**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Nov 10 02:59:57 2008 Nov 10 11:15:22 arthur92710: if you want to learn linux in a real enviroment but don't want to abondon windows, try a virtual pc Nov 10 11:15:56 you can have the full linux experiance while still being in the comfortable confines of windows Nov 10 11:29:10 you can't have the full linux experience while still being in the comfortable confines of windows Nov 10 11:29:23 you can have "a" linux experience Nov 10 11:30:00 that's like saying you can climb mt everest watching a nova tv show about it Nov 10 11:31:57 DogBoy Nov 10 11:32:15 you can do everything in a virtual pc that you can do in a real os Nov 10 11:32:22 so, yes, you can have a full experiance Nov 10 11:34:24 did you read my remarks above Nov 10 11:34:33 the ones which started this line of thought Nov 10 11:34:56 the ones where you recommended him to try using linux Nov 10 11:35:00 in order to learn some commands Nov 10 11:35:14 instead of asking here for every bit of linux help Nov 10 11:35:16 ? Nov 10 11:35:43 I didn't say any of that but that was the basic idea Nov 10 11:35:57 and he can do that fully in a virtual pc Nov 10 11:36:04 hehe Nov 10 11:36:05 which was my recommendation since he wants to stay with windows Nov 10 11:36:21 why do you laugh? Nov 10 11:36:52 what is it you are recommending? Nov 10 11:37:33 he uses windows right? And obviously stated that he wants to stay in windows ... but would be interested in taking your suggestion and learning some linux stuff Nov 10 11:37:45 so he considered dual booting Nov 10 11:37:57 I was just saying, he can do the exact same thing with a virtual pc Nov 10 11:38:03 but he can do it while in windows Nov 10 11:38:21 and its 100% the same as if he booted into linux for real Nov 10 11:38:38 therefor, he could keep using windows, and use linux at any time he wishes without rebooting into linux Nov 10 11:38:44 except for the part where you're not forced to do things in a new way Nov 10 11:38:58 since you have windows right there Nov 10 11:39:10 he still has windows "right there" even with a dual boot Nov 10 11:39:22 well exactly Nov 10 11:40:08 I'm just suggesting it to him Nov 10 11:40:16 if he wants to learn linux and wants to stay in windows also Nov 10 11:40:21 virtual pc is the way to go Nov 10 11:40:26 not really Nov 10 11:40:36 he's already got that situation with the slug Nov 10 11:40:39 heh Nov 10 11:40:55 with that logic, he might as well just stay with the slug then Nov 10 11:41:19 exactly Nov 10 11:41:38 and continue asking basic unix/linux questions here Nov 10 11:41:54 well, dude Nov 10 11:41:58 why bother learning to fish when everybody will give him fish Nov 10 11:42:00 you were the one who originally suggested it Nov 10 11:42:09 suggested what Nov 10 11:42:10 [08:30:02:pm] maybe you could take a break from your slug adventures and learn to use linux Nov 10 11:42:10 [08:30:16:pm] install it on your desktop Nov 10 11:42:37 I can just duel boot Nov 10 11:42:37 I thought so too Nov 10 11:42:37 but I found myself booting back into windows to do stuff the windows way whenever I encountered the least resistance Nov 10 11:42:41 he seemed to agree to that idea ... so I just suggested maybe he should consider a virtual pc Nov 10 11:43:13 no one is going to learn linux by themselves DogBoy Nov 10 11:43:18 he's going to have to ask questions Nov 10 11:43:36 or obtain the facts someother way Nov 10 11:43:40 be it google or a book Nov 10 11:43:41 what is it we're arguing about? Nov 10 11:43:44 idk Nov 10 11:44:29 anyways .... arthur92710 you have your suggestion from DogBoy ... I just suggest you consider a virtual pc maybe Nov 10 11:44:35 its up to him what he wants to do Nov 10 11:44:44 * DrJ is fine with answering questions though Nov 10 11:44:53 even if they are the most basic newbi ones ever Nov 10 11:44:57 I've noticed that Nov 10 11:45:34 one thing that bothers me the most when I need help with something and I go to irc Nov 10 11:45:43 is the rtfm approch Nov 10 11:45:54 if I was going to do it that way, I would have used google Nov 10 11:46:00 just the opposite bothers me Nov 10 11:46:19 my opinion on the matter, and you are entitled to yours Nov 10 11:46:31 if all we do is send them to a manual Nov 10 11:46:32 people that go on irc assuming that other people have the time to answer their questions that they could answer themselves Nov 10 11:46:45 we might as well kick-ban everyone who joins Nov 10 11:46:51 and point them to a search engine Nov 10 11:47:00 you're talking nonsense Nov 10 11:47:12 imo: people who don't have the time to help, should not even talk when someone asks Nov 10 11:47:36 what is it you don't get about what I am saying? Nov 10 11:47:48 oh, I understand what you are saying Nov 10 11:47:57 well read it back to me then Nov 10 11:47:58 I was just giving my opinion, and you were giving yours Nov 10 11:48:07 because I don't think you do Nov 10 11:48:27 you were saying arthur92710 should learn to use linux so he doesn't have to ask so many newbi questions here all the time Nov 10 11:48:33 I'm just saying that is what we are here for Nov 10 11:48:38 and it doesn't bother me Nov 10 11:48:46 well, let me rephrase that Nov 10 11:48:50 its what I'm here for Nov 10 11:48:53 at least Nov 10 11:49:14 I never said any of that Nov 10 11:50:19 yes you did Nov 10 11:50:29 you said people should not come here expecting that we have the time to help Nov 10 11:50:39 I didn't say that either Nov 10 11:50:48 [06:46:30:am] people that go on irc assuming that other people have the time to answer their questions that they could answer themselves Nov 10 11:50:54 please explain that sentance to me then Nov 10 11:51:19 read it in context Nov 10 11:51:21 ? Nov 10 11:51:23 any question could probably be answered by themselves with a google search ... but we are another route they can take Nov 10 11:51:41 yea, but not the first resort Nov 10 11:51:52 it's one thing to be stuck on something and ask Nov 10 11:52:33 but treating irc like a man page or a google search doesn't lead to any type of independent thought Nov 10 11:53:00 it leads to more hand holding Nov 10 11:53:15 you being ok with that is besides the point Nov 10 11:54:46 all I'm saying is I get upset when I join a help channel on irc, ask a question and all I get is someone typing a command to have a bot point me to a wiki page or something (yea we are not that bad here) ... what really gets me though is 9 times out of 10 I have already read that page and did not understand it Nov 10 11:55:13 what's the got to do with what we are talking about Nov 10 11:55:13 I'm not going to question everyone who comes here if they've googled their issue or not Nov 10 11:55:19 if I know the answer, and can help/teach them Nov 10 11:55:20 I will Nov 10 11:55:33 and I also always give them a wiki source also Nov 10 11:55:58 like I said DogBoy, that is irrelevant here Nov 10 11:56:02 as we are not that bad Nov 10 11:56:28 what is irrelevant here? Nov 10 11:56:34 the bot thing Nov 10 11:56:51 [06:55:11:am] what's the got to do with what we are talking about Nov 10 11:56:57 I assumed "got" meant "bot" Nov 10 11:57:11 what's that got to do with what we are talking about Nov 10 11:57:19 got means got Nov 10 11:57:35 ah, well it didn't work with the, and bot did, and I was just talking about bot Nov 10 11:57:40 so you should see why I thought bot Nov 10 11:57:56 its got everything to do with what we are talking about Nov 