**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 20 02:59:57 2011 Jul 20 03:06:06 anyone active here? Jul 20 03:07:15 if I click on for example Pictures folder, meego just does´nt do anything Jul 20 03:07:23 what should I do ? Jul 20 03:12:36 anyone ? Jul 20 03:38:25 still noone here? Jul 20 05:42:26 morning Jul 20 06:14:39 Does the page "https://build.pub.meego.com/" work for anybody ? It loads empty page by me. Jul 20 06:16:12 nope, doesn't work Jul 20 06:17:13 lbt X-Fade maintainance period ? Jul 20 06:26:40 morning Jul 20 06:27:02 moarning Jul 20 06:27:17 morning Jul 20 06:31:41 moin Jul 20 06:34:43 another morning without c.obs? :-( Jul 20 06:37:11 arfoll,looks like its really dead. Stopped responding at all late last night. Jul 20 06:37:52 lbt, X-Fade, any update on this. Do you guys need a hand? Jul 20 06:38:06 uhm you must have been up late because it was working at midnight ;-) Jul 20 06:38:23 * arfoll thinks they probably need sleep with all the recent trouble Jul 20 06:41:45 arfol, I was Jul 20 06:41:58 arfoll, I was up late Jul 20 07:37:21 Hey Intel guys, how long we can expect that a particular Atom variant might be available, in general? Are there some that have long-term support and not others? I see Intel has done some second-sourcing of Atom, but not a lot? Jul 20 08:34:14 Morning, all Jul 20 08:37:01 djszapi, ping Jul 20 08:37:09 pong Jul 20 08:38:12 djszapi, could you please look at something for me? Jul 20 08:38:32 sure thing :) Jul 20 08:38:38 :) Jul 20 08:38:49 unfortunately I can't paste to this damn web interface... Jul 20 08:39:32 however I'd appreciate if you could look at QTCREATORBU-5459 Jul 20 08:40:01 djszapi, they are in desperate need of your expertise with Aegis Jul 20 08:41:01 djszapi, it's about the bug I talked to you earlier Jul 20 10:15:28 morning \o Jul 20 10:15:47 hi lcuk sup Jul 20 10:16:26 hi djszapi, checking bug movements and mail etc Jul 20 10:16:34 how is your kdelibs build doing? Jul 20 10:16:45 is not going :) Jul 20 10:18:35 well last I saw yesterday people were having issues Jul 20 10:18:56 kdelibs is a monstrum :D Jul 20 10:19:09 * monster, I mean huge. Jul 20 10:19:42 vgrade and arfoll had issues with publishing, I gather lbt and X-Fade and the team are working on it (hopefully cured?) Jul 20 10:29:10 hi all, by mistake i deleted /usr/lib/libQtServiceFramework.so.1 from my tablet (qemu ) Jul 20 10:29:20 i know that is part of libqtserviceframework1-1.2.0~beta0+git2726-9.35.i586 Jul 20 10:29:39 but dont know the repo where i can find that Jul 20 10:29:51 can someone please help me Jul 20 10:31:29 bkalinga, can you just "zypper in --force [package]" to reinstall it? Jul 20 10:32:00 out of note: aegis would have prevented this action I believe Jul 20 10:32:02 lcuk: i think you are aware that after MeeGo1.2 release the repo url changed Jul 20 10:32:10 lcuk, I've had some packages published but not all Jul 20 10:32:46 bkalinga, ok which ux are you on? Jul 20 10:32:49 so zypper in --force [package] is looking at non existing url Jul 20 10:32:50 vgrade, ahh Jul 20 10:32:55 tablet Jul 20 10:34:05 lcuk: at http://download.meego.com/snapshots/1.2.0.90.5.20110621.84/repos/oss/ia32/packages/i586/ i can find libqtserviceframework1-1.2.0~beta0+git2726-16.6.i586.rpm Jul 20 10:34:19 but there is a slight mismatch Jul 20 10:34:31 so i am afraid to take that Jul 20 10:36:37 bkalinga, seems to be slightly newer than anything? since you already chomped your system backup required data and give it a try Jul 20 10:36:39 is it possible to find out the repo address from by looking at the name *git2726-9.35.i586 Jul 20 10:37:29 not that I know of Jul 20 10:37:31 lcuk: is it really hard to find out in which repo that particular .rpm exist Jul 20 10:38:12 let me see in old repo.. Jul 20 10:38:31 andre__: 10 bucks on bugs.otcshare.org Jul 20 10:38:50 andre__: same mess as with MTF and NB# bugs :) Jul 20 10:39:27 whats that Stskeeps Jul 20 10:40:26 ah, bugzilla.* i mean Jul 20 10:40:37 lcuk: intel costumer bugzilla, i think Jul 20 10:41:26 anyone know where http://download.meego.com/snapshots/1.2.0.90.0.20110517.1/repos/oss/source is moved ? Jul 20 10:41:29 costumer bugzilla? Their costumes not holding together, or don't look like the things they're supposed to be a costume of? ;) Jul 20 10:41:35 customer, yeah Jul 20 10:41:41 Stskeeps, ah, likely. hadn't heard of that one before Jul 20 10:41:59 i'm fighting with myself if something like that is evil or not :) Jul 20 10:42:01 I'd quite like a costume bugzilla Jul 20 10:43:20 because it's a lot better than secrets in bugs.meego.com but also a good question if every single bug should be put into bugs.meego.com too Jul 20 10:43:23 :P Jul 20 10:43:58 bkalinga: to the trashbin of history I guess. :) why host a snapshort from more than two months ago? Jul 20 10:44:10 bkalinga: archive.meego.com prolly Jul 20 10:44:27 yeah, downstream-upstream relation for bugtracking is something to discuss for days... :-/ Jul 20 10:44:44 andre__: for a public release it has to there for years Jul 20 10:45:21 for real releases I agree. for snapshots... don't know. Jul 20 10:45:33 bkalinga: technically only 1.x releases Jul 20 10:45:54 bkalinga: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.2.0.90/1.2.0.90.0.20110517.1/ Jul 20 10:45:59 Stskeeps:yes i am talking about MeeGo1.2 release Jul 20 10:46:12 1.2.0.90 is a snapshot :) Jul 20 10:46:27 after