**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Oct 28 02:59:57 2006 Oct 28 03:10:41 * chouimat|ibook is back. Oct 28 07:46:40 good morning all Oct 28 08:01:08 ~botmail for koen broken in which way? Oct 28 08:01:46 zecke: just run it and you'll see Oct 28 08:02:07 zecke: hint: rev 814 isn't the latest rev Oct 28 08:14:43 mhhh can someone suggest me a (meybe graphic) tool to show differences on two revision on a local copy of mtn oe tree ? Oct 28 08:15:16 'mtn diff' ? Oct 28 08:16:26 and to see the hotostory of revisions ? Oct 28 08:16:37 list history of revision Oct 28 08:16:42 'mtn diff -r one -r two' ? Oct 28 08:16:48 'mtn log' ? Oct 28 08:16:58 gremlin[it]: see http://venge.net/monotone/monotone.html Oct 28 08:17:02 thanks koen ... Oct 28 08:17:42 i'm noticing there is no more difference in kernel for StrongArm and for PXA ... Oct 28 08:25:02 03koen 07org.oe.dev * rf36e897b... 10/ (1 packages/busybox/busybox_1.2.2.bb): busybox: add 1.2.2, needs further testing, so it has a negative default preference Oct 28 08:34:23 so mickey|zzZZzz is working on a startrek phone :-) Oct 28 08:36:25 gtkLCARS Oct 28 08:37:22 03koen 07org.oe.dev * ra89f7dd0... 10/ (1 classes/base.bbclass classes/package.bbclass): Oct 28 08:37:22 base.bbclass, package.bbclass: don destrucively set RDEPENDS and RRECOMMENDS, from Poky Oct 28 08:37:22 * poky rev 823: 'package.bbclass: depchains: don't -destructively- set the pkg's RRECOMMENDS.' Oct 28 08:37:22 * poky rev 824: 'base.bbclass: depchains: don't -destructively- set the pkg's RRECOMMENDS.' Oct 28 08:44:03 man, spelling isn't my forte today Oct 28 08:55:47 hey there Oct 28 08:55:55 hey blaster8 Oct 28 08:55:59 does OE have any way of producing an initramfs? Oct 28 08:57:53 people have used it for that, but I don't have the details Oct 28 09:00:17 Probably should work out some way of doing that Oct 28 09:00:42 BusyBox static linked against uClibc, mdev producing a dynamic /dev directory before root partition mount Oct 28 09:00:47 that sort of thing Oct 28 09:01:09 that's be nice Oct 28 09:01:28 it's entirely possible - just an upheaval (more build time) Oct 28 09:01:37 uclibc needs to get fixed first in oe :( Oct 28 09:01:47 GCC 4.1 issues? or what? Oct 28 09:01:52 or .29 needs to get released, whichever comes first Oct 28 09:02:01 .29 NEEDS to be released Oct 28 09:02:06 like seriously Oct 28 09:02:08 ;) Oct 28 09:02:13 blaster8: the uclibc recipe has been 'slugos-ed' Oct 28 09:02:20 quality Oct 28 09:02:27 it's so arcane and underdocumented Oct 28 09:02:39 I spent 3 days trying to figure it all out Oct 28 09:02:45 sheesh Oct 28 09:02:55 When 0.9.29 is out, I'll look at it Oct 28 09:03:47 if anyone suggests 'gplv2 only' on the uclibc list..... Oct 28 09:04:01 then nothing will ever happen again Oct 28 09:04:16 it's already been 2 months since the last commit :( Oct 28 09:04:43 sorry, that's not true Oct 28 09:05:06 I'm eagerly awaiting the nptl branches to land Oct 28 09:05:12 same here Oct 28 09:05:33 it's so damn close to being a drop-in for glibc on small systems Oct 28 09:06:16 ".30 will be the NPTL merge" Oct 28 09:06:56 hehe: arm todo list "recruit jbowler and integrate thumb support" Oct 28 09:07:05 if only Oct 28 09:16:22 with EABI thumb support should be a lot better Oct 28 09:16:32 since ARM is paying csl to make it default Oct 28 09:16:55 csl? Oct 28 09:17:17 CodeSourcery Oct 28 09:17:44 paul brook, daniel jacobowitz, mark mitchel, etc Oct 28 09:19:44 koen: eta? next year some time? Oct 28 09:20:11 on .30? Oct 28 09:20:48 eta on EABI thumb support coming somewhere near mainstream Oct 28 09:21:43 it should already be in mainstream Oct 28 09:21:51 EABI mandates thumb-interwork :) Oct 28 09:21:57 glibc 2.5, you mean? Oct 28 09:22:09 2.3.7, 2.4 and 2.5 Oct 28 09:22:42 ok, cool - and given that Ubuntu 7.04 is releasing with glibc 2.5, I suppose that's coming quite soon Oct 28 09:22:43 ? Oct 28 09:23:09 where 'soon' is 'some months ago', yes Oct 28 09:23:22 months is fine :) Oct 28 09:23:40 I'm going to be doing a blitz on this next summer Oct 28 09:24:24 I want to get all the EABI toolchain bugs fixed or worked around before x-mas :) Oct 28 09:24:53 cool Oct 28 09:25:25 unfortunately, glibc is still a bit of a monster Oct 28 09:25:34 'a bit'? Oct 28 09:25:35 but at least it works, sometime Oct 28 09:26:00 I had a brief flash of insanity and proposed trying newlib Oct 28 09:26:25 why? Oct 28 09:26:33 it's oldlib anyway, now Oct 28 09:27:06 it is? Oct 28 09:27:15 it seemed quite active a few weeks ago Oct 28 09:27:20 oh ok Oct 28 09:27:28 their releases are quite infrequent Oct 28 09:29:08 I got scared out by the thoughts of 'yet another c lib' and 'yet another crazy buildsystem' Oct 28 09:31:24 * koen is moderately happy with the new templates at http://www.openembedded.org/bonsai/view/scm/3/ Oct 28 09:33:57 * gremlin[it] think : too much dashed lines :) Oct 28 09:34:24 koen: nice look Oct 28 09:35:59 the 'description' has a more natural layout now Oct 28 09:38:29 hi everyone Oct 28 09:39:30 hey nicolasfr Oct 28 09:39:51 my kernel is booting! Oct 28 09:40:02 but stops at "error unable to open fifo: no such file or directory" Oct 28 09:40:24 that looks like userspace Oct 28 09:40:33 (no idea on the error) Oct 28 09:40:49 koen: yes. Maybe I have screwed /dev or something like that Oct 28 10:08:23 hey pH5 Oct 28 10:08:48 hey koen Oct 28 10:10:06 hi Oct 28 10:18:20 good morning Oct 28 10:18:38 hi Oct 28 10:20:01 mickeyl: thanks to the latest python-gtk I nearly have finished adapting this for the zaurus (as an applet): http://www.emperorlinux.com/images/contrib/wirelessscan.png Oct 28 10:20:16 hey mickeyl Oct 28 10:20:42 they have made python bindings to iwtools and wpa_supplicant Oct 28 10:20:52 nicolasfr: glad to hear it works Oct 28 10:21:04 nicolasfr: cool. got a URL for that? Oct 28 10:21:15 mickeyl: stop posting teasers in your blog! Oct 28 10:21:17 ;) Oct 28 10:21:22 koen: hehehe Oct 28 10:21:45 mickeyl: http://downloads.emperorlinux.com/contrib/ Oct 28 10:22:08 nicolasfr: ok, i'll look into adding these bindings Oct 28 10:23:05 " * the display size rarely changes (only few people use their mobile phone applications to display via remote-X)" Oct 28 10:23:08 * koen raises hand Oct 28 10:23:39 koen: but we all know that you are mutant Oct 28 10:23:47 :) Oct 28 10:25:00 koen: sure, i thought about you and me, however it's more important it looks good on the phone. it may look a bit odd if scaled, but nowhere as bad as maemo ;) Oct 28 10:25:03 [scaled] Oct 28 10:25:30 my secret goal is to be able to port it to QVGA in a couple of days Oct 28 10:25:34 (read: openezx) Oct 28 10:25:38 :) Oct 28 10:25:39 secret to my customer, not to you :)) Oct 28 10:26:01 or 640x480 (clamshells) Oct 28 10:26:25 I'm afraid it won't make much sense on a PDA Oct 28 10:26:39 the phone display is incredibly sharp Oct 28 10:26:41 dashboard widgets? Oct 28 10:27:04 mickeyl: your pdas are sharp as well ;) Oct 28 10:27:08 heh Oct 28 10:27:29 the display has the same resolution as a clamshell zaurus, but half of the size Oct 28 10:27:40 300dpi? Oct 28 10:27:42 400dpi? Oct 28 10:27:58 no idea offhand... let me try to lookup the datasheet Oct 28 10:28:22 300 dpi = 'half(surface area)' Oct 28 10:28:53 400 dpi = 'quarter(surface area)' Oct 28 10:29:29 hmm Oct 28 10:29:40 2.8" Oct 28 10:29:42 VGA Oct 28 10:29:53 dimensions Oct 28 10:29:59 52.9x73.7x3.4 Oct 28 10:30:53 mickeyl: 900/1800/1900 gsm? Oct 28 10:31:20 koen: with a display of that size, we have to reduce the UI very much. Oct 28 10:31:22 mickeyl: that gives me ~220 dpi Oct 28 10:31:36 hrw|work: *nod* Oct 28 10:31:37 mickeyl: which is about the same as a clamshell iirc Oct 28 10:32:03 mickeyl: right, it's essentially a qvga gui, but with sharper graphics Oct 28 10:32:17 koen: yep Oct 28 10:32:28 can't wait to see the first highres image on it... Oct 28 10:32:38 mickeyl: will it cost 500 EUR or more? Oct 28 10:32:50 hrw|work: IIRC (don't nail me on that) less Oct 28 10:33:41 hrw|work: besides... not wanting to encourages hopes, but there may be some superdiscounts for developers Oct 28 10:33:57 if so, i will think about you guys first Oct 28 10:34:12 mickeyl: sorry, 2.8" makes 285 DPI Oct 28 10:34:21 koen: right. that sounds more like it Oct 28 10:35:06 the 73.7mm is probably the complete unit, not the actual screen Oct 28 10:35:21 s/screen/visible tft/ Oct 28 10:35:50 right, that's the outline Oct 28 10:36:19 mickeyl: no problem for me. I'm used to be broke Oct 28 10:36:23 hehe Oct 28 10:37:42 mickeyl: so probably never mind how much it will costs or how cheap it will be for devs I will have to think few times before deciding to get or not Oct 28 10:40:11 *nod* let's see how this all works out. I'm glad when I actually can think about how to get some devices to you guys, because that means we're done... and we are far from that at this point of time :D Oct 28 10:40:13 anyway I have to think how to get into fosdem2007.. train->berlin plane->fosdem probably Oct 28 10:40:32 sounds like a 3h tri Oct 28 10:40:33 p Oct 28 10:41:01 mickeyl: poznan->berlin->fosdem or poznan->warsaw->fosdem Oct 28 10:44:16 ~change 77 gbp to pln Oct 28 10:44:22 77.00 Pound (GBP) makes 444.992 Zloty (PLN) (from http://www.xe.com/) Oct 28 10:44:50 so 150 EUR for whole trip (poznan-berlin-brussels and back) Oct 28 10:45:32 + place for sleeping Oct 28 10:46:05 sure Oct 28 10:46:49 hmm.. no good backtrip from berlin... Oct 28 10:54:12 hey psokolovsky Oct 28 10:54:24 Hi! Oct 28 11:04:06 bbl Oct 28 11:35:49 koen: year passed since last flamewar on oesf about 'oe forums' Oct 28 11:39:49 excellent... please keep it that way... Oct 28 11:41:39 OT: anyone of you know how i can fix man pages displaying like Oct 28 11:41:45 ESC1mtitle Oct 28 11:41:45 etc. Oct 28 11:41:56 somehow the escape codes are no longer translated in my terminal Oct 28 11:42:09 mickeyl: it would be good to finally get them s/oe forums/oesf forums/ for our PR Oct 28 11:42:12 wrong TERM? Oct 28 11:42:41 both TERM=xterm. on one station it works Oct 28 11:42:44 on one it's fscked Oct 28 11:53:47 hrw|work: s/oesf/msf/ and s/oe forums/msf forums/ Oct 28 11:54:26 dial 'm' for moron Oct 28 11:55:29 koen: offroadgeek is not a moron, his intentions were good but he had some IRL problems to take care off so he never finished what he started w/ oes.org Oct 28 11:56:19 CoreDump|home: kergoth told him that he shouldn't use 'openembedded' when offroadgeek asked Oct 28 11:56:25 CoreDump|home: and he did anyway Oct 28 11:56:48 CoreDump|home: so, yes, 'moron' Oct 28 11:57:09 probably kergoth was his usual "friendly" and "polite" self that day ;) Oct 28 11:57:47 I guess all that will be over when we get our TM and send a cease and desist Oct 28 11:57:55 * koen is looking forward to that Oct 28 11:57:56 lol Oct 28 11:58:53 whatever you may think these forums deliver a great service to the community. w/o them there would _be_ no community Oct 28 11:59:17 it's not a community I care about Oct 28 11:59:25 well, I do Oct 28 11:59:43 a distro w/o users is a pointless waste of time Oct 28 12:00:04 koen: I can say that there is no users community which you care about... Oct 28 12:00:24 hrw|work: and you would be wrong if you say that Oct 28 12:00:52 CoreDump|home: I would very much like a distro that didn't have 'OMG ZAURUS LOL!!!!11!!!' users Oct 28 12:01:22 koen: I feel the same, but such a thing is not possible. Oct 28 12:02:03 just check out some typical windows forum and compare it to $RANDOM_OSS_FORUM. I prefer the latter Oct 28 12:02:16 koen: prepared angstrom faq 1st entry already? Oct 28 12:02:18 koen: hmm Oct 28 12:02:27 1. Why Angstrom does not provide OPIE? Oct 28 12:02:27 hey zecke Oct 28 12:02:42 hrw|work: well, that q is a no-brainer =) Oct 28 12:02:47 CoreDump|home: forums are for users, not for developers Oct 28 12:03:05 it can be a place where devs and users meet Oct 28 12:03:17 but mostly for users yeah Oct 28 12:03:21 and for oesf, it is full of people that just won't that advice Oct 28 12:03:25 "yes, but..." Oct 28 12:03:43 "I know it's incompatible, but I tried it anyway and it doesn't work, why?" Oct 28 12:04:19 zecke: bonsai_update works for mtn repos Oct 28 12:04:23 heh that's what users do =) Oct 28 12:11:06 eeeekkk... "-e log_check: Matched keyword: [Cannot find package]" when trying to do run.do_rootfs Oct 28 12:11:29 but if I grep for "Cannot find package" in the logs then there is no match :( Oct 28 12:11:53 nicolasfr: look at log.do_rootfs Oct 28 12:12:22 hrw|work: yes but sure 100% there is no match in log.do_rootfs Oct 28 12:12:33 nicolasfr: ubuntu? Oct 28 12:12:39 koen: right! Oct 28 12:12:43 edgy Oct 28 12:12:51 nicolasfr: don't use 'dash' as your shell Oct 28 12:13:03 or fix OE to not use bashisms :) Oct 28 12:13:36 my shell is bash Oct 28 12:14:05 and /bin/sh points to bash as well? Oct 28 12:14:21 ;) Oct 28 12:14:26 good point!!! Oct 28 12:14:31 koen: if we use bashisms then we need to use /bin/bash Oct 28 12:14:39 hrw|work: right Oct 28 12:14:45 then why we do not do it? Oct 28 12:14:53 hrw|work: no idea Oct 28 12:14:54 damn, I would kill myself for such bugs if you were not here Oct 28 12:15:02 hrw|work: I suspect a few bashisms crept in Oct 28 12:15:09 I tought I was going crazy Oct 28 12:15:20 nicolasfr: NAiL spent some *weeks* on figuring that out Oct 28 12:15:47 btw never heard of "dash" before this... Oct 28 12:16:11 it's some funky ubuntu thing to make booting faster Oct 28 12:16:21 koen: debian uses it as well :) Oct 28 12:17:30 http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1535 Oct 28 12:17:50 who want to fix it? Oct 28 12:18:16 koen: fishslap me please Oct 28 12:18:27 * koen fishslaps zecke Oct 28 12:18:36 damn Oct 28 12:18:46 * koen is craving for some fish right now Oct 28 12:19:09 * hrw|work want free time Oct 28 12:19:21 works better now ;) Oct 28 12:19:28 thanks! Oct 28 12:19:57 according to my work schedule I have copious amounts of free time next week Oct 28 12:20:25 which have to be used for traveling or eating, sadly Oct 28 12:22:36 koen: bonsai is fixed Oct 28 12:32:00 hrw|work: could you send me the account data for the google statistics stuff? Oct 28 12:38:11 to include in template? Oct 28 12:44:20 zecke: code to include in template? Oct 28 12:47:12 hrw|work: no, to browse statistics Oct 28 12:47:48 zecke: your google account should be enough Oct 28 12:48:01 zecke: and to include bonsai in the statistics :) Oct 28 12:49:55 I left meta-toolchain running overnight. It almost completed, but chocked on some of the cleanup stuff near the end. Oct 28 12:50:08 koen: added Oct 28 12:50:23 it does stufff to remove broken .la files, unwanted housekeeping files and some other stuff Oct 28 12:50:43 but it refers directly to some 'arm-linux' directories Oct 28 12:51:02 is meta-toolchain only supposed to be used with arm? Oct 28 12:51:33 zecke: freyther@inf.fu-berlin.de is your account Oct 28 12:51:59 tkp: if it does then it is broken Oct 28 12:52:12 wouldn't it be better to use some variable rather than specifically refering to 'arm-linux' directories Oct 28 12:52:33 yes Oct 28 12:52:50 ok, well I'll see if I can fix it up Oct 28 12:55:39 zecke: google-analytics code added into bonsai Oct 28 12:56:36 tkp: could you try http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/tmp/no-arm.diff ? Oct 28 12:57:08 heh.. you beat me to it! Oct 28 12:57:10 give me 5 Oct 28 13:00:56 nearly.. not quite Oct 28 13:01:08 when it does 'cd ${SDK_OUTPUT}/${prefix}/${TARGET_SYS}/lib/pkgconfig' Oct 28 13:01:21 well, there is no pkgconfig sibdirectory Oct 28 13:02:10 * koen hears a if [ -e ${SDK_OUTPUT}/${prefix}/${TARGET_SYS}/lib/pkgconfig'] coming Oct 28 13:03:10 also, I still see arm in there: Oct 28 13:03:12 sed -i 's%${STAGING_DIR}%/usr/local/arm/oe%g' "$f" Oct 