10 11:58:36 so anyway, my viewpoint is it's important to try to teach people to fish, and your viewpoint is you enjoy doing the fishing for them Nov 10 11:58:45 no Nov 10 11:58:51 I teach them Nov 10 11:58:56 I don't just give them the answer Nov 10 11:58:57 uh huh Nov 10 11:59:00 you can ask arthur92710 that Nov 10 11:59:07 I give him a command and spend a minute explaining it Nov 10 11:59:28 but I never just tell them Nov 10 11:59:36 here: www.wiki.com/whatever Nov 10 11:59:45 but Nov 10 11:59:54 I do always give them one at some point (if there is one) Nov 10 12:00:12 but never do I leave it at that Nov 10 12:01:53 and yea, I know why you disagree with me ... as I know I'm in the minority on this issue Nov 10 12:02:02 but that's my view point and I will never change it Nov 10 12:02:13 lol Nov 10 12:02:26 to everyone on IRC who takes the rtfm approch to helping people on IRC Nov 10 12:02:33 I recommend them to /part #chan Nov 10 12:02:42 as you say Nov 10 12:02:47 you're in the minority Nov 10 12:02:51 or do like I said earlier Nov 10 12:02:55 kick/ban them on join Nov 10 12:03:06 and give them a message pointing them to google Nov 10 12:03:40 so people should not read the manual? Nov 10 12:03:49 no, they should Nov 10 12:03:56 so what are you saying Nov 10 12:04:03 I'm saying if they come here for help Nov 10 12:04:06 I will give it to them Nov 10 12:04:10 if they go to the wiki for help Nov 10 12:04:14 the wiki will give it to them Nov 10 12:04:16 and not suggest that they read the manual? Nov 10 12:04:25 whoa Nov 10 12:04:34 I always give them the wiki link if there is one Nov 10 12:04:39 which I just said a few minutes ago Nov 10 12:04:48 wiki... manual... what's the difference Nov 10 12:05:05 [06:55:17:am] if I know the answer, and can help/teach them Nov 10 12:05:05 [06:55:18:am] I will Nov 10 12:05:05 [06:55:31:am] and I also always give them a wiki source also Nov 10 12:05:12 when I say wiki and manual DogBoy Nov 10 12:05:17 I am referring to the same thing Nov 10 12:05:47 and this is more helpful that suggesting they read the manual how Nov 10 12:06:11 I walk them through it, teach them what the commands do and mean Nov 10 12:06:20 answer their questions as they go through it Nov 10 12:06:25 and in the end Nov 10 12:06:54 they walk away with a better knowledge of how to do the task, the overall comannds, and everything else Nov 10 12:07:04 why would they bother reading the manual if you will do it for them Nov 10 12:07:04 over if they were left to read the manual on their own Nov 10 12:07:17 if they don't want to read the manual Nov 10 12:07:20 that's their choice Nov 10 12:08:09 but like I tell them in the biginning, in some cases like installing something, that I am just walking them through the wiki Nov 10 12:08:41 but I will never give them the wiki link and say, good day Nov 10 12:10:46 this channel though is luckily not near as bad with the rtfm thing as others on this network Nov 10 12:10:54 many of them will only give you that Nov 10 12:10:56 and nothing else Nov 10 12:11:23 which is why I say just kick/ban them on join with a message in the kick telling them to go to the wiki and or google Nov 10 12:11:33 blah blah blah Nov 10 12:11:39 :) Nov 10 12:11:53 even you agree with me on that though DogBoy Nov 10 12:12:08 that if they wiki doesn't answer their questions that help here is warrented Nov 10 12:12:18 *the wiki Nov 10 12:12:34 many channels don't Nov 10 12:12:37 they'll just say Nov 10 12:12:46 "you didn't read the link the bot gave you" Nov 10 12:12:54 and that's all the hundreds of users are there for Nov 10 12:12:57 I think it's disrespectful for people to go on irc and ask homework questions Nov 10 12:13:01 is to say, you didn't read the link