**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 02 02:59:57 2006 Nov 02 06:54:40 * mickeyl yawns Nov 02 06:55:04 hi mickeyl Nov 02 06:55:07 *yawn* Nov 02 06:55:13 hey! Nov 02 06:55:17 you up so early, too? Nov 02 06:55:37 XorA|gone: wrt54gl is what you need. but search for wrt54slgl (kind of that name) which has usb host Nov 02 06:55:50 mickeyl: Ania wake at 6 and left at 7 Nov 02 06:56:04 during weekend I will go to am64 land Nov 02 06:56:22 hrw: cool. you need to do two things: Nov 02 06:56:24 now need to build kernel which will boot on anything Nov 02 06:56:28 1.) BUILD_ARCH=i686 Nov 02 06:56:37 2.) modify uname binary to emit i686 Nov 02 06:56:44 if you don't do that, your builds will fail sooner or later Nov 02 06:56:53 oe builds? Nov 02 06:57:19 yeah. these are the two things I had to do get building distros on x86_64 machines Nov 02 06:58:07 just keep it in mind once you run into problems Nov 02 06:58:13 perhaps you have more luck with a stock system :) Nov 02 06:58:23 mickeyl: I did builds on amd64 without such messing Nov 02 06:58:33 really? were they using 64-bit or 32-bit userland? Nov 02 06:58:36 64bit modes Nov 02 06:58:38 aah Nov 02 06:58:41 cool Nov 02 06:58:49 the machine i need to use is running 32-bit userland Nov 02 06:58:56 cbrake has such machine - I was fixing python building on it Nov 02 06:59:23 bug was in tk - lack of one dependency ;D Nov 02 06:59:30 ah :) Nov 02 06:59:37 you know what... hardware sucks Nov 02 06:59:45 we have a demo on tuesday next week Nov 02 06:59:54 and just came a mail from shanghai Nov 02 07:00:08 "sorry guys, due to a PCB problem, the touchscreen on all your boards will never work" Nov 02 07:00:11 *sigh* Nov 02 07:00:14 ;((( Nov 02 07:00:38 crap Nov 02 07:00:54 now i need to think about an alternative controlling the touchschreen via serial. i have no idea at this point Nov 02 07:01:04 or else we can only show X booting Nov 02 07:01:05 heh Nov 02 07:01:33 mickeyl: progear has touchscreen on serial Nov 02 07:01:36 XorA|gone: hrw meant the WRTSL54GS (took me some time to find the right one) Nov 02 07:01:46 thx rwhitby Nov 02 07:02:08 http://www.tomsnetworking.com/2005/10/20/linksys_product_preview_/ Nov 02 07:02:08 hrw: yeah, well, hardware modification is out of discussion. i need to think about feeding some events via a serial protocol into x. perhaps with uinput!? Nov 02 07:05:34 shit. I have to remove one mainboard from list. CM6501 audio is not supported by alsa Nov 02 07:23:06 * mickeyl brews coffee Nov 02 07:26:13 socket939 is cheap solution but finding board in shops is other thing.. Nov 02 07:30:32 i'm totally out of the loop regarding desktop hardware... Nov 02 07:30:47 my dual xeon workstation will not be replaced before 2008 Nov 02 07:31:46 its fast enough Nov 02 07:32:06 yeah Nov 02 07:32:30 even my windows machine with 2.4 P4 is ok for all stuff i do on it. office kind Nov 02 07:32:42 yesterday I discovered that I never bought complete pc Nov 02 07:32:49 heh Nov 02 07:32:49 never? Nov 02 07:32:52 never Nov 02 07:33:06 amiga 600 -> amiga1200 -> pc1 -> pc2 -> now will be pc3 Nov 02 07:33:14 pc1 got hdd, cd from a1200 Nov 02 07:33:32 hehe Nov 02 07:33:33 pc2 got cd, cdrw, hdd from pc1 and got new hdd Nov 02 07:33:34 cool. Nov 02 07:33:41 i bought two in the 90s Nov 02 07:33:45 pc3 will get cpu and mainboard replaced Nov 02 07:33:45 c64 -> amiga 1000 -> no name PC -> no name PC -> self-built ... Nov 02 07:34:09 I will maybe write something about on blog Nov 02 07:34:25 my experience with complete systems is horrible Nov 02 07:34:37 most are utterly bad configured Nov 02 07:34:44 (windows, that is) Nov 02 07:34:47 mickeyl: by complete I mean 'self built complete' Nov 02 07:34:54 aah Nov 02 07:34:58 i thought bought Nov 02 07:35:06 so all your PCs are self-built? Nov 02 07:35:13 all one Nov 02 07:35:27 all were self-built Nov 02 07:35:32 cool. i didn't try that in the early years Nov 02 07:35:37 I always had 1 computer Nov 02 07:35:48 mickeyl: I switched to x86 6 years ago Nov 02 07:36:11 1995 - amiga 600 + 425M hdd Nov 02 07:36:35 yeah, the 600 with hdd was a powerful model. in my amiga days HDs weren't there Nov 02 07:36:37 ~1998 - a1200 Nov 02 07:36:45 2000 - duron600 Nov 02 07:37:25 2003 - athlon 1.8GHz Nov 02 07:37:35 2006 - athlon64 1.8 or 2.0GHz Nov 02 07:38:09 brb Nov 02 07:41:27 re Nov 02 07:45:37 wb Nov 02 07:45:48 OT: gimp on windows is working pretty ok Nov 02 07:47:16 if someone want to be a windows man Nov 02 07:48:35 hehe. well, Sabine has some statistical tools + office remote login that only works on windows... I have some expensive music software that only runs on windows. that's the reasonss why my main(non-devel) machine still runs Windows Nov 02 07:48:52 ;) Nov 02 07:51:28 PAL/NTSC mainboard jumper.. Nov 02 07:51:58 but the most interesting thing is always 'factory reserved' jumpers Nov 02 07:52:09 heh, yeah Nov 02 07:53:43 mickeyl: will your secret device have jtag connector? Nov 02 07:55:17 the bad thing is that mATX boards usually lack connectors in 'cd-in' format. Nov 02 07:55:51 The 9-pin connector at location J7 is for connecting a serial port. The Nov 02 07:55:51 serial por t cable is an optional item and must be purchased Nov 02 07:55:51 separately. Your serial port may come mounted on a card-edge Nov 02 07:55:54 fsck. Nov 02 07:56:22 hrw: the prototype model has one soldered, but I doubt that the production models will have one. However... we have the schematics, so if someone wants to solder one, it will be possible :) Nov 02 08:02:31 