**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Mar 22 02:59:57 2009 Mar 22 06:06:44 /dev/input/event0 is Aux Botton and /dev/input/event4 is Power button right? Mar 22 09:38:27 is it possible to use shr without this e stuff? Mar 22 09:40:32 shr the distro? Mar 22 09:41:14 you can use another window manager/desktop enviornment, but then the phone part might not work Mar 22 09:42:36 why not? it's only another window manager. I mean can use gnome apps in my kde too Mar 22 09:43:00 Serdar: it will work with other WM, but recent e libs are required to run ophonekitd and friends anyway. Mar 22 09:43:56 you won't have some nice features thouh Mar 22 09:44:04 s/thouh/though/ Mar 22 09:44:04 bumbl meant: you won't have some nice features though Mar 22 09:44:21 as the auto-popup of the keyboard requires illume to be running Mar 22 09:44:23 i mean shr is maybe nice, but this illume looking pretty bad. and scrolling is such a pain in the ass, I started many times a program if I wanted to scroll down Mar 22 09:49:07 scrolling where? Mar 22 09:50:33 down Mar 22 09:51:08 scrolling what down? Mar 22 09:51:39 I started many times a program if I wanted to scroll down Mar 22 09:51:51 what does that mean? Mar 22 09:52:01 http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/wiki/Screenshots Mar 22 09:52:33 seems there are few less programs, but I could not see the last ones, so I needed to scroll down Mar 22 09:54:35 oh Mar 22 09:54:42 finger srolling? Mar 22 09:55:21 finger or stick, don't madder, I got a program started Mar 22 09:55:29 s/madder/matter Mar 22 09:55:56 damn bzzbot :O Mar 22 09:56:38 does fr touchscreen report area? Mar 22 09:57:15 what do you mean? Mar 22 09:57:33 if you are using stylus does it allow you to press in a white area and scroll? Mar 22 09:57:57 area meaning how much of the touch screen is pressed Mar 22 09:58:27 need to try it again, I try to compile shr unstable again and see it Mar 22 09:58:44 I have now android installed Mar 22 09:59:32 shr unstable does not compile because of python-ecore failing Mar 22 09:59:51 It compiled few weeks ago Mar 22 10:00:03 what did change from there? Mar 22 10:04:04 mainly shr-settings afaik Mar 22 10:04:24 ~seen quickdev Mar 22 10:04:24 quickdev was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko-cdevel, 24d 19h 29m 4s ago, saying: 'and for you?'. Mar 22 10:10:51 ~lart Dave Mar 22 10:10:51 * bzzbot drops a humongous exploding nuke on Dave Mar 22 11:27:28 good morning all! Mar 22 11:27:57 hi ptitjes Mar 22 11:28:29 hello BluesLee! Mar 22 11:28:42 good sunday ? Mar 22 11:29:30 a little bit tired and burned out but its okay... how is your sunday yet? Mar 22 11:35:30 I was quite sure it would be sunny as yesterday... but in fact the sky is grey and it is so disapointing! Mar 22 11:36:54 yeah, here in germany also Mar 22 11:37:25 wow I can't believe it! I never have seen pidgin crash before! Mar 22 11:37:27 here the sun laughs as bright as it would in summer Mar 22 11:37:39 but the wind blows hard Mar 22 11:37:46 bumbl: lucky guy! Mar 22 11:37:53 nah Mar 22 11:38:16 have to do all the work i didn't do the rest of the weekend Mar 22 11:38:23 bumbl: arf I should have wait for the end of the sentence :( Mar 22 11:38:55 embryo-native sounds strange Mar 22 11:39:41 BluesLee, oh, now you mention it, it's too shiny out there Mar 22 11:40:04 grrr Mar 22 11:42:34 hi Serdar Mar 22 11:43:00 hi Mar 22 11:43:07 did you found your favorite distro? Mar 22 11:43:28 wha I need to go through this shiny outside to the library... that's sucks Mar 22 11:43:45 I am not sure Mar 22 11:44:42 yeah, your library opens also on sundays, thats pretty cool Mar 22 11:45:26 "hello not sure, please repeat your name" "I am not ..." "not is your first name, repeat your second name" "you don't understand I am not sure about it" "welcome not sure, you will get now your tatoo" Mar 22 11:45:52 it's open from 8-0 Mar 22 11:47:54 BluesLee, nope, I am looking for android, qt-extended-improved, gentoo and shr Mar 22 11:48:14 shoragan: hello Mar 22 11:48:51 so need to go Mar 22 11:49:28 shoragan: it seems you are the only one from the coreteam that did not set your availability on the FSOSHR'09 wiki page Mar 22 11:50:10 Ainulind1le: ping Mar 22 11:50:31 Serdar: okay, see you, i have also to go, sports... Mar 22 11:51:05 don't tell me about sports Mar 22 11:51:25 I feel the session from thurstay Mar 22 11:51:41 I like typo's Mar 22 11:52:02 ptitjes: mirko-paroli is missing on this page too Mar 22 11:52:22 bumbl: that is true! Mar 22 11:52:24 bumbl: that's because i am uncertain about my whereabouts :) Mar 22 11:53:21 Serdar: then you should do more sports to get used to it Mar 22 11:54:03 bye Mar 22 12:39:19 has the python-ecore problem been fixed yet? Mar 22 12:40:00 that is, it wont build on unstable Mar 22 13:29:27 ptitjes: put info on the page now Mar 22 13:38:10 mirko|busy: thanks* Mar 22 13:39:30 ptitjes: thanks for pulling this off :) Mar 22 13:40:18 no probs Mar 22 13:44:31 ptitjes: btw if it is in berlin I can lend a hand until mid april Mar 22 13:55:51 mickey|zzZZzz, hi, evening.. just wondering, can i port the odeviced stuff to the new cornucopia code base.. just had a checkout at the project Mar 22 13:55:56 s/at/of Mar 22 14:20:29 Sup3rkiddo, what is cornucopia ? Mar 22 14:21:01 playya, the vala/c thingy of frameworkd :D... really fresh Mar 22 14:42:00 moin Mar 22 14:42:11 DocScrutinizer: :-) Mar 22 14:42:22 hello men! Mar 22 14:42:46 ptitjes: hangover? ;) Mar 22 14:42:54 :D Mar 22 14:43:08 PaulFertser: looks like enlightenment-devel list acts the same as freesmarphone-userland... my mail got silently dropped :( Mar 22 14:43:57 haha Mar 22 14:44:06 well Mar 22 14:44:11 thank the evil spammers Mar 22 14:44:15 shame on you Mar 22 14:44:47 DocScrutinizer: I woke up at 12h so now I'm even well enough to code - look: http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=vala.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/gir-support Mar 22 14:45:06 fortunately it's low traffic enough that I'm going to subscribe... Mar 22 14:46:41 mrmoku: cam Mar 22 14:46:44 ptitjes: what's gir? Mar 22 14:46:48 s/cam/can't/ Mar 22 14:46:48 bumbl meant: mrmoku: can't Mar 22 14:47:08 you tell the mailinglist manager that you only want to receive a single mail per dy Mar 22 14:47:13 s/dy/day/ Mar 22 14:47:13 bumbl meant: you tell the mailinglist manager that you only want to receive a single mail per day Mar 22 14:47:26 bumbl: well... I hate digests... Mar 22 14:47:48 DocScrutinizer: GObject-Introspection Repository Mar 22 14:48:10 oh, very esotheric Mar 22 14:48:26 that is what will enable generated G libraries bindings Mar 22 14:48:32 for external language Mar 22 14:49:08 DocScrutinizer: for instance, if you want a python binding of some library Mar 22 14:49:10 anyone know a good way to view wikipedia offline on the fr, without using evopedia or squashfs ? Mar 22 14:49:35 DocScrutinizer: feed the library to g-ir-scanner, this will introspect the C code and generate a gir file Mar 22 14:49:46 aah, ok Mar 22 14:50:04 DocScrutinizer: then feed the python binding generator with that gir file and it will produce generated python binding Mar 22 14:50:38 DocScrutinizer: so I work on Vala's gir support... Mar 22 14:50:58 both writting and parsing sides Mar 22 15:00:10 mwester: when can we expect a mwester-shr-kernel? Mar 22 15:01:15 mwester: and pretty please magically include squasgfs :) Mar 22 15:01:53 * mwester has been fighting with OE commts that break his primary project, so he has had no time. :( Mar 22 15:02:12 :( Mar 22 15:02:29 current fso/shr kernels won't work with qi Mar 22 15:02:52 as they + qi break something with the lcm when resuming from suspend Mar 22 15:04:42 kind of wsod, nsod, msod mixture Mar 22 15:04:44 another gpio kernel doesn't take careof? Mar 22 15:05:12 white fills with black noise until it is black Mar 22 15:05:52 with every 2.6.28/29 kernel i tried (kernels which are in the fso/shr folders) Mar 22 15:06:31 with 2.6.24 everything was fine Mar 22 15:06:48 DocScrutinizer: well qi is involved because with uboot everything works perfectly Mar 22 15:07:21 yeah cause uboot inits much more of the gpios Mar 22 15:08:16 to me it seems this is 2. or 3. issue of this type Mar 22 15:08:20 well uboot is fine at the moment but as i reboot often i would prefer qi Mar 22 15:08:55 DocScrutinizer: bad programing or bad hardware? Mar 22 15:09:20 nonsense, bad kernel Mar 22 15:09:31 -> bad programing Mar 22 15:09:57 blame Andy ;) Mar 22 15:10:33 i do Mar 22 15:10:49 i'll write a bugreport (although i hate registring to yet another trac) Mar 22 15:10:51 + video Mar 22 15:11:00 good luck with it. interesting test Mar 22 15:11:04 + test with current openmoko unstable Mar 22 15:11:57 I'd assume we won5 see Andy responding Mar 22 15:12:36 why? Mar 22 15:15:02 not with OM anymore, afaik Mar 22 15:21:35 bumbl: so fiing a ticket and a request on [kernel] might in fact be an interesting test to see who's taking hat to maintain kernel and qi Mar 22 15:22:02 s/fii/fili/ Mar 22 15:22:03 DocScrutinizer meant: bumbl: so filing a ticket and a request on [kernel] might