**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 21 02:59:56 2011 Jun 21 03:08:06 hi guys Jun 21 03:17:58 so, er, anyone know what CPU the N9's using? Everything I see from Nokia doesn't say Jun 21 03:18:43 I'm asking 'coz in my experience, mobile user experience in multitaksing relies on multi-core/processor far more than dektop. people more tolerant to waiting on a desktop for UX to return Jun 21 03:39:58 morning Jun 21 03:40:19 Morning. Jun 21 03:49:46 I disagree. Evening. Quite clearly. Jun 21 03:49:53 * sofar looks at his espresso. Jun 21 04:19:17 if you want to give a shot at the N950: https://meego.com/community/device-program Jun 21 04:40:53 julienf, hmmmmmm Jun 21 04:41:17 'MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan' compliance my a** Jun 21 04:41:22 iekku: yes? Jun 21 04:42:22 julienf, just wondering what excuse to use to get the device :) Jun 21 04:43:21 dm8tbr: I wrote a post about that last night and was flamed by someone saying that it doesn't matter Jun 21 04:43:25 julienf, and i think there's more people who really need the device than i do, since i'm not developer Jun 21 04:43:48 dm8tbr, so why would it matter anyway? Jun 21 04:43:57 your QML app will run on N9 and MeeGo Jun 21 04:44:49 iekku, you need one for testing, no? Jun 21 04:44:55 you could develop a bugwatch app Jun 21 04:45:02 * mikhas_ hides Jun 21 04:45:15 mikhas_: because it's an very very loud 'FUCK YOU, IN YOUR FUCKING FACE FUCKERS' to all community developers who ever tried to bring meego to hardware and were hit by the 'you won't ever be compliant, go hug a tree' bus. Jun 21 04:45:25 mikhas_, i just can't develop anything, that's the problem Jun 21 04:45:44 mikhas_: that's true for simple applications, not necessarily for more complex ones Jun 21 04:45:45 dm8tbr, you can blame *that* on the other elephant in the room, my friend Jun 21 04:45:50 mikhas_, i try to collect devices to get better understanding of the bugs, but.. Jun 21 04:46:23 julienf, oh I know Jun 21 04:46:44 it wasn't my decision to deprecate LMT on MeeGo, for example Jun 21 04:46:59 mikhas_: well it's got a 'MeeGo' on it so I will stick it to everyone who dares to utter the c-word from now on. Jun 21 04:48:30 dm8tbr: hey, at least it has a handset device on the market now rather than a bunch of half-functional tablets Jun 21 04:48:37 well, will have soon Jun 21 04:48:53 well, will it ever run _real_ meego? Jun 21 04:49:16 possibly, if Nokia supplies the MeeGo community in the same way they did for the N900 Jun 21 04:49:20 my understanding is 'comes with Maemo plus Qt' Jun 21 04:49:24 dm8tbr, will MeeGo ever run Harmattan? =p Jun 21 04:50:05 :D Jun 21 04:50:10 oh yes, let's convert MeeGo to deb packaging! Jun 21 04:50:30 sure Jun 21 04:50:38 it's not as if either format is any better Jun 21 04:50:52 RPM (the tool) just sucks the effing life out of me Jun 21 04:51:33 and debian rules files come straight from hell Jun 21 04:52:48 I don't even care about which $packaging_format they use at the moment Jun 21 04:53:10 the emphasis was on _convert_ and the implied _once_ _again_ :p Jun 21 04:54:44 meego this and meego harmattan that. confusing Jun 21 04:55:20 yes Jun 21 04:56:03 morning Jun 21 04:56:17 morning timoph Jun 21 05:02:08 hello. how much does n950 cost? what is cpu and ram? Jun 21 05:02:52 n950 has no price yet, it has the same internal hardware as the N9 Jun 21 05:02:57 is anyone here on the launchpad program? http://www.developer.nokia.com/Developer_Programs/Launchpad.xhtml Jun 21 05:03:11 faster than n900? Jun 21 05:03:12 (or so I believe, nothing to counter that considering the N9 came in short of what I expected...) Jun 21 05:03:16 yes Jun 21 05:03:24 I applied, nothing yet Jun 21 05:03:24 what is the cpu / soc? Jun 21 05:03:35 OMAP3630 @ 1GHz Jun 21 05:03:44 sounds good Jun 21 05:03:47 hmm there is a 3640 Jun 21 05:04:17 i am testing on a 1ghz 3640 Jun 21 05:05:05 very good powermanagement Jun 21 05:06:12 it's a BeagleXM in a nice case with a capacitive touchscreen ;) Jun 21 05:07:46 basically yeah :) Jun 21 05:07:52 much more portable though Jun 21 05:08:55 nice thing: Archos generation 8 tablets/PMPs have a near identical SoC too, so there might be some potential for synergy Jun 21 05:09:41 after all we've been experimenting with real meego on them for a while now Jun 21 05:11:33 what is missing for hardware support? Jun 21 05:12:17 dm8tbr: what frequency does SGX run on there? Jun 21 05:12:37 wifi, tslib.. Jun 21 05:12:45 noone uses tslib anymore Jun 21 05:13:10 dm8tbr: any chance to get that running on my Archos 70? Jun 21 05:16:17 well I sure hope that now there will be working hardfloat SGX drivers for 36xx omap3 Jun 21 05:17:57 * Stskeepz points to _r125 Jun 21 05:18:11 what is the name for the non-meego meego for archos Jun 21 05:18:14 julienf: that's what I hope for, that now that there is nokia hardware with same silicon it will be properly supported Jun 21 05:18:40 yes _r125 is the IP core in those IIRC Jun 21 05:24:06 some 'specs' http://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/pages/Hardware.html Jun 21 05:26:25 interesting, so either they went with something like TI wl1273 (or even newer) or chose a totally different wifi chipset Jun 21 05:26:43 wtf, is the N9 the MeeGo phone? Jun 21 05:26:53 yes\ Jun 21 05:26:57 ok Jun 21 05:27:11 there is also the n950 which seems to be the foldable thingy Jun 21 05:27:19 two meego phones? Jun 21 05:27:29 http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/MeeGo/#article2 Jun 21 05:28:13 no, just one (for the proles) Jun 21 05:28:22 The N950 will have limited distribution Jun 21 05:28:35 correct Jun 21 05:33:24 I want an N950 :( Jun 21 05:33:31 * TSCHAKeee officially hates nokia now Jun 21 05:33:47 then submit a proposal to the meego device program Jun 21 05:33:49 considering that we had orbiters on all of the Nokia tablets Jun 21 05:33:59 i think my request is justified Jun 21 05:34:06 sounds like an idea Jun 21 05:34:07 Stskeeps: where specifically? Jun 21 05:34:14 sec Jun 21 05:34:17 orbiters? Jun 21 05:34:20 flors.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/nokia-n9-state-of-the-art-of-mobile-linux-and-qt/ Jun 21 05:34:28 second section Jun 21 05:34:46 SpeedEvil: Orbiters are our intelligent remotes for LinuxMCE, they are control points for virtually every piece of tech inside the home Jun 21 05:35:13 SpeedEvil: targeted for tablets, cell phones, IP phones, on screen TV displays, etc. Jun 21 05:35:34 ah Jun 21 05:35:38 I guess we need a clip-on bluetooth/NFC keyboard accessory for the N9, if the N950 is going to be so hard to get Jun 21 05:41:01 SpeedEvil: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2176025602905109829 <-- watch this. ;) Jun 21 05:41:11 Stskeeps: okay I applied. Thanks man :) Jun 21 05:41:14 * TSCHAKeee hugs Stskeeps Jun 21 05:42:08 TSCHAKeee: Can't easily - don't want to blow quota - on 3g Jun 21 05:42:13 and perilously close. Jun 21 05:42:32 SpeedEvil: aww, bookmark it.. also http://www.linuxmce.org/ Jun 21 05:42:41 k Jun 21 05:42:50 SpeedEvil: we've been working close to a decade to create the most advanced smart home platform on the planet. Jun 21 05:42:55 Sounds like the sort of stuff I'm interested in and can't afford. Jun 21 05:43:07 SpeedEvil: it uses commodity hardware, so don't be so sure. Jun 21 05:43:10 we support a LOT of stuff Jun 21 05:43:18 from cheap stuff, to the really expensive ultra high end stuff Jun 21 05:43:23 and lots of stuff in between Jun 21 05:43:29 At the moment, I'm DIYing house insulation, as I can't affod to get it done properly. Jun 21 05:43:42 Nice control of stuff is some way down the list alas. Jun 21 05:44:16 SpeedEvil: i understand.. watch the video..and a lot of the stuff labeled "LinuxMCE" on youtube.. Jun 21 05:44:25 I'm the lead dev. Jun 21 05:44:42 Sunds interesting - bookmarked Jun 21 05:45:07 I've been getting ready to implement something based on 1-wire Jun 21 05:45:14 we support 1-wire Jun 21 05:45:20 mostly for sensor reading Jun 21 05:45:39 the entire system is built atop a highly modular messaging framework Jun 21 05:46:04 SpeedEvil: and we unify lighting, media, climate, security, and telecom under one roof. Jun 21 05:46:10 it all talks to each other. Jun 21 05:46:32 and if you can provide a method to do presence detection (the orbiters do it manually out of the box, if you just change the room) Jun 21 05:46:46 such as a cell phone, or an RFID tag, or a remote contorl with a definite address Jun 21 05:46:55 you can make things like lighting, media, telecom, etc follow you across the house. Jun 21 05:47:15 TSCHAKeee: funky. I'll read up on it when I've got working net and am not asleep. Jun 21 05:47:20 (7AM - not gone to bed) Jun 21 05:47:21 it also has a comprehensive storage layer, where hard drive storage, and optical drives are shared housewide. Jun 21 05:47:24 yikes go to bed Jun 21 05:47:27 ;) Jun 21 06:09:01 I was supprised when I read MeeGo useses PulseAudio ... doesn't this load the cpu ? Jun 21 06:10:14 Qantourisc: do you have any technical argument that it does, or just heresay anecdotes? Jun 21 06:16:12 Qantourisc, PulseAudio eat cpu on Ubuntu 10.04 because they poorly integrate it. So now every ubuntu fan think pulseaudio sucks Jun 21 06:17:45 yeah, they really butchered their deployment of pulse Jun 21 06:18:39 by they you mean lennart Jun 21 06:18:57 yeah man, he totally works for canonical alright Jun 21 06:19:06 right? right? Jun 21 06:19:11 eh? Jun 21 06:19:16 he is a red hat guy Jun 21 06:19:33 yes, and if you hate his code, better stop using meego since we're doing systemd in 1.3 Jun 21 06:20:50 the only thing about systemd is the that he might leave it, like the way he did for PA Jun 21 06:20:55 * tomeu hopes he stopped using so many single-letter variable identifiers Jun 21 06:21:16 I tried to apply for N9-devkit at http://www.developer.nokia.com/Devices/MeeGo/ - alas it always takes me to the registration for for launchpad, which eventually ends in a deadend loop saying >>Developer account registration >>Developer account registration >> group membership operation already in progress Jun 21 06:21:35 can anybody share a hint how to proceed please? Jun 21 06:21:45 DocScrutinizer: they are going to verify the membership first (nokia) Jun 21 06:21:49 atleast thats what I read Jun 21 06:22:10 DocScrutinizer: http://flors.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/nokia-n9-state-of-the-art-of-mobile-linux-and-qt/ , section two Jun 21 06:22:49 sofar: No I have no proof, or technical argument, it's clear from that comment it's NOT cpu hungry :) Jun 21 06:23:00 Witch is verry nice to hear Jun 21 06:23:48 hiemanshu: lennert is actively maintaining and fixing pulseaudio Jun 21 06:24:07 Stskeeps: how does this help? Jun 21 06:24:17 I have a tablet with Atom z530 and gma500, but the "meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail.img" have no gma500 driver. Where can I found this driver. Jun 21 06:24:46 DocScrutinizer: seperate programme Jun 21 06:24:49 leo_: its in recent upstream kernels IIRC Jun 21 06:25:13 Can I properly test meego using a netbook image to see how it would go on a phone ? Jun 21 06:25:19 leo_: start reading here: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Netbook_FAQ Jun 21 06:25:26 (To decide if it has evolged enough to start using it.) Jun 21 06:25:44 Stskeeps: sorry, I don't get it. the link there >>The Nokia N950 is a platform available now for developers targeting the Nokia N9 and MeeGo handset apps in general. Technical details are available at http://developer.nokia.com/swipe Jun 21 06:25:49 Qantourisc: yes, there are pinetrail images with handset ux Jun 21 06:26:00 gets me straight to where I entered that deadend loop Jun 21 06:26:03 DocScrutinizer: right, but if you're not a company, there's a meego device programme for the n950 stuff Jun 21 06:26:09 sofar: I can run handset images on my pc ? (duno) Jun 21 06:26:22 DocScrutinizer: http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=cdee124b11d6baacda6c3e29b12e23dc&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fflors.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F06%2F20%2Fnokia-n9-state-of-the-art-of-mobile-linux-and-qt%2F&v=1&libid=1308637450618&out=https%3A%2F%2Fmeego.com%2Fcommunity%2Fdevice-program&title=Nokia%20N9%3A%20state%20of%20the%20art%20of%20mobile%20Linux%20and%20Qt%20%C2%AB%20flors&txt=MeeGo%20Community%20Device%20Program Jun 21 06:26:28 .. Jun 21 06:26:30 fucking web Jun 21 06:26:38 https://meego.com/community/device-program Jun 21 06:26:41 LOL Jun 21 06:27:05 HOORAY 3rd page with >>https://meego.com/community/device-program<< Jun 21 06:27:08 Stskeeps: ah so LaunchPad is something totally different Jun 21 06:27:32 ok, time for me to work Jun 21 06:27:43 * Stskeeps gets back to figuring out why @%@% qt scenegraph shaders doesn't work on n900 Jun 21 06:28:04 Qantourisc: look at http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.1/handset/images/ for isntance Jun 21 06:28:05 honestly, seems impossible to follow kontori's advice and apply for a N950 Jun 21 06:28:06 O dear big traffic jam have to leave now (you can still toss me the answer and i'll read it tomorooow :) Jun 21 06:28:29 Qantourisc: there are ia32-pinetrail images for the handset UX, and those do run on most netbooks Jun 21 06:28:29 sofar: i'll try to run a few :) thx Jun 21 06:28:35 DocScrutinizer: what is the first thing you'd want to do with an N950? :) Jun 21 06:28:47 sofar: will be running it on xen to test :p Jun 21 06:28:48 Qantourisc: there's no 1.2 ia32-pinetrail image out yet, just a 1.1 one Jun 21 06:28:58 xen? ew Jun 21 06:29:06 VMs don't do MeeGo justice... Jun 21 06:29:11 sofar: why ew ? Jun 21 06:29:38 [2011-06-21 07:06:35] DocScrutinizer: fill it in. I'll discuss with developer program guys that we need a few community hackers as well Jun 21 06:29:52 a few Jun 21 06:30:04 so anything done for n950 will see 'a few' users Jun 21 06:30:14 sofar: i'm intrested in testing: cramming custom software on it, testing if the software supports my needs Jun 21 06:30:16 DocScrutinizer: Was that for Launchpad or meego.com programme? Jun 21 06:30:17 still might be nice to have Jun 21 06:30:34 * sofar gives up for today Jun 21 06:30:39 nite sofar Jun 21 06:30:40 povlinski: things done on the N950 should translate to the N9, there shouldn't be an OS or hardware difference aside from the keyboard.... shouldn't.... Jun 21 06:30:42 crap, and here i was hoping the n950 would be something better, but it's this dev phone for n9? :/ Jun 21 06:30:43 Jaffa: this was for trying to get a N950 Jun 21 06:31:34 DocScrutinizer: Yeah, but there are two ways :) Jun 21 06:31:49 I found none of both Jun 21 06:32:04 so MEH Jun 21 06:32:19 hena: N950 is "better" if you want keyboard or no NFC and not quite as striking industrial design Jun 21 06:32:32 oce again wasting hours to find a way thru meego textadventure jungle, for no result Jun 21 06:32:38 DocScrutinizer: Does Texrat's webapp not work on meego.com? Jun 21 06:32:51 eh? Jun 21 06:33:27 Jaffa: isn't the screen tech different too? I read that it is not AMOLED Jun 21 06:33:50 pabs3: Ah, maybe Jun 21 06:34:00 Jaffa: sorry I don't get it what you're asking me Jun 21 06:34:50 DocScrutinizer: Go to _Community_ section on yesterday's MWKN and follow the story for MeeGo Community Device Programme. Jun 21 06:35:14 aaah, there's pink apply button there Jun 21 06:35:18 DocScrutinizer: Or, the one you've done, try developer.nokia.com's Launchpad programme Jun 21 06:35:48 Jaffa: I'm trapped in endless loop in developer.nokia.com Jun 21 06:35:55 there will be a 'few'? or a few thousands? Jun 21 06:37:02 pabs3: Can you tell me the kernel version that have the gma500 driver? Jun 21 06:37:40 Jaffa: seems we're back to "why would you need a meego account anyway, fool?!" I got bashed with when I tried registering some 12 months ago Jun 21 06:38:03 which probably will end today as it ended 12 months ago Jun 21 06:40:15 I found "pvr-bin" here "http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/stable/1.2.0.90/1.2.0.90.0.20110517.1/repos/non-oss/ia32/packages/i586/". Is this gma500 driver? Jun 21 06:40:27 no, look for emgd Jun 21 06:40:31 Jaffa: why is it better? Jun 21 06:41:10 you mean emgd-bin this package is gma500 driver? Jun 21 06:41:25 leo_: looks like it was added after .39 and before 3.0 rc1 Jun 21 06:41:36 leo_: in the staging area Jun 21 06:41:54 we got the n9 demo, which i guess is n950 Jun 21 06:42:16 n950 has keyboard Jun 21 06:42:39 DocScrutinizer: You're having trouble getting a meego.com account? Jun 21 06:43:58 actually I tried again to get an account, it accepted it after I changed joerg_rw to joerg900 as no "_", and forwarded me to the login tab. No avail to login with same credentials Jun 21 06:44:18 Sorry, unrecognized username or password. Have you forgotten your password? Jun 21 06:45:35 I'm rather sure in 2 hours we'll and at same point of somebody suggesting "why do you use fucking webbrowsers like konqueror, use firefox like we al do! and why do you want a meego account at all, fool?!" Jun 21 06:45:49 s/ and / end / Jun 21 06:45:49 DocScrutinizer meant: I'm rather sure in 2 hours we'll end at same point of somebody suggesting "why do you use fucking webbrowsers like konqueror, use firefox like we al do! and why do you want a meego account at all, fool?!" Jun 21 06:45:57 in two hours? how about now? Jun 21 06:45:58 :P Jun 21 06:46:43 how about telling you now that even that disn't cure the issue back when I tried it first Jun 21 06:47:06 i can't recall when i registered my meego.com account, but wouldn't it usually ask for some kind of email activation? Jun 21 06:47:24 how about telling you now that I'm not willing to change my desktop to win7, if any fool at meego thinks that's the way to go Jun 21 06:51:52 Nice you can roll your own image ! Jun 21 06:51:56 verrry sweet Jun 21 06:55:31 Stskeeps: JFYI: FF doesn't work as well for login, registering says "account name taken", no confirmation mail of any kind at web.de, no notice about "wait for such mail" when registering Jun 21 06:55:42 mmka Jun 21 06:55:43 y Jun 21 06:56:00 Any image with x86 hardware support ? Jun 21 06:56:05 (So I can test ?) Jun 21 06:56:42 is access to n950 reserved for a few community developers who work on projects nokia approves, or any developer who wants to port or write some apps? Jun 21 06:57:27 povlinski: The programme at meego.com has 250 devices to distribute to the community Jun 21 06:57:44 povlinski: it's first instance limited to those able to apply for it - seems a mission impossible Jun 21 06:57:46 povlinski: Texrat can better explain the process Jun 21 06:57:56 even with "support" from kontori Jun 21 06:58:13 thank you jaffa! i think i do not qualify :) Jun 21 06:58:35 DocScrutinizer: I will take up the challenge Jun 21 06:58:41 DocScrutinizer: race to apply lol Jun 21 06:58:47 DocScrutinizer: mece has succeeded apparently Jun 21 06:58:48 pfff Jun 21 07:01:51 given the fact others *asked* me to take care, and I'm not actually that much interested in getting merits or free device for some months, or anything around meego, it's quite amazing how hostile the process treats me when trying to actually apply for an account, a device, whatever Jun 21 07:02:28 spnt way too long with all this hoax of a web presence and application form Jun 21 07:02:54 NB using both my standard browser and FF, no diff Jun 21 07:04:26 so uh, did Nokia get open drivers for the PowerVR chip, or? Jun 21 07:05:14 DocScrutinizer: just made a new meego.com account, looking at https://meego.com/community/device-program clicking apply has me at an application page Jun 21 07:05:34 I clicked apply, and logged in via openid Jun 21 07:05:47 got me to the application page Jun 21 07:05:58 flailingmonkey: as you can easily read some lines up, it's not even possible to get a meego account Jun 21 07:06:07 pabs3: it's not open Jun 21 07:06:23 DocScrutinizer: login via openid Jun 21 07:06:30 DocScrutinizer: that's confusing, because I just did so... Jun 21 07:07:25 wtf is openid? what am I supposed to enter in that friggin textfield? Jun 21 07:07:52 DocScrutinizer: A URL. Something like htp://maemo.org/openid/jaffa/ Jun 21 07:07:56 honnestly, c'mon - THAT is the way you join meego? Jun 21 07:08:13 DocScrutinizer: No, it's one way. Jun 21 07:08:28 I have no such URL at hand Jun 21 07:08:29 thiago_home: fun. any idea if the blobs are redistributable? Jun 21 07:08:38 pabs3: I don't know the licensing terms Jun 21 07:08:41 DocScrutinizer: http://openid.net/ Jun 21 07:08:47 DocScrutinizer: For some reason (ad-blocker?) you can't do something that the rest of us have on a variety of browsers Jun 21 07:08:51 you're just asking him to make yet another account Jun 21 07:09:25 sorry, I'm not going to go thru a 3 day training crashcourse just to *login* to a friggin website Jun 21 07:09:53 pabs3: OMAP3 SGX libs are redistributable nowadays Jun 21 07:10:17 Jaffa: I have no adblockers, for sure not on 2 different browsers, Firefox being one of them Jun 21 07:11:03 Stskeeps: ok, cool. so they can go into rpmfusion or Debian non-free in the case of a hypothetical Debian/Fedora distro Jun 21 07:11:19 pabs3: right Jun 21 07:11:26 DocScrutinizer: i'll make you an account myself if i have to lol Jun 21 07:11:59 damn, if I sign up with "joerg900" "foobar" "foobar" then I'd expect same user-pw tuple to work for login in same webpage, next tab Jun 21 07:12:05 Website could really do with a few pointer to "how to compile your own img" Jun 21 07:12:13 apparently joergrw exists... Jun 21 07:12:29 yeah, since 12 months I guess Jun 21 07:12:45 joerg900 seems broken (looking at user page fails to load properly) Jun 21 07:13:04 joerg also exists Jun 21 07:13:13 i can see you've been busy trying to make an account :p Jun 21 07:13:30 joergrw, 48 weeks 6 days Jun 21 07:14:55 DocScrutinizer: supposedly, reset password instructions have now been sent to whatever e-mail was used to setup the account joergrw Jun 21 07:14:59 *shrugs* Jun 21 07:15:08 * flailingmonkey shrugs Jun 21 07:17:33 Reset password You have successfully validated your e-mail address. This is a one-time login for joergrw and will expire on 22 June, 2011 - 00:12. Click on this button to login to the site and change your password. This login can be used only once. Jun 21 07:17:54 clicking on "log in"... -> Jun 21 07:18:39 I get some "sorry Access denied, you may have to confirm... " Jun 21 07:19:01 DocScrutinizer, n9 Devkit is n950 ;) ps no nfc :) Jun 21 07:19:10 thanks a lot for clicking on "forgot my password" for joergrw, flailingmonkey Jun 21 07:19:40 when I got my one-time-password e-mail, it had a link which logged me in :/ Jun 21 07:19:52 in addition to the written version of the password Jun 21 07:20:06 then I was able to change password Jun 21 07:20:12 yeah, it said "You have successfully validated your e-mail address." Jun 21 07:20:37 alas it still sais "Access denied" when I click on "log in" of same page Jun 21 07:20:38 your user accounts much be cursed in the db Jun 21 07:21:15 I come to think that's intentional Jun 21 07:21:22 What the real problem is Jun 21 07:21:32 Is DocScrutinizer needs to use another browser Jun 21 07:21:34 :p Jun 21 07:21:44 i find that hard to believe Jun 21 07:21:59 too easy to use such excuse to shift blame :p Jun 21 07:22:34 to be honest i didn't understand why i need to enter my name to every section of this website Jun 21 07:22:36 ... Jun 21 07:23:01 Anyway, someone know if QWidget will be themed on Harmatatanan ? Jun 21 07:29:52 flailingmonkey: ok, finally managed to log in via FF Jun 21 07:30:21 after esetting my password jet another time Jun 21 07:30:56 while konqueror still gives me " Access Denied / User Login Access denied. You may need to login below or register to access this page." Jun 21 07:31:06 clean out cookies? Jun 21 07:31:11 for the site Jun 21 07:31:21 might be an idea Jun 21 07:31:26 thanks Jun 21 07:31:41 DocScrutinizer: you managed to log in? fantastic :) Jun 21 07:32:03 yeah :-S Jun 21 07:32:22 now basically all I wanna do is apply for that friggin N9-dev Jun 21 07:32:41 Still no place to apply though Jun 21 07:32:48 https://meego.com/node/add/device-application/581 Jun 21 07:32:55 should be direct link to apply Jun 21 07:33:09 hmm Jun 21 07:33:44 this is the community device program path Jun 21 07:33:57 not the LaunchPad thing other links go to Jun 21 07:37:21 what a