**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Aug 27 02:59:56 2008
Aug 27 03:02:25 <RPStudent09> is there anyone here that has even built their own openmoko?
Aug 27 03:40:01 <mwester> RPStudent09:  many.
Aug 27 03:41:23 <mwester> In the text before the part you pasted into the channel (use pastebin next time, please), it should call out the name to the log file that has the actual compilation errors -- just read that log and it should tell you what's missing or wrong.
Aug 27 04:47:23 <kd8ikt>  
Aug 27 08:52:12 <b0ef> where did I find how to turn on logging for frameworkd?
Aug 27 08:53:26 <charlie137> b0ef: you can set the logging level for every subsystem in the conf file
Aug 27 08:53:32 <charlie137> framework.conf
Aug 27 08:54:39 <charlie137> * frameworkd.conf
Aug 27 08:54:57 <b0ef> right, thanks; does is use syslog?
Aug 27 08:55:24 <b0ef> or where does it log to?
Aug 27 08:56:27 <charlie137> it uses python logging module
Aug 27 08:56:38 <charlie137> so you can have several ouput
Aug 27 08:56:46 <charlie137> (files, syslog, stout...)
Aug 27 08:57:29 <charlie137> but it is set to stdout
Aug 27 08:58:36 <charlie137> is you want to use syslog, you can edit the file config.py
Aug 27 09:01:19 * Weiss jinxes his OE build by declaring that it's almost finished with no bad stuff happening whatsoever
Aug 27 09:07:19 <b0ef> charlie137: right, "I'm using frameworkd -d 2>&1|tee fso-debug"
Aug 27 09:09:21 <charlie137> b0ef: yes that should do the trick
Aug 27 09:10:06 <charlie137> remember that you can set the log level individually for every subsystems
Aug 27 09:10:31 <b0ef> yes, thanks, but I need to figure out which subsystem is faulting
Aug 27 09:20:07 <b0ef> any reason I'm not able to launch zhone from a terminal when logged in via ssh?
Aug 27 09:20:19 <b0ef> http://www.esben-stien.name/zhone-debug
Aug 27 09:20:32 <b0ef> it launches fine from an xterm on the neo
Aug 27 09:34:01 <charlie137> export DISPLAY=:0 ?
Aug 27 09:42:06 <b0ef> right, thanks
Aug 27 09:42:07 <b0ef> it was set to DISPLAY=0:0
Aug 27 09:42:22 <b0ef> , but that still should work, shouldn't it?
Aug 27 09:46:47 <b0ef> guess not;)
Aug 27 09:46:48 <b0ef> thanks..
Aug 27 10:09:45 <aleix> hi
Aug 27 10:10:56 <BDo> If I understand well, the current kernel used is 2.6.22.1 based, no CONFIG_NO_HZ yet ?
Aug 27 10:11:36 <BDo> I tried to port the patchset bit with 81 hunks failed it is a really big job. 
Aug 27 10:12:08 <BDo> Any plan to get a more recent kernel on the FR ? I'd be glad to join !
Aug 27 10:16:34 <b0ef> frameworkd is using 98% cpu, just idling
Aug 27 10:17:52 <BDo> You mean, getting a tickless kernel would have little impact for the moment ?
Aug 27 10:19:35 <b0ef> no, not talking to you;)
Aug 27 10:19:49 <b0ef> you ain't running debian?
Aug 27 10:20:12 <charlie137> b0ef: 98% cpu !!!
Aug 27 10:20:14 <charlie137> not good
Aug 27 10:20:36 <b0ef> hmm, I can't get zhone to die without my sim card in it
Aug 27 10:20:55 <b0ef> but this 98% cpu might have something to do with it;)
Aug 27 10:25:50 <b0ef> oh, nice; a fso-frameworkd upgrade is available today;)
Aug 27 10:36:12 <CIA-20> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07sms-pdu * r1d2b5fe28f59 10framework/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/abstract/ (channel.py mediator.py): 
Aug 27 10:36:12 <CIA-20> freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: Enable PDU mode and use it in SimRetrieveMessagebook
Aug 27 10:36:12 <CIA-20> freesmartphone.org: Note: +CSMS=1 seems to fail in PDU mode
Aug 27 10:36:13 <CIA-20> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07sms-pdu * r2efc01c2f922 10framework/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/ (const.py sms.py): 
Aug 27 10:36:16 <CIA-20> freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: Add a direction attribute for the SMS object
Aug 27 10:36:18 <CIA-20> freesmartphone.org: MT: Mobile terminated, MO: Mobile originated
Aug 27 10:36:20 <CIA-20> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07sms-pdu * rdaeb328662a7 10framework/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/ (convert.py sms.py): 
Aug 27 10:36:23 <CIA-20> freesmartphone.org: ogsmd: Add functions to encode SMS back to PDUs
Aug 27 10:36:25 <CIA-20> freesmartphone.org: This is still buggy, pack_sevenbit doesn't work if UDH are present.