in fact be an interesting test to see who's taking hat to maintain kernel and qi Mar 22 15:22:29 * mwester will be watching; that's a good idea. :) Mar 22 15:25:56 yummy, coffee :) Mar 22 15:43:03 PaulFertser: ping Mar 22 15:44:40 andy is not at openmoko anymore? Mar 22 15:46:14 hmm om changes their developers faster than other people their underwear Mar 22 15:46:55 bumbl: I don't want to see that underwear, though. Mar 22 15:47:08 haha Mar 22 15:47:14 neither me Mar 22 16:01:30 mrmoku: pong Mar 22 16:02:30 PaulFertser: hey... trying to compile xorg Mar 22 16:02:41 IIRC 1.5 is needed for xserver, right? Mar 22 16:03:26 mrmoku: at least that's what others use. Mar 22 16:03:55 because OE defaults to 1.3... but recipes for 1.5.3 are there Mar 22 16:04:36 IIRC lindi- had problems with 1.3 and lars told that he develops on 1.5 Mar 22 16:05:34 mrmoku: yes, looks like that. 1.3 is mad old, no point in trying it, i guess. Mar 22 16:10:17 ERROR: Multiple .bb files are due to be built which each provide virtual/xserver (/home/serdar/openmoko/shr/shr-unstable/openembedded/packages/xorg-xserver/xserver-kdrive-glamo_1.3.0.0+git.bb /home/serdar/openmoko/shr/shr-unstable/openembedded/packages/xorg-xserver/xserver-kdrive_1.3.0.0.bb). Mar 22 16:10:21 is this known? Mar 22 16:11:44 Yes and it should be okay. Mar 22 16:11:53 You really need them both in this case Mar 22 16:12:06 I have more error's :) Mar 22 16:12:26 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * re8d00151688e 10/ (3 files in 2 dirs): thread skeleton Mar 22 16:12:28 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * r0b1fede33849 10/.gitignore: add executables to gitignore Mar 22 16:12:29 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * re48e4525905f 10/examples/library/mainloops.vala: E and G threads Mar 22 16:12:29 hmm Mar 22 16:12:55 http://rafb.net/p/L28uMU21.html Mar 22 16:14:11 Serdar: ecore_directfb? Mar 22 16:14:12 Hmm Mar 22 16:14:20 Is it supposed to build that? Mar 22 16:14:33 no idea, I tried make Mar 22 16:14:40 In any case it seems the patch and version used are out of sync Mar 22 16:14:51 we don't build e-directfb Mar 22 16:14:56 it's more or less broken and unmaintained Mar 22 16:15:05 if you want to hack on it, we can enable it again Mar 22 16:15:27 I don't want it if I don't need it Mar 22 16:15:28 I don't know why shr-image is building it Mar 22 16:15:39 mrmoku: "Add legacy modesetting path for xorg prior to 1.5.0.0. It doesn't support rotation yet." So no need in trying anything older than 1.5. Mar 22 16:15:44 mickey|sofa: Look at the pastebin Mar 22 16:15:50 It's trying to build... Mar 22 16:15:57 alphaone, he didn't see it Mar 22 16:16:08 http://rafb.net/p/L28uMU21.html Mar 22 16:16:11 * mickey|sofa (n=mickey@e180142255.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #openmoko-cdevel Mar 22 16:16:13 http://rafb.net/p/L28uMU21.html Mar 22 16:16:14 PaulFertser: ok, thanks Mar 22 16:16:26 http://rafb.net/p/L28uMU21.html Mar 22 16:16:26 * mickey|sofa (n=mickey@e180142255.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #openmoko-cdevel Mar 22 16:16:27 ah, that Mar 22 16:16:36 try remove the pathc Mar 22 16:16:55 where os this pathc? Mar 22 16:18:04 ecore.inc i guess Mar 22 16:20:12 mickey|sofa: hey! Mar 22 16:21:13 mickey|sofa: mrmoku pointed me to that: http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/user-manual.html#maintaining-topic-branches Mar 22 16:22:35 mickey|sofa: so I will create yet another branch 'gir-parsing' (for the parsing side of things), and also a 'test' branch Mar 22 16:23:20 mickey|sofa: I will maintain the test branch as a merge of the topic (gir-support and gir-parsing) branches on top of master Mar 22 16:24:00 mickey|sofa: could you modify the bb recipe of Vala to use that particular 'test' branch when I've done this ? Mar 22 16:26:24 larsc: ping Mar 22 16:28:21 PaulFertser: pong Mar 22 16:29:29 larsc: Hey. :) Great work on xorg glamo driver, thanks a lot :) Mar 22 16:29:39 larsc: but one major question remains: Mar 22 16:30:17 larsc: what's the deal with O_SYNC /dev/mem? Where should it be fixed in a proper way, kernel or xorg? Mar 22 16:33:29 PaulFertser: I'm not sure. For now I fixed it in the driver itself by not using the Xorg functions for accessing /dev/mem Mar 22 16:33:47 ptitjes: sure Mar 22 16:34:11 larsc: so if we clone from git.openmoko.org, the xorg patch is not needed, right? Mar 22 16:34:18 larsc: a _very_ valuable info :) Mar 22 16:34:48 PaulFertser: yes Mar 22 16:34:55 larsc: i see, 76f6662a63d72acd305b60fa37b410cdc07b36c4 Mar 22 16:35:00 mrmoku: hear that? ;) Mar 22 16:35:30 larsc: BTW, can you disclose your future plans a bit? Mar 22 16:35:48 mickey|sofa: ok branch 'test' is there Mar 22 16:36:31 * PaulFertser learns to read commit logs more often Mar 22 16:48:35 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * r47afbc8b440d 10/examples/library/mainloops.vala: add some logic for proper shutdown Mar 22 16:51:39 you mean removeing this? FILES_${PN}-directfb = "${libdir}/libecore_directfb.so.*" Mar 22 16:51:50 no, i was talking about removing a patch from the recipe Mar 22 16:51:53 inf file /home/serdar/openmoko/shr/openembedded/packages/efl1/ecore.inc Mar 22 16:52:00 somewhere there is this patch listed in SRC_URI Mar 22 16:52:03 grep for it Mar 22 16:52:05 then remove it Mar 22 16:53:47 SRC_URI += "file://fix-directfb-include.patch;patch=1" this one? Mar 22 16:54:36 mickey|sofa, ola... about cornucopia.. what does XsoFramework stand for? Mar 22 16:54:46 hi sudharsh Mar 22 16:54:56 we're not ready to port stuff yet Mar 22 16:55:03 there's some vala bits missing until we can do Mar 22 16:55:07 mickey|sofa, oh.. ok :/.... Mar 22 16:55:17 i want to have the types in the framework library Mar 22 16:55:28 but due to some problems with glib type registering, it doesn't work Mar 22 16:55:30 mickey|sofa, TypeModule integration? Mar 22 16:55:32 yes Mar 22 16:55:41 mickey|sofa, i see Mar 22 16:55:49 i've written something about that to the mailing list Mar 22 16:55:53 few days ago Mar 22 16:55:55 yu feng had an idea Mar 22 16:55:59 need to find time to test that Mar 22 16:56:06 the other big drawback is proper error reporting Mar 22 16:56:12 i want to be really anal about parameter checking this time Mar 22 16:56:20 and we can't raise proper dbus errors Mar 22 16:56:24 mickey|sofa, been following that... i had a try at that, but gave up Mar 22 16:56:25 so that is holding us back as well Mar 22 16:56:58 mickey|sofa, oh, ok... i got a month's free time.. after which i have my last semester... college is over mid-may :D Mar 22 16:57:26 that sounds good, i think we're nearly there to get started and I have a big interest to get my feet wet as well Mar 22 16:57:36 but the vala stuff needs to be there first Mar 22 16:57:46 i even considered putting some bountiesout Mar 22 16:57:52 mickey|sofa, ooh Mar 22 16:58:35 but i'm afraid there are little experts available for vala atm. Mar 22 16:58:44 PaulFertser: yep... very valuable :-) (and easier without patching) Mar 22 17:01:28 mickey|sofa, can't you bribe juerg into doing it : Mar 22 17:01:29 D Mar 22 17:01:42 i'm afraid not Mar 22 17:01:47 he has so much stuff on his hands atm. Mar 22 17:01:50 i will pester him though Mar 22 17:01:54 will meet him next week Mar 22 17:01:58 on OpenExpo Mar 22 17:02:06 mickey|sofa, oh... neat Mar 22 17:02:14 i hope he's there.... that is Mar 22 17:03:07 mickey|sofa, so, i can put porting stuff on hold.. i started off with display, but thought its better to get your go first Mar 22 17:03:20 yeah Mar 22 17:03:22 what i would like is Mar 22 17:03:28 doing a first plugin Mar 22 17:03:31 as "role model" ;) Mar 22 17:03:34 nah, template, that is Mar 22 17:03:38 fully featured with tests etc. Mar 22 17:04:00 after that we can work in parallel Mar 22 17:04:10 ah, ok :D.. sounds fun Mar 22 17:04:31 i'm very eager to try ogsmd Mar 22 17:04:36 mickey|sofa: I don't understand why you want to use TypeModule Mar 22 17:04:43 ptitjes, +1 Mar 22 17:04:47 ptitjes: i don't want, i need to Mar 22 17:04:55 otherwise i can't get my types registered Mar 22 17:05:07 at least that's what i think Mar 22 17:05:11 I'm not exactly a gtype expoert Mar 22 17:05:21 mickey|sofa, you can't unregister it once you register a type Mar 22 17:05:24 afaik Mar 22 17:05:29 yes, that sucks as well Mar 22 17:05:34 but again... i'm open for alternatives Mar 22 17:05:45 i want the interface to be defined in the libfsoframework Mar 22 17:05:47 mickey|sofa: you should go the way we are doing it in ophonekitd Mar 22 17:05:52 i want the interface to be implemented in the plugin Mar 22 17:05:57 i had this dilemma of using it or not.... but then i went the 'if it works, dont fix it' route Mar 22 17:06:03 well Mar 22 17:06:05 it doesN#t work Mar 22 17:06:12 mickey|sofa: that is: use g-i type loading Mar 22 17:06:22 it doesn't work, if you have the interface in the libfsoframework as I want Mar 22 17:06:26 mickey|sofa, hehe ok Mar 22 17:06:45 hmm Mar 22 17:06:50 for thati need your new stuff? Mar 22 17:07:03 mickey|sofa: yeah! Mar 22 17:07:12 mickey|sofa: but it works very well indeed Mar 22 17:07:24 