great day :) Jun 21 07:39:30 Applied! Jun 21 07:44:11 for some reasons I don't see the launchpad opportunity on Nokia Dev. Guess I wasn't selected... Jun 21 07:45:31 Ah. Finally. Jun 21 07:47:37 julienf: i would suggest going to https://meego.com/community/device-program Jun 21 07:47:49 not Nokia Dev Jun 21 07:48:31 flailingmonkey: I'll leave the community device to community developers, I am far from making any useful apps for the community, but working on an exciting project Jun 21 07:50:20 applied, phoooo, only took like 3h Jun 21 07:50:25 julienf: ah alright. I wouldn't expect much in terms of speed or response from Nokia though :p Jun 21 07:50:45 flailingmonkey: yeah, I'll find a way :) Jun 21 07:50:49 plus I finally got a working account on meego, thanks flailingmonkey :-D Jun 21 07:50:59 DocScrutinizer: no problem lol, I like a challenge Jun 21 07:51:47 I'm looking at the application page, but I don't have much idea of what to write Jun 21 07:52:09 "It's shiny and new, I want one" Jun 21 07:52:16 Sounds about right Jun 21 07:52:32 OMG, Doc, you did not have a meego.com account? :) Jun 21 07:53:31 julienf: I got stuck at developers.nokia.com as well Jun 21 07:53:53 julienf: this launchpad thing kinda seems broken Jun 21 07:54:23 DocScrutinizer: ok. Let's see Jun 21 07:56:52 julienf: DocScrutinizer: FWIW, there doesn't *yet* seem to be a DDP on developer.nokia.com Jun 21 07:57:23 Jaffa: DocScrutinizer that's my understanding... Jun 21 07:58:05 Jaffa: I found out the hard way it seems Jun 21 07:58:26 * thiago_home should apply for a dev device too Jun 21 07:58:44 * khertan is lost on this new developper nokia Jun 21 07:59:35 * khertan think that maybe because it s look like now msdn ... information everywhere Jun 21 07:59:44 https://meego.com/community/device-program Jun 21 07:59:55 By the way, is the SDK out? Jun 21 08:00:04 yes Jun 21 08:00:10 URL? Jun 21 08:00:15 RST38h: Yes. http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/. Existing Qt SDKs can be updated Jun 21 08:00:16 harmattan-dev.nokia.com Jun 21 08:01:12 Jaffa: Yahooooo Jun 21 08:02:03 khertan: it's a text adventure dungeon Jun 21 08:02:38 like git add -i used to be? Jun 21 08:02:45 khertan: I finally go trapped in an endless loop in application forn for lauchpad membership Jun 21 08:02:48 leo_, hi Jun 21 08:02:57 khertan: all other pointers end there Jun 21 08:03:03 sooner or later Jun 21 08:03:04 DocScrutinizer: I've got Launchpad membership. It doesn't help Jun 21 08:03:16 thought as much Jun 21 08:03:27 I think I also have Jun 21 08:03:45 nevertheless all URLs end at that application form Jun 21 08:04:06 vgrade hi Jun 21 08:04:47 you were asking about gma500 Jun 21 08:05:37 yes Jun 21 08:06:03 my tablet can not install meego-tablet Jun 21 08:06:17 only ivi images are built with emgd (GMA500) drivers Jun 21 08:06:49 we built a netbook image recently with EMGD drivers Jun 21 08:06:51 Jaffa: tbh I have no clue where and what launchpad actually is, and which URL to visit to "join" it Jun 21 08:07:02 Where can i found it? Jun 21 08:07:21 what worked for me was installing the netbook image, then one of the kernel adaptation images that included the emgd driver Jun 21 08:07:44 bug10738.openaos.org, look for nokia booklet Jun 21 08:07:47 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10738 nor, Undecided, ---, tero.kojo, NEED, Meego community ftp server or similar needed Jun 21 08:08:36 I want to try tablet ux.How can i build one. Jun 21 08:08:42 to build a tablet image, take the tablet ks and replace the kernel with intel-automotive-kernel and add emgd package. See the booklet ks as an example. Jun 21 08:08:44 anyway thanks anybody for your patience and help getting through this adventure Jun 21 08:09:14 OK. I will try.thanks Jun 21 08:09:35 np Jun 21 08:09:48 what tablet are youo working on? Jun 21 08:11:03 The tablet device have not sell in market. Jun 21 08:12:23 ok, ok Jun 21 08:12:43 http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/unstable/beta/Fremantle_Update7_vs_Harmattan_Beta_content_comparison.html Jun 21 08:12:47 again, I think Harmattan release has a smooth looking SMS/IM interface Jun 21 08:13:13 it was definitely one of the best features of Maemo 5 Jun 21 08:13:44 We want to use meego. It is perfect. Jun 21 08:17:09 khertan; OMG hildon is gone :) Jun 21 08:17:43 hihi ... not a bad things Jun 21 08:18:00 but does QWidget is gone too ... Jun 21 08:18:06 and it s only QML Jun 21 08:18:07 ? Jun 21 08:18:09 leo_, tablet ux running on gma500 based device, http://www.youtube.com/user/vgrade100#p/u/10/WuJbWMsY3bE Jun 21 08:18:11 this is the question Jun 21 08:18:57 khertan: Prolly not Jun 21 08:19:13 ok. i will see Jun 21 08:19:14 I'd not feel surprised to find QML way too heavy for embedded Jun 21 08:19:37 also seems a memory hog Jun 21 08:19:48 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvFwzyCknLg , DocScrutinizer Jun 21 08:19:56 Doc: Konttori says it is not Jun 21 08:19:57 DocScrutinizer, the main qml problem is that currently it s too limited for use case Jun 21 08:20:04 else it s didn't works so bad Jun 21 08:20:13 Doc: At least not until you start making a fool of yourself with JS Jun 21 08:20:15 try to do syntax highlighting in qml Jun 21 08:22:57 leo_, give me a shout if you need a hand. Jun 21 08:23:17 ok Jun 21 08:27:48 Hmm...probably first time in history, Engadget commenters are actually *positive* about a freaking Nokia device Jun 21 08:27:52 (fremantle_vs_harmattan) "removed" doesn't mean we can't get that pkg/whatever anymore? Jun 21 08:28:10 just removed from stock image? Jun 21 08:28:43 RST38h: probably a bad sign Jun 21 08:28:45 RST38h, I just hope it really does have 1GB ram and not that "marketing" ram Jun 21 08:29:14 Doc: Ah, be positive for a day or so! :) Jun 21 08:29:16 like they did with N900 Jun 21 08:29:25 swap isn't ram by any metrics ;-) Jun 21 08:30:19 RST38h: being pessimistic guarantees a life with very few disappointments Jun 21 08:30:22 beats me how they're going to get developers for their platform tho Jun 21 08:30:23 vvaltone: They did not. Jun 21 08:30:40 DocScrutinizer, sure it is, even harddisks are ram Jun 21 08:30:42 Doc: Yea, can sign under every word Jun 21 08:30:56 DocScrutinizer, atleast in loose definition Jun 21 08:31:06 vvaltone: I knew from the beginnign that it had 256MB SDRAM Jun 21 08:31:16 walhava: hmm the loose def isn't generally accepted though Jun 21 08:31:19 vvaltone: If you did not, it simply means you have not researched well enough Jun 21 08:31:28 I never bought one Jun 21 08:31:42 Then it is not worth discussing. Jun 21 08:31:49 there's just a few N900's at work Jun 21 08:33:41 vvaltone: (damn that's two 'v') in nokia's marketing speak there's no ram anyway afaik, at least they happily mix up memory ans storage Jun 21 08:34:11 N9 will be $660 Usd for 16gb and $749 Usd for 64gb Jun 21 08:34:17 if you're interested :) Jun 21 08:34:25 julienf: [citation needed] Jun 21 08:34:44 and for a N9 with a proper uSD slot :-/ Jun 21 08:35:05 @smashpop (who is at the event): The Nokia N9 will be $660 Usd for 16gb and $749 Usd for 64gb Jun 21 08:35:28 DocScrutinizer: N950 for that Jun 21 08:35:43 won't help for mass market Jun 21 08:36:00 N900 wasn't really mass market? Jun 21 08:36:21 I hope they got USB host right, so you could get away in holiday with an external reader for your movies on SD Jun 21 08:37:28 * millenomi lurks a little here given yesterday's announcements Jun 21 08:37:33 welcome Jun 21 08:37:36 MSM1: at least N900 got >>>250 units on sale Jun 21 08:37:42 by the way: there are no hard dates on the new N9*s, right? Jun 21 08:37:45 yet Jun 21 08:38:01 DocScrutinizer: True :P Jun 21 08:38:03 Mooo Stskeeps Jun 21 08:38:09 Doc: You mean, 64GB is not enough? Jun 21 08:38:34 RST38h: Choice is good Jun 21 08:38:54 RST38h: I'm not sure about that, tell me if you're willing to copy a selection of your movies to device prior to your holidays Jun 21 08:39:18 RST38h: also a very common and important feature is offloading videos taken by a *real Jun 21 08:39:20 * Jun 21 08:39:33 cam to some mass storage like N9 Jun 21 08:39:50 you'd need either SD slot or hostmode for that as well Jun 21 08:41:50 I mean there's a whole lot of usecases where the device better is a 'host' rather than a 'gadget' Jun 21 08:42:05 Doc: I *read*. Jun 21 08:42:16 what command meego-sdk-qtcreator uses to upload the created .rpm package to the qemu and install it there Jun 21 08:42:48 has the N900 eMMC bug been fixed yet? Jun 21 08:42:59 which bug? Jun 21 08:43:22 It uses /usr/lib/madde/linux-i686/madbin/rrpmbuild -bb myspec.spec to create the .rpm file Jun 21 08:43:32 where installing it on the eMMC made it really really slow Jun 21 08:43:37 * hiemanshu tries to find the bug Jun 21 08:43:43 aah, nm Jun 21 08:43:47 but after that how does it upload it to the qemu? Jun 21 08:45:08 DocScrutinizer: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18295 Jun 21 08:45:10 Bug 18295 nor, Medium, ---, carsten, NEW, [DE] [N900] eMMC performance is in some cases significantly worse than in Maemo Jun 21 08:45:20 thanks Jun 21 08:56:36 javispedro: how much do you know about shaders and SGX? Jun 21 08:57:41 Stskeeps: "a bit" :). anything more concrete? Jun 21 08:58:03 javispedro: well, it seems to me like sgx requires indication of precision of something Jun 21 08:58:20 that is standard gles Jun 21 08:58:38 hmm Jun 21 08:58:51 sgx maps the three precision reqs to a given registers width Jun 21 08:58:53 i really need to get a debugger to this stuff Jun 21 08:59:07 getting shader compilation errors from qt scenegraph Jun 21 08:59:07 debugging shaders is yuck Jun 21 08:59:10 ehlo javispedro Jun 21 08:59:13 hiemanshu: to me this seems a failure in test procedure rather than a meego kernel issue Jun 21 08:59:21 hello, rst38h Jun 21 09:00:29 hiemanshu: javispedro Jun 21 09:00:39 DocScrutinizer: well I heard that was a big issue which is why I still haven't installed meego on my N900 Jun 21 09:00:40 err sorry hiemanshu Jun 21 09:00:48 javispedro: hi! Jun 21 09:00:56 DocScrutinizer: a lot of people do that :/ Jun 21 09:02:09 stskeeps: get the pdf that is on the sgx sdk Jun 21 09:02:28 stskeeps: it does explain what do the precision reqs mean on sgx Jun 21 09:02:56 hiemanshu: we got that bug in maemo where device effectively freezes on copying large files from uSD to eMMC Jun 21 09:03:45 DocScrutinizer: how big is large files? Jun 21 09:03:46 if your swap is on same storage device where you want to copy a large file to, this is basically normal Jun 21 09:03:59 big here was >500MB iirc Jun 21 09:04:12 YMMV Jun 21 09:04:20 that's right, the swapping choked things Jun 21 09:04:30 probably depends on cache usage, swap status etc pp Jun 21 09:06:27 it's really hard to unentangle swap usage and access to program text from any performance test done on same storage device Jun 21 09:10:30 n9's gpu is the same one as in the n900 Jun 21 09:10:57 nah, better Jun 21 09:11:16 Hooray for MeeGo handsets! Jun 21 09:11:54 http://i.imgur.com/XZ6NK.jpg Jun 21 09:12:21 hah Jun 21 09:12:28 haha Jun 21 09:18:56 Stskeeps: hmm ... in that case the people spread wrong informations on the n9's gpu Jun 21 09:19:08 the people... Jun 21 09:20:01 javispedro: in german http://bestboyz.de/nokia-n9/ Jun 21 09:20:04 BluesLee: n900 sgx can run on 110mhz, that one can run at 200mhz Jun 21 09:20:33 ok, so RST38h is happy: some really nice bit from N9 specs: Audio Recording AAC stereo, 48kHz Jun 21 09:20:48 (2 mic as well :-D ) Jun 21 09:21:11 so decent bootlegs finally Jun 21 09:21:31 Stskeeps: okay, is it a Adreno 200 GPU? Jun 21 09:22:04 I wonder how long until meego-meego is ported to the N9 :) Jun 21 09:22:32 Nokia say disruptive ... but what is disruptiv in this n9 ? Jun 21 09:23:00 it crushes the dreams of a qwerty meego handset Jun 21 09:23:10 and your fingers! Jun 21 09:23:11 BluesLee: err. no Jun 21 09:23:47 it disrupts your dreams of a qwerty handset Jun 21 09:24:12 khertan: distruptive is > N9. Jun 21 09:25:22 Stskeeps: okay, enough fud from me:-) Jun 21 09:25:27 khertan: god point Jun 21 09:25:38 good* Jun 21 09:26:12 lol Jun 21 09:26:34 X-Fade, seriously it was in the event invitation, isn't it ? Jun 21 09:27:08 X-Fade, you mean next mobile after n9 ? or is n9 Jun 21 09:27:12 khertan: Just saw Peter post that on talk :) Jun 21 09:28:24 X-Fade, ouch difficult to found many post in few time on talk :) Jun 21 09:30:31 http://www.nokiablog.ch/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/326932798.jpg <<< i like this one :) Jun 21 09:31:33 X-Fade, lol still not found the post :) Jun 21 09:31:36 khertan: who doesnt, but 250 only. Jun 21 09:31:54 (in the meego community device programme) Jun 21 09:32:29 yep there is more at nokia if i understand well the qgil post Jun 21 09:33:19 oh it s a capacitive screen also ... :( Jun 21 09:33:31 but competing with oss developers just doesnt seem right :/ Jun 21 09:33:59 javispedro: can always sign up as a company then Jun 21 09:34:01 at launchpad Jun 21 09:34:08 when I bet launchpaders will get a larger number and we will see just a handful of commercial apps Jun 21 09:34:41 it s funny to see all post on talk saying that their prefer n950 than n9 due to keyboard Jun 21 09:35:02 massmarket likes the n9 though Jun 21 09:35:55 so same as n900 will happen, probably new inflow of newbies. Nice I guess. Let's hope not to break all the magic with lack of updates! (again) ;) Jun 21 09:35:57 updating sdk for harmattan is pretty slow :) Jun 21 09:37:27 hi! Jun 21 09:38:49 good one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9CWB172FmU Jun 21 09:39:28 is there any HCL available? Jun 21 09:40:37 i guess MohammadAG may start a cssu where he puts landscape mode to the n9:-) hehe ... Jun 21 09:41:26 Did I miss an announcement or something? Jun 21 09:41:39 MohammadAG, it s seems :) Jun 21 09:41:42 :) Jun 21 09:41:52 MohammadAG: you missed nothing Jun 21 09:42:02 MohammadAG, n9, no keyboard but nice device Jun 21 09:42:37 n950 named n9-devkit : but not sold, for "selected" dev only Jun 21 09:42:48 i have an asus t101mt and i wonder if it's touchscreen will work with meego Jun 21 09:42:48 is it fine to discuss n9 here or should we go back to under our bridges (-bar, cnxn)? Jun 21 09:42:57 and the good news : Hint: It's a 1 GB of RAM! Not 256MB... Jun 21 09:43:02 what was the RM680 called in the end? :P Jun 21 09:43:45 n950 aka n9-devkit Jun 21 09:43:47 Mohammandag: the elopmobile Jun 21 09:43:50 MohammadAG, I haven't seen any pictures of the N950, but I would say it's possible that this might be it Jun 21 09:43:55 The consumer one is just N9 though Jun 21 09:44:13 Termana, the n950 flasher bin is nammed rm680 Jun 21 09:45:00 and when's the N950 going out? Jun 21 09:45:17 actually, I'll just read some blogs and see what was announced :p Jun 21 09:45:21 MohammadAG, N950 you have to put in a developer application Jun 21 09:45:31 MohammadAG, I haven't seen any release date for the N9 Jun 21 09:46:13 Termana: you mean i have to become a devloper to get a n950? hmmm ... Jun 21 09:46:50 BluesLee, There has been a limited 250 run of N950s. You put in a developer application and get loaned one Jun 21 09:46:59 Otherwise you buy an N9 Jun 21 09:47:16 250 is not much ... Jun 21 09:48:34 Termana, N9 , its end of this year Jun 21 09:48:41 Termana, http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/devices/nokia-n9-00 Jun 21 09:48:52 "end of this year", that's not a specific date though :p Jun 21 09:49:07 Q4 :P Jun 21 09:50:00 Listen, when you all buy N9s, do not buy blue or redish pink. That is just disgraceful. It only looks good in black :p Jun 21 09:50:02 well 250 for meego.com devs, and more for the launchpad and professional devs Jun 21 09:50:08 hmm, not available in germany?! Jun 21 09:51:36 Termana: those are cyan and magenta Jun 21 09:52:47 Tm_T: nuh. Maybe the blue could be said to be cyan, but the other one is definitely not magenta Jun 21 09:53:13 Magenta is more purpleish Jun 21 09:53:22 Either way, get black Jun 21 09:54:00 Once you go black you can never... oh wait, I don't think that's in reference to phones Jun 21 09:54:14 uh, where do i apply for the n950 Jun 21 09:54:18 http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/06/nokia-n950-developer.jpg Jun 21 09:54:35 it looks more magenta in person imo Jun 21 09:55:12 I think it is fuchsia color :) Jun 21 09:55:13 hi Jun 21 09:55:31 are you happy about brand new N9 guys? Jun 21 09:55:32 X-Fade: isnt that the same thing :P Jun 21 09:55:39 khertan, it is slightly disappointing they are not retailing the N950 Jun 21 09:55:50 Termana: i agree Jun 21 09:56:12 for me perfect device would have been current N9 + N950 keyboard Jun 21 09:56:12 But I'm still happy about the N9, it looks great. Jun 21 09:56:19 khertan: perphaps if the devkits are ugly like that one noone will want them and we might find a slot in the 250! Jun 21 09:56:22 yes it does Jun 21 09:57:00 javispedro, hum ... i like it ... prefer it to the n9 :) Jun 21 09:57:21 i'm gonna buy N9 since it will be out, and my N900 will stay my developer & tester device Jun 21 09:57:25 http://www.nokiablog.ch/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/326932798.jpg Jun 21 09:57:48 TheBootroo, if i can't get an n950 i ll probably stay with my n900 Jun 21 09:58:22 khertan: i thought same thing but finally i changed : i requested for a n950 but will surely buy N9 Jun 21 09:58:51 Maybe if we each chip in a little and there's enough of us, they will do a special production run of N950s for us :p Jun 21 09:58:55 Wishful thinking :p Jun 21 09:58:56 i wonder if i can somehow talk them into letting me keep this n950 prototype i've had laying around at the office ... Jun 21 09:59:08 what command qtcreator uses to install a .rpm package to qemu Jun 21 09:59:12 khertan: where did you get this picture of a black N950 SWITCHED ON for hell's sake !! Jun 21 09:59:34 does it have curved screen too ? Jun 21 09:59:46 if yes i definetely want this one !! Jun 21 10:00:06 nope Jun 21 10:00:07 TheBootroo, it s not my picture : http://www.nokiablog.ch/ Jun 21 10:00:16 it doesn't have a curved screen Jun 21 10:00:25 khertan: i jknow but i asked on which news ? Jun 21 10:01:09 TheBootroo, http://www.nokiablog.ch/first-view-of-a-black-nokia-n950-dev-device/3451/ Jun 21 10:01:12 but no nfc Jun 21 10:01:17 worse compass Jun 21 10:01:25 less memory than n9 Jun 21 10:01:39 really ? Jun 21 10:01:48 source is http://twitpic.com/5enaym Jun 21 10:01:50 i dont care about compass though Jun 21 10:02:02 same memory Jun 21 10:02:03 i need to put this website in my RSS reader :D Jun 21 10:02:14 both have 1 GB Jun 21 10:02:18 worse compass?? Jun 21 10:02:24 yes, less accurate Jun 21 10:02:33 There was some table somewhere comparing them Jun 21 10:02:42 thiago_home: that what i beleive too Jun 21 10:03:14 thiago_home: do you hold one ? Jun 21 10:03:18 TheBootroo, the release note of the n950 flasher : http://pastebin.com/0SWqx8JL Jun 21 10:03:39 thiago_home, nice to hear that it got 1Gb too Jun 21 10:04:29 and n950 have better screen ... or not ... depends if you prefer 4" or 3,9" oled :) Jun 21 10:04:45 tft versus amoled Jun 21 10:04:46 :) Jun 21 10:08:25 is there a terminal for n950 somewhere? Jun 21 10:09:17 javispedro: see anything wrong SGX-wise with these shaders? http://pastie.org/2100686 Jun 21 10:09:54 hena: meego-terminal on gitorious :) Jun 21 10:10:07 cool Jun 21 10:10:09 thanks Jun 21 10:18:42 stskeeps:fragment shader does not have precision? Jun 21 10:18:53 yeah, that is what i thought odd Jun 21 10:19:10 is it required on GL but not GLES? Jun 21 10:19:19 gles requires it surely Jun 21 10:19:30 iirc its required for fragment shaders Jun 21 10:19:33 ok Jun 21 10:19:34 but not vertex Jun 21 10:19:47 vertex assumes max precision Jun 21 10:21:08 so how would i fix that shader? Jun 21 10:21:52 add something like precision highp float on top of the fragment shader Jun 21 10:22:03 "precision highp float" I mean Jun 21 10:22:07 ok Jun 21 10:23:25 same for any other used type, eg precision highp vec4 Jun 21 10:24:28 (no, not required for vec4s =) ) Jun 21 10:27:34 TheBootroo: no, I have an earlier prototype Jun 21 10:38:02 sup Jun 21 10:38:21 does meego have a dlna app ? Jun 21 10:38:30 only thing I was missing from the n9 specs tv out or dlna Jun 21 10:46:23 warning: /var/cache/zypp/packages/1.2.0-oss/i586/btrfs-progs-0.19-13.1.i586.rpm: Header V3 RSA/SHA1 Signature, key ID 44e4155a: NOKEY Jun 21 10:46:41 even using "zypper --no-gpg-checks" Jun 21 10:46:57 kavacha: Notice the 'warning' Jun 21 10:48:06 473 people in the chan and no one can tell me if Meego does DLNA? Jun 21 10:48:59 Luca: No specific apps. Jun 21 10:49:04 thanks X-Fade: it is just the next lines "The package integrity check failed. This may be a problem with the repository or media. Try one of the following: Jun 21 10:49:04 - just retry previous command Jun 21 10:49:04 ..." Jun 21 10:49:12 seemed to suggest it did not succeed Jun 21 10:49:21 I had not tested if it actually installed :( Jun 21 10:50:46 is an update planned to integrate it? Jun 21 10:51:30 Luca: #meego deals with the meego platform, you'd have to ask nokia about their differentation features Jun 21 10:52:10 right on. Jun 21 10:52:19 seems that feature requests meego 1.2 for DLNA are open Jun 21 10:52:28 Well, I was going to answer his question Jun 21 10:52:30 but whatever Jun 21 10:52:46 For everyone else - the device details page shows TV Out Jun 21 10:53:17 err... maybe he asked it in another channel Jun 21 10:53:32 But that is blurry analog :) Jun 21 10:53:42 Somewhere he said TV Out OR DNLA - too many channels talking about the N9 :p Jun 21 10:54:17 Anyway, gupnp and rygel can be installed easily. Jun 21 10:55:42 thiago_home: an earlier proto of N9 or N950 ? Jun 21 10:56:28 morning, looks like I slept through something Jun 21 10:59:32 http://press.nokia.com/wp-content/uploads/mediaplugin/doc/1-nokia-n9-data-sheet.pdf Jun 21 10:59:49 pronostics for release date of N9 ? Jun 21 11:10:06 when do we get N9 with hardware keyboard? or habtic display? Jun 21 11:11:40 pexi: The N9 does not have a hardware keyboard. The N950, available through developer channels - including the meego.com Community Device Programme - does, but has some other minor hardware differences as well (material, size, screen type, NFC) Jun 21 11:19:34 so its there Jun 21 11:19:49 Jaffa, hope they change their strategy and put it on the market.. with metal casing :) Jun 21 11:20:25 pexi: polycarbonate for better reception :) Jun 21 11:20:44 all i am curious about is the price Jun 21 11:20:45 its not a phone! Jun 21 11:20:57 TheBootroo: earlier proto of N950 Jun 21 11:20:58 pexi: 3G needs reception too :) Jun 21 11:21:06 damn :) Jun 21 11:21:19 i think they will charge just way too much for it to make a dent in the market Jun 21 11:21:53 it has to be at least $150 cheaper then the galaxy s2 Jun 21 11:22:00 and they will not do that Jun 21 11:22:32 they will charge the same for a device with a screen thats less good, a single core processor and a smaller battery and way less apps Jun 21 11:23:02 but its a very good phone though from what i can see Jun 21 11:23:12 who cares about cpu if it has gpu :) Jun 21 11:23:59 the galaxy s2 has a gpu Jun 21 11:24:10 Hi! Jun 21 11:24:35 its a very good looking phone too by the way Jun 21 11:24:36 gladly they managed to put 1gb of memory Jun 21 11:24:44 Does it really matter WHICH Atom-CPU a tablet should have to make MeeGoo working? Jun 21 11:25:14 are there any tablets running meego out there? Jun 21 11:26:33 does that amoled need finger-touch or are gloves enough? Jun 21 11:26:40 IcanCU: The compability list shows that there are. Jun 21 11:26:51 ok Jun 21 11:27:01 have only seen prototypes Jun 21 11:27:03 thiago_home: did you please using the proto ? Jun 21 11:27:03 (because half of the year u r wearing gloves around here) Jun 21 11:27:18 TheBootroo: did I what? Jun 21 11:27:53 thiago_home: was it pleasing to use the earlier n950 ? more than a N900 ? Jun 21 11:28:31 yes Jun 21 11:28:41 speed ? Jun 21 11:28:48 not to many bugs ? Jun 21 11:29:48 in fact, harmattan is really MeeGo Core 1.2 with just custom Desktop and theme and some nokia/ovi apps ? or really maemo 5 + updated packages + meeego appearance ? i mean could we in the future install meego apps on the N9 ? Jun 21 11:30:11 calling it maemo5 would be a shame, completely different architecture.. Jun 21 11:30:37 Correct me if I'm wrong, but is there a development-version of MeeGo available? Jun 21 11:31:00 Stskeeps: so its more meego than maemo Jun 21 11:31:42 in facts nokia only made a great UI constructor ui for Core MeeGo basis,just like other meego vendors could do Jun 21 11:33:24 i like the open app drawer Jun 21 11:33:38 the notification feed i'm not too sure about Jun 21 11:34:21 i'm worried about my missed call notification getting burried under rss and twitter and facebook notifications too soon Jun 21 11:35:21 missed call notifications should not be equal to rss update on a phone imho Jun 21 11:35:49 but i need to see it in action to form better judgement Jun 21 11:36:06 Have to logout now. Take care. Jun 21 11:36:51 IcanCU: hopefully sms and calls are separted : they appears on top of event timeline until you 'clear' the list Jun 21 11:37:07 yes will need to see how the do that Jun 21 11:37:11 they Jun 21 11:37:15 any ETA for avaibility ? 