**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Jun 25 02:59:57 2011
Jun 25 03:32:35 <LostSoulIn> hi guys
Jun 25 03:32:52 <LostSoulIn> i am proud owner of N900
Jun 25 03:33:02 <LostSoulIn> wanted to flash meego on it
Jun 25 03:33:17 <LostSoulIn> but still confused if it will work fine
Jun 25 03:33:24 <LostSoulIn> with all features on it
Jun 25 03:33:41 <LostSoulIn> n which release to choose
Jun 25 05:58:09 <amixppc> This is so great :)
Jun 25 05:58:25 <amixppc> MeeGo on Nokia mobile, will be perfect
Jun 25 05:59:04 <amixppc> and with press saying things like "MeeGo can save Nokia"
Jun 25 05:59:19 <amixppc> <- have high hopes :)
Jun 25 06:07:00 <Cauchon> Hey
Jun 25 06:07:49 <amixppc> hello
Jun 25 06:21:19 <SpeedEvil> amixppc: hellp
Jun 25 06:21:21 <SpeedEvil> o
Jun 25 06:22:06 <Termana> morning
Jun 25 06:46:25 <Qantourisc> Does meego run fine on N900 ?
Jun 25 06:46:53 * Qantourisc is not investing in a new expensive phone if he isn't sure he will not like the software stack
Jun 25 06:48:17 <SpeedEvil> It runs.
Jun 25 06:48:31 <SpeedEvil> If it runs fine is another issue.
Jun 25 06:48:36 <SpeedEvil> It's not as polished as maemo.
Jun 25 07:28:20 * npm goes oldschool on his tablet "sudo xinit"  "env DISPLAY=:0.0 xsetroot -solid dimgrey"
Jun 25 07:45:36 <sivang> where can I donwnload the N9/950 Nokia Qt SDK?
Jun 25 07:53:12 <npm> see http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/05/23/qt-sdk-update-bringing-qt-creator-2-2-released/
Jun 25 07:54:01 <npm> http://get.qt.nokia.com/qtsdk/Qt_SDK_Lin32_offline_v1_1_1_en.run works nice on meego&fedora (had to compile/install 1.2 mobility tho)
Jun 25 07:56:52 <npm> actually i meant: http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/06/21/introducing-meego-1-2-harmattan-to-the-qt-sdk
Jun 25 09:06:42 <lbt> thp, lcuk... ping... http://wiki.meego.com/Python/Harmattan "All depending packages will be automatically installed"... AFAIK that's not going to happen in MeeGo:Apps
Jun 25 09:07:43 <lbt> My understanding is that if you want that you need to get Surrounds working and we need MeeGo:AppsPlus
Jun 25 09:51:25 <Damion> morning
Jun 25 10:03:54 <Damion> do more people have n950s yet?
Jun 25 10:05:39 <SpeedEvil> VEry few - none of the dev program has hit yet.
Jun 25 10:05:51 <SpeedEvil> I don't think anyone else has found one in a drawer.
Jun 25 10:06:02 * SpeedEvil checks nearby drawers.
Jun 25 10:17:44 <alterego> I'm sure they'll start sending them out by the end of next week.
Jun 25 10:17:51 <alterego> Or maybe the week afterl
Jun 25 10:18:40 * thiago no longer has his
Jun 25 10:18:45 <thiago> gave back yesterday
Jun 25 10:19:27 <cojack> hello
Jun 25 10:22:28 <cojack> do I do something wrong if I doesn't have "Maintain MeeGo SDK" ?
Jun 25 10:22:36 <cojack> after instalation
Jun 25 10:22:52 <thiago> after installing what?
Jun 25 10:23:00 <cojack> sdk
Jun 25 10:23:08 <Damion> alterego: the account manager said nokia were trying to throw them at her, so she's getting me another on
Jun 25 10:23:11 <Damion> e
Jun 25 10:24:16 <Damion> I gave back the one I had as she wouldn't let me update it in case it bricked it.  I needed to do that to enter dev mode which I think is a prereq to being able to install stuff off-store like a terminal
Jun 25 10:24:48 <alterego> Damion: I think you're probably right, or you have to enable it through the flasher.
Jun 25 10:25:12 <ab> Damion, you can install stuff without upgrading to dev mode, these are not connected
Jun 25 10:25:13 <alterego> Damion: get her to send me one too :P
Jun 25 10:25:53 <alterego> Think I might start working on porting Columbus today.
Jun 25 10:26:27 <Damion> ab: I tried .rpm and .deb via the browser and it was having none of it
Jun 25 10:26:27 <alterego> Would be good to get it under MeeGo handset and Harmattan hopefully if/when I get a N9(50)
Jun 25 10:26:52 <alterego> And refreshing the project under maemo 5
Jun 25 10:26:56 <Damion> alterego: she also claimed the flasher was windows only
Jun 25 10:26:57 <ab> Damion, in settings you would enable external repositories
Jun 25 10:27:03 <alterego> Sort of forcing me to do maintanence :D
Jun 25 10:27:07 <thiago> Damion: there's a Linux tool too
Jun 25 10:27:14 <ab> Damion, then you can copy a .deb package to a device via usb
Jun 25 10:27:16 <Damion> thiago: thank god
Jun 25 10:27:21 <ab> Damion, then in search you'll see it
Jun 25 10:27:23 <alterego> Damion: there's linux, windows (32/64) and os x
Jun 25 10:27:25 <ab> Damion, and click on it
Jun 25 10:27:29 <Damion> windows is banned so she had to put a special request in
Jun 25 10:27:37 <Damion> then they sent her a mac flasher
Jun 25 10:27:38 <alterego> Hahah
Jun 25 10:27:55 <ab> Damion, flasher supports linux/windows/mac
Jun 25 10:28:01 <thiago> there's the OneClickFlasher and then there's what developers use
Jun 25 10:28:01 <alterego> Damion: may I ask what you guys do at your work?
Jun 25 10:28:18 <Damion> ab: search!
Jun 25 10:28:43 <Damion> ab: I saw no file manager so didn't bother trying to just copy a .deb to the fat drive
Jun 25 10:28:50 <ab> Damion, one of those moments... :)
Jun 25 10:28:56 <Damion> so I can search device and it'll find it
Jun 25 10:30:39 <Damion> when I enabled the option to permit installs not only from the store (I only saw one option, it didn't mention repositories).  The device displayed a warning each reboot
Jun 25 10:30:57 <Damion> I might borrow it back once I find a terminal app .deb
Jun 25 10:37:47 <Damion> alterego: we do search
Jun 25 10:38:42 <Damion> and have partnerships with people who make phones so they link to our search engine, they can get revenue share on any money made if a user choses to click on an ad
Jun 25 10:38:52 <Damion> rare but in the millions is can add up.
Jun 25 10:39:16 <cojack> I have no catalog simulator
Jun 25 10:39:20 <cojack> in /opt/meego/
Jun 25 10:39:23 <cojack> ;/
Jun 25 10:47:06 <Damion> does anyone have a .deb I can d/l to give me a shell?
Jun 25 10:48:24 <cojack> guys I have problem, after create a project in the tollbar Projects, in Tab Run I have "Deploy to device:" (Invalid device)
Jun 25 10:48:45 <cojack> does any one know what is missing? (qt-creator by meego)
Jun 25 10:53:27 <Damion> sorry no, although I wqs reading this earlier this morning:  http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtcreator-2.2/creator-developing-maemo.html  which sounds relevent
Jun 25 11:20:26 <lcuk> alterego, alt-tab switching on meego *netbook*  something I complain about often.  i did some testing,  i think a trivial OpenSwipe implementation patch would work on it o_O
Jun 25 11:20:58 <lcuk> ie swipe to task switch
Jun 25 11:21:09 <lcuk> it works quite well on my ideapad
Jun 25 11:26:22 <alterego> Sounds good.
Jun 25 11:26:37 <alterego> We should work on a better netbook ux,
Jun 25 11:26:57 <alterego> I'd also like to try "swipe" style UI on tablets.
Jun 25 11:27:50 <alterego> lcuk: still no N8+book :(
Jun 25 11:28:06 <alterego> There was a delivery a minut ago but wasn't for me :(
Jun 25 11:28:17 <lcuk> alterego, liqbase.opwnswipe.diff
Jun 25 11:28:27 <lcuk> openswipe.diff rather
Jun 25 11:28:53 <lcuk> I did some checking on my ideapad and bugs aside, works quite well
Jun 25 11:29:27 <lcuk> can happily switch between any of the panels in liqbase
Jun 25 11:29:49 <alterego> The more I think about what's going on now, I'm wondering if MS made Nokia drop Linux/MeeGo in their agreement.
Jun 25 11:30:20 <alterego> (outside of the agreement Nokia is rumoured to have had with intel for the one handset)
Jun 25 11:31:16 <cojack> Could not find simulator for Qt version 4.7.2.0
Jun 25 11:31:18 <cojack> :(
Jun 25 11:31:32 <cojack> I had add the: /opt/meego/simulator-qt/bin/qmake
Jun 25 11:31:45 <cojack> and start project using this qt ;/
Jun 25 11:38:57 <lcuk> alterego, why are you pondering things that are not directly relating to MeeGo
Jun 25 11:39:40 <lcuk> better to welcome and be happy we have n9/swipe at all!
Jun 25 11:40:25 <lcuk> and to concentrate and try to make the open meego experience as polished
Jun 25 11:40:34 <lcuk> think of it as the ultimate guidebook!
Jun 25 11:41:22 <lcuk> and from technical perspective, I think the BA app on the searay is quite cool personally
Jun 25 11:41:49 <cojack> huh
Jun 25 11:44:40 <cojack> it confuse me ;/
Jun 25 11:44:54 <cojack> I have instaled everytihng by repos, why it doesn't work
Jun 25 11:45:58 <lcuk> cojack, which sdk did you stat from?
Jun 25 11:46:26 <lcuk> for example: in the Programming tab of my computer, I have 3 Qt Creators
Jun 25 11:46:44 <lcuk> only one of them works for what I want
Jun 25 11:46:44 <cojack> that's is the good one question, because how qt works and his sdk is pure and clearly to understand
Jun 25 11:46:50 <lcuk> the others miss the mark somewhat
Jun 25 11:47:30 <cojack> but how meego sdk is, working... completly make my mind overflap
Jun 25 11:47:45 <cojack> 10k versions
Jun 25 11:48:03 <lcuk> cojack, speak clearly, specifically which are you using
Jun 25 11:48:06 <cojack> wait a second, I will make a list what I have already instaled
Jun 25 11:48:59 <cojack> lcuk: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=trP0SmX8
Jun 25 11:49:22 <cojack> also qt-simulator and simulator-qt
Jun 25 11:49:27 <FIQ> just wonder, this meego SDK thing... does it still require linux? (i have linux here, no problem, just wonder)
Jun 25 11:49:35 <FIQ> as maemo did
Jun 25 11:51:22 <cojack> lcuk: and for project using qt in path: /opt/meego/simulator-qt/bin/qmake
Jun 25 11:51:59 <lcuk> cojack, where did you get the sdk from?
Jun 25 11:52:06 <snowpong> small note of warning: OTA bricked our N950
Jun 25 11:52:12 <lcuk> ie meego sdk or nokia sdk
Jun 25 11:52:31 <lcuk> snowpong, bricked is harsh term
Jun 25 11:52:37 <snowpong> lcuk: good point
Jun 25 11:52:51 <cojack> lcuk: from: deb http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/sdk/host/repos/ubuntu/10.10/
Jun 25 11:52:54 <lcuk> "reduced my facility to examine the masterpiece"
Jun 25 11:52:59 <snowpong> lcuk: we can re-flash over usb using image from developer.nokia.com
Jun 25 11:53:03 <lcuk> \o
Jun 25 11:53:19 <snowpong> lcuk: I guess it's not technically bricked before it can't be flashed in any way
Jun 25 11:53:33 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: No! It turned into a housebrick! With some algae on one face!
Jun 25 11:53:34 <lcuk> then it is merely temporarily put into museum showcase mode
Jun 25 11:53:48 <SpeedEvil> Violating the law of conservation of mass!
Jun 25 11:53:54 <SpeedEvil> Nokia pays no attention to standards.
Jun 25 11:53:57 <lcuk> with a wizard hat, some sprinkling of fairy dust etc
Jun 25 11:54:01 <lcuk> it can levitate
Jun 25 11:54:33 <snowpong> SpeedEvil: alge on one face? you've been playing too much minecraft
Jun 25 11:54:34 <cojack> lcuk: and, any idea?
Jun 25 11:55:26 <lcuk> cojack, not sure if the latest meego sdk is there
Jun 25 11:55:57 <cojack> ok, thanks anyway
Jun 25 12:21:22 <lcuk> the BA app that was demonstrated on the Nokia Windows phone, is there by chance a very similar BA app for other devices, or do Microsoft actually have a decent app in the making there?
Jun 25 12:27:10 <FIQ> lol
Jun 25 12:27:20 <FIQ> oh, wait, i was off @ scroll
Jun 25 12:27:22 <FIQ> nvm
Jun 25 12:28:34 <ShadowJK> what's BA?
Jun 25 12:30:35 <lcuk> ShadowJK, British Airways
Jun 25 12:30:47 <lcuk> there was a demo of their app on the Windows phone
Jun 25 12:31:01 <lcuk> and from integration and features it looked nice
Jun 25 12:31:12 <lcuk> just wondering whether it was a port from another platform
Jun 25 12:31:19 <lcuk> or a new app
Jun 25 12:32:17 <ShadowJK> oh is this the timetables thing...
