**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri May 15 02:59:58 2009
May 15 05:03:10 <Blu3> jonkristian, gprs settings are saved now in shr unstable
May 15 05:03:13 <Blu3> n/m, he's gone
May 15 05:49:23 <playya__> good morning
May 15 05:49:42 <playya__> building ode_0.9 fails with this error: http://pastebin.com/f6d7fce32
May 15 06:03:30 <mrmoku|a`> playya__: hmm... IIRC it was compiling for me... not completely sure though
May 15 06:03:52 <playya__> i try to update ode to 0.11
May 15 06:04:13 <playya__> i want to build the new version of mokomaze :)
May 15 06:04:29 <mrmoku|a`> yeah... very much appreciated :)
May 15 06:11:01 <playya__> fails to with a automake error: http://pastebin.com/f24c33b1f
May 15 06:12:03 <mrmoku> playya__: you still have old autotools? or did you switch to the new shr.conf and rebuild from scratch?
May 15 06:12:08 <playya__> automake too old?
May 15 06:12:17 <mrmoku> libtool me thinks
May 15 06:12:22 <playya__> ok
May 15 06:12:40 <playya__> i need a complete rebuild?
May 15 06:12:56 <playya__> i just used git pull in shr to update everything
May 15 06:14:18 <mrmoku> think for the autotools a complete rebuild is indicated, yeah
May 15 06:14:35 <playya__> oh no
May 15 06:14:39 * mrmoku tries with new autotools now...
May 15 06:15:04 <playya__> i want to get on the train in 7h
May 15 06:15:31 <mrmoku> hehe... might be a problem then ;)
May 15 06:17:05 <playya__> lets get everything out of my CPU: PARALLEL_MAKE = "-j 8"BB_NUMBER_THREADS = "8"
May 15 06:17:39 <mrmoku> :)
May 15 06:17:47 <playya__> is it possible to profile bitbake?
May 15 06:19:12 <playya__> i still need a bachelor thesis and maybe i have an idea to tune bitbake a little bit
May 15 06:20:22 <playya__> mrmoku, how can i check if i have the new conf?
May 15 06:21:50 <mrmoku> playya__: you have to look at conf/auto.conf
May 15 06:21:53 <mrmoku> DISTRO = "shr"
May 15 06:23:02 <mrmoku> and then it should build automake-1.10 and libtool-2.24 (and lots of other stuff)
May 15 06:23:23 <mrmoku> btw.... I just retried ode-0.11 and it builds fine :)(
May 15 06:23:34 <mrmoku> but IIRC mokomaze does not find it
May 15 06:23:40 <mrmoku> trying now
May 15 06:23:58 <playya__> moep
May 15 06:24:22 <playya__> you already have a recipe for ode-0.11?
May 15 06:25:01 <mrmoku> playya__: copied the 0.9 one... adjusted the SRC_URI...
May 15 06:25:09 <playya__> me too
May 15 06:25:17 <playya__> had to remove -src
May 15 06:25:53 <mrmoku> yep
May 15 06:26:15 <mrmoku> ahh... and remove the patch
May 15 06:26:33 <mrmoku> but then it builds fine...
May 15 06:27:51 <playya__> have to check with the new config
May 15 06:28:56 <playya__> hmm. still the old config
May 15 06:33:54 <playya__> ahh  conf/site.conf         |    3 +++
May 15 06:35:03 <playya__> mrmoku, maybe you want to change the makefile to use mickey's OE on git.FSO?
May 15 06:41:15 <mrmoku> playya__: hmm... don't know...
May 15 06:41:42 <mrmoku> thats where mickey is comitting to... nytowl commits to oe/milestone5.5 instead...
May 15 06:42:46 <mrmoku> if mickey would have decided to fork... but until it is uncertain... I think we should stay at OE
May 15 06:42:57 <playya__> maybe mickey can merge the changes into his branch
May 15 06:42:59 <mrmoku> and cherry-pick fixes from mickey we need
May 15 06:43:28 <mrmoku> we should ask mickey|zzZZzz what he thinks about it
May 15 06:43:34 <playya__> he updated python and vala in his branch
May 15 06:48:49 <mrmoku> checking for dInitODE in -lode... no
May 15 06:48:49 <mrmoku> configure: error: *** ODE not found!
May 15 06:49:43 <mrmoku> 0002 mok@mrdenker[pts/8]:~/src/other/openmoko/shrbuild/dev/shr-unstable-> find tmp/staging/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/usr/lib/ -name libode\*
May 15 06:49:46 <mrmoku> tmp/staging/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/usr/lib/libode.la
May 15 06:49:49 <mrmoku> tmp/staging/armv4t-angstrom-linux-gnueabi/usr/lib/libode.a
May 15 06:49:57 <mrmoku> so... ode is missing .so's ... :(
May 15 06:51:22 <playya__> thats might be the install.patch
May 15 06:55:03 <mrmoku> :)
May 15 06:56:44 <mrmoku> looks like... think it did not apply... retrying
May 15 06:56:56 <playya__> FILES_${PN} = "${libdir}/lib*.so*"
May 15 06:59:36 <playya__> i added  --enable-new-trimesh --enable-ou. maybe they are useful ;)
May 15 07:05:23 <mrmoku> playya__: without the patch then?
May 15 07:05:46 <playya__> yes. but  Running task 210 of 633
May 15 07:06:03 <playya__> I'm preparing a patch for the makefiles
May 15 07:06:10 <playya__> e.g. disable tests
May 15 07:48:22 <ptitjes> good morning
May 15 07:49:27 <playya__> good morning
May 15 08:11:41 <ptitjes> playya__: how are you ?
May 15 08:11:59 <playya__> fine. and you?
May 15 08:12:25 <playya__> have to do some work. but instead i'm struggling with libode
May 15 08:13:25 <ptitjes> fine too
May 15 08:13:33 <ptitjes> playya__: what is libode ?
May 15 08:13:46 <playya__> a depency for mokomaze
May 15 08:13:57 <ptitjes> hum
May 15 08:14:18 <playya__> mokomaze 0.5.1 needs a newer version of libode
May 15 08:16:08 <ptitjes> open dynamics engine wow
May 15 08:28:21 <playya> ptitjes, someone ask where to meet before 8 pm
May 15 08:28:37 <playya> a friend of mine suggested this: http://www.unperfekthaus.de/e/
May 15 08:28:44 <ptitjes> yeah I noticed that
May 15 08:29:39 <playya> pay 5.50 and you have alle non alcoholic stuff for free + internet, table soccer, ...
May 15 08:29:51 <ptitjes> playya: I think we will arrive during the morning, to prepare the arrival of other people
May 15 08:30:01 <ptitjes> playya: I think we can meet at the linux hotel
May 15 08:30:24 <ptitjes> playya: don't you think ?
May 15 08:30:32 <playya> hm ok. i don't know when I arrive
May 15 08:30:39 <playya> never been there
May 15 08:30:52 <playya> the cafe is sponsored by the same guy
May 15 08:31:09 <ptitjes> hum why not...
May 15 08:31:40 <playya> stefan schmidt is the local organizer?
May 15 08:31:44 <ptitjes> playya: but I fear we (almost some of us) have things to do when arriving :)
May 15 08:32:01 <playya> yes
May 15 08:32:22 <ptitjes> playya: set up signalization, manage last rooms details, test the the broadcast stuff...
May 15 08:32:23 <ptitjes> :)
May 15 08:32:50 <ptitjes> hoh! I must take a printer!
May 15 08:33:10 <playya> i have to bring some servers to a nearby data centre
May 15 08:33:23 <ptitjes> playya: that is ?
May 15 08:33:44 <khiraly1> mickey|zzZZzz: there?
May 15 08:33:47 <playya> a data centre?
May 15 08:34:05 <playya> cold room with a lot of servers :)
May 15 08:35:00 <khiraly1> could somebody who knows frameworkd, look at this log?: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/117356/
May 15 08:35:14 <khiraly1> or the bugreport: https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2284#comment:9
May 15 08:35:24 <ptitjes> playya: hum yeah, but why so ?
May 15 08:35:28 <ptitjes> for a demo ?
May 15 08:36:05 <ptitjes> ~seen raster
May 15 08:36:05 <bzzbot> raster <n=raster@enlightenment/developer/raster> was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko-cdevel, 18h 23m 54s ago, saying: 'hell - bsd is closer'.
May 15 08:36:17 <ptitjes> ~seen stefan_schmidt
May 15 08:36:18 <bzzbot> stefan_schmidt <n=stefan@p5B036083.dip.t-dialin.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko-cdevel, 1d 13h 51m 11s ago, saying: 'later'.
May 15 08:36:46 <playya> I'M member of a club called Ubuntu Deutschland eV
May 15 08:36:49 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: hello
May 15 08:37:20 <playya> an we bought 10 used servers in switzerland. and i bring them to there destination
May 15 08:37:36 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: it seems we are only four going from Paris, or do you see some other people than onen, Deubeuliou, you and me ?
May 15 08:38:38 <khiraly1> I would like to talk my findings
May 15 08:40:00 <ptitjes> playya: I see... server smuggling :D
May 15 08:40:29 <playya> no. I paid the taxes
May 15 08:40:59 <ptitjes> :)
May 15 08:43:16 <ptitjes> mrmoku: I'm still in libtool 1.5 :(
May 15 08:43:29 <ptitjes> libtool-native-1.5.10-r10/
May 15 08:44:01 <ptitjes> mrmoku: hello btw
May 15 08:44:08 <ptitjes> I may have something wrong
May 15 08:44:18 <playya> ode still fails
May 15 08:44:53 <ptitjes> mrmoku: ok I found why
May 15 08:45:03 <ptitjes> I had not read auto.conf correctly :)
May 15 08:46:29 <rhkfin> Anyone here using 2009 & Paroli?
May 15 08:46:33 <ptitjes> mrmoku: hum doesn't DISTRO_FEED_PREFIX in shr.conf should be "shr-testing" and not "shr-dev" ?
May 15 08:48:21 <ptitjes> mirko-TBD: hello
May 15 08:48:49 <ptitjes> mirko-TBD: will you do "Paroli Status and Goals" ?
May 15 08:48:55 <ptitjes> at F9N ?
May 15 08:49:45 <mrmoku> ptitjes: it is just the name used in the opkg config files... I think
May 15 08:49:47 <mrmoku> ptitjes: hey btw.
May 15 08:50:26 <ptitjes> oki
May 15 08:51:37 <ptitjes> mrmoku: removed tmp/ again and relauching it with correct DISTRO="shr"
May 15 08:51:38 <ptitjes> :D
May 15 08:51:43 <playya> say hey ho chin chan. looking for trouble he's your man
May 15 08:54:27 <mrmoku> ptitjes: see you tomorrow then ;)
May 15 08:54:39 <ptitjes> héhéhé :)
May 15 08:55:22 <mrmoku> playya: who is chin chan? 
May 15 08:55:39 <playya> its a anime
May 15 08:56:53 <ptitjes> mrmoku: nah only 342 tasks for gobject-introspection-native
May 15 08:57:24 <mrmoku> ptitjes: bah... not building the complete stuff is lame ;)
May 15 09:00:50 <ptitjes> mrmoku: but I am lame :)
May 15 09:01:05 <ptitjes> (know fact)
May 15 09:01:51 <Heinervdm> does anyone has a frameworkd dbus interface for java?
May 15 09:03:47 <playya> Heinervdm, its the same oO
May 15 09:05:26 <Heinervdm> playya: you have to generate a java class for this, it can be autogernerated with a a class from java-dbus, but that doesn't work for me
May 15 09:05:27 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #441 (pyphonelog crash on shr-testing (02-May-2009)) closed <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/441#comment:2>
May 15 09:05:58 <playya> Heinervdm, sorry i never used java + dbus
May 15 09:06:20 <playya> isn't there a generic way to use DBus?
May 15 09:07:24 <Heinervdm> playya: you have to convert the dbus signals into java data types. thats the only think you have to do
May 15 09:07:54 <playya> no autoboxing?
May 15 09:08:12 <mirko-paroli> hej ptitjes
May 15 09:08:14 <mirko-paroli> F9N?
May 15 09:08:38 <ptitjes> mirko-paroli: FSOSHRUDCON
May 15 09:08:44 <ptitjes> :)
May 15 09:08:44 <mirko-paroli> ah
May 15 09:09:02 <mirko-paroli> currently I have no ticket (to europe that is)
May 15 09:09:11 <Heinervdm> playya: sure, but if i try that, the only thing i get is an error :)
May 15 09:09:11 <ptitjes> really ?
May 15 09:09:19 <mirko-paroli> am still trying to figure out what makes more sense
May 15 09:09:35 <Heinervdm> playya: so perhaps someone else has done it before
May 15 09:10:02 <ptitjes> mirko-paroli: ?
May 15 09:10:16 <playya> i don't like java. so i don't know what has been done there.
May 15 09:10:19 <mirko-paroli> ptitjes: trying to get things in order here or go to erope for a visit
May 15 09:10:31 <playya> EUROPE!
May 15 09:11:05 <mirko-paroli> playya: gonna pay the flight ? ;)
May 15 09:11:14 <playya> <-- poor student
May 15 09:11:36 <mirko-paroli> I will try to figure it out today or tomorrow
May 15 09:12:31 <mirko-paroli> but it is always safer not to count me in
May 15 09:14:59 <mrmoku> ptitjes: having a problem with vala-native from pending-upstream-move
May 15 09:15:00 <mrmoku> make[2]: *** No rule to make target `valadbusinterfaceregisterfunction.vala', needed by `codegen.vala.stamp'.  Stop.
May 15 09:15:18 <mrmoku> probably because it is using the old valac on my buildhost?
May 15 09:15:33 <ptitjes> that looks like yep
May 15 09:15:44 <playya> are you using vala from git?
May 15 09:16:13 <mrmoku> on my buildhost? no
May 15 09:16:18 <ptitjes> mrmoku: did it trigger vala-bootstrap-native first ?
May 15 09:16:25 <mrmoku> vala-native in OE is from git
May 15 09:16:40 <mrmoku> ptitjes: no, have to clean it manually before
May 15 09:16:50 <ptitjes> mrmoku: hop hop hop wait
May 15 09:16:55 <mrmoku> did not do that... because I have *some* valac on my buildhost
May 15 09:17:30 <ptitjes> mrmoku: shit I failed a rebase
May 15 09:17:41 <mrmoku> ptitjes: ahh, your fault then :P
May 15 09:18:06 <ptitjes> mrmoku: Jurg moved gobject/ to codegen/ and a file from me has not been copied :( http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=vala-lang.git;a=tree;f=gobject;h=a8d9f31c48c754bc89d4ed334b93d17c47e007fc;hb=refs/heads/pending-upstream-move
May 15 09:18:12 <ptitjes> fuck
May 15 09:18:27 <ptitjes> mrmoku: I'll fix this in some minutes...
May 15 09:20:20 <mrmoku> ptitjes: ok :)
May 15 09:30:43 <playya> there seems to be a problem with -Wcross for autoreconf
May 15 09:31:01 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: MarcOChapeau at least, maybe a guy from bearstech
May 15 09:31:11 <Ainulindale> (Not sure for MarcOChapeau)
May 15 09:38:44 <playya> mrmoku, i still have the error with ode: http://pastebin.com/f7f4113b6
May 15 09:39:19 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: anotherone than Khorben ?
May 15 09:39:46 <playya> any ideas how to fix this?
May 15 09:39:59 <Ainulindale> khorben doesn't know if he'll come, bearstech may not be there
May 15 09:40:11 <ptitjes> arf :(
May 15 09:40:19 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: and please answer to my questions on the dbus thread
May 15 09:41:07 <morphis> heyho
May 15 09:41:11 <rhkfin> 2009 users?
May 15 09:46:22 <mrmoku> playya: #
May 15 09:46:24 <mrmoku> configure.in:47: require Automake 1.10, but have 1.9.6
May 15 09:46:36 <mrmoku> still have the old autotools...
May 15 09:46:44 <playya> hmm. yes. but i updated everythink
May 15 09:46:51 <playya> maybe wrong srcrev
May 15 09:48:17 <mrmoku> morphis: hey :)
May 15 09:48:41 <mrmoku> morphis: is elm_scroller_set_policy() implemented in python-elementary?
May 15 09:52:19 <morphis> mrmoku: actually don't know, I don't worked on python-elementary for a long time :)
May 15 09:52:25 <morphis> I doubt
May 15 09:52:41 <morphis> python-elementary needs an update ... quickly :)
May 15 09:53:43 <rhkfin> Do we have here anyone who's using something else than SHR? I guess some Debian people here, too? Other..?
May 15 09:53:44 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #442 (DOSbox Package Request) created <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/442>
May 15 09:55:59 <mrmoku> morphis: ok... is somebody else working on it? or will you do it? :P
May 15 09:56:23 <morphis> mrmoku: I don't think that until now somebody else is working on python-elementary
May 15 09:56:28 <morphis> I am very busy at the momen
May 15 09:56:29 <morphis> t
May 15 09:56:55 <morphis> maybe I can fix some stuff today
May 15 09:57:16 <mrmoku> morphis: if not... when dos1 would prepare a patch... could you commit it?
May 15 09:57:39 <morphis> would be great!
May 15 09:57:43 <mrmoku> dos1: giving you some homework ;)
May 15 09:59:28 <morphis> mrmoku: what do you actually need, only elm_scroller_policy_set() ?
May 15 10:01:07 <dos1> morphis: i would like to see inwin bindings also ;)
May 15 10:01:23 <dos1> and genlist
May 15 10:02:41 <dos1> oh, inwin is implemented
May 15 10:02:47 <dos1> as innerwindow
May 15 10:02:48 <dos1> :)
May 15 10:04:53 <dos1> so only genlist
May 15 10:04:53 <dos1> ;)
May 15 10:06:00 <dos1> morphis: i would also like to see genlist implemented :)
May 15 10:06:37 <morphis> dos1: you are not the only one :)
May 15 10:07:21 <morphis> I will try to work a little bit on it today
May 15 10:07:23 <dos1> mrmoku: can you build new -unstable image? i would like to test it today
May 15 10:08:27 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #443 (Automatic screen lock when suspending) created <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/443>
May 15 10:08:31 <dos1> my girlfriend had 2GB microSD, which works crappy on her motorola u9, and i had 4GB, which works crappy on my FR ;)
May 15 10:08:51 <dos1> so i want to test her 2GB card in FR, and then my 4GB card in her Motorola
May 15 10:09:35 <dos1> and great way to test it is to install fresh SHR image, to test it also ;)
May 15 10:10:58 <Zorkman> hehe
May 15 10:12:18 <mrmoku> dos1: ok
May 15 10:13:56 <morphis> mrmoku: how is it going with the shr release next weekend?
May 15 10:15:53 <TAsn> omg, there's only a week left.
May 15 10:16:31 <TAsn> Ainulindale, will there be a final unstable to testing clone this week?
May 15 10:16:36 <morphis> oh, I meant the weekend after the weekend starting today :)
May 15 10:16:44 <TAsn> because testing's efl is OLD.
May 15 10:17:12 <TAsn> and I bet there are more fixes I can't think about atm.
May 15 10:25:51 <Heinervdm> mrmoku: wasn't there jamvm or jalimo within the SHR feed some months ago?
May 15 10:26:12 <mrmoku> Heinervdm: eeek... java ;)
May 15 10:26:18 <mrmoku> don't know
May 15 10:26:43 <Heinervdm> in the openembeded recieps dir is a reciep for jamvm ;)
May 15 10:26:56 <mrmoku> might be we build it manually... and did not add it to the feed :P
May 15 10:26:57 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #342 ([shr-testing 20090303] tangogps segfaults when changing Cache Dir) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/342#comment:4>
May 15 10:27:05 <Heinervdm> :(
May 15 10:27:05 <mrmoku> will try
May 15 10:27:09 <Heinervdm> thx
May 15 10:37:35 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #443 (Automatic screen lock when suspending) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/443#comment:1>
May 15 10:46:17 <ptitjes> hum Ainulindale, would that be easy to add a reply-to to the MLs ?
May 15 10:46:35 <ptitjes> that would be nice indeed
May 15 10:46:51 <rhkfin> nytowl: since wiki is a mess and has outdated information here & there - would it make sense to try to activate people for a day to clean it..?
May 15 10:55:47 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: you mean default reply to ML?
May 15 10:56:14 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: yep
May 15 10:56:28 <Ainulindale> This would be easy but I won't do it as this isn't the best practice for MLs
May 15 10:56:45 <Ainulindale> One shouldn't enforce reply to as one should be able to reply to the sender only
May 15 10:57:01 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: ah didn't know
May 15 10:57:21 <ptitjes> I always prefered it
May 15 10:57:27 <rhkfin> ptitjes: http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
May 15 11:03:32 <ptitjes> rhkfin: thank you
May 15 11:08:24 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: just answered to your reply. COuld you still answer to my first reply with all the questions in it please?
May 15 11:08:59 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: trying to do it actualy
May 15 11:09:25 <Ainulindale> http://www.flickr.com/photos/funinthegym/2523635678/ <= meh
May 15 11:12:07 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: I don't aggree with what you say in your reply
May 15 11:12:13 <ptitjes> the last one
May 15 11:12:58 <Ainulindale> Then if you disagree say so in the ML
May 15 11:13:10 <Ainulindale> That's what is interesting, disagreeing
May 15 11:13:20 <Ainulindale> I have my ideas, you have yours, we won't see each other points if we don't talk about it
May 15 11:13:28 <Ainulindale> Plus other people may say our views are stupid altogether
May 15 11:13:29 <ptitjes> I'll say quite similar in the reply for for your first reply
May 15 11:13:43 <Ainulindale> That is?
May 15 11:13:49 <ptitjes> Wait
May 15 11:13:51 <ptitjes> :)
May 15 11:14:05 <Ainulindale> https://www.labite.com/ <= classy
May 15 11:14:15 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: in fact maybe where we don't see the same thing
May 15 11:14:27 <Ainulindale> Why do you think I'm telling you to talk?
May 15 11:14:30 <ptitjes> is that I believe UI apps should be in their own process
May 15 11:14:37 <Ainulindale> I don't even consider "maybe" as a possibility
May 15 11:14:41 <Ainulindale> I know we're not talking about the same thing
May 15 11:14:59 <Ainulindale> And I'm sure I'm not the only one there trying to understand why you think this or that is necessary
May 15 11:15:09 <Ainulindale> That's why I'm asking questions to make you describe it
May 15 11:15:39 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: I don't care about the result of your API: I know you're able enough to make it good. I'm interested in the thought process, as this may not be good/convenient/related to what we need
May 15 11:15:52 <Ainulindale> As for your last remark
May 15 11:15:55 <Ainulindale> That was a prerequisite
May 15 11:15:57 <Ainulindale> in my first mail
May 15 11:16:14 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: own process ?
May 15 11:16:19 <Ainulindale> To me UI should be sandboxed in their own process/thread
May 15 11:16:27 <ptitjes> ok
May 15 11:16:31 <Ainulindale> I told so in the ML
May 15 11:16:34 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: cool now I'm sure
May 15 11:16:54 <Ainulindale> about what?