release, within a month that repo got removed Jul 20 10:47:17 1.2/ repo still exists Jul 20 10:47:35 it does not matter whether its a snapshot or trunk it it part of my /etc/zypp/repos.d/1.2-oss.repo then i take that as a stable link to be available for years Jul 20 10:48:35 long story short, meego.com mirrors don't want several terabytes of releases Jul 20 10:48:50 so things get moved to archive and only major releases are guaranteed to stay Jul 20 10:48:57 that's 1.0, 1.1, 1.2 Jul 20 10:49:01 snapshots are just development snapshots Jul 20 10:49:21 Stskeeps: i am talking about 1.2 which is a major release Jul 20 10:49:35 what URL did you say got removed? Jul 20 10:49:43 1.2.0.90.0.20110517.1 Jul 20 10:49:59 i'll hear it from bkalinga :P Jul 20 10:50:07 ok ;) Jul 20 10:50:11 if u install 1.2 your /etc/zypp/repos.d/1.2-oss.repo will have baseurl=http://download.meego.com/snapshots/1.2.0.90.0.20110517.1/repos/oss/source Jul 20 10:50:24 but it no more available Jul 20 10:50:36 there is a valid point here in that it is really hard to install an image and track "1.2 trunk" Jul 20 10:50:52 http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.2.0/images/meego-netbook-ia32/meego-netbook-ia32-1.2.0.ks is 1.2 Jul 20 10:50:56 though I don't think that is actually a desired usecase for most of them Jul 20 10:52:14 ok leave it, thanks mcfrisk: i got it, that is the correct place where it got moved Jul 20 10:55:59 timoph, do the apps in your :home build for harmattan? If so, add your name on here http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Community_device_program/Nokia/Development_repos Jul 20 10:56:02 error while installing libqtserviceframework1-1.2.0~beta0+git2726-9.35.i586 http://pastebin.com/7YSvYzz0 Jul 20 10:58:01 lcuk: nothing that work yet :) Jul 20 10:58:16 I'll list myself there after I get something to work Jul 20 10:58:24 (and worth using) Jul 20 10:58:54 \o Jul 20 10:59:33 * lcuk progressing nicely with calendar http://liqbase.net/20110610_002.jpg Jul 20 11:00:11 nice Jul 20 11:01:05 *sigh* Jul 20 11:01:20 n950/harmattan has bugs - it even encounters bug 13084 Jul 20 11:01:24 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13084 maj, Medium, ---, carsten, ASSI, [n900] Horizontal tearing with xvimagesink Jul 20 11:01:40 when xv mode == screen resolution Jul 20 11:01:52 * lcuk worked around by wiggling screen res Jul 20 11:02:10 but the n950 has a yicky border around and some other stuff Jul 20 11:02:22 I will probably use the qt build on ovi directly Jul 20 11:03:00 it was fun to install directly from my maemo debs Jul 20 11:04:56 :) Jul 20 11:06:17 in qt how do I know my user data folder? Jul 20 11:06:22 (since it changes per OS etc) Jul 20 11:06:38 QDir::homePath() or something like that Jul 20 11:06:57 on symbian everything is inside its own little folder Jul 20 11:07:13 hmmh Jul 20 11:07:24 so my idea of a distinct datasync tool is not gonna work Jul 20 11:07:54 if sketches are not in same accessible place as calendar entries or tags or any of hte other data Jul 20 11:12:17 QDesktopServices::storageLocation is also useful Jul 20 11:14:15 thanks w00t i will take a look later and see Jul 20 11:14:40 * lcuk cannot suss out how to sort out packaging from qt creator yet Jul 20 12:39:34 how does the meego tablet UX decide which icons to use for an application in the "top applications" and "view all applications" displays? Jul 20 12:40:03 and is there a way to trigger an update of these if they are cached? Jul 20 12:42:26 a reboot should take care of the latter Jul 20 12:42:56 dunno if there is something to make the UX update without restarting it (not necessarily reboot) Jul 20 12:43:13 as to the icons in the applications, that's a custom directory IIRC Jul 20 12:43:32 top applications is usage based Jul 20 12:43:56 Jaffa, what was wget useful for? Jul 20 12:46:54 dm8tbr, there seem to be a couple of likely places in /usr/share/themes// Jul 20 12:47:16 lcuk: Spidering repo.pub.meego.com to find anyone who's created a Harmattan home repo/project. Jul 20 13:23:34 * CosmoHill head-bangs the keyboard Jul 20 13:39:01 MIC2 is a fickle friend Jul 20 13:39:37 gabrbedd: i'm finding that out too Jul 20 13:42:11 berndhs: my favorite part is how it "installs" about 800 packages... then fails because one of them failed. Doesn't tell you which... and says it's an rpmdb checksum (which doesn't make you think, "Hmmm... I have a dependency issue." Jul 20 13:42:19 Hey, someone here? Jul 20 13:42:24 Joss: no Jul 20 13:42:28 :-p Jul 20 13:42:31 Who can help me with my brightness problem Jul 20 13:42:56 I have been messing with it for the last entire day Jul 20 13:43:00 if you're a dim person you'd probably be better of asking a college Jul 20 13:43:23 Joss: what's the problem? Jul 20 13:43:38 So I have a samsung n210 netbook Jul 20 13:43:45 The brightness up/down didnt work Jul 20 13:44:00 and pressing fn + down/up freezed the computer Jul 20 13:44:17 so now i have tried different solutions Jul 20 13:44:40 fn down still freezes the computer Jul 20 13:44:49 but it also gets the brightness down Jul 20 13:45:09 Joss: what version/type of meego are you running? Jul 20 13:45:27 and if I try to increase brightness in devices, then it will start flashin ja freezes. Jul 20 13:45:34 the latest version Jul 20 13:46:25 Joss: The latest development version? The latest stable version? The tablet version? The netbook