**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 08 02:59:56 2011
Jun 08 03:18:23 <Shunny> Hey all. I can't install MeeGo on an Asus 901 with a 4GB hard drive. With default install it says Your / partition is less than 3000 MB, etc. Even though it is a 4GB drive.
Jun 08 03:19:25 <gabrbedd> Shunny: the default layout sets up about 200MB for boot and 2GB swap.
Jun 08 03:19:42 <gabrbedd> Shunny: If you manually set up your partitions... you might be able to make it work.
Jun 08 03:19:58 <Shunny> Oy. So I need to manually set up a swap, boot, and a separate OS partition?
Jun 08 03:21:13 <gabrbedd> Shunny: yeah... but the installer gives you an option to do that... so it's not really very hard.
Jun 08 03:21:29 <gabrbedd> sda1 /boot (ext3)
Jun 08 03:21:39 <gabrbedd> ^^ 200MB
Jun 08 03:22:06 <gabrbedd> sda2 swap 512MB
Jun 08 03:22:19 <gabrbedd> sda3 / (ext3) [Everything else]
Jun 08 03:22:31 <Shunny> nice, that's what I needed to know
Jun 08 03:22:37 <Shunny> should i do btrfs for /?
Jun 08 03:23:03 <berndhs> strictly speaking you dont need /boot on a separate partition
Jun 08 03:23:22 <gabrbedd> berndhs: true.  it's a habit :-)
Jun 08 03:23:32 <berndhs> yes its the normal thing to do :)
Jun 08 03:23:35 <Shunny> but i do if i want btrfs...which seems the best? btrfs isnt bootable
Jun 08 03:23:42 <gabrbedd> Shunny: it's your choice whether you use btrfs or ext3.
Jun 08 03:23:56 <berndhs> right if you want btrfs you need separate /boot
Jun 08 03:24:10 <gabrbedd> Shunny: You cannot boot from a btrfs partition.  It's an OK file system... but I it burned me recently.
Jun 08 03:26:35 <Shunny> thanks everyone. exactly what I needed
Jun 08 03:26:57 <Shunny> it looked really slick in the liveboot... so much faster than eeebuntu
Jun 08 03:49:13 <Shunny> thanks again!
Jun 08 04:39:55 <iekku> morning
Jun 08 04:46:11 <gabrbedd> iekku: good morning :-)
Jun 08 04:51:08 <iekku> gabrbedd, bed time!
Jun 08 04:51:09 <iekku> :P
Jun 08 04:51:24 <gabrbedd> yep!
Jun 08 04:58:03 <sofar> naaaa
Jun 08 05:18:02 <gabrbedd> good night!
Jun 08 06:39:36 <sofar> Stskeeps: ty
Jun 08 06:39:43 <Stskeeps> for..?
Jun 08 06:39:51 <Stskeeps> ah, yeah
Jun 08 06:39:58 <sofar> looking at that ridiculously filed bug
Jun 08 06:40:09 <Stskeeps> it's all about the triaging
Jun 08 06:40:31 <iekku> what bug, where? may i help?
Jun 08 06:40:32 <sofar> yeah... I didn't even read the Xorg log correctly
Jun 08 06:40:35 <sofar> dupe
Jun 08 06:40:39 <sofar> don't bother
Jun 08 06:40:54 * Stskeeps grabs coffee
Jun 08 06:40:59 <sofar> if you have time, try out the new devel:xfce changes ;)
Jun 08 06:41:49 <Stskeeps> btw, unity 3d is the clutter/mutter based one i think.. unity 2d had the difference that it's made in qt
Jun 08 06:42:54 <sofar> I don't know enough about unity really to contrinute to the thread
Jun 08 06:44:13 <Stskeeps> :nod:
Jun 08 06:44:29 <Stskeeps> i think we already had unity 2d on meego actually, some half year back
Jun 08 06:44:31 <sofar> seems weird to dump 3d/wayland when we're moving to wayland
Jun 08 06:44:42 <Stskeeps> :nod:
Jun 08 06:45:07 <sofar> if any, we should just go to something plain for netbook and let vendors "pimp the ride" themselves
Jun 08 06:45:10 <Venemo> good morning :)
Jun 08 06:45:47 <Stskeeps> sofar: i think we could get pretty far with 1 day of qml2, qml compositor and wayland :P
Jun 08 06:45:51 <lbt_train> phaeron: ping
Jun 08 06:45:51 <Stskeeps> even with fancy shader effects
Jun 08 06:46:01 <sofar> hehe
Jun 08 06:46:05 <sofar> that's not the problem
Jun 08 06:46:20 <phaeron> lbt_train: pong
Jun 08 06:46:30 <wassupnari> Stskeeps : i got your email today morning, and thank you for your supporting. :)
Jun 08 06:46:32 <sofar> the problem is making an entire suite of applications that look, feel and (most important) behave consistent and natural
Jun 08 06:46:36 <lbt_train> phaeron: I updated the openSuse.org project on pub ... removed the ubuntu 10.10 from kkv, rzr and ronan
Jun 08 06:46:41 <sofar> COUGH not the best track record
Jun 08 06:47:00 <phaeron> lbt_train: and it should start working
Jun 08 06:47:02 <lbt_train> could you check it's OK
Jun 08 06:47:02 <lbt_train> I don't have ssh
Jun 08 06:47:15 <lbt_train> phaeron: hope so :)
Jun 08 06:47:18 <wassupnari> Stskeeps : We are currently merging and testing Meego 1.2 version on our device
Jun 08 06:47:24 <Stskeeps> wassupnari: ok, cool
Jun 08 06:47:40 <sofar> wassupnari: which device?
Jun 08 06:47:44 <lbt_train> phaeron: also, I know today is busy but can you update Sage in meego-arm
Jun 08 06:47:55 <Stskeeps> wassupnari: it seems like for example ST Ericsson is publishing hardfp binaries for their graphics chip in end of june, so that's hopefully first out of many
Jun 08 06:48:36 <wassupnari> Stskeeps : but if i run meego-im-uiserver, then some errors come up.
Jun 08 06:48:58 <Stskeeps> wassupnari: does the rest of UI stack work ok?
Jun 08 06:49:01 <phaeron> lbt_train: doesn't seem to be fixed , from webui
Jun 08 06:49:05 <wassupnari> sofar : tegra armv5
Jun 08 06:49:20 <lbt_train> phaeron: bollocks
Jun 08 06:49:35 <lbt_train> phaeron: lo prio though
Jun 08 06:49:41 <wassupnari> Stskeeps : yes, all UI stack work well
Jun 08 06:50:38 <Stskeeps> wassupnari: i think there's updates to meego-inputmethodframework in meego 1.2 update releases, so maybe it's good to try that one out
Jun 08 06:50:42 <Stskeeps> that fixes some issues
Jun 08 06:52:12 <wassupnari> Stskeeps : do you know when the bug fixed meego-inputmethodframework package released?
Jun 08 06:52:26 <Stskeeps> let me just check if i remember correctly in the first place
Jun 08 06:52:42 <wassupnari> Stskeeps : because we are testing on quite latest version
Jun 08 06:53:05 <Stskeeps> wassupnari: what's the error, by the way?
Jun 08 06:53:30 <wassupnari> Stskeeps : oh, i forgot to say that first. :)
Jun 08 06:53:36 <wassupnari> Stskeeps : /usr/bin/meego-im-uiserver" Connection timeout when waiting for packet 3 Retrying.
Jun 08 06:54:07 <Stskeeps> that reminds me of something..
Jun 08 06:54:29 <Stskeeps> it sounds like a theme daemon problem
Jun 08 06:54:36 <wassupnari> Stskeeps : i started meego-im-uiserver with -remote-theme -bypass-wm-hint options
Jun 08 06:54:51 <Stskeeps> could you try without -remote-theme?
Jun 08 06:54:54 <wassupnari> Stskeeps : yeah, i think so
Jun 08 06:55:35 <Stskeeps> because that error is from theme engine
Jun 08 06:56:43 <wassupnari> Stskeeps : hm.. same message comes up..
Jun 08 06:57:01 <Stskeeps> wassupnari: could you pastebin the whole startup process of meego-im-uiserver?
Jun 08 06:57:08 <Stskeeps> ie, what warnings it comes with etc
Jun 08 06:57:37 <wassupnari> Stskeeps : okay, please wait :)
Jun 08 07:01:58 <wassupnari> Stskeeps : http://pastebin.com/WU13sHNh   Here it is.
Jun 08 07:03:01 <wassupnari> Stskeeps : Connection timeout errors are repeatedly comes up.
Jun 08 07:03:20 <Stskeeps> i wonder why it insists on getting data from theme daemon
Jun 08 07:03:43 <Stskeeps> mikhas: any insights? starting meego-im-uiserver without -remote-theme yet it tries to connect
Jun 08 07:06:17 <wassupnari> Stskeeps : do you know when is the bug fixed release of meego-inputmethodframework pkg?
Jun 08 07:06:41 <wassupnari> Skskeeps : i mean.. when was.. :)
Jun 08 07:07:54 <Stskeeps> wassupnari: you can look in build.meego.com , find project MeeGo:1.2:oss
Jun 08 07:07:58 <Stskeeps> there was a change some month ago at least
Jun 08 07:09:15 <wassupnari> Stskeeps : okay, i'll find out! thanks :)
Jun 08 07:09:30 <Stskeeps> no problem
Jun 08 07:09:59 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Jun 08 07:10:11 <Stskeeps> morn jaffa
Jun 08 07:12:04 <JUPAJA> morning
Jun 08 07:16:16 <JUPAJA> any one konw a wiki about Meego Tablet UX ports ? or is just google my friend?!
Jun 08 07:21:42 <sofar> JUPAJA: the UX itself doesn't need porting, but the hardware/kernel/drivers do
Jun 08 07:23:43 <Termana> morning
Jun 08 07:25:58 <JUPAJA> yeah i konw but is there a list were it works somth or we some one need help? i kow that i works on ExonPC/Wetab but is it all?!
Jun 08 07:35:12 <mikhas> Stskeeps, wassupnari: use -local-theme?
Jun 08 07:35:39 <mikhas> default is to check for remote theme daemon, so -remote-theme and no param is the same, IIRC
Jun 08 07:36:55 <wassupnari> mikhas : use -local-theme to running meego-im-uiserver or mthemedaemon?
Jun 08 07:42:53 <wassupnari> mikhas : if i run meego-im-uiserver with -local-theme option, then there is no error msg, but process aborted like this http://pastie.org/2036400
Jun 08 07:48:58 <mikhas> wassupnari, I have never seen such output, what hardware are you using?
Jun 08 07:49:45 <mikhas> perhaps you dont want to use MeeGo GS, try -graphicssystem raster
Jun 08 07:49:50 <mikhas> (for meego-im-uiserver)
Jun 08 08:05:48 <Bostik> okay, I must be either blind or stupid but what has happened to libzypp's build requirements? it depends on libproxy-1.0 through pkgconfig but I can't see a single package in 1.2 release which would provide this one
Jun 08 08:06:30 <Stskeeps> pacrunner, i think
Jun 08 08:06:49 <Bostik> let's check
Jun 08 08:07:25 <Bostik> yea, that was it
Jun 08 08:07:42 <Bostik> thank you, it was quite an unintuitive one
Jun 08 08:11:51 <wassupnari> mikhas : i'm testing now :) thanks
Jun 08 08:38:21 <mrdongle> Hello, is there a phone with mostely working meego port yet? (wifi, 3g, touchscreen, sound)
Jun 08 08:38:52 <mrdongle> I look at n900 but are there others?
Jun 08 08:39:46 <andre__> currently there are no "finished" MeeGo phone products yet, as far as I know
Jun 08 08:42:01 <mrdongle> i would like a n900 with slightly more keys and larger screen, maybe faster cpu
Jun 08 08:42:19 <mrdongle> will nokias meego device be like this?
