**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 18 02:59:56 2011 Aug 18 03:52:49 Anyone know if we in US are able to pre-order the N9? I'm starting to really want one. Aug 18 03:53:23 not from Nokia Aug 18 03:53:31 and i haven't seen it on amazon Aug 18 03:53:41 the n9 is a fucking unicorn Aug 18 03:55:13 Alison_Chaiken: you're going to have to find it unlocked from a third-party retailer. No official Nokia distribution channels for the N9 in the US Aug 18 03:55:32 Alison_Chaiken: possibly import it even :/ Aug 18 03:56:26 heh, the one listing got pulled Aug 18 03:56:45 thanks, now i'm more pissed. Aug 18 03:56:48 yeah, we in the US will have to bend over backwards to get it Aug 18 03:56:59 unless quim et. al. could provide us with a legitimate route to getting one Aug 18 03:57:22 other than via the loan program Aug 18 03:57:24 the reason I am mad, is because I've been given a handset to make apps that nobody will ever be able to use. Aug 18 03:58:07 which is why, IMO, targetting Harmattan is silly Aug 18 03:58:25 it makes me cry Aug 18 03:58:26 I'd rather burn off harmattan and replace it with pure MeeGo, once that project gets underway Aug 18 03:58:32 because the phone is so fucking good Aug 18 03:58:48 well, the APIs are the same Aug 18 03:58:53 not totally Aug 18 03:58:59 IT IS ENOUGH FOR ME. Aug 18 03:59:02 but whatever Aug 18 03:59:04 heh Aug 18 03:59:13 i haven't seen another MeeGo phone Aug 18 03:59:18 nor any indication there will be others Aug 18 03:59:21 and no Aug 18 03:59:27 trade show appearances at Comptex or other shows do not count Aug 18 03:59:31 as we all well know Aug 18 03:59:32 of course not Aug 18 03:59:38 they vanish into the ether Aug 18 04:00:20 i will feel better if i see even one more phone Aug 18 04:00:30 with a somewhat proactive push in marketing Aug 18 04:00:42 because I don't mind #ifdeffing my code Aug 18 04:00:48 and qml is dead easy to put together Aug 18 04:02:02 or hey Aug 18 04:02:06 an actual tablet Aug 18 04:03:04 an in-car unit running IVI maybe??? Aug 18 04:03:56 a toaster? a furby? Aug 18 04:04:04 :P Aug 18 04:05:53 i mean it, i feel like an Amiga user... Aug 18 04:05:59 or a Mac user, circa 1989. Aug 18 04:06:04 :P Aug 18 04:06:34 IVI i think is actually likely Aug 18 04:06:53 tablet's are already out Aug 18 04:07:10 meehhhh Aug 18 04:07:20 basically, it's WeTab Aug 18 04:07:23 and.. Aug 18 04:07:25 ... Aug 18 04:07:27 WeTab Aug 18 04:07:42 unfortunately early MeeGo.com UX is not wowing most people Aug 18 04:07:50 TabCo was underwhelming :p Aug 18 04:09:15 Nokia's Swipe UI is quite fantastic Aug 18 04:09:21 it's really sad. Aug 18 04:11:27 My plan is to pay to import an N9 and then hopefully put Handset DE on it. The question is *how* to import it. I've already asked the wise qgil for advice. Aug 18 04:12:18 TSCHAKeee, I've been concentrating my own efforts on MeeGo-IVI, because that's where MeeGo has a chance. Aug 18 04:13:09 well, since I am already doing our LinuxMCE R&D, and the N950 was given to me based on that... Aug 18 04:13:21 I went to a talk last week about Smart Grid. Smart Meters, medical devices, fitness equipment, toys . . . anywhere Qt is appropriate and Android has no inherent advantage. Aug 18 04:13:22 I will do that work...too bad nobody will ever see it. Aug 18 04:13:31 *nod* Aug 18 04:13:41 I want to do IVI work too, LinuxMCE would be great in the car. Aug 18 04:13:55 but it's difficult getting IVI reference hardware. Aug 18 04:14:07 and due to the nature of my work, I can't do it all on simulators. Aug 18 04:14:18 I concur: for backseat LinuxMCE is great. That's why I worked with Panda with multiple display outputs. Aug 18 04:14:34 indeed, but not just for backseat Aug 18 04:14:45 there are wonderful integration possibilities Aug 18 04:14:51 but yeah :) Aug 18 04:15:01 TSCHAKeee, are you on meego-ivi mailing list to read frequent, interminable reference hardware discussions, often started by me? Including today? Aug 18 04:15:20 no, that's ONE list i am not on... Aug 18 04:15:24 i will join. Aug 18 04:15:32 MCE = Media Center? Aug 18 04:15:44 flailingmonkey: yes, we changed the name from Pluto HOme Aug 18 04:15:49 flailingmonkey: but it is much more than that Aug 18 04:15:51 nifty' Aug 18 04:16:06 it is, to my knowledge, the most advanced smart home platform available. Aug 18 04:16:12 Have a look at the archives and see if recent topics interest you. meego-ivi is a useful mailing list: reason volume, high technical level, few flames, on-topic. Aug 18 04:16:20 what is your approach for codecs, and do you use any of those hardware video decoder chips Aug 18 04:16:23 (it's not new... we've been working on it for almost a decade) Aug 18 04:16:30 aha, smart home! Aug 18 04:16:46 TSCHAKeee, smart meter with MCE would be ultracool too. Do you know about Pachube? Aug 18 04:16:49 flailingmonkey: abstracted to message bus end points, basically... Aug 18 04:17:01 ahh Aug 18 04:17:02 Alison_Chaiken: no, I haven't seen it. Aug 18 04:17:24 http://itc.conversationsnetwork.org/shows/detail4936.html Completely awesome distributed sensor platform. Aug 18 04:18:31 Also check out mp3car.com, home of meego-ivi thought-leader Nasa. Nasa is kind of the Stskeeps of IVI ;-). Aug 18 04:18:53 flailingmonkey: we have a device tree, with end points of programs, that talk on our message bus that we call DCE... and in a given entertainment area, the media player is just another device we send commands to... our Orbiter software, in addition to running on touch screens, tablets, phones, PDAs, etc... also runs as an on-TV display with window management built in... Aug 18 04:19:22 so in the end we don't care.. we have DCE players for Xine, (which is installed by default), but also for mplayer, and Videolan... Aug 18 04:19:34 Time for dinner, then more struggle with EMGD and libGLES. Aug 18 04:19:35 one for gstreamer could be made as well Aug 18 04:19:47 i've mostly been trying to make the most out of the EXOPC tablet Intel loaned me as a software development platform Aug 18 04:19:50 EMGD makes me want to mainline heroin. Aug 18 04:20:01 just to numb the pain Aug 18 04:20:18 since it has a broadcom hardware video decoder, that's one piece i'm trying to get working and integrated in video playing apps Aug 18 04:20:33 even after two years of dealing with it.. Intel EMGD STILL Does not have working VA-API Aug 18 04:35:51 morn Aug 18 04:42:46 Alison_Chaiken: at least meego-ivi@ seems to be getting the passionate posting the rest of project is missing atm :P Aug 18 04:51:12 i don't know what the other offerings for IVI look like Aug 18 04:51:29 i don't see android being their cup of tea Aug 18 04:54:08 i'm not convinced meego's that either, it needs more slimming down and more importantly, active and open process Aug 18 04:55:25 Stskeeps: indeed Aug 18 04:55:55 and ubuntu isn't it either, too stuck in the desktop-server world Aug 18 05:07:58 morn smoku Aug 18 05:10:09 hi Stskeeps Aug 18 05:16:39 IVI needs a strong security model. I am eager to hear what Ryan Ware says at LinuxCon on Friday! Bummer that session won't be livestreamed: https://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/linuxcon/schedule Aug 18 05:17:23 i'm starting to think that ryan might be on to something with his approach actually, in the brave new world of qml and html5 apps Aug 18 05:17:29 Notice also that BMW is presenting about ConnMan! And Rudi Streif will discuss IVI. Aug 18 05:17:57 Alison_Chaiken: BTW, i have a OBS that's slowly but firmly generating softfp meego builds (non-compliant, marked as EXPERIMENTALBUILDS), but useful for R&D Aug 18 05:21:29 Thanks for the update, Stskeeps. While I continue to mess with Panda, my new paying (we hope) gig is on Atom. Aug 18 05:21:33 :nod: Aug 18 05:21:49 good thing about meego is that for most stuff, the underlying architecture doesn't really matter :) Aug 18 05:21:53 As long as I can continue with MeeGo, it's good! Aug 18 05:22:13 * Stskeeps has a couple of atom devices too Aug 18 05:22:15 Concur, although those details sure can occupy a lot of time! Aug 18 05:23:19 indeed Aug 18 05:24:20 Stskeeps: if you need help with that, we'll be discussing with TUT if they can donate some idle power AND if you want to host OBS output I'm sure space on either forMeeGo host can be arranged Aug 18 05:25:08 as currently there is my original forMeeGo machine and I guess the new hardware in the helsinki colo should be arriving/arrived Aug 18 05:25:56 :nod: Aug 18 05:26:13 dm8tbr: i could definately be interested in additional workers, but let's see how well my setup scales Aug 18 05:26:22 doing 6 workers on ramdisk atm Aug 18 05:26:47 *nod* Aug 18 05:28:00 it's actually a little more difficult to do an accurate build than i anticipated, there's packages in MeeGo:1.2.0:oss that contains links to Trunk/MeeGo:1.2:oss and some that's unable to be checked out Aug 18 05:28:30 (due to a OBS bug) Aug 18 05:32:55 interesting Aug 18 05:33:10 you can actually extract OBS history over wire Aug 18 05:33:58 arfoll: i have good news and not-so-bad news Aug 18 05:46:32 flailingmonkey, lets hear it ;-) Aug 18 05:46:47 i now know what the whole GPIO mess is about Aug 18 05:47:01 you can actually extract OBS history over wire -> curl http://api.meego.com/public/source/Trunk/acl/_history Aug 18 05:47:04 and after lots of attempts, still can't get access to the pin they want through GPIO SYSFS Aug 18 05:47:16 that's the not-so-bad news Aug 18 05:47:18 the good news is that Aug 18 05:47:57 the ch7306_monitor also has the alternative code path for HDMI detection without GPIO pin Aug 18 05:48:06 so it runs without the pin. Aug 18 05:48:10 oh that is cool Aug 18 05:48:22 but i still do not have a mini-HDMI cable... should arrive saturday Aug 18 05:48:35 you have the code in OBS allready? Aug 18 05:48:48 nooope Aug 18 05:49:18 it was only after banging my head against the GPIO stuff that I went through whole git history for the chrontel code Aug 18 05:50:09 so I have the commands working, but I need to write some sort of scripts for meego use Aug 18 05:50:22 so why do they bother with the detection with GPIO pin? You think it's just more reliable? Aug 18 05:50:44 http://git.chromium.org/gitweb/?p=chromiumos/third_party/chrontel.git;a=commit;h=3094a1120eed5a51d684525b15af7f7ac7525d1c Aug 18 05:51:14 they are using the GPIO pin of the NM10 Tiger Point chipset, instead of the Chrontel chip Aug 18 05:52:32 cool, well nice find ;-) Aug 18 05:52:49 the major problem is that there is no upstream driver that provides access to those GPIO pins. but just using the Chrontel chip for detection will work, meaning no need to package a kernel driver :) Aug 18 05:53:11 yeah, and this is detecting HDMI the same way that WeTab code does, and since WeTab stuff works, this will work too Aug 18 05:53:22 I will try to get this into a shape you can test now Aug 18 05:54:05 k cool, I can try out this afternoon/evening Aug 18 06:59:14 arfoll: i'm looking over your chrontel packaging for hints on how to make my own. I can already tell that WeTab approach was very crude. for chromiumos approach, i2c device is just a command argument, no need to patch source :) Aug 18 07:02:22 flailingmonkey, wetab where a little dirty they removed basically all cli args Aug 18 07:02:34 arfoll: ouch Aug 18 07:09:41 arfoll: i think your udev rule will work for me too Aug 18 07:17:01 flailingmonkey, maybe renaming it to /dev/i2c-chrontel may not be so bad /dev/hdmi might cause trouble Aug 18 07:18:00 arfoll: could be, i'm still scratching my head at packaging lol Aug 18 07:18:42 * flailingmonkey opens http://wiki.meego.com/Packaging first thing it says is "This page needs re-writing" Aug 18 07:19:55 learn spectacle and you're hapy Aug 18 07:19:56 happy Aug 18 07:20:44 flailingmonkey, how do you build? make then make install? Aug 18 07:21:19 arfoll: just make right now, the chromiumos people didn't have an install make target. apparently they use ebuild or something Aug 18 07:22:05 arfoll: but all it needs to do it cp firmware file, ch7036_monitor and any scripts for running the daemon Aug 18 07:22:11 flailingmonkey, then take my yaml file, and just change qmake in the spec file to make, and then adapt the install lines and the file list Aug 18 07:22:29 quick and dirty, good times ;) Aug 18 07:23:22 well it's the only way to do it if you don't have make isntall, spectacle expects make install if you use builder make Aug 18 07:25:59 i could write a make install target Aug 18 07:26:14 also this code comes from a git repo, there isn't technically a source tarball Aug 18 07:26:33 should I make a tarball of the source anyway i wonder Aug 18 07:37:35 when a package uses library headers from -devel packages to build, does it require those packages non -devel versions to be installed to run? Aug 18 07:38:06 it depends on if it takes symbols too Aug 18 07:38:33 looking at the spec file here it doesn't seem to Aug 18 07:38:48 well, the log is what matters Aug 18 07:38:53 the resulting Requires: Aug 18 07:39:20 the binary needs libXrandr, libX11 libXext and alsa-lib headers to build Aug 18 07:39:30 but only Requires alsa-utils Aug 18 07:40:13 flailingmonkey: It needs the non-devel packages because they will provide the shared objects/libraries needed at run time Aug 18 07:40:23 flailingmonkey, you should make a tarball from git, its easy with git archive Aug 18 07:40:28 the -devel packages contain the headers you need to develop with those libraries Aug 18 07:40:44 so you still need the non -devel packages to run them Aug 18 07:41:17 flailingmonkey: rpmbuild *should* figure out the binary dependencies by itself, and add the required packages/features to the generated package automatically - only if you require something that doesn't have symbols in the created binaries (such as loadable plugins) should you need to manually add Requires: foo lines Aug 18 07:41:20 yeah, which is why i was confused that they weren't listed under Required. probably works just because they are already installed on MeeGo tablet Aug 18 07:41:41 well check what asla-utils requires Aug 18 07:42:02 somewhere in the chain they'll be something that requires libX11.. Aug 18 07:42:09 Bostik: this would be assuming I was using rpmbuild, instead of hackishly tweaking someone elses .spec and .yaml files :p Aug 18 07:42:57 flailingmonkey, the yaml file should have everything you need, just remove the qt dep Aug 18 07:43:10 and you can use rpmbuild with the generated spec file, that should work fine Aug 18 07:43:26 although osc build is probably better Aug 18 07:45:03 well that's my real target Aug 18 07:50:56 btw, fluendo proprietary codecs compiled for lpia processor features uses very little CPU for video decoding Aug 18 07:51:47 * flailingmonkey felt a little dirty paying for codecs, but they will make a good data point for testing against open source options Aug 18 08:01:31 flailingmonkey, yes most of them use intel's IPP library, they're actually quite good Aug 18 08:02:13 although ffmpeg's implementations can sometimes be faster simply because they aren't compliant ;-) Aug 18 08:02:31 even without the crystalhd, cpu use was pretty much always below 30% Aug 18 08:02:47 still, HD will benefit from hardware Aug 18 08:03:35 and i don't think flash uses gstreamer at all, so only way to accelerate streaming flash video is getting good crystalhd support Aug 18 08:04:27 flailingmonkey, crystalhd should enable 720p, with fluendo codecs I couldn't get 