**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 05 02:59:59 2006 Jan 05 03:10:14 ohhh, that simtek board looks nice Jan 05 06:12:34 anyone know a good channel to discuss libusb apps? Jan 05 06:12:44 dunno, sorry Jan 05 06:13:26 thanks Jan 05 06:20:03 oh, if you find one, let me know Jan 05 06:46:13 vmaster: If you can find peteru on #openslug or #nslu2-linux, he knows quite a bit about libusb stuff Jan 05 07:18:09 <[g2]> lennert morning :) Jan 05 07:18:38 <[g2]> lennert are you familiar with those boards from Simtec ? Jan 05 07:19:32 <[g2]> The OKI 675001 Module ? Jan 05 07:19:48 not familiar with them, no Jan 05 07:20:12 <[g2]> it's a 60Mhz arm with a CPLD on board Jan 05 07:20:24 no idea Jan 05 07:21:07 <[g2]> well I think we could setup the CPLD to do Bit shifting and drive it from the ARM 32bits at a time Jan 05 07:21:10 <[g2]> there's DMA too Jan 05 07:21:25 <[g2]> and ethernet Jan 05 07:21:35 what does it cost? Jan 05 07:21:48 <[g2]> $175 Q1 < $50 in quantity Jan 05 07:22:10 <[g2]> they'll even do custom orders for as little as Q25 Jan 05 07:22:19 kind of the same price as the platform usb cable but without the software ;) Jan 05 07:23:49 <[g2]> I'd guess around the same price. Jan 05 07:25:03 <[g2]> there's 42 IO pins to the CPLD Jan 05 07:25:16 <[g2]> from the processor Jan 05 07:26:05 that's quite a bunch Jan 05 07:26:13 but only 72 macrocells Jan 05 07:26:30 that could be a bit tight Jan 05 07:27:17 <[g2]> vmaster good point, I'll bet that not the largest CPLD in the family, but I dunno Jan 05 07:28:23 larger ones cost more though.. Jan 05 07:29:07 <[g2]> yeah like fpga where an extra $40 gets you 600K on the S3 Jan 05 07:29:57 mhh, guess the package options are more of a restriction than the few extra $ for a larger cpld Jan 05 07:30:17 <[g2]> it's a XL9572XL Jan 05 07:30:34 <[g2]> I'm checking where that is in family Jan 05 07:30:37 an xc3s200 goes for $24 and an xc3s1000 goes for $47 at avnet Jan 05 07:31:11 the xc3s1000-ft256 goes for $51, so it's not all that much more expensive Jan 05 07:31:25 <[g2]> ok $23 800K gates, nod Jan 05 07:33:00 9572 is the second smallest Jan 05 07:33:52 <[g2]> same footprint ? Jan 05 07:34:01 depends on the package they use Jan 05 07:34:22 http://www.xilinx.com/products/95xlsh.pdf Jan 05 07:34:37 there's a matrix of packages and device sizes Jan 05 07:35:56 <[g2]> thx my google-fu was lacking on the XL9572XL search Jan 05 07:36:58 mhh, but i guess an atmel sam7 would still be a better choice if we're going for a uC w/ ethernet solution Jan 05 07:37:27 the built-in serial controller makes life a lot easier Jan 05 07:38:37 <[g2]> vmaster I just looking at this because it seemed cheap, in the right area, and built, and customizable in Q25 Jan 05 07:39:41 <[g2]> I heard an interesting quote abou Goal setting.. It's not the goal, its the person you become trying to reach the goal Jan 05 07:40:55 <[g2]> it is wonderful to have some varied ideas and have ppl interesting in trying to achieve this Jan 05 07:48:12 <[g2]> hey it looks like simtec sells mini-pci based arm boards too Jan 05 07:50:04 [g2]: yea simtec makes some good stuff Jan 05 07:50:31 [g2]: their staff can be quirky to work with though if you need tech support Jan 05 07:50:38 [g2]: atleast imho Jan 05 08:23:53 <[g2]> do you guys know how to have the partition table reloaded ? Jan 05 08:58:09 [g2]: with an ioctl Jan 05 08:58:32 [g2]: or start fdisk and 'w' your partition table (be sure that it doesn't replace a mac disklabel with a dos disklabel for example!) Jan 05 09:01:06 <[g2]> lennert thx, I think mount -o remount / does it too :0 Jan 05 09:01:08 <[g2]> :) Jan 05 09:01:31 oh, does it? odd.. Jan 05 09:01:57 ooook Jan 05 09:02:05 /sbin/blockdev --rereadpt /dev/hda Jan 05 