**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Feb 21 02:59:57 2009 Feb 21 03:15:51 :) Feb 21 03:18:04 Dave: :))) Feb 21 03:18:35 :) Feb 21 05:18:19 can someone tell me where I can configure otimed in shr? Feb 21 05:18:34 The things got a hard coded ntp source Feb 21 05:18:41 really smart thing to do :( Feb 21 05:18:46 for us here in Oz. Feb 21 05:19:12 as its in .de - half the world away. Feb 21 05:23:37 whats evbug.ko for? Feb 21 05:23:53 i was about to blacklist it Feb 21 05:36:55 kd8ikt: debugging events I think Feb 21 05:37:03 as in input events Feb 21 05:40:59 like evdev Feb 21 05:41:00 ?! Feb 21 05:45:00 thanx tmzt Feb 21 05:47:36 :o Feb 21 05:48:15 paul: really, never heard of him. Feb 21 06:02:22 juri_: laf0rge Feb 21 06:03:19 Oh! Feb 21 06:03:37 if you were answering PaulFertser_ Feb 21 06:04:00 yea. Feb 21 06:06:13 laforge isn't my kind of engineer. much more from scotty's lineage. ;) Feb 21 06:14:50 juri! Feb 21 06:14:58 heh Feb 21 07:54:35 juri_: yet i know he has done a lot of reversing successfully. What did you reversed with objdump, where can i look at some success stories? Feb 21 08:10:33 hello guys Feb 21 08:10:41 anyone thought of using real time os ? Feb 21 08:56:45 why? Feb 21 08:56:55 what would that help? Feb 21 08:57:49 raster: :) Feb 21 08:58:24 :) Feb 21 08:58:45 well i think it may give better preformance Feb 21 08:59:00 but PaulFertser_ thinks otherwise Feb 21 09:00:08 how so? Feb 21 09:01:01 well in booting time , applications and touch screen Feb 21 09:01:04 "performance" controlling external equipment attached via GPIO while monitoring external sensors via GPIO -- maybe. "Performance" like make end-user feel happy -- never :) Feb 21 09:02:03 first.. realtime os != "better performance" Feb 21 09:02:04 it seems im gonna get flamed here , ill just hide :) Feb 21 09:02:27 yes better performance for fr , Feb 21 09:02:33 an RTOS simple means "if you m ake a system call/request - it is gauarnteed to return and complete it within N time" Feb 21 09:02:37 gfather: Have you ever seen an rt-OS running? Feb 21 09:02:39 N can be anything Feb 21 09:02:46 10ms, 100ms, 500ms Feb 21 09:02:48 1s etc. Feb 21 09:02:57 rto's are generally very minimmal Feb 21 09:03:00 have very few featurtes Feb 21 09:03:03 minimal suport Feb 21 09:03:14 because.. it is very hard to do a lot AND maintain such guarantees Feb 21 09:03:24 an rtos will not make everything suddenly faster/better Feb 21 09:03:53 performance is entirely independant of an rtos Feb 21 09:03:56 they are not related at all Feb 21 09:03:57 :) Feb 21 09:04:17 i didnt say suddenly , but it would be nice to test and see the results Feb 21 09:04:28 Oh, come on Feb 21 09:04:45 i didnt say lets just switch to a real time os Feb 21 09:04:50 You still don't understand the point :-/ Feb 21 09:05:27 well i understand the point , Feb 21 09:05:30 os (kernel) is like 1% of the stuff Feb 21 09:05:33 99% is "userspace" Feb 21 09:05:35 libs, apps Feb 21 09:05:44 first - u now intend to port 99% of stuff to a new os Feb 21 09:05:46 that'll be fun Feb 21 09:05:50 2. u are changn.. 1% Feb 21 09:06:02 how much impact do u really think that will have Feb 21 09:06:28 not that much Feb 21 09:06:31 changing to an rtos will have ZERO effect (that you can seriously measure) Feb 21 09:06:45 of course if u change to an rtos and u rewrite all of the other 99% Feb 21 09:06:51 the rtos is not what made a difference Feb 21 09:06:54 its the other 99% Feb 21 09:06:55 :) Feb 21 09:07:04 as such the gta02 is just a very weak platform Feb 21 09:07:10 u could make it run better Feb 21 09:07:12 but u'd lose features Feb 21 09:07:28 features like what ? Feb 21 09:07:35 u';d lose future-expansion as yuou'd specifically code around the hw problems Feb 21 09:07:38 and come the next piece of hw Feb 21 09:07:43 u re-code large chunks Feb 21 09:08:03 eg u specifically code a ui that ONLY does things that are accelerated on glamo Feb 21 09:08:08 so u draw no AA text Feb 21 09:08:17 u just use simple solid color fills Feb 21 09:08:23 and unstretched bitmaps Feb 21 09:08:35 u specifically reduce the size of all libs and executables Feb 21 09:08:42 remove 90% of features to reduce disk io Feb 21 09:08:51 so u dont need to load as much as gta02 flash is very slow Feb 21 09:09:06 so loading executable and lib data from flash takes time Feb 21 09:09:11 the less u load - the faster things will be Feb 21 09:09:29 trust me when i tell u- it's a losing game doing that Feb 21 09:09:35 unless u hagve a massive engineering dept Feb 21 09:09:38 and thats apply to for after booting ? Feb 21 09:09:44 and accept a huge software cost for every new platform Feb 21 09:09:52 it applies no matter what Feb 21 09:09:58 an os is always loading stuff from flash Feb 21 09:10:01 every time u run an app Feb 21 09:10:05 even while its running Feb 21 09:10:09 its paging data form disk Feb 21 09:11:14 let me give an example Feb 21 09:11:27 my gta02 manages about a max of 3mb/s of reading from flash Feb 21 09:11:32 about 700k/s from sd card Feb 21 09:11:53 my omap3530 (whihc is the same chip in the palm pre and upcoming nokia phones) pulls 16m/s Feb 21 09:12:50 big diffrence Feb 21 09:13:15 yes Feb 21 09:13:19 so code for your gta02 Feb 21 09:13:30 and u do a mountain of work nuking features Feb 21 09:13:43 or simply rewriting everything to be so simple and small it doesnt need to use disk much Feb 21 09:13:59 so the problem is within the gta02 itself more than the kernel and userland Feb 21 09:14:08 and then u forget that actual modern phone systems (gta02 is many years behind in the hw scene) are entirely different beasts Feb 21 09:14:12 u dont need to give up features Feb 21 09:14:15 bingo Feb 21 09:14:26 considering the minimal volume of gta02's that exist Feb 21 09:14:36 its barely worth any software effort to specifically code for it Feb 21 09:14:45 unless om specifically throw money at devs for that Feb 21 09:14:49 and that'd be a lot of time and money Feb 21 09:14:59 if u want to make open source sustainable on phones etc., Feb 21 09:15:05 u need to cover multiple platforms Feb 21 09:15:09 and future devices too Feb 21 09:15:15 so u need to code "looking ahead" Feb 21 09:15:31 just accept the fact gta02 will be sluggish Feb 21 09:15:41 but with the kernel and userland is we have now , it will be easy to be ported to allot better devices in the future , and will give great preformance Feb 21 09:15:44 like buying a petium-100 and wondering why vista is slow on it Feb 21 09:15:45 :) Feb 21 09:15:56 correct Feb 21 09:16:11 i already run e+efl on much mroe powerful devices Feb 21 09:16:17 :) Feb 21 09:16:18 i see Feb 21 09:16:25 i have a phone here that uses the same cip the gta03 will Feb 21 09:16:36 tho its significantly more full featured than the gta03 Feb 21 09:16:42 everythign is runing quite well on it Feb 21 09:16:53 just working on opengles2.0 support Feb 21 09:17:09 tho its amazing.. software rendering can beat gles2... Feb 21 09:17:36 i want that chip :) Feb 21 09:18:09 that chip is even not that great Feb 21 09:18:19 the omap3 is double the processing power Feb 21 09:18:30 hmm Feb 21 09:18:32 not iPhone? Feb 21 09:18:51 and from my tests so far the gles on the omap3 (sgx) is about 3-20 times the speed - depending on what u are doing Feb 21 09:19:12 then again - it could be the gles drivers are not quite "done" yet Feb 21 09:19:15 so lets see Feb 21 09:19:17 but my point is Feb 21 09:19:54 spend all your software effort on an "obsolete" platform (gta02) and u waste opportunity with the new interesting stuff that frankly is by far and wide more popular and easier to work with Feb 21 09:20:25 i understand now :) Feb 21 09:21:06 gta02 has something none of the others have despite its "ancient hw" Feb 21 09:21:07 its open Feb 21 09:21:18 ie manufacturer ships it ready and able to eb hacked Feb 21 09:21:26 that is what it has going for it Feb 21 09:21:35 the rest is pretty unexciting :) Feb 21 09:21:43 :) Feb 21 09:21:55 well i hope thats changed in gta03 Feb 21 09:22:21 (the closest to exciting is the vga screen - but mseverl phonesa had that beat a while back - in japan many phoens ship 800x480 screens with same or better dpi than gta02. i know that other phones in asia do as well - eg korea) Feb 21 09:23:49 iv seen couple of those Feb 21 09:24:37 raster they only question i have right now , is when you will give me bidi support :) Feb 21 09:24:51 not soon Feb 21 09:24:56 busy with lots of other stuff Feb 21 09:24:56 :( Feb 21 09:25:17 well at least keep in im mind pleas , as you said , for the future Feb 21 09:26:39 its kept in mind Feb 21 09:26:52 its one of those holes that need filling Feb 21 09:27:35 raster i talked to behdad about it , he said only pango needed Feb 21 09:27:54 to give bidi support to e Feb 21 09:28:55 "only" Feb 21 09:31:36 yes only pango Feb 21 09:35:14 gfather: when you say "only pango" you can't really imagine the effort needed to get it :) Feb 21 09:35:51 ya i know Feb 21 09:36:01 if it was easy , i wouldve done it Feb 21 09:36:47 what i ment , that no other stuff needed like fribidi or harbuzz Feb 21 09:37:00 *harfbuzz Feb 21 09:41:26 gfather: pango is a pretyt big beast Feb 21 09:41:31 it sucks in a lot of deps Feb 21 09:41:35 i'd rahter fribidi Feb 21 09:41:36 really Feb 21 09:41:41 but that also has limits Feb 21 09:41:52 also pango wil be a massive change in code Feb 21 09:41:58 inf act RTL will be no matter what Feb 21 09:44:01 cant you use the only bidi part in pango ? Feb 21 09:44:50 raster: do you think webkit with efl would work for a phone browser, or do you know of one? Feb 21 09:45:20 gfather: no Feb 21 09:45:22 let's say 600mhz plus, 64mb ram at least Feb 21 09:45:26 use pango. or dont use it Feb 21 09:45:30 its all