**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Oct 29 02:59:57 2008
Oct 29 03:09:23 <CIA-12> freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r93ac25e0ca1b 10/framework/subsystems/oeventsd/parser.py: 
Oct 29 03:09:23 <CIA-12> freesmartphone.org: oeventsd: Abort rule creation if there is a parsing error
Oct 29 03:09:23 <CIA-12> freesmartphone.org: Before this, if a function call in the rule file fails, then the value returned by the function is None.
Oct 29 03:09:24 <CIA-12> freesmartphone.org: Instead we raise an exception, and let the parser aborts the rule (with big error message)
Oct 29 03:09:27 <CIA-12> freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * r1204c7b443cd 10/framework/subsystems/oeventsd/oevents.py: oeventsd: added RemoveRule DBus method
Oct 29 03:10:44 <CIA-12> freesmartphone.org: 03charlie 07framework * rb1de70790833 10/tests/ (oevents.py test.py): tests: added oevents tests
Oct 29 06:14:36 <quickdev> Hey
Oct 29 06:37:11 <quickdev> alphaone, here that early? :)
Oct 29 08:27:50 <trupheenix> i want to know which is better matchbox or illume?
Oct 29 08:28:04 <trupheenix> better= lightweight and efficient
Oct 29 08:29:48 <lindi-> trupheenix: i use icewm
Oct 29 08:30:31 <lindi-> trupheenix: takes 4M ram with default config in debian
Oct 29 08:31:13 <trupheenix> lindi-: :) like all roads lead to rome, all my questions lead to debian :)
Oct 29 08:32:01 <lindi-> debian has special 'icewm-lite' package too if you really want to save memory
Oct 29 08:32:35 <trupheenix> lindi-: nice :)
Oct 29 08:32:57 <trupheenix> lindi-: as we speak i'm trying to build debian for arm on my system and then make a jffs2 image
Oct 29 08:33:08 <lindi-> trupheenix: why?
Oct 29 08:33:10 <trupheenix> and finally flash it to my freerunner
Oct 29 08:33:21 <trupheenix> lindi-: because i don't like the debian installer, it's a pain...
Oct 29 08:34:08 <lindi-> trupheenix: you can run it on your PC
Oct 29 08:34:19 <lindi-> trupheenix: and then netcat the tarball
Oct 29 08:34:55 <trupheenix> lindi-: ok... i didn't know about that
Oct 29 08:35:12 <lindi-> it has lots of checks and all but the basic functionality is very simple
Oct 29 08:35:17 <trupheenix> lindi-: also i want to use debian from my flash instead of the SD card
Oct 29 08:35:31 <lindi-> trupheenix: why do you want to use it from flash?
Oct 29 08:36:41 <trupheenix> lindi-: because i  want it as a permanent replacement
Oct 29 08:36:51 <lindi-> trupheenix: you can use SD for that
Oct 29 08:37:16 <trupheenix> lindi-: i want to use the SD for storing my personal data
Oct 29 08:37:23 <lindi-> trupheenix: you can store both there
Oct 29 08:37:35 <lindi-> :)
Oct 29 08:37:45 <trupheenix> lindi-: sd card is slow
Oct 29 08:37:46 <lindi-> trupheenix: or do you want to be able to remove it constantly?
Oct 29 08:37:51 <trupheenix> lindi-: i don't like it
Oct 29 08:37:52 <lindi-> trupheenix: really?
Oct 29 08:38:00 <trupheenix> lindi-: yes i also want to be able to remove it
Oct 29 08:38:33 <CIA-12> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis * r311 10/trunk/python-elementary/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Fix segfault bug
Oct 29 08:38:47 <lindi-> i get 2.79MB/s from SD and 3.16 from nand
Oct 29 08:39:53 <lindi-> trupheenix: ok then. read what the installer does and adapt it
Oct 29 08:40:54 <lindi-> trupheenix: it's basically just 'debootstrap --foreign --arch armel unstable /target'
Oct 29 08:41:15 <trupheenix> lindi-: ok... :)
Oct 29 08:41:22 <lindi-> trupheenix: and tada, debian has been installed to directory /target
Oct 29 08:41:41 <trupheenix> lindi-: ok :)
Oct 29 08:44:00 <lindi-> trupheenix: just installed debian with it. only took 57 seconds
Oct 29 08:44:18 <lindi-> trupheenix: 'time sudo debootstrap --foreign --arch armel sid test http://apt-proxy.kurp.hut.fi:9999/debian' was the exact command and i ran it on debian unstable chroot on a PC
Oct 29 08:44:49 <trupheenix> lindi-: ok let me try
Oct 29 08:45:11 <trupheenix> lind-: i'm actually taking a more crude approach where i'm building the entire system from source instead of using debbootstrap
Oct 29 08:45:23 <lindi-> trupheenix: you don't want to run that same command really. install.sh actually uses cdebootstrap that supports --flavour=minimal or something that you might want with your 256M flash
Oct 29 08:45:40 <lindi-> trupheenix: from source?
Oct 29 08:46:53 <trupheenix> lindi-: yes from source
Oct 29 08:47:09 <lindi-> trupheenix: apt-get --build source $package?
Oct 29 08:47:12 <trupheenix> lindi-: but i realise that debian kinda automates everything
Oct 29 08:47:20 <trupheenix> lindi-: no make make install way
Oct 29 08:47:27 <lindi-> trupheenix: huh, that has nothing to do with debian then
Oct 29 08:47:37 <lindi-> no make uninstall :)
Oct 29 08:48:44 <trupheenix> lindi-: well... 
Oct 29 08:48:59 <CIA-12> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis * r312 10/trunk/python-elementary/ (elementary.pyx tests/test01.py): Added some more widgets
Oct 29 10:01:15 <Nobody96> moin
Oct 29 10:03:22 <alphaone> Ainulindale: huh?
Oct 29 10:07:36 <Nobody96> @the developers of openmoko-dialer3: nice work :)
Oct 29 11:07:55 <alphaone> mickey|bbl: ping
Oct 29 11:29:26 <Hire1> mickeyl, alphaone pings you
Oct 29 11:29:39 <alphaone> heh
Oct 29 11:36:53 <mickeyl> pöng
Oct 29 11:37:00 <mickeyl> thanks Hire1 
Oct 29 11:37:36 <alphaone> mickeyl: http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/205
Oct 29 11:39:08 <CIA-12> freesmartphone.org: 03sudharsh 07openmoko-gsoc2008 * r911d22812b55 10/fsod/src/ (12 files in 11 dirs): 
Oct 29 11:39:08 <CIA-12> freesmartphone.org: 1.) DBus.Connection no longer static.
Oct 29 11:39:08 <CIA-12> freesmartphone.org: 2.) Plugin class of Device subsystem takes in an additional DBus connection object
Oct 29 11:39:08 <CIA-12> freesmartphone.org: 3.) Refactor all subsequent code in the device plugins. Registering dbus objects now a lot cleaner
Oct 29 11:39:20 <kd8ikt> whynot use finger instead of ping?
Oct 29 11:39:33 <kd8ikt> sound to... *dirty*?
Oct 29 11:39:37 <mickeyl> *sigh* 
Oct 29 11:39:44 <kd8ikt> too*
Oct 29 11:39:49 <mickeyl> if we can't get that new oeventsd stable
Oct 29 11:39:54 * alphaone whispers state machine
Oct 29 11:39:55 <mickeyl> i'll revert it to the one we had before Taipei
Oct 29 11:40:10 <alphaone> Though I'm not sure that would be the solution in this case
Oct 29 11:40:25 <mickeyl> i'm not concentrated enough to look into the log
Oct 29 11:40:26 <alphaone> Depends on how you implement it
Oct 29 11:40:28 <mickeyl> will do later today though
Oct 29 11:40:37 <Sup3rkiddo> alphaone, mickeyl, g'day
Oct 29 11:40:42 <mickeyl> hi Sup3rkiddo 
Oct 29 11:40:45 <alphaone> mickeyl: I'm pretty sure this race condition existed even back then
Oct 29 11:40:50 <alphaone> Hi SUNWjoejaxx 
Oct 29 11:40:55 <alphaone> errr, Sup3rkiddo 
Oct 29 11:41:03 <mickeyl> alphaone: well
Oct 29 11:41:12 <mickeyl> it's definitely not PlaySound's fault
Oct 29 11:41:16 <kd8ikt> the blacks the whites and the yellows fighting again?
Oct 29 11:41:18 <mickeyl> audio is pretty smart
Oct 29 11:41:19 <alphaone> mickeyl: Only nobody's really tested it until now
Oct 29 11:41:26 <mickeyl> it puts requests into a queue
Oct 29 11:41:33 <mickeyl> so it can go back to mainloop asap
Oct 29 11:41:41 <mickeyl> and then processes the requests from within the mainloop
Oct 29 11:41:43 <alphaone> mickeyl: Well, playsound is being called after stopsound already has
Oct 29 11:42:06 <mickeyl> i'll have a look
Oct 29 11:42:36 <alphaone> and why the hell are the leds broken?
Oct 29 11:42:38 <pb__> mickeyl: can you recommend a good u-boot for me to install?
Oct 29 11:43:03 <mickeyl> pb__: let me build the latest for 01, test it on my device, and then I'll get back to you
Oct 29 11:43:22 <pb__> thanks
Oct 29 11:43:28 <mickeyl> pb__: can you cat /proc/cpuinfo for me?
Oct 29 11:43:29 <pb__> fwiw, I currently have U-Boot 1.2.0-moko8_r5_9877d7dcd1eebe61aa5d8b8ffe9c048ea426e6f6_0_1910 (May  5 2007 - 04:22:55)
Oct 29 11:43:35 <mickeyl> (need to know which revision you have)
Oct 29 11:43:36 <pb__> sure, let me boot it up into linux
Oct 29 11:43:48 <mickeyl> ooh, that one is ancient :)
Oct 29 11:43:51 <pb__> heh
Oct 29 11:43:55 <mickeyl> you have a debug board?
Oct 29 11:44:01 <pb__> no, do I need one?