version? Jul 20 13:46:45 2.6.37.2-8.27 Jul 20 13:46:48 netbook version Jul 20 13:47:42 ~seen texrat Jul 20 13:47:54 texrat <47a4a9ca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.164.169.202> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 3d 1h 51m 45s ago, saying: 'hey berndhs'. Jul 20 13:49:12 oh this is special, MIC2 retrieves package version 0.1.4.5 when I know the version is not there any more Jul 20 13:49:14 MeeGo v1.2.0.1 Netbook Jul 20 13:53:07 Joss: Sounds like you have a driver issue. There probably won't be an easy fix... because the issue spans your BIOS, video hardware, and kernel drivers. Jul 20 13:53:12 gabrbedd: any ideas? Jul 20 13:53:32 Joss: what does `find /sys/class/backlight` give you (from a terminal)? Jul 20 13:54:19 find /sys/class/backlight Jul 20 13:54:19 uuh Jul 20 13:54:21 sry Jul 20 13:54:33 /sys/class/backlight Jul 20 13:54:33 /sys/class/backlight/acpi_video0 Jul 20 13:54:35 /sys/class/backlight/samsung Jul 20 13:55:31 Joss: Please file a bug at bugs.meego.com Jul 20 13:56:28 Joss: Also, that `samsung` device implies there's a specially-made samsung backlight driver that probably isn't working right. So it's probably not just a MeeGo issue, if you search around. Jul 20 13:57:04 this samsung backlight I installed myselft Jul 20 13:57:11 or atleast tried to Jul 20 13:57:37 I tried all the solutions I could find online Jul 20 14:01:11 Joss: BTW what cpu do you have? (cat /proc/cpu | grep model) Jul 20 14:01:24 cpuinfo isn't it Jul 20 14:01:30 that's the thing with solutions found online, the majority don't work Jul 20 14:03:22 Stskeeps: I was just curious. Jul 20 14:03:39 gabrbedd: yeah, but i think it's /proc/cpuinfo instead ;) Jul 20 14:03:52 Stskeeps: D'OH! Jul 20 14:03:55 :-) Jul 20 14:04:07 Intel Atom N455model name : Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU N550 @ 1.50GHz Jul 20 14:04:15 model name : Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU N550 @ 1.50GHz Jul 20 14:05:24 Joss: FWIW, I have an Atom N450 with *no* backlight support. :-/ Jul 20 14:05:30 Joss: You've got the dual-core atom? Jul 20 14:06:21 well on windows and ubuntu i got it working Jul 20 14:06:30 no Jul 20 14:06:41 Q: how should kernel modules be build with OBS and MeeGo? I have this blob from Intel... Jul 20 14:07:06 I thought the MeeGo kernel didn't use modules Jul 20 14:07:13 wait, that's definitely wrong Jul 20 14:07:34 we use modules and a few of them Jul 20 14:07:45 mcfrisk: if you ask arjan he'll probably shout at you Jul 20 14:07:46 :P Jul 20 14:08:02 ok, separate third party kernel modules.. Jul 20 14:08:10 yes, I see the trend Jul 20 14:08:17 you can look at how kmod-virtiogl or something is made Jul 20 14:08:34 the solution I currently use is to maximize the brightness while booting Jul 20 14:08:47 that's the only semi-condoned kmod we have Jul 20 14:09:09 thanks, kmod-virtiogl seems like a good example Jul 20 14:20:53 mcfrisk: arjan has stated several times that out-of-tree kernel modules will not be supported in MeeGo. Jul 20 14:21:08 mcfrisk: the solution is to roll your own kernel. Jul 20 14:21:15 * gabrbedd is just the messenger, though. Jul 20 14:21:25 gabrbedd: well, in meego.com.. but it is entirely possible to do them outside Jul 20 14:22:00 gabrbedd: so I must wait for a proper solution :)? Jul 20 14:22:35 the kernel building seems weird in meego anyway Jul 20 14:23:03 it isn't very clear, agreed, but once you understand some things .. :P Jul 20 14:23:08 making a local obs build of a kernel damages the makefiles somehow, you can't rebuild it out of the patches files Jul 20 14:23:19 Stskeeps: yes, it is... which is helpful when building and debugging them. Jul 20 14:23:45 maligor: FWIW, it's much more clear (to me) than when I build kernels for debian. Jul 20 14:23:54 well, Intel says to download their binary rpm's, I'd at least compile it.. Jul 20 14:25:01 Joss: I can't say. Since it's device-specific... it really falls to Samsung to provide the solution. Jul 20 14:25:13 Can't remember what I did to get the patched tree without broken makefiles Jul 20 14:25:23 Joss: ...or for some community member to figure out how Ubuntu did it, and port the solution to MeeGo. Jul 20 14:25:42 I definately didn't want to apply atleast 50 patches manually Jul 20 14:25:58 might've used rpmbuild to prepare it Jul 20 14:26:08 maligor: Don't the kernels ship with a quilt `series` file? Jul 20 14:26:21 IIRC it's kept in sync with the .spec's patch series. Jul 20 14:26:22 in ubuntu it was easy Jul 20 14:26:26 the patching sequence is in the .spec file Jul 20 14:26:37 not sure if there was a serier Jul 20 14:26:40 err.. series Jul 20 14:26:41 just download the samsung-backlight package and you are all done Jul 20 14:26:57 Joss: is that a kernel module or something? Jul 20 14:27:15 i tried to install it via kernel Jul 20 14:28:26 Joss: OK, but it didn't work -- which means that *someone* has to take the time to figure out why. Jul 20 14:28:43 Joss: the way to find that someone is to file a bug. Jul 20 14:28:44 Ok, got it. Jul 20 14:28:53 Jass: as well as discuss the issue here. :-) Jul 20 14:29:15 :) Jul 20 14:40:21 stormer, I recompiled glib-networking with --with-gnome-proxy=no --with-libproxy=yes, using libproxy.so.1 from pacrunner. Then telepathy-gabble links with libgiolibproxy.so and libproxy.so.1.0.0 but it still connect directly without the proxy... Jul 20 15:09:23 