Aug 27 10:36:27 <CIA-20> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07sms-pdu * rb42a7bb94a0b 10framework/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm/sms.py: ogsmd: Use and test the PDU generation code
Aug 27 11:16:30 <MarcOChapeau> Ainulindale: http://openmoko-fr.org/wiki/index.php/2008-09-05_:_La_Cantine#Inscriptions
Aug 27 11:23:57 <Ainulindale> MarcOChapeau: Can't
Aug 27 11:24:01 <Ainulindale> I'm in Toulouse this day
Aug 27 11:24:05 <MarcOChapeau> ok
Aug 27 11:24:14 <Ainulindale> I would like to be there but I can't :-/
Aug 27 11:24:56 <MarcOChapeau> Ainulindale: I had to post comments on linuxfr and on lacantine.org to correct some news pages where they implied the Neo was ready for dummy users...
Aug 27 11:39:18 <Ainulindale> I saw your posts :-)
Aug 27 11:56:40 <CIA-20> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r0a01a5d73ec6 10/src/zhone: apply fix for gps signal strength (thanks quickdev)
Aug 27 12:29:21 <BDo> MarcOChapeau, I'll try to be there, I should be able to.
Aug 27 12:48:42 <Ainulindale> DocScrutinizer: don't worry about Dave
Aug 27 12:48:46 <Ainulindale> Just stop answering to him
Aug 27 12:48:51 <Ainulindale> He'll stop to bug you
Aug 27 12:49:05 <Ainulindale> (He did the same with me for weeks, each time I told him it was a boring habit)
Aug 27 12:53:07 <MarcOChapeau> BDo: Just looking or presenting something ?
Aug 27 12:53:48 <BDo> Looking for the moment, MarcOChapeau. I won't be ready to show a tickless FreeRunner in time :-)
Aug 27 12:54:20 <MarcOChapeau> BDo: tickless as in a tickless kernel ?
Aug 27 12:55:20 <BDo> Yes, MarcOChapeau. The One Thing that will improve battery life.
Aug 27 12:55:42 <BDo> It seems ready on ARM architectures on the current kernel
Aug 27 12:56:03 <BDo> but definately not on a 2.6.22.x !
Aug 27 12:57:12 <BDo> The HZ is defined as 200 on the reference kernel.
Aug 27 12:57:57 <BDo> On x86 architectures on desktop systems, this improvement has turned a HZ IRQ a second into less than 2 IRQ/s on average...
Aug 27 13:54:38 <CIA-20> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * re9d9a1994c19 10/ (ChangeLog framework/subsystems/odeviced/kernel26.py): odeviced: use kobject uevent netlink socket to implement polling-free power status notifications
Aug 27 13:58:37 <CIA-20> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07specs * r8b19896e8280 10/ (2 files in 2 dirs): ousage: update ousage documentation
Aug 27 14:00:47 <rwhitby-tokyo> morning
Aug 27 14:02:54 <Sargun_screen> morning.
Aug 27 14:11:26 <CIA-20> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07artwork * r8abd707f8cf9 10/sounds/ (notify_charging.wav notify_discharging.wav): add charging and discharging tones
Aug 27 14:44:20 <CIA-20> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r3e07f8280afb 10/ (5 files in 3 dirs): 
Aug 27 14:44:20 <CIA-20> freesmartphone.org: oeventsd: add triggers and rules for power management
Aug 27 14:44:20 <CIA-20> freesmartphone.org: (NOTE: after MS3 we need to separate the device specific stuff from the generic stuff here!)
Aug 27 14:54:32 <Ainulindale> mickey|zzZZzz: by the way did you think about the timed suspend thing ?