or nothing Feb 21 09:45:41 tmzt: i see no reason it wouldnt Feb 21 09:45:43 i see Feb 21 09:45:46 i know people using it Feb 21 09:47:27 any source available? Feb 21 09:48:32 of the browser Feb 21 09:48:35 or efl webkit? Feb 21 09:48:40 efgl webkit is Feb 21 09:48:48 theres 2 eflwebkit browser already Feb 21 09:48:51 ewww Feb 21 09:49:10 and eyelight Feb 21 09:49:38 oh sorry Feb 21 09:49:40 not eyelight Feb 21 09:49:40 eve Feb 21 09:49:46 sorry - wrong one Feb 21 09:49:47 :) Feb 21 09:49:48 eve Feb 21 09:50:03 the other ones - no. no src available Feb 21 09:54:49 any work done on an editor/ide for edje? Feb 21 09:55:19 seen edje_editor ? Feb 21 09:55:47 no, I need to get this stuff installed on a desktop/notebook and work on it Feb 21 09:56:12 work with it Feb 21 09:58:06 :) Feb 21 09:58:11 it'll get you started Feb 21 09:58:57 I was a little suprised to see the files were binary though, I had though they were js like source Feb 21 09:59:04 but then I realized they were compiled Feb 21 09:59:15 from the source code Feb 21 10:00:47 yup Feb 21 10:00:52 u can decompile them Feb 21 10:01:00 they actually ship their src in a data segment Feb 21 10:01:03 edje_decc Feb 21 10:01:18 but they are binary for speed and efficiency reasons Feb 21 10:02:00 any idea how imageon and sgx are going to be support in X on arm yet? Feb 21 10:02:24 imageon? Feb 21 10:02:30 that still lives? Feb 21 10:02:32 msm video chip Feb 21 10:02:41 yeah, qualcomm just bought it from ati Feb 21 10:02:45 imageon was an ati thing Feb 21 10:02:48 aaaah Feb 21 10:02:54 beats me about that Feb 21 10:03:04 but theer are gles libs for arm for linux Feb 21 10:03:10 binary only Feb 21 10:03:20 u need a ti.com dev account to download them Feb 21 10:03:24 and put them in your oe tree Feb 21 10:03:29 but thne u have them Feb 21 10:03:35 i have bene playing with them yesterday and today Feb 21 10:03:54 yeah, libhgl on g1 for instance is the hardware library that talks to the gpu through a simple mmap'd register bank Feb 21 10:03:57 so far the sgx (powqervr) on the omap3 is.. underwhelming Feb 21 10:04:02 err powervr Feb 21 10:04:16 and google also has libagl which is a apache licensed gles implementation in software Feb 21 10:04:24 oh? Feb 21 10:04:35 because of the driver? Feb 21 10:04:43 i dont know Feb 21 10:04:49 but likely just hw Feb 21 10:05:05 comparing to a desktop Feb 21 10:05:13 (well my desktop in this case) Feb 21 10:05:23 the cpu on the omap3 is maybe about 1/15th the speed Feb 21 10:05:23 the msm gpu is fixed-function it appears Feb 21 10:05:43 the sgx is 1/80th the speed of my gpu Feb 21 10:05:55 at least in some of my more brutal tests Feb 21 10:05:58 yeah, there's also the dsp though on omap3 which I guess is how it's supposed to be able to handle video decoding, etc. Feb 21 10:06:06 yes Feb 21 10:06:14 dsp is mainly intended for codec stream handling Feb 21 10:06:19 encode/decode audio and video Feb 21 10:06:25 it can be used for gfx accel Feb 21 10:06:31 or anything u code it to do Feb 21 10:06:37 but its really focused on codecs Feb 21 10:07:00 i'll have better numbers i a bit Feb 21 10:07:03 in a bit Feb 21 13:14:10 2009.02.21 14:12:21 frameworkd.controller INFO startup time was 21.94 seconds Feb 21 13:14:31 when system is idle, X are stopped and i'm starting frameworkd from ssh Feb 21 13:14:34 isn't it too long? Feb 21 13:17:37 yeah... gives room for improvement :-) Feb 21 13:18:03 mrmoku: it was when system is idle... when system is booting it is: Feb 21 13:18:04 2009.02.21 14:17:18 frameworkd.controller INFO startup time was 48.12 seconds Feb 21 13:40:34 TAsn, hey, I've weird thing on phonelog. An incoming number shos as Name "NULL" and the phone number is "****" Feb 21 13:41:11 Sharwin_F: why do you think that's weird? Feb 21 13:41:24 Sharwin_F, ;] Feb 21 13:41:33 dos1, well.. I've nver seen a **** number... :P Feb 21 13:41:34 that's suppressed number behavior Feb 21 13:41:40 the number is shown as **** Feb 21 13:41:48 and the "contact" is set to be null Feb 21 13:41:53 you can change it in the config ;] Feb 21 13:41:57 I like it that way ;] Feb 21 13:42:04 suppressed number behavior is when someone wants to hide his number? Feb 21 13:42:13 "Private Number" Feb 21 13:42:14 yeah. Feb 21 13:42:17 ok Feb 21 13:42:22 just go to Feb 21 13:42:23 Private Number sounds better Feb 21 13:42:48 ~/.phonelog/phonelog.conf Feb 21 13:42:54 and change it to whatever you want it to be. Feb 21 13:43:01 Ok thanks Feb 21 13:43:12 suppressed_name = Private Number Feb 21 13:43:12 ;] Feb 21 13:44:26 When I first implemented private number support I asked people how do they think it should be represented, no one said anything so I chose NULL ;] Feb 21 13:44:42 I guess it's kinda confusing ;] Feb 21 13:45:04 TAsn, yes, I've always seen it as Private number. Well, at least literally translated from spanish or catalan Feb 21 13:45:40 TAsn, modyfing the conf file applies for all stored data or only new one? Feb 21 13:45:45 all. Feb 21 13:46:07 Sharwin_F, I'm not from an English speaking country as well, so I didn't know what's the correct translation Feb 21 13:46:21 because "direct" translation doesn't always work. Feb 21 13:46:39 so it's configurable... Feb 21 13:47:11 you can also set it to be the spanish word for it. Feb 21 13:48:03 TAsn, is it planned for everything to use gettext to translate apps? Feb 21 13:48:57 mrmoku: http://pastebin.com/m2d0172f7 - all of errors in patches Feb 21 13:49:36 no, at first I built it for personal use and I never even thought someone will use it, so I never bothered to add support for gettext, though that's a "known issue" and I'll have to add it soon. You are more than welcomed to send patches if you want. Feb 21 13:49:57 I'll have to change some stuff though, because it currently takes it's text from the config file. Feb 21 13:51:17 TAsn, never used gettext libs, it's a thing pending. In which progamming language is it written? Feb 21 13:51:25 python. Feb 21 13:51:41 (it is called pyphonelog after all...) ;] Feb 21 13:51:48 ;) Feb 21 13:52:44 dos1: looks like the fastboot patches came back in fso... Feb 21 13:52:45 * mrmoku checks Feb 21 13:55:04 dos1: hmm, not in fso/milestone5 branch... have you oe-revision set? Feb 21 13:55:20 dos1: what does 'git show' inside the openembedded dir say? Feb 21 13:59:07 TAsn, never used python either, it is in my list of pending thing also haha Feb 21 13:59:47 Sharwin_F, hehe ;] Feb 21 14:00:03 Sharwin_F, make your dreams come true, learn them both and contribute patches ;] Feb 21 14:00:19 don't do tomorrow what you can do today ;] Feb 21 14:02:03 TAsn, yes, but I don't have time till summer, having last year before univsersity and there's lots of stuff compressed in short time, and want to have good marks to have a better mark to enter University :P Feb 21 14:02:55 Sharwin_F, I was just kidding ;] Feb 21 14:02:59 but yes, I'll try to start developing with little things on summer while learning python and other things :D Feb 21 14:03:08 I can feel you, I have a test this thursday ;] Feb 21 14:36:31 tilman: ping Feb 21 14:42:52 :) Feb 21 14:48:06 mrmoku: bluez4: set SCORouting to PCM for om-gta02 Feb 21 14:48:20 dos1: that would be correct... Feb 21 14:49:34 can't try it right now, because I'm building something.... will take a close look later Feb 21 14:51:24 bluez4 :( what a pain Feb 21 14:51:30 dos1: you know what is disturbing me even more than the startup time of frameworkd? Feb 21 14:51:41 that I have no chance to see, when the sim is ready Feb 21 14:51:59 don't know when I'm allowed to fire up openmoko-messages/contacts Feb 21 14:53:12 mrmoku: i believe your build has latest commit to shr-overlay :x Feb 21 14:54:41 i modified power led behaviour in my rules.yaml; blue when discharging; orange when charging; blinking blue when critical; blinking orange when full Feb 21 14:54:50 now i can see when FR is suspended and when only blanked ;] Feb 21 14:54:56 i had it with my 2007.2 and i liked it Feb 21 14:55:02 dos1: ... building locally :-) Feb 21 14:55:07 mrmoku: oh :D Feb 21 14:56:26 dos1: ouch... I don't want it to blink when full... would annoy me when trying to fall asleep ;) Feb 21 14:57:43 mrmoku: hmm... you're right :D maybe purple? both orange and blue turned on? Feb 21 14:59:20 dos1: but that is powerconsuming IIRC... quite contraproductive :P Feb 21 14:59:36 mrmoku: what is powerconsuming? Feb 21 14:59:49 mrmoku: blue led - 5mA Feb 21 14:59:52 IIRC one of the leds... Feb 21 15:00:09 mrmoku: it's red AUX, and only on GTA02v5 (which i have :P) Feb 21 15:00:21 mrmoku: on v5 red AUX led consumes ~50mA Feb 21 15:00:36 mrmoku: while others, and red aux on v6/v7 - ~5mA Feb 21 15:00:56 dos1: so... *you* should not want purple then ;) Feb 21 15:01:21 mrmoku: no - purple = blue power + orange power Feb 21 15:02:37 dos1: as long as it does not blink... I'm fine with it :-) Feb 21 15:03:34 mrmoku: now i'm doing it only on and for my freerunner; should i commit it? Feb 21 15:04:09 i have manual suspend on long pressing AUX too ;) Feb 21 15:05:30 dos1: well... you should ask the list (is what Ainulindale would say) :P Feb 21 15:05:39 ;D Feb 21 15:05:51 ok ;) Feb 21 15:05:52 I don't care that much about the leds (as long as they don't blink) ;) Feb 21 15:06:25 ? :D Feb 21 15:06:55 :P Feb 21 15:06:59 :( Feb 21 15:07:05 Ghooooooooooooooooooost! Feb 21 15:07:10 * Dave haunts mrmoku Feb 21 15:07:18 * mrmoku hides in the tomb Feb 21 15:07:48 * Dave haunts mrmoku with neos Feb 21 15:08:15 * mrmoku passed his 'master of the neos' exam :P Feb 21 15:08:31 hey, i am trying to get into OE. is there any search site for bb recipes? my target is a bb file for the latest kernel Feb 21 15:08:36 :D Feb 21 15:09:19 raster: elm_win_inwin_content_set() is