09:02:12 that ought to work Jan 05 09:02:23 anyone got experience doing usb from the slave end of things? Jan 05 09:03:22 <[g2]> lennert _that_ looks really handy thx Jan 05 09:33:45 prpplaque, what are you looking for? Jan 05 09:36:08 sgmiller: just doing alot of usb dev at the momment, between a sa-1110 device and a host pc Jan 05 09:36:25 sgmiller: mainly using libusb and a kernel driver on the slave Jan 05 09:37:50 that do you want to "know about the slave end of things" I've made a couple of devices. Jan 05 09:38:00 that -> what Jan 05 09:53:08 <[g2]> sgmiller hey! Jan 05 09:53:16 hey! Jan 05 09:53:22 <[g2]> meet the gang Jan 05 09:53:34 hello gang, nice to meet you. Jan 05 09:53:37 <[g2]> heh Jan 05 09:54:31 <[g2]> lennert and dwery-zzzz are ARM kernel hackers and lennert's into _everything_.. He's got a V2pro board he's playing with Jan 05 09:54:46 <[g2]> prpplague and ka6sox-office build some boards and hw Jan 05 09:54:56 sgmiller: running linux on the slave? Jan 05 09:55:01 very good... my kind of folks. Jan 05 09:55:10 <[g2]> vmaster and ep1220 do a bit of JTAG Jan 05 09:55:21 good. Jan 05 09:55:23 <[g2]> dyoung-away is an all around guy Jan 05 09:55:51 hello sgmiller Jan 05 09:55:53 anyone done anything interesting with the PPC on the V2pro? Jan 05 09:55:55 hello. Jan 05 09:56:01 not i Jan 05 09:56:07 me, not yet.. Jan 05 09:56:18 still have some coreconnect docs to wade through :) have you? Jan 05 09:56:20 <[g2]> I've got a Black Dog Jan 05 09:56:36 <[g2]> that's got a hardcore running Debian Jan 05 09:56:39 nope... Jan 05 09:57:20 i've been meaning for a few days to hack on the v2p board.. but i'm a bit distracted by arm kernel stuff atm Jan 05 09:57:54 black dog??? is that the thing with the biometric reader? Jan 05 09:58:57 <[g2]> yeah Jan 05 09:59:25 <[g2]> it's quite slick for the money Jan 05 11:45:47 beewoolie-afk: hey hey Jan 05 11:46:17 yo Jan 05 11:46:19 prpplague: finally got the MMC socket and break-away header. Jan 05 11:48:28 ~seen ka6sox-office Jan 05 11:48:28 ka6sox-office is currently on #openjtag (1d 22h 16m 24s). Has said a total of 30 messages. Is idling for 18h 17m 46s Jan 05 11:48:42 ka6sox-office is currently on #openjtag (1d 22h 16m 2s). Has said a total of 30 messages. Is idling for 18h 17m 46s Jan 05 11:48:58 prpplague: have any experience with the insight ijc-2 JTAG widget? Jan 05 11:49:14 I'm sorta here. Jan 05 11:49:30 ka6sox-office: coo Jan 05 11:49:37 I used the Wince stuff with that unit about 8 months ago. Jan 05 11:49:45 and the Xilinx stuff too. Jan 05 11:49:50 ka6sox-office: What 'cable' is it? Jan 05 11:49:58 Xilinx III Jan 05 11:50:11 Xilinx supports it, I know, but I haven't found it in wince by grepping. Jan 05 11:50:20 Excellent... Jan 05 11:50:27 its a type III cable. Jan 05 11:50:37 It's kinda clever. It supports three output voltages. Jan 05 11:51:56 beewoolie-afk: cool Jan 05 11:52:10 beewoolie-afk: no, no experience with that ijc-2 jtag widget Jan 05 11:52:13 beewoolie-afk: url? Jan 05 11:52:23 ya . Jan 05 11:52:25 prpplague: Can't find one. Jan 05 11:52:36 ka6sox-office: It's a Xilinx DLC5 JTAG Parallel Cable III? Jan 05 11:53:12 beewoolie-afk, Yes I think thats right. Jan 05 12:07:59 well Jan 05 12:08:06 jtag only has to pull down to ground, right? Jan 05 12:08:11 so in theory, it would support any 'voltage' Jan 05 12:08:17 unless i'm mistaken Jan 05 12:08:50 lennert: I think the issue is that driving 5V into a 1.3V device could be destructive. Jan 05 12:09:16 And I think I am wrong about the three voltage levels. At least, the schematic doesn't show it that way. Jan 05 12:09:57 I was simply measuring the output voltages as I exercised the parallel port. Jan 05 12:10:45 add zeners ;) Jan 05 12:11:22 You're...a...zeners Jan 05 