Aug 27 14:54:47 <Ainulindale> For FSO, the distro.
Aug 27 15:07:19 <CIA-20> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r4a1e0f8d96f5 10/src/zhone: adjust to the new ResourceChanged signal
Aug 27 15:10:01 <CIA-20> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * r13e4a528db1c 10/ (ChangeLog framework/subsystems/ousaged/generic.py): ousaged: add more information to the ResourceChanged signal
Aug 27 15:50:41 <wurp2|gone> Ainulindale: How's it going?
Aug 27 15:54:12 <mickeyl> evening
Aug 27 15:54:34 <mickeyl> Ainulindale: timed suspend? have a use case for that?
Aug 27 15:54:56 <wurp2|gone> mickeyl: So my batteries don't die while I'm out
Aug 27 15:56:11 <mickeyl> aah
Aug 27 15:56:20 <mickeyl> that timed suspend
Aug 27 15:56:33 <mickeyl> yes, that's prepared. just needs to be enabled in zhone
Aug 27 15:56:44 <mickeyl> i was not too convinced suspend/resume works reliable yet
Aug 27 15:56:48 <mickeyl> otherwise i had enabled it already
Aug 27 15:56:50 <wurp2|gone> OK, excellent
Aug 27 15:56:51 <mickeyl> what's your findings?
Aug 27 15:56:58 <wurp2|gone> I thought suspend/resume was stable on FSO
Aug 27 15:57:04 <mickeyl> it used to be
Aug 27 15:57:05 <wurp2|gone> I used MS 1 for a few weeks
Aug 27 15:57:11 <wurp2|gone> and it seemed quite good
Aug 27 15:57:12 <b0ef> are all of you running the modified old tslib?
Aug 27 15:57:12 <mickeyl> but i think recent kernels have brought instability back
Aug 27 15:57:25 <wurp2|gone> I did eventually have some problems with MS 1, but I think it was other stuff I hacked into it :-(
Aug 27 15:57:33 <wurp2|gone> mickeyl: Oh, I haven't tried recently :-(
Aug 27 15:57:41 <b0ef> when I use the old tslib, the cursor is fine, but I think it might cause zhone to freeze; you think that's possible?
Aug 27 15:57:57 <b0ef> I can't get it to freeze now, since I'm not running the old tslib, it seems
Aug 27 15:58:20 <wurp2|gone> b0ef: Sorry, I dunno what tslib is :-)
Aug 27 16:07:24 <CIA-20> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r25cbcac81846 10/src/zhone: fix start page option
Aug 27 16:07:25 <CIA-20> freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07zhone * r3cceb0740ac1 10/src/zhone: start better pin entry dialog
Aug 27 17:15:10 <aleix> hi
Aug 27 18:45:54 <jancona> I'm trying to get zhone to run on a Debian desktop and not having much luck. Has anyone here been able to do that?
Aug 27 18:47:50 <lindi-> jancona: i only built it on desktop, did not try to run
Aug 27 18:47:57 <lindi-> jancona: could you describe your problem?
Aug 27 18:48:22 <jancona> lindi-: Sure, thanks
Aug 27 18:49:36 <jancona> I built a base Debian system (in a VM) set my sources.list to match the one in the install.sh, and installed the packages specified there
Aug 27 18:50:27 <jancona> I had to add the proper video driver, then X would start, but zhone seg faults whenever I try to start it
Aug 27 18:50:50 <lindi-> jancona: zhone is a python program with very small native part
Aug 27 18:50:56 <lindi-> jancona: so is it python that segfaults?
Aug 27 18:52:05 <jancona> lindi-: It's hard to tell
Aug 27 18:52:29 <lindi-> jancona: remove the native part
Aug 27 18:52:46 <lindi-> jancona: if it crashes after that then it must be python itself
Aug 27 18:53:18 <jancona> What should I remove?
Aug 27 18:54:19 <lindi-> jancona: *illume*glue* or something is the package name?
Aug 27 18:58:23 <jancona> lindi-: Right zhone-illume-glue
Aug 27 19:01:19 <jancona> lindi-: Problem is apt-get remove will remove zhone too
Aug 27 19:01:48 <jancona> I'm trying to figure out a file I can delete or rename to see what happens
Aug 27 19:05:49 <lindi-> jancona: it only has one file anyway?