May 15 11:17:04 <ptitjes> we speaking about the same thing
May 15 11:17:20 <ptitjes> architecturely speaking
May 15 11:17:25 <ptitjes> -e+a
May 15 11:17:39 <Ainulindale> Well I drafted the architecture it'd be a pity if I wasn't speaking about what I asked a solution for =)
May 15 11:18:12 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: so we need common UI metaphores and they are just as important as domain-specific APIs
May 15 11:18:20 <ptitjes> point
May 15 11:18:34 <khiraly1> hmm
May 15 11:18:37 <Ainulindale> that was mickey|zzZZzz's remark
May 15 11:18:40 <Ainulindale> and I agreed with him
May 15 11:18:45 <Ainulindale> that's why we need to talk about that first
May 15 11:18:53 <Ainulindale> write some rules, some glossary about what we speak
May 15 11:19:19 <ptitjes> IMHO he didn't well explained what he means by "UI metaphors"
May 15 11:19:26 <Ainulindale> well I agree
May 15 11:19:37 <Ainulindale> that's because he's german and was waiting for his morning sausage
May 15 11:19:47 <Ainulindale> (his morning sausage is called Klaus IIRC)
May 15 11:19:47 <ptitjes> but I believe they are the with what I talk about with "my Core components"
May 15 11:20:03 <ptitjes> +same
May 15 11:20:14 <Ainulindale> Your core components are a technical implementation of something not defined
May 15 11:20:36 <Ainulindale> Give me your definitions
May 15 11:20:41 <Ainulindale> And I'll tell you what I think about it
May 15 11:20:56 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: I mean progress reporting and busy state, notifications, job management
May 15 11:21:07 <ptitjes> ...
May 15 11:21:23 <ptitjes> this is the proper point of ophonekitd
May 15 11:21:29 <Ainulindale> Progress reporting is, as I said, not relevant to me here
May 15 11:21:41 <Ainulindale> Because to me this is relevant to the inner management of the library
May 15 11:21:47 <Ainulindale> progress reporting is a notification
May 15 11:21:51 <ptitjes> UI apps will implement the domain-specific APIs and ophonekitd will only delegate to them
May 15 11:22:08 <ptitjes> (or we could say route to instead of delegate to)
May 15 11:22:38 <Ainulindale> notifications are informative event, progress is part of it (to me), it doesn't have to be specific
May 15 11:22:49 * mrmoku refuses to be called a sausage ;)
May 15 11:22:50 <Ainulindale> and I still don't get what you're talking about when you talk about job management
May 15 11:22:56 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: meh :-)
May 15 11:23:00 <ptitjes> héhéhé
May 15 11:23:45 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: I want the different operations the phone is currently doing|running to be first-class UI
May 15 11:23:49 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: please describe in simple words what you put under the terms you use, in a mail
May 15 11:23:53 <Ainulindale> I think this will be useful to everyone
May 15 11:24:04 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: yep I'll do
May 15 11:24:05 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: I didn't get your sentence
May 15 11:24:12 <ptitjes> an example
May 15 11:24:15 <Ainulindale> It seems to be lacking a verb
May 15 11:24:18 <ptitjes> GSM activation
May 15 11:24:40 <ptitjes> I want the user to have a UI somewhere to that the gsm activation being done
May 15 11:24:54 <ptitjes> +is
May 15 11:25:03 <Ainulindale> Could you rewrite that in proper english? =)
May 15 11:25:12 <ptitjes> With a progress bar!!! nah! :)
May 15 11:25:20 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: yes
May 15 11:25:28 <Ainulindale> Well you want that ok, then why not use a simple notification?
May 15 11:25:38 <Ainulindale> Let us say a signal in the realm "GSM ACTIVATION"
May 15 11:25:43 <Ainulindale> Which would send 10%/20%
May 15 11:25:44 <Ainulindale> I don't know
May 15 11:25:48 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: Illume is starting, the gsm icon is turning in the sys tray
May 15 11:26:02 <Ainulindale> Why would we need to have a specific "domain" for the screen which will display that?
May 15 11:26:02 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: I click on it, and I see the progress in the status bar
May 15 11:26:11 <Ainulindale> What if my library doesn't want to use that?
May 15 11:26:11 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: "GSM is being activated"
May 15 11:26:26 <Ainulindale> Or doesn't want to use any kind of progress screen
May 15 11:26:45 <Ainulindale> what bothers me is that you're (not knowingly I think) wrapping toolkits with this "progress" thing
May 15 11:27:03 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: then just don't display it
May 15 11:27:12 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: I'll still have to implement the primitives
May 15 11:27:22 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: or make it a a circle arc being filled if you want :)
May 15 11:27:38 <ptitjes> but we need the reporting off the information somewhere to ophonekitd
May 15 11:27:46 <Ainulindale> Already told you
May 15 11:27:52 <Ainulindale> I call that "Notification"
May 15 11:28:00 <Ainulindale> Under that term I put all that is remotely related to informational content
May 15 11:28:08 <Ainulindale> Progress, missed calls, low battery, whatever
May 15 11:28:09 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #328 (Battery meter behaves unpredictably on GTA01) closed <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/328#comment:1>
May 15 11:28:37 <Ainulindale> But then again, even though I'll need that
May 15 11:28:47 <Ainulindale> If I have some primitives which won't be implement for this or that toolkit
May 15 11:28:50 <Ainulindale> (for example this progress thing)
May 15 11:28:54 <Ainulindale> this means, to me, that the API is bad
May 15 11:29:02 <Ainulindale> because it doesn't reflect what it's supposed to reflect
May 15 11:29:07 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: no this theming
May 15 11:29:10 <Ainulindale> that is: each method is non optional
May 15 11:29:12 <Ainulindale> and has a purpose
May 15 11:29:20 <ptitjes> if the theeme display that as notification ok
May 15 11:29:30 <Ainulindale> Displays what?
May 15 11:29:48 <ptitjes> but you don't have to reduce the thing to simple annotation because you don't want to see progress
May 15 11:30:00 <Ainulindale> I don't reduce anything, you still don't get what I'm telling you
May 15 11:30:01 <ptitjes> ok writing the mail
May 15 11:30:09 <Ainulindale> Notification to me is informative content sent to the UI
May 15 11:30:20 <Ainulindale> If the UI developer wants to display a full screen window, use libnotify
May 15 11:30:29 <Ainulindale> Or even send morse code through the leds
May 15 11:30:30 <Ainulindale> I don't care
May 15 11:30:31 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: you mean the technical notifications
May 15 11:30:34 <ptitjes> then 
May 15 11:30:38 <ptitjes> notification buses
May 15 11:30:40 <Ainulindale> I'll have sent him the info
May 15 11:30:51 <ptitjes> I don't speak about that at all ainulindale
May 15 11:30:58 <TAsn> Ainulindale,  please consider fixing #335 sounds like a good idea...
May 15 11:31:03 <Ainulindale> that's why I'm tleling you to explain yourself
May 15 11:31:06 <Ainulindale> s/tlel/tell/
May 15 11:31:07 <bzzbot> Ainulindale meant: that's why I'm telling you to explain yourself
May 15 11:31:18 <TAsn> spaetz, here?
May 15 11:31:19 <Ainulindale> TAsn: what is it?
May 15 11:31:21 <ptitjes> But I explained: "You have a new message"
May 15 11:31:27 <ptitjes> is notification
May 15 11:31:28 <TAsn> Ainulindale, adding the voting plugin to trac
May 15 11:31:36 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: So?
May 15 11:31:38 <Ainulindale> TAsn: Can't
May 15 11:31:41 <ptitjes> GSM is being activated: 50% done
May 15 11:31:41 <Ainulindale> Not now anyway
May 15 11:31:43 <Ainulindale> Bearstech is busy
May 15 11:31:46 <ptitjes> is job management
May 15 11:31:49 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: nope
May 15 11:31:53 <Ainulindale> it's a notification to me a
May 15 11:31:56 <Ainulindale> +s well
May 15 11:32:06 <Ainulindale> you call it job management I call it notification
May 15 11:32:15 <Ainulindale> this has the same purpose
May 15 11:32:19 <Ainulindale> being informative
May 15 11:32:24 <TAsn> Ainulindale, i c. ok.
May 15 11:32:25 <Ainulindale> and the matter is not how we call it
May 15 11:32:33 <ptitjes> I want progress report
May 15 11:32:36 <Ainulindale> the matter is: why would we handle it in a specific way?
May 15 11:32:39 <ptitjes> common to all UI
May 15 11:32:41 <dos1> what about sending MMS?
May 15 11:32:45 <dos1> it takes some time
May 15 11:32:46 <Ainulindale> You can do progress report using notifications ptitjes, again
May 15 11:32:54 <dos1> as we have only GRPS
May 15 11:32:54 <ptitjes> I wan't undo/redo globally to the phone UI
May 15 11:32:57 <Ainulindale> Then it relies on the underlying UI to handle these notifications as it wants to
May 15 11:33:00 <TAsn> mind if I add a class to tickets that means something like "will be done at a later time" and mark this with that?
May 15 11:33:11 <dos1> i (as user) would like to see progress of sending that MMS
May 15 11:33:14 <TAsn> I think we generally need this kind of status, and this is a good example.
May 15 11:33:19 <ptitjes> but I digress
May 15 11:33:20 <Ainulindale> TAsn: well nah you can
May 15 11:33:28 <dos1> Ainulindale, ptitjes: as example
May 15 11:33:39 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: what I don't want to is to type the information
May 15 11:33:42 <TAsn> I don't get what nah has to do with it, but, will do.
May 15 11:33:45 <Ainulindale> and that is what I think you're trying to do
May 15 11:33:54 <ptitjes> yeah sure
May 15 11:33:55 <Ainulindale> That is : notification about "event", "progress", "job being done"
May 15 11:34:11 <Ainulindale> I don't want to do that because it'll "type" the API, we'd need to build several different things
May 15 11:34:21 <Ainulindale> which would in turn impact on the underlying libraries
May 15 11:34:30 <Zorkman> to jump in on the discussion: dos1: me (as a user) would also want progress report when sending sms
May 15 11:34:34 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: and I though this is kinda what you wanted too, when you said you want specific PIM methods and not generic ones
May 15 11:34:34 <Ainulindale> which will force the developer to implement things he may not want to use
May 15 11:34:37 <ptitjes> this is typing
May 15 11:34:39 <TAsn> Ainulindale, will call it postponed, ok?
May 15 11:34:47 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: I didn't say that
May 15 11:35:30 <ptitjes> Zorkman: exactly!
May 15 11:35:57 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: I want people to be able to do scripts in shell calling ophonekitd, and fso
May 15 11:35:57 <Ainulindale> Zorkman: yes, you can do that with either ptitjes' or my idea
May 15 11:36:10 <Ainulindale> Zorkman: I just don't want the UI developer to be forced to implement progress report
May 15 11:36:13 <Ainulindale> Plus, to tell the truth
May 15 11:36:19 <Ainulindale> Even if we'd have "progress" report for SMS
May 15 11:36:24 <Ainulindale> It wouldn't differ at all from what we have now
May 15 11:36:29 <Ainulindale> as there is no report from the framework anyway
May 15 11:36:33 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: no you are wrong "with either ptitjes' or my idea"
May 15 11:36:38 <Ainulindale> No I'm not wrong
May 15 11:36:49 <Ainulindale> You don't get my idea that's all
May 15 11:36:57 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: he does no have to implement progress report
May 15 11:37:00 <ptitjes> he has to use it
May 15 11:37:04 <Zorkman> Ainulindale, ptitjes: i'm not taking sides, i'm not technically skilled enough to make a judgement, just saying that it would be a nice addition (every phone i know can do this)
May 15 11:37:07 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: and this is important
May 15 11:37:17 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: else you will only have a collage of apps
May 15 11:37:18 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: Not with what you described as a draft API
May 15 11:37:23 <dos1> Ainulindale: you mean sending many notifications "MMS is being sended...", 20%
May 15 11:37:23 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: and that would be stupid
May 15 11:37:30 <dos1> and later "MMS is being sended...", 21%
May 15 11:37:35 <dos1> with type "progress"?
May 15 11:37:36 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #335 (Install Trac's VotePlugin to offer voting on issues) closed <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/335#comment:2>
May 15 11:37:44 <Ainulindale> dos1: about what?
May 15 11:37:48 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: you still don't get it
May 15 11:37:55 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: If the UI developper wants to use progress report, so be it
May 15 11:38:00 <Ainulindale> If he wants not to, so be it too
May 15 11:38:00 <dos1> Ainulindale: about sending progress as notifications
May 15 11:38:15 <Ainulindale> We don't have the right to force the developer to use a feature he doesn't care about
May 15 11:38:18 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: oh yeah, he can not use it
May 15 11:38:26 <Ainulindale> That's why I'm telling
May 15 11:38:38 <Ainulindale> Building a specific domain for something wrapping toolkits for that is dumb to me
May 15 11:38:39 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: and the progress go from 0 to 100% in one time but then
May 15 11:38:46 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: No, again
May 15 11:38:56 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: its users will tell him heh man do implement progress please
May 15 11:39:03 <Ainulindale> You still don't get it
May 15 11:39:14 <TAsn> dos1, progress report is not that important, more important is a started sending and finished sending notifications.
May 15 11:39:18 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: "we don't know whether you app did freeze or not"
May 15 11:39:26 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: you still don't get it, again
May 15 11:39:37 <Ainulindale> What I told you was
May 15 11:39:49 <Ainulindale> We'll send notifications from ophonekitd as an information basis
May 15 11:40:02 <Ainulindale> These notifications will globally concern everything remotely relateed to informative content
May 15 11:40:06 <Ainulindale> Such as progress
May 15 11:40:09 <Ainulindale> call it notification or progress I don't care
May 15 11:40:13 <Ainulindale> What I don't want to do is
May 15 11:40:20 <dos1> TAsn: but progress reports should be able to be done by GUI developers
May 15 11:40:22 <Ainulindale> having some sort of org.shr.ophonekitd.Progress.ShowProgress() thing
May 15 11:40:30 <Ainulindale> Because this is useless from the outside
May 15 11:40:42 <Ainulindale> And useless for the developer who doesn't want to use a progress bar
May 15 11:40:48 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: did I say there needs a ShowProgress anywhere ?
May 15 11:40:49 <Ainulindale> (for this or that feature)
May 15 11:40:51 <ptitjes> heh
May 15 11:41:05 <TAsn> dos1, they should probe for status if they care, i.e bytes sent so far for msg id #.
May 15 11:41:09 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: yes
May 15 11:41:10 <Ainulindale> In your mail
May 15 11:41:14 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: nah
May 15 11:41:23 <Ainulindale> If you didn't they you didn't explain yourself properly
May 15 11:41:24 <ptitjes> you did not read it well
May 15 11:41:26 <Ainulindale> Which leads me to tell you again
May 15 11:41:30 <Ainulindale> Explain yourself properly in words
May 15 11:41:34 <Ainulindale> Not in code/prototypes
May 15 11:41:44 <Ainulindale> Because if we have such a discussion about such a specific thing
May 15 11:41:47 <Ainulindale> AS I hope I'm not dumb
May 15 11:41:54 <Ainulindale> That may only mean you're not as clear as you hope
May 15 11:42:03 <Ainulindale> And as you told yourself, you often have difficulties being understood
May 15 11:42:10 <Ainulindale> I don't think I'm not understanding you on purpose
May 15 11:42:23 <Ainulindale> I have other things to do than pissing you on purpose
May 15 11:42:35 <Ainulindale> I don't get what you described because it's not "really" described
May 15 11:42:40 <Ainulindale> Please tell what you think in words
May 15 11:42:49 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: Please see the ophonekitd and apps as a distributed network
May 15 11:42:59 <Ainulindale> Mail!
May 15 11:43:09 <Ainulindale> I'm not alone in this discussion
May 15 11:43:11 <Ainulindale> Other people are interested
May 15 11:43:17 <Ainulindale> Plus I will forget this if I can't reread it
May 15 11:43:37 <Ainulindale> And this will force you to write it in one piece without being interrupted, which will please you I'm sure =)
May 15 11:43:49 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: you  didn't explain well yourself
May 15 11:43:59 <Ainulindale> Maybe, then ask questions
May 15 11:44:02 <ptitjes> I have to ask you questions here
May 15 11:44:03 <ptitjes> see
May 15 11:44:07 <Ainulindale> That's what I'm doing with others
May 15 11:44:33 <ptitjes> "You don't get the point" is what I see in substance in your replies
May 15 11:44:43 <Ainulindale> You're wrong
May 15 11:44:51 <dos1> You don't get the point
May 15 11:44:53 <dos1> ;)
May 15 11:44:54 <Ainulindale> You see disagreement 
May 15 11:44:57 <Ainulindale> Because I disagree
May 15 11:45:01 <Ainulindale> I don't pretend to be the only one having ideas
May 15 11:45:03 <ptitjes> then I'm mad
May 15 11:45:07 <Ainulindale> I have mine, and I'll defend them
May 15 11:45:33 <TAsn> dos1, wind attacking #437 and #415? you are the bb expert after all ;]
May 15 11:45:39 <ptitjes> I'm tired to defend mine
May 15 11:45:43 <TAsn> #415 seems to be a nice package
May 15 11:45:57 <ptitjes> for sure
May 15 11:46:00 <dos1> TAsn: i'm bb expert?
May 15 11:46:02 <dos1> ;x
May 15 11:46:07 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: well this is a standard thing to do when building specifications
May 15 11:46:13 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: you need something, I need another thing
May 15 11:46:16 <Ainulindale> We disagree on the needs
May 15 11:46:23 <Ainulindale> When we'll agree on the needs all will be well
May 15 11:46:27 <Ainulindale> That's why we need to talk about it
May 15 11:46:27 <TAsn> and #437 seems important, since armv4t doesn't handle floating points computations very good.
May 15 11:46:31 <TAsn> dos1, duh. ;]
May 15 11:46:38 <dos1> TAsn: isn't intone in our repo yet?
May 15 11:46:40 <rhkfin> Anyone have some idea of the crashing stuff in frameworkd.log (has several tracebacks) http://pastebin.com/m4645706f
May 15 11:46:49 <TAsn> dos1, nope, just checked
May 15 11:46:52 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: Don't think that because I disagree with you I think you're dumb or don't understand what we need
May 15 11:46:55 <TAsn> was surprised as well.
May 15 11:47:00 <Ainulindale> I disagree with you simply because I disagree with you
May 15 11:47:06 <Ainulindale> I don't see the same need than you
May 15 11:47:10 <TAsn> dos1, maybe it's just not built?
May 15 11:47:12 <dos1> mrmoku: didn't you work on intone recipe some time ago?
May 15 11:47:14 <TAsn> (i.e, bb exists)
May 15 11:47:35 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: but then I don't see any conter argument to its need from you
May 15 11:47:41 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: what could I explain more
May 15 11:47:45 <ptitjes> if we don't aggree
May 15 11:47:56 <TAsn> dos1, there is a recipe
May 15 11:47:59 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: I told you loads of counter arguments
May 15 11:48:00 <TAsn> just verified
May 15 11:48:06 <ptitjes> nah
May 15 11:48:07 <TAsn> though I guess it's not built
May 15 11:48:09 <ptitjes> notification
May 15 11:48:16 <Ainulindale> That is : I don't want to force the UI developer to implement something or use another thing he doesn't want to use
May 15 11:48:23 <TAsn> sec, trying to build it
May 15 11:48:26 <ptitjes> if we don't dig in technical details you won't show me this is sufficient
May 15 11:48:27 <Ainulindale> If you think this isn't relevant, say so, but then explain why because you still didn't do it
May 15 11:48:35 <TAsn> if it works Ainulindale will be kind enough to tell it to build in the build host ;]
May 15 11:48:57 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: first step is
May 15 11:49:01 <Ainulindale> "The question of "special treatment" depends on, IMHO, two things: do
May 15 11:49:01 <Ainulindale> we want to truly abstract toolkits? Do we want to enforce specific UI
May 15 11:49:02 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: so we have to detail what needs to be given/implemented/used by the UI developper
May 15 11:49:02 <Ainulindale> guidelines?"
May 15 11:49:05 <Ainulindale> answer to that
May 15 11:49:08 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: this is design
May 15 11:49:13 <ptitjes> but you want to talk
May 15 11:49:17 <Ainulindale> and to the previous one
May 15 11:49:21 <TAsn> dos1, anyhow, tremor also looks like a good idea.
May 15 11:49:30 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: this isn't design
May 15 11:49:38 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: this is needs expression
May 15 11:50:11 <Ainulindale> Do you think that in my current job, when a non technical people needs to have a technical workflow to handle habilitations, I'll ask him what he wants as the underlying solution?
May 15 11:50:14 <mrmoku> dos1: I even can build it locally...
May 15 11:50:19 <mrmoku> does not build on the buildhost though
May 15 11:50:23 <Ainulindale> No, I will ask him what he does right now, and what he'd like to be able to do
May 15 11:50:31 <mrmoku> missing installed autotools on the buildhost
May 15 11:50:35 <Ainulindale> These are the basics for functional specifications
May 15 11:50:36 <mrmoku> have to fix the recipe
May 15 11:50:52 <TAsn> mrmoku, so please do ;]
May 15 11:50:56 <TAsn> pythm sucks
May 15 11:51:06 <TAsn> and having a good sound/video player in the image is important
May 15 11:51:15 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: and another question is
May 15 11:51:15 <Ainulindale> "So, to me, the next question is: do we want, now, to be able to
May 15 11:51:16 <Ainulindale> "modularize" or "genericize" it to a point which will allow us to say
May 15 11:51:16 <Ainulindale> to, for instance, the contact list, "display the contacts starting
May 15 11:51:16 <Ainulindale> with foo, and return the bar field of their PIM entry"? Do we need
May 15 11:51:18 <Ainulindale> that level of modularity, or do we want to build, first, a basic sets
May 15 11:51:21 <Ainulindale> of methods which will allow us to be isofunctional with what we
May 15 11:51:23 <Ainulindale> already have, then will allow us to add additional methods which won't
May 15 11:51:26 <Ainulindale> impair the functionnalities already developed?"
May 15 11:51:35 <Ainulindale> and another in this mail
May 15 11:56:46 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #437 (mplayer with tremor support) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/437#comment:1>
May 15 11:56:51 <TAsn> mrmoku, any idea what seems to be the problem?
May 15 11:58:13 <dos1> http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/437#comment:1
May 15 11:58:20 <dos1> err
May 15 11:58:29 <dos1> bad window ;x
May 15 11:58:55 <mrmoku> TAsn: the problem was that it was trying to copy some autoconf file (don't remember which one) from /usr/share/...
May 15 11:59:04 <mrmoku> and on the buildhost there are no autotools installed
May 15 11:59:11 <TAsn> mrmoku, oh
May 15 11:59:15 <TAsn> the NEWS
May 15 11:59:16 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #209 ([phonegui-efl-new] Trying to scroll to the top contact is sometimes hard) closed <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/209#comment:2>
May 15 11:59:17 <TAsn> and crap?