720p to run Aug 18 08:04:34 not in h264 anyways Aug 18 08:04:39 yea Aug 18 08:04:51 morning \o Aug 18 08:05:11 i managed to mess up the meego-apps-video somehow, it would segfault on playing even the included .ogv file Aug 18 08:05:34 even after I removed and uninstalled all the codecs i had put in... i ended up reinstalling Aug 18 08:05:54 fluendo codecs shouldn't affect ogv decoding. You have the codec bundle no? Aug 18 08:06:11 mind you i'm not too sure what ships in the codec bundle... Aug 18 08:06:14 yeah, it wasn't from them, but I have no idea what happened Aug 18 08:06:30 the codec bundle is just a zip of gstreamer plugin files Aug 18 08:06:44 you copy them into your /usr/lib/gstreamer/ Aug 18 08:06:48 very simple Aug 18 08:07:07 ja, i know (i was working for fluendo until may), i'm just not sure which codecs are included Aug 18 08:07:12 ohh Aug 18 08:07:15 it seemed like most Aug 18 08:07:41 i think you don't get an unblocked AC3 codec, so it only works with totem Aug 18 08:09:07 unblocked AC3 would do what? Aug 18 08:09:23 let you play ac3 everywhere. unfortunatly dolby license forbids it Aug 18 08:10:05 would that have been signified by "Dobly Digital"? Aug 18 08:10:15 because that is in there Aug 18 08:10:57 try use it in a gstreamer pipeline Aug 18 08:11:21 /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstflueac3dec.so Aug 18 08:11:29 looks like it Aug 18 08:11:49 yeah thats the one, if you do gst-inspect on it it'll say IPP build protected or something Aug 18 08:12:48 yup "IPP build with Player protection) Aug 18 08:14:12 but thats the only one, it only works in totem. also they don't have a DTS decoder so i build the one with libdca on pub obs :-)\ Aug 18 08:15:08 nice move :) Aug 18 08:15:36 i don't really know how meego-apps-videos does its video decoding Aug 18 08:18:27 flailingmonkey, they use qtmultimedia, so i guess thats just a playbin2 abstraction on meego/linux Aug 18 08:19:27 arfoll: it didn't seem to use any of the fluendo codecs, which worked fine when using gst-launch playbin2 Aug 18 08:24:19 weird, maybe qtmultimedia does something else then. have you tried the latest meego-app-video from trunk? Aug 18 08:24:33 i think it can also use libva Aug 18 08:25:11 Stskeeps, well no libva on pinetrail, but qtmultimedia would be able to use libva without a gstreamer codec? Aug 18 08:25:26 i think there's a patch in qt mobility or something at least Aug 18 08:26:00 cool, although having a FOSS gst plugin would be nicer... Aug 18 08:32:59 i was using latest from MeeGo 1.2, but not 1.2 testing Aug 18 09:41:23 Stskeeps, based on the meeting this morning I gather 1.3 focus is getting together Aug 18 09:47:00 good morning, im trying to pack a .deb for an arm architecture, but i get the error: dpkg-shlibdeps: failure: no dependency information found for mylib.so - how would i generate that information? i have the .so in place but that doesnt seem to be enough. the target is an n900 smartphone, so the package is crosscompiled using the qtsdk Aug 18 09:48:33 x29a_: that's a question for #maemo Aug 18 09:48:43 n900 and maemo uses .deb, not meego :) Aug 18 09:49:24 Stskeeps: done that, sorry for the nosie Aug 18 09:49:27 noise even Aug 18 09:50:34 maybe #harmattan? Aug 18 09:50:52 No, #maemo .. Aug 18 09:50:55 kk Aug 18 09:51:48 Stskeeps: what package system meego uses? Aug 18 09:51:52 rpm Aug 18 09:52:42 I though it uses deb. Now many things are clear, thanks... :) Aug 18 09:52:55 s/though/thought Aug 18 09:54:20 meego harmattan uses deb but thats just a nokia branch. main line meego still uses rpm Aug 18 10:18:23 which is rather sad :P Aug 18 11:10:36 pebcak: why? Aug 18 11:12:40 what the difference is between meego handset and meego tablet for n900? im going to download an image to install on my device, but i don't know the differences between them Aug 18 11:12:49 handset works Aug 18 11:13:36 good, but the difference is between them? both of them are designed for n900 Aug 18 11:16:42 TimmyT: nobody is asleep Aug 18 11:16:56 :-p Aug 18 11:17:15 TimmyT, different window manager and paradigm Aug 18 11:18:04 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MeeGo#User_interfaces Aug 18 11:20:39 ok, im going to install it on eMMC. here: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/EMMC i see it says place the kernel i want to use into the de-installer directory, i've downloaded a kernel from that repository i've download the image, but i see there is a vmlinuz already in de-installer directory Aug 18 11:21:04 which of these kernels i have to use? Aug 18 11:23:51 the one you want to use Aug 18 11:28:56 flashing failed, it says: flashing initramfs image Aug 18 11:28:57 flasher v2.5.2 (Oct 21 2009) Aug 18 11:28:57 vmlinuz-n900: No such file or directory Aug 18 11:28:57 flashing done Aug 18 11:29:34 it was the command i used: ./de-installer/n900-de-emmc-installer.sh -i ./de-installer/mg-handset-armv7nhl-n900-ce-stable-1.2.0.90.6.20110630.4.DE.2011-07-01.1-mmcblk0p.raw.bz2 -f -k ./de-installer/mg-handset-armv7nhl-n900-ce-stable-1.2.0.90.6.20110630.4.DE.2011-07-01.1-vmlinuz-2.6.37-24.2.de-adaptation-n900 Aug 18 11:29:53 * DocScrutinizer slaps x29a with http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#id479916 Aug 18 11:30:51 im sorry, i didnt intend to offend anybody Aug 18 11:32:23 DocScrutinizer: doesn't matter, it's ok with me Aug 18 11:53:40 lbt / X-Fade: build.pub: "Server returned an error: HTTP Error 400: Bad Request remote error: syswrite No space left on device" :-| Aug 18 11:53:48 eek Aug 18 11:53:54 link ? Aug 18 11:54:12 when trying to do a local osc build... Aug 18 11:54:25 X-Fade: ping Aug 18 11:54:31 but I think also build jobs are stuck / hanging Aug 18 11:54:53 shit ... that was using like 60% yesterday ... Aug 18 11:55:55 wasn't me, my 4.7 gb worth of meego sources are on my own machine Aug 18 11:55:56 :P Aug 18 11:56:30 * Beineri feels innocent too *whistle* Aug 18 11:59:37 * Sage wonders what the prjlink did actually :) Aug 18 12:00:16 opened up a vortex in time and space Aug 18 12:00:40 we're transferring meego sources back to 1997 in order to restore history to how it should look like. Aug 18 12:01:03 this is the output of my terminal here http://pastebin.com/ndphvVVX, after pressing the enter key on the keyboard, i can't turn the phone on. also it does nothin anymore and a something is on the display of the phone that says: starting netcat for initial connection chech, but does nothin Aug 18 12:02:58 if i write something on my phone and press enter it will be shown on the terminal windows in my pc Aug 18 12:18:14 hmmmm, nobody here who knows the answer of my problem? Aug 18 12:19:01 morning Aug 18 12:19:21 bored_flasher: if you'd stop changing your nicknames every 5s that would certainly help *sheesh* Aug 18 12:20:24 TimmyT: why are you trying to install to emmc anyway? Aug 18 12:20:32 the preferred way is to install to micro-sd Aug 18 12:20:58 there is rumor that it works faster Aug 18 12:21:09 not really Aug 18 12:21:16 get a microsd card, class 6 or 1 Aug 18 12:21:16 0 Aug 18 12:21:18 10 Aug 18 12:21:30 a class6 or class10 should be faster than emmc Aug 18 12:21:35 but why the need for microsd still? Aug 18 12:21:46 Venemo_N950: it's simply what we test with so Aug 18 12:22:12 and with constant flashing people actually do kill their micro-sd cards Aug 18 12:22:36 you don't want that to happen to your emmc Aug 18 12:22:55 I was hoping that by this time, a one-click installer would be developed that could demolish Maemo and install MeeGo onto the N900 Aug 18 12:23:23 the installer script seems to be that sort of thing Aug 18 12:24:56 ok, im going to buy one, right now i've a class 4 Aug 18 12:28:26 very nice & funny: http://twitpic.com/5siddh/full