**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Apr 06 02:59:58 2009 Apr 06 05:26:29 mrmoku|e`: hello Apr 06 05:26:47 mrmoku|e`: did you have any progress for the bb recipes ? Apr 06 06:27:10 Hi, anyone, now how to fix this toolchain warning/error: libtool: link: warning: library `/usr/local/openmoko/arm/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/usr/lib/libdbus-glib-1.la' was moved. Apr 06 06:46:10 I suppose it's not that big of a deal unless I plan on linking to libdbus Apr 06 06:47:01 good morning Apr 06 06:49:35 morning Apr 06 06:49:49 morning (it's night here :) Apr 06 06:49:59 ptitjes: mrmoku is gone already for the next 2 weeks, isn't he? Apr 06 06:50:14 eolson: on IRC it's always morning when one joins :) Apr 06 06:50:54 spaetz, ah, then it's almost always morning :) Apr 06 06:51:13 ptitjes: which is a pity as I really would have like to push current -unstable to -testing. Even with the mysterious some SIMS aren't shown in the messages app bug Apr 06 06:51:20 eolson: :) Apr 06 06:52:49 raster: 80 character limit forces you to write shot funcions :-). Not much nesting possible then... Apr 06 06:53:04 short functions, rather Apr 06 06:53:47 spaetz: you can break statements over lines Apr 06 06:53:48 :) Apr 06 06:53:59 there is a reason my variables tend to be like Apr 06 06:54:00 o Apr 06 06:54:00 i Apr 06 06:54:01 j Apr 06 06:54:05 x Apr 06 06:54:05 y Apr 06 06:54:10 v Apr 06 06:54:14 ot Apr 06 06:54:15 tb Apr 06 06:54:18 lb Apr 06 06:54:20 etc :) Apr 06 07:00:23 hehe Apr 06 07:00:35 I rather like more self-documenting names Apr 06 07:00:49 o == object Apr 06 07:00:54 i ,j == loop counters (always) Apr 06 07:00:57 x,y = coordsx Apr 06 07:01:01 w, h (width, height) Apr 06 07:01:02 same with i,j,n Apr 06 07:01:12 o would be obj here already :) Apr 06 07:01:14 ot "Object Table" for example Apr 06 07:01:23 obj_tab Apr 06 07:01:24 tb == TaBle Apr 06 07:01:27 :) Apr 06 07:01:29 LB == LaBel Apr 06 07:01:39 I'm a spoilt python-brat Apr 06 07:01:52 python heretic! Apr 06 07:01:53 :) Apr 06 07:01:58 my code needs to look like pseudo-code or I don't get it Apr 06 07:02:04 hello everyone~ Apr 06 07:03:44 I'd like to port a gsmd to linux4palm, which one should I start, gsmd, ogsmd, 0710muxd or fso-0710muxd or any other? I'm totally confused with all these blobs .... Apr 06 07:05:08 emfox: and by gsmd you mean that old libgsm? Apr 06 07:05:12 emfox: from the OM2007 times? Apr 06 07:05:34 emfox: or you're just looking for something that works good with gsm modems? Apr 06 07:05:59 emfox: does your target support GSM 07.10? Apr 06 07:08:56 emfox: The better approach is port trough freesmartphone Apr 06 07:09:23 PaulFertser: I'm sorry but could you repeat? I just disconnected Apr 06 07:09:46 methril|work: so you mean I start work on fso-gsm0710muxd ? Apr 06 07:10:09 emfox: and by gsmd you mean that old libgsm? Apr 06 07:10:12 emfox: from the OM2007 times? Apr 06 07:10:15 emfox: or you're just looking for something that works good with gsm modems? Apr 06 07:10:18 emfox: does your target support GSM 07.10? Apr 06 07:10:51 emfox`: no, better take a look at this: http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=framework.git;a=tree;f=framework/subsystems/ogsmd/gsm;h=5233457681ea696112862b32284dafc9090e9ee4;hb=HEAD Apr 06 07:11:00 methril|work: better than what? Apr 06 07:11:13 methril|work: shouldn't we understand first what he wants? ;) Apr 06 07:11:57 PaulFertser: yes, but if he wants to carry on with the supported platform, is better to don't waste time with old libgsm Apr 06 07:12:13 PaulFertser: better than any other option Apr 06 07:12:15 methril|work: we don't even know yet if he was going to do that at all :) Apr 06 07:12:39 * methril|work nods Apr 06 07:14:39 methril|work: as to the better options... Imagine he's a great vala hacker. Then he'd better help improve cornucopia ;) Apr 06 07:15:11 You may know that, debian now runs on a Palm Treo phone, and I could now make phone calls and gprs data communications via minicom Apr 06 07:15:12 PaulFertser: well, i prefer vala than python :) Apr 06 07:15:33 emfox`: do you know if your modem supports channel multiplexing. Apr 06 07:15:38 all I want now is to implement a phone (calling and gprs and sms etc) gui Apr 06 07:16:48 PaulFertser: I don't know what exactly multiplexing is. I could make phone calls when a gprs connection is keeping on Apr 06 07:17:16 emfox`: what is your modem? Apr 06 07:18:05 PaulFertser: I do not know. maybe any AT command could tell me that? Apr 06 07:18:31 emfox`: GSM 07.10 is a protocol that allows channel multiplexing -- usage of several virtual channels over one physical serial port. Apr 06 07:18:40 emfox`: AT+CMUX is the command Apr 06 07:19:36 PaulFertser: AT+CMUX Apr 06 07:19:36 OK Apr 06 07:19:36 Apr 06 07:19:53 emfox`: AT+CMUX=? Apr 06 07:20:43 PaulFertser: +CMUX: (0),(0),(1,5),(31-127),(10),(3),(30),(10),(1,7) Apr 06 07:20:52 emfox`: ok, that's good, multiplexing is available :) Apr 06 07:21:10 emfox`: so, you have two options: Apr 06 07:21:49 emfox`: first, try to use fso-abyss (good modern multiplexing daemon), probably it will work OOTB. Apr 06 07:22:17 emfox`: then port ogsmd (python subsystem of FSO) to work with your modem. Apr 06 07:22:36 emfox`: second, start by porting ogsmd pretending that your modem is single-line. Apr 06 07:22:46 emfox`: imho the first method is much better. Apr 06 07:23:25 PaulFertser: is there any binarys now I can try at once? Apr 06 07:23:30 emfox`: if you're fluent in vala, you might want to start with hacking an ongoing vala reimplementation of FSO (including ogsmd). It's called cornucopia in the repo. Apr 06 07:24:19 PaulFertser: fso is being redone in vala? Do you know why? Was Mickey unhappy with python? Apr 06 07:24:52 emfox`: hm, don't know about the binaries. And compiling fso-abyss requires vala too. You might also want to try gsm0710muxd (it's originated from pyneo.org project and is used with FSO for some time), binaries for that can be easily found. Apr 06 07:24:56 PaulFertser: I know c and python well. but even not heard of vala ... Apr 06 07:25:01 budfive_: yes, performance issues. Apr 06 07:25:16 budfive_: Mickey loves python, but is testing Vala, and gives better performance (it's native) Apr 06 07:25:21 emfox`: vala is a new fancy glib/gobject based language that is compiled to C code. Apr 06 07:25:53 PaulFertser: ok... I'll try it later Apr 06 07:26:05 i've to learn vala better :) Apr 06 07:26:56 emfox`: btw, any work on porting FSO/FSO2 to other devices is highly appreciated and devs will help you if you have any questions about code organisation, problems etc. Apr 06 07:27:17 emfox`: cornucopia=="FSO2" Apr 06 07:28:54 budfive_: are you reading about the latest Dieter findings? :) Apr 06 07:29:13 PaulFertser: yep. thrilling. :) Apr 06 07:29:41 PaulFertser: i'm really tempted to try to swap that resistor. Apr 06 07:34:11 budfive_: have you unglued wifi module prior to opening the can? Apr 06 07:35:16 * PaulFertser tries to count probability that he'll be able to find 0402 220k R on a defective nvidia card... Apr 06 07:36:03 PaulFertser: it's not glued per se. It's more of a tacky goo. You can just pull the wifi module off Apr 06 07:36:21 PaulFertser: are you going to try? Apr 06 07:37:05 PaulFertser: the stupid thing is right next to the edge of the can, and it's surrounded by many other tiny components. You'll need to cut off some of the can, and be deadly with your soldering skills Apr 06 07:38:21 budfive_: for me to try it, i first need to find a suitable resistor, then to practice using my old clumsy iron to solder 0402, then to finally try it... And i guess part of the can holder can be just cut off without worries , as i can implement a shield later by other means. Apr 06 07:39:09 PaulFertser: the problem isn't just that it's small, it's that it's surrounded by other similarly tiny parts, all of them jammed in there Apr 06 07:39:31 budfive_: yeah, i know. Probably i'd be too scare to try it after i see the place... Apr 06 07:39:31 PaulFertser: thanks for the infos. I'll try them later Apr 06 07:39:44 PaulFertser: i was very concerned that while doing the soldering, i'd accidentally take off another part that's next to it Apr 06 07:39:49 emfox: you're welcome Apr 06 07:40:41 PaulFertser: does dieter not have the sufficent equipment? Apr 06 07:41:00 budfive_: he has, but he can't reproduce it "in the field". Apr 06 07:41:08 PaulFertser, budfive_: are you talking about buzz fix? Apr 06 07:41:16 methril|work: no. #1024 Apr 06 07:41:21 methril|work: no :) something _much_ harder and risky :) Apr 06 07:42:24 PaulFertser: that's good then. If he can make #1024 happen by heating the xtal, he can replace the resistor with his fancy tools and try it himself Apr 06 07:42:35 * PaulFertser should probably finally buy a soldering iron with really short tip. Apr 06 07:42:44 i've one Apr 06 07:42:58 PaulFertser: 0.2 mm tip :) Apr 06 07:43:06 PaulFertser: If I knew that fixing the resistor would fix the problem, I'd be a lot more comfortable with attempting the fix Apr 06 07:43:15 i'm doing the buzz fix with that (i'm helping tuxbrain to do it) Apr 06 07:43:48 budfive_: heating the xtal is not that controllable. Probably he will not be able to compare pre-fix and post-fix results. Apr 06 07:44:05 PaulFertser,budfive_ : i never have this issue Apr 06 07:44:59 methril|work: for occasional work i can just take a copper wire of suitable diameter and sharpen it accordingly. It's the length between the tip and the handle of my iron that bothering me. Apr 06 08:12:04 TAsn: ping Apr 06 08:12:17 which package exactly is needed for UTF8 locales? Apr 06 08:15:25 I'd add it to the feed Apr 06 08:15:49 although I think the build host is configured to skip local generation and I cannot change that Apr 06 08:16:23 spaetz: at least those who need it can generate locale on device. Apr 06 08:16:38 PaulFertser: locally they can compile it anyway. Apr 06 08:16:51 Would just be convenient to have it available via opkg for those that want it Apr 06 08:16:59 spaetz: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Localization Apr 06 08:17:15 ahh, good to know. Apr 06 08:17:29 DocScrutinizer: is very popular these days, thanks to Steve :) Apr 06 08:17:58 mickey|zzZZzz: morning, this is your wakeup call Apr 06 08:18:23 currently the eflvala comaand queue is just a string. Can we add a void* data pointer? Apr 06 08:18:34 so I can pass objects with a command? Apr 06 08:19:46 And i have to admit i now like Steve's mails. Apr 06 08:31:02 does usb0 work with recent kernels? Mine doesn't come up on shr-unstable, it seems Apr 06 08:33:05 spaetz: for me it's eth1 half the time; don't know why Apr 06 08:33:19 spaetz: look in the system log of the host Apr 06 08:34:18 mmh, no modules loaded at all Apr 06 08:34:27 what's it called g-ether? Apr 06 08:34:30 g_ether? Apr 06 08:36:56 mmh, nneded to run depmod first Apr 06 08:59:17 budfive_: what's the sleep period of the cell with which you have recamping? ;) Apr 06 08:59:39 TAsn!! Apr 06 08:59:44 Interested in your unicode thingie Apr 06 08:59:47 Ainulindale: ! Apr 06 08:59:57 Ainulindale: look here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Localization Apr 06 09:00:20 Ainulindale: basically a utf8 locale needed to be compiled and used :) Apr 06 09:01:09 PaulFertser: 2 Apr 06 09:01:51 budfive_: 6 here (and i've sometimes had recamping here, i guess, but not always. i can try; What unsol should i enable in mickeyterm to see that?) Apr 06 09:03:07 Ainulindale: do you think we can add a UTF8 locale to the -unstable build host? Apr 06 09:03:38 I think I remember that mrmoku once said, locale generatation was totally turned off in local.conf or so Apr 06 09:04:39 Hmmm that's weird because IIRC it wasn't Apr 06 09:04:39 spaetz: that's because qemu is required to do that iirc ;) Apr 06 09:05:08 Ainulindale: no clue about the build host setup, just think I remember it Apr 06 09:05:12 might be totally wrong though Apr 06 09:05:19 Well IIRC we compiled EVERY locale Apr 06 09:05:23 But we don't ship any Apr 06 09:06:27 ahh, right there are tons of locale packages in the unstable repository Apr 06 09:06:29 ok, then Apr 06 09:06:43 PaulFertser: i don't know how to use mickeyterm other then giving it simple commands, but recamping shows up in "tail -f /var/log/frameworkd.log" Apr 06 09:07:11 Well I can't remember which one to install though (in fact, I can't remember the name) Apr 06 09:07:21 neither do I :) Apr 06 09:07:24 budfive_: i want to see some unsolicited "replies" from the modem when it loses registration. Apr 06 09:10:49 raster? Apr 06 09:11:24 budfive_: looks like i can't reproduce #1024 here. I usually see it at least once when i come to my workplace in the morning. Apr 06 09:11:29 Ainulindale: boo! Apr 06 09:12:47 PaulFertser: bouncing nicely here Apr 06 09:13:15 raster: mii! Apr 06 09:13:24 raster: Quick question for you, about this input utf8 issues Apr 06 09:13:28 when was which year was Openmoko (the project) started? Apr 06 09:13:28 raster: which locale should we install? Apr 06 09:13:40 ummmm.... i.. don't know Apr 06 09:13:41 budfive_: it'd be interesting to compare that time in bouncing and non-bouncing cases. Apr 06 09:13:50 i really dont Apr 06 09:14:10 Ok then I'll wait for TAsn :-) Apr 06 09:14:12 Thanks anyway Apr 06 09:14:20 sorry :( Apr 06 09:14:25 Ainulindale: en_US.UTF-8 will do Apr 06 09:14:53 well, what do I have to do exactly? what do I need to install? :-) Apr 06 09:15:00 The webpage isn't really explicit. Apr 06 09:15:06 (And I'm still waking up) Apr 06 09:16:04 Ainulindale: the locale itself and set environment variable LC_ALL to en_US.UTF-8. I guess that should be enough for basics. As to the keyboard layout -- that's something e-specific, i've no idea. Apr 06 09:16:22 Keyboard layout, I don't care Apr 06 09:16:28 By locale you mean the glib locale? Apr 06 09:16:31 Yes Apr 06 09:16:42 glibc Apr 06 09:16:43 Well that's weird I thought it was installed by default Apr 06 09:16:44 :) Apr 06 09:16:46 I put it there one day Apr 06 09:16:54 locale -a should show it then. Apr 06 09:17:03 well, only en_US Apr 06 09:17:12 Cheap thing. Apr 06 09:17:25 plus it doesn't seem to be online Apr 06 09:19:17 glibc-localedata-en-us Apr 06 09:19:21 locale-base-en-us Apr 06 09:19:25 i think Apr 06 09:19:50 Ainulindale: what do we have in local.conf? Apr 06 09:19:50 # avoid multiple locales generation to speedup the build and save space Apr 06 09:19:51 #GLIBC_GENERATE_LOCALES = "en_US.UTF-8" Apr 06 09:19:55 this is the default Apr 06 09:20:13 Yep but on the buildhost it's been modified Apr 06 09:20:16 at least it was Apr 06 09:20:17 ahh, k Apr 06 09:20:24 let me check Apr 06 09:20:38 GLIBC_GENERATE_LOCALES = "en_US.UTF-8" Apr 06 09:20:45 So it SHOULD be generated. Apr 06 09:20:49 ok, should be fine then Apr 06 09:21:41 well locale -a doesn't list it properly it seems Apr 06 09:21:54 well I put LC_ALL="en_US.UTF-8" in an init script Apr 06 09:21:55 will see Apr 06 09:22:09 IMAGE_LINGUAS = "en-us de-de fr-fr pt-br ca-es zh-cn zh-tw bg-bg cs-cz da-dk nl-nl fi-fi hu-hu it-it ja-jp ko-kr nb-no pl-pl ru-ru sk-sk sl-si es-ar sv-se" Apr 06 09:22:15 thats at the top of my illume-image.bb Apr 06 09:22:18 when i generate it Apr 06 09:22:29 it makes sure to add intl lang support for those locales to the image Apr 06 09:22:29 it's useless Apr 06 09:22:36 (IIRC) Apr 06 09:23:22 or I seem to remember that someone told me it was Apr 06 09:23:34 root@overo:~# locale -a Apr 06 09:23:34 C Apr 06 09:23:34 POSIX Apr 06 09:23:35 ... Apr 06 09:23:42 de_DE Apr 06 09:23:42 de_DE.utf8 Apr 06 09:23:42 en_US Apr 06 09:23:42 en_US.utf8 Apr 06 09:23:43 ... Apr 06 09:23:44 :) Apr 06 09:23:55 well raster anyway, I have en-us in my LINGUAS Apr 06 09:23:59 I should have utf8 Apr 06 09:24:00 I don't Apr 06 09:25:19 But was is weird, anyway Apr 06 09:25:26 I can input accents in vala-terminal Apr 06 09:25:35 Not in any kind of efl software Apr 06 09:25:48 vala-terminal is gtk Apr 06 09:25:51 Yeah I know Apr 06 09:26:02 TAsn: says all gtk apps work Apr 06 09:26:08 I know that too Apr 06 09:26:11 TAsn found that its becausde gtk does its own lookups Apr 06 09:26:11 k :) Apr 06 09:26:14 it doesnt use x Apr 06 09:26:26 I was under the impression that there were an UTF8 problem with e Apr 06 09:26:28 ot just has a translation table for all possible keysyms and modifier combos Apr 06 09:26:29 Am I mistaken? Apr 06 09:26:36 efle is using x's translation table (xlib) Apr 06 09:26:43 and thats not working unless locale is properly set up Apr 06 09:26:44 why do people chose to circumvent X and implement their own stuff ather than fixing X? Apr 06 09:26:56 utf8 problem is ONLY with the dictionary parser Apr 06 09:27:01 not elsewhere Apr 06 09:27:13 spaetz: gtk tries to work on non-X systems too? Apr 06 09:27:28 mmh Apr 06 09:28:08 raster: well I can't see why I don't have utf8 in my locales anyway Apr 06 09:31:43 Ok seems we lack libx11-locale & localedef Apr 06 09:33:09 Ainulindale: btw, you can see in xev output that without locale XLookupString doesn't return anything. Apr 06 09:34:05 hey, any shr admin here? shr uses uclibc, doesnt it? Apr 06 09:35:17 no Apr 06 09:35:42 no to the second question? shr doesnt use uclibc? Apr 06 09:35:56 yes for the admin, no for uclibc Apr 06 09:36:51 ahh ok thanks, then i will try glibc Apr 06 09:40:06 Hmpf, trying shr-utf8 package Apr 06 09:40:07 Generating locales... en_US.UTF-8...cannot map archive header: Invalid argument Apr 06 09:42:02 And in fact Apr 06 09:42:03 root@om-gta02 ~ $ localedef -i en_US -c -f UTF-8 en_US Apr 06 09:42:03 cannot map archive header: Invalid argument Apr 06 10:02:20 haha, someone wants desktop launchers for "xrandr -o [normal,left,right,top]" Apr 06 10:02:41 no way that I'd add 4 icons for screen rotating Apr 06 10:03:06 Well that may be done as an illume options/quicklaunch Apr 06 10:03:09 -s Apr 06 10:03:28 isn't it already present in illume settings? Apr 06 10:03:36 (just 4 clicks needed) Apr 06 10:03:40 especially as it's available from illume settings Apr 06 10:03:45 max_posedon: yep Apr 06 10:04:20 some point, I'll have to go through new trac tickets again Apr 06 10:06:46 I have big problem with gprs, it works nice and stable until I begin download smth, or "open" too many tcp connections. Then suddenly gsm and gprs totally stops working (no calls/no gprs/impossible do anything connected with gsm) until reboot, or frameworkd restart. Apr 06 10:06:52 Is it known bug? Apr 06 10:08:11 max_posedon: what muxer? Apr 06 10:09:00 shr-latest-default Apr 06 10:09:11 gsm710muxd I think Apr 06 10:09:37 max_posedon: but what's the version? Apr 06 10:10:21 it isn't new bug for me, it always was present fso-gsm0710muxd - 0.9.3.1+gitrabcbcd7cc532a8834906de3fc24c8f8fe7643cd4-r0 Apr 06 10:12:19 max_posedon: is that newer or older than abcbcd7cc532a8834906de3fc24c8f8fe7643cd4? ;) Apr 06 10:12:33 max_posedon: looks like identical version Apr 06 10:12:45 yes, identical Apr 06 10:13:03 max_posedon: it reliably breaks if you wget something big? Apr 06 10:14:06 I don't known *what exactly* breaks, but yes, bug repeatable for me 100% Apr 06 10:14:28 also, I using gsm beta-moko11 firmware Apr 06 10:15:07 version/link from trac.shr-project [wiki:Tweaks] Apr 06 10:16:16 max_posedon: what does syslog say? Apr 06 10:16:24 max_posedon: if ogsmd is log_level=DEBUG'ed? Apr 06 10:17:25 max_posedon: I'm trying to reproduce it. Downloading something big. How much time does it take until it breaks for you? Apr 06 10:17:38 ~200-300kb Apr 06 10:18:08 lindi-, wait for a 5min plz. rebooting phone... Apr 06 10:19:45 moinmoin Apr 06 10:20:40 PaulFertser: what's popular? Apr 06 10:25:25 lindi-, no any output Apr 06 10:26:11 and if I try call to neo provider says me "not avaible now" Apr 06 10:28:22 DocScrutinizer: you're popular. One reading Steve e-mails will think that you're the head of hardware engineering in OM. Apr 06 10:28:47 hehe Apr 06 10:28:59 I AM! ;) Apr 06 10:29:26 Ainulindale: ping Apr 06 10:29:35 raster: ping Apr 06 10:30:09 DocScrutinizer: do you by any chance know what was the idea of glamoectomy? Apr 06 10:31:21 huh? Apr 06 10:31:31 in "gta03"? Apr 06 10:31:55 PaulFertser: Just removing the glamo and rewiring everything afaik Apr 06 10:32:29 The problem was that we would be missing the SDIO port for wifi Apr 06 10:32:30 lindi-, I'll try update gsm firmware today at evening(in ~5hours), may be it will helps, if not I'll ask once more Apr 06 10:32:45 PaulFertser: please define "idea" and "glamoectomy" Apr 06 10:32:52 alphaone: i'm interested in exactly the proposed solution to that problem. Apr 06 10:33:29 which one? the glamo-prob or the ones introduced by removing it Apr 06 10:33:32 PaulFertser: Well, a board redesign would have been necessary. Apr 06 10:33:51 for gta02 or 03? Apr 06 10:33:57 DocScrutinizer: by removing. It looks like Werner spent about 1 month considering ways to remove glamo from gta02. Apr 06 10:34:10 I believe PaulFertser is talking about 02 Apr 06 10:34:10 ahhh this one. Apr 06 10:34:14 DocScrutinizer: but where to get a spare SD port. Apr 06 10:34:26 I wonder what he was going to do with that and why it failed. Apr 06 10:34:35 DocScrutinizer: boo! Apr 06 10:35:28 glamo is bad. by removing it we could get better video performance. all old news. we had to use SoC video IF then. Needs major PCB redesign. Never will happen Apr 06 10:35:42 raster: moin Apr 06 10:36:22 DocScrutinizer: bing Apr 06 10:36:23 PaulFertser: I think Werner hoped to attach WiFi via SDIO Apr 06 10:37:15 max_posedon: no output? Apr 06 10:37:50 lindi-, yes, I use (logread -f) Apr 06 10:38:07 DocScrutinizer: i understand that glamo is bad and why it is bad. I wonder where Werner hoped to attach uSD card. Apr 06 10:38:33 max_posedon: is is log_level set to DEBUG? Apr 06 10:38:52 lindi-: i just reproduced it. too 3.6MB of downloading Apr 06 10:39:07 budfive_: which url do I need to download? ;) Apr 06 10:39:15 yes, and I see MANY OUTPUT in frameworkd.log, but really *nothing* in logread -f after "if.up finished" Apr 06 10:39:16 * lindi- starts gprs Apr 06 10:39:31 lindi-: I suspect it doesn't matter. try http://secretsauce.net:5050/muzh.lq.flv Apr 06 10:39:38 PaulFertser: just awake and can't remeber. think it never worked out anyway Apr 06 10:39:53 budfive_: started wget -O /dev/null http://secretsauce.net:5050/muzh.lq.flv Apr 06 10:40:10 lindi-: hey, that was my cmd verbatim. :) Apr 06 10:40:24 DocScrutinizer: i just can't imagine an immediate solution to that problem and from the e-mail it looks like it was almost real and Werner almost got there (if not for silicon bugs). Apr 06 10:40:32 sure, i just copypasted it from your term.. er, came up with the same command Apr 06 10:40:34 lindi-: oof. it's really dead. no contacts. mickeyterm hangs and segfaults on ctrl-c Apr 06 10:40:55 budfive_: that's typical #348 then Apr 06 10:41:05 http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/348 provide a way to debug framework when it goes to a state where it does not respond to dbus Apr 06 10:41:05 nah, nobody is going to build that Apr 06 10:41:23 budfive_: and it's a shame mickeyterm segfaults in response Apr 06 10:41:38 budfive_: 500k downloaded Apr 06 10:41:57 PaulFertser: There were different SD multiplier chips considered but iirc they all added uncertainty about WiFi as well as SD card performance so that was dropped.. Apr 06 10:41:58 lindi-: mickeyterm fails with org.freesmartphone.GSM.MUX.NoChannel (if i wait a bit) Apr 06 10:42:26 budfive_: but that's natural, there are no channels left (calypso only does four) Apr 06 10:42:40 budfive_: misc, unsol, call, gprs -- all four are in use Apr 06 10:43:03 lindi-: oh, so mickeyterm shouldn't work at all if gprs in on? Apr 06 10:43:12 budfive_: 1M downloaded Apr 06 10:43:14 alphaone: so, the only reason we have glamo is that nobody could find a good SD multiplier chip? That's sad. Apr 06 10:43:20 budfive_, so you reproduced my bug? nice.. at least I'm not alone Apr 06 10:43:31 max_posedon: i guess that's nice. :) Apr 06 10:43:36 PaulFertser: No Apr 06 10:43:45 budfive_: possibly, i use DebugCommand Apr 06 10:43:53 That was one of the technical problems I remember. Apr 06 10:44:03 budfive_: http://iki.fi/lindi/openmoko/gsm-debug Apr 06 10:44:21 lindi-: should i do this again with DEBUG from FSO? Apr 06 10:44:23 There may be more. You'd need to ask werner.. Apr 06 10:44:29 budfive_: yep Apr 06 10:44:31 lindi-: 404 Apr 06 10:44:48 budfive_: yes uploading over gprs is slow now for some reason ;-) Apr 06 10:44:48 alphaone: from Werner's e-mail it looks like it (de-glamoization) almost happened. I wonder what else was wrong. Thanks for the info, i'll ask Werner for details :) Apr 06 10:45:38 after de-glamoization neo IS eten X500. only GSM modems are different) Apr 06 10:46:02 max_posedon: eten X500? Apr 06 10:46:22 if I'm not mistaken, yes Apr 06 10:46:26 budfive_: 2M downloaded Apr 06 10:46:30 max_posedon: same wifi? Apr 06 10:47:02 hm... ok-ok, not IS), but *very* similar) Apr 06 10:47:09 lindi-: died for me after 3.6MB. GPRS is so slow it makes me want to cry Apr 06 10:47:38 one my friend trying port fso/shr to it Apr 06 10:47:53 PaulFertser: it *never* will happen ;) except for werner building it himself and financing it Apr 06 10:48:02 and only difference he notice (and problem) is gsm modem. Apr 06 10:49:11 DocScrutinizer: i understand that it won't happen :) I say it could have happened. Apr 06 10:50:16 it could... if we planned for that starting with a2. or *for* a22 Apr 06 10:51:31 err this was another b-rev then, so b1 no matter ;) Apr 06 10:52:38 DocScrutinizer: pong Apr 06 10:52:48 spaetz: solved the issue by installing two packages. Apr 06 10:53:03 did you talk to raster, Ainulindale ? Apr 06 10:53:16 what for? Apr 06 10:53:39 so obviously not yet ;) Apr 06 10:56:56 which packages? and is it in the OM wiki already? :-) Apr 06 10:58:33 Nope, because I didn't confirm yet Apr 06 10:58:38 spaetz: could you try that out for me? Apr 06 10:58:48 sure, let me know which packages Apr 06 10:58:57 and how I should test utf8 entry Apr 06 10:59:07 spaetz: opkg install libx11-locale localedef Apr 06 10:59:12 never tried any accented letters so far Apr 06 10:59:13 spaetz: /etc/init.d/xserver-nodm restart Apr 06 10:59:18 then change keyboard to numbers Apr 06 10:59:26 installing Apr 06 10:59:55 if it works it should go into OM wiki and also the SHR tweaks section Apr 06 11:00:00 no Apr 06 11:00:06 If it works it should go in the image Apr 06 11:01:17 hehe, I don't want internationalization to bloat my moko Apr 06 11:01:31 but yes, using utf8 by default does make a lot of sense Apr 06 11:01:31 It's the proper support of UTF8 Apr 06 11:01:34 It should be in the image Apr 06 11:01:44 If you don't want it, then build your own image Apr 06 11:01:50 Plus the packages aren't heavy Apr 06 11:01:57 We can't deliver half an image Apr 06 11:02:03 Either we support UTF8 properly or we don't Apr 06 11:02:12 UTF8 does make sense Apr 06 11:02:14 * spaetz concurs Apr 06 11:02:43 ok, selected numbers term. typed a few accent