not exported? Feb 21 15:09:38 ick Feb 21 15:09:41 that's long :p Feb 21 15:10:47 root_at: there is lots of bb's in OE :-) take a look at openembedded/packages/linux/linux-openmoko-2.6.28_git.bb Feb 21 15:11:08 Dave: like all e function names... Feb 21 15:11:22 the price for consistent naming schemes Feb 21 15:11:47 ;p Feb 21 15:11:50 ouch Feb 21 15:11:50 * mrmoku thinks consistent naming is a good thing and has fast fingers to type them quickly :-) Feb 21 15:12:00 * Dave likes your style :p Feb 21 15:13:04 * mrmoku checks what time it is in Sydney... Feb 21 15:13:15 :p Feb 21 15:13:38 hmm 2:15... might be toooo late :( Feb 21 15:13:49 too late for what? Feb 21 15:13:52 PARTY? :D Feb 21 15:13:56 for raster to respond :-) Feb 21 15:14:45 figured :) Feb 21 15:15:10 because he might be on a PARTY :P Feb 21 15:15:17 haha, dubious Feb 21 15:16:40 2009.02.21 16:15:34 ogpsd WARNING (could not write to '/sys/bus/platform/devices/neo1973-pm-gps.0/power_on': [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/sys/bus/platform/devices/neo1973-pm-gps.0/power_on') Feb 21 15:16:43 is it ok? Feb 21 15:18:54 dos1: not if you want to start gps Feb 21 15:19:02 lindi-, lo. Feb 21 15:19:04 lol* Feb 21 15:19:17 lindi-: but gps is working to me ;P Feb 21 15:19:31 lindi-: this is on starting frameworkd Feb 21 15:20:57 dos1: does frameworkd then also write to some other power_on node? Feb 21 15:24:12 dos1: what about SCORouting? Feb 21 15:25:00 PaulFertser_: ? Feb 21 15:25:16 dos1: do you know something about it? How that works, what it affects etc? Feb 21 15:25:48 PaulFertser_: there is a patch for that in fso... Feb 21 15:25:52 PaulFertser_: no, nothing Feb 21 15:26:45 PaulFertser_: bluez4: set SCORouting to PCM for om-gta02 Feb 21 15:26:48 is the commit comment Feb 21 15:27:20 dos1: it doesn't look like this setting affects hardware in any way or does it? Feb 21 15:28:22 PaulFertser_: SCORouting=PCM in audio.conf is what it does Feb 21 15:28:44 Woo, audio party Feb 21 15:30:13 mrmoku: but does it really have any effect on anything? Feb 21 15:30:19 PaulFertser_: but why are you asking me? :DD Feb 21 15:30:34 dos1: you mentioned it on channel, got my attention ;) Feb 21 15:30:45 PaulFertser_: don't know... just saw that commit Feb 21 15:30:51 need some help starting with bitbake... followed the starting article in oe wiki to set it, but when running bitbake I get "$ bitbake nano Feb 21 15:30:51 ERROR: Please set the 'PERSISTENT_DIR' or 'CACHE' variable." Feb 21 15:30:55 shoragan: ping Feb 21 15:31:02 PaulFertser_: he just told me the current tip of his OE tree Feb 21 15:31:10 mrmoku: :))) Feb 21 15:31:12 what are these variables about? Feb 21 15:31:23 PaulFertser_: :D but it was only output from git show ;] latest commit to fso/milestone5, as i needed to figure out if my buildhost is really using fso/milestone5 Feb 21 15:31:26 mrmoku: i've just woken up, not fully resumed yet :) Feb 21 15:31:32 ;D Feb 21 15:31:45 PaulFertser_: update your kernel then :P Feb 21 15:31:54 and yet you're already causing a disturbance :D Feb 21 15:32:15 Dave: thats the problem with resuming... it causes disturbance Feb 21 15:32:22 :p Feb 21 15:42:27 dos1: ok... tried it now. I have no such errors... ??? Feb 21 15:43:09 mrmoku: hmm... Feb 21 15:43:32 mrmoku: i haven't played with anything... only "make update" Feb 21 16:03:13 mrmoku: pong Feb 21 16:03:25 mrmoku: thanks for giving me write access Feb 21 16:04:51 tilman: works? Feb 21 16:06:26 didn't try yet :> Feb 21 16:06:45 tilman: ok... ping me if it does not... should though :-) Feb 21 16:13:28 hmm... all: what do you have in /sys/class/power_supply/battery/health? Feb 21 16:14:49 dos1: Good Feb 21 16:17:00 Uh, I hope it's in good health :) Feb 21 16:17:54 i have "Good" Feb 21 16:18:20 Does it go "Bad" too? :P Feb 21 16:30:45 toggles. Feb 21 17:02:59 dos1, "Good" here Feb 21 17:12:47 bat/health... hmm. might represent whether some of the protection of bq2xxx chip inside bat had triggered maybe Feb 21 17:17:48 Dave: ! Feb 21 17:21:55 Yes Feb 21 17:22:04 hmm Feb 21 17:22:27 shouldnt you be out skiing? Feb 21 17:23:30 hmm... is there possibility to do illume screen block (that black stripe) from command line? Feb 21 17:29:26 dos1: should be possible with enlightenment_remote... somehow Feb 21 17:29:58 mrmoku: what's my username? Feb 21 17:30:02 mrmoku: i'm reading enlightenment_remote, but -lock-desktop is only displaying window about no PAM support in enlightenment Feb 21 17:30:20 mrmoku: oh wait, i'm supposed to log in as 'git'. n/m Feb 21 17:30:28 tilman: :-) yep Feb 21 17:33:26 had the wrong host name in my ~/.ssh/config :] Feb 21 17:33:39 mrmoku: so yeah, it's working Feb 21 17:33:57 tilman: fine... welcome aboard then :-) Feb 21 17:34:13 let's see whether i can fix some real bugs Feb 21 17:35:52 tilman: we have a nasty, real bug that needs fixing ;) interested? Feb 21 17:36:01 depends Feb 21 17:36:29 we really need to bump EFL_SRCREV... Feb 21 17:36:32 i was thinking... can we replace the etk tree in the contacts app by an elementary list? Feb 21 17:36:42 the tiny etk scrollbar is tiny :p Feb 21 17:37:20 segfault in messages is veeeryyy weird Feb 21 17:37:28 tilman: as far as I understand it elm_list cannot do it that way... Feb 21 17:37:35 dos1: yep, indeed... Feb 21 17:38:01 is it in trac? Feb 21 17:38:38 the segfault? don't think so... it happens on newer EFL versions and we never built an official image with it because of that me thinks Feb 21 17:39:04 bbiab --> family is calling for the Pizza :-) Feb 21 17:39:13 ah, ok Feb 21 17:39:23 and after fixing that segfault... set EFL_SRCREV to AUTOREV! :DDD Feb 21 17:40:48 don't get too excited now, dos :p Feb 21 17:41:54 bug #101 seems to be fixed these days Feb 21 17:43:18 yep... #101 can be closed ;D Feb 21 18:02:00 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07fso-abyss * rf9e59f7f5fe0 10/src/serial.vala: io_add_watch_full patch has been commited upstream with changes; catch up Feb 21 18:13:16 hahahaha omg Feb 21 18:13:45 Joerg, why am I so skilled at [accidentally] stress-testing new products? :\ Feb 21 18:13:57 and subsequently breaking them and discovering bad designs Feb 21 18:14:06 s/discovering/unconvering/ Feb 21 18:14:07 Dave meant: and subsequently breaking them and unconvering bad designs Feb 21 18:14:13 lol. seems we share this gift Feb 21 18:14:19 hahaha Feb 21 18:14:31 :) Feb 21 18:14:38 Well I guess there's a little comfort there :P Feb 21 18:16:35 well sometimes it comes even handy, when discovering e.g. a way to get subway ticket for free, or how to jump lower limit of FM range in sony radio to receive police band Feb 21 18:16:39 ;S Feb 21 18:16:45 ;D Feb 21 18:16:52 hehe :D Feb 21 18:16:56 * mrmoku closed #101 Feb 21 18:16:57 I guess that's true :P Feb 21 18:17:20 but many times it ends up breaking something I use everyday, due to some poor design I uncovered Feb 21 18:21:44 * Dave waves to mickey Feb 21 18:24:04 Dave: i honestly considered making my money out of this "gift". Feb 21 18:24:32 I mean, on the one hand it always gave me the impression I'd be good at Q&A ;) Feb 21 18:24:36 or something :P Feb 21 18:25:05 well for OM I nearly arrived but disn't work in the end Feb 21 18:25:25 :\ Feb 21 18:25:52 hey doc! :) Feb 21 18:26:03 hey Feb 21 18:26:16 how goes anything resembling working directions for flashing the GTA01's gsm? ;) Feb 21 18:26:17 juri_: :) Feb 21 18:26:33 oy Feb 21 18:26:43 Are you a GTA01 user, Juri? Feb 21 18:26:49 times two. Feb 21 18:26:54 (i have two of them) Feb 21 18:26:59 heh ;) Feb 21 18:27:07 juri_: I have no gta01 (not even me! .) so hard time to do this Feb 21 18:27:09 Yeah, I've got a few freerunners, myself. Feb 21 18:27:13 hehe Feb 21 18:27:46 doc: well, if you want to run possible directions by me, i'm perfectly willing to tell tou what works, and what doesn't. ;) Feb 21 18:27:58 an do some minor gdb work. ;) Feb 21 18:28:09 anyway instructions on gsm/flashing are quite generic for both Feb 21 18:28:46 i'd do more, but i've sworn to myself i'm NOT going to be a developer on my openmoko. i'm already over my head, between my custom compiled BIOS and my 10,000 lines of kernel patch... Feb 21 18:29:01 my users would yell at me. Feb 21 18:29:14 except downloading a special fso-distri which prolly won't fit gta01, everything else should be no difference Feb 21 18:29:43 well then. can you recomend a fso distro that will fit the gta01? :) Feb 21 18:29:52 and I presume the disclaimer remains the same Feb 21 18:29:55 and, why can't we just use SHR? Feb 21 18:29:57 upgrade/flash at your own risk :D Feb 21 18:30:13 hmm, probably mickey|cinema is the one to ask Feb 21 18:30:18 or mwester Feb 21 18:30:41 ok, i'll keep an eye out for them. Feb 21 18:31:14 juri_: (shr) basically we could. but need to stop all "crap" processes then that might interfere Feb 21 18:32:28 as *we* (at OM) impossibly can tell *which* processes these might be, we recommend using FSO-console which is clean by definition Feb 21 18:33:08 juri_: just stop frameworkd and gsm0710muxd and you're safe to flash. Come on, it's not that hard. Discussed to death already. Feb 21 18:33:19 that's the whole point about fso Feb 21 18:33:30 paul: thanks. for actually providing a list. and directions. Feb 21 18:33:32 SHR based on FSO. Feb 21 18:33:41 not to be blunt, but thats what i've been *asking for*. Feb 21 18:34:15 * juri_ bites her tongue. Feb 21 18:34:50 :D Feb 21 18:34:58 * PaulFertser_ wonders why juri don't just "lsof |grep ttySAC0" Feb 21 18:35:04 I hear juri likes writing documentation ;) Feb 21 18:35:10 because no-one has *told me* that will work. Feb 21 18:35:10 juri_: if anything interferes, flashing will fail/stall. Worst thing that might happen is you need to start all over then