28 13:03:50 that should probably be '${TARGET_ARCH}' Oct 28 13:07:12 koen: distros need to define binutils-cross-sdk...' Oct 28 13:08:09 I have 'PREFERRED_VERSION_binutils-cross-sdk' and 'PREFERRED_VERSION_gcc-cross-sdk' Oct 28 13:08:29 I have it working now... I'll do up a patch Oct 28 13:09:33 hrw|work: define in what way? Oct 28 13:10:20 koen: PREF_VER set Oct 28 13:10:46 http://rafb.net/paste/results/w5F2mM58.html Oct 28 13:11:09 although my text editor did some funny tab-whitespace conversion, so it's a little longer than it should be Oct 28 13:11:22 ~lart your editor Oct 28 13:11:22 * ibot pulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps your editor Oct 28 13:16:30 hmm... not convinced about this toolchain Oct 28 13:16:39 some of the libs seem a little broken Oct 28 13:17:09 ./libdl.so.2 => Segmentation fault Oct 28 13:17:30 a couple of others seem to segfault too Oct 28 13:25:14 pH5: dbus-glinc 0.72 errors out with a lot of errors like this: Oct 28 13:25:15 | In file included from dbus-gmain.c:27:| ../dbus/dbus-glib-lowlevel.h:28:23: error: dbus/dbus.h: No such file or directory Oct 28 13:25:47 pH5: It seems that it can't find the headers, which are present on my host and in staging Oct 28 13:26:33 I'm trying to setup oe to use this toolchain now... following the docs on the wiki Oct 28 13:26:59 hrw|work, I am about to push updates for the omap1-2.6.18 kernel so it can build old or E abi kernel Oct 28 13:27:07 mtn merge Oct 28 13:27:09 it tells me to add a few paths to PATH, specifically, BITBAKE_PATH, TOOLCHAIN and HOSTTOOLS Oct 28 13:27:11 oops Oct 28 13:27:25 TOOLCHAIN points to the bin directory of my new toolchain... Oct 28 13:27:33 but what is HOSTTOOLS? Oct 28 13:27:41 pkg-config, file, make ;) Oct 28 13:27:48 uic, moc Oct 28 13:28:12 ko Oct 28 13:33:44 03crofton 07org.oe.dev * rd7a41687... 10/ (4 files in 3 dirs): linux-omap1-2.6.18-omap1 : Add support for building EABI kernel. Oct 28 13:33:49 03crofton 07org.oe.dev * r9bb5aacf... 10/ (1 conf/distro/openomap.conf): Oct 28 13:33:49 openomap.conf : Convert to EABI distro. Oct 28 13:33:49 * Update preferred providers. Oct 28 13:36:02 Crofton: is that the same solution as the OZ and handhelds kernels? Oct 28 13:36:10 no Oct 28 13:36:16 I couldn't make it work ... Oct 28 13:36:33 hmmm Oct 28 13:36:37 appending on the end of the defconfig didn't work for me Oct 28 13:38:11 Crofton: funky omap kernels :( Oct 28 13:38:28 if I get bored I will revisit it Oct 28 13:39:15 ~lart amd for lack of dual amd64 boards Oct 28 13:39:15 * ibot takes out a cattle prod and gives amd a good jolt for lack of dual amd64 boards Oct 28 13:39:32 2x amd64 2GHz is cheaper then amd64x2 2GHz Oct 28 13:40:14 more ... u can have a 2cpu x 2core :) Oct 28 13:41:30 gremlin[it]: but athlon64 are not SMP ready... Oct 28 13:41:31 03koen 07org.oe.dev * r15b7eadc... 10/ (1 conf/distro/angstrom-2007.1.conf): angstrom: add pref versions for sdk stuff as well Oct 28 13:42:09 hrw|work sure u have to take an couple of opteron ... Oct 28 13:43:07 gremlin[it]: cheapest opteron is near of price of amd64X2 Oct 28 13:43:57 anyone know what HOST_TOOLS is supposed to point to? Oct 28 13:44:15 yes but it's dual core too ... Oct 28 13:45:01 gremlin[it]: sure. Oct 28 13:45:55 the low performance opteron and athlon cost about the same ... but the motherboard and memory cost a lot much :( Oct 28 13:46:26 yep Oct 28 13:47:42 i bought on ebay a new (not used) athlon64X2 4800 with 1Mx2 of L2 cache :) ... and i'm happy (for 300EUR) Oct 28 13:49:14 gremlin[it]: I plan to spend ~150EUR for mainboard and cpu Oct 28 13:49:47 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svLdboZdfQ0 Oct 28 13:49:48 lol Oct 28 13:49:48 i have a athlon 3200 (2Ghz 1 core) to sell :) Oct 28 13:50:41 zecke: MACHINE=sun-blackbox :) Oct 28 13:51:14 hrw|work: fwiw, go w/ core2duo. It's cheaper and has a _lot_ more oomph than any opteron / AMD (at least for the time beein) Oct 28 13:52:19 oomph ??? Oct 28 13:53:25 CoreDump|home: cheapest core2 duo (1.86GHz) is 753 pln, athlon64 3000+ (1.8GHz) is 274 pln Oct 28 13:53:38 CoreDump|home: 'small' difference? Oct 28 13:53:55 ops. 789 for box Oct 28 13:54:25 hrw|work: trust me, that c2d sooo blows that X3000 out of the water. It even beats the latest AMD FX thingy Oct 28 13:54:28 CoreDump|home: and core2duo == ddr2 == memory to buy Oct 28 13:54:39 right Oct 28 13:54:47 CoreDump|home: maybe it does. but I do not have cash for it Oct 28 13:55:23 yeah, just saying ;) Oct 28 13:55:43 i don't think so ... a true 64bit unit (that also usee all the registers of an amd64) really run fast anc cold :) Oct 28 13:56:08 * zecke is still happy with his Quad Xeon pizza boxes Oct 28 13:56:24 and ddr2 over ddr is no more than 10% better in usefull application ... Oct 28 13:57:01 unit -> linux with 64bit kernel + 64bit applications Oct 28 13:59:24 * CoreDump|home 's box run 32Bit software only Oct 28 14:06:32 zecke, so now they use youtube to spread commercials .. tsts Oct 28 14:33:41 morning Oct 28 15:02:37 Finally I have "angstromized" my webpad: http://www.geek-fr.com/doku.php/blog:bootstrap_image_booting_on_the_tatung_webpad Oct 28 15:03:52 nice pad Oct 28 15:04:41 I bought it a few months ago on ebay, but version of WinCE it shipped