**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 08 02:59:57 2009
Jan 08 04:06:21 <jhass840> I just realized that in order to help you guys I'm going to need to learn C, can anyone recommend a good place to start?
Jan 08 04:06:33 <jhass840> like a book
Jan 08 08:33:32 <Sargun> shouldn't mickey|zzZZzz be awake now?
Jan 08 09:01:08 <sleipnir> lol give hime some time it's 10am here...
Jan 08 09:08:11 <Sargun> sleipnir, Awake!
Jan 08 09:26:09 <morphis> heyho
Jan 08 09:45:53 <Sargun> Anyone read my ML post on Smartphone-standards?
Jan 08 09:52:47 <morphis_> Sargun: me :)
Jan 08 09:54:41 <Sargun> morphis_, what do you think
Jan 08 09:55:37 <morphis_> Sargun: I think we need this 
Jan 08 09:55:54 <morphis_> in fso or as own daemon
Jan 08 09:57:04 <morphis_> do you think there is more optimisation potential?
Jan 08 09:57:38 <morphis_> Sargun: do you contact mickey or someone else from the fso team directly (per irc)?
Jan 08 09:57:52 <Ainulindale> Sargun: yes, me too
Jan 08 09:57:56 <Ainulindale> But nobody answers
Jan 08 09:59:00 <Sargun> morphis_, No, I made another post.
Jan 08 09:59:11 <Sargun> let me link to it
Jan 08 09:59:28 <morphis_> I think there maybe some conflict with tichy, which does something comparable
Jan 08 10:00:13 <Sargun> Well, the idea is to have it as a general purpose thing
Jan 08 10:00:19 <Sargun> but right now it'll specialize in Python
Jan 08 10:00:38 <morphis_> jepp
Jan 08 10:01:01 <Sargun> A) http://projects.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/smartphones-standards/2009-January/000798.html
Jan 08 10:01:06 <Sargun> B) http://projects.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/smartphones-standards/2009-January/000805.html
Jan 08 10:02:52 <Sargun> Obviously, my mailing list posts are so intriguing, that once someone looks at them, they are captivated FOREVER.
Jan 08 10:04:00 <morphis_> :)
Jan 08 10:04:54 <morphis_> the second message sounds interessting, currently I have no closer look to the fso code, but it could be a good solution for the problem
Jan 08 10:07:22 <morphis_> Sargun: I think it would be best, if you contact mickey|zzZZzz directly
Jan 08 10:07:39 <Sargun> morphis_, you want to do that for me, please?
Jan 08 10:08:13 <morphis_> Sargun: jepp, I can
Jan 08 10:08:19 <Sargun> thanks
Jan 08 10:09:10 <morphis_> I will give him the two links to your messages
Jan 08 10:09:57 <PaulFertser> Sargun: i probably know what he'll say. FSO team is very small and there're going through a stabilization phase atm and have plenty of unresolved problems, including opimd etc. But after MS5 they can evaluate all pros and contras and decide :)
Jan 08 10:14:26 <morphis_> so I am off
Jan 08 10:14:27 <morphis_> bye
Jan 08 10:28:00 <rwhitby> Is Openmoko still using git.openmoko.org for Om200x, or have they moved to git.openembedded.net ?
Jan 08 10:28:09 <Ainulindale> hey ptitjes 
Jan 08 10:31:22 <ptitjes> Yop
Jan 08 10:31:30 <ptitjes> how r u ?
Jan 08 10:32:22 <ptitjes> won't stay too much - just taking a coffe before going to work
Jan 08 10:33:11 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: may I come to see you in the next days (I really need to get my CDs back)
Jan 08 10:34:01 <Ainulindale> yep
Jan 08 10:34:06 <Ainulindale> I'm available saturday
Jan 08 10:35:01 <ptitjes> Ok I may pass (have a nigthmare saturday :))
Jan 08 10:35:46 <ptitjes> Also if you have some time next week so that we can speak some hours again
Jan 08 10:36:01 <ptitjes> got some things and toughts to show you
Jan 08 10:36:16 <Ainulindale> No problem
Jan 08 10:36:23 <Ainulindale> I'm still waiting for odeviced in Vala by the way :-)
Jan 08 10:36:31 <Ainulindale> I thought this was a matter of hours :-p
Jan 08 10:36:35 <Ainulindale> (err, oeventsd)
Jan 08 10:39:11 <ptitjes> odeviced in vala? though this was what Sup3rkiddo was working on ?
Jan 08 10:39:21 <ptitjes> ha ok oevents
Jan 08 10:39:28 <ptitjes> yeah this is on the way
Jan 08 10:39:37 <ptitjes> this is what I must show you
Jan 08 10:40:13 <ptitjes> I'm not taking the short path anyway so this is a matter a little bit more hours
Jan 08 10:40:19 <Ainulindale> Heh
Jan 08 10:40:24 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: still need a repo or not?
Jan 08 10:40:26 <Ainulindale> I can create it now
Jan 08 10:40:32 <ptitjes> but it is hard to find some time as work a lot these days
Jan 08 10:40:48 <ptitjes> I was wondering why don't you create a lab repo
Jan 08 10:40:49 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: s/work/drink/
Jan 08 10:41:01 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: a lab repo?
Jan 08 10:41:06 <ptitjes> I think it is better for pyphonelog, shr-settings... and me
Jan 08 10:41:12 <ptitjes> than having a repo for each one
Jan 08 10:41:19 <Ainulindale> I'd rather have a repo for each one
Jan 08 10:41:28 <Ainulindale> That's the way I want to roll :-)
Jan 08 10:41:34 <ptitjes> grrrr I really work!! :)
Jan 08 10:41:43 <Ainulindale> So, repo, yes or not?
Jan 08 10:41:45 <ptitjes> ok
Jan 08 10:41:48 <ptitjes> yes repo
Jan 08 10:41:52 <ptitjes> 'ologicd'
Jan 08 10:42:00 <ptitjes> final name
Jan 08 10:42:02 <Ainulindale> And read the latest blog entry please
Jan 08 10:42:24 <ptitjes> reading it right away
Jan 08 10:43:16 <ptitjes> err the one from 16/12/08
Jan 08 10:43:23 <ptitjes> ?
Jan 08 10:44:11 <Hire> however
Jan 08 10:44:14 <Ainulindale> blog.shr-project.org ptitjes 
Jan 08 10:44:25 <Hire> i prefer if the phonelog was integrated into the dialer 
Jan 08 10:45:04 <Ainulindale> I'd prefer that too
Jan 08 10:45:05 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: this is not in sync with http://www.shr-project.org/trac/blog/
Jan 08 10:45:10 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: I know.
Jan 08 10:45:18 <Ainulindale> The blog on trac will be deactivated.
Jan 08 10:48:55 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: repo is there by the way
Jan 08 10:49:13 <ptitjes> much thanks
Jan 08 10:49:26 <ptitjes> will do initial commit but not now
Jan 08 10:49:27 <ptitjes> :)
Jan 08 10:49:31 <ptitjes> going to work
Jan 08 10:49:34 <ptitjes> bye
Jan 08 10:49:44 <Ainulindale> I already did an initial commit
Jan 08 10:49:47 <Ainulindale> with a README =)
Jan 08 10:50:10 <ptitjes> BTW: will have a hard time to package my stuff because I need to bootstrap XSB on building plateform
Jan 08 10:50:28 <ptitjes> I will need to help to setup the bb recipe
Jan 08 10:50:43 <Ainulindale> We'll do that together then
Jan 08 10:50:49 <ptitjes> so bye
Jan 08 10:55:31 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: nice blog
Jan 08 10:55:33 <dns53> i'm new to using dbus, how do you search for api's and know what the method signature is?
Jan 08 10:57:44 <mirko-paroli> rwhitby : ping
Jan 08 10:57:54 <rwhitby> mirko-paroli: syn|ack
Jan 08 10:58:33 <mirko-paroli> rwhitby did you see my response to your bug relating to the paroli package ?
Jan 08 10:58:51 <rwhitby> mirko-paroli: no, seems that trac doesn't send email on bug state changes
Jan 08 10:59:14 <mirko-paroli> rwhitby I think the prob was/is with the URL i entered
Jan 08 10:59:34 <mirko-paroli> rwhitby i changed it but not sure if it works :(
Jan 08 10:59:58 <rwhitby> mirko: did you commit the change to stable or dev?
Jan 08 11:00:07 <mirko-paroli> rwhitby to dev
Jan 08 11:00:25 <rwhitby> mirko-paroli: I can test it now if you like.
Jan 08 11:00:45 <mirko-paroli> rwhitby would be great, I am afraid that I hold the whole build with my wrong URL 
Jan 08 11:01:14 <rwhitby> do you remember the trac number?
Jan 08 11:01:29 <mirko-paroli> rwhitby for paroli or my commit to dev ?
Jan 08 11:01:44 <rwhitby> the bug report number
Jan 08 11:01:48 <mirko-paroli> ah
Jan 08 11:02:14 <mirko-paroli> 2204
Jan 08 11:03:46 <rwhitby> nope, still fails parsing.
Jan 08 11:03:52 <rwhitby> let me try something ...
Jan 08 11:04:11 <mirko-paroli> ok thanks
Jan 08 11:04:20 <mirko-paroli> I am somewhat lost in OE
Jan 08 11:04:24 <rwhitby> ok, changing the URL to git://.....;protocol=http at least parses, will see if it fetches from that.
Jan 08 11:06:02 <rwhitby> yep, change the first http:// to git://, but leave the protocol=http at the end, and all is then fine.
Jan 08 11:06:14 <mirko-paroli> ah superb
Jan 08 11:06:20 <mirko-paroli> thanks a lot, really a lot :)
Jan 08 11:07:13 <rwhitby> mirko-paroli: do you know if openmoko development is still happening from an OE branch on git.openmoko.org, or has the transfer to git.openembedded.net happened?
Jan 08 11:07:44 <mirko-paroli> rwhitby I think the transfer is coming very soon, in the next couple of days
Jan 08 11:08:08 <mirko-paroli> I was already warned that the move is immanent
Jan 08 11:08:21 <mirko-paroli> but there will be an announcement once it happens
Jan 08 11:08:27 <mirko-paroli> afaik
Jan 08 11:08:34 <rwhitby> ok, thanks.
Jan 08 11:09:11 <rwhitby> which OE image is used by openmoko developers 
Jan 08 11:09:26 <mirko-paroli> I use FSO 4.1
Jan 08 11:09:38 <mirko-paroli> and I think that is going to be the basis
Jan 08 11:09:43 <mirko-paroli> or FSO 4.0
Jan 08 11:11:09 <rwhitby> which image should MokoMakefile build right now, for most effective testing result to be fed back to Openmoko developers?
Jan 08 11:11:57 <mirko-paroli> ehm not sure I can follow ...
Jan 08 11:31:58 <rwhitby> mirko-paroli: should MokoMakefile build openmoko-asu-image, openmoko-base-image, fso-image, or some other image?
Jan 08 11:33:59 <mirko-paroli> to my knowledge, development will happen on the fso image, which will be the basis from now on, once that is ripe, it will become the new testing 
Jan 08 11:34:15 <mirko-paroli> so for now I would say the fso is the basis
Jan 08 11:34:25 <mirko-paroli> until there is the first testing image
Jan 08 11:35:00 <mirko-paroli> at least that is what how I interpreted marek's mail to the community ML
Jan 08 11:42:41 <rwhitby> mirko-paroli: ok, I build fso-testing and fso-unstable on my autobuilder for downloads.freesmartphone.org already, so that's in place today.
Jan 08 11:57:27 * rwhitby is waiting for the rumoured Palm CES announcement, to see if he needs to continue using his Treo650 until something better with a physical keyboard and 320x320 res comes about.
Jan 08 12:20:35 <morphis> stefan_schmidth: you are the one who is working togther with laforge on hacking the glofiish m800?
Jan 08 12:28:19 <stefan_schmidt> morphis: yes
Jan 08 12:30:06 <morphis_> stefan_sc: I am currently very interessted in you project, because it can bring me a smartphone with umts and all other features I want to have - and this with linux
Jan 08 12:32:30 <morphis_> stefan_sc: is it more a fun project? or do you a higher aims?
Jan 08 12:38:14 <Kensan> morphis_: just a sidenote: expansys has rather good prices for X/M800.
Jan 08 12:39:18 <gfather> guys when i compile appmanager2 on ubuntu i get No package 'libopkg' found , any one has info on this ? 
Jan 08 12:42:01 <gfather> the thing is i installed ipgk , but whats wrong  ?
Jan 08 12:45:38 <docscrutinzrflu> stefan_schmidt: what's status of capacitive-keys driver for klofisch?
Jan 08 12:46:12 <stefan_schmidt> morphis_, docscrutinzrflu: mom, in a phonecall atm
Jan 08 12:46:23 <docscrutinzrflu> k np
Jan 08 12:46:53 <Ainulindale> stefan_schmidt, or mickey|zzZZzz
Jan 08 12:47:01 <Ainulindale> I still need info on opimd patches by abraxa
Jan 08 12:47:12 <Ainulindale> Asked that questions everyday for a week, still no answer
Jan 08 12:47:26 <Ainulindale> It's important for SHR, so please give me info.
Jan 08 12:47:31 <Ainulindale> alphaone: ping too
Jan 08 12:48:24 <alphaone> Ainulindale: In confcall right now..
Jan 08 12:48:39 <Ainulindale> I bet you are, but that doesn't prevent me from pinging you for ulterior notice :-)
Jan 08 12:49:15 <Ainulindale> I'm asking questions because it's been two months I prevent people from starting opimd similar software
Jan 08 12:51:19 <alphaone> Ainulindale: Well, it looks like we still don't have the tarball
Jan 08 12:51:52 <alphaone> Ainulindale: So please just go ahead and check out what we have
Jan 08 12:52:17 <alphaone> Because most likely it wont change any time soon :-(
Jan 08 12:52:47 <docscrutinzrflu> alphaone: hi. greetz to telco :)
Jan 08 12:52:48 <alphaone> Ainulindale: opimd is currently unclaimed by the FSO team so please also start meddling around :-)
Jan 08 12:53:03 <alphaone> docscrutinzrflu: thanks :-)
Jan 08 12:54:03 <PaulFertser> alphaone: Hey, Daniel :) I'm sorry, but are you sure that it's an acceptable behaviour that ogsmd gets confused because of missing data from the modem? Sure, without gsm0710muxd bug this behaviour wouldn't be exposed, but don't you think it's still wrong?
Jan 08 12:54:53 <alphaone> PaulFertser: Well, the parser will need to rely on some things.
Jan 08 12:55:17 <alphaone> PaulFertser: What do you propose we do?
Jan 08 12:55:19 <docscrutinzrflu> should have timeout as well
Jan 08 12:55:31 <alphaone> There are timeouts
Jan 08 12:55:49 <docscrutinzrflu> ok then
Jan 08 12:56:05 <PaulFertser> alphaone: but it shouldn't stuck forever, should it? The problem that timeout hadn't worked for some obscure reason.
Jan 08 12:56:18 <alphaone> PaulFertser: One sec
Jan 08 12:57:16 <yoyo> hello
Jan 08 12:57:30 <gfather> hello
Jan 08 12:59:21 <alphaone> PaulFertser: Just talked with mickey. We'll try to reset the parser state when a timeout occurs. That way the parser should recover eventually.
Jan 08 12:59:30 <alphaone> PaulFertser: You okay with that?
Jan 08 12:59:46 <PaulFertser> alphaone: it seems like a good solution :) 
Jan 08 13:00:21 <PaulFertser> alphaone: thank you for your efforts :)
Jan 08 13:00:28 <Ainulindale> alphaone: well I don't understand why nobody told that earlier
Jan 08 13:00:45 <Ainulindale> alphaone: would it be possible to know what's working in opimd? And how to use it?
Jan 08 13:02:13 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: we should get the new gui into testing *now* 
Jan 08 13:02:26 <mrmoku> after that we can start playing with frameworkd-devel and opimd in unstable
Jan 08 13:03:16 <stefan_schmidt> Ainulindale: Beacuse abraxa promised us to deliver some more stuff which did not happen yet and we think that we need to move forward now anyway. It is just to much pain for you.
Jan 08 13:03:35 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: Agreed
Jan 08 13:03:41 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: I already told quickdev that
Jan 08 13:03:43 <stefan_schmidt> Ainulindale: Also mickey time for it is not as much as he hoped as ogsmd needs some more bug fixing
Jan 08 13:03:43 <Ainulindale> Would you do the honors?
Jan 08 13:03:53 <stefan_schmidt> Ainulindale: hi, btw :)
Jan 08 13:04:08 <Ainulindale> stefan_schmidt: Yeah but I'm a bit pissed off by the way nobody answered to that simple question before
Jan 08 13:04:12 <Ainulindale> Not in a bad or angry way
Jan 08 13:04:24 <Ainulindale> It's just that we lose so much time just because of that simple stuff
Jan 08 13:04:29 <Ainulindale> +o
Jan 08 13:04:55 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: Have to eat now... After that I will try to build an unstable with frameworkd-devel locally
Jan 08 13:05:05 <Ainulindale> stefan_schmidt: I mean, we have a mailing list, people are working on top of frameworkd, it seems to me crucial to keep everyone of us in touch with the whereabouts of the project
Jan 08 13:05:13 <mrmoku> and if quickdev shows up wi force him to set the correct srcrevs and build a new testing ;)
Jan 08 13:05:17 <mrmoku> -i+e
Jan 08 13:06:07 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: on thing we need is sombody branching lfg
Jan 08 13:06:15 <mrmoku> +e
Jan 08 13:06:29 <alphaone> Ainulindale: Well, we hoped that we'd get that tarball
Jan 08 13:06:52 <Ainulindale> alphaone: I know
Jan 08 13:07:00 <Ainulindale> alphaone: But even that information would have been enough to me :-)
Jan 08 13:07:07 * mrmoku is off for nutrition now
Jan 08 13:07:08 <Ainulindale> Now I have to face the angry mobs of the shr-devel list :-)
Jan 08 13:07:21 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: I'll ask mickey|zzZZzz to give you commit access if you're willing to help with that
Jan 08 13:07:39 <alphaone> And most of us were busy elsewhere so it's not that we were aware of the tarball not being there every day.
Jan 08 13:07:39 <Ainulindale> alphaone: because initially we were willing to wait for opimd integration
Jan 08 13:07:47 <Ainulindale> alphaone: and now opimd is kind of synonym of duke nukem forever :-)
Jan 08 13:07:53 <alphaone> Ainulindale: Yeah, it sucks how it went, I agree
Jan 08 13:07:59 <alphaone> Heh
Jan 08 13:08:15 <Ainulindale> alphaone: so, simple facts, simple answers needed
Jan 08 13:08:21 <Ainulindale> What's working? What's missing?