Excuse me, I installed Meego on a table, but there's no virtual keyboard, How can I get it? Jul 20 15:09:26 Thanks Jul 20 15:10:59 KermitMei, which Table did you install it onto? Jul 20 15:11:09 * lcuk has it installed on kitchen table Jul 20 15:11:31 KermitMei: And what image did you install? Jul 20 15:11:32 lcuk: haha Jul 20 15:11:37 Tablet PC from ViewSonic Jul 20 15:11:42 KermitMei: 1.1 should have a virtual keyboard Jul 20 15:11:45 Atom inside Jul 20 15:12:02 But I'm using 1.2. Jul 20 15:12:06 Any way? Jul 20 15:12:30 http://wiki.meego.com/Devices/Ideapad#On-screen_keyboard Jul 20 15:12:34 try that Jul 20 15:12:36 KermitMei: did you install the tablet image or the netbook version? Jul 20 15:14:12 Meego-desktop 2.6.38.2-8.12. I think its neetbook version ... Jul 20 15:14:53 then try one of the later tablet builds Jul 20 15:15:28 i tried a 1.2.0.90 tablet build, it has a virtual keyboard Jul 20 15:16:33 I remember that I haven't found the tablet version on meego's home page, and then try the netbook version Jul 20 15:16:49 KermitMei: the standard netbook version does /not/ have a virtual keyboard. Jul 20 15:17:11 KermitMei: There has not been a "stable" release of the tablet version... they're all development builds. Jul 20 15:17:17 KermitMei: here's the latest.... Jul 20 15:17:17 Hmm, I see, now. Jul 20 15:18:00 KermitMei: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.2.0.90/1.2.0.90.9.20110719.4/images/meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail/ Jul 20 15:22:05 lbt X-Fade how fast does a built package get into the repository as a debian file ? There are packages that were built half a day ago, but still not available from the repository. Jul 20 15:22:48 (Harmattan target) Jul 20 15:24:26 djszapi, non Harmattan packages are also not being reliably published Jul 20 15:26:16 vgrade: Could you please refine what "not reliably" means in this context ? Jul 20 15:27:22 I'm seeing build.pub.meego.com say it has 0.1.4.6, whild repo.pub.meego.com still has 0.1.4.5 Jul 20 15:28:34 djszapi, I had some pacakges published this morning around 9am GMT but not all I submitted. I've also been getting stuck builds. My arm libmeegotouch build is in that state now. Jul 20 15:29:33 vgrade: I see. I gave up I will ever have a kdelibs working on /c-obs/. Jul 20 15:30:23 vgrade: how long does it take you to build libmeegotouch ? Jul 20 15:30:42 djszapi: vgrade: in the case I'm seeing, the building is trivial, its just a shell script. So the issue is pushing the build results into the repo Jul 20 15:32:16 berndhs, agreed. The builds go through fine and the GUI says writted to repo. Just they dont end up there. Jul 20 15:32:20 berndhs: I wish the build was trivial. I have been trying to build kdelibs for 1-2 weeks on c-obs. It always worked in my environment, when I finished the debian folder content. Jul 20 15:33:06 the most common build issue is this "rpc" timeout for me. Jul 20 15:33:57 yesterday I also saw many timeouts trying to pull pacakges from the repo with mic2 Jul 20 15:34:14 djszapi, 14 mins for libmeegotough Jul 20 15:34:33 vgrade: kdelibs is 4-5 hours :) Jul 20 15:35:54 djszapi, must be your build that's causing the problem :) Jul 20 15:36:11 What do you mean ? Jul 20 15:36:45 joke Jul 20 15:37:25 I just set up a new repo in OBS and built a package successfully, but the repo won't publish Jul 20 15:37:43 It says "The setup of repository is broken, build not possible" Jul 20 15:39:34 fiferboy, Do you have the lorry icon, 'Repository has been published' Jul 20 15:40:58 vgrade: I am not sure 6 GB physical memory is enough for the Harmattan target. Jul 20 15:43:47 djszapi, the target does work sometimes , http://repo.pub.meego.com/home:/vgrade%3a/twingo/Harmattan/armel/ Jul 20 15:45:13 vgrade: I do not doubt, but I think 6 GB is problematic for goliath builds, like KDE. Jul 20 15:45:35 mainly if does more compilation units in paralel. Jul 20 15:46:43 vgrade: No, I get a red error icon Jul 20 15:47:27 djszapi, OK I see. I notice that the main OBS does Qt builds on dedicated workers. Jul 20 15:47:55 fiferboy, ok, good at least your build is giving accurate status Jul 20 15:48:22 lbt is on leave today has anyone seen X-Fade Jul 20 15:48:22 Trying a rebuild of the package to see if it will trigger the right status Jul 20 15:48:40 vgrade: well, I cannot mention any other reason seriously. Jul 20 15:49:08 After the build finishes it goes to a warning state saying: "State needs recalculations, former state was: Build jobs exist" Jul 20 15:49:29 it is annoying, my kdelibs build finished at least 3-4 times. (they took me 4-5 hours) Afterwards, before installing, it got stuck and that was the end of the story. I think it is memory or cache issue in that stage because I cannot come up with any other reasonable arguement. :) Jul 20 15:49:37 vgrade ^ Jul 20 15:50:42 djszapi, what are you using the kdelibs for (ie which apps need them?) Jul 20 15:50:44 I have not known till this conversation, the "rpm timeout" comes from mic2. Jul 20 15:50:53 we will need to wait for the admins to look further Jul 20 15:51:11 lcuk: any that is ported. For instance the whole pim, but kalgebra for a nice example. Jul 20 15:51:43 but seriously a tons of opportunity for KDE developers to start porting their application to this phone. Do not forget, KDE != plasma only. Jul 20 15:52:06 Build went to succeeded, status "Build jobs have