Jun 25 12:32:43 * ShadowJK would've thought the "oooh" and "aaaah"s referred to something that could do all airlines :)
Jun 25 12:35:17 <lcuk> ahh BA have a range of apps across the range of devices
Jun 25 12:35:28 <lcuk> the iphone app has the upgrade feature
Jun 25 12:45:04 <FIQ> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/06/nokias-new-meego-based-n9-is-set-up-for-failure.ars
Jun 25 13:40:40 <lcuk> FIQ, /me dances around the chan with wkradio on
Jun 25 13:40:48 <lcuk> -FIQ,
Jun 25 14:13:45 <thebootroo_> hello
Jun 25 14:14:04 <SpeedEvil> hello
Jun 25 14:14:54 <thebootroo_> i did another update : http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=23307#post23307
Jun 25 14:15:08 <thebootroo_> and the push on the gitorious : https://gitorious.org/meego-community-mobile-ux-ng
Jun 25 14:46:27 <thebootroo_> was wondering : did someone here tested my Qt stuff from here :  https://gitorious.org/meego-community-mobile-ux-ng   ?
Jun 25 14:50:15 <lcuk> thebootroo_, people are soomewhat distrcted this weekend
Jun 25 14:50:22 * lcuk will be in hospital tomorrow
Jun 25 14:50:33 <thebootroo_> why distracted ?
Jun 25 14:51:05 <lcuk> idk some little company called Nokia published some UX guidelines
Jun 25 14:51:18 <lcuk> and a reference ux
Jun 25 14:51:34 <lcuk> have you read the published notes and seen where they can be applied on open meego?
Jun 25 14:52:04 <thebootroo_> you are tlking about harmattan guidelines ? published since thuesday
Jun 25 14:52:29 <thebootroo_> on developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux
Jun 25 14:52:51 <lcuk> yes, have you read them?
Jun 25 14:53:09 <thebootroo_> obvioulsy, in the same second they where released
Jun 25 14:53:13 <lcuk> and do any of them apply to your ux improvements
Jun 25 14:53:21 <lcuk> ok, it takes longer to read than that
Jun 25 14:53:30 <lcuk> and to digest and see what works
Jun 25 14:53:36 <lcuk> in the general sense
Jun 25 14:53:54 <thebootroo_> i had the idea of my ux before seeing them, and they are very close to the meego handset guidelines published a year ago
Jun 25 14:54:00 <lcuk> and how to integrate an app written for harmattan within open meego
Jun 25 14:54:07 <lcuk> yes of course
Jun 25 14:54:16 <lcuk> but the style guidelines are more precise
Jun 25 14:54:27 <thebootroo_> style can be changed
Jun 25 14:54:48 <thebootroo_> and harmattan lacks a titlebar with home and back button
Jun 25 14:56:11 <Venemo_N900> good afternoon
Jun 25 14:56:43 <berndhs> howdy
Jun 25 14:57:28 <Venemo_N900> I'm once again on the train, on the way home
Jun 25 14:57:47 <berndhs> lets hope the train doesn't get lost
Jun 25 14:57:55 <thebootroo_> lcuk: to answer about improving my ux, i have to say my own guidelines were ready since i own a n900 and started to make programs for it (more than a year ago)
Jun 25 14:58:37 <lcuk> sothe one thing about the harmattan guidelines is how specific to a pixel size they are
Jun 25 14:59:19 <thebootroo_> lcuk: guidelines : minimum 40px eleements, no option buttons neither checkbox, use buttons in place, 60px titlebar with home button, icon, title and back button, both portrait and landscape support, with toolbar on the right in landscape support
Jun 25 14:59:26 <berndhs> isn't that great, they give you a system with all this freedom to do what you want, and then tell you precisely what to do
Jun 25 14:59:54 <lcuk> berndhs well
Jun 25 15:00:24 <lcuk> to be fair, open source advocates say things like choice and openness are selling points
Jun 25 15:00:29 <lcuk> people *want* specific things
Jun 25 15:00:30 <FIQ> lcuk: huh?
Jun 25 15:00:32 <FIQ> oh, nvm
Jun 25 15:01:09 <lcuk> so a clean polished set of apps which follow guidelines are better than a rag tag fleet
Jun 25 15:01:09 <berndhs> i don't want to be told how to do every little thing, it makes things boring
Jun 25 15:01:20 <lcuk> berndhs, of course not
Jun 25 15:01:37 <lcuk> but better would be: the IDE/API makes it easy to input such things
Jun 25 15:01:42 <berndhs> clean and polished is one aspect, branding is another one, and branding is important
Jun 25 15:01:47 <lcuk> and *it* handles polishing and aligning
Jun 25 15:01:58 <thebootroo_> lcuk: i had already made  my own qt apps using my guidelines : http://modern-os.projects.servhome.org/mobileApps/
Jun 25 15:04:34 <lcuk> thebootroo_, but how do they fit together?
Jun 25 15:04:43 <lcuk> are they related components to a bigger idea?
Jun 25 15:05:16 <thebootroo_> lcuk: my apps integrate quite well in maemo 5, much better in meego handset, and can integrate with departing in harmattan
Jun 25 15:05:26 <Venemo_N900> mhm
Jun 25 15:05:51 <thebootroo_> lcuk: and i've made my own plain qt components that produce a good look for the apps on each plateform
Jun 25 15:06:12 <lcuk> yesthe google website app looks like google on each platform I guess
Jun 25 15:06:41 <lcuk> i got back to my computer and jake has been drawing helicopters and stars and presents
Jun 25 15:06:50 <Venemo_N900> so, what
Jun 25 15:06:57 <Venemo_N900> the guidelines are just guidelines
Jun 25 15:07:16 <lcuk> Venemo_N900, there are guidelines for many things in life Venemo_N900
Jun 25 15:07:44 * lcuk has a set of written rules for jake
Jun 25 15:08:40 <thebootroo_> since i've made my guidelines, i never produced an apps without following them : http://modern-os.projects.servhome.org/mobileApps/   apps are all looking the same, and the MobileUX from here   http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=23307#post23307  look very close too...
Jun 25 15:09:06 <Venemo_N900> lcuk, indeed
Jun 25 15:09:41 <Venemo_N900> lcuk, what I wanted to say is that noone holds a gun against your head to obey the guidelines.
Jun 25 15:09:55 <Venemo_N900> they are good to have if you need guidance
Jun 25 15:10:39 <SpeedEvil> Venemo_N900: Actually - I've been employed by Nokia for that very purpose.
Jun 25 15:10:50 * SpeedEvil brandishes a super-soaker full of ketchup.
Jun 25 15:11:16 <Venemo_N900> SpeedEvil, for enforcing the harmattan guidelines on community app devs?
Jun 25 15:11:54 <lcuk> Venemo_N900, who said enforcing?
Jun 25 15:11:57 * SpeedEvil decides to quit, and uses the ketchup for a sandwitch.
Jun 25 15:12:19 <thebootroo_> Venemo_N900: they are good, why not use them ? we could adapt them a little (very little)...
Jun 25 15:13:32 <Venemo_N900> thebootroo_, I didn't sey they are not god
Jun 25 15:13:38 <Venemo_N900> actually I did read through them
Jun 25 15:14:01 <Venemo_N900> my favourite part is where they are giving advice about what kind of lanuage to use
Jun 25 15:14:40 <Venemo_N900> but, if for a specific app/game the guidelies are not applicable, then I don't see a problem with disobeying them.
Jun 25 15:15:25 <thebootroo_> Venemo_N900: you CAN disobey but you SHOULD not so do only if there is no other solution (its the principe of a guideline)
Jun 25 15:16:07 <Venemo_N900> thebootroo_, isn't that exactly what I said?
Jun 25 15:16:16 <thebootroo_> yes inded
Jun 25 15:16:19 <javispedro> there are guidelines for games =)
Jun 25 15:16:27 <berndhs> I think overly specific guidelines limit people's thinking
Jun 25 15:16:30 <thebootroo_> javispedro: where ?
Jun 25 15:16:32 <Venemo_N900> :)
Jun 25 15:16:48 <javispedro> many examples in harmattan ui ones.
Jun 25 15:17:17 <lcuk> berndhs, reading them is important for the reason only: even if you cannot follow them, knowing the scope and range of what you should think about to produce an app is important
Jun 25 15:17:28 <lcuk> and the best thing is they are presented well
Jun 25 15:17:33 <Venemo_N900> lcuk ++
Jun 25 15:17:41 <berndhs> oh sure they have many advantages
Jun 25 15:18:21 <berndhs> but they have disadvantages as well, mostly along the lines that people stop thinking and just follow the guidelines
Jun 25 15:19:14 <berndhs> so you get nice uniformity, less friction between different apps, but also less variety
Jun 25 15:19:28 <lcuk> project_42
Jun 25 15:19:29 <thebootroo_> berndhs: at least this way we can be sure that good devs who are poor ui designer will produce good looking soft if they follow without thniking
Jun 25 15:19:35 <lcuk> :)
Jun 25 15:19:42 <Venemo_N900> thebootroo_ ++
Jun 25 15:19:57 * TSCHAKeee chuckles
Jun 25 15:19:58 <lcuk> berndhs, did you see the screenshot I took when I wrote down your suggestion?
Jun 25 15:20:10 <berndhs> you also get bad devs making apps that look good
Jun 25 15:20:16 <lcuk> what I was seeing when you suggested the name
Jun 25 15:20:25 <thebootroo_> berndhs: ++
Jun 25 15:20:31 <berndhs> yeah I saw yoiu followed my "creative" idea :)
Jun 25 15:20:42 <lcuk> lol
Jun 25 15:20:44 <lcuk> http://liqbase.net/liq.20110623_015300.liqbase-playground.scr.png
Jun 25 15:20:58 <lcuk> i just wrote the placeholder for the app
Jun 25 15:21:11 <alterego> I didn't realise they had a Qemu harmattan image.
Jun 25 15:21:12 <alterego> That's cool
Jun 25 15:21:26 <lcuk> combining it with a good solid set of guidelines should make for super awesomeness
Jun 25 15:21:29 <thebootroo_> alterego: quite slow though
Jun 25 15:21:38 <alterego> "404 not found" -_-
Jun 25 15:21:48 <lcuk> first time I saw fremantle
Jun 25 15:21:50 <javispedro> alterego: if you get to know how to enable qemugl on it tell me...
Jun 25 15:21:53 <lcuk> was via vnc
Jun 25 15:21:55 <lcuk> on my n810
Jun 25 15:22:00 <lcuk> run qemu on desktop
Jun 25 15:22:03 <lcuk> vnc to n900
Jun 25 15:22:09 <alterego> javispedro: my qemu should already have gl acceleration
Jun 25 15:22:11 <lcuk> have harmattan on your device
Jun 25 15:22:14 <lcuk> to test
Jun 25 15:22:15 <alterego> But if I can't download the image ;)
Jun 25 15:22:29 <javispedro> alterego: I said "on it" =)
Jun 25 15:22:47 <javispedro> for some rason I can't get to, no comment on why, and strace shows it opens the proper libs
Jun 25 15:23:44 <alterego> I can't find the Xephyr command line you're supposed to use.
Jun 25 15:23:49 <alterego> Mine's not working so well.
Jun 25 15:25:18 <lcuk> that is known as qoles trick btw
Jun 25 15:25:48 <javispedro> xephyr?
Jun 25 15:25:56 <javispedro> I though you were talking about qemu, alterego.
Jun 25 15:26:11 <alterego> No, I was going to use that, but I can't downlooad the image
Jun 25 15:26:15 <alterego> "404 Not Found"
Jun 25 15:26:30 <javispedro> it comes in the qt sdk also
Jun 25 15:26:37 <alterego> So I'm using the scratchbox SDK at the moment and wondering where in the documentation it shows you how to launch xephyr.
Jun 25 15:26:37 <javispedro> so you can get it via harmattan qt sdk
Jun 25 15:26:52 <alterego> Oh, cool
Jun 25 15:26:58 <javispedro> alterego: http://pastebin.com/cS5MA88D see last lines
Jun 25 15:27:01 <alterego> Regardless, still want Xephyr command line :P
Jun 25 15:27:18 <Venemo_N900> alterego, 'Xephyr --help' ?
Jun 25 15:27:18 <alterego> Ah, thanks :)
Jun 25 15:27:30 <alterego> Venemo_N900: that doesn't help.
