**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Oct 14 02:59:56 2009 Oct 14 02:59:58 Bluetooth Retrieve Supported Features Oct 14 04:51:20 has anyone heard from ppman? Oct 14 04:51:49 I guess we are going to work together and htc msm support and I do cdma but he hasn't answered Oct 14 04:54:24 Never seen ppman here Oct 14 04:55:28 Does MSM support 07.10 mux? Oct 14 04:56:07 no, we don't need it Oct 14 04:56:19 it is premuxed? Oct 14 04:56:22 we have deidicated AT shared memory tty Oct 14 04:56:32 and one for ppp Oct 14 04:56:46 explain shared memory tty Oct 14 04:56:50 it's very similar to g1 driver Oct 14 04:57:10 Thing is, there are some operations that take a while Oct 14 04:57:15 an area of memory in shared ram with head/tail and soft interrupts when data is available Oct 14 04:57:25 They shouldn't block others, hence a mux is actually nice Oct 14 04:57:26 like? Oct 14 04:57:35 sim? Oct 14 04:57:35 e.g. CCFC query Oct 14 04:57:53 those are handled by unsols Oct 14 04:58:18 you can look at libreference-ril in android.git.kernel.org core.git Oct 14 04:59:58 There's no core.git Oct 14 05:03:10 libreference-ril sounds like a stock AT modem Oct 14 05:03:30 I don't see how this will help you get past CCFC or other long running queries Oct 14 05:08:01 not sure Oct 14 05:08:07 must be base.git Oct 14 05:08:43 how does it block? Oct 14 05:08:49 I don't understand Oct 14 05:09:23 The way AT modems work is that once you have a request outstanding (e.g. pressed enter) the command is executing Oct 14 05:09:36 we can't support mux from what any of us have seen Oct 14 05:09:39 Some modems support command abortion, but until it returns, no new commands can be put in Oct 14 05:09:53 but it's used this way on g1 from androids ril Oct 14 05:10:06 I'm sure cal waiting/forwarding/whatever work Oct 14 05:10:11 in android Oct 14 05:10:30 you can also adb logcat radio and see exactly what it's doing Oct 14 05:10:35 Yep, hence I'm wondering whether they use some special protocol or plain AT commands Oct 14 05:10:43 for? Oct 14 05:10:54 driving the modem Oct 14 05:11:01 the only other protocol is qualcomm dm Oct 14 05:11:18 but that doesn't seem to be used for any gsm tasks Oct 14 05:11:37 what doesn't work? Oct 14 05:12:17 It will work, it'll just be shitty without a muxer Oct 14 05:13:56 well, it's qualcomm's design Oct 14 05:14:27 you know data is over a netdev right? Oct 14 05:14:52 and brought up over something called qmi using a ascii protocol on /dev/qmi? Oct 14 05:15:07 i thought logcat didn't show actual AT commands? Oct 14 05:15:10 I think apn is there also Oct 14 05:15:17 maybe not Oct 14 05:15:18 Fun, yet another custom protocol :) Oct 14 05:15:26 * dilinger recalls not being able to see what was going across the, uh, "wire" Oct 14 05:15:26 but it gives tokens or commands Oct 14 05:15:41 yeah Oct 14 05:15:49 but atchat is good at those Oct 14 05:16:00 this one is something like up:rmnet0 Oct 14 05:16:18 don't have the details since the user end is in a closed binary Oct 14 05:16:31 the kernel end is pretty well documented in source Oct 14 05:17:21 Not sure if this is it: http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/hardware/ril.git;a=summary Oct 14 05:17:31 But that one doesn't have any call forwarding in it Oct 14 05:17:34 should be Oct 14 05:17:42 the actual ril is closed Oct 14 05:17:46 oh Oct 14 05:18:22 Just some really shitty voice / network registration implementation Oct 14 05:19:13 we can dump0 writes on the kernel side Oct 14 05:19:21 reads/writes Oct 14 05:19:43 thankfully this binary does not mmap shared ram like some others do Oct 14 