Aug 27 19:14:31 <jancona> lindi-: I renamed /usr/lib/python-support/zhone-illume-glue/python2.5/illume.so to illume.so.xxx, but I still get the same "Segmentation fault" message
Aug 27 19:18:48 <lindi-> jancona: great
Aug 27 19:19:39 <lindi-> jancona: are you familiar with gdb?
Aug 27 19:20:09 <jancona> lindi-: No
Aug 27 19:20:30 <jancona> Maybe I should just abandon the idea
Aug 27 19:20:33 <lindi-> jancona: or C?
Aug 27 19:21:21 <jancona> lindi-: I know C, but don't use it often these days
Aug 27 19:21:47 <lindi-> jancona: ok. now you have the perfect opportunity to learn more :)
Aug 27 19:22:10 <jancona> lindi-: Ok, what do you suggest?
Aug 27 19:22:23 <lindi-> jancona: 1) apt-get source python 2) sudo apt-get install python2.5-dbg 3) gdb --args python /usr/bin/zhone
Aug 27 19:25:11 <lindi-> jancona: sorry, 1) apt-get source python2.5
Aug 27 19:25:28 <lindi-> jancona: then you want to say to gdb 4) directory ./python2.5-2.5.2/Modules/
Aug 27 19:25:31 <lindi-> jancona: 5) run
Aug 27 19:25:36 <lindi-> jancona: and wait for it to crash
Aug 27 19:32:08 <jancona> lindi-: Did that and got: Starting program: /usr/bin/python /usr/bin/zhone
Aug 27 19:32:08 <jancona> [Thread debugging using libthread_db enabled]
Aug 27 19:32:08 <jancona> [New Thread 0xb7dad8c0 (LWP 3242)]
Aug 27 19:32:45 <jancona> Now it seems to be hung, but no Segmentation fault reported
Aug 27 19:34:28 <jancona> lindi-: I've got to run right now. Thanks for the help. I'll try again later
Aug 27 19:43:38 <Weiss> i still don't quite understand the branches available at http://git.openmoko.org/?p=openmoko.git;a=summary - is org.openmoko.dev still 2007.2? it seems to be in active development more than expected. which one is the "bleeding edge" state of ASU?
Aug 27 19:49:09 <MarcOChapeau> hey b0ef :-) so you're in too ?
Aug 27 19:54:36 <sirkha_top> Weiss: i swear you asked the exact same question yesterday
Aug 27 19:54:56 <Weiss> sirkha_top: i did, but noone replied. i'm convinced everyone but me knows the answer...
Aug 27 19:55:34 <Weiss> thanks for noticing though :)
Aug 27 19:55:49 <sirkha_top> I don't know the answer :-p
Aug 27 19:55:53 <sirkha_top> granted i don't care that much
Aug 27 19:56:05 <mwester> Weiss:  I don't think even Openmoko knows the answer.
Aug 27 19:56:47 <sirkha_top> i do remember somebody mentioning that "the community" was still hacking on the 2007 line, but that could have been me dreaming for all i know
Aug 27 19:57:04 <Weiss> what i suppose i'm really asking is this: if i want to be able to hack around with EVERYTHING at the source level, how should i set my environment up?
Aug 27 19:58:57 <Weiss> i.e. i want to be able to inspect what's going on and contribute the maximum amount to debugging
Aug 27 19:59:09 <Weiss> ("don't even try this" would be a valid, though disappointing, answer)
Aug 27 20:02:13 <sirkha_top> debugging what, though?
Aug 27 20:02:17 <sirkha_top> 2008.8?
