**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jul 15 02:59:57 2011 Jul 15 03:32:06 Hi Jul 15 04:41:37 muten gorgen Jul 15 04:53:37 forgive me my ignorance, but I've installed meego on my n900, and I have no idea how to reboot or halt the device Jul 15 04:55:59 ptman: hold down power for ~10s Jul 15 04:56:22 ptman: it should shut down cleanly, if you hold a few seconds longer it will shut down hard Jul 15 04:56:34 ptman: screen needs to be unlocked ofc Jul 15 04:59:57 ah, I just didn't hold it long enough, at 5 seconds the screen just turned off, but it wasn't yet shutting down Jul 15 05:00:01 dm8tbr, thank you Jul 15 05:02:30 ptman: yes it's a bit longer than maemo Jul 15 05:51:16 X-Fade: Hi! Do you have a good idea how one could use the "osc" tool behind a Nokia proxy ? Jul 15 05:54:14 djszapi_: exporting https_proxy in the terminal should be enough Jul 15 05:55:49 Kaadlajk: with the same address we use internally for the http_proxy ? Jul 15 05:56:23 djszapi_: yes Jul 15 07:51:09 hi guys, i wana ask. what type of file format able to install in N950? Jul 15 08:04:52 tonberry_: rpm Jul 15 08:06:28 can u show me the example to install rpm in x terminal mode? Jul 15 08:06:52 rpm -ivh filename.rpm Jul 15 08:08:52 theres not rpm existing in busybox Jul 15 08:09:06 n950 is running in busybox Jul 15 08:12:46 n950 doesnt use rpm Jul 15 08:13:24 it deb based distro Jul 15 08:13:30 yeah.. i had no clue to install Jul 15 08:20:13 tonberry_: sorry I answered pre-coffee ... N950.... I'm in meego mode Jul 15 08:28:28 Hi! What did I do wrong ? http://paste.kde.org/96829/ I would like to build a package locally by using "osc build... ". Jul 15 08:32:57 anyone have n950 here? Jul 15 08:33:03 yes Jul 15 08:33:57 tonberry_: #harmattan Jul 15 08:35:00 he isn't on right? Jul 15 08:37:08 err.. it's an irc channel Jul 15 08:39:33 ops.. thx Jul 15 08:45:15 :) Jul 15 08:45:57 handling n950 is much more than n900 Jul 15 08:46:10 harder* Jul 15 08:51:51 and getting one is even harder.... Jul 15 08:52:04 yeah :( Jul 15 08:52:28 Is there anybody who did not get, but applied for one ? Jul 15 08:52:59 I applied to the LaunchPad programme. Jul 15 08:53:44 I'm not sure whether that's the same thing. Jul 15 08:53:50 my company got me one, but i have no idea how 2 use it :( Jul 15 08:55:03 that's a bit depressing :P Jul 15 08:55:13 mine shipped this morning Jul 15 08:55:19 looking forward to it Jul 15 08:55:25 Stskeeps: have a nice birthday ? Jul 15 08:55:47 lol... need help please? Jul 15 08:56:12 slaine: 4 thunderstorms during the day, 2000 houses in the region damaged in a mild cyclone, so yeah, pretty successfull ;) Jul 15 08:57:01 You shouldn't have invited Thor over for beers, I warned you Jul 15 09:00:55 slaine, :DDDD Jul 15 09:07:38 * ramkrsna is back from the Intel Meego Pune event, It was more Intel App Up foo than meego :( Jul 15 09:08:17 well, intel has gain income from their meego work somehow so that's fair Jul 15 09:09:11 hmm... I wonder whether Intel has plans to develop handsets based on Meego... Jul 15 09:09:53 intel sells chips Jul 15 09:10:47 the smokey ranch kind Jul 15 09:11:11 They've already developed hardware reference designs that they're selling to ODM and Manufacturers Jul 15 09:12:22 slaine, I think jotik_work_ is referring to a commercial offering from Intel. Which is probably not likely. Jul 15 09:13:58 Termana: nod, just pointing out what they have actually done Jul 15 09:16:09 where's meego apps store at? Jul 15 09:16:59 That's be Nokia Store on N950 I think Jul 15 09:17:14 morning :) Jul 15 09:17:26 morning Andy80 Jul 15 09:17:43 Elleo: the package was correctly generated ;) https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=cutesoma&project=home%3Aandreagrandi Jul 15 09:17:48 And you're infringing on Apple's 'App Store' trademark by asking for a MeeGo App Store ;P Jul 15 09:17:48 hi Julien :) Jul 15 09:19:04 * Termana files a lawsuit as Apple's lawyer against vvaltone for even mentioning App Store and for insinuated defamation. Jul 15 09:19:26 And if your thinking of releasing any products, hand them all over Jul 15 09:20:13 I'm sure they'll soon start saying the Linux Kernel has copied code from Quartz ;P Jul 15 09:30:25 does