time to go t work Nov 02 08:02:33 cu Nov 02 08:07:53 morning likewise Nov 02 08:07:56 & rwhitby :) Nov 02 08:08:20 good morning fooks Nov 02 08:08:32 hey NAiL Nov 02 08:09:56 morning Nov 02 08:10:02 Does anyone know where psyco for dapper is? Nov 02 08:23:38 likewise: Isn't it in the standard repo? Nov 02 08:23:47 (are you running anything else than x86?) Nov 02 08:23:54 Opening synaptic again Nov 02 08:23:57 x86_64 Nov 02 08:24:06 it's x86 only Nov 02 08:24:12 tnx Nov 02 08:24:27 I found out the same on my edgy box ;) Nov 02 08:24:39 which is 64 bit? Nov 02 08:24:54 yeah Nov 02 08:29:09 re Nov 02 08:32:47 morning Nov 02 08:41:08 morning all Nov 02 08:59:30 morning Nov 02 09:03:26 morning all Nov 02 09:04:45 hey RP Nov 02 09:05:19 ~lart ubuntu Nov 02 09:05:19 * ibot send killer squirrels to attack ubuntu Nov 02 09:06:16 it'll teach me not to check the default partitioning scheme Nov 02 09:09:22 hi RP XorA likewise ade|desk tkp Nov 02 09:13:17 ping? Nov 02 09:13:19 okay, nm me **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 02 09:20:15 2006 Nov 02 09:38:23 good morning Nov 02 09:47:36 yo florian_kc Nov 02 09:48:46 XorA: what is ubuntu's default partitioning ? Nov 02 09:56:56 ade|desk: everything on / Nov 02 09:57:08 ade|desk: I was so used to seperate / and /home I never checked Nov 02 10:00:41 wow, thats a crazy idea for a distro that people change to /from more often than their socks Nov 02 10:02:16 ade|desk: exactly, I want to change away as edgy is a disaster Nov 02 10:03:36 XorA: is it ? .. thats a shame Nov 02 10:04:23 ade|desk: seems to be the way of ubuntu, good release, disatser, good release, disatster Nov 02 10:04:57 but I suppose dapper is a LTS release so thats why its a whole lot bettrer than edgy Nov 02 10:18:06 damn copying gigs from one partition to another is slow Nov 02 10:19:24 XorA: you means it's not on a SAN with snapshot capabilities? Nov 02 10:19:38 tusk tusk tusk Nov 02 10:19:41 ade|desk: just a DELL desktop Nov 02 10:19:54 ah run for the hills Nov 02 10:20:16 or mountains for you .. lucky guy Nov 02 10:20:37 nearest mountain is 6 hours away for me Nov 02 10:24:01 * XorA sings Iron Maiden Nov 02 10:33:05 any sign of lrg? Nov 02 10:33:11 and hey all Nov 02 10:33:26 hey mikearthur he be in PM Nov 02 10:33:33 mikearthur: how it going? Nov 02 10:33:37 good man Nov 02 10:33:44 4th year is crazy amounts of work Nov 02 10:33:55 hows Wolfson treating you? Nov 02 10:33:59 mikearthur: yeah, no boozing for you if you want that 1st :-) Nov 02 10:34:04 heh Nov 02 10:34:12 mikearthur: going well so far, I havent felt the boot out the door yet Nov 02 10:34:19 haha Nov 02 10:34:29 is Liam in, just not on the channel? Nov 02 10:34:39 mikearthur: he isnt in office until PM Nov 02 10:34:43 ah ok Nov 02 10:34:49 I thought you meant PM = private message Nov 02 10:35:04 are Francis or Iain in? Nov 02 10:35:12 mikearthur: they are Nov 02 10:35:18 say hiya from me :) Nov 02 10:35:30 * XorA does so Nov 02 10:36:36 nice one Nov 02 10:40:43 mikearthur, : a lot of people wait after lrg for the wolfson lol Nov 02 10:40:54 :) Nov 02 10:42:36 mikearthur: your name sign is still hanging around here :-) Nov 02 10:42:43 hehe Nov 02 10:42:48 you on my old desk? Nov 02 10:43:01 mikearthur: no, all the cubicles moved around, I was when I started Nov 02 10:43:05 oh yeh, so they did Nov 02 10:43:08 mikearthur: Animal is still here Nov 02 10:43:11 :D Nov 02 10:43:13 good good Nov 02 10:43:24 Francis or Iain have anything to say for themselves? Nov 02 10:43:40 mikearthur: not much, they are heads down with work Nov 02 10:43:50 fair enough, I know how it is :) Nov 02 10:43:57 I'm gonna idle here toda Nov 02 10:43:57 y Nov 02 10:43:57 mikearthur: we dont sit with them anymore, they are next door Nov 02 10:44:02 ah ok Nov 02 10:44:32 can you get liam to ping me when you see him? Nov 02 10:44:38 just wondering if he's hitting edlug tonight Nov 02 10:44:46 mikearthur: I think he was planning to Nov 02 10:44:51 and the meal beforehand? Nov 02 10:44:55 mikearthur: as he missed the last couple Nov 02 10:45:04 I can't make the pub, but can make a meal Nov 02 10:45:12 mikearthur: I think he normally does the Auld Hoose Nov 02 10:45:19 cool cool Nov 02 10:45:23 aye, thats the one Nov 02 10:45:30 mikearthur: if you idle Ill tell him Nov 02 10:45:36 mikearthur: then get back to you Nov 02 10:45:37 nice one, thanks Nov 02 11:32:53 hi Nov 02 11:32:59 hey hrw|work Nov 02 11:33:01 here a bit more people exists Nov 02 11:33:38 hrw|work: a split? Nov 02 11:34:00 hrw|work: BTW I ordered the WRT54GL as I plan to get a N2100 for storage Nov 02 11:34:11 XorA: split Nov 02 11:34:15 02 12:53 [FreeNode] !sterling.freenode.net *** Notice -- Server is currently split, channel modes are limited Nov 02 11:34:16 hrw|work: and my normal suppliers didnt have the fancy WRT Nov 02 11:34:34 XorA: Oe can build packages for wrt54 Nov 02 11:34:59 hrw|work: I know, thats the reason I get it, I replace router part of my dieing machine with WRT, and server part of my dieing machine with N2100 Nov 02 11:40:50 I will replace^Wupgrade my home machine this weekend - amd64 (32bit mode first) Nov 02 11:55:30 hrw|work: why 32bit? Nov 02 11:59:30 XorA: because it is 32 >= 64<<1 :) Nov 02 12:00:59 XorA: I have 32bit Debian on disk and only mainboard/cpu will be replaced. Nov 02 12:01:13 XorA: when I find time I will backup system and move it to 64bit Nov 02 12:06:05 * XorA sends hrw|work some damp string Nov 02 12:06:20 hrw|work: remember that Tosa stuff I did in the summer? When d'ya reckon