Aug 18 12:30:53 does nokia have plan for selling N9 with Windows phone? Aug 18 12:31:00 ask nokia Aug 18 12:31:50 Stskeeps: dunnu, Venemo sent somethin which shows n9 with WP Aug 18 12:42:08 X-Fade, is the repository publishing process on cobs fine? Aug 18 12:42:46 smoku: not atm, we just had to restart the backend because it ran out of space. Aug 18 12:43:37 * Beineri thinks builds/workers are also not working correctly... builds not ending (or restarting?) Aug 18 12:43:45 I will never understand why you chose OBS against Koji Aug 18 12:43:57 apparently OBS isn't up to the task at all. Aug 18 12:44:12 It filled up the archive space. Just too many people submitting packages. Aug 18 12:44:19 Added another 500G Aug 18 12:44:23 heh Aug 18 12:46:36 pick an alternative system that's really inconvenient, people won't submit soo many packages :) Aug 18 12:48:06 X-Fade, i will wait then. Aug 18 12:48:37 smoku: Yeah, should be fixed soonish. Aug 18 12:48:42 X-Fade, is the 'fremantle' repository working? I cannot configure my project to build against it Aug 18 12:49:05 smoku: No, that is an old test I did a year ago or so. Aug 18 12:49:10 smoku: Needs some love. Aug 18 12:49:47 X-Fade, it would be nice if I could build my packages both for harmattan and fremantle Aug 18 12:49:50 and meego Aug 18 12:50:08 smoku: I agree, but there are only so many hours in a day :) Aug 18 12:52:08 X-Fade, right. same here :) Aug 18 13:44:02 hmm, reading the N900CE "key features", internet over 3G / cellular seems to be lacking? Aug 18 13:48:08 lupine_85: but, do you know any 3G carrier providing real internet ? ;) Aug 18 13:48:12 lupine_85: works fine Aug 18 13:48:35 awesome :) Aug 18 13:48:38 and yes, AAISP Aug 18 13:50:37 lupine_85: no proxy, no services restrictions, no service downgrade after some Mb used ? Aug 18 13:50:47 nice, I want that in france ;) Aug 18 13:51:13 correct, correct and correct Aug 18 13:51:33 I don't think they have native IPv6 *quite* yet, but they're working on it, and they'll give you an L2TP tunnel if you need it in the meantime Aug 18 13:51:49 woaw Aug 18 13:52:08 (say, if you're using a 3G sim as backup internet connectivity for a whole site and you want the IP routes to flip over when the ADSL goes down) Aug 18 13:52:13 every terminal has it's own IP(v4) ? Aug 18 13:52:19 No NAT ? Aug 18 13:53:01 well, yes Aug 18 13:53:12 that's great Aug 18 13:53:13 how else would you do internet? Aug 18 13:53:20 tell them to come and operate in france ;) Aug 18 13:53:29 chouchoune, french telcos are a rip off Aug 18 13:54:11 arfoll: yes, I know Aug 18 13:54:45 it's depressing that basic standards of connectivity are now considered to be a holy grail, rather than a minimum requirement for purchasing Aug 18 13:54:45 even prepaid/pay as you go is real expensive in france Aug 18 13:54:58 why give them money if their service isn't up to par ? Aug 18 13:55:05 *Shrug* Aug 18 13:55:47 yep Aug 18 13:56:12 well they're still cheaper than roaming Aug 18 13:56:27 but there are some associative providers setting great things up Aug 18 13:56:30 (the answer, of course, is because people are cheapskates. I give - or rather, work gives - A&A £35/month for the ADSL I get from A&A. When I told the talktalk salesman, his pretty head almost exploded) Aug 18 13:57:34 mind you premium adsl isn't always better, i had demon bussiness, and they failed to send me a bill (so obv. i never paid) then sent me debt collectors for 70 quid Aug 18 13:57:41 instead of calling me up Aug 18 13:57:56 there is indeed a difference between premium and competent Aug 18 13:58:17 demon used to be really good :/ Aug 18 13:58:37 yeah, since they got bought by thus, they are crap Aug 18 13:59:17 they had real good offers though on 1:20 contention ratios Aug 18 13:59:34 BTw have stopped guaranteeing those contention ratios now Aug 18 13:59:57 the only thing you really get out of their 'business' grade ADSL circuits nowadays is the improved upstream Aug 18 14:00:26 BTw stuff always seemed way to expensive for what it was Aug 18 14:00:31 aye. A&A backhaul through Be wherever they can Aug 18 14:01:04 my plan is to go BE on their 3 month contrats next month Aug 18 14:12:07 lbt, I have made the prototype connection between my wall unit and device Aug 18 14:12:39 tracy can now update me with things whilst out and about shopping and stuff Aug 18 14:21:01 @seen quim Aug 18 14:21:06 ~seen quim Aug 18 14:21:07 i haven't seen 'quim', cityLights Aug 18 14:23:48 where is qgil.... Aug 18 14:23:58 here Aug 18 14:24:07 oh , hellow mate Aug 18 14:24:22 I pm you in the meego,did you get it? Aug 18 14:24:47 er... Aug 18 14:24:51 I am using the N900 for a long time and published a small program Aug 18 14:25:03 also wrote some toturials Aug 18 14:25:23 I was late by a few hours in apllying for the n9 dev kit Aug 18 14:25:30 , got no answer to my email Aug 18 14:25:51 cityLights: sorry, with so many channels open it is easy to miss something Aug 18 14:26:19 this is why I was waiting then decided to try here Aug 18 14:26:30 I knew you had a lot on your hands Aug 18 14:26:36 cityLights: there was a deadline in June and an extended deadline in August, the meego.com had 300 devices to assign to open source developers and all of them have been assigned Aug 18 14:26:53 but I do love the device and enjoy writing small usable things Aug 18 14:27:10 I se Aug 18 14:27:18 well, at least I tried Aug 18 14:27:40 and I didnt want to use this public channel Aug 18 14:27:46 well, there are many developers in your situation and I can't sadly satisfy everybody - not even those that applied on time but didn't get accepted because there were not more than 300 devices Aug 18 14:28:03 I see Aug 18 14:28:25 watch Nokia Developer and your local Nokia developer channels, and pay attention to news related with the N9 Aug 18 14:28:31 I think that my n900 delivers the programs I actually need Aug 18 14:28:34 that's the best advice I can give you Aug 18 14:28:40 not 50k apps - no one uses Aug 18 14:28:58 cityLights: I'm not questios your software or skills - I simply don't have more N950 Aug 18 14:29:08 also , I like lardman - he is nice Aug 18 14:29:20 there was a limited edition meant to go out asap in order to let developers have apps ready before sales start Aug 18 14:29:26 no problems, stay safe Aug 18 14:29:51 cityLights: in the meantime there is a Qt SDK and a Harmattan platform SDK with emulators Aug 18 14:30:01 any idea if i may get a N9 next month, while in rome? Aug 18 14:30:16 also MeeGo upstream, of course Aug 18 14:30:25 cityLights: no idea Aug 18 14:30:39 ok, thanks for all your help Aug 18 14:30:57 btw, I was in touch with you regarding the n900 gps bug Aug 18 14:31:06 and sent you all kind of info Aug 18 14:31:36 remember that "getting a faster gps lock while on a bus doing 120 km/hr"? Aug 18 14:31:39 have any changes are made to linux kernel in meego from the standard linux kernel? Aug 18 14:31:57 nm, back to work Aug 18 14:32:15 janco: MeeGo uses an upstream kernel Aug 18 14:32:19 http://wiki.meego.com/Core_OS_Program/Kernel_policy Aug 18 14:32:25 did anyone here try to use ec2 from the device? Aug 18 14:33:03 like, start an ec2 instance, then send it a file and get back a response? Aug 18 14:33:09 seems usefull Aug 18 14:33:16 should be trivial if you can access it over the web Aug 18 14:33:33 I think the api needs java Aug 18 14:33:45 and I think meego doesnt come with java Aug 18 14:33:59 there's ec2-api-tools or something Aug 18 14:34:04 one may get a free instance on amazon today Aug 18 14:34:28 ec2-api-tools needs a working java env on the device Aug 18 14:34:55 this allows to run intence stuff of the device Aug 18 14:35:06 like agumented reality Aug 18 14:35:30 sounds interesting Aug 18 14:37:35 then the ec2 instance can stop after not being accesed for a while Aug 18 14:37:41 say 15 min Aug 18 15:14:32 * CosmoHill put the XKCD password comic on the uni wall today Aug 18 15:22:11 http://download.