ok, might try to wrap my head around that then Mar 22 17:07:27 mickey|sofa: it runs perfectly in ophonekitd Mar 22 17:08:04 mickey|sofa: the services interfaces are defined in libfso-glib (and all the dbus stuff is generated there) Mar 22 17:08:17 hmm, sounds like a similar case Mar 22 17:08:21 just that you don#t dlopen Mar 22 17:08:54 mickey|sofa: currently I don't dlopen because all my components are in the same lib Mar 22 17:09:00 in fact in the app Mar 22 17:09:03 executable Mar 22 17:09:06 rigto Mar 22 17:09:45 however if you load the type through g-i then you get its internal dlopen mechanism for free Mar 22 17:10:12 and g-i is?.... gob - introspection? Mar 22 17:10:20 Sup3rkiddo: yes Mar 22 17:10:39 mickey|sofa: but here again, libmodulo abstracts it all Mar 22 17:10:53 mickey|sofa: and it is completely transparent for ophonekitd code Mar 22 17:11:04 because libmodulo does IOC Mar 22 17:11:24 which is IMHO superior to usual plugin stuff Mar 22 17:13:17 mickey|sofa: I would be glad if you check libmodulo and how it works. there a little sample in the samples/ directory. Mar 22 17:14:01 mickey|sofa: it is a sample-dbus-client and a sample-dbus-server, and both runs over a libmodulo container Mar 22 17:14:23 mickey|sofa: you might be surprised how easy it is to program dbus with libmodulo Mar 22 17:14:38 * Sup3rkiddo frantically googles for libmodulo Mar 22 17:14:41 mickey|sofa: and in fact I would be glad if we don't do twice the same stuff Mar 22 17:14:54 Sup3rkiddo: it is on SHR's git Mar 22 17:15:01 ptitjes, got it Mar 22 17:15:05 i'll definitely check it out Mar 22 17:15:09 with google ? nice! Mar 22 17:15:43 oh yes! google is cool! Mar 22 17:16:10 http://rafb.net/p/qtXWT710.html is that okay? Mar 22 17:16:27 ptitjes, ah, you wrote it :D.. cool Mar 22 17:16:34 mickey|sofa: one thing I did not commit is the logging stuff Mar 22 17:17:00 btw. is there a way to port the write to text stuff from qteextended? Mar 22 17:17:26 ptitjes: you might want to check the logger i did for cornucopia Mar 22 17:17:27 mickey|sofa: and also I will implement a FSO-based Configuration object so that components can be configured transparently from data in the Preferences Service Mar 22 17:17:48 hmm it's missing glib.h Mar 22 17:17:56 mickey|sofa: arf! we are clearly doing twice the same stuff :) Mar 22 17:18:03 hehe Mar 22 17:18:13 well, I'm building cornucopia from the ground up Mar 22 17:18:17 based on the experiences of FSO1 Mar 22 17:18:26 so naturally all the helpers need to be present :) Mar 22 17:18:42 frameworkd-phonegui.c:21:18: error: glib.h: No such file or directory <-- where is this missing? at target or host? Mar 22 17:19:04 do I need to bitbake -c build glib? or glibc? Mar 22 17:19:05 mickey|sofa, ogsmd in cornucopia, should be fun.... :D.... Mar 22 17:19:12 Serdar, glib Mar 22 17:20:50 Sup3rkiddo: ya, that'd be tough. But I can't wait to start. It's a nice challenge. Mar 22 17:20:57 again though, I won't even start until we have async dbus Mar 22 17:21:02 mickey|sofa: man we have quite the same code, except that I use stronger encapsulation: loggers client on my side can't change the logger's configuration Mar 22 17:23:18 mickey|sofa: see http://git.shr-project.org/git/?p=libmodulo.git;a=blob;f=src/modulo-api.vala;hb=HEAD#l94 Mar 22 17:23:59 in fact APIs changed a little in local here but it is quite the same Mar 22 17:24:19 hehe Mar 22 17:24:24 good night all Mar 22 17:24:45 goodnight Sup3rkiddo Mar 22 17:24:51 g'night spu Mar 22 17:24:52 err Mar 22 17:24:55 g'night Sup3rkiddo Mar 22 17:25:08 my laptop battery is dieing Mar 22 17:25:10 mickey|sofa: I will commit the remaining tonight Mar 22 17:25:14 cool Mar 22 17:25:26 dunno whether I'm on internet next couple of days Mar 22 17:25:32 tomorrow I'm going to fly to Aalborg for FOSS Aalborg Mar 22 17:25:41 will be back on Wednesday Mar 22 17:25:46 l8e Mar 22 17:26:30 freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libeflvala * r357b572cafe7 10/examples/library/mainloops.vala: layout plan Mar 22 17:26:43 ERROR: Nothing PROVIDES 'glib' Mar 22 17:27:23 Serdar: glib-2.0 Mar 22 17:27:28 stupid question; can we run Qt and PyQt on shr-testing? Mar 22 17:36:30 larsc: I'm afraid you missed my question. Just wanted to know if you're going to maintain the xorg driver or any other information about long-term solution. Mar 22 17:44:47 PaulFertser: well, i'm not sure. i'll busy with other things for the next 2-3 weeks and whats then, well lets see. Mar 22 17:45:16 larsc: i guess that means we're waiting for official OM-the-company news? Mar 22 17:45:42 PaulFertser: hm? Mar 22 17:45:54 larsc: are you employed by OM? Mar 22 17:45:59 no Mar 22 17:46:04 larsc: good heavens! Mar 22 17:46:17 larsc: ok, one problem less. Thanks a lot again. :) Mar 22 17:46:59 larsc: good luck and don't forget we'll be waiting for you :) Mar 22 17:47:12 mirko-paroli: what do i have to do to enter pin? Mar 22 17:47:23 bumbl_: what do you mean? Mar 22 17:47:30 PaulFertser: lots of other stuff is waiting for me aswell ;) Mar 22 17:47:32 in paroli? Mar 22 17:47:35 yes Mar 22 17:47:40 i have paroli here Mar 22 17:47:50 if you SIM requires it, you should get asked automagically Mar 22 17:47:53 ah now it popped up Mar 22 17:47:57 after 3min Mar 22 17:48:16 9s paroli time :) Mar 22 17:48:29 hehe Mar 22 17:48:44 configure: error: C preprocessor "arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-gcc -E" fails sanity check Mar 22 17:48:58 hmm it lacks (immediate) feedback whether the pin was accepted Mar 22 17:49:40 hmm can't init service Audio Mar 22 17:49:44 PaulFertser: i'm a bit disapointed by the fact that fbdev on the average is still faster then my driver, with the bottelneck being the cpu because exa in the xserver is soooo slow. Mar 22 17:49:56 bumbl_: which image do you have, today? Mar 22 17:50:23 21/03/2009 Mar 22 17:50:33 hmm ... Mar 22 17:51:15 hmm Mar 22 17:51:35 wnmsod is not here with latest kernel + qi + latest om Mar 22 17:51:43 mrmoku: go and fix the kernel Mar 22 17:51:45 ;) Mar 22 17:52:53 bumbl_: have 2 minutes to check the log for the audio service problem? Mar 22 17:52:57 larsc: there's lots of bottlenecks by design of gta02, so all in all it's not a major concern. But having xorg instead of kdrive is a great benefit. Even better if it was mainline (can we dream? ;) ). BTW, while we're at it, do you think accelerated video playback hacked up for mplayer by one cool guy can work with your driver without modifications? Mar 22 17:53:00 if not it's ok ;) Mar 22 17:53:34 mirko-paroli: sure what should i do Mar 22 17:53:39 btw. i like paroli Mar 22 17:53:45 ssh into the phone Mar 22 17:53:50 at least the phone part Mar 22 17:53:55 bumbl_: thx haven't heard that in a while ;) Mar 22 17:54:04 i would like to start developing shr-today... Mar 22 17:54:18 and check the file /tmp/paroli.log Mar 22 17:54:41 i like the way how to reply to a sms Mar 22 17:54:53 yeah sshing in now Mar 22 17:54:59 do you have the version with the slider ? Mar 22 17:55:31 I haven't upgraded in a while ... only pushing changes ;) Mar 22 17:55:37 yes Mar 22 17:55:47 ah, and you like the short way? Mar 22 17:56:03 time is slidable too although i don't know why (atm) Mar 22 17:56:08 hehe Mar 22 17:56:09 mirko-paroli: kiss Mar 22 17:56:11 you can set an alarm Mar 22 17:56:27 hmm... even when being subscribed and using my providers smtp server... no mail to enlightenment-devel :( Mar 22 17:56:58 PaulFertser: since my driver is not touching any of the glamos video playback registers it should work Mar 22 17:57:21 scrolling in people is slow and error prone though Mar 22 17:57:36 yeah that is handcrafted with embryo Mar 22 17:57:42 any other scrolling should not work atm Mar 22 17:57:45 due to etk probs Mar 22 17:58:28 yeah etk is unmaintained Mar 22 17:58:28 and I can't get elm to not segfault on me all the time Mar 22 17:58:37 would love to switch Mar 22 17:58:46 but not if I can only click 5 times ;) Mar 22 18:01:02 I rewrote I/o for elm already but it just segfaults Mar 22 18:01:14 guess it doesn't like the way I rewrite the list :09 Mar 22 18:01:16 :) Mar 22 18:01:48 hmm I get this if I try to build glibc configure: error: C preprocessor "arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-gcc -E" fails sanity check Mar 22 18:01:49 hmm *changing pc* this one does not like the moko Mar 22 18:03:55 mirko-paroli: all in all - paroli looks good - what is missing is a launcher, improving the alarm function (alarm on off only appears on click) Mar 22 18:04:15 a launcher? Mar 22 18:04:21 what is paroli? Mar 22 18:05:07 Serdar: an OM backed project to build a phone stack with python and efl Mar 22 18:05:10 mirko-paroli: a way to launch applications Mar 22 18:05:17 ah, non-paroli apps Mar 22 18:05:26 as i have not found a way to get out of fullscreen mode Mar 22 18:05:33 ;) Mar 22 18:05:45 I heard, that python makes problens Mar 22 18:05:46 there is a post on the community list Mar 22 18:05:47 problems Mar 22 18:05:51 which is imo one huge critic point Mar 22 18:06:27 (that paroli reinvents the wheel - but i like the way the phone apps work) Mar 22 18:06:28 you