Jun 25 15:29:34 <Venemo_N900> :(
Jun 25 15:29:44 <lcuk> morning khertan_
Jun 25 15:29:50 <khertan_> Hello :)
Jun 25 15:29:56 <Venemo_N900> hey
Jun 25 15:29:59 <khertan_> it s not any more the morning here :)
Jun 25 15:30:37 <thebootroo_> it 5:30 PM here (france)
Jun 25 15:30:42 <khertan_> Stskeeps|holiday, Harmattan sdk meegotouch style have the same bugs than the meego ce one on scoller overshooting
Jun 25 15:30:59 <khertan_> 17:28 in france we count in 24 hours
Jun 25 15:31:03 <khertan_> ... :)
Jun 25 15:31:42 <thebootroo_> khertan_: yes but not everybody understands this notation so i write in 12hg
Jun 25 15:32:02 <khertan_> thebootroo_, yep ... but lcuk does :)
Jun 25 15:32:16 <alterego> Still runs like scht
Jun 25 15:32:22 <lcuk> i understand english time
Jun 25 15:33:02 <lcuk> http://liqbase.net/liq.20110531_223403.ciroclock_minutes_12h_time.scr.png
Jun 25 15:33:10 * khertan_ think that the overshooting bug on meegotouch look like the same as the qt4.6 one
Jun 25 15:34:33 <alterego> Weird, there's even a deadline on submission requests for the N950 through launchpad (31st July)
Jun 25 15:34:48 <javispedro> alterego: I never knew how to make xephyr use its own indicrect GL support. Personally I use vmgl, it makes it snappy, but it is a pain to install and some animations seem to b emissing (screen goes dark)
Jun 25 15:34:55 <Venemo_N900> alterego, community deadline is 28th june
Jun 25 15:35:09 <khertan_> alterego, ... i ve push a submission ... but it validate it before i finish to enter text
Jun 25 15:35:16 <khertan_> and can't edit it
Jun 25 15:35:18 <khertan_> :(
Jun 25 15:35:26 <lcuk> so make a ne wone
Jun 25 15:35:31 <lcuk> so make a new one
Jun 25 15:35:33 <thebootroo_> werll, hope i will get mine soon
Jun 25 15:35:33 <lcuk> rather
Jun 25 15:35:38 <javispedro> don't complain, my launchpad application has been in limbo since january and support is not answering my emails =)
Jun 25 15:35:44 <alterego> Venemo_N900: I know,
Jun 25 15:35:54 <alterego> Why don't you read what I say!
Jun 25 15:35:59 <lcuk> thebootroo_, what have you wanting to do with yours?
Jun 25 15:36:42 <thebootroo_> lcuk: port my apps from http://modern-os.projects.servhome.org/mobileApps/  , write new ones, and try usability of https://gitorious.org/meego-community-mobile-ux-ng  too
Jun 25 15:37:19 <lcuk> cool
Jun 25 15:37:43 * lcuk just wants to see liqcalendar with Nokia Pure styling
Jun 25 15:38:37 <alterego> What do you mean by Nokia pure styling?
Jun 25 15:38:40 <lcuk> javispedro, n9 swipe
Jun 25 15:38:51 <lcuk> it is a bit jarring to stop swiping to select app
Jun 25 15:39:08 <lcuk> the n9 window manager should swipe through all the running apps
Jun 25 15:39:11 <lcuk> it is so much cooler
Jun 25 15:39:15 <lcuk> (testing on my ideapad
Jun 25 15:39:30 <alterego> I don't like the idea of that.
Jun 25 15:39:38 <alterego> Take ages to get to the app you want.
Jun 25 15:39:41 <Venemo_N900> what do you guys think about this one? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1036705#post1036705
Jun 25 15:39:42 <thebootroo_> i'm not fan of pure gesture ui
Jun 25 15:39:52 <javispedro> alterego: it works kinda well on the webos
Jun 25 15:39:54 <lcuk> alterego, look at liqbase
Jun 25 15:39:55 <alterego> thumbnail view is by far the easiest way to select between running apps
Jun 25 15:39:57 <lcuk> the grid is still there
Jun 25 15:40:07 <lcuk> but for alt-tabbing between a set of things you are working on
Jun 25 15:40:09 <javispedro> alterego: after all, the operation you do most is switching between two apps (browser & notes, browser & email, ... you know the usual combinations)
Jun 25 15:40:10 <lcuk> its faster
Jun 25 15:40:11 <thebootroo_> alterego: i agree, i love the switcher from maemo 5
Jun 25 15:40:20 <MohammadAG> I like the swipe concept tbh
Jun 25 15:40:25 <lcuk> i do too
Jun 25 15:40:32 <lcuk> liqbase.openswipe.diff agrees
Jun 25 15:40:47 <MohammadAG> usually I'd be ranting about the lack of buttons, but they executed it well
Jun 25 15:40:51 <javispedro> lcuk: is liqbase still a pure x11+xv app, or did you wrap it in Qt?
Jun 25 15:41:06 <lcuk> javispedro, i have sketches in qt
Jun 25 15:41:11 <lcuk> but liqbase is still pure
Jun 25 15:41:19 <lcuk> the openswipe would apply on my n810
Jun 25 15:41:33 <javispedro> I'm curious how it works in harmattan (does a swipe gesture get caught by system, or does it get caught by your application?)
Jun 25 15:41:46 <lcuk> javispedro, you have the css
Jun 25 15:41:49 <lcuk> it should be system
Jun 25 15:41:57 <lcuk> window manager level
Jun 25 15:42:10 <lcuk> look at m5, it manages button handling
Jun 25 15:42:15 <javispedro> yep
Jun 25 15:42:16 <lcuk> without the app
Jun 25 15:42:25 <lcuk> (top left task switcher)
Jun 25 15:42:35 <javispedro> on the testing thread for mikkov's sdl app the app seemingly catched the events
Jun 25 15:42:37 <alterego> system takes control when it's at the edge of the screen
Jun 25 15:42:47 <javispedro> though I think this is because he used the upstream SDL
Jun 25 15:42:48 <alterego> gestures are under app context when more in the middle.
Jun 25 15:43:01 <javispedro> which does fullscreen windows unredirected
Jun 25 15:43:13 <javispedro> (but obviously I'm not sure)
Jun 25 15:43:24 <javispedro> alterego: I'd like to see that code =)
Jun 25 15:43:36 <alterego> It's literally the 10px borders that cause task switching
Jun 25 15:43:55 <javispedro> how do you know?
Jun 25 15:44:00 <alterego> The UI concept is extremely well thought, right down to the glass seemlessly going into the body to make these swipe gestures more natural
Jun 25 15:44:02 <lcuk> the window manager gets the events
Jun 25 15:44:17 <alterego> javispedro: by finding the sensitive spots in the UI :P
Jun 25 15:44:29 <lcuk> how about just reading the css
Jun 25 15:44:37 <lcuk> arent they listed there according to javis
Jun 25 15:44:48 <javispedro> they are, but I want to know how does it
Jun 25 15:44:57 <javispedro> does, reads, parses,...
Jun 25 15:45:08 <lcuk> not very techincal
Jun 25 15:45:42 <javispedro> heh
Jun 25 15:45:51 <javispedro> 4.87mm =)
Jun 25 15:45:55 <MohammadAG> javispedro, you can supress the swipe
Jun 25 15:45:59 <MohammadAG> suppress*
Jun 25 15:46:06 <Venemo_N900> how?
Jun 25 15:46:13 <MohammadAG> idk, you just can
Jun 25 15:46:18 <MohammadAG> haven't looked at the docs
Jun 25 15:46:36 <MohammadAG> I'll try to find it
Jun 25 15:46:37 <thebootroo_> javispedro: if i  put swipe to 0 mm, can title bar buttons from maemo  appear ?
Jun 25 15:47:04 <lcuk> what has the swipe gesture got to do with titlebars and buttons?
Jun 25 15:47:13 <javispedro> lcuk++
Jun 25 15:47:15 <lcuk> surely if both were intended to exist they would
Jun 25 15:48:04 <lcuk> i want swipe on meego netbook
Jun 25 15:48:10 <lcuk> for alt-tab
Jun 25 15:48:11 <thebootroo_> i want the titlebar from maemo5 back
Jun 25 15:48:21 <lcuk> it is braindead as it stands
Jun 25 15:48:27 <javispedro> haha
Jun 25 15:48:31 <javispedro> agreed with that, lcuk.
Jun 25 15:48:39 <javispedro> though swipe gestures on pads do not work as well
Jun 25 15:48:44 <javispedro> at least palm guys think so
Jun 25 15:48:46 <MohammadAG> Venemo_N900, javispedro http://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/pages/Full_Screen.html
Jun 25 15:48:56 <javispedro> cause they removed back, etc. gestures and added a sw back button
Jun 25 15:49:03 <MohammadAG> "If a full screen application such as a game uses complex gestures and interactions that directly interfere with Swipe, then Swipe should be disabled during normal use and re-enabled through an intermittent or "paused" state."
Jun 25 15:49:24 <javispedro> MohammadAG: aww, I tough you were going to link us to API :'( ;)
Jun 25 15:49:24 <MohammadAG> problem is, if the game crashes I'm guessing you have to reboot
Jun 25 15:49:36 <javispedro> MohammadAG: see the mikkov testing thread, there's power button menu
Jun 25 15:49:47 <lcuk> bug 10544
Jun 25 15:49:50 <MeeGoBot> Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10544 nor, Medium, ---, tf, RESO WONTFIX, Alt-Tab app order not reflected in applications
Jun 25 15:50:11 <thebootroo_> MohammadAG: definitely i don't really like pure swipe ux, we need buttons in addition for the case we don't want or can't swipe
Jun 25 15:50:47 <Venemo_N900> thebootroo_, maybe Cordia is for you?
Jun 25 15:50:58 <lcuk> the microsoft n9 has extra hardware button
Jun 25 15:51:07 <lcuk> for camera
Jun 25 15:51:20 * lcuk will be getting one
Jun 25 15:51:30 <thebootroo_> Venemo_N900: i don't want hildon, this patched gtk stuff is shit, i want qt env, but with titlebar (like origianl harmattan guidelins and meego handset ones)
Jun 25 15:51:34 <lcuk> i tried to use iphone for taking photos
Jun 25 15:51:39 <lcuk> i kept holding it upside down
Jun 25 15:51:42 <javispedro> thebootroo_: actually, handset never had titlebars
Jun 25 15:51:48 <Venemo_N900> thebootroo_, Cordia is not about Hildon at all
Jun 25 15:51:50 <javispedro> it has always been that way
Jun 25 15:51:58 * SpeedEvil wonders how many touches can be sensed.
Jun 25 15:52:10 <SpeedEvil> If you can sense 'magic' gestures, that'd be a way out
Jun 25 15:52:11 <lcuk> hardware
Jun 25 15:52:11 <javispedro> I was scared at first, but now I think that no titlebars is great, specially with the "each app is a color" idea
Jun 25 15:52:18 <SpeedEvil> Say a finger in each corners.
Jun 25 15:52:22 <Venemo_N900> thebootroo_, hildon-desktop is based on clutter, not at all on either Gtk or Hildon
Jun 25 15:52:29 <thebootroo_> javispedro: AFAIK mtf apps from meego handset HAVE titlebar, and tablet ux dont
Jun 25 15:52:31 <lcuk> javispedro, you mean like I have been doing for yonks ;)
Jun 25 15:52:37 <lcuk> albeit without style
Jun 25 15:52:45 <javispedro> lcuk: yes, touché =)
Jun 25 15:52:53 <javispedro> thebootroo_: they are drawn by client apps themselves
Jun 25 15:53:02 * lcuk understands the polish Nokia has given to certain key ideas
Jun 25 15:53:46 <javispedro> thebootroo_: meaning, your apps can draw titlebars if you think they are best with one.
Jun 25 15:53:48 <javispedro> see http://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/images/building_blocks/Essentials/logo.png
Jun 25 15:53:50 <thebootroo_> javispedro: no matters the way it's done, its great
Jun 25 15:54:18 <thebootroo_> javispedro: my apps all have theirs own title bar : http://modern-os.projects.servhome.org/mobileApps/
Jun 25 15:54:46 <javispedro> well.
Jun 25 15:54:50 <thebootroo_> and its better with app side titlebar, this way, games can have no one, and facebook app can have blue one.. etc
Jun 25 15:55:00 <javispedro> ?
Jun 25 15:55:04 <javispedro> ah
Jun 25 15:55:14 <lcuk> javispedro, #agreed http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmd7scHoTZ1qz6hf7o1_400.gif
Jun 25 15:55:20 <javispedro> that's what I've been saying =)
Jun 25 15:56:02 <thebootroo_> so, we need a DBus call to show desktop
Jun 25 15:58:29 <javispedro> I see that there's something about quicklaunch in swipe that I'm yet to see in action
Jun 25 16:01:36 <javispedro> (why I bet it's similar to webos quicklaunch ? ;) )
Jun 25 16:01:51 * DocScrutinizer groans as usual when he has to learn new interfaces
Jun 25 16:03:40 * DocScrutinizer also wonders where's status area aka systray when there's no titlebar
Jun 25 16:05:04 <Venemo_N900> DocScrutinizer, there is a status area on top
Jun 25 16:05:20 <Venemo_N900> it's just not necessarily visible from all apps
Jun 25 16:05:31 <DocScrutinizer> how useful
Jun 25 16:05:55 <javispedro> DocScrutinizer: it's just like every other smartphone platform out there
Jun 25 16:06:13 <DocScrutinizer> how boring :-P
Jun 25 16:06:46 <DocScrutinizer> nm
Jun 25 16:07:00 <Venemo_N900> DocScrutinizer, are you getting an N9(50)?
Jun 25 16:07:23 <DocScrutinizer> m6 isn't for me, meego isn't for me, knew that since months. No reason to whine
Jun 25 16:07:41 <DocScrutinizer> Venemo_N900: I guess not
Jun 25 16:07:49 <Venemo_N900> mhm
Jun 25 16:08:04 <DocScrutinizer> why?
Jun 25 16:08:20 <DocScrutinizer> does that make any diff?
Jun 25 16:08:34 <Venemo_N900> I was just curious
Jun 25 16:08:46 <DocScrutinizer> It's a loaner anyway, and I'm definitely not up to get a N9
Jun 25 16:09:25 <Venemo_N900> mhm
Jun 25 16:09:44 <DocScrutinizer> If I wanted a N9, then I had an iPhone right now
Jun 25 16:10:18 <javispedro> there's still a bit of a difference
Jun 25 16:10:18 <Venemo_N900> hehe
Jun 25 16:13:32 <smoku> javispedro, yeah. no apps. ;-)
Jun 25 16:13:33 <SpeedEvil> Elop doesn't have nearly the presence of his Steveness.