the SDK (when you connect N950/N9 to PC with USB cable) lock the package manager in any way? I'm trying to install a package from terminal but I always get: RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# apt-get install cutesoma Jul 15 09:30:25 E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11: Resource temporarily unavailable) Jul 15 09:30:25 E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another process using it? Jul 15 09:30:28 any idea? Jul 15 09:33:24 uhm... and now Application Manager shows "no software installation" while before it displayed the packages installed Jul 15 09:33:35 what went wrong? I tried to reboot but it didn't help Jul 15 09:41:05 ok, I deleted the /var/lib/dpkg/lock file. I tried to install my own package but it's broken: the application icon does not appear on application list and if I click it it does not start Jul 15 09:54:42 Andy80 you could send the phone to me so I can look into it :P Jul 15 09:54:52 :P Jul 15 09:54:53 X-Fade: Harmattan XEN VM is not running again ? https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=redland&project=home%3Adjszapi&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan Jul 15 10:17:52 morning \o Jul 15 10:18:57 Perhaps. Jul 15 10:44:54 MeeGoExperts, hi, did you get yourself an n950? Jul 15 10:45:48 we have a meego apps meeting today according to the irc schedule Jul 15 10:55:20 Hi Jul 15 10:55:30 Living in Hope at the moment .......... Jul 15 11:13:49 lcuk: where? when? meeting... Jul 15 11:18:45 Andy80, in #MeeGo-Meeting in a little while: Jul 15 11:18:46 http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Meeting_IRC_Schedule Jul 15 11:18:58 there are generally meetings for different areas of meego every day Jul 15 11:19:05 good to keep that list handy ;) Jul 15 11:22:42 lcuk: what are we going to talk about? Jul 15 11:22:59 you asked about meetings Jul 15 11:23:03 i told you about them :P Jul 15 11:23:20 X-Fade, what is on the agenda/where is the agenda for the apps meeting later? Jul 15 11:23:26 lbt too perhaps Jul 15 11:25:56 "why lbt should be stomped on for not doing BOSS" Jul 15 11:26:36 * Stskeeps passes lbt the clone machine Jul 15 11:26:58 I'll take two Jul 15 11:31:08 lbt, is there anything we can assist with Jul 15 11:32:11 * lbt will have a think Jul 15 11:32:38 * dm8tbr waves friendly Jul 15 11:33:10 Elleo: ping me when you're here :) Jul 15 11:43:35 Andy80: ping Jul 15 11:44:44 Elleo: pong :P Jul 15 11:45:05 Elleo: it looks like my Application Manager in N950 is a bit screwed up :\ Jul 15 11:45:12 oh? Jul 15 11:45:22 Elleo: it doesn't show anything right now Jul 15 11:45:45 is dpkg locked? Jul 15 11:47:00 and... I've tried installing the package cutesoma from my OBS repository but it doesn't start. I only have a green icon on application list and it doesn't start. If I start it from the terminal it works. And last thing: I've removed the cutesoma package and tried to deploy it again using QtCreator: now it can run but the icon is not created in Application list... Jul 15 11:47:40 sounds like there might be something wrong with the .desktop file Jul 15 11:48:07 yep Jul 15 11:49:02 Andy80: just installed it and got the same issue, I replaced invoker with single-instance and it launches Jul 15 11:49:15 so the Exec line is now: Exec=/usr/bin/single-instance /opt/CuteSoma/bin/CuteSoma Jul 15 11:49:48 you modified the .desktop? Jul 15 11:50:06 yeah, just now on my n950 not in the package Jul 15 11:50:27 and it seems that the icon isn't being installed as /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/apps/CuteSoma.svg doesn't exist Jul 15 11:50:37 uhmm ok I'll try to modify it... and what about the icon not appearing in applications anymore? Jul 15 11:51:23 oh :\ Jul 15 11:51:30 really don't understand these things.. Jul 15 11:52:20 Andy80: I think that's a bug in invoker, other people were complaining about it not behaving as expected too Jul 15 11:52:32 e.g. --single-instance mode doesn't do anything on harmattan Jul 15 11:53:06 /usr/bin/single-instance is what harmattan's create-project tool uses by default, so I guess that's the "correct" way on harmattan Jul 15 11:54:09 another mismatch between Scratchbox Harmattan and