**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Sep 26 02:59:56 2008 Sep 26 06:14:18 bengo: there is always hope Sep 26 06:14:31 bengo: but currently the software side is still beta Sep 26 06:14:53 freesmartphone.org: 03jluebbe 07framework * r23fbc817c8c7 10/ (conf/example/frameworkd.conf framework/persist.py): frameworkd: add simple persistance module Sep 26 06:15:17 thanks for the link CIA-57 Sep 26 06:15:18 anyway, compared to what the iphone costs (monthly fee), $400 is a joke Sep 26 06:15:56 nyu: what do you mean ? Sep 26 06:16:21 its cheap Sep 26 06:16:27 bengo: iphone comes with a contract Sep 26 06:16:39 most smartphones "full cost" when they are release is in the range of $600-$1200 Sep 26 06:16:52 go to a store and check its full no-contract, unlocked shelf price Sep 26 06:17:07 (not on discount because its old or off the back of a truck) Sep 26 06:17:17 raster: do they sell iphones like that? I might want to do that test to see the price Sep 26 06:17:30 still, freerunner could be cheaper than 400 when increasing production ( make and sell more unit ) Sep 26 06:17:46 definitely Sep 26 06:17:50 nyu: dunno Sep 26 06:17:53 but look at htc's Sep 26 06:17:55 palm's Sep 26 06:17:58 winmobile etc. phones Sep 26 06:18:01 bengo: but as I said the sw is still beta.. Sep 26 06:18:07 there's quite a masse of them Sep 26 06:18:10 hp ipaq's Sep 26 06:18:12 etc. Sep 26 06:18:16 you can't expand out of the niche geek market with beta sw Sep 26 06:18:17 dont just focus on iphone Sep 26 06:18:40 raster: yeah, but I hate apple more than most other propietary vendors ;-) Sep 26 06:18:48 hehe Sep 26 06:18:49 thats fine Sep 26 06:18:57 but just to have a fair basis to compare Sep 26 06:19:13 ie not just one product which frankly isnt comparable to freerunner Sep 26 06:19:26 the iphoen is signficanrtly more advanced in everything EXCEPT screen resolution/dpi Sep 26 06:19:32 add ipod too.. Sep 26 06:19:43 anyway, I have to go for breakfast Sep 26 06:20:34 i heard symbian is gonna be free too ( in one or 2 years ) Sep 26 06:21:44 "who cares" Sep 26 06:21:53 a free turd is still a turd Sep 26 06:22:36 which platform do you prefer ( even still unstable ) ? Sep 26 06:22:46 you know Maemo ? Sep 26 06:22:53 yes Sep 26 06:23:04 and what do u mean "platform" Sep 26 06:23:14 maemo is just linux plain and simple Sep 26 06:23:15 with x Sep 26 06:23:19 nothing special Sep 26 06:23:28 so i lump it in with "linux": Sep 26 06:23:58 linux + qtopia i consider separate as it has the "write everything using qt & c++ and it must be gpl or you have top pay us" Sep 26 06:24:10 i consider it a non-free system Sep 26 06:24:27 well u could just bypass qt and draw to the frameubuffer Sep 26 06:24:33 another question: in a country with GSM networks what technologies are available ? Sep 26 06:24:40 but thats not much of a "system" Sep 26 06:24:46 phone calls, sms, internet ? Sep 26 06:24:55 yes Sep 26 06:24:57 all 3 Sep 26 06:25:07 not many countries dont have gsm Sep 26 06:25:21 if u mean 3g gsm (ie utms etc.) Sep 26 06:25:26 all countries i know of have it Sep 26 06:25:27 even japan Sep 26 06:25:37 for 2g japan doesnt Sep 26 06:25:42 everywhere else i know does Sep 26 06:25:48 but if there is internet why don't they replace phone calls and sms by voIP and emails ? Sep 26 06:25:49 (everywhere major) Sep 26 06:25:59 because on 2g is slow Sep 26 06:26:10 gprs in practice gets u about 20kbit in real life Sep 26 06:26:16 40kbit in theory Sep 26 06:26:20 its got high latency Sep 26 06:26:24 and they charge u per kb Sep 26 06:26:28 at leats in .au they do Sep 26 06:26:32 least Sep 26 06:26:52 u end up paying about $0.001/kb Sep 26 06:26:56 (so about $1/mb) Sep 26 06:27:10 also the carriers tend to filter data Sep 26 06:27:16 to stop you from doing that Sep 26 06:27:26 