Jun 08 08:42:29 <Stskeeps> you'd have to ask nokia :)
Jun 08 08:42:39 <kuzak> that's not public info :)
Jun 08 08:43:31 <mrdongle> ok i buy a n900
Jun 08 08:44:14 <mrdongle> not many optinos for linux people
Jun 08 08:45:15 * thiago reboots his N900
Jun 08 08:45:18 <hhurtta> mrdongle: if i were you, i would not buy n900 *right now*
Jun 08 08:45:28 <hhurtta> but that's just me saying
Jun 08 08:46:01 <RST38h> should buy a wp7 device, they are the future
Jun 08 08:46:24 <hhurtta> RST38h: for meego and linux usage too?
Jun 08 08:46:49 <RST38h> of course
Jun 08 08:46:58 <Termana> This must all be legit, hhurtta is in Finland and RST38h is in the US
Jun 08 08:47:04 <Termana> They secretly work for each of the companies
Jun 08 08:47:13 * Termana poker face
Jun 08 08:47:18 <chem|st> mrdongle: buy a n900 and stick with maemo for now, you will be impressed... that your phone data is not shared via google or itunes^^
Jun 08 08:47:19 <hhurtta> tee hee, u got me
Jun 08 08:47:34 <mrdongle> thank you
Jun 08 08:47:42 <hhurtta> again, buying n900 right now would be really silly...
Jun 08 08:47:50 <Termana> chem|st, wow
Jun 08 08:47:57 <chem|st> hhurtta: why?
Jun 08 08:47:58 <Termana> I didn't realise you had that much influence on people
Jun 08 08:48:07 <Termana> You said it and that made him decide and leave
Jun 08 08:48:12 <Termana> Can you sell my products?
Jun 08 08:48:14 <Termana> :p
Jun 08 08:48:24 <hhurtta> chem|st: all signs show that Nokia will be pushing a new linux device out soon
Jun 08 08:48:25 <chem|st> Termana: marketing strategies^^
Jun 08 08:48:39 <chem|st> hhurtta: and I will buy another n900!
Jun 08 08:48:43 <RST38h> Buying anything right now would be really silly. The phones have become commoditized, they are all the same (i.e. Android), cost about the same, have same specs, and improve them at the same rate
Jun 08 08:49:18 <RST38h> So, no point in buying until something really special comes up =)
Jun 08 08:49:26 <Termana> RST38h, which is why we should all buy iPhones. Everyone knows they are the leaders! ;)
Jun 08 08:49:27 <chem|st> hhurtta: and if I do not want a capacitive power phone I have to stick with n900
Jun 08 08:49:28 <kuzak> buying is overrated, do-it-yourself
Jun 08 08:49:49 <hhurtta> chem|st: in that case yes
Jun 08 08:49:51 <chem|st> Termana: and the compass is 15° off
Jun 08 08:51:01 <Termana> chem|st, I thought the compass was just a joke and that it always pointed to Cupertino. "Go the Apple way and your always going the right way!"
Jun 08 08:51:04 <chem|st> Termana: what products
Jun 08 08:52:09 <Termana> chem|st, I sell myself and I like it. No, I don't have any products, I just said that to add emphasis to the joke.
Jun 08 08:53:03 <chem|st> Termana: I could sell you!
Jun 08 08:53:16 <chem|st> I could sell water to a draining man!
Jun 08 09:36:31 <siovene> Hello.
Jun 08 09:36:43 <siovene> Are MNotifications supposed to work on the tablet UX?
Jun 08 09:37:22 <siovene> I'm trying "mnotificationtool" from a MeeGo chroot that launched the tablet UX with "startmeego-debug-tablet", but nothing seems to happen.
Jun 08 09:40:15 <w00t> siovene: from what I know, they should
Jun 08 09:40:50 <w00t> meego-ux-daemon is responsible for them, afair
Jun 08 09:41:46 <siovene> w00t: well it's running.
Jun 08 09:42:17 <siovene> dbus-monitor shows nothing relevant but these two lines:
Jun 08 09:42:18 <siovene> method call sender=:1.36 -> dest=org.freedesktop.DBus serial=5 path=/org/freedesktop/DBus; interface=org.freedesktop.DBus; member=RemoveMatch
Jun 08 09:42:20 <siovene>    string "type='signal',sender='org.freedesktop.DBus',interface='org.freedesktop.DBus',member='NameOwnerChanged',arg0='com.meego.core.MNotificationManager'"
Jun 08 09:42:31 <w00t> there's definitely code for it: https://meego.gitorious.org/meego-ux/meego-ux-daemon/blobs/master/application.cpp
Jun 08 09:43:18 <siovene> Yeah it looks like it.
Jun 08 09:43:51 <siovene> But I noticed that there are no event types predefined in /usr/share/meegotouc/, so I created /usr/share/meegotouch/notification/eventtypes/test.conf.
Jun 08 09:44:16 <siovene> And I'm using mnotificatintool with the following arguments: -a add test "Test" "This is a test."
Jun 08 09:45:00 * w00t doesn't know anything more about MNotification, unfortunately
Jun 08 11:00:47 <lbt_train> phaeron: ping
Jun 08 11:07:07 <phaeron> lbt_train: pong
Jun 08 11:08:55 <CosmoHill> hey MeeGoExperts
Jun 08 11:08:55 <lbt_train> phaeron: just checking in
Jun 08 11:09:14 <lbt_train> phaeron: all OK?
Jun 08 11:09:26 <MeeGoExperts> Hi
Jun 08 11:09:30 <MeeGoExperts> How goes it ?
Jun 08 11:09:42 <phaeron> yes
Jun 08 11:09:48 <lbt_train> hey Ash
Jun 08 11:09:58 <phaeron> lbt_train: are you here yet
Jun 08 11:10:23 <lbt_train> phaeron: OK - I spoke to valtteri about getting a better MeeGo/OBS relationship established
Jun 08 11:10:23 <lbt_train> nope
Jun 08 11:10:31 <lbt_train> 30min to Hel... then Metro trip
Jun 08 11:12:16 <lbt_train> so any discussion points to mention now?
Jun 08 11:14:54 <lcuk> http://wiki.meego.com/User_talk:Lcuk#Single_partition_installation_vs_Dual_Part_installation.
Jun 08 11:15:26 <lcuk> hmmmm
Jun 08 11:15:27 <lcuk> hmmmm
Jun 08 11:15:29 <lcuk> hmmmm
Jun 08 11:24:32 <lbt_train> lcuk you are evil
Jun 08 11:24:41 <lbt_train> please don't use your home area for drafts
Jun 08 11:25:08 <lcuk> hm?
Jun 08 11:25:34 <lbt_train> that link
Jun 08 11:25:36 <lcuk> where should I put such a document
Jun 08 11:25:49 <lcuk> I just wanted to start writing up my notes about this work
Jun 08 11:25:51 <lbt_train> N900 DE features
Jun 08 11:26:06 <lbt_train> talk for that page maybe
Jun 08 11:26:06 <lcuk> yes I know, but it is not a document yet
Jun 08 11:26:22 <lbt_train> have you *seen*I the wilki
Jun 08 11:26:31 <lcuk> it is just things I have been thinking about and trying to get head right
Jun 08 11:26:31 <lcuk> yes
Jun 08 11:26:45 <lcuk> and I am trying my best not to make it worse by doing it here first :P
Jun 08 11:27:23 <lbt_train> I really think it's better to use the talk page
Jun 08 11:27:41 <lbt_train> people are too shy about collaborating
Jun 08 11:27:41 <lbt_train> so they do it in a corner
Jun 08 11:27:49 * lbt_train wants lcuk  to show the way
Jun 08 11:27:56 <lcuk> ok :)
Jun 08 11:28:04 <lcuk> I will move these notes into proper place
Jun 08 11:28:05 <lbt_train> :)
Jun 08 11:28:31 <lcuk> but there are real issues with updates and backup/restore functionality with the current methods for installing
Jun 08 11:28:46 <lbt_train> totally agree
Jun 08 11:28:51 <lcuk> the n900 is lucky that it has eMMC even available
Jun 08 11:30:23 <lbt_train> phaeron: tell ramez when I'm arriving please :)
Jun 08 11:33:18 <phaeron> lbt_train: done
Jun 08 11:33:49 <LoCusF> lbt_train: hey
Jun 08 11:41:18 <lcuk> lbt_away, msugano_, jukka, Stskeeps  http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/DataManagement
Jun 08 11:46:30 <Jaffa> Hmm, I literally am now Google to find (the detail of) the answer to "What is a PNG?"
Jun 08 11:51:23 <lcuk> lol Jaffa
Jun 08 11:52:46 <Jaffa> s/Google/Googling/
Jun 08 11:52:46 <infobot> Jaffa meant: Hmm, I literally am now Googling to find (the detail of) the answer to "What is a PNG?"
Jun 08 11:54:41 <lcuk> Jaffa, what does it tell you
Jun 08 12:02:36 <siovene> Hi again. I can't seem to be able to install sources with zypper. This is my repos.d/oss.conf: http://pastebin.com/3F3wAMTY ; zypper refresh tells me that everything is up-to-date from the sources repository, but when I try to "zypper si something" that something is ever found.
Jun 08 12:02:43 <siovene> Does anyone know how to solve this?
Jun 08 12:08:25 <maitrey__> has anyone tried netbook images recently that boot up?
Jun 08 12:22:10 <Jaffa> lcuk: There's 8 bytes that I want
Jun 08 12:30:36 <bkalinga> meegotouch-demos what this package contains
Jun 08 12:30:58 <bkalinga> i am looking for a package that contains widgetsgallery?
Jun 08 12:31:05 <alterego> Does anyone know how I can embed an external text file into wiki.meego.com?
Jun 08 12:31:21 <bkalinga> can some one please point me to that package
Jun 08 12:34:25 <andre__> bkalinga, so try that one?
Jun 08 12:34:40 <bkalinga> is that the correct one
Jun 08 12:35:24 <andre__> alterego: what is "embed" in this case? an <iframe> for a malicious javascript? :-P
Jun 08 12:35:42 <alterego> No a text file
Jun 08 12:35:59 <alterego> Want to embed this: https://meego.gitorious.org/meego-handset-ux/meego-handset-dialer/blobs/master/TODO
Jun 08 12:36:00 <andre__> I don't see a good reason why embedding rom 3rd party URLs should be allowed...
Jun 08 12:36:04 <alterego> Into the dialer wiki page.
Jun 08 12:37:00 <andre__> hmm. don't think that's doable...
Jun 08 12:37:06 <alterego> Oh well :)
Jun 08 12:37:24 <bkalinga> andre__: thanks, that was the correct guess from me it contains widgetsgallery
Jun 08 12:37:38 <alterego> Maybe I could write a seperate script that just periodically updates the wiki page from that file ..
Jun 08 12:37:43 <andre__> alterego, if there's nothing in the help, feel free to file a request in bmc? however from a security point of view, hmm.
Jun 08 12:37:51 <alterego> andre__: I agree,
Jun 08 12:38:03 <andre__> or move the content to the wiki and just add the wiki URL in that file? ;-)
Jun 08 12:38:10 <alterego> Hmm
Jun 08 12:38:18 <alterego> Don't like that idea much :P
Jun 08 12:38:37 <alterego> We should make the TODO file auto generate on commit from bugzilla :P
Jun 08 12:39:13 <bkalinga> I don't find the messaging application in the tablet UX
Jun 08 12:39:28 <bkalinga> can someone tell me what is the binary name for this
Jun 08 12:41:54 <andre__> alterego: I think there is something integrated that can automatically query and display in a wikipage the status of a bug report, but maybe we only had that in the Maemo wiki and not also in the MeeGo one
Jun 08 12:46:04 <mikhas> andre__, alterego, you mean http://fpaste.org/QSfZ/ ?
Jun 08 12:46:38 <mikhas> can be used in MeeGo wiki
Jun 08 12:46:48 <andre__> yay
Jun 08 12:48:56 <lcuk> Facebook: For answering important questions in life.
Jun 08 12:49:22 <iekku> lcuk, :D
Jun 08 12:52:18 <bkalinga> can someone tell the application name of the messging in tablet UX
Jun 08 12:53:53 <alterego> Yeah, I know there's a way to embed bugs, we're already doing that.