Jan 08 13:08:23 <Ainulindale> How to make it work?
Jan 08 13:08:28 <Ainulindale> Could we take that over?
Jan 08 13:08:37 <Ainulindale> (to devel on it that is)
Jan 08 13:08:45 <Ainulindale> As told before I'm willing to work on opimd
Jan 08 13:09:00 <stefan_schmidt> Ainulindale: (devel) go ahead
Jan 08 13:09:17 <stefan_schmidt> Ainulindale: SIM and flat-file contacts should work
Jan 08 13:09:34 <Ainulindale> stefan_schmidt: Well for that I'd have to know what to start with, and what's working, and how to make it work
Jan 08 13:09:36 <stefan_schmidt> Ainulindale: I'll ping mickey to send a mail out with what he tested so far
Jan 08 13:09:51 <Ainulindale> If I have unit tests I can start, I know at least two people interested in that too
Jan 08 13:10:36 <stefan_schmidt> Ainulindale: great thanks. We now that the opimd stuff is really sucking
Jan 08 13:10:54 <alphaone> Ainulindale: You could try to ask charlie. He is (was) familiar with opimd as well
Jan 08 13:10:55 <stefan_schmidt> Ainulindale: Also missing communication from our side :(
Jan 08 13:11:16 <Ainulindale> stefan_schmidt: well
Jan 08 13:11:30 <Ainulindale> A first thing to do would be to do everything in your power to answer mails to the ML
Jan 08 13:11:36 <Ainulindale> Great ideas came through the past month
Jan 08 13:11:38 <Ainulindale> I saw almost no answer
Jan 08 13:11:48 <Ainulindale> That's bad, IMHO
Jan 08 13:14:04 <Ainulindale> (For example ptitjes idea)
Jan 08 13:15:38 <Ainulindale> When I say it's bad by the way
Jan 08 13:15:46 <Ainulindale> That's because it's as if we were talking to OM. Inc. :-)
Jan 08 13:15:57 <Ainulindale> So it needs clarifying
Jan 08 13:16:30 <stefan_schmidt> Ainulindale: We are slacking. Let me go through them on the WE an poke my collegues
Jan 08 13:17:29 <Ainulindale> stefan_schmidt: well in fact regarding ptitjes idea
Jan 08 13:17:33 <Ainulindale> I'm sure it's worth something
Jan 08 13:17:46 <Ainulindale> And it's been two weeks I've been trying to keep him from working on it without your agreement
Jan 08 13:17:51 <Ainulindale> And I'm not able to do that anymore
Jan 08 13:17:53 <stefan_schmidt> Ainulindale: Which was that?
Jan 08 13:17:59 <Ainulindale> So he started working on that and will commit it to SHR
Jan 08 13:18:02 <stefan_schmidt> Ainulindale: You should not need, I agree
Jan 08 13:18:04 <Ainulindale> A rule processing engine in vala
Jan 08 13:18:12 <Ainulindale> Which will in the end replace oeventsd
Jan 08 13:18:18 <stefan_schmidt> Ainulindale: ok, noted and will poke around
Jan 08 13:18:19 <Ainulindale> Because, sad to say, we think oeventsd in its form is crap
Jan 08 13:18:26 <Ainulindale> I already mailed about that a while ago
Jan 08 13:18:28 <Ainulindale> I had no answer
Jan 08 13:18:36 <Ainulindale> Even talked about that with mickeyl here
Jan 08 13:18:48 <Ainulindale> It's the only piece incoherent with frameworkd IMHO
Jan 08 13:19:56 <Ainulindale> stefan_schmidt: the goal of its stuff was to offer the opportunity to plug inferences system (rules) dynamically and in a coherent way
Jan 08 13:20:07 <Ainulindale> And to use a simple rules.d system too
Jan 08 13:20:41 <alphaone> Ainulindale: Most of us agree that oeventsd is crap.
Jan 08 13:21:01 <alphaone> But we're not going to touch it yet.
Jan 08 13:21:30 <alphaone> Opening one Box of Pandorra per Milestone is enough :-)
Jan 08 13:21:43 <Ainulindale> Well let's say that ptitjes' work is already doing that
Jan 08 13:21:53 <Ainulindale> I'll make a demo for me this week-endn
Jan 08 13:21:54 <Ainulindale> -n
Jan 08 13:22:01 <Ainulindale> s/I'll/He'll/
Jan 08 13:22:40 <Ainulindale> http://www.mail-archive.com/smartphones-standards@linuxtogo.org/msg00200.html <= stefan_schmidt, alphaone 
Jan 08 13:22:45 <Ainulindale> There's also that
Jan 08 13:23:03 <Ainulindale> Even though here there are two different things
Jan 08 13:24:15 <stefan_schmidt> Ainulindale: ok, I'll go through the mails, the WE, answer where info from me is needed and give some status update what I'm working on
Jan 08 13:24:44 <Ainulindale> stefan_schmidt: I'm also saying that in order for you not to appear as elderly sorcerers in your ivory tower
Jan 08 13:24:49 <Ainulindale> Because that's how it feels right now :-)
Jan 08 13:24:59 <Ainulindale> We have no feedback on what we say on userland :-)
Jan 08 13:25:03 <Ainulindale> or standard
Jan 08 13:25:39 <Ainulindale> (Sorry to say that, that's how I feel about that, it's not meant to be harsh :-) )
Jan 08 13:25:54 <stefan_schmidt> Ainulindale: Yes, _exactly_ this we just discussed in the goal. We need to change again. Will work on this
Jan 08 13:26:20 <Ainulindale> Exactly this?
Jan 08 13:26:21 <stefan_schmidt> Ainulindale: Tell us about such feels.
Jan 08 13:26:52 <stefan_schmidt> Ainulindale: yes, exactly. You brought it up and we speaked about it
Jan 08 13:27:00 <Ainulindale> what? :-)
Jan 08 13:27:04 <stefan_schmidt> heh
Jan 08 13:27:07 <Ainulindale> (I'm not following you here)
Jan 08 13:27:16 <Ainulindale> What did I bring up?
Jan 08 13:27:16 <stefan_schmidt> That we sucked on communication what we are doing lately
Jan 08 13:27:19 <Ainulindale> Ah ok :-)
Jan 08 13:27:22 <Ainulindale> Well yes
Jan 08 13:27:26 <Ainulindale> But don't worry
Jan 08 13:27:28 <Ainulindale> SHR sucks too
Jan 08 13:27:33 <Ainulindale> That's why I'm trying to build a blog
Jan 08 13:27:45 <Ainulindale> Because even though we're short staffed, as you are
Jan 08 13:27:50 <Ainulindale> We're still a community project
Jan 08 13:27:56 <Ainulindale> If we don't act as if people can change things
Jan 08 13:28:05 <Ainulindale> Then we're a dictatorship under yours, truly :-)
Jan 08 13:28:23 <Ainulindale> That's why I'm warning you about
Jan 08 13:28:25 <stefan_schmidt> And we need like to see us as community project, too. Thought we know that there are problems with that
Jan 08 13:28:45 <Ainulindale> Problems?
Jan 08 13:28:54 <stefan_schmidt> Only friendly dictatorship. ;)
Jan 08 13:29:08 <Ainulindale> Heh
Jan 08 13:29:29 <Ainulindale> stefan_schmidt: IMHO meetings are not enough
Jan 08 13:29:30 <stefan_schmidt> Ainulindale: Well, we have meetings, phone calls, requests from OM. Not all can go through mail. We need to update all, etc..
Jan 08 13:29:46 <Ainulindale> Your meetings conclusions should be posted on standards and heavily talked about
Jan 08 13:30:11 <stefan_schmidt> I don't worry about people sending us patches. That happens and is great. I worry more about building a complete developer community around FSO
Jan 08 13:30:11 <Ainulindale> Or we (SHR) should be able to work with you in these "meetings"
Jan 08 13:30:28 <stefan_schmidt> Ainulindale: That's why I posted meetings the last two times
Jan 08 13:30:29 <Ainulindale> Because we depend on you, your work
Jan 08 13:30:35 <Ainulindale> stefan_schmidt: that's too short :-)
Jan 08 13:30:42 <Ainulindale> You need to ask questions, views
Jan 08 13:30:49 <Ainulindale> And to answer to arguments :-)
Jan 08 13:30:59 <Ainulindale> My last two mails almost went to /dev/null
Jan 08 13:31:24 <stefan_schmidt> Ainulindale: What about the wiki page and announce mail that we will have a meeting and people can bring in stuff that needs discussion?
Jan 08 13:31:24 <Ainulindale> But I'm a pain in the ass, so I'll keep bothering you about my views :-)
Jan 08 13:31:32 <Ainulindale> stefan_schmidt: I did bring stuff
Jan 08 13:31:38 <Ainulindale> But I had no part on the decision process
Jan 08 13:31:44 <Ainulindale> And that goes against the community view :-)
Jan 08 13:32:03 <Ainulindale> I don't tell you that everyone should say you what they think about this or that
Jan 08 13:32:10 <Ainulindale> But they should be given the opportunity to do so
Jan 08 13:32:14 <Ainulindale> No matter what you (the team) decide in the end
Jan 08 13:32:25 <Ainulindale> ANd I just don't feel as if it were the case
Jan 08 13:32:38 <Ainulindale> And I know that's not intented that way because I talk with you guys
Jan 08 13:32:45 <Ainulindale> s/tent/tend/
Jan 08 13:32:45 <bzzbot> Ainulindale meant: And I know that's not intended that way because I talk with you guys
Jan 08 13:33:21 <Ainulindale> But for people who're not here, for people who don't know you as much, that may look as something not community driven
Jan 08 13:33:36 <Ainulindale> (I'm particularily talking about ptitjes here)
Jan 08 13:33:54 <Kensan> Maybe the "procedure" should be a bit more formal?
Jan 08 13:33:55 <Ainulindale> (He has great ideas, I'm sure he's able, that's something to consider)
Jan 08 13:34:10 <Ainulindale> Kensan: let's not hide behind procedures :-)
Jan 08 13:34:20 <stefan_schmidt> Ainulindale: I see
Jan 08 13:34:20 <Kensan> How to gather questions/suggestions/comments and propose them to FSO core team.
Jan 08 13:34:29 <Ainulindale> stefan_schmidt: but please keep in mind
Jan 08 13:34:38 <Ainulindale> I tell you that in a friendly way
Jan 08 13:34:44 <Ainulindale> I have no right to tell you what to do and how to do it :-)
Jan 08 13:34:49 <stefan_schmidt> Ainulindale: I'll to keep this in mind. It's a slow process tho
Jan 08 13:34:51 <Ainulindale> It's just my way to see things :-)
Jan 08 13:34:52 <Kensan> Ainulindale: I am not talking about strict formalized stuff but something better than "I'll try to catch one of the team members on irc and ping them..."
Jan 08 13:35:04 <Ainulindale> Kensan: well the ML is there for that
Jan 08 13:35:09 <stefan_schmidt> Ainulindale: That's ok. Your feedback is appreciated
Jan 08 13:35:10 <Ainulindale> For discussions
Jan 08 13:35:17 <Ainulindale> stefan_schmidt: I hope so :-)
Jan 08 13:35:34 <Ainulindale> stefan_schmidt: Else I'll send you an envelope with sugar to make you quake with fear
Jan 08 13:35:44 <stefan_schmidt> heh
Jan 08 13:35:57 <Kensan> Ainulindale: yes for discussions but if there's issues the community thinks the core team should take into consideration these proposals should be made available to them in a manner where they can e.g. load a wikipage and quickly talk over the points there presented.
Jan 08 13:36:04 <Ainulindale> (By the way I'm currently in a conference call with Oracle)
Jan 08 13:36:07 <stefan_schmidt> ok,  now need to finish my crypto homework. Will be back later in the evening
Jan 08 13:36:10 <Ainulindale> (See how I'm attending? :-p)
Jan 08 13:36:18 <Kensan> Ainulindale: without crwaling through the ML during the conf-call for example.
Jan 08 13:36:34 <Ainulindale> Kensan: well IMHO someone in the team should handle that
Jan 08 13:36:56 <Ainulindale> Synthetize discussions on the ML and deliver them in a short summary understandable and arguable
Jan 08 13:37:01 <Ainulindale> That's what I'm trying to do on shr-devel at times
Jan 08 13:37:06 <Ainulindale> (it's boring)
Jan 08 13:37:11 <Kensan> Ainulindale: it's about an "interface" how and in what "format" such infos from the community is going forth and back between the team and the community.
Jan 08 13:37:35 <Ainulindale> Kensan: if the project is community driven
Jan 08 13:37:44 <Ainulindale> Then stop saying that team != community
Jan 08 13:37:44 <Kensan> Ainulindale: maybe simply agree on a specific wiki-page where these synthesized discussions are written down.
Jan 08 13:37:46 <Ainulindale> That's the first thing to do :-)
Jan 08 13:38:04 <Ainulindale> There are people in the core team, they are brought forth by the community and they depend on the community
Jan 08 13:38:10 <Ainulindale> The community depends on the team aswell
Jan 08 13:38:18 <Kensan> Ainulindale: I say team to differntiate between shr-community and fso-community
Jan 08 13:38:32 <Ainulindale> That's the same community in the end
Jan 08 13:38:42 <Ainulindale> Slightly reduced for fso if we consider it as the strict framework
Jan 08 13:38:48 <Kensan> stefan_schmidt: what is your assignment about?
Jan 08 13:39:03 <Ainulindale> "The guy to blame" :-)
Jan 08 13:39:10 <Kensan> Ainulindale: not everyone who is interested in fso is also interested in shr. They overlap to a big part but not 100%.
Jan 08 13:39:11 <alphaone> yes! :-)
Jan 08 13:39:22 <stefan_schmidt> Kensan: breaking RSA with a short public key and with block length of 1
Jan 08 13:39:25 <Kensan> Ainulindale: and they will diverge in the future I hope since both of them should grow
Jan 08 13:39:32 <Kensan> stefan_schmidt: ah ic :)
Jan 08 13:39:35 <Ainulindale> Kensan: I know, but you get what I mean
Jan 08 13:39:52 <Kensan> Ainulindale: it's the same "eco-system" so to speak
Jan 08 13:40:13 <Ainulindale> Indeed
Jan 08 13:40:42 <Kensan> Ainulindale: well all I am saying is, maybe both communities should agree on simple practical things like the wiki-page where requests/questions etc are exchanged so they don't get lost.
Jan 08 13:41:02 <Ainulindale> THe mail doesn't get lost either
Jan 08 13:41:07 <Ainulindale> It's just that nobody talk about it
Jan 08 13:41:12 <Ainulindale> Ideas are sent, and forgotten
Jan 08 13:41:14 <Ainulindale> That's the problem IMHO
Jan 08 13:41:18 <Kensan> Ainulindale: it's a pain if everybody has to subscribe to all other project mls simply to get the gist of what's going on etc.
Jan 08 13:41:26 <Ainulindale> Kensan: mail or not
Jan 08 13:41:28 <Ainulindale> If there is no talk
Jan 08 13:41:31 <Ainulindale> There is no community :m-)
Jan 08 13:41:34 <Ainulindale> -m
Jan 08 13:41:41 <Kensan> Ainulindale: yes, that's because things get lost/dropped.
Jan 08 13:41:56 <Ainulindale> I disagree
Jan 08 13:42:03 <Ainulindale> That's because people doesn't have time :-)
Jan 08 13:42:16 <alphaone> Time is a major factor, yeah
Jan 08 13:42:26 <alphaone> or rather a minor...
Jan 08 13:42:37 <Kensan> Ainulindale: but if there's an agreement that open points/questions are held at a specific place then people can go there from time to time
Jan 08 13:43:04 <Kensan> Ainulindale: yes and because people are swamped they say: I'll take care of this in a minute and then forget about it -> it get's lost.
Jan 08 13:43:10 <PaulFertser> Kensan: there's also gmane via NNTP for those who doesn't want to subscribe.
Jan 08 13:44:11 <Kensan> PaulFertser: yes, but it's a hassle. Somebody has to point you to the specific mails. Compare that to one wikipage where all open points/questions at a given time are lined up possibly with simple links to the actualy mails on the mls.
Jan 08 13:44:34 <Kensan> My point is to make it very easily accesible: single point of info.
Jan 08 13:45:18 <Kensan> the info is all out there, that's not the problem. Making it readily accesible is key IMHO.
Jan 08 13:45:25 <Ainulindale> Well I agree this is necessary, I just say this isn't all of what would be necessary to fix the problem :-)
Jan 08 13:45:30 <PaulFertser> Kensan: I agree with Ainulindale. If there's a community, mailing list is usually considered the most comfortable way. If there's no community, nothing helps.
Jan 08 13:45:39 <Kensan> Ainulindale: yeah sure, but it's a start I think.
Jan 08 13:45:40 <Ainulindale> Finding time to answer, talk, and discuss, is to me the first priority
Jan 08 13:45:57 <Ainulindale> Kensan: well to me the start is to be able to talk :-)
Jan 08 13:46:07 <Ainulindale> Because if you send your idea to the ML right now
Jan 08 13:46:11 <Ainulindale> My bet is nobody will answer :-p
Jan 08 13:46:33 <Kensan> Ainulindale: true but having such a single point will also raise the motivation on either side since when you have 10 minutes of spare time you can quickly take a look at that site and maybe find a quick question to answer/think about.
Jan 08 13:47:27 <Kensan> alphaone: hi btw :)
Jan 08 13:47:34 <alphaone> hi Kensan 
Jan 08 13:47:52 <Ainulindale> alphaone, stefan_schmidt 
Jan 08 13:47:54 <Ainulindale> by the way
Jan 08 13:47:56 <Ainulindale> new post on the shr blog
Jan 08 13:47:59 <Ainulindale> blog.shr-project.org
Jan 08 13:48:03 <Ainulindale> if you're interested in what we want to do :-)
Jan 08 13:49:29 <Kensan> PaulFertser: yes MLs are very good for discussion but the issue I am talking about is communicating questions/concerns from within that community to an "outside entity" (shr-community<->fso-coomunity) without requiring a member of that "outside entity" to actuall participate in that community.
Jan 08 13:49:35 <PaulFertser> Kensan: are you convinced now that communication between FSO and SHR sucked/suckes?
Jan 08 13:49:48 <alphaone> Ainulindale: Thanks. Added the feed in liferea
Jan 08 13:49:57 <Ainulindale> we're not talking about SHR / FSO comm
Jan 08 13:50:02 <Ainulindale> We're talking about intra FSO comm
Jan 08 13:50:05 <Ainulindale> I'm a member of the FSO community
Jan 08 13:50:09 <Ainulindale> I'm a dev of the FSO community
Jan 08 13:50:13 <Ainulindale> And I have no idea what people do these days
Jan 08 13:50:17 <Ainulindale> I find that unbearable, so to speak
Jan 08 13:50:27 <Ainulindale> Because my work depends directly on that
Jan 08 13:50:34 <PaulFertser> So, the situation's even worse than i assumed ;)
Jan 08 13:50:36 <Kensan> Ainulindale: ok, then you are right.
