**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 21 02:59:56 2008
Aug 21 05:12:43 <dbmoodb> networking-manager is fairly good actually.... just wouldn't depend on it 
Aug 21 06:44:56 <w_erase> what's dialer3 and dialog3 in SHR ? 
Aug 21 06:46:22 <methril> morning
Aug 21 06:46:54 <w_erase> hi
Aug 21 07:11:28 * rwhitby adds zsh, irssi and fbreader to task-openmoko-feed
Aug 21 07:11:44 <dbmoodb> is shr out ?
Aug 21 07:14:47 <rwhitby> mickey|zzZZzz: bluetooth control in powercontrol-neo.py doesn't work for GTA01
Aug 21 07:15:03 <rwhitby> (you need to leave resetnode alone for GTA01 apparently)
Aug 21 07:15:33 * rwhitby looks for a way to conditionalise it
Aug 21 07:38:16 <rwhitby> mickey|zzZZzz: nm - it does work as s
Aug 21 07:38:18 <rwhitby> is
Aug 21 07:48:16 <CIA-19> freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r93e75b66097a 10/framework/subsystems/oeventsd/parser.py: [oeventsd] Some typo in the parser functions (thanks to Julien Cassignol)
Aug 21 07:48:17 <CIA-19> freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r3d975876cf5b 10/ (17 files in 10 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of ssh://git@git.freesmartphone.org/framework
Aug 21 08:04:23 <aleix> hi
Aug 21 08:12:29 <aleix> rwhitby: morning. i'm getting errors while building the fso image, "do_install" for eglibc, is there anywhere to have a look for more details?
Aug 21 08:13:51 <rwhitby> aleix: are you building testing or unstable?  what host OS?
Aug 21 08:14:11 <rwhitby> and did you use the FsoMakefile or something else?
Aug 21 08:15:29 <aleix> rwhitby: unstable, debian testing, nothing else. i have checked for the list of needed packages
Aug 21 08:16:00 <aleix> rwhitby: do i need debian unstable?
Aug 21 08:18:12 <rwhitby> aleix: I only guarantee builds with the server config listed in http://shr.bearstech.com/server-config/
Aug 21 08:18:40 <aleix> rwhitby: ok
Aug 21 08:19:09 <rwhitby> trying to debug every different host OS takes up too much of my time, so this time around I have defined it up front :-)
Aug 21 08:19:33 <rwhitby> It *shouldn't* matter, but often does.
Aug 21 08:19:37 <aleix> rwhitby: btw, I send an email to the shr mailing list about the layout, Ainulindale told me I could start with it
Aug 21 08:19:48 <aleix> rwhitby: don't worry, i'll have a look
Aug 21 08:20:23 <rwhitby> aleix: that layout looks good to me
Aug 21 08:20:37 <aleix> rwhitby: what about the sources?
Aug 21 08:21:12 <rwhitby> it doesn't really matter, as long as the .bb files know where to find them
Aug 21 08:21:25 <aleix> i modified your fso makefile to download shr into and shr directory
Aug 21 08:21:27 <aleix> ok
Aug 21 08:22:07 <rwhitby> hmm - actually, we will want to be able to check out the overlay area *without* also checking out all the sources
Aug 21 08:22:20 <rwhitby> so you need another level above classes,conf,packages
Aug 21 08:22:38 <rwhitby> shr/overlay/{classes,conf,packages} perhaps
Aug 21 08:22:56 <rwhitby> then you could move all the other packages up one level
Aug 21 08:23:11 <aleix> shr/overlay and shr/sources
Aug 21 08:23:14 <aleix> for example
Aug 21 08:23:33 <rwhitby> or shr/openembedded, shr/libframeworkd-glib, shr/ophonekitd, ...
Aug 21 08:24:18 <rwhitby> since the main things are the sources, and they will probably be packaged into debian as well, then you want to keep the openembedded overlay separate and not too important
Aug 21 08:24:36 <aleix> so, we would need a separate repositories
Aug 21 08:25:38 <aleix> in fact, i think it would be good to create specific repos for each source package
Aug 21 08:25:42 <aleix> to maintain version, etc
Aug 21 08:26:17 <write_erase> Hi. Are there known problems with glibc do_package (NOTE: generating locale om_KE (UTF-8) NOTE: Task failed: localedef returned an error   Thx .
