**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jul 10 02:59:58 2011
Jul 10 05:30:07 <dm8tbr> mood groaning
Jul 10 06:20:32 <npm> emacs' M-x battery saves the day...
Jul 10 07:34:58 <mikelima> Hi all
Jul 10 07:35:04 <Stskeeps> hi
Jul 10 07:36:37 <mikelima> hi Stskeeps! I am trying to port my application to Harmattan... and I encountered some stumbling blocks. Or at least I have a few doubts.
Jul 10 07:37:18 <Stskeeps> ah, i can't help you there
Jul 10 07:37:23 * Stskeeps only deals with meego.com
Jul 10 07:37:37 <mikelima> ah, yes, all right.
Jul 10 07:38:11 <mikelima> Is meego-devel the right channel for this kind of questions?
Jul 10 07:38:27 <Stskeeps> no, but i think the nokia developer forums would be a good place
Jul 10 07:38:30 <Stskeeps> on developer.nokia.com
Jul 10 07:39:16 <mikelima> right, thanks.
Jul 10 07:39:42 <Stskeeps> (there are representatives from the platform SDK/harmattan team on there, fwiw)
Jul 10 07:39:56 <mikelima> Stskeeps: by the way, sorry to see you leave talk.maemo.org
Jul 10 07:40:16 <Stskeeps> it seems like it had the good effect of making the place productive again
Jul 10 07:40:22 <Stskeeps> and causing less toxicity
Jul 10 07:40:26 <Stskeeps> i still read the place but not contributing
Jul 10 07:42:15 <mikelima> right, I do not blame you, I only miss the good content! :)
Jul 10 07:42:20 <Stskeeps> hehe
Jul 10 07:42:26 <Stskeeps> forum.meego.com and #meego-arm for that :)
Jul 10 07:42:44 <mikelima> yes, I have started following those too.
Jul 10 07:43:19 <mikelima> Although I am not that much into forums... Old fashioned mailing-list reader here :)
Jul 10 07:43:23 <Stskeeps> :nod:
Jul 10 07:43:33 <Stskeeps> meego-handset@ is sometimes informative
Jul 10 07:43:59 <mikelima> yes, I check the archives from time to time...
Jul 10 07:44:13 <mikelima> Actually it is not that high volume I could subscribe too.
Jul 10 08:48:48 <CosmoHill> hey Stskeeps
Jul 10 09:01:47 <dm8tbr> http://www.debian.org/reports/patent-faq hmmmm
Jul 10 09:05:14 <Termana> mmm patents. This can only be yummy.
Jul 10 09:13:46 <dm8tbr> I still wonder if it would make sense to have a mechanism to allow people to compile 'critical' packages themselves
Jul 10 09:14:27 <dm8tbr> like only serve an SRPM and have some nice frontend that turns that into an properly installed RPM on the device
Jul 10 09:24:25 <CosmoHill> you mean like the tool that some distros have that allows them to compile and install a custom kernel via the distros package manager?
Jul 10 09:25:32 <dm8tbr> along those lines, yeah
Jul 10 09:25:58 <dm8tbr> distributing source code is less problematic in patent-land
Jul 10 09:26:41 <dm8tbr> ofc such things wouldn't fly with devices that have e.g. aegis, but there it's the OEM's responsibility to provide whichever codecs are needed
Jul 10 09:26:56 <dm8tbr> and pay the licensing
Jul 10 09:57:13 * CosmoHill finds his Debian Linux 4.0 coaster
Jul 10 09:58:29 <dm8tbr> I have plenty of *buntu coasters
Jul 10 09:58:52 <dm8tbr> every time I go to some conference my old CDs/DVDs become coasters...
Jul 10 10:01:10 <CosmoHill> I used to sell Debian and Fedora DVDs
Jul 10 10:01:25 <CosmoHill> between my DVD-RW drive and my printer I gave up
Jul 10 10:01:54 <CosmoHill> I tried making a nice Fedora 15 disc recently for me, now every time I handle it I end up with blue hands
Jul 10 10:05:37 * CosmoHill seems to have misplaced a motherboard
Jul 10 10:34:31 <CosmoHill> I used to wonder how people could use netbooks cos of the lack of optical drive. But my optical drive hasn't worked in many months and I get on just fine
Jul 10 10:41:32 <dm8tbr> :)
Jul 10 10:42:05 <dm8tbr> I seldomly ever use optical drives any more. if I do I have the option of an slim USB drive
Jul 10 10:43:27 <CosmoHill> do you remember when video recorders (VHS) used to chew up tapes? that's what my DVD-RW drive does in my laptop
Jul 10 10:43:53 <Aard> CosmoHill: well, just don't put tapes into your dvd-rw drive...