Jan 08 13:50:47 <Ainulindale> There's no need to FSO / SHR comm so to speak
Jan 08 13:50:56 <Kensan> Ainulindale: well I hope there will be!
Jan 08 13:50:58 <Ainulindale> there is a need to communicate between the developers of the SHR community and FSO
Jan 08 13:51:30 <Kensan> Ainulindale: I hope both communities will grow :)
Jan 08 13:51:35 <Ainulindale> I hope too
Jan 08 13:51:39 <Ainulindale> But we truly need to release now
Jan 08 13:51:44 <Kensan> PaulFertser: I see your point now.
Jan 08 13:51:46 <Ainulindale> I can't bear to release incomplete work
Jan 08 13:51:52 <Ainulindale> I don't believe in release often
Jan 08 13:51:58 <Ainulindale> (there's a limit of course)
Jan 08 13:52:09 <Kensan> Ainulindale: well, when is it ever "finished"? ;)
Jan 08 13:52:10 <Ainulindale> It's been a 6 month WIP now
Jan 08 13:52:20 <Ainulindale> Kensan: when the scope we decided on as basic features is covered
Jan 08 13:52:38 <Ainulindale> And it is covered now
Jan 08 13:52:40 <Ainulindale> We just have to fix stuff
Jan 08 13:52:43 <Ainulindale> raster: ping
Jan 08 13:52:48 <Ainulindale> Kensan: read the blog entry :-)
Jan 08 13:52:49 <raster> pong
Jan 08 13:53:00 <Ainulindale> raster: recent build working with dictionnary or not? :-)
Jan 08 13:53:15 <Ainulindale> (at a decent speed)
Jan 08 13:53:16 <raster> its slow
Jan 08 13:53:18 <raster> nup
Jan 08 13:53:20 <Ainulindale> Damn
Jan 08 13:53:22 <raster> i havent touched it lately
Jan 08 13:53:30 <Ainulindale> That will prevent our release :-/
Jan 08 13:54:06 <raster> florian said he's looking at it
Jan 08 13:54:24 <Ainulindale> Nice, please keep me in touch
Jan 08 13:54:31 <dolf1074> Ainulindale: don't release yet, there is a bug
Jan 08 13:54:49 <Kensan> dolf1074: there's more than one, trust me ;)
Jan 08 13:54:51 <dolf1074> the screen of to much messages isn't going properly (failing)
Jan 08 13:54:56 <Kensan> there always is *sigh*
Jan 08 13:55:08 <dolf1074> But this one is a big one and is easily solvable
Jan 08 13:55:16 <alphaone> Ainulindale: communication is working fine, the people aren't doing anything :-)
Jan 08 13:55:23 <dolf1074> (and I'm already doing ;) )
Jan 08 13:55:35 <Ainulindale> alphaone: heh
Jan 08 13:55:38 <Kensan> alphaone: that's right, you lazy ass!
Jan 08 13:55:42 <Kensan> *harharr*
Jan 08 13:56:01 * Kensan hides
Jan 08 13:57:06 <Ainulindale> Damn mickey|zzZZzz just killed me
Jan 08 13:57:08 <Ainulindale> He bumped the kernel
Jan 08 13:57:19 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: you have time I hope? :-)
Jan 08 13:58:20 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: in about 5 min
Jan 08 13:58:31 <mrmoku> have to make a phone call first
Jan 08 13:58:46 <Ainulindale> No problem :-p
Jan 08 14:01:23 <mrmoku> nobody home :-)
Jan 08 14:01:51 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: who else is using lfg?
Jan 08 14:03:05 <dolf1074> Ainulindale: small question, how can I upgrade my libframeworkd-glib in my bitbake installation?
Jan 08 14:04:20 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: No idea
Jan 08 14:04:28 <Ainulindale> dolf1074: what do you mean?
Jan 08 14:04:53 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: the omnewrotate guy wants to
Jan 08 14:05:06 <dolf1074> I still have the old version of libframeworkd-glib in my build system and now I'm trying to compile the new version of ophonekitd and I get errors (obviously)
Jan 08 14:05:10 <dolf1074> but how can I resolve that
Jan 08 14:05:22 <Ainulindale> bitbake -c clean libframeworkd-glib; bitbake libframeworkd-glib 
Jan 08 14:05:27 <Ainulindale> but it should be done automatically
Jan 08 14:06:10 <dolf1074> I already tried clean
Jan 08 14:06:21 <Kensan> Ainulindale: bumped the kernel to .28?
Jan 08 14:06:35 <Ainulindale> Apparently
Jan 08 14:06:39 <mrmoku> Kensan: nop
Jan 08 14:06:46 <Ainulindale> dolf1074: that's weird then
Jan 08 14:07:01 <Ainulindale> Can't help you here, I'm in a call conference with a client
Jan 08 14:07:16 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: who is it? (omnewrotate)
Jan 08 14:07:26 <Kensan> mrmoku: what's that?
Jan 08 14:07:43 <mrmoku> Kensan: not bumped to .28
Jan 08 14:07:56 * mrmoku was anwsering for Ainulindale, sorry ;)
Jan 08 14:08:52 <Kensan> mrmoku: hm but it seems so...
Jan 08 14:09:17 <mrmoku> Kensan: for SHR? that would mean to switch to frameworkd-devel...
Jan 08 14:09:19 <dolf1074> Ainulindale: okay, solve it by doing mrproper ;)
Jan 08 14:09:37 <mrmoku> I read that fso wants to switch and someday drop support for old kernels
Jan 08 14:09:42 <Kensan> mrmoku: never mind.
Jan 08 14:10:08 <dolf1074> Ainulindale: and now everything is fucked up, http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/ is down :(
Jan 08 14:10:11 <Kensan> mrmoku: I am clueless and lunatic-ish *heh*
Jan 08 14:10:25 <mrmoku> Kensan: np, me too :-)
Jan 08 14:10:56 <Kensan> ah nice, last commit to stable kernel has no commit msg :(
Jan 08 14:14:36 <mrmoku> Kensan: now I see... we might inherit .28 by OE updates?
Jan 08 14:18:47 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: yes
Jan 08 14:19:06 <mrmoku> ouch
Jan 08 14:19:38 <mrmoku> well, I'm looking forward to using the new kernel and new frameworkd... but for a stable release anytime soon this is BAD
Jan 08 14:20:07 <Ainulindale> the new kernel is not bad as is
Jan 08 14:20:10 <Ainulindale> as we release with MS5
Jan 08 14:20:12 <Ainulindale> I think
Jan 08 14:20:16 <Ainulindale> +'ll
Jan 08 14:20:34 <mrmoku> that would be end of month IIRC
Jan 08 14:20:45 <Kensan> Ainulindale: mickey bumped the srcrev to latest stable which is .24
Jan 08 14:22:29 <Ainulindale> 14:55:52 < CIA-1> Michael 'Mickey' Lauer <mickey@vanille-media.de> org.openembedded.dev * r46e900cd3d openembedded.git/ (10 files in 3 dirs):
Jan 08 14:22:32 <Ainulindale> 14:55:55 < CIA-1> linux-openmoko-2.6.28_git: new recipe; this is the new stable kernel for om-gta[01|02]
Jan 08 14:23:54 <Kensan> Ainulindale: yes but the default kernel bb should still be linux-openmoko-2.6.24_git since that was not changed in that commit.
Jan 08 14:25:05 <Ainulindale> err
Jan 08 14:25:06 <Ainulindale> 14:55:57 < CIA-1> sane-srcrevs.inc: bump linux-openmoko for 2.6.28
Jan 08 14:32:31 <mrmoku> yep, it's building andy-tracking after updating OE
Jan 08 14:36:03 <Ainulindale> welcome to the nightmare
Jan 08 14:37:51 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: can't we overwrite that?
Jan 08 14:38:21 <Ainulindale> "Yes we can!"
Jan 08 14:38:28 <Ainulindale> But we should test the kernel first
Jan 08 14:38:41 <Ainulindale> I doubt mickey|zzZZzz put it there out of sheer fun
Jan 08 14:39:30 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: but maybe because Om wants him to?
Jan 08 14:39:54 <Ainulindale> I have no idea, and that's not my business :-)
Jan 08 14:40:26 <Ainulindale> Though mickey|zzZZzz it would be great to have your thoughts about andy tracking (this rev)
Jan 08 14:40:31 <mrmoku> neither mine ;) and I'm in favour of the new kernel... just the point in time is suboptimal for shr...
Jan 08 14:40:48 <PaulFertser> Consipiracy again! Yeah!
Jan 08 14:40:48 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: we can delay for a week for the kernel
Jan 08 14:40:59 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: and another for raster? :p
Jan 08 14:41:12 <Ainulindale> No, I don't think we can do that
Jan 08 14:41:19 <Ainulindale> So I think we'll disable the dictionnary
Jan 08 14:41:49 <Ainulindale> (if the bug is not tackled by then)
Jan 08 14:41:59 <mrmoku> ok, so we switch to frameworkd-devel immediately...
Jan 08 14:42:13 <Ainulindale> Hey, a living mickeyl 
Jan 08 14:42:16 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: Why?
Jan 08 14:42:23 <mrmoku> for the new kernel?
Jan 08 14:42:42 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: well let's wait for mickeyl's word
Jan 08 14:44:36 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: ping or not ping then?
Jan 08 14:45:08 <mickeyl> im here
Jan 08 14:45:11 <mickeyl> 5secs
Jan 08 14:45:16 <mickeyl> phone
Jan 08 14:45:27 <Ainulindale> You're too busy
Jan 08 14:45:31 <Ainulindale> Buy some extra time :-)
Jan 08 14:48:50 <mickeyl> k
Jan 08 14:49:00 <mickeyl> ok, so my assassement wrt. 2.6.28
Jan 08 14:49:16 <mickeyl> working so far:
Jan 08 14:49:17 <mickeyl> core
Jan 08 14:49:19 <mickeyl> gsm
Jan 08 14:49:21 <mickeyl> gps
Jan 08 14:49:28 <mickeyl> suspend/resume (very reliable)
Jan 08 14:49:39 <mickeyl> did not test:
Jan 08 14:49:41 <mickeyl> wifi
Jan 08 14:49:41 <mickeyl> bt
Jan 08 14:49:42 <mickeyl> accel
Jan 08 14:49:59 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: is frameworkd usable against it?
Jan 08 14:50:04 <Ainulindale> Or should we switch to devel?
Jan 08 14:50:05 <mickeyl> yes, since long
Jan 08 14:50:15 <mickeyl> i have also switched that btw.
Jan 08 14:50:15 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: I meant that wrt devel/non-devel
Jan 08 14:50:23 <mickeyl> frameworkd builds now from master, which is the new stabilization branch
Jan 08 14:50:28 <mickeyl> for ms5
Jan 08 14:50:34 <Ainulindale> Ok then
Jan 08 14:50:42 <Ainulindale> I didn't see a mail about that :-)
Jan 08 14:50:50 <mickeyl> there was none
Jan 08 14:50:53 <Ainulindale> (I know)
Jan 08 14:50:53 <mickeyl> i just did the switch
Jan 08 14:51:06 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: this is just related to the discussion I had with stefan_schmidt :-)
Jan 08 14:51:09 <mickeyl> k
Jan 08 14:51:21 <Ainulindale> Just giving food for thoughts :-)
Jan 08 14:51:32 <Ainulindale> I told him we needed more talks, more information about FSO
Jan 08 14:51:38 <Ainulindale> (That's just my feeling, again)
Jan 08 14:51:50 <mickeyl> yes, he brought that up with me
Jan 08 14:51:52 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: I feel as if smartphone-* are useless today
Jan 08 14:52:00 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: and I'll tell you the same thing I told him
Jan 08 14:52:07 <Ainulindale> I'm not telling that to be a pain in the ass or to be harsh
Jan 08 14:52:25 <Ainulindale> I just think that to build a true community around FSO, we need to talk, discuss, exchange, and be informed
Jan 08 14:52:44 <Ainulindale> And unfortunately smartphone-* are dead :-/
Jan 08 14:52:47 <mickeyl> hmm
Jan 08 14:52:52 <mickeyl> guess you're on different lists
Jan 08 14:52:56 <mickeyl> my smartphone* are vivid
Jan 08 14:53:03 <Ainulindale> Well mine aren't :-):
Jan 08 14:53:10 <Ainulindale> My last two mails went to the bin :-)
Jan 08 14:53:11 <mickeyl> a matter of perspective maybe
Jan 08 14:53:20 <mickeyl> which ones?
Jan 08 14:53:30 <Ainulindale> About oeventsd particularily IIRC
Jan 08 14:53:34 <Ainulindale> ptitjes mail also went to bin
Jan 08 14:53:41 <Ainulindale> Although I think his idea was worth talking about
Jan 08 14:53:56 <mickeyl> hmm
Jan 08 14:53:57 <Ainulindale> And typically for these matters of versioning and such
Jan 08 14:54:03 <Ainulindale> I think information is really important for us (SHR guys)
Jan 08 14:54:10 <Ainulindale> But again, that's only my opinion
Jan 08 14:54:24 <Ainulindale> I just don't want to have to poke someone each time I need information
Jan 08 14:54:25 <mickeyl> well, one thing you have to live with is the speed of replies
Jan 08 14:54:31 <mickeyl> check the archives
Jan 08 14:54:34 <mickeyl> mails get answered
Jan 08 14:54:38 <mickeyl> sometimes it takes long
Jan 08 14:54:47 <mickeyl> sometimes it's quick
Jan 08 14:54:50 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: Well, my mail about oeventsd was some months ago you know :-)
Jan 08 14:54:52 <Ainulindale> He never got answered
Jan 08 14:55:05 <Ainulindale> s/He/It/
Jan 08 14:55:05 <bzzbot> Ainulindale meant: It never got answered
Jan 08 14:55:07 <mickeyl> guess why
Jan 08 14:55:12 <mickeyl> a) the one in charge left
Jan 08 14:55:15 <mickeyl> b) no one picked up since then
Jan 08 14:55:22 <Ainulindale> I know that mickeyl 
Jan 08 14:55:26 <Ainulindale> And I know this isn't easy for you
Jan 08 14:55:31 <Ainulindale> But that's why I think we need to talk about this
Jan 08 14:55:38 <Ainulindale> The community is there to help, IMHO
Jan 08 14:55:42 <mickeyl> i just took the lion's share of yesterday to pick up some loose ends
Jan 08 14:55:53 <Ainulindale> (and for ptitjes mail it's been three weeks already)
Jan 08 14:56:05 <Ainulindale> (it was about opimd... *whistle* :-) )
Jan 08 14:56:11 <Ainulindale> and some logic rule processing
Jan 08 14:56:26 <mickeyl> yes
Jan 08 14:56:31 <mickeyl> again subsystems without active maintainer atm.
Jan 08 14:56:53 <Ainulindale> well 
Jan 08 14:56:59 <Ainulindale> there's no libframeworkd-phonegui-gtk maintainer
Jan 08 14:57:08 <Ainulindale> That doesn't prevent me from answering mail about it, at least saying that :-)
Jan 08 14:57:15 <Ainulindale> Or for ideas about it :-)
Jan 08 14:57:21 <mickeyl> well, i don't see a point in sending regular
Jan 08 14:57:29 <mickeyl> "your mail got received, it's in the queue"
Jan 08 14:57:36 <mickeyl> until i had the time to think and answer
Jan 08 14:57:50 <Ainulindale> That's the problem I'm pointint out you know
Jan 08 14:57:52 <Ainulindale> *time*
Jan 08 14:58:06 <Ainulindale> My point is, I spend a lot of time answering to people about SHR stuff
Jan 08 14:58:15 <Ainulindale> I know this is stopping me from doing actual useful stuff
Jan 08 14:58:22 <Ainulindale> And that's why I ask for help
Jan 08 14:58:50 <Ainulindale> But when there is discussion about such important issues as opimd is
Jan 08 14:58:55 <Ainulindale> I think it is worth the time of someone
Jan 08 14:59:05 <Ainulindale> (Again, my opinion)
Jan 08 14:59:15 <Ainulindale> (Please check query to dismiss any doubt)
Jan 08 15:04:13 <AntonTakk> ok, so as I understand it, making a call with the framework involves making a few dbus calls and then the framework handles all the finer details?
Jan 08 15:04:32 <Ainulindale> yes
Jan 08 15:05:30 <AntonTakk> cool, that will make things much easier, i can focus on the non framework-dependant parts of my app first and add the dbus calls later  :)
Jan 08 15:13:59 <morphis> mickeyl: ping
Jan 08 15:22:04 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: so what are your thoughts now - after mickeyl's input?
Jan 08 15:24:18 <Ainulindale> I'm on the phone, will be back later
Jan 08 15:25:02 <mrmoku> k
Jan 08 15:26:05 <bumbl> Ainulindale: did you get the link
Jan 08 15:27:59 <mickeyl> morphis: pong
Jan 08 15:29:49 <bumbl> morphis: pang peng ping pong pung
Jan 08 15:30:44 <morphis> Sargun_screen: ask me to point you on his posts about odaemond
Jan 08 15:31:00 <morphis> mickeyl: Sargun_screen ask me to point you on his posts about odaemond
Jan 08 15:31:15 <morphis> bumbl: whats up?
Jan 08 15:31:21 <mickeyl> thanks for the pointer
Jan 08 15:31:24 <mickeyl> it's already marked in my inbox
Jan 08 15:31:38 <mickeyl> i don't know when i have time to answer though
Jan 08 15:31:38 <morphis> mickeyl: great, what do you think about it?
Jan 08 15:31:46 <mickeyl> i didn't read it
Jan 08 15:31:48 <mickeyl> it's just marked
Jan 08 15:31:50 <morphis> ok
Jan 08 15:31:57 <morphis> I will tell him
Jan 08 15:32:54 <mickeyl> unfortunately i don't have a multicore brain
Jan 08 15:32:59 <mickeyl> so everything lands in one serialized queue
Jan 08 15:33:05 <morphis> hehe :)
Jan 08 15:34:31 * mrmoku also would want an 8-core i7-brain ;)
Jan 08 15:35:04 <bumbl> morphis: is python-elementary on its way to feature completion and have you solved the toolbar problems?
Jan 08 15:35:39 <morphis> bumbl: jepp, I solved the toolbar problems. It is currently just a no-time problem :)
Jan 08 15:36:02 <morphis> there are currently some simple things missing like the new list widget or the complete api for hover and toolbar
Jan 08 15:38:22 <bumbl> ah ok
Jan 08 15:56:05 <Ainulindale> mickeyl? Read my query?