Feb 21 18:35:25 juri_: how can it not work? Feb 21 18:35:32 instead i get quotes like 'crap that interferes'. Feb 21 18:35:42 juri_: are you using serial for the first time? Feb 21 18:35:46 how do i know the programs are using just the ttySAC0 device? Feb 21 18:35:54 PaulFertser_: don't forget nasty things like indexing services etc eating up cpu Feb 21 18:35:57 juri_: how do you care what else do they use? Feb 21 18:35:59 or not just quickly opening them and closing them? Feb 21 18:36:07 i havent written this software. Feb 21 18:36:11 DocScrutinizer2: SHR is safe, no indexing programs ;) Feb 21 18:36:24 good to hear :D Feb 21 18:36:42 paul: i know you're trying to be helpful, but dave's right. i'm a documenter. Feb 21 18:36:58 which means unless you give *exact* directions, i'm going to get very pissy quickly. Feb 21 18:36:59 juri_: you can just go through /etc/init.d dir and kill everything you don't need (that is, everything except ssh daemon). Simple as that on every distro. Feb 21 18:37:22 and the *exact* directions on the wikis are provably wrong for my device. Feb 21 18:37:24 oh great Feb 21 18:37:32 juri_: ps ax several time to make sure you don't miss anything. And that's enough. Feb 21 18:37:32 ~_~ Feb 21 18:37:32 juri_: PaulFertser_ knows perfectly to talk you through gsm-flashing. I'm away now start my "day" Feb 21 18:37:45 * Dave tranquilizes juri Feb 21 18:38:04 * juri_ needs tranquilizing. Grr. Feb 21 18:38:11 :) Feb 21 18:38:18 no i need them, to shoot at you Feb 21 18:38:45 heh Feb 21 18:38:47 Dave: you better tranquilize me to be able to help juri who is so weirdly reluctant to do what's so obvious. Feb 21 18:38:55 :D Feb 21 18:38:57 * Dave readies his darts Feb 21 18:39:46 juri_: and i think you already know that gsm modem has ROM bootloader, so you don't risk anything anyway. Feb 21 18:40:09 i already told her Feb 21 18:40:33 :P Feb 21 18:40:41 * Dave offers juri a nice cup of tea Feb 21 18:43:42 BTW, last time i flashed myself (a week ago) i used only sysfs node and ROM bootloader. Feb 21 18:43:51 sounds kinky ;p Feb 21 18:44:48 Dave: ROM bootloader should be used for all flashing anyway, i can't see why the original instructions said otherwise. Feb 21 18:45:00 yeah, I don't know *shrugs* Feb 21 18:45:24 noone knew about romboot back then :-) Feb 21 18:45:40 PaulFertser_: cause with ROM bootloader hardware flowcontrol isn't working? Feb 21 18:46:01 dos1: works without it as well Feb 21 18:46:08 hmm Feb 21 18:46:09 ;D Feb 21 18:46:38 dos is just naughty ;p Feb 21 18:46:41 DocScrutinizer2: how OM dared to release flashing instructions when they didn't know about ROM? Isn't it too risky? Feb 21 18:47:18 when we released, we knew. Instructions are much older though Feb 21 18:47:26 as usual Feb 21 18:47:40 Ah, that explains it. Feb 21 18:47:50 using FW-Bl was a "tested" procedure Feb 21 18:48:23 romboot was a bleeding edge mode for us Feb 21 18:48:45 noone ever used it before Feb 21 18:48:51 i'm learning from my master of naughtiness, Dave ;]] Feb 21 18:49:12 * DocScrutinizer2 probably should edit gsm/flashing Feb 21 18:49:27 no kidding :) Feb 21 18:49:30 dos ;D Feb 21 18:49:31 * juri_ facepalms at the 'exact' directions. Feb 21 18:49:42 ;D Feb 21 18:49:46 so, whats the safe way to kill the gsm daemon? Feb 21 18:49:47 i r teh mastar Feb 21 18:49:51 there is no gsm* init script. Feb 21 18:50:22 hm, python-elementary/shr-settings is still broken? Feb 21 18:50:57 juri_: kill -9 gsmd? Feb 21 18:51:04 i'll -15 first. Feb 21 18:51:12 Azog: was it broken? Feb 21 18:51:12 * Dave consoles juri Feb 21 18:51:15 anyway, i have to go Feb 21 18:51:20 juri_: which distro? Feb 21 18:51:29 dos1: ImportError: /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/elementary/c_elementary.so: undefined symbol: elm_list_item_show Feb 21 18:51:36 dos1: shr. Feb 21 18:51:45 bye Feb 21 18:51:46 Azog: from where you have package of python-elementary? Feb 21 18:52:03 dos1: built it myself, from shr-unstable today Feb 21 18:52:04 juri_: there's no gsmd on SHR Feb 21 18:52:16 juri_: killall -9 ophonekitd; /etc/init.d/frameworkd stop; killall gsm0710muxd Feb 21 18:52:24 1075 ? S 0:00 /usr/sbin/gsm0710muxd Feb 21 18:52:26 Azog: so it's broken, but now it's fixed Feb 21 18:52:27 juri_: dos1 is right Feb 21 18:52:37 dos1: thx i try it Feb 21 18:52:58 Azog: i've set older version in shr-autorev.inc Feb 21 18:53:31 paul: probably. i'm currently writing docs that should work, and am going through this step. by. step. the gsm0710muxd is the only thing that lsof 'knows' is accessing the device. Feb 21 18:53:48 i'll go ahead and have people kill the other two processes, as well. Feb 21 18:53:56 juri_: you're not supposed to kill it directly, it will be restarted again by frameworkd Feb 21 18:54:02 juri_: but frameworkd is accessing gsm0710muxd, and ophonekitd is accessing frameworkd ;] Feb 21 18:54:27 man fuser; /-k Feb 21 18:54:28 even though your "lsof for anything using the device and kill it" is now obviously the wrong direction. ;) Feb 21 18:54:52 http://moko.mwester.net/download/openmoko-fso-image-nox-glibc-ipk--20081108-om-gta01.rootfs.jffs2 <===== fso-based image for gta01, no X, no GSM-touching stuff at all. Feb 21 18:55:00 though I'm not sure crappy dosbox does know -k Feb 21 18:55:03 juri_: no, it's not. Feb 21 18:55:24 * jOERG_rw H*A*T*E*S dosbox Feb 21 18:55:29 juri_: you lsof, kill gsm0710muxd, it gets restarted, you look at pstree, kill everything that needs to be killed and that's all. Feb 21 18:55:33 juri_: not that hard Feb 21 18:55:51 ok, now your directions are longer, and more precise. congatulations! you might make a good documenter some day. Feb 21 18:55:58 ;) Feb 21 18:56:05 sorry, documentation is a pet peve. Feb 21 18:56:09 juri_: grab mwester's image instead if you're going to whine about directions to kill processes any further. Feb 21 18:57:14 juri_: i hate to do any documentation. And i'm not reluctant to look at the source if i don't understand something. After all, code is what works on device. Feb 21 18:58:07 i don't do without documenting. properly. call me your evil not-twin. ;) Feb 21 19:00:03 * PaulFertser_ thinks about Wu Wei Feb 21 19:00:15 shutting down frameworkd does kill gsm0710muxd. is it still important to shut down ophonekitd? Feb 21 19:00:51 I guess no, it can't restart frameworkd again. Feb 21 19:08:53 mmm I experienced the forever vibrating non-answered call in shr-unstable Feb 21 19:11:14 ok, is the link to the GSM firmware on the GSM/Flashing page current? Feb 21 19:13:05 juri_: use moko11b1 Feb 21 19:13:20 shit all this gsm firmware talk is making me want to flash mine Feb 21 19:13:28 juri_: youll find in my people drawer Feb 21 19:14:47 um, what is a 'people drawer'? Feb 21 19:15:24 people.openmoko.org/joerg Feb 21 19:15:38 kd8ikt: to flash mine made me discussion about ophonekitd bug with new firmware :D Feb 21 19:15:42 look for gsmxxx drawer Feb 21 19:15:46 when bug was fixed, i flashed ^^ Feb 21 19:15:57 look for moko11 drawer Feb 21 19:15:58 http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/calypso_moko_FW/moko11/calypso-moko11-beta1.changelog.txt Feb 21 19:16:06 ---^^ Feb 21 19:16:11 thx Feb 21 19:18:51 kd8ikt: ophoenkitd bug should be fixed Feb 21 19:19:24 phew, finally Feb 21 19:19:27 juri :P Feb 21 19:19:41 skeleton closet, anybody? Feb 21 19:19:46 heh... body Feb 21 19:20:04 huh? Feb 21 19:20:23 you must mean someone else Feb 21 19:21:22 kd8ikt: Dave sotimes suffering from coprolalie Feb 21 19:21:43 soMEtimes ;D Feb 21 19:21:48 dont know what you mean i ignored dave like a week ago Feb 21 19:22:02 sorry dave ;D Feb 21 19:22:54 :o Feb 21 19:23:00 jackass Feb 21 19:23:02 :p Feb 21 19:23:23 aaaw, very sorry! I meant dos1 not kd8ikt Feb 21 19:23:44 and a bunch of confusion :P Feb 21 19:23:47 DocScrutinizer2: but i said "when bug was fixed, i flashed ^^" :P Feb 21 19:24:23 nah, me not even here anymore. nevermind my nonsense ;D Feb 21 19:24:33 bye again Feb 21 19:43:05 http://shr-project.org/trac/wiki/Tweaks?version=36 Feb 21 19:43:33 there. directions. Feb 21 19:49:05 ROFL Feb 21 19:49:21 Man, is "overclocking" household appliances wrong? ;) Feb 21 19:50:54 juri_: congratulations. But you copied instructions part of which doesn't make sense at all and part is outdated. Now if anyone corrects OM wiki, there will still be a confusing outdated copy at SHR wiki. Is it what you call proper documentation? ;) Feb 21 19:51:15 ok! new gsm firmware on my GTA01. Feb 21 19:51:30 paul: its not a straight copy, but it is mostly your directions. Feb 21 19:52:02 and, its a distro specific version of your non-specific directions. Feb 21 19:52:29 if you don't like it, edit it. but DON'T pretend the GTA01 does not exist, or that your directions were clear. Feb 21 19:52:52 right now, those are the only GTA01 specific directions on the net. Feb 21 19:53:15 juri_: most of the content is copied from the OM wiki. And it's not plain wrong, but it's somehow clumsy, depends on particular behaviour of the sysfs node etc. Feb 21 19:53:43 paul: would you rather i did a once-over of your GSM/Flashing document? Feb 21 19:54:24 juri_: it's not mine btw. And i prefer you don't edit it heavily until you really understand all the inner workings of this procudure. Feb 21 19:54:52 juri_: i wonder how mwester managed to flash his calypso on GTA01 as soon as these flashing instructions were out. Feb 21 19:55:32 juri_: please don't be offended. Feb 21 19:56:06 juri_: probably i just don't understand you, like "Lost in translation" or smth. Feb 21 19:56:28 juri_: but you're really weird, i must admit :p Feb 21 20:01:12 Frankly, I'm a bit amused by all this. juri_'s expectations are quite reasonable when one considers the larger GTA0x user community. Consider