Oct 29 11:44:05 <mickeyl> only if you brick it
Oct 29 11:44:12 <mickeyl> if you want one, send me your snailmail address
Oct 29 11:44:13 <mickeyl> i have some spare
Oct 29 11:44:15 <pb__> ah, heh
Oct 29 11:44:19 <alphaone> mickeyl: charlie said that follow_name_owner_changes doesn't work with our version of dbus
Oct 29 11:44:32 <mickeyl> alphaone: cli-framework seems to use it
Oct 29 11:44:36 <pb__> what does the debug board actually do?
Oct 29 11:44:36 <alphaone> which is why the setleds rules don't complete
Oct 29 11:44:50 <mickeyl> pb__: gives you jtag and serial access over USB
Oct 29 11:44:56 <pb__> ah right, cool
Oct 29 11:45:01 <pb__> yes, that would be handy
Oct 29 11:45:05 <pb__> I'll email you my address
Oct 29 11:45:09 <mickeyl> alphaone: well, that worked once, didn't it?
Oct 29 11:45:12 <mickeyl> pb__: k
Oct 29 11:45:14 <pb__> now, /proc/cpuinfo says:
Oct 29 11:45:16 <pb__> Hardware	: GTA01
Oct 29 11:45:16 <pb__> Revision	: 0240
Oct 29 11:45:16 <kd8ikt> *cough* NOR *cough*
Oct 29 11:45:17 <mickeyl> alphaone: so is it a regression?
Oct 29 11:45:26 <alphaone> mickeyl: on get_object, not with Interface
Oct 29 11:45:27 <mickeyl> pb__: ok, good. gta01Bv4.
Oct 29 11:45:44 <kd8ikt> freerunner=unbrickable
Oct 29 11:45:54 <mickeyl> kd8ikt: we're talking about the neo1973 here
Oct 29 11:45:57 <mickeyl> now where did i bury this 01
Oct 29 11:45:59 * mickeyl searching
Oct 29 11:46:02 <pb__> kd8ikt: that's nice to know, but irrelevant to me :-}
Oct 29 11:46:25 <kd8ikt> didnt all 1973's come with dboards?
Oct 29 11:46:35 <alphaone> mickeyl: I'll change that and see if that fixes the leds
Oct 29 11:46:36 <pb__> apparently not.  I'm pretty sure I never had one
Oct 29 11:47:00 <pb__> not that I exactly know what it looks like, but I don't think I got any unidentifiable pcbs with the neo
Oct 29 11:47:21 <mickeyl> no, they were accessories
Oct 29 11:47:27 <pb__> mickeyl: by the way, initial benchmark numbers indicate that busybox, at least, is faster in thumb mode than arm.  so, yay.
Oct 29 11:47:39 <pb__> I need to figure out a way of benchmarking python now
Oct 29 11:48:51 <rwhitby> kd8ikt: most P0 1973's for developers came with debug boards
Oct 29 11:49:11 <kd8ikt> does fork(fopen $file echo $number+1) count as a benchmark
Oct 29 11:49:17 <kd8ikt> lol
Oct 29 11:49:19 <mickeyl> pb__: wow.
Oct 29 11:49:21 <mickeyl> pb__: can you do a pystone?
Oct 29 11:50:05 <pb__> sure, I can try.  is pystone included in the packages or do I need to download it from somewhere?
Oct 29 11:50:10 <mickeyl> let me check
Oct 29 11:50:13 <alphaone> shoragan: FYI with pickle it's now much faster. ogsmd needs 0.7 seconds to start/stop
Oct 29 11:50:25 <shoragan> good
Oct 29 11:51:12 <mickeyl> pb__: http://people.openmoko.org/mickey/bootloader/ contains an u-boot for your device that I have just successfully flashed on my 01
Oct 29 11:51:25 <alphaone> mickeyl: Could we please make sure the gsm modem ist off if the resource is disabled?
Oct 29 11:51:36 <alphaone> And it's turned on if we enable it?
Oct 29 11:51:46 <mickeyl> alphaone: mmh yeah
Oct 29 11:51:49 <mickeyl> that's on my lis
Oct 29 11:51:50 <mickeyl> t
Oct 29 11:51:50 <alphaone> I have nothing against a default policy of "on"
Oct 29 11:51:57 <mickeyl> no no, i'm in favour of off
Oct 29 11:52:02 <mickeyl> it just needs tinkering with gsm0710muxd
Oct 29 11:52:05 <alphaone> But this just leads to all sorts of crap
Oct 29 11:52:06 <mickeyl> which i have tried to avoid
Oct 29 11:52:09 <mickeyl> agreed
Oct 29 11:52:13 <alphaone> okay, cool
Oct 29 11:52:38 * alphaone is now kind of dependent on his Neo working well
Oct 29 11:52:40 <alphaone> all the time
Oct 29 11:52:42 <mickeyl> pb__: http://linuxtogo.org/~mickeyl/misc/pystone.py should be it
Oct 29 11:52:52 <mickeyl> alphaone: that's brilliant, really
Oct 29 11:52:59 <mickeyl> i'm using it more and more here as well
Oct 29 11:53:06 <mickeyl> need to do some UI tweaks to keep me happy
Oct 29 11:53:08 <alphaone> Yeah
Oct 29 11:53:21 <kd8ikt> cant the glamo be reverse engineered like shaving layers off and filming them
Oct 29 11:53:22 <pb__> mickeyl: thanks.  do I just flash it with dfu-util like normal?
Oct 29 11:53:25 <alphaone> stefan_schmidt: Will test drive it for the next week at least
Oct 29 11:53:27 <mickeyl> pb__: yes. that would be
Oct 29 11:53:32 <mickeyl> dfu-util -a u-boot -R -D ./<filename>
Oct 29 11:53:35 <alphaone> s/://
Oct 29 11:53:39 <pb__> ok.  I'll run the pystone first in case of disaster :-}
Oct 29 11:53:47 <mickeyl> hehe
Oct 29 11:53:48 * stefan_schmidt comes to see what people are talking about him
Oct 29 11:53:49 <mickeyl> good plan
Oct 29 11:54:03 <stefan_schmidt> yeah, just put in my daily SIM card
Oct 29 11:54:22 <alphaone> finally, leds are working again
Oct 29 11:54:25 <mickeyl> k8even if you could reverse engineer the glamo you would be unhappy about its performance
Oct 29 11:54:27 <mickeyl> alphaone: congrats
Oct 29 11:54:36 <alphaone> Now let me check who introduced this change :-)
Oct 29 11:55:06 <kd8ikt> WDT
Oct 29 11:55:16 <kd8ikt> (who did this/that)
Oct 29 11:55:42 <kd8ikt> almost always synonymous with WTF
Oct 29 11:55:50 <mickeyl> hehe
Oct 29 11:56:12 <alphaone> that's what git blame is for :-)
Oct 29 11:56:18 * mickeyl scared
Oct 29 11:56:21 <stefan_schmidt> hmm, building the rootfs failed because of the missing gst-plugin-mad
Oct 29 11:56:31 <mickeyl> yeah
Oct 29 11:56:35 <stefan_schmidt> Due to zecke's change that is now disabled for distro OM
Oct 29 11:56:36 <mickeyl> guess zecke removed it
Oct 29 11:56:50 <mickeyl> forces us into ogg
Oct 29 11:56:52 <stefan_schmidt> OE_CONF --disable-mad
Oct 29 11:56:55 <alphaone> Strange, it came with the resource system workaround commit, mickey, but didn't really seem related..
Oct 29 11:57:02 <mickeyl> alphaone: *phew* ;)
Oct 29 11:57:08 <stefan_schmidt> EXTRA_OECONF_append_openmoko = "--disable-mad"
Oct 29 11:57:10 <stefan_schmidt> that is
Oct 29 11:57:14 <mickeyl> mmh
Oct 29 11:57:19 <alphaone> mickeyl: Well, you commited it :-)
Oct 29 11:57:33 <mickeyl> alphaone: right. mea culpa
Oct 29 11:57:36 <stefan_schmidt> commenting out all gst stuff in fso-image.bb gave me at least an image again
Oct 29 11:57:37 <alphaone> It just seemed unrelated to the rest of the commit
Oct 29 11:57:47 <mickeyl> alphaone: can you show me the offending hunk?
Oct 29 11:57:48 <alphaone> maybe git ci -a?
Oct 29 11:57:51 <pb__> mickeyl: could you run pystone on your gta01 for comparison?  it would be moderately inconvenient for me to reinstall the arm version to test against.
Oct 29 11:57:52 <stefan_schmidt> after two or three days of breakage
Oct 29 11:57:56 * alphaone hates that option
Oct 29 11:58:06 <mickeyl> pb__: sure thing, give me a second
Oct 29 11:58:14 <alphaone> mickeyl: just run  git show 6e5f822f
Oct 29 11:58:14 <pb__> mickeyl: thanks
Oct 29 11:59:41 <pb__> mickeyl: I seem to get 1043.19 pystones/second fairly consistently with my thumb build
Oct 29 11:59:46 <pb__> no idea if that is good, bad or awful :-}
Oct 29 11:59:56 <mickeyl> wow!
Oct 29 12:00:04 <mickeyl> root@om-gta01:/var/volatile/tmp# python pystone.py
Oct 29 12:00:04 <mickeyl> Pystone(1.1) time for 50000 passes = 52.38
Oct 29 12:00:04 <mickeyl> This machine benchmarks at 954.563 pystones/second
Oct 29 12:00:17 <pb__> ah, I win :-)
Oct 29 12:00:18 <pb__> heh
Oct 29 12:00:20 <mickeyl> yeah
Oct 29 12:00:29 <mickeyl> i think that's not bad
Oct 29 12:00:31 <mickeyl> 5%
Oct 29 12:01:05 <mickeyl> my core duo does 73529.4
Oct 29 12:01:09 <pb__> heh
Oct 29 12:01:42 <mickeyl> i'm glad for every percentage of speedup, so... thanks a lot! Can you post a quick summary and a how-to-enable to the list, please?
