**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Aug 10 02:59:57 2011 Aug 10 03:14:25 oh hi Aug 10 03:14:41 first time here. may I ask some questions about the N9 ? Aug 10 03:15:08 theres a #harmattan channel for that, but I doubt anyone would get angry Aug 10 03:15:56 thanks ! i'll ask there Aug 10 03:41:35 mornign Aug 10 04:26:56 'menta Aug 10 04:56:47 Quick question, Ive found a missing webcam driver and figured out how to build it from Ubuntu Code. Can someone point me to someone who might like to know? A dev or something? Or should I just file a bug report with the details? Aug 10 05:00:47 what is it exactly that's missing? Aug 10 05:01:59 Oh, a webcam driver. Thats all. Its completely absent from almost every distro Ive used, including Ubuntu. You chave to manually compile it from code. Aug 10 05:02:11 I had to adjust the code for it to load on meego Aug 10 05:02:45 aha, you want to package the kernel module then? Aug 10 05:02:50 And damn... Finding the libraries was a mission... Aug 10 05:03:03 or find someone who might do so Aug 10 05:03:25 Im not entirely sure. I just wanted to give the code to someone else who might be able to do something constructive with it. Im no developer. Aug 10 05:04:23 typically, driver's get prepared for inclusion in the kernel, if its open source. and if its up to standards, gets included Aug 10 05:04:37 Ok, so just file a CR bug? Aug 10 05:05:07 probably the best approach Aug 10 05:05:18 Ok, cool. Aug 10 05:05:26 Cheers bro Aug 10 05:05:32 Ill do that tonight Aug 10 05:06:12 file bug, include all patches etc Aug 10 05:06:22 then if someone comes looking for it they will find it Aug 10 05:07:39 Yup yup. I will have some questions though. So Ill be back. There is one for a Sony Memory Stick reader, and another for the Ricoh webcam. But I need some dev tips as well to try and get the code up to scratch. So Ill be back later. :) See ya soon! Aug 10 08:06:40 i installed meego tablet ux on my wetab/exopc Aug 10 08:07:19 how can i now boot from usb drive? i want to install the notebook ux, as the tablet ux seems not to have any apps Aug 10 08:25:33 morning \o Aug 10 08:30:07 anyone could tell me what command is used to generate .packages files in image directories, please? Aug 10 09:36:45 * CosmoHill gives slaine and lcuk a cup of tea and puts one on lbt_away's desk for when he gets back Aug 10 09:37:13 morning Aug 10 09:37:33 hello Aug 10 09:37:43 Ah, cheers CosmoHill Aug 10 09:37:49 hey slaine Aug 10 09:37:54 * slaine slurps Aug 10 09:38:03 lbt, welcome, safe travels I assume Aug 10 09:38:11 Sunny Helsinki Aug 10 09:38:24 s/welcome,/welcome back,/ Aug 10 09:38:25 slaine meant: lbt, welcome back, safe travels I assume Aug 10 09:39:01 saw your comment in the CO meeting ... wanted to make sure I understood it :) Aug 10 09:39:37 CosmoHill, is there coffee? Aug 10 09:39:46 * CosmoHill waves his wand Aug 10 09:39:46 yes Aug 10 09:39:49 lbt, the CO meeting was quite productive Aug 10 09:40:12 it got some clarity Aug 10 09:40:27 but I see we don't yet have an LF email reply Aug 10 09:40:55 and IMHO the response is different from the one I'd expected Aug 10 09:41:04 this sounds more like "not yet" than "no" Aug 10 09:44:05 lbt, what do I need to clarify ? Aug 10 09:44:33 oh ... I'm being sensitive ... the storm in a teacup comment ... Aug 10 09:44:45 lbt, does the -boss channel indicate all items through c-obs? Aug 10 09:45:15 I think you mean that this is an inevitable squabble that would happen if apps.m.c was refused Aug 10 09:45:32 and it was likely to be refused all along (though I don't agree with that) Aug 10 09:46:00 but wanted to just make sure I knew what you meant Aug 10 09:46:25 lcuk: pretty much Aug 10 09:47:32 good stuff, it is always moving with loads of projects Aug 10 09:47:52 yep Aug 10 09:48:04 and adam helped us stabilise the workers Aug 10 09:48:11 so they seem to be happier now Aug 10 09:52:53 lbt, for