the bot gave you Nov 10 12:14:01 like I said, if you don't want to answer their questions like that ... you have every right to ignore them .... and let someone who does answer Nov 10 12:14:09 it's like saying "I don't have time to figure this out, but I assume you have time to explain it to me" Nov 10 12:14:22 oh believe me on this DogBoy Nov 10 12:14:28 if they don't have the time to figure it out themselves Nov 10 12:14:32 they do not have the time for me Nov 10 12:14:43 because like I said Nov 10 12:14:46 I explain everything, fully Nov 10 12:14:59 I give them a command, explain it for minutes Nov 10 12:15:03 then move on to the next step Nov 10 12:15:23 wiki would be much faster if they were capable of understanding it, or took the time to Nov 10 12:15:38 well exactly Nov 10 12:16:00 and I agree with you on the fact that they should consult the wiki first Nov 10 12:16:08 especially since so many people have spent so much time on it Nov 10 12:16:15 which is why I also always link them to it Nov 10 12:16:20 but telling them that is somehow rude Nov 10 12:16:21 and like I said earlier Nov 10 12:16:40 I usually inform them that all I am actualyl doing is walking them through that wiki page Nov 10 12:16:52 no Nov 10 12:17:10 what's rude is telling them the wiki page ... giving them nothing past that Nov 10 12:17:19 if they say they didn't understand it ... telling them to read it closer Nov 10 12:17:22 which like I said Nov 10 12:17:25 is not as bad here Nov 10 12:17:45 as it is in many other help channels on this network Nov 10 12:17:55 this channel is pretty good at giving help here when needed Nov 10 12:17:58 you keep saying that Nov 10 12:18:06 well you keep seeming to miss it Nov 10 12:18:27 if I did, how would I notice that you keep saying it Nov 10 12:18:43 that's why I said you "seem" Nov 10 12:18:53 which was implied with this: [07:16:18:am] but telling them that is somehow rude Nov 10 12:19:51 all I'm saying is I get upset when I join a help channel on irc, ask a question and all I get is someone typing a command to have a bot point me to a wiki page or something (yea we are not that bad here) ... what really gets me though is 9 times out of 10 I have already read that page and did not understand it Nov 10 12:20:52 there is nothing wrong with having a bot with factoids on it Nov 10 12:20:57 it's pretty useful actually Nov 10 12:20:58 no Nov 10 12:21:03 but if the user doesn't understand it Nov 10 12:21:08 like I said if you keep on reading below Nov 10 12:21:12 yes but you're generalizing Nov 10 12:21:15 you shouldn't just say Nov 10 12:21:28 "they're like that" "we're like this" blah blah blah Nov 10 12:21:29 "you didn't read it" or "you didn't read it close enough" or "read it again" Nov 10 12:23:19 I will just never understand why a project would ever create a help channel if all that help channel does is point to the wiki ... if all you want to provide for help is the wiki, then don't offer anything else (like an IRC chat) Nov 10 12:23:47 and if you don't have the time to help, or don't want to Nov 10 12:23:56 I personally question your reason for being here in the first place Nov 10 12:24:30 that's nice Nov 10 18:50:27 hi all Nov 10 18:50:36 nick /sto^ Nov 10 18:50:57 have a little problem with my nslu Nov 10 18:51:05 ? Nov 10 18:51:16 well i redbooted it... and everything worked fine Nov 10 18:51:27 BUT i cant get into the web interface Nov 10 18:51:32 which firmware Nov 10 18:51:33 i ping it.. it responses Nov 10 18:51:56 tried with orginal.. didnt work .. now i put on 6.8 Nov 10 18:52:26 i can ping it... the orginal CD finds the NAS but i cant connect to it with the browser Nov 10 18:52:50 Ping wird ausgeführt für 192.168.1.77 mit 32 Bytes Daten: Nov 10 