Oct 29 12:01:59 <pb__> sure.  which list is that?
Oct 29 12:02:09 <pb__> I'm not actually subscribed to any openmoko lists at the moment, guess I should.
Oct 29 12:02:22 <mickeyl> oh i think the oe-list will be fine
Oct 29 12:02:29 <pb__> okay, will do
Oct 29 12:02:31 <mickeyl> i'll forward to the om-devel list then
Oct 29 12:02:33 <mickeyl> thanks
Oct 29 12:02:50 <mickeyl> do you think this will apply to all armv4t devices?
Oct 29 12:02:57 <mickeyl> or are there more things to consider?
Oct 29 12:03:29 <pb__> I think it should apply to more or less all armv4t.
Oct 29 12:03:37 <mickeyl> pretty cool
Oct 29 12:03:51 <mickeyl> (not that we have that much of armv4t still being used ;)
Oct 29 12:03:58 <pb__> heh, indeed
Oct 29 12:04:07 <pb__> I'll see if I can run a similar benchmark on one of our v5te machines later
Oct 29 12:04:14 <mickeyl> yeah, that'd be interesting
Oct 29 12:04:41 <pb__> I expect it'll be about the same.  maybe slightly better with v5-compiled code since interworking is less of a pain there.
Oct 29 12:05:08 <pb__> even on armv4t though it only costs a couple of cycles per function call, which isn't all that big a deal
Oct 29 12:05:30 <mickeyl> right. very nice.
Oct 29 12:06:22 <pb__> libpython also comes out 20% smaller in thumb mode, which is a nice saving
Oct 29 12:06:27 <kd8ikt> read some interesting talk of android+openmoko
Oct 29 12:06:33 <pb__> (about a 300k difference in absolute terms)
Oct 29 12:07:53 <mickeyl> ah, wow
Oct 29 12:08:00 <mickeyl> that's really cool
Oct 29 12:08:15 <mickeyl> especially for 01 with its 64 MB
Oct 29 12:08:42 <mickeyl> i don't think anyone except thesing is using a sharp collie anymore or one of those ipaqs (16mb)
Oct 29 12:08:51 <datenmaulwurf> raster: :)
Oct 29 12:09:50 <Hiretto> raster will be happy for that
Oct 29 12:09:52 <pb__> yeah, indeed.  I think most people have given up on 16MB long ago :-}
Oct 29 12:10:18 <pb__> we fit 32MB or 64MB on all our boards now, the 16MB chips have been obsolete for a couple of years
Oct 29 12:10:19 <mickeyl> net size was 14.5 on collie
Oct 29 12:10:41 <pb__> right
Oct 29 12:10:50 <pb__> no thumb on collie, obviously, so thesing will still be out of luck
Oct 29 12:11:02 <pb__> ditto the ipaqs, all the 16MB ones were strongarm only
Oct 29 12:11:10 <mickeyl> ooh, right, sa1100 was not a thumb capable
Oct 29 12:11:13 <mickeyl> device
Oct 29 12:11:38 <mickeyl> how much RAM do you equip your devices with these days?
Oct 29 12:11:46 <mickeyl> i think 128 is very comfortable
Oct 29 12:11:48 <pb__> still 32MB right now, but I think we will switch to 64MB soon
Oct 29 12:11:52 <mickeyl> ah
Oct 29 12:11:54 <mickeyl> right
Oct 29 12:12:01 <pb__> mostly because I want to start using cramfs for the root filesystem rather than poxy jffs2
Oct 29 12:12:09 * pb__ spits over his shoulder at the mention of the cursed filesystem
Oct 29 12:12:27 <mickeyl> hahaha
Oct 29 12:12:28 <pb__> or ubifs, of course.  keep meaning to try that
Oct 29 12:12:33 <mickeyl> oh yes
Oct 29 12:12:41 <mickeyl> ubifs is also on my list of things to try
Oct 29 12:12:47 <mickeyl> (a very long list)
Oct 29 12:12:53 <pb__> right :-}
Oct 29 12:13:09 <pb__> bbiab, our lawyers are on my case to finish writing a document for them
Oct 29 12:13:14 <mickeyl> i've been thinking about converting OE to use upstart instead of sysvinit. what do you think?
Oct 29 12:13:17 <mickeyl> ah right.
Oct 29 12:13:17 <mickeyl> cu
Oct 29 12:15:33 <CIA-12> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07stabilization/milestone4 * r9531ebb72832 10framework/framework/subsystems/oeventsd/leds_actions.py: oeventsd: Fix SetLeds action that got broken earlier
Oct 29 12:16:05 <CIA-12> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r767259831c69 10/framework/subsystems/oeventsd/leds_actions.py: Merge commit 'origin/stabilization/milestone4'
Oct 29 12:19:36 <Ainulindale> Hey there
Oct 29 12:23:17 <alphaone> hey Ainulindale 
Oct 29 12:23:24 <Ainulindale> Hey
Oct 29 12:23:35 <alphaone> Just experienced the IncomingMessage tone problem myself
Oct 29 12:23:41 <alphaone> will look at it
Oct 29 12:23:46 <Ainulindale> Yeah, Charlie broke everything again ;-)
Oct 29 12:23:50 <alphaone> can you open a ticket?
Oct 29 12:23:56 <Ainulindale> I don't have the logs
Oct 29 12:23:59 <Ainulindale> quickdev has
Oct 29 12:24:07 <Ainulindale> And I'm quite busy, leaving for the airport in some hours
Oct 29 12:24:10 <Ainulindale> So I'll pass :-p
Oct 29 12:24:14 <alphaone> Ainulindale: Na, I just always blame him because he's not in the channel to defend himself :-)
Oct 29 12:24:20 <alphaone> heh, okay
Oct 29 12:24:23 <Ainulindale> alphaone: I know, I do the same :-)
Oct 29 12:24:46 <alphaone> :-)
Oct 29 12:25:55 <alphaone> Ainulindale: Is there any reason the om-dialer3, etc. bb files are not in OE yet?
Oct 29 12:26:03 <Ainulindale> Yes
Oct 29 12:26:06 <Ainulindale> I don't have commit access
Oct 29 12:26:17 <alphaone> Ainulindale: Would you mind if I add them?
Oct 29 12:26:31 <Ainulindale> You can add them but we'll change SCM soon
Oct 29 12:26:34 <Ainulindale> (svn => git=
Oct 29 12:26:41 <Ainulindale> -=+)
Oct 29 12:26:49 <alphaone> that's okay I guess
Oct 29 12:27:01 <alphaone> How soon? :-)
Oct 29 12:27:08 <Ainulindale> As soon as we'll release
Oct 29 12:27:12 <Ainulindale> And it's pretty much ready now
Oct 29 12:27:16 <Ainulindale> So I'd say a week or so
Oct 29 12:27:19 <alphaone> Cool
Oct 29 12:27:24 <Ainulindale> Did you try our image ?
Oct 29 12:27:28 <kd8ikt> ok where is illume's source hiding my bitbake file is broken
Oct 29 12:27:30 <alphaone> Well, I think I'll add it before
Oct 29 12:27:35 <alphaone> No, not yet
Oct 29 12:27:42 <alphaone> I want to build it myself :-)
Oct 29 12:27:45 <Hiretto> Ainulindale is early for a release however
Oct 29 12:27:47 <alphaone> That's why I'm asking
Oct 29 12:28:02 <alphaone> I tried a really early set of ipks once
Oct 29 12:28:03 <kd8ikt> cause svn.enlightenment.org/svn/e/trunk/illume  exists'not
Oct 29 12:28:05 <Ainulindale> Hiretto: It's working
Oct 29 12:28:08 <Ainulindale> alphaone: Oh before any commit
Oct 29 12:28:11 <alphaone> And it already looked nice
Oct 29 12:28:12 <Ainulindale> I mailed Sean
Oct 29 12:28:17 <Ainulindale> For the packages name convention
Oct 29 12:28:20 <alphaone> about the names?
Oct 29 12:28:20 <Ainulindale> I'm waiting for his answer
Oct 29 12:28:23 <alphaone> okay
Oct 29 12:28:28 <Ainulindale> I bet I won't receive one but heh
Oct 29 12:28:32 <alphaone> So I'll do it locally
Oct 29 12:28:57 <Ainulindale> alphaone: just so you know
Oct 29 12:29:01 <Ainulindale> If we omit PIM 
Oct 29 12:29:09 <Ainulindale> I'd rather use SHR than 2007.2 or 2008.9
Oct 29 12:29:16 <Ainulindale> Feels stabler to me
Oct 29 12:29:20 <Hiretto> you have to fix some thing as poweroff ( it's only suspend ) and crash with ophonekitd
Oct 29 12:29:22 <Ainulindale> But my opinion is biased
Oct 29 12:29:29 <Ainulindale> Hiretto: which crashes ?
Oct 29 12:29:39 <Ainulindale> And what are you talking about with poweroff ?
Oct 29 12:29:53 <Hiretto> if I start contacts or dialer before my net register... it will crash
Oct 29 12:30:01 <Ainulindale> So don't start it before then :-)
Oct 29 12:30:09 <Hiretto> i can't poweroff the fr with the aux 
Oct 29 12:30:14 <Ainulindale> Hiretto: that's not what happens by the way
Oct 29 12:30:17 <Ainulindale> That's because frameworkd is starting
Oct 29 12:30:33 <Ainulindale> And regarding the second issue this is wrong
Oct 29 12:30:41 <Hiretto> :|
Oct 29 12:30:43 <Ainulindale> If you push power for 5 seconds or so
Oct 29 12:30:48 <Ainulindale> It poweroffs
Oct 29 12:31:02 <Hiretto> i have tested it
Oct 29 12:31:05 <Ainulindale> (pushing AUX to power off the device is kind of stupid isn't it ?)