Jun 25 16:14:00 <Venemo_N900> smoku :D
Jun 25 16:15:12 <Venemo_N900> hm
Jun 25 16:15:34 <Venemo_N900> it's weird how 3 of the biggest compaines are run by persons called Steve
Jun 25 16:16:08 <smoku> I should call my son Steve
Jun 25 16:16:44 <javispedro> and so the cycle repeats
Jun 25 16:17:07 <javispedro> people call their sons steve because it seems steves are important, so there are lots of steves, so those who end up being important are called steve, so ..
Jun 25 16:18:11 <SpeedEvil> SteveC of openstreetmap.
Jun 25 16:18:14 <Venemo_N900> lol
Jun 25 16:18:35 <smoku> javispedro, so you tell there's something about it...
Jun 25 16:18:55 <javispedro> though my theory breaks down because according to wikipedia, "The name was the ranked 201 in the United States in 2009"
Jun 25 16:19:30 <timakima> it's a dying economy anyway. how many steves are in china?
Jun 25 16:19:44 <SpeedEvil> javispedro: That's probably a defective table, only counting boys.
Jun 25 16:20:26 <javispedro> according to that table, my name is more popular in the US than Steve.
Jun 25 16:21:08 <javispedro> http://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/babyname.cgi
Jun 25 16:30:55 <alterego> Wow, the N8 has HDMI _and_ composite
Jun 25 16:31:03 <alterego> Does that mean you can do triple heading,
Jun 25 16:31:05 * alterego chuckles
Jun 25 16:31:36 <Venemo_N900> I don't think so
Jun 25 16:32:49 <Venemo_N900> hm, I hope there will be an Intel-based MeeGo phone soon
Jun 25 16:33:08 <javispedro> it won't have harmattan =)
Jun 25 16:33:16 <Venemo_N900> sure
Jun 25 16:33:35 <alterego> I really don't like the idea of Intel on handsets .. But meh
Jun 25 16:33:42 <Venemo_N900> but Intel seems to be a lot more committed to MeeGo
Jun 25 16:33:59 <alterego> I don't see what that has do do with anything.
Jun 25 16:34:28 <alterego> The competition would be ARM, well, TI and why would they help Intel?
Jun 25 16:34:44 <GAN900> Intel doesn't ship consumer devices
Jun 25 16:34:51 <alterego> A handset manufacture will use whatever the hell they want, asking for an Intel processor is a bit odd imo ..
Jun 25 16:34:55 <TSCHAKeee> they make platforms.
Jun 25 16:34:55 <GAN900> They're going to have to convince a manufacturer.
Jun 25 16:35:11 <TSCHAKeee> moorestown didn't do it
Jun 25 16:35:22 <alterego> Anyway, apparently there "platform" wont be ready until Q1 2012
Jun 25 16:36:06 <Venemo_N900> there are talks about "medfield" to arrive in Q3 2011, no specific info on phone models though
Jun 25 16:36:29 <alterego> I was told by an Intel employee it's not going to be ready until Q1 2012
Jun 25 16:37:56 <Venemo_N900> mhm
Jun 25 16:38:01 <alterego> And I don't think it'll be even ready then
Jun 25 16:38:12 <Venemo_N900> well, who knows?
Jun 25 16:38:22 <alterego> Erm .. Intel?
Jun 25 16:38:23 <Venemo_N900> I just want to see actual MeeGo products
Jun 25 16:38:33 <alterego> Why?
Jun 25 16:38:40 <alterego> Is it not enough to see MeeGo on products?
Jun 25 16:38:45 <alterego> Like the N900, N9, N950
Jun 25 16:38:48 <alterego> exopc
Jun 25 16:40:19 <wmarone> the N9 and N950 are "MeeGo Compatible," but as yet unavailable (and Nokia's gonna work hard to ensure that)
Jun 25 16:40:24 <wmarone> exoPC... lol
Jun 25 16:42:04 <Venemo_N900> alterego, maybe
Jun 25 16:43:19 <alterego> wmarone: I'm not talking about what it comes with
Jun 25 16:43:26 <alterego> I'm talking about MeeGo ready devices.
Jun 25 16:43:50 <alterego> Platforms that are open enough for us to be able to take advantage of them with MeeGo
Jun 25 16:44:14 <alterego> Though admittedly topping Nokias UI is going to be pretty impossible without some serious work.
Jun 25 16:44:48 <wmarone> sure, and your choice is, at this point, some iffy tablets
Jun 25 16:45:08 * wmarone fins himself short on commas...
Jun 25 16:45:39 <Venemo_N900> well, UX is a matter of personal taste, and I see some good ideas every day
Jun 25 16:46:16 <alterego> I don't care about tablets
Jun 25 16:46:18 <thebootroo_> WOW ! http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/mynokiablog/Gogd/~3/BXi6VE6g1zU/?utm_source=feedburner   N5http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/mynokiablog/Gogd/~3/BXi6VE6g1zU/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email950 12MPx
Jun 25 16:46:29 <alterego> Nokia have 3 handsets now we can use for MeeGo
Jun 25 16:46:34 <alterego> That is what I'm talking about.
Jun 25 16:46:41 <Venemo_N900> the problem is that because of driver issues, not too many phones can run MeeGo
Jun 25 16:46:49 <wmarone> alterego: two, unless you're magically selected ;)
Jun 25 16:46:59 <alterego> wmarone: Three
Jun 25 16:47:06 <wmarone> I can't get an N950
Jun 25 16:47:07 <alterego> Just because you don't have them doesn't mean they're not targets
Jun 25 16:47:14 <alterego> So?
Jun 25 16:47:21 <alterego> The world doesn't revolve around you
Jun 25 16:47:27 <Venemo_N900> even Nokia doesn't support its own hw adaptation team with drivers
Jun 25 16:47:34 <wmarone> why would you target a device no one can get?
Jun 25 16:47:36 <alterego> Erm .. What?
Jun 25 16:47:46 <alterego> wmarone: because some of us will probably have them?
Jun 25 16:47:51 <alterego> And the hardware is identical, it's free.
Jun 25 16:47:55 <berndhs> a pure developer device isn't really a "target"
Jun 25 16:48:11 * alterego sighs
Jun 25 16:48:19 <alterego> It's always about end users with you guys.
Jun 25 16:48:33 <berndhs> well its about users other than myself
Jun 25 16:48:51 <alterego> Is that because you don't use MeeGo yourself?
Jun 25 16:48:52 <wmarone> I know, we should cater to the tiny minority that got hardware everyone wanted, but Nokia dumped
Jun 25 16:48:54 <alterego> Then why are you here?
Jun 25 16:48:58 <Venemo_N900> it's about as many users as possible
Jun 25 16:49:14 <alterego> wmarone: you're missing the point, the N9 and N950 are pretty much identical.
Jun 25 16:49:26 <alterego> And they're so close to the N900 our MeeGo CE will work fine on all of them.
Jun 25 16:49:31 <wmarone> so then it's a moot point, and the N950 is a moot device
Jun 25 16:49:31 <alterego> In fact, I hear it does already.
Jun 25 16:49:42 <alterego> What we need is a nicer next gen ux
Jun 25 16:50:01 <Venemo_N900> alterego, out of curiosity, do you use MeeGo on your N900 btw?
Jun 25 16:50:10 <alterego> wmarone: sure, I'm just saying we have 3 devices and you're saying that just because you don't have an N950 it doesn't exist.
Jun 25 16:50:14 <alterego> Which is bull shit
Jun 25 16:50:19 <wmarone> err
Jun 25 16:50:21 <alterego> Venemo_N900: yes, of course.
Jun 25 16:50:47 <berndhs> 950s are probably fine devices, just not targets
Jun 25 16:51:01 <alterego> Seriously, why are they not targets?
Jun 25 16:51:06 <Venemo_N900> alterego, does the FMTX work?
Jun 25 16:51:07 <alterego> Of course they are targets ..
Jun 25 16:51:10 <berndhs> market-size they are like beagleboards
Jun 25 16:51:14 <alterego> Venemo_N900: never tried it.
Jun 25 16:51:17 <berndhs> market-wise
Jun 25 16:51:21 <alterego> We don't have a front end.
Jun 25 16:51:25 <alterego> So?
Jun 25 16:51:31 <alterego> We're not doing it to make money ..
Jun 25 16:51:42 <berndhs> so you will not have any users on them
Jun 25 16:51:53 <alterego> If you want a hardware device you can make money from, why don't _you_ build devices ..
Jun 25 16:51:59 <Venemo_N900> about a next gen nicer UX, what do you have in mind?
Jun 25 16:52:03 <alterego> I really can't see what your points are ..
Jun 25 16:52:22 <berndhs> my point is that a development platform is not a target
Jun 25 16:52:29 <berndhs> different things
Jun 25 16:52:43 <alterego> Venemo_N900: I never said I had anything in mind.
Jun 25 16:52:49 <alterego> berndhs: and I'm asking you why?
Jun 25 16:52:54 <alterego> Of course it is a target
Jun 25 16:52:56 <alterego> and IT IS A TARGET
Jun 25 16:53:02 <alterego> We are going to be targetting the N950
Jun 25 16:53:05 <berndhs> for the same reason that a simulator is not a target
Jun 25 16:53:10 * alterego sighs
Jun 25 16:53:22 <berndhs> they make fine development platforms for many purposes
Jun 25 16:53:28 <alterego> I'm just not going to bother with this conversation any more ..
Jun 25 16:53:43 <Venemo_N900> alterego, I'm just saying I agree with you that we need a nicer UX :)
Jun 25 16:53:43 <alterego> Yes berndhs that is why they're f'ing targets.
Jun 25 16:53:56 <alterego> That is what makes them targets.
Jun 25 16:54:00 <berndhs> only for developers
Jun 25 16:54:01 <alterego> For the MeeGo project.
Jun 25 16:54:11 <alterego> For whoever can get one, actually.
Jun 25 16:54:18 <alterego> Why would it be only for developers?
Jun 25 16:54:26 <berndhs> because nobody else can get one
Jun 25 16:54:32 * TSCHAKeee still mad that the N950 is a limited run loaner.
Jun 25 16:54:39 <alterego> If a normal user gets an N950 then I'm not going to tell them to go away.
Jun 25 16:54:43 <TSCHAKeee> but hey at least it exists.
Jun 25 16:54:44 <berndhs> normal people can't get one
Jun 25 16:54:46 <alterego> berndhs: don't be naive.
Jun 25 16:54:59 <wmarone> alterego: if a normal user gets an N950, then as you said the N9 software (except for NFC stuff) should Just Work
Jun 25 16:55:03 <alterego> I'm sure you'll find a lot of "normal" people getting them.
Jun 25 16:55:12 <Venemo_N900> alterego, I'm just saying I agree with you that we need a nicer UX :)
Jun 25 16:55:15 <javispedro> with 250 only?
Jun 25 16:55:16 <javispedro> =)
Jun 25 16:55:20 <alterego> Venemo_N900: good ;)
Jun 25 16:55:25 <TSCHAKeee> if Nokia pulls the N9/N950, I will go to Nokia headquarters, and burn the place down.
Jun 25 16:55:26 <alterego> javispedro: there's a lot more than 250 ;)
Jun 25 16:55:39 <javispedro> TSCHAKeee: I'm joining you with my bulldozer
Jun 25 16:55:39 <wmarone> javispedro: maybe if they loosen up on the requirements from the nokia dev program...
Jun 25 16:55:41 <berndhs> sure, a max of 250 users simplifies support :P
Jun 25 16:55:47 <Venemo_N900> well, noone knows whether the N950 will be sold or not
Jun 25 16:55:58 <Venemo_N900> we only know that for the time being it's a devkit
Jun 25 16:56:02 <alterego> Venemo_N900: yes we do, it is not going to be sold
Jun 25 16:56:14 <alterego> It will only be a "devkit" device ..
Jun 25 16:56:19 <alterego> It will never be sold by Nokia
Jun 25 16:56:36 <Venemo_N900> they can change their minds anytime. I can imagine a lot of business users needing the qwerty on it
Jun 25 16:56:51 <alterego> The N9(50) aren't business devices.
Jun 25 16:57:00 <alterego> They are N series multimedia devices.
Jun 25 16:57:16 <Venemo_N900> no, they are dev devices
Jun 25 16:57:25 <berndhs> what are they? entertainment devices ? toys ?
Jun 25 16:57:26 <alterego> The N9 isn't a dev device.
Jun 25 16:57:27 <Venemo_N900> but nokia could make a similar one for business users anytime
Jun 25 16:57:36 <alterego> Sure, the E7
Jun 25 16:57:41 <alterego> That is a business device.
Jun 25 16:57:48 <alterego> Targetted at business users ..
Jun 25 16:57:58 <Venemo_N900> E7 is crappy symbian shit
Jun 25 16:58:06 <alterego> m'hmmm ..
Jun 25 16:58:12 <lcuk> screw phones, I want a nokia lightsabre.
Jun 25 16:58:22 <alterego> Symbian will outlive MeeGo in Nokia
Jun 25 16:58:25 <alterego> Live with it
Jun 25 16:59:00 <berndhs> Nokia will aim at the high end of the low end market for the billion ?
Jun 25 16:59:57 <lcuk> Nokia is large enough to have its best focus at each point.
Jun 25 17:00:33 <berndhs> large enough yes
Jun 25 17:01:22 <Venemo_N900> "symbian will outlive meego in nokia" -> I don't care
Jun 25 17:01:32 <alterego> m'hmmm
Jun 25 17:01:41 <alterego> I don't care that you don't care :)
Jun 25 17:01:42 <Venemo_N900> I only hope that there will be a sane phone vendor to offer meego
Jun 25 17:01:57 <Venemo_N900> whether it will be nokia or not, doesn't matter
Jun 25 17:02:04 <alterego> I think it does matter.