May 15 11:59:21 <mrmoku> yep
May 15 11:59:24 <TAsn> mrmoku, known issue
May 15 11:59:28 <TAsn> just provide a patch
May 15 11:59:31 <TAsn> that adds those files
May 15 11:59:36 <TAsn> and commit them
May 15 11:59:44 <mrmoku> ok, will try
May 15 11:59:54 <TAsn> thanks a lot!
May 15 11:59:58 * mrmoku too wants intone as player
May 15 12:00:05 <TAsn> btw, while you are at it
May 15 12:00:08 <mrmoku> TAsn: there is another problem... the source code is missing the icons
May 15 12:00:23 <TAsn> mrmoku, the patch should add an icon as well. ;]
May 15 12:00:39 <TAsn> and btw
May 15 12:00:41 <mrmoku> hehe... have some icons?
May 15 12:00:46 <TAsn> mrmoku, nope ;[
May 15 12:01:09 <TAsn> SRC_URI = "svn://intone.googlecode.com/svn;module=trunk;proto=http"
May 15 12:01:09 <TAsn> S = "${WORKDIR}/trunk"
May 15 12:01:12 <TAsn> seems more correct to me.
May 15 12:01:22 <mrmoku> I sent a private mail more than a week ago to c_c... probably got spam filtered :P
May 15 12:01:22 <TAsn> because the scode might have a temp dir
May 15 12:01:38 <TAsn> that will may break your build.
May 15 12:01:44 <TAsn> mrmoku, ;]
May 15 12:01:46 <mrmoku> ok... copied that from some other recipe with google svn ;)
May 15 12:02:14 <TAsn> I'm not sure there's any harm in what you did, just think it may be a better idea.
May 15 12:03:45 <mrmoku> TAsn: btw.... I started implementing the message notification thingie
May 15 12:04:03 <TAsn> message notification thingie?
May 15 12:04:13 <TAsn> the panel gadget I talked about yesterday?
May 15 12:04:35 <mrmoku> SMS message receipt
May 15 12:04:38 <dos1> mrmoku: message notification thingie?
May 15 12:04:46 <TAsn> mrmoku, OH, GREAT! ;]
May 15 12:04:48 * mrmoku got confused by all that notifcation talk ;)
May 15 12:05:01 <TAsn> Actually I hope I'll finish my h.w for the week today and will have time to fix some bugs tomorrow. :)
May 15 12:05:09 <mrmoku> :D
May 15 12:05:41 <TAsn> Ainulindale, you didn't answer my question from before, will there be another copy from unstable to testing before testing becomes the release? because iirc testing uses a bunch of old packages...
May 15 12:06:04 <Ainulindale> I'm delegating the reply to mrmoku :-p
May 15 12:06:23 <mrmoku> hehe...
May 15 12:06:35 <mrmoku> we should do that yeah
May 15 12:07:24 <mrmoku> I'm not sure what is the *good* way... probably branching off 'testing2' of 'master' in the overlay
May 15 12:10:19 <TAsn> at least you agree it should be done.
May 15 12:10:40 <TAsn> because there a couple of deal breakers for RTL users.
May 15 12:10:50 <TAsn> which reminds me
May 15 12:10:54 <TAsn> ~seen raster
May 15 12:10:54 <bzzbot> raster <n=raster@enlightenment/developer/raster> was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko-cdevel, 21h 58m 43s ago, saying: 'hell - bsd is closer'.
May 15 12:10:59 <TAsn> sucks. ;\
May 15 12:12:56 <TAsn> Ainulindale, anyhow, have you given any thought about wrapping ophonekitd with a restarter loop? ;] (I think I first suggested this 6 months ago +-)
May 15 12:13:16 <TAsn> You said ophonekitd doesn't crash
May 15 12:13:20 <TAsn> but it does crash, a lot. ;]
May 15 12:13:31 <mrmoku> TAsn: ticket #? ;)
May 15 12:13:38 <TAsn> ;]
May 15 12:13:45 <TAsn> no ticket ;[
May 15 12:13:52 <TAsn> shit, no ticket = no proof ;[
May 15 12:14:11 <mrmoku> it 'crashed' a lot, because there were lots of g_warn in ophonekitd and libframeworkd-glib
May 15 12:14:21 <mrmoku> and the fatality for g_warn set to abort
May 15 12:14:39 <mrmoku> I removed some... maybe still some missing...
May 15 12:14:48 <TAsn> i c.
May 15 12:15:06 <playya> mrmoku, you have to add --enable-shared to get a .so for ode
May 15 12:15:07 <TAsn> well let's hope it won't crash anymore... ;)
May 15 12:15:16 <mrmoku> dos1: hope you have some time with the image
May 15 12:15:28 <mrmoku> it won't build until ptitjes fixed vala-native to build again
May 15 12:15:41 <mrmoku> playya: great, thanks :)
May 15 12:15:58 <TAsn> mrmoku, before you generate the new image, set intone in instead of pythm.
May 15 12:16:02 <TAsn> Does anyone object?
May 15 12:16:10 <playya> reading INSTALL.txt helps ;)
May 15 12:18:10 <mrmoku> playya: who knows to read has a clear advantage :P
May 15 12:18:42 <playya> who reads even more
May 15 12:19:02 <playya> who reads and understands: ++++++++++++++++
May 15 12:19:13 <mrmoku> TAsn: could you send a short query to the ML please?
May 15 12:19:27 <TAsn> mrmoku, huh, about what?
May 15 12:19:33 <TAsn> oh
May 15 12:19:35 <TAsn> okie.
May 15 12:20:15 <mrmoku> thanks :)
May 15 12:23:06 <mrmoku> TAsn: hehe, extracted the intone icons from the opkg.org ipk
May 15 12:23:14 <mrmoku> (as nytowl suggested some days ago :P)
May 15 12:23:35 <TAsn> mrmoku, ;]
May 15 12:23:41 <TAsn> that's a good idea.
May 15 12:23:42 <TAsn> ;]
May 15 12:27:57 <TAsn> ok, mrmoku sent to list.
May 15 12:30:12 <TAsn> btw, I hate opkg.org ;]
May 15 12:32:23 <TAsn> btw, what do you think about taking the gtkrc from hackable:1 ? demo here: http://trac.hackable1.org/trac/wiki/WooshBrowser
May 15 12:32:27 <TAsn> everything looks the right size.
May 15 12:33:29 <mrmoku> TAsn: probably a lot better than what we have now :P
May 15 12:33:36 <TAsn> mrmoku, ++ ;]
May 15 12:34:40 <TAsn> hm.. I wonder where to get it from without downloading the whole image.
May 15 12:34:52 <dos1> TAsn: looks like gtkrc from om2007.2
May 15 12:35:01 <TAsn> dos1, not quite
May 15 12:35:08 <TAsn> they made the scrollbars black
May 15 12:35:16 <TAsn> and made them a bit smaller.
May 15 12:35:23 <TAsn> they improved it a bit. ;]
May 15 12:35:27 <dos1> hmm
May 15 12:35:35 <TAsn> though we need to take a stand! we have to choose a new theme
May 15 12:35:43 <mrmoku> TAsn: will reply to your mail... and move it to shr-user, ok?
May 15 12:36:01 <TAsn> mrmoku, ok. I'm not registered to shr-user, but fine with me ;]
May 15 12:37:48 <mrmoku> TAsn: nah... you use it... should register ;)
May 15 12:38:05 <TAsn> maybe later ;]
May 15 12:38:14 <Heinervdm> woosh looks much better on H:1 then on SHR, on SHR the font size is much to big...
May 15 12:40:00 <TAsn> Heinervdm, that's a matter of proper gtkrc (I think)
May 15 12:40:05 <TAsn> which shr doesn't have at all.
May 15 12:40:54 <Ainulindale> that's your fault!
May 15 12:41:09 <TAsn> why is that my fault?
May 15 12:41:16 <TAsn> I always claimed I'm not gtkrc expert ;]
May 15 12:41:34 <TAsn> I already contributed the expander's size ;]
May 15 12:41:53 <Ainulindale> Yeah but I like to tell it's other people's fault
May 15 12:42:02 <Heinervdm> :D
May 15 12:42:10 <dos1> ~seen Dave
May 15 12:42:10 <bzzbot> dave <n=dave@pool-138-89-1-87.mad.east.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko-cdevel, 28d 23h 21m 16s ago, saying: 'dos1, I thought opimd was just a legend!? :o'.
May 15 12:42:15 <TAsn> Ainulindale, ok, I accept this argument
May 15 12:42:25 <Ainulindale> :-)
May 15 12:42:29 <dos1> it's all his fault, that's why he is not here!
May 15 12:42:31 <Ainulindale> how's life anyway TAsn?
May 15 12:42:54 <TAsn> Ainulindale, looking for the gtkrc file of 2007.2 in order to rip some stuff off
May 15 12:42:58 <TAsn> how are yours?
May 15 12:43:04 <TAsn> any idea where it might be at?
May 15 12:43:10 <Ainulindale> yours what?
May 15 12:43:37 <TAsn> life
May 15 12:44:06 <Ainulindale> well good
May 15 12:44:56 <TAsn> ;]
May 15 12:45:04 <TAsn> know where I can get the 2007 gtkrc from?
May 15 12:46:46 <mickeyl> TAsn: OM SVN
May 15 12:47:13 <TAsn> http://svn.openmoko.org/ ?
May 15 12:47:47 <mickeyl> e.g.
May 15 12:48:10 <TAsn> http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007.2/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-2/gtk-2.0/=
May 15 12:48:12 <TAsn> thanks ;]
May 15 12:51:42 <mickeyl> ptitjes: ping
May 15 12:51:52 <mickeyl> ptitjes: pending-upstream-move does not build for me atm.
May 15 12:52:02 <mickeyl> does it for you?
May 15 12:52:15 <ptitjes_> arf yeha
May 15 12:52:36 <mickeyl> bummer, that's odd
May 15 12:53:31 <mickeyl> make[2]: Entering directory `/local/pkg/fso/vala-lang/codegen'
May 15 12:53:31 <mickeyl> make[2]: *** No rule to make target `valadbusinterfaceregisterfunction.vala', needed by `codegen.vala.stamp'.  Stop.
May 15 12:53:34 <mickeyl> aah
May 15 12:53:37 <mickeyl> there's a bug
May 15 12:53:39 <ptitjes_> mickeyl: I know
May 15 12:53:40 <mickeyl> this file is still in gobject
May 15 12:53:43 <ptitjes_> 2sec phone
May 15 12:53:45 <mickeyl> oki
May 15 12:54:11 <mrmoku> mickeyl: waiting for him too :P
May 15 12:55:08 <mickeyl> k, you first
May 15 12:55:22 <mrmoku> no... same issue :)
May 15 12:55:25 <mrmoku> vala-native
May 15 12:55:45 <mickeyl> ah
May 15 12:56:19 <mickeyl> hmm, fun
May 15 12:56:30 <mickeyl> a maintainer-clean solved it
May 15 12:56:44 <mickeyl> guess there were some leftovers in the tree from switching branches
May 15 13:05:03 <rhkfin> Is there FSO IRC channel or do the devels hang around here? I might have a bug to be reported
May 15 13:05:42 <rhkfin> ie. the crashes at http://pastebin.com/m4645706f
May 15 13:07:38 <rhkfin> OTOH I'd think someone has already faced the same texts in the logs..
May 15 13:09:30 <mickeyl> please open a bug
May 15 13:09:50 <mickeyl> ophoned has not received lots of attention lately, since most people still use ogsmd
May 15 13:09:57 <mickeyl> should be fixed though
May 15 13:10:05 <mickeyl> s/be/get/
May 15 13:10:05 <bzzbot> mickeyl meant: should get fixed though
May 15 13:10:37 <khiraly1> doh. Cant believe it. I modified slightly frameworkd. Just added logger.debug, and there is no sound in either way
May 15 13:10:40 <khiraly1> ;)
May 15 13:10:53 <rhkfin> mickeyl: ok
May 15 13:13:14 <khiraly1> mickeyl: can I ask questions about frameworkd code?
May 15 13:13:30 <ptitjes_> mickeyl: that should fix the problem in the meanwhile
May 15 13:13:51 <ptitjes_> http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=vala-lang.git;a=commit;h=9a4546d1140b496cfffdfbf4be06cf37f32bde47
May 15 13:14:33 <mickeyl> khiraly1: sure
May 15 13:14:59 <khiraly1> please see this bugreport: https://docs.openmoko.org/trac/ticket/2284#comment:11
May 15 13:15:23 <mickeyl> ptitjes_: thanks. I'm creating a bunch of new patches on top of master for mickey/0.7/posix. May I ask you to rebase our pending-upstream to catch up with that once i'm done? :)
May 15 13:15:44 <mickeyl> this bug report should be @ FSO, not OM
May 15 13:15:56 <khiraly1> and fso_trigger.py:60
May 15 13:16:29 <mickeyl> the dbus timeout is definitely a bug
May 15 13:17:37 <khiraly1> the Warning line is always happening when you receive a call. And Im asking if the fso_trigger.py line 60 is ok as it is
May 15 13:18:14 <mickeyl> i don't know offhand, this code is from Charlie
May 15 13:18:16 <khiraly1> because added many logger.debug() in the code, and it seems at the first calling, the variable self.status=active and the parameter status = incoming
May 15 13:18:16 <mickeyl> need to look into 
May 15 13:18:34 <CIA-75> SHR: 03seba.dos1 07shr-settings * r64266407606d 10/data/po/pl/ (shr-settings.mo shr-settings.po): [i18n] update polish translation
May 15 13:18:35 <ptitjes_> mickeyl: sure
May 15 13:18:43 <CIA-75> SHR: 03seba.dos1 07shr-settings * r08ff28835ceb 10/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [i18n] fixes and update
May 15 13:18:44 <CIA-75> SHR: 03seba.dos1 07shr-settings * rdccbd607411c 10/ (TODO shr_settings_modules/shr_wifi.py): [WiFi] make it loading again
May 15 13:19:45 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rda54a121b23d 10/fsodeviced/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): fsodevice: kernel_input: fix dbus marshalling problem
May 15 13:19:47 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rf878e9965de2 10/libfsoframework/ (3 files in 2 dirs): fsoframework: remove stuff from PosixExtra and create proper patches on top of vala master
May 15 13:22:47 <Zorkman> it's been a while since i checked the assisted gps status of gso
May 15 13:22:52 <Zorkman> s/gso/fso
May 15 13:23:03 <Zorkman> is it already implemented in the framework
May 15 13:23:05 <mrmoku> TAsn: arggh... latest intone does not even compile :(
May 15 13:23:05 <Zorkman> ?
May 15 13:23:57 <TAsn> mrmoku, yeah, noticed. ;[
May 15 13:24:24 <khiraly1> is it valid python?: http://pastebin.com/m7b7ef874
May 15 13:24:42 <khiraly1> how can I break string into multiple line?
May 15 13:24:44 <nytowl> mrmoku, you have a woosh recipe ?
May 15 13:26:02 <ptitjes_> mickeyl: I fixed correctly the problem on dbus-experimental, I wait for your stuff to globally update pending-upstream-move
May 15 13:27:15 <mrmoku> nytowl: no :(
May 15 13:27:36 <nytowl> mrmoku, ah I just saw you were test it too bad
May 15 13:28:03 <ptitjes_> mrmoku: vala pb is fixed btw
May 15 13:28:05 <mrmoku> nytowl: me? woosh? no..
May 15 13:28:11 <mrmoku> ptitjes_: ok, thanks
May 15 13:28:16 <mickeyl> ptitjes_: great, thanks. I guess my patches will keep me busy for the rest of today, I'll ping you tomorrow when it's done
May 15 13:28:23 <mrmoku> TAsn: going to do a patch then...
May 15 13:29:11 <betheg> 5
May 15 13:29:12 <TAsn> cool, I'm writing a theme atm.
May 15 13:29:30 <nytowl> mrmoku, sorry to early for me to be reading irc logs :)
May 15 13:30:11 <dos1> TAsn, mrmoku: what are you breaking? ;)
May 15 13:30:52 <TAsn> he's breaking intone
May 15 13:30:57 <TAsn> I'm breaking gtk
May 15 13:30:57 <TAsn> ;]
May 15 13:31:12 <dos1> ;)
May 15 13:31:24 <dos1> i'm breaking opimd
May 15 13:31:34 <ptitjes_> mickeyl: ok yet I just made scripts to recreate pending-upstream-move so :) I'll push now
May 15 13:31:41 <mickeyl> oki
May 15 13:32:07 <mrmoku> nytowl: np :)
May 15 13:32:35 <DocScrutinizer> moin
May 15 13:32:38 <mrmoku> dos1, TAsn: somebody else should break efl... then the work is complete ;)
May 15 13:33:49 <TAsn> :)
May 15 13:34:10 <DocScrutinizer> efl need more breakage? that's new to me :-) could do anyway
May 15 13:36:55 <ptitjes_> mrmoku: ok fixed properly now
May 15 13:37:07 <ptitjes_> Ainulindale: answer done
May 15 13:41:52 <mrmoku> DocScrutinizer: yeah... go ahead :P
May 15 13:44:00 * DocScrutinizer is going to pipe efl sources thru an evil awk|sed command including elements from dev/random and a sort
May 15 13:45:08 <mrmoku> nytowl: hope to get an intone recipe done though... I extracted the icons as you suggested
May 15 13:46:00 <nytowl> mrmoku, cool , I have mokomaze and omnewrotate in the feed now
May 15 13:46:54 <rhkfin> mickeyl: reported as per request: http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/432
May 15 13:46:57 <nytowl> mrmoku, I'll add the intone recipe when it's ready but I'll have to drop the mplayer RDEPENDS and I'll recommnd people cherry-pick it from your feed
May 15 13:47:42 <khiraly1> hmm
May 15 13:47:57 <alexxy> mirko-paroli: ping
May 15 13:48:01 <khiraly1> if I write this:         logger.debug("WhileRule.trigger(%s)", **kargs)
May 15 13:48:02 <khiraly1> (rule.py)
May 15 13:48:11 <mirko-paroli> hi alexxy
May 15 13:48:24 <mrmoku> nytowl: ok
May 15 13:48:28 <khiraly1> I do not have sounds anymore (wither when calling or receiving. I cant hear the other part en he cant her me. The ringtone is fine)
May 15 13:48:34 * mrmoku is happy to have a france based buildhost :P
May 15 13:48:46 <khiraly1> does somebody has an explanation?
May 15 13:48:48 <alexxy> mirko-paroli: does writing unicode characters will be supported by paroli?
May 15 13:49:01 <alexxy> mirko-paroli: currently i can only read them
May 15 13:49:01 <mirko-paroli> alexxy: I am very surprised that it doesn't work
May 15 13:49:01 <mrmoku> TAsn: are you sure your suggestion regarding intone svn and trunk was correct?
May 15 13:49:15 <mrmoku> TAsn: it unpacks everything to the toplevel WORKDIR now...
May 15 13:49:22 <mirko-paroli> alexxy: I was going to install that keyboard you mentioned to see how I can fix that, but so far didn't find the time
May 15 13:49:29 <alexxy> http://www.paroli-project.org/trac/ticket/138
May 15 13:49:37 <TAsn> mrmoku, weird.
May 15 13:49:45 <alexxy> also you should set your locale to unicode
May 15 13:49:46 <TAsn> mrmoku, ok, nvm my suggestions then.
May 15 13:49:49 <mirko-paroli> alexxy: so in short: yes I will do what I can to make that possble
May 15 13:50:21 <alexxy> mirko-paroli: also i have bug that if sim card is full of messages i cant recieve them anymore
May 15 13:50:30 <alexxy> but there no visual feedback
May 15 13:50:39 <mirko-paroli> alexxy: can you add that to trac
May 15 13:50:58 <alexxy> mirko-paroli: ok. also i add it to wiki
May 15 13:51:09 <mirko-paroli> super
May 15 13:51:10 <mirko-paroli> thx
May 15 13:51:12 <rhkfin> alexxy: to paroli-issues? Great :)
May 15 13:51:22 <alexxy> rhkfin: yep
May 15 13:51:40 <alexxy> mirko-paroli: also what about opimd backend?
May 15 13:52:04 <mirko-paroli> alexxy: if opimd is ready (which it isn't right now) and people are willing to help out on the paroli end, sure
May 15 13:52:05 <alexxy> as i understand current paroli stores its addressbook on ~/.parolli
May 15 13:53:10 <khiraly1> alexxy: What are the opimd advantages?
May 15 13:55:42 <DocScrutinizer> it's not "proprietary", i.e. part of framework
May 15 13:56:59 <mrmoku> TAsn: nvm... what *I* said... got confused with my OE trees... was building the wrong recipe :P
May 15 13:57:07 <TAsn> ok
May 15 13:57:13 <TAsn> Ainulindale, here?
May 15 13:58:00 <Ainulindale> yes
May 15 13:58:21 <DocScrutinizer> hey Ainulindale !! o/
May 15 13:58:28 <Ainulindale> hey
May 15 13:58:35 <TAsn> nvm
May 15 13:58:37 <dos1> khiraly1: i'm working on opimd
May 15 13:58:40 <TAsn> verified I had access to themes
May 15 13:58:46 <TAsn> will up a theme asap.
May 15 13:58:49 <dos1> khiraly1: and now i'm finishing Contacts domain
May 15 13:59:06 <TAsn> buttons look identical
May 15 13:59:24 <TAsn> everything else is close enough, or at least "in the spirit of e17"
May 15 14:00:37 <DocScrutinizer> look of buttons??? don't you guys have any *real* issues to fix? :-D
May 15 14:01:57 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: yes, we have. for example implementing Flying Spaghetti Monster flying on SHR desktop and eating sometimes some icons ;)
May 15 14:02:59 <DocScrutinizer> if it's just a "let's make the buttons' look correct" I feel very eager to test the current snapshot. lol - I would even bear with missing spaghetti monster :-)))
May 15 14:03:03 <max_posedon> mirko-paroli, Hi! where I can find bitbake file for paroli?
May 15 14:03:25 <mirko-paroli> max_posedon: nytowl should be able to point to that one quicker ;)
May 15 14:03:32 <CIA-75> SHR: 03tom 07shr-themes * r163b401139db 10/gtk/e17-lookalike/ (49 files in 13 dirs): Added a new gtk theme 'e17-lookalike'
May 15 14:03:52 <max_posedon> nytowl, hi!
May 15 14:03:58 <nytowl> hi max_posedon 
May 15 14:04:08 <dos1> i have adding new fields to existing contact implemented in opimd :)
May 15 14:04:17 <nytowl> max_posedon, its in recipes/openmoko-projects
May 15 14:04:25 <dos1> there is still one TODO:
May 15 14:04:27 <dos1>         # TODO: implement adding new data to backend, which doesn't incorporate contact data
May 15 14:04:27 <dos1>         # For instance: we have SIM contact with Name and Phone. We want to add "Birthday" field.
May 15 14:04:27 <dos1>         # opimd should then try to add "Birthday" field to default backend and then merge contacts.