Oct 29 12:31:14 <Ainulindale> Hiretto: I'm using it, and I used it this morning :-)
Oct 29 12:31:20 <Hiretto> me too :D
Oct 29 12:31:38 <Ainulindale> So either you're not up to date or I'm a liar, or I'm not up to date :-)
Oct 29 12:31:39 <Ainulindale> But since I upgraded yesterday
Oct 29 12:31:53 <Ainulindale> Hiretto: Try pushing and keeping pushed the power button for a while
Oct 29 12:32:08 <Hiretto> i have tried it
Oct 29 12:32:26 <Hiretto> but it suspend only 
Oct 29 12:33:15 <Ainulindale> It can't suspend
Oct 29 12:33:31 <Ainulindale> The default behavior is what I just described
Oct 29 12:33:40 <Ainulindale> Either they change it VERY recently
Oct 29 12:33:42 <Ainulindale> Like an hour or so
Oct 29 12:33:49 <Hiretto> mumble mumble 
Oct 29 12:33:58 <Ainulindale> Or I can't upgrade properly :-)
Oct 29 12:34:22 <Ainulindale> Hiretto: even if you try it on FSO it will do what I just told
Oct 29 12:34:28 <Ainulindale> (Or it was doing that before)
Oct 29 12:34:32 <Ainulindale> (Maybe it changed)
Oct 29 12:34:40 <Hiretto> well
Oct 29 12:35:12 <Hiretto> now I put shr on my uSD and I will see if poweroff 
Oct 29 12:35:38 <alphaone> Ainulindale: We did :-)
Oct 29 12:35:57 <alphaone> power button will suspend FR
Oct 29 12:36:11 <Ainulindale> Kernel modification ?
Oct 29 12:36:14 <Ainulindale> Recent ?
Oct 29 12:36:18 <alphaone> in rules.yaml
Oct 29 12:36:22 <Hiretto> :o
Oct 29 12:36:23 <Ainulindale> If it's not then we have a problem :-)
Oct 29 12:36:54 <alphaone> kernel got fixed a while ago
Oct 29 12:37:04 <Ainulindale> alphaone: Aaah, this is why then
Oct 29 12:37:12 <Ainulindale> We had a temporary problem with frameworkd-config remember ?
Oct 29 12:37:31 <Ainulindale> Anyway you should modify these rules
Oct 29 12:37:49 <Ainulindale> To implement the zhone behavior
Oct 29 12:37:55 * alphaone doesn't understand
Oct 29 12:38:01 <Ainulindale> i.e. short push = suspend
Oct 29 12:38:04 <Ainulindale> long push = poweroff
Oct 29 12:38:13 <Hiretto> it works the short push
Oct 29 12:38:20 <Hiretto> 2 seconds and FR suspends
Oct 29 12:38:54 <Ainulindale> alphaone: how did you handle the poweroff mechanism in FSO ?
Oct 29 12:39:11 <alphaone> Ainulindale: I believe...not at all :-)
Oct 29 12:39:18 <Ainulindale> That was my guess :-)
Oct 29 12:39:24 <alphaone> who wants to power off anyways :-)
Oct 29 12:39:31 <Ainulindale> alphaone: there should be a filter based on time
Oct 29 12:39:54 <Ainulindale> i.e. something like "WaitUntil(seconds)"
Oct 29 12:40:09 <kd8ikt> found it http://svn.projects.openmoko.org/svnroot/illume/
Oct 29 12:40:16 <Ainulindale> That could even be useful to start the ringtone some seconds after the vibration
Oct 29 12:40:24 <Ainulindale> (some people uses that)
Oct 29 12:40:58 <alphaone> Ainulindale: true
Oct 29 12:41:11 <stefan_schmidt> heh, we just found the same
Oct 29 12:41:16 <alphaone> Ainulindale: feel free to open a bug in trac
Oct 29 12:41:22 <stefan_schmidt> Time to get the battery out
Oct 29 12:41:47 <alphaone> Ainulindale: We'll get to it, but probably not for ms4
Oct 29 12:41:55 <alphaone> Got enough bugs already..
Oct 29 12:42:52 <Ainulindale> alphaone: I'll probably implement it myself then
Oct 29 12:43:05 <Ainulindale> Fear my awesome commit-break-everything rights
Oct 29 12:43:30 * alphaone shudders
Oct 29 12:43:34 <Ainulindale> alphaone: anyway these days I've been talking to Guillaume about opimd
Oct 29 12:43:38 <Ainulindale> Asking him how I could help
Oct 29 12:43:43 <Ainulindale> I guess I'll start writing tests
Oct 29 12:43:48 * Hiretto shudders too
Oct 29 12:44:10 <alphaone> Ainulindale: as long as you stay on master you can break stuff. We have an extra branch for ms4 :-)
Oct 29 12:44:22 <alphaone> tests sound great
Oct 29 12:44:24 <Ainulindale> alphaone: Don't worry I won't break stuff
Oct 29 12:44:29 <Ainulindale> I'll ask before 
Oct 29 12:44:38 <alphaone> Ainulindale: :-)
Oct 29 12:44:53 <Ainulindale> Hmmm pastas
Oct 29 12:45:00 <Hiretto> pastas?
Oct 29 12:45:08 <Ainulindale> Yes
Oct 29 12:45:38 <Hiretto> erhm... italian foods? because Pasta doesn't have a plural :D
Oct 29 12:45:51 <Ainulindale> I don't care ! :-)
Oct 29 12:45:53 <Hiretto> it is only pasta :D
Oct 29 12:46:00 <Ainulindale> In french there's a plural for that
Oct 29 12:46:05 <Ainulindale> And I'm not eating just one noodle
Oct 29 12:46:12 <Hiretto> eheh
Oct 29 12:46:34 <Hiretto> i know very well the France 
Oct 29 12:47:38 <Ainulindale> France is nice, french people isn't. You wouldn't believe how many arrogant asses like me there's here :-p
Oct 29 12:47:59 <Ainulindale> But raster alone does the balance for the whole world :->
Oct 29 12:48:21 <Hiretto> absolutely yes :>
Oct 29 12:49:19 <Ainulindale> And what's best after pasta, a nice hot espresso
Oct 29 12:49:33 <Hiretto> or cappuccino :o
Oct 29 12:49:39 <Ainulindale> Yuk
Oct 29 12:49:43 <Ainulindale> Coffee with something in it
Oct 29 12:50:36 <Hiretto> i put always a mon cherie into my coffee :D
Oct 29 12:50:44 <Ainulindale> Argh
Oct 29 12:50:52 <Ainulindale> I drink my coffee black, no sugar
Oct 29 12:50:57 <Ainulindale> That's the only way to taste it
Oct 29 12:52:59 <CIA-12> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07stabilization/milestone4 * r6813aa557ac4 10framework/framework/subsystems/oeventsd/fso_triggers.py: 
Oct 29 12:52:59 <CIA-12> freesmartphone.org: oeventsd: Fix IncomingMessage trigger (thanks quickdev)
Oct 29 12:52:59 <CIA-12> freesmartphone.org: This follows the org.freesmartphone.GSM.SIM API change from
Oct 29 12:52:59 <CIA-12> freesmartphone.org: IncomingMessage to IncomingStoredMessage
Oct 29 12:53:02 <CIA-12> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07stabilization/milestone4 * r2b39ee632ca3 10framework/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/modems/abstract/mediator.py: ogsmd: Use PDUAddress.guess for org.freesmartphone.GSM.SMS.SendMessage
Oct 29 12:53:26 <pb__> mickeyl: yes, upstart sounds like an interesting idea.  I've never really used it myself though and I am not entirely sure how it compares to the various other sysvinit replacements out there.
Oct 29 12:53:34 <pb__> I guess being able to control services by d-bus would be fairly cool.
Oct 29 12:53:55 <Hiretto> brrr... without sugar? :\
Oct 29 12:54:12 <Ainulindale> Hiretto: heh you're a fake italian :-p
Oct 29 12:54:16 <Hiretto> it's too bitter :\
Oct 29 12:54:43 <Ainulindale> Maybe that's because you never drank good cofee
Oct 29 12:54:44 <Ainulindale> +f
Oct 29 12:55:01 <Ainulindale> Drinking instant coffee without sugar is hard I agree
Oct 29 12:55:08 <Ainulindale> But real good homeroasted coffee
Oct 29 12:55:17 <Ainulindale> That's an altogether different thing
Oct 29 12:55:19 <Hiretto> maybe you have reason
Oct 29 12:55:44 <alphaone> mickey|shower: Can you make anything out of http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/59
Oct 29 12:56:05 <Hiretto> you have right because I am not a very fan of coffee :D but if my father does it I will drunk it 
Oct 29 12:56:13 <alphaone> someone just keeps reopening this bug and the error description is quite incomplete :-(
Oct 29 12:57:12 <Kensan_> mickey|shower: I thought Harald had an fso-upstart image.
Oct 29 12:58:07 <Kensan_> pb__: I think upstart is especially interesting because of it's dynamic (event based) nature.
Oct 29 12:59:07 <Hiretto> however Ainulindale
Oct 29 12:59:23 <Hiretto> with a up-to-date snapshots of SHR
Oct 29 12:59:30 <Hiretto> suspends works with a short push
Oct 29 13:00:13 <Hiretto> instead with a long push I can't poweroff... it will simple suspends
Oct 29 13:02:21 <Ainulindale> Hiretto: I know we talked about that with alphaone 
Oct 29 13:02:39 <Ainulindale> That's because of the bug of yesterday with the git revision
Oct 29 13:02:47 <Ainulindale> I have the old version of the conf files
Oct 29 13:02:53 <Ainulindale> Hence I don't have the rules for suspend
Oct 29 13:03:30 <Hiretto> ok, i get it :D
Oct 29 13:03:44 <Hiretto> and... someone can update the e-wm, illume, etc packages?
Oct 29 13:03:56 <Hiretto> with the last rev
Oct 29 13:04:07 <Hiretto> so we can use the last effort of raster
Oct 29 13:04:35 <Hiretto> or me, because I am "working" on a nice-to-see edje
Oct 29 13:05:27 <Ainulindale> If it is commited it should be built
Oct 29 13:06:27 <Hiretto> sure, openmoko testing's repository has it
Oct 29 13:09:40 <raster> btw
Oct 29 13:09:57 <raster> my svn patches have been updated now to latest
Oct 29 13:10:07 <raster> i am slowly applying my patches to my new dev git tree
Oct 29 13:12:50 <CIA-12> freesmartphone.org: 03morphis * r313 10/trunk/python-elementary/ (Makefile elementary.pyx setup.py tests/test01.py): Fix some bugs and switch to evas.c_evas.Object as base class for all our widgets
Oct 29 13:14:30 <bricode> pb_: Do you have a working toolchain that does interworking for armv4 handy?