mostly because their networks were not designed for it Sep 26 06:27:43 if everyone went and used voip instead of gsm voice calls their networks would collapse Sep 26 06:28:49 but what if the country doesn't have mobile telephony developed yet Sep 26 06:28:57 if they have to start from start Sep 26 06:29:05 why not go for all-over-ip Sep 26 06:29:22 hard for telcos to charge a premium for premium services Sep 26 06:29:31 eg charge more for international calls vs local Sep 26 06:29:32 etc. Sep 26 06:29:41 or more for sms vs voice Sep 26 06:29:51 yes i see your point Sep 26 06:29:54 (sms per byte is like 1000's time smore than voice) Sep 26 06:30:02 it's commercial reason Sep 26 06:31:02 but technically voIP costs more than classic voice communications or same ? Sep 26 06:31:21 costs more to who? Sep 26 06:31:36 network infrastructure hardware price Sep 26 06:31:46 fibers, relays, routers, antennas... Sep 26 06:31:47 hmmm Sep 26 06:31:56 its harder to provide quality of service Sep 26 06:32:07 as voip traffic is just more data traffic Sep 26 06:32:15 u cant really specially allocate space for it Sep 26 06:32:22 sure u can do traffic shaping Sep 26 06:32:44 but it is still harder than switched-connection-based telephony normal voice does Sep 26 06:32:52 (as best i know) Sep 26 06:33:08 ok thanks for the infos raster Sep 26 06:33:54 btw Sep 26 06:33:59 yep Sep 26 06:34:08 $50 phones... the problem is at that price almost none of us are interested anymore Sep 26 06:34:15 as the hardware is so minimal and not able to do much Sep 26 06:34:25 i know that i have zero interest Sep 26 06:34:39 u have low-res screens Sep 26 06:34:42 possibly no color Sep 26 06:34:48 slow cpu's and veyr little flash/ram Sep 26 06:35:11 it becomes a pretyt boring bit of hardware from a perspective of a devleoper who want to do new/better/more things Sep 26 06:35:16 not do less Sep 26 06:35:38 i see Sep 26 06:41:22 also from a manufacturers point of vide and develoeprs Sep 26 06:41:28 the margins on $50 phones are tiny Sep 26 06:41:37 software for open phones isnt free Sep 26 06:41:44 people get paid to creae it and work on it Sep 26 06:42:19 if u make $5/phone Sep 26 06:42:25 and u sell 1 million Sep 26 06:42:32 or u make $250/phone Sep 26 06:42:43 and sell 50,000 Sep 26 06:42:53 guess which one you would pick to do? Sep 26 06:42:54 :) Sep 26 06:48:14 and about infrastructure, i confused between GSM/CDMA and WiFi Sep 26 06:48:38 why keeping both ? Sep 26 06:49:49 cdma competed with gsm Sep 26 06:49:58 like apple vs pc's Sep 26 06:50:03 competition Sep 26 06:50:07 "why keep both" ? Sep 26 06:58:00 i mean what's the difference between GSM and CDMA and WiFi and Bluetooth ? One can build a telefony network from any of these ? Sep 26 06:58:23 i looked at Wikipedia but it's terribly complex Sep 26 06:58:30 too many standards on top of others Sep 26 06:58:43 i try to get the big picture Sep 26 06:59:39 if some company is going to invest in a developing country to develop mobile communications from start ( no network in place ) Sep 26 07:00:06 why would they care about old technos like GSM/CDMA if there is WiFi Sep 26 07:00:08 ? Sep 26 07:06:35 sorry Sep 26 07:06:39 was fixing oe packages Sep 26 07:06:40 ummm Sep 26 07:07:46 bluetooth is very short range Sep 26 07:07:53 its basically replacement for IRDA Sep 26 07:08:02 only 3 or 4m range Sep 26 07:08:08 entirely meant to be personal Sep 26 07:08:12 wifi is also short range Sep 26 07:08:19 intended for "high speed network around the house Sep 26 07:08:26 gsm andcdma are much longer range Sep 26 07:09:02 oh i see thank you Sep 26 07:09:23 100's of meters Sep 26 07:09:30 if not a km or so Sep 26 07:09:33 not sure exactly Sep 26 07:09:42 also designed for different things Sep 26 07:10:00 gsm for example can be much