Jun 08 12:53:58 <alterego> But the TODO list is somewhat seperate
Jun 08 12:54:02 <lcuk> :D
Jun 08 12:54:17 <lcuk> alterego, you are certainly embedding bugs :P
Jun 08 12:54:21 <lcuk> and as for lists
Jun 08 12:54:22 <lcuk> * item1
Jun 08 12:54:26 <lcuk> * item2
Jun 08 12:54:32 <lcuk> ** item2.a
Jun 08 12:54:34 <lcuk> ** item2.b
Jun 08 12:54:35 <lcuk> ** item2.c
Jun 08 12:54:39 <lcuk> * item3
Jun 08 12:54:41 <lcuk> etc
Jun 08 12:54:54 <alterego> Yeah, but we don't want to seperately maintain the text TODO File in git and the wikipage.
Jun 08 12:54:55 <lcuk> and you can do strikethrough on those items
Jun 08 12:54:58 <alterego> It doesn't matter.
Jun 08 12:55:03 <lcuk> ahh
Jun 08 12:55:11 <alterego> I'll talk to sabotage later and see what he wants to do now.
Jun 08 12:57:46 <lcuk> linking to a repository is good though
Jun 08 12:57:56 <lcuk> maemo garage did something not too disimilar
Jun 08 12:58:05 <lcuk> the SVN repository could contain web pages for the project
Jun 08 12:58:18 <lcuk> and so they were linked together
Jun 08 13:02:37 <lcuk> ello Ash \o
Jun 08 13:12:32 <slaine> Hmmm, market speculation on Samsung preparing to buy out Nokia
Jun 08 13:12:33 <slaine> http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20110608-703354.html
Jun 08 13:12:56 <thiago> last week it was Microsoft
Jun 08 13:13:01 <thiago> now it's Samsung?
Jun 08 13:13:36 <thiago> sounds like the rumours I've heard for the Nokia MeeGo device back 6 months ago
Jun 08 13:13:49 <SpeedEvil> All it needs for the stock price to fall a little further, and it'll be CarPhoneWarehouse.
Jun 08 13:13:50 <slaine> thiago: the ever fickle rumor mill
Jun 08 13:14:05 <thiago> first they thought it was OMAP4. Then someone said an Intel Atom. Then I heard NVidia Tegra2. I also heard Qualcomm Snapdragon.
Jun 08 13:14:12 <thiago> recently, I heard ST Ericsson
Jun 08 13:14:23 <thiago> the only thing I didn't hear was MIPS...
Jun 08 13:14:34 <slaine> They where probably disappointed that MS hasn't already bought them so fired up another rumor to try and get one of them to come true.
Jun 08 13:15:07 <iekku>  /win 37
Jun 08 13:15:09 <iekku> lkaöhdsglkdhglkds
Jun 08 13:16:41 <Sage> phaeron: ping. So what has been enabled on the DE from BOSS more then before?
Jun 08 14:05:35 * lcuk looks sideways at the data screen and n900 and wonders how we can make it work
Jun 08 14:05:40 <lcuk> link: == Introduction ==
Jun 08 14:05:40 <lcuk> One of the most important aspects of a working system is Data Management.
Jun 08 14:05:40 <lcuk> During the lifetime of a running system, data and configuration details are setup with the expectation that they are secure.
Jun 08 14:05:40 <lcuk> Ensuring that the data you create and configure on your device is sustained is a high priority.
Jun 08 14:05:40 <lcuk> The notes on this page are a starting point to ensuring the various aspects of this are catered for.
Jun 08 14:05:42 <lcuk> The scope of this document is currently aimed towards the N900-DE, however the principles are expected for MeeGo globally.
Jun 08 14:05:45 <lcuk> '''Please help to expand upon this document'''
Jun 08 14:05:46 <lcuk> == Single partition installation vs Dual Part installation. ==
Jun 08 14:05:49 <lcuk> Maemo device installation consists of 2 parts:
Jun 08 14:05:51 <lcuk> * RootFS Code partition.
Jun 08 14:05:53 <lcuk> * eMMC Data Partition
Jun 08 14:05:55 <lcuk> MeeGo Installation consists of 1 part:
Jun 08 14:05:57 <lcuk> * RootFS Code + Data Partition.
Jun 08 14:06:00 <lcuk> With Maemo, it is possible for the Backup tool to store User data onto the eMMC and ensure that between installations the data is safe and can be restored from.
Jun 08 14:06:04 <lcuk> MeeGo however has no such ability.
Jun 08 14:06:06 <lcuk> Even the Netbook is an all-in-one installation.
Jun 08 14:06:08 <lcuk> This causes serious problems for data during updates or reinstallations.
Jun 08 14:06:10 <lcuk> The following application requests and points are based around having this problem solved.
Jun 08 14:06:12 <lcuk> The N900 device is *lucky* to have the eMMC available (even if not used at present)
Jun 08 14:06:14 <lcuk> Other MeeGo devices may not have such a device/data storage area available.
Jun 08 14:06:15 <lcuk> == Backup/Restore application is needed. ==
Jun 08 14:06:18 <lcuk> Now we can get on networks and get past initialisation issues, a mechanism to Backup/Restore data between reflashing is necessary.
Jun 08 14:06:21 <lcuk> Added complexity for N900-de is that the whole "image" is on one partition which is overwritten by each image flashed.
Jun 08 14:06:24 <lcuk> * Possibilities
Jun 08 14:06:26 <lcuk> ** Use eMMC from maemo to store MeeGo N900-DE backup data files
Jun 08 14:06:28 <lcuk> ** Change the N900-DE image so that MicroSD is partitioned into Code (regular flash) and Data (similar to eMMC)
Jun 08 14:06:33 <lcuk> ** make a compatible data Backup/Restore application and store alongside Maemo backup files (very hard)
Jun 08 14:06:35 <lcuk> A suggestion from IRC:
Jun 08 14:06:37 <lcuk> * <KaIRC> lcuk: and given that Ya
Jun 08 14:06:39 <lcuk> :O
Jun 08 14:06:49 * w00t smacks lcuk with a large trout
Jun 08 14:07:09 <lcuk> well I just increased my line count for this channel quite a bit
Jun 08 14:07:32 <lcuk> I obviously meant to paste: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/DataManagement
Jun 08 14:07:41 <lcuk> which is the same content as there
Jun 08 14:08:26 <lcuk> strangely w00t I wonder where the other complaints are
Jun 08 14:08:57 * lbt_hel complains
Jun 08 14:09:04 <lcuk> :D
Jun 08 14:09:14 <lcuk> well you asked me to move it in the first place:P
Jun 08 14:09:19 <lbt_hel> I did
Jun 08 14:09:24 <lbt_hel> it was a small complaint
Jun 08 14:09:25 <lcuk> so no complaints from you - it would not have been in my paste buffer
Jun 08 14:10:01 <lcuk> I do wonder how generically meego can be made to sustain data
Jun 08 14:10:02 <rgs_> any ideas where the repo for chrome-meego-extension is?
Jun 08 14:10:03 <lcuk> on different devices
Jun 08 14:12:00 <lcuk> question: On meego tablet UX, or even wetab or exopc etc
Jun 08 14:12:06 <lcuk> how do you backup your data?
Jun 08 14:12:20 <lcuk> rgs_, use zypper on the device
Jun 08 14:12:30 <lcuk> it will tell you a repository afaik (zypper info ...)
Jun 08 14:12:35 <lcuk> then you can dive into obs
Jun 08 14:12:57 <gabrbedd> rgs_: What do you mean?  It's in the normal packages repo.
Jun 08 14:13:10 <gabrbedd> rgs_: E.g. http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.2.0.90/1.2.0.90.3.20110607.2/repos/oss/ia32/packages/i586/
Jun 08 14:13:19 <lcuk> hi gabrbedd
Jun 08 14:13:19 <rgs_> gabrbedd: meant the VCS
Jun 08 14:13:29 <Bostik> hmmmhh.. I might be tempted to pull my thesis project from naphtaline once more and see if I can finally implement the "personal, private cloud storage"
Jun 08 14:13:58 <rgs_> lcuk: sorry - meant its VCS (git, svn)
Jun 08 14:18:20 <gabrbedd> rgs_: I don't know.  It might now have one.
Jun 08 14:18:38 <lcuk> gabrbedd, with your historical device work for indamixx do you provide assistance/apps for backingup/restoring their data created
Jun 08 14:18:50 <lcuk> or have you historically left that layer to the operating system underneath
Jun 08 14:19:11 <gabrbedd> rgs_: Ask the people in the changelog (rpm -q --changelog chrome-meego-extension)
Jun 08 14:19:22 <rgs_> gabrbedd: will do, thanks
Jun 08 14:19:24 <gabrbedd> rgs_: The dude at the top is known as Sage on IRC.
Jun 08 14:19:28 <lcuk> (I ask because backup/restore was something we had to provide for the non-technical users
Jun 08 14:19:34 <rgs_> gabrbedd: ah, great pointer
Jun 08 14:19:51 <rgs_> Sage: is there a git (svn?) repo for chrome-meego-extensions somewhere?
Jun 08 14:20:09 <gabrbedd> lcuk: No, we haven't really gone there, yet.
Jun 08 14:20:26 <lcuk> gabrbedd, roger
Jun 08 14:20:51 <gabrbedd> lcuk: But it's generally as "simple" as backing up your $HOME folder... so we haven't tried to get all fancy with it.
Jun 08 14:21:10 <lcuk> gabrbedd, that of course assumes you have somewhere to backup to
Jun 08 14:21:17 <lcuk> and that restoration is as simple
Jun 08 14:21:49 <Sage> gabrbedd, rgs_: ???
Jun 08 14:21:49 <lcuk> with apps we used to do, the data was organised into datasets and backing up portions thereof was capable
Jun 08 14:21:58 <lcuk> like the home folder, but for the apps we wrote only
Jun 08 14:22:17 * CosmoHill got min 50% for his database exam :(
Jun 08 14:22:25 <gabrbedd> Sage: rgs_ is just looking for the VCS repo for chrome-meego-extension.
Jun 08 14:22:29 <lcuk> :( CosmoHill
Jun 08 14:22:45 <CosmoHill> mucked it up on query optimisation
Jun 08 14:22:50 <lcuk> did you get told where you went wrong?
Jun 08 14:22:52 <lcuk> ahh
Jun 08 14:22:59 <CosmoHill> not really
Jun 08 14:23:12 <CosmoHill> they're still being  marked and I didn't want to interrupt
Jun 08 14:23:17 <berndhs> CosmoHill: I took the undergrad database course twice, total mark 100% :)
Jun 08 14:23:39 <Sage> rgs_: ah, I don't know where that is.
Jun 08 14:23:44 <CosmoHill> I'm pretty sure most of the stuff I learn could be a degree in it's own right
Jun 08 14:24:25 <gabrbedd> lcuk: Well, the most important data for our customers is huge.  Large sample libraries, etc.  Backing that up requires a lot of server space... so we haven't gone there (yet).
Jun 08 14:24:36 <Sage> rgs_, gabrbedd: The reason I'm on the top is because nobody else bothered to fix the arm builds. I would ask from Hongbo Min about that git tree
Jun 08 14:24:39 <CosmoHill> I'm done GUI design, databases, security, computer systems, image processing and other bits
Jun 08 14:24:57 <lcuk> gabrbedd, software + usb sticks are common nowadays
Jun 08 14:25:00 <gabrbedd> lcuk: In addition, the most important applications allow the user to save their data "wherever".  This also makes it hard to set up an automated tool.
Jun 08 14:25:05 <gabrbedd> Sage: Thank you.
Jun 08 14:25:46 <lcuk> gabrbedd, it is easy to put data into wrong places, I come from area that has preconfigured databases
Jun 08 14:25:50 <lcuk> EPOS systems and the like
Jun 08 14:26:02 <CosmoHill> gabrbedd: tell that to the ovi suite, damn thing uses an absolute path meaning if you move it from one folder to another or computer you need to edit the sqlite database
Jun 08 14:26:19 <lcuk> at end of the day their currently configured data is backed up and taken offsites - general best working practice stuff
Jun 08 14:26:33 <lcuk> I know it is different with handsets and even slates for recreational data
Jun 08 14:26:45 <lcuk> but if users are actually using the devices to create
Jun 08 14:26:50 <lcuk> it should be sustainable
Jun 08 14:27:47 * lcuk has written backup/syncing tools for large UK based soft furnishing stores :)
Jun 08 14:29:29 <gabrbedd> lcuk: agreed.