Jun 25 17:02:10 <lcuk> how about Nokia will outlive any OS on its phones.
Jun 25 17:02:14 <berndhs> why would it matter ?
Jun 25 17:02:18 <thebootroo_> this guy is stupid : http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/25/nokias-stephen-elop-is-still-over-meego-even-if-the-n9-is-a-hi/
Jun 25 17:02:33 <alterego> It certainly does to me. I wouldn't think twice about buying from Nokia, but other manufacturers, HTC, Samsung, LG, I would have to be on crack to buy a phone from them.
Jun 25 17:02:43 <Venemo_N900> I would pick MeeGo over Symbian or WP7 any day
Jun 25 17:02:46 <alterego> thebootroo_: he's right.
Jun 25 17:03:01 <thebootroo_> alterego: Stephen Elop is stupid
Jun 25 17:03:10 <berndhs> well, if you have a special preference for a company...
Jun 25 17:03:14 <alterego> thebootroo_: I don't think he's stupid.
Jun 25 17:03:21 <thebootroo_> why can't they keep releasing 1 or 2 meegophone each year
Jun 25 17:03:22 <alterego> I think the board are stupid
Jun 25 17:03:32 <Venemo_N900> even though I kinda like developing with MS tools, I'd get a MeeGo device over any other, regardless of manufacturer.
Jun 25 17:03:38 <berndhs> Elop can't do anything that the board doesn't want
Jun 25 17:04:17 <alterego> Erm, so?
Jun 25 17:04:28 <alterego> That just reinforces my feelings that the board are stupid.
Jun 25 17:04:44 <lcuk> sigh
Jun 25 17:04:56 <berndhs> so i'm saying in those cases where Elop's stategy is stupid, that's the board as much as himself
Jun 25 17:05:26 <berndhs> more the board actually if he is wrong, because they put him there
Jun 25 17:06:24 <thebootroo_> so nobody in the fucking board listens to consumers ? they want to push WP7 that nobode wants and kill meego which as fans and have been wellcomed by press ? they are stupid
Jun 25 17:06:25 <Venemo_N900> why does everyone think that they know the business better than Elop or the board or anyone? they surely have good financial reasons to do what they're doing.
Jun 25 17:06:53 <lcuk> thebootroo_, wp looks cool to be fair
Jun 25 17:07:04 <Venemo_N900> MS paid them a good amount of money, and that's it.
Jun 25 17:07:09 <thebootroo_> lcuk: WP7 look ugly as hell
Jun 25 17:07:11 <alterego> It looks quite cool.
Jun 25 17:07:17 <alterego> I don't think it's good though
Jun 25 17:07:29 <Venemo_N900> WP7 is not ugly, "just" dumb
Jun 25 17:07:37 <lcuk> what makes it dumb?
Jun 25 17:07:40 <alterego> It's unique, which is good for it, but I'm more interested in making things usable and consistent.
Jun 25 17:07:41 <thebootroo_> Venemo_N900: no, ugly, really
Jun 25 17:07:48 <lcuk> the integration with products and services many folks have at home?
Jun 25 17:08:06 <alterego> "Microsoft Products" ..
Jun 25 17:08:11 <Venemo_N900> lcuk, it lacks a bunch of features. at least it did, last time I checked.
Jun 25 17:08:12 <lcuk> so?
Jun 25 17:08:14 <lcuk> they are products
Jun 25 17:08:20 <Venemo_N900> so, it's dumb.
Jun 25 17:08:23 <thebootroo_> lcuk: i have no XBox, no MSN account, no Windows Computer, no Zune .... i don't matter integration
Jun 25 17:08:37 <Venemo_N900> it will get better in time, just like MeeGo gets better all the time
Jun 25 17:08:50 <Venemo_N900> thebootroo_, I envy you!
Jun 25 17:08:51 <lcuk> you don't
Jun 25 17:08:54 <lcuk> but many do
Jun 25 17:09:12 <lcuk> i just don't see the point of slating something
Jun 25 17:09:19 <lcuk> just because you are not the audience
Jun 25 17:09:29 * lcuk admires the ballet
Jun 25 17:09:35 <lcuk> but I do not go there often
Jun 25 17:09:38 <lcuk> etc
Jun 25 17:09:50 <Venemo_N900> lcuk ++
Jun 25 17:10:01 <lcuk> the windows phone offering is compelling to its audience
Jun 25 17:10:26 <thebootroo_> lcuk: so keep WP7 for WIndows users, but keep meego for others, why don't keep both instead of killing meego ?
Jun 25 17:10:29 <lcuk> from our side, i am pleased maemo hackers got the n9 release :D
Jun 25 17:10:52 <lcuk> thebootroo_, technically as meego is open source it should be upto us to make sure it liveson
Jun 25 17:10:54 <Venemo_N900> lcuk, yeah, I think this is what I wanted to say. it's just that I'm not the target audience of WP7
Jun 25 17:10:58 <alterego> yes, like berndhs was doing earlier about the N950 not ebing a target :P
Jun 25 17:11:00 <javispedro> lcuk is clearly preparing for a larger elopcalyipse
Jun 25 17:11:14 <thebootroo_> plus, many Windows users i know don't want WP7 which is ugly and look unfinished and Wontfix
Jun 25 17:11:30 <alterego> I think Elop agreed with MS that they can never use another competing platform (esp. meego)
Jun 25 17:12:06 <Venemo_N900> lcuk, I want it to live on!
Jun 25 17:12:09 <alterego> That would make what he said more sensical, rather than just insane.
Jun 25 17:12:45 <thebootroo_> its seems insane to kill the best phone ever in his bed
Jun 25 17:12:56 <lcuk> the new windows phone is out
Jun 25 17:12:57 <thebootroo_> with best smartphone os ever too
Jun 25 17:13:00 <lcuk> Nokia ++ awesome device
Jun 25 17:13:34 <lcuk> what would now make Nokia the most awesome company in the world would be to also give a Symbian version
Jun 25 17:13:43 <thebootroo_> but i don't want windows in a phone, its yet too heavy computer, and too buggy, closed source, ui is poor ... etc
Jun 25 17:14:11 <Venemo_N900> thebootroo_, WP7 is not related to the windows that you run on a desktop
Jun 25 17:14:11 <javispedro> lcuk: there have been some photos on engadget about an android n9
Jun 25 17:14:18 <thebootroo_> lcuk: who would want a symbian version all said symbian should be dead years ago
Jun 25 17:14:26 <Venemo_N900> thebootroo_, it's just a brand name
Jun 25 17:14:34 <thebootroo_> Venemo_N900: same developers, same technologies
Jun 25 17:14:52 <lcuk> and PLEASE chinese cloners - give us a RESISTIVE screen version
Jun 25 17:14:55 <thebootroo_> Venemo_N900: WP7 is heavy (look at minimum requirements)
Jun 25 17:15:01 <thebootroo_> lcuk: ++100
Jun 25 17:15:08 <lcuk> same screen quality as n900
Jun 25 17:15:09 <Venemo_N900> thebootroo_, and those technologies are very compelling to developers
Jun 25 17:15:25 <thebootroo_> Venemo_N900: less than QT
Jun 25 17:15:27 <thebootroo_> *Qt
Jun 25 17:15:30 <alterego> I never said Symbian should be dead.
Jun 25 17:15:36 <thebootroo_> i said
Jun 25 17:15:37 <alterego> I think it's good, it just needs to be updated.
Jun 25 17:15:44 <Venemo_N900> thebootroo_, have you ever developed a Silverlight app? or used C#?
Jun 25 17:15:47 <ShadowJK> if only chinese cloners started cloning the insides too, instead of using the same phone-on-a-chip as always
Jun 25 17:15:52 <alterego> And they were working toward that ..
Jun 25 17:16:08 <thebootroo_> alterego: in software, some thing need to be recreatd from scratch, we can't always update
Jun 25 17:16:15 <Venemo_N900> alterego, Symbian surely does need a new UX, and that's all.
Jun 25 17:16:34 <thebootroo_> Symbian would need a new Core too
Jun 25 17:16:34 <lcuk> Venemo_N900, touch and type is compelling device
Jun 25 17:16:56 <alterego> Symbian (inside) is extremely well done
Jun 25 17:16:57 <lcuk> thebootroo_, look at sheer number of tested devices symbian happily runs on
Jun 25 17:17:00 <alterego> imo
Jun 25 17:17:04 <lcuk> it puts qt cross platform to shame
Jun 25 17:17:10 <Venemo_N900> lcuk, it's a nice small device, but it is not based on Symbian
Jun 25 17:17:14 <Venemo_N900> alterego ++
Jun 25 17:17:33 <alterego> Symbian is the _only_ operating system currently in use that was written explicitly for ARM based mobile computers.
Jun 25 17:17:53 <Venemo_N900> indeed
Jun 25 17:18:19 <Venemo_N900> but it never had a good touch GUI
Jun 25 17:18:29 <lcuk> it was not designed to need one
Jun 25 17:18:36 <lcuk> phones were for making phone calls.
Jun 25 17:18:40 <alterego> Actually, I quite liked the Psion 5MX and Revo UXs :P
Jun 25 17:18:45 <thebootroo_> apps installation is shit
Jun 25 17:19:01 <lcuk> thebootroo_, make something better
Jun 25 17:19:02 <thebootroo_> and file system organisation is shit
Jun 25 17:19:06 <alterego> (which did have touch capability)
Jun 25 17:19:15 <alterego> thebootroo_: that is unimportant.
Jun 25 17:19:18 <javispedro> alterego: for ARM?
Jun 25 17:19:24 <javispedro> you mean for embedded.
Jun 25 17:19:24 <alterego> javispedro: ?
Jun 25 17:19:28 <alterego> I mean for ARM
Jun 25 17:19:54 <thebootroo_> and changing that would break compatibility so, instead of updating almost everything, use meego which is new so well though from start
Jun 25 17:19:59 <alterego> It hasn't ran on anything other than ARM AFAICT
Jun 25 17:20:17 <lcuk> thebootroo_, green code is fun
Jun 25 17:20:19 <thebootroo_> symbian is well for small non touch phones
Jun 25 17:20:21 <alterego> thebootroo_: compatibility with what? And how would you think this is a problem?
Jun 25 17:20:35 <alterego> thebootroo_: I just don't think you know what you're talking about.
Jun 25 17:20:50 <alterego> Symbian isn't just the series 60 UX, or the Symbian Anna UX, or the Symbian^3 UX
Jun 25 17:20:56 <thebootroo_> alterego: i konw what i'm taling about
Jun 25 17:21:02 <Venemo_N900> Symbian is not an UX
Jun 25 17:21:19 <thebootroo_> i had symbian S60 devices, Maemo5 too, and now meego, and my father has a N8 symbian 3
Jun 25 17:21:21 <alterego> Symbian is an _entire_ operating system that is capable of running software, has great multi-tasking and resource management, as well as security features and data management (like PIM) built in.
Jun 25 17:21:29 <alterego> thebootroo_: you really don't.
Jun 25 17:21:48 <alterego> thebootroo_: you're just jumping on the "symbian is crap" band wagon, when you're only talking about Nokias user experience with it so far.
Jun 25 17:22:03 <thebootroo_> changing symbian to make it at same level as android and meego would mens change about all, so break symbian programs compatibilty so no interest, better use a new OS
Jun 25 17:22:11 <alterego> bull shit
Jun 25 17:22:13 <Venemo_N900> nope
Jun 25 17:22:22 <Venemo_N900> it would just need a good UX
Jun 25 17:22:36 <alterego> It would mean removing the crappy N series UI and putting Qt on top of it, then they could just use Swipe as well.
Jun 25 17:22:37 <Venemo_N900> which they were unable to (or didn't care to) implement
Jun 25 17:22:45 <thebootroo_> alterego: after using many symbian device, i must say resource management is NOT good
Jun 25 17:22:57 <alterego> thebootroo_: m'hmmm ...
Jun 25 17:23:01 <lcuk> alterego, performance not withstanding.
Jun 25 17:23:08 <alterego> thebootroo_: so the fact it can run in 16M of memory isn't good?
Jun 25 17:23:11 <alterego> Or even less?
Jun 25 17:23:13 <ShadowJK> Like when they were unable to fix a bug where a dialog text overran screen :)
Jun 25 17:23:19 <alterego> Symbian's foot print can go down to 256Kb
Jun 25 17:23:22 <lcuk> and alterego - what window manager is running
Jun 25 17:23:23 <thebootroo_> i don't go 'symbian is crap' for fun or hype, but because i used to have many
Jun 25 17:23:24 <javispedro> alterego: that is bad.
Jun 25 17:23:39 <alterego> javispedro: compared to what?
Jun 25 17:23:44 <javispedro> you know. palmos can also run with 2 KiB of heap.
Jun 25 17:23:50 * lcuk once wrote a mandelbrot calculation routine that fitted in the 680ec20 cpu cache :)
Jun 25 17:23:56 <lcuk> 256bytes!
Jun 25 17:24:01 <javispedro> the limitations that are caused because it can do so are what killed it
Jun 25 17:24:04 <alterego> thebootroo_: you're complaining about how Nokia have employed the OS, which is understandable.
Jun 25 17:24:05 <ShadowJK> Nokia used to ship memory-starved symbian devices that were unable to properly run some of the included software :)
Jun 25 17:24:26 <alterego> thebootroo_: it's a common preconception which is not based on reality.