Jan 08 15:56:07 <TAsn> Hey all!
Jan 08 15:56:24 <TAsn> I'm going skiing the day after tomorrow so I won't be here for a week ;]
Jan 08 15:56:34 <TAsn> I hope you won't miss me too much :}
Jan 08 15:58:16 <Ainulindale> TAsn: Not really, nobody likes you, you're israelian
Jan 08 15:58:46 <TAsn> thought so, I read the news in europe, you are right, no one likes me ;]
Jan 08 15:58:58 <bumbl> Ainulindale: did you get what i have scribbled? was it what you meant it to be?
Jan 08 15:59:05 <Ainulindale> Yeah, I posted it on the blog already
Jan 08 15:59:09 <Ainulindale> blog.shr-project.org
Jan 08 15:59:59 <bumbl> ah add it to planet
Jan 08 16:01:07 <johnsu01> It seems like the wiki logs me out after no time at all, kind of annoying
Jan 08 16:01:13 <Ainulindale> bumbl: it'll be added when roh will update planet
Jan 08 16:01:15 <Ainulindale> roh: ping
Jan 08 16:01:17 <mickeyl> Ainulindale: *nod*
Jan 08 16:01:30 * mickeyl grabbing some food
Jan 08 16:02:36 <Ainulindale> mickey|dinner: just trying to make things clear
Jan 08 16:02:38 <PaulFertser> TAsn: UN are hypocritic :-/
Jan 08 16:03:12 <TAsn> PaulFertser, ;\ but they make a lot of noise.
Jan 08 16:04:10 <PaulFertser> TAsn: they should have tried to seek deal with hamas themselves. :-/
Jan 08 16:04:31 <TAsn> well it's too late now.
Jan 08 16:04:39 <TAsn> I'm generally against war, but this war is just.
Jan 08 16:05:40 <TAsn> Israel doesn't even want to conquer gaza, not to mention demolish the hamas, all we want is peace in that region, and if extreme force is what needed, so be it.
Jan 08 16:05:41 <PaulFertser> I wonder who can be pro-war :( But there's enough cruel people among israelis too, it seems.
Jan 08 16:05:52 <starox__> I don't see how a war can be "just"
Jan 08 16:06:24 <TAsn> starox__, because israel didn't start the war, we are just trying to end it.
Jan 08 16:06:40 <Ainulindale> by the way
Jan 08 16:06:44 <TAsn> we attacked gaza because they attacked us with many rackets in the past 8 years.
Jan 08 16:06:44 <Ainulindale> I have no opinion on this war thing
Jan 08 16:06:46 <Ainulindale> Or more correctly
Jan 08 16:06:47 <starox__> israel makes the war with their wall and their blocus
Jan 08 16:06:48 <PaulFertser> starox__: hamas always says that all they want is to destroy Israel. And they keep a reasonable part of the population in constant fear.
Jan 08 16:06:51 <Ainulindale> I won't state it as it's not the right place :- )
Jan 08 16:06:57 <docscrutinzrflu> nonsense. no clearly defined goal. so it never can become a success
Jan 08 16:07:09 <starox__> they refused to talk to hamas which had been dememocratically elected
Jan 08 16:07:20 <TAsn> starox__, that's not true.
Jan 08 16:07:26 <TAsn> hamas refused to talk to them.
Jan 08 16:07:35 <PaulFertser> starox__: talk about what? Destruction of Israel? 
Jan 08 16:07:46 <starox__> israel frontiers
Jan 08 16:07:52 <TAsn> as PaulFertser stated, hamas don't acknowledge israel's existence.
Jan 08 16:09:06 <PaulFertser> docscrutinzrflu: unfortunately, i can't see how can Israel success either. Just a temporary victory to gain several years of peace for israelis.
Jan 08 16:09:18 <TAsn> PaulFertser, exactly.
Jan 08 16:09:43 <docscrutinzrflu> i talked about israels  recent actions
Jan 08 16:10:13 <TAsn> starox__, a nice cartoon describing exactly what I think about the whole situation
Jan 08 16:10:15 <TAsn> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_JDeGVnP5j20/SVuvfEpNckI/AAAAAAAAADE/MLqeBtPDCdA/s1600-h/1_125418870.jpg
Jan 08 16:10:34 <TAsn> docscrutinzrflu, no one said anything about success.
Jan 08 16:10:44 <TAsn> and there is a clearly defined goal
Jan 08 16:11:03 <PaulFertser> docscrutinzrflu: they want to make hamas stop launching rockets, i think. And they'll succeed in that. At least for several years.
Jan 08 16:11:11 <TAsn> stop the hamas rocket launches on israeli cities.
Jan 08 16:11:14 * mrmoku thinks we should talk about the success of SHR instead ;)
Jan 08 16:11:16 <docscrutinzrflu> TAsn: kill 2.5 mio people?
Jan 08 16:11:41 <TAsn> docscrutinzrflu, first of all, there are only 1.5 mil ;] (j/k)
Jan 08 16:11:46 <starox__> TAsn: you're aside
Jan 08 16:12:00 <docscrutinzrflu> TAsn: how do you stop rocket launches with bombs?
Jan 08 16:12:01 <TAsn> but I don't think the intention is to kill them at all.
Jan 08 16:12:15 <TAsn> docscrutinzrflu, bomb the rocket launch pads?
Jan 08 16:12:22 <TAsn> duh?
Jan 08 16:12:24 <docscrutinzrflu> muahaa
Jan 08 16:12:38 <starox__> israelite governement don't want peace
Jan 08 16:12:41 <docscrutinzrflu> which pads?
Jan 08 16:12:51 <TAsn> docscrutinzrflu, rocket launchers...
Jan 08 16:12:56 <TAsn> have you ever played red alert?
Jan 08 16:13:35 <TAsn> starox__, I think you are wrong, though you may be right, the israeli army is vastly outnumbered, so I don't think they want war, logic 101.
Jan 08 16:14:13 <docscrutinzrflu> btw. I succeed to stop smoking easily. 40 times a day. So how is exact def of "stop launches"?
Jan 08 16:14:14 <PaulFertser> starox__: what can you suggest to do instead? To stop rockets?
Jan 08 16:14:14 <Sargun> We're talking about Rocks!
Jan 08 16:14:41 <TAsn> docscrutinzrflu, anyhow, in redalert you can either stop the v-2 rockets by stopping the rocket one at a time (not very efficient) or you can just bomb the rocket launcher.
Jan 08 16:15:05 <PaulFertser> docscrutinzrflu: i wish you'll succeed in that more than that. ;)
Jan 08 16:15:08 <docscrutinzrflu> kassam isnt V2
Jan 08 16:15:20 <TAsn> docscrutinzrflu, yeah, you can't shoot off a kassam.
Jan 08 16:15:28 <TAsn> and kassam does more damage and shoots farther.
Jan 08 16:15:40 <TAsn> I can tell you one thing.
Jan 08 16:16:33 <Sargun> TAsn, Isn't Israel part of the nuclear club?
Jan 08 16:16:37 <TAsn> I grew up (like many around here) fearing buses, because when I was a kid there were suicides bombing all the time, until we built the wall of gaza and gave away the gaza strip completely.
Jan 08 16:16:45 <TAsn> Sargun, not officially. ;]
Jan 08 16:17:05 <Sargun> TAsn, The government could take Gaza off the map.
Jan 08 16:17:11 <Sargun> in a minutes.
Jan 08 16:17:16 <starox__> TAsn: Honestly, I don't know If i'm right or wrong. That's just what I've understand. There are rockets sure. But there is also the blocus. People can't see their family in outer territory since 2006. How to not make hate with this blocus. I will read further about this, but I'm pretty sure Israel makes a big mistake
Jan 08 16:17:22 <TAsn> when we gave away the strips they started bombing less because we caught the bombers on the border
Jan 08 16:17:25 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: ping me when there
Jan 08 16:17:30 <TAsn> but still they bombed us
Jan 08 16:17:42 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: ping ping ping
Jan 08 16:17:42 <Sargun> TAsn, Nerve gas?
Jan 08 16:17:54 <Sargun> Nerve gas could take out the strip in minutes.
Jan 08 16:17:58 <TAsn> lately we stop them everytime, so I'm not afraid of buses anymore, though people's houses are bombarded on a daily bases.
Jan 08 16:18:10 <TAsn> Sargun, we can easily demolish gaza
Jan 08 16:18:21 <TAsn> even without illegal weapons
Jan 08 16:18:26 <Kensan> Sargun: yes, obviously this conflict can be resolved by means of weapons.
Jan 08 16:18:38 <starox__> Furthermore, Israel have to kill civilians on this small crowded land. It's crim against humanity
Jan 08 16:18:40 <TAsn> but we don't want to hurt civilians.
Jan 08 16:18:59 <Sargun> Kensan, If you wipe the enemy off the map, who is there to fight? 
Jan 08 16:19:12 <Kensan> Sargun: the rest of the arabic world?
Jan 08 16:19:17 <TAsn> Sargun, we don't want to kill everyone
Jan 08 16:19:24 <starox__> They targeted anything which represents state : school hospitals, ambulancy
Jan 08 16:19:27 <TAsn> Kensan, the arab world do not care about gaza.
Jan 08 16:19:28 <Kensan> Sargun: etc etc ad absurdum until nobody is "left on the map"
Jan 08 16:19:36 <TAsn> starox__, not true.
Jan 08 16:19:51 <starox__> TAsn: for that I'm certain
Jan 08 16:20:00 <TAsn> starox__, we only attacked places where rockets were launched from
Jan 08 16:20:08 <TAsn> so yeah, we also hit hospitals
Jan 08 16:20:08 <Kensan> Sombeody should change the channel-subject *heh*
Jan 08 16:20:20 <starox__> I've heard many witnesses on many media about ambulancies
Jan 08 16:20:23 <TAsn> but that's because the cowardly hamas is hiding behind civilians.
Jan 08 16:20:33 <TAsn> starox__, I can tell you even more
Jan 08 16:20:38 <TAsn> we hit our own troops
Jan 08 16:20:39 <TAsn> twice.
Jan 08 16:20:54 <TAsn> severally hurt a general iirc.
Jan 08 16:21:06 <TAsn> this doesn't mean we hate our generals
Jan 08 16:21:07 <starox__> sad anyway
Jan 08 16:21:11 <TAsn> or we think it's just hurting them.
Jan 08 16:21:58 <TAsn> anyhow, as I was saying.
Jan 08 16:22:03 <TAsn> I grew up fearing buses.
Jan 08 16:22:20 <TAsn> I can only try to understand how they feel in shderot
Jan 08 16:22:29 <TAsn> or any other city being bombarded for 8+- years.
Jan 08 16:22:57 <docscrutinzrflu> like ghaza town?
Jan 08 16:23:19 <TAsn> no
Jan 08 16:23:29 <TAsn> gaza city is bombarded only for 8 years
Jan 08 16:23:38 <TAsn> shderot is bombarded for 8 years now
Jan 08 16:23:44 <TAsn> gaza = 8 days.
Jan 08 16:23:55 <TAsn> btw, this is why we have to hit hospitals
Jan 08 16:23:55 <bumbl> TAsn: well if there is peace now it might be that they get rockets which can reach tel aviv by the next time
Jan 08 16:23:57 <TAsn> http://www.realclearpolitics.com/blog/israel_palestine_cartoon.gif
Jan 08 16:24:05 <TAsn> bumbl, exactly.
Jan 08 16:24:18 <bumbl> and if they do - it will hurt
Jan 08 16:24:24 <TAsn> that's israels greatest fear.
Jan 08 16:24:49 <TAsn> watch the link, it's nice ;]
Jan 08 16:24:56 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: ok
Jan 08 16:25:07 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: could you regenerate unstable based on latest OE and test it?
Jan 08 16:25:15 <Ainulindale> (new frameworkd/new kernel)
Jan 08 16:25:18 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: locally or on the buildhost?
Jan 08 16:25:34 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: Well locally would be better IMHO
Jan 08 16:25:46 <mrmoku> locally I started a fresh build about half an hour ago
Jan 08 16:25:48 <docscrutinzrflu> nothing a ignition of some 50MT warheads all over the whole area couldn't stop prematurely
Jan 08 16:26:53 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: there is still some things I can't do though... lfg for the most important
Jan 08 16:26:54 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: good thanks :-)
Jan 08 16:27:11 <Ainulindale> mickey|dinner? Could you give commit access to mrmoku on fso git? (for libframeworkd-glib)
Jan 08 16:29:10 <TAsn> starox__, docscrutinzrflu, as I was saying, war is hard, on both sides, I have friends out there in gaza, I know people who's friends died there, no one likes war, but this one was forced upon us, they are constantly attacking us, we turned our heads aside for too much time, they got sophisticated, they can now launch rockets almost all the way to tel-aviv, that we cannot allow, that's one thing too much, I'm sad you can not understa
Jan 08 16:29:10 <TAsn> nd the situation we are in, but we are not in an easy position. As you know, and I have said before, by mere force (even legal force) we can easily wipe out gaza, we don't want that. We want to wipe the rockets and launchers.
Jan 08 16:29:33 <bumbl> TAsn: i don't think the arabic world does not care about gaza - the iran certainly does
Jan 08 16:29:45 <TAsn> The poking cartoon (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_JDeGVnP5j20/SVuvfEpNckI/AAAAAAAAADE/MLqeBtPDCdA/s1600-h/1_125418870.jpg) describes exactly what I think.
Jan 08 16:29:54 <TAsn> bumbl, they don't, what makes you feel they do?
Jan 08 16:30:05 <TAsn> they don't send any humanitarian help there
Jan 08 16:30:15 <TAsn> neither do they accept refugees from there.
Jan 08 16:30:22 <bumbl> TAsn: they send them rockets over the egypt border
Jan 08 16:30:28 <TAsn> lol
Jan 08 16:30:35 <TAsn> this does not mean they like them
Jan 08 16:30:39 <TAsn> this only means they hate us.
Jan 08 16:30:43 <bumbl> yeah
Jan 08 16:30:48 <bumbl> but they care about them
Jan 08 16:30:54 <bumbl> if they are dead
Jan 08 16:31:06 <TAsn> you can't conclude that because they gave them rockets.
Jan 08 16:31:10 <bumbl> they would have to attack by themselves
Jan 08 16:31:19 <TAsn> if they are dead there's always hizbolla and lebannon.
Jan 08 16:31:25 <TAsn> bumbl, that's kinda cynical ;]
Jan 08 16:31:27 <starox__> TAsn: I'm understanding.
Jan 08 16:31:53 <Ainulindale> Damn, need help, I accidentaly deleted my arch.conf file :-)
Jan 08 16:31:58 <bumbl> because achmedineshad said some rather bad things about you and threatened
Jan 08 16:31:59 <Ainulindale> Could someone please pastebin it to me?
Jan 08 16:32:04 <TAsn> Ainulindale, sure, sec.
Jan 08 16:32:20 <bumbl> that he wants to have israel in the heart of germany a while ago
Jan 08 16:33:06 <TAsn> Ainulindale, http://pastebin.com/m42d7cd1d
Jan 08 16:33:08 <bumbl> not realistic
Jan 08 16:33:45 <TAsn> bumbl, he is not realistic.
Jan 08 16:34:07 <TAsn> he just wants supporters
Jan 08 16:34:14 <TAsn> I don't think he personally hates us
Jan 08 16:34:23 <TAsn> he just knows hating us is good for his pr ;]
Jan 08 16:34:27 <Ainulindale> TAsn: thanks
Jan 08 16:34:32 <bumbl> haha
Jan 08 16:34:35 <bumbl> well true
Jan 08 16:34:53 <TAsn> Ainulindale, that's the least I can do after I've been spamming this chan all the afternoon.
Jan 08 16:34:54 <TAsn> ;]
Jan 08 16:35:15 <Sargun> TAsn, Then leave and go somewhere else? You realize the current location will never give you peace?
Jan 08 16:35:30 <TAsn> Sargun, I'll do that.
Jan 08 16:35:33 <TAsn> no doubt about that.
Jan 08 16:35:46 <Zorkman> i wish that in stead of throwing rocks/shooting missiles/fighting in gaza.... israeli's and palestinians would join hands and my dishes because i hate to do them :( :)
Jan 08 16:35:46 <TAsn> but move 7 million people
Jan 08 16:35:57 <TAsn> Zorkman, ++
Jan 08 16:36:15 <Ainulindale> mickey|dinner: FYI, currently installing python-unittest on my device and starting to toy with opimd
Jan 08 16:36:18 <TAsn> Sargun, moving 7 mil is impossible, especially since a lot got a lot invested in here
Jan 08 16:36:22 <TAsn> and move where?
Jan 08 16:36:37 <Zorkman> to the moon! and beyond! :)
Jan 08 16:36:38 <TAsn> Sargun, that's just not possible.
Jan 08 16:36:39 <Sargun> TAsn, Take over mexico, no one cares about mexico anyways
Jan 08 16:36:45 <TAsn> Sargun, ;]
Jan 08 16:36:58 <Zorkman> lot's of place in canada also :)
Jan 08 16:37:08 <bumbl> TAsn: buy land in India - they love to sell that to other countries
Jan 08 16:37:10 <TAsn> Sargun, s/arabs/mexicans/ s/middle east/middle america/
Jan 08 16:37:11 <TAsn> ?
Jan 08 16:37:13 <Zorkman> or convert the palestinians? ;-)
Jan 08 16:37:24 <Sargun> TAsn, iceland?"
Jan 08 16:37:31 <TAsn> Zorkman, I don't like religions, so that's not a possibilty.
Jan 08 16:37:38 <TAsn> Sargun, I think I'll move to italy.
Jan 08 16:37:38 <TAsn> ;]
Jan 08 16:37:44 <Zorkman> TAsn: take kasjmir, that way you have more of a challenge ;-)
Jan 08 16:38:13 <TAsn> we first need to build a teleport machine to transfer all of our houses and belongings.
Jan 08 16:38:41 <bumbl> TAsn: it might be easier to transfer the palestines
Jan 08 16:38:44 <Zorkman> bah, thought you jews are shrewd as a... jew? ;)
Jan 08 16:38:50 <Zorkman> you could find a way :)
Jan 08 16:38:56 <Sargun> TAsn, The jews have left their house an belongings many times... I'm sure they're used to it
Jan 08 16:39:16 <Zorkman> jews living together with gypsies!
Jan 08 16:39:21 <TAsn> Sargun, hehe yeah, we got kicked out from a lot of places in the past.