only have to remove a folder i believe (~/.e) Mar 22 18:06:48 I just wanted to have an easy start, which was leaving illume for now Mar 22 18:06:56 but we rely on the kbd etc Mar 22 18:07:04 so we needed to keep it in the background Mar 22 18:07:33 if anyone comes up with a way of switching on the fly a put it in the git Mar 22 18:07:33 i don't know why you desided to have paroli running full-screen... Mar 22 18:07:37 Mickey's written that paroli is balancing on the razor blade: between delivering product specs and satisfying community. Am i the only one to find it strange? I thought these two are exactly the same... Mar 22 18:08:01 s/desiced/decided/ Mar 22 18:08:28 dos1: because I don't like fighting with the illume top-shelf Mar 22 18:08:41 PaulFertser: it is not necessarily the same Mar 22 18:08:51 + any chance of improving the launch time of the subsystems (e.g. async list loading for people) Mar 22 18:08:54 mirko-paroli: i don't undestand... why you need to fight with illume top-shelf?:P Mar 22 18:09:22 hmm, because in order to teach it the functionality I would like it to have I would need to change a lot Mar 22 18:09:22 mirko-paroli: now i see it, it was a rhetoric question. Mar 22 18:09:40 PaulFertser: hm? Mar 22 18:10:36 bumbl_: the lists are a hot topic as they aren't really lists Mar 22 18:10:46 no tk list thingy anyhow Mar 22 18:10:51 mirko-paroli: I hoped that the specs is to please the community. Now when mickey's written his post i see i was wrong. The specs is something else. Well, a bit surprising... Mar 22 18:11:37 mirko-paroli: i don Mar 22 18:11:40 ... Mar 22 18:12:03 mirko-paroli: i can't see a point - why illume top-shelf needs fighting? Mar 22 18:12:04 PaulFertser: I believe I failed in highlighting the idea of paroli which is plugins rather than one way to do it all Mar 22 18:12:27 mirko-paroli: as to the top-shelf thingy: i'd be happy to have a not-fully functional top-shelf (without any integration with paroli), call it dead space, but it'll still work for WM. I'd prefer having dead space/duplicate information to not being able to interact with illume as usual. I still can't see the technical reason for your "full-screen" decision. Mar 22 18:12:36 PaulFertser: so using the core does not necessarily mean using the apps Mar 22 18:12:45 mirko-paroli: no, i know about the plugins. Read your site carefully. Mar 22 18:13:03 was not meant to criticize your way of looking at it Mar 22 18:13:08 as I (about technical reason for full-screen decision) Mar 22 18:13:10 I know you have, or at least supsected Mar 22 18:13:23 but I failed to offer alternatives Mar 22 18:13:38 which would have made it more clear and taken the pressure of that issue Mar 22 18:13:56 because at the end of the day the interface and the liking of it is always a personal choice Mar 22 18:14:18 if it would take you roughly 20min to implement a new version of any list or dialer Mar 22 18:14:28 it wouldn't be a big issue Mar 22 18:14:28 i'd love to just have the illume top bar, qwerty button, settings button and pager Mar 22 18:14:40 rest of the top bar empty Mar 22 18:14:50 mirko-paroli: we're very suprised to see the "full-screen" issue in the first place. It's like "wtf" feeling. We know you lack time for proper integration. But why not go without any integration at all? Mar 22 18:15:01 leaving all the functionality to paroli which is shown on all 4 workspaces Mar 22 18:15:22 bumbl_: no Mar 22 18:15:28 bumbl_: i must disagree :P Mar 22 18:15:34 PaulFertser: what would no integration look like? Mar 22 18:15:40 you mean scale small Mar 22 18:15:47 "smaller" Mar 22 18:16:23 mirko-paroli: so it's bad design in 640x480, as it shouldn't be :P Mar 22 18:16:31 mirko-paroli: it'd look like you assume you have 620 vertical pixels instead of 640. Like any other non-integrated program, fbreader, urxvt or smth. Mar 22 18:16:52 PaulFertser: exactly what i mean :) Mar 22 18:17:12 PaulFertser: I see your point, but there comes the razor thingy Mar 22 18:17:15 mirko-paroli: i understand you want to show a "topbar" with signal strength, name of the operator etc. Do it like you did, why not leave 20px for illume anyway? Mar 22 18:17:40 I was asked to have a version which is 480x640 paroli Mar 22 18:17:47 that one we put in the image Mar 22 18:17:52 however Mar 22 18:18:00 mirko-paroli: who asked that? Mar 22 18:18:11 the goal always was to make it possible to run it within illume as well Mar 22 18:18:13 (hidden department in Om ;>>>) Mar 22 18:18:20 dos1: christ sake Mar 22 18:18:26 are you paranoid? Mar 22 18:18:28 mirko-paroli: may i suggest an easy improvement? disable autoblinking for time because this initiates a redraw of the display Mar 22 18:18:31 I am Mar 22 18:18:37 which is bad for battery life Mar 22 18:18:47 mirko-paroli: haven't you sense of humour? Mar 22 18:19:06 (even if it is ~1min saving it still saves something) Mar 22 18:19:10 or maybe s/haven't you/don't you have/ Mar 22 18:19:24 autoblinking? should only blink when you can set the time Mar 22 18:19:36 dos1: no, I am the most serious person you'll ever meet Mar 22 18:19:38 ah Mar 22 18:19:41 never lough Mar 22 18:19:42 ok sorry my fault Mar 22 18:19:43 never giggle Mar 22 18:19:48 it just blinked all the time Mar 22 18:19:49 and certainly never feel joy Mar 22 18:19:57 so bad :( Mar 22 18:20:11 bumbl_: i am not certain about that part either Mar 22 18:20:17 how to set time then? Mar 22 18:20:18 how to set the clock etc Mar 22 18:20:23 press the aux button Mar 22 18:20:29 short press for minutes Mar 22 18:20:35 long for 10 min me thinks Mar 22 18:20:46 I have to go over that, wasn't done by me Mar 22 18:20:55 I think holding should increase the hours Mar 22 18:21:24 mirko-paroli: fade in arrows on the top and the bottom of the numbers Mar 22 18:21:25 dos1: if I wanna take cheap shots at you, trust me it wouldn't be a challenge Mar 22 18:21:44 dos1: I am just not a big fan of such discourses Mar 22 18:21:59 mirko-paroli: i guess most of the community feels you've choosen the wrong razor :( But i really hope you personally and other paroli guys will be alright anyway. Mar 22 18:22:37 PaulFertser: I am not fighting against anyone, I would love to make things so that everyone is happy Mar 22 18:22:45 and I also would much rather see paroli integrated Mar 22 18:22:49 into illume Mar 22 18:22:54 and use the topbar Mar 22 18:22:57 and rather fight it Mar 22 18:23:03 than switching it off Mar 22 18:23:11 and in fact on openwrt Mar 22 18:23:17 paroli runs with illume Mar 22 18:23:29 there is also a pixelfree version of the dialer design Mar 22 18:23:38 which is not 480x640 Mar 22 18:23:50 and btw the topshelf is 50px :) Mar 22 18:24:03 mirko-paroli: another question is it possible to run the dialer,... alone Mar 22 18:24:11 without the launcher? Mar 22 18:24:16 mirko-paroli: Don't you see that the "full-screen" itself is not a problem? The problem is that some community members don't trust OM-the-company a little bit. OM did too many nasty things to be credible :( Mar 22 18:24:35 PaulFertser: what do you want me to do? Mar 22 18:25:22 mirko-paroli: do what you feel like and have fun :) Mar 22 18:25:27 hehe Mar 22 18:25:36 that was not my question Mar 22 18:25:37 ;) Mar 22 18:25:44 you said the full-screen is a prob Mar 22 18:25:57 mirko-paroli: topshelf size is configurable Mar 22 18:26:02 so you want us to ship the OM distro with paroli not in fullscreen ? Mar 22 18:26:11 dos1: I know, I changed it to 0x0 :P Mar 22 18:27:01 PaulFertser: I don't understand how topshelf and credibility fit together Mar 22 18:27:22 I want to be able to make a prog that makes the comm happy and the comp at the same time Mar 22 18:27:29 I also believe it is not impossible Mar 22 18:27:41 I have to start at one end though Mar 22 18:27:44 mirko-paroli: to be honest, i don't care anymore about the distro that OM-the-company will ship... :( The topshelf is one of the manifistations of the razor (mismatch between community expectations and what OM-the-company does). Just a manifistation. Mar 22 18:28:23 hmm where does the illume.edj lie? Mar 22 18:28:35 ~/.e Mar 22 18:28:48 bumbl_: what do you wanna change? Mar 22 18:28:51 the topshelf size ? Mar 22 18:28:53 mirko-paroli: technically imho it'd make more sense to have two topshelfs (illume and paroli) instead of one from "full-screen" paroli. But that's the razor you mentioned. Well, not much can be done about it. Mar 22 18:29:08 2 topshelves Mar 22 18:29:11 oh Mar 22 18:29:13 hmm Mar 22 18:29:24 but than we show everything twice Mar 22 18:29:42 That's ok for a development-in-progress version. Mar 22 18:29:48 IMHO Mar 22 18:29:59 hmm ... Mar 22 18:30:07 but I guess you don't like the launcher either Mar 22 18:30:18 so why not just switch it off ? Mar 22 18:30:31 and run paroli without a launcher and thus without topsehlf ? Mar 22 18:30:58 btw Mar 22 18:31:07 there was talks of making all this tweaking impossible Mar 22 18:31:28 and removing illume etc from the image, I fought against that Mar 22 18:31:44 and what we ended up with was us blending over illume Mar 22 18:31:57 mirko-paroli: drop everything except | settings workspaces | < home x | qwerty Mar 22 18:32:24 bumbl_: that would be in the e.cfg me thinks Mar 22 18:32:42 which is in . ~/.e/e/config Mar 22 18:32:46 even the replacement of Mar 22 18:32:46 iirc Mar 22 18:32:58 the [+] with < Mar 22 18:34:08 mirko-paroli: i can't see how you can please both the company and the community at the same time. _I_ can't see, but i wish you good luck trying. Mar 22 18:34:29 PaulFertser: I can't either Mar 22 18:34:45 for now both aren't too happy ;) Mar 22 18:35:58 Sounds exactly like what I expected, i.e. no surprise. Just disappointed. (not in paroli -- in the Om management that fails to see what those who would purchase their product wish from them). Mar 22 18:37:00 I'm certainly not up on the difference between full-screen and not, but it seems to me that a rational executive decision-making body would have heard that there was concern and controversy, and would have found some compromise. Mar 22 18:37:05 Anyway... Mar 22 18:37:37 no matter. I suspect there are far more difficult decisions facing those executives right now. Mar 22 18:38:35 And in the end, it's open-source -- if paroli is good, and someone really wants non-fullscreen, then they can release their own distro -- it's not like that hasn't been done before here (a dozen times!!) Mar 22 18:38:36 :D Mar 22 18:38:54 mwester: paroli can easily be run in non-fullscreen Mar 22 18:39:01 mwester: fully agree Mar 22 18:39:17 and paroli is not a distro Mar 22 18:39:46 mirko-paroli: Sorry if you explained that; I'm not a windows gui person, so much of the conversation about that goes over my head. I need simple things to work on... :) Mar 22 18:39:58 LOL Mar 22 18:40:17 mwester: I think there is more to the whole discussion than just the screen-size Mar 22 18:40:24 ok. Mar 22 18:40:29 there is an easy way to change it Mar 22 18:40:35 but nobody seems to care Mar 22 18:40:40 but I think the point is the same, no? it can be changed, so it's not a big deal. Mar 22 18:40:49 it is the fact that the "hidden" department is involved Mar 22 18:41:03 and om-the-company is spreading its evil into paroli Mar 22 18:41:19 so everything has to be faught Mar 22 18:41:22 s/evil/ego/ Mar 22 18:41:22 fought Mar 22 18:41:29 hehe Mar 22 18:41:45 mirko-paroli: yes, that's exactly what i feel like Mar 22 18:41:54 and it doesn't really matter what _I_ do Mar 22 18:42:15 how the project goes, or if we reason, if OM is involved Mar 22 18:42:18 it is bad Mar 22 18:42:26 * mwester worries that PaulFertser may be like King Arthur, battling the black knight... Mar 22 18:42:27 that is what it feels like for me Mar 22 18:42:52 and frankly I am not here to defend any company, or teach management to listen to the community Mar 22 18:42:58 I want this thing to work Mar 22 18:43:01 which btw it does Mar 22 18:43:09 not amazingly well, but considering the time we had Mar 22 18:43:12 it does Mar 22 18:43:44 Your comments here just now have convinced me more than any of the announcements and official communications. Thanks for clearing up a few things. Mar 22 18:44:15 ehm right, not sure if that made it better, but I am glad to be of service Mar 22 18:44:30 mirko-paroli: yes, if you explained how you feel long time ago, it'd make things more clear for everybody (and you'd get less personal rants ;) ). Mar 22 18:44:44 mirko-paroli: i think i now understand how you feel, thanks for the explanation, really. Mar 22 18:45:08 PaulFertser: i regard certain things as a matter of professionalism and inter-human behaviour Mar 22 18:45:28 now what I think we might need would be for a capable person to document the "hidden" switches on the wiki -- and then they are no longer hidden, just "unofficial" discoveries. No cause for concern internally, and perhaps lays to rest some objections in the community. Mar 22 18:45:54 * mwester is not capable, he doesn't really get the underlying problem. Mar 22 18:46:21 mwester: I am actually spending parts of my time to find a way to switch the modes on the fly Mar 22 18:46:39 because sometimes having "just a phone" might be what one wants Mar 22 18:46:52 and then at times have it just as a normal app Mar 22 18:46:58 agreed. Mar 22 18:48:34 PaulFertser: what I meant with failing earlier was, that a project which would be more in community hands could also act closer to the community without having to razor too much Mar 22 18:48:40 but I failed to make that happen Mar 22 18:48:53 was probably also not the best time to attempt it Mar 22 18:49:01 Anybody know why unstable daily is building with an older uboot than the current head of "stable"? Mar 22 18:49:01 mickey|zzZZzz: Are you really sure that kernel patches should be pushed to andy-tracking without clear idea of who will review and maintain it? I'd suggest to make a branch like pending-community-patches and wait for a maintainer to appear... Mar 22 18:49:49 based on srcrev, it is 10 commits behind Mar 22 18:50:01 mirko-paroli: i really often think about why life is like that :( still, thanks for trying. Mar 22 18:50:10 * DocScrutinizer happily sets light to the peace pipe and passes it to PaulFertser, mirko-paroli and the whole pow-wow Mar 22 18:50:27 DocScrutinizer: Pipe sounds like a good idea Mar 22 18:50:32 * mirko-paroli goes and smokes some Mar 22 18:50:44 * mirko-paroli means cigarettes Mar 22 18:50:44 * mwester starts to cough and choke, and falls over dead. Mar 22 18:51:04 PaulFertser: everything is fine for me but the patches getting ignored Mar 22 18:51:07 * PaulFertser would prefer uilleann pipes Mar 22 18:52:00 It looks to me that u-boot-openmoko_git.bb is correct: git://git.openmoko.org/git/u-boot.git;protocol=git;branch=stable Mar 22 18:52:04 mickey|zzZZzz: i think you got my point. :) Do a branch and queue patch there until some idea about maintaince forms, does it sound sane to you? Mar 22 18:52:16 sure Mar 22 18:52:18 yeah got paroli to freeze by pressing too many things at time Mar 22 18:52:24 i don#t have access yet Mar 22 18:52:29 * mwester will update the knife-kernel git repo to catch up to the official OM kernel repo, and offer a branch to anyone who wants.... Mar 22 18:52:34 roh: do i have access yet? qi and kernel please Mar 22 18:53:20 I have to push my updates from the 2.6.24 to 2.6.28 kernel branches anyway... might as well update it all. Mar 22 18:53:36 mickey|zzZZzz: the windows rndis patch can be pushed to andy-tracking and stable without fear of breaking anything btw. (imho again) Mar 22 18:54:37 mirko-paroli: hmm paroli/fso reports the wrong number (it shows +4370 instead of +43732 in front of the number) Mar 22 18:54:42 That one is indeed insular and harmless. Mar 22 18:55:12 PaulFertser: ok, i just recommended what you said to werner. lets see Mar 22 18:56:13 calling works btw. Mar 22 18:58:14 mickey|zzZZzz: i'm not the one to really do any kernel development recomendations of course, just wanted to say "hey, look out helter skelter" Mar 22 18:59:18 bumbl_: on an incoming call (the wring prefix i mean) Mar 22 19:00:08 paroli takes what it gets from the framework and that only what it gets from the provider iirc Mar 22 19:03:13 yes Mar 22 19:03:18 incoming call Mar 22 19:03:35 checked with a normal phone (nokia 6230i) there it works Mar 22 19:03:48 let me check Mar 22 19:03:53 btw. i was unable to aquire /tmp/paroli.log Mar 22 19:04:00 oh Mar 22 19:04:07 was not there Mar 22 19:04:10 or ssh probs?` Mar 22 19:04:12 as i could not ssh into it as usb0 was not there Mar 22 19:04:18 :( Mar 22 19:04:21 first boot? Mar 22 19:04:25 2nd Mar 22 19:04:30 hmpf Mar 22 19:04:36 rebooting and trying to Mar 22 19:04:41 reproduce Mar 22 19:07:05 reproduced Mar 22 19:07:15 nytowl: around? Mar 22 19:07:56 bumbl_: I checked again paroli gets the number from the framework, so maybe mickey|zzZZzz has an idea Mar 22 19:08:10 not to point fingers of course Mar 22 19:08:15 we would need the logs to be cetain Mar 22 19:08:18 certain Mar 22 19:08:44 could also be someting undiscovered in paroli, but from the code it seems we just display wat we are given Mar 22 19:09:10 i don't get a usb0 interface too ;( Mar 22 19:11:09 + featurerequest: power button long: shutdown Mar 22 19:11:37 bumbl_: that "should" work, there is an alternative rules file but it seems not to kick in Mar 22 19:11:51 if it still doesn't work it is a bug :( Mar 22 19:12:20 usb0, shutdown, frameworkd/provider does not work properly Mar 22 19:12:43 21/03/09 seems to be a very bad day ... Mar 22 19:13:17 at least suspend and resume with qi works Mar 22 19:13:26 which doesn't with actual fso and shr Mar 22 19:13:35 nytowl is tweaking a lot of things to get better performance and trying to get my exotic e revision in to the image Mar 22 19:13:36 because of a too old kernel Mar 22 19:15:08 * mirko-paroli is now afraid to flash image from 22nd Mar 22 19:15:32 there is none at the moment Mar 22 19:15:45 22-Mar-2009 16:37 86M Mar 22 19:16:25 http://downloads.openmoko.org/distro/experimental/NeoFreerunner/?C=M;O=A <- not here Mar 22 19:16:30 ah Mar 22 19:16:35 you are on experimental Mar 22 19:16:37 sry Mar 22 19:16:44 I am talking unstable Mar 22 19:17:02 * mirko-paroli