somebody with maemo experience, is http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_OBS the best way to get going with meego and harmattan apps? Aug 10 09:53:08 how much of an effort would it take to port my QML IRC client from Harmattan to MeeGo? Aug 10 09:53:11 mmm ... not looked at it enough :( Aug 10 09:53:24 morning lcuk, how're you today? :) Aug 10 09:53:25 Venemo_N950: the idea is "not much" Aug 10 09:53:29 Venemo_N950, qt components are just being added this week to the n900-ce Aug 10 09:53:34 lbt, well, don't be offended by anything I said. I certainly meant no disrespect Aug 10 09:53:43 Venemo_N950, tired Aug 10 09:53:46 slaine: no, I didn't think so :) Aug 10 09:54:01 are they the same qt-components? with QtQuick 1.1? Aug 10 09:54:16 slaine: I'm trying to gauge peoples opinions.... and make sure I'm not just tunnel-visioned Aug 10 09:54:35 Venemo_N950, afaik, yes Aug 10 09:55:03 the merge request is on the build images queue and pending being created Aug 10 09:55:13 the components are afaik tested to a degree Aug 10 09:55:34 nice :) Aug 10 09:55:53 in that case, I humbly offer my irc client to MeeGo :) Aug 10 09:56:00 lol Aug 10 09:56:20 My take is, that formeego.com is where we where bound to end up eventually, as LF/Intel/Nokia have shown little enthusiasm for fostering MeeGo Extras/Garage/Surrounds/Apps all along. Focusing on their own AppUp/Ovi model. I felt that we're not far off from where we would have been regardless of how the communications had flowed over the last number of week. Storm in a teacup was probably the wrong term to use (dismissive sounding). Aug 10 09:56:25 Venemo_N950: work with X-Fade on getting it into apps Aug 10 09:56:43 it needs me to finish it at first, obviously :P Aug 10 09:57:25 lbt, okay, I'll do that Aug 10 09:57:26 I'm thankful for the time and energy that's gone into this and feel that now the dependency on LF has been broken, we're free to actually proceed with this. Aug 10 09:57:46 it's a liberating outcome for all parties I think Aug 10 09:57:58 slaine, proceed with what? Aug 10 09:58:13 a repo for community applications Aug 10 09:58:21 apps.meego.com? Aug 10 09:58:30 in all but name Aug 10 09:58:38 hm? Aug 10 09:58:47 slaine: OK ... I saw DawnFoster's enthusiasm at the SF conference so I am (still) not giving up. I don't know what other factors may have influenced LF. I don't want to read too much into Brian's conversational irc comments and I'm still waiting for a carefully worded email Aug 10 09:59:02 ah, you're talking about that ridiculous decision of the LF? Aug 10 09:59:06 * RST38h sighs Aug 10 09:59:18 what's interesting is that c.obs is still OK at meego.com ... which I am delighted about Aug 10 09:59:28 but I want it in writing Aug 10 09:59:35 If Intel really wanted to help, they would be already running a repo for you. Aug 10 09:59:42 we have a repo Aug 10 09:59:52 With or without LF's approval Aug 10 09:59:53 we're not allowed an appstore application Aug 10 09:59:58 LF are a bunch of android-lovers, it was a mistake to give meego to them Aug 10 10:00:16 * lbt not interested in dissing LF ... :) Aug 10 10:00:27 I think Dawn is enthusiastic from a "good for the community" perspective, I wouldn't read too much into that in the form of Intel policy and plans. ICBW Aug 10 10:00:27 lbt: Please, explain (sorry). I was under impression that you were not allowed to store binaries in a repo, just sources? Aug 10 10:00:39 Venemo_N950, not helping Aug 10 10:00:54 RST38h: indeed... Aug 10 10:01:07 lbt: What does appstore have to do with it? Aug 10 10:01:14 which is why allowing the c.obs has *always* been at odds with forbidding apps.meego.com Aug 10 10:01:25 RST38h: apps.meego.com is not a repo... it's a php search tool Aug 10 10:01:35 a frontend pointing to cobs Aug 10 10:01:37 lbt: the enlarged scope (community, no longer hardware community) was acked by him, see bug Aug 10 10:01:38 lcuk, well, it's