18:52:52 Antwort von 192.168.1.77: Bytes=32 Zeit<1ms TTL=64 Nov 10 18:53:25 did you buy this nslu2 used Nov 10 18:53:27 ? Nov 10 18:53:35 nah its new Nov 10 18:53:37 it was lol Nov 10 18:53:52 try: http://192.168.1.77:80 Nov 10 18:53:57 i did Nov 10 18:54:03 nothin changes back to normal Nov 10 18:54:09 ? Nov 10 18:54:10 tried with 8080 too Nov 10 18:54:41 okay, maybe you should try port scanning it Nov 10 18:54:48 hm Nov 10 18:54:54 http://www.radmin.com/products/utilities/portscanner.php Nov 10 18:56:02 port 1 til... Nov 10 18:56:13 10000 Nov 10 18:56:15 should suffice Nov 10 18:56:27 it'll go really quick Nov 10 18:57:02 ok Nov 10 18:57:05 scannin Nov 10 18:58:27 hm ok Nov 10 18:58:38 ? Nov 10 18:58:49 bullshit ^^ Nov 10 18:58:52 port 8282 Nov 10 18:58:54 :D Nov 10 18:59:02 yea, your nslu2 is not new Nov 10 18:59:11 :) Nov 10 18:59:12 well Nov 10 18:59:21 idk Nov 10 18:59:33 i tryd puttin slug on it Nov 10 18:59:40 slugos? Nov 10 18:59:43 but my external HDD was bitchin^^ Nov 10 18:59:51 i tryd for months Nov 10 19:00:00 then i got bored and put it away Nov 10 19:00:25 what was the issue? Nov 10 19:00:52 didnt want to format Nov 10 19:00:57 i pressed.. format Nov 10 19:01:07 it worked for lik 24 hours Nov 10 19:01:10 ... nothin Nov 10 19:01:14 no EXT3 Nov 10 19:01:50 what port should i use? Nov 10 19:01:52 8080? Nov 10 19:02:05 that's up to you man Nov 10 19:02:09 ah oki Nov 10 19:03:00 how some hard drives can not be formatted with the linksys web interface Nov 10 19:03:07 eh Nov 10 19:03:17 *btw some hard drives can not be formatted with the linksys web interface Nov 10 19:03:30 one option is to format them with your PC as ext3 Nov 10 19:04:01 especially ones that are like over 250GB Nov 10 19:04:15 seem to give problems Nov 10 19:05:04 there is instructions on how to get the linksys web interface format thing to work also though here: http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Unslung/FailedFormatFix Nov 10 19:05:21 if you are familiar with linux though, I'd suggest you consider another firmware like slugos Nov 10 19:08:47 i tryd everthing Nov 10 19:08:49 :( Nov 10 19:09:05 see if that wiki page doesn't help you them Nov 10 19:09:10 http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/Unslung/FailedFormatFix Nov 10 19:09:28 or do like I said and try formatting it with your PC Nov 10 19:09:40 if neither of those work Nov 10 19:09:51 come back here and ask and I'll try to help you get going Nov 10 19:09:59 or someone else will Nov 10 19:10:22 like I said though Nov 10 19:10:33 if you know linux you can solve all your problems by just using the SlugOS firmware Nov 10 19:10:42 which -will- be able to format your hd Nov 10 19:11:19 slugos also runs better, and has better transfer speeds over the linksys/unslung firmware Nov 10 19:11:42 ye have a new HDD Nov 10 19:11:47 smaller than the old one Nov 10 19:11:57 so im tryin it with that one again Nov 10 19:12:14 yea, I believe the linksys format tool has an issue with drives over 250GB Nov 10 19:12:38 it was 200 gig Nov 10 19:12:46 close enough Nov 10 19:14:16 once again though Nov 10 19:14:21 you can always format with your PC Nov 10 19:14:47 ya i did Nov 10 19:15:01 with.. idk.. some tool to format it in ext3 Nov 10 19:15:10 did a swap and everythin ^^ Nov 10 19:15:33 but nvm ill try with that new one Nov 10 19:16:02 the swap may have been what messed you up Nov 10 19:16:11 I'm not sure but I think linksys expects one partition Nov 10 19:16:15 and one partition only Nov 10 19:16:53 afaik, it does not use swap Nov 10 19:17:19 that I may be wrong on though Nov 10 19:19:32 ok Nov 10 19:35:41 test Nov 10 20:12:46 hm cant find the disk Nov 10 20:13:29 well the interface doesnt^^ Nov 10 20:24:17 