Aug 27 20:02:22 <sirkha_top> (aka asu)
Aug 27 20:02:34 <Weiss> yes, this stuff: http://downloads.openmoko.org/releases/Om2008.8-update/
Aug 27 20:03:49 <Weiss> the explanations at http://git.openmoko.org/?p=openmoko.git;a=summary don't correspond to the branches available any more
Aug 27 20:04:10 <Weiss> i want something like rwhitby's crystal-clear README file for the FSO buildhost
Aug 27 20:04:25 <sirkha_top> http://docs.openmoko.org/trac/browser
Aug 27 20:04:27 <sirkha_top> looked here
Aug 27 20:04:35 <sirkha_top> and fso is completely different
Aug 27 20:05:00 <sirkha_top> http://trac.freesmartphone.org/browser
Aug 27 20:05:56 <Weiss> yes, i know (i mean i want the equivalent of that README, but for the official stuff - i.e. this builds X from Y branch of Z repository using options A, B and C)
Aug 27 20:07:49 <Weiss> although the metadata retrieve/patch/build/stage/rm_work process of OE makes it difficult to hack around to your heart's contents like you can with other things
Aug 27 20:08:49 <Weiss> perhaps the best way is to concentrate on the meta toolchain and fetch the sources i'm interested in from SVN/git/etc and play there, building my own packages
Aug 27 20:09:06 <b0ef> MarcOChapeau: yeah, I'm in the club;)
Aug 27 20:14:22 <MarcOChapeau> b0ef: got you're neo yet ?
Aug 27 20:14:48 <b0ef> MarcOChapeau: yeah, trying to get everything up, with debian and all;)
Aug 27 20:14:57 <b0ef> MarcOChapeau: you jacking on it?;)
Aug 27 20:15:33 <b0ef> I first have some issues to resolve before I can jack
Aug 27 20:15:38 <MarcOChapeau> b0ef: well, no... I'm (meant) to work on the shr devel. porting the dialer to the FSO framework
Aug 27 20:15:59 <b0ef> yeah, that would be totally excellent
Aug 27 20:16:02 <MarcOChapeau> b0ef: afair, jack used to start on the emulator
Aug 27 20:16:26 <MarcOChapeau> b0ef: well, if you have any gtk knowledge, you're very welcome to help :p
Aug 27 20:16:30 <b0ef> I subscribed to the shr list yesterday
Aug 27 20:16:49 <b0ef> well, only thing I will be doing until christmas is opengl
Aug 27 20:16:56 <MarcOChapeau> we're actually not far away from succeding... this issue is time
Aug 27 20:17:13 <MarcOChapeau> *the issue
Aug 27 20:17:22 <b0ef> yeah, getting that dialer back will be awesome
Aug 27 20:18:46 <b0ef> I'm a little worried about all the daemons getting merged, though, in fso
Aug 27 20:19:04 <b0ef> haven't really looked close at it, but it's a little worrysome..;)
Aug 27 20:20:01 <bricode> Anyone have any problems with u-boot_envs? Looks like I can only boot if I pass the "roofstype" instead of "rootfstype" argument.
Aug 27 20:24:12 <sirkha_top> whats worrysome about merging the daemons?
Aug 27 20:26:13 <b0ef> sirkha_top: well, it becomes less clean and I guess it's done on a performance ticket
Aug 27 20:26:43 <sirkha_top> ah
Aug 27 20:26:58 <sirkha_top> less python instances or something *isn't sure how that works*
Aug 27 20:34:20 <sirkha_top> that was supposed to be a question
Aug 27 20:35:06 <b0ef> well, less daemons running around is their rationale, as far as I understand
Aug 27 20:35:36 <b0ef> it's a free runner, so we need things running, in my opinion
Aug 27 20:35:57 <sirkha_top> on the other hand, the unix philosiphy says that its better to have many small programs than one large one is more stable
Aug 27 20:36:10 <b0ef> exactly
Aug 27 20:36:12 <sirkha_top> that way if one crashes, the others survive, or something
Aug 27 20:36:18 <b0ef> indeed
Aug 27 20:36:34 <sirkha_top> but either way works for me
Aug 27 20:36:45 <sirkha_top> providing it works for me
Aug 27 20:44:05 <sirkha_top> mickeyl: it looks like networkmanager 0.7 also has hal in its dependency tree
Aug 27 20:46:10 <sirkha_top> actually, the 0.6 line also does, it seems
Aug 27 20:47:39 <aleix> hi
Aug 27 20:47:52 <sirkha_top> hi
Aug 27 20:48:01 <sirkha_top> lovely, freedesktop.org is down for me
Aug 27 20:48:04 <sirkha_top> anyone else?
Aug 27 20:48:40 <aleix> sirkha_top: same here
Aug 27 20:49:51 <sirkha_top> *is trying to install things off of it
Aug 27 20:50:18 <aleix> Ainulindale: did you receive my email?
Aug 27 21:55:29 <write_erase> Someone building images under FreeBSD ? 
