**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 21 02:59:57 2019
Nov 21 11:51:03 <Crofton|work> OK I ned to remove a couple of packages from an SDK, anyone know how?
Nov 21 12:06:25 <smurray> Crofton|work: probably _remove'ing stuff from TOOLCHAIN_TARGET_TASK or TOOLCHAIN_HOST_TASK as required, but could be easier to define a base image that leaves out stuff to avoid pulling them in with populate_sdk?
Nov 21 12:06:52 <Crofton|work> might be the answer
Nov 21 12:07:30 <Crofton|work> in this case mosh/mosh-server suck in some perll thing likely without native-sdk
Nov 21 12:14:03 <Crofton|work> seems like it comes in via target-sdk-provides-dummy
Nov 21 14:02:08 <tlwoerner> "...and partner with independent teams in disparate geographic locations" really means => "all your meetings will be at either 11pm or 4am your time"
Nov 21 14:02:23 <Crofton|work> so true
Nov 21 14:04:57 <tlwoerner> when i was graduating from uni and was looking for my first jobs, it felt like every job ad required 12+ years of experience for even the simplest roles
Nov 21 14:06:19 <tlwoerner> in fact (around that time) there was quite a lot of hulabaloo when someone posted a job ad looking for 10+ years of java experience when, at that time, java was only (say) 5 years old (i forget the exact numbers)
Nov 21 14:08:21 <tlwoerner> yet here is a job ad looking for a *senior* developer but only asking for 3+ years (?) and that seems to be the trend nowadays. i can't remember the last time i saw a job ad looking for any type of role that required more than 5 years experience
Nov 21 14:10:02 <LetoThe2nd> tlwoerner: because those who acutally are like 10+x years on the business are either so sought after that they don't need to look at job ads anymore, or not worth more than a 3yr guy
Nov 21 14:11:12 <LetoThe2nd> if i was looking for a job, i wouldn't read stupid industry offers, but call a few "friends" and ask if they wanted to hire.
Nov 21 14:11:37 <tlwoerner> LetoThe2nd: yea, that's probably it, they want a senior developer, but they want to pay them like a new-ish grad (this is not meant to be MS-specific)
Nov 21 14:11:48 <LetoThe2nd> its not at all, i know
Nov 21 14:12:13 <tlwoerner> yes, true
Nov 21 14:18:14 <tgamblin> I've known a few people that get the "senior" title conferred on them in the startup/tiny company world because the more senior person leaves, or they're just the first person hired into the role, too
Nov 21 14:18:32 <Crofton|work> the traditional method of title inflation
Nov 21 14:18:53 <Crofton|work> pretty sure I was senior before 30 at something
Nov 21 14:21:22 <rburton> tlwoerner: speaking of which its my 11pm meeting today
Nov 21 14:21:56 <rburton> there are downsides to living 8 hours of time difference away from your management
Nov 21 14:22:12 <rburton> up side is that micromanagement literally can't happen :)
Nov 21 14:24:16 <tlwoerner> tgamblin: i've seen that too, especially with consulting companies, they want to tell their (potential) clients that all their developers are seniors (and are therefore expensed at a senior rate)
Nov 21 14:25:13 <tlwoerner> Crofton|work: i'm pretty sure you were born a crotchety old senior! lol
Nov 21 14:26:12 <tlwoerner> rburton: haha. late start then? ;-)
Nov 21 14:28:02 <JaMa> "either 11pm or 4am your time" or both if you happen to live in the middle TimeZone between 2 offices you work with
Nov 21 14:28:24 <tlwoerner> JaMa: the non-exclusive "or" then?
Nov 21 14:29:42 <JaMa> with US being -9 and Korea being +8 hours from me, I have relatively quiet period when there is some light outside :)
Nov 21 14:30:22 <JaMa> not that I ever go outside or even let the light through the windows..
Nov 21 14:32:09 <tlwoerner> if you live far enough north or south, you'll get several months of one or the other regardless of the time
Nov 21 14:32:55 <JaMa> roller shades are great, wife only complains that attaching motor to them in my room wasn't necessary (or she wants to take my remote and expose me to light)
Nov 21 14:33:46 <JaMa> tlwoerner: and then move to the other side for next half year? :)
Nov 21 14:33:47 <tlwoerner> close the shades and throw away the remote
Nov 21 14:34:07 <JaMa> that's what I did :)
Nov 21 14:34:11 <tlwoerner> lol
Nov 21 14:42:53 <rburton> tlwoerner: lazy friday for sure
Nov 21 14:44:32 <rburton> JaMa: oregon is -8 and penang is +8.  luckily we've managed to have relatively few meetings.