it would be in mainline? Nov 02 12:08:13 mikearthur: do not know. Nov 02 12:08:19 ok, just curious :) Nov 02 12:08:40 mikearthur: I do not send zaurus code up Nov 02 12:09:18 oh ok Nov 02 12:09:36 presumably it'll get taken up eventually Nov 02 12:27:51 In file included from umount.c:30: Nov 02 12:27:53 | nfsmount.h:6:1: error: unterminated #ifndef Nov 02 12:28:31 Does that error sound familiar to anyone? Nov 02 12:28:49 sure Nov 02 12:28:52 lack of #endif Nov 02 12:31:22 :-) Nov 02 13:00:05 hmm, freenode is a touch fragmented Nov 02 13:02:13 * *** Notice -- Server is currently split, channel modes are limited Nov 02 13:02:26 yes since more than 4 hours Nov 02 13:03:03 loads of #oe'ers are over --> Nov 02 13:06:05 hrm Nov 02 13:06:59 Hi! Nov 02 13:07:21 ~lart freenode Nov 02 13:08:09 indeed Nov 02 13:08:35 hrw|work, Can you fix my cluelessness? Why patches to ide_cs.c will never be accepted upstream? Nov 02 13:09:00 psokolovsky: ? Nov 02 13:09:23 psokolovsky: mine patches to ide-cs are accepted each time. Nov 02 13:09:41 hrw|work, I saw such note somewhere, and patch to add more cards to ide_cs.c are by you IIRC. Nov 02 13:10:27 hrw|work, hm, well, what about hrw-pcmcia-ids-r2.patch? it's not in .17. in later release? Nov 02 13:12:12 hrw|work, well, maybe it was hostap_cs.c... %) Any comments? Nov 02 13:13:14 hey florian_kc Nov 02 13:14:00 psokolovsky: http://kernel.org/git/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=commit;h=4fa902a918518bcdc420bd272d2dd13fcae01581 Nov 02 13:17:07 hrw|work, ok, thanks. Teh reason I'm asking because not everyone build kernels with OE.dev, and then complains that his cards don't work. So, I'd like to merge current patches to linux-handhelds-2.6 (24-hostap_cs_id.diff, hrw-pcmcia-ids-r2.patch) to hh.org CVS. Now that I know they any such patches are going to be in mainline eventually, I'm sure that's ok. Nov 02 13:17:39 hrw|work, ok, thanks. Teh reason I'm asking because not everyone build kernels with OE.dev, and then complains that his cards don't work. So, I'd like to merge current patches to linux-handhelds-2.6 (24-hostap_cs_id.diff, hrw-pcmcia-ids-r2.patch) to hh.org CVS. Now that I know they any such patches are going to be in mainline eventually, I'm sure that's ok. Nov 02 13:19:54 food time Nov 02 13:20:11 psokolovsky: get also patch from linux-omap1 Nov 02 13:20:19 ok, thanks Nov 02 13:21:05 psokolovsky: that one is merged into pcmcia tree Nov 02 13:21:22 mikearthur: lrg is stuck the other side of the split **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 02 13:33:32 2006 Nov 02 13:34:10 ~fish lrg Nov 02 13:57:44 Things might even be working again :) Nov 02 14:08:15 mikearthur: look up glTeapot(); Nov 02 14:08:36 XorA: aye, its the same one Nov 02 14:08:49 difference is, I wrote the 3D rendering engine from scratch, on top of a 2D line drawing app :D Nov 02 14:09:03 its the Utah Teapot Nov 02 14:09:27 mikearthur: can it make tea? Nov 02 14:09:38 thats Part C :) Nov 02 14:09:46 Part C will be even cooler Nov 02 14:09:50 smooth the edges using bezier patches Nov 02 14:09:58 mikearthur: you doing a graphics course then? Nov 02 14:10:02 aye Nov 02 14:10:10 mikearthur: cool, I did that many many years ago Nov 02 14:10:15 good fun Nov 02 14:10:18 mikearthur: OpenGL roxers Nov 02 14:10:20 where did you study? Nov 02 14:10:28 mikearthur: Heriot Watt Nov 02 14:10:31 yeh, its good to know how OpenGL works though Nov 02 14:10:46 mikearthur: we had to cover the maths as well Nov 02 14:10:47 I'm gonna port this to SDL when I have time Nov 02 14:10:56 mikearthur: and it was a 3 module course with robotics as well Nov 02 14:10:59 cool Nov 02 14:11:12 all matrix multiplications Nov 02 14:11:23 aye Nov 02 14:11:29 I ran KCacheGrind Nov 02 14:11:30 and a lecturer who wouldnt beleive me about limiting cos to between 0 and 1 Nov 02 14:11:44 hehe Nov 02 14:12:02 with a 360 rotation, iirc, KCachegrind said it did 80,000 matrix multiplications Nov 02 14:12:17 3 degrees of motion robot only has one insoluable point if all joints are limited to 0->90% he wouldnt beleive this Nov 02 14:12:29 heh Nov 02 14:14:44 mikearthur: BTW we just put Xgl on that old Dell you used to use Nov 02 14:14:51 oh cool Nov 02 14:14:54 it run ok? Nov 02 14:15:06 mikearthur: suprisingly yes Nov 02 14:15:17 it cant do the raindrops Nov 02 14:15:22 but everything else works Nov 02 14:15:32 thats why Xgl is sweet Nov 02 14:15:44 doesn't need the stupid hardware requirements of Vista or OSX Nov 02 14:15:58 * XorA thinks about Suse on his AMD64 Nov 02 14:24:12 whats on atm? Nov 02 14:27:47 debian etch, which is a dive Nov 02 14:29:43 a dive/ Nov 02 14:29:44 dive? Nov 02 14:30:02 mikearthur: kinda works, is about all I can say about it Nov 02 14:30:06 he Nov 02 14:30:07 h Nov 02 14:30:11 mikearthur: its a long way from release anyway Nov 02 14:35:51 use Gentoo ftw! Nov 02 14:38:33 sure , use gentoo. Nov 02 14:39:20 hi Nov 02 14:39:36 * XorA thinks someone is trying to brainwash him to gentoo Nov 02 14:41:32 heh Nov 02 14:57:36 64bit gentoo works for me. Nov 02 15:21:57 ~fish lrg Nov 02 15:22:00 * ibot slaps lrg around with a large trout Nov 02 15:23:31 ~kipper lrg Nov 02 15:23:33 ah a large trout Nov 02 15:23:44 * lrg likes kippers Nov 02 15:23:57 ~prod lrg Nov 02 15:23:59 * ibot zaps lrg with a high voltage cattle prod Nov 02 15:24:10 yop liam Nov 02 15:24:20 smoke me a kipper and I'll be back for breakfast ! Nov 02 15:26:14 http://mikearthur.co.uk/cg.tar.bz2 Nov 02 15:26:20 finished :D Nov 02 15:37:32 Genesis: http://www.ydc.co.uk/yop/ Nov 02 15:39:24 guys Nov 02 15:39:39 say someone has an influence about a next-gen smartphone design Nov 02 15:39:45 what CPU would you recommend? Nov 02 15:39:58 mx31 Nov 02 15:40:26 i was afraid of that Nov 02 15:40:30 AMD 4x4 :-D Nov 02 15:40:31 mickeyl: it's arm11 with vfp & 3d Nov 02 15:40:37 lrg: it's very far from mainline isn't it? Nov 02 15:41:01 mickeyl: just as an app cpu ? Nov 02 15:41:03 mickeyl: a little, although I have some bb for it with 2.6.18 Nov 02 15:41:10 lrg: how's the support for all the multimedia stuff? i heard they still have closed a lot of specs. Nov 02 15:41:20 ade|desk: yes, just as AP. BP will be something different Nov 02 15:41:27 mickeyl: it's powerVR based Nov 02 15:41:44 mickeyl: best to speak to mallum about that Nov 02 15:41:56 lrg: will do. i'm going to meet him on monday Nov 02 15:41:57 * mickeyl notes Nov 02 15:42:32 XorA, : yeap it's good the yop :) Nov 02 15:42:42 i buy 3 bottle per month Nov 02 15:42:47 :) Nov 02 15:43:20 mickeyl, : freescale sux for mainline Nov 02 15:43:55 they don't like opensource ... Nov 02 15:44:01 Genesis: this is changing, there are people working on this.... Nov 02 15:44:24 cool Nov 02 15:44:40 when lrg and I tested it, mx31 plays mpeg 1 video without accelleration at only 40% cpu load Nov 02 15:44:45 woah Nov 02 15:44:45 i work on the mx21 since march , Nov 02 15:44:50 Genesis: although, they are not working on mx21 :( Nov 02 15:44:59 pxa270 with same video is 120% load Nov 02 15:45:23 lrg, : oki Nov 02 15:45:43 mickeyl, : are you on the matchbox mailing list ? Nov 02 15:46:08 * XorA cant wait until mickeyl ports Xgl to kdrive Nov 02 15:46:08 Genesis: not yet Nov 02 15:46:19 today a french guy was writing about launch his phone manufacturer company Nov 02 15:46:20 XorA: heh. me and GL? Nov 02 15:46:34 Genesis: that was on gpe list as well Nov 02 15:46:37 yes Nov 02 15:46:39 right Nov 02 15:46:42 Genesis: I think he is dreaming personally Nov 02 15:46:44 remember the name? Nov 02 15:46:59 guillaume fortaine Nov 02 15:47:01 Guillaume FORTAINE Nov 02 15:47:07 prem's Nov 02 15:47:08 :P Nov 02 15:48:55 hmm Nov 02 15:48:57 doesn't ring a bell Nov 02 15:50:35 mickeyl: http://www.handhelds.org/hypermail/gpe/current/5673.html Nov 02 15:50:47 XorA: thanks Nov 02 15:50:48 * mickeyl reads Nov 02 15:50:50 speaking about kdrive... Nov 02 15:51:00 xorg 7.3 will have input-hotplug Nov 02 15:51:03 uh oh Nov 02 15:51:08 hrw|work: cool! Nov 02 15:51:22 hrw|work: sweet Nov 02 15:51:23 nice Nov 02 15:51:37 now some non crashingness is neede Nov 02 15:51:38 d Nov 02 15:51:52 well, if all that comes out from this guy is gpe improvements, this is fair enough Nov 02 15:52:14 i'm not believing in anyone producing commercial grade hardware without backing of a huge company Nov 02 15:52:21 see the pocketpenguin project is dead as well Nov 02 15:52:25 mickeyl: it didnt look like a flier to me, getting investment for that is never going to happen Nov 02 15:52:31 *nod* Nov 02 15:52:52 walk into bank, I want to beat Nokia, goodbye dont let door hit you Nov 02 15:52:59 hehe Nov 02 15:53:12 * mickeyl can't wait to see who wins the race for the first truly open phone Nov 02 15:53:49 * XorA puts his bets on the chinese TDMA Nov 02 15:54:19 as ETSI are a bunch of stuckup arse bandits Nov 02 15:55:08 french are boomers Nov 02 15:57:17 http://www.fooishbar.org/blog/tech/x/input-hotplug-2006-11-02-15-19.html Nov 02 16:14:45 cu Nov 02 16:20:01 ho koen|gprs Nov 02 16:20:04 good morning all Nov 02 16:20:50 hey XorA Nov 02 16:32:33 ibot: botmail for pH5: http://www.fooishbar.org/blog/tech/x/input-hotplug-2006-11-02-15-19.html Nov 02 16:32:44 bye Nov 02 17:00:25 03nail 07org.oe.dev * r47578194... 10/ (4 files in 3 dirs): dircproxy: add patch from debian Nov 02 17:00:31 03nail 07org.oe.dev * r0804ce16... 10/ (4 files in 3 dirs): sipsak: Add patch from debian Nov 02 17:00:35 03nail 07org.oe.dev * ra2fb5bc0... 10/ (1 packages/meta/slugos-packages.bb): slugos-packages: Re-add dircproxy to feed Nov 02 17:12:16 * NAiL pokes CIA-4 Nov 02 17:22:49 * mrz80 is away: Metaphysically I'm still here; physically, I'm elsewhere Nov 02 17:28:44 Hello Nov 02 17:58:02 do we still have a netsplit? Nov 02 17:58:13 i don't think so Nov 02 18:00:27 ok Nov 02 18:10:14 bbl Nov 02 18:16:40 mickey|lunch: you there ? Nov 02 18:25:53 lol Nov 02 18:25:55 http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS6543561770.html Nov 02 18:26:02 XorA|gone: wow, did you vote for it? Nov 02 18:26:22 ljp: and the greenphone ships since one month? Nov 02 18:26:56 koen|gprs: http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS6543561770.html Nov 02 18:27:06 koen|gprs: and it ships for one month already :} Nov 02 18:27:31 cu Nov 02 18:29:12 zecke: heh Nov 02 18:30:50 oh http://www.qtopia.net/modules/devices/greenphone-src.php Nov 02 18:32:23 1.9MB??? Nov 02 18:32:26 zecke: I don't get it Nov 02 18:32:48 zecke: "Click on the 'K' menu icon on the lower left of the task bar" Nov 02 18:32:53 which K? Nov 02 18:33:07 I have a blue apple on the only bar on my screen Nov 02 18:33:26 zecke: and the usb drive doesn't mount under /mnt Nov 02 18:33:47 koen|gprs: your version of Unix must suck Nov 02 18:33:51 koen|gprs: ask for a refun Nov 02 18:33:55 off to the gym Nov 02 18:38:26 koen: you need to install the SDK then Nov 02 18:39:03 perhaps you didnt read the instructions Nov 02 18:39:40 or the title that reads "Instructions for installing Qtopia Source code into the Greenphone SDK" Nov 02 18:40:47 chouimat: thats qtopia application sources only. Nov 02 18:41:28 ljp: ok so I have to get the iso too? Nov 02 18:42:33 iso doesnt come with sources, libqtopia and friends have not yet been released as gpl Nov 02 18:42:48 k Nov 02 18:42:49 doesnt come with qtopia sources, that is Nov 02 18:44:23 ljp: so is this the first step to the long awaited GPL qtopia ? Nov 02 18:45:12 hvontres|poodle: s/long awaited/mythical :) Nov 02 18:46:20 sorta. 