**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Sep 20 02:59:56 2005
Sep 20 12:02:38 <ka6sox-lunch> oops..that should have been 
Sep 20 12:02:45 <ka6sox-lunch> ep1220: ping!
Sep 20 13:00:22 <ep1220> ka6sox-lunch: pong
Sep 20 13:00:32 <ka6sox-lunch> hi there.
Sep 20 13:00:39 <ep1220> hello
Sep 20 13:00:40 <ka6sox-lunch> been meaning to catch up with you.
Sep 20 13:00:57 <ka6sox-lunch> reviewed the schematic...looks good but I have a couple of questions.
Sep 20 13:01:09 <ep1220> please ask
Sep 20 13:01:36 <ka6sox-lunch> we could reduce the cost by just putting the 3 parts on the PB part directly on our board...any reason why not to?
Sep 20 13:02:08 <ep1220> PB = DLP2232M ?
Sep 20 13:02:15 <ka6sox-lunch> yes
Sep 20 13:02:48 <ep1220> The cost of the parts on this module is approx. 12$
Sep 20 13:03:09 <ep1220> but then we need a multilayer + professional manufacturing
Sep 20 13:03:22 <ka6sox-lunch> okay...and the cost of the other parts is about the same...$12
Sep 20 13:04:21 <ep1220> sounds right
Sep 20 13:04:52 <ka6sox-lunch> Board about $20/ea in small q's
Sep 20 13:05:16 <ka6sox-lunch> so we have $50 approx invested.
Sep 20 13:06:07 <ep1220> yes
Sep 20 13:06:49 <ka6sox-lunch> the board is going to cost us no more to build with the parts on it (the 2232 parts)
Sep 20 13:07:51 <ka6sox-lunch> (since we already have so many pins already)
Sep 20 13:08:18 <ep1220> when we put the FTDI2232 directly on the PCB we likely need a 4 layer board 
Sep 20 13:08:19 <ep1220> > PCB price is higher
Sep 20 13:08:31 <ka6sox-lunch> nope..still only 2layer
Sep 20 13:08:57 <ka6sox-lunch> material cost isn't that much
Sep 20 13:09:12 <ep1220> the 2232 module is 4 layers
Sep 20 13:09:17 <ka6sox-lunch> the real cost is in setup and any "odd" drill sizes.
Sep 20 13:09:42 <ka6sox-lunch> only because of how many pins they wanted brought out to different places.
Sep 20 13:10:06 <prpplague> did you guys see that datasheet about using the cypress ez-usb module as a high speed jtag?
Sep 20 13:10:26 <ka6sox-lunch> yes...but the IP is too expensive.
Sep 20 13:10:38 <prpplague> IP?
Sep 20 13:10:54 <prpplague> wasn't aware there  was any IP attached to it
Sep 20 13:10:56 <ka6sox-lunch> the software in the cypress SDK
Sep 20 13:11:00 <ka6sox-lunch> (to mod it)
Sep 20 13:11:07 <ep1220> prpplague: I saw a project, USB + FPGA;
Sep 20 13:11:24 <prpplague> ka6sox-lunch: i must have missed something
Sep 20 13:11:41 <prpplague> ka6sox-lunch: i have several fx2 based boards and i don't use the cypress sdk
Sep 20 13:12:02 <ka6sox-office> k
Sep 20 13:12:03 <ep1220> my understanding was this was a "project" and they were looking for an OEM
Sep 20 13:12:10 <ka6sox-office> ah
Sep 20 13:12:30 <ka6sox-office> in our case we want to explore the FT2232 part (which I like too!)
Sep 20 13:12:57 <ka6sox-office> there is a kernel module for it.
Sep 20 13:13:15 <prpplague> ka6sox-office: yea i was just curious as i had planned to test jtag with the fx2 chipset this comming weekend
Sep 20 13:13:35 <ka6sox-office> cool.
Sep 20 13:13:54 <prpplague> http://www.linux-usb.org/ezusb/
Sep 20 13:14:20 <vmaster_> the cypress parts are the ones with integrated 8051, right?