05:23:59 Lol, actually reference ril definitely does not support mux or call forward Oct 14 05:24:15 I guess they don't actually want to share those secrets ;) Oct 14 05:24:19 but not on msm hardware? Oct 14 05:24:28 oh Oct 14 05:24:38 anywhere, they support a select set of commands Oct 14 05:24:40 well we can add tracing to a trout kernel Oct 14 05:24:47 not too hard Oct 14 05:24:50 The rest they just return not implemented Oct 14 05:26:14 That stack is designed by morons too, a giant switch/case statement of doom Oct 14 05:27:23 http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/hardware/ril.git;a=blob;f=reference-ril/reference-ril.c;h=65170fcd172ab9078fe26989b4c453e5db750ce9;hb=HEAD Oct 14 05:27:29 Search for onRequest and enjoy :) Oct 14 05:32:15 it's confusing Oct 14 05:32:34 I can actually follow ofono drivers Oct 14 05:32:48 yeah, the ril code is awful :/ Oct 14 05:32:57 i can't imagine what the closed stuff looks like Oct 14 05:33:03 * dilinger wants android to go away Oct 14 05:33:32 probably looks even scarier, considering there's more commands to implement :) Oct 14 05:33:50 reference ril only does calls, sms, netreg + sim pin/read/write Oct 14 05:34:05 as well as some acoustic stuff, eri, gps, emergency mode and more Oct 14 05:34:30 oh, programming/ota probably drm and diag stuff Oct 14 05:34:43 yah, but that's a drop in the bucket compared to what else you need to do :) Oct 14 05:53:05 denkenz: one small change i want to make Oct 14 05:53:58 hfp plugins and driver will be named as 'hfp' and 'hfpmodem'. Oct 14 05:54:13 so we will have plugins/hfp.c and drivers/hfpmodem/hfp.c and voicecall.c. Oct 14 05:57:20 somebody in #android says the gsm service codes work on g1 Oct 14 05:57:49 and magic has a ui Oct 14 11:30:06 /msg NickServ Oct 14 11:30:22 /msg NickServ help Oct 14 11:52:20 hello. Dumb question. But does ofono use pppd for network connections? Oct 14 11:52:48 i am trying to ask question(s) while i read source :) Oct 14 14:05:24 to make a device (mc75) with different baud settings, serial port, should i make a "sim" plugin Oct 14 14:09:30 rraasch: on this channel there are many many questions... but few anwser, so don't hope too much :) Oct 14 14:11:43 nice to know, thanks Oct 14 14:11:52 rraasch: nope. Oct 14 14:12:38 rraasch: Currently you won't find much GPRS stuff in git, anyway. There have been some patches on the ML, though. Oct 14 14:13:57 thanks. I am wanting to use the pppd type functionality with the dbus interface, and was told that ofono was the most active project using the gsm701 multiplex channels Oct 14 14:14:53 which i see now that (docs/overview.txt) says that gprs is not yet implemented, ug Oct 14 14:15:06 neomilium: Did you have something on your mind? Oct 14 14:15:45 is anyone else needing the gprs (pppd) functionality? Oct 14 14:15:53 rraasch: doc/dataconnectionmanager-api.txt describes the interface design Oct 14 14:16:13 akiniemi: thanks. i'll start reading Oct 14 14:17:55 akiniemi: not this time, thanks ! Oct 14 14:18:11 akiniemi: Is it the intention of the daemon to use pppd? I am kinda' new to GSM. When the operator changes, does the modem need to get a new IP add? Oct 14 14:19:13 I guess what i mean is if the pppd is started from the beginning, is it the ofono's resp. to start/stop pppd? Oct 14 14:19:33 when carrier changes, pin # not entered yet. etc Oct 14 14:20:23 rraasch: isimodem doesn't use AT at all, and those that do are supposed to handle PPP by themselves. Oct 14 14:21:30 IOW, ofonod will give you a network interface and paramters. holtmann, denkenz can fill you in on the details Oct 14 14:21:49 