Jul 10 10:44:05 * CosmoHill ponders turning his powerbook isn't a fancy juke box
Jul 10 10:44:54 <dm8tbr> CosmoHill: have you tried inserting a 3.5in floppy or what? :D
Jul 10 10:45:13 <dm8tbr> http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Supported-Image-Formats,-The-Dreaded-Zebra,-and-The-Unfix.aspx
Jul 10 10:46:03 <dm8tbr> http://globalnerdy.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/floppy_fail.jpg alternatively
Jul 10 10:49:03 <pebcak> haven't used a optical drive on my laptops since the first x-series thinkpad I bought ;)
Jul 10 10:49:56 <dm8tbr> I only ever used the drive in the x-series docking bay a handfull of times
Jul 10 10:54:00 <CosmoHill> lol
Jul 10 10:54:03 <Stskeeps> only for burning cds, personally
Jul 10 10:54:43 <CosmoHill> hey Stskeeps
Jul 10 10:54:54 <CosmoHill> you might want to look at this morning's logs
Jul 10 10:55:08 <Stskeeps> i saw it, can't do much about it until he comes back
Jul 10 10:55:39 <CosmoHill> I'm assuming you guys were either asleep or enjoying your Saturday afternoon
Jul 10 10:55:50 <Stskeeps> and banning t-dialin.net isn't an option
Jul 10 10:56:52 <CosmoHill> that would be punishing the masses
Jul 10 11:51:21 <pebcak> Stskeeps it isn't?
Jul 10 12:45:20 <lcuk> alterego, which app did you install on your n8?
Jul 10 12:45:30 <lcuk> and did you manage to install same thing on your c5?
Jul 10 12:48:12 <alterego> lcuk: not tried the C5
Jul 10 12:48:23 <alterego> It was just a QML hello world example from the SDK
Jul 10 12:48:33 <alterego> Oh, and the Dial widget QML example .
Jul 10 12:49:55 <lcuk> alterego, why not columbus!
Jul 10 12:54:16 <alterego> Working on it ;)
Jul 10 13:46:54 <BluesLee> can someone help out with Harmattan Platform SDK (scratchbox)?
Jul 10 13:47:15 <CosmoHill> dm8tbr: the daily wtf has some really good writers
Jul 10 13:47:36 <dm8tbr> CosmoHill: yep, and alex has some big fans in Finland *gnihihi*
Jul 10 14:01:22 <Bostik> judging byy the amount salmiac he receives, plenty :)
Jul 10 14:02:46 <CosmoHill> dm8tbr: so far I've learnt I should avoid admins called Tim
Jul 10 14:03:19 <dm8tbr> and developers called Paula
Jul 10 14:04:23 <CosmoHill> and managers called Steve
Jul 10 14:19:35 <berndhs> disk partitioning, another example how this industry sticks to stupid standards for a looong time
Jul 10 14:21:49 <berndhs> well, not stupid at the beginning, more ad-hoc, but 30 years later its stupid to keep doing it
Jul 10 14:26:17 <CosmoHill> dm8tbr: I'm starting to wonder if some of these people in these stories are the same
Jul 10 14:26:24 <CosmoHill> just read two stories in a row about Ryan
Jul 10 14:27:44 <berndhs> for the last time : http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html
Jul 10 14:35:54 <dm8tbr> CosmoHill: obligatory is also watching 'office space' and fill out a TPS report about it!