grave, tegu etc Apr 06 11:02:51 is displayed fine in terminal Apr 06 11:02:58 somewhere else where I should test? Apr 06 11:03:01 terminal is meaningless Apr 06 11:03:03 test in messages Apr 06 11:03:05 new message Apr 06 11:03:44 locale is set to en_US.UTF-8 now Apr 06 11:03:51 was just "C" before, I think Apr 06 11:04:00 lindi-: ok. i got it to die again. DEBUG log at http://secretsauce.net:5050/gsm.broken.log Apr 06 11:04:08 alphaone: hi, do you know when mickey will reappear ? Apr 06 11:04:18 damn, I want phone apps to be display first, I never find that msg app Apr 06 11:04:51 accents display fine in the message app Apr 06 11:05:11 fix confirmed Apr 06 11:05:19 Ok then I'll commit it to the image. Apr 06 11:05:22 agree that it should go in both images Apr 06 11:05:27 even minimal Apr 06 11:05:27 mirko-paroli: I guess as soon as he wakes up Apr 06 11:05:41 alphaone: ah k, thought he took off for a couple of days :) Apr 06 11:05:48 plus I will add it as an item to the draft release notes Apr 06 11:06:03 mirko: Ah, wait. Not sure where he is right now Apr 06 11:06:22 hehe Apr 06 11:06:26 budfive_: what does "mdbus -s org.freesmartphone.frameworkd /org/freesmartphone/Framework org.freesmartphone.Framework.GetVersion" print? Apr 06 11:06:36 I just know he's still commiting stoff Apr 06 11:06:40 stuff even Apr 06 11:06:45 ;) Apr 06 11:06:56 lindi-: 0.8.5.1+gitr1250+567f3454e19fac756a03ba58a7a3c5e909519780 Apr 06 11:06:59 k, I'll just ping him whenever, tought you might have details Apr 06 11:07:03 this is latest shr-unstable Apr 06 11:07:07 can you not reproduce? Apr 06 11:07:08 budfive_: ah, so it is responding to dbus after all Apr 06 11:07:09 thx alphaone Apr 06 11:07:20 budfive_: or did you restart it? Apr 06 11:07:49 lindi-: no. it's responding to dbus. the modem's hosed, though. the log contains this: Apr 06 11:07:51 lindi-: last communication with modem was 463 seconds ago. Sending EOF to wakeup) Apr 06 11:08:11 add this to draft release notes: the phone locale now includes UTf-8 by default which will make accented characters (UTF-8) work in the illume keyboard and other places (such as the SMS message editor) Apr 06 11:08:16 budfive_: is gsm0710muxd alive, idling? Apr 06 11:08:17 edded Apr 06 11:08:29 mmh s/includes/supports/ Apr 06 11:09:18 lindi-: yeah, it's fine. ps says "S" Apr 06 11:10:32 lindi-: strace says it's periodically waking up to get the local time and to poll some descriptors (which have no data waiting) Apr 06 11:11:21 lindi- can you not reproduce this? I'm in an area of poor reception, and the phone loses registration and has to reconnect periodically. Maybe this has something to do with it. Apr 06 11:14:14 budfive_: i can not reproduce this sorry Apr 06 11:14:25 budfive_: 10M downloaded Apr 06 11:14:42 lindi-, what firmware gsm you use? budfive_ and you? Apr 06 11:15:09 max_posedon: http://iki.fi/lindi/openmoko/status-reports/1238932175 has all the info Apr 06 11:15:12 max_posedon: i'm using the latest. 11 Apr 06 11:15:14 max_posedon: it's moko11beta Apr 06 11:15:29 hm... i use moko11beta too. Apr 06 11:16:44 Done. Apr 06 11:16:52 spaetz: that's wrong Apr 06 11:16:58 spaetz: the real problem was the lack of proper handling Apr 06 11:16:59 SHR: 03ainulindale 07shr-overlay * r020cbda1188a 10/openembedded/packages/tasks/task-shr-minimal.bb: task-shr-minimal-x: Fixed the UTF8 input issue on E software caused by the lack of localedef/libx11-locale. Apr 06 11:17:02 it already included the right stuff Apr 06 11:17:22 it's actually noe "includes support for UTF-8" Apr 06 11:17:30 which should be about right Apr 06 11:17:33 lindi-: do you think the issue is in the muxer? I can do a debug build and gdb into it. If you want ssh access into the moko, i can do that too Apr 06 11:17:41 lindi-: it's in that dead state right now Apr 06 11:17:46 spaetz: UTF-8 was already there Apr 06 11:17:57 As you were able to see everything Apr 06 11:18:01 Just not input it using e Apr 06 11:18:08 I know, but if it didn't work, then the supprt for it was not there :) Apr 06 11:18:17 it's end user release notes Apr 06 11:18:30 but feel free to improve wording Apr 06 11:18:51 UTF8 was readable Apr 06 11:18:55 And writable Apr 06 11:18:56 But on E Apr 06 11:19:06 Just making sure you got what I was explaining Apr 06 11:19:11 I don't care about the phrasing :-) Apr 06 11:19:12 I got it Apr 06 11:20:52 * spaetz considers purging everything from /usr/share/X11/locale/ that doesn't contain UTF-8 Apr 06 11:21:27 budfive_: hmm Apr 06 11:21:49 budfive_: strace of the muxer might show something, can you put that online too? Apr 06 11:21:49 spaetz: Well, that has to be discussed Apr 06 11:21:57 2.3M/usr/share/X11/locale Apr 06 11:22:05 That's normal Apr 06 11:22:16 not the world, but noticable Apr 06 11:22:32 Mostly codepages Apr 06 11:22:54 I'd like to keep codepages and ISO things there Apr 06 11:23:05 One thing I don't know is why I have 508.0K /usr/share/X11/locale/pt_BR.UTF-8 Apr 06 11:23:19 yep, I don't care about it on my sd card which is big enough Apr 06 11:23:35 I'll probably purge it from my NAND installation when it's on there Apr 06 11:25:14 lindi-: http://secretsauce.net:5050/gsm.broken.strace Apr 06 11:32:25 Regenerating an image. Apr 06 11:34:02 budfive_: ls -l /proc/`pidof gsm0710muxd/fd ? Apr 06 11:35:04 lindi-: http://secretsauce.net:5050/gsm.broken.fds Apr 06 11:37:10 budfive_: ok so it is polling for SAC0 but never reading anything from there? Apr 06 11:37:40 budfive_: cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/neo1973-pm-gsm.0/flowcontrolled? Apr 06 11:38:38 lindi-: sorry, i rebooted and am running another experiment. i'll give you that when it dies next (5-10 minutes probably) Apr 06 11:38:59 lindi-: i want to see if it dies at the same time as it loses registration and reconnects. Apr 06 11:40:44 budfive_: would be interesting to have complete strace of gsm0710muxd from startup Apr 06 11:40:57 budfive_: strace -tt -s4096 -f Apr 06 11:41:24 budfive_: you might want to replace /usr/bin/gsm0710muxd with a wrapper script that does strace ... gsm0710muxd.real Apr 06 11:41:38 lindi-: right. i have to restart framework, yes? Apr 06 11:41:39 hi all, anyone know the link to a working paroli image... am getting WSOD or hangs-while-booting problems in the April 04 image Apr 06 11:41:45 budfive_: yeah Apr 06 11:42:04 budfive_: and you want to log to ramdisk Apr 06 11:42:24 lindi-: ok. i'll set up the script, and let this experiment finish Apr 06 11:43:11 lindi-: hmmm. this log is going to contain a ton of data since the strace has write() commands that contain the actual data being downloaded by wget Apr 06 11:43:30 budfive_: just in case i'm not here to respond to your questions: it'd be interesting to know if gsm0710muxd can read from SAC0 if you restart gsm chip (via power_on) file Apr 06 11:43:37 lindi-: can strace produce lines of 4096 for everything except write() ? Apr 06 11:43:40 budfive_: yes the log will be large Apr 06 11:44:17 lindi-: ok. i'll do that next time it dies also Apr 06 11:44:21 budfive_: i'm afraid not. download something easily compressable and pipe to gzip? Apr 06 11:44:52 lindi-: ok. i'll figure it out. give it a few minutes for it to die again Apr 06 11:45:13 Sup3rkiddo: I use april 4th myself Apr 06 11:46:25 mirko-paroli, oh..... I got some couldn't find regulator thingy and seems to hang for 10-15 minutes without any visual cues.. Apr 06 11:46:31 * Sup3rkiddo tries once again Apr 06 11:47:02 Sup3rkiddo: regulator ... ehm ... got the error msg somewhere? Apr 06 11:47:19 mirko-paroli, checking, please hang on Apr 06 11:47:26 Sup3rkiddo: k, thx Apr 06 11:47:47 budfive_: 21M downloaded Apr 06 11:49:07 mirko-paroli, regulator: unable to get requested regulator: SD_3v3 Apr 06 11:49:14 lindi-: yeah, don't know what to tell you. I've seen it die twice so far, at 3.6 and 1.5. Also, I've seen this before but never tried chasing it Apr 06 11:49:35 Sup3rkiddo: oh ... is that before X or already in paroli ? Apr 06 11:49:36 mirko-paroli, and the angstrom logo with the login prompt appears, after which the screen goes black Apr 06 11:49:40 budfive_: well, you are lucky to be able to reproduce it so easily Apr 06 11:49:41 ah k Apr 06 11:49:45 mirko-paroli, before X Apr 06 11:50:28 lindi-: you're the second person to comment on how fortunate I am to have my gsm modem die easily :) Apr 06 11:50:45 mirko-paroli, right now, I am staring at a blank screen.. as if the device has gone to suspend, cannot bring it back.. getting WSOD Apr 06 11:50:47 Sup3rkiddo: which kernel do you use ? Apr 06 11:51:40 budfive_: hey, wget stopped at 22,259,741 Apr 06 11:51:55 budfive_: hmm, it's continuing now Apr 06 11:52:42 mirko-paroli, http://downloads.openmoko.org/distro/unstable/NeoFreerunner/uImage-2.6.28-stable+gitr0+f19f259d3c1afde8eae53983fd19f61831927413-r2-om-gta02.bin Apr 06 11:52:49 and my bad it was from April 5 Apr 06 11:53:48 Sup3rkiddo: hmm ... there should not have been a major change since the 4th Apr 06 11:54:30 mirko-paroli, and yeah, I flashed it twice Apr 06 11:54:35 Sup3rkiddo: can you ssh into the phone and check if paroli is running, the black screen after the angstrom logo is part of the deal Apr 06 11:54:41 hello guys Apr 06 11:54:53 rtl still not supported in enlightment ? \ Apr 06 11:55:02 mirko-paroli, yeah.. doing it Apr 06 11:55:08 k, thx Apr 06 11:55:12 gfather: not that i'd know of Apr 06 11:55:19 spaetz :( Apr 06 11:55:27 mirko-paroli, getting a SIOCSIFADDR Apr 06 11:55:45 lol.. sorry Apr 06 11:55:52 didnt connect it to my laptopn Apr 06 11:55:53 oops Apr 06 11:56:01 hehe, i know the feeling :) Apr 06 11:56:02 any one would like to help implementing it ? Apr 06 11:56:39 mirko-paroli, yeah was able to ssh, so where do i look for the logs now? Apr 06 11:56:50 /var/logs/paroli.log Apr 06 11:57:35 lindi-: so far it's not dying again, but also, the signal quality is good enough such that it's not going away right now Apr 06 12:00:05 mirko-paroli, rm'ing it so I might have fresh logs Apr 06 12:00:18 k Apr 06 12:07:24 mirko-paroli, here you go http://dpaste.com/24829/ Apr 06 12:07:33 Sup3rkiddo: thx Apr 06 12:07:36 I'll chekc Apr 06 12:10:00 Sup3rkiddo: hmm ... that doesn't say that much ... Apr 06 12:10:09 I am gonna flash in around 3 and a half hours Apr 06 12:10:13 today's image Apr 06 12:10:29 if you wanna test an image till then I recommend april 4th Apr 06 12:10:37 mirko-paroli, i know.... okie dokie.. thanks Apr 06 12:10:41 with the corresponding kernel, although that should still be the same Apr 06 12:10:46 sorry for the hick-up Apr 06 12:10:52 lindi-: ok. it died again. Apr 06 12:10:55 seems I broke something without noticing Apr 06 12:10:55 lindi-: /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/neo1973-pm-gsm.0/flowcontrolled is 0 Apr 06 12:11:00 budfive_: good, good Apr 06 12:11:10 budfive_: can you now wait for a while Apr 06 12:11:15 budfive_: and then restart the gsm chip Apr 06 12:11:16 and thx for letting me know Apr 06 12:11:21 lindi-: sure Apr 06 12:11:29 lindi-: via the sysfs node, right? Apr 06 12:11:33 budfive_: yep Apr 06 12:11:39 budfive_: echo 0 > /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/neo1973-pm-gsm.0/power_on Apr 06 12:11:43 budfive_: echo 1 > /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/neo1973-pm-gsm.0/power_on Apr 06 12:12:14 budfive_: echo 1 > /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-0/0-0073/neo1973-pm-gsm.0/reset is what i use Apr 06 12:12:32 lindi-: ok. what should i look for after i cycle the modem? Apr 06 12:12:58 budfive_: it should print "interpreter ready" and gsm0710muxd strace should see that Apr 06 12:13:10 print to ttySAC0 Apr 06 12:13:36 lindi-: oh. i wasn't stracing yet. was going to do that on the next cycle. sorry Apr 06 12:13:42 lindi-: the fso DEBUG log says nothing Apr 06 12:13:59 budfive_: you can attach strace to the running process too? Apr 06 12:14:14 mirko-paroli, i can use the April 5 uImage.. right?since http://downloads.openmoko.org/distro/unstable/daily/om-gta02/20090404/ doesnt have the uImage Apr 06 12:14:17 lindi-: yeah, i know. just didn't do it ;) Apr 06 12:14:25 budfive_: ok but now you could Apr 06 12:14:37 budfive_: just to see if reset of gsm modem causes anything visible there Apr 06 12:14:59 lindi-: ok. the strace looks the same as before Apr 06 12:15:09 lindi-: i'll cycle the modem again while it's tracing Apr 06 12:15:14 budfive_: ok Apr 06 12:15:33 Sup3rkiddo: should work Apr 06 12:15:44 mirko-paroli, right Apr 06 12:16:04 lindi-: yes. read 0 when i turned it off. and read "interpreter ready" when i turned it back on Apr 06 12:17:24 budfive_: ok so kernel is not messing up with serial port settings or anything Apr 06 12:18:06 budfive_: basically calypso just stops responding then Apr 06 12:18:48 lindi-: ok. the registration went in and out several times during that whole cycle and it was ok most of the time. Apr 06 12:19:21 lindi-: it got the last bit of data, then 20 seconds later calypso said that registration was gone Apr 06 12:19:45 budfive_: complete strace of everything gsm0710muxd does from power_on=1 could tell us more Apr 06 12:20:08 lindi- did you hear anything about rtl support ? Apr 06 12:20:20 gfather: i'm not using e17 Apr 06 12:20:30 lindi-: it reregistered and died later, never getting more data. registration probably is not the culprit then. I'm doing another cycle with the strace Apr 06 12:20:37 gfather: the non-GUI things need work Apr 06 12:20:49 lindi- what are you using ? Apr 06 12:22:05 gfather: gtk, qt, xlib directly Apr 06 12:22:43 i see Apr 06 