their trademark, they can do with it anything they want, can't they Aug 10 10:01:50 apps.meego.com does not even resolve Aug 10 10:02:05 dm8tbr: it's up to the community how we want to split ourselves ... I suggest as little as possible :) Aug 10 10:02:10 lbt: Ok. So how is it different from Packrat? Aug 10 10:02:26 * RST38h reminds himself of having to update Packrat Aug 10 10:02:43 lbt: My point is still. Do not split at all. count meego.com and formeego.org as the greater thing that meego really is Aug 10 10:03:00 dm8tbr: *nod* ... fine :) Aug 10 10:03:01 then it becomes less relevant where exactly you put what Aug 10 10:03:25 RST38h: packrat encourages multiple repos and is evil :) Aug 10 10:03:34 * RST38h likes being evil Aug 10 10:03:45 sure... some people do ;) Aug 10 10:03:51 lbt: So you would like to limit packrat to searching your cobs repos and call it an appstore, or what? Aug 10 10:03:56 yes Aug 10 10:04:02 I can do that for you, no problemo Aug 10 10:04:17 As long as you give me a server to install it on Aug 10 10:04:19 The apps part does a lot more. It also does the whole qa thing. Aug 10 10:04:24 RST38h, QA processes Aug 10 10:04:24 so talk to X-Fade and co. Aug 10 10:04:27 and here he is Aug 10 10:04:29 ah ok Aug 10 10:04:40 X-Fade: Got some permanent place for packrat? Aug 10 10:04:41 since they've been working on this for months... Aug 10 10:04:54 it's likely too late to influence the design Aug 10 10:05:00 RST38h: No, Apps is basically done. Aug 10 10:05:00 since the code is mainly done.... Aug 10 10:05:12 ah ok, back to the original "evil" design then. Aug 10 10:05:18 mmm Aug 10 10:05:48 so "I don't care about a solution for the community, I just want my code to be chosen" ??? Aug 10 10:05:51 It also has support for the on-device client, which is also basically done. Aug 10 10:05:57 lbt: No Aug 10 10:06:09 OK... so why back to the evil design then? Aug 10 10:06:11 lbt: Just "I don't care". Aug 10 10:06:18 *nod* Aug 10 10:06:24 * lbt goes back to work Aug 10 10:06:25 l8r Aug 10 10:14:32 Jaffa, I cannot decide whether the descriptions you added to the getting started are helpful or not, the page looks very complex now Aug 10 10:15:36 Jaffa, when the irc client is completed, could you feature it in mwkn? Aug 10 10:19:56 lcuk: The descriptions I added to the getting started? Aug 10 10:20:00 lcuk: What descriptions I added? Aug 10 10:20:11 Venemo_N950: Sure, poke me with an announcement link or something Aug 10 10:20:47 lcuk: I agree the page looks complex, the stuff about getting packages for Harmattan should be on a different page, I think Aug 10 10:20:59 lcuk: This is "getting started with OBS", not "getting started with development" Aug 10 10:21:33 lcuk: See attempts at discussion here http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=28270#post28270 - someone else added the stuff which makes it bigger and complex Aug 10 10:26:59 Jaffa, understood, I just read through it again and it was longer and wordier than I recall Aug 10 10:28:18 I know most of it is needed and really a magic button (TM) should do it all! Aug 10 11:42:36 http://bash.org/?753599 :D Aug 10 12:15:06 oh Aug 10 12:15:25 did you hear that N9 will not be sold in north america? Aug 10 12:16:04 Nokia will dismiss all other models except Windows Phone from North Americas market... Aug 10 12:16:40 including S40, Symbian and MeeGo Aug 10 12:17:31 so nokia plan to expand their american market by only offering pricey Win Mobile phones? Aug 10 12:18:13 CosmoHill: yes :) Aug 10 12:18:29 http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/09/nokia-the-n9-isnt-coming-to-america/ Aug 10 12:19:21 so no cheap but decent phones that parents would buy the kids or a reasonably priced and featured phone for people who want a phone, not a MID Aug 10 12:19:58 and in Finnish news they told that "If windows phone doesn't succeed it doesn't matter what we do" Aug 10 12:21:02 