Oct 29 13:16:14 <Kensan_> raster: your basing your work on latest OE HEAD right?
Oct 29 13:16:24 <Kensan_> your=you're
Oct 29 13:18:33 <raster> Kensan_: applying my patches (again!)
Oct 29 13:18:34 <raster> "
Oct 29 13:18:36 <raster> ?
Oct 29 13:18:55 <raster> yes
Oct 29 13:19:02 <Kensan_> raster: oh... so git is not treating you well
Oct 29 13:19:02 <raster> i did a last batch of patches in svn
Oct 29 13:19:10 <raster> now i'm syncing myself up to dev git
Oct 29 13:19:16 <raster> no
Oct 29 13:19:19 <raster> again - it isnt
Oct 29 13:19:22 <Kensan_> btw, git-am is usefull for applying a batch of patches
Oct 29 13:19:37 <Kensan_> the git-guide did not help with that?
Oct 29 13:19:40 <raster> not here
Oct 29 13:19:44 <raster> i am merging some tgether
Oct 29 13:19:51 <raster> and redoing the descriptions/logs
Oct 29 13:19:57 <raster> also many wont apply
Oct 29 13:20:15 <Kensan_> you can do a git rebase -i :)
Oct 29 13:20:29 <Kensan_> rewrite history *heh*
Oct 29 13:20:33 <raster> no - cant
Oct 29 13:20:36 <raster> git tree borked
Oct 29 13:20:40 <raster> cant find origin
Oct 29 13:20:43 <Kensan_> awww
Oct 29 13:20:46 <Kensan_> oh
Oct 29 13:20:46 <raster> just said "fuck it"
Oct 29 13:20:54 <raster> goe has pretty rigit "comit log" policies
Oct 29 13:20:57 <Kensan_> that's because oe's git location changed I think
Oct 29 13:21:00 <raster> they wont like my logs
Oct 29 13:21:38 <Kensan_> with git rebase -i you can edit your commit/commit msgs, reorder/squash patches and the whole shebang
Oct 29 13:21:56 <raster> too lates
Oct 29 13:21:59 <raster> and as i said
Oct 29 13:22:08 <raster> git borked.. yet again
Oct 29 13:22:23 <Kensan_> you'll get there...
Oct 29 13:22:32 <Kensan_> just hang in there with git ;)
Oct 29 13:22:40 <raster> too late
Oct 29 13:22:47 <raster> i do git only because i have to
Oct 29 13:22:51 <raster> not because i want to
Oct 29 13:23:04 <raster> git has been nothing but a world of trouble
Oct 29 13:23:09 <raster> anyway
Oct 29 13:23:11 <alphaone> ....for you
Oct 29 13:23:14 <raster> me <- snooze
Oct 29 13:23:39 * alphaone likes git very much
Oct 29 13:23:52 <Kensan_> you will hopefully see the benefits soon...
Oct 29 13:23:56 <raster> alphaone: yes. for me. thus for me, my opinion of git is "touching that crap only if i have to"
Oct 29 13:23:58 <Kensan_> it is worth the trouble imho
Oct 29 13:24:07 <alphaone> heh
Oct 29 13:24:10 <Kensan_> alphaone: ack
Oct 29 13:24:16 <alphaone> raster: Fair enough
Oct 29 13:24:20 <raster> i'm not goign to be basing my opinion of git on your experience when i have my own :)
Oct 29 13:24:27 <Kensan_> heh
Oct 29 13:24:48 <Kensan_> just keep your mind open. Git has it's benefits
Oct 29 13:24:59 <raster> yeah
Oct 29 13:25:03 <raster> in creating all sorts of extra work
Oct 29 13:25:13 <raster> for peopel that like process
Oct 29 13:25:17 <raster> and creating work git's great
Oct 29 13:26:26 <Kensan_> well let it be for now then but maybe it will be helpfull to you too someday...
Oct 29 13:26:35 <raster> just every 2 or 3 weeks somehting goe swrong with git
Oct 29 13:26:37 <raster> something major
Oct 29 13:26:49 <raster> and i sink a tonne of time into dealing with it
Oct 29 13:27:06 <raster> time i should be spending doing somethnig useful
Oct 29 13:27:10 <raster> instead of "shuffling stuff"
Oct 29 13:27:18 <Kensan_> raster: btw http://git.or.cz/course/svn.html
Oct 29 13:27:26 <raster> yes yes - i know
Oct 29 13:27:30 <Kensan_> yeah, that sucks...
Oct 29 13:27:33 <raster> that doesnt help
Oct 29 13:27:51 <raster> oe keeps moving git trees around
Oct 29 13:27:58 <raster> and git has no way to follow that or know
Oct 29 13:28:08 <raster> so u ned up with broken trees all the time
Oct 29 13:28:26 <raster> a bunch of my patches i can't commmit
Oct 29 13:28:29 <raster> actually i cant commit any
Oct 29 13:28:36 <raster> without co-ordinating with someone else
Oct 29 13:28:58 <raster> so u'll be waiitng a long time to see my patches in oe i think :(
Oct 29 13:29:01 <Kensan_> yeah that's bad but that's not a git-specific problem. If svn repos get shuffled around it's the same issue...
Oct 29 13:29:53 <raster> we shuffle withint the svn repo
Oct 29 13:30:07 <raster> we dont keep changing branch/origin/head/tree names
Oct 29 13:30:15 <raster> so things get completely unhooked
Oct 29 13:30:43 <Kensan_> oe moved the whole tree to a different location. in svn it's the equivalent of moving the svn repos to a different server/physical location.
Oct 29 13:30:50 <raster> also we're pretty much on the "ask for forgivness' not "permission" boat
Oct 29 13:30:55 <raster> if u have a fix - fix.
Oct 29 13:31:02 <raster> if u have an imprvement. improve.
Oct 29 13:31:19 <raster> if u know more about that software than anyone else - just go at it
Oct 29 13:31:29 <raster> if oehtes dont like it - they'll speak up soon enough
Oct 29 13:31:32 <raster> :)
Oct 29 13:31:36 <raster> anyway
Oct 29 13:31:38 <raster> zzzzzzz
Oct 29 13:31:39 <raster> :)
Oct 29 13:31:40 <Kensan_> ;)
Oct 29 13:31:46 <Kensan_> catch you later
Oct 29 14:03:09 <alphaone> mickey|shower: http://pastebin.com/m4c1174e7
Oct 29 14:03:15 <alphaone> Wow, you're showering long...
Oct 29 14:07:59 <Hiretto> http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/4b297af16a14903d8d73ab9cd5944b11.png <-- what is this?
Oct 29 14:08:22 <Hiretto> zhone with new artwork?
Oct 29 14:23:58 <quickdev> Hey
Oct 29 14:24:22 <Ainulindale> quickdev: hey little boy
Oct 29 14:24:35 <quickdev> eating, brb
Oct 29 14:32:04 <sirkha_top> what would be a good list of update sites for opkg for the fso milestone 3 image?
Oct 29 15:01:32 <kd8ikt_> repo's? couldnt tell ya but http://www.opkg.org/ has some neat list / review of a bunch of pkgz
Oct 29 15:02:35 <quickdev> Ainulindale, what's going on? ;)
Oct 29 15:04:32 <datenmaulwurf> is anybody with the code of enlightenment/libeina?
Oct 29 15:04:37 <datenmaulwurf> *familiar
Oct 29 15:09:29 <Hire1> Ainulindale is away, I think
Oct 29 15:09:40 <Hire1> however we had a problem that a discover today
Oct 29 15:09:50 <Hire1> shr doesn't poweroff
Oct 29 15:10:47 <quickdev> Hire1, you mean, no suspend?
Oct 29 15:11:16 <Hiretto> suspend works :)
Oct 29 15:11:30 <Hiretto> but if a press power button for more 5 seconds it goes suspend
Oct 29 15:11:44 <Hiretto> so, I cant poweroff it without a ssh session
Oct 29 15:11:54 <quickdev> press it 8 seconds?
Oct 29 15:12:04 <Hiretto> i press it for 20 seconds :D
Oct 29 15:12:11 <Hiretto> or more, I don't remember 
Oct 29 15:12:39 <quickdev> it's because of the frameworkd version I assume?
Oct 29 15:12:43 <Hiretto> yes
Oct 29 15:13:20 <Hiretto> Ainulindale thinks is an issue with the framework
Oct 29 15:13:39 <quickdev> ok, we'll see ;)
Oct 29 15:22:27 <sirkha_top> kd8ikt_: thanks
Oct 29 15:53:40 <Hiretto> quickdev you need to do sed -i -e s,asu,illume, /etc/enlightenment/default_profile
Oct 29 15:53:50 <Hiretto> and next restart the xserver
Oct 29 15:54:18 <quickdev> yeah, one moment
Oct 29 16:39:25 <Hiretto> dum de dum
Oct 29 16:50:53 <CIA-12> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07stabilization/milestone4 * rde3c6f522dba 10framework/framework/subsystems/oeventsd/fso_actions.py: 
Oct 29 16:50:53 <CIA-12> freesmartphone.org: oeventsd: Fix MessageToneAction
Oct 29 16:50:53 <CIA-12> freesmartphone.org: This follows a change in {Audio,Vibrator}Action to tasklets
Oct 29 16:51:34 <CIA-12> freesmartphone.org: 03daniel 07framework * r78bf758d8e77 10/framework/subsystems/oeventsd/fso_actions.py: Merge branch 'stabilization/milestone4'
Oct 29 17:10:27 <quickdev> hey abraxa_ 
Oct 29 17:10:38 <quickdev> how are you? :)
Oct 29 17:34:00 <quickdev> Ainulindale?