12:23:41 hi Apr 06 12:24:50 hello Apr 06 12:25:33 budfive_: i run http://iki.fi/lindi/openmoko/gsm-watchdog that asks calypso a question every minute which you might want to run Apr 06 12:25:47 i am missing the blutooth hcidevice on shr using bluez4 ( dbus-interface). disappeard the device with bluez4 ? Apr 06 12:25:50 budfive_: just comment out the part where it tries to kill gsm Apr 06 12:29:34 budfive_: i'm going to catch a bus now but i'll keep the gprs running Apr 06 12:30:06 lindi-: ok. thanks. Apr 06 12:31:35 PaulFertser: why don't you post your question. then i'll explain later today. Apr 06 12:36:50 Howdy ya'll :p Apr 06 12:41:58 lindi-: done. it died again (after only 400k), and i hav ethe mux log Apr 06 12:43:04 lindi-: http://secretsauce.net:5050/mux.log Apr 06 12:56:24 DAVE! Apr 06 13:01:36 budfive_: 40M and counting :) Apr 06 13:01:44 lindi-: did you look at that log? Apr 06 13:01:53 budfive_: looking now Apr 06 13:02:07 lindi-: it didn't speak to me, but i'm not very familiar with the muxer Apr 06 13:02:11 budfive_: suspended since i want to apt-get install putty :) Apr 06 13:02:13 mickey|zzZZzz: morning, this is your wakeup call Apr 06 13:02:15 currently the eflvala comaand queue is just a string. Can we add a void* data pointer? Apr 06 13:02:20 so I can pass objects with a command? Apr 06 13:02:23 so I can pass objects with a command? Apr 06 13:02:36 so I can pass objects with commands? Apr 06 13:02:41 lindi-: the calypso is sitting in the dead state right now, btw Apr 06 13:02:47 oops Apr 06 13:02:50 mispasted Apr 06 13:02:59 budfive_: cool Apr 06 13:03:05 budfive_: can you gpio J6=0? Apr 06 13:03:24 budfive_: and then alsactl -f stereoout.state restore and tell me if you can hear anything Apr 06 13:04:48 lindi-: ok. hold on Apr 06 13:05:29 budfive_: 1551 05:40:52.313711 read(6, "AT+CPBS=\"SM\";+CPBR=1,250\r\n", 4096) = 26 Apr 06 13:05:41 budfive_: any idea why you are asking for the phonebook info? Apr 06 13:05:45 lindi-: that was my test to see if it was really dead Apr 06 13:05:53 lindi-: i did that Apr 06 13:06:18 budfive_: ok Apr 06 13:06:27 budfive_: and it was dead Apr 06 13:06:37 lindi-: yes Apr 06 13:06:42 where is stereoout.state ? Apr 06 13:07:54 budfive_: /usr/share/openmoko/scenarios in some distros Apr 06 13:08:08 budfive_: the gsm modem send debug serial data to headset when J6=0 Apr 06 13:08:19 budfive_: if you can hear this data then calypso is not totally dead Apr 06 13:08:28 lindi-: no. i hear nothing Apr 06 13:08:42 lindi-: but headset, you say? Apr 06 13:08:57 lindi-: i have nothing plugged into my headset. should i? Apr 06 13:09:02 budfive_: i can hear it from normal speakers too Apr 06 13:09:15 lindi-: it's silent Apr 06 13:09:35 budfive_: hmm, i'll verify if i can hear it when i get to a more quiet place Apr 06 13:10:11 lindi-: i have a headset that i've never used. taking it out of the packaging for the first time :) Apr 06 13:10:33 * spaetz thinks he lost headset by now Apr 06 13:10:46 lindi-: headset silent too Apr 06 13:10:55 budfive_: beware, the headset can be really loud :) Apr 06 13:11:22 lindi-: thanks. it's silent. could be broken. i've no idea Apr 06 13:11:37 i'll verify i can hear it... Apr 06 13:12:01 budfive_: yep, it's clearly hearable here Apr 06 13:12:05 budfive_: did you gpio J6=0? Apr 06 13:12:20 lindi-: yes. can i query it to make sure? Apr 06 13:12:28 budfive_: sure, just gpio without arguments Apr 06 13:12:49 budfive_: with stereoout.state i can hear quite clear sounds when calypso writes debug data Apr 06 13:13:05 lindi-: j6 is ">0" Apr 06 13:13:07 and i am not transmitting anything although gprs is on Apr 06 13:13:10 budfive_: yep, look sok Apr 06 13:13:47 lindi-: next time i reboot, i'll try it again to make sure i hear something normally Apr 06 13:14:42 budfive_: good Apr 06 13:15:04 lindi-: any more tests? what do you want me to do? Apr 06 13:15:21 budfive_: i'm sorry i can't think of anything else :/ Apr 06 13:15:57 lindi-: great Apr 06 13:16:32 budfive_: but save the full strace of muxer Apr 06 13:16:38 you can use it in a bug report Apr 06 13:18:15 lindi-: yes. thanks Apr 06 13:19:37 budfive_: which gsm-fw version? Apr 06 13:20:11 lindi-: i just cycled the calypso with pwron, and now i hear the clicking in the headset (but not from the speaker) Apr 06 13:20:17 DocScrutinizer: 11 Apr 06 13:20:26 DocScrutinizer: time for 12? Apr 06 13:20:30 budfive_: frameworkd might have switched alsa state when you plugged the headset? Apr 06 13:20:32 nope Apr 06 13:20:42 budfive_: clicking is GSM-DL Apr 06 13:21:01 there's sth odd when you hear that Apr 06 13:21:22 DocScrutinizer: well we gpio J6=0'd Apr 06 13:21:28 anyway have to run now to meet someone at railway station Apr 06 13:21:32 heh? ok. when it died, i got no sound out of it at all. headset or not Apr 06 13:21:32 what for??? Apr 06 13:21:42 DocScrutinizer: to figure out if calypso is alive or dead Apr 06 13:21:54 lol, great idea Apr 06 13:21:56 cycling, made it click with j6=0 Apr 06 13:22:04 well, it's alive it seems ;-) Apr 06 13:22:08 conclusion: it was dead Apr 06 13:22:18 great, now we can make an audio watchdog! Apr 06 13:22:28 outch Apr 06 13:22:44 fairly repeatable too. I'm told i'm lucky :) Apr 06 13:22:57 btw - dead==switched-off maybe Apr 06 13:23:11 DocScrutinizer: that should be measurable in power consumption? Apr 06 13:23:12 DocScrutinizer: i guess. you tell me. I never turned it off Apr 06 13:23:33 budfive_: can you measure power consumption (the current_now file in /sys)? Apr 06 13:23:51 lindi-: well, i cycled it so i'd have to make it die again Apr 06 13:24:30 lindi-: but what would that tell you, anyway? even if the current is low, so what? if framework or something turned it off, wouldn't that show up in a log somewhere? Apr 06 13:24:36 you need to wait for at least 4 minutes and take samples say every 10 seconds. display off, no usb charging, etc. Apr 06 13:25:04 budfive_: gsm chip does not consume that much but if you sample for 4 minutes and then echo 0 > power_on you should see it drop Apr 06 13:25:21 budfive_: if it does not drop then we know that gsm chip has for some reason really lost power Apr 06 13:25:59 budfive_: and you need a shell script for this. using the touchscreen, usb or wlan will influence measurements Apr 06 13:26:03 lindi-: ok, sure. let me do that Apr 06 13:26:10 lindi-: yeah, i'm on top of it Apr 06 13:26:14 give me 10 minutes Apr 06 13:30:58 budfive_: and indeed, you should hear that debug print even when gsm is relatively idle Apr 06 13:31:29 lindi-: yes, after i cycled the calypso, i immediately heard the clicking Apr 06 13:32:08 lindi-: i'm getting it to crash again, and gathering power consumption data Apr 06 13:32:27 be warned, it may kill your headset speakers Apr 06 13:32:30 lindi-: i still don't understand what you can't reproduce it Apr 06 13:32:40 DocScrutinizer: yep. it's pretty loud. Apr 06 13:32:58 budfive_: for i in `seq 1 20`; do echo `date` `cat current_now; sleep 10; done; echo 0 > power_on; for i in `seq 1 20`; do echo `date` `cat current_now; sleep 10; done Apr 06 13:33:11 one ` missing ;)) Apr 06 13:33:24 even if you hear nothing: it's 3v3 dc Apr 06 13:33:35 DocScrutinizer: can it kill the main speakers? Apr 06 13:33:59 what's "main speakers"?? Apr 06 13:34:12 DocScrutinizer: the ones near the "neo" text :) Apr 06 13:34:22 huh? Apr 06 13:34:34 ah it's only one? Apr 06 13:35:03 Ainulindale, ping? Apr 06 13:35:04 ah the spkr. no it's noz connected to this one, see schem Apr 06 13:35:17 bye Apr 06 13:35:25 DocScrutinizer: but i can hear the debug clicks from the speakers Apr 06 13:35:28 DocScrutinizer: without headset Apr 06 13:35:36 ack Apr 06 13:35:39 (i don't even have a headset!) Apr 06 13:35:42 now it booted up to being dead Apr 06 13:35:46 root_at: pong Apr 06 13:35:48 i never got to do anything Apr 06 13:36:08 Ainulindale, can you tell me how you compiled glibc for arm? i am getting "the arm is not supported" Apr 06 13:36:40 I used OE. Apr 06 13:36:44 budfive_: ? Apr 06 13:36:57 lindi-: yeees? Apr 06 13:37:19 Ainulindale, i always forget that..thanks Apr 06 13:37:31 budfive_: i did not understand your last line :) Apr 06 13:37:34 lindi-: vtrying the clicking test again to see if it is really dead. next time I'l actually depower during reboot Apr 06 13:37:49 lindi-: i just reboot to try again. the phone registered to the network and then died Apr 06 13:37:54 lindi-: without gprs or anything Apr 06 13:38:34 budfive_: reboot whole phone? Apr 06 13:38:46 lindi-: yep Apr 06 13:38:52 that shouldn't be needed Apr 06 13:38:54 Could someone try the latest unstable shr-lite-image for GTA02? Apr 06 13:38:56 lindi-: tat's reverse feed. you shouldn't have amp-spk enabled anyway Apr 06 13:39:26 DocScrutinizer: but stereoout.state has it? Apr 06 13:42:53 lindi-: yup. so if you run stereoout and gsm-dl you'll hear a little. expected behaviour for unexp state Apr 06 13:43:01 away Apr 06 13:44:11 fortunately it's a useful debugging aid :) Apr 06 13:48:57 wow, seamless switch from umts to prs when entering subway Apr 06 14:15:09 Hmpf, no more language on e. Apr 06 14:19:25 hmm newer kernel in repo:) Apr 06 14:20:05 Would any of you know what is the action for the quicklaunch in illume? Apr 06 14:20:07 Can't recall Apr 06 14:21:14 lindi-: i have power data Apr 06 14:23:04 budfive_: great Apr 06 14:23:13 lindi-: units of whatever current_now reports; GPRS active but not transmitting: 57k. GPRS active and transmitting: 300k. Dead: 80k. Power-cycled: 50k. Apr 06 14:23:21 budfive_: they are uA Apr 06 14:24:01 budfive_: ah, how about power_on=0 instead of fully cycling it? Apr 06 14:24:04 lindi-: so a GPRS download is current-heavy Apr 06 14:24:11 surely it is Apr 06 14:24:29 lindi-: hold on Apr 06 14:25:59 raster? Apr 06 14:28:37 ???? Apr 06 14:28:38 :) Apr 06 14:29:01 raster: Would you please tell me what I'm supposed to do to bind the quicklaunch to a key? Apr 06 14:29:10 I can't find what I'm supposed to use as a command Apr 06 14:30:11 ???? Apr 06 14:30:15 quicklaunch? Apr 06 14:30:15 lindi-: 49mA with power off Apr 06 14:30:31 lindi-: seems too high? Apr 06 14:30:33 Well raster at e startup it's asking which icons I want in "quicklaunch" Apr 06 14:30:36 I was wondering what this was :-) Apr 06 14:30:52 oooh Apr 06 14:30:57 in illume thats not visible Apr 06 14:30:58 thats ibar Apr 06 14:31:01 in desktop mode Apr 06 14:31:08 you dont see/use it in illume (currently) Apr 06 14:31:19 raster: And what is this thing bound to lock? Apr 06 14:31:31 I think it's the "show gadgets" thing Apr 06 14:31:32 it isnt bound to anything Apr 06 14:31:39 its a visiblke quick-laucnh set of icons Apr 06 14:31:45 it simply isnt used in illume Apr 06 14:31:47 I was wondering what was doing that Apr 06 14:31:56 ibar Apr 06 14:32:01 No, ok for that Apr 06 14:32:06 Just wondering what was doing show gadgets Apr 06 14:32:20 budfive_: sounds very possible Apr 06 14:32:35 budfive_: anyways the conclusion here is that the gsm chip has not lost powe Apr 06 14:32:40 budfive_: +r Apr 06 14:33:05 budfive_: i'm out of ideas now really, you should ask DocScrutinizer and PaulFertser, they probably know who you should ask next :) Apr 06 14:33:17 raster: because here it's blanking the screen Apr 06 14:33:24 lindi-: ok. thanks for the help Apr 06 14:33:32 ??? Apr 06 14:33:34 fellas, what you're messing around here with fsckng calypso?? Apr 06 14:33:40 raster: show/hide gadgets Apr 06 14:33:48 DocScrutinizer: joerg! my friend! Apr 06 14:33:48 oh that Apr 06 14:33:55 thats used with gadman Apr 06 14:34:02 gadman allows u to have gadgets on the desktop Apr 06 14:34:10 So basically it has no use? :-) Apr 06 14:34:16 oh wait Apr 06 14:34:27 or tyou are enabling ibar to show in the top shelf? Apr 06 14:34:29 you Apr 06 14:34:29 DocScrutinizer: So the calypso dies after downloading something for a few minutes Apr 06 14:34:52 raster: well I was just wondering if we could have some kind of quicklaunch screen Apr 06 14:34:53 DocScrutinizer: i can reproduce it reliably, but lindi- can not. Apr 06 14:34:57 bound to a button Apr 06 14:34:58 via gprs? Apr 06 14:35:03 DocScrutinizer: yep Apr 06 14:35:21 DocScrutinizer: to make it die, i boot, start up gprs, start a wget, then wait 10 minutes Apr 06 14:35:32 Ainulindale: ooh hmm no Apr 06 14:35:36 thats tyhe home screen anyway Apr 06 14:35:40 hmm, Apr 06 14:35:41 DocScrutinizer: when it's dead, the modem does not respond to AT commands and does not send anything Apr 06 14:35:42 u'd want to bind a b utton to "go home" Apr 06 14:35:44 Ok :-) Apr 06 14:35:52 DocScrutinizer: so the phone part is obviously dead as well Apr 06 14:35:55 raster: so "Openmoko Go Home", that's about right? Apr 06 14:36:04 and that isnt a bindable action because illume doesnt add it as an action Apr 06 14:36:08 if it did - it'd be bindable Apr 06 14:36:26 DocScrutinizer: I'm up-to-date with everything, i believe. SHR-unstable. moko11 2.6.29, etc Apr 06 14:36:49 budfive_: is it really? did you try give it a call? Apr 06 14:37:07 DocScrutinizer: i have logs of debug-enabled frameworkd.conf, and an strace of muxd from start to death Apr 06 14:37:22 DocScrutinizer: heh. i didn't try calling it. Apr 06 14:37:32 DocScrutinizer: it also failed the clicking test Apr 06 14:37:34 go ahead Apr 06 14:38:15 DocScrutinizer: ok... what do you expect to happen? Apr 06 14:38:22 budfive_: id U say frameworkd aka muxer is dieing Apr 06 14:38:26 ? Apr 06 14:38:40 DocScrutinizer: i don't think so Apr 06 14:38:58 gpio j6 is silent in that state until i cycle the calypso with power_on in sysfs Apr 