with does not support WPA wlan Oct 28 15:05:19 and its x86 so hard to get wince soft Oct 28 15:05:40 I managed to build a WinCE 5 image but I could not find drivers for the touchscreen :( I hope I will have more luck with linux Oct 28 15:27:48 RP: is there any reason to update to 2.6.17 from 2.6.16 on SL-Cxx00? Any important changes? Oct 28 15:29:21 CoreDump|home: not many Oct 28 15:29:31 asoc from 2.6.17 was added to 2.6.16 Oct 28 15:30:36 * chouimat|ibook is toying with OE and a nice SH4 based device .... Oct 28 15:30:41 hrw|work: causing one certain sound bug. One for which Xora has a fix somewhere =) Oct 28 15:30:55 CoreDump|home: 8khz one? Oct 28 15:31:02 yeah Oct 28 15:31:44 also hostap_cs doesn't survive suspend / resume Oct 28 15:31:52 with 2617? Oct 28 15:31:57 yes Oct 28 15:32:24 will have to check it one day Oct 28 15:41:01 'The load average on the server is too high' - kernel.org overloaded... Oct 28 15:44:00 nice Oct 28 15:52:32 chouimat|ibook: diebold voting machine? Oct 28 15:52:42 koen dreamcast :) Oct 28 15:52:58 :) Oct 28 15:53:16 koen I got the keyboard for it yesterday Oct 28 15:53:47 chouimat|ibook: how it boot into linux? hacked cd drive? Oct 28 15:53:59 hrw|work: normal cd Oct 28 15:54:48 oh.. I was thinking that it has segaCD (gdrom iirc) and no normal cd supported Oct 28 15:55:13 hrw|work: it has a gdrom but it can read normal cd ... you can even play audiocd Oct 28 15:55:25 ah. Oct 28 15:55:31 ok bbl later need to go in the storm to fetch some food ... Oct 28 15:59:15 koen: did you have to tweak many things to build gpe image for x86 target? I keep on having strange errors... Oct 28 15:59:36 nicolasfr: iirc I removed gpe-announce and two other things Oct 28 15:59:47 gpe-autostarter, that is Oct 28 16:00:16 procps was broken for me, so I couldn't use gpe-dm to start X Oct 28 16:01:08 building breaks earlier: /opt/OE/build/tmp/work/i686-angstrom-linux/gcc-cross-4.1.1-r7/gcc-4.1.1/libstdc++-v3/libsupc++/del_op.cc:46: multiple definition of `operator delete(void*)' Oct 28 16:01:20 when building libsdl-qpe Oct 28 16:02:14 qpe ?!?! Oct 28 16:03:20 I think recently some rdepends has been added in OE which make building qpe when building x11 Oct 28 16:03:36 same thing with target arm but there it builds fine Oct 28 16:03:39 gcc-qpe-cross Oct 28 16:10:27 only 3 days left before opie gets moved to obsolete/ Oct 28 16:11:14 03koen 07org.oe.dev * re0255e80... 10/ (1 conf/distro/angstrom-2007.1.conf): angstrom: nobody wants to support either an opie-based image nor opie itself for angstrom, so lets remove the opie bits and select appropriate defaults for xine and sdl Oct 28 16:14:25 damn shame Oct 28 16:15:02 one bonus will users get Oct 28 16:15:06 let's use the experience and creating something better Oct 28 16:15:15 parsing time will improve Oct 28 16:15:16 s/creating/create/ Oct 28 16:17:09 crap Oct 28 16:17:22 yay for spurious local changes getting committed Oct 28 16:17:58 koen: I do not think that something new will appear similiar to opie Oct 28 16:18:25 I lack 'I' in GPE Oct 28 16:18:28 hrw|work: you mean 'based on qtopiaaaaargh' or 'nicely integrated'? Oct 28 16:18:46 GP*I*E Oct 28 16:18:55 lol Oct 28 16:19:08 now you have matchbox+gpe+rxvt+misc+other+crap Oct 28 16:19:32 where did I mention gpe? Oct 28 16:19:53 koen: I do not want to wait next 3-5 years Oct 28 16:20:20 koen: oops. I want to support OPIE in ansgtrom. Please let it wait for next week before decisions. Oct 28 16:20:43 psokolovsky_: opie doesn't have a maintainer in OE, so it will get moved to obsolete Oct 28 16:21:18 03coredump 07org.oe.oz354x * rd08e95cf... 10/ (1 conf/distro/openzaurus-3.5.4.2.conf): openzaurus-3.5.4.2.conf: Unb0rk feed lists for non-3.5.4.2 devices. Oct 28 16:21:19 All I would want for angstrom is a card applet, a wireless applet, and a *working* browser. For the rest the contacts and date application made by o-hand are really nice. Oct 28 16:21:29 koen, I want to propose my candidature for that, as noone better "equipped" stepped out. I'm preparing my proposal over this weekend. Oct 28 16:21:47 nicolasfr: *working* is nice word. Oct 28 16:21:49 03coredump 07org.oe.oz354x * rf1c7a180... 10/ (1 packages/altboot/altboot_1.1.0-wip.bb): altboot: Add 1.1.0-wip-20061028 Oct 28 16:22:00 nicolasfr: currently our pda users does not have any Oct 28 16:22:10 03coredump 07org.oe.dev * red6e3ddf... 10/ (1 packages/altboot/altboot_1.1.0-wip.bb): Oct 28 16:22:10 altboot: Add 1.1.0-wip-20061028: Oct 28 16:22:10 - Add setting ENABLE_DEBUGGIN [auto on off] to altbootctl Oct 28 16:22:10 - Add setting ENABLE_DEBUG_SHELL [on off] to altbootctl Oct 28 16:22:10 - Fixed a bug in dump_pref() Oct 28 16:22:17 03coredump 07org.oe.dev * r8605cce0... 