Aug 21 08:27:24 <rwhitby> aleix: yes, repos per package would be fine
Aug 21 08:27:34 <rwhitby> but not really necessary
Aug 21 08:28:01 <rwhitby> you don't need separate repositories, just separate directory hierarchies in the repository
Aug 21 08:30:57 <Ainulindale> mickey|zzZZzz: just answered to your mail about scenarii
Aug 21 08:34:55 <write_erase> Ainulindale, I plan to join the dev team as soon as I learn SHR architecture & build process. Is there already some build images ? 
Aug 21 08:36:55 <aleix> rwhitby: yes, by now it's ok. but using the same repo does not allo to maintain separate versions or even separate commits and history
Aug 21 08:38:01 <rwhitby> aleix: that's a good thing - I don't want to need to subscribe to a RSS feed for every single package ...
Aug 21 08:39:43 <aleix> rwhitby: that's another good thing... :-)
Aug 21 08:40:03 <rwhitby> versioning of packages is not done by the svn revision.  svn commits are just numbers - do not attribute meaning to them
Aug 21 08:40:37 <aleix> rwhitby: is there any plan to use git or any other dvcs?
Aug 21 08:40:51 <rwhitby> aleix: dunno - I don't run the project
Aug 21 08:41:20 <rwhitby> you'd need to ask Ainulindale and wurp2|working I expect
Aug 21 08:41:32 <aleix> ah, ok
Aug 21 08:42:03 <aleix> i think git can maintain subrepos, anyway...by now, svn
Aug 21 08:51:43 <Ainulindale> write_erase: there's no image yet because we still wait for people to implement the gtk lib for the phone UI
Aug 21 08:52:25 <Ainulindale> aleix: We won't switch to svn right now I think, as long as we want to be able to sync with projects
Aug 21 08:52:30 <Ainulindale> But I think in the end we should
Aug 21 08:52:45 <Ainulindale> And I think we should switch to git on the buildhost to unify things
Aug 21 08:54:14 <write_erase> I know gtk lib, but not " gtk lib for the phone UI" ... could you explain me briefly ? 
Aug 21 08:56:45 <Ainulindale> write_erase: Well, http://www.calaquendi.org/om/ophonekitd.png
Aug 21 08:57:07 <Ainulindale> write_erase: libframeworkd-glib (lfg) uses dbus-glib to talk to frameworkd
Aug 21 08:57:30 <Ainulindale> libframeworkd-phonegui (lfp) is a set of primitives to display UI adapted to a phone
Aug 21 08:57:39 <Ainulindale> ophonekitd is linked against lfg and lfp
Aug 21 08:57:55 <Ainulindale> lfp is an abstract package with headers defining prototypes
Aug 21 08:58:02 <Ainulindale> the current implementation is libframeworkd-phonegui-gtk
Aug 21 08:58:12 <Ainulindale> And that's the thing we have to complete in order to release
Aug 21 08:58:15 <Ainulindale> (that and a bit in ophonekitd)
Aug 21 09:01:40 <write_erase> Ainulindale, I'm new to the project. Is there some page explaining the whole architecture ( what is ophonekitd, libframeworkd.... etc ) ? 
Aug 21 09:02:16 <Ainulindale> There's this log
Aug 21 09:02:20 <Ainulindale> And that's pretty much all there is :-)
Aug 21 09:02:32 <Ainulindale> write_erase: I wrote a page on lfg
Aug 21 09:03:52 <Ainulindale> What could I tell you in order to help you ?
Aug 21 09:04:57 <write_erase> Ainulindale, not much ... I have to learn from scratch ... that's the ugly part :-) What's lfg ? 
Aug 21 09:05:08 <Ainulindale> write_erase: 
Aug 21 09:05:08 <Ainulindale> write_erase: 10:57:07 < Ainulindale> write_erase: libframeworkd-glib (lfg) uses dbus-glib to talk to frameworkd
Aug 21 09:05:19 <write_erase> sorry . 
Aug 21 09:05:22 <Ainulindale> :-)
Aug 21 09:06:36 <write_erase> I'll first try to compile what's in  wiki/SHR_Development & read the svn code 
Aug 21 09:07:28 <Ainulindale> Ok then :-)
Aug 21 09:09:07 <aleix> Ainulindale: does projects.openmoko.org provide git support?
Aug 21 09:10:54 <Ainulindale> I don't think so
Aug 21 09:13:11 <aleix> so, this means the code should be moved somehwere else?