Jun 25 17:24:26 <lcuk> to be fair ShadowJK
Jun 25 17:24:28 <thebootroo_> so why a 5800XM with 128 mb ram used to lag as hell ? footprint != resource efficiency
Jun 25 17:24:31 <lcuk> that is an industry wide thing
Jun 25 17:24:50 <javispedro> actually, low footprint usually means low resource efficiency.
Jun 25 17:24:56 <alterego> thebootroo_: I'd like to see you run anything else on there that gave as many features and ran better ...
Jun 25 17:25:19 <lcuk> I would like tomorrows software on yesterdays hardware.
Jun 25 17:25:30 <ShadowJK> That Nokia insider thing claimed software devs would suddenly at a late stage be told they'll have half the ram they previousl thought there'd be :P
Jun 25 17:25:32 <alterego> :)
Jun 25 17:26:05 <lcuk> ShadowJK, developers have been using 2x the memory as any other computer user in the building for many years
Jun 25 17:26:08 <thebootroo_> what i means i that killing symbian on Smartphones i concevable but not killing meego !
Jun 25 17:26:12 <lcuk> and 2x the cpu
Jun 25 17:26:17 <lcuk> "I need high spec to compile"
Jun 25 17:26:30 <alterego> thebootroo_: I don't see how that even matters
Jun 25 17:26:33 <lcuk> then when end users get the software "it runs slow"
Jun 25 17:26:38 <alterego> Symbian will out live MeeGo in Nokia
Jun 25 17:26:41 <lcuk> "it works on mine"
Jun 25 17:26:43 <alterego> That was the original statement I made.
Jun 25 17:26:52 <berndhs> right lcuk, the bloat problem doesnt have technical reasons, its attitude
Jun 25 17:26:57 <thebootroo_> what i see is : symbian for touch and type devices, wP7 for mid range phones (C  and X series), and meego for high end devices (n series)
Jun 25 17:27:07 <sofar> sounds more like a #meego-bar conversation to me, folks
Jun 25 17:27:13 <lcuk> berndhs, put your developers on the lesser machines
Jun 25 17:27:13 <alterego> thebootroo_: well, that isn't reality
Jun 25 17:27:18 <sofar> perhaps you guys want to "scoot" over to meego-bar?
Jun 25 17:27:25 <thebootroo_> alterego: and that's bad
Jun 25 17:27:26 <ShadowJK> Symbian is so hard to program that Nokia itself failed at it, so that's kinda off-putting for third party devs :P
Jun 25 17:27:32 <alterego> thebootroo_: we'll see.
Jun 25 17:28:23 <alterego> We might not like or agree with Elop or Nokia's current and future thinking. But that doesn't mean that the choices they have and are making are bad choices for what plans they have made.
Jun 25 17:28:43 <alterego> If Nokia get back in the game, with WP7, I'm sure that the stock holders will be happy.
Jun 25 17:28:48 <alterego> And normal users wont give a crap
Jun 25 17:28:55 <alterego> And it'll just be people like me that suffer.
Jun 25 17:29:04 <thebootroo_> i don't think many current nokia buyers will buy WP7, because its not nokia
Jun 25 17:29:05 <alterego> And I am a truely minute minority.
Jun 25 17:29:06 <sofar> alterego: take the heated discussion to meego-bar, please
Jun 25 17:29:13 <sofar> thanks.
Jun 25 17:29:33 <alterego> thebootroo_: My brother and a lot of my friends disagree with you :P
Jun 25 17:29:45 <thebootroo_> alterego: mine disagree you
Jun 25 17:29:47 <alterego> They can't wait for an xbox phone :P
Jun 25 17:30:00 <alterego> thebootroo_: you mean the disagree with Nokia
Jun 25 17:30:04 <thebootroo_> if person want WP7 they alreay have HTC, Samsung, LG ...
Jun 25 17:30:09 <thebootroo_> nokia was different
Jun 25 17:30:20 <alterego> Erm, Nokia is different.
Jun 25 17:30:38 <sofar> alterego: take the heated discussion to meego-bar, please, thanks! :)
Jun 25 17:30:39 <thebootroo_> nokia was symbian and meego, throught unfied harmattan UX
Jun 25 17:30:58 <alterego> sofar: how about I just stop talking, but thanks for addressing me and not the others involved.
Jun 25 17:31:12 <thebootroo_> if nokia makes android or WP7, its no more than othe manufacturers
Jun 25 17:31:17 <ShadowJK> I've heard one person saying he'd buy wp7 from nokia. However... he wants a business phone, and basically expects it to be qwerty of some sort and have full office, word. powerpoint, exchange and  outlook support :P
Jun 25 17:31:19 * alterego wonders off.
Jun 25 17:31:25 <sofar> you're the one carrying on the conversation, while others did not.
Jun 25 17:31:33 <thebootroo_> so nokia can make android or wp7 but should do only that
Jun 25 17:31:44 <alterego> sofar: sure, I'm the one continuing the discussion right now ..
Jun 25 17:31:57 <alterego> bbl
Jun 25 17:32:29 <Venemo_N900> alterego, he is addressing you because you are the only one smart enough to listen
Jun 25 17:32:37 <alterego> sofar: fluffing up features with ops isn't exactly nice behaviour btw.
Jun 25 17:32:41 <Goliath23> elop seems to be a giant fool!
Jun 25 17:32:52 <alterego> ~feathers, I was going to disengage anyway ..
Jun 25 17:32:58 <alterego> Venemo_N900: maybe ..
Jun 25 17:33:05 <alterego> Anyway, I'm gonna do some washing up
Jun 25 17:33:33 <ShadowJK> i wasnt continuing, just slow because i'm trying to use vkb to maybe get used to the idea... :) also, have no idea what's going on while typing this :)
Jun 25 17:34:00 <thebootroo_> anyway, i'm gonna buy N9, to show my support to the last true Nokia N Series
Jun 25 17:34:04 <ShadowJK> it's like having a minute of network latency
Jun 25 17:34:18 <berndhs> that's the problem with virtual keyboards, they are only half-duplex
Jun 25 17:34:24 <alterego> I'm going to buy two N9s, if I can afford it, I want a pink and black one.
Jun 25 17:34:35 <thebootroo_> and my next phone will be meego phone from another vendor, unless nokia finally make a new one
Jun 25 17:34:40 <alterego> Hell, I might get all three, I plan on taking a picture of the entire NIT range
Jun 25 17:34:51 <thebootroo_> you want pink one ? serious ?
Jun 25 17:34:55 <alterego> (I've got every device since 770 :)
Jun 25 17:35:07 <thebootroo_> i would like dark green and black (matrix) one
Jun 25 17:35:15 <ShadowJK> do you also have the elusive n810w? :)
Jun 25 17:35:47 <thebootroo_> N810 Wimax edition ?
Jun 25 17:35:51 <alterego> No, unfortunately that will be the one absentee :(
Jun 25 17:36:08 <Goliath23> I don't get it.. what happens there at nokia? the meego developers must feel really awful. they built a really cool os and then this.. http://tinyurl.com/6xgstoq
Jun 25 17:36:16 <Venemo_N900> alterego, pink?
Jun 25 17:36:28 <alterego> Venemo_N900: the N810 wimax edition
Jun 25 17:36:38 <alterego> It's the only NIT I don't have right now.
Jun 25 17:37:07 <thebootroo_> Goliath23: i posted same link an hour ago : i disagree the "even if meego is a sucess, i'll kill it"
Jun 25 17:37:10 <Venemo_N900> mhm
Jun 25 17:37:16 <thebootroo_> they could keep both WP7 and meego
Jun 25 17:37:17 <MohammadAG> sofar, not in a position to ask, but any reason you're still +o'd?
Jun 25 17:37:25 <thebootroo_> everybody would be happy
Jun 25 17:37:45 <sofar> I just walked off, had to make coffee
Jun 25 17:37:54 <Venemo_N900> alterego, as my GF read this chat, she said that you should give the pink N9 to her :P
Jun 25 17:38:04 <alterego> Venemo_N900: :)
Jun 25 17:38:15 <Venemo_N900> :)
Jun 25 17:38:18 <lcuk> sofar, i don't think the topic really changed
Jun 25 17:38:19 <lcuk> :P
Jun 25 17:38:20 <alterego> Venemo_N900: I have my own gf to sort out, she's using my original N900 at the moment and she really likes it.
Jun 25 17:38:28 <javispedro> it's too late, everybody is dead! just ruuuuuun!
Jun 25 17:38:36 <Venemo_N900> alterego :D
Jun 25 17:38:43 <thebootroo_> i'll get black N9 for me (unless i get a N950) and blue (not pink) N9 for my wife
Jun 25 17:38:55 <sofar> lcuk: I tried
Jun 25 17:39:01 <thebootroo_> (she had 5230XM)
Jun 25 17:39:10 <lcuk> sofar, very well indeed might I add
Jun 25 17:39:15 <lcuk> which meego device do you run?
Jun 25 17:39:17 <thebootroo_> (she envied my N900 but found it to big)
Jun 25 17:39:19 <sofar> I strongly encourage everyone to take the conversation to #meego-bar
Jun 25 17:39:21 <sofar> I strongly encourage everyone to take the conversation to #meego-bar
Jun 25 17:39:22 <sofar> I strongly encourage everyone to take the conversation to #meego-bar
Jun 25 17:39:29 <sofar> I gotta go to a kids party now
Jun 25 17:39:32 <sofar> keep it clean
Jun 25 17:39:35 <sofar> :)
Jun 25 17:39:38 <lcuk> sofar, enjoy the party
Jun 25 17:39:39 <thebootroo_> sofar : i strongly encourage you stop flooding
Jun 25 17:39:46 * javispedro lols
Jun 25 17:39:50 <alterego> sofar: don't spam
Jun 25 17:39:52 <MohammadAG> I strongly encourage you not to spam while getting your point across :P
Jun 25 17:39:56 <thebootroo_> ^^
Jun 25 17:40:00 <thebootroo_> he he he
Jun 25 17:40:01 <Venemo_N900> :D
Jun 25 17:40:02 <sofar> I'll boot myself. ;)
Jun 25 17:40:13 <alterego> sofar: and it's not like anyone was talking about anything else
Jun 25 17:40:22 <lcuk> can you add swipe support to stacking windows in qt
Jun 25 17:40:26 <alterego> _and_ it's the weekend we're just not talking shop :P
Jun 25 17:41:51 <Venemo_N900> alterego, it would also be nice to make a photo of all NITs running MeeGo
Jun 25 17:42:00 <sofar> it's either this pool party or a toddler pool party for me
Jun 25 17:42:07 <sofar> tough choice...
Jun 25 17:42:18 <Venemo_N900> sofar, my condolences
Jun 25 17:43:22 <Venemo_N900> thebootroo_, in any case, if you are a frequent visitor on this channel, you could see me many times saying that nokia's management is nuts.
Jun 25 17:44:13 <alterego> Venemo_N900: that it would
Jun 25 17:44:28 <Venemo_N900> :)
Jun 25 17:45:07 <dm8tbr> oops, somebody accidentially his connection
Jun 25 17:46:27 <Venemo_N900> :D
Jun 25 17:47:29 <Venemo_N900> nah, my train will arrive very soon
Jun 25 17:47:39 <Venemo_N900> so, bye-bye folks :)
Jun 25 17:48:05 <Venemo_N900> I'll come back when I get home
Jun 25 19:10:49 * alterego downloads some SDKs and the latest N950 firmware
Jun 25 19:36:21 <lainwir3d_> damn sgx drivers not being available as hardfp
Jun 25 19:36:36 <thiago> find them in the N950 images
Jun 25 19:38:55 <lainwir3d_> well i suppose that means my beagleboard rootfs will have to use the same gcc / libc / kernel as the N950 image ?
Jun 25 19:39:30 <thiago> libc yes
Jun 25 19:39:38 <thiago> gcc not necessarily
Jun 25 19:40:32 <lainwir3d_> ok, thanks
Jun 25 19:40:38 <lainwir3d_> and where can i find the N950 image ?
Jun 25 19:41:46 <thiago> that I don't know
Jun 25 19:41:54 <lainwir3d_> i'll search
Jun 25 19:41:57 <lainwir3d_> thanks anyway
Jun 25 19:42:02 <lainwir3d_> :-)
Jun 25 19:45:13 <eZKaToN> #join meego-bar
Jun 25 19:45:14 <boss> eZKaToN: Error: You don't have the admin capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
Jun 25 20:36:56 * Jay_BEE waves
Jun 25 20:38:22 <sofar> oof
Jun 25 20:38:27 <sofar> toddler pool party is over
Jun 25 20:38:36 <sofar> you guys can come out and troll in here again now :)
Jun 25 20:39:25 <berndhs> i had some deep technical questions, but I forget
Jun 25 20:40:37 <alterego> Erm, I'm getting a chinese.
Jun 25 20:41:16 <timakima> i'm too busy watching ring 24h race
Jun 25 20:42:19 <berndhs> i want to make the marine IVI, does someone have funding for that ?
Jun 25 20:46:04 <wmarone> hm, I wonder if anyone tested the harmattan sdk out when using ubuntu 10.10 in virtualbox :/
Jun 25 20:49:56 <npm> is ohmd needed on the tablet-ux only for handling rotattion? (why?)