lower power than wifi due to the nature of how it works Sep 26 07:11:33 i care about TCP/IP that's why i was asking Sep 26 07:11:51 also gsm just has a massive installed base of coverage Sep 26 07:11:53 wifi does not Sep 26 07:11:56 but if you say we can have TCP/IP with GSM/CDMA networks Sep 26 07:12:08 gsm and protocols allow u to seamlessly roam from one cell/tower to the next Sep 26 07:12:14 without a dropped call or data session Sep 26 07:12:19 wifi on the other hand... good luck Sep 26 07:12:28 yes u can Sep 26 07:12:33 wifi can't but WiBro does Sep 26 07:12:36 gsm supported data sessions ever since 1.0 Sep 26 07:12:42 9600baud only Sep 26 07:12:45 or was it 14.4k Sep 26 07:12:47 anyway Sep 26 07:12:54 a data session can be opened up to another phone Sep 26 07:13:11 so to get ip do ppp over a gsm data session to the telco's own equiment Sep 26 07:13:15 much like dialup Sep 26 07:13:20 but it never is "analogue" Sep 26 07:13:22 always digital Sep 26 07:13:48 and grps just icnreases the bandwidth by bonding several gtsm channels togehter Sep 26 07:13:51 edge does that too Sep 26 07:13:54 (its 2g) Sep 26 07:14:05 then comes umts (3g) and up (hsdpa, hsupa etc.) Sep 26 07:14:10 and those go up to 7mbit Sep 26 07:14:24 (if your telco supports it) Sep 26 07:14:27 korea plans to cover their whole country with WiBro ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WiBro ) Sep 26 07:14:41 whihc is pretty good considering u get that long-range over mahy cells and wil work while u drive down the road Sep 26 07:14:49 korea is tiny though Sep 26 07:21:02 raster: many thanks you help me a lot :D Sep 26 07:21:08 :) Sep 26 07:36:22 does anyone know how to power-down wifi ? is it sufficient to just ifdown eth ? Sep 26 07:43:08 FilipLinux4BE: ifconfig eth* down Sep 26 07:43:30 or "ip link set eth0 down" Sep 26 07:46:18 of, and that efectively turns down the wifi radio ? (so it no longer uses power) Sep 26 07:46:23 of=ok Sep 26 07:53:44 or do i need to do some additional trick (like for bluetooth, echo 0 > /sys/bus/platform/devices/neo1973-pm-bt.0/power_on ) Sep 26 08:05:38 Hey Sep 26 08:05:55 Ainulindale, do you want to know what the cause was? Sep 26 09:47:40 qtopia is only "non free" if you think not allowing proprietary code is bad Sep 26 09:48:51 as well, if you are trying to make money at your proprietary code, then its hypocritical to think that paying for a license is bad Sep 26 09:48:59 its non-free in "i cant choose the license for my application" Sep 26 09:49:00 :) Sep 26 09:49:12 nothgn to do with money Sep 26 09:49:15 just the principle Sep 26 09:49:22 like most "free software" stuff is Sep 26 09:49:25 its all about the principle Sep 26 09:49:26 :) Sep 26 09:49:36 if iw ant to use mit-x11 or bsd license.. i shoul dbe able to Sep 26 09:49:39 for my code Sep 26 09:49:48 but i know i'll never convince you Sep 26 09:49:49 :) Sep 26 09:49:55 then, really there is only one license for you and thats BSD, which , INHO not really a free license as it removes rights from the user Sep 26 09:50:12 wel mit-x11 Sep 26 09:50:13 zlib Sep 26 09:50:14 :) Sep 26 09:50:20 a tonn eof license in that vein Sep 26 09:50:21 :) Sep 26 09:50:38 but - i respect your choice of gpl Sep 26 09:50:45 and so... i choose not to use qt :) Sep 26 09:51:06 freeloader Sep 26 09:51:18 :) Sep 26 09:51:37 not sure i can be called that :) Sep 26 09:51:39 you choose not to use Qt cause its not written in C Sep 26 09:51:49 as i tend to public librarires under the same license as apps Sep 26 09:51:55 publish Sep 26 09:52:01 so i eat my own dogfood Sep 26 09:52:18 i give away libs and their apis to use under the same conditions i want. Sep 26 09:52:26 so i'm being fair and giving back too Sep 26 09:52:29 and yeah Sep 26 09:52:31 its not in c Sep 26 09:52:44 reason