May 15 14:04:41 <dos1> but it isn't critical i think
May 15 14:04:42 <dos1> ;)
May 15 14:05:26 <max_posedon> nytowl, could you remind me link to om2009 "oe fork"?
May 15 14:05:48 <max_posedon> I need that bitbake just as example
May 15 14:05:51 <khiraly1> dos1: and what are the backend? *SQL ?;)
May 15 14:06:14 <nytowl> max_posedon, http://cgit.openembedded.net/cgit.cgi?url=openembedded/log/&h=fso/milestone5.5
May 15 14:06:27 <max_posedon> thanks
May 15 14:08:01 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07framework * r409578e04178 10/framework/subsystems/opimd/ (4 files): opimd: implement adding new fields when updating existing contact
May 15 14:08:15 <dos1> khiraly1: for contacts now we have three backends: SIM, CSV and SQLite
May 15 14:08:36 <dos1> khiraly1: in shr-settings (or with mdbus :P) you can select default backend
May 15 14:09:36 <DocScrutinizer> dos1: wtf? no imap-backend? no ldap? OMG!!! :-)
May 15 14:09:50 <dos1> khiraly1: with messages there is only SIM backend right now (i have on my neo also SQLite done by Heinervdm, but it's untested as I didn't touch Messages domain at all yet)
May 15 14:09:52 <khiraly1> ldap is a musthave. With domains
May 15 14:09:54 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: write it! :)
May 15 14:10:05 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * rddba791589a4 10/ (5 files in 3 dirs): all: catch up with new patchset against posix.vapi
May 15 14:10:30 <DocScrutinizer> hehe, it's quite easy to predict next line on IRC sometimes ;-D
May 15 14:10:42 <Heinervdm> DocScrutinizer: it would be easy, if there is a disconneted IMAP class for phyton
May 15 14:11:02 <dos1> khiraly1: so write it ;) i'm only playing with opimd to get it working at all.
May 15 14:11:02 <khiraly1> dos1: and is opimd's job to synchronize (let's say) to gmail for example? (I dont know if an api exists for it)
May 15 14:11:19 <CIA-75> SHR: 03tom 07shr-themes * r8d262e74d071 10/gtk/ (98 files in 26 dirs): renamed the gtk theme to shr-theme-gtk-e17lookalike
May 15 14:11:37 <DocScrutinizer> khiraly1: exactly
May 15 14:11:57 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07cornucopia * r8546f3ff83c2 10/libfsoframework/vapi/posixextra.vapi: vapi: remove functions sent to patchset
May 15 14:12:11 <dos1> khiraly1: for synchronize you should use some script (with opimd it should be easy), but you can also write gmail backend for opimd and use contacts with it
May 15 14:12:24 <Heinervdm> DocScrutinizer: without cached IMAP it's not that nice, because you need a permanent connection to the imap server
May 15 14:12:48 <khiraly1> gmail has an addressbook. Does it have a public api for it? (so accessing it without a browser)
May 15 14:13:01 <DocScrutinizer> Heinervdm: I'm aware of this :-) anyway you're absolutely right
May 15 14:13:02 <dos1> khiraly1: dunno
May 15 14:13:14 <khiraly1> Heinervdm: what is really funny you took that seriously
May 15 14:13:23 <dos1> but... thinking about it
May 15 14:13:35 <khiraly1> I believe sqlite is even overkill for 20-30 contacts what I have as a geek;)
May 15 14:13:41 <Heinervdm> DocScrutinizer: I'm searching for this for some time, because i want to sync with kolab
May 15 14:13:42 <dos1> it should be possible to write backend, which can synchronize everything with gmail for example
May 15 14:14:15 <dos1> khiraly1: but for messages SQLite should be ok, as with 2007.2 I had ~5000 messages
May 15 14:14:22 <dos1> and it was sloooooooooow
May 15 14:14:36 <khiraly1> dos1: sms?
May 15 14:14:41 <dos1> khiraly1: yep
May 15 14:14:41 <khiraly1> 5000 sms? 
May 15 14:14:46 <DocScrutinizer> Kontact has a lot of resource backends. probably a good place to "steal" code/algo
May 15 14:15:07 <khiraly1> holy sh*t, what are you doing? some sort of sms-pr0n?;)
May 15 14:15:14 <Heinervdm> khiraly1: but sqlite is the easiest backend that can support everyting, sim and cvs can't do everything
May 15 14:15:50 <dos1> khiraly1: my girlfriend didn't have internet connection when I was using 2007.2, that's why ;)
May 15 14:16:20 * dos1 should start to read Messages domain code...
May 15 14:16:33 <DocScrutinizer> dos1: we should punish you by making you read loud all 5k sms ;-)
May 15 14:17:46 <dos1> DocScrutinizer: hehe. good that you don't understand polish ;)
May 15 14:19:45 * DocScrutinizer thinks dos1 had changed the wap config of his former cellphone from "data via GPRS" to "data via SMS"
May 15 14:20:09 <dos1> ;D
May 15 14:21:30 <DocScrutinizer> anybody ever seen this to be used in RL by a gsm-carrier?
May 15 14:21:49 <khiraly1> http://code.google.com/intl/hu-HU/apis/contacts/docs/1.0/developers_guide_python.html
May 15 14:21:50 <TAsn> dos1, as the main authority concerning bb
May 15 14:21:57 <TAsn> how do I just copy a dir ?
May 15 14:22:01 <khiraly1> ^^ google contacts python client library
May 15 14:22:17 <TAsn> I just want to copy the entire content of a repo to a dir in the target machine (i.e to the pki)
May 15 14:22:19 <TAsn> pkg*
May 15 14:22:30 <TAsn> any suggestions?
May 15 14:22:41 <dos1> TAsn: dunno. i'm really not bb guru :P
May 15 14:22:50 <TAsn> damn.
May 15 14:22:54 <TAsn> anyone? Ainulindale maybe?
May 15 14:23:28 <mrmoku> TAsn: look at the fso-specs recipe I did
May 15 14:23:39 <TAsn> ok, thanks.
May 15 14:23:57 <TAsn> hm.. where is it at?
May 15 14:24:00 <mrmoku> it is almost what you need... has an addition compile section though
May 15 14:24:06 <mrmoku> shr-overlay in freesmartphone
May 15 14:25:03 <TAsn> can't find it . ;\
May 15 14:25:48 <mrmoku> TAsn: http://git.shr-project.org/git/?p=shr-overlay.git;a=blob;f=openembedded/recipes/freesmartphone/fso-specs_git.bb;h=01159014fd6cd1f02e0d1d7d94732f1ec0f24e5f;hb=5234e6130e0b6674f0d3c1a77725455b516c4984
May 15 14:25:54 <mrmoku> you should pull from time to time ;)
May 15 14:25:54 <TAsn> thanks.
May 15 14:26:09 <TAsn> I just did a pull...
May 15 14:26:32 <TAsn> that's easy, thanks ;]
May 15 14:27:55 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07libgsm0710mux * re90f15e51657 10/ (4 files in 3 dirs): catch up with new vala posix patchset
May 15 14:29:11 <khiraly1> mickeyl: are you there?
May 15 14:29:18 <mickeyl> yes
May 15 14:29:41 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07fso-abyss * r8ce3c6e40c48 10/ (configure.ac vapi/posix.vapi vapi/posixextra.vapi): catch up with new vala posix patchset
May 15 14:29:48 <khiraly1> My problem, is when I call freerunner, the fso_triggers.py:on_signal runs three times
May 15 14:29:50 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07framework * red9619d31b75 10/framework/subsystems/opimd/pimd_messages.py: opimd: Messages: fix inconsistences with Contacts backend
May 15 14:29:55 <khiraly1> obviously it will cause problems
May 15 14:30:03 <mrmoku> arghh... any svn freak around... able to tell me how to get a appliable diff out of svn?
May 15 14:30:12 <TAsn> mrmobil, svn diff
May 15 14:30:14 <TAsn> ?
May 15 14:30:16 <khiraly1> a sec, and paste relevant frameworkd.log
May 15 14:30:17 <TAsn> mrmoku, *
May 15 14:30:36 <dos1> backend?
May 15 14:30:38 <dos1> ...
May 15 14:30:43 <dos1> s/backend/domain/
May 15 14:30:57 <TAsn> NOTE: <type 'exceptions.TypeError'>:cannot concatenate 'str' and 'EnumValue' objects while evaluating:
May 15 14:30:57 <TAsn> ${@bb.fetch.get_srcrev(d)}
May 15 14:30:57 <mrmoku> TAsn: yeah... but it produces a diff that does not work :(
May 15 14:31:00 <TAsn> ffs.
May 15 14:31:04 <dos1> i double checked diff between commits, but i didn't check commit message ;D
May 15 14:31:10 <mrmoku> TAsn: what project?
May 15 14:31:12 <TAsn> mrmoku, change the workdir/patch=?
May 15 14:31:25 <TAsn> mrmoku, shr-theme-gtk-e17lookalike
May 15 14:31:25 <TAsn> ;]
May 15 14:31:51 <mrmoku> TAsn: add a rev to the autorevs file
May 15 14:32:24 <mrmoku> 0002 mok@mrdenker[pts/9]:~/src/other/openmoko/intone.mok-> svn diff
May 15 14:32:24 <mrmoku> Index: src/gui.h
May 15 14:32:24 <mrmoku> ===================================================================
May 15 14:32:24 <mrmoku> --- src/gui.h	(Revision 4)
May 15 14:32:25 <mrmoku> +++ src/gui.h	(Arbeitskopie)
May 15 14:32:41 <mrmoku> is not usable by patch it seems
May 15 14:35:52 <TAsn> hm..
May 15 14:36:11 <TAsn> I think you are patching it from the wrong place
May 15 14:36:22 <TAsn> i.e, you miss the trunk/src/...
May 15 14:36:28 <TAsn> try svn diff from root svn dir
May 15 14:36:31 <TAsn> one before trunk
May 15 14:36:42 <TAsn> i.e get the dir containing trunk
May 15 14:37:04 <khiraly1> mickeyl: http://pastebin.com/m138376d4
May 15 14:37:05 <mrmoku> TAsn: have no trunk... neither on my local checkout nor in OE
May 15 14:37:27 <khiraly1> line 39, 47, 51
May 15 14:37:30 <TAsn> hm.. ok.
May 15 14:37:39 <TAsn> anyhow it seems like it's trying to patch from the wrong dir
May 15 14:37:40 <TAsn> ...
May 15 14:37:47 <khiraly1> I added some more debugging into the code, to see what happens.
May 15 14:37:58 <mickeyl> looks normal
May 15 14:38:12 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: there's a whole thread waiting for your answers :-)
May 15 14:38:15 <khiraly1> mickeyl: line 44 too?
May 15 14:38:16 <TAsn> what file are there in shr-unstable/tmp/work/.../intone.../ ?
May 15 14:38:38 <mickeyl> i'm not too familiar with the while rules
May 15 14:38:41 <khiraly1> It calls untrigger, although never called trigger. 
May 15 14:38:51 <mickeyl> but as per the specs, incoming will appear multiple times
May 15 14:39:17 <mickeyl> i don't know how this while stuff and calllistcontains rules works
May 15 14:39:20 <mickeyl> i need to look into that 
May 15 14:39:23 <mickeyl> can't comment beforehand
May 15 14:39:59 <khiraly1> and what calls CallStatusTrigger:on_signal exactly?
May 15 14:40:02 <khiraly1> ok.
May 15 14:40:31 <mrmoku> TAsn: guess OE is calling patch with -p1 ...
May 15 14:40:42 <TAsn> so force ;patch=0
May 15 14:40:55 <mickeyl> the dbus bindings call CallStatusTrigger:on_signal
May 15 14:41:04 <mrmoku> haha... and I thought patch=1 would be to turn patching on :P
May 15 14:41:04 <TAsn> SRC_URI = "file://file.patch;patch=0"
May 15 14:41:04 <mickeyl> as per the connection made with connect_to_signal
May 15 14:41:12 <mrmoku> TAsn: thanks :)
May 15 14:41:18 <TAsn> sure thing.
May 15 14:41:56 <khiraly1> mickeyl: and who are at the other end of dbus?
May 15 14:43:08 <mickeyl> frameworkd as well
May 15 14:43:14 <mickeyl> ogsmd, to be exact
May 15 14:43:50 <khiraly1> and what I fail to see, is how it changes the self.status variable. Because the first time it is "active", the second and third time it is "incoming"
May 15 14:45:57 <mrmoku> TAsn: does not work though ;)
May 15 14:46:16 <TAsn> patch=? is the parameter for the -p?
May 15 14:46:27 <TAsn> maybe that's not the solution to your particular problem ;]
May 15 14:47:07 <mrmoku> I tried applying it manually... works with -p0
May 15 14:47:29 * mrmoku goes back to OE manual
May 15 14:49:03 <TAsn> mrmoku, are you sure you are trying to patch it from the same place?
May 15 14:49:07 <TAsn> try adding
May 15 14:49:10 <mickeyl> add pnum=0
May 15 14:49:24 <mrmoku> mickeyl: ahh... thanks :)
May 15 14:49:30 <mrmoku> what is patch=0 for?
May 15 14:49:45 <mrmoku> didn't find an explanation in the manual
May 15 14:49:55 <TAsn> I swear I saw patch=0 somewhere and used it in my bb s ;]
May 15 14:51:40 <mickeyl> ptitjes: ok, i'm done with mickey/0.7/posix. Please do your magic, when you have a chance
May 15 14:52:31 <mrmoku> ptitjes: btw.... I got compiler/.libs/lt-valac: undefined symbol: vala_code_context_set_profile
May 15 14:53:08 <mickeyl> khiraly1: i try to take a look into that on weekend. please add any information you have to the FSO bug. thank
May 15 14:53:09 <mickeyl> s
May 15 14:53:36 <khiraly1> mickey_away: should I open an another bugreport in FSO?
May 15 14:53:37 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #444 (Profile persistance) created <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/444>
May 15 14:53:41 <khiraly1> and write a summary there?
May 15 14:54:21 <khiraly1> In the mean time I modified frameworkd, and it prints many more debug information. So when it happens next time to me, I can provide you more detailed bugreport
May 15 14:54:34 <mickey_away> khiraly1: yes, please
May 15 14:54:37 <mickey_away> thanks
May 15 14:54:39 <mickey_away> l8er
May 15 14:54:45 <khiraly1> ok
May 15 14:55:06 <khiraly1> Thank you very much. If this bug would be fixed, the freerunner would become a reliable phone
May 15 14:58:21 <mrmoku> TAsn: argh... patch applies now... but there is more stuff that does not compile :(
May 15 14:58:29 <TAsn> ;[
May 15 14:58:37 <TAsn> ok I need your guys help
May 15 14:58:50 <TAsn> how do I apply the gtk theme?
May 15 14:59:03 <TAsn> within the package?
May 15 14:59:26 <TAsn> or just install the theme and not care about anything else? <--- in my opinion, the proper behavior.
May 15 14:59:50 <mrmoku> TAsn: what do you mean with 'apply'?
May 15 14:59:57 <TAsn> chosen
May 15 15:00:14 <TAsn> because atm I only install it as a possibility
May 15 15:00:21 <TAsn> the user has to actually choose it.
May 15 15:00:26 <mrmoku> ahh... ok.. choose which theme to use...
May 15 15:00:41 <mrmoku> hmm... should be the default, no?
May 15 15:01:22 <TAsn> mrmoku, ok. so you want to change shr-config then?
May 15 15:02:20 <TAsn> ok
May 15 15:02:24 <TAsn> sounds reasonable enough.
May 15 15:02:29 <TAsn> so my job is done.
May 15 15:07:59 <CIA-75> SHR: 03tom 07shr-overlay * rcc6cb282caf3 10/openembedded/ (3 files in 2 dirs): added recipe for shr-theme-gtk-e17lookalike and added it to autorev
May 15 15:08:01 <mrmoku> TAsn: we have no config for gtk...
May 15 15:08:09 <mrmoku> think we use the om one...
May 15 15:08:27 <TAsn> mrmoku, yes we do
May 15 15:08:41 <TAsn> dos1 added the expander size fixed to /etc/gtkrc
May 15 15:08:49 <TAsn> bah /etc/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
May 15 15:08:58 <TAsn> so he must home some control over it.
May 15 15:09:18 <dos1> TAsn: it was from some trac ticket
May 15 15:09:29 <TAsn> I know, I wrote it.
May 15 15:09:39 <TAsn> I meant you can control /etc/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
May 15 15:10:05 <mrmoku> openembedded/recipes/images/shr-image.inc:    echo '{   ' >> ./etc/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
May 15 15:10:08 <mrmoku> openembedded/recipes/images/shr-image.inc:    echo '    GtkTreeView::expander-size = 40' >> ./etc/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
May 15 15:10:11 <mrmoku> openembedded/recipes/images/shr-image.inc:    echo '}' >> ./etc/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
May 15 15:10:14 <mrmoku> he controls do_rootfs for our image ;)
May 15 15:10:14 <TAsn> cool. ;]
May 15 15:10:23 <mrmoku> dirty... dirty ;)
May 15 15:10:27 <TAsn> yeah.
May 15 15:10:55 <mrmoku> TAsn: shouldn't we just drop the om one? and supply /etc/gtk-2.0/gtkrc with your package?
May 15 15:11:09 <TAsn> mrmoku, not with mine
May 15 15:11:13 <TAsn> this is a global file
May 15 15:11:21 <TAsn> people may want to mod it at their own will
May 15 15:11:42 <TAsn> I added my theme to /usr/share/themes/shr-theme-gtk...
May 15 15:12:35 <mrmoku> TAsn: ok, how is it called?
May 15 15:13:06 <TAsn> sec
May 15 15:13:32 <mrmoku> because we also do:
May 15 15:13:34 <mrmoku>     echo 'gtk-font-name = "Sans 5"' >> ./etc/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
May 15 15:13:34 <mrmoku>     echo 'gtk-theme-name = "openmoko-standard-2"' >> ./etc/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
May 15 15:13:37 <mrmoku>     echo 'gtk-icon-theme-name = "openmoko-standard"' >> ./etc/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
May 15 15:14:12 <BluesLee> mrmoku: i have always full gsm strength, is this a know bug?
May 15 15:14:35 <TAsn> ok
May 15 15:14:38 <TAsn> mrmoku, replace
May 15 15:14:38 <mrmoku> BluesLee: depends on how close to the transmitter you are ;)
May 15 15:14:42 <TAsn> echo 'gtk-theme-name = "openmoko-standard-2"' >> ./etc/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
May 15 15:14:43 <TAsn> with
May 15 15:14:56 <BluesLee> mrmoku: hehe
May 15 15:15:04 <TAsn> echo 'gtk-theme-name = "shr-theme-gtk-e17lookalike" >> ./etc/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
May 15 15:15:13 <TAsn> oops
May 15 15:15:16 <TAsn> dropped a '
May 15 15:15:16 <TAsn> ;]
May 15 15:15:20 <BluesLee> mrmoku: i have this all the time
May 15 15:15:20 <TAsn> but you got the idea.
May 15 15:15:47 <mrmoku> TAsn: think so :P
May 15 15:16:42 <BluesLee> mrmoku: no new images since some days ...
May 15 15:16:43 <TAsn> btw, there's a bug with the current package
May 15 15:16:47 <TAsn> so don't build it yet
May 15 15:16:53 <CIA-75> SHR: 03mok 07shr-overlay * r47b16fa0aad0 10/openembedded/recipes/images/shr-image.inc: shr-image: change the default gtk theme
May 15 15:16:53 <TAsn> will bump the rev and commit in a sec
May 15 15:16:57 <TAsn> just verifying
May 15 15:18:14 <TAsn> anyhow, the theme is good, though not yet perfect, will work on it tomorrow (hopefully)
May 15 15:18:51 <Ainulindale> Did you ask the users?
May 15 15:19:09 <TAsn> ask what?
May 15 15:19:17 <Ainulindale> Whether they'd like to change the theme
May 15 15:19:19 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: do you know any user not complaining about our gtk theme?
May 15 15:19:29 <TAsn> its a fix to a known issue
May 15 15:19:31 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: I don't know about any complaints either :-p
May 15 15:19:32 <TAsn> no one objected to
May 15 15:19:48 <Ainulindale> Well no one was asked
May 15 15:20:08 <Ainulindale> "Hey TAsn, I removed your commit access, I hope you agreed before I even asked you!"
May 15 15:20:12 <Ainulindale> :->
May 15 15:20:15 <TAsn> Ainulindale, have you read the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy?
May 15 15:20:29 <Ainulindale> Sigh'.
May 15 15:20:29 <TAsn> Ainulindale, I don't mind, that'll give me a lot of free time ;]
May 15 15:20:39 <Ainulindale> Asking that. To me.
May 15 15:20:47 <TAsn> http://shr.bearstech.com/trac/ticket/105
May 15 15:20:57 <TAsn> #105 0.5 y/o bug...
May 15 15:21:11 <TAsn> anyhow Ainulindale 
May 15 15:21:18 <TAsn> you don't need the users permission to add a feature
May 15 15:21:24 <TAsn> i.e usable and conforming theme
May 15 15:21:26 <Ainulindale> TAsn: the problem is always the matter of choice. Replacing without asking is bad :-)
May 15 15:21:36 <TAsn> especially not in the unstable branch.
May 15 15:21:36 <Ainulindale> So first, mail, asking if people object
May 15 15:21:38 <dos1> i saw many people complaining on default gtk theme
May 15 15:21:41 <Ainulindale> If no answer, then commit
May 15 15:21:45 <Ainulindale> But the question is mandatory
May 15 15:21:56 <TAsn> Ainulindale, first of all
May 15 15:21:58 <Ainulindale> dos1: that doesn't prevent the need to ask
May 15 15:22:02 <TAsn> no one committed it yet
May 15 15:22:08 <Ainulindale> 17:17:00 < CIA-75> SHR: mok shr-overlay * r47b16fa0aad0 /openembedded/recipes/images/shr-image.inc: shr-image: change the default gtk theme
May 15 15:22:11 <TAsn> no
May 15 15:22:19 <TAsn> that's just choosing this theme if installed
May 15 15:22:24 <TAsn> though it's not installed by default
May 15 15:22:30 <TAsn> with it being installed it's the same behavior
May 15 15:22:50 <BluesLee> mrmoku: which gtk theme?
May 15 15:22:55 <TAsn> so you "punished" us before we had the change to do the sin.
May 15 15:23:00 <Ainulindale> I didn't punish you :-)
May 15 15:23:12 <Ainulindale> I just asked whether you asked the users or not :-)
May 15 15:23:14 <BluesLee> dictator ...
May 15 15:23:20 <Ainulindale> I can't see why you feel punished, it was merely a question :-)
May 15 15:23:24 <TAsn> Ainulindale, you know what I meant.