the difficulties she has faced in getting across to the contributing community members that the procedure for do this rather-sensitive operation is inadequate... perhaps the lesson to be learned is that not only the device is not ready for anything but those willing to become "openmoko ninjas", b Feb 21 20:01:12 ut perhaps not even the community is ready for any but the "openmoko ninjas". (by "openmoko ninja" I mean those not only with the ability, but also with the time to devote) Feb 21 20:03:02 So to be honest with ourselves, perhaps the first page on the wiki needs the disclaimer: "Read no further if you lack even one of the following: Skill, Time, and Stubbornness" Feb 21 20:03:03 I'd agree _if_ there wasn't a ROM bootloader in calypso. As there is, no one is at risk of loosing anything. The instructions are quite obvious. Feb 21 20:03:34 And not distro- or device- specific. Feb 21 20:03:40 No, the instructions are nothing short of terrifying for anyone but the "ninjas". Feb 21 20:04:28 juri_ is an experienced reverse-engineer and shouldn't be terrified by such childish stuff imho Feb 21 20:04:31 The words assume a great deal of technical knowlege about GSM and embedded ARM devices. Feb 21 20:05:13 That's my point exactly PaulFertser_ --- skill is not sufficient; then clearly the wiki page is a bad page. Feb 21 20:05:53 mwester: i see nothing ARM or GSM-specific in this procedure, i might be dumb, but i don't. And yet i flashed without problems and hesitations. Feb 21 20:06:31 mwester: talking about one's skills is not sufficient; using it is, that's how i see it. Feb 21 20:07:09 I am very good with automobiles -- and I can change a tire with ease. But if the owners manual is written in such a way that it makes it sound like I will have to spend hours to locate the tools to remove the jack and tire iron, even before I can change the tire --- well, then I will be unwilling to change the tire, and it doesn't matter how good I might be with things mechanical. Feb 21 20:07:51 paul: i'm not terified. i just want directions. Feb 21 20:07:54 mwester: i wonder why i wasn't afraid with this instructions? Just read and did, that's all. Didn't even reflash anything. Feb 21 20:08:15 Again we disagree PaulFertser_ --- in your world, the user does not fit. I shall continue discussions no further; I shall honor the virtual "NO TRESPASSING" sign that you hang outside of the Openmoko world, and I'll be happy with the mere mortals who are not allowed in. Feb 21 20:08:21 mwester: probably as you did. Any distro's ok. Feb 21 20:08:23 Adios. Feb 21 20:09:00 mwester: please don't honor any (and all) my signs, as they doesn't matter anything for OM world. Feb 21 20:09:21 especially as this is a binary blob, i'm not very comfortable working with it. ;P Feb 21 20:09:33 mwester: i'm speaking _only_ for myself. From my twisted inadequate non-realistic point of view, please take that into account. Feb 21 20:09:34 * juri_ works in the free software world, as defined by RMS. ;) Feb 21 20:10:20 mwester: i live in my own private world and i don't pretend to have any impact on OM whatsoever and don't want to hang out any signs. Feb 21 20:12:21 mwester: moreover please take into account cultural and language differences, i really have no idea how nice USA or European people should communicate. Feb 21 20:16:48 tilman: ping Feb 21 20:16:51 Has nothing to do with culture or language -- it is a very simple matter of attitude to those who do not know as much, or those who do not have the time to invest --- these traits are characteristic of those people we call "users", and my perspective on users is that they pay the bills. Therefore I take into consideration when they have trouble with pages. And I also value the opinion of the experts who choose not to invest time -- they Feb 21 20:16:51 too have valid complaints, because no one person can be an expert on everything. Feb 21 20:17:42 So to have expectations that a wiki page can be sloppy, because a) everyone using the phone had better be "smart enough" or b) everyone using the phone had better be willing to invest hours and hours to gain knowlege about it ---- well, that thinking is just wrong. Feb 21 20:17:54 :) Feb 21 20:18:02 Expectations run low 'round these here parts. Feb 21 20:18:05 :] Feb 21 20:18:48 And let's not anyone think that this problem is limited to the GSM flashing page -- consider the horrible pages on NAND/NOR uboot usage -- which has most every user doing it WRONG!! Feb 21 20:19:43 I was trying to be nice and to help without writing documentation :( Feb 21 20:20:00 IMO, there IS one thing that's worse than missing documentation, and that is obsolete information -- which is another area of our wiki that is a crime. Feb 21 20:20:42 Clearly whoever is in charge of the wiki has given up ;-) Feb 21 20:21:17 I don't like to write documentation, i think that's ok that i don't do it. And i don't want to sound stupid like Brenda because of my "english". So, i'm trying to help with advices and technical "knowledge". Feb 21 20:21:20 I could go in and mark up each page that I see to be obsolete, but since that would probably be half the wiki, someone would probably decide I was defacing it, and ban me! Feb 21 20:22:08 :) Feb 21 20:22:17 mrmoku: pong Feb 21 20:23:08 And i can't understand the most issues users face anyway. I never read nand/nor page before (and probably even after booting/flashing Qi etc) and somehow i didn't have any issues with using it properly. Feb 21 20:23:13 tilman: did you have a closer look at elementary lists? Feb 21 20:23:22 not at all Feb 21 20:24:17 if I understand them correctly one list entry consists of an arbitrary widget, a label and another arbitrary widget... which means something like the message list or the contact lists cannot be done with it Feb 21 20:24:48 * mrmoku hopes to have understood wrong though... Feb 21 20:24:49 * mwester resolves to add a proper gta01 gsm flashing section to the wiki, since most every gta01 need reflashing to be useful at all... Feb 21 20:25:13 please note: gsm flashing never has been (and maybe enver will be) an official recommendation of OM. The wiki is fine for me the way it is, as we don't want people to follow it if they feel incomfortable with the amount of skills and knowledge need prerequisite for messing with calypso flashing Feb 21 20:25:13 mrmoku: but it can be done with Genlist Feb 21 20:25:14 earth-rotational-speed--; Feb 21 20:25:39 dos1: yeah... wanted to take a look at genlist next :-) Feb 21 20:25:44 * mwester kicks OM for stupidity. Feb 21 20:26:27 Sell and ship broken hardware, develop workarounds that require flashing and soldering, provide NO alternatives, and then they think they can get away with "no official recommendation". Feb 21 20:26:33 dos1: are you sure something like the message list can be done with it? Feb 21 20:26:42 what's genlist? Feb 21 20:27:20 mrmoku, tilman: with genlist? i think yes; today i read http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/wiki/Elementary and now i see elementary has many of new hot stuff Feb 21 20:27:26 mwester: thanks for your comment Feb 21 20:27:28 bye Feb 21 20:27:37 * dos1 wants new EFL_SRCREV!!! Feb 21 20:27:46 dos1: I agree Feb 21 20:27:48 :) Feb 21 20:27:58 * tilman used to work on the efl 4 years ago Feb 21 20:28:18 dos1: do you guys have a scrolling problem? Feb 21 20:28:52 dos1: though... looking at the elementary_test source code I'm not sure... Feb 21 20:30:12 hmm, USB is frustratingly complex Feb 21 20:30:40 mrmoku: "Not finished yet. Generic list. More work to use that List, but able to hold many more items with much more flexible layouts etc. " Feb 21 20:31:02 mirko-paroli: which scrolling problem? Feb 21 20:31:21 dos1: i have a scrolling problem in etk Feb 21 20:32:08 dos1: the scrollview to be precise Feb 21 20:32:26 but maybe I simply misinterpreted your discussion Feb 21 20:32:32 mirko-paroli: which problem with scrollview? :D Feb 21 20:32:46 it doesn't register drag events Feb 21 20:33:07 dos1: yeah... though thats the future then :P Feb 21 20:33:17 I would need something now :( Feb 21 20:33:30 dos1: btw. you looked also into the SMS segfault thingie? Feb 21 20:34:11 no, but my skills in C and debugging are... very... hmm... oh, ok, i don't have any skills in debugging :P Feb 21 20:34:41 mwester: btw wasn't gta0q *clearly* marketed as "developers only"? So you're telling me the ability to apply gsm/flashing instructions properly for gta01 isn't one of the skills we could expect to see at developers? cool... :-( Feb 21 20:34:49 i see... we're doomed then :P Feb 21 20:34:54 dos1: got a backtrace? Feb 21 20:35:05 s/0q/01/ Feb 21 20:35:06 DocScrutinizer2 meant: mwester: btw wasn't gta01 *clearly* marketed as "developers only"? So you're telling me the ability to apply gsm/flashing instructions properly for gta01 isn't one of the skills we could expect to see at developers? cool... :-( Feb 21 20:35:31 tilman: if you want a backtrace... can give you one... ends somewhere in eina_list stuff Feb 21 20:36:58 Oh don't worry. I cut and pasted the "Openmoko disclaimer", which I'll be sure to put in the gsm flashing page. Because we certainly wouldn't want anyone to think negatively about anything Openmoko has done. Feb 21 20:37:14 Perhaps I should add an intelligence test as well? Feb 21 20:37:24 if u cant debug, make it a feature *fg* http://files.myopera.com/freejerk/files/bug-feature.jpg Feb 21 20:37:39 mrmoku: giev! ;) Feb 21 20:38:25 "Dear user: openmoko wishes to ensure that their users are smart enough, so please answer these questions. If you do not pass this test, you will be denied the right to turn your device into something slightly more useful than the brick we shipped you