should have asked first ... Mar 22 19:17:29 where is the difference? experimental stabler or unstabler than unstable Mar 22 19:17:48 unstable has only paroli in autorev I think Mar 22 19:17:55 in experimental there is more things on autorev Mar 22 19:19:08 i am downloading unstable right now Mar 22 19:19:19 will flash it and then let you know if usb etc works Mar 22 19:19:41 bumbl_: r u from berlin? Mar 22 19:19:49 no Mar 22 19:19:58 shame ;) Mar 22 19:20:09 ha Mar 22 19:20:11 not even in germany Mar 22 19:20:13 the phone number should have given it away ;) Mar 22 19:20:23 sry am a bit out of it Mar 22 19:20:35 a simple geoip/whois Mar 22 19:20:54 shows you an accurate position ;) Mar 22 19:21:28 * mirko-paroli goes searching for his brain Mar 22 19:21:38 hehe Mar 22 19:21:44 error brain.exe not found Mar 22 19:22:00 mickey|zzZZzz: sorry for the noise on vala.git's master. I had not made make clean and so did not see that I had an error... Mar 22 19:22:07 start brain.exe to find brain.exe Mar 22 19:22:10 * mirko-paroli expects to find it on a warm island without internet enjoying the well deserved vacation that the rest never got ... Mar 22 19:22:17 I have re bitbaked glib but I get this again: frameworkd-phonegui.c:21:18: error: glib.h: No such file or directory Mar 22 19:22:47 shr-stable? Mar 22 19:22:52 unstable Mar 22 19:23:03 ah. Mar 22 19:23:08 mwester: lol... stable :P Mar 22 19:23:12 Yeah it does stuff like that - that's why it's unstable. Mar 22 19:23:43 It took me almost two days to get unstable to build last week; now I do not want to update because I know it'll take another two days to get it to build again. Mar 22 19:24:00 there is need to be more work, that's because it's unstable so let's get rid of this stuff to make it stable Mar 22 19:24:15 That's nearly impossible Mar 22 19:24:28 The big problem is that unstable is pretty much defined as: Mar 22 19:24:32 is the code this broken? Mar 22 19:24:33 for each package; do Mar 22 19:24:43 fetch the tip of that packages upstream dev versions Mar 22 19:24:48 cross your fingers Mar 22 19:24:50 light a candle Mar 22 19:24:54 attmpe build Mar 22 19:24:56 done Mar 22 19:25:10 As you would expect, it tends to fail an awful lot! :D Mar 22 19:25:23 hmm it compiled two weeks ago Mar 22 19:25:26 mwester: shr-unstable? we have only frameworkd and few small packages i think Mar 22 19:25:32 yeah, it compiled last week once too. Mar 22 19:25:42 mwester: and shr-unstable is compiling for me almost every day Mar 22 19:25:53 (i have automated building on my server) Mar 22 19:26:06 dos1: IIRC most all of e is pulled from the tip of the svn repo for unstable. Mar 22 19:26:27 mwester: no, it's set by EFL_SRCREV in shr-unstable-autorev.inc Mar 22 19:26:31 dos1: automated building ONLY counts if you delete your TMPDIR regularly. Mar 22 19:26:32 try to bitbake ophonekitd now Mar 22 19:26:37 Otherwise you aren't really building. Mar 22 19:27:07 * mrmoku tries... Mar 22 19:27:09 dos1: my autobuilders delete TMPDIR for SlugOS builds weekly, and I find more OE brokenness than anyone else using OE, it seems. Mar 22 19:27:32 Does anyone know of a good kernel and rootfs that works well with a GTA01? Mar 22 19:27:34 Serdar: that won't fail, probably. Mar 22 19:27:39 s/shr-unstable-autorev/shr-autorev-unstable/ Mar 22 19:27:39 dos1 meant: mwester: no, it's set by EFL_SRCREV in shr-autorev-unstable.inc Mar 22 19:27:45 mwester, that failes here Mar 22 19:27:56 Serdar: the problem is likely to be deeper, a failure by glibc or something like that. Mar 22 19:28:19 it won't happen for mrmoku or dos1 because they sucessfully built glibc or whatever weeks and weeks ago, when it worked. Mar 22 19:28:32 glibc and glib-2.0 are bitbakeing but the glib.h is not found Mar 22 19:28:40 I've tried 4 kernels and more dists, but nothing works as good as 2.6.24 and fso from 13/3 Mar 22 19:29:08 bumbl_: flashing started Mar 22 19:29:18 will be back in 10 - 15 min to report status Mar 22 19:41:14 heyho Mar 22 19:41:16 mophis Mar 22 19:41:20 hej morphis Mar 22 19:42:24 morphis: hey... what do I have to do to be able to send mails to enlightenment-devel? Mar 22 19:42:49 morphis: would you mind fixing python-ecore? ;) Mar 22 19:43:12 (would make my mail obsolete and be preferred ;) Mar 22 19:43:13 mrmoku: simply subscribe to the list :) Mar 22 19:43:25 morphis: well... did that Mar 22 19:43:35 bumbl_: tell me what and I will :) Mar 22 19:43:45 mrmoku, does not work? Mar 22 19:43:51 nop :( Mar 22 19:44:10 send it three times... first unsubscribed... than subscribed... and then via my providers SMTP Mar 22 19:44:24 do you get something back? Mar 22 19:44:24 s/send/sent/ Mar 22 19:44:24 mrmoku meant: sent it three times... first unsubscribed... than subscribed... and then via my providers SMTP Mar 22 19:44:29 morphis: no Mar 22 19:44:45 when did you sent? Mar 22 19:45:09 12:15, 15:48 and 18:07 Mar 22 19:45:15 maybe its just deferred Mar 22 19:45:16 oh Mar 22 19:45:45 got my welcome mail on 15:45 Mar 22 19:45:50 so subscription worked Mar 22 19:45:54 you activated your account after the subscription? Mar 22 19:45:59 yep Mar 22 19:45:59 hm Mar 22 19:46:06 maybe sourceforge just sucks again? :] Mar 22 19:46:08 sounds interessting :) Mar 22 19:46:26 their lists are known to ... fail from time to time Mar 22 19:46:28 maybe Mar 22 19:46:43 anyway... if you fix python-ecore the mail is obsolete :D Mar 22 19:46:46 my last mail from e-devel is from yester 19:41 Mar 22 19:46:56 s/yester/yesterday/ Mar 22 19:46:57 morphis meant: my last mail from e-devel is from yesterday 19:41 Mar 22 19:47:22 sorry, last from raster today 5:07 Mar 22 19:48:16 * dos1 has just fallen in love with ewww / eve Mar 22 19:49:09 it's the best working browser i've ever seen on openmoko :) (except links-x11 and dillo) Mar 22 19:49:24 ;D Mar 22 19:50:38 dos1: there are packages on shr-testing for ewww/eve? Mar 22 19:51:18 morphis: no, i unpacked http://downloads.tuxfamily.org/3v1deb/openmoko/ewww-libeWebKit%2bgit20090109.tar.bz2 and moved libs from /usr/e17/ to /usr/ Mar 22 19:51:31 i would love to see bb recipe for it Mar 22 19:52:07 jepp, me too Mar 22 19:54:43 dos1: does it do ssl? Mar 22 19:55:05 mrmoku: wait a moment Mar 22 19:56:25 i think no :( Mar 22 19:57:05 but it's old version Mar 22 20:00:23 wpwrak: Werner! :) Mar 22 20:01:01 * wpwrak hates brownouts Mar 22 20:01:28 bumbl_: usb0 works on the unstable image Mar 22 20:01:37 wpwrak needs a big ol' generator. Mar 22 20:02:15 mwester: power actually good for some 40+ days Mar 22 20:02:30 ah ok Mar 22 20:03:11 * mwester has UPS on almost everything in his house. :( Mar 22 20:03:36 dos1: if the python-ecore thingie is sorted out I will try to do a recipe... if you don't beat me to it :P Mar 22 20:03:40 The power company is fine. It's the contractors that constantly cut cables all around. Mar 22 20:06:01 efl-webkit needs too much space Mar 22 20:14:58 i heard the latest andy-tracking kernels had squashfs support, i tried http://people.openmoko.org/andy/uImage-moredrivers-GTA02_andy-tracking-15ca3dafb2662db4.bin but i get: Mar 22 20:15:04 root@om-gta02 ~ $ modprobe squashfs Mar 22 20:15:04 FATAL: Could not load /lib/modules/2.6.29-GTA02_andy-tracking-mokodev/modules.dep: No such file or directory Mar 22 20:15:14 anyone know a sollution/kernel that would work? Mar 22 20:16:23 Zorkman: oh man! Mar 22 20:16:34 Zorkman: did you install the modules? Mar 22 20:17:36 :( oh man i'm stupid Mar 22 20:17:43 thanks Mar 22 20:22:02 ewww Mar 22 20:22:06 fancy name Mar 22 20:24:39 it's called eve nowadays Mar 22 20:27:58 Re: http://downloads.openmoko.org/distro/unstable/daily/om-gta02/2009032 u-boot not being head of stable Mar 22 20:28:32 I guess it is because conf/distro/include/sane-srcrevs.inc has: Mar 22 20:28:44 SRCREV_pn-u-boot-openmoko ?