Jan 08 16:39:48 <TAsn> bumbl, people have suggested that in the past
Jan 08 16:39:52 <TAsn> though no one wants them
Jan 08 16:39:59 <TAsn> even not the caring iranians
Jan 08 16:40:01 <Zorkman> what is the public opinion in the streets btw about the current war/military action in gaza TAsn?
Jan 08 16:40:04 <bumbl> surprise surprise
Jan 08 16:40:09 <TAsn> not to mention jordan, syria and egypt.
Jan 08 16:40:20 <TAsn> Zorkman, all in favor.
Jan 08 16:40:26 <TAsn> even the skeptics anti more
Jan 08 16:40:34 <TAsn> s/more/war/
Jan 08 16:40:36 <bzzbot> TAsn meant: even the skeptics anti war
Jan 08 16:40:38 <TAsn> think it's a must
Jan 08 16:40:55 <Zorkman> k
Jan 08 16:41:07 <TAsn> because you can't leave 1.5 million citizens under fire.
Jan 08 16:41:16 <TAsn> (israeli citizens)
Jan 08 16:42:26 <Zorkman> yeah i'm not disagreeing
Jan 08 16:42:50 <TAsn> starox__, btw, think about it, as many stated here before, we have enough firepower to wipe out all the middle east (including israel) a couple of times, if we were trying to kill people the casualties were way above 750 people (the current numbers)
Jan 08 16:43:06 <Zorkman> only european politicians who insist on a cease-fire without a) thinking it through ; b) having any influence whatsoever are working on my nerves
Jan 08 16:43:07 <TAsn> most of the 750 dead are hamas "soldiers"
Jan 08 16:43:29 <TAsn> Zorkman, even bush admitted there's no other solution.
Jan 08 16:43:40 <docscrutinzrflu> nonsense. braindamaged means, not talking about motivation being legal
Jan 08 16:43:45 <TAsn> although he isn't a good example since he attacked iraq.
Jan 08 16:44:05 <Zorkman> a hamas soldier that dies and someone picks up his gun ==> one more "civilian" casualty
Jan 08 16:44:07 <docscrutinzrflu> yeah, if BUSH said that
Jan 08 16:44:10 <TAsn> docscrutinzrflu, please rephrase, I didn't get what you mean.
Jan 08 16:44:18 <TAsn> docscrutinzrflu, <TAsn> although he isn't a good example since he attacked iraq.
Jan 08 16:44:19 <starox__> TAsn: I know you don't want to wipe out any nation. But I think this current action move peace away for years
Jan 08 16:44:31 <TAsn> starox__, I disagree.
Jan 08 16:45:16 <TAsn> starox__, although it may sound sad:
Jan 08 16:45:18 <Zorkman> starox__: even if they were shooting missiles on your wife/kids/parents..... ?
Jan 08 16:45:50 <starox__> Zorkman: Even ! I think there is more subtil ways.
Jan 08 16:45:58 <TAsn> a strong bad ass looking man isn't getting picked upon. ;]
Jan 08 16:46:05 <TAsn> starox__, please suggest one.
Jan 08 16:46:08 <TAsn> not two, one.
Jan 08 16:46:18 <TAsn> we probably tried what you'll suggest
Jan 08 16:46:39 <TAsn> and even if we haven't it probably not plausible.
Jan 08 16:46:43 <TAsn> it's
Jan 08 16:47:24 <TAsn> starox__, I'm waiting for an idea ;]
Jan 08 16:47:24 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: I'm thinking that branching a stabilization/milestone4 branch in lfg makes more sense than a devel branch... what do you think?
Jan 08 16:47:26 <PaulFertser> TAsn: mentioning bush wasn't a good move of yours ;)
Jan 08 16:47:43 <mrmoku> this would be analogous to frameworkd
Jan 08 16:47:57 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: that's what I was willing to do
Jan 08 16:48:03 <docscrutinzrflu> bush and US at large *really* made the world better and more safe by each and every of their actions taken  as response for 9-11. So does israel
Jan 08 16:48:04 <mrmoku> ok
Jan 08 16:48:06 <TAsn> PaulFertser, hehe I know, i kinda took it back after a second, <TAsn> although he isn't a good example since he attacked iraq.
Jan 08 16:48:49 <TAsn> docscrutinzrflu, there's a major difference between the us and israel concerning their counter terrorists actions.
Jan 08 16:48:51 <starox__> TAsn: I'm not an expert and I can't give you an idea out of blue. I was thinking about a less hard action.
Jan 08 16:49:18 <TAsn> the us said something like: "they hit us, we don't know who's day, let's conquer a country"
Jan 08 16:50:00 <TAsn> we said something like: "we know who hit us, they are taking pride in it, they actually have an organization with a leader, let's destroy their war capabilities"
Jan 08 16:50:09 <TAsn> starox__, do you watch the israeli news?
Jan 08 16:50:16 <sicu> i would've thought the less hard actions have been exhausted to no end the past 8 years :/
Jan 08 16:50:19 <Zorkman> btw SHR people, i find http://blog.shr-project.org/ a nice addition, hope to see some regular postings there
Jan 08 16:50:24 <TAsn> on a dialy basis that is.
Jan 08 16:50:42 <TAsn> sicu, exactly what's I'm implying.
Jan 08 16:51:35 <TAsn> sicu, actually, our prime minister was forced to resign because people think the same way as you.
Jan 08 16:52:01 <TAsn> I think this operation means he figured out he was wrong.
Jan 08 16:52:15 <TAsn> ;]
Jan 08 16:53:20 <TAsn> starox__, anyhow, let's assume we haven't tried that yet, what do you consider as a "less hard action"?
Jan 08 16:53:32 <TAsn> tell exactly what we have done that we shouldn't have.
Jan 08 16:53:48 <TAsn> I'll explain why you are probably unarguably wrong ;]
Jan 08 16:57:03 <bumbl> starox__: all the experts say that this action is hard but nescasary - even in europe
Jan 08 16:57:20 <sicu> TAsn: well, it's never wrong to try out the peaceful actions first, but keeping at it for 8 years with the only result being steadily increased attacks should be, and evidently is, a cue to step up and try other means to stop the madness
Jan 08 16:58:04 <TAsn> sicu, did you see the poking cartoon I posted earlier? that's exactly what I think (a picture == 1000 words) and exactly what you described.
Jan 08 16:58:14 * docscrutinzrflu feels like vomiting
Jan 08 16:58:31 <PaulFertser> Any war is incredibly awful and should be avoided by all means. But Israel was forced to defend itself.
Jan 08 16:58:32 <TAsn> docscrutinzrflu, it's easy for you to say that.
Jan 08 16:58:38 <mrmoku> docscrutinzrflu: the flu ? ;)
Jan 08 16:58:46 <TAsn> I said the same a week ago
Jan 08 16:58:50 <TAsn> you can ask bumbl 
Jan 08 16:59:01 <TAsn> but I have come to realize that we were forced.
Jan 08 16:59:16 <sicu> TAsn: yeh, i saw it =]
Jan 08 16:59:32 <TAsn> sicu, hehe I like that one ;]
Jan 08 16:59:39 <TAsn> made me laught.
Jan 08 16:59:42 <TAsn> laugh.
Jan 08 16:59:47 * Kensan ponders the need for #openmoko-politics
Jan 08 17:00:01 <TAsn> Kensan, hehe.
Jan 08 17:00:08 <TAsn> I'm going away for a week.
Jan 08 17:00:15 <TAsn> let's hope that by the time I come back
Jan 08 17:00:17 <TAsn> the war will end
Jan 08 17:00:29 <TAsn> and there will be no need for that.
Jan 08 17:00:37 <TAsn> ;]
Jan 08 17:01:29 <docscrutinzrflu> TAsn: lets hope israels fatalities caused by friendly fire wont exceed those caused by kassam attacks
Jan 08 17:01:49 <TAsn> that could never happen.
Jan 08 17:02:24 <docscrutinzrflu> otherwise you might find yourself forced into war against yourself
Jan 08 17:02:49 <sicu> it's impossible to predict the outcome of actions such as these, so never say never :/
Jan 08 17:02:53 <TAsn> we are talking about peaks of 80 missiles a day, and 30 missile a week in avg over a period of 8 years (I hope I'm not mistaken)
Jan 08 17:03:32 <TAsn> sicu, a death of a soldier is different from a death of a child/civilian.
Jan 08 17:04:17 * AntonTakk prefers the ender wiggin method
Jan 08 17:04:46 <TAsn> they understand the risk they are taking, and they are happily willing to take it.
Jan 08 17:05:48 <TAsn> before I go, we are no saints, be I want to believe we are good people got stuck in a shitty mess. ;]
Jan 08 17:05:58 <TAsn> s/got/who got/
Jan 08 17:05:58 <bzzbot> TAsn meant: before I go, we are no saints, be I want to believe we are good people who got stuck in a shitty mess. ;]
Jan 08 17:06:18 <TAsn> man I ate too many cakes today!
Jan 08 17:06:19 <TAsn> cya.
Jan 08 17:06:25 <sicu> :/
Jan 08 17:06:36 <sicu> cya TAsn
Jan 08 17:06:37 <docscrutinzrflu> so big israel wasnt able during 8! y to setup a radar guided automatic artilary to hit each launchpoint within 5sec??? how come this?
Jan 08 17:06:38 <TAsn> sicu, not funny, my tummy hurts.
Jan 08 17:07:12 <TAsn> huh?
Jan 08 17:07:19 <TAsn> what will that give?
Jan 08 17:07:38 <PaulFertser> Destroying of all launchpoint automatically
Jan 08 17:07:44 <TAsn> first of all it's hard to get a fix on a lunchpoint
Jan 08 17:08:00 <TAsn> and second of all, they launch from everywhere, no setup required.
Jan 08 17:08:13 <PaulFertser> TAsn: you shouldn't have said that ;)
Jan 08 17:08:16 <TAsn> and third, by the time we were able to approve the launch back
Jan 08 17:08:30 <TAsn> they would have been able to run away.
Jan 08 17:08:47 <Zorkman> docscrutinzrflu: and palestinians would (i am sure) launch from densly populated areas, near hostpitals and schools)
Jan 08 17:09:03 <TAsn> Zorkman, they already do, making it harder for us to attack back.
Jan 08 17:09:06 <docscrutinzrflu> aha, so its muuuch better to bomb arbitrary points
Jan 08 17:09:09 <Sargun> TAsn, Put 100k UAVs in the air, and have them blow anyone away who is a threat.
Jan 08 17:09:17 <TAsn> docscrutinzrflu, arbitrary?!
Jan 08 17:09:22 <Sargun> TAsn, Carpet bomb everyone with CN/CS gas. 
Jan 08 17:09:29 <Ainulindale> Could someone tell me how to send arrays/hash to dbus with mdbus?
Jan 08 17:09:41 <TAsn> Sargun, UAVs?
Jan 08 17:10:03 <sicu> Ainulindale: diving head first into pim dev ?
Jan 08 17:10:14 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: IIRC that is not (yet) implemented... not sure though
Jan 08 17:10:27 <Zorkman> TAsn: unmanned aereal vehicules or something like that
Jan 08 17:10:35 <AntonTakk> docscrutinzrflu: if someone threatens your existance, and intends to keep doing so, your only options are to give up and die and fight back
Jan 08 17:10:36 <TAsn> docscrutinzrflu, you need to set you facts straight
Jan 08 17:10:51 <TAsn> we only shoot launch points
Jan 08 17:10:56 <Zorkman> planes withouth people in it :)
Jan 08 17:10:57 <TAsn> but that's far from automatic
Jan 08 17:10:57 <Ainulindale> sicu: yeah, I'm fed up
Jan 08 17:11:30 <TAsn> we have helicopters and f15/16 circling around above gaza 24/7 (now)
Jan 08 17:11:33 <AntonTakk> Zorkman: how about the price tag, that's a main preventative measure
Jan 08 17:11:51 <Sargun> TAsn, Unmanned Aerial Vehicles. 
Jan 08 17:11:57 <Zorkman> AntonTakk: i am not pro those uavs, i didn't even mention them, i just explained TAsn what they were
Jan 08 17:12:14 <AntonTakk> oh, sorry, got confused a sec
Jan 08 17:12:17 <Zorkman> np
Jan 08 17:12:21 <TAsn> same was I.
Jan 08 17:12:23 <TAsn> ;]
Jan 08 17:12:30 <AntonTakk> anyways, UAVs are EXPENSIVE
Jan 08 17:12:45 <AntonTakk> and i don't mean om phone expensive
Jan 08 17:12:49 <sicu> Ainulindale: i just finished reading a few days worth of irc logs, and i would say you're justifiably fed up
Jan 08 17:13:13 <TAsn> docscrutinzrflu, anyhow, we are not bombing arbitrary points, we are bombing pin pointed intelligence based targets.
Jan 08 17:13:26 <Zorkman> anyway; its easy for us europeans/americans to say what they are doing is "wrong" but i think it's rather hard to imagine the "real" situation
Jan 08 17:13:38 <TAsn> yeah.
Jan 08 17:13:54 <AntonTakk> Zorkman: i fully support what israel (sp?) is doing
Jan 08 17:13:59 <TAsn> I dare anyone here come and live on weak in ashdod, a big port city in israel
Jan 08 17:14:10 <TAsn> one week*
Jan 08 17:14:17 <TAsn> damn I'm tired
Jan 08 17:14:55 <Zorkman> and i'm gonna do the dishes
Jan 08 17:15:01 <AntonTakk> Zorkman: if it was me i'd be wanting to know when the nukes would be ready
Jan 08 17:15:07 <Zorkman> bye all and don't get killed TAsn :)
Jan 08 17:15:07 <TAsn> Zorkman, I didn't dare you to do the dishes!
Jan 08 17:15:22 <TAsn> Zorkman, as I previously said, I'm going to a ski trip for a week
Jan 08 17:15:26 <TAsn> so I think I'll be ok
Jan 08 17:15:31 <TAsn> I may break a leg.
Jan 08 17:15:33 <AntonTakk> TAsn: the scary part is his life is in greater danger doing his dishes  :)
Jan 08 17:15:44 <Zorkman> :D
Jan 08 17:16:29 <Zorkman> anyway, hopefully the situation will be improved within ten years (hopefully realistic ;-))
Jan 08 17:16:42 <Sargun> AntonTakk, but at least you don't have to flash them every couple days.
Jan 08 17:17:12 <Zorkman> opkg upgrade dishes ; for more filth!
Jan 08 17:17:46 <AntonTakk> Sargun: true, but as i understand it, their failure rate is greater than that of making voice calls from a freerunner  ;)
Jan 08 17:18:07 <Sargun> AndreasD, haha
Jan 08 17:18:21 <AntonTakk> so you are combining super expensive, with failure prone
Jan 08 17:19:35 <TAsn> in conclusion before I really go, just be aware that it's easy to criticize when you are an outsider and you don't know all the facts. It's not easy living here, and we got forced to this solution, we don't like to see our soldiers dying, but again, this war was forced upon us. You only see israel in the news now when we attack, because they attacks got the media bored, because they are attacking us for a lot more than 8 years (thoug
Jan 08 17:19:35 <TAsn> h the gaza strip conflict is 8 years) on a daily basis.
Jan 08 17:19:49 <TAsn> anyhow, cya all. ;]
Jan 08 17:20:09 <bumbl> TAsn: cya and have fun in austria
Jan 08 17:20:24 <toggles_w> `TAsn: lookout for the kangaroos
Jan 08 17:20:27 <TAsn> thanks.
Jan 08 17:20:38 <TAsn> toggles_w, ;]
Jan 08 17:21:07 <sicu> ah, thought i was in #openmoko, where 'offtopic' is the norm
Jan 08 17:21:19 <sicu> the offtopicness is spreading
Jan 08 17:22:16 <TAsn> sicu, as it seem Israel and the palastenians aren't the only ones suffering from this conflict, #openmoko-cdevel is also having a hard time. ;]
Jan 08 17:23:30 <sicu> =]
Jan 08 17:23:52 <sicu> TAsn: have a nice trip =]
Jan 08 17:25:04 <bumbl> yeah and beware of the kangaroos on the slopes
Jan 08 17:25:12 <bumbl> they like attacking tourists
Jan 08 17:26:06 <PaulFertser> TAsn: good luck :)
Jan 08 17:35:07 <starox__> more I search about this conflict, more article are against israël. 
Jan 08 17:36:33 <bumbl> starox__: i don't believe that
Jan 08 17:36:42 <dcordes> it's always good to be media controlled
Jan 08 17:36:48 <dcordes> no need to think then
Jan 08 17:37:12 <bumbl> only stupid mass media says that israel did the wrong thing
Jan 08 17:37:19 <bumbl> just my experience
Jan 08 17:38:23 <dcordes> let's not go political. certainly not the place
Jan 08 17:38:32 <bumbl> all media that analysis the situation in detail came to the conclusion that this was the path that most souveren countries would have taken
Jan 08 17:39:20 <Ainulindale> mickey|dinner: need some info on what you would like in opimd for the basic CSV contact backend
Jan 08 17:39:26 <Ainulindale> mickey|dinner: I'll start to work on a vcard backend asap
Jan 08 17:39:30 <Ainulindale> I already fixed a dumb bug
Jan 08 17:39:31 <starox__> dcordes: about media, it's why I don't trust them and try to have my own opinion with many many sources
Jan 08 17:40:09 <AntonTakk> Ainulindale: happen to know of opimd will have an evolution back end?
Jan 08 17:40:48 <Ainulindale> It'll be possible I guess
Jan 08 17:40:52 <Ainulindale> Thaat won't depend on me though
Jan 08 17:40:56 <Ainulindale> s/aa/a/
Jan 08 17:40:56 <bzzbot> Ainulindale meant: That won't depend on me though
Jan 08 17:40:57 <AntonTakk> but not planned?
Jan 08 17:41:00 <Ainulindale> No idea
Jan 08 17:41:05 <AntonTakk> ok
Jan 08 17:41:05 <Ainulindale> I'm just starting to work on it
Jan 08 17:41:16 <AntonTakk> yeah, i was just curious
Jan 08 17:41:27 <Zorkman> Ainulindale: to bug you once more with a stupid question: any eta on opimd?
Jan 08 17:41:55 <Ainulindale> No
Jan 08 17:42:07 <Ainulindale> ASAP would be a good guess
Jan 08 17:42:17 <Zorkman> check
Jan 08 17:43:16 <AntonTakk> <MultiVAC> Zorkman: insufficient data for meaningfull answer.
