**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Feb 28 23:59:56 2005 Mar 01 11:03:06 beewoolie's site down? Mar 01 11:11:06 <[g2]> dunno Mar 01 11:11:19 <[g2]> He's traveling maybe it went down Mar 01 11:12:16 oh thats right Mar 01 11:12:23 he's in nyc getting snowed in Mar 01 11:12:32 [g2]: btw, howdy Mar 01 11:12:40 <[g2]> howdy prpplague Mar 01 11:12:49 <[g2]> getting excited for the big move ? Mar 01 11:13:06 [g2]: hows the escagot? Mar 01 11:13:18 <[g2]> tasty .... Mar 01 11:13:19 escargot Mar 01 11:13:40 <[g2]> We're getting really close to beta Mar 01 11:13:45 nice Mar 01 11:13:59 went several places looking for one the other day Mar 01 11:14:04 no luck Mar 01 11:14:23 <[g2]> There's a licensing question about the Intel NPE binaries and redistribution Mar 01 11:14:33 [g2]: yea thats what i gathered Mar 01 11:14:58 <[g2]> and an issue with hd access under heavy use (that's likely fixed in a later rev of the kernel) Mar 01 11:15:14 <[g2]> and some minor glitches but it's all running Mar 01 11:15:36 [g2]: yea saw about the heavy use thing in lak earlier Mar 01 11:15:45 <[g2]> We can boot through switchbox to nfs, jffs2 on Flash, external hd or usb stics Mar 01 11:16:19 lovely Mar 01 11:16:30 i got to get crackin on adding mmc support to apex Mar 01 11:17:05 <[g2]> yeah once my JTAG enable FatSlug arrives I'm stoked about APEX Mar 01 11:17:09 <[g2]> and flashing it Mar 01 11:36:57 anyone had problems with a processor executing illegal ops codes when the flash is blank, before the jtag kicks in? Mar 01 11:38:12 <[g2]> dunno Mar 01 11:42:12 prpplague, thats why nTRST exists. Mar 01 11:42:29 to hold the target in reset while powering up. Mar 01 11:43:13 ka6sox-office: right Mar 01 11:43:31 ka6sox-office: but alot of boards have nTRST tied to nRST Mar 01 11:56:26 ka6sox-office: i've not beeing using nTRST or nRST on my jtag software Mar 01 11:56:46 ka6sox-office: adding it now Mar 01 11:59:27 cool! Mar 01 12:01:55 ka6sox-office: been having too many problems with illegal instructions occuring with blank flash Mar 01 12:03:27 prpplague, watch the Vcc from the target and count to 100 Mar 01 12:04:46 ka6sox-office: ?? Mar 01 12:05:00 ka6sox-office: what am i looking for? Mar 01 12:15:29 I watch the Vcc from the target on the cable coming into the programmer and then release nTRST after a period of time. Mar 01 12:16:28 ka6sox-office: how are you watching it? Mar 01 12:17:31 with a parallel Pod I cobbled together on an S3 Board Mar 01 12:17:48 ka6sox-office: oh Mar 01 12:18:08 ka6sox-office: so you are using something custom Mar 01 12:18:44 it solved a problem I was having with the MPC652. Mar 01 12:20:19 ka6sox-office: ahh Mar 01 12:20:43 er 862T Mar 01 12:21:15 ka6sox-office: well i was planning to holder nRST , then issue nTRST, then release nRST Mar 01 12:21:41 okay...each target is different. Mar 01 12:21:47 so your method may work. Mar 01 12:22:36 ka6sox-office: dont know yet, thats just the plan Mar 01 12:22:47 ka6sox-office: gotta add the nRST Mar 01 12:23:05 k Mar 01 12:24:01 ka6sox-office: so, your procedure is to hold nTRST low, wait till you see a Vcc present, then wait 100 count before bringing nTRST high ? Mar 01 12:24:36 yes. Mar 01 12:24:48 ahh Mar 01 12:24:52 makes sense Mar 01 14:09:40 hi tim Mar 01 14:09:49 * TimRiker nods Mar 01 14:10:15 TimRiker: these guys are working on a "pod" like device to jtag emulation Mar 01 14:10:27 pod? Mar 01 14:10:46 goal is a opensource BDI like device. Mar 01 14:10:48 TimRiker: most of the higher end jtag emulators are actually stand alone computers Mar 01 14:11:16 there are a ton of tools around. but's it's all disjointed. Mar 01 14:11:28 TimRiker: agreed Mar 01 14:11:42 yes...I've been looking into them and they are all for different architectures. Mar 01 14:11:47 TimRiker: they are starting to come together as more ppl are doing low level dev Mar 01 14:12:37 TimRiker: http://fjtag.sourceforge.net/ Mar 01 14:12:42 there's russ's mtd over jtag, and rmk's jtag stuff, and jflash, jtag-tools, the opence or whatever, etc. Mar 01 14:13:03 TimRiker: exactly Mar 01 14:13:15 