Oct 29 17:37:20 <nyu> oh Elbereth
Oct 29 18:33:39 <Hiretto> Ainulindale
Oct 29 19:02:42 <Hiretto> ehy
Oct 29 19:02:48 <Hiretto> anybody? :|
Oct 29 19:46:41 <Hiretto> quickdev?
Oct 29 19:52:03 <quickdev_> Hiretto, yeah?
Oct 29 19:52:51 <Hiretto> oh wow
Oct 29 19:52:54 <Hiretto> you are alive :D
Oct 29 19:53:20 <Hiretto> well, nothing, because this chan become too ... silent
Oct 29 19:59:37 <quickdev_> Hiretto, I'm leaving now, have a good day
Oct 29 20:01:19 <Hiretto> Ainulindale: quickdev hates me :/
Oct 29 20:49:47 <gismo> Does anyone using Debian on his FR want to try the new device-agnosting fso-frameworkd version?  (this is milestone3, just with every config/sound file stripped out)?
Oct 29 21:02:14 <quickdev> hey
Oct 29 21:02:17 <quickdev> Ainulindale, here?
Oct 29 21:33:42 <henkie> if i want to report a bug where should i be?
Oct 29 21:36:28 <lindi-> henkie: report a bug in what?
Oct 29 21:38:09 <tmzt> gismo: device angostic as in what?
Oct 29 21:38:25 <tmzt> gismo: gta01 and 02?
Oct 29 21:38:49 <lindi-> gismo: does it have CBHZ=0 during calls? ;)
Oct 29 21:40:16 <gismo> lindi-: not yet, I discovered that bug yesterday
Oct 29 21:40:49 <gismo> tmzt: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/pkg-fso-maint/2008-October/000142.html
Oct 29 21:41:41 <gismo> tmzt: or another post on the smartphones-userland (the archive seems to be down)
Oct 29 21:41:44 <tmzt> /etc/pointercal is very ts specific, isn't it?
Oct 29 21:42:15 <lindi-> gismo: yeah, if http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/151 is not resolved soon i guess debian needs to add a patch of its own
Oct 29 21:42:36 <gismo> tmzt: yes, it's in the GTA02 config package -> http://git.debian.org/?p=pkg-fso/openmoko-files.git
Oct 29 21:42:42 <gismo> lindi-: that's what I think, yet
Oct 29 21:43:03 <tmzt> oh, I'm reading the quoting wrong
Oct 29 21:43:46 <gismo> lindi-: my Debian roadmap: 1) device-agnostic fso-frameworkd (it's finished and tested, but only by me...), 2) Ogg support and fso-sounds-yue together with ticket #151
Oct 29 21:43:53 <gismo> lindi-: then... upload to Debian main!
Oct 29 21:52:37 <lindi-> gismo: i am thinking about getting rid of frameworkd completely :PP
Oct 29 21:53:57 <lindi-> gismo: (i have a secret plan to just write a really simple GSM application that talks to /dev/ttySAC0 directly and just works without trying to do anything extra)
Oct 29 21:54:55 <gismo> lindi-: that would be an option, but not for the "normal" Debian user
Oct 29 21:56:02 <lindi-> gismo: many people seem to just want a phone app that works
Oct 29 21:56:15 <gismo> lindi-: Om2007.2 ;-)
Oct 29 21:56:43 <gismo> lindi-: this is what I use when I must be available (and FWIW the FR is my *primary* and only mobile phone)
Oct 29 21:56:45 <lindi-> gismo: i thought it was far from simple
Oct 29 21:56:58 <lindi-> gismo: so we should package maybe those too
Oct 29 21:57:12 <lindi-> gismo: or just create a really really simple gsm app that does only minimal stuff
Oct 29 21:57:19 <gismo> lindi-: it's complicated, yet, but at least it makes/receives calls/SMSs
Oct 29 21:57:30 <lindi-> gismo: so that you can participate in development and then fallback to this simple app when you really want things to work
Oct 29 21:57:51 <lindi-> gismo: for example it could just save all incoming SMS to a directory. no need to support showing them in the UI
Oct 29 21:58:21 <gismo> lindi-: frankly speaking, since August I've slept not a lot and after fso-fraemworkd & Co. will land in Debian main I'll rest a bit
Oct 29 21:58:33 <lindi-> gismo: sure
Oct 29 21:58:39 <gismo> lindi-: since I've also other Debian work (not speaking of a PhD in Biology to finish)
Oct 29 21:58:39 <lindi-> gismo: i'm not saying you should do this :)
Oct 29 21:58:51 <gismo> lindi-: :-D
Oct 29 22:00:50 <lindi-> if i only knew how to make a workable UI i'd write the gsm app right now
Oct 29 22:08:19 <ajuonline> mickey|shower: around?
Oct 29 22:14:23 <mickey|shower> only for a bit. just came back from sports and need to relax
Oct 29 22:14:38 <CIA-12> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * r24e4ec6658fb 10/framework/subsystems/odeviced/audio.py: odeviced: audio: fallback to NullPlayer if GStreamerPlayer can't be launched
Oct 29 22:17:09 <nyu> gismo_: and how do you move contacts back and forth?
Oct 29 22:17:39 <gismo_> nyu: my ADSL connections dropped, can you reask, please?
Oct 29 22:17:55 <nyu> gismo_: that was all ;-)
Oct 29 22:18:03 <gismo_> nyu: ah, OK
Oct 29 22:18:20 <gismo_> nyu: do you mean between Om2007.2 and Debian?
Oct 29 22:18:23 <nyu> yea
Oct 29 22:18:57 <gismo_> nyu: no need, Debian (better, Zhone/frameworkd) only supports SIM contacts, so no need to move them
Oct 29 22:19:13 <nyu> gismo_: but om can't write contacts to sim afaik
Oct 29 22:19:23 <gismo_> nyu: however, Om2007.2 doesn't read all of them, so I've a small book with me ;-)
Oct 29 22:19:33 <nyu> ouch
Oct 29 22:19:46 <nyu> my contact management is still a mess
Oct 29 22:19:56 <gismo_> nyu: BBDB?  :-D
Oct 29 22:20:13 <nyu> I mean that when I switch OSes I lose everything
Oct 29 22:20:35 * nyu tried om2007 -> om2008 -> qtopia 4.3 -> qtopia 4.4 -> debian
Oct 29 22:20:42 <gismo_> nyu: the situation with the FR it's suboptimal, I know, but I don't want to start using something (Om*) which I know I'm going to loose
Oct 29 22:21:29 <nyu> does Zhone/frameworkd store contacts in sim or in filesystem?
Oct 29 22:21:41 <gismo_> nyu: I started with Om2007.2, then two days later switched to Qtopia and since DebConf8 Debian most of the time, except when I must be available (Om2007.2 is still my preferred, the 2008 series is way behind it IMHO)
Oct 29 22:22:13 <nyu> gismo_: which window manager do you use?
Oct 29 22:23:37 <gismo_> nyu: I'm part of the Debian FSO Team (http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebianFSO), so I use the plain Debian installation
Oct 29 22:23:55 <FilipLinux4BE> nyu: what's your favourite distro from all the ones you tried ?
Oct 29 22:24:15 <nyu> gismo_: you mean plain zhone?  how do you launch apps?
Oct 29 22:24:30 <gismo_> nyu: I don't, my FR is a *phone* ATM
Oct 29 22:25:13 <nyu> FilipLinux4BE: on FR? each had its pros and cons.  but debian has clearly the most potential
Oct 29 22:25:22 <gismo_> nyu: FWIW there's the openmoko-panel-plugin, which can start matchbox-keyboard and then C-A-x and you've a terminal (in case of)
Oct 29 22:25:29 <gismo_> FilipLinux4BE: nyu is a Debian Developer ;-)
Oct 29 22:25:53 <nyu> since I didn't find anything that was really stable, I thought I might as well make myself comfortable ;-)
Oct 29 22:26:33 <gismo_> nyu: the main problem I see with every distro (Debian included) is that the phone part is still far from being finished (and working)
Oct 29 22:26:40 <lindi-> gismo: yep
Oct 29 22:26:49 <nyu> gismo_: euh, you just screwed my unbiased appearence ;-)
Oct 29 22:27:02 <gismo_> nyu: people focus on fancy stuff (GPS, music and $WHATEVER), but the FR is primarily a phone, nothing more, nothing less
Oct 29 22:27:06 <lindi-> gismo: there are different opinions on what should be done but imho we need a really barebone phone app that just works(tm)
Oct 29 22:27:14 <gismo_> lindi-: fully ACK
Oct 29 22:27:37 <nio_> agreed
Oct 29 22:27:37 <lindi-> just open /dev/ttySAC0 and do the minimal things well, maybe without dbus completely
Oct 29 22:27:45 <gismo_> nyu: sorry for your hidden identity, I was looking for friends :-D
Oct 29 22:27:50 <nyu> qtopia was pretty stable/usable as a phone, except playing music screwed sound output
Oct 29 22:27:53 <lindi-> when that is stable you can start adding features
Oct 29 22:28:01 <nyu> hehe
Oct 29 22:28:10 <lindi-> and preferable add the features to another project of course
Oct 29 22:28:19 <lindi-> and keep the barebone phone app as a fallback in case of emergency ;)
Oct 29 22:28:23 <gismo_> nyu: exactly, I was quite happy with Qtopia, the only thing not working was MMS, but I don't care about them
Oct 29 22:28:35 * nyu RFP: qtopia  :-)
Oct 29 22:29:00 <gismo_> nyu: I'm a GTK+ guy, I think that says all, doesn't?
Oct 29 22:29:16 <lindi-> maybe the barebone app should be done in C and GTK, hard to say
Oct 29 22:29:19 <nio_> exactly right, lindi- . I want to apply for a job some time soon, and it would be a shame if they phoned me and the connection is bad, escpecially since it's a linux job..)