originally." Feb 21 20:38:46 tilman: http://pastebin.com/d4021f9fa Feb 21 20:38:54 what a morning Feb 21 20:39:50 what abou "if you buy it, you own it"? Feb 21 20:39:51 mwester: how long does it take you to realize it's a brick and return it for full refund? Feb 21 20:40:07 And if anyone wants to get into arguments about the intended audience, I think I still have the screen captures of the original openmoko web site, from back when I was having arguments with Steve about refunds. Feb 21 20:40:11 Steve refused. Feb 21 20:40:12 * DocScrutinizer2 pissed. Feb 21 20:40:16 away Feb 21 20:40:19 hence I'm still around, making your life miserable. Feb 21 20:41:52 mwester: you wouldn't be the guy who sold my frerunner on ebay the day it was delivered? Feb 21 20:41:53 mrmoku: raster saw this backtrace? Feb 21 20:41:57 *gg* Feb 21 20:44:39 btw i've seen the whole return-list of support. reasons like "too complex for me". So it's up to you to ponder what went wrong when you tried to give yours back. Don't pester me with objections about not inventing magic spells to fix hw-issues. Utterly stupig argumentation this Feb 21 20:46:26 speaking of hardware fixes :) any ideas how should i proceed with the buzz fix? i don't have torx screwdriver or lead-free tin. i do have velleman soldering station though Feb 21 20:47:06 lead-free tin? what for? use SnPb Feb 21 20:47:19 neobaka: well the instructions say so Feb 21 20:47:51 neobaka: it's strongly discouraged because melting points are different. Feb 21 20:48:16 lindi-: i used regular flat screwdriver successfully instead Feb 21 20:49:08 its strongly bullshit because a new eutectic point will form. btw lead-free is not only one solder type Feb 21 20:50:23 Joerg, yeah, I never figured you for much of a sorcerer ;) Feb 21 20:50:34 Oh, and we thank you, Mwester :) Feb 21 20:50:44 neobaka: i say it because Doc said it, he knows better than me. (to be honest, i used usual SnPb instead, too much of a hassle to get pbfree) Feb 21 20:50:53 neobaka: yup. and new eutectic point is above the melting point of the lead on your iron. nice to have it sticked to the pad covered with RoHS solder Feb 21 20:50:56 okay, to be precise, it would be discouraged to use SnPb together with Bismuth because the solder-joint will be brittle Feb 21 20:51:45 jOERG_rw: and if i ensure that the iron is hot enough to melt pbfree? Feb 21 20:51:52 joerg, it will melt through. you never solder with a tip only at the melting point Feb 21 20:52:04 (before touching pbfree) Feb 21 20:52:09 i took my gta02 apart for the first time the other day Feb 21 20:52:12 dos1: don't think raster saw it... talked with him about it though Feb 21 20:52:25 he said it might be threading related Feb 21 20:52:30 lead-free melts at 217°C, so the temperature increase should be 25K compared to SnPb Feb 21 20:52:59 * kd8ikt drilled a bigger mic hole and a new hole in the front faceplate Feb 21 20:53:09 CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW! Feb 21 20:53:19 Wonderful. Feb 21 20:53:21 ;D Feb 21 20:54:07 whoa, now i'm awake kd8ikt Feb 21 20:54:45 good cause we're in the thick of it now Feb 21 20:55:16 DocScrutinizer2: any idea how easy it would be to convince some phone repair shop do the soldering for me? Feb 21 20:55:17 the eye of the storm, the main nerve, center of the vortex Feb 21 20:55:54 there are phone repair shops? i figured phones these days where like bic lighters Feb 21 20:56:17 every 1-2 years its time to re-up Feb 21 20:56:51 haha Feb 21 20:56:57 too true Feb 21 20:57:23 wpwrak: Hi :) i have a GTA02v7-related question. Looks like the new hw revision will need the kernel update in quite a few places. Is it really how it should be handled? Feb 21 20:57:47 lindi-: I would suggest to look for an RC-plane hobbyist. they deal wit SMD a lot ;) Feb 21 20:58:35 neobaka: might be good idea Feb 21 21:01:15 indeed, didn't thought about that one Feb 21 21:02:38 firstly i want HW fix for AUX led on GTA02v5 :P Feb 21 21:03:09 aux led? what's wrong with it? Feb 21 21:03:10 after that, bass fix for headset; after that buzz fix and sd-gps fix Feb 21 21:03:20 neobaka: it is power hungry Feb 21 21:03:28 neobaka: red aux led consumed 50 mA Feb 21 21:03:29 dos1: sd-gps fix? Feb 21 21:03:33 consumes* Feb 21 21:03:34 ah okay Feb 21 21:04:08 lindi-: that capacitor on sd reader, firstly to get rid of interferences with GPS Feb 21 21:04:25 i thought that the fix for the headset would be too difficult, so i bought an a2dp bluetooth reciever in which i can plug any headphones i want (3.5mm jack) Feb 21 21:04:26 i wonder how they managed to do that. any regular led will fry with more than 20mA Feb 21 21:04:31 lindi-: v6 has it; but with that capacitor SD reader can work with faster clock Feb 21 21:05:15 so i guess my aux led wont last for long Feb 21 21:05:25 sd-card fix is the easoest. with a steady hand you dont even need to unscrew the case Feb 21 21:05:51 dos1: but isn't the software fix ok? Feb 21 21:06:14 lindi-: for GPS yes; for faster clock no ;] Feb 21 21:06:17 lindi-: for me it wasn't Feb 21 21:06:27 even for gps Feb 21 21:07:01 neobaka: it isn't fix related; it must be failure with your software :P maybe with agps on ogpsd Feb 21 21:07:03 ...well it was fixed bedore the sw ^^ Feb 21 21:07:44 dos1: how much faster will it be with the fix? Feb 21 21:08:08 Zorkman: now the greatest clock value is 16666666 i think... with fix it can be 20000000 Feb 21 21:09:04 it was written in commit, which was introducing sd_max_clock parameter in kernel Feb 21 21:10:21 dos1: do you really need that faster clock? Feb 21 21:10:27 lindi-: no :D Feb 21 21:10:38 don't fix the hardware if it aint broken ;) Feb 21 21:10:54 lindi-: so that fix is on last place of most wanted fixes to me :D Feb 21 21:11:02 I think my cheapo sdcard would turn to smoke ^^ Feb 21 21:11:47 i only need the gsm buzz fix Feb 21 21:12:05 raster: ping Feb 21 21:12:13 same here, gsm buzz is very annoying Feb 21 21:12:31 i need aux led fix; after that headset bass and after that buzz fix, as buzz isn't affecting me and my caller more often than on my nokia 6230i :P Feb 21 21:13:10 dos1: what are you using aux led for? Feb 21 21:13:37 doc left didnt he Feb 21 21:13:58 lindi-: i *want* to use it in future Feb 21 21:14:07 maybe i'm being a bit unfair but isn't FIC a large mobile manufacturer? maybe the spinoff just should have asked to get the pcb-layout from them *eg* Feb 21 21:14:28 dos1: FYI mickey says these settings sound ok to him even without a fix (can't understand how that can be possible but nevertheless): http://pastebin.com/m73c36417 Feb 21 21:14:32 cause i was just reading http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/GSM_EMI_noise/big-C_rework_SOP_rc2.pdf and i'm liek omfg thats easy if that fixes my buzz then i'm all over it Feb 21 21:15:31 kd8ikt: and it fixes it for good. Feb 21 21:15:39 have you done it? Feb 21 21:15:53 kd8ikt: unfortunately my coworker didn't let me do it myself Feb 21 21:16:12 aslong as he didnt brick it... Feb 21 21:16:50 lol paul... i know EXACTLY what you mean... "let me do it, I can do that better" Feb 21 21:16:50 kd8ikt: he's a soldering guy, it's his job after all. Feb 21 21:17:17 neobaka: no, i don't fool myself thinking i can do it better :) Feb 21 21:17:56 "but its my phone" -- "but you'll breal it, let me do it" -- "okay" Feb 21 21:17:59 neobaka: but as he didn't let me do that fix i soldered caps for bass fix instead, have you seen it? Feb 21 21:18:30 it'd be nice if om sent me the components ;D Feb 21 21:18:34 no, did you take photos of it? Feb 21 21:19:00 neobaka: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA02_bass_fix Feb 21 21:19:07 Our beloved wiki Feb 21 21:19:51 wow that looks nasty Feb 21 21:19:59 hm okay, i just missed it somehow oO" Feb 21 21:20:00 kd8ikt: btw, if you have difficulties finding 0402 R, you can use 0603 instead (soldering the lower side to the ground plane). Feb 21 21:20:09 PaulFertser_: hmm, what's 'bass 80'? Feb 21 21:20:54 fricken exposed uninsulated wires dangling around Feb 21 21:21:06 ugh i'll pass ;) Feb 21 21:21:06 lindi-: That's how alsamixer shows alsa control "Bass Volume" and 80 is the "value" on the scale from 0 to 127 probably Feb 21 21:21:13 kd8ikt: uninsulated? Feb 21 21:21:18 (bass fix) Feb 21 21:21:32 its painted wires *duh* Feb 21 21:21:54 oh some sort of thin coating? Feb 21 21:22:10 hehe Feb 21 21:22:14 Varnish Feb 21 21:22:15 i dont know how they are called, but yeah Feb 21 21:22:42 That's a wire from some transformer, afair. Feb 21 21:22:43 yeah still nothanx unless you want to do it for me with a refund when you destroy it ;D Feb 21 21:22:55 That insulation is really enough. Feb 21 21:23:16 hm, it looks... ugly... sorry oO" Feb 21 21:24:06 I'm going to do more testing with this fix soon. Like compare the sound with and without. And verify WiFi signal reception. And apply foil for shielding. Feb 21 21:24:23 PaulFertser_: just tested, does not help here Feb 21 21:24:49 neobaka: i couldn't find a better way. Caps are just too big to fit under the can. Could you suggest anything better? Feb 21 21:25:02 lindi-: i don't believe in magic too. Tell that mickey|cinema :) Feb 21 21:25:24 mickey|cinema: http://iki.fi/lindi/tmp/a.state did not help Feb 21 21:26:23 i need to replace my alsa states they got corrupted somehoe Feb 21 21:30:00 neobaka: no, really, i'm open to suggestions as i'm going to tweak it further Feb 21 21:30:55 fucking statefiles Feb 21 21:30:56 DocScrutinizer2: if only openmoko could send me the two components i need and small quantity of lead-free tin i could do this fix :) Feb 21 21:31:32 hm, there are tantalums without molding, but then insulation is more difficult Feb 21 21:31:41 neobaka: the only suggestions