1 month ? 2 month ? christmas ? Jun 21 11:37:35 IcanCU: wait Jun 21 11:37:59 wait for what? Jun 21 11:38:06 IcanCU: yous ee it here : http://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/pages/PB_Navigating_the_Home_Screens.html Jun 21 11:38:23 ah yes Jun 21 11:38:28 looks good Jun 21 11:38:40 yes indeed Jun 21 11:38:46 look very very very cute Jun 21 11:39:18 are folders possible in the app drawer? Jun 21 11:40:09 they remvoed it on maemo5 after update so i dont think they enabled it again on maemo 6/meego Jun 21 11:40:49 thiago_home: but like on N900 would be possible with some apps like 'catorise' Jun 21 11:41:44 it would become a very long list without folders Jun 21 11:41:53 for my part i would rather prefer category separator instead of folders because it would induce less clicks Jun 21 11:42:19 just separators between 'media' 'communication' 'productivity' and 'game' Jun 21 11:42:37 would be sweet Jun 21 11:43:02 it looks very nice Jun 21 11:43:18 OMG yes Jun 21 11:43:21 ;-) Jun 21 11:43:33 and the website too Jun 21 11:44:12 neeeeeed Jun 21 11:44:23 need a release date, no matter the price Jun 21 11:44:25 I guess you could have it behind some configuration key, send your merge requests to https://meego.gitorious.org/meegotouch/meegotouch-home :) Jun 21 11:45:31 kuzak: nokia N9 uses nokia's own UX, not default public UX from git repos Jun 21 11:45:43 IcanCU, Just saw a video demo where they stated that email, sms and missed calls are listed above other stuff like twiter etc Jun 21 11:45:53 yes i saw it Jun 21 11:46:01 it looks nice Jun 21 11:46:23 cool, i got disconnected briefly between your question and when I saw the video Jun 21 11:47:06 IcanCU, I hope you can strip all the facebook/twitter junk out completely without too much hassle Jun 21 11:47:17 TheBootroo, it used both, public code + closed plugins. It seems to me that the public part has the launcher, see the file names in https://meego.gitorious.org/meegotouch/meegotouch-home/trees/master/src/libmeegotouchhome Jun 21 11:47:31 kidproquo__: Just don't have friends. Easy. Jun 21 11:48:23 kuzak: i know nokia uses some meego basis, but the 3 views desktop is obviously not the default one (which is made of app grid with fiwed panel and pages) Jun 21 11:48:46 X-Fade, that can be arranged, but I don't want it to be like the situation with iOS where there are some useless apps that are provided that you can't get rid of Jun 21 11:49:09 kidproquo__: If you don't add your twitter account, it won't show up :) Jun 21 11:49:25 X-Fade, good to hear Jun 21 11:49:30 how do we access XTerm in the N9 UI ? Jun 21 11:49:42 TheBootroo: By installing the terminal app? Jun 21 11:50:04 X-Fade: ok sweet Jun 21 11:50:16 i'm testing with my own Jun 21 11:50:19 ;-) Jun 21 11:50:53 (paper version of the website picture.... i dont own the real device, too bad.... can't wait -_- ) Jun 21 12:01:44 i hope someone is going to put this meego skin on android :P Jun 21 12:02:01 Android bleh Jun 21 12:02:26 MSM1: +1 Jun 21 12:03:40 could you tell more about HDMI throught USB adapter ? Jun 21 12:03:52 is this a rumour ? Jun 21 12:04:25 In principle, if it supports USB host mode - or OTG - it could work Jun 21 12:05:38 it does not have the powe for that Jun 21 12:06:08 it seems N9 doesn'T even have any hostmode, according to specs page Jun 21 12:06:26 so Tv out is only poor Jack adapter ? N8 has HDMI Jun 21 12:06:44 which is especially unfortunate as it also has no external storage slot Jun 21 12:08:29 no HDMI on the N9 is what i heard Jun 21 12:09:33 they really need to be selling this device at an agressive price pint for people to be remotely interested Jun 21 12:09:46 Indeed. Jun 21 12:09:54 And they need to be selling it now. Jun 21 12:09:57 yes Jun 21 12:10:05 And have been doing the developer program 6 months ago Jun 21 12:10:07 $400 off contact max Jun 21 12:10:32 lol Jun 21 12:10:38 500 Jun 21 12:10:42 no way Jun 21 12:10:49 the galaxy s2 is 550 here off contact Jun 21 12:10:52 people are still pissed off about the n900 Jun 21 12:10:56 Lol Jun 21 12:11:00 :p Jun 21 12:11:08 The N900 didn't even make it here :-( Jun 21 12:11:13 no hdmi, no sd card, no fmtx, no keyboard ---> no more than 500€ Jun 21 12:11:27 no mor then 400 Jun 21 12:11:38 do capacitive screens work with scratch protectors? Jun 21 12:11:40 500€ for that device? are you kidding? Jun 21 12:11:43 IcanCU: for 400, remove the NFC and compass Jun 21 12:11:46 lcuk yes Jun 21 12:11:55 do they work with resistive overlay? Jun 21 12:11:58 then the galaxy s2 is the better option Jun 21 12:12:08 lcuk: depends Jun 21 12:12:08 lcuk: no need for protection since its gorilla glass Jun 21 12:12:14 lcuk: usually not that good Jun 21 12:12:17 see reasoning ^ Jun 21 12:12:27 IcanCU: galaxy is android shit Jun 21 12:12:36 and TheBootroo you were the one who assumed the device Jun 21 12:12:48 lcuk: wut ? Jun 21 12:12:49 TheBootroo at least they already have a working market Jun 21 12:12:50 lcuk: resistive overlay doesn't work definitely Jun 21 12:12:50 :P Jun 21 12:12:54 android shit? Jun 21 12:12:59 I said capacitive, you assumed a specific thing :P Jun 21 12:13:04 where is the argument in that? Jun 21 12:13:20 IcanCU: android is fragmented java os Jun 21 12:13:23 = shit Jun 21 12:13:29 hey everyone Jun 21 12:13:31 but Jun 21 12:13:36 meego is modular qt c++ os Jun 21 12:13:40 = win Jun 21 12:13:40 TheBootroo meego is a nonfragmented nothing right now Jun 21 12:13:42 lcuk: ?? Jun 21 12:13:43 so i just saw the news that Nokia released a MeeGo phone Jun 21 12:13:49 apps are overratted Jun 21 12:13:57 not for consumers Jun 21 12:13:58 ^ Jun 21 12:14:02 its not like people are going to booting up and android phone and say hey Jun 21 12:14:07 is this because it's the last phone so they went all out? Jun 21 12:14:08 this feels really fragmented Jun 21 12:14:13 millions of apps are just there to hide lack of basis functionnalities out a the box Jun 21 12:14:25 like which basic functionality? Jun 21 12:14:36 name just one Jun 21 12:14:41 TheBootroo like the nonworking keys in libsocial? Jun 21 12:14:46 :D Jun 21 12:15:12 IcanCU: read all audio / video formats, connect almost all web service without additional apps, read office and pdf files Jun 21 12:15:31 IcanCU: is it enough Jun 21 12:15:32 TheBootroo but the all audio/video depends on the vendor rigfht? Jun 21 12:15:37 question about n9: Jun 21 12:15:41 all audio formats i aree Jun 21 12:15:46 pure meego tablet can't even play mp3 or flac Jun 21 12:15:48 how can I flick through the photo collection Jun 21 12:15:50 it can read office apps in google docs Jun 21 12:15:52 I see some videos Jun 21 12:15:55 ^^ Jun 21 12:15:57 same with pdf Jun 21 12:16:00 and people try flicking through like normal Jun 21 12:16:06 and the system flicking overtaks Jun 21 12:16:09 overtakes Jun 21 12:16:32 IcanCU: oh yeah is see, i need to send my docs over the web to read them in google docs --> pityfull Jun 21 12:16:46 i have no probs with that Jun 21 12:16:58 and there are many free doc viewers Jun 21 12:17:02 you don't always have good connection for that Jun 21 12:17:14 IcanCU: that you need to know and download Jun 21 12:17:18 TheBootroo where is a ebookreader? Jun 21 12:17:19 yes Jun 21 12:17:30 but most andrid deviced come with those build in Jun 21 12:17:37 pebcak: digia made one i saw last week Jun 21 12:17:40 htc sony and samsig all build this on Jun 21 12:17:40 and if apps are overrated, why is there the almost empty intel appup? Jun 21 12:17:44 pebcak: i will find the link Jun 21 12:17:57 pebcak: for hype Jun 21 12:18:09 I can see this "Installing package to device..." in Qt creator output while deploying ..can I do that from my command prompt? Jun 21 12:18:09 TheBootroo bullshit Jun 21 12:18:13 :) Jun 21 12:19:13 pebcak: already intoxicated with Apple'istic madness about 'apps apps apps apps' that gained android and WP7 too Jun 21 12:19:28 applications* Jun 21 12:20:04 pebcak: meego is all about modularity and plugins, no need to multiplicate apps that do barely the same thing with a few difference, just do a plugin for a standard program Jun 21 12:20:15 TheBootroo nothing to do with apple Jun 21 12:20:42 pebcak: that is apple who started this 'an app for that' paradigm Jun 21 12:20:49 and that is bullshit Jun 21 12:21:00 TheBootroo I had "apps" long before apple Jun 21 12:21:04 apt-get away :P Jun 21 12:21:33 i prefer having a 'communication program' with plugins for skype msn facebook gtalk etc ... rather than having 10 different lists of contacts/messages/Statuses Jun 21 12:21:45 pebcak: i know apt get too Jun 21 12:21:53 yum* Jun 21 12:22:09 pebcak: but why the fuck would we need 5 different video player on a PHONE Jun 21 12:22:14 TheBootroo that's still not the point, the point is, meego still does not provide all the functionality I like Jun 21 12:22:20 MSM1: yum yum ? Jun 21 12:22:30 pebcak: like which one ? Jun 21 12:22:37 pebcak: tell me just one ? Jun 21 12:22:43 TheBootroo: If you wanted ;-) Jun 21 12:23:00 MSM1: i do i do i do Jun 21 12:23:00 bbl Jun 21 12:23:06 TheBootroo why oh why do we have 5 des, 50 window managers and 100 mail programs in linux/unix userland Jun 21 12:23:21 we just need one Jun 21 12:23:24 right? Jun 21 12:23:29 pebcak: Because choice is good Jun 21 12:23:29 pebcak: i wondered the same, it annoys new users Jun 21 12:23:41 choice is only good if the options are tasty Jun 21 12:23:41 MSM1 try to explain that to TheBootroo Jun 21 12:23:53 walk into a sweetshop with hundreds of jars Jun 21 12:24:05 you will go and find the one you ate as a kid Jun 21 12:24:23 pebcak: i don't need explanantions, i always hated too many fragmentation and redundance Jun 21 12:24:24 lcuk nah, those aren't around anymore Jun 21 12:24:26 :| Jun 21 12:24:38 pebcak, I know of a few Jun 21 12:24:46 there is usually one in each large shopping centre Jun 21 12:24:50 bustling with folks Jun 21 12:24:52 TheBootroo I would say you are far closer to apple than I am Jun 21 12:25:05 sry Jun 21 12:25:07 double post Jun 21 12:25:09 lcuk they aren't made anymore Jun 21 12:25:17 pebcak, what aren't? Jun 21 12:25:24 sweetshops? Jun 21 12:25:28 the sweets of my childhood :| Jun 21 12:25:31 *sniff* Jun 21 12:25:33 what are they? Jun 21 12:25:42 east german stuff :D Jun 21 12:25:50 pebcak: i dont want to limit options like apple, just regroup them to facilitate navigation and managing Jun 21 12:26:05 TheBootroo oh, but you do Jun 21 12:26:28 pebcak: not necessarely Jun 21 12:27:40 TheBootroo the digia reader is also only avaible for vendors afaik Jun 21 12:27:42 but for example on my N900 i always prefered using gtalk integration for default conversation program than installing PIdgin or other external client that wouldn't be well integrated with the system backbone frameworks and services Jun 21 12:27:49 so what do I do with my current meego device? Jun 21 12:28:11 pebcak: give it to me Jun 21 12:28:14 Well integrated software is a must for any OS Jun 21 12:28:21 i know what to do with it Jun 21 12:28:42 TheBootroo blubb, you know what I meant Jun 21 12:29:00 and can the default do otr, encryption and whatnot? Jun 21 12:29:01 MSM1: yes so if we create a full app for each need, we can't integrate, just duplicate, we need grouping Jun 21 12:29:30 OTR ? Jun 21 12:30:00 pebcak: read that http://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/pages/Development_Options.html Jun 21 12:30:37 * Aranel w00t, Nokia N9 looks awesome! (just needs a qwerty keyboard :|) Jun 21 12:31:01 TheBootroo forget about it, I guess I'll leave you to your "choice is bad"-paradigm Jun 21 12:31:22 btw, I cant find a benchmark between A8 (N900) and OMAP3630 (N9), anyone know a credible source on this? Jun 21 12:31:33 pebcak: choice is not bad but i think 'apps apps apps apps apps' madness is bad Jun 21 12:31:37 Aranel: OMAP3430 vs OMAP3630 Jun 21 12:31:41 Aranel: not A8 Jun 21 12:31:50 both are cortex A8 cores Jun 21 12:31:58 applications* Jun 21 12:32:00 TheBootroo apps is just a fucking word Jun 21 12:32:01 true Jun 21 12:32:10 Hey araster Jun 21 12:32:17 Stskeeps: okay ^^ Jun 21 12:32:22 anyone using meego latest image + qemu? Jun 21 12:32:24 pebcak: yes the only fuckin word customers have in their mouth Jun 21 12:32:33 hesetys: does it mean it performs similar to a OC'd N9? Jun 21 12:32:36 N900* Jun 21 12:32:54 if you get your "application" via intelapp or yum is completely irrelevant Jun 21 12:32:57 for number cpu intensive things it should be Jun 21 12:33:03 s/number// Jun 21 12:33:03 hesetys meant: for cpu intensive things it should be Jun 21 12:33:18 Aranel: slightly better. you will notice larger ram more than cpu. Jun 21 12:34:40 ^^ sure I will, 1gb o.O Jun 21 12:35:28 anyone got a n950? Jun 21 12:35:29 :D Jun 21 12:35:44 pebcak: thiago_home had a proto Jun 21 12:35:56 did someone had a proto of the N9 ? Jun 21 12:36:07 ;-) Jun 21 12:36:17 apparently it's classified Jun 21 12:36:18 MSM1: you ? Jun 21 12:36:20 I've seen many in the office Jun 21 12:36:22 but I don't have one Jun 21 12:36:24 * MSM1 hides Jun 21 12:36:28 I have a proto of the N950 Jun 21 12:36:35 thiago_home: you are lucky one Jun 21 12:36:53 so if i did have one, i can't talk about it. :) Jun 21 12:36:56 MSM1: gimme your (soul) N9 Jun 21 12:37:17 would prefer the n950 over the n9 I guess Jun 21 12:37:24 yep Jun 21 12:37:31 hena: now it has been officialised, NDA does not stays right ? Jun 21 12:37:57 i would like working at nokia Jun 21 12:38:00 PowerVR SGX530. :| exactly same as N900. o.o Jun 21 12:38:02 TheBootroo, an NDA can only be cleared by the party involved Jun 21 12:38:22 TheBootroo: Good troll! =) Jun 21 12:38:32 ATM i work in a french company that does Qt dev but no exciting smartphone projects Jun 21 12:38:41 I doubt nokia will exist for much longer Jun 21 12:39:01 lcuk: too bad Jun 21 12:39:06 a workbuddy worked for nokia til june :D Jun 21 12:39:16 Also TheBootroo I have no soul (N9) Jun 21 12:39:16 * timoph wonders if this whole conversation could be taken to #meego-bar Jun 21 12:39:19 he is very happy to have left Jun 21 12:39:36 pebcak: what did he saw O.o Jun 21 12:39:39 MSM1: damn Jun 21 12:40:07 i think n8 and n9 are some of the best looking devices Jun 21 12:40:12 TheBootroo hehe, he was a linuxadmin there, nothing to exciting I guess, but they were constantly short of admins Jun 21 13:06:22 Hi! anyone here knows if the N9 will have rootable meego? Jun 21 13:06:38 as in: I can install gnome on the phone Jun 21 13:06:58 * pebcak giggles Jun 21 13:06:58 the_lord: if you can get the packages, sure. Jun 21 13:07:34 alterego: as long as it's ARM, if I can't get them, I'll make them Jun 21 13:07:36 :) Jun 21 13:07:56 That was sort of my point :P Jun 21 13:09:29 how can i check qt included in meego sdk is a debug build or release build? Jun 21 13:09:37 is this the place for QML discussions ? Jun 21 13:10:55 rcherian:#qt-qml Jun 21 13:11:11 thanks bkalinga Jun 21 13:13:14 a n9 with thinkoutside stowaway wouldn't be so bad Jun 21 13:15:48 An N9 with an N900 tethered to it wouldn't be so bad :P Jun 21 13:16:03 I can imagine a bracket, that allows you to mod an N9 on to the top of the N900 Jun 21 13:16:18 alterego: aaargh :) Jun 21 13:17:06 alterego: how about a little case for n9 with a keyboard cover Jun 21 13:17:12 folds out like mini-laptop Jun 21 13:17:47 povlinski: Im sure there will be Jun 21 13:17:47 povlinski: i was going to think the same thing : a leather case with integrated bluetooth keyboard for N9 Jun 21 13:17:59 MSM1: u serius ? Jun 21 13:18:38 Perhaps a 3rd party one Jun 21 13:18:50 TheBootroo: there is a little case for the iphone 4 with a keyboard on a slide. Jun 21 13:18:56 or a mini-netbook-like dock just as the Asus Transformer : would be great : then its foldable not slidable Jun 21 13:19:05 SpeedEvil: didn't know Jun 21 13:19:18 Haha that's a pretty cool idea. Jun 21 13:20:14 http://www.dealextreme.com/p/ultrathin-bluetooth-slide-out-keyboard-hard-case-for-apple-iphone-4-black-65669 Jun 21 13:21:00 I like the dock idea : we could pack hmdi usb and battery in the dock Jun 21 13:21:01 So N9 is really *not using* MeeGo but Maemo : http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/unstable/beta/Fremantle_Update7_vs_Harmattan_Beta_content_comparison.html ? Jun 21 13:21:17 SpeedEvil: this is cheap, is it actually working? Jun 21 13:21:45 aissen, so where does your link state that? Jun 21 13:22:00 http://www.gizmag.com/nuu-mini-key-iphone-4-slide-out-keyboard/16341/picture/120517/ Jun 21 13:22:28 aissen, the package names? Jun 21 13:22:29 clbr: I presume so - I haven't bought one, as I have no iphone 4 Jun 21 13:22:32 andre__: hum, deb* packages ? Jun 21 13:22:51 deb packages! the end of the world! it clearly means it is a entirely different distro! Jun 21 13:23:21 javispedro: how else do you define a distro ? Jun 21 13:23:21 yeah, if it's deb packages it's probably even Debian instead of Maemo now! *shudder* Jun 21 13:23:32 aissen: The API on which the apps are written Jun 21 13:23:36 aissen, components and API? Jun 21 13:23:40 aissen: I define it by who upstream is. Jun 21 13:23:41 aissen: The build system which turns them into something installable Jun 21 13:23:44 aissen: apps.meego.com Jun 21 13:23:46 Jaffa: yeah, how do you define Fedora APIs ? Jun 21 13:24:02 aissen: Why do I give a f*ck about Fedora? Jun 21 13:24:16 well, we're talking distros Jun 21 13:24:18 SpeedEvil: maybe this would be better http://mobilitydigest.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/typetop.jpg Jun 21 13:24:28 aissen: greatly instructive page kthx Jun 21 13:24:50 aissen: If I write an app with Qt, I can target Harmattan & MeeGo with the same code (modulo MeeGo UX/Qt Quick Components); I can target Maemo 5 easily and Symbian straightforwardly Jun 21 13:24:50 I've seen that N9 is "API compatible" with Meego 1.2, which means basically they have Qt packages… Jun 21 13:25:08 afternoon, I hear something exciting has happened during my house move Jun 21 13:25:21 lardman, just yet another product, I think. Jun 21 13:25:32 aissen: If I then take my tarball and upload it to COBS on meego.com, and get an RPM for MeeGo-compliant devices and a deb for Harmattan, and it appears on apps.meego.com - why do I care? Jun 21 13:25:35 Hey lardman Jun 21 13:25:41 yes lardman I was able to use mbarcode and extract a 2d one before person in front of me with an iphone Jun 21 13:25:44 * lcuk calls that a win Jun 21 13:25:47 still, it's *not* MeeGo under the hood. It's not using core LF repos. Jun 21 13:26:06 aissen: Correct. Jun 21 13:26:19 lcuk: so it works on the new device? cool Jun 21 13:26:28 lardman, n900 Jun 21 13:26:42 aissen: However, there are very few MeeGo apps right now. I bet within 2 weeks of N950s being shipped there'll be more Harmattan apps than MeeGo apps. Do you still want to keep a distinction then? ;-) Jun 21 13:26:49 lcuk: with Meego, good good Jun 21 13:26:55 alterego was saying "oh its on xyz device" I said simon already coded it ages ago on n900 :P Jun 21 13:27:04 Jaffa: I personnaly don't care. I use both .deb and .rpm based distros and I prefer the former. Jun 21 13:27:18 does fenix-meegotouch package represent the new webkit browser ? Jun 21 13:27:44 I find it funny that everyone out there thinks it's MeeGo's first step on handsets. Jun 21 13:27:45 I don't think the switch from deb to rpm should be a showstopper for anyone Jun 21 13:27:51 aissen: I care about the overall experience. If that's good, but RPM, on MeeGo - fine. If it's good, but deb, on Debian/Ubuntu/Maemo and Harmattan, fine :-) Jun 21 13:28:10 Jaffa: if the quality of harmatten apps is equivalent to the quality of fremantle apps, then i would say meego can do without them Jun 21 13:28:17 Jaffa: true. Jun 21 13:28:29 aissen: This *is* big for MeeGo. It will "prove" to the industry that you can build a compelling mass-market consumer device on MeeGo. (Even if we know it's Harmattan & deb rather than MeeGo & rpm) Jun 21 13:28:29 fiferboy: it's not, still IMO it isn't the same OS. Jun 21 13:28:49 Jaffa: the proof will therefore *not* be complete. Jun 21 13:28:53 aissen: I agree and I don't think that can be disputed Jun 21 13:29:17 ali1234: Could you point to your excellent contributions, either apps; bug reports or feedback? :-p Jun 21 13:29:27 aissen: all said when meego was annouced that dep would have been better than rpm : at least here they get what they wanted.... Jun 21 13:29:32 aissen: I do not understand why you center on deb vs rpm when it's just a part of the stack. the larger part (in manhours) is meegotouch and user space apps. ask nokia. Jun 21 13:29:33 Jaffa: yes actually i coudl, it will take a while to compile it all though Jun 21 13:29:34 And it is unfortunate that it is not trivial to change from packagine rpm to deb Jun 21 13:29:55 fiferboy: obs should "automate" that away from you (last time I heard) Jun 21 13:30:01 aissen: It won't matter to the industry. So far, MeeGo's reference UXes are - frankly - laughable. Jun 21 13:30:20 Jaffa: however, the biggest contribution i made was not filling the fremantle repos with poor quality ports of sortware from desktop distros Jun 21 13:30:24 javispedro: Mmm. As long as the SDK provides the right metadata. It goes a long way, but you still have to edit debian/control manually for description etc. Jun 21 13:30:34 javispedro: In which direction? Deb to RPM? Jun 21 13:31:09 fiferboy: Either way. The *aim* is to define the common metadata in Qt Creator and have it upload it to COBS and you get deb & RPM out Jun 21 13:31:23 javispedro: it's a core part of the stack. I think it shouldn't be named MeeGo, since everyone suffered (or not) through the move to RPMs, and Nokia didn't even bother. Jun 21 13:31:23 and sis and installshield Jun 21 13:31:27 Jaffa, ^ Jun 21 13:31:29 TheBootroo: indeed Jun 21 13:31:46 Jaffa: I don't know how I missed that news. It should certainly be possible. Jun 21 13:31:55 lcuk: Well, you don't get the SIS from COBS; but yes :) Jun 21 13:32:02 Jaffa: I agree to you statement about MeeGo's reference UXes Jun 21 13:32:12 the central point about packaging metadata is strong and right Jun 21 13:32:16 aissen: Not calling it MeeGo *will* hurt MeeGo more than having a sibling out there with debs Jun 21 13:32:17 Jaffa: the alternative would be a proprietary UX from Nokia ? Jun 21 13:32:19 what builds the packages is not important Jun 21 13:33:07 Jaffa: yes, that's the point. The core point of MeeGo was sharing "distribution" and "core stack" resources. It seems like it never happened. Jun 21 13:33:10 aissen: The suggestion has always been that vendors would build their own differentiating UX. Nokia are the first to really do that in a big way Jun 21 13:33:13 aissen: intel's tablet ux is not that bad Jun 21 13:33:27 aissen: Err, go and wc how much Nokia code is in MeeGo 1.2 Jun 21 13:33:38 TheBootroo: yep, if you happen to be running the latest and greatest and succeded in upgrading to it. Jun 21 13:33:38 aissen: The core programming technologies are Qt & QML. Jun 21 13:33:57 TheBootroo: It doesn't hold up - in any way - to Android or iOS, though. Jun 21 13:34:16 Jaffa: I know that. Still, just like .debs and rpms do not define a distro, neither does Qt&QML. Jun 21 13:34:32 Jaffa, do you still want to be on the tsg? Jun 21 13:34:36 Jaffa: i find tablet ux panels better than ipad OS Jun 21 13:34:40 or honeycomb Jun 21 13:34:42 aissen: Except the MeeGo API (largely) *is* the Qt API. Jun 21 13:34:49 TheBootroo: The concept is promising Jun 21 13:35:03 