**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 30 03:00:00 2013 May 30 07:52:45 good morning May 30 07:56:49 morning all, hi mckoan May 30 09:14:57 opkg_install_cmd: Cannot install package packagegroup-core-qt May 30 09:15:22 as far as you know is it possible to build a Qt/x11 image ? May 30 09:25:26 morning mckoan, all May 30 09:25:33 mckoan: as far as I know May 30 09:25:51 mckoan: that's not the full error is it? what is it actually complaining about? May 30 09:28:24 bluelightning: DEBUG: Executing shell function do_rootfs May 30 09:28:35 Unknown package 'packagegroup-core-qt'. May 30 09:29:48 mckoan: there is no packagegroup-core-qt package - where is the reference to that? May 30 09:29:57 $ find meta* -name 'packagegroup-core-qt.*' May 30 09:29:58 meta/recipes-qt/packagegroups/packagegroup-core-qt.bb May 30 09:30:04 we have a packagegroup-core-qt _recipe_ yes May 30 09:30:26 if you look at that you'll see it has PACKAGES = "${PN}-demoapps" May 30 09:31:30 bluelightning: I'm missing somethin May 30 09:31:56 mckoan: what are you trying to do exactly? May 30 09:34:15 bluelightning: I cloned qt4e-demo-image.bb into qt4x11-demo-image.bb and replaced the line packagegroup-core-qt4e with packagegroup-core-qt May 30 09:34:36 I expected to get the same behaviour May 30 09:34:46 unfortunately it's not that simple May 30 09:34:53 bluelightning: I see May 30 09:34:59 packagegroup-core-qt is not just a copy of packagegroup-core-qt4e May 30 09:35:16 you'll need to dig deeper May 30 09:35:37 if you'd like to tidy this up you're welcome to do so May 30 09:36:18 bluelightning: I must do that May 30 09:38:15 bluelightning: how would you proceed? getting hints from oe-classic? May 30 09:39:39 mckoan: I would suggest looking at core-image-sato and the qt4e packagegroup/image as references May 30 09:42:21 bluelightning: ok, thx May 30 09:47:26 hi bluelightning May 30 09:47:35 hi silvio_ May 30 10:38:10 morning all May 30 10:39:36 hi pb_ May 30 10:59:03 hi bluelightning May 30 12:45:26 this fuse discussion is interesting, from a policy point of view May 30 13:42:03 as in, do we want proprietary filesystems in oe-core? May 30 13:44:08 I guess it's always been a bit of a blurry line. exFAT might be proprietary but it is fairly widespread (it's mandatory for SDXC for example). May 30 13:54:29 yeah May 30 13:54:40 also from the recipes creeping in over the long term May 30 13:54:57 in this case other software does not depend on it May 30 13:55:35 but it is a "common hardware feature" a reason to make something core May 30 13:55:53 * Crofton uses fuse with sshfs May 30 13:57:30 git on sshfs can cause nasty repository corruptions :( May 30 14:16:58 yeah, dunno. I don't think we have all that much precedent for stuff like exFAT going into oe-core, but there is plenty of stuff in there already that possibly isn't "core" by any reasonable definition, ghostscript for example. May 30 14:17:42 if it wasn't for the fact that exFAT is potentially a litigation magnet I would be inclined to say that it probably does belong in oe-core. but, as things stand, I think it should probably go somewhere else. May 30 14:19:48 but, well, it's all a bit arbitrary and at the end of the day it's Richard who has to decide. May 30 14:19:50 meta-dubious-legal :) May 30 14:19:55 heh May 30 14:20:22 fray, see above May 30 14:20:29 I do wonder whether it ought to have a LICENSE_FLAG of "get-sued-by-microsoft" or something. May 30 14:20:30 I ahdn't even thought about legal stuff May 30 14:21:18 pb_: I thought ghostscript was a dependency of something else that was core... May 30 14:21:40 well, I guess Debian think it's ok to ship, so there must be at least some body of opinion that says it's fine from a legal perspective. but, in the past, microsoft have been fairly clear that you can't implement exFAT without infringing some or other of their patents. May 30 14:21:55 making a depends map would be an interesting way to determine what is truly core May 30 14:21:56 bluelightning: it's needed for lsb, apparently. I had thought that cups might depend on it but it didn't seem to. May 30 14:22:13 pb_: Debian's policy on this stuff is broadly to ignore it unless there's an active legal problem. May 30 14:22:27 pb_: right, just did a "git grep ghostscript" myself May 30 14:23:40 bluelightning: personally I would be fairly happy to see the "only for lsb compliance" stuff disappear into some sort of meta-lsb layer, but I guess there are reasons for having it in oe-core. May 30 14:24:05 I do wonder how many folks are actually building products based on oe-core that genuinely require lsb. May 30 14:24:11 heh May 30 14:24:51 s/based on oe-core// May 30 14:24:59 well, yes, and that. May 30 14:25:40 I think the largest benefit to lsb is reducing arguments over what is core May 30 14:26:08 so most of us tolerate lsb in exchange for reduced arguing :) May 30 14:28:38 "where do we draw the line" is a difficult question May 30 17:21:41 moin May 30 18:32:59 still a good report, and not as stale as you might think... http://archive.adaic.com/docs/reports/lawlis/content.htm May 30 18:59:20 anyone built ice-3.5 with OE May 30 19:10:48 JaMa: congrats on EFL upgrade! May 30 19:11:12 I will probably use E17 as