Aug 21 09:14:01 <Ainulindale> Yep it should be
Aug 21 09:14:03 <Ainulindale> Hey charlie137 o/
Aug 21 09:17:00 <charlie137> Ainulindale: hi
Aug 21 09:21:55 <Ainulindale> charlie137: I gave you an anwer on smartphone
Aug 21 09:23:49 <charlie137> yes I saw it
Aug 21 10:01:00 <CIA-19> freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r2515e9ddf7f1 10/conf/example/frameworkd.conf: [Conf file] corrected a typo
Aug 21 10:01:02 <rwhitby> Ainulindale: staying with svn on projects means you don't have to administer a server.  that's a good tihing.
Aug 21 10:01:05 <rwhitby> thing.
Aug 21 10:04:25 <aleix> rwhitby: http://pastebin.com/d6934b583  the error on eglibc
Aug 21 10:06:04 <aleix> have you seen that before?
Aug 21 10:07:21 <rwhitby> never seen anything like that.  perhaps missing name resolver libraries on the host or something?
Aug 21 10:08:12 <rwhitby> aleix: what requires eglibc?  I don't build that for the image nor for task-openmoko-feed ...
Aug 21 10:10:00 <rwhitby> aleix: you shouldn't be building eglibc for fso image.
Aug 21 10:10:32 <rwhitby> Are you using the Fso Makefile from shr.bearstech.com, or some home-grown setup?
Aug 21 10:12:39 <aleix> rwhitby: i update the fso makefile, only substituing fso for shr... i'll have to check that again, may be i broke something... i'll try fso from scratch
Aug 21 10:13:43 <aleix> rwhitby: i used   "make image"
Aug 21 10:15:23 <rwhitby> aleix: pastebin your Makefile
Aug 21 10:18:12 <aleix> rwhitby: http://pastebin.com/d79e17b63
Aug 21 10:19:01 <aleix> rwhitby: bte, there were two distclean targets, i removed one
Aug 21 10:19:30 <rwhitby> ok, dunno why you're getting eglibc from that ...
Aug 21 10:19:51 <aleix> rwhitby: and  distsclean-fso-testing should be distclean-fso-testing
Aug 21 10:20:21 <aleix> rwhitby: me neither. but if you say it shouldn't be used, that's a good starting point :-)
Aug 21 10:21:39 <rwhitby> aleix: my builds use glibc-2.6.1
Aug 21 10:22:08 <aleix> rwhitby: instead of glibc?
Aug 21 10:22:19 <aleix> s/glibc/eglibc/
Aug 21 10:25:57 <rwhitby> I don't build eglibc
Aug 21 10:26:09 <rwhitby> run bitbake -g and see what is depending on eglibc
Aug 21 10:26:48 <rwhitby> are you sure there is nothing conflicting in your shr/conf directory?
Aug 21 10:33:54 <aleix> rwhitby: i've cleaned everything..starting from scratch. i'll run bitbake -g as you suggested
Aug 21 10:50:03 <aleix> rwhitby: http://pastebin.com/m6271cadb (bitbake errors for glibc and eglibc)
Aug 21 10:58:51 <chris_debian> Hi, all.  Just a quickie.  Who is the best person to contact re IRC channel typo on Debian Wiki page?
Aug 21 10:59:35 <chris_debian> The nis-spelled channel name looks like this:
Aug 21 10:59:38 <chris_debian> IRC channel: #opemoko-cdevel on freenode
Aug 21 10:59:52 <chris_debian> URL= http://wiki.debian.org/DebianOnFreeRunner
Aug 21 11:01:37 <Ainulindale> rwhitby: we're currently not using projects
Aug 21 11:01:43 <aleix> rwhitby: bitbake -g eglibc : http://pastebin.com/d4fac8998
Aug 21 11:21:10 <ike> Hello. Have anyone tried emdebian on Neo Freerunner already?
Aug 21 13:17:37 <aleix> Ainulindale: totally agree about the svn migration email
Aug 21 13:18:04 <aleix> Ainulindale: i do not even need commit access. i can create my own mirror
Aug 21 13:18:47 <Ainulindale> Yes but you'll have commit access if you want to work on SHR, it's logical
Aug 21 13:19:17 <aleix> Ainulindale: let me do something interesting fisrt :-)
Aug 21 13:19:29 <aleix> s/fisrt/first/
Aug 21 14:20:57 <CIA-19> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07specs * rca9ed2fbca52 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): 
Aug 21 14:20:57 <CIA-19> freesmartphone.org: odevice: input: fix type of 'seconds' parameter in org.freesmartphone.Device.Input.Event. Thanks Sebastian for
Aug 21 14:20:57 <CIA-19> freesmartphone.org: spotting.