Nov 21 14:48:47 <tlwoerner> rburton: it's friday already?
Nov 21 14:49:07 <rburton> tlwoerner: its only 3pm here, so lazy tomorrow morning
Nov 21 14:52:56 <Crofton|work> Can you guys quickly look for blunders before we start spamming: 
Nov 21 14:52:57 <Crofton|work> https://pretalx.com/oe-workshop-2020/cfp
Nov 21 15:02:37 <vmeson> Crofton|work: This line seems grammatically odd to me. s/We abide by a high level of conduct. Please review the official Code of Conduct statement./We abide by an official Code of Conduct; please review the code./
Nov 21 15:03:11 <vmeson> I know that changes the meaning somewhat but that's what I came up with so far.
Nov 21 15:03:42 <Crofton|work> lol, that was reviewed by somone competent :)
Nov 21 15:04:16 <Crofton|work> vmeson, thanks. We can easily edit it, so will do a batch
Nov 21 15:04:27 <Crofton|work> I lready tweaked it a bit just to check
Nov 21 15:04:52 <vmeson> Crofton|work: k. You might move the date/location to the top of the page.
Nov 21 15:05:30 <Crofton|work> Yeah, I ahd that thought looking at it. This is the problem wriing things and knowing too much
Nov 21 15:05:46 <Crofton|work> Also, https://pretalx.com/oe-workshop-2020/
Nov 21 15:06:26 <Crofton|work> but my primary stress is over the CFP, tie is short, so please people submit and please do it early so I do not stress and have to do all the presentations myself :)
Nov 21 16:35:04 <armpit> Code of conduct... I am out
Nov 21 16:35:59 <LetoThe2nd> armpit: you already triggered me with your yesterday proposal. prepare for a lot of good but not even half-baked ideas!
Nov 21 16:38:04 <armpit> the summit one ?
Nov 21 16:38:20 <LetoThe2nd> yep
Nov 21 16:38:30 <khem> Crofton|work: we should include new users/developers experience with project 
Nov 21 16:38:52 <Crofton|work> Ad what as a bullet?
Nov 21 16:38:55 <khem> yes 
Nov 21 16:39:09 <Crofton|work> hmm how to word
Nov 21 16:39:25 <khem> invite talks from people who are not seasoned developers but have had recent exposure to it via work or what have you
Nov 21 16:39:58 <khem> It would be good to get some fresh ideas before they deal with the project and get demented :)
Nov 21 16:40:03 <Crofton|work> Yeah
Nov 21 16:40:13 <Crofton|work> and make sure these people are welcomes
Nov 21 16:40:42 <kergoth> good idea
Nov 21 16:41:42 <Crofton|work> * New user and developer's experience reports
Nov 21 16:41:51 <khem> or you could also invite critics, asking for why the project does not make sense 
Nov 21 16:43:41 <Crofton|work> hmmm
Nov 21 16:43:43 <khem> Crofton|work: yeah that would be good subheading 
Nov 21 16:43:50 <Crofton|work> I'll think about that :)
Nov 21 16:44:02 <Crofton|work> Done
Nov 21 16:44:07 <khem> Crofton|work: as community its always good to introspect 
Nov 21 16:44:19 <Crofton|work> Yeah I know
Nov 21 16:44:21 <khem> so we remain grounded 
Nov 21 16:44:36 <Crofton|work> just hard to get people to come and tell you that you suck :)
Nov 21 16:45:03 <khem> well, not so hard if you explicitly ask for 
Nov 21 16:46:01 <khem> but I think the cfp looks very impressive 
Nov 21 16:47:20 <Crofton|work> We (OE board) want to try out pretalx, so costs us money, but lets us spend time on content, not web stuff
Nov 21 16:47:35 <Crofton|work> and I am lookin gfor a long term solution via SPI
Nov 21 16:47:52 <Crofton|work> but right now, just need submissions and solve ticket sales :)
Nov 21 16:48:05 <khem> nod
Nov 21 16:49:41 <Crofton|work> tryign to use as many open source solutions as possible :)
Nov 21 17:02:07 <Crofton|work> Afterards we will have to review how we did everything
Nov 21 22:05:31 <tlwoerner> https://www.udemy.com/course/embedded-linux-with-the-raspberry-pi/
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Nov 22 02:59:57 2019