Aug 27 21:56:14 <mwester> nope.
Aug 27 21:57:41 <mwester> I think there's been some (very small) level of interest in getting OE to run on BSD, and certainly the developers of the OE build system have done nothing to explicitly exclude BSD, but I don't think any ever got it working or expects it to work without a lot of TLC.
Aug 27 21:58:33 <mwester> Heck I consider it a good day when a major change happens and it still works on Fedora.   The core devs all work on Debian, so that's the path of least resistance.
Aug 27 22:01:07 <CIA-20> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rce06f9f0eccc 10/framework/subsystems/odeviced/kernel26.py: 
Aug 27 22:01:07 <CIA-20> freesmartphone.org: odeviced: kernel26: fix power supply class logic, if not present
Aug 27 22:01:07 <CIA-20> freesmartphone.org: Yay, this now works even if battery is hot-swapped -- even if you change
Aug 27 22:01:07 <CIA-20> freesmartphone.org: from a TH (which has no power supply support yet) to a CC (which has).
Aug 27 22:02:29 * mickeyl notes being a core dev not working on Debian
Aug 27 22:03:00 * mwester bets it's Ubuntu then
Aug 27 22:03:09 <mickeyl> nope :)
Aug 27 22:03:12 * mickeyl hugs Mandriva
Aug 27 22:03:13 <mwester> Gentoo?
Aug 27 22:03:22 * mwester is surprised.
Aug 27 22:03:32 <mickeyl> been working with Mandriva since years
Aug 27 22:03:38 <mickeyl> regularly trying alternatives
Aug 27 22:03:40 <mickeyl> always coming back
Aug 27 22:04:36 <mwester> I didn't know that; I guess you just quietly fix all the things to make it work on Mandriva -- either that or Mandriva remains very close to Debian, I guess.
Aug 27 22:05:00 <mickeyl> well
Aug 27 22:05:05 <mickeyl> i do not have much to do, frankly
Aug 27 22:05:10 <mickeyl> mandriva is far from debian
Aug 27 22:05:22 <mickeyl> it was a derived from red hat 5 years ago or so
Aug 27 22:05:43 <mickeyl> (probably longer ago)
Aug 27 22:05:58 * stefan_schmidt mumbles that all of mickeyl build hosts run debian... ;)
Aug 27 22:06:15 <mickeyl> all except my local one
Aug 27 22:06:19 <mickeyl> tis true
Aug 27 22:06:19 <stefan_schmidt> heh
Aug 27 22:06:33 <mickeyl> (which is the one i do most work on)
Aug 27 22:07:59 <mickeyl> we need someone to finish battery class support for the TH batteries
Aug 27 22:08:05 <mickeyl> or... write it in the first place
Aug 27 22:08:54 <lindi-> mickeyl: do they have source code CDs? i only found binaries at ftp://ftp.informatik.hu-berlin.de/pub/Linux/Distributions/Mandrake/Mandrakelinux/official/iso/2008.1
Aug 27 22:09:15 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: Not sure if you find someone for this job easily. :(
Aug 27 22:09:19 <mickeyl> good question, never used any, but i believe they have lots of SRPMS
Aug 27 22:09:38 <mickeyl> stefan_schmidt: agreed. i won't ask Om (obsolete... ya know)
Aug 27 22:09:55 <mickeyl> but still i like to have the poll free battery handling
Aug 27 22:09:56 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: yeah, I know :(
Aug 27 22:09:58 <mickeyl> also on 01
Aug 27 22:10:47 * mwester wished someone wealthy would leave him a tidy sum of money, so he could quit his job and spend more time hacking this stuff.
Aug 27 22:10:47 <mickeyl> the CC is pretty nice
Aug 27 22:11:00 <mickeyl> it counts all the way down from 100 to 4
Aug 27 22:11:02 <mickeyl> then jumps to 0
Aug 27 22:11:07 <mickeyl> and ... dies
Aug 27 22:11:21 <mickeyl> mwester: what are you doing for a living?
Aug 27 22:12:21 <mickeyl> mwester: if I were in charge, i'd hire you for Om. But I don't know whether you would be able to work in such an environment ;)
Aug 27 22:12:31 <lindi-> mickeyl: do they have something like packages.debian.org so that i could quickly review how serious they are about free software?