Oct 29 22:29:22 <nyu> ah well.  I never cared much on gtk vs qt ;-)
Oct 29 22:29:27 <lindi-> nio_: indeed
Oct 29 22:29:50 <FilipLinux4BE> well, i think the problem is even below the phone part: the OS is still not 100% OK. 
Oct 29 22:29:55 <nyu> nio_: but then you could ask them to send a patch *g*
Oct 29 22:29:56 <lindi-> nio_: since i can call with picocom the AT magic is really not that complex
Oct 29 22:29:59 <gismo_> nyu: and until now the Debian FSO Team guidelines were/are to follow as much as possible upstream FSO, which means frameworkd+illume (which is still missing because of e17 depdendencies)
Oct 29 22:30:02 <nio_> hehe nyu 
Oct 29 22:30:32 <lindi-> gismo_: i don't get this illume thing at all but maybe that's just me
Oct 29 22:30:34 <nyu> did you all get GPS working on debian/fso?
Oct 29 22:30:47 <lindi-> nyu: has always worked well here
Oct 29 22:30:57 <gismo_> nyu: like a charm
Oct 29 22:31:04 <FilipLinux4BE> once kernel is rock solid, most distributions will have a lot of potential 
Oct 29 22:31:12 <gismo_> nyu: and out of the box
Oct 29 22:31:36 <lindi-> FilipLinux4BE: but when we have the barebone phone app then you can easily install whatever distro you want and be able to make calls
Oct 29 22:31:46 <lindi-> FilipLinux4BE: no need to port e17 svn head and illume to be able to make calls :)
Oct 29 22:31:56 <FilipLinux4BE> and the FR is a versatile device, with different users/uses with the specific distro's 
Oct 29 22:32:05 <nyu> it's strange here.  the device spits data (seen tangogps print reports to stderr), but the app gets no reading
Oct 29 22:32:11 <lindi-> FilipLinux4BE: yes, that's why upstream and distros should be separate
Oct 29 22:32:18 <gismo_> nyu: do you've fso-gpsd installed?
Oct 29 22:32:28 <lindi-> nyu: echo rw | netcat localhost gpsd
Oct 29 22:32:30 <nyu> yep, I followed the instructions by the book
Oct 29 22:32:51 <gismo_> nyu: which book?  Haven't you followed http://wiki.debian.org/DebianOnFreeRunner?
Oct 29 22:32:53 <nyu> I recall having tried that, let me check bash_history
Oct 29 22:32:54 <FilipLinux4BE> OM's focus *must* be making a rock-oslid bullet proof kernel with all devices perfectly supported
Oct 29 22:33:07 <lindi-> FilipLinux4BE: should be :)
Oct 29 22:33:10 <FilipLinux4BE> inclusing suspend/resume, WiFi, max. battery life
Oct 29 22:33:19 <nyu> gismo_: it was an expression ;-)
Oct 29 22:33:26 <lindi-> FilipLinux4BE: indeed, i'd pay them for that much more than pretty UIs
Oct 29 22:33:34 <nyu> debian-gta02:~# echo rw | todos | nc localhost 2947
Oct 29 22:33:44 <nyu> lindi-: ^
Oct 29 22:33:48 <lindi-> abuse of todos :)
Oct 29 22:33:50 <FilipLinux4BE> nyu: indeed, al on top is easier for the community
Oct 29 22:33:58 <nyu> lindi-: it spits stuff
Oct 29 22:34:03 <nio_> Speaking of battery life, is the kernel, or some of them, tickless?
Oct 29 22:34:07 <nyu> lindi-: it needed a CR, didn't it?
Oct 29 22:34:08 <lindi-> nyu: should work then
Oct 29 22:34:10 <lindi-> nio_: afaik not
Oct 29 22:34:16 <lindi-> nyu: i didn't need CR
Oct 29 22:34:17 <FilipLinux4BE> but low-level stuff is more or less impossible ofr 'outsiders'
Oct 29 22:34:23 <lindi-> FilipLinux4BE: yep
Oct 29 22:34:36 <lindi-> for example wifi is unusable for me because of the events/0 bug
Oct 29 22:34:49 <nyu> debian-gta02:~# DISPLAY=:0 tangogps
Oct 29 22:34:50 <gismo_> nyu: ah, OK, because IIRC there's a physical book about the FR, I stumbled upon it yesterday
Oct 29 22:34:58 <lindi-> nyu: you work as root? ;)
Oct 29 22:35:00 <nyu> and it thinks i'm in africa
Oct 29 22:35:04 <lindi-> nyu: heh
Oct 29 22:35:07 <FilipLinux4BE> wifi : once started, drains battery. No way to properly shut it down again
Oct 29 22:35:08 <nyu> lindi-: on the fr I do
Oct 29 22:35:21 <lindi-> FilipLinux4BE: true too
Oct 29 22:35:52 <nyu> anyone want to see the log?  maybe it rings a bell
Oct 29 22:36:16 <nio_> I don't know how much energy a tickless kernel would save, but I've been using it on two computers for months without a problem, and it's really easy, so maybe it's an idea to add that to the next kernel. Just a thought..)
Oct 29 22:37:00 <nyu> http://paste.debian.net/20289/
Oct 29 22:37:02 <gismo_> nio_: you should check everything with Intel's powertop...
Oct 29 22:37:14 <gismo_> nyu: lindi- is the GPS-master AFAIK
Oct 29 22:37:18 <nio_> Even better idea gismo_ :)
Oct 29 22:37:27 <nyu> nio_: what does tickless mean?  no clock interrupt?
Oct 29 22:37:59 <nyu> lindi-: does above log look healthy?
Oct 29 22:38:16 <nio_> "The tickless kernel feature (CONFIG_NO_HZ) enables 'on-demand' timer interrupts: if there is no timer to be expired for say 1.5 seconds when the system goes idle, then the system will stay totally idle for 1.5 seconds"
Oct 29 22:38:23 <lindi-> nyu: i am not sure
Oct 29 22:38:32 <lindi-> nyu: what if you just run real gpsd for a comparison?
Oct 29 22:39:07 <nyu> lindi-: that's another daemon?
Oct 29 22:39:29 <gismo_> nyu: that was *the* daemon before Gypsy arrived...
Oct 29 22:39:53 <nyu> http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/151 looks like something that could make my life easier
Oct 29 22:40:05 <lindi-> nyu: gpsd is how you normally...
Oct 29 22:40:11 <lindi-> blah, too mouch lag and gismo_ was faster :)
Oct 29 22:40:52 <nyu> I just install it, and it will use the same port / speak the same protocol?
Oct 29 22:40:56 <gismo_> nyu: about #151 and when it'll be in Debian, I posted my roadmap before
Oct 29 22:41:32 <gismo_> nyu: [22:43:46] <gismo> lindi-: my Debian roadmap: 1) device-agnostic fso-frameworkd (it's finished and tested, but only by me...), 2) Ogg support and fso-sounds-yue together with ticket #151
Oct 29 22:41:37 <lindi-> nyu: stop fso-gpsd yes
Oct 29 22:41:57 <lindi-> nyu: fso-gpsd is the emulation layer for the gpsd protocol so the real gpsd should work
Oct 29 22:44:59 <nyu> ttySAC0 ?
Oct 29 22:45:38 <lindi-> nyu: that's the serial port to talk to the GSM chip
Oct 29 22:45:49 <lindi-> nyu: picocom /dev/ttySAC0
Oct 29 22:45:53 <lindi-> nyu: ATDT...
Oct 29 22:46:00 <lindi-> nyu: and you've made a call :)
Oct 29 22:46:08 <nyu> oh, ATDT
Oct 29 22:46:18 <nyu> that evokes distant memories
Oct 29 22:46:44 <nyu> can it do ATDP too? ;-)
Oct 29 22:47:09 <lindi-> nyu: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GSM
Oct 29 22:47:23 <gismo_> nyu: distant memories for me, too ;-)
Oct 29 22:47:40 <nio_> likewise
Oct 29 22:48:20 * nio_ still vividly remembers the exact noises of modems connecting
Oct 29 22:48:22 <nyu> okay, but gpsd wants the GPS device
Oct 29 22:48:34 <gismo> nyu: /dev/ttySAC1 (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo_FreeRunner_GPS)
Oct 29 22:48:50 <lindi-> nyu: cat /etc/frameworkd.conf also tells you it
Oct 29 22:49:58 <nyu> connection to gpsd SUCCEEDED
Oct 29 22:49:59 <nyu> Rcvd: GPSD,R=1
Oct 29 22:50:05 <nyu> and still it thinks I'm in africa
Oct 29 22:50:14 <lindi-> maybe you are ;)
Oct 29 22:50:19 <nyu> by the sea, near Sao Tome
Oct 29 22:50:24 <gismo> nyu: OK, the same problem I had, I think
Oct 29 22:50:39 <gismo> nyu: is your GPS "outside", i.e. can it see the satellites?
Oct 29 22:51:07 <gismo> nyu: and remember the TTFF -> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FreeRunner_GPS_Software_Fix_TTFF_Measurement_Test
Oct 29 22:51:19 <nyu> gismo: there's a roof on top of me
Oct 29 22:51:39 <lindi-> nyu: that usually is enough to block it
Oct 29 22:51:46 <gismo> nyu: the same was for me at DebConf8 and the GPS didn't work, but as soon as I went out it was OK
Oct 29 22:51:47 <nyu> you mean walls are opaque to gps waves?
Oct 29 22:51:52 <gismo> nyu: yes
Oct 29 22:51:53 <nyu> argh
Oct 29 22:52:05 <nyu> problem is, I can only start tangogps via ssh
Oct 29 22:52:27 <nyu> I think I need some sort of menu
Oct 29 22:52:36 <gismo> nyu: then use the force, Luke!  :-D
Oct 29 22:52:46 <lindi-> nyu: i use this icewm thing i advertised, it has a menu :)
Oct 29 22:52:52 <gismo> nyu: I tested through SSH + WiFi
Oct 29 22:52:58 <gismo> nyu: and the FR on my balcony
Oct 29 22:53:10 <nio_> maybe you could time the command?