lcuk: If I can add value. Jun 21 13:35:29 aissen: And applications can only be MeeGo-compliant if they're written to the MeeGo API (not whatever packages are shipped with MeeGo) Jun 21 13:35:30 Jaffa: not exactly true, I see gtk is installed by default. Jun 21 13:35:33 well openly discussing many pieces has influenced many things we know that value Jun 21 13:35:52 aissen: Gtk+ is not part of the MeeGo API Jun 21 13:35:53 * lcuk sees his influences in n9 Jun 21 13:36:30 aissen: A MeeGo-compliant application should be trivially repackagable at build time to target Harmattan. Jun 21 13:36:39 Jaffa: but you just said whatever is packaged ? Jun 21 13:36:55 aissen: The MeeGo API is *not* defined by the packages shipped. It's a subset of those. Jun 21 13:37:06 aissen: Some are "platform" Jun 21 13:37:11 lcuk: handwriting everywhere? ;) Jun 21 13:37:22 Jaffa: can you point to any document regarding the MeeGo API (I'm interested in the general policy) and languages ? Jun 21 13:37:24 javispedro, graffiti wall app view actually Jun 21 13:37:32 handtyping will come later :) Jun 21 13:37:34 btw Jun 21 13:37:43 lcuk: noteslate guys said june 29 release date Jun 21 13:37:51 aissen: http://wiki.meego.com/images/MeeGo-Compliance-Spec-1.0.99.5.pdf Jun 21 13:37:58 cool Jun 21 13:38:07 Jaffa: from my point of view, for nokia, meego is only the QT Api so app can run on symbian, meego, maemo, windows? but this is just the framework, not a distribution ... Jun 21 13:38:09 Jaffa: thanks, already found that document, never took the time to read it. Jun 21 13:38:15 aissen: See section 3.4 Jun 21 13:38:16 javispedro, we should get meego running on it Jun 21 13:38:33 tagging on 10" device is awesome Jun 21 13:38:37 * fiferboy is impressed with the QUANTITY of Harmattan documentation Jun 21 13:38:43 Now I have to take a look at the quality Jun 21 13:38:49 fiferboy: The icon guidelines are pretty specific :-) Jun 21 13:38:53 lcuk: wait until they show off hardware ;) Jun 21 13:38:58 fiferboy, :-) Jun 21 13:39:11 javispedro, yeah Jun 21 13:39:30 with luck it might fill in the void left empty by the n9 being capacitive Jun 21 13:39:38 Jaffa, how are apps going to follow multiple ux guidelines Jun 21 13:39:45 I see photo app in harmattan Jun 21 13:39:53 and people try swiping through photos Jun 21 13:39:57 how are qml apps going to follow ux guidelines at all ;) Jun 21 13:40:00 and end up swiping through system Jun 21 13:40:26 javispedro, just wait until qml goes beyond the rectangle Jun 21 13:40:27 javispedro, that's left as an exercise Jun 21 13:40:32 ...and what about resolving the MeeGo UX Components & Qt Quick Components mess Jun 21 13:40:36 or you just use ... LMT :-D Jun 21 13:40:45 lol Jun 21 13:40:46 javispedro: Harmattan Components? :) Jun 21 13:40:56 We need more components! Jun 21 13:40:58 Jaffa, well, which components do you prefer now, after this announcement? Jun 21 13:41:05 dunno, I used to believe the plan was to just call it a day and make no guidelines at all =) Jun 21 13:41:27 mikhas: I've not looked at the API in depth for either. But as fiferboy says, the Harmattan ones have good docs Jun 21 13:41:36 Jaffa, some of the apps you could see in the videos were in fact using QML Jun 21 13:41:44 I'm a little miffed at potentially having to write FOUR interfaces to my programs Jun 21 13:41:55 bbl family Jun 21 13:42:12 fiferboy, you should have thought about that before welcoming your new QML overlords Jun 21 13:42:13 fiferboy, dont forget that qt works on windows too Jun 21 13:42:14 fiferboy: I can imagine a common API between MeeGo & Qt Components emerging pretty quickly, if the devs don't do it themselves Jun 21 13:42:33 Jaffa, please do it. Jun 21 13:42:34 Jaffa, api involving sed Jun 21 13:42:42 to rename the qml elements ;) Jun 21 13:42:46 lcuk: I used to have one interface for Linux Desktop, N900, N810 and Windows Jun 21 13:42:47 "Qt Community Components" Jun 21 13:42:52 lcuk: Or even just the "import" Jun 21 13:43:03 fiferboy, I have same apps running on n8x0 n900 ideapad Jun 21 13:43:15 Jaffa: se Jun 21 13:43:19 for me its the original MeegoTouchFramework, based on QGraphicsView + SVG + CSS, instead of QML that i horror Jun 21 13:43:21 my 810 is a calendar ;) Jun 21 13:43:21 mikhas: I'll probably do something for Hermes if no-one else has by then Jun 21 13:43:23 lcuk: Yes, the IdeaPad works fine with a generic interface too Jun 21 13:43:30 lcuk, your UI's dont follow any of the platforms' UX though ;-) Jun 21 13:43:31 Jaffa: (sorry) section 3.1.3 seems clear about RPM Jun 21 13:43:45 mikhas, will do soon, I have qt prototypes :) Jun 21 13:43:51 aissen: Yes - I was refering to the bit about APIs. Jun 21 13:44:12 aissen: And stated that a source tarball could target both through the Community OBS Jun 21 13:45:10 mikhas, grainy but including nokia pure on qt simulator http://liqbase.net/20110410_001.jpg Jun 21 13:45:25 Jaffa: seems like not anyone can use the community OBS Jun 21 13:45:33 aissen: ? Jun 21 13:45:49 aissen: You ask for an account from X-Fade or lbt_away Jun 21 13:45:54 aissen: You promise not to be evil. Jun 21 13:45:57 aissen: You get account. Jun 21 13:46:01 aissen: You upload software. Jun 21 13:46:01 It looks like they are going to be pushing the developer program for the N950 through very quickly Jun 21 13:46:03 aissen, with a nice simple front end cobs can be as easy as maemo extras upload Jun 21 13:46:05 Which is good Jun 21 13:46:43 Jaffa: I know, but I fail to see that scaling to thousands of devs. Jun 21 13:47:09 aissen: Obviously the application process can be streamlined and scaled (and changed) over time Jun 21 13:47:36 Indeed. We clone X-fade and lbt_away. Jun 21 13:47:43 BTW, I keep criticizing, but I think 1/ MeeGo is the way forward 2/ N9 is a good phone whatever distro it's based on 3/ Community OBS seems like a nice service. Jun 21 13:48:05 aissen: i totally agree your statement above Jun 21 13:49:02 fiferboy, what makes you say that? Jun 21 13:49:31 Termana: The fact you've only got a week to apply? Jun 21 13:49:32 to be ideal phone, N9 lacks USB host, HDMI, SD card, keyboard, bluetooth 4, LTE, and Stantum Multitouch Resistive Screen, but it's neverless the best phone out there Jun 21 13:49:44 Termana: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3597 Jun 21 13:49:58 fiferboy: already done for me Jun 21 13:50:08 waiting and hoping a N950 Jun 21 13:50:08 Deadline of June 28, but they may send out devices for "clear cases" before the deadline Jun 21 13:50:49 I think they are taking the right approach by having the program open immediately after the announcement Jun 21 13:50:50 Does anybody know a spectacle/yaml syntax for preventing a stripping of binary? Jun 21 13:50:52 Oooh! Clear cases! Transparent is cool! Jun 21 13:50:59 Although, I don't think there is really an alternative :) Jun 21 13:51:44 Does anyone know anything about the developer program selection process? Jun 21 13:53:14 hi :) Jun 21 13:54:19 Aranel, the main problem of n900 is memory ... you will see a great diff with more memory Jun 21 13:54:28 ouch the lag Jun 21 13:54:29 :) Jun 21 13:54:49 I'm running the lastes Nokia SDK and I've installed the Harmattan target using the Updater. Now I've created a new Harmattan project (a simple Hello World). When I want to run it, it asks me for a device... of course I don't have and I'd like to use the Similator/Emulator or whatever... how do I configure it? Jun 21 13:55:03 fiferboy, cat /dev/random Jun 21 13:55:03 ? Jun 21 13:55:23 fiferboy, probably people having already post meego apps Jun 21 13:55:46 :) A9 would be awesome anyway, maybe in a future device they'll use it instead. Jun 21 13:55:46 Andy80, change target Jun 21 13:57:08 khertan: Yeah, probably right. They have a whole spot for previous Maemo/MeeGo/open source apps Jun 21 13:58:46 khertan: I've "MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan API" and "Harmattan Platform API". Both give me that error. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. Where do I change it? Jun 21 14:01:11 Andy80, don't know i ve qemu not launch error Jun 21 14:01:22 so ... probably not the best person to help you :) Jun 21 14:01:56 khertan: oh I found it, nope :) Jun 21 14:02:20 I can't wait until I have to make a "Squircle" for my application icon Jun 21 14:03:11 khertan: I forgot to setup it inside Options :P Jun 21 14:03:28 fiferboy: hahah, gotta love them squircles Jun 21 14:04:03 * fiferboy tries to find out to make a squircle Jun 21 14:04:34 Huh, turns out it is not nearly as made up as it sounds :) Jun 21 14:04:44 one way is to get a squircle mask file (like a PNG with transparencies set) then run it through with imagemagick Jun 21 14:05:12 is meego on the N900 (eMMC) install really slow, or did I do something wrong? Jun 21 14:07:01 hiemanshu: I have heard that it is very slow, but I have never tried it Jun 21 14:07:27 fiferboy: ah ok Jun 21 14:08:28 it runs :) Jun 21 14:08:52 sure, but its almost close to unusable Jun 21 14:20:18 hiemanshu, if no 3G network and frequent loss of wifi isn't a problem Jun 21 14:20:19 :) Jun 21 14:20:36 it s near to be useable Jun 21 14:20:56 but it slow as shit, took over a minute to open the settings/camera app Jun 21 14:21:57 hiemanshu: there's actually a note here: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900#FAQ Jun 21 14:22:07 looks like the bug isn't fixed yet Jun 21 14:44:24 who is like me thinking that seeing the sucess of the N9, nokia will put out "N9-02" at beginnin of 2012, with meego 1.3 basis, brand new snapdragon quad core 2.5 ghz which as been announced last week, to kill definitely the upcoming iphone5 which will have a poor (in comparison) dual core.... Jun 21 14:46:20 I think predicting Nokia moves 6 months ahead is risky :) Jun 21 14:46:39 pfft, snapdragon is lame :P Jun 21 14:46:49 berndhs: as it is with any of the other companies anyway :D Jun 21 14:47:08 I'd rather stay with the fairly FOSS friendly TI Jun 21 14:47:21 julienf: how have you found this N9 news? :) Jun 21 14:47:49 alterego: I have known about the product for a while and I like it. Disappointed in Ahtisaari's performance. Jun 21 14:47:52 in 6 months elop will be out Jun 21 14:48:08 julienf: you mean his keynote speacg? Jun 21 14:48:09 i dont know snapdragon, what's it like ? Jun 21 14:48:11 ~speach? Jun 21 14:48:13 julienf: i actually thought marko did it well, compared to the rest Jun 21 14:48:29 TheBootroo: possible, as right now, most of the strategy is what is left from last team... Jun 21 14:48:36 I thought it was okay, wasn't too bad :) Jun 21 14:48:46 Stskeeps: he did an A-OK presentation, but he is no Steve Jobs :D Jun 21 14:49:04 Meh, Steve Jobs is overrated :P Jun 21 14:49:09 julienf: i thought the experience would be better if he was wearing a bathrobe and had a glass of whiskey in his hand Jun 21 14:49:19 And I think iPhones and iPads are starting to just look like toys now. Jun 21 14:49:32 Stskeeps: everything looks better like that! Jun 21 14:49:46 well, they are toys, the whole industry is selling entertainment Jun 21 14:50:09 I see mine as more a tool .. Though my gf would disagree :) Jun 21 14:50:24 gtg Jun 21 14:50:27 bye Jun 21 14:50:43 sure they can be used as tools, but that's not where the mass market is Jun 21 14:51:23 o/ dawn Jun 21 14:51:42 hey alterego Jun 21 14:52:14 Apparently we have a MeeGo smartphone now Jun 21 14:52:16 *cough* Jun 21 14:52:34 she was up, i seem to recall Jun 21 14:52:34 :P Jun 21 14:52:39 Heh Jun 21 14:52:45 Yes, good point :D Jun 21 14:52:51 Hurp, dialer meeting in 10 minutes. Jun 21 14:53:48 I have to say that although Nokia did not invent the swype thing (RIM did with the plybook), they managed to make something different Jun 21 14:54:17 julienf: It seems likely it's independently developed rather than copied. So they both "invented" it but RIM was first to market. Jun 21 14:54:31 I imagine, knowing Nokias R&D life cycles, they probably did invent it ;) Jun 21 14:54:53 Or they both stole it from my Columbus app Jun 21 14:55:00 swype is the keyboard thing Jun 21 14:55:03 *grumbles* I want my royalties! Jun 21 14:55:13 the swipe UI is Nokia one Jun 21 14:55:45 alterego: with the pace they changed the UI in the last iterations, I have to say that I doubt it :D Jun 21 14:55:52 Heh Jun 21 14:56:28 right, only one person ever thought of a straight line :) Jun 21 14:56:40 clearly the swipe landed after the last set of leaks Jun 21 14:57:05 all device shots you see that aren't from the past 24 hours still have the same Handset UX that we have as open source Jun 21 14:57:59 not exactly Jun 21 14:58:16 The N9 "teaser" leak of the N950 is clearly older Jun 21 14:58:32 that was the only leak after the new UI Jun 21 14:58:41 but you could barely see the swipe Jun 21 14:58:48 Judging by the past 13 hours, I'd say that leak may date back to last year. Jun 21 14:59:18 The swipe is clearly visible, as is the task switcher and the feed. Jun 21 15:03:44 I wonder if it would be possible to write a plugin to give a fourth view (app view, task view, event view) to make a simple widget view... Jun 21 15:04:34 from tweets: "RT @rosgani: Hardware is not the N9's problem - it's the software. The phone runs MeeGo which is obsolete, even before the N9 goes on sale. #NokiaN9" Jun 21 15:05:27 i could have sworn eldar murtazin wrote that one :) Jun 21 15:05:44 remember how people were saying the N900 was obsolete the moment it shipped ,because meego was coming? :) Jun 21 15:06:26 * Jucato remembers it as N900 was obsolete because Harmattan (not yet MeeGo-based) would be a Qt-based rewrite Jun 21 15:06:43 and that was also before Fremantle was released Jun 21 15:07:28 fiferboy: as I un derstand it the event view acts as the widget view Jun 21 15:07:36 fiferboy: it even has a rss reader Jun 21 15:07:39 yeah that was first, and when harmattan was rebranded as meego the story changed to the newer variant Jun 21 15:08:04 fiferboy: I think an app which provides a widget framework and refuses to close may be a good "dashboard" approach. Then you can have as many widget screens as you want Jun 21 15:08:43 javispedro: There's a C++ & DBus API for adding events, I'm told Jun 21 15:08:49 * Jaffa has an idea for a commuting app Jun 21 15:09:35 I do like the idea Jun 21 15:09:54 but I guess that's because my single used home screen on n900 has : calendar, mail, and rss widgets =) Jun 21 15:10:10 (a few launcher buttons though) Jun 21 15:10:30 just keep those apps running Jun 21 15:10:38 Jaffa, adding other panels would be fun Jun 21 15:10:46 the app view is basically graffitiwall Jun 21 15:10:53 then you have "fast access" in the thumbnail preview in the task switcher Jun 21 15:11:08 thiago_home: That's what Nokians said with the N900 Jun 21 15:11:21 thiago_home: And then we wanted to make sure the battery lasted until we knew we needed it ;-) Jun 21 15:11:34 I tested battery usage Jun 21 15:11:34 not to mention Jun 21 15:11:41 there's that nice "close all" button in the task switcher Jun 21 15:11:43 apps running don't consume too much battery. It's the syncing services that do. Jun 21 15:11:46 so big, so pretty, so irresistible... Jun 21 15:11:50 So is the N9 UX all based on QML ? Jun 21 15:11:52 and those will be running regardless of your mail client being open. Jun 21 15:12:36 slaine: I'm not supposed to divulge technical details until the device ships, but then again some people will get N950s next week... Jun 21 15:12:48 lucky :) Jun 21 15:12:56 javispedro, Jaffa: Both those approaches seem good Jun 21 15:13:04 so no, it's MTF Jun 21 15:13:08 some apps are QML though Jun 21 15:13:10 toninikkanen: Who is Eldar Murtazin? Becouse is today tweet about Meego is epic... and posted by google.com/finance as notice for today's NOK stocks Jun 21 15:13:13 Being able to add, say, countdowns to the event view makes sense Jun 21 15:13:20 thiago_home: thanks Jun 21 15:13:35 toninikkanen: an idiot.. that stuff isn't even top secret, it was in presentation materials at feb11 Jun 21 15:13:42 yep! Jun 21 15:13:49 inean: mr. Murtazin is a guy who totally hates Nokia and goes out of his way to make it known the world over Jun 21 15:13:54 anyone knows about front-face camera on the N9 ? Jun 21 15:13:57 i'm fairly sure the guy is involved in stock manipulation Jun 21 15:15:20 the_lord: it's there. What else do you need to know? Jun 21 15:16:21 NOk stocks 3,68% up. It reaches 10% Elop will resigned from his job? :) Jun 21 15:16:24 I hope that skype video calling actually works more than 1 out of 10 calls this next pass. Jun 21 15:16:25 * mikeleib wants at least to play with the N9 Jun 21 15:16:51 that last PR update for the n900 basically killed it. Jun 21 15:17:13 thiago_home: only that :) Jun 21 15:17:23 (not really nokia's fault, Skype's code is beyond shit, but hey...) Jun 21 15:17:29 mikeleib: talk to james. He played with it :-) Jun 21 15:18:17 james played with it like you look at a lion in the zoo. I want it more like a toy. If I don't like it, I'll get rid of it. If I like it, I'll play with it Jun 21 15:20:09 Nokia guys: nice work on the N9. Looks very good. Jun 21 15:22:59 I think my favorite press is when they say, "This is awesome... why the hell did they switch to WP7??" Jun 21 15:23:04 * mikeleib talks to thiago_home.. he played with one Jun 21 15:24:05 gabrbedd: I think we all like that news ;) Jun 21 15:24:53 gabrbedd I would fav that Jun 21 15:24:54 :D Jun 21 15:24:58 the WP7 thing was just to motivate the developers ? Jun 21 15:25:31 haha Jun 21 15:25:51 and the W8 is to demotivate them? :) Jun 21 15:26:36 let me see.... Nokia will drop WP in a few months, pay back all the $$ ? Jun 21 15:29:15 mikeleib: I like it and I'll buy the N9 when it comes out Jun 21 15:29:23 I'm trying to find out how to get an N950 now Jun 21 15:29:27 my wife wants one, as well Jun 21 15:29:38 let me know how to get one of those N950's Jun 21 15:29:52 mikeleib: try your luck with https://meego.com/community/device-program Jun 21 15:29:54 Stskeeps, an N9? Jun 21 15:30:01 * mikeleib is unsure if I can do that Jun 21 15:30:02 mikeleib: sign up for the community device program. yup, thanks Stskeeps, was about to post that. Jun 21 15:30:18 Stskeeps, your wife wants it in black right? Jun 21 15:30:18 wtf does an n950 look like? Jun 21 15:30:19 ;) Jun 21 15:30:21 * andyross is quite sure mikeleib cannot do that. Jun 21 15:30:32 TSCHAKeee: I wonder why it wasn't announced Jun 21 15:30:38 people will get it next week or so Jun 21 15:30:53 thiago_home: It was mentioned, nothing to announce :) Jun 21 15:30:55 i doubt it's too easy to get n950's anymore Jun 21 15:30:57 http://mobilitydigest.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/typetop.jpg Jun 21 15:31:00 thiago_home: i signed up for one, i hope i get it. :( Jun 21 15:31:03 apparently there's only 250 of them made Jun 21 15:31:04 N950 ^ Jun 21 15:31:07 most prolly already gone Jun 21 15:31:09 hena: there are more Jun 21 15:31:14 there is? Jun 21 15:31:15 but 250 reserved for the MeeGo community Jun 21 15:31:15 ok Jun 21 15:31:17 hena: there are plenty more. Jun 21 15:31:22 oh, ok, cool Jun 21 15:31:36 wth? Jun 21 15:31:39 freaky Jun 21 15:31:49 so it will hit the sales? Jun 21 15:31:57 TSCHAKeee, http://mobilitydigest.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/typetop.jpg Jun 21 15:31:57 no, the n950 will not be sold Jun 21 15:32:06 yup i just saw Jun 21 15:32:11 funky Jun 21 15:32:16 an iphone4 with a keyboard Jun 21 15:32:17 a shame Jun 21 15:32:24 TSCHAKeee, damn it Jun 21 15:32:27 hehehe Jun 21 15:32:28 damn alterego Jun 21 15:32:31 TSCHAKeee, http://www.worldofnokia.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/jpeg-588x441.jpg Jun 21 15:32:32 this one Jun 21 15:32:47 Making me copy bad links to my clipboard :( Jun 21 15:33:24 it's a nice device, but without the keyboard it's just another dumbenduserdevice Jun 21 15:33:44 ahh so that's the unit that got leaked all over the place Jun 21 15:33:58 Sorry, didn't mean to post that Jun 21 15:34:09 alterego, :p Jun 21 15:34:14 I presumed my last post would still be in the buffer :D Jun 21 15:34:46 I think this is what we'll be getting: http://www.nokiablog.ch/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/326932798.jpg Jun 21 15:34:53 That's the one I meant :D Jun 21 15:36:13 i guess that's the one we might have if we didn't have the nda Jun 21 15:36:41 hena: hrm? :P Jun 21 15:50:24 alterego: I hope that's the one we get :-) Jun 21 15:50:41 we? there's not enough for anyone! Jun 21 15:50:52 fortunately, yesterday I watched battle royale. Jun 21 15:51:00 so.. Jun 21 15:51:04 javispedro: I'll use my secret cabal powers on you Jun 21 15:51:15 Less effective on meego.com, admittedly Jun 21 15:52:38 this reminds me that it's time for that "what to do with maemo.org" council decision ;P Jun 21 15:52:55 it's like reverse duke nukem forever Jun 21 15:53:00 you cannot kill it off Jun 21 15:53:35 I still use it, I;m an N800 user Jun 21 15:56:10 * javispedro curses at the libpng12.so.0 hidden qt sdk requeriment Jun 21 15:58:27 hello. does anyone know what component is correct one to file a bug for libpurple (pidgin library) in bugs.meego.com? Jun 21 16:03:35 hello Jun 21 16:03:39 alterego that's the n950... but you can't buy it afaik Jun 21 16:04:23 Anyone knows how to get the netbook image going on xen to test (currenly has issues with videocard drivers) Jun 21 16:04:39 Hello everyone. Jun 21 16:04:51 pebcak: we were talking about the N950 :P Jun 21 16:04:56 We're developers Jun 21 16:05:35 it turns out I have an n950 Jun 21 16:05:41 I have a question: In light of the N9 announcement, can Nokia's Meego/Qt stack be saved? Jun 21 16:06:12 anab1s: saved? What's wrong with Qt? Jun 21 16:06:15 Damion: Congratulations? Jun 21 16:06:21 alterego I won't get one :| Jun 21 16:06:33 Damion: How long have you been playing with it? Jun 21 16:06:37 Damion: you have one? Are you Nokia? :P Jun 21 16:06:56 no Jun 21 16:06:59 SpeedEvil: about 5mins Jun 21 16:07:16 I've applied for one properly, this is just one a colleague has Jun 21 16:07:22 Did you check the guy was breathing? Jun 21 16:07:32 alterego: Nothing, from what I see. When I say saved, I mean: can we (read: consumers & developers) convince Nokia to persist with the stack? Jun 21 16:07:40 the company I work for partners with Nokia for some things Jun 21 16:07:47 I wish I'd asked weeks ago! Jun 21 16:07:52 she just had it in a draw Jun 21 16:08:03 anab1s: I don't think they're getting rid of it just yet .. Jun 21 16:08:17 I'm about the only person here who gasped at it, she found that very funny. Everyone is an Android/iPhone fan here and thinks I'm mad Jun 21 16:08:17 Damion: hah :P Jun 21 16:08:33 it#s all very slick but I want a terminal Jun 21 16:09:01 I'm attempting to get one fedex'd to me for a meego meetup in the uk Jun 21 16:09:08 Which is on Thursday. Jun 21 16:09:10 Sigh. Jun 21 16:09:15 * alterego shakes magic 8ball Jun 21 16:09:21 "outlook slim" Jun 21 16:09:24 Oh well. Jun 21 16:09:32 :D Jun 21 16:09:35 I've enabled alternate sources for install stuff so I guess I could point the browser to a .deb with some preinst that writes details about the OS to the vfat drive Jun 21 16:09:37 alterego: "yet" is what I'm afraid of. The Nokia N9 looks excellent, all I want is for it to be commercially successful. Jun 21 16:09:56 anab1s: buy one then ;) Jun 21 16:10:09 Or buy a few thousand ;) Jun 21 16:10:47 you can buy me one too :) Jun 21 16:11:38 Hmm, I've seen a URL to a picture of the time picker. Anyone got it to hand? Jun 21 16:11:50 alterego: I'm only one person ;) I'd like there to be a campaign to pressurise Nokia into giving the platform more prominence, people are saying that the N9 is the last hoorah for Nokia Meego Jun 21 16:12:14 Ah, found it. Jun 21 16:12:30 anab1s: more like the first Jun 21 16:12:48 anab1s: there's no knowing how they will position the N9 yet, just wait and be patient. Jun 21 16:13:23 andre__, ping Jun 21 16:13:46 We (being evangelists of the platform) obviously want it to be a success, but it's up to normal day-to-day users to make it succesfull. Jun 21 16:14:16 does anyone know how to run arbitrary stuff or install a terminal on to the n950 ? Jun 21 16:14:26 alterego: I know, but I'm worried. What I'm worried is the line that the tech blogs have been pedalling: "Nice phone, dead platform". I'm worried that this may prevent developers & consumers from giving the platform a chance. Jun 21 16:14:44 Damion: apt-get? :) Jun 21 16:14:47 Damion: well. it's a developer device so shouldn't be a problem Jun 21 16:15:10 anab1s: can't say I've heard any headlines like that. Jun 21 16:15:15 Damion: and there's a terminal in gitorious if it doesn't one by default Jun 21 16:15:20 renato, pong Jun 21 16:15:22 timoph, alterego: don't completely bet on it Jun 21 16:15:44 alterego: timoph so I should be able to browse to a .deb, install and start up the terminal ? Jun 21 16:15:44 Termana: bet on what? Jun 21 16:15:52 Damion: Yes, according to qgil Jun 21 16:15:54 Quim has been mentioning that the N950 will need to be put in open mode on the MeeGo forums Jun 21 16:15:55 Damion: I'd hope so Jun 21 16:16:10 Termana: "need" Jun 21 16:16:11 andre__, I have create a section on meego wiki to put information about hamarmatan python development, why did you remove that? Jun 21 16:16:13 Damion: send it to me and I'll tell you :P Jun 21 16:16:16 Damion: no idea. I don't have one of those. hoping to get one though Jun 21 16:16:38 alterego: check out "the register", "engadget", "this is my next" Jun 21 16:16:52 Jaffa, I have no idea. I'm just extrapolating and regurgitating what he said Jun 21 16:16:57 s/hamarmatan/harmattan Jun 21 16:17:14 anab1s: I have, don't remember reading anything about "dead platform" in them Jun 21 16:17:42 Is there default vesa support ? Jun 21 16:17:47 * alterego reads again Jun 21 16:18:05 renato, because on the frontpage there should be project wide important overview stuff, not stuff that is based on one implementation (harmattan) of one stakeholder Jun 21 16:18:22 Jaffa: ta, I'll try that tomorrow. I don't think I can take this phone home Jun 21 16:18:25 renato: doesn't that belong in the harmattan sdk materials rather than meego.com though? Jun 21 16:18:30 renato, I wanted to add a comment when reverting but the wiki software didn't let me :-( Jun 21 16:18:44 renato, Harmattan stuff is simply nothing for the upstream MeeGo wiki frontpage. Jun 21 16:19:31 andre__: Past stakeholder? Jun 21 16:19:32 oh wow, I can take it home! Jun 21 16:19:36 :))))) Jun 21 16:19:46 Damion: :) Jun 21 16:19:48 What is the X-manager for meego 1.2 Xorg ? Jun 21 16:19:53 Damion: :) Jun 21 16:19:56 Qantourisc: window manager, you mea? Jun 21 16:19:58 SpeedEvil, I don't see past here (yet). still too many people working on it Jun 21 16:19:58 Damion: happy hacking? Jun 21 16:20:05 I mean: happy hacking! Jun 21 16:20:11 Stskeeps: no i meant X11/W/Y implementation Jun 21 16:20:15 Damion: Is it a device with a keyboard - some rumors are confusing Jun 21 16:20:20 Stskeeps, there is a specific place on meego wiki for harmattan? Jun 21 16:20:22 SpeedEvil: the n950 is yes Jun 21 16:20:26 alterego: http://thisismynext.com/2011/06/20/nokia-n9-officially-announced-unibody-design-buttonless-swipe-ui-lost-promise-meego/ "That’s some serious hardware for a dead-end OS, but it’s good to see Nokia can still produce a competitive device, and the company says the DNA of the N9" Jun 21 16:20:30 the released one the public will get is an n9 without Jun 21 16:21:07 I think we need a wiki that clears up this Harmattan stuff Jun 21 16:21:16 * Qantourisc is trying to test meego on Xen before considering bying an N9 :) Jun 21 16:21:26 Damion: Thanks - I know about the n9. Jun 21 16:21:33 slaine, "We don't want anything to do with it at MeeGo.com?" Jun 21 16:21:38 I'd be surprised to see the n9 by cheristmas. Jun 21 16:21:54 GeneralAntilles: something like that ;) Jun 21 16:21:55 the thing is that even if nokia isn't doing meego anymore, meego isn't dead Jun 21 16:22:06 in the note taking app it seems quite nice, the keyboard will take getting used to Jun 21 16:22:06 nokia PR isn't helping here today Jun 21 16:22:15 Ctrl wasn't sticky Jun 21 16:22:17 I'm more talking about the fact that Harmattan != MeeGo Jun 21 16:22:18 Fn was Jun 21 16:22:21 slaine, good, good. Only company shipping a device that could potentially make the platform relevant and we want everybody interested in it to go to another cave. Jun 21 16:22:33 alterego: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/21/nokia_singapore_meego_but_no_windows/ Jun 21 16:22:38 even though it's labeled as such Jun 21 16:23:01 hey guys Jun 21 16:23:02 renato: what does the MeeGo wiki have to do with a downstream implementation? I fail to see the relation Jun 21 16:23:04 the N9 looks pretty cool Jun 21 16:23:06 anab1s: just read the engadget article, no mention of "dead platform" Jun 21 16:23:19 slaine: Harmattan shows MeeGo can be used to produce a consumer-focused, user-friendly, mass-market OS. Even if its packaging format is not really MeeGo Jun 21 16:23:24 is nokia a buy here? Jun 21 16:23:26 maybe the stock is cheap Jun 21 16:23:38 t8: Go for it. Jun 21 16:23:51 Jaffa: s/meego/qt+linux technologies/g Jun 21 16:23:53 But everything about it that makes it the N9 is nothing to do with MeeGo Jun 21 16:23:53 anab1s: and theregister is pure satire and comedy .. Jun 21 16:24:04 but what happens if nokia isnt here in a year Jun 21 16:24:08 is that a silly thought? Jun 21 16:24:16 wall street thinks nokia and rimm are both dinoaurs Jun 21 16:24:19 Disclaimer: SpeedEvil is not responsible for an loss caused by his financial advice Jun 21 16:24:25 haha no kidding Jun 21 16:24:26 any* Jun 21 16:24:29 t8: is that somehow related to meego.com, a linux platform? Jun 21 16:24:29 It's Maemo6 right ? with synchronized higher level API's like Qt Quick Jun 21 16:24:40 slaine: yes Jun 21 16:24:51 Termana: AnFor any financial advice I give, I reserve the right if I'm wrong, to point and laugh. Jun 21 16:24:52 Stskeeps, t8 is asking about buying Nokia stock Jun 21 16:25:02 well im just wondering Jun 21 16:25:02 SpeedEvil, :p Jun 21 16:25:08 it seems like nokia is just a handset maker? Jun 21 16:25:10 t8: Nobody knows. Jun 21 16:25:10 im confused Jun 21 16:25:16 * alterego sighs Jun 21 16:25:22 * timoph thinks all this could be moved to #meego-bar Jun 21 16:25:23 wait Jun 21 16:25:24 meego and maemo Jun 21 16:25:29 i guess i have no idea Jun 21 16:25:33 haaha Jun 21 16:25:37 t8: that's an amazing amount, not the case Jun 21 16:25:39 Who tries to launch Xorg (continuesly ?) Jun 21 16:25:41 t8: If things go nokias way (speaking of back before febuary) they could have had a new third entrant into the marketplace. Jun 21 16:25:46 t8: with a new OS. Jun 21 16:25:47 t8, listen, don't they have financial brokers that advise you on stock affairs? Jun 21 16:25:48 Qantourisc: uxlaunch Jun 21 16:25:53 We are all a bunch of nerds Jun 21 16:25:59 We don't trade on the stock market Jun 21 16:26:01 t8: But they're stuck on windows 7 now, which ... Jun 21 16:26:05 Otherwise we wouldn't be here Jun 21 16:26:13 ok well Jun 21 16:26:17 N9 runs on meego, right? Jun 21 16:26:25 it looks like a hot phone Jun 21 16:26:26 anab1s: The Reg article is all wrong anyway. :P Jun 21 16:26:32 t8: N9 runs maemo. Jun 21 16:26:35 alterego: when have you known el reg to be accurate? Jun 21 16:26:38 Termana: wrong. there's exceptions. ;-) Jun 21 16:26:41 if they were we'd all be sticking OS oses on including android. As it happens they look after symbian and have taken meego and made a VERY slick fast booting system and UI on top Jun 21 16:26:48 lmao ok Jun 21 16:26:55 thiago_home: exactly, it's satirical comedy ;) Jun 21 16:27:01 ahaha Jun 21 16:27:02 alterego: what about the this is my next link? Jun 21 16:27:02 arjan, not according to the branding. :) Jun 21 16:27:02 this is funny Jun 21 16:27:11 Cannot open log file "/var/log/Xorg.0.log" <= small bug in the livecd :p Jun 21 16:27:13 GeneralAntilles: it's a meego-branded maemo6 Jun 21 16:27:15 arjan: +1 on your lwn comment btw Jun 21 16:27:27 the meego mocks I've seen look pitiful, like it's like a bunch of nerds designed the ui ;) Jun 21 16:27:27 anab1s: I remember that being quite positive. Jun 21 16:27:44 anab1s: and it's a lame duck site anyway :P Jun 21 16:28:07 anab1s: engadget did a shockingly positive review. Most people are saying "Nokia have to keep this". Jun 21 16:28:19 Personally, I think it would serve everybody better to leave emotional issues out of considerations of Nokia and their platforms. Especially considering how depressing a conference was just held. ;) Jun 21 16:28:27 So don't get too bogged down with the mad hat joker articles, there's always a parody :) Jun 21 16:28:57 GeneralAntilles: I would have creamed my pants if they'd unveiled the N9 in SF ;) Jun 21 16:29:15 GeneralAntilles: but arguing on interwebs is no fun anymore when you start acting rational! Jun 21 16:29:35 And if/when I get an N950, I'm going to lock myself in a cuboard with it and my laptop for a week maybe a month ;) Jun 21 16:29:42 ok and someone else is keeping uxlaunch alive ... Jun 21 16:29:48 Qantourisc: inittab, in 1.2 Jun 21 16:29:54 'meego-dm' Jun 21 16:30:00 it is quite a nice phone Jun 21 16:30:09 The real progress will occur when we get a proper MeeGo stack running on these devices. Jun 21 16:30:10 Stskeeps: i see, better just fix the X11 in meego use :p Jun 21 16:30:12 *user Jun 21 16:30:15 wish they made more Jun 21 16:30:20 alterego: is that like throwing a prisoner with a cockrel and a dog into the Tiber? Jun 21 16:30:26 in a bag of course Jun 21 16:30:37 slaine: If FLOSS apps are built on Harmattan, uploaded to COBS and come out in people's OBS home projects and with RPMs (& debs) on apps.meego.com; isn't that a MeeGo win? Jun 21 16:30:44 lardman: I don't know, but I imagine both scenarios are messy. Jun 21 16:30:49 lol Jun 21 16:30:51 indeed Jun 21 16:30:51 And my gf wont like either ;) Jun 21 16:30:53 alterego: .. way ahead of you. which is probably the only reason i don't mind it being in 'meego device program', it's really good meego.com-able system Jun 21 16:31:15 alterego: umm, it's undeniable that there's a perception that Harmattan/Meego is not a major part of Nokia's strategy going forward. Jun 21 16:31:17 slaine: And even if, as Stskeeps says, it proves that Linux+Qt can be used to build a consumer phone, having it branded as MeeGo gets MeeGo that free publicity. "Look what Nokia can do with MeeGo" Jun 21 16:31:19 Stskeeps: that may or may not have been how they got the MeeGo label ;) Jun 21 16:31:43 Jaffa: is qgil an irc user who just isn't online atm? Jun 21 16:31:50 .o/ Jun 21 16:31:51 Damion: Yes. Jun 21 16:32:02 Damion: Recently of the MeeGo Community Office Jun 21 16:32:08 alterego: i think i've concluded with myself that i don't want to know how that came through and really hope this doesn't have any damaging effects to meego.com Jun 21 16:32:09 Jaffa: I don't disagree with any of that Jun 21 16:32:28 Stskeeps: agreed, we need to spin it right ;) Jun 21 16:32:47 and so if I bing for "meego gitorious" and browse a bit I should be able to find something I can turn in to a http served .deb that I should be able to make the phone install ? Jun 21 16:32:53 Stskeeps: just say it is Nokias MeeGo and if anyone mentiones the oddities we'll have them, erm, disposed of ;) Jun 21 16:32:56 I'm psyched about the device, it's fantastic looking phone. The N950 looks like an excellent replacement for the N900 and all in all it's very positive. Jun 21 16:33:05 slaine: +1 Jun 21 16:33:06 Jaffa: however maemo apps don't run on meego proper. oh well. Jun 21 16:33:10 Let's all get pissed tonight. Jun 21 16:33:21 but i also (where we started) think that we shouldn't increase the confusion by dumping harmattan stuff into meego.com collaborative spaces Jun 21 16:33:46 arjan: Well, if politics was put aside and the MeeGo UX/Qt Quick Components issue was solved (although you can be sure devs are going to start abstracting between them themselves pretty damn quickly) Jun 21 16:33:49 Stskeeps: you mean like pyside harmattan articles? Jun 21 16:33:59 I wonder if I can chroot or LD_LIBRARY_PATH kludge enough of microb from maemo to get the flash plugin to run. Jun 21 16:34:06 Problem is, if we keep that stuff on maemo.org we may cause even more confusion. Jun 21 16:34:09 alterego: for example - i mean, you can't do those things with anything delivered from meego.com Jun 21 16:34:15 because as it stands, no YT is a major limitation. Jun 21 16:34:19 Indeed Jun 21 16:34:32 alterego, it wont be on maemo.org, either. Jun 21 16:34:33 even with our CE work, we tell people to use the meego.com sdk as that's the thing that people should develop with Jun 21 16:34:37 We need to contain Harmattan to developer.nokia.com/swipe imo Jun 21 16:34:39 There is no home for Harmattan. Jun 21 16:34:51 alterego: +1 Jun 21 16:34:52 new site Jun 21 16:34:58 GeneralAntilles: developer.nokia.com/swipe :P Jun 21 16:35:13 There's not place like 127.0.0.1 Jun 21 16:35:14 no* Jun 21 16:35:22 Heh Jun 21 16:35:32 Harmattan apps are more MeeGo than Maemo. And let's face it, MeeGo is a platform without apps. Jun 21 16:35:35 Right, time for a very late lunch Jun 21 16:35:36 alterego: There's the developer.nokia.com wiki Jun 21 16:35:43 Also known as commuting home for dinner Jun 21 16:35:43 assuming each implementation of a Meego device will use some different UI, it's hard to know how to combine everything on one site Jun 21 16:35:52 laters Jun 21 16:35:58 Jaffa: that's what I'm saying, we need to contain Harmattan to nokia.com Jun 21 16:36:01 arjan: switching topic a bit, has there been any talks about how to have wayland and xorg coexist in meego trunk? i'm thinking if we can effectively remove x11 deps from meego core, while still being able to have both running? Jun 21 16:36:12 So it doesn't interfere with what we're doing with CE and MeeGo.com Jun 21 16:36:17 We can be very strict and have no apps this time next year. Or we try to take advantage of the buzz. Jun 21 16:36:29 X-Fade: +1 Jun 21 16:36:29 X-Fade: +1 Jun 21 16:36:36 "ok FIXED" :) Jun 21 16:36:38 sortof :) Jun 21 16:36:44 several WEIRD bugs on the livecd ! Jun 21 16:36:50 I agree with that. Jun 21 16:37:02 But will there be a Harmattan sub forum? Jun 21 16:37:06 had to chmod 4755 /usr/bin/Xorg and make sure /var/log is vritable Jun 21 16:37:07 on fmc? Jun 21 16:37:11 now i can test Jun 21 16:37:25 alterego, doesn't that really go under "Devices" Jun 21 16:37:27 Qantourisc: what on earth did you do to make xorg permissions mess up? :P Jun 21 16:37:40 Termana: no, N9/50 are devices :P Jun 21 16:37:41 Stskeeps: i did nothing, i just booted the livecd period Jun 21 16:37:45 Harmattan is platform Jun 21 16:37:47 err... nevermind Jun 21 16:37:53 there is no devices forum anyway Jun 21 16:37:54 :p Jun 21 16:37:55 alterego: Following through mine & X-Fade's point to the logical conclusion, some stuff on meego.com about "want to target MeeGo "proper" with your app? here's how" seems sensible Jun 21 16:38:03 alterego: So there's support & wiki docs on *that* Jun 21 16:38:07 sub-forum rather Jun 21 16:38:22 Jaffa: yes, I'm not talking about cutting it out completely. Jun 21 16:38:25 My suggestion is to treat Harmattan as an additional UX. Jun 21 16:38:25 alterego: Around making sure the right meta-data is there for COBS to produce RPM & deb; best practices for dealing with QML Components Jun 21 16:38:56 i will give 100 eur to the person who shows, that within a week, it's possible for harmattan to accept meego compliant packages Jun 21 16:38:56 m'kay Jun 21 16:39:00 in rpm format Jun 21 16:39:02 without difficulty Jun 21 16:39:28 (armv7hl) Jun 21 16:39:29 Does Harmattan have rpm unpackaging capabilities? Jun 21 16:39:36 Stskeeps, alien? Jun 21 16:39:42 Stskeeps: sub-contracting? ;) Jun 21 16:39:44 Stskeeps: you know about this stuff :P Jun 21 16:40:03 * alterego downloads sdk and starts porting columbus :P Jun 21 16:40:19 alterego: i generally want to show that the effort was so significantly small that it really should be done Jun 21 16:40:26 * lardman has off-line SDK downloaded, time to go back to my internet-less new house Jun 21 16:40:32 catch you chaps tomorrow Jun 21 16:40:37 Stskeeps: okay Jun 21 16:40:48 Talking about euro Jun 21 16:40:56 I found 1 euro cent in my bedroom the other day Jun 21 16:40:58 so we ideally can forget about anything but a 'meego' target in any qt sdk/meego sdk Jun 21 16:41:03 Which is strange, because I'm in Australia Jun 21 16:41:13 and I don't remember ever having any euro Jun 21 16:41:41 Termana: sorry, must have fallen out of my wallet when I came to visit your lady Jun 21 16:41:44 ooooooo! Jun 21 16:42:15 alterego, oh snap... I don't know how to tell you this... but I'm a cross dresser Jun 21 16:42:18 :p Jun 21 16:42:25 Hahah Jun 21 16:42:29 and this conversation just took a sharp left into crazyland Jun 21 16:42:43 ;) Jun 21 16:43:06 Stskeeps: on wayland; current plan is to do Wayland for tablet in 1.3, and for everything in 1.4 Jun 21 16:43:14 in 1.4 we would not have X as master for anything Jun 21 16:43:27 (there'll be some compatibility X thing inside wayland for legacy apps probably) Jun 21 16:43:53 arjan: is that even realistic ? What about input architecture ? will that be a done deal ? Jun 21 16:44:10 arjan: alright, so in 1.3 meego core packages will contain xorg deps as well, ok Jun 21 16:44:14 s/xorg/x11/ Jun 21 16:44:14 Stskeeps meant: arjan: alright, so in 1.3 meego core packages will contain x11 deps as well, ok Jun 21 16:44:35 I also question the choice of btrfs — while upgrading meego I had a nice btrfs oops, and then my root was broken and there was nothing else to do. Jun 21 16:45:07 aissen: input architecture is usually a lot simpler on meego type devices, you usually know what you have to deal with Jun 21 16:45:14 i mean, kernel input devices.. Jun 21 16:45:42 aissen: you just need the wayland server to multiplex or broker access to the kernel evdev devices Jun 21 16:46:26 you don't want to do it like the RX71_MULTITOUCH implementation in Qt that we used in MeeGo 1.1, which made every application open the input device and thus be woken up whenever you touched the touchscreen Jun 21 16:47:02 eek Jun 21 16:47:14 heh, yeah, that was fun Jun 21 16:48:20 I don't know the details, but I'm sure there's a solution for input on wayland Jun 21 16:48:36 I'm more concerned about more esoteric things like "clipboard" or "drag and drop" Jun 21 16:48:51 Isn't that part of Qt? Jun 21 16:49:09 Qt has the API, of course Jun 21 16:49:10 Oh, I suppose that piggy backs off of the platform Jun 21 16:49:14 right Jun 21 16:49:39 you still need a way to signal applications somehow Jun 21 16:50:25 anyway, wayland+lighthouse+scenegraph are running fine. We just need to stabilise and release by 1.3. Jun 21 16:50:41 and fix the performance and memory issues Jun 21 16:51:35 aissen: this is why we do only one first Jun 21 16:51:40 to go all the way and solve all issues for it Jun 21 16:51:44 before expanding to other verticals. Jun 21 16:52:07 restricted use-cases Jun 21 16:52:34 Great, and you choose the least interesting market :P Jun 21 16:52:42 question: does meego use GPU acceleration by any vhange Jun 21 16:52:43 tablet? Jun 21 16:52:46 arjan: ^ Jun 21 16:52:49 Qantourisc: yes Jun 21 16:52:50 thiago_home: indeed. Jun 21 16:52:52 hi is it allowded to speak about n950 here ? Jun 21 16:52:57 Qantourisc: OpenGL ES required Jun 21 16:53:11 thiago_home: ok that explains why it's so blooody slow on a vesa+mesa adapter :) Jun 21 16:53:37 heh Jun 21 16:53:56 thiago_home, arjan : indeed, input might be much simpler on tablet with only full screen apps. It might be another problem on netbook when you start playing with grabs and other features. Jun 21 16:54:39 Netbook is dead. Jun 21 16:55:23 aissen: the only thing you need a grab for is for menus (netbook/desktop style) and even then I wouldn't sorely miss it Jun 21 16:55:34 if you have a debug-mode Qt, try running your app with -nograb to see if you feel a difference Jun 21 16:55:35 alterego: netbook is dead ? how ? Jun 21 16:56:07 Qantourisc: it's not going anywhere is it? No one is developing it further. Jun 21 16:56:15 It's dead in meego.com eyes. Jun 21 16:56:23 thiago_home: will try. Jun 21 16:56:35 alterego: i see, wel i'm using netbook to get an idea of meego ... Jun 21 16:57:00 the interface for the netbook meego seems clunky and clumsy Jun 21 16:57:08 the tabs didn't work well Jun 21 16:57:20 alterego: i actually see it working :p Jun 21 16:57:30 and a mobile OS for small devices and medium sized tablets doesn't make much sense on a netbook (same with android) Jun 21 16:57:50 alterego: correct Jun 21 16:59:56 netbook support calldav that's good Jun 21 17:00:37 my gripe with the meego internet tablet/phone/MP3 player/etc. UI is unspipired Jun 21 17:00:49 prizm: (imo) does it need to be ? Jun 21 17:00:50 It looks way too much like iOS Jun 21 17:00:54 I Jun 21 17:00:58 whoops Jun 21 17:01:03 there is no real original UI design Jun 21 17:01:16 just a blatant copycat Jun 21 17:01:22 prizm: well, you can always try and create one :) Jun 21 17:01:35 I hate Qt and C++ ;) Jun 21 17:01:51 I have actually been using meego netbook in my s10-3t as my primary computer for a few weeks :P Jun 21 17:01:54 actually kinda like Qt but C++ must die. Jun 21 17:02:00 could be worse, could be Gtk+ and C Jun 21 17:02:03 that was painful Jun 21 17:02:07 prizm: One troll at a time please. Stick with iOS copying, don't charge off into a language war, it dillutes your brand. Jun 21 17:02:08 I prefer Gtk+ and C# Jun 21 17:02:17 Now three. :) Jun 21 17:02:34 sigh Jun 21 17:02:40 I'm not trying to troll. Jun 21 17:02:46 I love Maemo to death on my N800. Jun 21 17:02:59 But I feel MeeGo is a step in the wrong direction. Jun 21 17:03:20 UI-wise? Jun 21 17:03:26 If I want to cram program X on my meego, can i ? Jun 21 17:03:28 and direction wise Jun 21 17:03:33 it's a one-size fits all Jun 21 17:03:41 you might add a zipper, but it won't fit everything Jun 21 17:03:42 prizm: you cannot have a direction-wise wrong direction Jun 21 17:03:54 wonder if N9 N950 will have the fm emmiter , it is the most used feature on my N900 :) Jun 21 17:05:03 troulouliou: no Jun 21 17:05:22 ho no ... Jun 21 17:05:23 prizm: why don't you reserve your critiques until you've used the device, hmm? ;) Jun 21 17:05:31 oh wait, that would make sense Jun 21 17:05:31 OK then Jun 21 17:05:34 and be logical Jun 21 17:05:36 ;) Jun 21 17:06:01 I will just get and unlocked one later maybe, sans sim, don't want an expensive contract since I rarely make calls Jun 21 17:06:19 just use wifi, it's municpial here :D Jun 21 17:06:59 mainly why I got the N800 over the N900 Jun 21 17:07:18 probably should have got the N810 though, no "gorilla hands" problem with the stylus and moar RAM Jun 21 17:11:51 How simular is the nedbook to the phone ? Jun 21 17:11:55 *netbook Jun 21 17:12:08 Does it also pack evolution etz ? Jun 21 17:12:30 Qantourisc: they are entire universes apart Jun 21 17:12:43 alterego: o dear ... so this test is useless ? Jun 21 17:13:16 If you're trying to get an impression of handset meego on a netbook, yes :)# Jun 21 17:13:22 Qantourisc: do you have an N900? Jun 21 17:13:37 alterego: hell no :) Jun 21 17:14:16 Oh well :) Jun 21 17:14:28 * javispedro sighs Jun 21 17:14:35 and history repeats! Jun 21 17:14:47 javispedro: ? Jun 21 17:15:12 alterego: I'm looking for a proper Mobile OS :) Jun 21 17:15:19 when n900 was released, we got a large influx of "I want to dualboot maemo on my laptop before buying the n900" Jun 21 17:15:24 alterego^^ Jun 21 17:15:51 Well, they had scratchbox then Jun 21 17:16:05 I used m5 before I got an N900 in sbox Jun 21 17:16:42 qemu does support N800/N810 Jun 21 17:16:43 which, by then, was hardly an experience Jun 21 17:16:49 but I'm pretty sure it's not functional Jun 21 17:17:28 and besides, to download the firmware needed for emulation you have to have an NIT anyways so that's moot Jun 21 17:18:19 So, how can i take it for a spin ? :/ Jun 21 17:20:56 magic Jun 21 17:21:16 hehe :) Jun 21 17:21:18 alternatively, now this illegal but Jun 21 17:21:28 get a mask, a sledgehammer and preferably a gun Jun 21 17:21:39 smuggle this onto a plane to finland Jun 21 17:21:47 stealan :p Jun 21 17:21:56 take the things, and steal N9s out of Nokia HQ Jun 21 17:22:01 they might run WP7 though Jun 21 17:22:11 prizm: or go to finland and hire someone Jun 21 17:22:12 so be careful of Elop's wrath Jun 21 17:22:29 I'd get the N950 myself so I have a keyboard though Jun 21 17:24:00 -if- you can get one ;) Jun 21 17:24:19 wmarone: steal them! Jun 21 17:24:31 there was a demo video, so at least one exists Jun 21 17:24:37 check in finnish warehouses Jun 21 