4.2 is being refactored Nov 02 18:47:22 ljp: So now at least the lawers are happy and we're just waiting for the coders to finish? Nov 02 18:49:01 pretty much Nov 02 18:49:30 ljp: Better than the other way around :) Nov 02 18:52:04 true that Nov 02 18:53:44 ljp: so currently, we can get the source for the apps, but not for the libraries, correct? Nov 02 18:54:46 yep Nov 02 18:56:11 better than nothing I guess Nov 02 18:58:38 can we get the source to your brain? Nov 02 18:58:56 (can't begin to imagine how we'd compile it, though) Nov 02 19:00:29 you need the sdk Nov 02 19:11:20 * mrz80 is back (gone 01:48:32) Nov 02 19:33:33 anyone know if someone have already do some work on OE to support small NAS such as Synology SC 406 ? it have inside a ppc cpu 8xxx, i don't remember the model ... Nov 02 19:34:00 not to my knowledge Nov 02 19:34:15 atleast not anything that's been talked about on ds101-linux Nov 02 19:34:56 (And I can't say I've heard about it here either) Nov 02 19:37:14 Infact, none of the synology products have had any work done in OE. Only nslu2-linux optware. Nov 02 19:37:36 * NAiL should know ;-) Nov 02 19:41:31 NAiL yes ds101 use the same cpu and probably the whole board don't differ so much ... there is a site about linux fos such devices ? Nov 02 19:42:51 the ds101 and ds101j uses an ARM CPU. Teh rest of the NAS boxes uses ppc. Nov 02 19:43:00 http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/DS101/HomePage Nov 02 19:43:18 also, groups.yahoo.com. ds101-linux Nov 02 19:43:29 * NAiL needs to update ds101-linux.org... Nov 02 19:45:04 ops ... a site for the ppc NAS ? Nov 02 19:45:28 the link is both for ARM and ppc Nov 02 19:45:43 as well as the yahoo group Nov 02 19:47:58 I'm not familiar with th SC 406, but I imagine it's mostly the same as the previous NAS'es Nov 02 19:49:58 yes probably ... i'm thinking to buy one of them, the firmware seem really powerfull but probably it can do more with a custom linux ... such as have a usb adsl modem :) Nov 02 19:50:38 you might have problems getting an usb adsl modem running without updating it to a 2.6-kernel Nov 02 19:51:01 and in that case, you'll have to work a fair bit getting the kernel running Nov 02 19:51:37 Ask in the group. Someone might know about it ;) Nov 02 19:53:53 sure sure i whould jump to kernel 2.6 .. now i'm looking if tha board have a serial (yes) and a jtag so any kind of experiment will be safe :) Nov 02 19:54:17 good idea ;) Nov 02 19:54:37 I'll probably start working on a ppc distro for NAS in a little while Nov 02 19:55:08 I'm getting a freescale-based nas, 82xx. I want to run 2.6 on it :) Nov 02 19:56:08 hey RP, im curious on what it takes to get apm working correctly for 2.6... could you possibly fill me in? Nov 02 20:06:28 NAiL if i buy a SC-406 i'll be a your tester and/or help u :) Nov 02 20:33:11 hey koen|gprs Nov 02 20:34:53 hey pH5 Nov 02 20:39:29 has anything changed with the usbnet driver between 2.6.9 and 2.6.17 that differs in which modules need to be loaded in order for usb networkign with a SL-6000 zaurus? Nov 02 20:39:47 everything used to work and now I cannot seem to get usb0 on the pc Nov 02 20:41:03 gremlin[it]: great ;-) Nov 02 20:42:42 i see some picture of SC101G+ ... is have so easy connector for serial and jtag ... i hope sc406 would be tha same :) ... Nov 02 20:45:23 My guess would be that serial is the same Nov 02 20:45:47 (ie, 3.3v) Nov 02 20:46:05 I've never been able to get proper JTAG info out of Synology :-\ Nov 02 20:46:55 there is a 8x2 connector with JTAG wrote on top ... mhhh strange :( Nov 02 20:47:50 i go to sleep ... g'night all Nov 02 20:55:31 ~botmail to XorA|gone : Did you ever get a chance to look into adding Master Volume to asoc? Nov 02 21:05:20 ~botmail check Nov 02 21:11:37 zecke2: that looks like a fake award to me, trolltech werent even at linuxworld Nov 02 21:16:16 bitbake.conf:SRC_URI = "file://${FILE}" Nov 02 21:16:20 funky Nov 02 21:19:47 mning Nov 02 21:24:39 Are QA problems such as "ERROR: QA Issue: non dev package contains .so: qte-mt"reported automatically or should one open a bug report about it? Nov 02 21:28:00 XorA|gprs: Did you ever get a chance to look into adding Master Volume to asoc? Nov 02 21:34:01 hvontres|poodle: i got as far as compiling the mixers. a task this morning took longer than i thoguht Nov 02 21:34:19 hvontres|poodle: still on my todo though Nov 02 21:42:36 03nail 07org.oe.dev * r88193d15... 