b. Sep 26 09:52:44 :) Sep 26 09:52:53 now Sep 26 09:53:24 how the fuck do i, from oe, just "build" a set of pakcages, sources and wel lans images easily for a given image... Sep 26 09:54:02 i couldnt tell you, I stopped tryng to use oe for anything Sep 26 09:54:25 hahahaha Sep 26 09:54:26 I've been happier ever since Sep 26 09:54:29 i mean Sep 26 09:54:35 bitbake illume-image ... is nice Sep 26 09:54:44 out pops my jffs2, ext2, etc. files Sep 26 09:55:27 but i'd like to pop out a tarball of all the sources and of all the individual .ipk's that make up that image... Sep 26 09:55:32 that'd be... good... Sep 26 09:56:13 bitbake magicstuffcomeflyingout Sep 26 09:56:28 :-) Sep 26 09:56:33 hahahaha Sep 26 09:56:49 i had to fuck with oe's build a lot Sep 26 09:56:51 i hope we get newer E to debian soon so that illume can be packaged Sep 26 09:56:56 ttf building was broken Sep 26 09:56:58 fixed that now Sep 26 09:57:12 and i fixed up my personal oe setup to be able to easiuly build for multipl targets Sep 26 09:57:40 lindi-: i did a snapshot releas yesterday Sep 26 09:57:43 its up to debian guys Sep 26 09:57:49 frankly they should just use svn Sep 26 09:57:54 as thats so much easier Sep 26 09:57:58 saves me a chunk of work! Sep 26 09:58:07 raster: yep Sep 26 09:58:09 and it should be about the same work for them Sep 26 09:58:30 (snarf a given svnrev instead of download a specirfic tarball) Sep 26 09:58:46 raster: it'd be of course cleaner if E people could release some development snapshot that should work Sep 26 09:59:19 http://www.enlightenment.org/ Sep 26 09:59:22 raster: but maybe they can find some git tag that is not in the middle of some large refactoring Sep 26 09:59:24 u guys dont read news... Sep 26 09:59:36 oh Sep 26 09:59:39 very recent Sep 26 09:59:42 http://download.enlightenment.org/snapshots/LATEST/ Sep 26 09:59:46 always points to the latest snap Sep 26 09:59:48 whenever i do one Sep 26 09:59:54 quickdev: of course I want to Sep 26 09:59:56 ah so you develop E too? Sep 26 09:59:58 http://download.enlightenment.org/snapshots/ Sep 26 10:00:00 as u can see Sep 26 10:00:05 we arent that lazy about snaps Sep 26 10:00:10 they do happen... Sep 26 10:00:17 yes Sep 26 10:00:21 i did the snap yesterday Sep 26 10:00:22 :) Sep 26 10:00:30 Ainulindale, I changed the marshall type from UINT to INT and it worked Sep 26 10:00:34 i tend to have my finger in many pies Sep 26 10:00:40 speaking of pies Sep 26 10:00:46 has anyone got a treo650? Sep 26 10:00:48 Ainulindale, do I have to add a marshaller for every signal type? Sep 26 10:00:48 i fixed a lot of bugs yesterday, maybe today after work i could look into packaking uboot, kernel and glamo and then just maybe E too Sep 26 10:00:52 (and got linux up on it?) Sep 26 10:01:27 lindi-: btw. debina is way too fat. Sep 26 10:01:31 way too fat Sep 26 10:01:37 (for freerunner etc.) Sep 26 10:01:55 the e+illume images i'm building with 4 test apps in it (gtk and efl ones) are only 39m Sep 26 10:02:07 debian needs some real trimming action Sep 26 10:03:16 raster: yeah but that can be done later :) Sep 26 10:03:29 raster: i really like to have the benefit of being able to use the same apps Sep 26 10:03:55 raster: since we are only doing packaking here the work is not duplicated. bugs will be fixed together with upstream Sep 26 10:09:26 raster: but of course i have to admit that i use debian also because i understand it better, i haven't really got any experience in bitbake Sep 26 10:11:23 * lpotter thinks oe needs to go back to using Makefiles Sep 26 10:13:10 lindi-: i can understand that. oe has taken a lot of learning your way around Sep 26 10:13:11 i now do... Sep 26 10:13:19 Ainulindale, do you know if I have to add a marshaller for every signal type? Sep 26 10:13:20 in fact i should eventually