way to concur a market Aug 10 12:21:35 Elop is doing everything he can to play MeeGo out Aug 10 12:22:37 on one hand you really want all your phones running one platform which makes application development easier since you have some system and binary for all phones Aug 10 12:22:51 if you have WinMob, MeeGo and Symbian you'll end up with Java Aug 10 12:23:10 and nobody wants that Aug 10 12:24:32 MeeGo would make Nokia phones stand out from the market, Like HTC stand out because of their HTC Sense UX Aug 10 12:32:25 True, but MeeGo has been left for "other players" Aug 10 12:33:47 waiting for those others in handset area Aug 10 12:34:45 what we kinda need is people like LG or HTC to release easily hackable phones for developers to play with Aug 10 12:39:51 I'm quite sure it's not enough Aug 10 12:40:21 what meego really needs is a handset manufacturer that releases a good meego handset Aug 10 12:40:28 someine else than nokia Aug 10 12:43:38 do you think Nokia would be pissed if someone else released a MeeGo phone in america and it did really well? Aug 10 12:48:00 CosmoHill, no, because windows phones are going to sell so great... Aug 10 12:48:05 ahaahhahahahaaa Aug 10 12:48:44 I wonder how many mac users use windows mobile Aug 10 12:49:00 actually consider also the x-box users Aug 10 12:49:02 all of them, leaving their iphones... Aug 10 12:49:10 all the zune users... Aug 10 12:49:30 CosmoHill, a proper meego product would not be a single device Aug 10 12:49:36 ok, i don't say anything else, i'm too angry Aug 10 12:49:41 I'd like a zune if it worked with mac and was avaiable outside of the US Aug 10 12:49:42 since meego is aimed towards multiple form factors etc Aug 10 12:49:50 the software should bring all those together Aug 10 12:50:10 lcuk: basically an MID with a car dock Aug 10 12:50:49 CosmoHill, you are still thinking of one device Aug 10 12:51:04 true Aug 10 12:51:10 if the incar system was connected with the handset was connected with the tablet Aug 10 12:51:41 and we had concurrent management systems to deal with them it would be awesome Aug 10 12:53:55 question: what would a meego game console be? is that the tv system? Aug 10 12:54:01 what games would it run? Aug 10 12:54:43 well for a start it couldn't play xbox or PS games Aug 10 12:55:04 it's a meego base with a 10' Gluon Player UX ;) Aug 10 12:55:18 it could in theory run any open source game with a controller Aug 10 12:56:33 leinir, heh Aug 10 12:56:44 well which games could be playable Aug 10 12:56:48 a TV should be powerful enough to run 2D games or simple 3D games where as a media server / centre box under the tv should be able to cope with higher demanding 3D games Aug 10 12:57:12 lcuk: i'm not entirely joking here, by the way... we /do/ want to make a gluon player for TVs... and the logical choice would be to target that sort of thing Aug 10 12:57:42 leinir, so how do you define inputs, what controllers are feasible etc Aug 10 12:57:52 what spedc hardware is required? Aug 10 12:58:22 CosmoHill, based on your estimates, 4d games should be playable on thee next gen hardware :P Aug 10 12:58:34 the xbox 360 controller is supported under windows mac and linux with mac being the only one that requires the installation of drivers Aug 10 12:58:51 assume you are not going to borrow other controllers Aug 10 12:59:22 imagine nintendo telling people to buy sony controllers Aug 10 12:59:38 lcuk: that's still not something we've really decided on - but for hardware, i'm personally thinking something like the trim slice as a base, and then an ssd or a harddrive for local game storage Aug 10 13:00:32 lcuk: do you want to assume that they already have a console? if so PS3 controllers will work with usb Aug 10 13:00:53 CosmoHill, I am thinking of a complete product Aug 10 13:01:15 OOTB you get set top box + controllers etc Aug 10 13:01:45 hmm, even so it might be an idea to support other controllers Aug 10 