06 14:39:18 so strace looks like calypso not answering anymore? Apr 06 14:39:41 DocScrutinizer: yes. also if you cycle the calypso, the strace of the muxer shows "interpreter ready" or whatever it sends Apr 06 14:39:53 DocScrutinizer: it really seems like the muxer is fine Apr 06 14:40:00 thats normal Apr 06 14:40:18 give it a call inbound Apr 06 14:40:22 DocScrutinizer: exactly. it seems like the muxer is working fine, no? Apr 06 14:40:32 see if it's still registered Apr 06 14:40:37 DocScrutinizer: not against calling it. just have to make it die again. need 10 minutes Apr 06 14:40:47 DocScrutinizer: can't see if it's registered. doesn't respond to AT Apr 06 14:41:23 np, in 10min I'm off the pavement and @home again ;) Apr 06 14:42:10 DocScrutinizer: also can't call it since i only have one phone, but I can SMS it from email Apr 06 14:42:24 if you can give it a call, it actually IS registered and responsive - at least OTA Apr 06 14:43:00 DocScrutinizer: oof. yes. i see what you're saying. Apr 06 14:43:11 DocScrutinizer: ok. let me kill it again Apr 06 14:44:51 DocScrutinizer: also, feel free to try it yourself. I didn't even find it first. Somebody complained about this earlier tonight and I tried reproducing it. With great success. Apr 06 14:44:53 budfive_: sms won't help whatsoever Apr 06 14:45:15 DocScrutinizer: yes. i understand what you mean. you want to know if it'll ring or go straight to voicemail. yes? Apr 06 14:45:20 DocScrutinizer: if calypso does not print any debug input doesn't that prove it is dead? Apr 06 14:45:29 s/input/output/ Apr 06 14:45:30 lindi- meant: DocScrutinizer: if calypso does not print any debug output doesn't that prove it is dead? Apr 06 14:46:57 lindi-: that prooves it oesnt print any... ;) Apr 06 14:46:58 budfive_, lindi- so, did you find anything interesting about this[gsm dead] bug? Apr 06 14:48:11 max_posedon: i am unable to reproduce it, i only gave budfive_ hints on what to test and report in the bug report Apr 06 14:48:44 DocScrutinizer: so what would be evidence of death? Apr 06 14:49:13 smoke Apr 06 14:49:20 a coredump of internal app-processor ;) Apr 06 14:49:51 basically we're not interested in "dead" we're investigating symptoms Apr 06 14:50:03 DocScrutinizer: i can give you the smoke, but you're on your own for the coredump :) Apr 06 14:50:20 lindi-, may you try reproduce it when you will go(move) somewhere? say when you will have little travel. Strange, it easy reprodused for me. Apr 06 14:50:32 btw, is it a way a *limit* gprs speed locally? Apr 06 14:50:38 max_posedon: i just travelled 10 km by bus and received 40M Apr 06 14:50:47 alphaone o/ Apr 06 14:50:55 Ainulindale: HEy Apr 06 14:51:01 it might be successfull workaround for me. Apr 06 14:51:19 alphaone: don't know if it's of any use to you but we fixed the UTF8 input issue on elm things Apr 06 14:51:30 Ainulindale: Cool Apr 06 14:51:39 Is it going upstream? Apr 06 14:51:41 symptoms means either firmware locked up totally, or it simply is off, or tty froze, or... Apr 06 14:51:48 Errr it's a distro thing Apr 06 14:51:58 We never installed libx11-locale & localedef Apr 06 14:52:02 Which are necessary Apr 06 14:52:34 aaaahh, big kbd, sitting instead walking (against sign-poles ;) Apr 06 14:52:52 better, muuuch better ;D Apr 06 14:53:31 DocScrutinizer: ok. it died. i'm calling it Apr 06 14:53:33 budfive_: SMS won't tell yu if it's responding to BTS requests Apr 06 14:53:54 if you got ringback tone, OTA is alive Apr 06 14:53:59 DocScrutinizer: the calling phone did not go to voicemain immediately Apr 06 14:54:00 otherwise not Apr 06 14:54:16 DocScrutinizer: the moko did not respond in any way, though Apr 06 14:54:21 DocScrutinizer: nothing in the logs Apr 06 14:54:40 sure, what should it do if it caound call to SoC?nt signal inb Apr 06 14:54:59 DocScrutinizer: heh? Apr 06 14:55:04 fsck synaptics pad! >:( Apr 06 14:55:22 sure, what should it do if it cnt signal inbaound call to SoC? Apr 06 14:56:02 DocScrutinizer: you tell me. is there anything it can do that we can detect? Apr 06 14:56:22 the question is, did it answer to the BTS. Did it send (and make your radio "bzzbzzbzz") and network giving far end a ringback tone Apr 06 14:57:44 DocScrutinizer: i just called it again, and it still seems to be registered. Calling it is a great idea. You actually can determine some things :) Apr 06 14:58:01 or did network tell far end "temporarily not available, call again later" Apr 06 14:58:20 when I call to my "dead" phone, provider says me "not availble, plz callback later" Apr 06 14:58:33 exactly Apr 06 14:59:21 DocScrutinizer: i don't think my local networks do that. It goes straight to voicemail if the callee isn't registered, or rings if it is Apr 06 15:00:09 so if it's still registered, odds are uart either in SoC or calypso borked, or sw is going nuts not servicing SoC uart anymore Apr 06 15:00:40 budfive_: so DOES it ring? Apr 06 15:00:51 budfive_: yes. it rings Apr 06 15:01:01 ringback that is. "tooot tooot" at far end Apr 06 15:01:07 ok Apr 06 15:01:10 DocScrutinizer: oh wait Apr 06 15:01:12 so, see above Apr 06 15:01:13 DocScrutinizer: no Apr 06 15:01:14 budfive_, you are joking I think Apr 06 15:01:21 DocScrutinizer: speaker is silent Apr 06 15:02:09 speaker???????? Apr 06 15:02:17 DocScrutinizer: the moko does NOT ring. The speaker i placed it on to detect gsm interference is silent too. The calling phone rings because the network thinks the moko is registered Apr 06 15:03:00 DocScrutinizer: sorry for the confusion Apr 06 15:03:02 it's doing this only if MT (neo) actually accepted the call Apr 06 15:04:18 if you're in a parking deck souterrain and someone is trying to call ya, there's no use in network "thinking" it can proceed the call. It actually has to *know* it can communicate with mobile Apr 06 15:05:21 DocScrutinizer: in either case, the phone is sitting here in the "dead" state. I can log in to it and do things. If you can think of anything useful to do, i can try it Apr 06 15:05:31 so if mobile is *answering* the INVITE / CHALLENGE whatever its called, you'll get ringback-tone. Otherwise "not available " Apr 06 15:05:54 check another distro Apr 06 15:06:40 investigate state of ttySAC0 Apr 06 15:07:14 check traces of the process that's actually holding the filehandle for ttySAC0 Apr 06 15:08:11 attach a protocol analyzer or a "keylogger" to the serial line between SoC and calypso. There's testpoints for that Apr 06 15:08:15 iirc Apr 06 15:09:17 compile a testkernel with lots of kprint inside uart-driver Apr 06 15:10:31 but first of all: scrutinize the code, then scrutinize the code, then scrutinize the code... Apr 06 15:10:46 DocScrutinizer: but if calypso does not print any debugging messages to headset port then there must be more than ttySAC0 problem? Apr 06 15:11:00 dunno Apr 06 15:11:44 there's no statement in the docs saying "calypso does not stop sending debug data during long gprs transmissions" Apr 06 15:12:14 to be honest here's no doc about debug data at all Apr 06 15:24:48 DocScrutinizer: I just tried calling a powered-down moko, and it turns out that the caller doesn't go directly to voicemail even if the moko is off. This isn't how i thought it worked, but there it is. Apr 06 15:25:12 straaaaange Apr 06 15:26:22 so maybe your calypso shut down due to overheating? (just wild guessing) Apr 06 15:27:01 DocScrutinizer: sure. why not? sounds as plausible as anything Apr 06 15:27:22 DocScrutinizer: have you tried it? I suspect I and max_posedon aren't the only ones Apr 06 15:27:51 you could try to set it up for gprs using fewer upstream-slots (don't ask me how ATM ;) Apr 06 15:28:02 no I didn't Apr 06 15:28:23 bergelin_, , try what? sorry I wasn't here all time, and didn't read all Apr 06 15:28:24 My main task always has been schem review Apr 06 15:28:57 max_posedon, did you highlight the wrong person? Apr 06 15:29:05 bergelin_, sorry, yes. Apr 06 15:29:12 alright, np Apr 06 15:29:19 budfive_, what I should try? Apr 06 15:30:16 ptitjes: by the way Apr 06 15:30:17 budfive_: is the time until freeze always about the same? Apr 06 15:30:22 you forgot your agenda at my place Apr 06 15:30:28 I was wondering whom it was Apr 06 15:30:38 Ainulindale: :) Apr 06 15:30:46 DocScrutinizer: nope. anywhere 2-20 minutes Apr 06 15:30:47 ptitjes: \o/ Apr 06 15:30:49 DocScrutinizer ? Apr 06 15:30:58 cheers Apr 06 15:31:02 just Apr 06 15:31:11 heh Apr 06 15:31:12 DocScrutinizer: lindi- apparently doesn't see it at all Apr 06 15:31:27 huh? Apr 06 15:31:38 err, nevermind Apr 06 15:32:01 might also be a problem of your particular provider Apr 06 15:32:13 budfive_, sorry once more, what I should try to fix [gsm dead] bug? Apr 06 15:32:22 my next step to debug would be to use a different network Apr 06 15:32:58 budfive_: 2..20min doesn't sound like termic problems Apr 06 15:33:51 DocScrutinizer: particular provider should not be able to kill calypso Apr 06 15:34:05 could be anything from MTU setting to fw-bug or hw-bug Apr 06 15:34:24 lindi-: you know for sure? Apr 06 15:34:38 max_posedon: i don't know how to fix it, but i've been talking to DocScrutinizer and lindi- about it. you can talk to them too. :) Apr 06 15:34:56 DocScrutinizer: how can i be sure? ;) Apr 06 15:35:16 lindi-: they could do some "DoS" "attack" killing the gsm-stack inside calypso Apr 06 15:36:24 DocScrutinizer, lindi- so, what we can do, for helping you find out problem? Apr 06 15:36:57 first find the diferences between kindi's setup and budfive_ 's Apr 06 15:37:01 or at least I want to know, is it possible limit gprs speed or not Apr 06 15:37:06 lindi-: 's even Apr 06 15:37:18 and mine) your know I have same problem as budfive_ ) Apr 06 15:38:20 max_posedon: sure, you may setup upstream and downstream slots in many different ways, which will result in different max thruput for GPRS Apr 06 15:38:49 can you say at least 1(or 2) Apr 06 15:38:55 max_posedon: oooooh. So it's a confirmed bug already Apr 06 15:39:21 also one my friend with same provider as I has same bug. Apr 06 15:39:56 I'd recommend talk to mickey about it Apr 06 15:40:04 mickey|zzZZzz: ping Apr 06 15:40:09 I just want limit speed, because gprs connection is rock stable if I use it only for irc. Apr 06 15:40:31 this sounds like MTU problem ;-) Apr 06 15:40:47 or uart fifo overflow Apr 06 15:42:07 anyway me needs dinner now Apr 06 15:42:09 bbl Apr 06 15:42:18 DocScrutinizer: thanks Apr 06 15:42:38 spaetz? Apr 06 15:42:38 np Apr 06 15:44:02 budfive_: you may try torture gprs with `ping` with various parameters for packetsize etc and see if you find a "killer bullet" Apr 06 15:45:27 DocScrutinizer: hm. not a bad idea. thanks Apr 06 15:46:33 git ls-remote git://git.openmoko.org/git/tichy.git Apr 06 15:46:33 fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly Apr 06 15:46:58 Cannot build fso-unstable, or anything else that builds the tip. Apr 06 15:47:13 Anyone here in charge of some of the Om infrastructure? Apr 06 15:47:28 Anyone here know what the heck a "tichy" is, or why we need it for FSO? Apr 06 15:47:30 mwester: tichy.git is gone Apr 06 15:47:36 remove the bb Apr 06 15:47:37 mwester: well it is not needed Apr 06 15:47:48 tichy moved to google Apr 06 15:48:05 I am trying to reach angus to get him to remove the recipe Apr 06 15:48:30 mirko-paroli: wasn't it at google before? Apr 06 15:48:40 onen: nope Apr 06 15:48:48 was at om its whole life Apr 06 15:48:51 until now Apr 06 15:48:55 mirko-paroli: my bad :-) Apr 06 15:49:35 budfive_: if max_posedon says it's rocksolid for him on IRC, I strongly suspect it's sth with max packet size or bandwith peaks Apr 06 15:49:58 mirko-paroli: maybe you can clarify things for me, om does not fund FSO anymore. But they still speaks of the schedule of distribution release for june, which is supposed to be based on FSO and paroli. Is om still supporting FSO and paroli? Apr 06 15:50:10 anyway Apr 06 15:50:12 * DocScrutinizer away Apr 06 15:50:36 onen: FSO MS5.5 is supposed to be what OM2009 will be based on Apr 06 15:50:45 that was supposed to be delivered by the end of march Apr 06 15:51:05 the rest was "planned" to be up to paroli and integrations Apr 06 15:51:18 so paroli is still partly funded and so is integrations Apr 06 15:53:11 mirko-paroli: do you have an estimation of how long will fso and paroli be funded by om? Apr 06 15:53:28 fso isn't anymore as of april afaik Apr 06 15:53:38 mirko-paroli: ok Apr 06 15:53:43 paroli ... not sure ... release is planned for june Apr 06 15:59:31 mirko-paroli: why do you say no more? didn't they say they are still going to keep going? Apr 06 15:59:49 johnsu01: the project lives on Apr 06 16:00:00 johnsu01: sadly not funded by OM though Apr 06 16:00:16 mirko-paroli: oh I see, I misunderstood what you said Apr 06 16:01:24 no worries Apr 06 16:05:01 and.. here it is! Apr 06 16:05:10 shall i unveil my creation? Apr 06 16:05:25 raster, where? Apr 06 16:05:29 :D Apr 06 16:05:37 http://www.rasterman.com/files/openphone-mk2.png Apr 06 16:06:05 raster: lovely :) Apr 06 16:06:43 Well Apr 06 16:06:58 It's not as "soap bar"-y as the freerunner Apr 06 16:06:59 raster, coool.. but it would have made a great april fool's prank :D... "Will be up for sale today" Apr 06 16:07:10 But it looks as some kind of candy bar Apr 06 16:07:37 raster: From where does the keyboard slit out? Apr 06 16:07:41 ;) Apr 06 16:08:10 Good question Apr 06 16:08:19 no kbd Apr 06 16:08:24 And where can we plug the open frying pan? Apr 06 16:08:51 :-P Apr 06 16:08:59 raster: I know. Just kidding :) Apr 06 16:09:32 stefan_schmidt: would you happen