Jan 08 17:43:20 <AntonTakk> :)
Jan 08 17:44:22 <bumbl> Ainulindale: did abraxa commit his changes or do you need to start from scratch/take the code that has been in the repo since summer
Jan 08 17:47:20 <Zorkman> hehe :)
Jan 08 17:52:03 <Ainulindale> bumbl: the latter
Jan 08 17:53:19 <bumbl> :(
Jan 08 18:01:19 <mickeyl> mrmoku|nutrition: send me your ssh key
Jan 08 18:02:26 <mickeyl> Ainulindale: excellent. Just one thing to keep in mind: The focus of gsoc has been to find a good API. Please don't spend too much time on the data storage, but rather find out whether your application needs are suited -- and if not, whether it could be enhanced to match
Jan 08 18:03:22 <bumbl> mickeyl: abraxa gsoc = epic fail?
Jan 08 18:04:07 <mickeyl> no, i think he did a good job as far as the gsoc was concerned
Jan 08 18:12:45 * quatrox don't understand dbus and ophonekitd
Jan 08 18:13:04 <mrmoku> mickeyl: key is on the way, thanks
Jan 08 18:13:53 <quatrox> can anyone tell me how to restart dbus?
Jan 08 18:14:34 <PaulFertser> quatrox: /etc/init.d/dbus restart ?
Jan 08 18:14:44 <quatrox> no
Jan 08 18:14:47 <quatrox> does not help
Jan 08 18:14:52 <quatrox> still timeout
Jan 08 18:14:57 <quatrox> well
Jan 08 18:15:00 <PaulFertser> quatrox: timeout where?
Jan 08 18:15:02 <mrmoku> quatrox: why would you want to do that?
Jan 08 18:15:27 <quatrox> mickeyterm, ophonekitd, fso-settings, etc
Jan 08 18:15:30 <PaulFertser> mrmoku: after adding some new dbus services and installing security policies.
Jan 08 18:15:45 <dos1> quatrox: so restart frameworkd...
Jan 08 18:15:46 <mrmoku> PaulFertser: ah, ok
Jan 08 18:15:54 <quatrox> mrmoku: sometimes gprs makes stuff crash bad
Jan 08 18:16:34 <quatrox> dos1: I stopped ophonekitd, frameworkd, gsm0710muxd and dbus
Jan 08 18:16:46 <quatrox> then started everything up again
Jan 08 18:16:51 <PaulFertser> quatrox: and made sure they're not running with ps ax?
Jan 08 18:17:06 <dos1> quatrox: but in which order and with what delay?
Jan 08 18:17:11 <quatrox> I also tried to grep there
Jan 08 18:17:19 <quatrox> and killed everything 
Jan 08 18:18:00 <dos1> reboot ;D
Jan 08 18:18:13 <PaulFertser> dos1: that's for sissies ;)
Jan 08 18:18:23 <quatrox> dos1: /etc/init.d/dbus start; sleep 3; /etc/init.d/frameworkd start; sleep 3; ophonekitd
Jan 08 18:18:43 <quatrox> dos1: I had to reboot to connect to irc
Jan 08 18:18:51 <quatrox> I use my neo now
Jan 08 18:18:56 <Ainulindale> mickeyl?
Jan 08 18:18:57 <quatrox> no computer here
Jan 08 18:19:00 <Ainulindale> Some minutes for me?
Jan 08 18:20:09 <quatrox> dos1: the outputs from trying to start ophonekitd is at http://om.quatrox.org/om/gprs/opkd.log
Jan 08 18:20:39 <quatrox> I hate to reboot each time GPRS makes stuff crash
Jan 08 18:20:49 <mickeyl> Ainulindale: yo
Jan 08 18:20:51 <Ainulindale> bumbl: planet is up to date
Jan 08 18:21:03 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: let's sum up quickly
Jan 08 18:21:08 <Ainulindale> I think the API itself is good
Jan 08 18:21:18 <Ainulindale> Though I find it weird to build & return queries
Jan 08 18:21:28 <bumbl> Ainulindale: thanks for the info
Jan 08 18:21:30 <Ainulindale> I'd rather build them and keep them as it was before (/Queries/0, etc)
Jan 08 18:22:09 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: so what I'd need now is information from you
Jan 08 18:22:17 <Ainulindale> i.e., what do you need from me wrt opimd?
Jan 08 18:22:30 <Ainulindale> I made the unit tests work, and it lacks some functionnalities IMHO
Jan 08 18:22:35 <Ainulindale> (unicity of data is one of them)
Jan 08 18:23:08 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03ainulindale 07framework * raf588df3e736 10/framework/subsystems/opimd/pimb_csv_contacts.py: Corrected a trailing \n causing problems with the writing of the contacts backend.
Jan 08 18:23:17 <mickeyl> i guess the best way is to try implementing your contacts app on top of it
Jan 08 18:23:20 <Ainulindale> (that's done)
Jan 08 18:23:28 <Ainulindale> Aouch.
Jan 08 18:23:31 <Ainulindale> :-)
Jan 08 18:23:38 <Ainulindale> Do you really think it's ready for that?
Jan 08 18:24:06 <mickeyl> if it's not, we need to find out what's lacking
Jan 08 18:24:06 <AntonTakk> should doing a static cross compile work as a temporary solution for being able to test the spacing/etc of my edje ui for my app since i can't get it to compile on the fr it's self?
Jan 08 18:24:36 <Ainulindale> Ok but it'll be long, and painful
Jan 08 18:24:44 <Ainulindale> And we need someone for that
Jan 08 18:24:51 <mickeyl> what's the alternative?
Jan 08 18:25:00 <Ainulindale> Well, finding use case and build unit tests
Jan 08 18:25:02 <Ainulindale> +s
Jan 08 18:25:05 <mickeyl> more testing code will perhaps not expose the real gaps
Jan 08 18:25:17 <mickeyl> sure, full unit tests are good 
Jan 08 18:25:37 <Ainulindale> But we need to talk about what we really want in the inner sanctum of opimd
Jan 08 18:25:39 <quatrox> PaulFertser: I think the patch you sent me is only working partly
Jan 08 18:25:40 <mickeyl> use cases is something important, yes. that's why i thought implementing the contacts app would lead to them
Jan 08 18:25:43 <Ainulindale> Is, for example, contact unicity something to consider?
Jan 08 18:26:01 <Ainulindale> I just launched the unit test of opimd
Jan 08 18:26:07 <Ainulindale> And it adds a contact
Jan 08 18:26:10 <dcordes_> Ainulindale: do you have the frameworkd-devel-clib branch now?
Jan 08 18:26:15 <Ainulindale> dcordes_: No, but soon
Jan 08 18:26:27 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: but this contact already exists somehow
Jan 08 18:26:34 <Ainulindale> (the name exists)
Jan 08 18:26:45 <Ainulindale> So what should we do to ensure unicity? consider number? name?
Jan 08 18:27:04 <Ainulindale> (And I'd like to write a vcard backend)
Jan 08 18:27:30 <mickeyl> I'd wish you could ask the mentor of the project
Jan 08 18:27:37 <mickeyl> I'm really not much into it
Jan 08 18:27:47 <mickeyl> as much as I'd love answering the questions, i don't know enough
Jan 08 18:28:04 <mickeyl> which is the very reason for my silence
Jan 08 18:28:04 <dos1> will it be possible to use many backends at the same time with opimd?
Jan 08 18:28:05 <Ainulindale> Who's the mentor? Charlie?
Jan 08 18:28:10 <Ainulindale> dos1: yes
Jan 08 18:28:15 <mickeyl> emdete was the mentor for this GSoC project
Jan 08 18:28:22 <gfather> guys the wiki page explains xoo emulation for om-2007.2
Jan 08 18:28:27 <mickeyl> i was merely one of the guys constructing some broad requirements
Jan 08 18:28:29 <Ainulindale> Ok then, I'll bug him if he's willing to help me
Jan 08 18:28:32 <mickeyl> thanks
Jan 08 18:28:35 <gfather> how should i emulate om-2008.8
Jan 08 18:28:37 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: but anyway
Jan 08 18:28:41 <Ainulindale> I'd like to know your general requirements
Jan 08 18:29:01 <mickeyl> i think these are on the wiki page
Jan 08 18:29:04 <mickeyl> let me dig it up
Jan 08 18:29:28 <mickeyl> http://www.neo1973-germany.de/wiki/pyPimd
Jan 08 18:29:32 <mickeyl> alas i don't know how current it is
Jan 08 18:29:37 <gfather> it seems it emulates gta01 , :S , i want gta02
Jan 08 18:29:38 <awwaiid> have any of you folks noticed a slow startup time for perl?
Jan 08 18:29:40 <mickeyl> we talked about multiple backends
Jan 08 18:29:58 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: that one is covered for sim/csv
Jan 08 18:30:01 <Ainulindale> I know how to add one
Jan 08 18:30:09 <Ainulindale> (metaclass and such)
Jan 08 18:30:10 <awwaiid> I should try it on the latest OM, actually
Jan 08 18:30:45 <mickeyl> i think the critical thing is the query language
Jan 08 18:31:05 <Ainulindale> The query language is currently dumb
Jan 08 18:31:36 <Ainulindale> I don't really know what would be the best way to handle that though
Jan 08 18:31:46 <Ainulindale> My guess was to write/reconcile backends to a db
Jan 08 18:32:05 <mickeyl> yes, a db backend would be nice, but i don't think it's a priority
Jan 08 18:32:19 <Ainulindale> I wasn't talking about a db backend
Jan 08 18:32:28 <Ainulindale> My point is (and I should talk about that on the ML)
Jan 08 18:32:38 <Ainulindale> All the backends load their information in the main DB
Jan 08 18:32:50 <Ainulindale> This way we can query on it in SQL thingy
Jan 08 18:33:04 <Ainulindale> When a backend is loaded it is reconciled in the db
Jan 08 18:33:15 <Ainulindale> Deleted, modified, and added entries
Jan 08 18:33:22 <mickeyl> hmm, interesting. question is whether this works with all kinds of possible backends
Jan 08 18:33:22 <Ainulindale> Back and forth
Jan 08 18:33:35 <mickeyl> first, there are read-only backends
Jan 08 18:33:42 <mickeyl> second, there are "live"-backends
Jan 08 18:33:44 <Ainulindale> This can be a flag
Jan 08 18:33:52 <Ainulindale> And live backends can be prevented from loading
Jan 08 18:33:56 <mickeyl> ok
Jan 08 18:34:01 <Ainulindale> (IMHO)
Jan 08 18:34:06 <Ainulindale> you're talking about LDAP I suppose?
Jan 08 18:34:19 <mickeyl> e.g, ya.
Jan 08 18:34:21 <Ainulindale> As in corp yp
Jan 08 18:34:24 <mickeyl> also web stuff
Jan 08 18:34:28 <mickeyl> facebook db
Jan 08 18:34:30 <mickeyl> linkedin
Jan 08 18:34:30 <mickeyl> etc.
Jan 08 18:34:42 <mickeyl> these contain data that should not be stored
Jan 08 18:34:46 <mickeyl> but rather queried at query time
Jan 08 18:34:49 <mickeyl> [when online]
Jan 08 18:34:50 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: You're doing your Sean :-) Don't look at the big picture too much :-)
Jan 08 18:34:56 <mickeyl> heh
Jan 08 18:35:01 <mickeyl> pim is hard to get right
Jan 08 18:35:06 <Ainulindale> Obviously
Jan 08 18:35:24 <Ainulindale> To me, we should differentiate live vs. "dead" data
Jan 08 18:35:33 <Ainulindale> More correctly, remote & local
Jan 08 18:35:51 <Ainulindale> And differentiate queries for that too
Jan 08 18:36:07 <Ainulindale> e.g. ContactQuery vs. ContactLocalQuery
Jan 08 18:36:11 <Ainulindale> (or with a flag, again)
Jan 08 18:37:48 <Ainulindale> I'll try to post these ideas on the ML later on
Jan 08 18:37:49 <mickeyl> sounds good
Jan 08 18:37:50 <Ainulindale> I expect answers :-)
Jan 08 18:37:55 <mickeyl> heh
Jan 08 18:37:57 <Ainulindale> (Or talk, to say the least)
Jan 08 18:38:24 <mickeyl> don't hold me responsible if others don't answer :)
Jan 08 18:38:49 <mickeyl> i'd also love more input on the mailing list, but it's hard to force it
Jan 08 18:38:59 <Ainulindale> Well as I told stefan
Jan 08 18:39:08 <Ainulindale> Even though it's tough, and boring, and difficult to find time
Jan 08 18:39:16 <Ainulindale> It's in your (and by extension the community) best interest
Jan 08 18:39:30 <Ainulindale> The more we talk, the more it'll reflect what we need
Jan 08 18:39:37 <Ainulindale> And the less you'll have to take decisions
Jan 08 18:40:10 <Ainulindale> Well anyway I have to go home
Jan 08 18:40:24 <Ainulindale> I'll try to have a good look at the sources by tomorrow 
Jan 08 18:40:33 <Ainulindale> And to say what's feasible and what is lacking
Jan 08 18:42:05 <mickeyl> ok, cool
Jan 08 18:43:32 <mickeyl> mrmoku: key added. welcome on board
Jan 08 18:43:51 <mrmoku> mickeyl: thanks
Jan 08 18:48:57 <mickeyl> alphaone, shoragan: recommendations on where to put the printk-silencer?
Jan 08 18:49:10 <mickeyl> like... S99bootmisc ?
Jan 08 18:52:01 <alphaone> hmm
Jan 08 18:52:06 <Dave> Hey Mr Moku :)
Jan 08 18:52:10 <alphaone> Sounds like a good choice
Jan 08 18:52:19 <mickeyl> k, trying that
Jan 08 19:12:08 <mrmoku> Dave: hey, how's outside temperature?
Jan 08 19:14:16 <dolf1074> hey, is it normal that there are no projects on git.freesmartphone.org?
Jan 08 19:14:40 <mickeyl> oops
Jan 08 19:15:02 * mrmoku has not yet done anything ;)
Jan 08 19:15:03 <PaulFertser_> OM decided to hide everything, they are fed up with community whinnings ;)
Jan 08 19:15:09 <mickeyl> heh
Jan 08 19:15:12 <mickeyl> an understandable move
Jan 08 19:15:21 <mickeyl> fixed
Jan 08 19:15:32 <dolf1074> thanks ;)
Jan 08 19:18:37 <Dave> mrmoku, frigid, I think
Jan 08 19:18:45 * Dave throws a snowball at mrmoku
Jan 08 19:19:33 <mrmoku> Dave: put some mokos outside and watch the screen go white instead ;)
Jan 08 19:38:22 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07fso-monitord * r9eb56b221565 10/ (7 files in 2 dirs): skeleton
Jan 08 19:38:27 <Dave> mrmoku, aaaaaaaaaaaah
Jan 08 19:44:21 <dos1> hmm, know someone, how to use same file selector widget in python e bindings?
Jan 08 19:45:11 <dos1> s/same/some/
Jan 08 19:45:12 <bzzbot> dos1 meant: hmm, know someone, how to use some file selector widget in python e bindings?
Jan 08 19:50:48 <mirko-paroli> anyone here who can tell me what i have to modify to only display one .desktop icon per line in illume? raster ,maybe?
Jan 08 19:57:56 <mrmoku> mirko-paroli: you mean the list mode? can do that via the illume settings
Jan 08 19:58:27 <mrmoku> change to Slider in the configuration for Launcher
Jan 08 19:58:30 <mrmoku> hey quickdev 
Jan 08 19:58:34 <quickdev> hey
Jan 08 19:58:55 <mrmoku> quickdev: we have a new opimd developer :-)
Jan 08 19:59:06 <quickdev> mrmoku, great news? who is it? :)
Jan 08 19:59:11 <mrmoku> his name is Ainulindale 
Jan 08 19:59:16 <mrmoku> :-)
Jan 08 19:59:26 <quickdev> damn...I though a good one :)
Jan 08 19:59:37 <quickdev> just joking...glad to hear
Jan 08 19:59:49 <mirko-paroli> mrmoku: thx, but that is not quite what i need/want :(
Jan 08 19:59:50 <quickdev> mrmoku, how did he come to that decision? :)
Jan 08 20:00:16 <Hire> what?
Jan 08 20:00:22 <Hire> mrmoku: i know it
Jan 08 20:00:23 <mrmoku> quickdev: because abraxa did not do what he promised and is out of game if i understood correctly
Jan 08 20:00:28 <bumbl> dos1: raster told me that he might do a file selecter widget in the far future
Jan 08 20:00:29 <Hire> it is an OOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLDDDDDDDDDD news
Jan 08 20:00:51 <mirko-paroli> mrmoku: I need the same thing as "icons" except only one icon per line
Jan 08 20:01:06 <mrmoku> mirko-paroli: have to talk with raster then...
Jan 08 20:01:08 <quickdev> mrmoku, I assume Ainulindale is working as a freelancer for openmoko then? or is it independent?
Jan 08 20:01:27 <mirko-paroli> mrmoku: k, thx anyhow :)
Jan 08 20:01:35 <mrmoku> quickdev: no, don't think so... He just wants to get something done :-)
Jan 08 20:01:42 <quickdev> :)
Jan 08 20:02:46 <Hire> ah
Jan 08 20:02:47 <Hire> so 
Jan 08 20:02:49 <Hire> i see
Jan 08 20:03:15 <Hire> ainulindale for fun ( when he is at work or home ) wants to work on opimd?
Jan 08 20:03:18 <bumbl> quickdev: well maybe - it would be fair if openmoko would pay him when he gets opimd done
Jan 08 20:03:20 <quickdev> Ainulindale, here? what about the omrotate guy?
Jan 08 20:03:36 <Ainulindale> Damn german knives
Jan 08 20:03:37 <Ainulindale> Cut myself again
Jan 08 20:03:48 <Ainulindale> quickdev: I need your help
Jan 08 20:03:54 <Kensan> Ainulindale: use an Opinel then ;)
Jan 08 20:03:59 <Ainulindale> Your next mission is to try and implement opimd in libframeworkd-glib 
Jan 08 20:04:06 <Ainulindale> (or mrmoku's :-p)
Jan 08 20:04:17 <quickdev> Ainulindale, are the current opimd functions working?
Jan 08 20:04:18 <Ainulindale> We need that before doing the work in libframeworkd-phonegui 
Jan 08 20:04:26 <Ainulindale> quickdev: I've managed to add and query a contact
Jan 08 20:04:32 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: I did the lfg changes and have to wait for the build to finish to try them
Jan 08 20:04:35 <Ainulindale> I will commit use cases
Jan 08 20:04:43 <bumbl> Ainulindale: get a japanese knife
Jan 08 20:04:45 <quickdev> mrmoku, so you already did that?
Jan 08 20:04:53 <Ainulindale> quickdev: he did the -devel changes
Jan 08 20:05:00 <mrmoku> quickdev: no, i did something in lfg
Jan 08 20:05:30 <quickdev> lfg != libframeworkd-glib?
Jan 08 20:05:42 <mrmoku> yep, thought you should know that by now ;)(
Jan 08 20:05:56 <quickdev> what's lfg?