10/ (1 packages/meta/slugos-packages.bb): slugos-packages: Remove bwmon from feed Nov 02 21:55:06 ~botmail check Nov 02 22:00:25 re Nov 02 22:03:34 ya, Trolltech is faking awards.... puh Nov 02 22:04:06 Trolltech might support you guys more if you werent so hostile Nov 02 22:04:26 frankly I am quite sick of some of the attitudes Nov 02 22:04:31 ljp: uh? Nov 02 22:04:32 TT might support them if they lowered their standards .... Nov 02 22:04:50 XorA|gone> zecke2: that looks like a fake award to me, trolltech werent even at linuxworld Nov 02 22:05:44 :-) Nov 02 22:06:41 sounds like to me a few oe devs are jealous of TT Nov 02 22:07:18 ljp: why should oe people be jealous? Nov 02 22:07:26 i dont know, it just appears like that to me Nov 02 22:07:56 * florian doesn't even see a relationship Nov 02 22:08:13 same stupid crap going on that happened with handelds.org Nov 02 22:09:40 ljp: now i start to become nosy... tell me the whole story Nov 02 22:13:47 when setting up a z with usbnet on a bridgeed host do I have to do anything to allow its dhcp to get to the dhcpserver? Nov 02 22:13:54 the server never gets the discovers Nov 02 22:16:43 ljp: you always stop to talk when it starts to get interesting, right? Nov 02 22:19:32 i was hoping to get some official support from trolltech for oe, but I am finding recommending it difficult because of the anti trolltech attidues so prevalent here Nov 02 22:19:55 The TT guys talk to several OE guys Nov 02 22:20:10 some. but not officially Nov 02 22:20:23 the TT guys know who to talk wrt to OE Nov 02 22:20:33 i would even do work on oe, but the attidues are very discouraging Nov 02 22:20:49 which is why I stopped Nov 02 22:21:09 ljp: how does this relate to hh.org? Nov 02 22:22:16 same people same attidues Nov 02 22:22:52 hm? come back when you've got a clue about the reasons behind behavior, rather than continuing to spout unfounded nonsense, thanks. Nov 02 22:22:54 ljp: what do you know about hh.org? Nov 02 22:23:38 heh. ya attidues Nov 02 22:24:06 yes, i have an attitude towards people talking about things they clearly lack any real understanding of Nov 02 22:24:11 deal with it Nov 02 22:24:26 heh Nov 02 22:25:14 ljp: I really get the impression that you are one of the major reasons of bad attitude... i remember your braindead gpe related articles, your annoying mails to the maemo mailinglists... and now this here. Nov 02 22:25:31 riiight Nov 02 22:26:24 ljp: you have no idea about handhelds.org, right? Nov 02 22:26:35 i do have an idea about that Nov 02 22:27:42 clearly not one founded on the actual events. Nov 02 22:28:15 ya, right. you know how to read minds, hey Nov 02 22:28:19 I don't know diddly about the situation, but I believe this sums it up Nov 02 22:28:31 no one wants to work with an old verion of qt/e Nov 02 22:28:47 actually. your wrong there Nov 02 22:29:16 and what does that have to do with attitudes Nov 02 22:29:19 re Nov 02 22:29:25 let me re-phrase no one currently actively working on oe wants to work with an ancient qt/e Nov 02 22:29:27 time to get a new laptop :-/ Nov 02 22:29:30 heh Nov 02 22:29:32 me too Nov 02 22:29:35 fyi, ljp, someone who's supposed to act as an interface between two communities is not supposed to become so obviously biased Nov 02 22:29:44 try to gain some objectivity, then what you say might actually get listened to Nov 02 22:29:49 until then, good luck Nov 02 22:29:56 who is ljp? Nov 02 22:30:40 you only think I have become biased. i find more bias comes from community people Nov 02 22:30:53 who are you? Nov 02 22:30:59 He's ljp Nov 02 22:31:07 qtopia community manager and opei core developer Nov 02 22:31:08 an opie developer and trolltech employee Nov 02 22:31:08 Crofton: the trolltech community manager :-) Nov 02 22:31:15 hmmm Nov 02 22:31:42 * florian_ gets some popcorn Nov 02 22:31:42 if ljp actually said something objective once in a while, rather than spouting marketing bullshit, that'd be a start Nov 02 22:31:52 puh Nov 02 22:31:55 i could play buzzword bingo with ljp's mailing list posts all day Nov 02 22:32:10 ljp it is really simple Nov 02 22:32:39 we are all doing this for basically nothing other than knowledge gained that may benfit us in the future Nov 02 22:32:51 the future is not an acient version of qt/e Nov 02 22:33:11 this does not have anything to do with any version of qt/e Nov 02 22:33:34 it has to do with attitudes Nov 02 22:33:36 like I said, I don't know anything other than I watched a guy waste 2 months fiddling with opie Nov 02 22:34:41 I've watched trolltech make claims about releasing this or that for what, years now, with no actual result. all they spout is vapor. you expect people to not be pissed off? Nov 02 22:35:10 trolltech isn't just one person Nov 02 22:36:25 and most vapourware comes from our customers not releasing whatever devices they are working. you should know about htat, kergoth Nov 02 22:36:44 ljp: That was humour not attitude Nov 02 22:37:07 perhaps Nov 02 22:37:11 ljp: and what do you think attitudes come from? /dev/null? Nov 02 22:37:24 clear bias Nov 02 22:37:26 ljp: I have nothing against TT, please dont paint me with your own hostility Nov 02 22:37:36 ok. fair enough Nov 02 22:37:56 ljp: i'm talking about what happened, i'm not saying there weren't reasons for it. stop making excuses. the fact is, the failure to release reflects badly on trolltech, whether it's their fault or not. Nov 02 22:40:13 hi Nov 02 22:40:21 hi CoreDump|home Nov 02 22:41:54 ljp: fwiw, I am looking forward to a version of opie/qtopis that I can use current tools to develop for :) Nov 02 22:42:55 hvontres|poodle: That makes me dream about linux 2.6 based cellphones ;) Nov 02 22:42:56 agreed. Nov 02 22:43:30 ljp: the TT/embedded FOSS community relationship is wrecked thanks to how bad the last years went. Stop talking, start releasing and start finding new FOSS guys to jump on the bandwagon. Perhaps things will turn out better this time. Nov 02 22:43:32 b'night Nov 02 22:43:53 mickey|zzZZzz: good night Nov 02 22:44:17 florian: heh...but you can have a 2.6 powered PDA now :) Nov 02 22:44:28 hvontres|poodle: that's true :-) Nov 02 22:45:04 florian : now if we can get kdrive to be happier in 32MB... Nov 02 22:46:08 