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/uiswing/components/list.html#init :) Aug 18 15:28:23 how much it takes to copy that raw image of n900 into the SD card ? Aug 18 15:28:59 TimmyT, 3.8gbish Aug 18 15:29:04 fits onto a 4gb card Aug 18 15:29:19 i run dd to write that on my class 4 SD card, but it was running for 1 hour and it was not done Aug 18 15:29:48 TimmyT, that sounds reasonable Aug 18 15:29:50 TimmyT: what bytesize did you use? Aug 18 15:29:54 i have a few cards here Aug 18 15:29:55 4096 Aug 18 15:30:02 and different ones take longer than an hour Aug 18 15:30:13 TimmyT, there are ways to check the dd progress Aug 18 15:30:23 use internet search to find out Aug 18 15:30:26 "dd progress" Aug 18 15:30:32 CosmoHill: 4096 as it was written in the wiki Aug 18 15:30:42 cool Aug 18 15:30:51 what class of memory card? Aug 18 15:31:00 http://linuxcommando.blogspot.com/2008/06/show-progress-during-dd-copy.html Aug 18 15:31:01 CosmoHill: 4 Aug 18 15:31:08 TimmyT, that works Aug 18 15:31:16 and will let you know where it is upto Aug 18 15:31:19 lcuk: hi btw, also: http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/xkcd-2.JPG Aug 18 15:31:30 just make sure you get the right signal ;) Aug 18 15:31:49 luck: there's a problem, when dd is working, it freezes my laptop and i can't even move the mouse Aug 18 15:32:20 so just let it do Aug 18 15:32:46 an hour isn't so long for certain devices Aug 18 15:33:29 lcuk: are u saying it may take more than one hour? Aug 18 15:33:48 yes Aug 18 15:34:15 i doubled the speed of dd on my computer Aug 18 15:34:22 how? Aug 18 15:34:23 it now completes in about 40 minutes.. Aug 18 15:34:28 TimmyT, different card Aug 18 15:34:29 a decent card reader and a higher class memory card would help Aug 18 15:34:32 just let it do Aug 18 15:34:39 ok Aug 18 15:35:01 I think play.com was having a sale on sandisk cards Aug 18 15:35:04 you can try running it with nice -10, might help with locking up your X Aug 18 15:35:49 tnx Aug 18 15:35:57 hey berndhs Aug 18 15:37:16 and i've another question, before this, i tried nitdroid, it was not rly usable , it had many problems. is meego stable and suitable to use that instead maemo? Aug 18 16:05:31 shi*, i just used another card reader, it completed in 731.547 s, 5.2 MB/s Aug 18 16:25:44 anyone got a direct link to the sis file for today's symbian update? Aug 18 16:50:11 ali1234: Symbian updates are really not the topic of MeeGo channels Aug 18 16:52:37 juliank, +1 Aug 18 16:56:05 but they are a twitter trending topic! Aug 18 16:56:19 so they should be the topic of every channel! =) Aug 18 16:56:27 Aug 18 16:57:22 i don't wanna talk about it. i just want a link Aug 18 17:03:18 ali1234, http://goatse.cx Aug 18 17:03:23 it's on there somewhere Aug 18 17:06:54 mic code is a bit fiddly, but at least it is python Aug 18 17:48:15 meego vanilla + chocolate would make a splendid UX Aug 18 17:48:22 lbt, what is your favourite ice cream? Aug 18 17:52:35 < forMeeGoBot> PROBLEM wiki.meego.com HTTP CRITICAL CRITICAL - Socket timeout after 10 seconds Thu Aug 18 17:47:26 UTC 2011 Aug 18 17:53:25 lbt: I guess that is something in your domain for a change? Aug 18 17:53:59 (Can't contact the database server: Unknown MySQL server host 'db.in.meego.com' (2) (db.in.meego.com)) - says the web interface Aug 18 17:55:23 also f.m.c down Aug 18 17:55:29 "Dqtqbqse error" when connecting the website Aug 18 17:55:36 Database* Aug 18 17:57:19 the "f you are the maintainer of this site, please check your database settings in the settings.php " message clearly needs to be removed ;) Aug 18 17:58:47 dm8tbr: mmm Aug 18 18:01:41 gah ... Aug 18 18:11:00 databases being down are frustrating to say the least Aug 18 18:11:05 * lcuk was reading about mic Aug 18 18:17:43 dm8tbr: all OK now? Aug 18 18:18:13 lcuk: nah, it was my fault. The intenal DNS server was migrated and the 2ndry didn't kick in Aug 18 18:18:28 lbt: resofixedverified ;) Aug 18 18:18:45 confirmed! Aug 18 18:19:06 ah yeas forgot to put that one in :D Aug 18 18:19:23 javispedro: what's fmc? Aug 18 18:19:31 dm8tbr: forum.meego.com Aug 18 18:19:35 ah Aug 18 18:19:45 lbt, lbt, best way to suggest and advance a ux Aug 18 18:19:46 I don't think I cared to monitor that one *cough* Aug 18 18:19:54 ie a proper meego-ce ux Aug 18 18:19:59 with distinct best bits Aug 18 18:20:13 like calendaring and shopping built in Aug 18 18:20:23 and whatever else we can muster up Aug 18 18:20:31 ie, actual new code for the -ce Aug 18 18:20:39 home made vanilla Aug 18 18:20:42 rather than just using and patching existing Aug 18 18:20:45 of course Aug 18 18:21:02 but how to describe and get the orchestration of such a thing funded Aug 18 18:21:15 lcuk: I'd pose that the community UX should be separate from the community hardware adaptations Aug 18 18:21:35 both should be community efforts and work closely together though ofc Aug 18 18:21:55 dm8tbr, the community ux will sit on the adaptions as it currently does Aug 18 18:22:07 lcuk: yes, ofc Aug 18 18:22:35 it's just that CE is currently NokLa only, while there are other devices out there Aug 18 18:22:40 and would have to be flexible enough and fancy enough to be built and *happily* work on the mainstream meego devices Aug 18 18:22:46 dm8tbr, yes Aug 18 18:22:51 that is why I am suggesting it Aug 18 18:22:56 and trying to add value ontop Aug 18 18:23:08 and make an actual plan to build such a thing Aug 18 18:23:13 *nod* Aug 18 18:23:33 ie, to actually integrate happily the apps.formeego Aug 18 18:23:49 and have the main ux itself really happily usable day/day Aug 18 18:24:18 just the CE naming is currently 'owned' by the nokia efforts and other community hardware adaptations might not want to try and integrate with the nokia people and processes. or should they? Aug 18 18:24:22 there are a great many components and pieces in meego currently but needing wow factor Aug 18 18:24:54 dm8tbr, the community effort is the community effort, it is wonderful nokia are building this Aug 18 18:25:01 it's a bit bike-shedding, but how about community-UX? Aug 18 18:25:08 but it is for all of us and hence all meego Aug 18 18:25:21 lcuk: just that during a recent CE meeting the statement was 'we don't know if we want other devices in the CE' Aug 18 18:25:22 dm8tbr, yes Aug 18 18:25:33 dm8tbr, link Aug 18 18:25:45 duh, let me find the irclogs... Aug 18 18:25:57 i can see why not though Aug 18 18:26:03 we need to make the ux outstanding Aug 18 18:26:09 with wayland coming along Aug 18 18:26:09 lcuk: get someone to make mock ups Aug 18 18:26:19 we have the backend to make special stuff Aug 18 18:26:28 ali1234, i can provide some Aug 18 18:26:34 but again it is longer term funding Aug 18 18:27:00 make a website Aug 18 18:27:02 then ask for coders Aug 18 18:27:02 why would anyone fund this project? Aug 18 18:27:20 it is not just coders Aug 18 18:27:32 you need artists too Aug 18 18:27:46 ali1234, it needs a complete team Aug 18 18:28:14 and designers Aug 18 18:29:20 lcuk: I fail to find the CE meeting logs :( Aug 18 18:29:29 Stskeeps: ^^^? Aug 18 18:29:54 and why, because a set of connected devices should run a consistent set of fantastic apps Aug 18 18:30:23 dm8tbr: irclogs.meego.com Aug 18 18:30:51 dm8tbr: and where did anyone say that about devices?.. Aug 18 18:30:59 dm8tbr: news to me Aug 18 18:31:01 Stskeeps: yeah, grrrreat, and _when_ is the meeting? Aug 18 18:31:10 there is a pile of logs Aug 18 18:31:28 and none say which meeting it was in the file