17:24:42 the samiliak stops here Jun 21 17:25:19 I don't need a N950, just want to see if it suits my needs before it buy sutch an expensive machine Jun 21 17:33:05 How are the N950 images build ? Jun 21 17:46:56 http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.2.0/builddata/image-configs/ <= hmmm Jun 21 17:47:20 what of it? Jun 21 17:47:37 are there any updated instructions on how to compile meego for beagleboard ? Jun 21 17:47:44 http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_on_Beagleboard_from_scratch says it wont work now Jun 21 17:47:58 Stskeeps: isn't that the clue to building your own ? Jun 21 17:48:31 Qantourisc: sure Jun 21 17:49:00 DesertZarzamora: I'm pretty sure that, minus the GUI, you could put meego on the beagleboard. kinda moot without the GUI though... Jun 21 17:49:28 wmarone: i want to test IVI on a beagle Jun 21 17:50:14 yeah, you're probably stuck like a lot of other people until (if) Ti decides to supply hardfp SGX drivers Jun 21 17:50:53 I thought OMAP3 hardfp drivers were there Jun 21 17:51:01 and that's what the beagle is Jun 21 17:51:37 I think the hardfp drivers are only in the N900 images Jun 21 17:51:50 redistributable, though Jun 21 17:51:56 but yeah Jun 21 17:56:22 which, by then, was hardly an experience Jun 21 17:56:31 * javispedro curses Jun 21 17:56:44 hm? Jun 21 17:56:59 typo Jun 21 17:57:03 large one =) Jun 21 17:57:30 btw, got to fix that shader build error Stskeeps ? Jun 21 17:57:40 Do we have any direct contact to TI? Is texrat connected to them? Jun 21 17:57:53 javispedro: obs went into a build avalanche Jun 21 17:58:05 javispedro: right now i'm trying to make mesa llvmpipe work with fbdev Jun 21 17:58:16 and i'm not having a very pleasant experience Jun 21 17:58:29 n810 again? Jun 21 17:58:38 nah, just a hobby project Jun 21 17:58:39 Stskeeps: no wonder, you really like bleeding edge. Jun 21 17:59:08 i thought n810 _is_ the hobby project Jun 21 17:59:10 javispedro: sideprojects are good Jun 21 17:59:45 oops! http://lwn.net/Articles/448590/ the N9 phone DOES NOT RUN MEEGO :( Jun 21 18:02:49 maour: Except it doesn't matter. Jun 21 18:03:32 heh, I'd care more about Arjan's problem with it... were there a handset available with pure MeeGo Jun 21 18:03:33 alas... Jun 21 18:03:53 maour: Wow, hadn't expected that to be the link to *my* comment, but rather arjan\'s Jun 21 18:04:05 wmarone: True. Jun 21 18:04:11 :) Jun 21 18:06:32 so we have precedent for marketing a device as MeeGo when its not MeeGo compliant Jun 21 18:06:37 that could be useful :) Jun 21 18:06:49 berndhs: not really, it could be a one-time exemption Jun 21 18:06:56 its still precedent Jun 21 18:07:05 and the LF is under no obligation to follow it Jun 21 18:07:14 especially now that 1.2 is out Jun 21 18:07:32 sure, but it is something future efforts can debate about Jun 21 18:07:42 berndhs: I'm not sure "but Nokia did it" will fly very far in future Jun 21 18:07:43 useful, not an automatic exception for everyone Jun 21 18:08:03 berndhs: Oooh, and can we reopen the debate about open vs. closed forum s/w whilst we're at it? =-p Jun 21 18:08:18 well guyes it IS precedent Jun 21 18:08:28 you can't say it isnt and be serious Jun 21 18:08:38 no one's saying it isn't precedent Jun 21 18:08:47 and how useful it is depends on who tries to use the precedent Jun 21 18:08:47 it's just very, very weak and easily rejected Jun 21 18:09:02 of course if I use it, it is meaningless Jun 21 18:09:20 if soemone with some market clout tries it, that's another story Jun 21 18:09:55 it probably weakens the reasons for having compliance Jun 21 18:10:14 if it became common for non-compliant devices to be marketed as compliant, that would be a Bad Thing Jun 21 18:10:18 and it also depends on who does the rejecting Jun 21 18:10:44 I can't reject it, neither can wmarone or Jaffa Jun 21 18:11:34 whether non-compliant devices are a Bad Thing depends on what compliance is Jun 21 18:11:49 berndhs: true, but I can imagine how it goes. I also imagine there was an agreement between LF/Intel/Nokia when MeeGo was founded Jun 21 18:11:56 which still isnt' very well defined Jun 21 18:12:39 sure Nokia was probably always a special case Jun 21 18:14:18 https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19683#c1 -- solved ... one more tablet-UX issue Jun 21 18:14:21 Bug 19683 nor, Undecided, ---, rusty.lynch, NEW, mud needs to set X-Moblin-Priority=high Jun 21 18:14:24 Does harmattan have qt theming? They seem to advertise qt pretty intensively and don't say support is limited to mtf or qml Jun 21 18:14:44 Is here or #maemo more appropriate to discuss harmattan. Jun 21 18:14:46 * SpeedEvil wonders. Jun 21 18:16:04 The thing is that MeeGo currently lacks any qt theming and plain qt apps are basically unusble. Jun 21 18:16:34 It would be nice if there's something to be imported from harmattan Jun 21 18:17:20 harbaum: just do your own branding for your apps Jun 21 18:17:42 harbaum: who cares about somebody's company theme Jun 21 18:19:45 Theming is more than just recoloring buttons and some fancy icons. In this case it e.g. changes the entire ux behaviour Jun 21 18:20:21 For example the menus work completely different under meego theming Jun 21 18:20:42 that's bad Jun 21 18:21:28 Have you ever used a qt app under desktop linux and under maemo5? They share the same code Jun 21 18:21:48 i dont have a maemo device, praise the lord :) Jun 21 18:22:18 hello all Jun 21 18:23:11 * alterego notes he could have said "the babies" .. Jun 21 18:24:09 harbaum: http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/harmattansdk/sdk-plain-qt-app.png Jun 21 18:24:55 Looks nice. Can't wait to run CacheMe ... Jun 21 18:25:21 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1035018 Jun 21 18:25:32 Can't believe someone has branded images they stole from the nokia.com website :D Jun 21 18:25:36 javispedro: QML or Qt? Jun 21 18:25:48 hiemanshu: that is "plain qt" as filename says, no dui Jun 21 18:26:02 s/dui/meegotouch Jun 21 18:26:17 javispedro: oh awesome Jun 21 18:26:19 (or qml) Jun 21 18:26:28 What does it look like on desktop? :P Jun 21 18:26:45 alterego: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/main-snapshot/images/calculator-example.png Jun 21 18:27:04 neat Jun 21 18:27:25 alterego: "unbelievable success" for Symbian^3? 1.2 GHz dual-core processor? 12 MP camera? Jun 21 18:27:25 maemo5? Jun 21 18:27:27 symbian? Jun 21 18:27:42 alterego: symbian=ugly as hell, maemo5=hildonized Jun 21 18:27:50 but do not have pictures (would be cool I guess) Jun 21 18:27:57 thiago_home: it's funny, looks like that guy opened up a tmo account just to pimp that article on presumably his own website. Jun 21 18:28:05 "symbian60v5.com" Jun 21 18:28:10 awful domain to have :) Jun 21 18:28:34 probably spambot Jun 21 18:28:45 "64GB Expandable Memory" Jun 21 18:28:55 he's wrong, I'm sure it's 64GB eXtended Memory Jun 21 18:29:04 javispedro: oh that's true, the memory inflates into a life raft. Jun 21 18:29:45 that would actually be _useful_ Jun 21 18:29:45 I just figured out what was missing from the Nokia Connections conference. Jun 21 18:30:04 alterego: Elop? Jun 21 18:30:39 * thiago_home sees 450 hours of stand-by time in the spec Jun 21 18:30:54 450!? I was happy to get 100 out of my proto. Jun 21 18:31:03 The "N-Cloud" Jun 21 18:31:37 thiago_home: but... you were /using/ yours ;) Jun 21 18:31:41 ugh, why does the SDK installer look so bad :/ Jun 21 18:32:07 leinir: every now and then, yes Jun 21 18:32:26 I guess that if you turn EVERYTHING off except for the phone network, you may get 200 hours Jun 21 18:32:35 javispedro: does qtcreator for harmanttan include a qemu? Jun 21 18:32:41 harbaum: yes Jun 21 18:33:00 I just wish it would turn the wifi off when there's nothing being transmitted Jun 21 18:33:03 k ... Jun 21 18:33:06 harbaum: you need to specifically select it, it's under experimental though. Jun 21 18:33:39 thiago_home: do not blame wifi Jun 21 18:33:43 javispedro: already found it ... still downloading Jun 21 18:34:02 javispedro: it did increase power consumption by 25-33% Jun 21 18:34:07 thiago_home: you could get weeks of battery life on n8x0 with wifi and good router Jun 21 18:34:55 compared to baseline with nothing running except for the phone network Jun 21 18:35:51 I've seen current consumption that would lead me to believe that 220 hours on n900 is quite possible, logged into network. Jun 21 18:36:19 (with proper flags set in the modem so it only wakes CPU on calls, and suspend-RAM on) Jun 21 18:38:11 well, yeah, in theory, assuming a perfect battery Jun 21 18:38:30 Even a less than perfect battery Jun 21 18:38:39 assuming the battery is perfectly spherical and homogeneous? Jun 21 18:38:52 gabrbedd:and suspended in vacuum Jun 21 18:39:16 with no friction Jun 21 18:39:23 in a gaussian chamber. Jun 21 18:39:43 inextensible too Jun 21 18:39:52 in liquid helium Jun 21 18:39:53 javispedro: How big is this harmattan sdk download? ... it's now at 4% .... Jun 21 18:40:10 harbaum: around 500-600M Jun 21 18:40:16 harbaum: depends on what you chose Jun 21 18:40:19 harbaum: if downloading all Jun 21 18:40:35 harbaum: note: 100% download is around 35% Jun 21 18:40:42 for some reason =) Jun 21 18:40:58 and at 80% it says installation finished :P Jun 21 18:41:02 modem standby consumption seems to hit lower limit at ~3mA frequently Jun 21 18:41:48 In principle, you could take it to 400h - but that would require hax. Jun 21 18:41:57 (boot on ring) Jun 21 18:42:40 * thiago_home did get 4mA consumption Jun 21 18:42:52 R&D mode enabled Jun 21 18:42:54 incl ram refresh and all Jun 21 18:43:35 installed MeeGo 1.2, where can I get new software for it? looks like Garage doesnt work and software catalog doesnt show any package. Jun 21 18:43:38 ram will eat a bit, 1..2mA Jun 21 18:43:49 You can refresh only a quarter of RAM, and save a bit. Jun 21 18:43:53 But... Jun 21 18:46:10 SpeedEvil: that's where the new physical memory defragmentation linux feature comes in! Jun 21 18:46:57 To get any saving from refreshing part of RAM, you pretty much need to be in suspend-RAM Jun 21 18:47:03 ^significant Jun 21 18:48:05 javispedro: I am not sure if you are kidding, but one could actually clean up ram Jun 21 18:48:48 not kidding, it is really implemented, and used for transparent large pages Jun 21 18:49:12 (because if you introduce differently sized frames you introduce fragmentation, so you need a defragmenter...) Jun 21 18:49:21 javispedro, just assume the party escort submission position Jun 21 18:49:42 Heh Jun 21 18:49:44 where can I get new software for MeeGo 1.2 (ideapad) Jun 21 18:50:04 It's going to be interesting, I can see myself carrying a fair few devices around with me soon. Jun 21 18:50:10 N8, N950 & N900 Jun 21 18:50:12 evening everyone Jun 21 18:50:21 As well as laptop and possibly tablet (depending on mood) Jun 21 18:50:37 * javispedro shoots portal to lcuk 's house, steals prototypes, forces #maemo members to fight in order to win the prototypes Jun 21 18:50:41 make them cooperate Jun 21 18:50:53 * n8willis needs an irc client that allows the highlighting of different nicks on different networks Jun 21 18:50:56 javispedro, I showed alterego my prototype on sunday Jun 21 18:51:10 * alterego chuckles Jun 21 18:51:13 It was cutting edge. Jun 21 18:51:14 * lcuk has carried it around and shown it to only a few select people Jun 21 18:51:31 We need to market and deploy that .. Jun 21 18:51:36 alterego: I bet it was on a cardboard box instead of plastic Jun 21 18:51:46 oh, it was plastic Jun 21 18:51:55 javispedro: that was one of the cutting edge ideas I had, real disposable hardware :) Jun 21 18:51:58 And eco friendly. Jun 21 18:51:59 runs on liquid Jun 21 18:52:07 fuel cells! Jun 21 18:52:16 on going call screen looks kinda crappy: http://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/pages/Communication.html Jun 21 18:52:20 n8willis: iirssi ? Jun 21 18:52:23 does anyone know where I can find an active irc channel about tegra and especially linux for tegra? Jun 21 18:52:42 quesiton about n9: Jun 21 18:52:46 * n8willis goes by n8 on some others Jun 21 18:52:52 do fingerprint smears get noticed more Jun 21 18:52:56 I'll investigate it, Qantourisc Jun 21 18:53:00 hi n8willis Jun 21 18:53:04 n8willis: but it's purely cli ... Jun 21 18:53:09 whazzup lcuk Jun 21 18:53:22 * lcuk still waiting for real baby Jun 21 18:53:31 Got it, thc everyone Jun 21 18:53:33 glad silion/gorilla one is out in the wild Jun 21 18:53:35 thx sorry Jun 21 18:53:37 bye Jun 21 18:53:56 alterego: call screen looks cool imho, also incoming call notification Jun 21 18:53:57 does touchscreen work with screen protector still? Jun 21 18:54:41 the ui does indeed look slick Jun 21 18:55:02 and in all demos seem to date, it has gotten over the bluenail thing Jun 21 18:55:08 * Qantourisc fears the most meego will end up dead ... otherwise it's looking verry promising Jun 21 18:55:14 bluenail? Jun 21 18:55:22 ShadowJK, at the n8 launch Jun 21 18:55:36 there was a nokia symbian demonstrator lady with blue nails Jun 21 18:55:43 who used a real keypad all her life Jun 21 18:55:45 clearly it's the wrong shade of pink :) Jun 21 18:55:46 very fast actions Jun 21 18:55:53 on the touchscreen only the ui did not keep up Jun 21 18:56:14 the n9 seems much higher class Jun 21 18:56:17 ShadowJK, why wouldn't it? Jun 21 18:56:37 you'd expect things to react fast, or atleast you wouldn't expect to have to wait for slow UIs and transitions and shit to play out before device accepts next input Jun 21 18:56:57 ShadowJK, she raced ahead and the ui did not manage it Jun 21 18:57:11 she used her nokia like her everyday phone Jun 21 18:57:28 which was a nokia because on another keypad model it flew along Jun 21 18:57:40 I highlighted this testing scenario for a number of weeks Jun 21 18:57:47 * Qantourisc usually disables all transitions if he can ... they are pointless Jun 21 18:58:03 so the UI slowed her down.. Jun 21 18:58:17 yes hold on there are videos Jun 21 18:58:21 * timoph wonders how many times word "nokia" has been said today in this channel Jun 21 18:58:24 it was cringeworthy Jun 21 18:58:36 timoph: will be a spike on the irc stats Jun 21 18:58:43 yeah Jun 21 18:59:30 n8 got much better Jun 21 18:59:39 how come? Jun 21 19:00:11 N9? Jun 21 19:05:34 javispedro, have you ever written pseudocode Jun 21 19:05:53 lcuk: I'm a grad student now, many times. Jun 21 19:06:23 grad student? Jun 21 19:06:40 lol Jun 21 19:06:41 http://liqbase.net/liq.20110621_200232.codebox4.scr.png Jun 21 19:06:53 many people write pseudocode and then patch it until it's C Jun 21 19:07:00 berndhs, heh Jun 21 19:07:13 i start lots of modules as comment blocks Jun 21 19:07:27 last time I wrote pseudocode it ended up being fully functional php Jun 21 19:07:53 I personally just write lots of empty function stubs and then write them. If I remember. Otherwise I fill the stubs when the program crashes ;P Jun 21 19:07:57 that's a bash.org worthy quote right there! Jun 21 19:08:15 lol javispedro Jun 21 19:08:22 that was how visual basic was invented Jun 21 19:08:29 javispedro: did you see my wayland WSEGL btw? Jun 21 19:08:56 wayland is completely outside of my knowledge area :P Jun 21 19:09:01 alright Jun 21 19:09:32 javispedro, wayland is just like an emulator Jun 21 19:09:51 but the emulations are real binaries :P Jun 21 19:09:59 more like an X11 emulator ;) Jun 21 19:10:10 liq* emulator ;) Jun 21 19:13:19 I bet this what is fun about wayland. Seems understandable. Jun 21 19:13:23 what's better about wayland other than its faster ? better API than X11 ? Jun 21 19:13:55 simpler api Jun 21 19:14:02 direct mode compositing Jun 21 19:14:06 ie shared memory Jun 21 19:15:35 meego uses quite the elaborate build-tool ... mic2 .... still installing stuff to make it run ... Jun 21 19:15:49 is anyone asking: can harmattan scale to different form factors? Jun 21 19:16:03 or is it specific to the phone Jun 21 19:16:41 check the themes for yourself Jun 21 19:17:20 would not know where to start Jun 21 19:17:30 harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool Jun 21 19:17:30 :P Jun 21 19:18:19 * javispedro does a quick test by running it under 1024x768 Jun 21 19:18:36 hum, fail, mtf hardcodes size Jun 21 19:20:47 stsKeeps: python-2.6 and pyside :) thanks, you make me happy Jun 21 19:21:42 javispedro: screenshot please Jun 21 19:21:56 na, found it under MDeviceStyle Jun 21 19:22:23 I mean, .css file. Jun 21 19:24:19 there are references to lower resolutions like N95's 240x320 though Jun 21 19:25:47 javispedro, in original liqbase it includes gameboy resolution Jun 21 19:26:03 the xvideo being res changing was awesome then Jun 21 19:30:02 seriooouuusly Jun 21 19:30:15 using CSS for definining the swipe pattern recognition attributes? Jun 21 19:31:15 in the future I suggest destroying gconf&dconf altogether and just use cascading style^Wconfiguration sheets Jun 21 19:31:19 couldv been coded in Jun 21 19:31:31 javispedro, can you check if adding more pages is possible Jun 21 19:31:50 * MohammadAG has a few things in mind Jun 21 19:32:05 how do I make qmlviewer use software rendering? Jun 21 19:32:05 also, is discussing Harmattan on #meego on topic? Jun 21 19:32:24 might actually make sense. you could have a generic all_applications { show_splash_screen: 1; } and then a rule that says mail { show_splash_screen: 0; } ;) Jun 21 19:32:28 right now i am running a very basic qml app on a gma500 and the kinetic scroll pane is terrible Jun 21 19:35:01 Error: You must run mic-image-creator as root <=WTF ? Jun 21 19:37:23 hmmmm mic2 is broken: options_from_ks Jun 21 19:42:14 whats a good netbook or tablet to get for dev stuff? Jun 21 19:43:19 hiemanshu, the lenovo ideapad has had good solid testing Jun 21 19:43:35 other devices seem to have greater/lesser luck with things like keyboards etc Jun 21 19:43:45 'options_from_ks' is not defined <= any suggestions ? Jun 21 19:43:48 lcuk: a specific model? Jun 21 19:44:09 when trying to run mic-image-creator Jun 21 19:44:39 hiemanshu, 1000ish of the S10-3t model were given out to conference participants Jun 21 19:44:46 at Dublin 2010 Jun 21 19:44:56 lcuk: dammit, I want one :/ Jun 21 19:45:02 tardis Jun 21 19:45:15 thought that might be harder than ordering a computer Jun 21 19:46:02 lcuk: any tablets? Jun 21 19:46:25 i have some paracetamol Jun 21 19:46:40 the s10 is convertable slate Jun 21 19:46:43 the exopc is another slate Jun 21 19:46:43 * javispedro needs some paracetamol Jun 21 19:46:56 * lcuk needs a contract Jun 21 19:48:15 lcuk: the dev versions of exopc still being given out? Jun 21 19:48:22 idk Jun 21 19:48:34 * hiemanshu needs to buy one Jun 21 19:48:37 I don't consider slates without a keyboard to be computers ;) Jun 21 19:48:43 others do Jun 21 19:48:52 but I tend to expect real keys sometimes Jun 21 19:48:56 well I have BT keyboards Jun 21 19:49:16 the more i learn about the N950 device, I can understand why it wasn't going to cut it. the specs alone, it wasn't the top of the top Jun 21 19:49:17 i don't mind convertable slate Jun 21 19:49:22 I dev on most of my hardware Jun 21 19:49:35 flailingmonkey, ? Jun 21 19:49:53 flailingmonkey: and the n9 is? Jun 21 19:49:57 you do not need to have 10000cc engine to travel faast Jun 21 19:50:02 the n9 is not for me either Jun 21 19:50:17 m'hmm well then :P Jun 21 19:50:48 flailingmonkey: oh but the pink one would go so well with your purse :) Jun 21 19:51:15 lcuk: except my iPhone, every other device I own is a dev device Jun 21 19:51:18 my hope would be that they take keyboard/hinge and pair that with truly leading hardware Jun 21 19:51:28 time to get one for meego Jun 21 19:51:45 hiemanshu, your iphone is a development device Jun 21 19:51:51 it will not be completed until meego runs on it. Jun 21 19:52:06 lcuk: :D Jun 21 19:52:11 berndhs: and with it I could probably get the attention of many girls down at the bar :p Jun 21 19:52:24 lcuk: well I dont do dev on it, but sure, I could lend it anyone wants me to test something :P Jun 21 19:52:43 hiemanshu, I have a vewrsion of n900fly that can run on iphone Jun 21 19:52:46 can I test it? Jun 21 19:52:57 lcuk: sure :P Jun 21 19:53:25 in all seriousness Jun 21 19:53:33 I have been waiting for someone to get meego onto iphone Jun 21 19:53:43 because I want to see if liqbase really can go faster than apple Jun 21 19:53:53 MohammadAG: source of launcher and home app is at http://meego.gitorious.org/meegotouch/meegotouch-home/trees; cannot really find any place where you could add a new page Jun 21 19:54:05 lcuk: well the only problem being, there is no openiboot for the 3GS Jun 21 19:54:07 * lcuk might have a bash at theming liqbase to harmattan Jun 21 19:54:10 though there seems to be some kind of extension support Jun 21 19:54:37 hiemanshu, Jun 21 19:54:40 hy not? Jun 21 19:54:47 can't linux be booted on iphone Jun 21 19:54:55 * lcuk needs a new keyboard Jun 21 19:54:56 sure, but not on the 3GS/4 Jun 21 19:55:03 only on the 3G/2G Jun 21 19:55:04 screw those Jun 21 19:55:08 fine by me Jun 21 19:55:09 javispedro, those are the Harmattan launchers? Jun 21 19:55:10 I dont have the older ones Jun 21 19:55:11 can we get meego on it? Jun 21 19:55:40 Android runs on the iPhone, build on that and you could get MeeGo on it Jun 21 19:55:45 MohammadAG: meegotouchhome 0.30.0-1+0m6 Jun 21 19:56:00 oh Jun 21 19:56:01 lcuk: maybe if I find my 1st iPod Touch, I could try meego on it, I got busybox and a few other stuff running just fine Jun 21 19:56:17 MohammadAG: not on the 3GS/4, still under dev Jun 21 19:56:36 cool! Jun 21 19:56:42 meego on iphone :D Jun 21 19:56:50 javispedro, I'll ask again, are you sure it's the Maemo 6/Harmattan one? Jun 21 19:56:59 that's the "oh" part Jun 21 19:57:04 it's very similar though. Jun 21 19:57:04 :p Jun 21 19:57:36 either way, it's on stable repo, sources included. Jun 21 19:58:03 i filed bug 19616 the other day Jun 21 19:58:06 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=19616 nor, Undecided, ---, jerry.yu, NEW, [ideapad] Video Out using VGA cable does not support mirroring Jun 21 19:58:19 the M6 one? Jun 21 19:58:21 anybody know how I would make it work Jun 21 19:58:40 wow, in india the s10-3t is more expensive than my current notebook :/ Jun 21 19:58:40 MohammadAG: yep, harmattan Jun 21 19:58:57 hiemanshu: noooooooooooooooooooot worth it. Jun 21 19:58:58 yay, so adding more than 3 pages is possible Jun 21 19:59:19 Who should replace @BUILD_ID@ with something sane ? Jun 21 19:59:24 javispedro: not buying it :P Jun 21 19:59:31 javispedro: wouldn't mind donations though :P Jun 21 19:59:31 MohammadAG: by replacing source :P Jun 21 19:59:53 MohammadAG: booooooring unless it works with that extension support it has Jun 21 20:00:11 but I do not understand why I'd want to draw more than one wallpaper at the same time Jun 21 20:00:31 javispedro: dual head phone ? Jun 21 20:00:41 "the N9 does prompt us to ask why the company has opted against making MeeGo its long-term smartphone OS of choice." http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/21/nokia-n9-first-hands-on/ Jun 21 20:01:01 no word on n9 having any sort of usb hostmode type supper right? Jun 21 20:01:12 Alison_Chaiken: As has it prompted us all. Especially since "3 devices by the end of 2012" doesn't really stack up Jun 21 20:02:06 Engadget loves the N9. I take comfort where I can find it. Jun 21 20:02:48 Alison_Chaiken, perhaps it came from the other side, of Microsoft wanting something specific Jun 21 20:03:19 besides though, having nokia devices hosting different operating systems is something we want! Jun 21 20:03:46 maemo faught against that forever Jun 21 20:03:47 Dualboot windows/meego would be really awesome in many ways Jun 21 20:03:53 Interesting, plain Qt apps are mostly skinned in Harmattan SDK Jun 21 20:03:54 not dualboot Jun 21 20:03:58 but consumer choice. Jun 21 20:04:02 lcuk: I mean alternate, yes Jun 21 20:04:05 first boot decision Jun 21 20:04:12 something I always spoke about Jun 21 20:04:17 buy phone, turn it on Jun 21 20:04:28 "symbian/meego/windows" Jun 21 20:04:37 fiferboy: Interesting Jun 21 20:05:43 * lcuk getting a c5-03 soon Jun 21 20:05:48 It is actually a nice skin, too. One I have never seen before Jun 21 20:05:50 nice resistive symbian :) Jun 21 20:06:04 lcuk: Naah - symbian/meego/windows. Jun 21 20:06:21 SpeedEvil, what then? Jun 21 20:06:25 lcuk: Straight up is symbian, upside