hvontres|poodle: i really need to take some time to improve this, especially on the zaurus devices. Nov 02 22:49:00 ljp: I guess at this point, code would speak much louder than words :)... or if it builds, they might come :) Nov 02 22:50:23 I don't hink this solves the problem of communication and trust in each other... what saves one to run into the same bad situation after a new release? Nov 02 22:50:24 Good night Nov 02 22:52:58 florian: hmmm, I wonder how the KDE people manage... Nov 02 22:53:36 * florian is clueless Nov 02 22:54:21 florian: I just figue that they must have figured out a way to deal with TT as well... Nov 02 22:56:17 hvontres|poodle: Is there someone different at tt responsible for the QT/X community relations? Nov 02 22:58:37 I would imagine so Nov 02 23:00:01 Though the KDE/QT relationship probably makes QTtx a bit different than than Qt/e Nov 02 23:05:55 forian: Knut Yrvin is the devtools (Qt/X11) community manager Nov 02 23:10:04 hello Nov 02 23:11:35 i have the followin error, when try to build xf86-video-savage: Nov 02 23:11:40 bitbake xf86-video-savage Nov 02 23:11:43 ... Nov 02 23:11:57 | checking for /dri.h... configure: error: cannot check for file existence when cross compiling Nov 02 23:12:02 ... Nov 02 23:12:30 hvontres: it would also help if TT didn't perceive the linux embedded FOSS community as being hostile Nov 02 23:13:01 You have a chicken and egg problem here Nov 02 23:13:19 the embedded community is hostile because they don't think trolltech gives a damn Nov 02 23:13:35 trolltech doesn't give a damn because they think the embedded community is hostile Nov 02 23:13:56 ljp: as a relative newbee it seems that for such a small community there is a lot of fragmentation. Nov 02 23:14:06 yep. thats where I come in.. community with both sides, as if the voice of the other Nov 02 23:14:22 err, I mean communicate Nov 02 23:14:24 i have similar error with xf86-input-mouse, in this case there were entity file for documentation.. Nov 02 23:14:58 ljp: of course the small size of the community makes one or two vocal memebers that much more powerfull.. Nov 02 23:15:15 could anybody help me? Nov 02 23:17:15 ljp: and the perception, whether it's true or not, of some people in the community is that they think you're not being objective. Which limits what you can effectively accomplish Nov 02 23:18:52 well, perhaps part of that is because they cannot see what I represent for them from within trolltech Nov 02 23:20:16 that's almost certainly true. talk is cheap Nov 02 23:23:29 sergio: nasty... you need to fix the build system of that package or just disable this test (e.g. with the site file if possible)and make sure the file is in place. Nov 02 23:26:15 ljp: just keep in mind that "the community" consists of many individuals with different attitiudes and opinions. you are in the position to represent a single opinion - if you do that well you will be able to achieve really much. Nov 02 23:27:47 ljp: Maybe you can shed more light on your activities on behalf of the FOSS community. I think a lot of the current attitude from the devs stems from the lack of tangible progress towards an updated qt/e Nov 02 23:28:24 true. proof is in the puddin, as they say. Nov 02 23:29:57 but I would not say, 'we will lhave a GPL release within the next few weeks', if it weren't so. management concurs with me. Nov 02 23:30:19 ljp: True. Nov 02 23:30:45 ljp: i await the puddin Nov 02 23:30:52 me as well Nov 02 23:31:59 ljp: But on the other hand, why not have a GPL'd rc that the FOSS community can test and help improve? Not only would it make the new version more tangible, it would also have given the FOSS community more of a sense of being important Nov 02 23:32:22 ljp: plus you could have gotten some "free" testing time..:) Nov 02 23:32:31 agreed. Nov 02 23:34:28 its a shame that management is still concerned about protecting their assets, and continuing to profit by them Nov 02 23:35:01 ljp: and most of the FOSS community are kind of used to "not quite ready for prime time" software...:) Nov 02 23:35:05 TT is a business, which finances the development and release of FOSS Nov 02 23:35:13 ljp: i know :) Nov 02 23:35:39 and since we floated, even more so Nov 02 23:36:21 ljp: heh..thats why I love working for a private company...next quarter is not the end of our horion...:) Nov 02 23:37:55 but, then again, TT is not your typical business Nov 02 23:38:31 which goes back to ... I would like to see TT officially support oe, but .... Nov 02 23:39:30 anyone know where I can get high density crosspoint switches for High Speed LVDS? Nov 02 23:39:44 not my business, but it seems to be yours ;) Nov 02 23:41:08 ljp: On the other hand, having TT support OE would be a way to extend an olive branch back to the community. Nov 02 23:41:45 ljp: But of course, that would be a very tricky balancing act. Nov 02 23:42:01 excatly Nov 02 23:42:08 exactly, rather Nov 02 23:42:34 ljp: it's too bad people can't just check their ego's at the door sometimes :) Nov 02 23:42:57 good night Nov 02 23:43:18 03pfalcon 07org.oe.dev * r5f21d25d... 10/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Nov 02 23:43:18 linux-handhelds-2.6: Merge "_cvs" support into linux-handhelds-2.6.inc. Nov 02 23:43:18 * Had to put SRC_URI to per-version .bb for that. Nov 02 23:43:18 * Tested ;-) Nov 02 23:44:32 florian: good night :) Nov 02 23:45:37 03pfalcon 07org.oe.dev * rc3ebb576... 