13:01:57 that way you mates can come over and bring theirs Aug 10 13:04:37 you okay there? Aug 10 13:05:25 nice Aug 10 13:05:27 seems I mention set top boxes and virgin media goes bonkers ;) Aug 10 13:05:29 I should say we have a delightful new tivo box here which arrived this morning ;) Aug 10 13:05:48 do you have the super home hub? Aug 10 13:06:07 not that I know of Aug 10 13:06:28 I've not heard good things about them / see my friend come and go on msn a lot Aug 10 13:06:35 i heard they are garbage too Aug 10 13:07:01 he says it works better if it's wired which kinda defeats it's purpose Aug 10 13:07:32 leinir, do you have a list of the current gluon games? Aug 10 13:08:36 ahh Aug 10 13:09:30 lcuk: Not really, no, we're working on the ability to simply show that on gamingfreedom.org :) Aug 10 13:09:44 it's a shame that with virgin media you can't just get a modem and use your own router...or that their internet / tech support sucks Aug 10 13:09:53 CosmoHill, you can Aug 10 13:10:26 hmm, I might tell my friend that, he might ask for his super home hub to be replaced Aug 10 13:24:05 i still didn't get boot from usb working with meego tablet ux installed on my device Aug 10 13:24:07 any hints? Aug 10 13:24:48 i have a different meego image burned on a stick and now want to boot the meego tablet running device from the stick Aug 10 13:27:13 janmalte_: exopc? Aug 10 13:29:39 people dont' seem to be having much luck with the exopc Aug 10 13:34:55 CosmoHill: especially me, I don't have one Aug 10 13:36:03 berndhs, we're probably better off. Aug 10 13:36:24 well, perhaps Aug 10 13:38:08 I mean, the viewing angle alone makes it rather unworkable. Aug 10 13:38:45 it would just be nice to have a tablet-size touch screen thingy for development Aug 10 13:39:38 berndhs, ideapad Aug 10 13:39:51 but more than the device, *what* would you develop for it Aug 10 13:40:39 me ? I would make my outdoor UI for it Aug 10 13:41:28 the device itself is probably not too useful for outdoor usage, but that's not really the point Aug 10 13:42:27 berndhs, so start making it without the device Aug 10 13:42:40 I started a while ago Aug 10 13:42:46 * lcuk recalls spending almost years building without specific large device Aug 10 13:42:58 it's a lot of work, but it has started Aug 10 13:43:22 most of the work doesn't depend on the device, sure Aug 10 13:47:43 It's no fun, though. Aug 10 13:48:48 true, the good part is actually using what you make Aug 10 13:49:04 CosmoHill: works OKish for me, installed WeTab, latest tablet 1.2.0.9 and ubuntu. Aug 10 14:33:01 dm8tbr: yes, its a WeTab Aug 10 14:44:36 janmalte_: I remember hearing that the upper usb port is preferred for booting, you still have to press the BBS button on the screen to get into the boot menu Aug 10 14:56:11 dm8tbr: BBS button? I get into the extlinux boot menu, but nothing appears before Aug 10 14:56:45 can't i configur extlinux to boot from the stick? Aug 10 14:56:45 janmalte_: um, there should be two rectangles in the top right corner during boot Aug 10 14:58:07 http://appdeveloper.intel.com/en-us/blog/2011/07/14/update-your-exopc-part-2-how-install-image Aug 10 14:58:15 someone took the image already :) Aug 10 14:59:14 this doesn't appear Aug 10 14:59:38 thats the problem. looks like meego has ereased the boot sektors where this have been placed Aug 10 15:00:16 janmalte_: that's bios Aug 10 15:01:10 ok, so this can't be deleted/modified by meego install process? Aug 10 15:01:17 correct Aug 10 15:01:32 do you get the EXOPC logo during boot? Aug 10 15:01:54 no, meego logo Aug 10 15:02:03 before that Aug 10 15:02:05 btw: its a wetab, so a wetab logo would appear Aug 10 15:02:08 no Aug 10 15:02:27 a real wetab? no idea if that has that Aug 10 15:02:42 on a real wetab there isn't anything that shows during BUIS Aug 10 15:02:47 s/BUIS/BIOS Aug 10 15:03:03 yes, its a real wetab Aug 10 15:03:19 janmalte_: http://wetab.mobi/developers/downloads-and-howtos/ Aug 10 15:03:35 3. Install new WeTab OS from USB stick Aug 10 15:03:40 so once you put meego on, you'll get the meego logo straight away, if it's wetab OS you'll get the wetab logo Aug 10 15:08:26 im trying, but didn't get it. so again the question, isn't there a way to configure syslinux/extlinux/ bootmanager to boot from usb stick? Aug 10 15:10:12 janmalte_, did you not manage by holding the power + quickstart button + f11? Aug 10 15:10:30 you'll need a usb keyboard Aug 10 15:10:33 i do so, but it doesn't change anything Aug 10 15:11:36 i'm confused mine worked like that... Aug 10 15:12:16 yes, its described like this on the wetab page and the meego page, but i get the syslinux boot prompt instalntly Aug 10 15:12:33 pressing the buttons doesn't change anything on this Aug 10 15:13:20 thats why i want to configure extlinux to boot from the usb stick Aug 10 15:17:15 janmalte_: there is something like a lock mechanism in wetab bios to prevent installing other os then wetab-os. Aug 10 15:18:08 are you sure? i have meego tablet ux already running on it Aug 10 15:18:26 janmalte_: I am sure Aug 10 15:19:29 janmalte_: but there is said to be a workaround, manipulating bootsector of usb stick. use google with that information Aug 10 15:38:09 * CosmoHill ponders a web developer job Aug 10 15:48:40 hey, i installed meego 1.2.0.90 on my exoPC, now the touch screen has stopped working. Aug 10 15:48:56 anyone have any ideas on why this might have happended? Aug 10 15:50:28 and does the mouse not work inside of an installed version of tablet edition/ Aug 10 15:51:17 gandijee_: which image did you install? I have an ExoPC with last week's (20110802 I think) pinetrail tablet image right next to me and the touchscreen works fine. Aug 10 15:51:44 And mouse input works fine, it's just that the cursor isn't drawn. You can comment out the -nocursor option in /etc/sysconfig/uxlaunch to see it again. Aug 10 15:52:13 i think its something wrong with this tablet in particular - after i installed meego 1.2.0.90 my TS totally stopped working - doesn't respond in BIOS either. Aug 10 15:53:25 Huh. That's new. Pretty sure the meego insaller doesn't flash the bios. :) Unfortunately there's no really good hard power cycle on those devices. You could try letting the battery drain all the way down I guess. Aug 10 15:53:55 =/ Aug 10 15:54:06 so i check the firmware on the TS against another exoPC i have Aug 10 15:54:12 and the firmware is the same too Aug 10 15:55:03 Check lsusb from a console. Is the device present? Aug 10 15:55:08 yea Aug 10 15:55:25 driver binds to it too, and i can use eUpgrade to check the firmware on the touchscreen Aug 10 16:16:14 what is the latest tablet image? seems like the last one didn't build successfull Aug 10 16:16:58 janmalte_: use one of the 1.2.0.x series Aug 10 16:20:41 ok, found one. are all updates comming to this image too? zypper ref && zypper up will get the latest changes? Aug 10 16:22:47 andyross: you know what firmware is on your touchscreen? Aug 10 16:23:13 I don't, nor do I have the WeTab tools handy to check. Aug 10 16:23:15 janmalte_: see the exopc page, at least for me it exploded Aug 10 16:23:33 http://wiki.meego.com/Devices/ExoPC Aug 10 16:23:50 janmalte_: but then again it was before 1.2 was released Aug 10 16:25:49 janmalte_: http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/1.2.0.90/1.2.0.90.12.20110809.2/images/meego-tablet-ia32-pinetrail/ is most current. I haven't run it yet, but last weeks is pretty good. Aug 10 16:26:19 The 1.2.80 series (pre-1.3) is still sort of a mess. Use the pre-1.2.1 stuff. Aug 10 16:36:29 ok, thanks Aug 10 16:49:41 andyross, the 1.3 stuff is where the bigger changes are happening anyway Aug 10 16:49:49 andyross, was it you near Manchester btw? Aug 10 16:53:55 X-Fade: ping Aug 10 16:55:25 javispedro: pong Aug 10 16:56:09 X-Fade: is it possible that in the COBS/Harmattan