been processed, new repository is not yet created" Jul 20 15:52:09 i do not know the layout of kde, hence the question Jul 20 15:52:11 This looks a bit more promising Jul 20 15:52:34 fiferboy, \o Jul 20 15:52:43 I was thinking of you and lardman the other day Jul 20 15:53:02 * lcuk had whole conversation about a plane spotting/recognition app Jul 20 15:53:10 lcuk: you did not see the kde application on fremantle ? Jul 20 15:53:23 lcuk: o/ Jul 20 15:53:31 djszapi, I have seen mek running kde applications Jul 20 15:53:33 someone even used kde workspace on meego devices, tablets. Jul 20 15:53:39 I have heard of plane spotting applications before Jul 20 15:53:56 but on the whole, most kde apps are desktop and large apps which looked cramped and not very usable Jul 20 15:54:03 same as any desktop apps Jul 20 15:54:28 djszapi, I saw mek playing with plasma widgets at some point Jul 20 15:54:33 which seems more feasible Jul 20 15:54:35 lcuk: http://kde.garage.maemo.org/screenshots_kdebase.html Jul 20 15:54:42 Yay! "Repository is created right now" Jul 20 15:55:29 Hmm, back to "Build jobs have been processed, new repository is not yet created" Jul 20 15:55:32 OBS is messing with me Jul 20 15:59:05 lcuk: kde is not equal to kde-mobile :) They are porting the desktop applications to QML, Plasma Quick and so forth. They do not compile the widget based applications and run :) Jul 20 16:00:07 djszapi, so what is kdelibs that you are trying to build for? Jul 20 16:00:11 kde desktop or kde mobile? Jul 20 16:00:23 lcuk: "Mobile" profile :) Jul 20 16:01:22 albanc: ok, first step done, next step is to replace the Gnome 2 proxy UI to setup the PACRunner Jul 20 16:02:02 albanc: Instead of writing into GConf, the guy who decided to move to PACRunner was kind enough to push this into stable meego without completing the installation Jul 20 16:02:14 albanc: I mean the implementation Jul 20 16:09:41 lcuk: come to the Desktop Summit ? Jul 20 16:12:12 lcuk: good example where KDE could come into the picture is Konversation with a nice IRC client. Currently, we are really missing one. Jul 20 16:12:46 lcuk: but the whole KDE EDU thing, just think of that how many students have phones nowadays so that they could learn this way with their gadget since that is more interesting for them than with paper and pen :) Jul 20 16:13:46 but games, personal information management, so wide palette.. Jul 20 16:20:46 djszapi, the paper and pen thing needs working on Jul 20 16:20:58 since finger painting on a small device only allows a few words on the screen :P Jul 20 16:21:16 dual mode devices are a must Jul 20 16:21:50 I really want to see meego support for the htc flyer Jul 20 16:22:33 lcuk: you have basically pinch area. Jul 20 16:22:45 djszapi, I know the technical aspects Jul 20 16:23:03 since I am one of the rare folks who prefers pen input Jul 20 16:23:12 http://liqbase.net/20110610_002.jpg Jul 20 16:23:43 http://liqbase.net/liq.20110623_015300.liqbase-playground.scr.png Jul 20 16:24:18 lcuk: speaking of which, okular...nice PDF viewer. Jul 20 16:24:49 djszapi, how performant are these desktop apps on mobile devices? Jul 20 16:25:28 lcuk: why would it be any different from any QML app after a port ? I think it is even better since the libraries and background operations have been tested for ages on desktop. Jul 20 16:25:30 and how well will they run within swipe ux for instance Jul 20 16:25:48 djszapi, tested for ages on desktop != optimal on mobile Jul 20 16:25:54 lcuk: you should visit pinheiro's presentation at the Desktop Summit :) Jul 20 16:25:57 desktop has not had performance lag for many years Jul 20 16:26:15 lcuk: the point is that the functionality is as optimal as possible. Jul 20 16:26:18 since you can easily say use more memory faster cpu super graphics card etc Jul 20 16:26:33 which is rarely the case when you writing a mobile app from scratch right now for Harmattan. Jul 20 16:26:39 the last time I saw anyone really worrying about performance was late 90s when .net 1.0 came out Jul 20 16:27:52 lcuk: you should really listen to this presentation :) https://www.desktopsummit.org/program/sessions/qml-designers-prespective Jul 20 16:28:19 it is from a KDE designer/artist, oxygen-icons author.. Jul 20 16:29:14 I can hardly believe some of the programmer can design better Ui for mobile devices than him for KDE applications, if you ask for help :) Jul 20 16:30:46 djszapi, good afternoon Jul 20 16:30:50 djszapi, the key benefit of qml does not come from the fact it is qml, it is the IDE which helps. Jul 20 16:30:54 djszapi, so, could you please take a look at http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTCREATORBUG-5459 ? Jul 20 16:31:20 djszapi, rapid app development can work in any toolkit Jul 20 16:31:38 lcuk: that is really personal opinion, nothing technical. Jul 20 16:31:45 and designer or developer or person working on UX needs to get to know the toolkit and environment to be good at it Jul 20 16:31:59 disagree :) Jul 20 16:32:24 lcuk, hah, there is currently no IDE for QML editing. at least Qt Creator's designer doesn't work with the components Jul 20 16:32:34 djszapi, if a UX designer is fluent in potoshop or in flash Jul 20 16:32:38 they are no good at qml Jul 20 16:32:44 until they know how to use qml Jul 20 16:32:50 lcuk: It takes me ages to find the right area in a designer, meanwhile it is one command in vi ;) Jul 