Oct 29 22:53:18 <nyu> brb
Oct 29 22:54:44 <gismo> lindi-: BTW, have you experimented with more drivers as modules in the kernel?
Oct 29 22:55:15 <lindi-> gismo: parse error
Oct 29 22:55:32 <lindi-> gismo: yes, i have added everything as modules
Oct 29 22:55:44 <gismo> lindi-: you're right, it was a contradiction in itself :-D
Oct 29 22:55:47 <lindi-> (except wlan and ext2 and SD and a few other things)
Oct 29 22:55:58 <gismo> lindi-: and it works without any problem, I think
Oct 29 22:56:12 <lindi-> mostly
Oct 29 22:56:25 <gismo> lindi-: cool, thanks
Oct 29 22:56:27 <lindi-> i'm bit afraid of using initramfs yet but maybe it's just unnecessary fear
Oct 29 22:57:07 <gismo> lindi-: I'll use it anyway, this is how Debian manages its kernels
Oct 29 22:57:47 <lindi-> as long as MODULES=dep is set in initramfs.conf it should be ok
Oct 29 22:58:14 <gismo> lindi-: make-kpkg should do everything for us, but sticking with the Debian linux-2.6 debian/rules process means that the smooth from a kernel maintained by the pkg-fso team to the same but maintained by the Debian kernel team ;-)
Oct 29 22:58:53 <lindi-> gismo: don't get me wrong, i'm huge fan of initramfs on PCs
Oct 29 22:59:45 <nyu> how does one hook icewm in the default X session?
Oct 29 22:59:52 <gismo> lindi-: I didn't
Oct 29 23:00:04 <gismo> nyu: just replace the matchbox-window-manager call IIRC
Oct 29 23:00:07 <lindi-> gismo: for example http://iki.fi/lindi/darcs/vtgrab-initramfs/ starts a vtgrab server very early in the boot process and allows me to interact with the console remotely even if something fatal breaks (like missing ext2 support)
Oct 29 23:00:34 <nyu> IceWM: Another window manager already running, exiting...
Oct 29 23:00:36 <nyu> ouch
Oct 29 23:00:42 <gismo> nyu: or if icewm provides an alternatives for x-session-manager or x-window-manager, it should work without the ~/.Xsession as well
Oct 29 23:01:05 <lindi-> gismo: imho debian should also switch away from running things as root
Oct 29 23:01:30 <lindi-> nyu: i just exec icewm-session in my .Xsession
Oct 29 23:01:54 <lindi-> nyu: and use gdm autologin (yeah, that eats memory but i haven't had time to look for a better option)
Oct 29 23:02:04 <gismo> lindi-: I think it's still too early, because we then need D-Bus permissions & Co.
Oct 29 23:02:15 <nyu> lindi-: why not /etc/init.d/zhone-session ?
Oct 29 23:02:16 <lindi-> gismo: i didn't need to change any dbus permissions
Oct 29 23:02:24 <lindi-> nyu: HOME was not set
Oct 29 23:02:28 <gismo> nyu: zhone-session is dead in favor of nodm
Oct 29 23:02:42 <gismo> lindi-: so does it work out of the box?
Oct 29 23:02:46 <lindi-> and i'll use gdm instead of nodm since i trust it does the right thing
Oct 29 23:03:04 <lindi-> gismo: yes, i only had to add suid bit to /usr/bin/apm
Oct 29 23:03:12 * gismo has never tested anything other than the plain Debian (do you know free time? I don't)
Oct 29 23:03:44 <lindi-> i do daily backups. i have been thinking maybe i should share my backup repository (rsync and http)
Oct 29 23:03:44 <gismo> lindi-: that's good, I think I need to post a ToDo list so people can add stuff...
Oct 29 23:03:46 <nyu> zhone still runs matchbox
Oct 29 23:03:54 <nyu> and x-window-manager points to icewm
Oct 29 23:03:56 <lindi-> this way people could easily check how i do things
Oct 29 23:04:13 <lindi-> gismo: wiki has a todo list and i even added a link to it :)
Oct 29 23:04:35 <lindi-> nyu: zhone does not run programs?
Oct 29 23:04:39 <gismo> lindi-: I hate wikis, that's simple...
Oct 29 23:04:46 <lindi-> gismo: i understand :)
Oct 29 23:04:50 <nyu> lindi-: how?
Oct 29 23:04:57 <lindi-> nyu: you mean zhone-session?
Oct 29 23:05:04 <nyu> ah, right
Oct 29 23:05:04 <lindi-> gismo: i can send you an ascii copy :)
Oct 29 23:05:07 <nyu> I can't run the dialer now
Oct 29 23:05:32 <gismo> lindi-: mail, mail!  (kidding, I must check wikis...)
Oct 29 23:06:41 <lindi-> anyways i guess i should sleep now, i hope i have time to write some prototype phone app
Oct 29 23:09:23 <nyu> lindi-: you run icewm from gdm -> ~/.xsession, right?
Oct 29 23:09:26 <nyu> gismo: and you?
Oct 29 23:09:47 <lindi-> nyu: yes at the moment
Oct 29 23:09:51 <lindi-> nyu: it's .Xsession
Oct 29 23:10:18 <nyu> lindi-: but for that to work, don't you need gdm?
Oct 29 23:10:26 <gismo> nyu: I still use matchbox-window-manager from ~/.xsession
Oct 29 23:10:42 <nyu> gismo: how do you launch apps from that?
Oct 29 23:10:49 <nyu> other than the predefined ones
Oct 29 23:10:51 <gismo> nyu: if you start things in ~/.xsession, you don't need any *DM
Oct 29 23:11:14 <nyu> gismo: but then I can't switch between windows
Oct 29 23:11:23 <lindi-> DM is not WM
Oct 29 23:11:29 <nyu> ah
Oct 29 23:11:33 <nyu> sorry, missread
Oct 29 23:11:36 <gismo> nyu: [23:25:22] <gismo_> nyu: FWIW there's the openmoko-panel-plugin, which can start matchbox-keyboard and then C-A-x and you've a terminal (in case of)
Oct 29 23:11:36 <gismo> nyu: you can, with matchbox-window-keyboard
Oct 29 23:11:57 <nyu> keyboard?
Oct 29 23:12:02 <nomeata> gismo: I think it’s the dbus bug I found that makes it work out of box (http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=503532)
Oct 29 23:12:33 <gismo> nomeata: hola Joachim!
Oct 29 23:13:01 <gismo> nomeata: what was "it"?
Oct 29 23:13:22 <nyu> gismo: ah, this C-A-x sounds handy
Oct 29 23:13:42 <nomeata> <lindi-> gismo: i didn't need to change any dbus permissions
Oct 29 23:13:47 <gismo> nyu: /etc/matchbox/ is your friend
Oct 29 23:13:49 <gismo> nomeata: ah, OK
Oct 29 23:14:00 <gismo> nomeata: now I understand :-D
Oct 29 23:14:21 <nomeata> so it’s handy on a phone that there is no dbus security, but hopefully won’t last long
Oct 29 23:14:46 <nyu> ah ok
Oct 29 23:14:48 <lindi-> nomeata: you wouldn't happen to know how to make dbus-monitor show return values?
Oct 29 23:14:57 <nyu> but now that I have a terminal, I can live without a WM ;-)
Oct 29 23:15:09 <lindi-> nomeata: now that you have read dbus source recently
Oct 29 23:15:15 <nomeata> lindi-: no, I never found out how to use dbus-monitor
Oct 29 23:15:29 <nomeata> lindi-: but I have a dbus package with debugging enabled, if you need it
Oct 29 23:15:41 <lindi-> nomeata: open /etc/dbus-1/system-local.conf
Oct 29 23:15:49 <lindi-> nomeata: append <!DOCTYPE busconfig PUBLIC "-//freedesktop//DTD D-BUS Bus Configuration 1.0//EN"  "http://www.freedesktop.org/standards/dbus/1.0/busconfig.dtd"> <busconfig>   <policy user="bin">     <allow eavesdrop="true"/>   </policy> </busconfig>
Oct 29 23:16:03 <lindi-> nomeata: then use sudo su bin -c "dbus-monitor --system"  to sniff
Oct 29 23:16:12 <nomeata> ah, interesting. thx.
Oct 29 23:16:24 <nomeata> (any reason not to use root for that?)
Oct 29 23:16:34 <lindi-> it works around a bug but i don't remember which one
Oct 29 23:17:17 <gismo> nomeata: can I quote you on the pkg-fso mailing list?
Oct 29 23:17:41 <nomeata> gismo: yes, of course
Oct 29 23:19:08 <gismo> nomeata: thx, done
Oct 29 23:24:18 <nomeata> gismo: did you evaluate other terminal emulators for the freerunner? package descriptions of xvt, wterm and rxvt indicate that they might be lightweither than xterm.
Oct 29 23:25:34 <gismo> nomeata: not yet, but I was thinking of xvt as my main terminal emulator, which means that it it's completely xterm's compatible will be the first choice for the FR
Oct 29 23:26:17 <gismo> nomeata: and xvt dependencies are the shortest (nothing more than libc and libx11)
Oct 29 23:26:42 <gismo> nomeata: I'm not a big rxvt fan, I remember I tested it around 2/3 years ago but then I went back to xterm
Oct 29 23:27:42 <nomeata> I want unicode support, though, because ☎ makes a nice prompt on the freerunner, to distinguish it from my desktop when working over SSH :-)
Oct 29 23:28:55 <gismo> nomeata: +1 (I works with Unicode only, no other locales)
Oct 29 23:29:37 <gismo> nomeata: and anyway Debian uses Unicode by default
Oct 29 23:31:07 <gismo> nomeata: which eliminates xvt and wterm AFAIK
Oct 29 23:32:32 <gismo> nomeata: rxvt-unicode requires 3.7MB on my sid (where I already have a lot of packages), while rxvt-unicode-lite "only" 3.1MB :-(
Oct 29 23:47:34 <nomeata> good night everyone
Oct 29 23:47:59 <gismo> nomeata: good night, you'll have something to read tomorrow morning :-D
Oct 29 23:48:05 <gismo> too late :-(
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