Joerg gave me after seeing it are "i'd twist the wires" and "check you didn't hurt WiFi". Feb 21 21:32:23 why the no lead? Feb 21 21:32:54 to not violate the RoHS-status maybe? Feb 21 21:33:04 neobaka: i'm going to apply a paper/tin-foil (from a candy) to shield the caps anyway. Feb 21 21:33:33 heh Feb 21 21:33:50 scew RoHS compliance Feb 21 21:34:11 neobaka: as for now they pick up quite a lot of GSM :) I can't say i don't like it, i can always hear when my GPRS is active :) Feb 21 21:34:11 there must be another reason Feb 21 21:34:34 kd8ikt: no, you can't do consumer electronics without RoHS nowadays, afaik. Feb 21 21:34:55 well if its me an end user messing with my toy... Feb 21 21:35:05 ...if you want to sell it, that is ^^ Feb 21 21:35:23 ah cause that doc is also meant for distributers Feb 21 21:35:35 but bass filter 100Hz @ 16kHz or 100Hz @ 8kHz Feb 21 21:36:23 ? Feb 21 21:36:34 dos1: ? Feb 21 21:36:40 dos1: i can explain that one Feb 21 21:37:33 dos1: it's bass filter cut-off frequency Feb 21 21:37:50 dos1: and the actual result of the setting depends on rate Feb 21 21:38:37 dos1: 200Hz at 8kHz and the same setting gives 1200Hz at 48kHz Feb 21 21:39:09 dos1: 22Hz at 8kHz the same as 130Hz at 48kHz Feb 21 21:39:50 dos1: page 37, 38 of the datasheet Feb 21 21:42:11 400@48kHz shown in the middle by alsamixer looks weird but it's like that in the datasheet. They should have written 133.3 at 16kHz instead obviously. Feb 21 21:45:13 holy crap Feb 21 21:45:42 anyone knows Vala ? This code doesn't compile because of Signal.connect() : http://valadoc.org/paste.php?id=254 . the error is ERROR:arraylist.c:177:gee_array_list_real_get: assertion failed: (_tmp0) ... I don't get it Feb 21 21:45:44 kd8ikt: just how hardware works. The driver exposes the interface to registers almost raw. Feb 21 21:45:52 why is my entire filesystem on my moko dated creation 1969 Feb 21 21:46:11 maybe thats why i see that as my gps date sometimes in tangogps Feb 21 21:46:41 kd8ikt: isn't that when unix time starts counting? Feb 21 21:46:56 epoch Feb 21 21:47:00 that starts counting jan 1 1970 Feb 21 21:47:11 something like that Feb 21 21:47:21 oh this is just freaky Feb 21 21:47:38 using an shr image Feb 21 21:47:47 (friday 13 februari it was 1234567890 unix time :)) Feb 21 21:48:15 febuary Feb 21 21:48:27 february * Feb 21 21:48:45 yes Feb 21 21:48:47 unless of course you are mixing languages Feb 21 21:49:05 i'm just a lazy and lousy in writing english, sorry Feb 21 21:49:10 -a Feb 21 21:52:48 must be a lack of those permissions when created eh? so the system gives it a 0 date? Feb 21 22:06:02 PaulFertser_: do you know if there is some kernel framework that'd let me get a function trace of what happens when I do read() on /dev/gadget/ep3-int? Feb 21 22:06:25 PaulFertser_: things like 'ep->ops->queue(ep, req, gfp_flags);' are really hard to follow when I don't know where the pointers point to at runtime Feb 21 22:08:05 lindi-: i don't know, sorry Feb 21 22:08:38 i'll ask #kernelnewbies Feb 21 22:09:16 PaulFertser_: are 6.8V voltage enough for the caps? Feb 21 22:09:27 neobaka: yes Feb 21 22:10:30 then you should go ceramic: muRata GRM31 6.8V 100uF and 1206 only :) Feb 21 22:14:17 PaulFertser_: there seems to be ftrace which looks neat: http://free-electrons.com/kerneldoc/latest/ftrace.txt Feb 21 22:15:23 lindi-: very cool, thanks for the info :) Feb 21 22:16:32 i'll test it Feb 21 22:19:43 neobaka: yes, thanks. And digikey.com search can show all that info easily. But this part is not exactly common enough here. Feb 21 22:22:59 btw. why in dialer in libframeworkd-phonegui-efl there is no visual feedback for clicking on numbers? Feb 21 22:23:24 it was some time ago... Feb 21 22:24:35 dos1: hmm, you're right... new EFL? Feb 21 22:26:30 mrmoku: maybe... Feb 21 22:30:26 mrmoku: but maybe it is that commit: http://git.shr-project.org/git/?p=shr.git;a=commit;h=b6ce6748b15b9c1215279771681f819d1bfadc7c Feb 21 22:31:13 hmm, no Feb 21 22:31:19 it isn't that commit :x Feb 21 22:32:11 unfortunately, what i dont quite get ist why there is some kind of voltage divider at the output path. if you could reduce R4405/7, the cap could be reduced also. but i'm to tired to dig into the serial port dual-use feature oO" Feb 21 22:39:31 neobaka: i can say that there is no need for serial part dual use. Feb 21 22:40:11 neobaka: U4401 should be ripped out completely Feb 21 22:40:54 neobaka: R4405/4407 should be shorted (i think one can do it even without desoldering U4401). Feb 21 22:41:12 neobaka: there is no need to access that port ever, as everything can be done from the serial attached to SoC. Feb 21 22:44:53 nice settins-app look' s better now :) Feb 21 22:48:46 PaulFertser_: maybe i was mislead with the R reduction. but anyway: are those Rs outside the shield-box? then I would suggest to put the caps there and shorten the two inside the box Feb 21 23:05:46 neobaka: joerg, it will melt through. you never solder with a tip only at the melting point. >>It's only a recommendation, not a mandatory advice Feb 21 23:07:20 DocScrutinizer2: any idea how easy it would be to convince some phone repair >>no idea. The info in SOP should sufice for any moderately skilled repair shop Feb 21 23:08:25 jOERG_rw: what about getting om ship me the required components? ;) Feb 21 23:09:01 PaulFertser_: A7 has no real hw-differences to A6. Only correct statefile needed. Broken ones won't work Feb 21 23:10:01 neobaka: red aux led consumed 50 mA >>nope, never a sibgle device sold with this issue Feb 21 23:10:47 jOERG_rw: But the question is: is A7 a different ATAG revision? Feb 21 23:14:09 DocScrutinizer2: if only openmoko could send me the two >>you're welcome to send me free selfaddressed envelope Feb 21 23:14:35 :D Feb 21 23:15:15 you work too hard joerg Feb 21 23:16:10 duh, no ;-) Feb 21 23:18:03 * PaulFertser_ thinks about why writing even a small change requires so much effort. Think about various revisions, think about startup conditions, test this and that, face broken userspace... Feb 21 23:18:20 PaulFertser_: (different ATAG revision) hm, ATAG? we got new hw-code on the three GPIO for A7 Feb 21 23:19:11 PaulFertser_: YUP ;-) same on hw-side Feb 21 23:19:12 jOERG_rw: that bothers me a lot. Look at http://pastebin.com/m2436f466 , that is not the only place with a similar contruct Feb 21 23:19:55 duh Feb 21 23:20:11 what's that (in) ? Feb 21 23:21:03 That's control of GSM power. Obviously any revision after v1 has that implemented. Feb 21 23:21:08 checked pcf50633_gpio2? what it's supposed to do? Feb 21 23:21:28 Power on the calypso Feb 21 23:21:29 :) Feb 21 23:21:46 ah ok. numb coder another time probably Feb 21 23:21:50 :-/ Feb 21 23:22:33 or he knew details about difference tween schem and BOM I'm not aware Feb 21 23:23:04 to best of my knowledge this particular construct is absolute nonsense Feb 21 23:23:07 Nope, v7 is not mentioned in the sources at all. Feb 21 23:24:19 And there's like 5 or more another constructs like that, unfortunately. Feb 21 23:24:21 ahh sorry (not very used to c-code recently ;) Feb 21 23:24:48 nope that's just documentation purposes and probably missing an "else:" Feb 21 23:25:51 or an "case GTA02v7_SYSTEM_REV: ; case GTA02v8_SYSTEM_REV:;" Feb 21 23:26:42 utterly nonsense to distinguish for different sub-revisions if they are identical. Even worse to forget about future revisions like A7/8 Feb 21 23:27:32 resembles constructs like "if (boll_xy == true)..." Feb 21 23:27:42 s/oll/ool/ Feb 21 23:27:43 jOERG_rw meant: resembles constructs like "if (bool_xy == true)..." Feb 21 23:28:15 poor coding skills, or bad style Feb 21 23:28:15 As far as i see it, the action will not be performed on any future revision not explicitly mentioned. Feb 21 23:28:24 yup Feb 21 23:28:29 that's what I say Feb 21 23:29:15 preprogrammed GSM-power handling bug for gta02A7 :-( Feb 21 23:29:30 braindamaged Feb 21 23:30:41 PaulFertser_: I recommend killing the whole "switch(){}" just replacing it by gpio call inside Feb 21 23:31:42 or add a "case *:" Feb 21 23:31:43 I won't touch it for now, because it's not the only place in the kernel where this weird construct is present. Feb 21 23:31:55 It's called "default:" :) Feb 21 23:31:59 :-//// eeeeew Feb 21 23:32:05 sorry Feb 21 23:32:20 too many coding languages mixed together in my head Feb 21 23:32:51 (eew) -> (kernel) Feb 21 23:33:38 who chacked that in? who signed it? Feb 21 23:34:10 WTF, now Im even urged to proofread kernel patches :-( Feb 21 23:34:45 [2009-02-22 00:15:58] you work too hard joerg Feb 21 23:34:46 [2009-02-22 00:16:53] duh, no ;-) Feb 21 23:34:48 [ Feb 21 23:34:52 ok seems you're right Feb 21 23:35:46 PaulFertser_: file a BIIIG ticket on this, pleeease! Feb 21 23:35:58 jOERG_rw: looks like Harald did Feb 21 23:36:09 OMG ;-/ Feb 21 23:37:00 (ticket) find at least 3 of those buggers and quote them Feb 21 23:37:21 * jOERG_rw considers vomiting Feb 21 23:38:00 jOERG_rw: And also Andy and Balaji did similar things. I even start to think that might be just me who understands it wrong... Feb 21 23:38:27 nah, me doesn't know any better. Looks utterly odd Feb 21 23:39:45 there might be reasons if we have differences tha need different handling for A5 vs A6 e.g (though I'm not really aware of any). Omitting A7 or any default: is bad style anyway Feb 21 23:40:18 s/A7/A7,8/ Feb 21 23:40:18 jOERG_rw meant: there might be reasons if we have differences tha need different handling for A5 vs A6 e.g (though I'm not really aware of any). Omitting A7,8 or any default: is bad style anyway Feb 21 23:40:21 Looks like policy thing. Explicitly specify revision everywhere. If unknown revision -- do nothing. Feb 21 23:40:59 what a nonsense (policy). That's what I meant with documentation