QtCreator templates :) Jul 15 11:54:30 for some reason qmake isn't putting anything about CuteSoma.svg into your makefile Jul 15 11:54:42 so I'm guessing there's something up with the qmake config for that file Jul 15 11:55:45 ah yeah, I think you want to edit deployment.pri Jul 15 11:56:13 and modify the icon install stuff Jul 15 11:56:19 to look for a .svg instead of a .png Jul 15 11:56:40 and to install it to ..../hicolor/scalable/apps instead of ..../hicolor/64x64/ Jul 15 11:57:34 Elleo: line 96? https://github.com/andreagrandi/CuteSoma/blob/master/deployment.pri Jul 15 11:59:41 yeah, 96 and 97 Jul 15 11:59:50 icon.files = $${TARGET}.png becomes icon.files = $${TARGET}.svg Jul 15 12:00:03 and icon.path = /usr/share/icons/hicolor/64x64/apps becomes icon.path = /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/apps Jul 15 12:03:20 (wait phone....) Jul 15 12:08:59 hmm, I changed my invoker command to use /usr/bin/single-instance, but I still get multiple instances of my app :( Jul 15 12:09:22 odd, I just get the one for mine Jul 15 12:09:43 hmm, it might be something to do with QtCreator Jul 15 12:09:45 from what I can tell single-instance makes a lock file containing a window id Jul 15 12:09:58 then if the lockfile exists it just brings that window id to the foreground Jul 15 12:10:23 also the invoker --single-instance did the lock file for me, but it just ignored it Jul 15 12:10:44 and seems to be same with /usr/bin/single-instance Jul 15 12:11:04 strange Jul 15 12:11:19 indeed Jul 15 12:11:35 I think things certainly need to be made clearer interms of what's expected as the harmattan dev workflow Jul 15 12:11:48 people doing things completely through qtcreator appear to be running into lots of little problems Jul 15 12:12:09 agreed Jul 15 12:12:19 whereas using create-project in the harmattan sdk has meant that everything appears to have gone pretty smoothly for me Jul 15 12:31:53 Elleo: I'm back... let me modify it Jul 15 12:36:44 Elleo: nothing to do :( something is broken with the deployment... Jul 15 12:37:29 Elleo: usually when you run an application from QtCeatorm it's deployed on the device and you see the icon in the applications window. I cannot see mine anymore Jul 15 12:37:38 is there a QML Layout/Resize event available? Jul 15 12:37:50 so that the contents can be positioned accordingly Jul 15 12:38:18 lcuk: yes and no Jul 15 12:38:37 lcuk: you mean you want a different layout if you're in portrait or landscape, right? Jul 15 12:38:47 yes Jul 15 12:39:24 lcuk: look at my ChannelPlayer.qml https://github.com/andreagrandi/CuteSoma/blob/master/qml/ChannelPlayer.qml Jul 15 12:40:09 lcuk: you'll see two items and a state... at the end... it works in this way: there are two layout and one is hidden when the other one is shown Jul 15 12:41:35 it works pretty fast Jul 15 12:41:47 speed is not the issue Jul 15 12:41:52 maintainability is! Jul 15 12:42:01 having to remember to make canges in 2 areas etc Jul 15 12:42:16 but that is perhaps the simplest mechanism I have seen Jul 15 12:42:23 changes * Jul 15 12:44:32 this way was suggested and used in some of the qt-components demo available on gitorious... can't remember their exact location, but I can assure that in my case it works fine. Jul 15 12:45:30 Andy80, of course Jul 15 12:46:05 Andy80, that sort of thing could work to allow small/medium/large views of the same data Jul 15 12:46:19 choosing s/m/l algorithmically somewhere Jul 15 12:57:06 Andy80: CuteSoma.svg isn't your icon, you appear to have a generic QT icon in that file, I think you probably want to replace it with CuteSoma_80x80.svg which is actually your Soma icon Jul 15 12:57:41 lcuk: anyway... it will get worse when you'll decide to port the application to MeeGo tablets, Maemo5 ecc... :) there are (at the moment) some differences in the "import...." lines and of course the UI you create for a 4'' is not the same you create for a 10'' tablet (at least I hope it's not) Jul 15 12:58:08 Elleo: you're right... but before it was working... this still doesn't fix my problem with icon not deployed by QtCreator... Jul 15 12:58:11 Andy80, :) actually the 4" UI will upscale better Jul 15 12:58:23 than a UI designed for large