down is windows, and landscape is meego. Jun 21 20:07:03 Does this count as disclosure, if I want to patent this idea? Jun 21 20:07:13 yes Jun 21 20:07:28 or its code only Jun 21 20:07:31 i am not sure Jun 21 20:07:43 i have allowed many ideas to seep out in code Jun 21 20:07:51 * lcuk will be stopping that soon enough Jun 21 20:08:27 * lcuk needs an office to put most ideas into Jun 21 20:08:46 Jaffa, somebody already said, what about the n10 Jun 21 20:09:03 wanna get tsg organised towards a proper open meego effort Jun 21 20:10:34 thanks for the retweet lcuk Jun 21 20:10:54 anidel, it is important! Jun 21 20:11:02 It is indeed! Jun 21 20:11:10 the open meego is what we need to work on Jun 21 20:11:12 it would be nice to have great keyboard/hinge, but a dual-core chipset, with hdmi and microSD Jun 21 20:11:30 the n9000 Jun 21 20:12:17 n_over_9000 Jun 21 20:13:01 Is it ok to say the mic2 build are a PITA to get going ? Jun 21 20:13:02 n9001 Jun 21 20:13:16 it's... over nine thousand?! Jun 21 20:13:53 wow CE tomorrow??? let's hope! Jun 21 20:14:26 Jaffa, Jun 21 20:14:36 latest mwkn link goes to 770 tuner Jun 21 20:14:54 yeah :) Jun 21 20:14:56 rather than Jun 21 20:14:56 Hmm, with Harmattan targets in Qt SDK do I need the Harmattan platform SDK *as well*? Doesn't seem to start qemu... Jun 21 20:14:58 Devel: Information on #N9 Community Device Programme http://is.gd/urAmKj #maemo Jun 21 20:14:59 lcuk: URL? Jun 21 20:15:00 I was puzzled Jun 21 20:15:08 Grr Jun 21 20:15:10 Ta Jun 21 20:15:16 http://is.gd/urAmKj -> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=3597 Jun 21 20:17:38 anidel: Fixed. Ta. Jun 21 20:17:59 jaffa nothing Jun 21 20:18:42 Gary Birkett lcuk Jun 21 20:18:42 Jun 21 20:18:42 Yes indeed. Developing markets cannot afford latest tech, they should not miss out on latest software. @jukkaeklund @h0pbeat @RevdKathy Jun 21 20:18:45 crap Jun 21 20:19:47 why can't the markets afford the latest tech ? Jun 21 20:20:08 berndhs, for every ferarri on the road there are 1000 fords. Jun 21 20:20:21 no i mean the developing markets Jun 21 20:20:21 berndhs: is that a real question ? Jun 21 20:20:35 you can buy a ferrari in Bangla Desh Jun 21 20:20:49 but the majority cannot afford one Jun 21 20:20:50 berndhs: but only a verry select few can affort Jun 21 20:20:51 which was the point Jun 21 20:21:18 right, and the majority bcan't afford a ferrari in the UK either, so whats the difference ? Jun 21 20:21:42 who said anything about a country? I said a market Jun 21 20:22:03 you are the one that assumed I was not meaning the UK for instance Jun 21 20:22:05 whats your definition of a market then ? Jun 21 20:22:16 selling a product Jun 21 20:22:23 well lets not get into how developed the UK is or isn't :) Jun 21 20:22:44 Hmm, even desktop Qt apps run without TOO much trouble in Harmattan SDK Jun 21 20:22:59 point I was making and accidentally pasted here was that the latest software should run on regular existing hardware Jun 21 20:23:08 fiferboy, that is expected Jun 21 20:23:22 the qt promise has to be made to work well Jun 21 20:23:31 lcuk: Actually, I may have spoken too soon Jun 21 20:23:33 yes unless the software does something special on special devices Jun 21 20:23:37 and lots of very dedicated people try every day to ensure that Jun 21 20:23:43 Looks like serious problems with check boxed and combo boxes at least Jun 21 20:23:46 bug them if it doesnt run Jun 21 20:23:57 well, regular qt on normal meego handset has never worked properly... Jun 21 20:24:06 lol mek :P Jun 21 20:24:07 shush Jun 21 20:24:09 Could be a scratchbox themeing bug, that wouldn't be unheard of Jun 21 20:24:21 fiferboy, Jun 21 20:24:25 Mek: Exactly why I was surprised Jun 21 20:24:31 I was once asked to make configuration dialog for liqflow Jun 21 20:24:35 with combo boxes Jun 21 20:24:38 But Maemo6 is much more grounded in Qt, I suppose Jun 21 20:24:44 i ended up making a whole tag cloud Jun 21 20:24:59 and now can make anything flow around Jun 21 20:25:11 * lcuk sees ideas drift around peacefully Jun 21 20:25:15 berndhs: let me rephrase, in the uk not everyone can affort a ferrari, but in the developing countries not everyone can even affort ANY car. Jun 21 20:25:28 not everyone can afford a phone Jun 21 20:25:34 let alone the latest and greatest Jun 21 20:25:44 so what? you can offer the highest tech phones in the most backward markets Jun 21 20:25:58 * lcuk will give n8x0 proper usecases back Jun 21 20:26:01 berndhs: the price of a phone there, would cost you half a car in comparison ? Jun 21 20:26:03 for daily use they are perfect Jun 21 20:26:04 especially if you don't have to count on selling a lot of them Jun 21 20:26:07 my n810 is my calendar Jun 21 20:26:11 and clock Jun 21 20:26:22 Apparently the SDK has major problems loading my big dialog and wants to close my application Jun 21 20:26:49 a good phone can have more utility than a basic car Jun 21 20:26:58 fiferboy, if I get you a dataset Jun 21 20:27:02 that is not in a database Jun 21 20:27:06 Depends if you're in an area with good transport. Jun 21 20:27:13 Otherwise - not really. Jun 21 20:27:16 what would it cost me to ask for a qt version to be developed Jun 21 20:27:21 berndhs: and in devoloping countries ... hardly the case :) Jun 21 20:27:25 and especially, a good phone has more utility than half a car Jun 21 20:27:27 whtat uses a database and professional data Jun 21 20:27:51 with a good phone you can sell your products without driving all over the place Jun 21 20:27:53 lcuk: Not sure I follow Jun 21 20:28:10 fiferboy, my sketches Jun 21 20:28:13 berndhs: that assumes the other guy has a car Jun 21 20:28:15 they are flat files Jun 21 20:28:17 lcuk: a proffesion developer ? Jun 21 20:28:20 and the tagging is flat files also Jun 21 20:28:24 no it doesn't Jun 21 20:28:27 i want qt implementation Jun 21 20:28:30 using databases Jun 21 20:28:40 you're assuming that driving is necessary Jun 21 20:28:41 (since I know that post processing is easier) Jun 21 20:29:03 lcuk: Ah. You are converting liqbase to Qt? Jun 21 20:29:06 i once tried making sqlite database version Jun 21 20:29:09 sell stuff over the phone, deliver by donkey Jun 21 20:29:09 but i am poor at coding Jun 21 20:29:14 yes fiferboy Jun 21 20:29:17 And want to swtich from flat files to database? Jun 21 20:29:22 yes Jun 21 20:29:26 berndhs: you strike me as a troll now ... Jun 21 20:29:28 but i have performance constraints Jun 21 20:29:43 no i'm offering alternative thoughts Jun 21 20:29:44 on data access and stuff Jun 21 20:29:54 and it would likely be closed source Jun 21 20:30:50 berndhs: a ok Jun 21 20:30:51 fiferboy, I would need to do some investigation to see which framework/model will work Jun 21 20:31:05 I have been offered some advice from WP perspective Jun 21 20:31:12 which is an appealing direction Jun 21 20:31:28 lcuk: Yes, depending on the amount of multi-table queries you use it may be worthwhile wirting your own model Jun 21 20:31:33 i personally want to keep the sketches as flat files Jun 21 20:31:40 with just the meta data indexed in Jun 21 20:32:07 fiferboy, Jun 21 20:32:08 http://liqbase.net/grid/grid_readable.png Jun 21 20:32:21 I scanned every sketch and tag and media file Jun 21 20:32:28 and produced a whole clickable live grid Jun 21 20:32:41 I can click on any date period or box to see the contents Jun 21 20:32:49 but generating that table takes 2 minutes Jun 21 20:33:00 loading a cache file is instantanious Jun 21 20:33:15 I used to do this sort of data modelling on million+ record databases, hence knowing the need Jun 21 20:33:46 lcuk: Yeah, looks like a database could help you there Jun 21 20:33:59 250 n950s :( Jun 21 20:33:59 I hate mic ... Jun 21 20:34:13 i hope meego for the archos a70 becomes usable Jun 21 20:34:21 fiferboy, the tagcloud looks pretty though http://liqbase.net/liq.20110612_225308.tagcloud_system.scr.png Jun 21 20:34:27 that is instant loading! Jun 21 20:34:40 just then filtering between all sketches and those in/out of the tag is odd Jun 21 20:35:32 lcuk: So are you looking for help constructing a database or coding a Qt implementation? Jun 21 20:35:52 they go hand in hand Jun 21 20:36:04 it is difficult to consider asking people to code directly in liqbase Jun 21 20:36:30 as much as I want to I know it will be more saleable to do qt based development Jun 21 20:36:51 fiferboy, I have the core sketching class in qt Jun 21 20:37:09 lcuk: Using a graphics scene or something similar? Jun 21 20:37:24 fiferboy, technical considerations would not be my game Jun 21 20:37:41 as long as performance on my devices was equal or greater than liqbase currently :) Jun 21 20:37:45 Did anyone else notice the lack of documents to go? Jun 21 20:38:18 fiferboy, I would want to be overseeing rather than directly coding implementation Jun 21 20:38:26 so if QML is usable and fast enough, great Jun 21 20:38:27 alterego: Spec sheet says email app can open various formats including OOo and Office Jun 21 20:38:35 but if not, the lower qt layers might suffice Jun 21 20:38:37 Oh, interesting. Jun 21 20:38:43 Fair does Jun 21 20:38:46 I have been told qtquick2 should support the line drawing I need Jun 21 20:39:28 fiferboy, it might be that multiple implementations grow out of this Jun 21 20:39:40 :) Jun 21 20:39:53 You'd want a QML based UI with the sketch canvas as a C++ implemented QML component. Jun 21 20:39:56 lcuk: By multiple implementations meaning different interfaces for different UX's? Jun 21 20:39:57 Easy peasy Jun 21 20:40:37 lcuk: alterego sounds like he knows what he is talking about Jun 21 20:40:46 yes fiferboy Jun 21 20:41:05 but getting alterego from an "easy-peasy" to an implementation of saleable product is tough! Jun 21 20:42:12 lcuk: I could probably be of assistance for Qt database coding, but graphics in general are not my forte Jun 21 20:42:41 fiferboy, sure tis good to discuss the processes needed for getting real apps out there Jun 21 20:43:12 lcuk: all you have to do is ask :) Jun 21 20:43:40 And give me a few screen grabs of each state you want, and tell me how you want the the transitions to work. Jun 21 20:44:04 alterego: It is dangerous to make offers like that in an open channel Jun 21 20:44:14 I have a bunch of GUIs I need to convert into QML Jun 21 20:44:19 Heh Jun 21 20:44:27 I've already told lcuk I'd do it for him. Jun 21 20:44:34 alterego, I spoke to you at weekend Jun 21 20:44:42 I will speak to Greg in a few days Jun 21 20:44:49 Cool, Jun 21 20:44:53 it is hard to concentrate atm though with baby Jun 21 20:45:05 lcuk: I understand, lets get that out of the way first m'kay? Jun 21 20:45:06 errr not baby here Jun 21 20:45:08 baby wait Jun 21 20:45:15 :) Jun 21 20:45:23 yeah hence am just trying to get words out whilst I can Jun 21 20:45:38 intent hopefully the right direction Jun 21 20:45:46 lcuk: You are going to be very busy soon :) Jun 21 20:45:59 yeah fiferboy Jun 21 20:47:03 * lbt_nur says "hi" Jun 21 20:47:04 alterego, clicked "Smile" tag, drew a big wide curve and watching the smiles float around Jun 21 20:47:10 hi lbt_nur Jun 21 20:48:08 lbt_away: Hi there! Jun 21 20:48:16 lbt_nur: Hi as well Jun 21 20:48:21 *g* Jun 21 20:48:31 fiferboy: so are you coaching lcuk? Jun 21 20:48:37 * alterego installs harmattan sdk Jun 21 20:48:51 lbt_nur: Coaching in databases to babies? Jun 21 20:48:53 alterego: nah ... just use the OBS Jun 21 20:48:57 fiferboy: yup :D Jun 21 20:49:11 lbt_nur: Is OBS geared up for Harmattan? Jun 21 20:49:15 yep Jun 21 20:49:29 lbt_nur: Awesome! Jun 21 20:49:38 Now I need to re-polish my deb package skills Jun 21 20:49:41 we asked about it last march ... it's been ticking away since then Jun 21 20:50:17 niels is driving it now though Jun 21 20:50:23 lbt_nur: I heard rumours about OBS being somewhat transparent as to what it is packaging Jun 21 20:50:32 very much so Jun 21 20:50:38 Meaning it could generate an RPM or Deb from a single source Jun 21 20:50:50 s/or/and/ Jun 21 20:51:10 lbt_nur: Does this still require a debian directory and spec file for each source? Jun 21 20:51:20 yes Jun 21 20:51:27 it's not magic Jun 21 20:51:29 just close Jun 21 20:51:35 lbt_nur: But I want my magic! Jun 21 20:51:43 * lbt_nur waves his wand Jun 21 20:51:53 * fiferboy goes to add Harmattan targets to his OBS repo Jun 21 20:51:53 (and waits for DawnFoster to appear) Jun 21 20:52:02 hmmm? Jun 21 20:52:38 we wanted some magic ... who better ;) Jun 21 20:52:40 It is magic! Jun 21 20:52:50 ha :) Jun 21 20:52:55 I usually use doves... Jun 21 20:54:08 lbt_nur: Is there a specific project I should add to my repo for Harmattan? Jun 21 20:54:10 fiferboy: so look at Fremantle first .. that's working Jun 21 20:54:29 they only announced H sdk today afaik Jun 21 20:54:58 so for legal reasons we're doing it on maemo.org... then we'll provide a link from the meego obs Jun 21 20:55:15 much like we provide a link from c.obs to main obs and suse obs Jun 21 20:55:27 Ah, I'll have to keep up with that progress Jun 21 20:56:01 yeah ... we need to upgrade this OBS RSN (maybe coming w'end) Jun 21 20:56:04 oh damn Jun 21 20:56:21 oh, it's not wednesday yet ... nm Jun 21 20:56:26 DawnFoster, \o Jun 21 20:56:36 so I guess we know a few more of the werewolves now Jun 21 20:56:51 I'm a villager Jun 21 20:57:21 whilst I recall.... who thinks we should have a public meego-infra channel for doing IT work/dev Jun 21 20:57:48 DawnFoster, how would we go about gaining intel hands on help for a project which will still be strong on arm Jun 21 20:57:51 Talk to you guys later Jun 21 20:58:05 we have immense problems with n900-ce and intel assigned addresses for it Jun 21 20:58:20 nn fiferboy Jun 21 20:58:21 addresses? Jun 21 20:58:40 lbt_nur, was talking to timoph about bugs earlier Jun 21 20:58:43 or he was asking Jun 21 20:58:48 BTW what's the batery time on these pupies btw ? Jun 21 20:58:50 hold on, lemme find out Jun 21 20:59:08 channels are noisey so cannot remember where discussion was Jun 21 20:59:09 IP addresses? not sure why that's an Intel issue Jun 21 20:59:24 but finding a way for @intel people to be helpful even on arm things would be great ;) Jun 21 21:00:01 almost nothing about CE is arm-related Jun 21 21:00:32 hmmh. who to assign ce settings bugs since handset ux -> settings goes to @intel by default Jun 21 21:00:54 email addresses Jun 21 21:00:54 lcuk: yep. it's going to have [CE] and platform set to N900 but speeds up the process if I'd know who would be the right guy for assignee Jun 21 21:01:16 * lcuk trying to see through the n9ness to actual work stuff Jun 21 21:01:32 well, this is where CE should have its own BZ Jun 21 21:01:53 if it wants to be a vendor then it should Jun 21 21:02:05 right Jun 21 21:02:10 so like the n9 will have its own Jun 21 21:02:15 meh Jun 21 21:02:16 different Jun 21 21:02:22 not really Jun 21 21:02:26 n9 is a meego vendor Jun 21 21:02:28 err Jun 21 21:02:29 your know Jun 21 21:02:31 n9 is not a meego.com project and nothing to do with us Jun 21 21:02:46 more complete example of full vendor though Jun 21 21:03:06 well, insofar as it's secret, yes Jun 21 21:03:14 heh Jun 21 21:03:23 so it is almost impossible to see how nokia as a vendor relates to meego Jun 21 21:03:31 same goes for any other real vendor Jun 21 21:03:40 too many commercial issues to allow open operations Jun 21 21:03:50 so the CE project can 'pretend' to be a vendor Jun 21 21:04:06 a kickstart proto-vendor! Jun 21 21:04:11 can say "hey guys, if you join meego, this is how you'll be treated" Jun 21 21:04:21 (currently ignored and sidelined ;) ) Jun 21 21:04:40 (small exagerration there) Jun 21 21:04:42 not ignored! Jun 21 21:04:56 the nokia meego is boiled down goodness from all the community ideas Jun 21 21:05:14 lcuk: what makes you say that? Jun 21 21:05:21 OTOH talk to them about why CE and UX have different policies for release-blocker bugs Jun 21 21:05:32 i see elements from contributions I see from most people around in it Jun 21 21:05:49 RST38h, half of the layouts are polished up from things wazd posted etc Jun 21 21:05:53 mooouuhh Jun 21 21:06:08 lcuk: mmm not sure I'd tout that as "a good thing" Jun 21 21:06:11 And they stole my qml dialer Jun 21 21:06:17 I'm just kidding Jun 21 21:06:29 unless royalties are flowing or they released under cc-sa Jun 21 21:06:31 alterego: sue them! this could you get a headstart in the race to the developer n950! Jun 21 21:06:42 lbt_nur, I am going to be reminded every day of my graffiti wall on that ui Jun 21 21:06:51 because that is the app list Jun 21 21:06:52 They stole Columbus' swipe though :) Jun 21 21:07:22 your latest app is in the top left Jun 21 21:07:27 ;) Jun 21 21:07:42 was amongst the first thing I said when I showed very first liqbase video Jun 21 21:08:02 android swipe you mean? Jun 21 21:08:03 I only want the N9 to play nagry birds on it Jun 21 21:08:16 angry ~ Jun 21 21:08:58 lbt_nur, but that is "open source" isn't it? Jun 21 21:09:22 lcuk: no, that's bsd-licensed Jun 21 21:09:26 alterego: I'd prefer an iPad 2 with mirror display for angry birds :D Jun 21 21:09:41 lbt_nur, I saw a windows phone ui written in qml Jun 21 21:09:46 Still banned here I presume? Jun 21 21:09:48 quick mockup Jun 21 21:09:57 sure ... qml is LGPL Jun 21 21:10:04 ipads are shit Jun 21 21:10:18 A tablet without a USB port, pfft. Jun 21 21:10:23 and anyhow ... we're talking ideas, design... not code Jun 21 21:10:25 i mean that in the, somebody just wrote one and made his symbian phone look likq wp Jun 21 21:10:29 alterego: it has its own peripherals port Jun 21 21:10:30 mm yeah Jun 21 21:10:32 I agree Jun 21 21:10:33 alterego: propietary Jun 21 21:10:45 lcuk: that was cool :) Jun 21 21:11:10 javispedro: that doesn't help me copy or view images from my memory stick does it Jun 21 21:11:17 Or my SD cards. Jun 21 21:11:18 alterego: oh it does Jun 21 21:11:27 lbt_nur, i believe in fairness and there should be a way to do things without patents Jun 21 21:11:37 alterego: but you enter a world of vendor lock-in, etc. etc. Jun 21 21:11:38 but I very well may be patenting many things in the near future Jun 21 21:11:43 alterego: see http://www.crunchgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/adapters.jpg Jun 21 21:11:50 i have a whole warhouse of unpublished code Jun 21 21:11:57 warehouse even ;) Jun 21 21:12:07 lcuk: as good a way to waste money as doing the lottery I guess Jun 21 21:12:09 lcuk: patent where? We don't have s/w patents in Europe ;) Jun 21 21:12:22 lcuk: let's just hope that code doesn't violate existing patents :) Jun 21 21:12:30 I'm pretty happy with prior art, I'd only patent something if I could resell it, to a lot of people. Jun 21 21:12:42 alterego, tell that to people who write uk employment contracts then Jun 21 21:13:19 Stskeeps: Did you have a "MeeGo Compliant" app in mind, btw for your Harmattan compatibility challenge? Jun 21 21:13:50 but anyway, I need to find a way where I can concntrate on producing apps from my sketches Jun 21 21:14:10 I see a need to make qt based implementation of a couple of key things to allow me to do this Jun 21 21:14:38 You need some framework code ported to Qt you mean? Jun 21 21:14:52 Anyone here with ops? Jun 21 21:15:55 Does anyone want to drop a 4 month old ban on DrGov? Jun 21 21:16:00 DrGrov even. Jun 21 21:16:06 Thanks alterego Jun 21 21:16:27 is there any workaround for the crash when no sound card is available? ( https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11367 ) Jun 21 21:16:30 Bug 11367 cri, High, ---, kevron_m_rees, VERI FIXED, sysuid crashed if there is no sound hardware available, and caused duihome to crash (black screen in Jun 21 21:16:46 I have many "end user" questsion, where can I get answers ? Jun 21 21:17:55 nn Jun 21 21:19:38 DawnFoster: do you have #meego ops? Jun 21 21:19:56 alterego: yep Jun 21 21:20:12 Could you unban DrGrov? Jun 21 21:20:24 He had a 4 month ago ban for acting out after Feb 11 Jun 21 21:20:30 He's very sorry :) Jun 21 21:20:39 ha :) Jun 21 21:21:09 hmmm, I never really *un*ban people Jun 21 21:21:17 and I'm in the middle of something Jun 21 21:21:22 m'kay Jun 21 21:21:23 volunteer? Jun 21 21:22:17 Jaffa: ffs... just read your LWN post Jun 21 21:23:36 lbt_nur: Not good? Jun 21 21:23:42 yours was Jun 21 21:23:55 the "lets kill meego" post wasn't so much Jun 21 21:24:25 s/kill/damage/ Jun 21 21:24:25 lbt_nur meant: the "lets damage meego" post wasn't so much Jun 21 21:24:27 lbt_nur: just grab until engadget runs it Jun 21 21:24:35 s/grab/wait Jun 21 21:24:40 Kill! Kill! Jun 21 21:24:53 yep .... "MeeGo architect rejects Nokia devices" Jun 21 21:25:14 It only makes sense. Jun 21 21:25:17 N9 is *not* a mass market device ... Jun 21 21:25:26 N9 is *not* a mass market MeeGo device ... Jun 21 21:25:42 the ... WeTb is ... Jun 21 21:26:02 goddam laptop is a pita for typing ... I'll shut up now Jun 21 21:26:07 ...poorly received in its only market (.de) Jun 21 21:26:28 on top of the fact that handsets are absolutely not tablets Jun 21 21:26:40 So, once again, what is all that controversy about "rejecting" N9? Jun 21 21:26:42 yeah... who needs mass market appeal to succceed? we have systemd!!! Jun 21 21:26:58 And there is mpre doversoty on handsets than tablets in terms of acceptable OSes Jun 21 21:27:03 N9? What do you guys think about it? Jun 21 21:27:12 https://lwn.net/Articles/448590/ Jun 21 21:27:19 RST38h, that MeeGo.com (particularly people from Intel) seem to want to have nothing to do with Nokia and the N9. Jun 21 21:27:22 Silly iPad keyboard in SSH app Jun 21 21:27:40 GeneralAntilles: That's overly harsh Jun 21 21:27:53 RST38h: we have a phrase "Cutting your nose off to spite your face" Jun 21 21:28:14 Jaffa, probably. Jun 21 21:28:22 * GeneralAntilles will leave it to better folks to discuss. Jun 21 21:28:31 With all due respect, the proper-meego.com people have nothing to say until there is at least one usable handset running proper-meego. Jun 21 21:29:05 GeneralAntilles: But arjan's pretty aenior in the project & Intel, so it's unfortunate he doesn't seem to be on-board Jun 21 21:29:24 Until then, Maemo6 is the closest it gets to Meego right now =( Jun 21 21:29:55 Although yes, I also think Nokia should have continue calling it Maemo6, to make it clear what the device is based on. Jun 21 21:30:38 mmm hindsight makes you wonder if Ari's comment at the time wasn't a "mistake" Jun 21 21:31:07 RST38h: absolutely, but I'm trying to see the positive side too Jun 21 21:31:25 RST38h: now I can call anything I want MeeGo, compliance? what is that? Jun 21 21:31:52 dm8tbr: no, you can't. unless you suddenly became the linux foundation. Jun 21 21:31:52 it's funny how people inside nokia even don't know what's the difference between maemo and meego Jun 21 21:31:55 dm8tbr: Reality check: how many normal people really care about "meego compliance"? Jun 21 21:32:10 well the people doing it know, but the rest of the company not Jun 21 21:32:20 toninikkanen: I hope by "some people" you mean the janitor and dinner lady :P Jun 21 21:32:37 dm8tr: 2nd check: how many regular app developers care if their hardwre is "meego compliant", as long as they can use it to develop meego apps? Jun 21 21:32:39 wmarone: MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan, that is 'anything' but certainly not compliant Jun 21 21:32:41 by some people i mean most Jun 21 21:32:44 DrGrov: welcome back ;) Jun 21 21:32:58 alterego: Thank you, appreciated it Jun 21 21:33:02 alterego: :) Jun 21 21:33:03 dm8tbr: certainly, but only the Linux Foundation can grant license to use it (or exceptions) Jun 21 21:33:21 and they aren't obligated to grant another Jun 21 21:33:39 wmarone: sure, the impression sticks though Jun 21 21:33:46 And, once you collect all theinterested parties, you will pretty much get 1) Intel Meego developers 2) A few Linux FOundation people 3) assorted wikipedia nuts Jun 21 21:33:48 compliance pah Jun 21 21:34:40 ah, this reminds me I need to spam a wikipedia deletion vote Jun 21 21:34:47 is this like lsb compliance which seemed to require cups be installed and libgl.so even on a minute headless server install? Jun 21 21:35:59 Damion_: no it's the nokia can ignore compliance and stick meego on a turd Jun 21 21:36:26 Damion_: and be rpm-based ;P Jun 21 21:36:39 Damion_: and use sysvinit ;P Jun 21 21:37:27 So, what is wrong with sticking meego on a turd? Other than negative publicity, I mean? Jun 21 21:37:31 dm8tbr: The N9/Harmattan is a "turd"? Jun 21 21:37:47 Jaffa: no, I didn't say that, you read it that way Jun 21 21:37:54 lbt_nur: Which comment of Ari's? Jun 21 21:37:59 javispedro: back to sysvinit? what was up with eventd or whatever you call the new way of doing things ? Jun 21 21:38:22 Jaffa: I said 'Nokia can stick meego on ANYTHING without it being compliant' Jun 21 21:38:25 Damion_: LSB mandates sysvinit initscripts Jun 21 21:38:34 dm8tbr: Well, it doean't lokk like Nokia will be doing much else with MeeGo in the short term, so you must have meant someth... ah Jun 21 21:38:37 Damion_: just using it as another example of ridiculousness Jun 21 21:38:43 I've got used to apt-get but frankly rpm vs deb doesn't make much difference as a user since yum started to do what apt does Jun 21 21:38:55 javispedro: ah Jun 21 21:39:06 Jaffa: just calling H 'MeeGo Jun 21 21:39:15 Jaffa: the current hardware is nice, but calling the software meego instead of maemo6 is a stretch Jun 21 21:39:19 lbt_nur: Ah Jun 21 21:39:37 why are you all being a bunch of pedantic doinks? Jun 21 21:39:44 dm8tbr: Not much of one and, IMHO, a stretch which is beneficial to MeeGo Jun 21 21:39:55 * andre__ gets some popcorn and watches the channel Jun 21 21:40:12 Nokia finishes an engineering and release cycle, and gets bashed for it. Jun 21 21:40:15 Jaffa: my opinion differs, but I gues only time will tell Jun 21 21:40:42 somebody must have already compiled meego-terminal and uploaded an http served .deb so I don't have to Jun 21 21:40:46 Why wouldn't you leverage this. Jun 21 21:40:52 dm8tbr:My comment on LWN explains my reasoning a little, but it's bed time now Jun 21 21:40:56 ENGADGET gave it a positive writeup. Jun 21 21:41:03 /ENGADGET/ Jun 21 21:41:04 Got up early :) Jun 21 21:41:05 yes Jun 21 21:41:06 I've git cloned the latest code but now I have to crosscompile and faff, come on! Jun 21 21:41:09 they did Jun 21 21:41:12 that's a big boost Jun 21 21:41:12 yeah, something is wrong here Jun 21 21:41:32 andre__: Larks' tongues. Otters' noses. Ocelot spleens! Jun 21 21:41:47 GeneralAntilles: Maybe only so they cpuld bash Nokia over the core strategy of WP7 Jun 21 21:41:47 seriously, you all are incredibly self destructive.. take Nokia's N9 for what it is...a meego compatible device. Jun 21 21:42:06 dm8tbr: yeah, life can be dangerous :) Jun 21 21:42:11 Jaffa, really think they're smart enough to concoct something like that? ;) Jun 21 21:42:17 TSCHAKeee: The word "all" there seems remarkably misplaced Jun 21 21:42:28 Jaffa: +1 Jun 21 21:42:30 GeneralAntilles: They're not The Register... Jun 21 21:44:04 TSCHAKeee: is it compatible? or do you mean /usr/bin/alien ./meego-app.rpm && dpkg -i ./meego-app.deb ? :) Jun 21 21:44:16 Jaffa: ah, I see Dawn is going for the "death by planning" approach to the mail<->forum problem Jun 21 21:44:18 Interestingly the blogger who wrote up those silly pieces on the MeeGo conferences is, apparently, the son of The Register founder Mike Magee. Jun 21 21:44:21 those things can be dealt with. Jun 21 21:45:22 TSCHAKeee: well yeah, such as that. personally I don't care, I still call things Linux rather than by their disribution name. And I actively object to "GNU/Linux" Jun 21 21:46:08 TSCHAKeee: I think you're misreading it ... most people here are doing that."N9 is good" .... one senior bod in MeeGo.com came out with the negativity... loudly and in public Jun 21 21:46:26 Damion_: GNU/Linux is correct Jun 21 21:46:33 lbt_nur: Yes. I read. that is insanely self destructive. Jun 21 21:46:38 lbt_nur: for some value of correct Jun 21 21:46:47 Damion_: the right one ;) Jun 21 21:46:56 it serves no purpose other than to divide people Jun 21 21:46:59 TSCHAKeee: and that's the point ... Jun 21 21:47:08 I think Jaffa is notifying Imad Jun 21 21:47:09 back when stallman was touting it as the term to use, my CPU was running through VERY little GNU project code most of the time Jun 21 21:47:21 we should raise this at the very next TSG ..... ROFL Jun 21 21:47:36 heck it wasn't even part of the GNU project initially, just licenced with it Jun 21 21:47:42 Damion_: sorry, it was too good a line to miss ;) Jun 21 21:47:59 you can let it go now :D Jun 21 21:48:05 breathe again Jun 21 21:48:12 :) Jun 21 21:50:51 so back to my problem. Jun 21 21:53:33 I have an n950 but it's useless to me without a way to ssh. I understand that with the option for installing from elsewhere enabled (which it is via settings), I can go to a url with a .deb and (presumably with the correct mime-type) download and it'll let me install. I want meego-terminal. So I've git clone'd meego-terminal and now have the src. Great. Am I expected to get a VM image of the build env, run a VM (vmware/whatever) build the binaries, Jun 21 21:54:53 Damion_: Hmm, would assume there's a pre-built deb somewhere. Jun 21 21:55:08 yes, I would, but bing can't find it Jun 21 21:55:17 I'll try altavista Jun 21 21:55:21 Damion_: The FRemantle openssh-server might also work Jun 21 21:55:24 so are we going to be forced to pass .deb files around or is there a repository with this stuff in it? Jun 21 21:55:41 Damion_: ask achipa or vivainio or someone for a deb? Jun 21 21:55:49 note that /etc/event.d is now /etc/init Jun 21 21:56:17 wmarone: Damion_ And javispedro has scratchbox up & running ;) Jun 21 21:56:23 Damion_: the .deb is probably in the harmattan repositories .. Jun 21 21:57:16 Jaffa: is it upstart, or am I thinking of macos? Jun 21 21:57:49 Jaffa: yeah I had a scratchbox env for fremantle Jun 21 21:57:51 It is upstart Jun 21 21:58:11 err.... OBS Jun 21 21:58:14 but that was a year ago and I don't think I can boot vmware on the beta kernel work are making me try Jun 21 21:58:43 Rubbish vm software then :P Jun 21 21:58:48 KLKind of makes yVMs pointless. Jun 21 21:58:49 this reminds me Jun 21 21:58:58 Damion_: Jaffa, OBS builds Harmattan and publishes repos... Apps, PPAs etc Jun 21 21:58:59 I need a COBS account (finally!) Jun 21 21:59:03 alterego: newfangled stuff :) Jun 21 21:59:13 I still think of cups and alsa as newfangled Jun 21 21:59:45 javispedro: you know the drill Jun 21 22:00:36 lbt_nur: the drill is this I need to file a bug thing? Jun 21 22:00:40 jav hahah Jun 21 22:00:51 javispedro: haha, welcome to the dark side :P Jun 21 22:01:04 javispedro: no... just your meego.com account Jun 21 22:02:02 lbt_nur: ah, I see. I want COBS, I want it to do OSS dev, and my meego.com username is "javispedro" Jun 21 22:02:37 yep ... just wanted the account ... a lot don't match irc nicks Jun 21 22:02:42 OBS? Jun 21 22:03:18 OBS publishes to PPAs? sweet! Jun 21 22:03:20 http://wiki.meego.com/OBS Jun 21 22:03:24 MohammadAG: yup Jun 21 22:04:03 Damion_: kinda like autobuilder++ Jun 21 22:04:07 alterego: well, the dark side powerful is, I have to admit. Jun 21 22:04:37 lbt_nur: ah Jun 21 22:04:45 the idea of having to add yet another set of m4 macros to my debian/control files for another maemo version scares me. a lot. Jun 21 22:05:08 specially if we start talking about directories being moved. Jun 21 22:09:50 hi Jun 21 22:14:49 Harmattan SDK 50% ... Jun 21 22:15:49 platform or qt? Jun 21 22:15:57 platform Jun 21 22:16:02 Already got the Qt SDK Jun 21 22:16:08 alterego: welcome to the light side! Jun 21 22:16:31 Well, in the absence of a device, I want the emulator so I can see what's inside it :P Jun 21 22:16:38 sbox is not an emulator!! Jun 21 22:16:47 Some of it is :P Jun 21 22:16:53 technically madde comes with one true emulator Jun 21 22:17:02 Does it? Jun 21 22:17:15 afaik, yes. Jun 21 22:17:19 Does the harmattan qt sdk have decent emulation support? :) Jun 21 22:17:43 Anyway, scratchbox will be as close to running the thing as I can get right now I reckon Jun 21 22:17:57 Might install it on my exo and see how well it works with a touch screen ;) Jun 21 22:18:32 while I can make sbox have decent performance ( I have some crap here that requires patches to xorg itself =) ), gettign decent performance out of qemu is over me Jun 21 22:19:27 alterego: btw this is what you're going to get with SDK: http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/harmattansdk/sdk1.png so don't get too excited. Jun 21 22:19:45 (platform SD) Jun 21 22:19:47 *SDK Jun 21 22:20:02 What, no xterm?! Jun 21 22:20:04 ;) Jun 21 22:20:14 meego-terminal wasn't on the repos :S Jun 21 22:20:25 javispedro: I'm more interested in the middle ware anyway. Jun 21 22:20:33 You're shitting me, realy? Jun 21 22:20:43 I'd have expected that to be in there already .. Jun 21 22:20:52 but you can compile it yourself? Jun 21 22:21:01 alterego: qemu image might have more stuff. this is same story as with n900. Jun 21 22:21:09 qemu/madde image, I mean Jun 21 22:21:31 I could have sworn my fremantle sbox install has xterm :) Jun 21 22:21:44 Anyway, like I said, I'm more interested in the middle ware, Jun 21 22:21:56 qt components, and qwidget, for porting columbus to harmattan Jun 21 22:22:28 Harmattan is a good half-way house for getting Columbus in MeeGo proper from fremantle Jun 21 22:23:09 Just realised, we''ve lost CIR capability too Jun 21 22:23:16 CIR? Jun 21 22:23:17 sbox using qemu for binary translation, it's emulatoreque Jun 21 22:23:26 But we have gained (I think) a somewhat easier USB solution Jun 21 22:23:32 no Xbox remote :P Jun 21 22:23:35 how does one convert between rpm style changelog and deb style changeslot ? Jun 21 22:23:43 and as it's in a unix system with X11 and ttys and suchlike it's essentially just like being in an emulated environment Jun 21 22:23:48 Damion_: the qemu stuff in sbox is utterly broken for any UI use. Jun 21 22:23:49 s/changeslot/changelog/ Jun 21 22:23:49 berndhs meant: how does one convert between rpm style changelog and deb style changelog ? Jun 21 22:23:51 MohammadAG: indeed, I guess I'll have to keep one of my N900s after all ;) Jun 21 22:23:57 javispedro: yeah? Jun 21 22:24:02 Damion_: so when people say the "emulated environment" it's not qemu so Jun 21 22:24:06 sbox is not an emulator. Jun 21 22:24:07 well I got it working the other way round :) Jun 21 22:24:07 MohammadAG: I'll probably write a network transparent UI for it ;) Jun 21 22:24:18 alterego, or sell the Xbox :P Jun 21 22:24:30 pfft Jun 21 22:24:44 The XBox is awesome, and it'll integrate with my WP7 phone :P Jun 21 22:24:51 qemu-user running x86 stuff on arm talking to /tmp/.X11/X0 worked for UI stuff Jun 21 22:25:06 alterego, or sell the Xbox :P Jun 21 22:25:13 err, damn up + enter Jun 21 22:25:25 * MohammadAG isn't typing what he typed again Jun 21 22:25:35 Heh Jun 21 22:25:50 wb DawnFoster Jun 21 22:25:53 hi Jun 21 22:26:12 thanks - had to unexpectedly drop offline Jun 21 22:26:14 MohammadAG: so, for a head start, do you want to start working on the Harmattan CSSU now? Jun 21 22:26:29 at a conference & friend's computer freaked out, so he borrowed mine Jun 21 22:26:42 alterego, maybe, when I have a device :P Jun 21 22:26:42 Heh Jun 21 22:26:48 alterego: did you get that guy unbanned? Jun 21 22:27:01 DawnFoster: yeah, did it then deop'd myself, thanks :) Jun 21 22:27:16 yeah, I saw that - thanks :) Jun 21 22:27:21 s/when/if :P Jun 21 22:27:33 MohammadAG: did you sign up? Jun 21 22:27:40 alterego, yeah Jun 21 22:27:50 You will definitely get one I'm sure, but it does mean you'll have to do a bit more MeeGo stuff :P Jun 21 22:27:52 alterego: and thanks for helping out! Jun 21 22:28:09 DawnFoster: I am here to help :P Jun 21 22:28:21 alterego, as long as plain Qt is themed, I'm happy with it :P Jun 21 22:28:59 Heh Jun 21 22:29:24 I'm hoping the fast track a device to me. Jun 21 22:29:28 or maybe I'll switch to QML then, 512MBs of RAM make my argument invalid, in a way :P Jun 21 22:29:30 s/the/they/ Jun 21 22:29:32 alterego meant: I'm hoping they fast track a device to me. Jun 21 22:29:43 Erm, they have 1G RAM Jun 21 22:29:51 err, what? Jun 21 22:29:59 1GB of soldered RAM? Jun 21 22:30:13 n9 does Jun 21 22:30:15 No, 1G of RAM hanging out the side on a peice of string :P Jun 21 22:30:17 dunno about n950 Jun 21 22:30:32 The N950s that they'll be distribution to developers have 1G of RAM Jun 21 22:30:43 alterego, oh, the new kind then :P Jun 21 22:30:44 ~distributed, I'm getting a bit tired now ;) Jun 21 22:31:01 ffs, distributing! Jun 21 22:31:08 the new rubbery black ones ? Jun 21 22:31:12 cool, I thought they had 512 soldered + 512 swap Jun 21 22:31:13 I can spell, I'm just using the wrong words :) Jun 21 22:31:28 MohammadAG: what made you think that? :P Jun 21 22:31:35 no the new ones with RAM hanging from the side Jun 21 22:32:00 afaict, the only hardware difference is basically the N9 has a slightly better magnetometer and NFC Jun 21 22:32:08 alterego, haven't looked at the spec sheet, only know it has a 4" screen and 1.0GHz :P Jun 21 22:32:18 And it seems we're quite likely to have FM RX & TX Jun 21 22:32:32 NFC on the N950 would've been cool, more chances for devs to make nfc apps Jun 21 22:32:43 Indeed Jun 21 22:32:46 what is the big deal with nfc all of a sudden? Jun 21 22:32:50 I thought the FCC pages mentioned otherwise Jun 21 22:32:52 (FMTX) Jun 21 22:32:52 Maybe we can make an NFC binary compatible FM based NFC clone ;) Jun 21 22:32:57 it's just what some .jp people used to buy stuff in Japan Jun 21 22:33:14 Damion_: sure, and I'd like to go there one day :P Jun 21 22:33:17 it's like very weak bluetooth, but still enough to eat battery Jun 21 22:33:27 alterego: on spain at least n900 officialy has "1GiB application memory" Jun 21 22:33:31 Not really .. Jun 21 22:33:35 alterego: well there is no guarentee you'll get the app that lets you have money on yours Jun 21 22:33:49 Damion_: I was sold on the passive rfc tags idea Jun 21 22:33:51 javispedro: you mean the spec on nokia.com? Jun 21 22:33:55 alterego: yes Jun 21 22:34:01 javispedro: sure, same everywhere, but application memory is not RAM Jun 21 22:34:06 Which it explicitly states. Jun 21 22:34:11 alterego: "lie me once, ..." Jun 21 22:34:16 javispedro: there are passive QR labels, easier to spot too Jun 21 22:34:25 and don't eat battery Jun 21 22:34:30 javispedro: they used a tricky marketting loop hole that was misleading sure. Jun 21 22:34:31 Damion_: au the contraire Jun 21 22:34:45 Damion_: camera on = horrible battery life Jun 21 22:34:48 I think scanning a few QR codes would eat a lot more than having NFC on Jun 21 22:34:55 I'm more excited about BT4.0 Jun 21 22:35:07 Heh the N9 doesn't even have BT3 :P Jun 21 22:35:17 1% of the power usage of BT Jun 21 22:35:29 80% done .. Jun 21 22:35:32 I read the wikipedia article today, sounds very useful Jun 21 22:36:13 javispedro: yes when you turn it on for a moment. The nfc is on most of the time normally (I guess you could turn it on and offm, but that gains you little). Jun 21 22:36:36 basically my wife's NexusS had to have NFC off, as a) nothing uses it yet, b) it definitely decreased battery life Jun 21 22:37:06 Damion_: I plan on making some NFC hot points in my house :) Jun 21 22:37:23 once the qr/nfc tag is read what happens is typically a 3G connection and web experience eating much more, my point is leaving nfc on 24x7 Jun 21 22:37:28 Don't know what I'll make them do, maybe control home automation for turning TV on when I sit on couch and put N9 on chair arm Jun 21 22:37:56 If it's on it's pad on my desk it turns on my desk light if it's getting near sunset Jun 21 22:38:22 When I put it on my bed side table it dims the lights and gives me manual light control for going to sleep, and sets up alarm in the morning to wake me up to go to work. Jun 21 22:38:57 When I get into work, it'll automatically open work portal and email. Jun 21 22:39:07 And make me a coffee, Jun 21 22:39:16 you know buttons would do this, put the phonedown on a button ;) Jun 21 22:39:20 and when you enter the bathroom it will immediately $INSERT_LAME_JOKE_HERE Jun 21 22:39:33 javispedro: fall into topilet :P Jun 21 22:39:37 ~toilet Jun 21 22:39:38 i heard toilet is not here Jun 21 22:39:47 ok, I just laughed. Jun 21 22:39:51 toilet the figlet replacement? Jun 21 22:40:13 90% Jun 21 22:40:20 it was probably a mistake to install the SDK through 3G Jun 21 22:40:46 It's been going for almost an hour now :D Jun 21 22:40:58 watch until you get your at&t iBill Jun 21 22:41:24 One neat thing about the N9/(50?) is the fact it does wifi master mode for tethering .. Jun 21 22:41:26 they are already cutting down a large reservoir from the amazons to print it Jun 21 22:41:28 That's new Jun 21 22:41:53 alterego: oooh you confirmed that? Jun 21 22:41:55 alterego, isn't NFC always on? Jun 21 22:41:59 I'd need to stick my sim in to confirm Jun 21 22:42:27 MohammadAG: it's an active radio when it's in a device like the N9, I'm sure you can power it down. Jun 21 22:42:35 alterego: I talked on TMO with the dev who did the backported wifi drivers from 2.6.32 about this, as the new 80211.ko stuff should permit the same on the n900 Jun 21 22:43:05 Damnsweet, well yeah, papparantly out-of-the-box it should work. Jun 21 22:43:15 Erm, Damion_ ^ Jun 21 22:43:25 96% Jun 21 22:43:32 I'm gonna make a cup of tea Jun 21 22:45:46 I bet love is going to return to the handset ux? :) Jun 21 22:45:56 some of it at least Jun 21 22:46:04 too much of it was leaving for tablet ux ;P Jun 21 22:47:02 I hope so Jun 21 22:47:07 it's ad-hoc atm, checking... Jun 21 22:47:18 Well, we've already had a lot of love in MTF from the community Jun 21 22:48:16 I'd really like to setup a mesh network between all my devices. Jun 21 22:48:24 hmm.. why do I have a browser window with the wikipedia page on the dark side of the force open Jun 21 22:48:46 Why wouldn't you? :) Jun 21 22:49:01 oh, wtf, it's downloading the i386 rootstrap now Jun 21 22:49:08 That's another fucking 666M -_- Jun 21 22:49:15 oh, I forgot to unpack the armhf one Jun 21 22:49:22 alterego: it's Ad-Hoc Jun 21 22:49:23 er... ARMEL one (grrrrr) Jun 21 22:49:29 * alterego goes to make a coffee. Jun 21 22:49:42 ad hoc might use less battery than master Jun 21 22:49:49 Damion_: maybe you're firmware is too old ;) Jun 21 22:49:53 it'll not work with my PSP and other stuff Jun 21 22:49:56 alterego: possible Jun 21 22:49:59 sell the PSP Jun 21 22:50:03 who else checked Jun 21 22:50:10 javispedro: the n900 is too slow doing remoteplay Jun 21 22:50:18 like 5-10% the correct speed :) Jun 21 22:50:26 checked what? Jun 21 22:50:42 MohammadAG: whether the wifi tethering was adhoc or intrastructure Jun 21 22:50:44 Damion_, the remote play app? Jun 21 22:51:01 if it's Joikuspot it's adhoc I guess Jun 21 22:51:04 MohammadAG: I tried the remoteplay app and it worked but very slow Jun 21 22:51:33 it's not, it's integrated but they obviously don' bother setting the wifi mode in the revision I have Jun 21 22:52:50 Damion_, that's cause everything is loaded on the CPU, it doesn't use gstreamer Jun 21 22:53:33 it uses various libs gstreamer uses, you mean it doesn't use the hw enhanced stuff gstreamer can tie in to using the onboatd h264 decoding? Jun 21 22:53:57 yes Jun 21 22:53:58 yeah I knew why it was slow, it was impressive anyway, given some time it might be possible Jun 21 22:54:25 depends if what the psp needs, the hw can output unaided Jun 21 22:55:00 I'm really struggling to find harmhatten repositories, who was it I need to ask? Jun 21 22:56:16 Damion_: die in a fire! Jun 21 22:56:30 ;P Jun 21 22:56:55 or wait until someone else gets one =) Jun 21 22:57:13 ooh http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/ Jun 21 22:57:27 Damion_: that is SDK repo Jun 21 22:59:03 it has armel binaries Jun 21 23:00:46 SDK repos have armel binaries Jun 21 23:00:58 they come in both flavours ;P Jun 21 23:01:03 yes but it means I can try and install sometime Jun 21 23:01:14 They should install fine Jun 21 23:01:14 technically you won't find any package on it that is not on your device Jun 21 23:01:19 and it fails, "invalid installaion package" Jun 21 23:01:21 well, save binutils. Jun 21 23:01:26 and the kile. Jun 21 23:01:28 *like Jun 21 23:01:31 I have SDK stuff installed on N900 Jun 21 23:01:40 like, erm, bzip2 :) Jun 21 23:01:51 perhaps I need to switch this in to dev mode Jun 21 23:02:01 I have to ask permission of the account manger who's lent this to me Jun 21 23:04:58 * alterego likes the look of "Transfer Manager" :) Jun 21 23:05:34 the entire transparent list dialogs thing looks nice Jun 21 23:05:56 a pity this had to be done with MTF trickery instead of window manager trickery Jun 21 23:06:40 mtf? Jun 21 23:06:59 LibMotherFscking Jun 21 23:07:01 ~mtf Jun 21 23:07:01 A Microsoft Tape Format reader. URL: ftp://metalab.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/backup/mtf-0.1.src.tgz Jun 21 23:07:09 actually libmeegotouch ;) Jun 21 23:07:19 or MeegoTouchFramework Jun 21 23:07:21 ahh Jun 21 23:07:36 infobot: bad bot. Jun 21 23:07:36 Bad bot., bad! No cookie for you! Jun 21 23:08:18 application/octet-stream not supported Jun 21 23:08:46 so currently this n950 is completely useless to me Jun 21 23:09:03 Damion_: stop spoiling the fun Jun 21 23:09:04 an okay camera and okay browser but really really useless Jun 21 23:09:22 okay to be positive, the keyboard is really nice Jun 21 23:09:22 no! no! I'm not hearing! Jun 21 23:09:32 the _hardware_ keyboard? Jun 21 23:09:37 if it weren't for the keyboard it'd be useless Jun 21 23:09:46 Damion_: tell that to engadget! Jun 21 23:10:10 I particularly like that when swiping up/down/across in browser/gallery it keeps quiting said app Jun 21 23:11:19 I'm really really pi*sed off that the .mp4 files it creates don't play on the ps3 wtf Sony and Nokia, what are you doing? Jun 21 23:11:40 Damion_: fragmentation! Jun 21 23:11:42 * wmarone explodes Jun 21 23:11:43 okay the ps3 is a locked down propriatory system, but it does shed loads of formats including h264+aac normally Jun 21 23:12:11 Xvid, Mjpeg, m2ts, mp4, avi ... Jun 21 23:12:30 but not the weird mp4 format that is created by n950 and n900 Jun 21 23:12:54 well if its useless, send it to me, I'll tell you in a couple of months what its like Jun 21 23:13:06 berndhs: sadly I'm not allowed Jun 21 23:13:27 it was worth a half-hearted attempt :) Jun 21 23:13:31 I'm also hoping that if the account manager lets me put this in dev mode that I'll be able to get a shell at which point you can ignore all of the above Jun 21 23:13:52 I'm in the centre of London if anyone wants to come and play with it Jun 21 23:17:33 Erm, what are you doing Thursday evening? Jun 21 23:17:47 And would you like to come to the MeeGo Birmingham meetup (with your N950) :) Jun 21 23:17:51 after 20:00 not much Jun 21 23:17:53 Well, your colleagues :) Jun 21 23:17:55 heh Jun 21 23:18:42 I'm hoping to hear back from my contact that said he could possibly get one tomorrow, but even if it gets sent out tomorrow I don't know if it'll arrive in time :/ Jun 21 23:18:43 I've been to Birmigham new street a couple of times Jun 21 23:19:02 been to is stretching it a bit Jun 21 23:19:54 alterego: remember to hide the chloroform until he drops off his n950 lock code Jun 21 23:20:05 Heh Jun 21 23:20:06 oops. this was supposed to be a /msg. Jun 21 23:20:10 :) Jun 21 23:20:28 I have always wanted somebody to try chloroform on me, I'd struggle for a while and then fake flop Jun 21 23:20:31 I'll be getting one anyway, so it's just a matter of having one for the meetup. Jun 21 23:20:39 I think apparenly it doesn't really work and is made up for movies Jun 21 23:20:46 it's more likely yo make you extremely ill Jun 21 23:21:00 But I'm not keeping my hopes up, as time is too fine. Jun 21 23:24:13 Right, bed time for me. Jun 21 23:24:28 it's barely past midnight Jun 21 23:25:00 I have to be up at 6 :P Jun 21 23:31:43 wow, I have kids and I don't get up until after 8 :) Jun 21 23:37:46 Heh Jun 21 23:38:06 I'll talk to you all tomorrow. :) g'night Jun 22 00:01:49 If I put in a development device application for an n950, when could I expect a response? Jun 22 00:03:50 As an individual? Jun 22 00:04:05 Reportedly, they want to get them into the hands of the right people ASAP Jun 22 00:04:39 IIRC the deadline si the 28th - for applications - and for 'clear cases' - it was said that they may be shipped even before that deadline. Jun 22 00:04:41 is Jun 22 00:05:04 SpeedEvil: Thanks. Jun 22 01:59:32 my individual application said ineligable so I did company one Jun 22 02:00:02 the link simple didn't let me proceed, some sort of permission denied **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jun 22 02:59:57 2011