purposes Feb 21 23:41:20 documentation introducing real bugs for nothing Feb 21 23:41:38 numb coder syndrome Feb 21 23:42:27 if unknown revision -- do best guess / default Feb 21 23:42:37 that's about correct policy Feb 21 23:42:56 OR throw kernel OOPS Feb 21 23:43:33 That's what they do -- nothing. Should have included something like if rev >= a5 then Feb 21 23:43:46 that's so incredibly wrong I don't find words any appropriate state of mind to transition to Feb 21 23:44:19 * jOERG_rw away to calm down ;-) Feb 21 23:45:18 (That's what they do) nope, they dn't do default which ispcf50633_gpio_set evidentally Feb 21 23:45:39 they don't throw any error either Feb 21 23:45:51 and also it's no best guess for sure Feb 21 23:46:10 it's nothing but just braindead Feb 21 23:50:27 btw a nice examply why I hate C. You can writedown each and every crap and it compiles without urging you to think about it Feb 21 23:51:34 I can cope with this. I can't cope with code obfuscated and screwed like this though Feb 22 00:25:12 PaulFertser_: you could oss me some pointers incl line# so I might look at the misery myself ;-) Feb 22 00:25:21 Toss Feb 22 00:26:35 PaulFertser_: if you file a ticket, don't forget to CC me please Feb 22 00:27:23 DocScrutinizer: arch/arm/mach-s3c2442/mach-gta02.c Feb 22 00:27:49 DocScrutinizer: just search for GTA02v5_SYSTEM_REV there Feb 22 00:28:08 which branch etc? Feb 22 00:29:08 DocScrutinizer: andy-tracking , as usual :) Feb 22 00:29:13 k Feb 22 00:29:58 BTW, flashing with modified sysfs power_on (without touching pmu and gpio directly) works. Feb 22 00:35:12 DocScrutinizer: though sometimes the calypso misses the fluid's requests. And it corresponds to what other people writtent that they had to power-cycle the modem several times. Feb 22 00:40:03 might be race in protocol negotiation Feb 22 00:40:05 Always works second time though, seems that probability of missing this request is low enough (like 0.1 or less). Feb 22 00:40:19 good to hear it works basically for sysfs though Feb 22 00:40:21 :-) Feb 22 00:41:26 It worked before btw. Feb 22 00:41:50 After all, modem was usable. It could be turned on and off with sysfs too :) Feb 22 00:49:34 DocScrutinizer: https://paulfertser.is-a-geek.org/files/0001-GTA0-12-fix-calypso-sysfs-power_on-handling.patch Feb 22 00:51:29 keeewl :-) Feb 22 00:51:43 PaulFertser_: O/ Feb 22 00:52:20 DocScrutinizer: should i send it now? I'm afraid i might have forgotten something, cause it's 3:52am here Feb 22 00:52:45 duh, mompl Feb 22 00:59:16 hmm, maybe let's test it with some standard distri like MS5.5 tomorrow? check for propper powerup/down of modem with standard means (by testing it's realy down after powerdown and up after powerup) Feb 22 00:59:35 PaulFertser_: anyway the mere patch is hard to read for me ;-) Feb 22 00:59:44 DocScrutinizer: already did Feb 22 00:59:50 have no environment here Feb 22 01:00:04 did? Feb 22 01:00:10 send patch or test? Feb 22 01:00:16 DocScrutinizer: tested with MS5 Feb 22 01:01:07 so yeah go ahead I'd say. I just sent a mail about case() madness, you've been CCd. So it's the perfect moment to send the patch :-) Feb 22 01:01:42 DocScrutinizer: also i mentioned that GSM flashing was tested on GTA02 and that you deserve the credit for all the info to implement this patch. Feb 22 01:02:10 thanks a lot. Might help eventualy ;-) Feb 22 01:08:39 DocScrutinizer: btw, i listened to the first 2 albums of Gentle Giant about 5 times or more already. Feb 22 01:08:56 :-) Feb 22 01:09:03 like it? seems... Feb 22 01:09:35 Like it. Though progressive is not my favourite style, (so as artrock) i don't like ELO i.e. Feb 22 01:11:14 And my mistake was to read a wikipedia article before actually listening. Because of that i was expecting something less rocky and more academic-like. Moreover, tried to find "kontrapunkt" in every track Feb 22 01:11:53 Ah, and expected to hear more flute (seems to be my favourite wind-blown instrument). :) Feb 22 01:12:52 But once heard for enough times, GG's music started to make sense for me. Feb 22 01:13:00 DocScrutinizer: so thanks a lot! :) Feb 22 01:15:23 hmm, seen Andy's response? Probably some nasty hack in *.h, that's what's called ",aking yourself irreplaceable" :-/ Feb 22 01:16:13 Yeah, just read it. Werner says "good catch" and Andy says can't go wrong :) Feb 22 01:16:24 I'm temped to answer OWTTE to him, but that'd start another endless flamewar and wouldn't buy me anything Feb 22 01:17:38 so... nevermind. Seems there's no common language between me and Andy anymore :-( Feb 22 01:18:21 really hate his constatnt bitching and sarcasm in any of his replies Feb 22 01:18:28 Let's see what Werner will answer him. I see no fancy magic in .h file anyway. It's plain #define . Feb 22 01:18:52 And this value comes straight from the bootloader. Feb 22 01:19:10 maybe a #define (A6 ||A7 || A8) ? Feb 22 01:19:47 #define GTA02v6_SYSTEM_REV 0x00000360 Feb 22 01:19:49 even worse: maybe an bitc)oded implicit one (didn't look at it yet Feb 22 01:20:30 And "system_rev = tag->u.revision.rev;" in arch/arm/kernel/setup.c Feb 22 01:20:31 hpfff.... Feb 22 01:21:15 could you please answer "please elaborate!" ? Feb 22 01:22:38 I don't know politics. I guess Werner will ask him about it anyway. Or he will reply to Werner. So, i can, but will it be any good? As i might be wrong too :) Feb 22 01:23:39 BTW, i seen Andy on IRC here from Nelson's client two days ago. Feb 22 01:23:47 nah, a "please elaborate. Enlighten us great master" never can fail Feb 22 01:24:05 nevermind Feb 22 01:24:23 no secrets here Feb 22 01:24:25 Hm, he's already applied my patch Feb 22 01:24:33 no intention to ping him as well Feb 22 01:25:12 :) Feb 22 01:28:40 (sarcasm) probably another tool to ",ake yourself irreplaceable" by scaring off all coworkers. Well at least for me it worked Feb 22 01:29:21 My guess is that he was a bit turned on by the words "bug in kernel" and "showstopper"... Feb 22 01:30:02 I'm trying to be tolerant to any way of experssing opinions, including sarcasm. Though sometimes it becomes really hard to tolerate some people, i agree... Feb 22 01:36:10 Well, he explained everything, you see. Feb 22 01:36:42 OMG Feb 22 01:36:45 It's not really a showstoper because of weird bootloaders behaviour :) Feb 22 01:37:00 :-/ Feb 22 01:37:36 Do not let the kernel know that it's running on a new revision -> no problems :) Feb 22 01:37:45 it is though for old bootloader and Qi, and it's utterly wrond, odd, and weird another time Feb 22 01:38:34 Looks like Qi will return v5 because it looks only at the lower bit :) Feb 22 01:39:03 Even more funny Feb 22 01:39:39 First Werner's suggestion is what basically i said and what seems to be the most sane way to do this stuff. Feb 22 01:39:40 especially as it was Andy and nobody else who suggested to detect A7 and have dedicated statefiles by symlinks created at boottime. No idea how rootfs is supposed to determine it's running on an A7 this way Feb 22 01:39:52 LOL Feb 22 01:42:14 To be more fair though, i must say that the kernel has it's own function gta02_get_pcb_revision that is probably used for /proc/cpuinfo Feb 22 01:45:41 cat /sys/bus/platform/drivers/neo1973-version/neo1973-version.0/pcb is supposed to return some sane value Feb 22 01:46:38 Doesn't look like it's working properly though Feb 22 01:47:22 too late :-) prepare for next impact Feb 22 01:48:58 Heh, should've hilighted you :) Feb 22 01:50:48 Well, now at least everybody knows that all this stuff is utterly inconsistent :) Feb 22 01:51:11 cat /sys/bus/platform/drivers/neo1973-version/neo1973-version.0/pcb gives "0x001" for me. Feb 22 01:51:23 lol Feb 22 01:52:36 your next patch? ;-) Feb 22 01:52:47 ping... impact Feb 22 01:53:16 :) Feb 22 01:53:32 Ok, i don't know how correct that "0x001" response btw. Feb 22 01:53:38 Anyway, gotta sleep now :) Feb 22 01:54:17 Thank you for all this talks/hacking :) Feb 22 01:56:23 DocScrutinizer: good night Feb 22 01:56:53 night Paul Feb 22 02:01:09 DocScrutinizer: Ive updated bug #2215 - may be relevant to Pauls patch for the calypso poweron Feb 22 02:01:52 you were discussing about an hour ago Feb 22 02:05:53 thanks billk, will look at it later :) Feb 22 02:12:43 billk: duh, that sounds to me like an urelated one. Feb 22 02:12:57 uNrelated Feb 22 02:13:25 moko11b1 should have fixed all issues known so far Feb 22 02:14:07 PaulFertser's patch for sysfs afaik only implements a workaround for pre-moko11 fw Feb 22 02:14:43 billk: admit I just speedread it for now Feb 22 02:14:57 DocScrutinizer2: I can live in hope :) Feb 22 02:15:27 if I got it you posted a patch or workaround script? Feb 22 02:15:36 there is something different about my setup that the standard mux trips over Feb 22 02:16:10 hmm we need to closer scrutinize this Feb 22 02:16:13 posted both a patch and a separate script run first so I can easily preset the uart before the mux starts Feb 22 02:16:55 already contacted mickeyl on that? I mean it's muxer at last Feb 22 02:17:11 To do this I had to remove the gsm poweron stanza from the mux otherwise it killed it, hence the script Feb 22 02:17:28 ahh ok Feb 22 02:17:29 the problem is in the mux initialisation somewhere Feb 22 02:18:07 its not geeting init'd properly unless I go to this extreme - seems to me that Feb 22 02:18:38 either the driver is getting in the way, or a value is being missed in the setup Feb 22 02:33:12 wtf? Samsung building cargo carrier ships as well as chips? Feb 22 02:33:32 :D Feb 22 02:36:27 * DocScrutinizer2 wouldn't be surprised to find Samsung and Honda owned by Nestlé Feb 22 02:47:35 i'm going to a carshow tomorrow Feb 22 02:47:50 should i ask around? :D **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Feb 22 02:59:57 2009