May 15 15:23:30 <Ainulindale> Nope, I don't
May 15 15:23:36 <TAsn> bah, replace punished with accused
May 15 15:23:36 <TAsn> ;]
May 15 15:23:42 <Ainulindale> I didn't accuse anyone
May 15 15:23:51 <Ainulindale> If you feel punished or accused by the simple fact I'm doing what I'm there to do
May 15 15:23:52 <TAsn> anyhow, I don't think you should ask the users before doing everything you do
May 15 15:23:54 <Ainulindale> I can't help you with that
May 15 15:24:01 <Ainulindale> I'm here to ensure we keep SHR a community project
May 15 15:24:06 <BluesLee> tasn: i use this one http://www.suse-art.org/content/show.php/E17+B_and_W?content=95680
May 15 15:24:06 <Ainulindale> Driven by the needs and choices of the community
May 15 15:24:12 <TAsn> It is a community project
May 15 15:24:13 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: what TAsn means is... I'm for example working on the SMS receipt thingie right now... do I have to ask users to add that feature?
May 15 15:24:17 <Ainulindale> That goes with asking to the community about what they want
May 15 15:24:27 <dos1> mrmoku: SMS receipt?
May 15 15:24:28 <TAsn> Ainulindale, or what about fixing bugs?
May 15 15:24:29 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: I already made the distingo a while ago
May 15 15:24:35 <dos1> mrmoku: can you explain?
May 15 15:24:40 <Ainulindale> Fixing bugs, adding features is not the same as changing something which already exists
May 15 15:24:47 <Ainulindale> Especially something as visible as a theme
May 15 15:24:51 <Ainulindale> (or a ringtone, so to speak)
May 15 15:25:05 <TAsn> We are adding a working theme
May 15 15:25:08 <TAsn> this one doesn't.
May 15 15:25:08 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: and that is what TAsn said... there is no proper gtk theme now
May 15 15:25:12 <TAsn> this is a fix
May 15 15:25:17 <TAsn> and an addition
May 15 15:25:20 <TAsn> not a change ;]
May 15 15:25:27 <dos1> yep
May 15 15:25:31 <Ainulindale> Well I had no problem with the current theme myself
May 15 15:25:31 <BluesLee> Ainulindale: speaking as a user, the default shr gtk is sh...
May 15 15:25:40 <dos1> there is no gtk theme ATM ;)
May 15 15:25:47 <Ainulindale> Yes, that's why I liked it =)
May 15 15:25:53 <mrmoku> dos1: http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=specs.git;a=blob_plain;f=html/org.freesmartphone.GSM.SMS.html;hb=HEAD#IncomingMessageReceipt
May 15 15:25:53 <TAsn> BluesLee, why didn't you give me that link earlier?! ;]
May 15 15:25:59 <TAsn> anyhow, this is pretty similar to what I did.
May 15 15:26:04 <BluesLee> TAsn: good
May 15 15:26:04 <Ainulindale> TAsn: my point is
May 15 15:26:06 <Ainulindale> Don't play with words
May 15 15:26:08 <Ainulindale> you know what I mean
May 15 15:26:14 <Ainulindale> People were used to the UI look
May 15 15:26:18 <Ainulindale> If you change it they might dislike it
May 15 15:26:21 <dos1> mrmoku: oh! delivery reports?
May 15 15:26:23 <Ainulindale> Just ask
May 15 15:26:25 <Ainulindale> It's free
May 15 15:26:27 <mrmoku> dos1: yep
May 15 15:26:28 <TAsn> Ainulindale, it's not free
May 15 15:26:31 <TAsn> it's time consuming
May 15 15:26:32 <Ainulindale> And worst case scenario it'll be informative
May 15 15:26:42 <Ainulindale> TAsn: *sigh*
May 15 15:26:42 <TAsn> especially since it's a followup to a bug report.
May 15 15:26:56 <BluesLee> the gtk one should harmonize with the rest
May 15 15:27:01 <BluesLee> so its a good idea
May 15 15:27:05 <TAsn> Ainulindale, exactly
May 15 15:27:06 <Ainulindale> TAsn: I don't care if it's a follow up
May 15 15:27:08 <BluesLee> to do it
May 15 15:27:16 <Ainulindale> If there is a bug report about the ringtone I won't "fix" it
May 15 15:27:18 <TAsn> Ainulindale, ok, fine.
May 15 15:27:18 <Ainulindale> I will ask first
May 15 15:27:21 <TAsn> anyone objecting?
May 15 15:27:25 <Ainulindale> On the ML.
May 15 15:27:29 <TAsn> why on the ML?
May 15 15:27:34 <Ainulindale> TAsn: Stop doing that, I ensure you you don't want to piss me off today
May 15 15:27:36 <TAsn> ;]
May 15 15:27:42 <Ainulindale> Because that's something everyone can read
May 15 15:27:47 <Ainulindale> I don't care if you think it's best or worst
May 15 15:27:50 <BluesLee> TAsn: can you upload screenshots of your gtk theme?
May 15 15:27:52 <Ainulindale> "you" isn't the good person here to judge
May 15 15:27:56 <TAsn> BluesLee, sec.
May 15 15:27:58 <Ainulindale> "The user" and "the community" is
May 15 15:28:11 <BluesLee> there is no "the user"
May 15 15:28:11 <Ainulindale> First, it's never bad to tell people what you want to do
May 15 15:28:18 <Ainulindale> Second, people might disagree
May 15 15:28:33 <Ainulindale> And if they agree you have one real argument anyway
May 15 15:28:39 <Ainulindale> So I can't see why it's so difficult to say on the ML
May 15 15:28:49 <Ainulindale> "We intend to put a default GTK theme: here is the screenshot, what do you think?"
May 15 15:28:55 <Ainulindale> Took me approximatively 15 seconds to type
May 15 15:28:59 <Ainulindale> with extra time to scratch my nose
May 15 15:29:00 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #438 (problem gnome-config->dbus) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/438#comment:2>
May 15 15:29:15 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: the problem is... if he asks *now* on the ML... he has to wait ... don't know how long to get answers...
May 15 15:29:33 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: I agree it is important for lots of stuff...
May 15 15:29:34 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: yes, and this is a good thing
May 15 15:29:39 <Ainulindale> (waiting)
May 15 15:29:42 <mrmoku> like TAsn did with the pythm/intone thing
May 15 15:29:45 <Ainulindale> Because meanwhile he'll test his stuff
May 15 15:29:56 <Ainulindale> Maybe ask other users to test it
May 15 15:30:02 <Ainulindale> And it won't impact on everyone
May 15 15:30:08 <BluesLee> i thought that tasn is the theme expert here
May 15 15:30:08 <Ainulindale> And people will be able to say "it'd be better this or that way"
May 15 15:30:26 <dos1> Ainulindale: some time ago i asked about including shr-splash in image as default. noone complained, and some people wanted to have it as default. so now can i set is as default in image? :P
May 15 15:30:34 <Ainulindale> dos1: yep
May 15 15:30:48 <Ainulindale> dos1: to me, if a thread dies, it's as good as an agreement
May 15 15:31:07 <m0nt0> dos1, yes, do that please :D
May 15 15:31:11 <Ainulindale> TAsn: Don't think that I think your work is shitty or anything
May 15 15:31:16 <Ainulindale> TAsn: I'll probably enjoy it
May 15 15:31:21 <TAsn> lol
May 15 15:31:28 <TAsn> sec let me read.
May 15 15:31:32 <Ainulindale> I just want to insist on the fact that we can't do what we want just because it seems obvious to us
May 15 15:31:42 <Ainulindale> If something seems obvious to me, it's not obvious to everyone
May 15 15:31:48 <Ainulindale> Else we'd have a ncurses UI library
May 15 15:32:01 <Ainulindale> (as the default library)
May 15 15:32:23 <BluesLee> why battery applet in the top shelf changed again?
May 15 15:32:26 <Ainulindale> "default" things, what we ship as a standard, has to be considered by everyone
May 15 15:32:34 <Ainulindale> No idea, I complained about that
May 15 15:32:43 <Ainulindale> As well as I complained about the change in the bindings
May 15 15:32:50 <Ainulindale> Though there was a reason for testing
May 15 15:32:50 <m0nt0> +1 for the default ncurses lib
May 15 15:33:16 <Ainulindale> TAsn: please also consider the managerial issue
May 15 15:33:24 <Ainulindale> If you want people to be part of what you do
May 15 15:33:27 <Ainulindale> And enjoy what you do
May 15 15:33:34 <Ainulindale> Please offer them the choice and the right to comment
May 15 15:33:40 <TAsn> Ainulindale, they can remove the theme
May 15 15:33:43 <TAsn> it's just a default...
May 15 15:33:50 <Ainulindale> This isn't the problem here
May 15 15:33:53 <dos1> BluesLee: it changed?
May 15 15:33:56 <Ainulindale> If they don't want it as a default they shouldn't have it
May 15 15:33:56 <BluesLee> TAsn: lets habe a look at it
May 15 15:34:04 <TAsn> BluesLee, sec, taking pics.
May 15 15:34:21 <Ainulindale> TAsn: By commiting something you think is good, even if it's truly good
May 15 15:34:26 <Ainulindale> If it impacts that much
May 15 15:34:30 <Ainulindale> You're imposing yourself on the others
May 15 15:34:33 <Ainulindale> IMHO, it's a bad thing
May 15 15:34:34 <BluesLee> dos1: yeah ... 2 months ago we had a simple one, now the green one
May 15 15:34:57 <Ainulindale> And as anyway I'm currently the leader, I'm telling you, it's a bad thing, please do a mail
May 15 15:35:00 <dos1> BluesLee: cause green is better :P do you have fat or slim one?
May 15 15:35:03 <Ainulindale> Even if I agree with you that we need a default theme
May 15 15:35:11 <Ainulindale> And even if I know it'll be commited in the near future anyway
May 15 15:35:20 <BluesLee> dos1: a fat one ... i mean i use my own one;-)
May 15 15:35:20 <dos1> BluesLee: if slim, it's everything ok. tap on it and you'll see why it is here :P
May 15 15:35:26 <mrmoku> BluesLee: the battery gadget style was discussed on the ML :P
May 15 15:35:28 <Ainulindale> It's my duty (often doodie) to tell you to ask
May 15 15:35:35 <TAsn> BluesLee, on pic is up.
May 15 15:35:55 <TAsn> *one
May 15 15:35:57 <TAsn> (scap)
May 15 15:36:02 <Ainulindale> It's horrid
May 15 15:36:05 <Ainulindale> It's in hebrew
May 15 15:36:59 <mrmoku> and a good example why the theme is a *fix* and not a *change* ;)
May 15 15:37:06 <TAsn> you know I like imposing rtl
May 15 15:37:07 <TAsn> ...
May 15 15:37:07 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: did you ever try to scroll in the phonelog?
May 15 15:37:14 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: I don't use the phonelog
May 15 15:38:06 <m0nt0> Ainulindale, what do u use? dbus-monitor --system? :D
May 15 15:38:14 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: don't try to convince me, you know I'll keep telling that in any case, this kind of thing needs to be told somewhere
May 15 15:38:17 <TAsn> mrmoku, that's another BUG!
May 15 15:38:18 <Ainulindale> It's good for you anyway
May 15 15:38:23 <TAsn> bah, we need pymokoui in the image already!
May 15 15:38:24 <TAsn> bah, we need pymokoui in the image already!
May 15 15:38:25 <Ainulindale> Because it'll publicize your work
May 15 15:38:32 <TAsn> pyphonelog is great with pymokoui!
May 15 15:38:41 <CIA-75> SHR: 03seba.dos1 07shr-overlay * r344f68ff963f 10/openembedded/recipes/tasks/task-shr-minimal.bb: task-shr-minimal: add shr-splash to images
May 15 15:38:42 <Ainulindale> TAsn: That's something different altogether, as it *adds* a feature :-)
May 15 15:38:42 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: I started doing that too btw....
May 15 15:38:44 <CIA-75> SHR: 03seba.dos1 07shr-overlay * r376c404e9b5d 10/openembedded/recipes/images/ (shr-image/boot/append-GTA02 shr-lite-image/boot/append-GTA02): shr-image, shr-lite-image: turn on splash by default
May 15 15:38:50 <Ainulindale> So I'll say, put it as a default
May 15 15:38:55 <mrmoku> though we have to find the correct balance
May 15 15:39:01 <TAsn> Ainulindale, no, I was talking about mrmoku's complaint about pyphonelog ;]
May 15 15:39:06 <Ainulindale> dos1: now you have to ask which splash should be used as the default :-)
May 15 15:39:20 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: yeah I know
May 15 15:39:23 <Ainulindale> That's why I'm saying
May 15 15:39:34 * mrmoku is pissed by intone code now :(
May 15 15:39:36 <Ainulindale> What changes looks, what might impact on working functionnalities or what the user can see or hear
May 15 15:39:39 <Ainulindale> This has to be talked about
May 15 15:39:47 <dos1> Ainulindale: shr-splash-theme-default :P which will be -simple with SHR logo
May 15 15:39:52 <dos1> Ainulindale: right now it's -simple
May 15 15:40:23 <dos1> i can't imagine -dontpanic as default... 
May 15 15:40:42 <Ainulindale> I'd rather have this one :-)
May 15 15:40:43 <Ainulindale> Which I have
May 15 15:40:44 * m0nt0 likes -dontpanic
May 15 15:40:49 <Ainulindale> That's why you should ask the question :-)
May 15 15:40:56 <tig|> speaking as a user here,  I would love to see any GTK theme apart from the default one on SHR as it makes each GTK app look like it was from the 90s :) 
May 15 15:41:35 <dos1> Ainulindale: i like -dontpanic too, and i'm using it on my neo... but as default there should be "SHR" text and SHR logo :P
May 15 15:41:38 <Ainulindale> Please say so on the ML when TAsn will have posted :-)
May 15 15:41:52 * tig| goes to sign up for the ML :) 
May 15 15:41:53 <Ainulindale> dos1: There "should be"? How can you be sure about that?
May 15 15:41:59 <Ainulindale> Can you read into users' minds? :-)
May 15 15:42:17 <dos1> Ainulindale: not everybody know what does that "DON'T PANIC" mean ;P
May 15 15:42:30 <Ainulindale> Everybody knows what a kernel panic is :-)
May 15 15:42:57 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: even your picasa using mother? :P
May 15 15:43:05 <dos1> that's why we shouldn't have kernel panics in SHR :D
May 15 15:43:14 <Ainulindale> dos1: ask the question, it's free :-)
May 15 15:43:21 <Ainulindale> TAsn: by the way kudos for the pythm/intone thread
May 15 15:43:24 <CIA-75> SHR: 03tom 07shr-overlay * rd0a3d0dd383a 10/openembedded/recipes/shr/ (shr-theme-gtk-e17lookalike_git.bb shr-theme-gtk.inc): fixed the gtk theme bb to the right patch
May 15 15:43:24 <CIA-75> SHR: 03tom 07shr-overlay * r6ac062a68a60 10/openembedded/recipes/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Merge branch 'master' of git+ssh://git@shr.bearstech.com/shr-overlay
May 15 15:43:28 <Ainulindale> That's what I'm talking about, bitch ! :-p
May 15 15:43:34 <TAsn> Ainulindale, btw, sorry about that.
May 15 15:43:38 <Ainulindale> about what?
May 15 15:43:46 <TAsn> not pulling before committing ;]
May 15 15:44:00 <TAsn> ^
May 15 15:44:02 <Ainulindale> Stop being sorry if I don't complain I don't care =)
May 15 15:44:05 <Ainulindale> (or didn't see)
May 15 15:44:09 <Ainulindale> even I forget some times
May 15 15:44:22 <Ainulindale> As magnificient as I am :-:)
May 15 15:44:34 <TAsn> lol.
May 15 15:44:39 <mrmoku> what shall I do about intone... 
May 15 15:44:53 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: w.r.t the default image you mean?
May 15 15:44:55 <mrmoku> somehow I have the impression the google svn is not updtodate...
May 15 15:45:06 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: no... making it build in the first place :P
May 15 15:45:15 <mrmoku> it is full of simple stupid compile errors
May 15 15:45:24 <BluesLee> TAsn: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/594f33fc7c1473488b9e24f577c4dbfd.png
May 15 15:45:36 <TAsn> bah, one issue I can't solve about the theme though ;\
May 15 15:46:01 <TAsn> BluesLee, that's the correct behavior?
May 15 15:46:20 <BluesLee> TAsn: thats the one i use
May 15 15:46:31 <dos1> B&W?
May 15 15:46:31 <TAsn> I don't really know how e does tabs
May 15 15:46:33 <TAsn> and such.
May 15 15:46:48 <dos1> TAsn: you should look at that theme i think ;)
May 15 15:46:55 <mrmoku> lots of extern missing... is there some option to gcc to make them unneeded?
May 15 15:47:17 <TAsn> I worked mostly on usability less on looks.
May 15 15:48:10 <TAsn> ok, sec, will try to merge it.
May 15 15:48:55 <CIA-75> SHR: 03seba.dos1 07shr-overlay * r95c3a203e3ef 10/openembedded/recipes/shr/ (3 files): shr-splash-theme*: provide xsplash-vga.ppm in image
May 15 15:48:56 <CIA-75> SHR: 03seba.dos1 07shr-overlay * r1c5a39d804ba 10/openembedded/recipes/shr/ (shr-theme-gtk-e17lookalike_git.bb shr-theme-gtk.inc): Merge branch 'master' of git+ssh://git@shr.bearstech.com/shr-overlay
May 15 15:49:24 <dos1> in image?
May 15 15:49:29 * dos1 worries about himself
May 15 15:49:40 <dos1> s/image/package/
May 15 15:49:40 <dos1> ...
May 15 15:49:41 <TAsn> ok, I'm by no means an expert in gtk
May 15 15:49:41 <bzzbot> dos1 meant: in package?
May 15 15:49:54 <TAsn> but BluesLee this is a poorly written theme.
May 15 15:49:55 <TAsn> ;[
May 15 15:50:45 <TAsn> will take some artwork from it
May 15 15:50:49 <TAsn> though it's poorly written.
May 15 15:51:08 <TAsn> BluesLee, still here?
May 15 15:51:13 <BluesLee> i didnt wrote it
May 15 15:51:34 <TAsn> I know.
May 15 15:51:39 <BluesLee> but i saw need to change the default behaviour
May 15 15:51:41 <TAsn> do you have midori installed?
May 15 15:51:45 <BluesLee> yes
May 15 15:51:51 <TAsn> mind going to google?
May 15 15:51:57 <BluesLee> no
May 15 15:52:01 <BluesLee> one mo
May 15 15:52:16 <TAsn> cool, because I have an issue with the search button with my theme
May 15 15:52:21 <TAsn> it has black text
May 15 15:52:30 <TAsn> and etk background.
May 15 15:52:37 <BluesLee> i have the same issue with tangogps
May 15 15:52:44 <TAsn> it doesn't happen with other apps.
May 15 15:52:55 <TAsn> for example, pyphonelog, that's just odd.
May 15 15:52:56 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #438 (problem gnome-config->dbus) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/438#comment:3>
May 15 15:53:22 <BluesLee> tasn: whats the problem with black text?
May 15 15:53:49 <TAsn> I have black text on the search button
May 15 15:53:52 <BluesLee> TAsn: okay, here i have a white bg
May 15 15:54:04 <TAsn> scap please.
May 15 15:54:49 <BluesLee> one moment
May 15 15:55:02 <BluesLee> never used midori before, images are missing
May 15 15:57:11 <TAsn> for some reason midori won't listen to the gtkrc concerning the button text color.
May 15 15:57:26 <BluesLee> tasn: up
May 15 15:57:46 <TAsn> thanks
May 15 15:58:09 <TAsn> BluesLee, I need to see the search button ;]
May 15 16:00:17 <BluesLee> tasn: thats the same beviour as in tangogps you described above, black in etk bg
May 15 16:00:30 <BluesLee> unreadable
May 15 16:00:40 <BluesLee> more or less
May 15 16:00:54 <TAsn> trying to fix it...
May 15 16:01:28 <BluesLee> TAsn: one more up
May 15 16:01:53 <TAsn> thanks
May 15 16:02:04 <khiraly1> (17.19.33) TAsn: no one objected to <-- have a screenshot
May 15 16:02:07 <khiraly1> ?
May 15 16:02:23 <thrashold> Where does /usr/lib/enlightenment/modules/battery/linux-gnueabi-arm/batget get the battery status from?
May 15 16:04:52 <Weiss> thrashold: are you debugging "battery meter shows 33% when it's really full" bug? if so, talk to PaulFertser...
May 15 16:05:24 <thrashold> no, I'm trying to find out why it says my battery is not available (Debian)
May 15 16:06:26 <Weiss> ah, ok
May 15 16:06:42 <thrashold> It reads from /sys/class/power_supply/ac/type, /sys/class/power_supply/adapter/type, /sys/class/power_supply/usb/type and nothing else, so I'm trying to figure out what it should be reading from
May 15 16:07:04 <Weiss> if you have HAL installed, it'll try to get it from that (and break amusingly)
May 15 16:10:26 <thrashold> I'm probably missing some module loaded or something. But I don't know which.
May 15 16:13:01 <dos1> http://code.google.com/p/shrbluetooth/
May 15 16:13:05 <dos1> what is that? ;x
May 15 16:13:08 <wurp2|working> So, what's the status of shr-testing?  Is there a good release after 4/16?
May 15 16:13:49 <mrmoku> dos1: interesting...
May 15 16:14:00 <wurp2|working> dos1: Provide a scanner / configurator for bluetooth devices in the SHR distribution using FSO. 
May 15 16:14:03 <mrmoku> wurp2|working: we will do a new testing soon
May 15 16:14:03 <wurp2|working> ;-)
May 15 16:14:12 <wurp2|working> mrmoku: Woohoo!  thx
May 15 16:14:47 <wurp2|working> dos1: My question is, will it make my bt keyboard work again
May 15 16:14:48 <dos1> wurp2|working: i wanted some other infos ;) for example who is doing that...
May 15 16:15:01 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: what would you think to have links to the builddirs in addition to the rsynced stuff?
May 15 16:15:27 <tig|> wurp2|working:  I had my bluetooth kb working on a recent release of SHR had to connect it at the commandline though with hidd
May 15 16:15:27 <mrmoku> that would enable us to test upgrades... before making them public
May 15 16:15:51 <mrmoku> wow... intone finally built :P
May 15 16:16:04 <dos1> mrmoku, wurp2|working: looks like it's something based on shr-settings code
May 15 16:16:13 <Heinervdm> mrmoku: are the icons now within the svn?
May 15 16:16:17 * dos1 wonders why it isn't shr-settings module...
May 15 16:16:47 <mrmoku> Heinervdm: no... I extracted them from the opkg.org ipk ;)
May 15 16:16:54 <wurp2|working> tig|: Hmm, I tried my old hidd scripts, and they failed, and I tried the new dbus scripts, and fiddled with them, and couldn't get kbd input to be recognized
May 15 16:17:04 <TAsn> hm..