10/ (5 files in 2 dirs): altboot: Update 0.0.0 version Oct 28 16:22:34 firefox 1.0 is obsolete, konqueror 2003 even more, dillo(2) was shit years ago.. Oct 28 16:22:45 gpe-minibrowser is.... useless Oct 28 16:22:50 ff 1.0.5 works very well Oct 28 16:23:03 netscape 2.0 works well too Oct 28 16:23:06 03koen 07org.oe.dev * r80203f8e... 10/ (1 conf/distro/angstrom-2007.1.conf): angstrom: lets not subject users to an untested busybox version right now :) Oct 28 16:23:12 CoreDump|home: we need to have it bumped to 1.0.8 atleast (secfixes) Oct 28 16:23:14 koen: ? Oct 28 16:23:26 hrw|work: responding to CoreDump|home Oct 28 16:23:48 koen: my first netscape was 4.0. And no, it didn't work well. Rather bad in fact Oct 28 16:23:50 koen: hehe, busybox 1.2.2 spits an error when compiling ;) Oct 28 16:24:13 nicolasfr: it compiled over here, but I still haven't tested it on a device :) Oct 28 16:24:55 more exactly unpacking error: cp: cannot stat `/opt/OE/org.openembedded.dev/packages/busybox/files/defconfig': No such file or directory Oct 28 16:25:16 nicolasfr: so add a defconfig for your configuration :) Oct 28 16:25:38 koen@bitbake:~/OE/monotone/org.openembedded.dev/packages/busybox$ ls busybox-1.2.2/angstrom/ Oct 28 16:25:38 defconfig Oct 28 16:25:55 damn Oct 28 16:26:00 I mickeyl'ed ;) Oct 28 16:26:45 hehe Oct 28 16:27:05 03koen 07org.oe.dev * rbd6e041d... 10/ (34 files in 7 dirs): busybox: add support files for 1.2.2 Oct 28 16:27:15 ;) Oct 28 16:33:07 03koen 07org.oe.dev * r3b312547... 10/ (1 packages/libxml/libxml2-native_2.6.10.bb): libxml2-native 2.6.10: fix SRC_URI Oct 28 16:41:20 morning all Oct 28 16:41:25 hi Oct 28 16:41:54 RP: hello! How was your trip? :-) Oct 28 16:42:03 hmm.. looks like I found nice board Oct 28 16:42:41 Mardy: Hi, it was quite tiring but it was good to meet some people :) Oct 28 16:44:51 ~lart GNUism Oct 28 16:44:51 * ibot shoots GNUism in his sleep Oct 28 16:45:39 hi RP Oct 28 16:48:01 hey RP Oct 28 16:49:15 Did I miss much? :) Oct 28 16:50:11 RP: gcc 5.2, kernel 2.7.13 and some other stuff Oct 28 16:50:49 koen: ;-) Oct 28 16:50:59 umbaumba 17.3 was released too - but only for spitz Oct 28 16:51:43 hrw|work: Sooner or later someone will have to call a package that ;-) Oct 28 16:52:15 RP: I will probably sooner or later create distro umbaumba Oct 28 16:53:12 17.3 as first release (OZ compatible private version without hacks in .dev) Oct 28 16:54:29 hrw|work: how do you like your spitz? Oct 28 16:56:21 koen: heavy, shitty keyboard Oct 28 16:56:38 c7x0 has better keyboard Oct 28 16:57:07 and I lack time to do something usefull with it Oct 28 16:57:13 darn 2.6.16 has the same alsa bug Oct 28 16:57:17 bittorrent machine Oct 28 16:57:20 CoreDump|home: 8khz? Oct 28 16:57:25 yes Oct 28 16:57:36 CoreDump|home: 2.6.16/.zo354x has same asoc as 2.6.17 Oct 28 16:57:45 * CoreDump|home sighs Oct 28 16:57:56 CoreDump|home: pester xora for newer asoc - they got it fixed iirc Oct 28 16:58:02 well, at least hostap_cs survives suspend / resume :) Oct 28 16:58:05 ;D Oct 28 16:58:42 hrw: yeah he has a patch and will commit it when he gets the chance Oct 28 16:59:06 cool Oct 28 16:59:18 so I will wait with oz 3.5.4.1 kernel update Oct 28 16:59:19 ;D Oct 28 16:59:37 good to have new excuse Oct 28 16:59:40 you better would. The hostap thing is a bitch, too Oct 28 16:59:55 CoreDump|home: update will be 2.6.16 Oct 28 17:00:10 oh, .1 is .15? Oct 28 17:00:35 .16 Oct 28 17:00:57 update = 2.6.16 + usb-warning-message + new-asoc + remove-cards-from-orinoco Oct 28 17:01:05 i c Oct 28 17:04:15 Added 14197 packages in 0 days, 0 hours, 5 minutes and 0 seconds Oct 28 17:04:28 multiple archs bloat up a repo pretty quickly Oct 28 17:05:11 hrw: any news from the OZ user working on feedbrowser? Oct 28 17:10:02 nope Oct 28 17:10:13 I think that we can forget him Oct 28 17:11:26 cu Oct 28 17:22:18 * JustinP likes his spitz's keyboard Oct 28 17:36:30 Any major changes to busybox? Oct 28 17:40:56 VoodooZ: it's a bugfix release Oct 28 17:41:21 hehe Oct 28 17:41:31 bugfix and busybox in the same sentence Oct 28 17:41:39 ~curse busybox sh Oct 28 17:41:50 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, busybox sh ! Oct 28 17:44:09 hehe Oct 28 18:17:22 koen: So you realy did it, opie is now removed form the angstrom distro. Even though it builds and works. Oct 28 18:21:37 goxboxlive: read the commit message Oct 28 18:22:25 i have read it Oct 28 18:26:08 so don't complain, but offer to maintain and support it Oct 28 18:28:16 koen: i would have been helping out if i could. But you know yourself that i dont have the skills to maintain such a huge thing so i guess i will have to build from a non up 2 date OE in the future :-) Oct 28 18:29:00 that's nonsense Oct 28 18:29:22 you can put those 4 lines in local.conf Oct 28 18:32:08 ok thx Oct 28 18:35:14 hi Oct 28 18:56:51 heh.. I read some of Hack&Dev pages and realised one thing Oct 28 18:57:02 I want devboards in OE instead of pda Oct 28 18:57:57 they use 'qt/c' Oct 28 19:01:08 hrw: which board? the cirrus arm based one? Oct 28 19:01:48 chouimat|ibook: I did not had experiences with devboard users communities yet but see pda users too annoying Oct 28 19:03:57 hrw: annoying?? come on ... they are morons ... well not all but those who whine the most are anyway :) Oct 28 19:04:25 ;) Oct 28 19:07:50 hrw: that's why they are called 'dev'boards :) Oct 28 19:08:55 there seem to be some whiney people on ppczone Oct 28 19:12:23 http://qtdeveloper.net/archives/2006/10/23/the-death-of-opie-is-greatly-exaggerated/ - finally posted Oct 28 19:18:21 hrw: posted where? Oct 28 19:20:44 hrw: and shame on you ignoring whining users requesting software that has been proven not to work and is discouraged by its maintainer! Oct 28 19:20:55 * koen coughs Oct 28 19:22:09 ;))) Oct 28 19:23:28 