered these contacts on a different, custom demo QML app a long time before I wrote the manager
Jun 07 01:20:32 <w00t> let me try find out
Jun 07 01:21:32 <kaitlin_> Ah, sounds cool.
Jun 07 01:22:25 <w00t> yes, marie is the first contact returned
Jun 07 01:22:57 <w00t> let me change that so one of the others is just to see what happens
Jun 07 01:25:20 <w00t> heh, yes
Jun 07 01:25:27 <w00t> if marie is skipped totally, the next first contact is broken
Jun 07 01:27:33 <kaitlin_> Oh really?  But hmm... so why would changing the manager interfere with the ProxyModel sort? Even if the manager is doing something special with the first contact you return, the ProxyModel should handle it properly.
Jun 07 01:27:47 <w00t> no, the manager is totally braindead simple
Jun 07 01:28:01 * w00t tries skipping all except one contact
Jun 07 01:29:01 <w00t> heh, that's curious
Jun 07 01:29:10 <w00t> I have an empty state "you have no contacts" underneath my contacts list
Jun 07 01:29:53 <kaitlin_> I was looking into that bug today ;)
Jun 07 01:30:23 <kaitlin_> It's due to this line of code: Binding{target: emptyListView; property: "opacity"; value: ((cardListView.count == 1) ? 1 : 0);} in the GroupedViewPortrait.qml
Jun 07 01:31:19 <kaitlin_> If you just have the meCard, you want to show that screen.  But... if you search or filter your list so that you just have one contact, you don't want to see it.  So we need to improve the condition statement there.
Jun 07 01:32:49 <w00t> no, I have no me card
Jun 07 01:32:53 <w00t> (no self contact)
Jun 07 01:33:32 <kaitlin_> Yeah, that's because the conditional doesn't detect whether its a meCard.  It just checks to see how many cards are in the list.
Jun 07 01:34:04 * w00t hmms some more
Jun 07 01:35:10 <kaitlin_> But that's unrelated to the sorting issue at least =)
Jun 07 01:37:38 <kaitlin_> http://pastebin.com/uK09iVMx  <-- Should prevent the "you have no contacts" from showing up.
Jun 07 01:38:07 <w00t> *nod*
Jun 07 01:38:13 <w00t> shipit
Jun 07 01:39:19 <kaitlin_> Excellent, thanks for the test =)  I have to run it by Connie first for code review.
Jun 07 01:39:39 <kaitlin_> But I'm still really puzzled but the sorting issue. I'm not sure I understand it =(
Jun 07 01:40:28 <w00t> well, there has to be something funky going on.. I'll keep researching for a bit
Jun 07 01:42:32 <w00t> kaitlin_: what Qt version do you have?
Jun 07 01:43:41 * w00t has qt-4.7.2-7.5.src.rpm
Jun 07 01:45:04 <kaitlin_> libqtcore4-4.7.2-7.7.i586
Jun 07 01:46:33 <w00t> kaitlin_: AHA
Jun 07 01:46:35 <w00t> I see it
Jun 07 01:47:49 <w00t> fixed
Jun 07 01:47:55 <w00t> "how could it change with the manager" you say
Jun 07 01:48:02 <w00t> "self contact not supported" is my answer
Jun 07 01:48:15 <w00t> I'll push an MR to gitorious with the sorting fix and this fixed
Jun 07 01:49:22 <kaitlin_> Ohh.... so it was erroneously treating the first contact as a self contact?
Jun 07 01:51:18 <w00t> yes
Jun 07 01:53:14 <w00t> kaitlin_: https://meego.gitorious.org/meego-ux/meego-app-contacts/merge_requests/5
Jun 07 01:57:08 <w00t> next thing i'd like to look at is why the contact editor is so horrifically slow to open
Jun 07 01:57:15 <w00t> it takes like 5-7 seconds on my exopc
Jun 07 01:57:43 <kaitlin_> Yes, it's terrible.  It used to not be that bad.
Jun 07 02:03:36 <w00t> kaitlin_: np.. thanks for all your help, anyway
Jun 07 02:03:38 <w00t> :)
Jun 07 02:03:47 <w00t> glad we got it sorted, even if they were (indirectly) mostly my issues :-P
Jun 07 02:11:36 <kaitlin_> w00t: Just looked at your patch.  Oops! I should have checked for that when I reviewed your other patch.  Good catch there.
Jun 07 02:12:06 <w00t> I even searched for other instances
Jun 07 02:12:09 <w00t> I'm not sure how I missed it
Jun 07 02:13:38 <kaitlin_> =)
Jun 07 02:15:14 <kaitlin_> w00t: https://meego.gitorious.org/meego-ux/meego-app-contacts/commits/master  Thanks for the fixes!
Jun 07 02:15:33 <w00t> np
Jun 07 02:17:38 <GeneralAntilles> wmarone_, chroot?!
Jun 07 02:18:38 <gabrbedd> GeneralAntilles: gesundheit!
Jun 07 02:21:41 <timeless> gan: i'm employed!
Jun 07 02:21:50 <timeless> sadly i'm not getting a paycheck for 2 weeks
Jun 07 02:23:06 <gabrbedd> timeless: woot!
Jun 07 02:24:01 <GeneralAntilles> timeless, that's a long wait.
Jun 07 02:24:22 <GeneralAntilles> gabrbedd, Nomovok MeeGo on Nook Color demo was just a chroot. . . .
Jun 07 02:25:30 <gabrbedd> GeneralAntilles: cool.  it sounded like you sneezed, though. :-)
Jun 07 02:26:56 <GeneralAntilles> gabrbedd: not cool. Irritating wind-up. :P
Jun 07 02:32:21 <w00t> GeneralAntilles: wth
Jun 07 02:32:38 <w00t> source?
Jun 07 02:32:45 <GeneralAntilles> http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3037&page=4
Jun 07 02:33:29 <w00t> heh
Jun 07 02:36:01 <gabrbedd> GeneralAntilles: Ah, I get it now.  Are the droid sources unavailable?
Jun 07 02:36:37 <GeneralAntilles> Think the relevant sources are all available.
Jun 07 02:36:57 <GeneralAntilles> But Nomovok hasn't made anything available.
Jun 07 02:37:04 <GeneralAntilles> Slightly irrelevant since it's just a chroot anyway.
Jun 07 02:39:00 <gabrbedd> Well, their main selling point for their service is their expertise in getting accelerated graphics on ARM devices with MeeGo...
Jun 07 02:39:18 <gabrbedd> So it looks like it was decent advertising for their skilz.
Jun 07 02:40:10 <gabrbedd> And I don't think MeeGo looked too bad in the deal... even if it was a never-see-the-light-of-day demo.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jun 07 02:59:57 2011