Jun 08 14:33:14 <lcuk> gabrbedd, speaking of huge datasets
Jun 08 14:33:25 <lcuk> how do they get those large samples onto the slate device now?
Jun 08 14:33:30 <lcuk> what transport mechanism?
Jun 08 14:34:05 <gabrbedd> lcuk: In the past it's done using a USB stick.
Jun 08 14:34:19 <lcuk> ok, so large but not unreasonably so
Jun 08 14:34:50 <gabrbedd> lcuk: So getting automount back into tablet UX is on my to-do list.
Jun 08 14:35:06 <gabrbedd> lcuk: The samples themselves are reasonable (e.g. a 5MB WAV file)...
Jun 08 14:35:10 <lcuk> gabrbedd, do you have a bug# for that?
Jun 08 14:35:40 <gabrbedd> lcuk: The "large" comes from the fact that they have so many of them.
Jun 08 14:36:09 <lcuk> yeah saample libraries
Jun 08 14:36:14 <gabrbedd> lcuk: No, and I haven't looked, either.
Jun 08 14:36:51 <gabrbedd> lcuk: I doubt there'll be one for the 1.2 branch, so I'm expecting it to be a DIY thing.
Jun 08 14:37:23 <lcuk> at one of the firms my mum used to do the it management for, she noted with a huge sigh that microsoft outlook was used to store architecture documents (from autocad)
Jun 08 14:37:28 <gabrbedd> lcuk: but I've tried to put out feelers to find out intel's release plans for tablet ux.
Jun 08 14:37:56 <lcuk> well as you know, having a bug allows you to start a conversation
Jun 08 14:38:30 <lcuk> it gives you something to say "I found this did not work, it should really be working because all the other operating systems support it"
Jun 08 14:40:00 <gabrbedd> lcuk: I may go back to that... but since it's intel I've been going through private e-mails.... and that seems to get better results.
Jun 08 14:40:36 * lcuk should send some private emails
Jun 08 14:41:04 <lcuk> offtopic now
Jun 08 14:41:08 <lcuk> hmm
Jun 08 14:41:10 <lcuk> where is dawn
Jun 08 14:41:29 <thiago> waking up soon
Jun 08 14:41:55 <gabrbedd> lcuk: FWIW, Intel is clearly improving in this area.  But you can't plow fields overnight.
Jun 08 14:42:27 <lcuk> thiago, was just curious then since I usually type dawn and it autocompletes
Jun 08 14:42:54 <lcuk> gabrbedd, yes, and if meego can improve in the flexibility direction, perhaps we can make the computing world a little simpler
Jun 08 14:43:13 <lcuk> and you can plow fields overnight
Jun 08 14:43:17 <lcuk> tractors have headlights.
Jun 08 14:43:41 <gabrbedd> lcuk: It's clear that 1.3 is the goal for Tablet UX.  The only question is whether there'll be anything useful in 1.2.x.
Jun 08 14:43:55 <Stskeeps> gabrbedd: you read meego-releases?
Jun 08 14:44:07 <Stskeeps> gabrbedd: september is a sueful release
Jun 08 14:44:21 <gabrbedd> lcuk: And the tablet ux guys are indeed doing lots of work on it. :-)
Jun 08 14:44:26 <Stskeeps> useful
Jun 08 14:44:26 <gabrbedd> Stskeeps: sueful?
Jun 08 14:44:46 <Stskeeps> gabrbedd: check the 1.2 release plan wiki page, it is informative
Jun 08 14:45:06 * gabrbedd is checking...
Jun 08 14:52:02 <gabrbedd> Stskeeps: as best as I can tell from that page... there won't be a useful tablet ux release in 1.2.1.
Jun 08 14:53:06 <Stskeeps> gabrbedd: they're bugfixing like mad
Jun 08 14:54:34 <lcukabc> stskeeps, who?
Jun 08 14:54:50 <w00t> the tablet people
Jun 08 14:54:50 <Stskeeps> lcukabc: watch meego-commits
Jun 08 14:56:58 <gabrbedd> Stskeeps: Yes they are.  But will new features (e.g. automount) be accepted for 1.2.1?
Jun 08 14:57:38 <Stskeeps> gabrbedd: ah, in that regard
Jun 08 14:57:49 <Stskeeps> doubt it, thats 1.3 land
Jun 08 14:59:51 <gabrbedd> Stskeeps: :-)
Jun 08 15:00:28 <lcukabc> gabrbedd: does netbook ux have automount?
Jun 08 15:02:19 <gabrbedd> lcukabc: AFAIK, yes.
Jun 08 15:03:14 <lcuk> gabrbedd, so the issue is the UX not listening for the right signals?
Jun 08 15:03:21 <gabrbedd> Stskeeps: But since the Tablet UX wasn't /technically/ released in 1.2 -- perhaps there'll be an exception if the features are ready.  Dunno.
Jun 08 15:03:25 <lcuk> because I would imagine that would be backend
Jun 08 15:03:56 <Stskeeps> gabrbedd: think 1.2.1 might be official one
Jun 08 15:04:23 <gabrbedd> Stskeeps: right.
Jun 08 15:06:04 <gabrbedd> lcuk: Even if there was someone listening for the event... currently there's no way to present it to the user (i.e. file manager).  So all that has to be written.
Jun 08 15:06:44 <gabrbedd> And I'm sure that it will be written.
Jun 08 15:07:13 <lcuk> green code.
Jun 08 15:07:47 <lcuk> by the time it is feature complete and stable, there will be framework2 to replace it.
Jun 08 15:09:10 * gabrbedd is ignoring that comment. :-p
Jun 08 15:10:06 <berndhs> let's minimize the marketing lingo in here :)
Jun 08 15:10:42 <lcuk> good morning fiferboy
Jun 08 15:10:56 <lcuk> (I typed fifi then which maybe more appropriate :P
Jun 08 15:11:07 <gabrbedd> berndhs: You just need to embrace agile development in the cloud.
Jun 08 15:11:48 <lcuk> what does PNG mean?
Jun 08 15:11:59 <SpeedEvil> Penis Not Good?
Jun 08 15:11:59 <berndhs> yeah, and strictly follow the day-by-day plan for agile methods
Jun 08 15:12:16 <lcuk> groan
Jun 08 15:12:33 * RST38h politely asks the Tentacled One to punish (through eating or sexual intercourse) the authors of C++ textbooks and the instructors teaching with these textbooks, summarily
Jun 08 15:12:42 <hena> portable network graphics iirc
Jun 08 15:12:46 <RST38h> Ah, hi lcuk
Jun 08 15:12:56 <lcuk> hi RST38h
Jun 08 15:13:03 * lcuk ponders writing a book o_O
Jun 08 15:13:37 * lcuk wonders how many books in the bookshop are typed up in handwriting
Jun 08 15:13:49 * RST38h suggests starting with idiots who dogmatically require accessor functions for every public class data member
Jun 08 15:14:10 <lcuk> RST38h, that is for a different reason
Jun 08 15:14:35 <lcuk> the location of the datamember may change and the data member itself may be replaced by a short shell function
Jun 08 15:14:40 <lcuk> in subclasses
Jun 08 15:14:46 <RST38h> lcuk: There is exactly 1 (one) real reason for that
Jun 08 15:14:48 <lcuk> so having members is positively pushed
Jun 08 15:15:07 <RST38h> And a variety of just-in-case reasons you have just offered
Jun 08 15:15:12 <lcuk> well RST38h
Jun 08 15:15:15 <berndhs> if the data member is already public, the damage is done
Jun 08 15:15:23 <lcuk> if you could in code *use* the data member natively
Jun 08 15:15:31 <lcuk> ie object->property + 10
Jun 08 15:15:40 <lcuk> then it wouldn't even be a concern to you
Jun 08 15:15:49 <lcuk> but it seems you have to needlessly add ();
Jun 08 15:15:57 <lcuk> which just sux
Jun 08 15:16:11 <RST38h> lcuk: I can always do (char *)&object+20
Jun 08 15:16:19 * lcuk liked visual basic property declarations
Jun 08 15:16:22 <lcuk> lol
Jun 08 15:16:27 <RST38h> lcuk: So, if I want to shoot myself in the foot this particular way, I always can, accessors or not
Jun 08 15:16:56 <lcuk> that is like playing with a pinata
Jun 08 15:17:18 <fiferboy> Afternoon lcuk
Jun 08 15:17:37 <RST38h> lcuk: What I really hate though is having to maintain a 100kB+ header files (!) 80% consisitng of accessors
Jun 08 15:18:05 <lcuk> fiferboy, can you take a peek at this page and let me know your observations please http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/DataManagement
Jun 08 15:18:12 <lcuk> RST38h, sure
Jun 08 15:18:23 <lcuk> if the language would dyna create such things
Jun 08 15:18:32 <lcuk> for public data members
Jun 08 15:18:39 <RST38h> lcuk: Just because someone *thought* he *would* need them *sometime*
Jun 08 15:18:44 <lcuk> without specifying in the header - it was just intrinsic
Jun 08 15:18:59 <lcuk> and obviously if you code them specifically for the few
Jun 08 15:18:59 <RST38h> lcuk: Would be a horrible language, another layer of complexity
Jun 08 15:19:03 <berndhs> question is, why are these data members public ?
Jun 08 15:19:04 <lcuk> then you get best of both
Jun 08 15:19:15 <RST38h> berndhs: let us just say they have to be
Jun 08 15:19:38 <RST38h> berndhs: happens. not every object is like an orange, in spite of what you have read in an OOP book :)
Jun 08 15:19:49 <lcuk> fruit class!
Jun 08 15:19:50 <berndhs> well, then I just say they don't, with equal justification :)
Jun 08 15:20:03 <lcuk> I especially liked those lessons
Jun 08 15:20:11 <RST38h> berndhs: You do not know what the class is doing, while I do.
Jun 08 15:20:13 <fiferboy> lcuk: "MeeGo however has no such ability" - surely this is only in the current default scheme
Jun 08 15:20:26 <lcuk> fiferboy, yes
Jun 08 15:20:29 <fiferboy> lcuk: With netbook and tablet installs you can alter the parition scheme and create a home partition
Jun 08 15:20:29 <berndhs> yes but you won't give a reason, so I don't have to believe you
Jun 08 15:20:30 <lcuk> change it then?
Jun 08 15:20:53 <fiferboy> lcuk: Well, for other installs like the N900 there is no option at install time to alter it
Jun 08 15:20:55 <lcuk> fiferboy, altering the partition scheme is something most people would cower in a corner gibbering at
Jun 08 15:21:01 <fiferboy> So it is still true in some cases
Jun 08 15:21:11 <fiferboy> lcuk: I definitely agree with that
Jun 08 15:21:18 <lcuk> I am trying to find a nice user friendly way
Jun 08 15:21:26 <lcuk> similar to how maemo works
Jun 08 15:21:43 <fiferboy> Like having the default scheme provide a separate home partition
Jun 08 15:21:45 <lcuk> because the 2 partition types, one for long lasting data (photos, backups, movies) and the other main os
Jun 08 15:21:58 <fiferboy> That is a good idea
Jun 08 15:22:26 <lcuk> it was something maemo got right for the device type
Jun 08 15:22:36 <lcuk> I doubt it can easily be done for the other types
Jun 08 15:22:48 <lcuk> but certainly is good to consider and discuss
Jun 08 15:23:05 <fiferboy> But even with maemo there was some user information stored outside the persistant partition
Jun 08 15:23:14 <lcuk> yes
Jun 08 15:23:19 <fiferboy> Application settings, for example, which is where the backup/restore comes in
Jun 08 15:23:20 <lcuk> that is where the backup tool works
Jun 08 15:23:37 <lcuk> *that* stored the information required in eMMC
Jun 08 15:23:48 <fiferboy> Right
Jun 08 15:24:19 <lcuk> I wonder whether bringing over the same backup tool maemo uses
Jun 08 15:24:21 <lcuk> into meego
Jun 08 15:24:32 <lcuk> or at the very least, data compatible version
Jun 08 15:24:34 <lardman> being able to communicate with an external PC e.g. based program would be good
Jun 08 15:24:42 <fiferboy> Sorry, my original comment on partitioning wasn't very relevant to this article
Jun 08 15:24:51 <fiferboy> I forgot that this is *N900* data management
Jun 08 15:24:53 <lardman> as that's where people will back stuff up before flashing Meego onto the N900
Jun 08 15:25:07 <lcuk> ok lardman and of course
Jun 08 15:25:14 <lcuk> that scenario would work for any form factor then
Jun 08 15:25:15 <fiferboy> I missed the entire purpose of the article before commenting, oopsie
Jun 08 15:25:20 <lcuk> even something like meego-tv
Jun 08 15:25:39 <lcuk> fiferboy, no problem, the rticle/postings were just the things I could recall
Jun 08 15:25:43 <lcuk> and problems we have
Jun 08 15:25:55 <lcuk> I will put this conversation in as a sub page also :)
Jun 08 15:26:36 <lcuk> lardman, with maemo plugging into USB and copying data is one thing
Jun 08 15:26:56 <lcuk> would you want to copy GBs of data over wifi from gabrbedd's machine with sample libraries
Jun 08 15:27:05 <lcuk> for example
Jun 08 15:27:14 <lardman> well the pc suite stuff is an rndis connection, so just support backup over the network anyway
Jun 08 15:27:33 <lardman> well yeah if that's his data that he wants backed up
Jun 08 15:27:38 <gabrbedd> RST38h: I agree.  I usually manage those with templates.  E.g. a template class called ReadWriteProperty<T>.