12:15:52 well really, a jtag dongle doesn't need to drive any voltage into anything Jan 05 12:16:00 TCK, TDI, TMS are high by default Jan 05 12:16:07 you want them zero, you pull 'em down Jan 05 12:16:10 you want them one, you float 'em Jan 05 12:20:17 According to the ARM TRM.even though the IEEE spec 'effectively requires TDI and TMS to have internal pullup resistors', they don't do it. Jan 05 12:20:47 ...in order to minimize current draw. Jan 05 12:26:28 Tiersten: howdy Jan 05 12:26:35 so Jan 05 12:26:47 you're supposed to drive them both ways? Jan 05 12:26:57 That's what the TRM says. Jan 05 12:27:08 I'm reading the 922 docs. Jan 05 12:27:08 so if you let them float.. they float Jan 05 12:27:12 hmm Jan 05 12:27:22 well, won't the board have external pullups then? Jan 05 12:27:27 otherwise it's kind of useless Jan 05 12:27:42 I would expect that TCK is not floated, but then it all depends on the board design. Jan 05 12:27:48 i mean, if you leave TCK unconnected it might just pick up spurious cycles Jan 05 12:27:50 yeah Jan 05 12:27:50 Hey beewoolie Jan 05 12:27:52 * beewoolie-afk reads schematics Jan 05 12:29:07 lennert: The LPD schematic for the lh7a404 has pullups. Jan 05 12:29:33 i think it's reasonable to have external pullups instead of internal ones Jan 05 12:30:03 but if they have real stiff ones that'll put a nasty limit on the maximum speed Jan 05 12:30:22 That's dirty. Jan 05 12:30:25 you can just put an extra pullup in your jtag dongle and activate it only when jtag is in use ;) Jan 05 12:30:39 so it'll draw the extra current only when you're using jtag Jan 05 12:31:11 The LPD board has 10K pullups on those lines. Jan 05 12:31:27 i have no idea what typical values for bus capacitance are Jan 05 12:31:34 the arm multi-ice drives both low and high Jan 05 12:32:32 well, you could actually drive it high instead of floating it if you want it to go faster.. i don't think that'd cause any problems Jan 05 12:32:43 oh.. that's probably what ka6sox meant the other day Jan 05 12:33:08 As long as you have the right output voltage. QED Jan 05 12:33:45 indeed Jan 05 12:33:49 * lennert bows to beewoolie-afk Jan 05 12:34:18 you deserve an internet Jan 05 12:34:28 Heck, I've already got two. Jan 05 12:34:35 hehe Jan 05 12:41:39 uhm, doesn't the parallel cable iii use the target supplied vcc? Jan 05 12:41:58 In english please. Jan 05 12:41:59 yeah Jan 05 12:42:13 there is a vcc pin on the jtag connector Jan 05 12:42:39 On the xilinx cable, the VCC from the target is used to detect if the target is present. Jan 05 16:07:03 anyone here studied the ppc405 in the virtex2 pro? Jan 05 16:07:17 only briefly in a class. Jan 05 16:07:27 oh Jan 05 16:07:29 you had your course? Jan 05 16:07:32 how was that? Jan 05 16:08:42 it was okay..they mostly spent time on uBlaze. Jan 05 16:08:56 okay Jan 05 16:09:02 was it useful to you? Jan 05 16:09:06 yes it was. Jan 05 16:09:09 and still is! Jan 05 16:09:12 okay Jan 05 16:09:16 did you use your xupv2p board yet? Jan 05 16:09:18 they explained the EDK very well. Jan 05 16:09:39 it just arrived *after* the course. Jan 05 16:09:48 oh, great Jan 05 16:09:53 didn't play with it yet? Jan 05 16:09:55 but we had one in class to play with. Jan 05 16:10:08 okay Jan 05 16:10:09 not yet...I'm going to play with it starting next week or so. Jan 05 16:10:15 I've been moving. Jan 05 16:10:35 yeah i know Jan 05 16:11:08 now that I"m out of that period I intend to continue working on the S3/V2 stuff. Jan 05 16:11:39 okay Jan 05 16:45:17 ka6sox-office: so i can send you my xupv2p projects and you can run them! Jan 05 16:52:29 yes! Jan 05 16:59:00 great! Jan 05 17:59:43 whee.. for $199 you can have your own dual channel 10-bit 120MS/s ADC eval kit