Aug 21 14:26:22 <mickeyl> Ainulindale: access granted and repository created.
Aug 21 14:26:26 <mickeyl> Ainulindale: you should be able to upload now
Aug 21 14:28:08 <Ainulindale> Thanks I'll do that tonight or later :-)
Aug 21 14:34:36 <write_erase> Hi... can you run dfu-util with FreeBSD  ? 
Aug 21 14:38:21 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: do you know if there's a way to import a svn in git with full history ?
Aug 21 14:39:18 <Ainulindale> Ah visibly git-svnimport
Aug 21 14:46:36 <lindi-> ike: how much do you know about it?
Aug 21 14:48:24 <Ainulindale> Well it won't intall it
Aug 21 14:56:19 <Ainulindale> wurp2|working ?
Aug 21 14:56:24 <wurp2|working> Ainulindale: ?
Aug 21 14:56:25 <Ainulindale> If you can help me as I know you're there... :-)
Aug 21 14:56:34 <wurp2|working> Help you import svn to git?
Aug 21 14:56:37 <Ainulindale> Yep
Aug 21 14:56:38 <wurp2|working> I haven't done that :-(
Aug 21 14:56:45 <Ainulindale> Ok nevermind :-):
Aug 21 14:56:57 <Ainulindale> I don't have the git-svnimport tool it seems
Aug 21 14:57:04 <wurp2|working> I have imported svn to darcs, which is the only "next generation" rcs I have real experience with
Aug 21 14:57:16 <wurp2|working> On RH?
Aug 21 14:57:34 <wurp2|working> RedHat?
Aug 21 14:57:49 <Ainulindale> Haha, Redhat.
Aug 21 14:57:53 <Ainulindale> I'm using gentoo.
Aug 21 14:57:56 <wurp2|working> Oh, that
Aug 21 14:58:22 <wurp2|working> Looks like git-svnimport is replaced by git-svn
Aug 21 14:58:32 <wurp2|working> https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=204581
Aug 21 14:58:51 <Ainulindale> That's what I thought but I can't find any information on that
Aug 21 14:58:57 <wurp2|working> I just remembered that you weren't running Debian :-)
Aug 21 14:59:08 <alphaone> Ainulindale: I've got git-svn here
Aug 21 14:59:10 <alphaone> Works well
Aug 21 14:59:28 <Ainulindale> alphaone: with imports ?
Aug 21 14:59:39 <wurp2|working> Ainulindale: I have a big mouth
Aug 21 14:59:52 <wurp2|working> You can bet if I see you ask a question to which I think I know the answer, I'll comment ;-)
Aug 21 15:00:13 <alphaone> Ainulindale: what do you mean with imports?
Aug 21 15:01:07 <alphaone> I can import an svn repo into git locally and keep working with svn through git-svn
Aug 21 15:01:30 <alphaone> or I can push the git repo somewhere (as it's just a regular git repository)
Aug 21 15:02:00 <Ainulindale> Hmmm ok
Aug 21 15:03:26 <Ainulindale> it's fairly cryptic
Aug 21 15:03:56 <Ainulindale> Can't see how to use it simply :-/
Aug 21 15:04:28 <Ainulindale> I don't want to clone a whole repository, and I can't find how to just import things from a subdirectory
Aug 21 15:04:39 <alphaone> Ainulindale: git-svn clone shoud do
Aug 21 15:05:12 <Ainulindale> yes but what if there's a git repository already existing where I'm supposed to push ?
Aug 21 15:05:18 <alphaone> Ainulindale: Then pass the directory as URI on clone
Aug 21 15:08:35 <Ainulindale> And what about what I just told before ? :-)
Aug 21 15:08:46 <Ainulindale> Yay, segfault
Aug 21 15:11:29 <Ainulindale> alphaone: am I supposed to use git, ssh, or http for freesmartphone ?
Aug 21 15:12:01 <alphaone> Ainulindale: You got commit access?