May 15 16:17:06 <TAsn> ok fixed tango
May 15 16:17:07 <wurp2|working> My next step was going to be trying bluez3
May 15 16:17:18 <Heinervdm> mrmoku: someone should write him an email
May 15 16:17:42 <tig|> wurp2|working: well I just did hidd - scan  iirc and it all lept into life (after turning on BT in SHR settings)
May 15 16:18:23 <tig|> the only problem I had was,  lost connection after suspend and typing did not stop the screen blanking 
May 15 16:18:31 <mrmoku> Heinervdm: I sent him a mail... more than a week ago
May 15 16:18:34 <mrmoku> no response
May 15 16:18:35 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: how would it allow us to do that?
May 15 16:19:15 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: have a link /var/www/shr.bearstech.com/shr-unstable-dev --> /home/shr/shr-unstable....
May 15 16:19:21 <mrmoku> then we can change the feed files and test
May 15 16:19:33 <Ainulindale> why not?
May 15 16:19:57 <mrmoku> will do that when updating testing then
May 15 16:20:01 <Heinervdm> mrmoku: how about asking him on the ML, if he wants to see intone in shr he has to make a consitent svn with images
May 15 16:20:29 <mrmoku> Heinervdm: care to do that?
May 15 16:21:35 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: and inform the ML before doing the link :P
May 15 16:21:47 <Ainulindale> this doesn't impair any functionnality
May 15 16:21:49 <Ainulindale> so don't be an ass :-)
May 15 16:21:57 <Ainulindale> (but mail the ML nonetheless to tell people)
May 15 16:22:55 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: well... it is visible... and I want to avoid that people switch to it and then complain that something broke
May 15 16:23:00 <mrmoku> (was talking seriously here)
May 15 16:23:14 <Ainulindale> yep :-)
May 15 16:25:38 <wurp2|working> tig|: I'll try it again.  Can you tell me what release of SHR you're using (approximately)?  And if you have a script for this, could you email it to me?
May 15 16:28:37 <CIA-75> SHR: 03ainulindale 07ophonekitd * r6df5582d50e9 10/ (9 files in 2 dirs): Harmonized names according to the software name (Ophonekitd). Didier might not agree but still, I'm ophonekitd daddy :-)
May 15 16:32:30 <tig|> wurp2|working: sent
May 15 16:43:23 <khiraly1> mickey_away: http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/435
May 15 16:44:12 <TAsn> ffs
May 15 16:44:25 <TAsn> does anyone know what webkit uses as a button widget?
May 15 16:44:32 <TAsn> and a label on a button widget?
May 15 16:51:06 <khiraly1> doh
May 15 16:51:44 <khiraly1> I hanged up, but the talk continued, and cant call the phone anymore. frameworkd just does not get the signal
May 15 16:54:10 <max_posedon> Ainulindale, mrmoku and others, 
May 15 16:54:16 <max_posedon> /dev/mmcblk0p2 on /media/mmcblk0p2 type ext2 (rw,sync,errors=continue) <-- WHY SYNC?!
May 15 16:56:45 <wurp2|working> max_posedon: My SHR testing install from April 16 is not sync (or at least not explicitly listed as sync in mount output)
May 15 16:57:08 <max_posedon> wurp2|working, have you 2 partitions on microsd, and shr installed on nand?
May 15 16:57:21 <wurp2|working> max_posedon: yep
May 15 16:57:27 <max_posedon> for some reason first partion mounted default(async)
May 15 16:57:38 <max_posedon> and what fs you use on mmcblk0p2
May 15 16:57:45 <wurp2|working> They're both ext2 (rw)
May 15 16:57:53 <Ainulindale> onen|openBmap ?
May 15 16:57:59 <max_posedon> I use shr-unstable from May 06(or smth like this)
May 15 16:57:59 <wurp2|working> ext2
May 15 16:58:19 <onen|openBmap> Ainulindale: hi. what?
May 15 17:15:10 <mwester> max_posedon:  it mounts it sync because the default for all angstrom-based distros is to be paranoid about removable media and SD cards are presumed to be removable media.
May 15 17:15:15 <mwester> Change it if you wish.
May 15 17:15:42 <max_posedon> I'll but I also think that shr need change it too
May 15 17:15:58 <max_posedon> SD cards isn't easy removable from neo
May 15 17:16:15 <max_posedon> also /dev/mmcblk0p1          /media/card    auto       defaults,async,noauto    0  0
May 15 17:16:20 <max_posedon> already in fstab
May 15 17:17:37 <mwester> max_posedon:  I think that this sort of issue is a good thing for a bug report so that it doesn't get forgotten when the final polish is put on the finished SHR release.
May 15 17:18:17 <max_posedon> ok, I'll create one; btw, do you remember my ubifs request?)
May 15 17:18:27 <mwester> yep.
May 15 17:18:33 <mwester> It's on a note here.
May 15 17:18:48 <max_posedon> fine, thanks
May 15 17:23:32 <dos1> TAsn: ping
May 15 17:23:33 <CIA-75> SHR: 03tom 07shr-themes * r19ac6689875a 10/gtk/shr-theme-gtk-e17lookalike/ (gtkcheckbutton gtknotebook gtkradiobutton): fixed the theme's issue with notebooks
May 15 17:23:38 <TAsn> dos1, ?
May 15 17:24:01 <TAsn> what's decided concerning the gtk theme?
May 15 17:24:08 <TAsn> Ainulindale, mrmoku dos1 ?
May 15 17:24:19 * mrmoku refuses to decide anything ;)
May 15 17:24:31 <TAsn> damn you!
May 15 17:24:32 <TAsn> ;]
May 15 17:24:37 <mrmoku> TAsn: if you don't want to... I will write a mail :)
May 15 17:24:52 <TAsn> please do ;]
May 15 17:24:53 <mrmoku> TAsn: btw... fixed intone :D
May 15 17:25:01 <TAsn> mrmoku, really? great! ;]
May 15 17:25:08 <TAsn> any responses to the intone mail?
May 15 17:25:09 <dos1> TAsn: http://openmoko.opendevice.org/~dos/pimm-gui.py
May 15 17:25:35 <dos1> TAsn: if it fails, run it by "./pimm-gui.py init"
May 15 17:25:38 <TAsn> mrmoku, btw, I upped a pic of tango and pyphonelog to scap, the pic of midori is not my theme.
May 15 17:25:49 <TAsn> dos1, sec... ;]
May 15 17:26:01 <mrmoku> TAsn: yep... all support the change... will do that
May 15 17:26:17 <TAsn> great ;]
May 15 17:26:25 <TAsn> please ask about gtk as well. ;]
May 15 17:26:28 <mrmoku> TAsn: nice
May 15 17:26:40 <TAsn> dos1, hm... I get a blank screen
May 15 17:26:43 <TAsn> is that good? ;]
May 15 17:26:51 <dos1> TAsn: init then ;)
May 15 17:26:57 <dos1> TAsn: it's normal
May 15 17:27:03 <dos1> as it's opimd feeded
May 15 17:27:12 <TAsn> oh, copying my contacts to opimd?
May 15 17:27:14 <dos1> and your opimd probably didn't init SIM messages
May 15 17:27:28 <dos1> TAsn: noooo
May 15 17:27:33 <TAsn> ohhh
May 15 17:27:33 <dos1> there is no copying
May 15 17:27:36 <TAsn> chat style
May 15 17:27:36 <TAsn> ;]
May 15 17:27:37 <dos1> just reading
May 15 17:27:38 <dos1> ;)
May 15 17:27:41 <TAsn> wait no
May 15 17:27:42 <TAsn> just sms ;]
May 15 17:27:53 <TAsn> but cool design ;]
May 15 17:27:55 <dos1> TAsn: right now, but it's easy to add chat style
May 15 17:28:03 <TAsn> although the text gets cut ;\
May 15 17:28:13 <dos1> gets cut?
May 15 17:28:17 <mrmoku> Heinervdm: thanks for writing the mail :)
May 15 17:28:19 <TAsn> one char on the right
May 15 17:28:41 <TAsn> it seems that the text balloon is too wide
May 15 17:28:45 <TAsn> and goes out of the screen
May 15 17:28:57 <TAsn> make it adapt to screen size, other than that, I like the design
May 15 17:28:58 <dos1> TAsn: i don't have that here
May 15 17:29:09 <TAsn> more than that, I want it already! ;]
May 15 17:29:10 <Heinervdm> mrmoku: :) now we have to wait for an anwser
May 15 17:29:16 <mrmoku> yep
May 15 17:29:25 <TAsn> dos1, I can scroll sideways to get there
May 15 17:29:35 <TAsn> but just make it adapt to window size
May 15 17:29:41 <Heinervdm> perhaps some people can write: yes we want it in shr, please do it ;)
May 15 17:29:45 <dos1> TAsn: check if you don't have some looooooooooooong word :P
May 15 17:29:57 <TAsn> I have text
May 15 17:30:10 <TAsn> long text
May 15 17:30:20 <TAsn> that doesn't break
May 15 17:30:26 <TAsn> though anyhow you should limit the width ;]
May 15 17:30:54 <dos1> TAsn: i think it's elementary job ;)
May 15 17:31:08 <TAsn> no, I think you should tell it not to expand the window size...
May 15 17:31:25 <TAsn> I can scroll inside the scrolled window
May 15 17:31:38 <TAsn> you should make it force no horizontal scroll.
May 15 17:31:38 <TAsn> ;]
May 15 17:32:03 <TAsn> btw, just a suggestion
May 15 17:32:04 <dos1> TAsn: a) there is no binding to force no horizontal scroll right now
May 15 17:32:10 <TAsn> dos1, ok.
May 15 17:32:11 <TAsn> ;]
May 15 17:32:19 <dos1> b) how to tell it not to expand window size?
May 15 17:32:23 <dos1> cut it?
May 15 17:32:33 <dos1> then other bubbles will have cutted text too...
May 15 17:32:38 <dos1> it's elementary job for me
May 15 17:32:55 <dos1> as i'm using AnchorBlock
May 15 17:33:10 <TAsn> dos1, just a suggestion, though since sms will be chat style per contact, maybe instead of having the name, just put the name in title and paint each text balloon differently
May 15 17:33:16 <TAsn> dos1, ok.
May 15 17:33:35 <TAsn> anyhow, it's great ;]
May 15 17:33:41 <dos1> TAsn: that's cosmetical changes ;)
May 15 17:33:56 <TAsn> I mean, you can drop the numbers 
May 15 17:34:01 <TAsn> (when you make it per contact)
May 15 17:34:10 <TAsn> and of course it's cosmetical ;]
May 15 17:34:17 <dos1> TAsn: you have numbers or names displayed?
May 15 17:34:27 <dos1> it should resolve contact name via opimd
May 15 17:34:37 <TAsn> dos1, numbers
May 15 17:34:40 <dos1> hmm
May 15 17:34:46 <TAsn> because the numbers are +972
May 15 17:34:48 <TAsn> and my contacts are not
May 15 17:34:50 <dos1> TAsn: ah
May 15 17:34:51 <TAsn> known bug.
May 15 17:34:54 <dos1> ok
May 15 17:35:12 <dos1> hmm
May 15 17:35:39 <TAsn> mrmoku, anyhow, before you send the theme mail
May 15 17:35:42 <TAsn> maybe build the pack
May 15 17:35:45 <TAsn> so they'll be able to try it.
May 15 17:36:52 <onen|openBmap> alphaone: shoragan: ping
May 15 17:37:43 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #445 (mounting microsd should be async by default) created <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/445>
May 15 17:38:02 <alphaone> onen|openBmap: Sorry, gotta go...
May 15 17:38:15 <onen|openBmap> alphaone: ok, see you later
May 15 17:38:27 <alphaone> onen|openBmap: I'll read backlog, though
May 15 17:38:44 <dos1> TAsn: updated, can you try now?
May 15 17:38:49 <dos1> (name resolving)
May 15 17:38:50 <onen|openBmap> alphaone: this can wait. We talk later.
May 15 17:39:46 <alphaone> okay
May 15 17:39:53 <TAsn> dos1, no go.
May 15 17:40:16 <TAsn> how many queries does it save?
May 15 17:40:53 <dos1> TAsn: oh, _limit=1... try again ;D
May 15 17:41:02 <dos1> TAsn: but don't do "init" second time
May 15 17:41:16 <dos1> only Contacts are fixed now for that :P in Messages, entries are duplicated then
May 15 17:41:35 <dos1> TAsn: queries?
May 15 17:41:52 <TAsn> Query: /org/freesmartphone/PIM/Messages/Queries/3
May 15 17:42:01 <TAsn> DocScrutinizer, no go.
May 15 17:42:03 <TAsn> oops
May 15 17:42:04 <dos1> TAsn: it's only debugging
May 15 17:42:05 <TAsn> dos1, no go.
May 15 17:42:13 <dos1> hmmmm
May 15 17:42:16 <TAsn> no, but it counts the queries I did
May 15 17:42:21 <TAsn> meaning it may save past results.
May 15 17:42:30 <DocScrutinizer> heh
May 15 17:43:18 <dos1> TAsn: no, trust me ;) it's opimd thing
May 15 17:43:18 <mrmoku> TAsn: too late :P
May 15 17:43:27 <TAsn> mrmoku, hehe ;]
May 15 17:43:32 <dos1> ah, i know
May 15 17:43:33 <TAsn> ok, nvm then.
May 15 17:44:08 <real_ate1> hey you guys!
May 15 17:44:47 <real_ate1> i'm having trouble building the Openmoko stuff and i was wondering if anyone has a ready made Virtual Appliance?
May 15 17:44:54 <real_ate1> would be really handy
May 15 17:45:38 <TAsn> hm.. does anyone know how to disable the text in the menus from the gtkrc?
May 15 17:45:57 <dos1> TAsn: try again :D
May 15 17:46:35 <CIA-75> SHR: 03mok 07shr-overlay * rf621407d9ed4 10/openembedded/recipes/intone/ (18 files in 2 dirs): intone: add the icons and patch it to build
May 15 17:46:36 <TAsn> dos1, broken.
May 15 17:46:37 <TAsn> you suck ;]
May 15 17:46:50 <dos1> TAsn: what broken?
May 15 17:46:56 <TAsn> no contacts
May 15 17:47:07 <dos1> only numbers?
May 15 17:47:52 <dos1> can you give me some example of number displayed in my app, and some number stored in your contacts?
May 15 17:49:58 <TAsn> dos1, pm
May 15 17:50:00 <Flyser> Weiss: ping?
May 15 17:50:40 <Weiss> Flyser: pong
May 15 17:51:15 <Flyser> Weiss: you are one of the glamo-drm developers right (are there multiple?^^)
May 15 17:51:32 <Weiss> yep
May 15 17:51:45 <PaulFertser> thrashold: hey
May 15 17:51:51 <onen|openBmap> anybody from neovento here?
May 15 17:51:56 <thrashold> PaulFertser: Yes? :)
May 15 17:51:59 <PaulFertser> thrashold: still interested about battery meter?
May 15 17:52:02 <khiraly1> mickeyl: I created http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/435 , I added a new bug with more debugging info. But I suspect (although the same symptom) maybe other cause
May 15 17:52:03 <dos1> mrmoku: "Ok. Done. Latest working code in the svn. All image files, icon and .desktop file in a directory called resources under trunk."
May 15 17:52:03 <Weiss> Flyser: there are a few others, i'm trying to help people become more active
May 15 17:52:05 <dos1> about intone
May 15 17:52:13 <thrashold> PaulFertser: Yes.
May 15 17:52:34 <Flyser> Weiss: I was just wondering ... this http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzI3Mw says that OpenGL ES 1.1 is designed for fixed function hardware. But you said Gallium3D would not work for fixed function hardware ...
May 15 17:52:45 <Flyser> okay
May 15 17:52:58 <khiraly1> s/new bug/new attachement/
May 15 17:52:58 <bzzbot> khiraly1 meant: mickeyl: I created http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/435 , I added a new attachement with more debugging info. But I suspect (although the same symptom) maybe other cause
May 15 17:53:10 <PaulFertser> shoragan: I can confirm that by following the wiki instructions i was able to use bluetooth (except that i used the same headset that doesn't emit any sound except amp noise when connected to my FR).
May 15 17:53:39 <TAsn> still doesn't work.
May 15 17:53:41 <TAsn> dos1, 
May 15 17:53:46 <PaulFertser> thrashold: hild sees three power_supplies that it thinks are batteries.
May 15 17:53:47 <thrashold> PaulFertser: I'm most interested in how does the battery meter get the battery status, and has the interface changed with recent kernels
May 15 17:53:58 <PaulFertser> thrashold: hald
May 15 17:54:02 <TAsn> dos1, please test it on your moko before making me upgrade ;]
May 15 17:54:15 <dos1> TAsn: on my moko it works ;)
May 15 17:54:23 <TAsn> try adding my number.
May 15 17:54:25 <Weiss> Flyser: what that message means is that there's now a component which turns OpenGL ES 1.1/2.0 into "Gallium-speak"
May 15 17:54:31 <TAsn> oh.
May 15 17:54:37 <TAsn> can't get +972
May 15 17:54:49 <TAsn> hm.. sucks ;]
May 15 17:54:58 <PaulFertser> thrashold: so, it's apm emulation, USB and the real battery. The real battery doesn't work because kernel driver lacks one node i don't remmbe.
May 15 17:55:16 <Weiss> Flyser: so the ES API is exposed and translated into Gallium intermediate stuff which then needs a programmable pipeline
May 15 17:55:16 <Flyser> I know, but what purpose would a OpenGL ES 1.1 state tracker serve, if gallium3d does not support fixed function hardware
May 15 17:56:27 <Weiss> i'm not entirely sure, but you can't really argue with "The new driver interface will assume the presence of programmable vertex/fragment shaders and flexible memory objects."...
May 15 17:56:54 <Weiss> or rather.. why is there a point to OpenGL < 2.0 now that we all mostly have programmable cards?
May 15 17:57:15 <thrashold> PaulFertser: The batget from my version of e17 doesn't seem to make dbus calls, connect to hald, the framework or whatever. It reads something from /sys. I probably have an old version... But it worked with an older kernel and gta01.
May 15 17:57:38 <PaulFertser> thrashold: no, it does.
May 15 17:58:00 <PaulFertser> thrashold: there's ever a setting it E settings whether to use hald or not.
May 15 17:58:35 <Flyser> Weiss: okay, nvm then^^
May 15 18:00:38 <TAsn> ffs I need a gtk+ expert
May 15 18:00:41 <TAsn> anyone up for the job?
May 15 18:01:35 <mrmoku> dos1: hehe, again worked an hour for nothing ;)
May 15 18:06:03 <thrashold> PaulFertser: Will try another week, probably. Took the battery out to restart E for the setting to take effect, and now I can't boot. :D
May 15 18:06:57 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: about intone
May 15 18:07:00 <Ainulindale> please wait until tomorrow
May 15 18:07:06 <Ainulindale> people may not see their mail in 5 hours
May 15 18:07:21 <Ainulindale> One day will not hurt
May 15 18:08:31 <khiraly1> hmm
May 15 18:10:35 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03seba.dos1 07framework * rf7442ac4c4ca 10/framework/subsystems/opimd/pimd_contacts.py: opimd: Contacts: use lower TRESHOLD to have better contact name resolving
May 15 18:10:39 <dos1> TAsn: fixed :)
May 15 18:10:47 <dos1> your example is working for me :)
May 15 18:12:21 <khiraly1> does people have stability issue with frameworkd or is it just me?
May 15 18:12:27 <TAsn> dos1, here it still doesn't.
May 15 18:13:02 <dos1> TAsn: look at commit :P
May 15 18:13:37 <ptitjes> hum still cannot remember which one Daniel is: alphaone|gone or shoragan ?
May 15 18:13:39 <ptitjes> sorry
May 15 18:13:43 <TAsn> dos1, ?
May 15 18:13:58 <dos1> TAsn: to get it working you need to have frameworkd updated
May 15 18:13:59 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: but you don't mind that I'm just trying to get it to build? :P
May 15 18:14:01 <PaulFertser> ptitjes: alphaone 
May 15 18:14:04 <TAsn> dos1, i c.
May 15 18:14:10 <ptitjes> thanks
May 15 18:14:15 <TAsn> ok, quick question just to know what you guys think
May 15 18:14:31 <ptitjes> alphaone|gone: can you ping me when you are back please
May 15 18:14:32 <TAsn> I want to make show_only_icons the default for the toolbar style in the gtk theme
May 15 18:14:38 <TAsn> saves a lot of screen space
May 15 18:14:44 <TAsn> and usually icons are intuitive
May 15 18:14:48 <TAsn> when there are no icons
May 15 18:14:53 <TAsn> the text is showed
May 15 18:14:57 <TAsn> should I make it default?
May 15 18:16:05 <TAsn> ok, no response = yes, I like it better ;]
May 15 18:17:02 <CIA-75> SHR: 03tom 07shr-themes * rfdb68a202ae0 10/gtk/shr-theme-gtk-e17lookalike/gtkrc: gtk theme now shows only icons in toolbar (no text)
May 15 18:17:58 <TAsn> now gtk apps are actually usable ;]
May 15 18:18:23 <TAsn> should probably send a mail to openmoko-community or something like that.
May 15 18:24:35 <khiraly1> TAsn: or just post some pictures
May 15 18:24:55 <TAsn> khiraly1, they are up in scap
May 15 18:25:03 <TAsn> everything but midori is me.
May 15 18:25:03 <khiraly1> scap?
May 15 18:25:07 <TAsn> even the one says tasn ;]
May 15 18:25:22 <TAsn> http://scap.linuxtogo.org/
May 15 18:25:38 <TAsn> also the shortom one isn't me
May 15 18:25:44 <mrmoku> nytowl: ping
May 15 18:25:45 <TAsn> just check using the shelf ;]
May 15 18:25:57 <TAsn> there are also pics in the second page.
May 15 18:25:59 <nytowl> mrmoku, whats up
May 15 18:26:13 <mrmoku> nytowl: regarding mokomaze... I think you're building 0.5.0
May 15 18:26:22 <TAsn> mrmoku, which do you think is better? (epdfview ws epdfview)
May 15 18:26:31 <mrmoku> TAsn: no idea
May 15 18:26:34 <TAsn> nytowl, and concerning callrec, you are building an old version
May 15 18:26:39 <dos1> http://openmoko.opendevice.org/~dos/opimd-resolve.py
May 15 18:26:40 <TAsn> mrmoku, look in scap...
May 15 18:26:46 <mrmoku> nytowl: that om projects download thingie is really strange
May 15 18:26:55 <dos1> simple python script to resolve numbers given in command line
May 15 18:26:59 <TAsn> dos1, I need to upgrade framework for that, right?
May 15 18:27:02 <mrmoku> the file name you give it does not matter... just the number before
May 15 18:27:03 <dos1> TAsn: yep
May 15 18:27:09 <nytowl> mrmoku, well the URL I had was supposed to be for 0.5.1 but the archive extract 0.5.0
May 15 18:27:13 <TAsn> dos1, is there a pack ready?
May 15 18:27:20 <dos1> TAsn: i don't think so
May 15 18:27:30 <dos1> but it's one line, you can change it by yourself
May 15 18:27:30 <TAsn> dos1, btw, look in scap, which do you think is better? (epdfview)
May 15 18:27:37 <TAsn> look at the saved screen estate.
May 15 18:27:46 <TAsn> dos1, what line what file?