a desktop environment May 30 19:13:03 eren: :) May 30 19:13:48 I cannot think of anything but E17 for embedded desktop environment :) May 30 19:15:55 we're still using it in SHR with illume (mobile) profile May 30 19:16:34 and this upgrade was simple, upgrade to 1.8 will be worse May 30 19:17:51 JaMa: ABI/API breakge? May 30 19:17:56 breakage* May 30 19:18:28 switch to git and all efl libs merged to one sourcedir May 30 19:18:43 so it will require completely different recipes May 30 19:18:49 so meta-efl should build for RPi? May 30 19:18:52 oh, they don't add them as submodules? May 30 19:19:27 mr_science: should be no problem. Accordingly to E17 devs, it was tested on x86-32, x86-64, Atom, Power-PC, ARM (ARM9, ARM11, Cortex-A8 and more), MIPS, Sparc, and many other architectures May 30 19:20:08 eren: it's merged as also only one configure.ac with combined options from all efl libs etc.. May 30 19:20:19 JaMa: oh May 30 19:20:41 I plan to work on it when I find more time and 1.8 is more usable May 30 19:20:55 eren: thanks; i've used it in about half those environments, though not for a while May 30 19:21:15 never tried building it with oe before either May 30 19:22:06 JaMa: I am waiting for Germans to send a one document for visa. If I succeed in going there as an intern, I will work on OE full-time for 3-months May 30 19:22:27 but my RPi empcd audio player is already done, so i need something else to work on... May 30 19:22:29 maybe I can contribute to EFL recipes May 30 19:23:42 eren: did you graduate recently or is this a summer thing? May 30 19:24:12 mr_science: summer thing May 30 19:24:16 I have 2 years to go May 30 19:25:42 if you can get some TI davinci/dsp experience in before then, we'd probably be interested... May 30 19:29:32 mr_science: sure, we can keep contact. May 30 19:29:54 mr_science: what do you work on with these devices? May 30 19:30:03 if they are not secret, of course :) May 30 19:30:19 google synergy hd3 May 30 19:30:31 it's an embedded surgical camera May 30 19:32:15 oh I see May 30 19:33:19 we manufacture them and do most of the software stuff right here in lovely santa barbara May 30 19:34:20 excellent. One needs to be a lot careful I guess. I cannot think of an operator getting segfault in the middle of the operation May 30 19:35:06 yes, the requirements for medical devices are somewhere between desktop software and space launch systems May 30 19:36:07 * mr_science just switched from launch range systems to medical devices about a year and a half ago May 30 19:37:55 if you could learn a little bit about safety-critical code, that would be a big plus May 30 19:38:41 mr_science: yeah, avionics and medical stuff looks fun and dangerous to me May 30 19:38:59 I guess real-time operating systems would be a plus as well May 30 19:39:12 don't forget cool-as-hell too... May 30 19:39:20 mr_science: hehe :) May 30 19:39:35 avionics look even cooler, btw May 30 19:40:35 avionics and launch-range are pretty much the same level of rigor May 30 19:41:03 same/similar requirements, IV&V, etc May 30 19:41:29 mr_science: I heard some standards put by NATO on code in avionics May 30 19:41:40 I remember recursion is banned May 30 19:41:51 the nasa system safety and iv&v stuff is mostly publicly available May 30 19:42:07 I cannot tell the name of the standard but it's on the tip of my tongue May 30 19:42:22 http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ivv/home/index.html May 30 19:42:24 * eren had a friend who worked on auto-pilot and ground control of UAVs May 30 19:43:08 the exact applicable standards are usually specific to the domain May 30 19:43:11 ah, STANAG May 30 19:43:47 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STANAG_4586 May 30 19:44:14 launch range systems use the range safety standards plus others, avionics for public transport uses DO-178B May 30 19:45:09 ah, nato interoperability standard for uavs May 30 19:45:21 related, but different May 30 19:45:48 okay, back to testing... May 30 19:45:58 mr_science: okkie, see you later! May 30 19:46:52 eren: i'm usually on in the evenings (nerdboy) if you have safety-critical questions or whatever... May 30 19:47:38 mr_science: thanks, I would appreciate some introduction documents or keywords May 30 19:47:42 mr_science: btw, what is your timezone? May 30 19:54:36 PST until about midnight or so May 30 19:54:51 well, PDT technically May 30 19:55:53 time to install last night's build... May 30 20:11:33 we really need to get off this old arago/oe-classic setup... May 30 20:37:22 what is the indent rules for meta-oe? May 30 20:43:37 Crofton: 4 spaces IIRC May 30 20:44:41 yes May 30 20:53:07 for python and shell? May 30 20:53:17 style guide said tabs May 30 21:13:13 * kergoth sticks to 4 spaces everywhere for the few layers he maintains, too. configuring your editor indent to behave sensibly with two indent schemes in a single file is a pain in the ass May 30 22:34:16 i thought i read somewhere that tabs would no longer be supported at some point May 30 22:34:37 so yeah, i switched to spaces too May 30 23:27:42 * mr_science hands scoutcamper|away some rope and duct tape May 31 02:04:49 arr **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri May 31 02:59:58 2013