name Aug 18 18:31:30 dm8tbr: check irc schedule? tuesdays for project meeting, thursday for adaptation Aug 18 18:31:35 ali1234, meego should bring together the best of open source Aug 18 18:31:40 meego-handset usually has logs Aug 18 18:31:51 in a way that wows Aug 18 18:32:03 it needs direction first Aug 18 18:32:04 Stskeeps: ah looked at CE not 'Community Edition' *sigh* Aug 18 18:32:04 lcuk: no the question is why should anyone fund *your* attempt at making that happen? Aug 18 18:32:04 lcuk: so far you have not stated any goals different from the meego project as a whole Aug 18 18:32:04 lcuk: isn't that what it is doing? Aug 18 18:32:13 ali1234, I am trying to give it direction Aug 18 18:33:39 dm8tbr: the devices thing is news to me, please find a quote :) Aug 18 18:33:49 Stskeeps: yes, I'm looking for it Aug 18 18:33:51 ali1234, I am trying to do this because I cannot believe that with the talent around we cannot manage to build a cohesive universal open UX Aug 18 18:34:29 and I would actually prefer to add to davids extensive stuff than do it myself Aug 18 18:34:38 snce I see folks much better than I around Aug 18 18:35:17 Stskeeps: http://irclogs.meego.com/meetbot/meego-meeting/2011/meego-meeting.2011-08-02-10.54.log.html - there the topic came up let me see if I can find what makes me think what I said Aug 18 18:35:57 ali1234, the topic needs discussing to ensure we all have focus Aug 18 18:36:18 Stskeeps: seems it was just '11:28:57 yep, enabling Nok-devices and OMAP3 is primary' and '11:28:32 jukkaeklund_, but obviously concentrating on the n9x0 is primary Aug 18 18:36:28 dm8tbr, sure Aug 18 18:36:39 that is not the same as excluding others Aug 18 18:36:42 yes Aug 18 18:37:03 that indicates where the focal point is Aug 18 18:37:09 we all have nokia devices to work from now Aug 18 18:37:24 but in 2 years time, if meego is thriving there will be 100 to choose from Aug 18 18:37:43 still I'm not sure if it makes sense to build layers here? Aug 18 18:37:56 find a way to do it without layers Aug 18 18:38:01 dm8tbr: think that refers to most of people paid to work focus on, but not excluding anything Aug 18 18:38:03 I am all ears (when I get back from smoke) Aug 18 18:38:09 as forMeeGo was started to give all community hardware adaptations a home Aug 18 18:38:23 Stskeeps: yes, that's how I read it too now Aug 18 18:40:30 lcuk: the question then is if we want to abandon the forMeeGo name all together? Aug 18 18:40:50 i vote for Mer Aug 18 18:41:15 Stskeeps: that would be in my opinion a fork-by-name Aug 18 18:41:43 if you rip out the MeeGo out of the name, what's left? Aug 18 18:42:08 you can call it mer and still be meego compliant Aug 18 18:42:25 arfoll: that's the vendor perspective Aug 18 18:42:45 MeeFly Aug 18 18:42:45 vendors want to differentiate from vanilla meego Aug 18 18:43:21 dm8tbr, walk into a store and look at numerous computers running Windows Aug 18 18:43:27 juliank: no pun intended, but that won't fly. We went through a lot of stuff before filing the bugs for forMeeGo Aug 18 18:43:53 dm8tbr: 4mee Aug 18 18:43:59 aside from a frosting of build time things, it is Windows Aug 18 18:44:07 lcuk: MeeGo doesn't have a decade long history of f*cking up people's experience with computers... Aug 18 18:44:14 dm8tbr, I would want the vanilla meego to be good enough for that to occur Aug 18 18:44:53 no, it has 20 years of linux doing same ;) Aug 18 18:45:09 lcuk: that's linux not meego Aug 18 18:45:20 standing on the shoulders Aug 18 18:46:02 sure, but it doesn't make any sense from a PR perspective Aug 18 18:46:13 I'm arguing that MeeGo should be ONE thing Aug 18 18:46:19 if each vendor has to come along to meego and start their own ux because the existing core one is not good enough Aug 18 18:46:24 doesn't that say something Aug 18 18:46:27 dm8tbr, I agree Aug 18 18:46:28 community and commercial efforts should be pushing together Aug 18 18:46:43 and it does not help if you name something completely different Aug 18 18:46:58 oh yes XYZ is totally meego, because it's named XYZ Aug 18 18:47:15 if the community splits by name, then it will split as a whole Aug 18 18:47:22 and that will be the beginning of the end. Aug 18 18:47:28 mene tekel u farsin Aug 18 18:48:11 so how do we gain the momentum to build or repair a UX to be proud of Aug 18 18:48:30 the apps.formeego is a different aspect of this Aug 18 18:48:42 * lbt would like to see CE support the exopc Aug 18 18:48:53 that would be cool Aug 18 18:48:56 lbt, I have applied for exopc Aug 18 18:49:25 and will be trying best as always to get it working well Aug 18 18:49:53 I still think though we'll have to start thinking what is what. there are parts that are UX and there are parts that are dependant on hardware aka adaptation Aug 18 18:50:05 dm8tbr, for sure Aug 18 18:50:48 another problem that complicates things is that handset is largely MTF AFAICT Aug 18 18:51:01 let me mention one place meego uxes need improvement: live desktop of sorts. it is very static and there were some cool mockups somewhere Aug 18 18:51:31 i think we are waiting on technology improvements Aug 18 18:51:38 Stskeeps has some ideas that go beyond UX Aug 18 18:52:00 dm8tbr, yeah Stskeeps and I have spoken for years and volleyed many ideas between each other Aug 18 18:52:03 dm8tbr: i'd be joyful if we had a meego core programme that actually worked and at least held up to the ideals of the project :P Aug 18 18:52:10 ++++ Aug 18 18:52:12 at the moment it doesn't Aug 18 18:52:12 it could be interesting to take what will be 1.3 and start building a new community UX on top of that Aug 18 18:52:27 and it's not even UX'es i'm talking about :) Aug 18 18:52:37 i have my existing prototypes and can give ux input Aug 18 18:52:58 Stskeeps: I know what you mean and although I lack the overview I share the feeling Aug 18 18:52:59 everybody is good at different parts Aug 18 18:53:17 we just need to become a cohesive unit and follow it through Aug 18 18:53:53 lcuk: yes, I wouldn't lump device adaptations into the UX though Aug 18 18:54:03 dm8tbr, I wasn't! Aug 18 18:54:22 device categories are already there, we just need to organise a UX which spans them Aug 18 18:54:24 well CE is a community hardware adaptation project Aug 18 18:54:41 sort of, it's more like hardware adaptation + meego core + a UX Aug 18 18:54:43 it is blended at present Aug 18 18:54:46 layered Aug 18 18:54:51 heh Aug 18 18:54:55 well, in on big trunk.. Aug 18 18:54:55 :P Aug 18 18:54:55 permed Aug 18 18:55:01 yes, and it would IMHO make sense to untangle this Aug 18 18:55:21 well, we're doing the initial 1.3 moves atm Aug 18 18:56:18 lbt, which elements of the exopc would benefit from -CE currently that you see? Aug 18 18:56:38 Stskeeps, are we estimating wayland will be there? Aug 18 18:57:07 probably, but wayland will go first on tablet ux anyway Aug 18 18:57:08 or still using x and compositing Aug 18 18:57:21 dm8tbr: maybe the website should be formeegolike.org Aug 18 18:59:51 now that jaffa mentioned the tsg, when is the next meeting? Aug 18 19:01:06 dunno Aug 18 19:02:15 is TSG public or also behind closed doors like so many things I've recently found out about? Aug 18 19:02:51 Stskeeps, would an outline towards a proper MeeGo CE UX for 1.4 be reasonable timescale given funding and manpower? Aug 18 19:03:47 to actuall get over the niggles and complexities required and ensure the technology phased in for 1.3 are strong Aug 18 19:03:57 lcuk: what matters first is a solid and useful core Aug 18 19:04:02 a UX by a community is possible, imho Aug 18 19:04:06 but it requires dedication Aug 18 19:04:15 hence me suggesting 1.4 Aug 18 19:04:29 give the seeds planted time to grow and mature Aug 18 19:05:05 * lbt