Aug 21 15:12:07 <alphaone> then ssh
Aug 21 15:12:16 <alphaone> git@git.freesmartphone.org
Aug 21 15:12:34 <Ainulindale> ERROR:gitosis.serve.main:Arguments to command look dangerous
Aug 21 15:12:36 <Ainulindale> Haha :->
Aug 21 15:12:51 <mickeyl> git clone git@git.freesmartphone.org:libframeworkd.git
Aug 21 15:13:19 <mickeyl> err
Aug 21 15:13:21 <mickeyl> -glib, of course
Aug 21 15:13:26 <Ainulindale> To git@git.freesmartphone.org:libframeworkd-glib.git ! [rejected]        master -> master (non-fast forward)
Aug 21 15:13:40 <Ainulindale> I guess I'll have to clone then push my imported version to the clone
Aug 21 15:13:47 <mickeyl> yeah
Aug 21 15:14:00 * mickeyl points to the git expert shoragan 
Aug 21 15:14:20 <shoragan> Ainulindale, rebase
Aug 21 15:18:32 <Ainulindale> What ? :-)
Aug 21 15:19:03 <Ainulindale> That's not the problem I have :-)
Aug 21 15:19:12 <mwester> I think he's trying to tell  you to use drugs or something!  :o
Aug 21 15:19:17 <Ainulindale> :-)
Aug 21 15:21:54 <Ainulindale> Imported !
Aug 21 15:22:57 <Ainulindale> Well going home
Aug 21 15:22:59 <Ainulindale> See you later
Aug 21 15:25:08 <mickeyl> cu
Aug 21 15:36:32 <bricode> Is there a place to download the default splash.gz?
Aug 21 16:19:18 <quickdev> Hey
Aug 21 16:19:43 <quickdev> my new freerunner arrived today :)
Aug 21 16:20:19 <mickeyl> congrats!
Aug 21 16:20:58 <quickdev> indeed I hope that the police catches the thief who has my last one ;)
Aug 21 16:21:54 <mickeyl> yeah
Aug 21 16:22:06 <mickeyl> toi toi toi
Aug 21 16:25:59 <quickdev> is there a source for getting the latest fso images?
Aug 21 16:26:52 <mickeyl> shr.beartech.com iirc
Aug 21 16:29:47 <quickdev> I'll take alphaone's fso images
Aug 21 16:29:56 <mickeyl> k
Aug 21 16:30:10 <mickeyl> note that HEAD is still less functional than ms2
Aug 21 16:30:37 <mickeyl> as we're still moving some bits around
Aug 21 16:31:58 <quickdev> yeah, no problem
Aug 21 16:32:29 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: We like when you move your bits
Aug 21 16:32:51 <mickeyl> heh
Aug 21 16:32:53 <mickeyl> MOVE
Aug 21 16:32:53 <mickeyl> YOUR
Aug 21 16:32:54 <mickeyl> BITS
Aug 21 16:32:56 <mickeyl> *shake*
Aug 21 16:32:58 <Ainulindale> :-)
Aug 21 16:42:21 <Sup3rkiddo> mickeyl, hi i noticed that there is a libframework-glib in place...are these just bindings or another framework implementation?
Aug 21 16:48:28 <Ainulindale> Sup3rkiddo: bindings
Aug 21 16:48:34 <Ainulindale> Sup3rkiddo: I did that a while ago
Aug 21 16:50:03 <Sup3rkiddo> Ainulindale, oh but, i thought since its all DBus, you don't need any special bindings...i mean the daemon could be written in python and the apps could use it over dbus-glib directly...no?
Aug 21 16:51:32 <mickeyl> Sup3rkiddo: libframework-glib is the answer to the pain of using dbus from C
Aug 21 16:52:04 <mickeyl> the bindings are not _needed_, but they're helpful if you don't want to scare C guys away
Aug 21 16:52:12 <Sup3rkiddo> mickeyl, ah...!! wokay...got me confused for a second there...
Aug 21 16:52:45 * Sup3rkiddo shows off the coolness of vala + DBus
Aug 21 16:52:51 <mickeyl> :)
Aug 21 17:21:39 <ike> lindi: not much. except what is written on emdebian's website. I didn't try it (yet).
Aug 21 17:21:52 <ike> ;-) Dauther takes too much time.
Aug 21 17:22:16 <ike> daughter even.
Aug 21 17:37:21 <wurp2|working> Does anyone know the irc handle of the author of Remoko?
Aug 21 17:38:14 <wurp2|working> VDVsx: I'll bet it's you...
Aug 21 17:38:45 <VDVsx> wurp2|working, Hi
Aug 21 17:39:09 <VDVsx> wurp2|working, Its me :)
Aug 21 17:39:23 <wurp2|working> It looks very cool
Aug 21 17:39:37 <wurp2|working> and it's related to an elementary question I have... :-)
Aug 21 17:39:43 <wurp2|working> Do you know a good way to xfer info between XP and the neo, without needing to install a driver on the XP machine?