20 16:33:02 this opinion is really not technical, but personal. Jul 20 16:33:09 http://liqbase.net/packaging_learning_curves.jpg Jul 20 16:33:17 s/packaging/ux toolkit/ Jul 20 16:33:19 lcuk meant: http://liqbase.net/ux toolkit_learning_curves.jpg Jul 20 16:33:30 same occurs Jul 20 16:33:43 designers get good using the tools they use Jul 20 16:33:54 whatever the toolkit or language, developers ahve to get the application logic correct Jul 20 16:33:58 my mate is an exceptional CAD designer - using autocad Jul 20 16:34:04 not approximately correct, but completely correct Jul 20 16:34:12 the tool or language doesn't help there Jul 20 16:34:18 but give him another CAD package (say qml based..) he would not be as good for a while Jul 20 16:34:40 yeah Jul 20 16:34:50 I learned autocad years ago Jul 20 16:34:56 now I got archicad Jul 20 16:35:03 and I'm lost with it Jul 20 16:35:51 I only need to draw one floorplan and it's next to impossible without a learning new things :( Jul 20 16:36:32 * gabrbedd used Microstation (CAD) for years. Jul 20 16:36:53 Then the company switched to AutoCRAP because "that's what our customers use." Jul 20 16:37:10 And I kept asking, "Do our customers design our machines, too?" Jul 20 16:52:12 does the community device program have a ML? Jul 20 16:55:54 Hmm, I can get the package to build in my OBS repo but I still can't get the repo to publish Jul 20 16:56:12 I don't suppose there is a way to push through repo publication... Jul 20 17:00:14 DawnFoster, I posted a tweak of that mail directly to noteslate people and also onto meego-community ML Jul 20 17:00:30 if I hear anything more and it is not on the ML I will update the thread there Jul 20 17:00:37 lcuk: cool, thanks Jul 20 17:00:43 * lcuk should send similar to the HTC Flyer people Jul 20 17:27:32 Hey Intel guys, how long we can expect that a particular Atom variant might be available, in general? Are there some that have long-term support and not others? I see Intel has done some second-sourcing of Atom, but not a lot? Intel is such a big company, can't imagine who to ask. Jul 20 17:31:56 hey auke Jul 20 17:32:40 Alison_Chaiken: developer.intel.com might be a reasoable place to poke around Jul 20 17:35:45 * lcuk makes a paper aeroplane and flies it around the chan Jul 20 17:35:55 MY EYE Jul 20 17:36:12 DawnFoster, :: Jul 20 17:36:13 Jul 20 17:36:13 noteslate NoteSlate Jul 20 17:36:13 @lcuk we will consider for noteslate MeeGo, as alternative implementation to NS Firmware. Jul 20 17:36:29 lcuk: cool, thanks Jul 20 17:36:49 someone who is better negotiator than me please take up this and see what can be done :$ Jul 20 17:37:20 * lcuk cannot find right words when needed Jul 20 17:38:12 fiferboy, don't think there is anythine we can do Jul 20 17:39:05 vgrade, fiferboy - see what magic lbt and X-Fade and the team can come up with Jul 20 17:39:15 but sit and wait for the admins to have a look Jul 20 17:39:30 vgrade, lcuk - I'll wait a while and trigger a rebuild to see if it is still acting up Jul 20 17:40:55 fiferboy, with the n950 can you take decent photos of the birds you are watching? Jul 20 17:41:03 or have you not ftaken it out into the field yet? Jul 20 17:41:28 lcuk: Not nearly long enough lens, unfortunately Jul 20 17:41:46 it is not the size of the lens, it is how you use it :P Jul 20 17:42:30 Alison_Chaiken: in general, Intel has hardware availability plans that are very short term - you'd have to talk to a seller to get precise information... Jul 20 17:48:01 lcuk: Yes, if I could get within 4 feet of all the birds I see I would be the best ninja bird watcher Jul 20 17:50:23 auke, a buddy who is deploying Atoms as camera controllers at SLAC sent me this: http://www.intel.com/p/en_US/embedded/hwsw/hardware/atom Jul 20 17:50:49 So it sounds like the answer is 7 years, altho I'm not sure when the clock starts for each product. Jul 20 17:52:13 The embedded cycles are longer - 7 years sounds right. Jul 20 17:52:14 Probably measured from first customer ship. Jul 20 17:52:47 Consumer cycles would be in the 1-2 year range. Jul 20 17:52:51 in general, "atom" will be available for a long time, but specific versions may be discontinued at any time... Jul 20 17:53:13 * pixelgeek inserts a disclaimer - contact your reseller for full details. Jul 20 17:53:17 yup Jul 20 17:54:22 The reseller will get notified on all the End Of Life notices and last ship dates. Jul 20 17:55:37 And of course the system the Atom is in may go EOL before the chip itself. Jul 20 18:07:03 For certain kinds of projects, long-term availability is key, so companies cannot plan to use a product if availability is not guaranteed for at least a few years. Jul 20 18:07:50 Contacting newegg or whoever periodically to find out if a product is still available is not very convenient, to put it mildly! Jul 20 18:08:00 talk to an intel rep Jul 20 18:08:32 or a volume seller, not newegg... ;) Jul 20 18:10:59 hey GeneralAntilles Jul 20 18:32:17 I don't get it. repo.meego.com has an image for tablet 1.2.80.8.0.20110628.2 and a ks file, but mic2 won't build from that ks file Jul 20 18:32:50 says failed to find pacakge 'moblin-live' Jul 20 18:32:55 the snapshot folder that it's pointing to is probably no longer there Jul 20 18:33:29 ah Jul 20 18:34:47 i took an image from a builds/ tree, hoping it is reproducible Jul 20 18:35:49 * lcuk cannot seem to get mic2 to build arm images