Jun 25 20:55:49 <sofar> don't think it is
Jun 25 20:56:22 <CosmoHill> dammit
Jun 25 20:56:29 <dm8tbr> berndhs: I'd implement it for free if I get a ship to test it on for indefinite usage ;)
Jun 25 20:56:32 * CosmoHill found a car he wants for cheap but his no job so no money to pay for it
Jun 25 20:56:58 * wmarone sighs, as xephyr fails to start
Jun 25 20:57:00 <npm> i turned it off and rotation stopped working, but that could be for all sorts of reasons. (last wednesday's tablet build is a real dog...)
Jun 25 20:57:05 <berndhs> dm8tbr: that's part of my strategy
Jun 25 20:57:09 <dm8tbr> :)
Jun 25 20:57:27 <npm> gone back to using xinit and mathbox...
Jun 25 20:58:32 <Venemo> good evening guys :)
Jun 25 20:58:35 <npm> feels like 1987-88 all over again :-)
Jun 25 20:58:44 <Venemo> wut?
Jun 25 20:58:59 <npm> having to use xinit and twm...
Jun 25 20:59:00 <lainwir3d_> wut?!
Jun 25 21:00:25 <npm> badness == baseurl == http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.2.0.90/1.2.0.90.5.20110621.5/repos/oss/ia32/packages
Jun 25 21:09:21 <npm> in /usr/share/applications/*.desktop i see "X-MEEGO-CGROUP-PATH=managed" and "X-MEEGO-CGROUP-CONTROLLERS=freezer" what's it do? where documented?
Jun 25 21:10:24 <npm> runs google translate on http://www.qtcn.org/bbs/read-htm-tid-43929-page-e.html
Jun 25 21:14:15 <npm> didn't help, but i did find http://www.qtcn.org/bbs/read-htm-tid-44041.html
Jun 25 21:14:33 <npm> (more pix of 950 than i've ever seen)
Jun 25 21:15:05 <npm> it looks extremely awesome
Jun 25 21:16:30 <Venemo> npm, http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia-n950-press-shots/
Jun 25 21:16:39 <Venemo> npm, notice the box in which it comes
Jun 25 21:17:22 <Venemo> although there are no pics of it open
Jun 25 21:17:26 <berndhs> a cardboard box !!
Jun 25 21:17:37 <leinir> well, more what it says on it, i guess ;)
Jun 25 21:18:15 <berndhs> yes you can make amazing things from cardboard
Jun 25 21:19:09 <Venemo> cardboard?
Jun 25 21:19:48 <berndhs> yes, use in composite materials as fiber for example
Jun 25 21:24:24 <alterego> Looks like there's more than just a phone in that "devkit" ..
Jun 25 21:24:39 <Venemo> alterego, what do you mean?
Jun 25 21:24:58 <alterego> The box just looks like an unusual size: http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia-n950-press-shots/#4243171
Jun 25 21:25:33 <Venemo> I think it only looks big on the pic.
Jun 25 21:25:46 <Venemo> in reality, I assume it might be similar size to the N900's box, only shorter maybe
Jun 25 21:26:43 <alterego> No, it's the aspect ratio
Jun 25 21:26:50 <Venemo> mhm
Jun 25 21:27:00 <Venemo> we shall see
Jun 25 21:27:51 <alterego> I'm still waiting for a book and an N8 to arrive.
Jun 25 21:30:35 <MohammadAG> is there a way to force landscape in the SDK? :P
Jun 25 21:32:12 <javispedro> sbox sdk?
Jun 25 21:32:16 <javispedro> actually, it is already forced.
Jun 25 21:32:26 <MohammadAG> javispedro, settings flips it
Jun 25 21:32:29 <javispedro> settings is just a portrait-only apps
Jun 25 21:32:31 <javispedro> *app
Jun 25 21:32:42 <MohammadAG> that's why I said force :p
Jun 25 21:32:52 <MohammadAG> also what's the correct screen res again?
Jun 25 21:33:23 <javispedro> 854x480
Jun 25 21:34:58 <lcuk> alterego, write your own book whilst you are waiting
Jun 25 21:35:13 <alterego> Heh
Jun 25 21:35:19 <alterego> I've often thought of writing a book.
Jun 25 21:39:12 <MohammadAG> aww, the wonders of using an unreleased SDK
Jun 25 21:39:16 * MohammadAG starts compiling libraries
Jun 25 21:39:45 <MohammadAG> is there a repo ala extras-devel for Harmattan?
Jun 25 21:40:49 <dm8tbr> it being 'meego' I sure hope there will be sthg on obs...
Jun 25 21:44:02 <DrGrov> Evening
Jun 25 21:44:16 <DrGrov> alterego: Hi. Are you somewhere close?
Jun 25 21:44:50 <alterego> I'm here
Jun 25 21:44:58 <alterego> MohammadAG: nope
Jun 25 21:45:03 <alterego> apps.meego.com
Jun 25 21:45:11 <alterego> But that's not enabled by default.
Jun 25 21:45:11 <MohammadAG> alterego, that's the place for libs?
Jun 25 21:45:20 <alterego> Dunno,
Jun 25 21:45:23 <DrGrov> alterego: I need to ask you a few quickies :)
Jun 25 21:45:24 <alterego> Does it matteR?
Jun 25 21:45:33 <alterego> It's not even really out yet, just use obs for the time being.
Jun 25 21:45:37 <DrGrov> alterego: Perhaps ok with a PM?
Jun 25 21:45:39 <alterego> DrGrov: sure, go ahead.
Jun 25 21:46:10 <mikecomputing> Anyone her using scratchbox and Xephyr with Nvidia card?
Jun 25 21:46:24 <MohammadAG> alterego, instead of wasting multiple efforts, we'd start sending libs now :P
Jun 25 21:46:37 <MohammadAG> stuff like qjson etc
Jun 25 21:46:37 <MohammadAG> mikecomputing, worksforme
Jun 25 21:47:33 <alterego> You obviously don't get how obs works MohammadAG
Jun 25 21:47:35 <javispedro> MohammadAG: there's this meego thing, they are like a distro =)
Jun 25 21:47:35 <alterego> it's not wasted
Jun 25 21:47:36 <mikecomputing> MohammadAG, have problem with redrawing here
Jun 25 21:47:39 <alterego> It's one build.
Jun 25 21:47:49 <MohammadAG> alterego, can others use it?
Jun 25 21:48:12 <MohammadAG> alterego, and no, I don't get the whole concept of OBS, never looked into it :P
Jun 25 21:48:41 <alterego> MohammadAG: yes
Jun 25 21:49:00 <alterego> And when your happy with the package, you promote it to "apps" or whatever.
Jun 25 21:49:50 <MohammadAG> alterego, and where do tools like "git" live?
Jun 25 21:49:58 <MohammadAG> afaik Fremantle had an SDK repo
Jun 25 21:50:07 <alterego> Erm,
Jun 25 21:50:14 <alterego> What has git got to do with packaging
Jun 25 21:51:11 <MohammadAG> you don't get my point
Jun 25 21:51:51 <MohammadAG> If a tool's package is missing, I'd normally just package it up and ship it to -devel, how does that concept work on MeeGo?
Jun 25 21:52:28 <alterego> Using obs
Jun 25 21:52:32 <alterego> Like I just f'ing said
Jun 25 21:53:05 <alterego> Every user creates a project, each project is comprised of many packages and they can be exposed through a repository.
Jun 25 21:58:56 <Venemo_> MohammadAG, MeeGo has its own repo
Jun 25 21:59:00 <alterego> MohammadAG: So everyone has their own repositories.
Jun 25 21:59:04 <Venemo_> MohammadAG, about Harmattan, it's not yet clear
Jun 25 21:59:15 <Venemo_> anyway, good night now
Jun 25 21:59:21 <alterego> You then submit you package/s to a "main" repository.
Jun 25 21:59:46 <MohammadAG> I'm guessing that doesn't exist yet (for debs)
Jun 25 22:17:57 <IcanCU> has elop annouced meego dead?
Jun 25 22:18:06 <berndhs> no
Jun 25 22:20:24 * sofar facepalms
Jun 25 22:21:09 <CosmoHill> or yes, whatever makes you leave faster
Jun 25 22:21:25 <Jay_BEE> heh.
Jun 25 23:21:00 <me11er> ру есть?
Jun 25 23:22:15 <me11er> hi, how to run the cd-image meego with  grub4dos?
Jun 25 23:28:07 <sofar> me11er: what exactly do you want to do? Is there a reason you can't just boot from the usb image directly?
Jun 25 23:33:15 <me11er> I have a 16GB flash drive for a few more boot-images, and useful software, I do not want to demolish all
Jun 25 23:33:46 <sofar> the MeeGo images (netbook 1.2) are not file systems that can just be booted by a normal boot loader.
Jun 25 23:33:58 <sofar> You don't have another USB drive ?
Jun 25 23:34:19 <me11er> yep
Jun 25 23:34:42 <sofar> then you'll have to convert it yourself or build a raw filesystem image yourself
Jun 25 23:35:28 <me11er> I have even thought about it, now try on a virtual machine
Jun 25 23:35:46 <sofar> that might work
Jun 25 23:37:26 <wdouglas> http://people.ofset.org/~ckhung/p/mk-boot-usb/index.en.php there are a few utilities for trying to load multiple images to one usb
Jun 25 23:43:50 <Termana> morning
Jun 25 23:45:55 <me11er> hi
Jun 25 23:58:05 <berndhs> i should move to a different time zone
Jun 26 00:05:38 <CosmoHill> berndhs: try 28 hour days
Jun 26 00:06:29 <berndhs> I suppose if I lived in a cave, the daylight wouldn't matter
Jun 26 00:11:58 <Chris81> Hello @all
Jun 26 00:12:17 <berndhs> howdy
Jun 26 00:13:09 <Chris81> I got a little question: I installed meego 1.2 and I cannot find thunderbird via zypper. Is it still in the repos?
Jun 26 00:13:34 <Chris81> is there an repo with thunderbird in it?
Jun 26 00:19:43 <berndhs> Chris81: for 1.2, probably not
Jun 26 00:20:18 <Chris81> strange they where in the repos for 1.0
Jun 26 00:20:34 <Chris81> where can I find comunity repos
Jun 26 00:20:37 <Chris81> ?
Jun 26 00:21:07 <berndhs> build.pub.meego.com has community repos
Jun 26 00:23:01 <rafael2k_> people, the is the summer release up?
Jun 26 00:23:27 <Jay_BEE> rafael2k_:  yes http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Summer_Release
Jun 26 00:23:41 <rafael2k_> great!
Jun 26 00:23:42 <rafael2k_> ; )
Jun 26 00:23:45 <Chris81> build.pub.meego.com has sadly only a few apps
Jun 26 00:24:04 <berndhs> it has all *my* apps, so its not my fault :P
Jun 26 00:25:48 <Chris81> :)
Jun 26 00:26:41 <MSM> :)
Jun 26 00:42:44 <me11er> hm
Jun 26 00:44:56 <me11er> я загрузил образ meego с помощью grub4dos, но при инициализации установки на этапе определения устройств меня выкидывает в bash с ошибкой монтирования /dev/root
Jun 26 00:44:59 <me11er> щзы
Jun 26 00:45:01 <me11er> ops
Jun 26 00:45:22 <me11er> I booted the image using meego grub4dos, but when initializing installation stage device definitions throws me an error in bash mount / dev / root
Jun 26 01:31:43 <abhy> join #meego-arm
Jun 26 01:36:41 <carter_> i just installed the Nokia Qt SDK - but only see Qt simulator and Desktop as options to target - not maemo5, harmattan
Jun 26 01:36:48 <carter_> anyone know why ?
Jun 26 01:39:12 <ali1234> basically because it sucks
Jun 26 01:39:42 <ali1234> you need to enable maemo 5 support by configuring the madde stuff
Jun 26 01:39:59 <ali1234> there's no support for harmatten or meego
Jun 26 01:40:41 <ali1234> see http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtcreator-2.0-snapshot/creator-developing-maemo.html
Jun 26 01:41:30 <wmarone> ali1234: you sure? In the device config I can select between Maemo5/Fremantle, Harmattan, and Meego
Jun 26 01:41:52 <ali1234> not really sure no
Jun 26 01:41:57 <ali1234> did you install extra sdks?
Jun 26 01:42:17 <wmarone> I grabbed the harmattan update that was pushed back on tuesday
Jun 26 01:42:39 <ali1234> when i say "no support" i mean it isn't incuded in the main download with everything else and has to be installed and configured manually
Jun 26 01:42:55 <wmarone> yeah
Jun 26 01:43:00 <wmarone> you can add it, fairly easily too
Jun 26 01:43:01 <ali1234> that is, you have to install a SDK and then enter in the SDK paths into the the config thing
Jun 26 01:43:54 <ali1234> considering how much i heard about the online installer that gets "only the parts you need"
Jun 26 01:44:04 <ali1234> i would have thought it would be easy to add on extra SDKs using that
Jun 26 01:44:39 <carter_> ok cool, i thought i was just plagued by bad luck - learning and its kinda hard i just moved to ubuntu and had problem accessing internet there because of broadcom card
Jun 26 01:45:15 <ali1234> carter_: it's not your fault
Jun 26 01:45:16 <carter_> is there a way to sudo apt-get this from terminal ? someone just mentioned i have to install other SDK's...
Jun 26 01:45:23 <ali1234> this stuff should just work
Jun 26 01:45:32 <carter_> yeah for sure
Jun 26 01:45:56 <ali1234> hmm well i think there is a repo for meego sdk on ubuntu actually
Jun 26 01:46:14 <ali1234> but it's not as simple as apt-get because it's not part of official ubuntu either
Jun 26 01:46:22 <ali1234> you have to add the repo and such
Jun 26 01:46:34 <ali1234> not sure if that's even the recommended way to do it any more
Jun 26 01:46:40 <carter_> hmm
Jun 26 01:46:56 <carter_> im learning you have to figure a lot of stuff out to be a developer
Jun 26 01:47:08 <carter_> you guys have patience of a saint !