Aug 21 17:40:22 <wurp2|working> PAN with windows doesn't seem to work, and you seem like a pretty bt savvy guy :-)
Aug 21 17:40:58 <VDVsx> wurp2|working, obex, works, but you need a always on connection right ?
Aug 21 17:41:15 <wurp2|working> obex?
Aug 21 17:41:22 <wurp2|working> Actually, I don't need an always on connection
Aug 21 17:41:34 <wurp2|working> I probably just needed someone to say 'obex' to me, so I could go google it ;-)
Aug 21 17:42:03 <VDVsx> wurp2|working, obex is just to transfer files
Aug 21 17:42:39 <wurp2|working> That works great for me
Aug 21 17:42:59 <wurp2|working> I think OBEX support, or at least documentation, has been added since I last researched this
Aug 21 17:43:09 <VDVsx> wurp2|working, I think exist some instructions on it in the wiki, 1 sec
Aug 21 17:43:13 <wurp2|working> Because I see it on Manually_Using_Bluetooth, which I've read several times before
Aug 21 17:43:17 <wurp2|working> I have it, thanks much
Aug 21 17:43:25 <wurp2|working> I just needed someone to say the search term to me :-)
Aug 21 17:44:10 <Yasumoto> Hey guys, I'm a bit out of the loop right now. I recall that the previous Debian setup wouldn't fit on the default 512mb microSD card, is that the same for the "official" debian release?
Aug 21 17:45:33 <wurp2|working> But the obex section there is blank :-(  Reading general obex instructions elsewhere on the web...
Aug 21 17:45:57 <VDVsx> wurp2|working, exist a obex server and client for BlueZ I dunno if it is compiled already for ARMv4
Aug 21 17:49:56 <wurp2|working> OK, thanks
Aug 21 17:50:01 <wurp2|working> checking opkg repositories
Aug 21 17:51:06 <lindi-> Yasumoto: it barely fits
Aug 21 17:51:16 <lindi-> Yasumoto: why don't you try it on your PC first?
Aug 21 17:55:36 <wurp2|working> It looks as if obex is not ported to OM :-(
Aug 21 17:55:37 <bricode> grr. Just missed the buzz conversation. Is this channel logged somewhere?
Aug 21 17:55:46 <wurp2|working> I do see an obex package for qtopia
Aug 21 17:55:54 <wurp2|working> bricode: No :-(
Aug 21 17:55:55 <Yasumoto> lindi-: good idea, I'll double check. thanks!
Aug 21 17:56:11 <wurp2|working> bricode: We can't seem to get someone established as oper on this channel
Aug 21 17:56:22 <wurp2|working> which apparently is a necessity to getting it logged
Aug 21 17:57:49 <bricode> My boot_env is munged on NAND, and reflashing uboot doesn't seem to happen. Anyone have a sane uboot_env I can dump onto my device? I'm checking out the devirginator, but the build process for it is broken...
Aug 21 17:58:18 <bricode> Also, can someone cut and paste the relevant material on the buzz issue please?
Aug 21 17:59:26 <wurp2|working> I don't see any info on the buzz issue posted between the last time you logged off & when you logged back in this time
Aug 21 18:05:15 <bricode> wurp2|working: Thanks. Had to reboot to Linux so I could flash.
Aug 21 18:08:11 <wurp2|working> I think obex actually is there; it's just not in any of the opkg feeds in my config.
Aug 21 18:08:29 <wurp2|working> obexftp and obexpush look like the apps I'm after.  I'll have to check my feed config tonight.
Aug 21 19:54:28 <sirkha_top> muahahahah, new AT&T simcard that might actually work + 8 GB sd card *goes to AT&T Store to rub it in their, "this is our newest simcard and the only one that AT&T makes" face and to get it transfered over
Aug 21 20:00:11 <dlowe> I can't decide if T-Mobile or AT&T are more geek-friendly
Aug 21 20:04:44 <dlowe> or which is less friendly, as the case may be
Aug 21 20:15:52 <ssweeny> AT&T was a big player in the warantless wiretaps kerfluffle
Aug 21 20:18:20 <wurp2|working> sirkha_top: Yeah, I got that same "only simcard" bs when I tried to get a different
Aug 21 20:18:23 <wurp2|working> one
Aug 21 20:18:41 <wurp2|working> With the difference being that I never got another answer; I just sent my neo to MShiloh and got a firmware update, after which it worked
Aug 21 20:19:41 <dlowe> ssweeny: there hasn't been a single company that has refused as far as I know
Aug 21 20:20:03 <wurp2|working> dlowe: I think there was one...