Jul 20 18:35:53 * lcuk sad panda Jul 20 18:44:41 * gabrbedd kicks mic2 Jul 20 18:44:45 bad doggie! Jul 20 18:48:02 lcuk, what problems are you having Jul 20 18:48:52 vgrade, it was a few days ago and probably driver error. I will try again when I am motivated. Jul 20 18:49:06 * lcuk lacking energy tonight and cannot play football because its raining Jul 20 18:49:35 lcuk, I've had the most sucess with mic using a fedora vm Jul 20 18:49:49 I was trying from within meego netbook Jul 20 18:50:20 tonight I am mostly trying to work out how to fix bug 13084 Jul 20 18:50:23 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13084 maj, Medium, ---, carsten, ASSI, [n900] Horizontal tearing with xvimagesink Jul 20 18:50:41 but it is frustratingly annoying to even see the problem let alone make a patch to cure it Jul 20 18:50:48 but it impacts harmattan also Jul 20 18:50:51 lcuk: check the versions of xserver-xorg-video-fbdev and compare that with the one we have Jul 20 18:50:59 * gabrbedd scribbles down "fedora vm for mic2 (props to vgrade)" Jul 20 18:51:01 Stskeeps, its been a long standing bug Jul 20 18:51:04 lcuk: i know Jul 20 18:51:10 lcuk: but it surprises me it's in n950 too Jul 20 18:51:14 as in, various versions Jul 20 18:51:27 i couldnt even work out how to clone the right package to even try and fix it Jul 20 18:51:54 Stskeeps, if I open liqbase at 854*480 it has identical symptom Jul 20 18:51:58 vgrade: know of any translation tables for mic2 errors? i.e. "When mic2 says 'X' then it's probably actually 'Y'" Jul 20 18:52:05 lcuk: interesting Jul 20 18:52:07 but if I open window 800*480 it sortof runs ok Jul 20 18:52:26 but not perfectly by any means Jul 20 18:52:48 seems xvideo is low priority everywhere Jul 20 18:53:03 * lcuk considers giving up and becomes a gardener instead Jul 20 18:53:29 * lcuk even curses having to use software rotation Jul 20 18:53:35 since xvideo in portrait has never worked Jul 20 18:53:58 http://liqbase.net/liqbase_rotate_480x480.jpg Jul 20 18:54:07 xvideo portrait mode on the *N810* Jul 20 18:54:13 * lcuk bahs Jul 20 18:55:37 xvideo sucks Jul 20 18:55:40 don't use it Jul 20 18:56:01 what do you suggest I use? Jul 20 18:56:18 what are you trying to achieve? Jul 20 18:56:42 running portrait mode YUV code without having to do slow ass software rotation Jul 20 18:56:55 * lcuk got rotation to 40fps on n900 Jul 20 18:57:12 no Jul 20 18:57:16 but it is a whole 20fps slower than it needs to be since the omapfb driver should work happily rotated Jul 20 18:57:18 what are you trying to achieve? Jul 20 18:57:35 ali1234, run liqbase in portrait Jul 20 18:57:46 and on meego, run liqbase at all Jul 20 18:58:11 sorry, meego n900 Jul 20 18:58:18 meego netbook it runs better than flawlessly Jul 20 18:58:34 I would take up gardening right now, but its 34C outside, this is the wrong day Jul 20 18:59:14 wait Jul 20 18:59:27 liqbase, the notepad emulator Jul 20 18:59:32 why does this need portrait mode? Jul 20 18:59:48 just turn the device sideways and carry on Jul 20 19:00:09 ali1234, it has wanted portrait mode always Jul 20 19:00:21 why does this involve changing code? Jul 20 19:00:23 turning it on its side is not practical for some elements Jul 20 19:00:36 the video mode does not run portrait Jul 20 19:00:43 so what? Jul 20 19:00:48 as seen by the extremely old screenshot Jul 20 19:00:48 i don't see why this is a problem Jul 20 19:01:21 because I dont want pictures on their side Jul 20 19:01:24 or writing etc Jul 20 19:01:35 then rotate it in your scene graph Jul 20 19:01:57 writing won't fit on the screen if you rotate it 90 degrees of course Jul 20 19:02:04 but there's not much you can do about that Jul 20 19:02:19 sigh Jul 20 19:02:22 unless you originally wrote it in portrait mode Jul 20 19:02:30 liqbase was written without qt and does not have scenegraph Jul 20 19:02:36 but then in that case you don't need portrait mode, you just need to turn the whole device on it's side Jul 20 19:02:59 well in that case you should rewrite it to have a scene graph Jul 20 19:03:04 sigh Jul 20 19:03:08 or fix the drivers Jul 20 19:03:52 well, enjoy maintaining that outdated and horrible API... Jul 20 19:04:18 ali1234, forgetting about portrait, the xvideo mode on meego handset makes things look like this: Jul 20 19:04:19 http://liqbase.net/20110314_007.jpg Jul 20 19:04:32 well yeah. typical xvideo crap Jul 20 19:04:33 bug 13084 as the discussion started Jul 20 19:04:37 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13084 maj, Medium, ---, carsten, ASSI, [n900] Horizontal tearing with xvimagesink Jul 20 19:04:44 that's not tearing Jul 20 19:04:51 that's an incorrect width buffer Jul 20 19:04:53 no, its a bug Jul 20 19:05:09 and if you load up the n900-ce, and try to watch the included demo video Jul 20 19:05:12 sintel_trailer Jul 20 19:05:14 actually judging from the weird colours i would say "YUV mode not supported" most likely Jul 20 19:05:17 that is what you see Jul 20 19:05:25 yes i have seen it Jul 20 19:05:31 i thought that was fixed actually Jul 20 19:05:45 well that is exactly as seen just yesterday Jul 20 19:06:02 and exactly as even occurs on harmattan in specific modes Jul 20 19:06:31 the answer to all your problems is to stop using programming techniques from 1997, seriously Jul 20 19:06:32 the portrait niggles are not important and just frustrate me personally :) Jul 20 19:06:50 ali1234, the