Jun 08 15:28:12 <lcuk> lardman, rndis?
Jun 08 15:28:20 <lardman> ethernet over usb
Jun 08 15:28:28 <lardman> for windows
Jun 08 15:28:36 <lcuk> ahh
Jun 08 15:28:56 <gabrbedd> RST38h: And another not-quit-as-nice ReadOnlyProperty<T>.
Jun 08 15:28:57 <lcuk> but that is which filesystem? on Maemo I thought only eMMC was accessible?
Jun 08 15:29:03 <lcuk> so requires the backup tool
Jun 08 15:29:14 <lcuk> gabrbedd, pastebin for those templates?
Jun 08 15:29:17 <lcuk> are they tiny?
Jun 08 15:31:10 <lcuk> lardman, I know ssh over usb works with the n900-de
Jun 08 15:31:31 <lcuk> and it offers access to the entire rootfs filesystem
Jun 08 15:31:36 <lcuk> so that would be feasible
Jun 08 15:31:38 <lardman> lcuk: well it's just a matter of writing the programs to sit on either end
Jun 08 15:31:45 <lardman> yes, should be reasonably simple
Jun 08 15:32:11 <lardman> though you'd need to authenticate, etc., for e.g. webtv
Jun 08 15:32:12 <lardman> s
Jun 08 15:33:43 <lcuk> lardman, the n900-de has root@168.168.2.15 with a default password
Jun 08 15:33:52 <lcuk> I guess that would need to be different
Jun 08 15:34:02 <lcuk> that is over usbnet
Jun 08 15:34:02 <gabrbedd> lcuk: ok, maybe later tho
Jun 08 15:34:13 <lcuk> gabrbedd, for sure
Jun 08 15:34:17 <lcuk> they sound interesting though :)
Jun 08 15:35:10 * lcuk giggles
Jun 08 15:35:35 <lcuk> fiferboy, I just wrote "fifier" in notes :P
Jun 08 15:39:07 <RST38h> gabrbedd: God, not templates, please...
Jun 08 15:39:12 <RST38h> ehlo javispedro
Jun 08 15:39:15 <gabrbedd> lcuk: Oh wait... here they are...
Jun 08 15:39:19 <gabrbedd> lcuk: http://gitorious.org/composite/composite/blobs/master/src/Composite/Util/Property.hpp
Jun 08 15:39:41 <gabrbedd> lcuk: http://gitorious.org/composite/composite/blobs/master/src/Composite/Util/ReadOnlyProperty.hpp
Jun 08 15:40:52 <fiferboy> lcuk, that's like calling you luck
Jun 08 15:41:36 <gabrbedd> lcuk: And an example of using ReadOnlyProperty is http://gitorious.org/composite/composite/blobs/master/src/Composite/Looks/Sizes.hpp
Jun 08 15:42:12 <gabrbedd> The template is used as a publicly accessible member variable with the get/set interface.
Jun 08 15:42:44 <gabrbedd> If you ever need to redo it, you just manually write the get/set.  But this saves a bunch of typing for the typical case.
Jun 08 15:42:56 <fiferboy> lcuk: Unless you somehow used it as an adjective meaning "to make things better"
Jun 08 15:43:08 <fiferboy> ie. I just made the article fifier
Jun 08 15:45:35 <lcuk> fiferboy, fifi is a little yappy poodle
Jun 08 15:46:40 * lcuk will not make that typo
Jun 08 15:48:44 <lcuk> fiferboy, we found out yesterday that one of the origins for Qt was a database app
Jun 08 15:50:38 <michelem> hello folks
Jun 08 15:50:54 <thiago> lcuk: huh?
Jun 08 15:51:12 <thiago> Qt was created out of a master thesis that was focusing on making a cross-platform toolkit
Jun 08 15:51:23 <michelem> help me figuring the boundary between meego and Linux: can I assume that whichever phone runs meego will also run a vanilla kernel? Are patches sent upstream?
Jun 08 15:51:43 <thiago> michelem: MeeGo tries to run a vanilla kernel
Jun 08 15:51:47 <thiago> but no, that's not a guarantee
Jun 08 15:52:03 <Stskeeps> it is certainly motivated, but not always possible
Jun 08 15:52:21 <thiago> there's no guarantee that any vanilla kernel is bug-free and capable of booting in that hardware or that the changes have been accepted
Jun 08 15:52:23 <michelem> thiago: still running meego i'll be able to count on sysfs et al then thou?
Jun 08 15:52:34 <thiago> yes
Jun 08 15:52:38 <Stskeeps> michelem: you can rely on 2.6.35 apis atm
Jun 08 15:52:49 <michelem> so meego is pretty a linux distribution
Jun 08 15:52:53 <thiago> yes
Jun 08 15:53:57 <michelem> sounds good. I have a system based on debian running on OpenMoko FreeRunner and I'm looking for alternative phones
Jun 08 15:54:18 <SpeedEvil> And also - there is no guarantee that patches for required hardware will be accepted upstream in a timely fashion.
Jun 08 15:54:44 <michelem> yes, but that's up to linux
Jun 08 15:55:01 <michelem> essentially, if it's not a fork-like approach it suits me
Jun 08 15:55:41 <thiago> that's the intention
Jun 08 15:55:48 <michelem> the Nokia N900 is the only phone running MeeGo?
Jun 08 15:56:18 <thiago> not the only one that can, others can too. But the N900 doesn't come with it by default.
Jun 08 15:56:27 <lcuk> thiago,
Jun 08 15:56:28 <lcuk> Haavard's interest in C++ GUI development began in 1988 when he was commissioned by a Swedish company to develop a C++ GUI framework. A couple of years later, in the summer of 1990, Haavard and Eirik were working together on a C++ database application for ultrasound images.
Jun 08 15:56:38 <lcuk> http://www.civilnet.cn/book/embedded/gui/qt4/pref04.html
Jun 08 15:56:58 <fiferboy> lcuk: I thought the origin ot Qt was for birding applications
Jun 08 15:57:08 <lcuk> me too fiferboy
Jun 08 15:57:20 <lcuk> everybody has their birdsong applications
Jun 08 15:57:21 <lcuk> :)
Jun 08 15:57:24 <thiago> maybe it was ultrasound of birds
Jun 08 15:58:06 <fiferboy> thiago: That makes sense to me
Jun 08 15:58:08 <thiago> anyway, Qt was the subject of one of their master thesis (or doctoral thesis)
Jun 08 15:58:29 <thiago> I've read parts of it. It's quite amazing how much still holds true.
Jun 08 15:58:43 <thiago> QObject was there, signals and slots were there, event filters, QMainWindow, QApplication
Jun 08 15:59:35 <thiago> the one major change in Qt 4 from the basic sample app they had was the absence of QApplication::setMainWidget
Jun 08 16:00:48 <lcuk> thiago, I recall you have been part of qt team for a long time yourself :)
Jun 08 16:05:57 * npm wishes for a meego tablet "le" (linux edition) :-) -- one that works with linux apps w/o issues.
Jun 08 16:06:33 <andyross> npm: "w/o issues" might be a little much to ask, but talk to gabrbedd for hints.  That's pretty much what he does.
Jun 08 16:09:27 <leinir> npm: well, help the plasma active get themselves a connman backend for the network management stuff, and your wish might just come true ;)
Jun 08 16:10:16 <gabrbedd> npm: easiest way is to switch WM to matchbox-window-manager (install package and edit /etc/sysconfig/uxlaunch)
Jun 08 16:11:25 <gabrbedd> npm: you'll still be using tablet ux, just with a different WM.
Jun 08 16:16:35 <iekku> gabrbedd, morning :)
Jun 08 16:19:03 <gabrbedd> iekku: hi iekku :-)
Jun 08 16:19:17 <iekku> hi there :D
Jun 08 16:19:35 <gabrbedd> It's about beer:30 for you, eh?
Jun 08 16:20:23 <berndhs> iekku this time of day ?
Jun 08 16:20:34 <berndhs> i'm confused
Jun 08 16:20:47 <iekku> hmm, it's 19:20 in here
Jun 08 16:22:11 <npm> gabrbedd: i installed matchbox but disabled it so it doesn't interfere w/ normal tablet ux
Jun 08 16:24:58 <npm> andyross: issues are simple low-hanging fruit like it not shipping with ntpd running because there's no chkconfig rules... or all the issues http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2011-June/004169.html http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2011-June/004182.html
Jun 08 16:26:26 <gabrbedd> lcuk: pretty unimpressive templates, huh?  Saves a lot of typing, tho.
Jun 08 16:26:35 <npm> really just a matter of having the devs eat their own dogfood and try to use the tablet w/apps that expect standard window management ( http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2011-May/483207.html )
Jun 08 16:26:59 <lcuk> gabrbedd, been afk repairing laptop
Jun 08 16:27:13 <lcuk> I glanced and left the window open for in a bit
Jun 08 16:27:58 <andyross> Unfortunately (or fortunately,  I guess) I think the current direction is exactly the opposite: make the meego-ux stuff work irrespective of existing window managers.   The voices in the kool-aid are telling everyone that it will all be on wayland soon anyway.
Jun 08 16:27:59 <npm> leinir: (hi!) ... will try it out... but also, am concerned of divergence between what will work w/ tablet-ux for app-up store, and what will actually work for usage by linux desktop users
Jun 08 16:28:03 <gabrbedd> lcuk: ah! nvm. :-)
Jun 08 16:28:46 <npm> part of the issue is that the tablet-ux needs to recognize if a decorating window manager is running, and if-so, let it do it's thing
Jun 08 16:28:56 <andyross> But from those lists: bluetooth on the exopc is just some missing device IDs.  The patch used to be carried but got dropped before 1.2.  It should be fixed in trunk now, and I don't see why it can't be backported.  A bugzilla bug would help (put me on the cc: andy.ross@windriver.com).
Jun 08 16:29:05 <gabrbedd> npm: MeeGo API will be fully supported.
Jun 08 16:29:18 <npm> and also not draw the back-to-1980's-x10 decorating windows within the app
Jun 08 16:29:23 <gabrbedd> npm: Platform API, not so much.
Jun 08 16:30:11 <gabrbedd> npm: Garden variety linux apps and platform API -- support will need to come from "the community"
Jun 08 16:30:24 <andyross> The crystalhd stuff apparently works, but no one here ever got it packaged.  And the HDMI output actually can be made to work using an oddball driver & userspace tool from the chromiumos project.  I forget the details, but see http://git.chromium.org/gitweb/?p=chrontel.git;a=tree
Jun 08 16:30:41 <npm> it's not "support" it's a matter of adherence to standards
Jun 08 16:31:07 <npm> if standards are adhered to http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2011-May/483207.html then a million bug reports don't need to get filed in the first place
Jun 08 16:32:20 <gabrbedd> npm: I think the message is clear... MeeGo is not going to be bogged down by supporting legacy standards.