TimRiker: plus a ton of others from handhelds.org Mar 01 14:13:21 * TimRiker nods. Mar 01 14:13:23 too many tool eh? Mar 01 14:13:34 a wiki page with all the pointer would be a good start anyway. Mar 01 14:13:53 we have openjtag.net as a wiki and could aggregate them. Mar 01 14:14:03 hehe, we already have a JTAG page on the wiki Mar 01 14:14:10 probably just need to add some more info Mar 01 14:14:23 TimRiker: on the elinux.org wiki that is Mar 01 14:14:24 http://www.elinux.org/wiki/JTAG <- that one? Mar 01 14:14:29 TimRiker: yea Mar 01 14:14:41 * TimRiker like is sans www ie: http://elinux.org/wiki/JTAG Mar 01 14:15:35 TimRiker: i started on that awhile back Mar 01 14:15:51 TimRiker: just haven't been too focused for about 2 weeks Mar 01 14:16:11 guess i should ad some more info Mar 01 14:17:04 TimRiker, what do you see as needing to be done to make it easier for low level devs? Mar 01 14:18:31 well I'd start with a ceap answer like the holly gates dongle and add support for a cheap dev board like the osk5912 or the gumstix etc. Mar 01 14:18:55 then I'd be a good thing to put together a walk through as most kernel engineers have never used jtag. Mar 01 14:18:56 TimRiker: first problem with the hg dongle is the lack of nRST and nTRST Mar 01 14:19:27 I though about presenting at OLS re jtag, but decided I might never get the time to throw the whole thing together. Mar 01 14:19:39 okay so a good howto for using jtag. Mar 01 14:19:48 yea that would be good Mar 01 14:19:50 prpplague: do any of the other wigglers have nRST / nTRST ? Mar 01 14:19:57 TimRiker: some do, some don't Mar 01 14:20:01 TimRiker: it varies Mar 01 14:20:11 TimRiker: but to be reliable you really need them Mar 01 14:20:31 some devices (like fpga's and cpld's don't care Mar 01 14:20:37 only procs care. Mar 01 14:20:58 well, the software could work with any of them, but the docs should show how to build a good, cheap one. would be nice if someone sold them for cheap too. Mar 01 14:21:11 TimRiker: hehe Mar 01 14:21:13 I sold the hg ones for $30ish? can't recall. Mar 01 14:21:26 TimRiker: seen the topic on #elinux lately? Mar 01 14:21:41 TimRiker, the $30 ones a mostly Parallel port types that are limited by the host driver. Mar 01 14:21:54 prpplague: your hg's have the nRST / nTRST ? Mar 01 14:21:58 TimRiker: yep Mar 01 14:22:23 so flashing a RedBoot bootloader takes 40 odd minutes Mar 01 14:22:49 ka6sox-office: the point is that folks need to be able to try it out on the cheap. then thinking about spending more for a faster interface is the next step. Mar 01 14:23:02 TimRiker: next step is usb Mar 01 14:23:18 TimRiker: introducing the ftdi 2322 chip Mar 01 14:23:25 ka6sox-office: I could reflash all 4 meg on the tux in about 30 minutes with an hg dongle. Mar 01 14:23:29 TimRiker, so what is really needed is documentation that is better. so that its not so scary. Mar 01 14:23:42 TimRiker: http://www.dlpdesign.com/usb/2232m.html Mar 01 14:24:06 ka6sox-office: yea, understanding whats involved is a big thing Mar 01 14:24:07 the ixp42x BSR is a whopping 498 bytes. Mar 01 14:24:24 ka6sox-office: i spent about 2 weeks doing nothing but research Mar 01 14:24:28 prpplague: cost? Mar 01 14:24:42 TimRiker: that module is about $35 for prototyping Mar 01 14:25:03 TimRiker: but actually production cost is about $15 Mar 01 14:25:04 dyoung-logger: youch. Mar 01 14:25:04 still needs a cable built for it. Mar 01 14:25:17 er dyoung-zzzz sheesh. =) Mar 01 14:25:41 ka6sox-away: usb cables are cheap or you mean the other end? Mar 01 14:26:06 documenting the various likely jtag "standard" pinouts would be a Good Thing. Mar 01 14:26:08 so we have a FT2232/CPLD board in design right now to provide the function. Mar 01 14:26:09 USB -> jtag. Mar 01 14:26:30 the CPLD is to provide glue and level adaptation. Mar 01 14:26:47 dyoung: nod. what software are you going to run on it? Mar 01 14:26:48 dyoung: we sent the pcb layout to the production area friday for some proto;s Mar 01 14:26:54 as well as configuration to different styles of end cables. Mar 01 14:27:01 dyoung: stickly an inhouse