form factor Jul 15 12:58:25 Andy80: no idea about qtcreator deployment I'm afraid, it's not something I use Jul 15 12:59:00 the OBS package I just built from after making those modifications works fine though (other than having the wrong icon) Jul 15 12:59:10 s/from// Jul 15 12:59:10 Elleo meant: the OBS package I just built after making those modifications works fine though (other than having the wrong icon) Jul 15 12:59:30 Andy80, http://liqbase.net/liq.meego.r&d.n900.and.ideapad.fullspeed.20110220_011.jpg Jul 15 13:05:54 Elleo: uff... I've renamed the 180x180 icon to CuteSoma.svg and removed it from qrc file, but when I rebuild the package now I get this: :-1: error: No rule to make target `../CuteSoma/CuteSoma_80x80.svg', needed by `qrc_res.cpp'. Stop. Jul 15 13:07:34 sorry, the 80x80 I mean Jul 15 13:08:25 noooooooooooo Jul 15 13:08:42 sounds like you just need to change any references to CuteSoma_80x80.svg to CuteSoma.svg in your res.qrc Jul 15 13:08:45 fuc******* QtCreator!!! it overwrites my .svg with default Qt icon!!! Jul 15 13:08:45 :( Jul 15 13:08:52 heh Jul 15 13:09:14 in that case you could keep CuteSoma_80x80.svg and change your deployment file to install that one instead Jul 15 13:09:18 and modify the .desktop to use it Jul 15 13:09:30 damn it Jul 15 13:11:06 Elleo: ok, I've restored it from a backup but I still don't understand who was referencing it... I opened the .qrc file with a text editor and there was any trace of it Jul 15 13:11:55 Andy80: I see it in there Jul 15 13:12:05 CuteSoma_80x80.svg Jul 15 13:12:43 but it sounds like if qtcreator is messing up cutesoma.svg it might be best to leave that one alone and use CuteSoma_80x80.svg as your application icon Jul 15 13:14:39 Elleo: you're watching the old copy on GitHub or did you hack my PC :D ? Jul 15 13:15:10 Andy80: that's from the source file I downloaded the other day from your OBS when trying to help fix stuff Jul 15 13:15:47 http://repo.pub.meego.com/home:/elleo/Harmattan/armel/ <-- has a newly built package with correct icon and .desktop file with the source files being here: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/files?package=cutesoma&project=home%3Aelleo Jul 15 13:15:51 so it works for OBS Jul 15 13:16:01 but I have no idea what might be going wrong with qtcreator's deployment thing Jul 15 13:22:34 now the icon is deployed again by QtCreator... bah :\ Jul 15 13:22:59 I should concentrate more on coding the application and leave packaging when it's 1.0 Jul 15 13:53:00 lbt: woohoo, it looks like whatever you did worked! Jul 15 13:53:43 at least, a whole bunch of things say and have content :) Jul 15 13:54:11 e.g. http://mxr.meego.com/qt.gitorious.org/source/devdays-graphicssystem-plugin/ Jul 15 13:54:59 given that qt updated, i'd hope the other roots will w/in a day or so Jul 15 14:01:08 berndhs: It's the anal-retentive versioning scheme... that way they're listed in version order when you `ls` a folder of tarballs. Jul 15 14:01:10 :-) Jul 15 14:03:39 i thought it was more of a disclaimer :) Jul 15 14:03:55 bergie: :-) Jul 15 14:04:00 berndhs: :-) Jul 15 14:04:08 (sorry, bergie... didn't mean to wake you) Jul 15 14:05:25 no prob Jul 15 14:05:43 berndhs: honestly, it's just a versioning scheme that will accommodate a whole lot of R&D releases. After a 1.0 release I'll switch to something more sane. Jul 15 14:05:45 what is contextkit ? is it like dbus only better ? Jul 15 14:06:11 gabrbedd: all my things are version 0.something Jul 15 14:06:56 berndhs: yeah, mine are all 0.%03d :-p Jul 15 14:09:28 hi, I am logged in to a tabled by ssh, how can I get my UI application to run on the device ? Jul 15 14:09:30 lbt what time is the apps meeting? Jul 15 14:09:42 starting it from the cmdline Jul 15 14:09:55 I keep getting can not connect to DISPLAY Jul 15 14:16:04 kavacha: DISPLAY=:0.0 ./my_program Jul 15 14:16:58 kavacha: you can also do `DISPLAY=:0.0` and then 'export DISPLAY` to keep from having to type it every time. Jul 15 14:18:43 gabrbedd: thanks , that is what I thought but I get "can not open display: :0.0" Jul 15 14:19:30 gabrbedd: logged in with "ssh root@device" , should I use -X -c options even though I do not want to export display ? Jul 15 14:19:59 "export display" as in to another machine Jul 15 14:21:29 kavacha: why did you log in as root? Jul 15 14:21:37 kavacha: follow this: Jul 15 14:21:40 good question :) Jul 15 14:21:52 ssh gabriel@remote.host Jul 15 14:21:56 (then on remote host) Jul 15 14:22:10 DISPLAY=:0.0 ./my_program Jul 15 14:22:15 done. Jul 15 14:24:29 gabrbedd: Thanks !!! that works Jul 15 14:27:16 kavacha: you're welcome! Jul 15 14:51:51 hello Jul 15 14:52:27 harmattan qml components sucks and i have to use them ? nothing has been done to ease up the use of qwidgets Jul 15 14:52:43 harmattan is in #harmattan ;-) Jul 15 14:52:53 andre__++ Jul 15 14:52:55 i can't even design the app qml in qtcreator since it shows nothing Jul 15 15:14:32 thebootroo, can you make some screenshots showing how your app currently looks on n950 Jul 15 15:14:58 perhaps it would help to try to see if qwidget bugs in harmattan can be fixed Jul 15 15:14:59 look nothing because it can't run Jul 15 15:15:08 what do you mean can't run? Jul 15 15:15:14 i heard qwidget worked Jul 15 15:15:17 not even support autoorientation Jul 15 15:15:23 but was not themed correctly Jul 15 15:15:29 that is a minor bug Jul 15 15:15:33 nor flicking in qscrollarea Jul 15 15:15:36 nor theming Jul 15 15:15:39 i still don't know what you have spent the last hour arguing about Jul 15 15:16:04 thebootroo, so you have had your app actually on the n950? Jul 15 15:16:12 and discovered these issues? Jul 15 15:16:26 perhaps following it will be better - file specific bugs against things noticed Jul 15 15:16:29 lcuk: yes Jul 15 15:16:42 and see if you and others who have qwidget requirements can see about getting things fixed Jul 15 15:17:05 lcuk: can't wait to these problems to be fiwed Jul 15 15:17:07 *fixed Jul 15 15:17:17 i already filled bugs which were not even read Jul 15 15:17:28 if you are so strongly against qml and your app otherwise works fine on all other platforms, fixing up the qwidget bugs is feasible Jul 15 15:17:37 what bugs Jul 15 15:17:42 and more importantly, what app Jul 15 15:18:03 bugs about qml not supporting kinda border-left: 1px solid black like Qwidget+CSS did Jul 15 15:18:05 does your app work on n900-ce ? meego netbook? meego tablet build? Jul 15 15:18:09 are there only issues on n950? Jul 15 15:18:16 * lcuk bangs head Jul 15 15:18:24 lcuk: i didn't dev on n900-ce Jul 15 15:18:33 thebootroo, what about bugs against qwidget problems themselves Jul 15 15:18:37 lcuk: but did not have these problems on N900 maemo5 Jul 15 15:18:50 if you just wanted to use your app on the device Jul 15 15:18:54 file bugs against the issues Jul 15 15:19:01 lcuk: i not tried because i know they will not be fixed soon, if ever they are one day Jul 15 15:19:04 not meta issues with another (QML) framework Jul 15 15:19:57 in harmattan i don't any winodw flag supported to auto rotate the app Jul 15 15:20:18 the qApp->desktop()->resized() event is not emitted Jul 15 15:20:23 thebootroo, did you know that Qt is based on Oppen Governance? That means that decisions about where to focus effort can come from the community. if enough developers come forward with specific qwidget requirements then developers might start to help. and a tweak here and there might be all it takes Jul 15 15:21:09 lcuk: what i see it that the 2 most important bug report i made were not fixed, one for now 2 years, and the other from 1 month, did get not answer Jul 15 15:21:21 which bugs - please give links Jul 15 15:21:28 so i cant base my app on the eventuallity the bug may be fixed one day Jul 15 15:21:46 * timeless applauds lcuk 's patience Jul 15 15:21:51 you can file bugs and more importantly, talk about them and follow up on them Jul 15 15:22:02 the oldest :http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-643 Jul 15 15:22:16 will probably not be fixed since qt devs are focused on QMl Jul 15 15:22:33 timeless, :) not really, just trying to work through something many folks will come across Jul 15 15:22:41 qwidgets are important for existing apps Jul 15 15:22:45 and not everyone will want qml Jul 15 15:22:50 the newest, which blocks me for doing even simple good looking apps in plain QML : http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-20282 