meego-app-video has this Jul 20 19:06:53 and that is written in qt Jul 20 19:07:13 yes, i know Jul 20 19:07:18 you are not playing video Jul 20 19:07:25 therefore you should not be using xvideo Jul 20 19:07:28 bug 13084 is Jul 20 19:07:31 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13084 maj, Medium, ---, carsten, ASSI, [n900] Horizontal tearing with xvimagesink Jul 20 19:07:35 yeah if everyone just used scene graphs, we wouldn't have all these problems Jul 20 19:07:37 ali1234, why not? Jul 20 19:07:46 i wanted a greyscale planar surface to draw on Jul 20 19:07:53 because xvideo is designed for playing video, and it's not even particularly good at that Jul 20 19:07:55 YUV (thanks to the Y channel) gives that Jul 20 19:08:07 colour is not important to me Jul 20 19:08:19 tearfree grayscale was and is Jul 20 19:08:32 the noteslate is a black and white device Jul 20 19:08:33 stop using bitmaps for everything, this is not DOS, you have accelerated line drawing algorithms Jul 20 19:08:36 which is dreamy Jul 20 19:08:43 ali1234, ? Jul 20 19:08:52 line drawing was removed from opengl es Jul 20 19:09:00 you cannot do real wireframes Jul 20 19:09:04 you have to use pixel shaders Jul 20 19:09:20 and this is a problem, because? Jul 20 19:09:25 modern open gl has no direct line drawing acceleration Jul 20 19:09:36 so where is it coming from? Jul 20 19:09:55 very thin polygons Jul 20 19:10:11 :) Jul 20 20:21:26 vgrade: 98%, let us see... :) https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=kdelibs&project=home%3Adjszapi&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan Jul 20 20:37:37 djszapi_, fingers crossed Jul 20 20:38:57 I see others having issues, fiferboy, kimju Jul 20 20:51:17 vgrade: nothing in the last half an hour. It got again stuck Jul 20 21:08:08 hmm virtual keyboard appears automatically, smooth Jul 20 21:08:31 and then I don't know how to close it :) Jul 20 21:08:39 easy, click out of it Jul 20 21:09:35 nope Jul 20 21:10:13 report a bug ? Jul 20 21:10:29 perhaps, I'll play with it for a while first Jul 20 21:10:47 it goes away when switching out the application and back into it Jul 20 21:16:32 berndhs: Drag from the top of the VKB widget all the way down. Jul 20 21:16:46 berndhs: Needs to be a smooth, but brisk motion. Jul 20 21:16:54 berndhs: if you're too slow, it'll ignore you. Jul 20 21:17:18 hmm Jul 20 21:17:41 ah yes that works Jul 20 22:01:17 hi all Jul 20 22:02:52 anyone knows how to remove folder from favorites on the n950 mail client app? Jul 20 22:05:03 select a folder, tap the folder selection icon on the bottom left, scroll to the folder and un-star the folder Jul 20 22:10:14 thiago: i fail to find the "folder selection icon" :( ... after selecting a folder there are only these icons, from left to right: "<-", "+", "yin-yan-arrows for refresh" and "3-horizontal lines" Jul 20 22:10:48 it should be second icon, between <- and + Jul 20 22:11:00 unless they changed since I last had access to a Harmattan build Jul 20 22:11:58 thiago: so theres none between <- and + Jul 20 22:13:09 thiago: thanks anyway Jul 20 22:20:20 hi :) Jul 20 22:21:10 is there some documentation to the harmattan and fremantle targets on the community OBS ? Jul 20 22:28:53 M4rtinK2, the harmattan build systems are being routed and plumbed in as we speak Jul 20 22:34:47 lcuk: nice ! so I'll just wait a little bit :) Jul 20 22:36:58 I'll have to port quite a few packages for my projects (espeak,cairo, etc.) and I would really like to do it "properly" through OBS from the start without fiddling with the SDK too much :) Jul 20 22:59:33 making a triple boot system, wish me luck :) Jul 20 23:00:48 berndhs: what did you do to the router this time? Jul 20 23:01:02 and why am I covered in peanut butter Jul 20 23:01:57 my router only does ipv6, it's not responsible for these splits :) Jul 20 23:04:24 mine only does various degrees of crapyness Jul 20 23:38:35 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKyryIUK1Ao <-- the new orbiter prototype coming up for the very first time on the n950 Jul 20 23:40:10 2 views, woot Jul 20 23:40:35 you're pressing too hard, gonna break the thing Jul 20 23:40:48 that's what she said Jul 20 23:40:57 no, it's actually a case of me not used to a capacitive screen Jul 20 23:40:57 or he...one of them Jul 20 23:41:01 am using my fingernail subconsciously Jul 21 00:37:49 TSCHAKeee, nice. QML Orbiter on N950 Jul 21 00:38:07 yup it's a start Jul 21 00:38:25 we're slowly building a bridge between Qt and the STL code Jul 21 00:38:34 and then we can actually start doing UI Jul 21 00:38:42 and no, the final UI will be completely different Jul 21 00:38:49 we seriously want to go WAY OUTSIDE THE BOX Jul 21 00:40:17 lets hope Aegis will allow it Jul 21 00:40:26 nighrt Jul 21 00:43:42 Anybody know of a VM that can emulate a Core2 (or Atom) from a Core Duo? Jul 21 00:47:02 vgrade: Aegis? Jul 21 00:47:17 Security framework Jul 21 00:48:49 how the hell can I test Aegis appeasement ahead of time? Jul 21 00:53:59 vgrade: also, I've been deploying my app out of QtCreator, which is making an aegis okay package, so I think I'm okay for now Jul 21 00:54:04 I didn't relax the exec privileges Jul 21 01:50:03 morning Jul 21 01:50:14 howdy Jul 21 02:30:42 wow, looks like aegis is proving to be as end-user hostile as I expected **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jul 21 02:59:56 2011