to know how I'm supposed to regenerate the locales using OE? Apr 06 16:09:36 i need to do details on the internals under the back cover next Apr 06 16:09:46 Ainulindale: oh, good question Apr 06 16:09:57 raster: Looks nice Apr 06 16:10:00 shiny :-) Apr 06 16:10:03 Ainulindale: bitbake -c rebuild glibc after you changed your local.conf? Apr 06 16:10:18 Where was the webshop again? Apr 06 16:10:18 Hmm, I tried that, didn't seem to work. Apr 06 16:10:20 Will retry. Apr 06 16:10:20 the screen front is curved/bubbley capacitive ts Apr 06 16:10:28 the back is matte black plastic Apr 06 16:10:44 crhome border arount he edge Apr 06 16:10:46 raster: Well will you ship an elephant ivory version? Apr 06 16:10:52 I like it when it looks expensive Apr 06 16:11:04 Ainulindale: no. but i will consider a whalebone one. Apr 06 16:11:04 And diamonds, please Apr 06 16:11:06 Ainulindale: hmm, ok. No idea then. Not doing locales here. Apr 06 16:11:07 raster: Okay, a curved front is unusual.. Apr 06 16:11:16 stefan_schmidt: well someone disabled the binary locales generation Apr 06 16:11:19 oh raster Apr 06 16:11:22 quick question Apr 06 16:11:22 alphaone: yup. i hope its actually doable Apr 06 16:11:23 :) Apr 06 16:11:26 simple use case Apr 06 16:11:28 heh Apr 06 16:11:34 I want to turn my phone upside down to reject calls Apr 06 16:11:40 how can I do that with a curved screen? Apr 06 16:11:51 but the curved front works well because the lcd is "on top0" of the pcb Apr 06 16:12:01 and thus it adds a bump Apr 06 16:12:04 like the gta01/02 Apr 06 16:12:04 Ainulindale: You'll know if it wobbles around :-) Apr 06 16:12:11 Ainulindale: it whips back and forth and the cal get rejected and dialed again. ;) Apr 06 16:12:12 the board above/below was below the lcd Apr 06 16:12:19 the curve just nocel "flows over" that Apr 06 16:12:59 Ainulindale: still works. it just wobbles too Apr 06 16:13:00 :) Apr 06 16:13:18 I don't like when it wobbles Apr 06 16:13:22 It reminds me of my sister Apr 06 16:13:26 Plus you will have one point that will be prone to scraching Apr 06 16:13:29 HAHAHHGAHAHAHAHA Apr 06 16:13:45 alphaone: no matter what.. you always have that.. Apr 06 16:13:52 everythign scratches sooner or later Apr 06 16:14:08 Since all the forces will be concentrated on one small area instead of over the whole... Apr 06 16:14:33 alphaone: But you'll be able to buy the raster++ magic phone bed support Apr 06 16:14:41 alphaone: makes for a nice business in buying replacements once peole have scretched it up :) Apr 06 16:14:43 Sure, but I'd expect that it would happen sooner rather than later if you curve the screen Apr 06 16:14:45 Which will be made out of marble, it'll mimic a roman bed Apr 06 16:14:50 And you'll be able to put your phone on top of it Apr 06 16:14:53 And it'll gently support it Apr 06 16:15:03 Problem is it'll weigh 3lbs Apr 06 16:15:05 raster: Hehe Apr 06 16:15:15 me - i just dont tend to put things face down on their screens as i know the surcae has bits of dirt/dust/whatever Apr 06 16:15:19 that will scratch Apr 06 16:15:36 but yes Apr 06 16:15:42 it'll likely happen sooner if curved Apr 06 16:16:05 though u understand there is actuall a liquid diamond coating you can get Apr 06 16:16:12 its actually just sprayed-ion Apr 06 16:16:27 and adds a hyper-hard clear surface on top of any surface its applied to Apr 06 16:16:37 i remember reading about it a few years back Apr 06 16:18:28 So we could sponsor the south african economy then Apr 06 16:18:32 And buy diamonds Apr 06 16:23:13 hahahahah Apr 06 16:25:06 But anyway, it looks good Apr 06 16:25:27 Although Apr 06 16:25:30 It lacks a mirror at the back Apr 06 16:25:35 the aim was to look good Apr 06 16:25:35 A flash for the camera Apr 06 16:25:40 hmm Apr 06 16:25:42 good point Apr 06 16:25:44 no flash Apr 06 16:26:03 DVI/HDMI is useless IMHO Apr 06 16:26:07 not sure about those dicky curved mirrors they use for self portraits Apr 06 16:26:14 i have always found them pretty abysmal Apr 06 16:26:14 or a gadget for overzealous graphical UI bastards like you Apr 06 16:26:30 Ainulindale: so dvi is useless for a laptop? Apr 06 16:26:32 USB hub is useless too I think Apr 06 16:26:32 :) Apr 06 16:26:42 raster: well, we're talking about a phone there Apr 06 16:27:03 And I'm just giving my opinion anyway :-) Apr 06 16:27:17 the idea is.. ti can be more than just a phone Apr 06 16:27:39 i am sure people said long ago "but why do i want my phone to have a calendar? it's just a pohne" Apr 06 16:27:46 Yep, I understand that Apr 06 16:27:50 I just think that's too much :-) Apr 06 16:27:53 or "why do i want ot to play games.. it's just a phone!" Apr 06 16:27:57 :) Apr 06 16:28:01 Games are for sissies anyway Apr 06 16:28:05 "why not" :) (if its easy to do) Apr 06 16:28:10 and cheap Apr 06 16:28:14 and not that power consuming Apr 06 16:29:08 games are usuful to have fun on boring classes :P Apr 06 16:29:20 I don't have classes anymore Apr 06 16:29:50 i like the usb docking Apr 06 16:30:19 Ainulindale, boring employer then? xD Apr 06 16:30:28 Nah. Apr 06 16:31:16 hahaha Apr 06 16:33:53 raster, if this is for marketing, the e logo could be made cooler to match the phone style. That was my first impression, now I don't notice it anymore. Apr 06 16:34:42 but I do like the video outs :) didn't see that at first Apr 06 16:36:05 flash is 400V and 2500A spike (a real flash) NIGHTMARE Apr 06 16:37:02 eolson: well it was just a splashscreen image i had of exquisite - so i put it on as a sample image Apr 06 16:37:07 it worked well with the colorscheme :) Apr 06 16:37:25 and the video outs are "because it is actually possible" Apr 06 16:37:34 as the omap3 can drive up to 1920x1080i Apr 06 16:37:40 720p is not a problem Apr 06 16:37:46 etc. Apr 06 16:38:05 that's the way I like it :) Apr 06 16:38:30 we paid for it, we'll use it Apr 06 16:38:42 all you need to do it run the lcd lines to the lcd AND to a dvi framer Apr 06 16:39:00 dvi framer just breaks the lcd out into dvi signal frames Apr 06 16:39:03 and bingo Apr 06 16:39:15 not like "we don't need that" for basic things that cost us zeeero Apr 06 16:39:18 you just need a control line to he framer to turn it on or off (lcd too) Apr 06 16:39:42 like line-in for gta02 Apr 06 16:39:57 :) Apr 06 16:48:41 raster, crazy idea -- you know openmoko might let you use their fab, etc, under the condition that you and your team are entirely in charge of this second project. sounds horrible, I know, but maybe it's an ok backup plan if other leads dry up. Anyway, that still doesn't give you hardware dev funding, but it might reduce it and fix the problem of finding a manufacturing place -- end crazy idea Apr 06 16:49:09 DocScrutinizer: ping Apr 06 16:49:24 alphaone: pong Apr 06 16:49:51 eolson fabbing mp-ready hw is easy... Apr 06 16:50:07 DocScrutinizer: Can you tell me which MP devices are affected by the LED drawing too much current? Apr 06 16:50:28 eolson developing sth. that no only works as in single-piece/protype volume but also in MP is _really_ hard.. especiall when it comes to sourcing. Apr 06 16:50:53 spaetz? Apr 06 16:50:58 It's only the red one, right? All MP devices have Q1501 with integrated bbase resistors, right? Apr 06 16:51:11 seems like A5 reworked to A6 are affekted Apr 06 16:51:27 right Apr 06 16:51:30 iirc Apr 06 16:51:56 should can tell byy hw-rev readout Apr 06 16:52:08 outch Apr 06 16:52:18 what a sentence ;ßl Apr 06 16:52:23 ;-) Apr 06 16:52:57 A5 w/o rework are bad on all 3 LED Apr 06 16:52:57 hmmm.. we got slashdotted? hmm.. doesnt look like it... havent notices anything... we got linked... i think... Apr 06 16:53:10 s/ces/ced/g Apr 06 16:53:25 /g ?? Apr 06 16:54:12 global (on what scope sed/etc) operated Apr 06 16:54:32 I know /g Apr 06 16:54:33 Ainulindale: hello Apr 06 16:54:40 useless here anyway Apr 06 16:55:11 DocScrutinizer: Okay, thanks Apr 06 16:55:16 raster: wouldn't you make a talk about E's past, present and future ? Apr 06 16:55:19 ptitjes: pong! Apr 06 16:55:25 Ainulindale!!! Apr 06 16:55:26 No way to tell which A5 were reworked and which weren't? Apr 06 16:55:28 ptitjes: I'm not sure that is quite relevant Apr 06 16:55:43 I'd say, it'd be more interesting to speak about E's relation to the embedded devices Apr 06 16:55:43 also seems it's been fixed since some troll did a ooooooooooooooo s/o/ooooooooooo/g Apr 06 16:56:02 ptitjes: did you get my hilight about your agenda? Apr 06 16:56:11 DocScrutinizer: ? Apr 06 16:56:15 Ainulindale: most of our current software is based on e, and we would need an overview of where it goes, and what dificulties we will meet Apr 06 16:56:29 alphaone: ?? Apr 06 16:56:35 missed myanswer? Apr 06 16:56:38 Ainulindale: I meant for embedded devices Apr 06 16:56:40 DocScrutinizer: Profit! Apr 06 16:56:44 Ainulindale: not yet read my mail Apr 06 16:56:47 ptitjes: That's not what you said Apr 06 16:56:49 Ainulindale: just come home Apr 06 16:56:51 You said E's past/present/future Apr 06 16:56:53 also seems it's been fixed since some troll did a ooooooooooooooo s/o/ooooooooooo/g Apr 06 16:56:57 I say it's useless as is Apr 06 16:56:58 don'T understand it :-) Apr 06 16:57:02 Ainulindale: please I worked for days Apr 06 16:57:08 What is of interest to us is to talk about E's relation with embedded devices Apr 06 16:57:13 Ainulindale: I'm not tired, I'm exhausted Apr 06 16:57:16 About what I said, you forgot your agenda at home Apr 06 16:57:20 (my place) Apr 06 16:57:31 Ainulindale: cool I'm looking for it for days now Apr 06 16:57:39 Ainulindale: why didn't you call me Apr 06 16:57:46 oooooooooooo Apr 06 16:57:48 Because I found it yesterday and I wasn't alone Apr 06 16:57:53 Plus it was late Apr 06 16:57:58 s/o/ooo/g Apr 06 16:57:58 DocScrutinizer meant: oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Apr 06 16:58:02 Ainulindale: I should have made my declaration for the month and I didn't add the information (it is on my agenda) Apr 06 16:58:09 And I didn't wear that many clothes Apr 06 16:58:14 not fixed ;) Apr 06 16:58:28 s/add/have/ Apr 06 16:58:29 ptitjes meant: Ainulindale: I should have made my declaration for the month and I didn't have the information (it is on my agenda) Apr 06 16:58:29 Okay, nothing to do with fixed LEDs then :-) Apr 06 16:58:29 ptitjes: I fixed the UTF8 input issue today Apr 06 16:58:44 I've seen that on the ML this morning Apr 06 16:58:53 But someone broke the locales generation Apr 06 16:58:59 alphaone: nope :-) Apr 06 16:59:00 I don't know why. Apr 06 16:59:06 But I'll spank some asses. Apr 06 16:59:14 ptitjes: Still no net at home by the way. Apr 06 16:59:33 roh, ok, sth sounds like hard problem, probably you'd have work a lot more closely with openmoko then. Apr 06 16:59:56 eolson its a general problem. not a om specific one. Apr 06 17:00:38 roh, right, i was trying to figure out the resources om could provide since they have the same goals, but raster wouldn't want them to manage anything Apr 06 17:01:21 eolson good question. i am only paid till the 23rd, then i need to see who pays my bills from there.. ;) Apr 06 17:01:54 ah, tough spot :/ good luck :) Apr 06 17:03:08 Ainulindale: An example of my tiredness: I sent a mail this morning to the ML but from a wrong mail account. I've just resent the same from the same mail account.... Apr 06 17:03:10 oh...I see...maybe something related hopefully :) Apr 06 17:03:11 too bad Apr 06 17:03:33 Ainulindale: so you are still at work ? Apr 06 17:03:35 eolson: OM itself was very unhappy with FIC's manuf line Apr 06 17:03:42 yes Apr 06 17:03:57 Ainulindale: could you call me this evening to tell give me informations from my agenda please ? Apr 06 17:04:04 no could I call you ? Apr 06 17:04:13 DocScrutinizer well.. it was afaik never intended for integration depths of a smartphone... Apr 06 17:04:21 Well I'll call you when I'll be at home then, but I won't be before 20h30 I think Apr 06 17:04:29 roh: right Apr 06 17:04:39 Ainulindale: neither will I Apr 06 17:04:50 Which hour then? Apr 06 17:04:51 Ainulindale: did I tell you I'll have a new laptop ? Apr 06 17:04:54 also training and making changes was a nightmare Apr 06 17:05:03 You will or you have ? Apr 06 17:05:09 Ainulindale: I'll go to my parents home in half an hour... Apr 06 17:05:28 Ainulindale: I received today or will receive it tomorow at my parent's home Apr 06 17:05:37 What did you buy? Apr 06 17:05:40 :D Apr 06 17:06:37 old line MacBook Pro 17" 1920x1200 - Intel Dual core 2.5Ghz - 4Go RAM - 320 Go HD - nVidia 8600GT Apr 06 17:06:56 :D :D :D Apr 06 17:07:20 linux?? Apr 06 17:07:33 ;D Apr 06 17:07:37 DocScrutinizer: Partitionned for sure Apr 06 17:08:10 DocScrutinizer: I'll do MacOS 10.5 + Gentoo Prefix (Gentoo on MacOS) | Gentoo Linux Apr 06 17:08:23 ptitjes: Mac.... Apr 06 17:08:28 Ainulindale: yes! Apr 06 17:08:32 we don't like macs Apr 06 17:08:33 Ainulindale: good quality Apr 06 17:08:39 The dark side... Apr 06 17:08:43 Ainulindale: indestructible hardware Apr 06 17:08:47 Macs and good quality? Apr 06 17:08:47 hehehe Apr 06 17:08:52 :x Apr 06 17:09:03 * dos1 doesn't think so Apr 06 17:09:04 roh, thanks for the info, I didn't know the fic/om manufacturing background Apr 06 17:09:06 let's start a decent flamewar on that Apr 06 17:09:07 ptitjes: no, that's thinkpads Apr 06 17:09:09 :D Apr 06 17:10:38 good quality with plastic finishing which drops back? no, thanks... Apr 06 17:10:45 Ainulindale: thinkpads are bad Apr 06 17:10:55 dos1: not that ones Apr 06 17:11:03 dos1: this is why I took the old line Apr 06 17:11:09 dos1: those are metal only Apr 06 17:11:13 ptitjes: no. Apr 06 17:11:23 dos1: keyboard for hardcore typers Apr 06 17:11:45 Ainulindale: yes they are Apr 06 17:11:47 No. Apr 06 17:11:50 for typers who doesn't feel hot ;p Apr 06 17:11:55 I have an hostage, you can't disagree with me. Apr 06 17:12:04 Ainulindale: héhéhé Apr 06 17:12:08 Ainulindale: not fair!! Apr 06 17:12:17 I never said I was a fair cop. Apr 06 17:12:24 I'm merely annoying. Apr 06 17:13:11 Ainulindale: so I go to my parent's home (no work for two days... I was beginning to think I would work all the days of my life non-stop) Apr 06 17:13:17 Ainulindale: for my install session Apr 06 17:13:28 Ainulindale: for two days Apr 06 17:13:40 Ainulindale: and have some rest Apr 06 17:13:42 :D Apr 06 17:13:54 Ainulindale: under the sun Apr 06 17:13:56 ptitjes: by the way Apr 06 17:14:00 For the presentations and such Apr 06 17:14:09 Ainulindale: btw go to the ML Apr 06 17:14:16 Ainulindale: I just resent my badly sent mail Apr 06 17:14:26 You should have some kind of formal thing to ask people to write formal presentations Apr 06 17:14:33 ptitjes: Already answered to it 5 minutes ago Apr 06 17:14:49 6 minutes, even, according to gmail Apr 06 17:14:52 Ainulindale: you mean constraints ? Apr 06 17:15:03 Ainulindale: ok I'll write that down Apr 06 17:15:16 No, but you should encourage people to write presentations Apr 06 17:15:19 To put them online Apr 06 17:15:24 Ainulindale: those constraint seems natural for me as I made 4 years of teaching Apr 06 17:15:26 That's a good way to have some kind of documentation Apr 06 17:15:36 Ainulindale: sure Apr 06 17:15:38 Constraints means nothing in this situation Apr 06 17:15:43 Ainulindale: I had no other ideas Apr 06 17:15:47 I wasn't talking about constraints but about presentations Apr 06 17:16:00 Ainulindale: what do you think people will do ? Apr 06 17:16:14 Ainulindale: talks are always presentation-based Apr 06 17:16:19 It depends, from people to people, we tend to do different things Apr 06 17:16:22 Nope Apr 06 17:16:31 Some people just put diagrams, images, and elaborate on that Apr 06 17:16:40 Ainulindale: ok I'll put that in a formal way Apr 06 17:16:44 We need something to be able to "read" that without attending Apr 06 17:16:59 That's what I was meaning Apr 06 17:17:04 Ainulindale: yeah like normal people do in normal conferences... :) Apr 06 17:17:20 Check Sean's presentation Apr 06 17:17:24 You'll understand what I mean Apr 06 17:17:24 Ainulindale: OK I'll precise that Apr 06 17:17:31 Plus IIRC Apr 06 17:17:34 Ainulindale: ha ok Apr 06 17:17:41 mickey|zzZZzz likes to do his presentations on a keynotes basis Apr 06 17:17:50 Here, this is not the "typical" presentation Apr 06 17:17:59 We also need some written material for the convention Apr 06 17:18:06 Such as tutorials "exercises" Apr 06 17:18:11 Workshop guidelines Apr 06 17:18:29 ok I'll think about how to turn things to not too much hurt people Apr 06 17:18:38 Don't care about that Apr 06 17:18:42 Ainulindale: but anyway you could also give that opinion on the MLs Apr 06 17:18:47 Ainulindale: that would help me Apr 06 17:18:52 Just tell people "Hey, lazy asses. We still have no written material on that." Apr 06 17:19:01 Yeah, and I will, but not now, I have stuff to do. Apr 06 17:19:19 Ainulindale: read your mail :) Apr 06 17:19:21 Plus I'm regenerating glibc for unstable. Apr 06 17:19:30 Ainulindale: please start now to think about outlines Apr 06 17:19:32 ptitjes: Why? Apr 06 17:19:36 Ainulindale: write them down Apr 06 17:19:46 Ainulindale: I want them to be publish on the programme Apr 06 17:19:51 I don't have to. I don't forget that easily. Apr 06 17:19:54 What? Apr 06 17:20:13 +ed Apr 06 17:20:20 (Did you read that I already read your last mail and answered to it?) Apr 06 17:20:26 (1 minutes ago?) Apr 06 17:20:27 +1 Apr 06 17:21:33 Ainulindale: I said that for your presentations Apr 06 17:21:47 Said what? Apr 06 17:21:49 Dos1 Apr 06 17:21:59 Either talk to me in french or be more precise =) Apr 06 17:22:09 Ainulindale: also did you like my idea of a presentation about what a "community release" is ? Apr 06 17:22:17 Yeah, and I intend to talk about that. Apr 06 17:22:25 I want to stress this point Apr 06 17:22:39 Ainulindale: Please prepare outlines for your presentations that I can publish on the programme of the convention Apr 06 17:22:44 Ainulindale: Is that more clear ? Apr 06 17:22:54 ptitjes: That's more clear, and as I told you, not now =) Apr 06 17:23:06 I have other things to do. Apr 06 17:23:15 Ainulindale: also I would like you try to involve mrmoku|e` Apr 06 17:23:23 IIRC he doesn't want to talk Apr 06 17:23:31 Ainulindale: things to do... details ??? :D Apr 06 17:23:33 He's not a "talker", according to him Apr 06 17:23:37 ptitjes: things, not people Apr 06 17:23:51 ohhh Apr 06 17:25:19 Dave Apr 06 17:25:44 :) Apr 06 18:12:15 ~seen ecraven Apr 06 18:12:15 ecraven was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko-cdevel, 35d 1h 16m 28s ago, saying: 'is there a pre-packaged debian jffs2?'. Apr 06 19:00:07 Ainulindale, ! Apr 06 19:00:19 spaetz, Apr 06 19:32:13 Dave: Dave? Apr 06 20:00:08 ONEN! Apr 06 20:14:19 Dave# Apr 06 20:18:44 DAVEY Apr 06 20:18:46 jones Apr 06 20:18:49 ;) Apr 06 20:19:56 Dave: DAVE! Apr 06 20:26:03 * onen wished Dave and myself would not be in different dimensions of time Apr 06 20:26:52 shoragan: ping Apr 06 20:32:14 onen: which tz are you in? Apr 06 20:32:20 Dave is quite active Apr 06 20:32:44 bumbl: I think it is CET +1 (Paris) Apr 06 20:33:35 bumbl: I know, but last days we always have been missing each other every time :-) Apr 06 20:33:43 onen: then you have time to chat with Dave before he is breakfast Apr 06 20:33:48 s/is/has/ Apr 06 20:33:48 bumbl meant: onen: then you have time to chat with Dave before he has breakfast Apr 06 20:34:27 ;) Apr 06 20:34:47 bumbl: thanks. no hurry. we agreed to talk about openBmap together. but we have not found a moment we where both available :-) Apr 06 20:35:13 s/where/were/ Apr 06 20:35:13 onen meant: bumbl: thanks. no hurry. we agreed to talk about openBmap together. but we have not found a moment we were both available :-) Apr 06 20:35:37 bumbl: thanks for making me discovering the s/xxx/yyy thing ;-) !!! Apr 06 20:35:54 sed syntax rocks Apr 06 20:36:18 but onen without bzzbot it does not work (so no general irc feature) Apr 06 20:36:25 bumbl: :-) Apr 06 20:36:48 bumbl: ok, but this is quite understandable on programmers channels probably Apr 06 20:36:53 Ownen! Apr 06 20:37:05 Dawve! Apr 06 20:37:25 :P Apr 06 20:37:31 Dave: you wanted to speak about obm? Apr 06 20:38:08 Who should I email with bugs and feature requests? Apr 06 20:38:13 and general comments :) Apr 06 20:38:18 onen: well #openmoko-cdevl is the only chan i know that has that feature (thanks to mwester) Apr 06 20:38:43 bumbl: elsewhere the users interpret it themselves :) Apr 06 20:39:48 Dave: me, me, more ME! Mr Andersen! Apr 06 20:39:50 and yeah, onen, it sucks. We apparently do live in alternate realities or something Apr 06 20:40:00 hahaha Oh, okay - I wasn't sure who I should be contacting with this :) Apr 06 20:40:06 bumbl: good to know, thanks Apr 06 20:40:21 Everytime I'm ready to chat you leave, and now you're ready, but I am leaving :P Apr 06 20:40:44 * Dave activates the time circuits in his freerunner Apr 06 20:40:56 Dave: ok, now I understand the first time we met, your apparition from nowhere, and the people running in fear and drawing pentagrams around your appartion point Apr 06 20:41:01 onen: I was wondering... are there any DB stats? I know I could extract some myself, but having something on the web would be cool :) Apr 06 20:41:33 :D Apr 06 20:41:40 Oh, noticed that, did you? ;) Apr 06 20:41:52 Dave: write to me, for the server side and website suggestions, I will forward to Nick Apr 06 20:41:54 Ainulindale: pong Apr 06 20:42:02 Okay, cool Apr 06 20:42:06 dent: hi, how are you doing? Apr 06 20:42:12 Yeah, I also tried building it myself and had problems with that :\ Apr 06 20:42:27 but didn't really give it much more thought since I pulled the binaries and just played with them Apr 06 20:42:30 Dave: building? python program? what do yo umean? Apr 06 20:42:35 onen: ever since I saw my data in the MAP... my life's been great :)) Apr 06 20:43:20 dent: Nick is out of town for the week, so do not be waiting for lastly logs uploaded to appear :-( He usually does it the day it sees it arriving Apr 06 20:43:55 onen: anyway I'm stuck for a week to the city... I might add some more data, but all just near to what I already uploaded Apr 06 20:43:59 dent: moment, I ask ;-) ... Apr 06 20:44:05 onen: you got Dave to use a python program? Apr 06 20:44:07 respect Apr 06 20:44:17 on weekend I might record something from soem other cities Apr 06 20:44:27 bumbl: he probably did not know! I should not have said it that loud! Apr 06 20:44:34 hehe Apr 06 20:44:42 dent: may I ask which country? Apr 06 20:45:04 bah spaetz ! Apr 06 20:45:10 were you looking for me? Apr 06 20:45:27 nope, it's secret! :) (230) Apr 06 20:45:27 who's in charge for bumping the e17 version in shr?! Apr 06 20:45:28 it's Mr. left-to-right! Apr 06 20:45:36 :p Apr 06 20:45:40 onen: i.e. Czech Rep. Apr 06 20:45:41 ;] Apr 06 20:45:57 dent: Ahoï! Apr 06 20:46:11 dent: dobre, dobre... Apr 06 20:46:15 lol :) Apr 06 20:46:37 :D Apr 06 20:46:40 mwester, not all were born equal. some were born with disabilities, for instance, mine is using an rtl language daily. Apr 06 20:46:41 bumble - YES :P Apr 06 20:46:47 ;[ Apr 06 20:46:55 onen: so far just some data from the capital... Apr 06 20:46:57 bah, I can'b believe it Apr 06 20:47:00 TAsn: that's a talent! Apr 06 20:47:02 dent: you noticed GSM data displayed as invalid, even when obvioulsy GSM coverage was there? Apr 06 20:47:04 I came home two hours ago Apr 06 20:47:09 and all I did is answering mail. Apr 06 20:47:14 Onen, memory leaks? :x Apr 06 20:47:15 I fear Apr 06 20:47:22 all freerunners are equal. but some are more than others Apr 06 20:47:25 dent: take the buss for a round trip :P Apr 06 20:47:30 mwester, actually, it is. trying writing a math equation embedded inside hebrew text Apr 06 20:47:32 that's hard! Apr 06 20:47:36 you have to guess the width. Apr 06 20:47:43 onen: yup... like sometimes it turns to N/A, but eventually itt returns to valid data Apr 06 20:47:45 trying=try Apr 06 20:47:50 onen: or, periodically Apr 06 20:47:57 fredrin? Apr 06 20:48:12 like if you're stuck in a city Apr 06 20:48:16 One Freerunner to rule them all. Apr 06 20:48:17 lol, collect some data Apr 06 20:48:17 Dave: what memory leaks? Apr 06 20:48:19 taas/nick spaetzAway Apr 06 20:48:23 oops Apr 06 20:48:27 Onen, exactly! Apr 06 20:48:31 Dave: oh that's pretty bad Apr 06 20:48:33 next weekend I go on a trip a bit to the west... the weekend after that I visit parents (east)... shoudl stretch the polygon a bit :) Apr 06 20:48:33 and have a look around at the same time Apr 06 20:48:42 >:) Apr 06 20:48:59 fredrin: bad thing is I'm also stuck at work... Apr 06 20:49:05 anyway I will get some more data Apr 06 20:49:11 ah Apr 06 20:49:22 bah Dave Orwell vs. Tolkien Apr 06 20:49:25 spaetzAway, ? Apr 06 20:49:30 Clippy - "I see you are trying to write a win32 applications, would you like me to add in some ambiguous error messages and memory leaks for you?" Apr 06 20:49:37 coward! come here and face me! Apr 06 20:49:39 Dave: dent: bug identified, and corrected. test on my way to work tommorow (even I this cannot have broken anything), and if nothing burns, will release a bug fix tomorrow Apr 06 20:49:46 actually, you were the one looking for me in the first place! Apr 06 20:49:50 Good Apr 06 20:50:00 onen: btw. how much sense does logging the same route again? I'd guess it might improve precision, but... you care for such data? Apr 06 20:50:28 TAsn: just a typo. Actually going to sleep now Apr 06 20:50:38 * spaetzAway snoozes Apr 06 20:50:52 * Dave tucks spaetz in Apr 06 20:51:04 spaetzAway, well you were looking for me earlier Apr 06 20:51:07 but ok. Apr 06 20:51:07 ;] Apr 06 20:51:10 night. Apr 06 20:51:18 dent: I would not think too much for this. You may follow a road and connect to different cells. we will have to manage this later in the database. kind of cleaning redundant data. for th emoment. go ahead Apr 06 20:51:52 Also, wtf I get an error? Apr 06 20:52:03 dent: my opinion is that it must stay easy for the user. generate/upload. nothing else to think. the software (client and/or server) takes care of the details Apr 06 20:52:52 I wanted to redo your icon too :p Apr 06 20:52:58 dent: I personnaly have logged 2-3 times some periodic roads, after this, I stopped. ... ... ... and borrowed the sim card from my gf :-D Apr 06 20:53:27 I was? can't remember why :) Apr 06 20:53:28 onen: ok, I was thinking the same (i.e. logging the same route 100 times is apparently useless, but 2-3 times...) Apr 06 20:53:32 * spaetzAway continues to sleep Apr 06 20:53:32 Dave: you mean the memory usage is increasing with time, I have not checked to be honest. but with the garbage collector, I have not put attention to this Apr 06 20:54:03 yeah Apr 06 20:54:03 onen: pity I have only one provider sim :-/ and I dislike the others, so... sorry, I'm not buying their SIMs :) Apr 06 20:54:24 spaetzAway, probably because you wanted to bump the e version in the bb? ;] Apr 06 20:54:24 onen: maybe I could do with a foreign SIM... + roaming, connect to the other provider (?) Apr 06 20:54:25 yeah that's annoying Apr 06 20:54:28 * TAsn wink Apr 06 20:54:29 s Apr 06 20:54:31 logging a 