May 15 18:27:51 <mrmoku> TAsn: the first one
May 15 18:28:01 <TAsn> small icons?
May 15 18:28:08 <TAsn> (i.e icons only)
May 15 18:28:17 <mrmoku> nytowl: the url with 781 in it will download 0.5.0 
May 15 18:28:28 <dos1> TAsn: http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=framework.git;a=commitdiff;h=f7442ac4c4cadcb0e346aefbec6763a8248680e7
May 15 18:29:01 <TAsn> thanks.
May 15 18:29:10 <mrmoku> nytowl: the correct number would be 813
May 15 18:29:24 <nytowl> mrmoku, thx I'll update the recipe
May 15 18:29:36 <mrmoku> nytowl: that thing was driving me mad ;) because you end up with a file named 0.5.1 but it contains 0.5.0
May 15 18:29:51 <mrmoku> and if you don't manually delete it from the download dir after fixing the number...
May 15 18:29:54 <mrmoku> it won't redownload
May 15 18:30:22 <TAsn> dos1, is there a way to restart only opimd?
May 15 18:30:23 <nytowl> yup , I guess I'll need to fixup the checksums too
May 15 18:30:32 <mrmoku> yup
May 15 18:30:33 <ptitjes> mickeyl: updated sorry for the timeout
May 15 18:30:37 <dos1> TAsn: no...
May 15 18:30:37 <TAsn> mrmoku, which is the first one? small or big icon?
May 15 18:30:41 <TAsn> dos1, sucks ;]
May 15 18:30:48 <mrmoku> TAsn: the one with out toolbar text
May 15 18:30:52 <mickeyl> ptitjes: no worries, thanks!
May 15 18:30:58 <TAsn> dos1, please review scap and say which you prefer
May 15 18:31:02 <TAsn> mrmoku, cool, thanks.
May 15 18:31:17 <dos1> i prefer that without text
May 15 18:31:21 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: btw, i've got a decent log proving that "didn't resume on incoming sms" problem is a simple frameworkd issue rather than kernel/hardware.
May 15 18:31:44 <TAsn> dos1, ok, done.
May 15 18:31:47 <TAsn> it's committed
May 15 18:32:12 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: great
May 15 18:32:22 <Ainulindale> 20:30:50 < TAsn> dos1, sucks ;]
May 15 18:32:22 <Ainulindale> 20:30:50 < TAsn> dos1, sucks ;]
May 15 18:32:25 <Ainulindale> Woups
May 15 18:32:27 <Ainulindale> I was saying
May 15 18:32:31 <Ainulindale> 20:30:50 < TAsn> dos1, sucks ;]
May 15 18:32:34 <Ainulindale> Couldn't agree more :-)
May 15 18:32:38 <TAsn> hehe ;]
May 15 18:33:06 <TAsn> Ainulindale, what do you think about the theme? (scap, everything with the grey shelf)
May 15 18:33:11 <CIA-75> SHR: 03mok 07shr-overlay * r5071ce08cd93 10/openembedded/recipes/mokomaze/ (5 files in 2 dirs): remove mokomaze ... is upstream
May 15 18:33:21 <CIA-75> SHR: 03mok 07shr-overlay * r6ca6675c778e 10/openembedded/recipes/omnewrotate/ (files/correct-sysfs-bl-path.patch omnewrotate_0.5.4.bb): remove omnewrotate... is upstream
May 15 18:33:33 <TAsn> dos1, btw, thanks again for the splash screen, it reminds me not to panic ;]
May 15 18:33:40 <Ainulindale> TAsn: I don't really care
May 15 18:33:45 <Ainulindale> TAsn: but I replied to the mail
May 15 18:33:53 <Ainulindale> (it's all the same to me)
May 15 18:34:14 <TAsn> nytowl, You aren't build the correct version of callrec, you are building an old one. ;\
May 15 18:36:56 <TAsn> ok, dos1 
May 15 18:37:05 <TAsn> now, after restarting it doesn't work at all.
May 15 18:37:22 <dos1> TAsn: have you done "init"?
May 15 18:37:23 <dos1> :P
May 15 18:37:27 <TAsn> yes
May 15 18:37:30 <dos1> hmm
May 15 18:37:34 <dos1> blank screen?
May 15 18:37:37 <TAsn> Numer of results: 0
May 15 18:38:01 <dos1> TAsn: can you see your messages in openmoko-messages3?
May 15 18:38:14 <TAsn> yes.
May 15 18:38:30 <dos1> TAsn: try to init again
May 15 18:38:50 <dos1> if it still doesn't work, do "cat /var/log/frameworkd.log | grep opimd" and pastebin it
May 15 18:38:55 <Ainulindale> TAsn: by the way by "I don't care" I meant "I have no freaking taste and my judgement is worth nothing"
May 15 18:39:01 <Ainulindale> Not "I don't care about your work"
May 15 18:39:13 <dos1> (i think i know what's the problem... i have fixed it for Contacts, but i didn't touch Messages yet :P)
May 15 18:39:55 <TAsn> Ainulindale, I don't care.
May 15 18:40:12 <Ainulindale> 'bout what?
May 15 18:40:36 <nytowl> TAsn, is the new recipe in shr ?
May 15 18:40:43 <mickeyl> PaulFertser: show us
May 15 18:40:48 <ptitjes> mrmoku: can you give your opinion about opening the ophonekitd architecture ?
May 15 18:41:12 <TAsn> nytowl, no
May 15 18:41:17 <TAsn> nytowl, I don't really know how to fix it
May 15 18:41:19 <PaulFertser> mickeyl: I'll do. :) Sure, i wanted to prepare a decent bugreport. I'll just pastebin the relevant part for now.
May 15 18:41:22 <TAsn> I just know what's wrong ;]
May 15 18:41:26 <mrmoku> ptitjes: ok... need a moment though
May 15 18:41:38 <Ainulindale> TAsn?
May 15 18:41:46 <TAsn> Ainulindale, about you not caring ;]
May 15 18:41:46 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: hey
May 15 18:41:46 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: btw I just thought that if you don't expect external apps but internal threads for UI, then the use case used as a base start point does not hold
May 15 18:41:50 <nytowl> TAsn, is there a new URL ?
May 15 18:41:56 <TAsn> nytowl, no, same url
May 15 18:42:01 <Ainulindale> mickeyl: please answer to the ML! :-)
May 15 18:42:06 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: which one?
May 15 18:42:06 <TAsn> projects openmoko
May 15 18:42:33 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: and say so on the ML =)
May 15 18:42:33 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: both Messages and Contacts will be threads of ophonekitd so there is no point to think for DBus API use for them
May 15 18:42:33 <TAsn> dos1, http://pastebin.com/m1cfa536a
May 15 18:42:42 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: you still don't get the point :-)
May 15 18:42:53 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: the DBus API is for the external point of view
May 15 18:42:53 <ptitjes> bip bip bip bip
May 15 18:42:59 <Ainulindale> That is: I'm an external app
May 15 18:43:03 <Ainulindale> ANd I want to use the phone toolkit
May 15 18:43:06 <Ainulindale> Regardless of what it is
May 15 18:43:13 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: yep so the use case served as an example by everyone on the thread don't hold
May 15 18:43:18 <Ainulindale> We're not talking about inter library communication here
May 15 18:43:29 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: yep so the use case served as an example by everyone on the thread don't hold
May 15 18:43:34 <Ainulindale> We're talking for example about "phonelog wants to launch contacts"
May 15 18:43:37 <Ainulindale> Nope
May 15 18:43:53 <Ainulindale> Show me how, and I'll break your argument into little shiny pieces :-)
May 15 18:44:10 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: in the thread peopl is talking about Messages launching Dialer
May 15 18:44:19 <Ainulindale> Yes?
May 15 18:44:22 <Ainulindale> So what?
May 15 18:44:31 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: And why phonelog should not be a thread
May 15 18:44:44 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: phonelog could be a thread, I'm talking about the present state
May 15 18:45:01 <ptitjes> so you would like all the phone stuff in a thread in the future
May 15 18:45:05 <ptitjes> where is the limit ?
May 15 18:45:07 <Ainulindale> not in a thread
May 15 18:45:10 <Ainulindale> in threads
May 15 18:45:15 <ptitjes> sory in the same process
May 15 18:45:16 <Ainulindale> the limit is the functional contexts we define
May 15 18:45:25 <PaulFertser> mickeyl: http://rafb.net/p/sHuoVa96.html
May 15 18:45:30 <Ainulindale> I see no point in having openvibe in a thread for instance
May 15 18:45:43 <Ainulindale> But I see a point in having a contacts manager in a thread
May 15 18:45:51 <Ainulindale> As the framework is done anyway
May 15 18:45:54 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: but if we add new functionnal contexts; then those will be additional threads, do I understand what you mean ?
May 15 18:46:21 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: The whole point of this discussion is to define the functional contexts in an exhaustive way
May 15 18:46:33 <Ainulindale> But all in all, if we were to add one, yes, it would be a new thread (if we do what I'm describing)
May 15 18:46:50 <dos1> TAsn: strange...
May 15 18:47:16 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: Please do a pro/cons list for processes, we'll see :-)
May 15 18:47:20 <Ainulindale> For the time being I see only cons
May 15 18:47:34 <ptitjes> what I'm doing currently
May 15 18:47:39 <Ainulindale> Gut
May 15 18:47:46 <ptitjes> and I see two much cons to your approach
May 15 18:47:50 <DocScrutinizer> *yawn* same old ainu/ptitjes story ;-D
May 15 18:47:57 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: then say so on the ML
May 15 18:47:59 <mrmoku> ptitjes: replied... though I fear you won't like it...
May 15 18:48:05 <Ainulindale> I'm happy to tell you you're wrong
May 15 18:48:09 <Ainulindale> It makes me feel warm inside :-)
May 15 18:48:54 <Ainulindale> (Just joking by the way)
May 15 18:49:00 <Ainulindale> (Making sure you get me :-) )
May 15 18:49:05 <mickeyl> PaulFertser: hmm?
May 15 18:49:08 <Ainulindale> And just making sure, for everyone
May 15 18:49:11 <Ainulindale> I don't think I'm überright
May 15 18:49:15 <Ainulindale> I just say what I think :-)
May 15 18:49:23 <mickeyl> PaulFertser: how does that indicate that it's not waking up on SMS due to frameworkd?
May 15 18:49:29 <DocScrutinizer> Ainulindale: *support*
May 15 18:49:31 <ptitjes> mrmoku: Ainulindale: if phonelog and all the actual SHR software goes in the same process, there is no point to dbus apis as we have no
May 15 18:49:35 <PaulFertser> mickeyl: it doesn't :)
May 15 18:49:40 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: you're wrong
May 15 18:49:50 <ptitjes> mrmoku: Ainulindale: so find uses cases first
May 15 18:49:56 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: third party app, say enotes, wants to associate a note to a contact
May 15 18:50:03 <Ainulindale> we do not plan to include it as is
May 15 18:50:09 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: so write thoses uses cases first
May 15 18:50:11 <Ainulindale> but with a dbus api it would be able to select a contact
May 15 18:50:11 <PaulFertser> mickeyl: the sms indication comes before the suspend but it suspends anyway and i know the message arrived only after resumeing for whatever reason.
May 15 18:50:14 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: I did, already
May 15 18:50:17 <Ainulindale> And I mailed them
May 15 18:50:22 <Ainulindale> You don't understand them I think
May 15 18:50:27 <Ainulindale> I'll explain that tomorrow face to face it'll be easier
May 15 18:50:28 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: we always spoke of those dbus api as being a mean for inter phone-app communication
May 15 18:50:35 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: nope
May 15 18:50:38 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: if now you say the contrary, then find uses cases
May 15 18:50:46 <Ainulindale> I never told so
May 15 18:50:52 <Ainulindale> Never told the contrary neither
May 15 18:51:01 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: race
May 15 18:51:36 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: probably exactly the way we talked about, no?
May 15 18:51:38 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: pointer for mail with uses cases about external apps ? please
May 15 18:52:02 <mickeyl> PaulFertser: aah, didn't spot the CMTI
May 15 18:52:04 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: yep :) but an easy one, exactly like we talked about, yes.
May 15 18:52:10 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: yes we spoke about when speaking of pyphonelog when it started all
May 15 18:52:10 <Ainulindale> Wow, it was a while ago, I don't know
May 15 18:52:29 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: I never thought it would be inter-phone app only, that's for sure
May 15 18:52:39 <Ainulindale> and the operative word here is *only*
May 15 18:52:45 <TAsn> I didn't read the discussion
May 15 18:52:45 <ptitjes> yep only
May 15 18:52:48 <Ainulindale> the whole point is to offer things for other apps
May 15 18:52:55 <TAsn> though I do think phonelog should be accesible to other apps.
May 15 18:52:59 <TAsn> accessible*
May 15 18:53:01 <Ainulindale> a collateral thing will be that it'll offer inter-phone messaging stuff
May 15 18:53:05 <mickeyl> PaulFertser: yes, that's the race condition I indicated last time we talked about that. there's a small window during preparing for suspend where that can happen. We can not remove the window, but we can make it even smaller by issuing +CNMI as the _first_ command during preparing for suspend. Open a ticket and i'll do that#
May 15 18:53:07 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: so this means you *also* thought it as a *possible* mean for inter-phone app
May 15 18:53:20 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: I thought it more as a consequence of the external API
May 15 18:53:56 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: so you aggree there is short path to open external phone-related UI processes
May 15 18:53:58 <PaulFertser> mirko-paroli: Why can't youcancel suspend?
May 15 18:54:17 <PaulFertser> mickey_away: ^^
May 15 18:54:27 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: I disagree with what I don't understand (e.g. your sentence =) )
May 15 18:54:45 <mirko-paroli> PaulFertser: ?
May 15 18:54:45 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: mickey_away: that's the core question :-D
May 15 18:54:48 <Ainulindale> Plus, again, I still see no point in having processes instead of threads
May 15 18:54:53 <Ainulindale> Show me why it'd be convenient
May 15 18:54:55 <Ainulindale> And we'll talkd
May 15 18:54:56 <mickey_away> i need to go now
May 15 18:54:57 <DocScrutinizer> mirko-paroli: was an oops
May 15 18:54:57 <Ainulindale> -d
May 15 18:54:58 <mickey_away> just one thing
May 15 18:55:01 <Ainulindale> For the time being I see no point
May 15 18:55:06 <mirko-paroli> DocScrutinizer: ah ok
May 15 18:55:10 <mickey_away> it is by design that a subsystem can't cancel a suspend request
May 15 18:55:13 <PaulFertser> mickey_away: i.e. after you flowcontrol the modem you process all the replies it sen.t
May 15 18:55:17 <PaulFertser> :(
May 15 18:55:20 <mickey_away> if you start to allow vetoing components against suspend, you open a can of worms
May 15 18:55:23 <PaulFertser> mickey_away: ok, will open o ticket.
May 15 18:55:30 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: I have to agree with ptitjes thought that talking dbus between two threads is nonsense...
May 15 18:55:32 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: we won't go far if you don't do a pro/cons list for your idea
May 15 18:55:33 <PaulFertser> Though i'm anti-race.
May 15 18:55:40 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: I never told it would be so :-)
May 15 18:55:43 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: if you thought it more as a consequence of the external API, then you must aggree with me that there is short path between the expected model with DBus API (already disgressed by pyphonelog)  to a model with some phones apps in their own process
May 15 18:55:47 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: just told it would be possible
May 15 18:56:23 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: having intra or extra API has no link with the matter here
May 15 18:56:23 <PaulFertser> mirko-paroli: sorry, hilighted you by mistake, ssh via gprs has too much latency. Well, while we're at it, i wish you a nice weekend ;)
May 15 18:56:31 <Ainulindale> Show me why it would be interesting to have specific processes here
May 15 18:56:34 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: mickey_away objection is valid. We need to think about this
May 15 18:56:34 <Ainulindale> And again, we'll talk
May 15 18:56:39 <Ainulindale> I just see more code to write
May 15 18:56:43 <Ainulindale> For no additional value
May 15 18:56:45 <mirko-paroli> PaulFertser: ah k, you also have a nice weekend :)
May 15 18:56:52 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: pyphonelog
May 15 18:57:08 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: the other way would be call py from c
May 15 18:57:09 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: write an example understandable by everyone with no context of this talk on the ML
May 15 18:57:25 <ptitjes> which is possible but also brings overhead, API confusion
May 15 18:57:29 <Ainulindale> Right now I'm a bit shaky, I feel ill
May 15 18:57:39 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: probably it's not an issue about canceling suspend, but rather one of suspend-ordering
May 15 18:57:48 <Ainulindale> We won't be able to exchange if you don't lay your thoughts down
May 15 18:58:12 <Ainulindale> I made my point: I see no pros in having different processes, show me why it would be interesting and I consider the thing :-)
May 15 18:58:14 <ptitjes> why should I defend a thing that is already here
May 15 18:58:24 <Ainulindale> It's not there else you wouldn't suggest it
May 15 18:58:36 <ptitjes> that was ironical ?
May 15 18:58:37 <dos1> if ptitjes idea allows us to have python phoneguis, i'm for it :P
May 15 18:58:42 <Ainulindale> Nope ptitjes 
May 15 18:58:55 <Ainulindale> You want different processes for phonegui, it's not the case right now
May 15 18:59:00 <Ainulindale> Show me why it'd be interesting
May 15 18:59:04 <ptitjes> dos1: yes using the same dbus api as every other apps
May 15 18:59:05 <Ainulindale> But right now I'm away I feel ill
May 15 18:59:10 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: correct suspend is as tricky as correct shutdown. See initscripts about sending sigkill to all processes not finished yet, after an arbitrary timespan
May 15 18:59:23 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: and dos1 remark would be possible with threaded thing too
May 15 18:59:26 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: it is the case as of now: pyphonelog
May 15 18:59:28 <Ainulindale> as I suggested at the beginning of the thread
May 15 18:59:31 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: write a mail
May 15 18:59:31 <Ainulindale> I'm off
May 15 18:59:41 <Ainulindale> I don't want to see you repeat over and over something you won't mail
May 15 18:59:44 <Ainulindale> So I'm waiting a mai
May 15 18:59:45 <Ainulindale> +l
May 15 18:59:45 <ptitjes> no write a mail to defend in process python call
May 15 18:59:55 <Ainulindale> Then I disagree
May 15 19:00:04 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: i think we can have a flag that will signal that the actual suspend should be skipeed and frameworkd will "resum" properly.
May 15 19:00:10 <Ainulindale> No mail, no talk on my side
May 15 19:00:12 <Ainulindale> I'm away now
May 15 19:00:25 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: I meant you have to write a mail to defend in process python call
May 15 19:00:33 <Ainulindale> No
May 15 19:00:38 <Ainulindale> You have to write a mail to defend several processes
May 15 19:00:39 <ptitjes> I'll go the current design
May 15 19:00:45 <ptitjes> change it if you don't like it
May 15 19:00:50 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: yup, cancelling suspend is yet another thing than delaying it forever
May 15 19:00:53 <ptitjes> or defend another idea
May 15 19:00:59 <Ainulindale> Damn ptitjes will you stop being stubborn for one second?
May 15 19:01:04 <Ainulindale> You're suggesting to have different processes
May 15 19:01:08 <Ainulindale> Defend your idea or let it die
May 15 19:01:23 <ptitjes> nah it is already the case partly
May 15 19:01:25 <Ainulindale> No
May 15 19:01:28 <ptitjes> I don't have to defend it
May 15 19:01:36 <dos1> Ainulindale: he is defending: we will be able to have python phoneguis
May 15 19:01:38 <ptitjes> Else if you say it must change
May 15 19:01:40 <Ainulindale> Ok, idea refused then.
May 15 19:01:44 <ptitjes> then explain why it must change
May 15 19:01:54 <Ainulindale> You don't want to accept the fact that you need to explicit your views, then I veto it
May 15 19:02:00 <Ainulindale> Seriously, we won't go far with that
May 15 19:02:00 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: after all, a cancelled suspend should result in system up and running, and regularly sheduling another suspend eventually
May 15 19:02:01 <dos1> Ainulindale: so defend threads - how python phoneguis can be run in threads
May 15 19:02:09 <Ainulindale> dos1: it's possible easily
May 15 19:02:09 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: you don't explain yours
May 15 19:02:09 <CIA-75> SHR: 03mok 07shr-overlay * r47886d2528b0 10/openembedded/recipes/intone/ (18 files in 2 dirs): intone: remove icons ... upstream now :)
May 15 19:02:11 <Ainulindale> That's what fso does
May 15 19:02:14 <Ainulindale> (fsod)
May 15 19:02:22 <Ainulindale> I even worked with superkiddo to make it possible
May 15 19:02:26 <Ainulindale> Pretty easily
May 15 19:02:42 <Ainulindale> 'worked' is a big word here I just helped him
May 15 19:02:45 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: bah too much overhead with callbacks, etc...
May 15 19:02:53 <Ainulindale> Too much overhead with IPC
May 15 19:02:57 <PaulFertser> DocScrutinizer: that's the point. And i wouldn't have missed my SMS.
May 15 19:02:57 <Ainulindale> I can be telegraphic too
May 15 19:02:59 <PaulFertser> ;)
May 15 19:03:09 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: exactly
May 15 19:03:17 <Ainulindale> You don't explain the need for different processes, which you're suggesting
May 15 19:03:21 <Ainulindale> So I'm vetoing it
May 15 19:03:23 <Ainulindale> Explain it and we'll talk
May 15 19:03:28 <Ainulindale> And don't explain it here
May 15 19:03:33 <Ainulindale> Because I won't consider it
May 15 19:03:35 <ptitjes> the need is represented by the actual state of shr
May 15 19:03:38 <Ainulindale> No.
May 15 19:03:41 <ptitjes> there are multiple processes
May 15 19:03:45 <ptitjes> that's all
May 15 19:03:48 <Ainulindale> No there aren't
May 15 19:03:49 <DocScrutinizer> I think setting a flag that is tested and reacted upon in a atom sequence of code would do the trick
May 15 19:03:58 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: please yes there are
May 15 19:03:59 <Ainulindale> There is no multiple processes sharing the same API definitionb
May 15 19:04:00 <mrmoku> Ainulindale: ptitjes is refering to pyphonelog
May 15 19:04:01 <Ainulindale> No, they aren't
May 15 19:04:11 <ptitjes> mrmoku: I think he knows it :)
May 15 19:04:14 <Ainulindale> pyphonelog isn't based on a defined api instantied by ophonekitd
May 15 19:04:18 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: (sorry) I think setting a flag that is tested and reacted upon in a atom sequence of code would do the trick
May 15 19:04:23 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: two solutions
May 15 19:04:28 <Ainulindale> either you mail it and I'll answer
May 15 19:04:36 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: and what is phonelog.db then ?
May 15 19:04:39 <Ainulindale> Or you don't and I'll end up /ignoring you because you don't want to talk apparently
May 15 19:05:12 <Ainulindale> I'm tired, I said that several times, I don't have time to argue over the fact you don't accept to justify why you'd want to make a daemon distributed over different processes
May 15 19:05:24 <mrmoku> ptitjes: nah... would be exagerated to call shared data a api...