Jun 08 16:33:07 <gabrbedd> npm: But patches to add such support will _probably_ be accepted.
Jun 08 16:33:17 <npm> well and my response is that  many people will prefer to bogg themselves down in the large market and well-established standards and frameworks of android then
Jun 08 16:33:33 <npm> the whole interesting thing about meego is that it's linux
Jun 08 16:35:38 <npm> and last i checked, qtractor, ardour, etc haven't been ported to wayland....
Jun 08 16:36:24 <andyross> Also, as regards icccm/wm-spec issues: people really are serious about wayland.  Clear violations that break obvious desirable functionality will obviously be looked at as bugs, but compliance minutiae just doesn't register.  This is all going away (with some luck -- personally I'm still a little suspicious, but I'd be happy to be surprised)
Jun 08 16:37:13 <andyross> But interestingly "Xorg" has been ported to wayland :), so there's a built-in migration path for legacy stuff.
Jun 08 16:38:19 <berndhs> I don't know if calling the majority of linux GUIs "legacy stuff" isn't taking things a bit lightly
Jun 08 16:38:33 <npm> well, i'll believe it when I see it working in front of me with an app that I want to run, not some test app or demo program
Jun 08 16:38:54 <andyross> It's nor a moral term.  In the context of moving from X11 to wayland, I think "legacy" has pretty clear meaning.
Jun 08 16:39:08 <berndhs> yes but these are serious issues
Jun 08 16:39:30 <berndhs> this is not some small lib that's being replaced
Jun 08 16:39:54 <gabrbedd> berndhs: majority of linux GUIs are GTK or Qt... not legacy.  Legacy refers to Motif, Athena, raw Xlib, etc.
Jun 08 16:40:05 <andyross> Kristian Hogsberg's wayland talk at the meego conference was done on wayland, running the meego-ux stack.  It's real.  It's not done, but it's doable.  Well, I was impressed anyway.
Jun 08 16:40:08 <npm> the issue with making "legacy" some unimportant thing is that those legacy apps that have been banged on for 10-20 years will not find an equivalent in even the medium term
Jun 08 16:40:14 <berndhs> majority of linux GUIs no rely on X
Jun 08 16:40:24 <berndhs> including Gtk and Qt
Jun 08 16:40:38 <npm> and all the newfangled apps end up feeling like demos when you actually need to get something done
Jun 08 16:40:52 <gabrbedd> berndhs: but Qt and GTK have or are getting Wayland back-ends.
Jun 08 16:41:07 <npm> whereas the legacy apps, even if the buttons are too small, get the job done, and do it the way i've been doing it for a long time
Jun 08 16:41:16 <berndhs> yes but those back-ends have to bu equal to the X backends in functionality
Jun 08 16:41:31 <berndhs> not just sort-of-like similar
Jun 08 16:42:06 <npm> i have no problem using any of the legacy apps in http://nielsmayer.com/meego/tab/meegotab-screenshots.html ... until i accidentlaly pop up a window that expects a window manager close.. and need to reboot to get out of it
Jun 08 16:42:26 <npm> (unless i have a ssh terminal nearby)
Jun 08 16:44:44 <andyross> npm: there I completely agree.  Having a mechanism somewhere (in meego-ux-daemon probably) that allowed for WM_CLOSE (and/or XDestroyWindow()) to be delivered would be really useful.  Clearly not everything is going to be a compliant app.  But those non-compliant apps just aren't the focus right now.  The tablet folks are rushing like mad trying to get the thing to be a shippable product with the core stack.
Jun 08 16:45:46 <w00t> you can close windows without a close button
Jun 08 16:46:03 <w00t> press home to go to the panels, home again to go to the app switcher, tap and hold on the app, press close
Jun 08 16:46:05 <npm> well i'm just hoping that when they're done shipping, they'll take care of wm_close, and honoring wm_hints regarding adding decorations,etc
Jun 08 16:46:16 <gabrbedd> andyross: npm: After trapsing throught the meego-ux-daemon code... getting a garden-variety window close would be a pretty deep change.
Jun 08 16:46:56 <andyross> w00t wins.  I've been in there too, but clearly missed that bit. :)
Jun 08 16:47:02 <gabrbedd> andyross: npm: But if you make sure that the application has a desktop file and registers with the task switcher, then what w00t says will work.
Jun 08 16:47:03 <CosmoHill> damn virtualbox feels slow
Jun 08 16:47:16 <w00t> gabrbedd: it doesn't even need either of those
Jun 08 16:47:33 <w00t> I've run various stuff from the CLI, it still appears there, just without an icon etc
Jun 08 16:47:56 <w00t> and andyross: yeah, it's not really discoverable
Jun 08 16:48:01 <w00t> I hate tap and hold based UI
Jun 08 16:48:08 <npm> w00t: if that only worked in the situations that require a reboot
Jun 08 16:48:37 <npm> in some dialogs from apps, they have no close or quit button, but come up full screen in meego-ux
Jun 08 16:48:48 <npm> and in that situation you can't click the prox-sensor button
Jun 08 16:48:58 <w00t> npm: works for xterm, and everything else I've tried it with
Jun 08 16:48:59 <npm> or you can but it just sits there
Jun 08 16:48:59 <gabrbedd> w00t: Hmmm.  I seem to recall running emacs from CLI doesn't show up -- but yours might be more up-to-date than mine.
Jun 08 16:49:05 <w00t> and none of that has any magical integration
Jun 08 16:49:34 <npm> and gabrbedd says is true.. if any app starts up another app, then it's window doesn't show up in app-switcher
Jun 08 16:50:07 <npm> so to get back to it... you have to close. go back to launching app (e.g. gpodder), and select another piece of media to play
Jun 08 16:50:27 <w00t> or fix the bug, which I might consider doing if it annoyed me enough
Jun 08 16:50:46 <w00t> I don't like relying on other people to solve my problems, it usually doesn't work
Jun 08 16:51:05 <andyross> npm: that's just asking too much though.  It's not a desktop UI, it just isn't.  There's no magic you can do in software to make a Macintosh Plus-style window work in a iPhone-style device screen.  Everything's going to be a hack, some apps will never work at all (c.f. gimp until very recently), and the question is what to support.
Jun 08 16:51:13 <w00t> oh, bah, I'm out of power ports again
Jun 08 16:51:35 <npm> andyross: if wm_hints were followed then it would be easy to add a wm_close button and decorate it
Jun 08 16:51:38 * w00t really needs another 4 strip extension lead
Jun 08 16:53:05 <npm> the tablet-ux is a pretty big screen actually. and there's rooms to put up popup dialogs
Jun 08 16:53:35 <npm> http://nielsmayer.com/meego/tab/meegotab-smplayer-with-meego-ux-undecorated-qt-dialog.png shows that some apps look pretty good -- qt ones
Jun 08 16:54:39 <npm> and some qt ones don't: http://nielsmayer.com/meego/tab/meegotab-qasmixer-showing-undecorated-qt-dialog.png
Jun 08 16:55:24 <npm> and gnome ones fail miserably by horking up the wm: http://nielsmayer.com/meego/tab/meegotab-gpodder-dialog-with-fullscreen-ghost-dialog-background.png
Jun 08 16:57:08 <thp> npm: on meego tablet, you shouldn't use the desktop gtk ui of gpodder =)
Jun 08 16:57:18 <thp> there's a qml ui for touch devices
Jun 08 16:57:59 <npm> i just did "zypper in gpodder" meego-lem took care of the rest...
Jun 08 16:58:37 <CosmoHill> MeeGo comes with xz installed but tar doesn't know that
Jun 08 16:58:42 <thp> npm: ok, then you don't have the qml ui yet ;) it's not packaged
Jun 08 16:58:45 <npm> i think we tried getting up the qml gpodder at the conf, i should go back and look at those some more
Jun 08 16:58:53 <npm> thp ... on sunda
Jun 08 16:58:55 <npm> y
Jun 08 17:00:40 <thp> yep
Jun 08 17:02:00 <npm> so are you planning on putting a tablet-ux version of gpodder? or how do you handle the tablet-ux decorations
Jun 08 17:02:37 * npm thinks maybe there needs to be a tablet-ux wrapper program that runs as a proxy, decorates other apps, handles their wm_protos etc
Jun 08 17:02:57 <npm> instead of trying to modify the tablet-ux wm
Jun 08 17:04:08 <npm> the tablet-ux wrapper would then add tablet-ux decorations and below, make a "hole" for the client app (just like a window manager) and manage that window
Jun 08 17:04:32 <andyross> mcompositor actually used to have a decorator feature.  It drew really ugly (though stylable) close buttons on apps that didn't speak "mcompositor" hints.  It got removed for being stale (and libmeegotouch-dependent) when mcompositor was forked into meego-ux-compositor.
Jun 08 17:05:38 <npm> i was thinking this would be yet another app, basically a tablet-ux app, whose function was to manage one particular application window (and perhaps hold customizations for each type of app)
Jun 08 17:05:59 <npm> basically a "launcher"
Jun 08 17:06:09 <thp> npm: gpodder qml can draw a close and task switcher button for cases where there is need for them
Jun 08 17:07:15 <npm> but you won't be able to change the volume, adjust wireless,etc like tablet-ux apps (which is another beef -- non tablet ux apps scream "we're second class!")
Jun 08 17:09:03 <berndhs> I see an opportunity, the meego-ux-desktop :)
Jun 08 17:09:44 <berndhs> or perhaps  more abstract version, meego-ux-big-screen
Jun 08 17:10:26 <thp> npm: true.
Jun 08 17:10:33 <andyross> berndhs: I think that's a great idea honestly.  Grow meego-ux up into a host for traditional desktop apps.  But it's likely going to be a ton of work.  And it's not being provided by the big stakeholders because they're desperately trying to get MeeGo crammed down into tablets and handsets.
Jun 08 17:10:45 <thp> won't the tablet ux draw that if i'm showMaximized()?
Jun 08 17:10:48 <berndhs> because a bunch of assumptions in the touch-this-ux and touch-that-ux are from small scereens, not from touch
Jun 08 17:11:45 <berndhs> but sure, the people who are making small screen devices are not particularly motivate to invest in that
Jun 08 17:11:56 <thp> npm: the other thing would be for the tablet ux components to provide a qml element that draws the 'top bar' stuff
Jun 08 17:12:06 <gabrbedd> npm: w00t: andyross: In case anyone wants to hack on support for misc. windows in tablet ux....
Jun 08 17:12:27 <gabrbedd> Right now the internal data structure uses the desktop file as a sort of primary key.
Jun 08 17:12:51 * w00t doesn't have time for that right now
Jun 08 17:12:56 <w00t> I'm part way through a Qt patch
Jun 08 17:13:19 <gabrbedd> To add support for misc. windows, it should probably converted to where the window id is the primary key.
Jun 08 17:13:37 <Venemo_N900> w00t, sounds good, what are you writing the patch for?
Jun 08 17:13:44 <npm> gabrbedd: interesting
Jun 08 17:13:53 <gabrbedd> It's a pretty invasive change... and that's why it won't happen soon.
Jun 08 17:14:25 <w00t> Venemo_N900: https://qt.gitorious.org/~w00t/qt/rb-qt/commit/5cf771de67de0f62d894faa7ce8039cf30a21479
Jun 08 17:14:28 <gabrbedd> w00t: Thus the "In case..."  I don't have time for it, either. :-)
Jun 08 17:19:01 <Venemo_N900> w00t, nice stuff
Jun 08 17:26:24 <lcuk> lardman, just the man.
Jun 08 17:26:56 <lcuk> given that bacon is the single most edible foodproduct
Jun 08 17:27:00 <lardman> indeed
Jun 08 17:27:12 <lcuk> would it be improved by cooking it in Kentucky Fried stuff?
Jun 08 17:27:20 <lardman> nah
Jun 08 17:27:22 <bdub> There's a place near me that'll do that for you.
Jun 08 17:27:26 <lardman> that would dilute the baconness
Jun 08 17:27:52 <lcuk> what if it was baon flavoured crispyness?
Jun 08 17:27:56 <lardman> bdub: you must live in Scotland then? They also do deep fried Mars bars so I hear ;)
Jun 08 17:28:02 <lcuk> afterall, we put baconaise on food
Jun 08 17:28:08 <lcuk> that already contains bacon
Jun 08 17:28:09 <bdub> Negative, rural texas.