hrw: seriously, I don't see your comment on that page Oct 28 19:24:15 koen: probably need to be approved yet Oct 28 19:24:58 koen: http://pastebin.ca/226693 Oct 28 19:27:03 "if you are too stupid too read, I won't bother writing it down again" Oct 28 19:28:23 * Crofton_ hates xml parsers Oct 28 19:28:43 http://www.backlesslingerie.com/backless-lingerie-c-65.html Oct 28 19:28:54 interesting idea.. Oct 28 19:29:06 Crofton_: too bad there are so many of them Oct 28 19:29:34 yeah Oct 28 19:29:48 and none of them are small and simple Oct 28 19:29:59 Crofton: not even expat? Oct 28 19:30:20 that name keeps coming up Oct 28 19:30:58 should I try and teach myself expat in the next hour? Oct 28 19:34:16 Crofton_: if you are feeling bored: http://www.vivtek.com/expat/api.html Oct 28 19:34:47 I'm not bored, but I need to make some progress parsing xml Oct 28 19:35:13 and would prefer to get away from xerces, but want something that advances my embedded desires Oct 28 19:36:08 I wouldn't classify anything using xml as embedded ;) Oct 28 19:36:24 heh Oct 28 19:36:32 xml itself doesn't seem evil Oct 28 19:36:44 just the infrastructure needed to use it Oct 28 19:36:53 koen: qtopia and opie use xml Oct 28 19:37:13 and? Oct 28 19:37:33 28 21:56 < koen> I wouldn't classify anything using xml as embedded ;) Oct 28 19:37:40 before you know sun will call the blackbox as 'embedded' Oct 28 19:38:20 :) Oct 28 19:38:25 I saw their commercial Oct 28 19:41:50 * koen looks outside Oct 28 19:42:07 I think I can fit 3 blackboxes on the parking lot Oct 28 19:42:25 I will have to harass the neighbours to provide water Oct 28 19:43:35 The expat XML parser by James Clark is fairly small, written in C, runs on Unix or W32, and is, well, not very documented. Oct 28 19:43:43 water? Oct 28 19:44:01 water for cooling that sun stuff Oct 28 19:44:07 ah Oct 28 19:44:38 make that 2 blackboxen and a generator Oct 28 19:47:53 * CoreDump|home wonders why collie doesn't pass kernel init w/ 3.5.4.2 Oct 28 19:54:58 opie is not discouraged by its maintainer. Oct 28 19:55:15 opie is a community project, not just one leader Oct 28 19:57:04 and opie still works... *cough* Oct 28 19:58:06 opie uses ancient qt Oct 28 19:58:41 so Oct 28 19:59:12 well, a guy here tried to write an ap for opie, but he bought all the qt books for current stuff Oct 28 19:59:27 He was pretty annoyed he would have to learn two version of qt Oct 28 19:59:32 well, then he did not read the documentation Oct 28 19:59:49 he thought opie was based on qt Oct 28 19:59:57 it is Oct 28 20:00:02 the reality is opie is based on an older version of qt Oct 28 20:00:14 i dont see that as a problem Oct 28 20:00:16 which is not what he epected, so he wasted a bunch of his time Oct 28 20:00:31 I do, he never finished the project Oct 28 20:00:38 well, then he did not do good research Oct 28 20:01:07 ig he had done his reseacrh up front, he would have done the project for gpe Oct 28 20:01:13 or whatever it is called Oct 28 20:01:29 opie is bait and switch Oct 28 20:01:55 bait is qt, switch is qt from several version back, not compatible with what people are sing today Oct 28 20:02:31 i know people usign opie today. i know companies using qtopia 2 as well Oct 28 20:02:53 fine, have them support it Oct 28 20:02:54 road's vaporware handypc is based on qtopia 2 Oct 28 20:12:18 ljp: any idea when qtopia 4 might be available? end of the year or next year ? Oct 28 20:12:28 the GPL version Oct 28 20:12:56 i take it tinyxml is too big? Oct 28 20:13:44 thats a new one to me Oct 28 20:13:53 http://www.grinninglizard.com/tinyxml/ Oct 28 20:14:02 has a zlib license tho Oct 28 20:14:06 goodle knows all Oct 28 20:14:32 no bb file :) Oct 28 20:15:24 so? Oct 28 20:15:40 just an observation, not a hard thing to fix usually Oct 28 20:15:45 have you used it? Oct 28 20:16:07 needed it once for soemthing Oct 28 20:16:13 cant remember what Oct 28 20:16:44 It is written in OS independent C++. if that helps you any :) Oct 28 20:18:14 chouimat: before christmas Oct 28 20:18:34 2008? Oct 28 20:18:40 no Oct 28 20:19:05 what year? Oct 28 20:19:50 2112. Oct 28 20:20:17 thats faster then I supposed Oct 28 20:27:09 The current version of Qtopia Core Open Source Edition is 4.2.0. Oct 28 20:27:19 ~qtopia core Oct 28 20:27:21 somebody said qtopia core was qt/embedded. please don't support stupid marketing tricks. Oct 28 20:27:46 yeah they now have qtopia pda too Oct 28 20:27:53 or qt/c like hack&dev m^Hguys say Oct 28 20:28:07 emte: which is closed source since ever Oct 28 20:28:35 qtopia core is not open source Oct 28 20:28:43 err i mean it is open source Oct 28 20:29:44 odd the Qt/Windows Opensource is v 4.1.1 Oct 28 20:31:09 ftp://ftp.trolltech.com/qt/source/qt-win-opensource-src-4.2.1.zip Oct 28 20:31:10 ljp: qtopia core is. qtopia pda is not, qtopia phone is not Oct 28 20:31:19 home at last Oct 28 20:31:20 didnt know they ever released an open version for windows Oct 28 20:31:30 hi ggilbert Oct 28 20:31:42 ya, quite a while ago, in fact Oct 28 20:35:18 ljp: cool ... then my xmas will be a good one ;) Oct 28 20:37:26 hrw: yes it is, we just havent released it yet Oct 28 20:39:50 ljp: I'm impressed, trolltech dropped gcc 2.95 for newer qtopia.. Oct 28 20:40:33 heh Oct 28 20:40:45 gp uses 