Aug 21 20:20:24 <wurp2|working> iirc someone was using it to make the point that AT&T didn't need to cave
Aug 21 20:20:31 <dlowe> wurp2: *shrug* companies lie all the time
Aug 21 20:26:00 <ssweeny> AT&T didn't so much cave as say "sure! here you go!" whereas some other companies at least raised an eyebrow
Aug 21 20:37:04 <wurp2|working> dlowe: Qwest didn't comply with the warrantless wiretaps
Aug 21 20:37:40 <dlowe> wurp2: Qwest stated that they didn't comply
Aug 21 20:38:59 <wurp2|working> dlowe: So you know that they did?
Aug 21 20:39:33 <dlowe> wurp2: I'm being explicit about what is known
Aug 21 20:40:41 <dlowe> I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but companies lie all the time, and it wouldn't surprise me if they were complicit in the wiretapping and then said they weren't.  Who would say otherwise?
Aug 21 20:43:27 <wurp2|working> dlowe: With no other information, all we can do is support the companies for which we have the best evidence of good behavior
Aug 21 20:43:56 <wurp2|working> dlowe: Often, lying without weasel-words gets you into (much) more trouble than the misbehavior you're lying about
Aug 21 20:44:05 <Ainulindale> wurp2|working: HEY !
Aug 21 20:44:14 <Ainulindale> Beer is good ! Beer is great !
Aug 21 20:44:15 <wurp2|working> Ainulindale: WHA!?
Aug 21 20:44:17 <Ainulindale> And BBQ are great also !
Aug 21 20:44:25 <wurp2|working> BBQ I can take or leave
Aug 21 20:44:33 <wurp2|working> A good beer can make me happy
Aug 21 20:44:38 <dlowe> wurp2: you are insufficiently cynical ;)
Aug 21 20:45:10 <wurp2|working> dlowe: So you're saying that we *shouldn't* support the companies for which we have the best evidence of good behavior?
Aug 21 20:45:37 <Ainulindale> wurp2|working: A good BBQ with a nice piece of steak and two beers plus a good wine bottle 
Aug 21 20:45:43 <Ainulindale> And you tell me you can leave
Aug 21 20:45:44 <wurp2|working> And I've found, regardless of the relationship of my beliefs to reality, optimism makes me a much happier and more productive person
Aug 21 20:45:53 <Ainulindale> You don't have good taste obviously :-p
Aug 21 20:45:53 <wurp2|working> Yeah, I don't care for steak :-)
Aug 21 20:46:37 <dlowe> wurp2: Optimism and cynicism can co-exist, but you can't support Qwest unless you live in the Western US, which makes it a bit theoretical for me
Aug 21 20:48:17 <_chronic> companies may be immoral, being abstract entities an' all, but isn't oe & openmoko all about starting to take back power & responsibility for our own communication requirements? well, that's why i'm here anyway, beyond open source/tech fetishism. :-)
Aug 21 20:48:32 <wurp2|working> dlowe: Yeah, me too
Aug 21 20:49:39 <dlowe> _chronic: yeah, me too. I'm just trying to find a carrier now :)
Aug 21 20:50:11 <wurp2|working> I just did the lazy thing and went with AT&T
Aug 21 20:50:15 <_chronic> heh. sure. use 'em only when you need them :-)
Aug 21 20:50:17 <wurp2|working> I already had a gophone account with them
Aug 21 20:50:20 <wurp2|working> I hate contracts
Aug 21 20:54:22 <quickdev> Does anyone know if the neo freerunner is charged with the wall charger even if it's off? 
Aug 21 20:57:16 <wurp2|working> quickdev: It should at least slow charge
Aug 21 20:57:19 <wurp2|working> gta01 does
Aug 21 20:58:07 <quickdev> I'm worrying about my new freerunner. sys/bus/driver/... values indicated that it wasn't charging...now it's off at my wall charger
Aug 21 21:08:58 <quickdev> solved it
Aug 21 21:31:46 <abie> \wc
Aug 21 21:54:02 <paulproteus> I'm trying to install Debian on my FreeRunner, and I get I/O errors sometimes writing to this 2GB micro SD card I just bought from Office Depot.