Jun 08 17:28:11 <lcuk> hmmm
Jun 08 17:28:13 <lardman> lcukL I think one needs simply full-fat butter
Jun 08 17:28:21 <fiferboy> bdub: Isn't deep-fried beer big down there too?
Jun 08 17:28:33 <bdub> http://theeatenpath.com/2009/03/23/chicken-fried-bacon-sodolaks-country-inn-snook-tx/
Jun 08 17:28:37 <lardman> bdub: and do men wear skirts
Jun 08 17:28:41 * lcuk finds your ideas intruiging and wishes to subscribe to your newsletter
Jun 08 17:28:43 <bdub> deep fried beer won a prize at our state fair
Jun 08 17:28:43 <lardman> sorry I meant kilts
Jun 08 17:28:48 <bdub> the year before it was deep fried butter.
Jun 08 17:29:02 <fiferboy> Just goes to show you, you can deep fry anything
Jun 08 17:29:10 <bdub> If it'll fit in a fryer...
Jun 08 17:29:17 <lardman> deep fried butter would be impressive
Jun 08 17:29:20 <bdub> around thanksgiving, the locals have "turkey frying" parties
Jun 08 17:29:31 <lardman> like a baked alaska almost
Jun 08 17:29:48 <bdub> one person buys a whole bunch of oil, everyone brings their turkey and deep fries it for the following day.
Jun 08 17:30:13 <fiferboy> I have never tried it, but I hear deep fried turkey is delicious
Jun 08 17:30:47 <lardman> it certainly sounds tempting with a beer
Jun 08 17:31:37 <bdub> I believe it's kind of like dim sum, except filled with beer instead of broth, and fried.
Jun 08 17:31:39 <GeneralAntilles> fiferboy, yes.
Jun 08 17:31:52 <gabrbedd> bdub: I think fried coke (-a-cola) won the year before that.
Jun 08 17:32:00 <bdub> oooo that would be good.
Jun 08 17:32:05 <gabrbedd> bdub: are you in austin?
Jun 08 17:32:09 <bdub> hey, yeah, gabrbedd, you're up that way
Jun 08 17:32:13 <bdub> College Station
Jun 08 17:32:26 <gabrbedd> bdub: I'm in DFW.
Jun 08 17:33:11 * lardman wonders where all his emails have vanished to
Jun 08 17:33:18 <fiferboy> GeneralAntilles: Deep fried orange juice?
Jun 08 17:33:21 <bdub> Nice.  Well, it's bacontime in Texas.   I mean lunch.
Jun 08 17:33:39 <gabrbedd> :-)
Jun 08 17:34:01 <GeneralAntilles> fiferboy, not tried that one. Too bad my fryer's broken.
Jun 08 17:34:54 <lardman> bdub: enjoy :)
Jun 08 17:35:33 <fiferboy> GeneralAntilles: I'm not positive it has been tried.  Could win you a prize at a State Fair
Jun 08 17:35:33 <lcuk> yum more chicken
Jun 08 17:35:47 <GeneralAntilles> Unlikely.
Jun 08 17:36:03 <lardman> fiferboy: how did you add me as a contact on flickr? Does that mean I actually have an account?
Jun 08 17:36:15 <fiferboy> lardman: You do :)
Jun 08 17:36:28 <lardman> lol
Jun 08 17:36:50 <fiferboy> Even less used than my account was until recently
Jun 08 17:37:01 <lardman> I should probably check it, I imagine it has some nice Dutch ladies of the night, and sparking rail cleaning gadgets in it
Jun 08 17:37:19 <lardman> it will also have some cheesy Queen pics I imagine ;)
Jun 08 17:38:05 * GeneralAntilles catches a lardman on Flickr.
Jun 08 17:38:08 <fiferboy> lardman: I don't think you have any actual content, just pictures people have tagged you in
Jun 08 17:38:12 <lcuk> lardman, so *that* is how you paid for nights in hotel :P
Jun 08 17:38:24 <fiferboy> lardman: Though it probably *should* have all those things in it
Jun 08 17:38:25 <lcuk> that makeup and dress mustv been difficult to get in and out of :P
Jun 08 17:38:30 <lardman> fiferboy: I will start uploading content from Amsterdam then
Jun 08 17:38:46 <lardman> lcuk: oh crap, that's not on there is it?
Jun 08 17:39:07 <lcuk> no, that is safely inside the maemo irc log :P
Jun 08 17:39:18 <lcuk> i think you posted it to your uni server
Jun 08 17:40:31 <fiferboy> lardman: I don't think my Amsterdam media content survived an accidental eMMC format
Jun 08 17:40:49 <fiferboy> lardman: Although I seem to remember emailing them to you, so it must be preserved somewhere
Jun 08 17:41:03 <lardman> I will add them to the collective memory on flickr
Jun 08 17:43:07 <lardman> assuming I can remember the password that is of course, otherwise facebook it is
Jun 08 17:44:03 <fiferboy> lardman: It took me almost a day to log into my account (as I forgot my yahoo login, my backup email address, and my password)
Jun 08 17:48:02 <lardman> lol
Jun 08 17:48:21 * lardman goes to eat supper (no bacon) before Holly kills me
Jun 08 17:48:23 <lardman> bbiab
Jun 08 18:03:55 <lcuk> infobot,
Jun 08 18:32:43 <alterego> So when am I actually supposed to mark bugs assigned to me as fixed?
Jun 08 18:32:47 <alterego> When they're in images?
Jun 08 18:32:57 <Stskeeps> ask sabotage how he'd like to handle it
Jun 08 18:33:10 <alterego> He's gone AFK for a bit :)
Jun 08 18:33:27 <alterego> I'll ask him when he gets back,.
Jun 08 18:33:34 <alterego> How's Helsinki Stskeeps ?
Jun 08 18:33:48 <Stskeeps> warm
Jun 08 18:33:51 <alterego> :)
Jun 08 18:33:52 <GeneralAntilles> Usually it's when the code is committed.
Jun 08 18:34:04 <GeneralAntilles> Then it goes to QA for verification
Jun 08 18:34:15 <alterego> m'kay
Jun 08 18:34:18 <GeneralAntilles> and finally CLOSED when the final thing is released.
Jun 08 18:34:23 <GeneralAntilles> But it depends on the team.
Jun 08 18:34:37 <alterego> I'll still hold off until sabotage gets back, I've been doing it after my DE SRs are accepted.
Jun 08 18:34:45 <alterego> But I figure I should probably do it on commit.
Jun 08 18:34:48 <alterego> (to git)
Jun 08 18:34:55 <lcuk> alterego, I often see RESOLVED_FIXED when I am checking testing images and confirm them then
Jun 08 18:35:09 <andyross> alterego: not a policy statement, but my experience is that on bugs where there's "affirmative QA attention" it works well to make them RESOLVED/FIXED when there's a SR in OBS containing the fix.  Then someone merges it and it eventually gets closed by QA.
Jun 08 18:35:30 <alterego> andyross: yeah, that's what I have been doing.
Jun 08 18:36:12 <alterego> Anyway, active call duration fix is now in, along with a bit of a code cleanup
Jun 08 18:37:29 <lcuk> DawnFoster, \o not sure if you saw, but I went along to the IntelRemastered exhibition and was given guided tour by one ofthe organisers http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3519
Jun 08 18:37:38 <lcuk> I made a writeup about it too :)
Jun 08 18:37:55 <DawnFoster> lcuk: I saw that! Looks cool
Jun 08 18:38:03 * lcuk was almost going to leave calendar on display in the gallery as a new work of art
Jun 08 18:39:41 <alterego> Heh
Jun 08 18:40:24 <fiferboy> alterego, Stskeeps Do you know if meego-terminal has made it to the repos anywhere yet?
Jun 08 18:40:38 <Stskeeps> fiferboy: DE, i think
Jun 08 18:40:39 <alterego> It's on community obs, should be in tomorrows image.
Jun 08 18:40:47 <gabrbedd> fiferboy: it does.  search gitorious, I think.
Jun 08 18:40:48 <alterego> Did it make it into todays image?
Jun 08 18:40:55 <Stskeeps> fiferboy: they didn't want it into 1.3 for various reasons, so
Jun 08 18:41:07 <gabrbedd> fiferboy: that is, if it's VCS you're looking for.
Jun 08 18:41:37 <fiferboy> Sweet, I will look for it
Jun 08 18:42:00 <fiferboy> It would be nice on the tablet, since the N900 has the physical keyboard to fall back on
Jun 08 18:42:08 <Stskeeps> we build for i586 in DE too
Jun 08 18:42:10 <Stskeeps> so should work
Jun 08 18:42:17 <dneary_> DawnFoster, Did you see that I put the "Get Pentaho running" article in the wiki?
Jun 08 18:42:32 <dneary_> DawnFoster, I'm working on the follow up for data sources, and doing a report, now
Jun 08 18:42:39 <fiferboy> Stskeeps: Nice
Jun 08 18:42:59 <DawnFoster> dneary_: I haven't - I was on vacation Mon / Tues & am still digging out
Jun 08 18:43:07 <dneary_> No rush
Jun 08 18:43:14 <dneary_> DawnFoster, It's in Metrics/Pentaho
Jun 08 18:43:22 <dneary_> Or Metrics/Installing Pentaho
Jun 08 18:43:27 <dneary_> The latter, IIRC
Jun 08 18:43:39 <DawnFoster> dneary_: cool, I'll check it out
Jun 08 18:44:52 <fiferboy> Found the proper build in OBS
Jun 08 18:45:15 <blindfish> hi
Jun 08 18:45:23 <fiferboy> Is it ironic that I need a physical keyboard to use the terminal to install this terminal so I won't need a physical keyboard?
Jun 08 18:46:13 <w00t> fiferboy: you don't have ssh?
Jun 08 18:46:39 <fiferboy> w00t: I need a physical keyboard to find my tablets IP :)
Jun 08 18:46:45 <w00t> no you don't
Jun 08 18:46:49 <w00t> open the settings UI
Jun 08 18:46:49 <fiferboy> (unless I want to try to find it with nmap or something)
Jun 08 18:46:53 <w00t> click the network you're connected to
Jun 08 18:46:57 <w00t> voila, you see the IP
Jun 08 18:46:58 <blindfish> there is a terminal with touch-keyboard-support?
Jun 08 18:47:06 <fiferboy> w00t: Not in the latest builds :(
Jun 08 18:47:17 <w00t> fiferboy: you do in the build as of ~yesterday
Jun 08 18:47:23 <w00t> if that's changed today, I will be seriously surprised
Jun 08 18:47:51 <fiferboy> w00t: No, my build isn't todays.  But I haven't been able to find the IP display in any of the recent builds
Jun 08 18:47:57 <fiferboy> I will check again
Jun 08 18:48:14 <w00t> blindfish: https://gitorious.org/meego-terminal
Jun 08 18:49:13 <w00t> fiferboy: open settings, tap connections, tap network, you then have a disconnect/remove connection button, along with IP/subnet/gateway/DNS/etc and an apply/cancel button
Jun 08 18:49:24 <w00t> 'network' being the one you're interested in
Jun 08 18:49:34 <w00t> note that this only shows after you're actually connected
Jun 08 18:51:24 <lcuk> fiferboy, did you write the ip widget on maemo?
Jun 08 18:51:58 <blindfish> oh, nice. thanks w00t
Jun 08 18:52:05 <fiferboy> lcuk: I wrote an IP widget in maemo 5, yes
Jun 08 18:52:18 <lcuk> port it!
Jun 08 18:52:20 <lcuk> :D
Jun 08 18:52:38 <lcuk> oh, and whilst you are at it, port a desktop environment for the widgets and all necessary stuff around
Jun 08 18:52:41 <lcuk> k thx bai!
Jun 08 18:53:10 <fiferboy> lcuk: I was about to point that out ;P
Jun 08 18:53:16 <lcuk> ;)
Jun 08 18:53:31 * lcuk is feeling odd tonight
Jun 08 18:53:40 <lcuk> I still cannot take my laptop to where I can smoke
Jun 08 18:53:50 <lcuk> so I am fidgety
Jun 08 18:53:51 <RST38h> bacon?