Jul 10 14:36:07 * dm8tbr sends out a memo about the new cover sheet
Jul 10 14:38:40 * CosmoHill wonders if dm8tbr has any idea how distracting that website has been to him
Jul 10 14:40:11 <dm8tbr> CosmoHill: yep, it's inhibited my productivity a good deal too
Jul 10 14:40:25 <CosmoHill> I was so close to finishing cleaning my room
Jul 10 14:42:21 * Stskeeps ponders idly if it is possible to extract qml imports in rpm like it is for python/perl
Jul 10 14:43:01 <Stskeeps> ie, Requires: qml(QtQuick) >= 1.0 automatic generation
Jul 10 14:51:14 <javispedro> Stskeeps: aegis does it ;)
Jul 10 14:51:26 <javispedro> with regexps only
Jul 10 14:51:41 <Stskeeps> hm, interesting
Jul 10 14:51:47 <javispedro> well, a bit of logic to retrieve qml src from qrc, then does the regexps.
Jul 10 14:51:57 <javispedro> *compiled qrc.
Jul 10 14:52:05 <Stskeeps> could be good to have
Jul 10 14:52:44 <javispedro> the code is on /usr/bin/aegis-manifest (perl script), grep for qml_match
Jul 10 17:44:39 * npm just got http://simile-widgets.org/exhibit/ running locally in qtwebkit
Jul 10 17:45:05 <npm> it was way too easy
Jul 10 17:45:23 <npm> now to get QML to spew JSON at it...
Jul 10 17:45:53 <npm> and i just made UI-making a lot easier
Jul 10 17:46:54 * npm looks for some complicated qt-based sparql source to feed it ? contacts? media?
Jul 10 17:48:02 * IanWizard can't wait till october for 1.3
Jul 10 17:49:20 <IanWizard> I've never actually gotten to play with a working meego.  When 1.3 hits, I'll port it over to my phone (waiting for CDMA).
Jul 10 18:02:46 <IanWizard> It seems quiet in here.
Jul 10 18:15:41 <Stskeeps> IanWizard: weekdays are usually better
Jul 10 18:16:47 <gabriel_> Stskeeps: \o.
Jul 10 18:17:11 * lbt just got back from an 'empeg' meet :)
Jul 10 18:18:00 <gabriel_> lbt: That reminds me... is your N9 also a LBT ?
Jul 10 18:18:02 <lbt> empeg == ~1999 199Mhz ARM car stereo (running linux of course)
Jul 10 18:18:19 <lbt> gabriel_: no N9 yet... N950 on the way!
Jul 10 18:18:36 <gabriel_> only one color?
Jul 10 18:18:39 <gabriel_> :-)
Jul 10 18:18:42 <lbt> yeah
Jul 10 18:19:00 <lbt> but the empeg team (ie the guys who did the HW design) are now looking for a replacement...
Jul 10 18:20:39 <gabriel_> replacement... for the empeg?  Too hard to buy parts these days?
Jul 10 18:20:59 <lbt> getting there
Jul 10 18:21:15 <lbt> they used lots of reasonably low volume HW
Jul 10 18:21:26 <lbt> so VFD display panel
Jul 10 18:21:57 <lbt> but the electronics were industial level (temp/vibration proof), the chassis was stainless steel
Jul 10 18:22:02 <lbt> so they last a treat
Jul 10 18:23:55 <gabriel_> :nod:
Jul 10 18:25:26 <lbt> thing is they know what they're doing at the HW level .. so they're thinking of doing opensource HW design and finding a way to get low-volume mfg setup (ie as low as 10s of unit runs)
Jul 10 18:26:22 <lbt> anyhow if anything comes of it I'll say
Jul 10 18:27:11 <gabriel_> Sounds like fun.  With those volumes, though, makes more sense to do it as a DIY kit or something.
Jul 10 18:27:33 <gabriel_> well... "makes more sense" isn't really what I mean...
Jul 10 18:27:41 <IanWizard> lbt, what / who are we talking about?
Jul 10 18:27:52 <gabriel_> more like "might be worth considering"
Jul 10 18:28:11 <lbt> gabriel_: it's likely actually
Jul 10 18:28:24 <gabriel_> IanWizard: the empeg car stero system.  An ARM-based, linux-based thing.
Jul 10 18:28:29 <gabriel_> from about 1999.
Jul 10 18:29:01 <IanWizard> gabriel_, ok, thx.
Jul 10 18:29:09 <lbt> :)
Jul 10 18:29:24 <lbt> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empeg_Car
Jul 10 18:30:33 <Myrtti> *yawn*
Jul 10 18:33:54 <Venemo> good morning
Jul 10 18:34:52 <gabrbedd> Venemo: howdy!