http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/3169 Jan 05 18:00:04 (it comes with the 80MS/s chip but you can order the 120MS/s one along with it as a free sample) Jan 05 18:10:09 <[g2]> so I can over-sample my audio a bit eh ? Jan 05 18:10:28 ya Jan 05 18:10:45 or hook up your adsl connection to it and see what's going on on those wires :) Jan 05 18:10:51 <[g2]> heh Jan 05 18:11:19 <[g2]> are you going to turn it into a 1 channel scope ? Jan 05 18:11:24 possible too Jan 05 18:11:33 fpga board + adc + svga output ;) Jan 05 18:12:21 <[g2]> it's a shame it doesn't do 140Ms Jan 05 18:12:27 why? :) Jan 05 18:12:44 <[g2]> you could capture 66Mhz PCI Jan 05 18:12:58 well, you could do that already? Jan 05 18:13:15 you don't need an ADC for that though.. Jan 05 18:13:17 <[g2]> doesn't Niquest say you need 2x Jan 05 18:13:20 no Jan 05 18:13:22 pci runs at 66mhz Jan 05 18:13:37 <[g2]> which means you need to sample at 133 Jan 05 18:13:44 iff you want to sample the pci clock Jan 05 18:13:54 for all the other lines, you only need to sample at 66mhz Jan 05 18:14:08 (you can have the pci clock trigger the sampling) Jan 05 18:14:41 the highest frequency you can put on a 66mhz pci data line is 33mhz (by alternating 0 1 0 1) Jan 05 18:15:35 <[g2]> well 140 woud still be nice to capture 133 memory right ? :) Jan 05 18:15:40 but since my xeon box died, i only have 33mhz pci buses at home anyway Jan 05 18:15:47 well, yeah ;) Jan 05 18:15:58 it would be nice to capture everything! Jan 05 18:16:04 <[g2]> deep, wide fast analyzers :) Jan 05 18:16:16 although why you'd capture those protocols with an adc is still somewhat beyond me Jan 05 18:16:22 unless you want to test bus behavior Jan 05 18:16:27 and voltage waveforms and such Jan 05 18:16:42 <[g2]> yeah you don't need the adc for that Jan 05 18:16:52 <[g2]> except for looking for glitches and noise Jan 05 18:17:01 i admit, after reading so much electronic theory, i got rather interested in trying some of those rc/rlc circuits out myself.. except that i have no scope Jan 05 18:17:13 [g2]: yeah, for that it's useful Jan 05 18:17:18 <[g2]> I was reading that on the wiki too Jan 05 18:17:39 <[g2]> that's the kind of stuff I want the kids to understand Jan 05 18:17:50 what wiki? Jan 05 18:17:58 <[g2]> wikipedia Jan 05 18:18:14 ah, right Jan 05 18:19:32 <[g2]> my son(8) walks up to the chat screen and all the windos and know who's sending me messages etc... and what part of the world you guys hail from Jan 05 18:19:42 nice :) Jan 05 18:19:54 i want an 8yr old son too Jan 05 18:19:55 <[g2]> I can do hex Jan 05 18:20:04 i want them to skip the 2yr-4yr phase Jan 05 18:20:05 <[g2]> doh.... he Jan 05 18:20:11 and the 14yr-18yr phase Jan 05 18:20:28 they're cute when they're 2mo old and 4yr-14yr old :) Jan 05 18:20:33 hello there! Jan 05 18:20:38 <[g2]> I'll bet you were a little hellion growing up :) Jan 05 18:20:47 i was a real pain to raise Jan 05 18:21:07 <[g2]> boundless energy I'll bet Jan 05 18:21:13 yeah Jan 05 18:21:24 and stuck in a place where i couldn't do anything with that energy (i.e. school) Jan 05 18:21:44 i was so glad i could finally quit school Jan 05 18:21:46 <[g2]> yeah that's a real shame, but it works out in the end :) Jan 05 18:21:53 yeah, it did Jan 05 18:22:06 wish it had worked out differently though Jan 05 18:22:14 i mean, i wish i would have found my place at the uni, but i didn't Jan 05 18:22:17 <[g2]> really ? How so ? Jan 05 18:22:32 <[g2]> during school ? Jan 05 18:22:47 stuff that keeps researchers and PhDs busy just doesn't interest me much Jan 05 18:22:59 they mostly do stuff to get more grants Jan 05 18:23:01 at least over here Jan 05 18:23:26 <[g2]> Well Bill G and Mike D. were dropouts right ? Jan 05 18:23:30 <[g2]> and Fred S. Jan 05 