Sep 20 13:14:37 <prpplague> vmaster: yea
Sep 20 13:15:05 <prpplague> vmaster: lots of cheap devices on the market use it
Sep 20 13:15:09 <prpplague> vmaster: easy to hack
Sep 20 13:16:08 <vmaster> hmm... is that micro powerful enough to handle usb comms AND serialize the jtag stream?
Sep 20 13:16:33 <vmaster> or do they use additional logic to do the serializing?
Sep 20 13:16:50 <prpplague> vmaster: keyspan uses it for high speed rs-232 ports up to 450kbaud
Sep 20 13:17:59 <vmaster> yeah, but a usb 2.0 jtag device could go up to 20-40 mhz jtag tck
Sep 20 13:18:15 <prpplague> vmaster: several external ide to usb devices use it
Sep 20 13:18:54 <prpplague> vmaster: yea, i don't have any hard data other than i've reference for several ppl using it for jtag debugging
Sep 20 13:20:07 <prpplague> and for the cost, its got to be better than a wiggler
Sep 20 13:22:41 <vmaster> just checked, i got my ft2232 to about 900kHz TCK full-duplex - but I suspect that either the drivers, or the linux usb stack (or both...) suck
Sep 20 13:23:34 <vmaster> a wiggler achieves about 200kHz
Sep 20 13:45:43 <prpplague> vmaster: yea i was reading over some references, from the geda list
Sep 20 13:46:16 <prpplague> vmaster: someone there posted said they got about 450kHz with the ez-usb 1.1usb version
Sep 20 13:47:02 <vmaster> i guess the ft2232 has an advantage because of its dedicated mpsse - the 8051 probably did this in sw
Sep 20 13:47:57 <prpplague> yea thats what i gather
Sep 20 13:48:38 <prpplague> vmaster: but that is also the older ez-usb device
Sep 20 13:48:47 <prpplague> vmaster: the fx2 is 2.0 high speed
Sep 20 13:50:17 <prpplague> hmm seems there is already some software out there for ez-usb jtag device
Sep 20 13:51:21 <prpplague> vmaster: http://lapwww.epfl.ch/dev/arm/jelie/ looks like jelie already has some support for the ezusb
Sep 20 13:52:42 <vmaster> iirc, they're doing it through bit-banging
Sep 20 13:52:59 <prpplague> vmaster: yea gpio
Sep 20 13:54:12 <vmaster> a wiggler is probably a lot faster then
Sep 20 13:55:15 <vmaster> parport aint that bad for jtag - at least you have low latency :)
Sep 20 13:55:26 <prpplague> yea
Sep 20 13:56:08 <prpplague> vmaster: i was just mainly looking at the jtag aspect as an after thought, i was making the ez-usb based device for bit-banging nand flash devices on my desktop
Sep 20 13:56:12 <vmaster> for high speed, i'd add a cpld to the fx2 - the fx2 handles the buffers, while the cpld takes care of the serializing
Sep 20 13:56:35 <vmaster> ah, ok
Sep 20 13:57:24 <vmaster> hmm... everything i say in this channel gets logged, right?
Sep 20 13:57:42 <prpplague> yea purl does a log
Sep 20 14:02:59 <prpplague> purl: log
Sep 20 14:03:01 <purl> rumour has it, log is as piece of wood
Sep 20 14:03:06 <prpplague> purl: smart ass
Sep 20 14:03:10 <vmaster> i'm trying to create a new config for amontec's chameleon that i can add as a interface to my software - theoretically i could add support for the standard raven config, but i figure macraigor wouldn't like that
Sep 20 14:03:16 <vmaster> purl: help?
Sep 20 14:03:18 <purl> it has been said that help is /msg purl help
Sep 20 14:03:46 <prpplague> http://purl.rikers.org/
Sep 20 14:08:39 <vmaster> ah, thx
Sep 21 00:17:27 <ka6sox> morning ep1220 
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Sep 21 02:59:56 2005