Jul 15 15:22:51 * timeless shrugs Jul 15 15:24:08 thebootroo, the first bug is not a bug report, it is a remark. the second relates to QML which your apps as of today do not use Jul 15 15:24:23 what ? Jul 15 15:24:27 not Jul 15 15:24:55 my apps in QWidget are fully styled using CSS, not pixmaps, so i need QML support this if i want to port them to qml Jul 15 15:25:05 so that's a TRUE problem for me Jul 15 15:25:24 what you requested is a feature request Jul 15 15:25:31 yes Jul 15 15:25:35 but I have not seen any bugs from you about qwidget support issues Jul 15 15:25:45 i don't wanna put tons of pixmaps every where to support rounded corner on one corner only or two sides border Jul 15 15:26:17 * lcuk goes for food anyway Jul 15 15:26:19 bbiab Jul 15 15:26:23 lcuk: i said you i didn't made bugs reports for qwidget because it's not even supported officially so it will not be fixed soon, even never Jul 15 15:26:29 * lcuk orders a pizza for timeless whilst he is out Jul 15 15:26:43 ooh, sounds useful Jul 15 15:26:49 I take one too! Jul 15 15:27:00 otoh, an apartment would be better Jul 15 15:27:25 take me some heroin to resist to the sucide idea that comes to me when i try to do something using qml Jul 15 15:29:15 QML gives me to felling to loose all i find to be the advantages of qt : layouts, css styling, strong set of qwidgets, easily extendable by subclassing, strong events controls (even more in the graphicsview), not need to do some crappy mapping to pass things between C++ and JS, speed.... etc Jul 15 15:29:52 and overall : portability : write once, run everywhere, one code, mutiple plateforms Jul 15 15:31:19 thebootroo: such complaints will not get you anywhere useful Jul 15 15:31:22 you come off as a troll Jul 15 15:31:30 if you have specific problems with *QWidget* list them Jul 15 15:31:35 (preferably w/ bug links) Jul 15 15:31:55 if there are certain things you find lacking in QML, that's unfortunate, but complaining about them in general isn't going somewhere useful Jul 15 15:31:56 i attach a lot of importance to UX appearance details, alignments, size policy, smart positionning, styling, and i can't easily achieve that in qml because even for trivial things i'm lbocked by the lack of functionnalities of the QML language wich is too young : IMO they are pushing it too fast, not seeing its not mature enough for all use, just a subpart.... Jul 15 15:32:36 timeless: i tried to find a solution to dev my apps properly which will not need ages to wait for bugfixes Jul 15 15:33:48 timeless: i thought rewriting my apps in graphicsview would solve the issue but not because the graphics view is in a qmainwindow which is a qwidget an i not well suported on harmattan (basically it only support drawing, but no event support) Jul 15 15:34:05 its a step back from maemo5 Jul 15 15:34:55 in maaemo 5 we had autorotation (with both widget flags and signals) and scrollarea derived classes had automattically the kinetic scrolling Jul 15 15:35:14 and i don't talk about well themed widgets Jul 15 15:35:27 i have nothing of that in qml in harmattan Jul 15 15:35:45 and the designer is 10 times slower than qtdesigner Jul 15 15:35:45 * timeless ponders Jul 15 15:36:05 i'd suggest you try writing your app in html+js :) Jul 15 15:36:24 timeless: nope, i want pure C++ for my apps Jul 15 15:36:38 i didn't learn C++ to finally develop JS apps for desktop Jul 15 15:37:06 i find web development crappy, its not for doing it where i can do real programming Jul 15 15:39:00 what i want is a simple C++ api to build advanced ui, running without modifications on any mobile and desktop plateform supporting qt Jul 15 15:40:21 and since QML needs components differents on each plateform its obviously not the way to go, and more it don't have a simple C++ api to build ui, it can only take handwritten .qml files and do a lot of mapping to connect it to the c++ code Jul 15 15:40:35 so would take me ages to port my apps Jul 15 15:43:18 oh and my custom classe, that were not even optimized, redraw at least 4 times faster than a simple plain QML app with no pixmap, and not use 50% of my core 2 duo as QML does Jul 15 15:43:56 i cant even image the poor performance of the