Jan 08 20:06:14 <mrmoku> yeah, libframeworkd-glib
Jan 08 20:06:23 <mrmoku> but Ainulindale is talking about phonegui
Jan 08 20:06:37 <quickdev> <Ainulindale> Your next mission is to try and implement opimd in libframeworkd-glib 
Jan 08 20:06:37 <quickdev> <Ainulindale> (or mrmoku's :-p)
Jan 08 20:06:42 <Kensan> quickdev: lib-phone-gui
Jan 08 20:06:42 <Dave> heh
Jan 08 20:06:45 <Kensan> scnr
Jan 08 20:06:49 * mrmoku needs a break
Jan 08 20:07:02 <mrmoku> quickdev: sorry, me did not read correctly :-)
Jan 08 20:07:17 <quickdev> mrmoku, so...you already did that opimd chagnes?
Jan 08 20:07:32 <mrmoku> no, I adjusted lfg to the new sms send callback api
Jan 08 20:08:02 <mrmoku> though I still have to see, if that works, what I did
Jan 08 20:08:16 <quickdev> ok :)
Jan 08 20:08:17 <Dave> Does sms even work?
Jan 08 20:08:44 <mrmoku> Dave: if you don't need umlauts... yeah, quite nicely
Jan 08 20:08:52 <Dave> ah
Jan 08 20:08:57 <Dave> and what is the char limit
Jan 08 20:09:02 <Dave> and does it work with Contacts
Jan 08 20:09:13 <mrmoku> naturally
Jan 08 20:09:23 <bumbl> Dave: yes on unstable at least
Jan 08 20:10:23 <Dave> is there now an imposed cap limit on inbox messages?
Jan 08 20:10:36 <bumbl> yep
Jan 08 20:10:36 <Dave> or something similar to that logically implemented on practical phones
Jan 08 20:10:38 <Dave> good shit
Jan 08 20:10:40 <bumbl> sim limit
Jan 08 20:10:50 <Dave> but the app doesn't impose its own limit?
Jan 08 20:10:55 <Dave> (practical limitation)
Jan 08 20:10:55 <bumbl> no
Jan 08 20:10:59 <Dave> that sucks
Jan 08 20:11:04 <bumbl> at least not that i no
Jan 08 20:11:05 <Dave> has this been tested?
Jan 08 20:11:10 <bumbl> yeah
Jan 08 20:11:10 <Dave> because it could blow the app
Jan 08 20:11:14 <Dave> okay, good
Jan 08 20:11:20 <Dave> oh oh
Jan 08 20:11:28 <Dave> and can the sms app send to shorts?
Jan 08 20:11:29 <bumbl> after around 35 sms i get a message that my sim sms storage is full
Jan 08 20:11:36 <bumbl> shorts?
Jan 08 20:11:41 <Dave> short numbers
Jan 08 20:11:57 <bumbl> if it is a real number then yes
Jan 08 20:12:10 <Dave> one of the failures of the old apps was you couldn't send it unless it was a FULL phone number
Jan 08 20:12:10 <mrmoku> Dave: you can even send to multiple recipients
Jan 08 20:12:32 <Dave> mrmoku, so five and six digit numbers willbe valid here, without any prefixing?
Jan 08 20:12:45 <bumbl> Dave: opimd will destroy this limitation
Jan 08 20:12:53 <Dave> hmm, what?
Jan 08 20:13:18 <Dave> Bumble, and for the record, my SIM has like 200 sms messages on it, and contacts. loading in the messages app is SLOW as hell
Jan 08 20:13:24 <Dave> and everything is assy as a result ;|
Jan 08 20:13:33 <mrmoku> quickdev: I was browsing the tickets a lot the last two days... the one important thing from you would be not to segfault if something is not yet ready
Jan 08 20:14:00 <bumbl> Dave: the sms limitation
Jan 08 20:14:07 <Dave> ~_~
Jan 08 20:14:14 <mrmoku> Dave: delete some ;)
Jan 08 20:14:25 <Dave> bah :P
Jan 08 20:14:33 <Dave> the app should help in this matter
Jan 08 20:14:39 <Dave> instead of breaking itself
Jan 08 20:15:07 <Dave> oh boy, and loading the message history via contacts is HILARIOUS
Jan 08 20:15:17 <mrmoku> Dave: was just kidding :p
Jan 08 20:15:21 <Dave> :)
Jan 08 20:16:21 <Dave> So, what other miracles can this application perform, Mr. Moku? :p
Jan 08 20:18:04 <mrmoku> Dave: you should talk to quickdev, if he already implemented the 'turn on the heat' switch :P
Jan 08 20:18:26 <mrmoku> brb
Jan 08 20:19:27 <AntonTakk> why not just pull the messages from the sim and stuff them in an sqlite db on receipt? couls store many more messages and very efficiently
Jan 08 20:19:50 <Dave> That's what I said, Anton!
Jan 08 20:19:59 <Dave> But nooooooooo, did anyone else really think to implement it. bah.
Jan 08 20:20:08 <AntonTakk> that's what I planned to write  :)
Jan 08 20:20:12 <Dave> Furthermore, there is no way to obtain them conveniently, this would fix this!
Jan 08 20:20:15 <Dave> grr
Jan 08 20:20:27 <bumbl> AntonTakk: that's on the todo list
Jan 08 20:20:40 <dos1> wait on opimd!
Jan 08 20:20:40 <AntonTakk> fso doesn't provide a convienient way to get messahes?
Jan 08 20:20:42 <bumbl> opimd will do that 
Jan 08 20:20:44 <quickdev> mrmoku, will work on them as soon as I can...have to code for a commercial web project these days
Jan 08 20:20:48 <bumbl> pyneo does it already afaik
Jan 08 20:20:49 <dos1> ;D
Jan 08 20:20:56 <Dave> bah
Jan 08 20:21:07 <Dave> opimd is vaporware
Jan 08 20:21:14 <Ainulindale> Not for long
Jan 08 20:21:24 <AntonTakk> Dave: I can implement it with a text only ui for you with relative speed  ;)
Jan 08 20:21:29 <Dave> It's been talked about for so long, but there's never anything tangible.
Jan 08 20:21:38 <Dave> Anton, that would be sweet.
Jan 08 20:21:47 <Dave> I mean I'm using a terminal :)
Jan 08 20:21:50 <Dave> It's all good :D
Jan 08 20:21:54 <AntonTakk> hehe
Jan 08 20:22:04 <dos1> on 2007.2 i was smsing from terminal :D
Jan 08 20:22:16 <dos1> libgsmd-tool -m shell
Jan 08 20:22:17 <dos1> ;]
Jan 08 20:22:43 <Dave> :P
Jan 08 20:22:45 <bumbl> Dave: the gsoc student was "diving"
Jan 08 20:22:51 <Dave> dos, I tried that, but it would crash frequently :[
Jan 08 20:23:03 <bumbl> it was 2007.2
Jan 08 20:23:10 <bumbl> it sucked and crashed frequently
Jan 08 20:23:10 <Dave> I still have 2007
Jan 08 20:23:16 <Dave> :D
Jan 08 20:23:17 <dos1> Dave: for me was chrashing only matchbox, and i wrote script to spawn it
Jan 08 20:23:22 <Dave> whee
Jan 08 20:23:27 <bumbl> Dave: you are so oldschool
Jan 08 20:23:54 <dos1> bumbl: i was using 2007.2 since beginning of december :P
Jan 08 20:24:01 <dos1> hmm
Jan 08 20:24:02 <dos1> wrong
Jan 08 20:24:06 <Dave> damn straight ;)
Jan 08 20:24:13 <Dave> dos1 ;)
Jan 08 20:24:24 <dos1> hmm
Jan 08 20:24:36 <dos1> i'm not using 2007.2 since beginning of december :DDD
Jan 08 20:24:52 <dos1> previously i was using 2007.2 all the time
Jan 08 20:24:52 <dos1> ;]
Jan 08 20:24:55 <Dave> IT WAS AWESOME
Jan 08 20:25:04 <dos1> yep
Jan 08 20:25:11 <dos1> sloooow, but damn good
Jan 08 20:25:23 <Dave> Net ftw!
Jan 08 20:25:46 * AntonTakk hopes to make some nice progress on his todat screen tonight  :)
Jan 08 20:25:52 <AntonTakk> today*
Jan 08 20:25:57 <dos1> Dave: you mean that game?
Jan 08 20:26:01 <dos1> i have it installed on shr
Jan 08 20:26:11 <Dave> Yeah :D
Jan 08 20:26:16 <dos1> some time ago i was asking here to put oh-puzzles on repo
Jan 08 20:26:22 <Dave> :)
Jan 08 20:26:22 <dos1> and it is ;)
Jan 08 20:26:28 <Dave> Man, those games were teh shit.
Jan 08 20:26:31 <Dave> :)
Jan 08 20:27:02 <dos1> i removed many desktop files, now i have only bridges, fifteen, mines and net
Jan 08 20:27:11 <dos1> these 4 are damn good :x
Jan 08 20:27:18 <Dave> :)
Jan 08 20:27:32 <Dave> Multiplayer Battleship, anyone? :D
Jan 08 20:27:38 <Dave> First multiplayer freerunner game? :D
Jan 08 20:27:48 <Dave> (or something)
Jan 08 20:27:55 <AntonTakk> ooh, multiplayer battleship with move data sent over sms
Jan 08 20:27:55 <dos1> Dave: some time ago i started "mokofight"
Jan 08 20:28:02 <Ainulindale> Tonight, salmon "in papillottes", with brocolis and a nice green lemon sauce
Jan 08 20:28:02 <Dave> Oh, that was you? haha
Jan 08 20:28:09 <Ainulindale> That was worth cutting myself
Jan 08 20:28:12 <Dave> o_O
Jan 08 20:28:29 <dos1> it is intended to be multiplayer, but i never started multiplayer part of code :DDD
Jan 08 20:28:40 <Dave> Fucking Ainulindale and his elaborate advertized dinners :)
Jan 08 20:28:48 <Dave> hehe
Jan 08 20:29:10 <Dave> dos1, I just figured we should call up Acclaim and borrow their code from ten years ago :)
Jan 08 20:29:32 <AntonTakk> is there any way (in the general spec, or specific to fso) to signal that a received sms isn't meant to be passed to the user, but handled specially by the system?
Jan 08 20:29:41 <TAsn> bumbl, http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Arab-Israeli_Conflict
Jan 08 20:29:59 <Dave> Tasn, is that a religious, territorial, or locale based dispute? :P
Jan 08 20:30:06 * Dave laughs
Jan 08 20:30:20 <TAsn> huh?
Jan 08 20:30:32 <TAsn> that's just a funny post (read the comment on the top)
Jan 08 20:32:41 <Dave> You know what's funny too?
Jan 08 20:32:45 <quickdev> have to leave now...see you tomorrow guys
Jan 08 20:32:51 <Dave> The community posts on the openmoko mailing lists.
Jan 08 20:33:22 <bumbl> haha http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Image:ROADMAPTOPEACE.jpg
Jan 08 20:33:35 <bumbl> Dave: funny != stupid
Jan 08 20:35:37 <Dave> :P
Jan 08 20:35:53 <Dave> It'd be nice if we had a roadmaptocompletion for OM :\
Jan 08 20:35:55 <Dave> alas :(
Jan 08 20:36:17 <Hire> what the heck
Jan 08 20:52:10 <Kensan> stefan_schmidt: Hi, how's the rsa going? ;)
Jan 08 20:52:18 <Dave> haha
Jan 08 20:52:20 <stefan_schmidt> Kensan: broken :)
Jan 08 20:52:37 <Dave> Freerunner, the ultimate in modern computer security!
Jan 08 20:52:51 <stefan_schmidt> Kensan: University lecture examples so they are expected to get broken .:)
Jan 08 20:53:24 <Kensan> stefan_schmidt: mission accomplished :)
Jan 08 20:54:10 <stefan_schmidt> Kensan: indeed
Jan 08 20:54:20 <Kensan> stefan_schmidt: do you have a link to the lecture site?
Jan 08 20:54:29 <stefan_schmidt> hmm, no morphis here. He had a question about M800 IIRC
Jan 08 20:54:47 <stefan_schmidt> Kensan: http://www.iti.cs.tu-bs.de/TI-INFO/koslowj/Crypto1/
Jan 08 20:54:57 <Kensan> stefan_schmidt: he was wondering if the Glofiish was a "serious" project.
Jan 08 20:55:02 <stefan_schmidt> Kensan: The one from today is blatt-8
Jan 08 20:55:08 <Kensan> stefan_schmidt: thanks
Jan 08 20:55:23 <dos1> hmm
Jan 08 20:55:38 <dos1> how to easy change height of button in elementary?
Jan 08 20:55:41 <Kensan> stefan_schmidt: I thought Alice was shot in WWII... *heh*
Jan 08 20:55:48 <stefan_schmidt> Kensan: We hope so. Harald is busy in Korea atm, but I hope we have some good news in february
Jan 08 20:56:55 <Hire> harald welte isn't working on M800?
Jan 08 20:57:10 <Hire> or it locked with VIA?
Jan 08 20:57:12 <Hire> *is
Jan 08 20:57:31 <Dave> holy crap
Jan 08 20:57:56 <stefan_schmidt> Kensan: Sometimes oskar is also name wolfgang. Somehow familiar with mister schaeuble ;)
Jan 08 20:57:57 <Hire> holy shit
Jan 08 20:58:04 <stefan_schmidt> Hire: He his, but in private
Jan 08 20:58:13 <Hire> i see
Jan 08 20:58:23 <stefan_schmidt> Hire: You know, workaholics need spare-time projects :)
Jan 08 20:58:32 <Hire> ahah
Jan 08 20:58:36 <Hire> yeah I know :D
Jan 08 20:58:46 <Kensan> stefan_schmidt: Wow, way too long since I had to do this kind of homework :)
Jan 08 20:58:59 <stefan_schmidt> Kensan: heh
Jan 08 21:01:31 <Kensan> stefan_schmidt: written in Latex so it's all good :)
Jan 08 21:02:35 <Kensan> stefan_schmidt: what book are you guys using?
Jan 08 21:03:13 <stefan_schmidt> Kensan: The prof wrote an own., let me search
Jan 08 21:04:36 <Kensan> stefan_schmidt: well don't bother too much, I am just curious
Jan 08 21:05:14 <stefan_schmidt> Kensan: to late
Jan 08 21:05:16 <stefan_schmidt> Kensan: http://www.libri.de/shop/action/productDetails/7477705/dietmar_waetjen_kryptographie_3827419166.html
Jan 08 21:05:39 <Kensan> :)
Jan 08 21:14:36 <yoyo> hi where can I find http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/e92e15d762cfa07d97cd1bd6d51a6ed7.png that keyboard (layout)
Jan 08 21:27:45 <TAsn> yoyo, I can't assure you you'll find it there, though I honestly think you can find it in the illume keyboard wiki page
Jan 08 21:33:47 <Arg0naut> yoyo: i might have it, hold on a sec
Jan 08 21:34:16 <yoyo> Arg0naut: I'w got it :) http://jmccloud.jm.funpic.de/kbd/
Jan 08 21:36:11 <Arg0naut> that's good
Jan 08 21:36:42 <yoyo> I think it is a germany layout z<=>y are changed
Jan 08 21:37:41 <Arg0naut> yeah, i noticed that to, i'm using a customized version of iy
Jan 08 21:37:46 <Arg0naut> *it
Jan 08 21:38:48 <yoyo> sorry for my spelling
Jan 08 21:38:49 <dos1> yoyo: screen on scap is mine, on this url are keys little bit smaller
Jan 08 21:39:25 <yoyo> It shood by default 
Jan 08 21:40:59 <quatrox> any SHR devs who likes to read error logs?
Jan 08 21:41:14 * mrmoku hides
Jan 08 21:41:16 <yoyo> from ?
Jan 08 21:42:00 <mrmoku> quatrox: what is your problem?
Jan 08 21:42:20 <quatrox> http://om.quatrox.org/om/gprs/logs
Jan 08 21:42:29 <quatrox> see restart.sh
Jan 08 21:42:46 <quatrox> the log is in ophonekitd.log
Jan 08 21:43:24 <mrmoku> quatrox: The requested URL /om/gprs/logs was not found on this server.
Jan 08 21:43:53 <PaulFertser_> mrmoku: http://om.quatrox.org/om/gprs/log/ophonekitd.log
Jan 08 21:47:15 <quatrox> mrmoku: I am not sure why, but nothing will work after running restart.sh
Jan 08 21:47:59 <quatrox> mrmoku: looks like dbus doesn't respond
Jan 08 21:49:17 <mrmoku> quatrox: on the other hand dbus gives the response: Failed to handle dbus error: User :1.0 already requested GSM
Jan 08 21:49:38 <mrmoku> quatrox: do you have frameworkd.log also?
Jan 08 21:49:53 <quatrox> yes
Jan 08 21:50:00 <quatrox> it is in the same dir
Jan 08 21:50:09 <mrmoku> ahh ok
Jan 08 21:50:36 <mrmoku> quatrox: are you using a .28 kernel?
Jan 08 21:50:49 <quatrox> no
Jan 08 21:50:58 <quatrox> I use the one that comes with SHR
Jan 08 21:51:29 <quatrox> standard 2.6.24 from December
Jan 08 21:52:48 <quatrox> from December 24
Jan 08 21:53:13 <quatrox> according to uname -a
Jan 08 21:54:43 <Sargun> Linux god 2.6.26-gentoo-r1 #2 SMP PREEMPT Mon Jan 5 07:13:08 PST 2009 i686 Genuine Intel(R) CPU T2500 @ 2.00GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
Jan 08 21:55:14 <mrmoku> quatrox: ic gta01... any gta01 SHR users around?
Jan 08 21:55:15 <quatrox> Sargun: why not vanilla?
Jan 08 21:55:29 <Sargun> quatrox, No, that's my current CPU.
Jan 08 21:55:46 <dos1> mrmoku: yoyo is using gta01 and SHR
Jan 08 21:55:50 <quatrox> mrmoku: I use GTA02
Jan 08 21:57:00 <mrmoku> quatrox: yup, sorry me is just blind or tired or both...