Jun 08 18:54:07 <lcuk> RST38h, sadly no
Jun 08 18:54:12 <lcuk> the tobacco kind
Jun 08 18:55:37 <fiferboy> I can't picture how tobacco-smoked bacon would taste
Jun 08 18:56:06 <RST38h> lcuk: try quitting
Jun 08 18:56:07 <w00t> smoky backno
Jun 08 18:56:09 <w00t> bacon
Jun 08 18:56:19 <lcuk> take one volcano, insert one large pig, a tobacco plant and inhale.
Jun 08 18:56:35 <Venemo_N900> lcuk, meego uxes don't have the concept of desktop widgets, do they?
Jun 08 18:56:36 <lcuk> RST38h, I could
Jun 08 18:56:47 <lcuk> but that just leaves me more fidgety for today
Jun 08 18:56:55 <lcuk> Venemo_N900, IDK
Jun 08 18:57:00 <lcuk> do they?
Jun 08 18:57:21 <Venemo_N900> lcuk, handset ux definitely does not
Jun 08 18:57:54 <Venemo_N900> lcuk, of course, Cordia is coming to MeeGo, so porting a DE that has widgets is indeed underways
Jun 08 18:58:13 <lcuk> meego-n900-de though?
Jun 08 18:58:14 <javispedro> handset ux does not have widgets??
Jun 08 18:59:13 <Venemo_N900> javispedro, I didn't see any widgets on it, nor a GUI to add widgets
Jun 08 18:59:18 * javispedro thought to have seen those, but seems that no, they do no exist.
Jun 08 18:59:42 <Venemo_N900> that was a few weeks ago, so they might have added the feature since then
Jun 08 19:00:14 <Venemo_N900> javispedro, why did you think everyone is hating the handset ux in #maemo?
Jun 08 19:00:23 <javispedro> not due to lack of widgets =)
Jun 08 19:00:51 <Venemo_N900> partly
Jun 08 19:01:06 <lcuk> javispedro, I showed you this recently, that might be it http://liqbase.net/liq.20110607_220246.liqdesign2.scr.png
Jun 08 19:01:25 <Venemo_N900> mostly because of lack of any customization as opposed to Fremantle's GUI
Jun 08 19:01:30 <javispedro> lcuk: na, way earlier :)
Jun 08 19:01:44 <lcuk> do I have to look in archives :P
Jun 08 19:01:49 <javispedro> heh.
Jun 08 19:02:42 <lcuk> javispedro, I was trying to work out last night, I think the grandparent to that screen was shown on the very first libliqbase video (the zoom fish one)
Jun 08 19:03:29 <fiferboy> w00t: Thanks!  I never clicked on the network name after I was connected
Jun 08 19:03:38 <gandhijee> does that acer M500 tablet have acc gfx?
Jun 08 19:04:23 <javispedro> lcuk: the first libliqbase or the first liqbase video?
Jun 08 19:07:09 <lcuk> javispedro, first libliqbase one
Jun 08 19:07:27 <lcuk> the one that made many at nokia spill beverages on their keyboards
Jun 08 19:07:44 <Venemo_N900> lcuk, why did it?
Jun 08 19:08:08 <lcuk> Venemo_N900, a few months later the top secret fremantle OS was released
Jun 08 19:08:14 <lcuk> with zooming desktop
Jun 08 19:08:40 <lcuk> at the time I don't think I had stepped foot in Finland
Jun 08 19:11:37 <lcuk> this one Venemo_N900 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMXp0Dg_UaY
Jun 08 19:11:46 <lcuk> still looks and feels fast on the n810
Jun 08 19:12:10 <lcuk> and as far as I can tell, everything I write today is just as compatible and fast on there still :)
Jun 08 19:13:16 <Venemo_N900> aah, so you invented fremanle-style multitasking before they had a chance of releasing it
Jun 08 19:13:16 <Venemo_N900> lcuk, that is nice :)
Jun 08 19:14:36 <Venemo_N900> lcuk, can't watch on N900, but please repost the link when I get home
Jun 08 19:14:46 * lcuk still has not had more than a few weeks actual code time on that
Jun 08 19:15:08 <lcuk> but the calendar got released properly and is in use by many folks
Jun 08 19:15:20 <lcuk> it has given their n900 a long lasting simple app to keep it on
Jun 08 19:15:28 <lcuk> the kickstand makes that work nicely :)
Jun 08 21:27:05 <alterego> "The overall quality of the keynote session was good"
Jun 08 21:27:16 <alterego> I imagine the results of that question will cause a point singularity :P
Jun 08 21:30:43 <DawnFoster> alterego: definitely not one of the high points :)
Jun 08 21:30:58 <alterego> Anyway, filled it in :)
Jun 08 21:32:54 <gabrbedd> alterego: (5) Strognly agree (4) Agree (3) Neutral (2) Disagree (1) Strognly disagree (0) Hey, watch your language!
Jun 08 21:33:33 <alterego> :)
Jun 08 21:33:55 <alterego> To be honest, I just found the keynote boring
Jun 08 21:34:06 <alterego> The only part of it that was interesting was w00t's 5 minutes.
Jun 08 21:34:30 <berndhs> there is no choice (x) I have no recollection ?
Jun 08 21:34:34 <vgrade> DawnFoster hi, do you have many applications for the device programme
Jun 08 21:34:37 <alterego> I don't know if it was "crap" or whatever, all I can say is, I didn't think it was interesting.
Jun 08 21:34:53 <alterego> So I spent most of my time talking on IRC :)
Jun 08 21:35:07 <gabrbedd> alterego: I agree.  I thought it was pretty interesting when I first saw a video of Zemlin giving the same thing at another conference...
Jun 08 21:35:18 <gabrbedd> alterego: ...and about a year or two ago.
Jun 08 21:35:29 <alterego> He was the wrong guy to talk
Jun 08 21:35:31 <alterego> imo
Jun 08 21:36:10 <alterego> We need someone who's actually got a genuine interest in the MeeGo project, someone who is actually passionate about it.
Jun 08 21:36:16 <alterego> Not a token Linux Foundation guy ..
Jun 08 21:36:48 <alterego> I'm just presuming here, that he isn't that interested in MeeGo, because he didn't seem that genuine to me on stage ;)
Jun 08 21:36:48 <gabrbedd> alterego: On the one hand, I think he was just "off" that day --- on the other hand, I honestly don't think Jim's heart is into MeeGo.
Jun 08 21:36:58 <alterego> Yeah
Jun 08 21:37:16 <gabrbedd> alterego: I've picked up on that in other interviews, too.
Jun 08 21:37:41 <alterego> But I'm sure he goes to lots of these things, for lots of different projects.
Jun 08 21:37:57 <alterego> So he probably has the same indifference for all of them ;)
Jun 08 21:40:41 <gabrbedd> alterego: No, he doesn't have the same indifference.  But, he's human.
Jun 08 21:40:49 <berndhs> alterego: gabrbedd: after travelling all the way to SF, how many are really awake and paying attention that early on the first day ?
Jun 08 21:41:08 <gabrbedd> alterego: all of us, at one time or another, have to tote a party line that they disagree with at some time.
Jun 08 21:41:25 <gabrbedd> s/at some time//
Jun 08 21:41:25 <infobot> gabrbedd meant: alterego: all of us, at one time or another, have to tote a party line that they disagree with .
Jun 08 21:42:24 <DawnFoster> vgrade: just a handful of apps so far, but we haven't done the blog post or any promotion outside of mentioning it in the conference session
Jun 08 21:42:24 <gabrbedd> berndhs: Lots.  Every 15-25 seconds you'd hear someone's phone go "moo" as it was vibrating with some tweet that they got.
Jun 08 21:43:28 <berndhs> that just says their phone is on, not taht they pay attention to the talk
Jun 08 21:43:44 <DawnFoster> also, Jim is still recovering from his ski accident and he was in a lot of pain
Jun 08 21:44:02 <DawnFoster> he had his foot propped up backstage until we had him onstage
Jun 08 21:44:47 <DawnFoster> but I personally agree that the content was too generic in his piece (too much LF not enough MeeGo) - my opinion
Jun 08 21:46:47 <alterego> No announcements.
Jun 08 21:46:49 <gabrbedd> berndhs: everyone i know was paying close attention, and hoping for handset device announcements.
Jun 08 21:47:00 <alterego> All old news,
Jun 08 21:47:15 <gabrbedd> berndhs: So, yeah, they were paying attention. :-)
Jun 08 21:47:37 <berndhs> i see, he just didnt say what they wanted to hear :)
Jun 08 21:58:17 <newbie007> anyone know the latest on the NookColor ?  (I've been following http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3037&page=4)
Jun 08 22:00:03 <lbt_hel> mmm DawnFoster ... email<>forums ... :D
Jun 08 22:04:15 <vgrade> DawnFoster, keeping it a secret suits me :)
Jun 08 22:05:13 <lbt_hel> oh, and DawnFoster, I was asked to write up the IT meeting tonght but Niels and Adam were away and I got caught up in a never ending meeting so there was no IT meeting
Jun 08 22:06:17 <lbt_hel> but I would like to propose some kind of #meego-infra irc room where we can plan and work on bugzilla, web apps, OBS, and any other infra 'development'
Jun 08 22:06:30 <lbt_hel> anyhow... bed now...
Jun 08 22:21:00 <berndhs> how does one restart connman when it has crashed ?
Jun 08 22:24:03 <andyross> connman is spawned from /etc/rc.sysinit (no, I don't know why either) you can find the command there.  though by this time next week it'll probably be systemdefied and I'll be asking the same question.
Jun 08 22:24:26 <berndhs> ah
Jun 08 22:24:46 <berndhs> i thought it might have been systemd-d already
Jun 08 22:55:08 <mikhas> so, will Jaffa join the TSG now or what?
Jun 08 22:55:19 <mikhas> that was the only interesting question during that keynote =p
Jun 08 22:55:40 <mikhas> it might just work to have a community guy there
Jun 08 22:56:41 <gabrbedd> mikhas: ...except that Jaffa is a werewolf.
Jun 08 22:57:01 <andre__> somebody has to propose him, I'd say.
Jun 08 22:59:22 <mikhas> ok, I propose Jaffa for TSG
Jun 08 22:59:23 <mikhas> done
Jun 08 23:00:20 <mikhas> gabrbedd, not all werewolves are bad. in fact, the stupid villagers deserved no better than what they got
Jun 08 23:07:30 <mikhas> so what do I when architects dont answer my very concrete questions?
Jun 08 23:07:54 <berndhs> mikhas: file a bug ?
Jun 08 23:08:00 <mikhas> lol
Jun 08 23:08:49 <mikhas> MeeGo is still too much of a behind-closed-doors project
Jun 08 23:09:03 <mikhas> it's sickening
Jun 08 23:10:18 <mikhas> I was thinking that everyone with a certain responsibility in MeeGo should have to write up a (bi-) weekly report and send it to a public ML
Jun 08 23:10:30 <mikhas> this would go a long way wrt transparency and accountability
Jun 08 23:10:49 <ali1234> i don't know about others, but i for one cba reading all that
Jun 08 23:10:56 <mikhas> if someone doesn't send in reports it also signals inactivity/problems in that area
Jun 08 23:10:58 <berndhs> so why would I get "/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lQtOpenGL" in build.pub.meego.com, but not when doing rpmbuild locally ?
Jun 08 23:11:03 <berndhs> i dont understand it
Jun 08 23:11:15 <auke> libtool
Jun 08 23:20:21 * gabrbedd accuses mikhas of being a werewolf
Jun 08 23:22:53 <mikhas> my defense? I didn't play werewolf =p
Jun 08 23:23:27 <gabrbedd> :-)
Jun 09 00:16:05 <npm> berndhs: sudo killall -KILL connmand ; sudo connmand
Jun 09 00:37:27 <mikhas> sigh, kernel oops with BTRFS - who decided it was stable enough for MeeGo?
Jun 09 02:39:29 <GAN900> Ice breaking games shouldn't be played all night every night!
Jun 09 02:40:14 <sofar> mikhas: what exactly were you doing? did you manage to capture anything?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jun 09 02:59:56 2011