Aug 27 22:13:50 <mickeyl> no idea offhand. i never had to use that, since they ship quite a good package manager. but i'm sure you'll find something on the mandriva.com sites
Aug 27 22:13:56 <mickeyl> they have quite an extensive wiki
Aug 27 22:16:33 <CIA-20> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r847182a42d02 10/conf/example/frameworkd.conf: document additional configuration keys
Aug 27 22:19:51 <lindi-> mickeyl: http://club.mandriva.com/xwiki/bin/view/rpms/ seems to want me to login to see results
Aug 27 22:22:48 <lindi-> mickeyl: if http://sophie.zarb.org/viewrpm/fc75a8dc93c97f50ee9829b6aafa7291/deps can be trusted they link elinks (GPLv2) with openssl (original BSD license with advertising clause) :(
Aug 27 22:23:12 <mickeyl> http://club.mandriva.com/xwiki/bin/view/rpms/Distributions
Aug 27 22:23:27 <mickeyl> then browse all the way through
Aug 27 22:23:38 <mickeyl> well, i'm not a license expert
Aug 27 22:23:50 <mickeyl> and to be honest, i never chose a distro based on that fact
Aug 27 22:24:06 <mickeyl> i'm using mandriva since everything i want to do works there
Aug 27 22:24:09 <mickeyl> that's about it
Aug 27 22:24:14 <mickeyl> yes, very pragmatic, i know
Aug 27 22:24:20 <lindi-> sure, different priorities we all have
Aug 27 22:24:36 <lindi-> i want to always be able to share and change the software i use and recommend
Aug 27 22:25:20 * mwester has seen what Stallman looks like, and has decided that license extremism is an unhealthy lifestyle.
Aug 27 22:25:56 <sirkha_top> i don't like richard stallman... 
Aug 27 22:26:05 <mwester> mickeyl:  I work for a software tools vendor; and I rather agree that Om might not be well suited ;) :D
Aug 27 22:27:41 <cjb> It's unfortunate that RMS turns so many people off.
Aug 27 22:28:02 * cjb doesn't like working with RMS, but hasn't let that turn him off from the GPL as a default license.
Aug 27 22:28:09 <lindi-> mwester: heh, its just following the law in this case. those licenses are quite clearly incompatible
Aug 27 22:28:44 <cjb> lindi-: They are probably claiming the system software exception.
Aug 27 22:28:50 <cjb> lindi-: Fedora does too, probably also Debian?
Aug 27 22:29:27 <cjb> for openssl.
Aug 27 22:30:20 <lindi-> cjb: elinks in debian uses gnutls
Aug 27 22:30:31 <cjb> ah
Aug 27 22:30:52 <cjb> yeah, Mandriva isn't known for free software purity.  Similar to Ubuntu, I guess.
Aug 27 22:39:01 <lindi-> mickeyl: http://sophie.zarb.org/viewrpm/feb2b7819fbf3e955e7fd58e4c197d1f also oddly says that latex2html would be under GPL. LICENSE file inside http://saftsack.fs.uni-bayreuth.de/~latex2ht/current/latex2html-2002-2-1.tar.gz says 'No fees or compensation are charged for use, copies, or access to this software.'
Aug 27 22:39:19 <lindi-> (and that is listed as a restriction for redistribution)
Aug 27 22:40:19 <mickeyl> sounds like a couple of bug reports
Aug 27 22:41:09 <lindi-> i doubt it has ever been under gpl
Aug 27 22:42:11 <sirkha_top> ok, two identical files are compiled with identical options, except for the name of the output, one runs one doesn't, why?
Aug 27 22:43:55 <sirkha_top> *finds it* one has an option one doesn't forgot about that bloody little detail, blah, 2 hours of life wasted
Aug 28 01:29:28 <bricode> Any links on how to build u-boot these days?
Aug 28 01:43:08 <tomjoad440> anybody around that knows where developement on shr is happening?
Aug 28 01:44:38 <tomjoad440> the wiki seems to indicate on projects.openmoko.org but from the mailing list there is the one Julien has control over
Aug 28 01:45:55 <tomjoad440> I'm guessing there is no one around so I'll just ask later
Aug 28 01:51:49 <mmontour> bricode: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/U-boot#Bootloader_source_code is fairly close (ignore the bit about subversion)
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