so.. found.. formatting... Nov 10 21:07:40 hm takes pretty long to format 4 GB hdd Nov 10 21:28:52 if its still going sto Nov 10 21:29:00 just go to a diffent page Nov 10 21:29:03 unplug the hd Nov 10 21:29:06 plug it back in Nov 10 21:29:09 go back to the format page Nov 10 21:29:13 see if it says formatted Nov 10 21:34:31 ok it works Nov 10 21:34:47 i did now the unslung stuff Nov 10 21:35:03 with /sbin/unslung disk2 .. new PW... Nov 10 21:35:12 and now rebooting but it takes pretty long to boot :s Nov 10 21:37:22 "9 times out of 10 I have already read that page and did not understand it" Nov 10 21:37:32 I have like the same thing. Nov 10 21:38:37 I would rtfm but sometimes it does not get to me, Nov 10 21:39:20 :) Nov 10 21:39:40 some have vague language that is general and does not meet my situation. Nov 10 21:39:55 im just following the manual Nov 10 21:40:22 Like When you install opt for slugos, I had no clue what to do with it! Nov 10 21:40:36 im not that far ^^ Nov 10 21:42:20 well I would be at zero if DrJ did not help me. Nov 10 21:43:28 Sto^: DrJ and DogBoy were talking about how I always come in to irc for help... Nov 10 21:44:19 argh... nslu bootin for so long :s Nov 10 21:45:26 what firmware? Nov 10 21:46:58 slug Nov 10 21:47:03 6.8 Nov 10 21:47:29 oh, yeah that takes a while sometimes, Nov 10 21:47:47 ha! found it. bootstrap, that artical is immpossable for me to understand Nov 10 21:47:50 Why 6.8? 6.10 is released. Nov 10 21:48:38 uh 6.8 is higher the 6.10 :P Nov 10 21:48:46 then* Nov 10 21:49:04 z Nov 10 21:49:06 ? Nov 10 21:49:13 remember 6.0 6.1 6.2 6.3 Nov 10 21:49:15 ... Nov 10 21:49:25 6.8 6.9 7.0 Nov 10 21:49:42 Yes. 6.8, 6.9 (not released, then 6.10 Nov 10 21:49:43 so 6.8> 6.10 Nov 10 21:50:07 And we may release 6.11 or 6.12 in the future, or jump to 7.0 or 7.1 . Nov 10 21:50:15 even 6.8> 6.1000000 Nov 10 21:50:25 and 6.8=6.8000000000 Nov 10 21:50:36 They're not decimal numbers, they're version numbers. Nov 10 21:50:43 wha Nov 10 21:50:52 ha ha the jokes on me!! Nov 10 21:51:08 If you like, you can think of it as "6.08" and "6.10" Nov 10 21:51:32 fool me once shame on me, Nov 10 21:51:38 fool me twice Nov 10 21:51:45 ... Nov 10 21:53:26 wait even if it is a version number wouldent 6.8 > 6.10 Nov 10 21:53:45 as 8 is still biger then 1 Nov 10 21:54:17 well whatever that why I go by the dates! Nov 10 21:56:09 hey arthur92710 Nov 10 21:56:23 what I was trying to suggest to you earlier was that if you want to learn linux you should try a virtual machine Nov 10 21:58:22 so..installing 6.10 Nov 10 21:58:24 :) Nov 10 22:00:19 6.10 fixes at least one of the sources of failures to format large devices (the root cause is buried in Linksys' proprietary code, which makes it difficult to track down and very difficult to fix). Nov 10 22:00:55 Frankly for the best peripheral suppot, SlugOS is the best choice, but you have to give up the Linksys GUI and built-in stuff. Nov 10 22:09:16 what is the telnet command do reboot Nov 10 22:11:28 Unslung? Do_Reboot or DO_Reboot (case is important) Nov 10 22:11:47 Or just use the web interface to reboot it. Nov 10 22:13:02 weird nslu Nov 10 22:13:41 how can i make it boot faster? Nov 10 22:19:47 de-underclock it. Nov 10 22:20:06 see the wiki Nov 10 22:31:11 it boots normal when no HDD is pluged in Nov 10 22:31:23 but takes forever when its pluged on Nov 10 22:34:57 Is it "unslung"? Nov 10 22:35:07 not yet Nov 10 22:35:47 Ok. Probably won't be any faster. But you won't boot very often, so not a big issue. Nov 10 23:47:34 : I dont get why people make such a big deal of lossing the Linksys GUI, It plain sucks! Slugos is way better, and if you need a GUI you can use smaba's swat Nov 10 23:48:41 what about it? Nov 10 23:48:56 ? Nov 10 23:49:38