100 times will give high precision if averaged Apr 06 20:54:32 I have a bucket 'o SIMs so it's no problem Apr 06 20:54:38 but I agree, it's annoying/stupid Apr 06 20:54:40 dent: that is basically what I do all the time Apr 06 20:54:46 and makes success even more problematic Apr 06 20:54:57 good thing I have multiple freerunners and multiple carrier sims :D Apr 06 20:54:57 Dave: buckets? Apr 06 20:55:05 actually a single bucket, but yes Apr 06 20:55:14 I also have a bucket of µSD Apr 06 20:55:31 It would seem as if I procure items by the "bucket full" Apr 06 20:55:33 and a bucket of FRs? Apr 06 20:55:38 Dave: do you fill your bag with neos and go logging? Apr 06 20:55:45 :)) Apr 06 20:55:49 hahahahaha Apr 06 20:55:50 actually YES Apr 06 20:55:52 Dave: I have been thinking about buying one (only have two belonging to work, one for Nick, one for me), in order to logs two providers at the same time (3 in my country) Apr 06 20:55:58 historically anyway yeah Apr 06 20:56:05 dent, Dave thinks they'll start using mokos as currency sometime in the future, he's crazy. Apr 06 20:56:07 lol Apr 06 20:56:08 my freerunner necklace Apr 06 20:56:08 Dave: what make success even more problematic? Apr 06 20:56:10 hehe Apr 06 20:56:14 that's why his stocking them. Apr 06 20:56:23 :) Apr 06 20:56:41 onen, if you need to use different carrier SIMs to get more/all the data Apr 06 20:56:54 man, I'd be like THE ONE Apr 06 20:57:01 Dave: not neo earrings? Apr 06 20:57:08 Each freerunner I possess represents another nerd I killed and took his Apr 06 20:57:16 dent: quatrox: we *love* precision, that is the reason I don't want people to think about it. And we will need for sure, one day, cleaning less precise or redundant data Apr 06 20:57:16 Quatrox, maybe if I lived in Africa :D Apr 06 20:57:32 and wanted my lobes to drag on the ground Apr 06 20:58:29 onen: sounds great. I think octave (similar to matlab) could do the average filtering for you Apr 06 20:58:31 and I felt in *love* with FR on weekend... well, for a while everything worked so well (gps, gprs, openBmap, tangogps, terminal+ssh)... then GPRS choke and my love waned :-P Apr 06 20:58:44 Dave, someone should make a freerunner movie Apr 06 20:58:47 * Dave blames cosmic rays Apr 06 20:58:48 Dave, i think that's you Apr 06 20:58:55 :D Apr 06 20:58:58 hahahahahahahahaha Apr 06 20:59:01 OH MY GOD Apr 06 20:59:07 Mark my words... Apr 06 20:59:15 You may regret making that statement, eolson. Apr 06 20:59:18 I need someone to tell me if they decided to bump e's rev or not! I want to work with latest e but this version gap is bad for my health ;[ Apr 06 20:59:19 Movie title: "Despair" (or is that taken already?) Apr 06 20:59:19 >:D Apr 06 20:59:30 Mwester, it could be a remake! Apr 06 20:59:32 (with mokos) Apr 06 20:59:53 How do I set what year I want my freerunner to go to? Apr 06 21:00:02 Dave, mwester, Blair Witch: moko edition? Apr 06 21:00:04 Dave! This is an international and multi religious channel Apr 06 21:00:19 oh my gods, then? Apr 06 21:00:20 hahah Apr 06 21:00:31 The Openmoko Project (filmed in Blair Witch style) :P Apr 06 21:00:32 * mwester blows himself up Apr 06 21:00:35 set in... Taiwan?? Apr 06 21:00:41 TERRORISM! Apr 06 21:00:48 hmm Apr 06 21:01:07 who might be my god - my religion is asm Apr 06 21:01:16 quatrox|away: TAsn? Apr 06 21:01:17 :) Apr 06 21:01:22 Dave: will try to have a look at the memory going up, that is much annoying Apr 06 21:01:32 sounds like tasm... Apr 06 21:01:49 not tasm Apr 06 21:01:57 assembles Apr 06 21:02:00 asm Apr 06 21:02:07 dent: go ahead with foreign sims, software handles it smoothly (I drove accross borders :-) ) Apr 06 21:02:29 Yeah like, I leave your app running logging for 24hr Apr 06 21:02:34 I come back and ... uhhh slow? Apr 06 21:02:38 dent tasm sucks! Apr 06 21:02:43 :O Apr 06 21:02:47 what ever next version is going to be, it should have dual sim support.... Apr 06 21:02:47 don't try to relate that to me. ;] Apr 06 21:02:50 it's very popular Apr 06 21:02:51 Did you just insult yourself? Apr 06 21:02:51 nasm rules. Apr 06 21:03:01 and usefull Apr 06 21:03:02 rolftasns Apr 06 21:03:03 I liked masm (shame on me! :) Apr 06 21:03:04 did not sure. Apr 06 21:03:08 rofl Apr 06 21:03:17 dent, hehe yeah. Apr 06 21:03:25 actually last time I touched masm was many years ago. Apr 06 21:03:27 quatrox: Nick takes care of the server /db side, but for sure we will have to think about it. At that time, there will probably be 200 participants, and 20 contributors to the code ;-) Apr 06 21:03:33 and I thank god for that. Apr 06 21:03:36 nasm rules. Apr 06 21:03:36 ;] Apr 06 21:03:44 and *now* I'm fighting hitachi SH4 asm @ work :-/ what a cr.p Apr 06 21:04:11 I only ever knew x86 asm Apr 06 21:04:26 and read a bit about arm asm for the moko Apr 06 21:04:30 nothing too fancy though. Apr 06 21:04:43 bahhh I was away, your beeping woke me from the grave. Apr 06 21:04:44 night. Apr 06 21:04:50 TAsn: beep! Apr 06 21:04:51 :) Apr 06 21:04:55 asm is easy Apr 06 21:04:59 dent, DAMN YOU! Apr 06 21:05:02 nop nop nop nop Apr 06 21:05:06 * dent shuts up :-| Apr 06 21:05:09 goddamn Apr 06 21:05:12 I must admit... Apr 06 21:05:20 quatrox|away, it is. though it's hard! Apr 06 21:05:22 having to use four "main" phones is rather annoying Apr 06 21:05:23 asm is newspeak Apr 06 21:05:31 though it makes for good juggling practice :D Apr 06 21:05:50 and trying to write shakespeare in newspeak is hard Apr 06 21:05:51 ;] Apr 06 21:05:52 and now, thanks to onen, I'm going to lug a freerunner around with me Apr 06 21:05:53 newspeak? Apr 06 21:05:56 like 'keeg'? Apr 06 21:05:59 fredrin, 1984 Apr 06 21:06:04 ah Apr 06 21:06:05 doublespeak! Apr 06 21:06:09 the only reason I stopped with asm is that they are not very portable Apr 06 21:06:10 doubletalk Apr 06 21:06:13 really? Apr 06 21:06:16 like NLP? Apr 06 21:06:18 man I should read that again. Apr 06 21:06:20 BIG BROTHER Apr 06 21:06:25 BB ;] Apr 06 21:06:29 * Dave watches everyone through their freerunner Apr 06 21:06:29 dent: Dave: quatrox: I usually wait to have low HPV-Dops (GPS quality) and then hit the generate button (old openstreetmapper trick ;-) ). so I usually produces precise measures. But if you don't want to think about it, you just turn it on. We will filter unprecise data later. In that case, you have more reasons to want to log many time a same road. Apr 06 21:06:39 I'm a big brother :D Apr 06 21:06:39 actually, our prime minister's name is Apr 06 21:06:42 Bibi Apr 06 21:06:54 Oh onen, it also fucks up if you disconnect the gps while it's logging and the app is running :D Apr 06 21:06:56 which is pronounced Bi bi, i.e BB Apr 06 21:06:57 * Dave laughs Apr 06 21:07:10 Dave: I go everywhere with my 2 FRs (I have both at the moment) to log ;-) Apr 06 21:07:20 onen: I don't understand the GPS stuff... so... I'm the "click and forget" type I guess :)) Apr 06 21:07:25 :D Apr 06 21:07:28 I could use more Apr 06 21:07:40 but I'd rather not accidentially tear a hole in the universe right now Apr 06 21:07:47 anyhow, night. Apr 06 21:08:49 it's a great way of walking in new cities Apr 06 21:08:52 Dave: you disconnect the GPS? The app request the ressource through dbus freesmartphone, when all requesters are gone, the GPS stops by itself. you mean you force the GPS to stop? Apr 06 21:08:56 roaming like a dog Apr 06 21:09:01 big brother is watching the bad commie pigs Apr 06 21:09:32 dent: what is good. I try to build an application for this Apr 06 21:10:09 onen: I've goot too many things to catch up... I didn't get to GPS/GSM yet... I only partially conquered dbus so far... Apr 06 21:10:23 onen, remember, I destroy/break things! Apr 06 21:10:24 :D Apr 06 21:10:35 Everything which you thought was impossible suddenly becomes possible! Apr 06 21:10:37 and happens! Apr 06 21:10:38 :D Apr 06 21:10:38 :D Apr 06 21:10:42 dent: Dave: by the way, you may tinker the config file if you want some more control about the logging (the wiki page gives the details). e.g. Nick logs even at 0 km/h (and thinks we will clean it later in the db) I prefer to set 1 km/h minimum to allow logging, to prevent logging many time a point where I stay Apr 06 21:10:49 Just ask Joerg, if you don't believe :P Apr 06 21:11:02 Yeah I changed that Apr 06 21:11:02 huh?? Apr 06 21:11:05 I thought it was silly Apr 06 21:11:11 onen: too late :-P but I will change that Apr 06 21:11:17 Joerg: read up :P Apr 06 21:11:45 I spent some 30 mins on a bench on Sat... lazy me! :) Apr 06 21:11:54 Dave: destroying is good, you the perfect candidate to force me to squash all the bugs you will find! Apr 06 21:12:26 hahah yeah Apr 06 21:12:29 as long as you fix them! Apr 06 21:12:36 Snakes, I hate snakes. Apr 06 21:12:38 Dave: silly, and you chose what value? Apr 06 21:12:41 I don't want to fix your slithery code :p Apr 06 21:12:48 5 Apr 06 21:13:31 Dave: isn't it too high? If you walk, you may not log, right? Apr 06 21:13:53 hello Apr 06 21:14:05 It's fine Apr 06 21:14:14 Dave: that 's too bad, you wanted to contribute, too bad you don't like python :-( Apr 06 21:14:26 Man, bring me around Apr 06 21:14:29 I tolerate it Apr 06 21:14:47 We'll see Apr 06 21:14:53 Dave: :-) Apr 06 21:14:57 Anyway, Daveman Away! Apr 06 21:15:04 * Dave going to gather some data on his commute Apr 06 21:15:06 night all Apr 06 21:15:12 gn Apr 06 21:15:41 dent: dobre noce (not sure of the spelling) Apr 06 21:18:07 almost correct Apr 06 21:18:10 * dent is impressed :) Apr 06 21:27:16 sounded russian Apr 06 21:29:27 quatrox|away, far away from russian Apr 06 21:30:42 not that far Apr 06 21:30:52 ;) Apr 06 21:31:16 as for me it is more near polish(poland's language) Apr 06 21:35:10 доброе ночи is russian Apr 06 21:35:15 not so different Apr 06 21:35:47 доброй ночи Apr 06 21:36:06 thanks Apr 06 21:36:26 I was unsure Apr 06 21:36:31 and open variant is добре ноце Apr 06 21:37:27 it should be smth like dobroy nochi(with short i at end) Apr 06 21:37:57 or e, I'm not familar with english transcription Apr 06 21:38:34 anyway, russian is difficult to speak. I cannot pronounce the soft sounds Apr 06 21:38:49 and I only know a few words Apr 06 21:39:22 (the most important ones, like vodka, water, car, snow, ...) Apr 06 21:39:37 Do you want nice practice expirence and connected with linux?) visit lvee.org Apr 06 21:40:18 yes, funny that "vodka" is always on first place Apr 06 21:41:01 and only remove the k and you get water Apr 06 21:41:17 so that one is number two Apr 06 21:42:00 snow and lamp is quite similar to norwegian Apr 06 21:42:51 so I remember things that are similar Apr 06 21:43:13 so I cannot remember the alphabet:P Apr 06 21:44:34 alphabet = алфавит[alphaveet], you mean letters? Apr 06 21:44:48 or how to pronounce them?) Apr 06 21:47:23 so, whats the official word on this 'openmoko canceled, staff slashed' stuff? Apr 06 21:48:43 juri_: The official FSO word is "we believe in our ideas, the pursuit of an open phone will continue (even if with a larger focus on different hardware than before) Apr 06 21:49:20 juri_, in short, don't trust newspapers read maillists) Apr 06 21:51:13 alphaone: good, because thats my position, too. ;) Apr 06 21:51:52 just making sure i wasn't in #fail, with a project that has given up. i can only go it alone on one 45,000 line kernel patch at a time. Apr 06 21:51:55 Great, so we agree :-) Apr 06 21:52:45 so, is there a stock of neos? because i have yet to upgrade from my 1973... Apr 06 21:53:31 go FSO-Ninjas! Apr 06 21:53:32 juri_: There still are GTA02, yes Apr 06 21:53:38 ;) Apr 06 21:53:52 juri_, yes, gta02v06 is selling (~300$) and you will be able by gta02v07 soon. Apr 06 21:53:52 alphaone: i'll order a new pair friday. ;P Apr 06 21:54:01 ooh. Apr 06 21:54:05 worth the wait? Apr 06 21:54:25 depends on, you always can wait for a smth. Apr 06 21:54:52 or buy *now*, save 100$ in host of little hardware fix by your hands) Apr 06 21:55:14 i'm big on saving money, and fixing hardware. Apr 06 21:55:16 juri_: Do you have a buzz fix party near you? :-) Apr 06 21:55:22 hehe Apr 06 21:55:35 alphaone: i'm in arkansas. what do you think? ;P Apr 06 21:56:02 juri_: Come visit Germany on May 1st :-) Apr 06 21:56:31 it would be kindof neat to return 'home'. ;P Apr 06 21:56:35 alphaone: where in germany? Apr 06 21:56:46 dolf1074: Braunschweig Apr 06 21:57:57 alphaone: to bad, that's a little bit to far :( 10 hours driving Apr 06 21:59:36 dolf1074: There will be a mail-in service if I don't have to pay for the return package Apr 06 22:00:16 ah, sound interesting ;) Apr 06 22:07:21 alphaone: you are doing buzzfixes? Apr 06 22:07:37 Kensan: Yeah Apr 06 22:07:43 alphaone: neat! ;) Apr 07 00:28:39 there's only one type of AbstractModem, so if I wanted to change the commands used to init the modem I would have to replace the gsm one, not add a new one for cdma? Apr 07 00:48:04 tmzt: I guess that's a question for mickey. Nevertheless I'd consider it a better idea not to fork but instead rather extend the one driver to handle both types Apr 07 00:48:31 that would be preferred Apr 07 00:48:59 or maybe the vala port will have a different object structure Apr 07 00:54:20 ask mickey|zzZZzz tomorrow (now+8h) Apr 07 00:55:06 I will Apr 07 01:05:27 seeing people on SHR talks about opimd, but has there been developed a PIM interface in FSO? Apr 07 01:05:32 or any way to pull contacts out of FSO? Apr 07 01:09:30 ah, see it in the docs directory, there's an API, but this was not available on the website Apr 07 01:45:39 juri, home? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Apr 07 02:59:58 2009