18:23:47 yeah, but that's not a good reason for dropping out Jan 05 18:24:01 <[g2]> Maybe Fred S. graduated, but he got a C or D on his business idea that he implemented Jan 05 18:24:06 many people drop out from school and get stoned all day because they say einstein did that too Jan 05 18:24:26 true Jan 05 18:24:30 i'm kind of ambivalent Jan 05 18:24:38 i know that not being in uni anymore is much better for me Jan 05 18:24:55 while at the same time i can't really explain it to people as such Jan 05 18:25:06 i.e. "i'm much better off without uni" sounds way too arrogant Jan 05 18:25:13 even though i do feel a lot happier Jan 05 18:25:30 <[g2]> we I think you are just trying to find your own path Jan 05 18:25:36 <[g2]> well Jan 05 18:25:42 i guess so.. Jan 05 18:25:57 <[g2]> dyoung-away awake ? Jan 05 18:25:59 studying day and night nowadays :) Jan 05 18:26:38 <[g2]> dyoung-away likes a quote from a ski poster I told him about Jan 05 18:27:18 <[g2]> Some guy is dropped in (heli style) at the top of a pristine mountain Jan 05 18:27:39 <[g2]> he's skiing down all alone and at the bottom it says Jan 05 18:27:48 <[g2]> "Beaten paths are for beaten men" Jan 05 18:27:59 yeah, that one's inspiring Jan 05 18:28:22 <[g2]> what's the other site ? failure.com ? Jan 05 18:28:31 could be Jan 05 18:28:36 the Despair posters Jan 05 18:28:40 i love those Jan 05 18:28:42 <[g2]> that's it! Jan 05 18:28:50 <[g2]> hey it's a new year Jan 05 18:29:01 time to despair! Jan 05 18:30:55 <[g2]> "The Art of Demotivation" looks good too Jan 05 18:31:12 is that like the art of war? :) Jan 05 18:37:35 where are the dispari posters? Jan 05 18:40:13 <[g2]> despair.com Jan 05 18:40:58 <[g2]> hey the new raptors sound need (by way expensive) Jan 05 18:41:26 <[g2]> They've got a clear lexan top so you can watch the platters and heads move at 10K RPMs Jan 05 18:41:41 <[g2]> wall the platters anyway Jan 05 18:41:54 <[g2]> the heads don't move at 10K :0 Jan 05 18:42:38 you won't see the platters move though Jan 05 18:42:52 not if they're polished enough, which they should be :) Jan 05 18:43:20 <[g2]> Oh I'm sure there's some marks on the spindel Jan 05 18:43:48 right, some nuts and bolts Jan 05 18:43:54 <[g2]> I'm sure the first protos were: "Dude when are you going to turn it on" ? Jan 05 18:44:06 <[g2]> "Dude it _is_ on" ! Jan 05 18:44:12 <[g2]> No... Jan 05 18:44:13 hehe Jan 05 18:44:18 <[g2]> WAY Jan 05 18:44:34 dude Jan 05 18:44:42 sounds like the big lebowski :) Jan 05 18:45:14 <[g2]> I'll have to rent it is sounds good Jan 05 18:45:15 10krpm drives are fun.. try removing one from a hotswap rack and turning it :P Jan 05 18:45:22 pieces flying everywhere Jan 05 18:45:32 [g2]: it's definitely very good Jan 05 18:45:51 <[g2]> I raced motocyles for a 1 or 2 Jan 05 18:46:56 i.e. before your wife told you to stop :) Jan 05 18:46:58 <[g2]> trying to lean over a bike at 90-100MPH takes some force o Jan 05 18:47:15 <[g2]> long before the wife Jan 05 18:47:17 i'll believe that Jan 05 18:48:42 was nice chatting.. Jan 05 18:48:52 have to go find my bed now.. close to 4am :) Jan 05 18:49:01 <[g2]> cheers Jan 05 18:49:02 and we're supposed to get up early for shopping Jan 05 18:49:07 <[g2]> sleep well Jan 05 18:49:16 <[g2]> and soundly Jan 05 18:49:21 thanks, and you too, whenever you will go Jan 05 18:49:35 ciao! Jan 05 18:49:41 <[g2]> ciao! Jan 05 20:11:47 lennert: You may be right about the board providing power to the JTAG driver stage. Jan 06 01:42:37 bye Purl...we hardly knew ye. Jan 06 01:43:09 ~lart qbot Jan 06 01:43:09 * qbot judo chops ka6sox-office Jan 06 01:43:19 * purl hits qbot with an anvil and laughs with a contralto voice ... Haha Ha HA Ha **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jan 06 02:59:57 2006