= "650149a53dbdd48bf6dfef90930c8ab182adb512" Mar 22 20:28:58 Correct? Mar 22 20:30:43 But doesn't that defeat the purpose of a daily unstable? Mar 22 20:32:49 daily unstable doesn't necessarily translate into the tip of the source tree for everything :-) Mar 22 20:35:29 else58: i guess you're asking the question in the wrong place. I'm not sure Angus reads this channel and it looks like nobody else cares about the OM-the-company official images. Mar 22 20:35:36 Hi guys Mar 22 20:36:30 Will Freerunner charge while flashing? It turns off while I'm in NAND u-boot. Mar 22 20:39:07 PaulFertser: just out of curiousity, what do you mean when you say "OM" Mar 22 20:39:13 and not OM-the-company Mar 22 20:39:14 ? Mar 22 20:39:41 mirko-paroli: i don't say OM ;) Mar 22 20:39:44 PaulFertser: ok thanks. I'm just coming upto speed on bitbake Mar 22 20:39:57 PaulFertser: ah k, that explains it ;) Mar 22 20:40:38 mirko-paroli: the reason i write OM-the-company is to highlight the differences between the company itself (and its managers) and community of developers (both officially employed and independent) and users. Mar 22 20:40:40 So, does u-boot request the 500mA charge current or it just discharges the battery while flashing in DFU mode? Mar 22 20:41:09 PaulFertser: was just curious Mar 22 20:41:13 mirko-paroli: you know OM-the-company is the company described in TRIsoft letter :( Mar 22 20:41:15 seemed so very long to write Mar 22 20:41:41 PaulFertser: which trisoft letter? Mar 22 20:41:58 bumbl_: about the official status of buzz rework. Very informative. Mar 22 20:42:12 do you have a link? Mar 22 20:42:36 * bumbl_ has to set up his email client again Mar 22 20:43:18 ah i think i have it Mar 22 20:43:46 bumbl_: http://www.mail-archive.com/community@lists.openmoko.org/msg41607.html Mar 22 20:44:07 mirko-paroli: do you know the IRC nick of Angus? Mar 22 20:47:14 HtR_0xEF: I assume not. there's a uboot cmd: "noe1973 charger status" that will show Mar 22 20:47:37 mine shows usb_suspend Mar 22 20:47:43 else58: any particular reason you care about NAND u-boot? Mar 22 20:47:51 if anyone has a recent and working (battery level) andy-kernel, could you please upload it to someplace? Mar 22 20:49:25 PaulFertser: well without a debug board, that is the closest I can get to the hw Mar 22 20:49:54 would be nytowl Mar 22 20:50:10 else58: i see. But do you really need to be so close to the hw? Do you know you can tweak GPIO and PMU directly from userspace? Mar 22 20:50:25 PaulFertser: tough letter Mar 22 20:50:31 but certainly a good read Mar 22 20:50:53 mirko-paroli: indeed. Frank too. Mar 22 20:50:58 yepp Mar 22 20:52:18 k, i'll crawl back into the cave I came out of this morning Mar 22 20:52:20 mirko-paroli: don't get me wrong, i wish well for any company that aims at doing good stuff for people, not shit for money. OM had (maybe still has) a great potential. It's a pity to see how it's loosing it :( I don't fight, i just wish success to the project. Mar 22 20:52:34 PaulFertser: yes, once you get to a usable console Mar 22 20:52:39 PaulFertser: angus = nytowl Mar 22 20:53:04 else58: now you know the nick of the guy who maintains the images at downloads.openmoko.org :) Mar 22 20:53:23 * mwester notes that nick and name pair Mar 22 20:53:28 PaulFertser: I see your point and didn't think you were only after destructing OM(-the-company) Mar 22 20:53:35 and writes to his non-volatile storage Mar 22 20:54:27 wishing is a start...but yeah ... anyhow Mar 22 20:54:35 I'll shut off :) Mar 22 20:54:37 * PaulFertser is not only after destructing OM-the-company, he also aims for the World Domination Mar 22 20:54:52 * mirko-paroli waves in all directions and then runs and hides from PaulFertser Mar 22 20:55:08 night, mirko-paroli Mar 22 20:55:27 mirko-paroli: see ya :? Mar 22 20:55:39 err :) Mar 22 20:55:59 PaulFertser: missed that, oh now I see. Thanks Mar 22 20:56:21 else58: btw, why do you have problems getting to userspace? Any secret low-level project? Mar 22 21:00:22 PaulFertser: just depends on what distribution I'm using, but I'm just more comfortable in u-boot console Mar 22 21:10:00 morphis: hehe... got two mails from e-devel list... but not mine :( Mar 22 21:10:09 hm Mar 22 21:10:25 maybe you mails are marked as spam :) Mar 22 21:19:49 morphis: yeah... spamming e devels with work ;) Mar 22 21:19:59 :) Mar 22 21:20:02 :) Mar 22 21:21:20 spaetz, I have seen you are currently working on a vala version of shr-settings Mar 22 21:22:13 maybe the replacement for python shr-settings in the future? Mar 22 21:22:20 working on is a bit exaggeratedd. I am trying to learn vala, so I decided tostart with an shr-settings like app Mar 22 21:22:37 basically to see if there is a speed difference. and oh boy, there is :-) Mar 22 21:22:52 it's fun to have an app start up in sub-seconds Mar 22 21:23:00 :) Mar 22 21:23:32 and have a reaction on clicking a button. mickey's elm-vala bindings are really cool too Mar 22 21:23:36 quite complete Mar 22 21:23:59 oh Mar 22 21:24:03 i forgot Mar 22 21:24:23 yeah, no so comfortable like python but the speed is the must have argument :) Mar 22 21:24:53 I love python, it is my language of choice. But the speed difference is quite big Mar 22 21:25:07 jepp Mar 22 21:25:11 at least on a device like the FR :) Mar 22 21:26:13 spaetz: sounds rather intriguing :) Mar 22 21:26:42 DocScrutinizer: yep Mar 22 21:30:13 we need python-launcher... Mar 22 21:30:36 first we need someone fixing python-ecore..... Mar 22 21:31:13 dos1: yep, starting up python takes quite some time. but I am not sure if always keeping python loaded is the right approach either Mar 22 21:31:45 uses quite some precious RAM Mar 22 21:32:24 spaetz: now frameworkd is keeping python loaded Mar 22 21:32:32 mrmoku: what needs to be patched on python-ecore atm? Mar 22 21:32:44 loosely related: /temp is a ramdisk basically, no? Mar 22 21:33:01 btw. i just commited patch to shr-settings which improves finger-friendliness on main screen Mar 22 21:33:06 dos1: I have some some simply python-launcher approach here: http://git.gravedo.de/?p=pyl.git;a=summary Mar 22 21:34:01 morphis: how does it work? Mar 22 21:34:46 you start a daemon (written in python) which has a dbus interface and launches other python applications on a dbus call Mar 22 21:35:21 dos1: cool Mar 22 21:35:23 so, can i again ask someone to kick the autobuilder for the gta01? Mar 22 21:35:23 the next thing is a simple vala application which you feed with the name and path of your application and it calls the daemon through dbus Mar 22 21:35:42 then the daemon launches the application Mar 22 21:36:18 there was already some approach from Sargun at the fs-ml for frameworkd Mar 22 21:36:20 morphis: building fails due to lots of undefined symbols... from x input events Mar 22 21:36:26 morphis: want some log? Mar 22 21:36:34 mrmoku, jepp Mar 22 21:36:53 ok, have to go now Mar 22 21:36:53 cu Mar 22 21:36:58 cya Mar 22 21:38:36 iirc there's been a pythonloader for months... Mar 22 21:39:26 morphis: http://build.shr-project.org/tests/python-ecore.log Mar 22 21:39:47 DocScrutinizer, where? Mar 22 21:40:06 mrmoku, its current svn? Mar 22 21:40:07 dunno, sitting in a pub ;) Mar 22 21:40:14 DocScrutinizer, ok :) Mar 22 21:40:41 seem to remember [devel] posts from last autumn Mar 22 21:41:02 DocScrutinizer, I will look for Mar 22 21:41:29 morphis: yep... well almost Mar 22 21:41:46 iee Mar 22 21:41:48 python-evas-0.3.1+svnr39618-ml0/ Mar 22 21:41:57 I have to rebuild complete e first Mar 22 21:42:07 ehh ecore... but 39618 :-) Mar 22 21:42:13 will do this tomorrow and fix the build error than Mar 22 21:42:22 ok, thanks :-) Mar 22 21:42:30 no problem :-) Mar 22 21:42:34 has anyone tried the fennec beta yet? Mar 22 21:42:45 so, I will go to bed Mar 22 21:42:51 good night everybody Mar 22 21:42:52 sleep well then Mar 22 21:43:03 mrmoku, iep, fbreader working ok now, thanks to you or spaetz or who has solved it :P Mar 22 21:43:25 I didn't do anything Mar 22 21:47:38 Sharwin_F-: yeah... rebuilt it manually... don't undestand why it was broken though Mar 22 22:07:23 #freerunner-android Mar 22 22:07:39 or what was the channel Mar 22 22:07:40 eeekk Mar 22 22:07:42 * mrmoku runs Mar 22 22:08:20 hehehe Mar 22 22:11:25 I'm testing identical SHR sessions, one with the most recent 2.6.29, and another with a 2.6.24 kernel. With 2.6.24, it's noticeably faster, with enlightenment using 0% of the cpu when the UI is idle. With 2.6.29, it's at 15%. Is this known? Are the causes known? Mar 22 22:12:15 mrmrmoku Mar 22 22:12:59 mrmrmrmrmrmokoku Mar 22 22:13:03 :D Mar 22 22:13:17 rm mrmoku ? omg Mar 22 22:13:49 D: Mar 22 22:16:10 MRMOKU ? Mar 22 22:16:39 seems he's been running far... Mar 22 22:18:21 budfive: this is a known problem. Mar 22 22:18:34 The causes, however, are not known. Mar 22 22:18:49 Can't be that hard to figure it out, but those in a position to do so are working on other things, it seems. Mar 22 22:19:17 pfffooh, so I hadn't to delete my intended response Mar 22 22:20:31 mwester: any idea about what it's connected to? I did a few benchmarks, but was unable to pinpoint anything. the two bootcharts are more or less identical, for example Mar 22 22:22:15 the window manager is getting a constant stream of events, but nobody has instrumented the code to find out what those events are. Just renaming a .desktop file (for the icons) and putting it back in place makes it stop. That should be a clue, but as I said, nobody who knows about this stuff has really looked at it. It's been like this for 4 weeks? 