debian/rules is being invoked with make -jN where N > 1? Aug 10 16:56:30 javispedro: Yes. Aug 10 16:56:53 debian doesn't do this -- it breaks some packages Aug 10 16:57:22 e.g. configure target is run along the build target because they did not make build target depend on configure-stamp Aug 10 16:59:01 Hmm I wonder. I think it runs with jobs = 4. Aug 10 16:59:22 DawnFoster: Is there a chance for someone without an extraordinary idea to get an ExoPC from the device program (which lists 150 as available)? I don't have a tablet, but I'd like to test (more or less daily builds of) MeeGo Tablet UX (for general usability, bugs, etc), and enable the Broadcom Crystal HD ship for use in MeeGo (packaging the needed software). Any chance? Aug 10 17:00:11 I currently have two months with nothing to do, so that would probably be useful for everyone. Aug 10 17:00:28 juliank, nice spirit! Aug 10 17:01:18 juliank, \o/ hope you get one, nice aims Aug 10 17:01:33 juliank, libcrystalhd is allready packaged, but it could defaintely do with a cleanup + yamlifying :-) Aug 10 17:01:39 if you are located in berlin - you can visit the c-base Aug 10 17:02:34 lynxis: No, I'm in the middle of Germany, in Kassel. Aug 10 17:02:35 X-Fade: this log specifically mentions that "-jN was forced in submake" Aug 10 17:02:38 the c-base is one of the most awesome buildings in the whole of berlin Aug 10 17:02:52 X-Fade: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=gtk-fremantle&project=home%3AMartinK%3Agtk&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard Aug 10 17:04:22 javispedro: Will I see make -j3 too :) Aug 10 17:04:25 *well Aug 10 17:04:41 X-Fade: as you can also see the main symptom is that "build" starts alongside configure, which quickly fails as configure did not finish, gives an error, and then make patiently waits for configure to finish before actually giving up Aug 10 17:05:28 it can be fixed by rearraging the debian/rules targets so that it works on parallel make, but the fact that I had to do that on several squeeze packages makes me believe Debian doesn't do it. Aug 10 17:05:33 I guess MAKE env var gets set. Aug 10 17:06:03 But I wonder why parallel make is an issue anyway. Aug 10 17:06:18 Don't you want that? Configure should be a separate step anyway? Aug 10 17:07:06 the issue is that on debian/rules usually this appears: Aug 10 17:07:19 hm.. too long for irc, will pastebin. Aug 10 17:16:32 X-Fade: this is a snipper of debian/rules as it comes from SDL_ttf packaging Aug 10 17:17:20 note that I'm showing thsi one because it is quite simple, but it happens to other packages (Gtk+ for example) Aug 10 17:18:11 it seems legit, but when invoked under parallel make, binary rule triggers binary-arch rule, which triggers build rule, which triggers configure-stamp and build-stamp rules Aug 10 17:18:15 _at the same time_ Aug 10 17:18:40 therefore, it forks ./configure and $(MAKE) at the same time Aug 10 17:19:09 X-Fade: I have a collection of 3 GTK+ packages that all fail due to this (from Fremantle, Lenny and Ubuntu Hardy) Aug 10 17:19:09 obviously, what happens after this is "undefined behaviour". Aug 10 17:19:38 Yeah, so we need to check why that happens. Aug 10 17:20:11 javispedro: Does it happen when you use the Debian target for openSUSE? Aug 10 17:20:54 \o thanks X-Fade Aug 10 17:20:57 I need to setup a new package for that :) Aug 10 17:21:52 X-Fade: is the target listed on the add repository page ? Aug 10 17:22:16 I can try to build the problematic GTK+ packages with it Aug 10 17:22:41 M4rtinK2: yes, on your project page just hit Repositories, then add Aug 10 17:22:43 M4rtinK2: Use OpenSUSE: for that, we just link to their OBS. Aug 10 17:22:47 oh. Aug 10 17:22:58 which version ? 