thinks we should be focusing on a minimising effort needed to support multiple devices. Aug 18 19:05:13 ++ Aug 18 19:05:24 lbt, I asked same question right at the start Aug 18 19:05:33 lbt++ Aug 18 19:05:40 like: how come we had to redo all the work on n900 adaption when it was already in maemo Aug 18 19:05:43 target UI ... X or wayland cursor on black background with an xterm Aug 18 19:06:09 lcuk: that's more complex, a lot of n900 stuff was tied up in closed source frameworks Aug 18 19:06:15 lt, give ui teams chance and scope to create and define awesome Aug 18 19:06:16 and on ancient kernel by standards Aug 18 19:06:22 Stskeeps, yes I know now Aug 18 19:06:33 back then I didn't - lbt just reraised the question Aug 18 19:07:43 * lcuk thinks we have all learnt important lessons over period Aug 18 19:17:10 Stskeeps: dm8tbr: lcuk: I think, from talking to Dawn, TSG meetings are now being held as-needed; and there is a feeling that there is no need for them - and that the TSG is increasingly there as a fallback, rather than an active person within the project (my words) Aug 18 19:18:02 that is true, yes, but it's not like there's really that many left either ;) Aug 18 19:18:12 except for arjan on mailing lists Aug 18 19:18:15 Jaffa, reasonable though their input would be valued if we are to progress with a plan for 1.4 all meego ce Aug 18 19:19:06 got d/c... stupid traffic shaper doesn't like when i upload youtube videos Aug 18 19:19:42 Jaffa, lbt's point about reducing complexity for new device is important Aug 18 19:19:56 at present each requires a massive amount of effort Aug 18 19:21:53 Jaffa: so ..... what does that mean about the role of CO? Aug 18 19:34:19 what I'm missing is a graph of hierarchy and interconnects Aug 18 19:34:27 who answers to whom etc Aug 18 19:35:05 I don't answer to anyone :) Aug 18 19:40:46 dm8tbr, it would be amusing to view irc stats of who talks with who Aug 18 19:41:22 lcuk: I've seen stuff this could be done with... just takes idle play hands Aug 18 19:41:24 that would get me a meegoverse achievement :P Aug 18 19:41:39 lcuk: there are some people who just talk to themselves in irc Aug 18 19:41:47 * lcuk nods Aug 18 19:41:56 i know sometimes i do Aug 18 19:42:02 dm8tbr: http://www.jibble.org/piespy/ Aug 18 19:42:09 * lcuk gets good answers from himself sometimes :P Aug 18 19:42:52 wow w00t_ :D Aug 18 19:58:00 i've installed meego summer release on my N900, it was really slow, how to make it faster to run apps? Aug 18 19:58:22 TimmyT, first boot is sluggish Aug 18 19:58:27 what are you wanting to use on it? Aug 18 19:58:51 TimmyT, as a test of something, could you open the calculator and type "5." Aug 18 19:59:08 I am curious how far back bug 20099 has happened Aug 18 19:59:10 Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20099 nor, High, ---, geoff, ASSI, [CE] Calculator crashes after pressing any button and then "." . Aug 18 20:00:59 not calculator, it takes a while to start an app, like terminal or messages, ro change che profile into silent, everything, its really slow, i've installed that on a SD card class 4 Aug 18 20:01:13 wait about half an hour Aug 18 20:01:31 ali1234: wat? Aug 18 20:01:47 on first boot it copies a huge file for no reason Aug 18 20:01:52 it takes ages Aug 18 20:01:59 and makes the whole system really slow until it finishes Aug 18 20:02:30 nobody can give me a straight answer on what the file is, or why it is copied Aug 18 20:02:39 but there it is Aug 18 20:02:55 ali1234: sample-media fun, though we don't copy anymore Aug 18 20:03:07 what's seen now is the slowass tracker indexing Aug 18 20:03:12 thumbnailing, etc Aug 18 20:03:14 :( Aug 18 20:03:20 Stskeeps, what is it thumbaniling though? Aug 18 20:03:25 really? are u saying i leave the phone for half an hour? kuz i've rebooted that and now it's runnig maemo Aug 18 20:03:26 there is minimal media Aug 18 20:03:28 lcuk: videos, pictures Aug 18 20:03:32 why that ca't be prepopulated in the image? Aug 18 20:03:39 ali1234: i keep on asking the same question.. Aug 18 20:03:42 Stskeeps, the image contains a movie 1.5mb Aug 18 20:03:44 lbt: CO's in charge, AFAICT Aug 18 20:04:09 TimmyT: pretty much, yes Aug 18 20:04:11 Jaffa, indeed Aug 18 20:04:16 maybe not half an hour... maybe 15 minutes Aug 18 20:04:32 * lcuk should benchmark some things Aug 18 20:04:33 lbt: lcuk: And "architects, maintainers & project owners" Aug 18 20:04:38 ok, so im going to reboot my device Aug 18 20:04:55 Jaffa, yes but we need some public projects to have arch and owners! Aug 18 20:05:32 so meego officially has no leadership ? Aug 18 20:05:58 arjan's still active and in charge ;) Aug 18 20:06:09 so i wouldn't say none Aug 18 20:06:41 ok... it has many leaders who have no public inter-communication Aug 18 20:06:52 arjan doesn't go to CO meetings Aug 18 20:07:00 CO meetings are a series of status reports Aug 18 20:07:26 * lbt doesn't say too much about what happens when CO is supposed to act on an issue... sore point Aug 18 20:08:07 I suppose we can assume they all read each others emails on the various lists Aug 18 20:09:27 there has been defined leadership from jukka and msugano recent months towards the n900-ce Aug 18 20:10:00 active participation and managing to find a good balance Aug 18 20:10:11 would you agree Stskeeps Aug 18 20:10:20 Joel is active in ivi Aug 18 20:10:29 yes, but i'm going to sleep now Aug 18 20:10:41 me too Aug 18 20:17:18 btw, Jaffa, lbt - ask Ari if you think meego needs somebody on top Aug 18 20:21:54 welp, http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2011/110818b.html?mtxs=rss-corp-news <-- WebOS is dead. Aug 18 20:24:29 where to get some theme for meego? its theme is not really look like what is shown in website, Aug 18 20:36:29 anyone knows where to get this theme? https://meego.com/devices/handset/handset-screenshots Aug 18 20:38:52 timmyt that is the original vanilla ux Aug 18 20:39:25 that is not available in mine. i've installed community edition 1.2 Aug 18 20:40:12 i wonder where an aava is to test its ux against current is Aug 18 20:40:46 aava == moorestown == dead. at least that's what i gather Aug 18 20:40:56 yep Aug 18 20:41:11 no images for aava since 1.1 iirc Aug 18 20:41:19 i think all dev has gone to medfield, but havent seen stuff for that in a while either Aug 18 20:41:29 javispedro: did you see the webOS news? just checking since this is offtopic :) Aug 18 20:41:53 hah! Aug 18 20:42:02 I read about the rumors a few hours ago Aug 18 20:42:46 hm maybe I should read more (for once), my source is the guy sitting next to me in the office and reading the interwebs :) Aug 18 20:43:10 I see that the real news seem to be even worse :P Aug 18 20:43:24 [21:52] seemingly my favourite backup platform is going to enjoy something similar to our own elopcalypse .. Aug 18 20:44:13 still, if the news are confirmed the real news will be what HP does next Aug 18 20:45:42 engadget got it already also: http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/18/hp-will-discontinue-operations-for-webos-devices/ Aug 18 20:48:59 what was the url for the osc config file again, was it pub.api.meego.com? Aug 18 20:49:40 oops, api.pub.meego.com, nvm Aug 18 20:53:05 ah well, one mobile platform less. albeit some still have hope HP might really end up licensing it. Aug 18 20:53:40 yeah, just like symbian got licensed so many times xD Aug 18 20:53:52 even in the palm world we know how well that works Aug 18 20:53:54 if at least Qt would run on it... Aug 18 20:54:50 it runs... it runs X11 these days after all. Aug 18 20:55:18 webOS runs X11 now? Aug 18 20:56:20 _under_ their native windowing system (which is qt embedded based btw) Aug 18 20:56:34 I know it runs Qt in the back, but I meant more like official support for it. Aug 18 20:57:10 Palm/HP used Qt in some of their apps for webOS. just like android does. Aug 18 20:57:32 not "some", the entire UI is Qt Aug 18 20:59:05 i thought it was like, made out of webs and stuff Aug 18 20:59:46 ah Aug 18 21:00:20 ali1234: that would like saying meego is made out of qmls javascripts and stuff Aug 18 21:00:27 it is their public API. Aug 18 21:00:50 lcukn900: I suspect Ari'll be a bit busy in the next few days :-/ Aug 18 21:01:09 Jaffa, indeed Aug 18 21:01:10 meego is not made out of QMLs??? Aug 18 21:02:31 that line reminded me of a certain san francisco appup session.. Aug 18 21:34:45 DAMMIT Aug 18 21:34:49 * CosmoHill missed traffic cops Aug 18 21:35:00 DAMMIT Aug 18 21:35:24 * CosmoHill also missed Have I Got Old News For You Aug 18 21:35:35 * SpeedEvil drops iplayer on CosmoHill Aug 18 21:36:43 and the Big Bang Theory >.