Aug 21 21:54:30 <paulproteus> I got similar errors with a previous card of the same brand; I actually asked them to give me this one as a warranty replacement.  How should I go about troubleshooting this?
Aug 21 22:03:42 <mwester> paulproteus:  search the ml archives (kernel list) for the /sys/ nodes controlling the clock and power to the SD card slot -- then try to lower the clock and/or increase the power to see if that resolves the issue at all.
Aug 21 22:04:00 <paulproteus> mwester, Which list?  kernel?
Aug 21 22:04:48 <paulproteus> https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/1802 has some discussion.
Aug 21 22:05:09 <mwester> kernel ml
Aug 21 22:06:32 <paulproteus> Great.
Aug 21 22:10:23 <paulproteus> mwester, I'm going to switch to the official 2008.8 kernel first - right now I'm running the stock 2007.2 that came with the FR.
Aug 21 22:11:18 <paulproteus> From what I recall, the version of uBoot I have installed can matter - is that right?  And is http://buildhost.openmoko.org/daily/freerunner/200808/20080820/uboot-gta02v5-latest.bin a reasonable uboot to be using?
Aug 21 22:14:20 <w_erase> paulproteus, why reason you want to change uboot ? 
Aug 21 22:14:38 <w_erase> s/why/what/
Aug 21 22:14:58 <paulproteus> w_erase, I read somewhere that old uboot created race conditions with uSD boot, which is my current goal.
Aug 21 22:15:35 <w_erase> ok
Aug 21 22:16:20 <w_erase> You know if  SD boot faster/slower than embedded flash ? 
Aug 21 22:18:28 <mickeyl> if you're SD is on a huge bus, yes
Aug 21 22:18:35 <mickeyl> s/you're/your/
Aug 21 22:18:54 <mickeyl> which (in case of the FreeRunner) is not
Aug 21 22:20:14 <paulproteus> I've wondered - is it possible to use the embedded flash as space for kernel buffers/cache when booting from SD?
Aug 21 22:21:28 <[Rui]> hi, last night I let open-moko-devel making and all 5k objects built successfully, however I noticed it built a lot of images...
Aug 21 22:21:36 <w_erase> iirc flash has a given number of writes ... I would not write buffer/caches on a memory I could not change... right ?   
Aug 21 22:21:53 <[Rui]> I'm of a mind of speeding it up for me, and also not waste so much space, is it easy to block it from making the other images?
Aug 21 22:33:59 <paulproteus> mwester, doing "echo 10000000 > /sys/module/glamo_mci/parameters/sd_max_clk" seems to have made the problem go away.
Aug 21 22:34:32 <paulproteus> Er, but the phone just either turned off or went to sleep and pressing power briefly doesn't bring it back.
Aug 21 22:35:39 * paulproteus reboots
Aug 21 22:35:56 <paulproteus> mwester, I guess the next step is to make that part of the uboot arguments to the kernel, and then I'll have worked around the issue.
Aug 21 23:33:29 <sirkha_top> yeah, i like AT&T overall, a lot more than I like Qwest.  AT&T may not have done the right thing in that situation, which was a poor legal decision on their part, and an even poorer PR decision, in hindsight. Qwest, however, has the tendency to screw all of its customers and employees on a daily basis.  (I have a long collection of stories including that of the battle of my best friend's mother who worked there, and got fir
Aug 21 23:34:05 <sirkha_top> but I am happy now that I have a working sim
Aug 21 23:34:24 <sirkha_top> i will have to get the firmware updated at some point, before I go overseas, though, so i don't run into this problem
Aug 21 23:35:14 <ace--> why was it a poor pr decision? 
Aug 21 23:35:22 <ace--> americans don't care about privacy anymore :)
Aug 21 23:35:38 <sirkha_top> thats obviously not completely true, or we wouldn't be talking about it ;)
Aug 21 23:35:47 <sirkha_top>  #openmoko-offtopic
Aug 21 23:40:37 <paulproteus> Howdy MichaelShiloh.
Aug 21 23:43:24 <rwhitby> morning
Aug 21 23:45:47 <MichaelShiloh>  hi paul, hi rod
Aug 21 23:59:17 <sirkha_top> what is the story with contact management in FSO?
Aug 22 00:04:53 <mwester_> Good Morning Johnboy...
Aug 22 02:32:28 <paulproteus> Muahah!
Aug 22 02:32:37 <paulproteus> Making phone calls from inside Debian.
Aug 22 02:32:46 <wantok> :D
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Aug 22 02:59:56 2008