11.4 ? Aug 10 17:22:59 In advanced. Aug 10 17:23:21 M4rtinK2: No, wait. Let me check. You can select debian 6 for instance. Aug 10 17:26:08 Ah, lbt made a nice page for that. So just select Debian 6 :) Aug 10 17:27:26 X-Fade: which archs ? only arm7el ? Aug 10 17:27:47 M4rtinK2: Doesn't really matter. i586 is probably faster. Aug 10 17:28:12 hmm, looks like it doesn't have armv7el anyway Aug 10 17:29:27 "building" Aug 10 17:29:55 also :) Aug 10 17:31:17 Ok, so that worked. Aug 10 17:31:22 nope Aug 10 17:31:31 a moment, I think it's going to fail (from live build log) Aug 10 17:31:38 for M4rtinK2 it did :) Aug 10 17:31:49 oh =) Aug 10 17:31:52 well, not yet Aug 10 17:31:56 that is what the-boss tells me at least :) Aug 10 17:32:06 I mean it started to build on the Debian 6 target Aug 10 17:32:17 still building various dependencies Aug 10 17:32:24 ah.. Aug 10 17:32:35 SDL_ttf failed already. Aug 10 17:32:42 same problem Aug 10 17:32:45 https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=i586&package=testsdl_ttf&project=home%3Ajavispedro&repository=Debian_6.0 Aug 10 17:33:21 heh. Aug 10 17:33:36 I'm waiting for atk1.0 to build, then it can start on the problematic GTK+ packages Aug 10 17:33:45 Should have Googled first, seems that this was discussed in April on the OBS list. Aug 10 17:34:05 quite a heated discussion btw... Aug 10 17:34:09 " Aug 10 17:34:09 It's fundamentally wrong imo to provide a service for Aug 10 17:34:09 Debian packages and not accept the Debian way and the Aug 10 17:34:09 Debian policy" Aug 10 17:34:16 http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-buildservice/2011-04/msg00180.html Aug 10 17:34:42 bullshit... Aug 10 17:35:56 RST38h: if the policy says: "this is not run in parallel" (the rules file) and they do either way, well... I side with the Debianites here, this causes breakage. Aug 10 17:36:22 ah you mean on technical grounds...yes Aug 10 17:37:55 I wonder if I can force it in the project config. Aug 10 17:38:08 first GTK+ package failed Aug 10 17:38:24 second GTK+ package failed :) Aug 10 17:38:53 javispedro: useful link ... could explain the kdelibs thing too Aug 10 17:39:23 https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=i586&package=gtk-hardy&project=home%3AMartinK%3Agtk&repository=Debian_6.0 Aug 10 17:39:26 lbt: Do you think we can fix this by adding a macro to the prjconf? Aug 10 17:39:37 https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=i586&package=gtk-lenny&project=home%3AMartinK%3Agtk&repository=Debian_6.0 Aug 10 17:39:48 lbt: MeeGo has this: %_smp_mflags -j4 Aug 10 17:39:54 lbt: have logs? after a few packages that have failed this way I'm starting to become able to recognize that one pattern :) Aug 10 17:39:56 mmm Aug 10 17:40:55 either way, so far the strategy I've been following is to fix the rules file. In simpler packages this is simple enough. Aug 10 17:41:13 However, after seeing the gtk+ debian/rules I think this approach quickly becomes unmanagable. Aug 10 17:41:21 I'm trying to see if setting that macro helps. Aug 10 17:41:23 I feel that we should be able to provide something that supplements it ... Aug 10 17:42:47 what about just a "disable parallel build for this package" checkbox on the web interface + pointer to it from the wiki debugging section ? Aug 10 17:43:13 M4rtinK2: That is not a trivial thing. But .... patches welcome :D Aug 10 17:44:45 or just some flag somewhere in the package config, then :) Aug 10 17:45:42 for the record, the final GTK+ package also failed with the rules error Aug 10 17:46:06 * javispedro has already grabbed popcorn while reading that ML thread Aug 10 17:46:14 javispedro: Your SDL succeeded now? Aug 10 17:47:00 X-Fade: no, did you change anything? no rebuilt was seemingly triggered Aug 10 17:47:17 *rebuild Aug 10 17:47:29 javispedro: https://build.pub.meego.com/project/monitor?arch_armv7el=1&defaults=0&project=home%3Ajavispedro%3ASDL&repo_harmattan=1&succeeded=1 Aug 10 17:47:44 https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=testsdl_ttf&project=home%3Ajavispedro Aug 10 17:47:47 sorry for the confusion Aug 10 17:48:06