Jul 10 18:35:42 <gabrbedd> MeeGo SDK question:  The installer failed for me on Ubuntu 11.04.... so does anyone know where the .raw image and madde .conf files get stored in /opt/meego ?
Jul 10 18:36:23 <Venemo> hey gabrbedd, how're you today? :)
Jul 10 18:38:53 <gabrbedd> Venemo: a little warm... but allright. (air conditioner out)
Jul 10 18:39:09 <gabrbedd> Venemo: yourself?
Jul 10 18:42:14 <Venemo> gabrbedd: the weather's how, and I'm loaded with todos... but I'm well, thank you :)
Jul 10 18:42:23 <Venemo> s/how/hot
Jul 10 18:43:31 <Stskeeps> lo gabrbedd
Jul 10 18:48:32 <lcuk> gabrbedd, Stskeeps, Venemo, lbt  \o
Jul 10 18:48:43 <Venemo> lcuk, o7
Jul 10 18:49:11 <gabrbedd> lcuk: hello!  getting much sleep these days?
Jul 10 18:49:55 <lcuk> not really but it is good to be doing other stuff
Jul 10 18:50:06 * SpeedEvil passes lcuk a pair of noise cancelling in-ear-phones.
Jul 10 18:50:15 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, the baby is peaceful
Jul 10 18:53:44 <SpeedEvil> :)
Jul 10 18:53:54 <SpeedEvil> Some are, some aren't.
Jul 10 18:54:07 <SpeedEvil> Puts things into perspective though.
Jul 10 19:03:31 <lcuk> lbt, the empeg stuff, is there scope to run meego on it?
Jul 10 19:03:56 <lcuk> or is the hardware they want not 3d
Jul 10 19:04:00 <SpeedEvil> The early stuff seems very unlikely
Jul 10 19:04:08 <SpeedEvil> It had something like 16M of RAM
Jul 10 19:04:41 <lbt> lcuk: yes, it seems possible ... the 3D thing may be the issue
Jul 10 19:04:53 <lcuk> for full compliance maybe
Jul 10 19:05:00 <lcuk> but if they use meego core + a 2d ux
Jul 10 19:05:36 <lbt> I think it would be using MeeGo rather than being MeeGo
Jul 10 19:05:54 <lbt> certainly the issue may be where the App UI is displayed
Jul 10 19:06:35 <gabrbedd> lbt: +1
Jul 10 19:06:45 <lbt> we're thinking of  options including having no display and using a phone as a display device
Jul 10 19:06:55 <lcuk> lbt :)
Jul 10 19:07:15 <lbt> also specific DIN sized display with wifi or bluetooth
Jul 10 19:07:15 <lcuk> like old car stereos - where you take the control panel in your pocket when you get out of the car
Jul 10 19:07:19 <lbt> yeah
Jul 10 19:07:37 <lcuk> requires a phone with good dock support
Jul 10 19:07:41 <lbt> but also having a BT control stalk
Jul 10 19:07:44 <gabrbedd> Seems like MeeGo is a good option if they want a gooey front-end display.  Otherwise, yocto
Jul 10 19:07:47 <lcuk> ie n900 usb placement would make it upside down
Jul 10 19:07:55 <lcuk> n8 would be feasible in landscape mode
Jul 10 19:08:17 <lbt> the device would simply be visual display only
Jul 10 19:08:25 <lbt> maybe no UI feedback
Jul 10 19:08:38 <lbt> instead having physical BT controls
Jul 10 19:09:14 <lbt> gabrbedd: yeah - but I'd like it to work well on a device that *does* have 3D
Jul 10 19:09:39 <lcuk> lbt sensible - so this is for proper car stareo carputer placement?
Jul 10 19:09:44 <lbt> yes
Jul 10 19:09:48 <lcuk> :D
Jul 10 19:09:57 <lcuk> real buttons are indeed required then!
Jul 10 19:10:27 <lbt> *nod*
Jul 10 19:10:40 <lcuk> how is the garden project coming on?
Jul 10 19:10:59 <gabrbedd> well guys, it's 96F here (35C) and my laptop is pretty warm... so I'm signing off...