final app, with 6 pages, listview of thousands of items, icons, webcontents... Jul 15 15:44:02 *imagine Jul 15 15:54:24 thebootroo: pretty sure that 17-line rant would have been more appropriate for meego-dev. :) Jul 15 15:55:38 andyross: i disagree Jul 15 15:55:41 andyross: stop complaining about irc channels, i would understand that if we where hundreds speaking the same time, but thats not the case, i'm quite alone posting so no need to move (i will not have 10 channels opened same time) Jul 15 15:55:49 more people would probably have suffered if he sent it there :) Jul 15 15:56:26 Not sure about what the complaint is. If you want a C++ API... you have one. Jul 15 15:56:57 the main complaints seem to be a lack of Events Jul 15 15:57:04 for QWidget based impls Jul 15 15:57:19 and a lack of support for certain edge theming in QML Jul 15 15:57:43 the complaint seems to be that there are no QWidgets worth using on harmattan or meego Jul 15 15:57:49 personally, my guess is that if you're trying to color only a single edge, you're probably trying to make a bad ui Jul 15 15:58:02 berndhs: that's probably not wrong either :) Jul 15 15:58:09 thebootroo: you're sounding like a c*nt. Jul 15 15:58:13 seriously. Jul 15 15:58:16 yes he is correct about that Jul 15 15:58:34 you're feeling all butt hurt because, oh crap, the platform paradigm changed Jul 15 15:58:36 TSCHAKeee: to be fair.. Jul 15 15:58:45 imagine someone spends a year developing a product Jul 15 15:58:47 timeless: why coloring a single edge would mean bad ui ? Jul 15 15:58:59 TSCHAKeee: lets not be abusive to people with an unpopular point of view Jul 15 15:59:01 timeless: i never do bad ui, i'm designer before being developer Jul 15 15:59:02 and then they're told that the next platform will give them an app that will barely work Jul 15 15:59:18 thebootroo: i don't suppose you could post pictures (screen shots) of your app? Jul 15 15:59:52 or they can try and rewrite their app with NewShinyWidgetFrameWork (tm) which is missing features they used from OldPreviouslyWorkingFramework Jul 15 16:00:00 it's a fairly typical complaint Jul 15 16:00:05 and not at all unreasonable Jul 15 16:00:21 but vendors spend most of their time trying to come up with ways to cause this problem for their ecosystems Jul 15 16:00:30 or at least .. certain vendors do Jul 15 16:00:51 how else can they sell an upgrade-treadmill if they don't? :) Jul 15 16:00:57 TSCHAKeee: learn real programming and then come back tell my lessons: you are talking to someone who did tons of complex yet beautiful and ergonomic ui, with a real programming language, and who can't do the same with the newly proposed / imposed technology and so he wonders how he will be able to port his apps Jul 15 16:01:08 If you don't like that model, you should be using , , or Jul 15 16:01:11 thebootroo: i've been programming for almost 30 years Jul 15 16:01:20 thebootroo: the only constant i've ever found, is change. Jul 15 16:01:40 TSCHAKeee: change is good want its not imposed when its not even mature Jul 15 16:01:59 i found qml has some good points but its far from complete for the use i need Jul 15 16:02:21 so build the components to fill in the gaps, or move to another platform. Jul 15 16:02:24 i know Jul 15 16:02:28 it hurts Jul 15 16:02:32 but those are your choices. Jul 15 16:02:39 i know that Qt screwed up here Jul 15 16:02:46 oh well, there is a third option Jul 15 16:02:54 add the missing stuff back into Qt or as a side library. Jul 15 16:04:03 i've spent almost a decade writing the most advanced smart home platform out there. and now we're switching platforms for UI. We are Jul 15 16:04:09 experiencing similar hurts. Jul 15 16:04:39 TSCHAKeee: i looking to how i could re build my own components over qml but when i read ". QML does not use Layouts, as the Qt layouts do not mix well with animated and fluid UIs, so the geometry interface is one of the main differences. When writing QML elements, you allow the designers to place their bounding rectangle using absolute geometry, bindings or anchors (all setup for you when you inherit QDeclarativeItem) and you Jul 15 16:04:41 do not use layouts or size hints" i wonder how i will ever achieve correct