10/ (1 packages/linux/linux-handhelds-2.6_cvs.bb): linux-handhelds-2.6 cvs: Add commot DESCRIPTION. Nov 02 23:56:15 hm. Nov 02 23:56:41 in trying to build a new OE from the latest snapshot, should I use bitbake 1.4.2 or 1.6? Nov 02 23:56:47 1.6 is current? Nov 03 00:00:00 raduga: You'll want 1.6 Nov 03 00:18:05 hrm. Nov 03 00:18:24 bitbake failing for me with: Nov 03 00:18:30 ValueError: substring not found Nov 03 00:18:53 trying to see if its a broken config issue on my side :/ Nov 03 00:20:45 someone else reported it on *** Can not join #oldwarez: Warez is illegal Nov 03 00:20:49 ugh Nov 03 00:20:53 bad paste :( Nov 03 00:21:12 (someone else apparently reported that on http://pastebin.ca/219273 ) Nov 03 00:22:44 * raduga trying to resolve the issue enough to tell whether its useful to report to the bugtracker Nov 03 00:52:07 raduga: looks like the one on pastebin had no target to build... Nov 03 00:52:59 interesting. Yes, the first line of output from bitbake (when I do it myself) is 'ERROR: no files to build.' Nov 03 00:53:58 odd. I'm invoking with 'bitbake opie-image' Nov 03 00:55:10 raduga : did it parse any files? Nov 03 00:55:20 No, it did not. Nov 03 00:55:40 'parsing finished' but didn't actually parse any Nov 03 00:56:32 GettingStarted at wiki? ;-) Nov 03 00:56:41 heh ;) Nov 03 00:56:53 raduga : did you forget to set BBPATH ?? Nov 03 00:57:00 seems like env/local.conf setting problem Nov 03 00:57:26 psokolovsky: hrm. it doesn't appear to be parsing the local.conf at all Nov 03 00:57:49 BBPATH then Nov 03 00:58:09 bbpath = ~/oe/build:~/oe/org.openembedded.dev Nov 03 00:58:25 try BBPATH Nov 03 00:58:47 sorry. the variable is BBPATH (in caps) Nov 03 00:59:00 and it looks reasonable, unless there's something braindead I'm not seeing Nov 03 00:59:21 can you pastebin your local.conf? Nov 03 00:59:21 raduga, ls -l ~/oe/org.openembedded.dev/conf/bitbake.conf Nov 03 01:00:47 looks reasonable. (size is 17577, date is from-when-i-last-checkedout ) Nov 03 01:01:11 hm, weird Nov 03 01:01:26 raduga, what exactly "env|grep BB" says? Nov 03 01:02:03 BBPATH=/home/silver/oe/build:/home/silver/oe/org.openembedded.dev Nov 03 01:02:30 weird^2 Nov 03 01:02:41 psokolvsky: thanks :) Nov 03 01:02:50 raduga, last silver bullet I have: how did you install bitbake? Nov 03 01:03:12 probably something boneheaded that I'm persisting in not seeing, though (sounds like) Nov 03 01:03:35 i installed bitbake from: Nov 03 01:03:53 svn co http://svn.berlios.de/svnroot/repos/bitbake/branches/bitbake-1.6 Nov 03 01:04:07 also 1.4, which is reporting the same weirdness Nov 03 01:04:36 raduga, well, that's ok. once saw a case when some RPM was installed and it picked up stuff from god-knows-where Nov 03 01:04:39 1.6 is good Nov 03 01:04:45 ok :) Nov 03 01:05:06 raduga, well, tracing is last chance ;-) "bitbake -D " Nov 03 01:05:52 it should start with something like: Nov 03 01:05:54 DEBUG: CONF reading /home/pfalcon/linux-ppc/org.openembedded.dev/conf/bitbake.conf Nov 03 01:06:36 it reads org.openembedded.dev/conf/bitbake.conf , conf/documentation.conf , conf/sanity.conf Nov 03 01:06:46 and then collects .bb, finds none Nov 03 01:08:16 raduga, ah, cool, so you lack "conf/local.conf" in the current dir ;-) Nov 03 01:08:16 raduga: what does BBFILES in local.conf look like? Nov 03 01:08:33 yay Nov 03 01:08:42 > probably something boneheaded that I'm persisting in not seeing Nov 03 01:08:55 or in /home/silver/oe/build to be exact, but that should be current dir Nov 03 01:09:09 my local.conf was in ~/oe/build, not ~oe/build/conf Nov 03 01:09:13 ok, rejoice ;-) Nov 03 01:09:30 raduga: what distro are you building for? Nov 03 01:09:34 good night! Nov 03 01:09:47 thank you psokolovsky ;) Nov 03 01:10:00 hvontres: openzaurus-unstable hopefully Nov 03 01:10:11 maybe angstrom later Nov 03 01:11:07 sorry to waste so much of your time (sigh!) Nov 03 01:24:14 raduga: what Z do you have? Nov 03 01:25:09 akita Nov 03 01:25:21 raduga: lucky you :) Nov 03 01:25:39 couple years old, and a little the worse for wear, but, yeah lucky me ;) Nov 03 01:25:44 raduga: are you still in SD county? Nov 03 01:26:01 still at work (i need to go home) Nov 03 01:26:08 but yep. Nov 03 01:26:33 (ucsd. my feet are cold. my cat is hungry. bitbake should run just fine without me staring at it) Nov 03 01:26:41 raduga: heh.. maybe we could start a SD Zaurus anonymous chapter :) Nov 03 01:27:32 I've seen at least a few others out here. Someone on sd.cox.net who visited #zaurus briefly and then disappeared Nov 03 01:28:02 and koyote, who lives in SD sometimes, but has been AWOL from the zaurus groups for some time :/ Nov 03 01:28:46 well I am here in S. OC, not too far... Nov 03 01:29:39 and when vernor vinge saw my husky, he thought it was really cool and wanted to get one, but i don't think he ever did :/ Nov 03 01:30:01 * raduga has had a poor time proselytizing for Zaurii on campus, for some reason Nov 03 01:32:35 it seems the same crowd who run linux for "fun" seem to carry ueber-convergent phone/internet/etc pdas and laptops, and don't really see much point in a device like the Z Nov 03 01:33:25 (also, scared off by the lack of local vendors/support) Nov 03 01:35:16 heh..plus there is that $400 price tag...:) (got my poodle used for $150 ~two years ago..) Nov 03 01:36:48 the "cool people" are shelling out > $2k for their laptops, and near enough that for their super-powered-pda-phones Nov 03 01:38:41 ok. going home :) Nov 03 01:39:20 hvontres/hufnus: maybe we could meet up sometime Nov 03 01:39:43 raduga: sounds good :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Nov 03 02:59:57 2006