publish my oe setup Sep 26 10:13:26 its different to mokomakefile Sep 26 10:13:29 but more flexible i think Sep 26 10:13:39 it smore like raw oe/bitbake Sep 26 10:13:45 withotu wrappign everything bitbake does Sep 26 10:13:53 but the initial setup etc. is mroe streamlines Sep 26 10:13:57 streamlined Sep 26 10:16:20 * raster is currently building illume-image for his zaurus c860 Sep 26 10:16:29 and u know... i thought the imageon was crappy... Sep 26 10:16:36 but i was wrong Sep 26 10:16:47 there are worse chips... Sep 26 10:16:48 :) Sep 26 10:18:34 raster: some tutorial might be useful Sep 26 10:19:16 i know bitbake.berlios.de/ has a manual but still some hands-on tutorials for openmoko might be good (maybe even with video :P) Sep 26 10:19:51 yeah Sep 26 10:19:59 actually just barrier of entry is bad Sep 26 10:20:08 mokomakfile is so popular due to lowering that barrier Sep 26 10:20:32 raster: still people don't know how they can for example recompile only one package with it Sep 26 10:22:23 bitbake -c rebuild package-name Sep 26 10:33:39 thats after you write a cryptic .bb file Sep 26 10:36:48 actually Sep 26 10:36:57 i've cut down .bb's to incredibly simple things Sep 26 10:37:03 but thats because i am buildign off classes Sep 26 10:37:08 that do all of it Sep 26 10:37:15 and pretty much all my stuff is hyper-consistent Sep 26 10:37:23 so since there are entire e.classes Sep 26 10:37:28 and efl.class's Sep 26 10:37:38 its just a really small boilerplate file Sep 26 10:37:47 coyp existing .bb - change name. done Sep 26 10:40:47 quickdev: you don't have if the type is standard Sep 26 10:41:00 there's some documentation on that Sep 26 11:10:13 Ainulindale, should I use the org.freesmartphone.Phone.Call API instead of the gsm api? Sep 26 11:14:40 I don't know if it has been implemented Sep 26 11:15:30 frameworkd source surely talks about it Sep 26 11:16:15 If you are planning on a dialer that could support VoIP calls, then feel free to use the Phone.Call API for the non-GSM-Specific things Sep 26 11:16:18 quickdev: for my part, I don't care, use what you want, as long as if you use phone.call you implement the calls in lfg Sep 26 11:18:27 mickey|tw, sim_unlock() returns an invalidIndex error. Is that possible? Sep 26 11:19:31 offhand, i'd say no Sep 26 11:19:44 you mean unlock as in unlock(PUK,new_pin)? Sep 26 11:19:50 can you give me the AT log? Sep 26 11:20:49 yes, that's what I meant Sep 26 11:21:14 I'll give you the ogsmd debug log, but not now :) Sep 26 11:22:00 freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * ra021eb82e985 10/ (3 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed) Sep 26 11:22:00 freesmartphone.org: tasklet: Modifications to the tasklet module Sep 26 11:22:00 freesmartphone.org: * added the tasklet decorator Sep 26 11:22:00 freesmartphone.org: * generator function need to be explicitely specified as a keyword argument in Tasklet.__init__ Sep 26 11:22:04 freesmartphone.org: * added Tasklet.start_dbus method, that connect to dbus compliant callback methods Sep 26 11:22:07 freesmartphone.org: * added the WaitFunc tasklet (useful to connect a tasklet to a function that take callback arguments) Sep 26 11:22:10 freesmartphone.org: * added the Sleep tasklet (useful for testing) Sep 26 11:22:12 freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r44c22c845d6c 10/framework/ (3 files in 3 dirs): ousaged: Enable and Disable are now asynchronous, using tasklet module to make things simpler. Sep 26 11:22:15 freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * rb5c541af8694 10/tests/ousaged.py: tests: updated ousaged test suite Sep 26 11:22:42 ok Sep 26 11:29:28 mickey|tw: hi, two other people have confirmed that CBHZ=0 helps voice quality for them Sep 26 11:30:50 hmm Sep 26 11:31:07 i don't