Jul 10 19:11:03 <Stskeeps> have fun
Jul 10 19:11:22 <gabrbedd> Hope y'all have a good evening or day or whatever your $(date) is. :-)
Jul 10 19:11:31 <Venemo> gabrbedd, my laptop is hotter
Jul 10 19:11:35 <lbt> lcuk: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150277789510350.381131.638635349
Jul 10 19:11:54 <lbt> gabrbedd: go chill :)
Jul 10 19:11:58 <gabrbedd> Venemo: :-)
Jul 10 19:12:21 <Venemo> gabrbedd, when I'm running a game, it goes even hotter.
Jul 10 19:12:26 <Venemo> but it works
Jul 10 20:18:44 <Jaffa> Ev'ning, all
Jul 10 20:19:02 <berndhs> middle of the afternoon
Jul 10 20:19:50 <CosmoHill> late evening
Jul 10 20:36:45 <CosmoHill> dm8tbr: and I thought facebook was a black hole...
Jul 10 20:37:03 <dm8tbr> CosmoHill: still reading? :D
Jul 10 20:37:10 <CosmoHill> yeah :/
Jul 10 20:37:25 <dm8tbr> CosmoHill: you should totally start a second tab for some variety with alex's blog about slamiak candy
Jul 10 20:37:47 <CosmoHill> noooo. i need to finish my CV
Jul 10 20:37:47 <dm8tbr> CosmoHill: http://www.salmiyuck.com/
Jul 10 20:41:41 * CosmoHill closes firefox and runs away
Jul 10 20:45:12 * dm8tbr takes a note to keep some salmiak in his backpack in case he ever meets CosmoHill 
Jul 10 20:46:15 * CosmoHill wonders what salmiak is
Jul 10 20:46:43 <dm8tbr> awesome finnish candy
Jul 10 20:48:23 <SpeedEvil> Salmiak is to candy as traffic wardens are to strippers.
Jul 10 20:49:14 <w00t> delicious candy
Jul 10 20:54:31 <sofar> plenty of salmiak in dutch licorice
Jul 10 20:55:57 * dm8tbr suddely tempted to break open the bottle of salmiakkikossu that is stashed in the freezer
Jul 10 21:08:30 * CosmoHill growls
Jul 10 21:19:40 * dyrvere howls in response to growling
Jul 10 21:25:51 * CosmoHill starts getting twitchy as he can't work out if he has a 2.1 or a 1 but now has higher hopes of a 1st
Jul 10 21:28:11 <dyrvere> the bcm4313 loses connection to the router alot with meego.
Jul 10 21:30:43 <CosmoHill> is that open or closed source?
Jul 10 21:32:57 <dyrvere> Don't know, I see there is the open-broadcom driver within the kernel but no idea to check what it is running.
Jul 10 21:33:40 <CosmoHill> did you have to install anything to get it working?
Jul 10 21:34:30 <dyrvere> No it's basically meego 1.2 fresh install AFAIK
Jul 10 21:34:59 <dyrvere> compaq mini cq10-500so
Jul 10 21:35:40 <CosmoHill> it will be open then
Jul 10 21:37:34 <dyrvere> any firmware needed you think?
Jul 10 21:38:13 <dyrvere> I ran it with win7 before but that was just not interesting enough :D
Jul 10 21:45:24 <CosmoHill> dyrvere: http://www.broadcom.com/support/802.11/linux_sta.php could give that a go
Jul 10 21:47:15 <dyrvere> thanks, I was just looking at that page searching if it's in the repos somewhere :p
Jul 10 23:53:06 <CosmoHill> cysa
Jul 11 00:08:53 * RzR950 http://rzr.online.fr/q/handset# : built and shared : rsync, tmux, git and other cli tools for #n950 #nokia #maemo #meego #harmattan #handset
Jul 11 00:10:10 <thiago> RzR950: this is not twitter
Jul 11 00:10:23 <thiago> RzR950: half of those channels don't exist
Jul 11 00:27:09 <bonbinker> morning
Jul 11 00:27:20 <dyrvere> mornin'
Jul 11 01:46:33 <Termana> Morning
Jul 11 01:56:44 <SpeedEvil> Morning.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jul 11 02:59:56 2011