Jun 26 01:47:47 <twoboxen> does anyone have experience running the simulator on osx in the QtSDK?
Jun 26 01:47:50 <ali1234> sadly meego is one of the worser development experiences
Jun 26 01:47:57 <ali1234> in terms of getting everything set up
Jun 26 01:48:04 <twoboxen> that's what I'm noticing
Jun 26 01:48:18 <twoboxen> WebOS and Android are really nice
Jun 26 01:48:27 <twoboxen> iOS is pretty good (assuming you have a mac)
Jun 26 01:48:30 <twoboxen> blackberry sucks
Jun 26 01:48:48 <ali1234> blackberry is the worst by a long way
Jun 26 01:49:07 <twoboxen> definitely :)
Jun 26 01:49:12 <ali1234> but i think they are specifically trying to discourage small time developers in favour of large corporations
Jun 26 01:49:14 <twoboxen> their company is going down anyways
Jun 26 01:49:23 <twoboxen> I work for a large corporation
Jun 26 01:49:25 <twoboxen> it still sucks :)
Jun 26 01:49:27 <ali1234> lol
Jun 26 01:49:37 <ali1234> interesting :)
Jun 26 01:50:13 <ali1234> personally i never even managed to find all the downloads i need
Jun 26 01:50:32 <twoboxen> yeah, authenticated on download is ridiculous
Jun 26 01:50:37 <twoboxen> (apple?)
Jun 26 01:50:53 <twoboxen> So what IS the simulator included with the QtSDK?
Jun 26 01:51:00 <carter_> so I see meego packaging tools in the syanptic manager in 11.4 + mic2 an image creator tool and banshee meego - media management and playback --- is this the repo you spoke of Ali1234
Jun 26 01:51:01 <twoboxen> i haven't used Qt since 4.1 on desktop
Jun 26 01:51:44 <ali1234> carter_: no idea, lots of repos have those packages
Jun 26 01:51:48 <carter_> i am a relative noob so im either using u great laughter or confusion !
Jun 26 01:51:50 <ali1234> the question is are they the right versions?
Jun 26 01:52:11 <carter_> damn there should be some solid how to wiki out there on this
Jun 26 01:52:43 <ali1234> there is somewhere
Jun 26 01:52:47 <ali1234> i don't have a link, sorry
Jun 26 01:52:50 <carter_> like this for maemo -- http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation
Jun 26 01:53:05 <ali1234> http://developer.meego.com/meego-sdk
Jun 26 01:53:08 <carter_> no probs - i am learning patience :)
Jun 26 01:53:39 <carter_> ah yes but i have 11.4 an unsupported version
Jun 26 01:53:51 <twoboxen> big sad face:  Coming Fall 2011. Check back for more details.
Jun 26 01:53:56 <carter_> i think i have to use a VM
Jun 26 01:54:04 <carter_> lol
Jun 26 01:54:22 <twoboxen> so what the crap is : http://www.developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/da8df288-e615-443d-be5c-00c8a72435f8/Qt_SDK.html
Jun 26 01:54:53 <ali1234> i have *no* idea
Jun 26 01:54:57 <ali1234> i thought they were on 2.0 already
Jun 26 01:55:01 <twoboxen> :)
Jun 26 01:55:03 <ali1234> go and ask them on #qt
Jun 26 01:55:50 <carter_> i think this is what i need to see harmattan as an option to target
Jun 26 01:56:18 <ali1234> looks like it could be
Jun 26 01:57:05 <twoboxen> but on this page (http://www.developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/da8df288-e615-443d-be5c-00c8a72435f8/Qt_SDK.html) they talk about support for the N9
Jun 26 01:57:23 <TSCHAKeee> seriously, wtf is going on?
Jun 26 01:57:29 <carter_> right, but not out the gate - remember this is nokia..
Jun 26 01:57:31 <ali1234> the N9 runs hamatten
Jun 26 01:57:34 <carter_> love them and hate them
Jun 26 01:58:01 <TSCHAKeee> i never thought a company could top Commodore-Amiga in both awesome technology and sheer stupidity
Jun 26 01:58:08 <TSCHAKeee> turns out, i only needed to wait
Jun 26 01:58:12 <TSCHAKeee> :P
Jun 26 01:59:41 <twoboxen> :)
Jun 26 02:00:04 <twoboxen> It started with Symbian, then went to Maemo… I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Intel didn't save them
Jun 26 02:00:07 <twoboxen> same compay
Jun 26 02:00:16 <twoboxen> *company
Jun 26 02:02:49 <twoboxen> all devs should get a free phone for having to deal with something that is 90% awesome and 10% impossible
Jun 26 02:03:58 <carter_> why cant they just state at the top of the SDK - you will need to add this and that and that located here to target maemo, meego and symbian
Jun 26 02:04:23 <carter_> nevermind, that would be logical
Jun 26 02:04:41 <carter_> just like selling the n950, but lets not go there
Jun 26 02:06:40 <twoboxen> :)
Jun 26 02:12:43 <carter_> so i downloaded the sdk thing you found twoboxen and ubuntu made me install 40 files
Jun 26 02:13:12 <twoboxen> i don't know what that means… you mean supporting packages?
Jun 26 02:13:55 <carter_> yeah sorry that was ali1234 that told me that
Jun 26 02:14:18 <carter_> i did download this http://www.developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/da8df288-e615-443d-be5c-00c8a72435f8/Qt_SDK.html
Jun 26 02:14:58 <carter_> seems exactly like what i did before to get nokia qt sdk 2.2.1
Jun 26 02:15:42 <twoboxen> Looks like i'm waiting until the fall
Jun 26 02:15:49 <twoboxen> I don't want to waste more time on this
Jun 26 02:16:25 <carter_> unreal isn't it - i am a noob and dont want to wait im hyped to learn now -- og the irony
Jun 26 02:17:32 <twoboxen> I'm not even a noob… but I don't have the patience for this anymore
Jun 26 02:17:41 <twoboxen> I'm happy to spend time being productive
Jun 26 02:17:57 <twoboxen> but setting up an environment better be 1. contained and 2. trivial
Jun 26 02:18:29 <ali1234> +1 that sums it up exactly
Jun 26 02:18:37 <carter_> me too, but figuring out how to be productive is too hard, you're correct - and i assume you have some dev experience  behind you
Jun 26 02:18:47 <twoboxen> significant
Jun 26 02:19:00 <carter_> right
Jun 26 02:19:05 <twoboxen> I have developed both professionally and personally for about every mobile os
Jun 26 02:19:34 <carter_> i emailed a couple of people today and mentioned that it should be easy for people to learn Qt and jump on the MeeGo train
Jun 26 02:19:45 <twoboxen> I really want meego to succeed… by Nokia or otherwise.  I want a REAL linux phone that is not openmoko fugly
Jun 26 02:19:59 <carter_> currently it is not and i'd like to create a resource to solve this
Jun 26 02:20:04 <twoboxen> yeah
Jun 26 02:20:35 <carter_> me too, i think if they stuck the N9 and n950 with same specs they'd be going in the right direction -- i hope the board gets rid of elop
Jun 26 02:20:43 <twoboxen> being on a business trip and being able to hook up to an HDMI monitor with kbd (usb, bt, i don't care) and open a terminal would be suhweet
Jun 26 02:20:51 <twoboxen> without packing laptop i mean
Jun 26 02:20:55 <carter_> yeah
Jun 26 02:21:05 <carter_> i can see the awesome in that
Jun 26 02:21:14 <carter_> do you have a n900
Jun 26 02:21:19 <twoboxen> is prepping Nokia to be wholly owned or absorbed by M$
Jun 26 02:21:26 <twoboxen> I did, yes
Jun 26 02:21:26 <carter_> indeed.
Jun 26 02:21:36 <twoboxen> sold it last year… had a g2 after that
Jun 26 02:21:42 <carter_> did most of that above right ? except hdmi
Jun 26 02:22:17 <twoboxen> phones i own or have owned and dev'd for:  N1, G2, pre, pre2, bb9700, bb9800, n900, HTD HD7, iPhone, iPhone 3gs
Jun 26 02:22:40 <twoboxen> sorry don't understand your ?
Jun 26 02:22:48 <twoboxen> did most of what?
Jun 26 02:22:57 <carter_> i mean opening the terminal with the n900
Jun 26 02:23:01 <twoboxen> o yeah
Jun 26 02:23:02 <twoboxen> def
Jun 26 02:23:06 <twoboxen> it was great
Jun 26 02:23:17 <twoboxen> too bad it was a brick and the calendar and phone were atrocious
Jun 26 02:23:23 <twoboxen> i couldn't use it as every day carry
Jun 26 02:23:29 <twoboxen> phone calls were so inconsistent
Jun 26 02:23:33 <carter_> all nokia had to do was add hdmi and sort out those quirks you mention
Jun 26 02:23:36 <carter_> perhaps add NFC
Jun 26 02:23:39 <carter_> boom
Jun 26 02:23:40 <twoboxen> yeah
Jun 26 02:23:47 <carter_> my phone for next 3years
Jun 26 02:23:57 <twoboxen> tidy up the package as well… a little thinner, spec it up a touch
Jun 26 02:24:09 <carter_> yeah n950 seems perfect, did u apply to get one
Jun 26 02:24:13 <twoboxen> I did
Jun 26 02:24:19 <twoboxen> only 250?  I seriously doubt i get one
Jun 26 02:24:30 <carter_> seems very illogical
Jun 26 02:24:33 <twoboxen> don't you have to send request to that email addy?  Anything else?
Jun 26 02:24:47 <carter_> not that i know of
Jun 26 02:25:04 <carter_> i have been waiting for that phone for 18months
Jun 26 02:25:19 <carter_> then they say were not gonna sell it and only loaning 250
Jun 26 02:25:21 <carter_> haha
Jun 26 02:25:26 <carter_> bastards!
Jun 26 02:25:27 <twoboxen> this address, nokia.developer.launchpad@nokia.com, right?
Jun 26 02:25:32 <carter_> yeah
Jun 26 02:25:42 <twoboxen> what are the terms of the loan?
Jun 26 02:25:47 <MohammadAG> that's if you're a commercial dev afaik
Jun 26 02:25:49 <carter_> hopefully i get one i am startup founder
Jun 26 02:25:49 <twoboxen> does anyone know?
Jun 26 02:25:58 <twoboxen> yeah, good luck
Jun 26 02:26:10 <carter_> yeah thanks i will need it :)
Jun 26 02:26:16 <twoboxen> purchasing will be more than iPhone4s/5
Jun 26 02:26:20 <twoboxen> UNLOCKED.
Jun 26 02:26:35 <twoboxen> I hold no hope for me getting one :)
Jun 26 02:26:41 <carter_> so sad !
Jun 26 02:26:51 <carter_> and i would good money for it myself
Jun 26 02:26:54 <carter_> *pay
Jun 26 02:27:14 <twoboxen> yeah.  I'm actually thinking i'd like the n9 more
Jun 26 02:27:37 <twoboxen> b/c with my iPad for example, i end up using the bt kbd more often for actual work (emails, text, dev, etc)
Jun 26 02:27:57 <twoboxen> the occasion where i need the power of hwkbd and don't have time to setup the main kbd is rare
Jun 26 02:28:10 <twoboxen> (and I was ALWAYS a hwkbd zealot)
Jun 26 02:28:25 <carter_> hmmm yeah i can see that w/tablet that might die
Jun 26 02:28:45 <carter_> i was thinking about going only ipad
Jun 26 02:28:49 <carter_> one device
Jun 26 02:28:54 <twoboxen> i don't know what the thickness of the n950 is, though… if it were about the thickness of the n9 i'd def go for it though
Jun 26 02:29:02 <twoboxen> no, i don't' even use it much
Jun 26 02:29:14 <twoboxen> needs more ram and multitasking :)
Jun 26 02:29:14 <carter_> people say that
Jun 26 02:29:20 <twoboxen> i got it through work
Jun 26 02:29:23 <carter_> ipad2?
Jun 26 02:29:25 <twoboxen> i certainly wouldn't pay for it
Jun 26 02:29:29 <carter_> ha!
Jun 26 02:29:32 <twoboxen> 1, but my iPad2 is coming next week
Jun 26 02:29:42 <carter_> they say its mch smoother
Jun 26 02:29:51 <twoboxen> yeah, double ram and proc
Jun 26 02:30:26 <twoboxen> i'd still rather have one device which can be my everyday
Jun 26 02:30:35 <twoboxen> a larger phone rather than a small tablet
Jun 26 02:30:56 <twoboxen> even though you look ridiculous holding next to head for a call… that's why they make headsets and bt
Jun 26 02:32:58 <carter_> exactly
Jun 26 02:33:14 <carter_> well im going to try and conquer settig up this development environment
Jun 26 02:33:30 <carter_> good luck with that right !
Jun 26 02:34:16 <twoboxen> indeed :)
Jun 26 02:37:32 <carter_> http://library.developer.nokia.com/
Jun 26 02:37:39 <thebootroo_> hello
Jun 26 02:37:51 <thebootroo_> i puhsed another great update to my gitorious !
Jun 26 02:37:59 <thebootroo_> event timeline ala thebootroo
Jun 26 02:38:06 <thebootroo_> http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=23307#post23307
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Jun 26 02:59:57 2011