particular enjoy hearing that Sep 26 11:32:15 mickey|tw: i can't explain why it does that either but it does Sep 26 11:32:23 lindi-: Can you provide DeviceInfo together with that? Sep 26 11:32:36 Maybe it's firmware dependent Sep 26 11:32:43 alphaone: DeviceInfo Sep 26 11:32:48 alphaone: moko8 here Sep 26 11:32:56 alphaone: meant "DeviceInfo?" Sep 26 11:33:38 I was refering to the dbus method that returns the firmware version string, yeah Sep 26 11:33:39 Ainulindale, here? Sep 26 11:35:28 Yep Sep 26 11:36:31 Ainulindale, how can my dialer know if a call was quit at the other end of the line? Do I have to register the call status handler? Sep 26 11:36:57 What do you mean by dialer ? Sep 26 11:37:03 The pad thing or the software ? Sep 26 11:37:13 (handling the "talking" screen) Sep 26 11:37:21 Ainulindale, my dialer software, handling the talking scren Sep 26 11:37:26 Anyway, you'll have of course to register a call status handler Sep 26 11:37:40 then watch for the hang up signal of your specific call Sep 26 11:37:50 keep in mind you can have several calls at the same time Sep 26 11:37:51 compare the call id's, yes, ok Sep 26 11:39:57 Ainulindale, ophonekitd currently handles the dbus handler registration. Do I have to add a callback for my dialer in order to notifiy him about a released call? Sep 26 11:40:57 Errr ? Sep 26 11:41:18 ophonekitd will register the handler you give Sep 26 11:41:20 nothing more Sep 26 11:41:26 Ainulindale, s/ophonekitd/openmoko-dialer3/ Sep 26 11:41:37 Wait Sep 26 11:41:47 Let's talk about that more clearly Sep 26 11:41:51 yes Sep 26 11:41:58 ophonekitd should listen to calls Sep 26 11:42:01 Especially call status Sep 26 11:42:13 In case of incoming call, it should display the UI Sep 26 11:42:30 In case of hang up call, it should check the UI is closed or close it Sep 26 11:42:45 yes, so far right for incoming calls. Sep 26 11:42:55 So the real listener is ophonekitd Sep 26 11:42:56 I meant the dialer and outgoing calls Sep 26 11:43:12 But as ophonekitd merely calls a method in your dialer library Sep 26 11:43:18 this method is more or less a& signal Sep 26 11:43:25 s/&// Sep 26 11:44:10 let's consider outgoing calls without any interaction with ophonekitd Sep 26 11:44:32 Unfortunately you're wrong Sep 26 11:44:36 There's interaction Sep 26 11:44:49 tell me :) Sep 26 11:44:50 The reason is that the way we chose to do it Sep 26 11:44:55 The dialer merely call initiate and exits Sep 26 11:45:05 ah :) Sep 26 11:45:09 And the logic of incoming/outgoing in ophonekitd follows Sep 26 11:45:11 that way you're thinking Sep 26 11:45:17 ophonekitd receives a signal, then calls the UI Sep 26 11:45:22 that way we only do one implementation Sep 26 11:45:30 And furthermore Sep 26 11:45:38 what's the need of a dialer resident in memory ? Sep 26 11:45:42 with contacts, and so on ? Sep 26 11:46:26 I didn't thought about your solution, but it's fine Sep 26 11:46:35 *think Sep 26 11:46:40 If you have a better one I'm all ears :-) Sep 26 11:46:55 If you want to build a more imperative solution Sep 26 11:47:01 You should get rid of ophonekitd Sep 26 11:47:01 so ophonekitd handles: incoming call, outgoing call and sim auth Sep 26 11:47:03 lfg has no logic Sep 26 11:47:08 ophonekitd has one Sep 26 11:47:10 and the dialer calls and exits Sep 26 11:47:15 ophonekitd handles all events Sep 26 11:47:29 events = signals Sep 26 11:47:38 I should get rid of ophonekitd? :) Sep 26 11:48:00 If you don't like its logic :-) Sep 26 11:48:21 I asumed that ophonekitd should be the center of treatment for non user initiated events Sep 26 11:48:30 i.e. signals Sep 26 11:48:40 If that assumption looks wrong for you Sep 26 11:48:48 Either you convince me or implement another daemon :-) Sep 26 11:49:08 no, I like your solution :) Sep 26 11:49:18