placement of hundreds of items if they don't know about sizepolicies and layouts Jul 15 16:05:28 i'm not against changing or rewriting but only if the final product is at least equal quality to the first Jul 15 16:05:46 rarely does that happen in reality. Jul 15 16:06:05 i've rewritten my toolkit first in .net, then in GTK+, then in QWidget and finally in QGraphicsItems Jul 15 16:06:16 you trade stuff...and yes.. in this case, it's imposed from on high. i'm sorry. Jul 15 16:06:35 * TSCHAKeee gives thebootroo a hug. Jul 15 16:06:37 but i can't figure out how i will write same quality with qML now Jul 15 16:07:23 gimme base class for sizable and layoutable qml items and i will rewrite my classes without a hurt Jul 15 16:07:35 FWIW: QML really isn't aimed at an interface with "hundreds of items". The market is touch devices, with small screens and very large interaction targets. Jul 15 16:07:46 oh and something where i cant easily implement qpainter events Jul 15 16:07:49 and that...too. Jul 15 16:07:53 Also: your task apparently isn't "rewriting an app", it's porting a toolkit. Well, yeah, that's going to have metaphor skew. Jul 15 16:08:03 andyross: yes indeed, and that could become a problem for qt-components-desktop Jul 15 16:08:29 andyross: if qml can not handle more than 50 items, hwo can we build correct mobile apps, for example feed reader Jul 15 16:09:00 i've done a data grid with 20,000 items in it in qml Jul 15 16:09:05 (reading a C++ data source) Jul 15 16:09:09 it handles that just fine. Jul 15 16:09:15 There I don't disagree at all. Honestly there's been way too much interest in "moving away" from the old widget paradigm. For a ton of desktop tasks, it still works really well. Would you seriously write, I dunno, a photo editor or machine control UI in QML? Jul 15 16:09:33 using 90% of your Quad core and a SLI graphics with cuda and opengl ? Jul 15 16:09:52 thebootroo: no, I'm testing on an Archos 9 (GMA500) Jul 15 16:10:56 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbGtYPaRoBw Jul 15 16:11:00 TSCHAKeee: ok so give me a basis for a Qwidget like declarative item (i mean with c++ bindings for implementing paining, sizing, and layouting) and i will see if a cant port my toolkit Jul 15 16:12:17 aside from all this UI stuff, what's a good way to make a chroot environment to cross-build meego parts ? not applications, but UX parts Jul 15 16:15:33 You can use an arm qemu I suspect. Never tried; pretty much all of my work is on intel (though I still build in a vm, not a chroot). Jul 15 16:16:03 i dont want arm, i want x86 Jul 15 16:16:29 i need a convenient build environment, the host is similar enough Jul 15 16:16:44 host kernel is 2.6.38, gcc is 4.6 Jul 15 16:17:04 but host gcc shouldnt even matter Jul 15 16:17:28 Lots of stuff will build on the host just fine. Though some of the dependencies get hairy. I find the vm is just a lot simpler (though kind of slow if you're building in an sshfs-mounted directory from the host filesystem). Jul 15 16:17:46 yeah but I only have 2GB on the host Jul 15 16:17:57 "only" Jul 15 16:18:12 OK, that's a killer. Buy more. I have an 8G laptop which runs 2-3 VMs at a time comfortably. Jul 15 16:18:35 i suppose I could just copy over the file system from my meego machine and chroot into the copy :) Jul 15 16:19:14 That works for some stuff, but not everything. Check the mic-chroot implementation. It's a giant voodoo mess, and largely the reason I use a vm. Jul 15 16:19:29 people went to the moon with 64K, and now 2G isn't enough to program a phone, that's how pathetic we have become Jul 15 16:19:49 The openSUSE "build" tool (part of OBS) might be something else to look at -- it builds a chroot by default out of an RPM directory. Jul 15 16:20:08 yes i thought about OBS, have to see if Jul 15 16:20:20 see if "build" works right on my host Jul 15 16:21:14 I know I've used OBS chroots to run client apps in the past. It's possible you can do a quick build of something, then chroot in and zypper install whatever you want. Jul 15 16:21:55 maybe i should downgrade to fedora-14, the mic tools work there :) Jul 15 16:22:46 i dont actually want to run anything apps in teh chroot, just build stuff Jul 15 16:23:07