s/paramters/parameters/ Oct 14 14:23:23 so, short answer is no pppd Oct 14 14:26:15 akiniemi: ok. so if i use a 3GPP type protocol (mc75) which uses AT commands, then the pppd is controlled sychronously outside the daemon Oct 14 14:27:56 akiniemi: thanks for you input. Oct 14 15:18:12 we won't use pppd Oct 14 15:18:22 Instead we're working on an internal userspace ppp stack Oct 14 15:18:31 and tun/tap device integration Oct 14 15:18:44 So the entire thing will be done in-process in oFono Oct 14 22:02:01 hello people Oct 14 22:02:45 can anyone kindly fill me in on what ofono really is besides being a new mobile OS? Oct 14 22:03:10 Well, first off, it is not a mobile OS Oct 14 22:03:21 mmmhn Oct 14 22:03:31 Second, it is a project to create an open source telephony stack for Linux Oct 14 22:03:32 so what is it? Oct 14 22:04:26 http://git.kernel.org/?p=network/ofono/ofono.git;a=tree;f=doc;h=f0fd8a7a11227dd537a0ef60f7d743427fb42c8e;hb=HEAD Oct 14 22:04:34 I suggest you read up on overview.txt and ofono-paper.txt Oct 14 22:04:35 oh, i see...but isnt it supposed to run on mobiles? I actually got interested after visiting this link : http://www.itbusinessedge.com/cm/community/news/mt/blog/nokia-and-intel-developing-open-source-mobile-os/?cs=32700 Oct 14 22:05:14 It is targetted at mobile devies, since they're the most likely to have mobile telephony features, e.g. GSM, CDMA, etc Oct 14 22:06:20 ok, but how old is this project..The website seems to contain little or no documentation Oct 14 22:07:06 The official launch date was May 11, it is about 6 months older than that Oct 14 22:07:10 All of it is in the docs Oct 14 22:09:55 i really appreciate denkez. Now, i'm not new to programming...have done some wonderful stuffs in java and python but i'v got this idea and i think i have to develop on a mobile OS-which is open source of course Oct 14 22:10:22 I'v come across android..but i'm still out looking for any other, any advice? Oct 14 22:10:57 why i'm not really into android is it seems its been made for high end mobile phones i.e in the smartphone class Oct 14 22:11:31 Android/Palm/Intel/Nokia (Maemo) all use Linux as their OS Oct 14 22:12:19 Android replaces much of the userspace, Intel/Nokia don't Oct 14 22:12:31 Whether you call Android an OS is debatable, more like platform Oct 14 22:13:06 mmhn Oct 14 22:14:45 a platform...but if there was really anything like a 'blank' phone, I could develop my own custom os based on android, ryt? Oct 14 22:15:05 'blank' phone, i mean 'bare hardware' Oct 14 22:15:34 You can get an android developer phone, you can also try OpenMoko Freerunner Oct 14 22:16:00 Not much else available Oct 14 22:16:16 If you have serious cash you can also look into TI Omap Zoom/Zoom2 Oct 14 22:16:23 But those are like $1000+ Oct 14 22:20:22 U know, i hooked up with this guy lately--he designs gadgets, phones inclusive so am thinkin and then gets them manufactured...They all come with a particular OS whihc i really dont know. The interface is similar to those phones that come in from china...but am thinkin still, y dont i develop my own phones with this feature and that feature, so that's what's promptin me to all this...What path in your opinion do think i should take. I believe there should a Oct 14 22:20:22 lready be clones of the android phone--i mean HTC and some others already have models in the market Oct 14 22:22:22 I doubt I'm qualified to give you advice like that :) Oct 14 22:22:43 ok Oct 14 22:23:35 well thanks a lot, you'v been of good assistance Oct 15 02:50:29 den: ? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Oct 15 02:59:56 2009