test Mar 01 14:27:53 TimRiker, I'm a hardware/VHDL guy...so I leave that "high" level stuff to others. Mar 01 14:28:00 Software... Thats kind of up on the air right now. its tempting to make a cable library for some existing jtag tool, but which one? Mar 01 14:28:50 Havnd had enough time to think about it yet. Mar 01 14:29:26 ka6sox-office: however, that's exactly the issue. there are tons of decent jtag emulators available. the world does not need another one. each of them works well if you use it with the paired windows only development toolkit that the vendor tests it with. but very few work with linux native tools. Mar 01 14:29:30 eventually something cheap like the NSLU2 could be used as a BDM. Mar 01 14:29:56 so most linux developers have not used them, and are not likely to use the as few other developers recommend them. Mar 01 14:30:29 but as we move towards more embedded work they will be important. Mar 01 14:31:25 TimRiker: asset has a great boundary scan tutorial on their web site Mar 01 14:31:32 I've been in embedded work for quite a few years now, and I still rarely use jtag. I used the hg dongle to bootstrap dead tuxscreen's, but I did not use it for any of the development. Mar 01 14:31:51 prpplague: using open tools that linux developers can download? Mar 01 14:32:04 so its really only important for bootloader development. Mar 01 14:32:06 TimRiker: well i can speak from experience, using jtag for initial board bring up is essential Mar 01 14:32:22 TimRiker: no just a jtag tutorial Mar 01 14:32:31 TimRiker: not really platform or os specific Mar 01 14:32:58 TimRiker: just saying we might add a link on the jtag for it Mar 01 14:33:04 jtag page Mar 01 14:33:12 prpplague: I've done initial board bringup many times, and not used jtag for it. not the best way, but still the most popular in the community. course commercial shops don't go that route... Mar 01 14:33:45 prpplague: sure. TI has some nice docs too, but most of them presume you are running code composer studio. Mar 01 14:34:11 TimRiker: agreed, i've done it without as well Mar 01 14:34:14 TimRiker, you would recommend using jtag for initial board bringup for the community. Mar 01 14:34:36 ka6sox-office: jtag debugging tools that "knew" about the memory map and can handle driver debugging are also very nice. Mar 01 14:34:37 TimRiker: but like my problems last week with the sdram init sequence, it would have taken me 10x as long to find that without jtag Mar 01 14:34:57 ka6sox-office: if I knew of a decent software tool to use, sure. Mar 01 14:35:06 that is what I'm refering to...like what we use the BDI2000 for at my shop. Mar 01 14:35:12 ka6sox-office: as I don't know of one, I don't recommend it. Mar 01 14:35:39 TimRiker: we are using lauterbach trace32 which runs under linux Mar 01 14:35:39 prpplague: true. what software did you use? Mar 01 14:35:48 TimRiker: hehe, i knew you were gonna ask Mar 01 14:36:42 oh sure. now tell everyone they need $$ to buy a lauterbach. as "Trust me, you need this" and it does not go over well. Mar 01 14:36:45 TimRiker: http://www.ezytech.com/asset/pdfs/boundaryscan_tutorial.pdf Mar 01 14:37:21 TimRiker: hehe, i said thats what i used this week, my goal is to have the same functionality as the laugterbach Mar 01 14:37:34 TimRiker: that is what I mean...for most people in the community they don't want to spend money on a lauterbach or Abatron. Mar 01 14:38:18 so we could use a relatively inexpensive jtag cable and a "embedded host" to act like a abatron/lauterbach. Mar 01 14:38:42 but using opensource software. Mar 01 14:38:55 TimRiker: most of the ppl here are hardware ppl Mar 01 14:40:09 TimRiker: that pdf is probably one of the best jtag introductions i've found Mar 01 14:41:37 prpplague: nice tutorial indeed. Mar 01 14:41:50 TimRiker: did you look at the screen shots for fjtag? Mar 01 14:42:41 prpplague: where? Mar 01 14:43:22 TimRiker: http://fjtag.sourceforge.net/ Mar 01 14:43:34 http://fjtag.sourceforge.net/fjtag.gif Mar 01 14:44:29 * TimRiker nods. cool enough. what was the ce related project on sf that had jtag