8 weeks? Dunno, but a loooooooong time. Mar 22 22:23:15 It's probably something that one of the devs familiar with the windowing system could solve in 1 unit of time, while it would take any of the rest of us 100 units of time, just because we have no idea of the internals. :( Mar 22 22:23:22 actually even raster got aware of it afaik Mar 22 22:23:34 raster has known of it since the beginning. Mar 22 22:23:58 I worked with him to track down the socket in question, but then he went off travelling. Mar 22 22:24:31 hmmm, :-/ Mar 22 22:24:38 It only happens on SHR. SHR devs seem to think E should look at it, and E people think SHR should look at it --- that's my bet ;-) Mar 22 22:25:29 yup sounds like a good guess Mar 22 22:25:59 so it seems to be shr-specific? I see other behaviors that may be related. For example the python-elementary toggles are extremely sluggish on the newer kernel and very responsive on the older one. Mar 22 22:26:44 hi Mar 22 22:27:01 what is the difference between make image and make shr-image? Mar 22 22:27:17 and only make Mar 22 22:27:27 There are almost certainly multiple issues, budfive. The glamo driver may be different, or even such small things as the default clock speeds for the glamo between the kernels. Mar 22 22:27:31 I don't see any difference, but it seems so Mar 22 22:27:55 mwester: there is a glamo driver in the kernel? Mar 22 22:28:05 of course! Mar 22 22:28:15 otherwise you couldn't use the hardware! Mar 22 22:29:54 mwester: do you know if this is a 2.6.24/2.6.28 issue, or could there be some revision of 2.6.28 that caused it? Do you know if anybody did a search at some point? Mar 22 22:30:14 I've told you everything I know at this point, I'm afraid. Mar 22 22:30:30 mwester: ok. thanks. i'm going to look into some of these tonight, to educate myself about the internals if for no other reason Mar 22 22:33:57 mwester: actually PAN working quite nice once setup, even in a pub ;) Mar 22 22:34:35 DocScrutinizer: then I must come to the conclusion that my PAN troubles are due to my Treo setup, and not the N800. Mar 22 22:36:24 maybe. there been issues my pan-"dummy" interface didn't recognice pocket-pc for a valid PAN host. had to do some cmdline magic to put it to work Mar 22 22:42:43 alphaone: hi! :) Mar 22 22:43:07 H DocScrutinizer Mar 22 22:43:09 i Mar 22 22:43:14 :-) Mar 22 22:44:29 vertical chat... interesting :P Mar 22 22:44:47 Hehe Mar 22 22:46:16 nec Mar 22 22:46:20 ovh Mar 22 22:46:27 tei Mar 22 22:46:36 nn Mar 22 22:46:39 e Mar 22 22:46:41 s Mar 22 22:46:43 e Mar 22 22:47:07 yeah.. .chinese would be interesting also ;) Mar 22 22:47:15 try japanese. left to right is inverted. Mar 22 22:47:36 -_- Mar 22 22:47:58 ?siht ekil Mar 22 22:48:17 ¿ Mar 22 22:48:53 upsidedown :-) anyway me is going to bed now... chat in whatever language you all like :P Mar 22 22:48:59 night Mar 22 22:49:11 n8 Mar 22 22:51:19 :D Mar 22 22:58:36 * tomboy64 starts chatting in ook Mar 22 22:58:55 what's ook? Mar 22 22:59:01 Ook. Ook! Ook? Ook? Ook! Ook. Mar 22 22:59:24 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ook! Mar 22 22:59:48 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ook! Mar 22 22:59:51 monkey talk! Mar 22 22:59:52 grrr Mar 22 22:59:56 * mwester ducks Mar 22 23:00:02 http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/ook.html Mar 22 23:00:07 mwester, almost Mar 22 23:00:26 Librarian-speak, actually. Mar 22 23:00:46 what's piet to you then? Mar 22 23:01:02 http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/piet.html Mar 22 23:01:20 * mwester can't follow urls with this client Mar 22 23:01:35 lol Mar 22 23:01:52 you really should Mar 22 23:02:03 it's worthwhile reading Mar 22 23:02:12 If someone could fix the client, I would Mar 22 23:04:28 so, anyone.. will neo charge during the DFU flash? It tends to poweroff in the middle of the procedure, and then I have to charge it... Btw, how much time does it take for freerunner to charge using its charger? Mar 22 23:05:21 HtR_0xEF, press aux while inserting the fr without battery Mar 22 23:05:26 HtR_0xEF: LOL!! you're supposed to flash with **fully_charged_battery** Mar 22 23:05:43 inserting the usb-cable, that is Mar 22 23:07:08 if battery is empty, and you got no functional rootfs, see wili "charging with uBoot" OWTTE Mar 22 23:07:27 s/wili/wiki/ Mar 22 23:07:27 DocScrutinizer meant: if battery is empty, and you got no functional rootfs, see wiki "charging with uBoot" OWTTE Mar 22 23:08:23 which boils down to: "enter uBoot menu and select powerdown" Mar 22 23:12:23 HtR_0xEF: (time) 1h should suffice for getting a bat you can flash without any problems Mar 22 23:14:16 HtR_0xEF: it's a little difficult to tell how long a *complete* charge will take, as carging gets incredibly slow when reaching ~95% full of bat Mar 22 23:15:09 night all Mar 22 23:15:12 after 1h you should have some 80% at least Mar 22 23:15:18 OK, i charged it for one hour (it was turned off during charging). Will try to upload 256Mb rootfs (it takes 2 hours or even more..) Mar 22 23:15:19 cya alphaone Mar 22 23:15:39 huh??? Mar 22 23:16:24 flashing rootfs shouldn't take more than ~20min Mar 22 23:17:01 hmm.. It is slow on Win2K, WinXP and FreeBSD machines. Have not tried it on Linux. Mar 22 23:19:17 man, that's kinda BAD :-/ Mar 22 23:19:40 OK, I will try it on some Linux... Mar 22 23:19:42 HtR_0xEF: btw, you can boot from uSD and flash from userspace. Mar 22 23:20:00 Or from userspace.. next time Mar 22 23:20:09 btw Mar 22 23:20:37 When I download the kernel using the DFU util, I get the 11Mb or so image Mar 22 23:20:49 download from freerunner to the computer Mar 22 23:21:27 HtR_0xEF: size of the kernel partition, i presume. Mar 22 23:21:34 May I stop the process at 2nd megabyte just because I know that the kernel I've uploaded previously is 1.7 Mb? Mar 22 23:22:10 HtR_0xEF: dfu-util download is borked since beginning of time Mar 22 23:23:10 I saw some patch that should have fixed that issue. I have the Mar 21 2009 uboot. Should it be OK?.. Mar 22 23:23:24 HtR_0xEF: if you're using a recent u-boot, i guess yes, the issue is fixed. Mar 22 23:25:58 HtR_0xEF: any particular reason why you want to download from freerunner to the computer? Mar 22 23:28:57 I made a backup of my rootfs before trying the FYP release. I used dfu-util for backup. Now I think that my backup should be broken because of the old uboot. I'll try to restore the backup anyway and see if it still boots. I think I will boot from the SD and flash from the SD next time, not with dfu-util.. Mar 22 23:29:35 Frankly, with the state of development as it is, there isn't much point to backing up images from the phone. Mar 22 23:30:06 They are obsolete within days for the images that are under development, and for the ones that are not, well why flash them in the first place? Mar 22 23:33:18 well I'll have to do the "opkg install blah-blah" 30 times after installing the original ("OK") image, configure dropbear startup script, X11 for listening on TCP/IP, move away the tor startup script (because it starts up every time after it is installed), configure GPRS, WiFi.. It would be 50% faster to do all this stuff with a backup and restore. And besides, I have some priceless drawings :) :) in that python-based drawing program.. Mar 22 23:34:20 And I'll have to install some packages from other sites (packages are not in the original repository). Mar 22 23:34:36 for that you could patch/create your own BB recipe for image... Mar 22 23:34:39 I guess :) Mar 22 23:34:53 a recipe that contains what packages you want to have included Mar 22 23:35:52 It sounds like HtR_0xEF is making the mistake of trying to use it as a day-to-day PDA! :D Mar 22 23:35:53 HtR_0xEF: for the rootfs maybe a simple scp might do the job? Mar 22 23:35:54 HtR_0xEF: why don't you want to run everything from uSD instead? Mar 22 23:41:18 I don't know what is BB recipe (esp. "BB") but I think I'll write the script to do all "opkg install" and some changes.. Mar 22 23:41:18 Well firefox3 is hardly usable but I can show it to my friends at least )) Dilo seems to be better than Opera Mini on my BB (BlackBerry). Mar 22 23:41:18 And mounting USB flash drives seems to be very cool :) Mar 22 23:41:21 There is one thing that prevents me from using it as day-to-day smartphone.. It is really quiet while talking )) And the other side may hear nasty GSM sounds on their side. And I have some little troubles using my bluetooth headset (it just does not work LOL) So I use it mostly as PDA.. )) Mar 22 23:42:44 It's very cool to enable A2DP bluetooth from the commandline just because I'm the only one who can use that thing )) Mar 22 23:43:11 A little bit not comfortable.. But absolutely exclusive. Mar 22 23:43:51 HtR_0xEF: have you tried the recent instructions to use bluetooth headset? Mar 22 23:44:10 HtR_0xEF: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_Bluetooth#Once_Again.2C_Bluetooth_Headset_on_Freerunner Mar 22 23:44:45 I tried and I failed with A2DP. Actually it is mplayer that does not have the "-ao alsa" option. Mar 22 23:46:39 Bluetooth A2DP channel seems to be established.. I just wonder what program should be able to play to BT headphones (mplayer has oss output and no alsa output). Mar 22 23:51:08 htr: try alsaplayer? Mar 22 23:51:19 i mean, i know its just audio, but... Mar 22 23:51:37 ok, i'll try it next time, thanks for the hint Mar 22 23:52:08 alsaplayer has the ability to address multiple audio cards in a linux box. Mar 23 00:03:11 juri juri juri Mar 23 00:06:18 juri_: really? ;) Mar 23 00:07:18 HtR_0xEF: your mplayer seems borked Mar 23 00:43:24 mwester: btw- "change" connection in maemo conmanager from "DUMMY"-PAN to standard WiFi brainfucks DNS beyond recover. Need to "unconnect" then select new connection WiFi to fix Mar 23 01:34:42 HtR_0xEF: if everything else fails you might use aoss and mplayer's oss audio Mar 23 01:35:33 HtR_0xEF: still I don't see why mplayer doesn't work with alsa audio **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Mar 23 02:59:57 2009