Jan 08 21:58:57 <quatrox> Sargun: my current cpu is ARM920T rev 0 (v4l)
Jan 08 22:02:56 <mrmoku> quatrox: I'm comparing your frameworkd.log with mine... the difference is you get dbus.proxies ERROR    Introspect error on :1.2:/org/pyneo/Muxer and I get setting resource status for GSM from enabling to enabled :(
Jan 08 22:03:08 <mrmoku> so gsm subsystem is not getting up
Jan 08 22:03:35 <quatrox> true
Jan 08 22:03:54 <quatrox> mrmoku: after using GPRS I get kicked out
Jan 08 22:04:10 <quatrox> then I cannot reconnect
Jan 08 22:04:20 <quatrox> then I tried restart.sh
Jan 08 22:04:23 <quatrox> didn't help
Jan 08 22:04:29 <quatrox> reboot once
Jan 08 22:04:35 <quatrox> not asked for pin
Jan 08 22:04:41 <quatrox> reboot once again
Jan 08 22:04:44 <quatrox> and it works
Jan 08 22:04:49 <quatrox> using GPRS
Jan 08 22:04:55 <quatrox> get kicked out again
Jan 08 22:05:09 <dos1> GPRS is evil!
Jan 08 22:05:09 <dos1> :D
Jan 08 22:05:11 <quatrox> you get the idea
Jan 08 22:05:18 <mrmoku> quatrox: so without using GPRS it works fine?
Jan 08 22:05:27 <quatrox> well
Jan 08 22:05:32 <quatrox> I use GPRS now
Jan 08 22:05:36 <quatrox> but only IRC
Jan 08 22:05:41 <quatrox> that works great
Jan 08 22:06:00 <mrmoku> PaulFertser_: might be the muxer buffer problem you were working on?
Jan 08 22:06:10 <quatrox> nope
Jan 08 22:06:15 <quatrox> I got his patch
Jan 08 22:06:25 <PaulFertser_> quatrox: I haven't noticed introspect error, yes :(
Jan 08 22:06:58 <Dave> Damn, I have to jumpstart this bitch
Jan 08 22:07:10 <PaulFertser_> But what does it really mean? It should try to start gsm0710muxd before trying to connect to it via dbus.
Jan 08 22:07:36 <quatrox> mrmoku: PaulFertser's patch did help, but I am still getting kicked out
Jan 08 22:07:46 <quatrox> opkg update can be enough
Jan 08 22:08:01 <quatrox> (usually it is)
Jan 08 22:08:09 <mrmoku> quatrox: so maybe his patch is not yet complete ;)
Jan 08 22:08:37 <PaulFertser_> mrmoku: my patch have nothing to do with dbus errors.
Jan 08 22:08:49 <quatrox> mrmoku: I still would like to know which services to restart to reconnect
Jan 08 22:08:49 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: my build completed... YEAH, first time a build from scratch finished without any errors :-)
Jan 08 22:10:01 <quatrox> mrmoku: congratulations. I try to build SHR also... I hope can manage it this time
Jan 08 22:10:34 <mrmoku> quatrox: you could try to stop frameworkd, kill gsm0710muxd and then start frameworkd
Jan 08 22:11:08 <mrmoku> you would have to restart ophonekitd also (I'm doing it with /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm stop/start
Jan 08 22:11:20 <PaulFertser_> mrmoku: that's what his restart.sh should do ;)
Jan 08 22:11:52 <mrmoku> but that you have to reboot two times to make it work again makes me think the modem might be borken in a way that you cannot solve with restarting some services... :(
Jan 08 22:12:47 <quatrox> I guess power off the calypso should help
Jan 08 22:13:01 <PaulFertser_> quatrox: gsm0710muxd does that
Jan 08 22:13:24 <quatrox> but I know there are issues with powering the calypso on again, no?
Jan 08 22:13:54 <PaulFertser_> Not that i know of.
Jan 08 22:15:23 <quatrox> PaulFertser: less `which fso-settings`
Jan 08 22:16:22 <PaulFertser_> quatrox: i have none, obviously :)
Jan 08 22:17:57 <quatrox> ahh
Jan 08 22:19:48 <quatrox> well, let me quote:
Jan 08 22:19:49 <quatrox> gsm button is disabled by default since commig back from a gsm disable doesn't currently work
Jan 08 22:20:21 <quatrox> no idea if that is still the case
Jan 08 22:22:14 <quatrox> mrmoku: are there any additional information that I could provide to help debugging?
Jan 08 22:23:11 <mrmoku> quatrox: did you talk to some fso guy about it?
Jan 08 22:23:27 <quatrox> no
Jan 08 22:23:41 <quatrox> who should I talk to?
Jan 08 22:23:47 <mrmoku> they would be the right ones to debug something like this...
Jan 08 22:24:00 <mrmoku> you could try alphaone|gone or mickey_away or stefan_schmidt 
Jan 08 22:24:25 <PaulFertser_> mrmoku: i think i can debug it as well. 
Jan 08 22:24:38 <PaulFertser_> mrmoku: but i'm not sure it's fso problem yet.
Jan 08 22:24:57 <mrmoku> PaulFertser_: sorry... yeah I think so too. Just I'm not the right one to debug that
Jan 08 22:25:31 <PaulFertser_> mrmoku: so, you confirm that according to logs ophonekitd behaves as expected?
Jan 08 22:25:45 <PaulFertser_> mrmoku: It seems like it tries to request the same resource twice.
Jan 08 22:25:56 <yoyo> raster: ping
Jan 08 22:26:16 <mrmoku> PaulFertser_: it tries to connect to the gsm subsystem... and that is not up
Jan 08 22:26:22 <stefan_schmidt> quatrox: Talk about what?
Jan 08 22:26:22 <quatrox> PaulFertser: that is because dbus is not responding? Right?
Jan 08 22:26:31 <mrmoku> there might (and probably are) errors in the error handling though ;)
Jan 08 22:26:32 <quatrox> my phone
Jan 08 22:26:39 <stefan_schmidt> quatrox: :)
Jan 08 22:26:52 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: ping
Jan 08 22:27:05 <quatrox> stefan_schmidt: http://om.quatrox.org/om/gprs/log/
Jan 08 22:27:12 <PaulFertser_> mrmoku: "Failed to handle dbus error: User :1.24 already requested GSM" ?
Jan 08 22:27:30 <stefan_schmidt> quatrox: Let's start with the actual problem :)
Jan 08 22:27:39 <quatrox> ok
Jan 08 22:27:55 <quatrox> I connect to GPRS
Jan 08 22:27:56 <mrmoku> PaulFertser_: as I said.. there are problems with error handling
Jan 08 22:27:58 <quatrox> get kicked
Jan 08 22:28:05 <quatrox> and need to reconnect
Jan 08 22:28:09 <mrmoku> but the main problem is the gsm subsystem not starting up
Jan 08 22:28:09 <quatrox> it does not work
Jan 08 22:28:20 <quatrox> I run restart.sh
Jan 08 22:28:37 <quatrox> and you can see the problems in ophonekitd.log
Jan 08 22:28:42 <PaulFertser_> mrmoku: Ok. But i hope you'll take this report into account when you'll be bug-fixing next-time.
Jan 08 22:29:07 <mrmoku> PaulFertser_: error handling in ophonekitd is high up on the list me thinks, yeah
Jan 08 22:29:10 <PaulFertser_> quatrox: and enabling ogsmd DEBUG might help
Jan 08 22:29:38 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: I finished my build from scratch, installed and booted it... you know what? it works :-)
Jan 08 22:29:47 <stefan_schmidt> quatrox: oh, SHR, never really used it so far. Still waiting for the release and the merge of all the stuff into OE.dev :)
Jan 08 22:29:59 <stefan_schmidt> quatrox: Does it come done to an ogsmd problem?
Jan 08 22:30:19 <Dave> Joerg, you around?
Jan 08 22:31:01 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: no... it works NOT :(
Jan 08 22:31:35 <PaulFertser_> stefan_schmidt: actually he wants you to look at frameworkd.log ;) where one can see "dbus.proxies ERROR    Introspect error on :1.2:/org/pyneo/Muxer: dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.NoReply: "
Jan 08 22:33:17 <stefan_schmidt> PaulFertser_: Well in the folder of the the link he posted I see a lot log files :)
Jan 08 22:33:32 <quatrox> stefan_schmidt: I am not really sure what causes the problem
Jan 08 22:33:39 <stefan_schmidt> quatrox: ok
Jan 08 22:33:45 <PaulFertser_> But not every log file is equally useful ;)
Jan 08 22:34:00 <stefan_schmidt> PaulFertser_: Indeed, that is the reason I asked :)
Jan 08 22:36:38 <stefan_schmidt> quatrox: If you can make more sense out of it and it breaks down to fso and not shr please open a bug about it
Jan 08 22:37:15 * stefan_schmidt tries to figure out what new stuff mickey_away break in the OE build now :)
Jan 08 22:37:51 <quatrox> stefan_schmidt: I would love to file a bug, but as you say, first step is to find the problem
Jan 08 22:38:05 <PaulFertser_> quatrox: the next time provide ogsmd DEBUG logs please ;)
Jan 08 22:38:26 <quatrox> ok:)
Jan 08 22:38:37 * quatrox looks in wiki 
Jan 08 22:39:35 <PaulFertser_> quatrox: better add log_level = DEBUG to [ogsmd] section to your /etc/frameworkd.conf
Jan 08 22:40:22 <quatrox> thanks... 
Jan 08 22:40:50 <quatrox> but
Jan 08 22:41:00 <quatrox> is that enough?
Jan 08 22:41:25 <quatrox> no need to specify log_file or something?
Jan 08 22:42:38 <quatrox> ok... then I might loose my connection and get back with a ogsmd log file:)
Jan 08 22:44:13 * quatrox runs opkg update in order to get disconnected
Jan 08 22:53:00 <Dave> poor joerg
Jan 08 22:55:34 <yoyo> 2.6.28 is present  - is it stable / usable on gta01 ?
Jan 08 22:56:31 <Dave> :x
Jan 08 23:17:30 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * rc44aa4c4067e 10/framework/objectquery.py: add org.freesmartphone.Framework.GetVersion()
Jan 08 23:23:17 <Dave> raster, found us a screen yet? :)
Jan 08 23:39:45 <docscrutinzrflu> Dave: awakened me...
Jan 08 23:42:20 <Sargun> mickeyl, hi
Jan 08 23:45:25 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07fso-monitord * rb13be43f582b 10/src/ (consts.vala main.vala obj.vala): add
Jan 08 23:45:25 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07fso-monitord * r4d2f3a18656b 10/src/ (consts.vala main.vala obj.vala): dump frameworkd version on startup
Jan 08 23:45:34 <mickeyl> hi Sargun 
Jan 08 23:47:40 <Dave> Joerg, you okay? :|
Jan 08 23:48:17 <docscrutinzrflu> enjoying my flu ;]
Jan 08 23:48:25 <Dave> oh great... not again :[
Jan 08 23:48:30 <quatrox> stefan_schmidt
Jan 08 23:48:31 <Dave> poor guy
Jan 08 23:48:53 <stefan_schmidt> quatrox: 
Jan 08 23:50:01 <quatrox> http://om.quatrox.org/om/gprs/detailed
Jan 08 23:50:37 <quatrox> the log is extremely long because it took longer time to get the error this time
Jan 08 23:50:49 <docscrutinzrflu> Dave: hey, its cool. Nice to know I'll feel better soon ;-)
Jan 08 23:50:58 <Dave> Ah good :)
Jan 08 23:51:07 <Dave> I was looking into alternative methods for jump-starting the freerunner
Jan 08 23:51:17 <docscrutinzrflu> oh
Jan 08 23:51:22 <Dave> yeah
Jan 08 23:51:40 <stefan_schmidt> quatrox: ok
Jan 08 23:51:54 <docscrutinzrflu> number of fatalities ? :D
Jan 08 23:51:56 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: Seen this before? http://om.quatrox.org/om/gprs/detailed/log/mickeyterm.log
Jan 08 23:52:15 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: detailed log from fso with ogsmd in DEBUG is also there
Jan 08 23:52:21 <stefan_schmidt> http://om.quatrox.org/om/gprs/detailed/log/frameworkd.log
Jan 08 23:52:41 <stefan_schmidt> mickeyl: quatrox is having "fun" with gprs
Jan 08 23:52:49 <mickeyl> sounds like the muxer shutdown and couldn't be revived
Jan 08 23:52:51 <raster> Dave: still  only have 1 that i think is viable
Jan 08 23:53:02 <Dave> :|
Jan 08 23:53:04 <Dave> hrm okay
Jan 08 23:53:10 <Dave> Joerg, hahaha
Jan 08 23:53:12 <Dave> None yet
Jan 08 23:53:25 <docscrutinzrflu> :O
Jan 08 23:53:31 <Dave> Joerg, but someone found it hilarious when I went out to my car to fetch a pair of jumper cables, and said I was going to JUMP my phone
Jan 08 23:53:39 <Dave> and walked inside and proceeded to open up the back of it :P
Jan 08 23:53:41 <quatrox> mickeyl: mickeyterm.log was from after restart.sh
Jan 08 23:53:45 <Dave> with them lying on the table next to me
Jan 08 23:54:17 <stefan_schmidt> Ainulindale: Does SHR use the same revision for the muxer as we do in OE.dev?
Jan 08 23:55:26 <quatrox> stefan_schmidt: I upgraded to the one from PaulFertser, but had the same same problems before
Jan 08 23:55:33 <quatrox> just even more often
Jan 08 23:58:00 <CIA-45> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07fso-monitord * r0bd06ae50eb5 10/src/ (consts.vala obj.vala): gather proxy objects
Jan 09 00:03:09 <stefan_schmidt> quatrox: Well, it is a bit hard for us to debug things when you use other versions and combinations then we do
Jan 09 00:04:09 <quatrox> stefan_schmidt: I can use the original verson... just that then I cannot use gprs at all
Jan 09 00:04:22 <quatrox> without getting this bug
Jan 09 00:04:31 <stefan_schmidt> quatrox: The original from SHR?
Jan 09 00:04:40 <quatrox> yes
Jan 09 00:05:13 <quatrox> I have both here on my fr
Jan 09 00:05:33 <stefan_schmidt> quatrox: I don't know which one they use. I'm not going to have a separate OE build for this, so I have to wait until they merge their stuff upstream before I can easily look at their configuration
Jan 09 00:06:07 <quatrox> you can get the one I use if you like?
Jan 09 00:09:24 <quatrox> stefan_schmidt: do you have a precompiled version of the one you use?
Jan 09 00:09:41 <stefan_schmidt> quatrox: Won't help to shuffle binaries around. I have neither SHR nor a gprs setup here.
Jan 09 00:10:12 <stefan_schmidt> quatrox: Please no binary copying around. That get's really confusing for debugging
Jan 09 00:11:04 <stefan_schmidt> quatrox: I'm a bit out of ideas. If nobody else can help you here send a description with the links to the ml and we will see if someone can make a story out of it there.
Jan 09 00:11:50 <mickeyl> usually this error only happens if the process hangs
Jan 09 00:11:59 <Sargun> mickeyl, two things A) odaemond B) FSO RFC?
Jan 09 00:12:11 <mickeyl> so you need to find out why the muxer is no longer operating the mainloop
Jan 09 00:12:12 <quatrox> stefan_schmidt: ok. Anyway, thank you very much for trying to help me:)
Jan 09 00:12:41 <mickeyl> Sargun: i'm sorry, but you need to give me more time to comment
Jan 09 00:12:44 <quatrox> ahh... 
Jan 09 00:12:54 <mickeyl> i'm processing things in a queue
Jan 09 00:12:59 <mickeyl> new things land on the bottom
Jan 09 00:13:05 <mickeyl> old things first
Jan 09 00:13:10 <Sargun> mickeyl, Alright.
Jan 09 00:13:10 <mickeyl> and stuff piles up
Jan 09 00:13:12 <quatrox> fifo
Jan 09 00:13:40 <mickeyl> i'd love to be more quick, but for that i would have to resign from a couple of positions
Jan 09 00:13:44 <mickeyl> and i can't do that
Jan 09 00:14:05 <mickeyl> anyways, bed time now
Jan 09 00:14:09 <mickeyl> cu tomorrow
Jan 09 00:14:56 <docscrutinzrflu> mickeyl: very unusual strategy. LRU mixed with LIFO more common ;-)
Jan 09 00:16:01 <docscrutinzrflu> mickey|zzZZzz: night anyway
Jan 09 00:17:32 <mickey|zzZZzz> :)
Jan 09 00:17:32 <mickey|zzZZzz> n8
Jan 09 00:17:40 <mickey|zzZZzz> GWS, btw.
Jan 09 00:18:11 <docscrutinzrflu> thnx :)
Jan 09 00:18:16 <Sargun> GWS?
Jan 09 00:18:46 <ptitjes> docscrutinzrflu: hello!
Jan 09 00:19:01 <Sargun> docscrutinzrflu, I prefer suicide.
Jan 09 00:19:56 <quatrox> Sargun: why commit suicide?
Jan 09 00:20:07 <Sargun> quatrox, It frees() your heap.
Jan 09 00:20:10 <Dave> joerg :)
Jan 09 00:25:20 <quatrox> Sargun: no. You will only loose your heap
Jan 09 00:26:29 <Sargun> quatrox, Lose, free -- similar terms
Jan 09 00:31:03 <Dave> heh
Jan 09 01:53:58 <AntonTakk1> anyone know if an edje part can be positioned relative to a part from a different group in the same collection?
Jan 09 01:55:50 <raster> no
Jan 09 01:56:16 <raster> as each group is entirely an element on its own
Jan 09 01:56:30 <raster> u need to arrange them in some parent
Jan 09 01:56:38 <raster> eg swallow them into a parent layout of some sort
Jan 09 01:56:48 <raster> or use smart objects (or evas' box/table stuff) to lay them out
Jan 09 01:56:50 <raster> etc.
Jan 09 01:58:00 <AntonTakk1> know of any example code for either option?
Jan 09 02:02:45 <raster> mountains of ir
Jan 09 02:02:46 <raster> it
Jan 09 02:02:47 <raster> in e
Jan 09 02:02:50 <raster> or etk
Jan 09 02:02:51 <raster> or ewl
Jan 09 02:02:53 <raster> or elementary
Jan 09 02:02:56 <raster> or rage
Jan 09 02:02:58 <raster> etc.
Jan 09 02:03:02 <AntonTakk1> ok, thanks
Jan 09 02:03:03 <raster> svn is full of it
Jan 09 02:03:15 <raster> that is pretty much what e17 is
Jan 09 02:03:16 <raster> the wm
Jan 09 02:03:25 <raster> it glues edje objects with code and smart objects - layout
Jan 09 02:03:29 <raster> and throws them into windows
Jan 09 02:03:38 <raster> plus loads modules and does the wm stuff
Jan 09 02:24:40 <AntonTakk1> are swallow parts not visible untill they contain something?
Jan 09 02:25:01 <raster> they are never visible
Jan 09 02:25:08 <raster> they are empty containers awaiting content
Jan 09 02:25:11 <raster> to be "Swallowed"
Jan 09 02:25:24 <AntonTakk1> explains why i can't see it yet  :)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jan 09 02:59:57 2009