tools... hmm. Mar 01 14:44:50 wince Mar 01 14:45:07 ah: http://openwince.sourceforge.net/jtag/ Mar 01 14:45:37 http://jtagtools.sourceforge.net/ Mar 01 14:45:39 is another. Mar 01 14:46:10 check the bottom of the page on the openwince link. shows a typical session. Mar 01 14:49:32 TimRiker: lots to learn about jtag Mar 01 14:49:36 TimRiker: lots that jtag can do Mar 01 14:50:24 TimRiker: i just started work on an app to use the modified hg dongle to board level circuit tests Mar 01 14:51:45 nice Mar 01 14:52:21 there is soooo much more that jtag can do IF we spend the time to learn and use it. Mar 01 15:00:07 <[g2]-away> TimRiker, welcome! Mar 01 15:04:11 anyone who has used a Abatron type device to debug device drivers or boot problems loves the help. Mar 01 15:08:12 want a bot in here? logging, factoids, seen, botmail, etc. purl is not presently in many channels. Mar 01 15:08:14 but at $2K + $1K/architecture. Mar 01 15:08:21 please. Mar 01 15:09:00 TimRiker, I would like that. Mar 01 15:09:03 very nice. Mar 01 15:09:06 purl: chanset #openjtag autojoin Mar 01 15:09:06 autojoin for #openjtag is 'purl' Mar 01 15:09:10 purl: save Mar 01 15:09:10 saved user and chan files Mar 01 15:09:14 purl: logs? Mar 01 15:09:15 apt/ibot/jbot/purl all log to http://ibot.rikers.org// where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/.html.gz Mar 01 15:09:30 sweet. Mar 01 15:09:35 short char is ~ so: Mar 01 15:09:38 ~seen prpplague Mar 01 15:09:40 prpplague is currently on #openjtag (8h 27m 35s) #oe (8h 27m 35s) #elinux (8h 27m 35s) #handhelds.org (8h 27m 35s) #ol (8h 27m 35s). Has said a total of 107 messages. Is idling for 1h 26s Mar 01 15:10:30 same as in #nslu2-linux? Mar 01 15:11:18 purl: chanset autojoin Mar 01 15:11:18 Showing autojoin values on all channels... Mar 01 15:11:18 autojoin = ibot(16): #brlcad #bzflag #elinux #familiar #gllug #gpe #handhelds.org #intimate #oe #opencombat #openzaurus #opie #tomcat #uclibc #utah #zaurus Mar 01 15:11:18 autojoin = apt(10): #debian #debian-bots #debian-br #debian-france #debianppc #kde #linuxpakistan #lugwv #palmchat #slug Mar 01 15:11:19 autojoin = NOT-SET(18): #brits #debian-ops #debianplanet #fightthepower #freedesktop #gct #kde-users #kiss #linuxinfo #mobitopia #nerds #newircd #ols #perl #plugaz #project24 #tfp _default Mar 01 15:11:20 autojoin = purl(8): # #botpark #devlounge #dub #openjtag #pegasos.org #teleconf #ud Mar 01 15:11:22 autojoin = jbot(15): #aegis #asterisk #asterisk-doc #byumug #bzleague #how #ipaq #magnia #nslu2-linux #ol #orkut #storm #tacobeam #uphpu #va Mar 01 15:11:25 End of list. Mar 01 15:12:04 so jbot is in #nslu2-linux and is the same bot. Mar 01 15:12:25 are the factoids shared across them? Mar 01 15:12:38 ~nslu2-rules Mar 01 15:12:39 hmm... nslu2-rules is 1) Those who ask the questions, update the wiki, 2) Those who complain about the doco, update the wiki, 3) Friends don't let friends flash custom firmware without confirmed RedBoot access, 4) Friends don't let friends flash custom bootloaders without confirmed JTAG access. Mar 01 15:12:44 yup Mar 01 15:12:49 everything is shared. it's the same process multiconnected. Mar 01 15:12:57 cool Mar 01 15:15:24 TimRiker, mysql backend? Mar 01 15:24:41 sqlite for mine. mysql is also supported. Mar 01 15:26:58 i"m using mysql. Mar 01 15:27:07 okay thanks. Mar 01 20:04:01 ~seen ka6sox Mar 01 20:04:03 ka6sox <~ka6sox@ka6sox.nslu2-linux> was last seen on IRC in channel #nslu2-linux, 1d 9h 34m 37s ago, saying: 'ya...'. Mar 01 20:04:14 heh Mar 01 20:04:32 ~seen rand Mar 01 20:04:33 rand <~boole@netblock-66-245-225-188.dslextreme.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #openjtag, 1s ago, saying: '~seen rand'. Mar 01 20:07:48 ~emulate abcs Mar 01 20:07:49 i have great idea, lets sell buggy software and charge to fix it!! Mar 01 20:08:00 ~emulate ash Mar 01 20:08:01 right now, you are the ruler of jack and s*it... and jack left town Mar 01 20:08:16 ~emulate abcs Mar 01 20:08:17 if we can't sell it for 500% markup we aren't interested! **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Mar 01 23:59:56 2005