< Aug 18 21:40:01 * lbt is a new convert to the Big Bang Theory Aug 18 21:40:29 lbt: http://cross-lfs.org/~cosmo/xkcd-2.JPG Aug 18 21:41:29 Many levels of amusing Aug 18 21:41:36 lol notice board in glass case Aug 18 21:41:44 legal crap - with 'call 6666 for more info' Aug 18 21:41:47 * CosmoHill is watching How I Met Your Mother Aug 18 21:42:30 bored student left alone who knows how to use the printers Aug 18 21:42:41 (printing is a dark art in this uni) Aug 18 21:53:39 CosmoHill: I've caught sections of it before, but this week I've watched a few (old) episodes - E4+1 showing it when I have dinner. It is good Aug 18 22:31:48 anyone here successfully using osc? Aug 18 22:31:52 with obs Aug 18 22:34:33 antman8969: COBS? Yes. See http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_OBS Aug 18 22:35:13 I've done most of the setup, but whenever I try to use httpS I'm getting rejected Aug 18 22:35:33 wasn't sure if anyone knew some specific gotcha.. Aug 18 22:36:34 ^ jaffa Aug 18 22:38:13 antman8969: Those instructions worked for me (cos I noted them as they worked ;-)) Aug 18 22:38:58 jaffa: lol yea they worked for me too.. until a few weeks ago and I'm not quite sure why. I can use http://api.pub.meego.com but I can't commit and it complains about ssl.... Aug 18 22:40:20 antman8969: Ah, I've not done anything in the last week or so Aug 18 22:40:34 antman8969: Worth poking X-Fade to see if the SSL cert's expired (always used to happen on maemo.org) Aug 18 22:41:17 jaffa yea. I feel like it's probably something I'm doing lol. I'll play around a little before bothering him Aug 18 22:41:35 was ok for me 3 days ago Aug 18 22:42:26 antman8969: Worth asking; can't do any harm. lbt might know too Aug 18 22:43:01 well just to be sure before. Tell me if this looks correct Aug 18 22:43:11 apiurl = https://api.pub.meego.com Aug 18 22:43:15 user = antman8969 Aug 18 22:43:19 pass = ****** Aug 18 22:43:30 that should be all for credentials.. (other params as noted in wiki) Aug 18 22:44:42 antman8969: Is that in ~/.oscrc? Aug 18 22:44:51 yep Aug 18 22:44:58 antman8969: I literally typed nothing that wasn't in that doc. My ~/.oscrc looks more like: Aug 18 22:45:45 mm Aug 18 22:45:50 antman8969: http://pastebin.com/Gpyv15Jw Aug 18 22:46:28 your default apiurl is api.pub.meego.com right? Aug 18 22:46:31 jaffa Aug 18 22:46:39 https Aug 18 22:46:48 antman8969: you said http Aug 18 22:47:05 I did http to get around the SSL error lbt, when I do https I get this Aug 18 22:47:37 Server returned an error: HTTP Error 401: Unauthorized Aug 18 22:47:45 thats from trying osc ls Aug 18 22:47:55 what OS Aug 18 22:48:00 and what osc Aug 18 22:48:27 ubuntu 10.04, and the OSC from the meego repos Aug 18 22:48:30 not the ubuntu one Aug 18 22:48:30 antman8969: COBS is the only OBS install I've used on this box, yes Aug 18 22:48:41 * Jaffa is using the Ubuntu one on 11.04 Aug 18 22:49:19 I have tried the default Ubuntu one as well... But this WAS working a few weeks ago on my laptop, unless I'm crazy Aug 18 22:49:42 if I try to do it without https, then I'll get this message lbt Aug 18 22:49:43 WARNING: SSL certificate checks disabled. Connection is insecure! Aug 18 22:49:56 It works... but can't commit Aug 18 22:51:01 mmm Aug 18 22:51:40 we don't need to submit any keys to the site do we? Aug 18 22:51:44 no Aug 18 22:53:20 lbt, heres my .oscrc if it helps http://pastebin.com/Av7asLr3 Aug 18 22:53:41 didn't touch anything besides the apiurl, credentials and debug params Aug 18 22:54:22 set debug and http_debug = 1 Aug 18 22:55:01 (general comment : use_keyring = 1 is useful too ...) Aug 18 22:56:20 http://pastebin.com/xBD3Dagr lbt Aug 18 22:56:27 nothing obvoius.. i'll try the keyring Aug 18 22:58:09 no luck Aug 18 23:01:25 any idea lbt? Aug 18 23:01:45 yeah ... wrong passwd Aug 18 23:02:22 it is the one I use to sign in over the web interface, correct? Aug 18 23:02:39 yes Aug 18 23:03:32 hm.... retried and nothing. I DID change my passwd on the site a few weeks ago to this one. I tried the old password too and nothing Aug 18 23:03:38 i'll login to the site again to make sure.. Aug 18 23:03:46 I'm watching logs Aug 18 23:04:17 * CosmoHill is watching Wilfred (US version) Aug 18 23:04:25 just tried again... I'll copy and paste from my oscrc directly into the site to be 100% sure I'm not luckily mistyping.. Aug 18 23:04:57 def right password (as far as I can influence).. Aug 18 23:06:39 very frustrating... Aug 18 23:08:40 hold up Aug 18 23:08:40 the thing is ... the webui just sends your username/pw to the api Aug 18 23:08:54 .... Aug 18 23:09:01 I removed the section with my credientials, forcing OSC to prompt me for it on the spot Aug 18 23:09:03 and it worked Aug 18 23:09:21 and if you check the .oscrc Aug 18 23:09:34 I'm wondering if you had a space in it? Aug 18 23:09:48 I'm gona reformat it right now to see... Aug 18 23:10:00 while I do that... any weird formatting rules?? Aug 18 23:10:22 no Aug 18 23:10:33 it's working now... Im not sure what that was Aug 18 23:10:53 ok .. good Aug 18 23:11:14 well that was a waste of an hour Aug 18 23:11:18 thanks lbt.. Aug 18 23:12:22 np Aug 19 00:00:21 so what's the whole webOS thing mean for meego? Aug 19 00:01:35 Who knows... no more alternative Linux-userland OSes to look to if/when MeeGo fails to take off. Aug 19 00:02:04 More interest from prospective vendors in MeeGo because it's the only "normal"(ish) Linux userland mobile OS? Aug 19 00:02:35 Less interest from prospective vendors in MeeGo because it's the only "normal"(ish) Linux userland mobile OS, and there's never been a successful one; so why take the risk? Aug 19 00:04:28 it's pretty depressing to use a bad economy as a reason to kill an os, especially when it looked somewhat promising Aug 19 00:04:58 About as depressing as "we couldn't have the range of h/w we desire" :-( Aug 19 00:05:37 yeah exactly Aug 19 00:16:02 Jaffa++ about that "the only normalish Linux userland". Aug 19 00:17:14 That doesn't bother me *too* much, TBH. Jailbroken iPad2 can be SSHed into and wget/screen run on it Aug 19 00:17:32 But, Android feels so boring and I don't want an iPhone Aug 19 00:17:47 and probably even run a X11 server on the iPad these days. Aug 19 00:18:34 in fact seemingly the iOS BSD userland is more sane than Android's. Aug 19 01:43:44 Jaffa, i see very few people actively talking about what hardware they desire - it normally already exists in one category or another and for me personally dualmode screens with capacitive and pen were talked about often long before the htc flyer came around (which I will get as soon as I can afford) Aug 19 01:47:06 from a quick glance meego should build on it :) Aug 19 02:09:27 Project:DE:Trunk:Testing is the repository for CE changes right? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Aug 19 02:59:57 2011