4.1.1 Oct 28 20:41:05 on website TT wrote: GCC version 3.3.5 or higher Oct 28 20:46:52 Well qtopia2 breaks bc anyways, doesn't it? Might as well fix the compiler choice at the same time :p Oct 28 20:49:49 hmmm ok .... http://politics.slashdot.org/politics/06/10/28/1934208.shtml Oct 28 20:50:45 boy, this guy is a dictator in the making Oct 28 21:13:24 CoreDump|home: I managed to read the article of towardfreedom and man I'm scared Oct 28 21:16:07 chouimat|ibook: many people are. But interestingly most americans are too brainwashed to notice anything by the looks of it Oct 28 21:28:01 CoreDump|home: be prepared to see the Republicans singing a different tune on the morning of Nov. 8 Oct 28 21:29:48 kerwood: I hope so Oct 28 21:36:01 There seem to be a few scary new pieces of legisation going on in America atm :-/ Oct 28 21:39:43 on the upside, any positive legislation wouldn't make it into the international press / slashdot & friends Oct 28 21:40:08 so we are likely to juts not hear about it Oct 28 21:40:58 true, we can but hope Oct 28 21:51:48 CoreDump|home: check recent RMK mail to lakml - pxa2xx pcmcia oops on suspend/resume... maybe will help for your hostap? Oct 28 21:57:46 hrw|tv: interesting, I wasn't following this list. Thanks for the heads up Oct 28 22:18:38 NOTE: Applying patch 'rmk-fix-pcmcia-resume-oops.patch' Oct 28 22:35:06 03nail 07org.oe.dev * r379f90ed... 10/ (6 files in 5 dirs): Add packages sipsak and dircproxy Oct 28 22:35:14 yay Oct 28 22:35:19 my favourite irc bouncer Oct 28 22:35:27 ? Oct 28 22:39:02 mickeyl: ;-) Oct 28 22:39:14 mikeyl: I'm connected through it on openslug :) Oct 28 22:39:34 s/mikeyl/mickeyl/ Oct 28 22:39:42 osas: your packages are in HEAD and stable now :) Oct 28 22:39:47 k Oct 28 22:39:56 I have a new one: monit Oct 28 22:40:00 03nail 07org.oe.dev * r88e67acc... 10/ (1 packages/meta/slugos-packages.bb): slugos-packages: Remove lirc from feed Oct 28 22:40:06 I will send you an e-mail Oct 28 22:40:11 ok Oct 28 22:40:35 did you fixed the first two lines on sipsak? Oct 28 22:40:46 hrw|tv: dircproxy. the thing that keeps me logged in even when i logout Oct 28 22:41:20 ah. I just use screen with irssi over ssh chain Oct 28 22:41:29 http://dircproxy.securiweb.net/ Oct 28 22:41:54 but this is nice b/c when you connect back, you have history Oct 28 22:42:20 and it will tell ppl that you are away when they are trying to send you private msgs Oct 28 22:46:29 I'm used to screen+client method Oct 28 22:46:37 too many years with it Oct 28 22:47:06 * NAiL uses screen+irssi Oct 28 22:47:13 you can still use it via dircproxy, but I know what you mean :) Oct 28 22:48:10 the thing that i really like about dircproxy is the history when I reconnect Oct 28 22:51:23 osas: I have to have a place to run dircproxy... Oct 28 22:51:31 so I can run screen+irssi there... Oct 28 22:52:04 I just noticed the irssi has proxy functionality Oct 28 22:52:31 that's why I wanted the package on my little nslu ;-) Oct 28 22:52:35 and its easier to use screen+irssi when I run it on machine inside of intranet Oct 28 22:52:56 03nail 07org.oe.dev * r1c8cbe38... 10/ (3 files in 2 dirs): watchdog: Update to 5.2.6, 5.2 no longer exists Oct 28 22:53:19 this machine where I have irssi does not have connections from outside Oct 28 22:53:35 dircproxy doesn't need connection from outside Oct 28 22:53:52 and the setup is pretty easy Oct 28 22:54:35 you can run dircproxy on your desktop and use irssi to connect locally to it Oct 28 22:55:12 when you disconnect from the dircproxy, the dircproxy will keep the connection up for you and it will start logging Oct 28 22:55:40 when you reconnect, it will send back to your client a certain amount of history Oct 28 22:56:21 osas: how to connect to dircproxy which run on machine which is not reachable from internet? Oct 28 22:56:30 I have been using dircproxy for a long time and I was very happy with it Oct 28 22:56:41 dircproxy is a client Oct 28 22:56:56 osas: irssi keeps a backlog... I just use pgup when I want to read stuff that happened while I was away ;) Oct 28 22:57:16 dircproxy will connect to the server whaen you connect to it Oct 28 22:57:37 03nail 07org.oe.dev * ra8f1a7be... 10/ (1 packages/asterisk/asterisk_1.2.13.bb): asterisk: upstream upgrade to 1.2.13 Oct 28 22:57:38 s.whaen/when/ Oct 28 22:58:45 If I want to connect to my dircproxy from work, I'm ssh-ing home with port forwarding Oct 28 22:59:39 I do it reverse.. Oct 28 22:59:47 screen+irssi on machine at work Oct 28 23:00:00 NAiL: do you still have a backlog if you diconnect? Oct 28 23:00:50 yeah Oct 28 23:00:54 hrw|tv: I guess it is pretty much the same :) Oct 28 23:01:11 then it is just a matter of taste :-) Oct 28 23:01:17 I've got irssi running in a screen session on a server somewhere ;) Oct 28 23:02:07 (Frankfurt, actually) Oct 28 23:02:30 the main difference is that with dircproxy you can use any irc client you want Oct 28 23:02:48 ah, but I prefer irssi over other clients ;-) Oct 28 23:02:59 * NAiL doesn't use a gui client unless there's an emergency :-P Oct 28 23:03:15 I can see that Oct 28 23:03:18 :) Oct 28 23:06:20 * osas likes evilwm Oct 28 23:20:41 cu Oct 28 23:21:08 bye bye **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Oct 29 02:59:56 2006