May 15 19:05:33 <mrmoku> /etc/resolv.conf is no api ;)
May 15 19:05:34 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: btw I already explained that in my first mail
May 15 19:05:39 <Ainulindale> No you didn't
May 15 19:05:59 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: see point 3 of my "preliminary|disclaimer notes for my proposal"
May 15 19:06:17 <Ainulindale> I'm talking about the several processes thread which has no link to this thread
May 15 19:06:23 <Ainulindale> Which is different altogether
May 15 19:06:26 <DocScrutinizer> who's afraid of Virginia Woolfe
May 15 19:06:29 <Ainulindale> Reply to my mail or leave it
May 15 19:07:06 <ptitjes> sure it has relation man, if you don't have a clear architecture, then there is no point defining dbus apis, because you don't know what are the dbus nodes.
May 15 19:07:21 <Deubeuliou> hi Didier
May 15 19:07:30 <mrmoku> ptitjes: me too would be interested in an example for a need of external processes...
May 15 19:07:31 <ptitjes> hello Deubeuliou 
May 15 19:07:52 <ptitjes> mrmoku: so a question: do you like the pyphonelog as it is ?
May 15 19:08:11 <ptitjes> or would you like it to be part of ophonekitd process ?
May 15 19:08:18 <ptitjes> I mean ideally in your thoughts
May 15 19:08:39 * dos1 would like to have opimd interface for phone log :P
May 15 19:08:54 <mrmoku> ptitjes: well (sorry TAsn) I don't like it as is
May 15 19:09:13 <mrmoku> I would want to completely rewrite it... and be integrated in ophonekitd
May 15 19:09:19 <ptitjes> ok this is what we must talk on ML
May 15 19:09:20 <dos1> and /me would like to see phone log as dbused ophonekitd part too
May 15 19:09:21 <TAsn> mrmoku, phponelog?
May 15 19:09:22 <ptitjes> first
May 15 19:09:34 <TAsn> dos1, same here.
May 15 19:09:39 <mrmoku> TAsn: yep
May 15 19:09:41 <Deubeuliou> ptitjes: after some tries on very sophisticated enconding and straming methods, setting an mpeg2 stream over http sent to the server which streams again as http is really simple
May 15 19:09:43 <TAsn> mrmoku, I hate it too
May 15 19:09:51 <TAsn> I mean, the GUI is great
May 15 19:09:56 <TAsn> I couldn't ask for anything more
May 15 19:10:05 <Deubeuliou> http://ail-isep.fr:8080
May 15 19:10:10 <TAsn> though it's written in python so it's slow
May 15 19:10:12 <Deubeuliou> only 3s delay
May 15 19:10:16 <ptitjes> dos1: do you have a use case of an external app that would be using such a dbusified phonelog ?
May 15 19:10:19 <TAsn> And I haven't given much time into making it faster anyway.
May 15 19:10:20 <TAsn> ;]
May 15 19:10:35 <mrmoku> TAsn: yep its slowness is the thing annoying me most
May 15 19:10:45 <TAsn> mrmoku, yep.
May 15 19:10:57 <ptitjes> Deubeuliou: would this fit people of Bearstech ?
May 15 19:10:58 <TAsn> though you gotta admit the iface and features are cool ;]
May 15 19:11:01 <mrmoku> ptitjes: and that would be another reason to have it as ophonekitd thread... it would launch really fast :)
May 15 19:11:03 <TAsn> (expanders and such)
May 15 19:11:29 <mrmoku> TAsn: how could I disagree :P
May 15 19:11:47 <Deubeuliou> ptitjes: yes, for sure. (I haven't tried with Lenny's vlc, though, but I'm quite sure it works like a charm)
May 15 19:11:57 <ptitjes> mrmoku: here I think you are not totaly right
May 15 19:11:59 <TAsn> mrmoku, ;]
May 15 19:12:06 <ptitjes> mrmoku: lauching sub processes is easy
May 15 19:12:09 <ptitjes> and fast
May 15 19:12:15 <ptitjes> as it is done once
May 15 19:12:28 <Deubeuliou> mplayer fails, though
May 15 19:12:49 <ptitjes> then Deubeuliou we go for it
May 15 19:12:55 <ptitjes> Deubeuliou: good work thanks
May 15 19:12:59 <mrmoku> ptitjes: maybe... but having to redo it anyway... no need for an external process
May 15 19:13:04 <ptitjes> Deubeuliou: so I must install VLS right ?
May 15 19:13:10 <Deubeuliou> VLC
May 15 19:13:19 <ptitjes> to emit ?
May 15 19:13:21 <Deubeuliou> vls is no longer maintained
May 15 19:13:28 <Deubeuliou> since 2004
May 15 19:13:29 <ptitjes> does it do V4L ?
May 15 19:13:34 <Deubeuliou> vlc ? yes
May 15 19:13:44 <Deubeuliou> I am streaming using it, curently
May 15 19:13:44 <ptitjes> for the firewire camera ?
May 15 19:13:58 <Deubeuliou> with my embeded webcam
May 15 19:14:07 <ptitjes> oki :)
May 15 19:14:09 <ptitjes> good
May 15 19:14:15 <Deubeuliou> I don't know, for the firewore camera. 'tis your part :)
May 15 19:14:36 <ptitjes> Deubeuliou: no probs -> stuff in the kernel
May 15 19:14:42 <Deubeuliou> ok
May 15 19:16:39 <ptitjes> mrmoku: don't you like it to be able to kill an app because it is a process ?
May 15 19:17:01 <ptitjes> mrmoku: also this is perfectly integrated with window managers
May 15 19:17:03 <BluesLee> TAsn: as i see you solved the black on "black" issue
May 15 19:17:11 <TAsn> BluesLee, ;]
May 15 19:17:12 <BluesLee> TAsn: good work
May 15 19:17:15 <TAsn> not in midori though
May 15 19:17:24 <TAsn> can't seem to find what gtk widget they are using
May 15 19:17:29 <TAsn> as a button
May 15 19:18:09 <TAsn> mrmoku, have you built intone yet?
May 15 19:18:20 <BluesLee> TAsn: it looks nice in tangogps but in the pdfviewer its suboptimal 
May 15 19:18:28 <TAsn> BluesLee, why?
May 15 19:18:37 <TAsn> (menu colors?)
May 15 19:18:46 <mrmoku> TAsn: I built it locally... tested it... comitted it... updated the buildhost...
May 15 19:18:52 <mrmoku> just to see the build fail :(
May 15 19:18:57 <TAsn> mrmoku, really? ;[
May 15 19:18:59 <TAsn> sucks. ;[
May 15 19:19:17 <TAsn> what a shame.
May 15 19:19:36 <Heinervdm> TAsn: where can i get your gtkrc?
May 15 19:19:41 <BluesLee> TAsn: okay, now i understand it
May 15 19:19:57 <TAsn> Heinervdm, sec
May 15 19:20:00 <TAsn> mrmoku, did you build my theme?
May 15 19:20:01 <BluesLee> TAsn: outblended text
May 15 19:20:21 <TAsn> BluesLee, yeah, text sucks, we don't need that to steal our space.
May 15 19:20:27 <mrmoku> TAsn: not yet
May 15 19:20:57 <mrmoku> ptitjes: I prefer to not have to kill them :P
May 15 19:21:01 <BluesLee> TAsn: but its readable, okay
May 15 19:21:09 <ptitjes> héhéhé
May 15 19:21:26 <ptitjes> mrmoku: you must have good programmers for this ;)
May 15 19:21:35 <TAsn> Heinervdm, ok, sec I'll up a copy
May 15 19:22:15 <Heinervdm> TAsn: thx
May 15 19:22:18 <ptitjes> mrmoku: heh I did not say that I just write buggy code!
May 15 19:22:24 <TAsn> Heinervdm, stostb.com/openmoko/shr-theme-gtk-e17lookalike.ipk
May 15 19:22:25 <Heinervdm> mrmoku: for me intone builds
May 15 19:22:41 <TAsn> Heinervdm, he said it builds locally but not up there
May 15 19:22:45 <mrmoku> Heinervdm: because you have autotools installed on your buildhost... which our buildhost does not have
May 15 19:22:49 <BluesLee> mrmoku: will intone become the default player?
May 15 19:23:05 <TAsn> mrmoku, mind pasting the configure log to pastebin
May 15 19:23:09 <TAsn> ?
May 15 19:23:18 <Heinervdm> mrmoku: ok, but there is an error, there is no icon on the desktop after building it
May 15 19:23:27 <BluesLee> did someone tried woosh?
May 15 19:23:34 <Heinervdm> BluesLee: yes
May 15 19:23:44 <Heinervdm> i've written a bb for it
May 15 19:23:47 <TAsn> Heinervdm, got the link?
May 15 19:23:48 <BluesLee> its very promising
May 15 19:23:58 <TAsn> BluesLee, isn't that just like midori?
May 15 19:23:59 <TAsn> webkit?
May 15 19:24:09 <BluesLee> i would say "just"
May 15 19:24:10 <Heinervdm> TAsn: yes, but opkg: invalid magic
May 15 19:24:32 <mrmoku> Heinervdm: hmm... I have an icon
May 15 19:24:46 <mrmoku> Heinervdm: when did you build it?
May 15 19:24:46 <BluesLee> TAsn: s/would/wouldnt
May 15 19:24:51 <TAsn> huh? weird
May 15 19:24:58 <Heinervdm> mrmoku: 30 Seconds ago
May 15 19:25:04 <BluesLee> TAsn: try it
May 15 19:25:07 <TAsn> Heinervdm, try renaming it to shr-theme-gtk-e17lookalike_0.1-gitr27+fdb68a202ae0b51bc3b5d414600d123c7a23478c-r2_armv4t.ipk
May 15 19:25:11 <TAsn> BluesLee, sec.
May 15 19:25:25 <mrmoku> BluesLee: will see what people say on the list... up to now everybody is in favor of it
May 15 19:25:42 <Heinervdm> TAsn: no the link isn't correc, you gave me: http://stostb.com/openmoko/shr-theme-gtk-e17lookalike.ipk
May 15 19:26:05 <TAsn> Heinervdm, yes, I renamed it for easy access
May 15 19:26:12 <TAsn> try to rename it back to what I paste.
May 15 19:26:14 <BluesLee> TAsn: on which list? 
May 15 19:26:30 <mrmoku> TAsn: configure log?
May 15 19:26:30 <Heinervdm> TAsn: I can't download it ;)
May 15 19:26:38 <mrmoku> it is compile that is failing
May 15 19:26:39 <TAsn> Heinervdm, can't download what?
May 15 19:26:47 <mrmoku> make[2]: *** No rule to make target `INSTALL', needed by `all-am'.  Stop.
May 15 19:26:55 <Heinervdm> TAsn: the server isn't reachable for me
May 15 19:27:02 <TAsn> wget http://stostb.com/openmoko/shr-theme-gtk-e17lookalike.ipk && mv shr-theme-gtk-e17lookalike.ipk  shr-theme-gtk-e17lookalike_0.1-gitr27+fdb68a202ae0b51bc3b5d414600d123c7a23478c-r2_armv4t.ipk
May 15 19:27:17 <TAsn> mrmoku, weird.
May 15 19:27:31 <TAsn> wget http://stosb.com/openmoko/shr-theme-gtk-e17lookalike.ipk && mv shr-theme-gtk-e17lookalike.ipk  shr-theme-gtk-e17lookalike_0.1-gitr27+fdb68a202ae0b51bc3b5d414600d123c7a23478c-r2_armv4t.ipk
May 15 19:27:33 <TAsn> stosb.com
May 15 19:27:34 <TAsn> ;]
May 15 19:27:38 <Heinervdm> :)
May 15 19:27:46 <mrmoku> Heinervdm: btw. your java thingie is built... will be there with next rsync
May 15 19:27:56 <Heinervdm> mrmoku: thx
May 15 19:28:16 <mrmoku> TAsn: building your theme while thinking about intone
May 15 19:28:23 <TAsn> mrmoku, great ;]
May 15 19:28:24 <TAsn> thanks.
May 15 19:28:39 <TAsn> Heinervdm, after you install
May 15 19:28:41 <TAsn> switch to it
May 15 19:28:49 <TAsn> by editing /etc/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
May 15 19:28:53 <TAsn> changing the gtk-theme
May 15 19:29:01 <TAsn> to shr-theme-gtk-e17lookalike
May 15 19:30:14 <Heinervdm> TAsn: hmm, the Buttons are too big for woosh :D
May 15 19:30:23 <TAsn> scap please.
May 15 19:30:32 <TAsn> and tell me what buttons.
May 15 19:30:38 <TAsn> I don't think I changed the button sizes.
May 15 19:30:48 <TAsn> I don't remember I have anyway. ;]
May 15 19:31:23 <mirko-paroli> ptitjes: about F6N
May 15 19:31:31 <mirko-paroli> I won't make it
May 15 19:31:31 <ptitjes> 9
May 15 19:31:35 <ptitjes> no
May 15 19:31:39 <ptitjes> really ?
May 15 19:31:46 <mirko-paroli> ptitjes: I know it was 9 but that wouldn't have been fun :)
May 15 19:31:55 <Heinervdm> TAsn: Buttons with pictures on it, will look at the code which wiget 
May 15 19:32:17 <ptitjes> :(
May 15 19:32:18 <TAsn> Heinervdm, upload a pic to scap please.
May 15 19:32:55 <mirko-paroli> ptitjes: there is too much that I have to do so I can't really afford the trip
May 15 19:32:58 <Heinervdm> whats the packagename of this screen shot app`
May 15 19:33:06 <mirko-paroli> ptitjes: money and time-wise
May 15 19:33:08 <TAsn> gpe-scap
May 15 19:33:19 <ptitjes> yep
May 15 19:33:21 <mrmoku> Heinervdm: ok... synced
May 15 19:33:39 <Heinervdm> TAsn: mrmoku thx
May 15 19:33:52 <TAsn> Heinervdm, you want me to thank mrmoku ?
May 15 19:33:55 <TAsn> mrmoku, thanks. ;][
May 15 19:34:09 <TAsn> oh, you were thanking both of us, nvm.
May 15 19:34:15 <Heinervdm> yes ;)
May 15 19:34:43 <TAsn> Tab completion to 'Nick,' is nicer than 'Nick:' in my opinion ;]
May 15 19:35:04 <Deubeuliou> TAsn: +1
May 15 19:35:06 <Deubeuliou> ^^
May 15 19:35:42 <Heinervdm> TAsn: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/b4a4c13776889b38b32d426c55a3f8c5.png on the right side is 1 button missing
May 15 19:35:57 <TAsn> ok
May 15 19:36:00 <TAsn> this seems like toolbar icons
May 15 19:36:05 <TAsn> hm.. sec.
May 15 19:36:59 * mrmoku searches irssi docs to see if he can teach it to expand TAsn with , and the rest with : :P
May 15 19:37:40 <TAsn> hehe ;]
May 15 19:37:49 <playya> still no success with ewww and OEß
May 15 19:38:14 <TAsn> Heinervdm, 
May 15 19:38:37 <TAsn> nano -w /usr/share/themes/shr-theme-gtk-e17lookalike/gtk-2.0/gtkrc
May 15 19:38:58 <TAsn> goto to the line that has gtk-icon-sizes
May 15 19:39:10 <TAsn> and change the toolbar sizes (there are two kinds) to what you want
May 15 19:39:18 * mwester changes his tab completion character, in order to make TAsn happy. :p
May 15 19:39:30 <TAsn> and then restart whoosh to make sure it's fine.
May 15 19:39:36 <TAsn> mwester, you are also making Deubeuliou happy!
May 15 19:39:38 <TAsn> but thanks.
May 15 19:39:38 <TAsn> ;]
May 15 19:40:10 <BluesLee> when is the next image planned?
May 15 19:41:26 <Heinervdm> TAsn: makes no differents
May 15 19:41:28 <mwester> TAsn,  Deubeuliou - any day I can make multiple people happy with a singe action is a good day indeed.  :) 
May 15 19:41:41 <TAsn> Heinervdm, hm...
May 15 19:41:47 <TAsn> mwester, ;]
May 15 19:42:02 <TAsn> Heinervdm, 
May 15 19:42:03 <Heinervdm> button12 = gtk_button_new ();
May 15 19:42:04 <TAsn> ok
May 15 19:42:22 <Heinervdm> what's that for a button?
May 15 19:42:24 <TAsn> nano -w /usr/share/themes/shr-theme-gtk-e17lookalike/gtk-2.0/gtktoolbutton
May 15 19:42:34 <TAsn> and change x and y thickness
May 15 19:42:35 <TAsn> try that
May 15 19:43:43 <TAsn> ok, will change both values to 4
May 15 19:43:50 <TAsn> I think it'll solve that for you.
May 15 19:43:59 <Heinervdm> no :)
May 15 19:44:08 <TAsn> doesn't?
May 15 19:44:19 <Heinervdm> doesn't
May 15 19:44:33 <Heinervdm> restating the application is enough?
May 15 19:44:37 <TAsn> yes.
May 15 19:44:40 <Heinervdm> ok
May 15 19:45:43 <TAsn> that's odd.
May 15 19:45:46 <CIA-75> SHR: 03tom 07shr-themes * reaf86b0c7736 10/gtk/shr-theme-gtk-e17lookalike/gtktoolbutton: gtk theme save more screen space by changing the space between buttons in a toolbar
May 15 19:46:06 <TAsn> Heinervdm, ok, mind giving me a link to the code responsible for those buttons?
May 15 19:48:19 <Heinervdm> TAsn: http://pastebin.com/m470c9890
May 15 19:48:50 <Heinervdm> TAsn: or complete interface code: http://pastebin.com/m35a7e674
May 15 19:49:00 <TAsn> ok
May 15 19:49:02 <TAsn> Heinervdm, 
May 15 19:49:10 <TAsn> nano -w /usr/share/themes/shr-theme-gtk-e17lookalike/gtk-2.0/gtkbutton
May 15 19:49:15 <TAsn> swap 22 with 10
May 15 19:49:48 <Heinervdm>             border          = { 10, 10, 20, 20 }  ???
May 15 19:49:51 <TAsn> and tell whoever wrote that code, that when he's writing a toolbar, he should wrap it in a toolbar
May 15 19:49:54 <TAsn> Heinervdm, 
May 15 19:49:54 <TAsn> no
May 15 19:49:56 <TAsn> 22
May 15 19:49:59 <TAsn> not 20
May 15 19:50:18 <TAsn> xthickness
May 15 19:51:19 <CIA-75> SHR: 03tom 07shr-themes * r379736eb78aa 10/gtk/shr-theme-gtk-e17lookalike/gtkbutton: gtk theme: button min width is now 10, still easy to click and saves a lot of screen estate
May 15 19:51:44 <Heinervdm> TAsn: that's it :)
May 15 19:51:50 <TAsn> great ;]
May 15 19:51:58 <TAsn> (thought so, as I read the code snippet you gave me)
May 15 19:52:42 <Heinervdm> TAsn: I looked at this file before, but haven't that there is a xthinkness value :)
May 15 19:52:57 <TAsn> haven't noticed?
May 15 19:52:58 <TAsn> ;]
May 15 19:53:12 <TAsn> well, you are probably tired ;]
May 15 19:54:25 <Heinervdm> possible, forgetting words too ;)
May 15 20:07:58 <mrmoku> nytowl: great... just saw you fixed the scenarios :D thanks
May 15 20:08:21 <nytowl> mrmoku, np
May 15 20:09:12 <mrmoku> Heinervdm: did you build intone with the new shr.conf distro file? or with old autotools?
May 15 20:09:39 <Heinervdm> mrmoku: last make update was this morning
May 15 20:09:59 <mrmoku> Heinervdm: but did you change conf/auto.conf to change the DISTRO from openemoko to shr?
May 15 20:10:53 <Heinervdm> mrmoku: no
May 15 20:11:43 <mrmoku> ok, thanks
May 15 20:22:00 <Heinervdm> mrmoku: should i do that?
May 15 20:22:51 <mrmoku> Heinervdm: writing a mail to shr-devel now... regarding shr.conf
May 15 20:22:58 <Heinervdm> ok
May 15 20:23:19 <mrmoku> I just wanted to know, if maybe intone does not build on the buildhost due to the older autotools... but not so... found (and hopefully fixed) the issu
May 15 20:23:23 <mrmoku> +e
May 15 20:35:42 <CIA-75> SHR: 03mok 07shr-overlay * r9a3a220f69aa 10/openembedded/recipes/intone/intone_svn.bb: intone: fix for buildhosts not having autotools installed
May 15 20:39:31 <CIA-75> SHR: 03mok 07shr-overlay * r16ebf0c4aca3 10/openembedded/conf/distro/include/shr-autorev-unstable.inc: autorev: switch back vala-native to pending-upstream-move
May 15 20:40:53 <SHR-WugBranler`> tracfeed: Ticket #444 (Profile persistance) updated <http://trac.shr-project.org/trac/ticket/444#comment:1>
May 15 20:52:13 <ptitjes> mrmoku: could you please tell me if you see the same thing here:
May 15 20:52:56 <ptitjes> http://git.shr-project.org/git/?p=shr.git;a=blob;f=ophonekitd/src/ophonekitd-dbus-usage.c;h=d4cf6f0531ed85f98cb88fbe73e31cb36e24441d;hb=HEAD#l73
May 15 20:53:52 <ptitjes> mrmoku: oh forget it, I'm not uptodate :)
May 15 20:54:08 <mrmoku> ptitjes: ok :)
May 15 20:54:46 <mrmoku> ptitjes: I'm still getting compiler/.libs/lt-valac: undefined symbol: vala_code_context_set_profile
May 15 20:54:53 <mrmoku> with pending-upstream-move...
May 15 20:55:12 <ptitjes> wow I don't know what it is
May 15 20:55:37 <ptitjes> ho yes it is the posix thingie
May 15 20:55:54 <ptitjes> mrmoku: but it does build here
May 15 20:56:30 <ptitjes> trying in oe
May 15 21:01:04 <mrmoku> ptitjes: read your mail... interesting points. Will have to think a little :P
May 15 21:01:58 <ptitjes> mrmoku: hum nothing yet :(
May 15 21:03:00 * ptitjes ^maj-T frenetically
May 15 21:06:01 <mrmoku> ptitjes: ?
May 15 21:06:43 <ptitjes> mrmoku: resource names in ousaged are enum values ?
May 15 21:07:01 <ptitjes> nothing on my mailbox
May 15 21:07:51 <ptitjes> mrmoku: do you speak about the Keep It Sophisticated and Smart ?
May 15 21:08:01 <mrmoku> ptitjes: well... have to re-read it twice, or even trice... think about it and respond then...
May 15 21:08:07 <mrmoku> that is the advantage of mail :)
May 15 21:08:26 <ptitjes> ?
May 15 21:08:35 <mrmoku> ptitjes: talking about *your* mail
May 15 21:08:52 <ptitjes> ohh
May 15 21:09:07 <ptitjes> mrmoku: I was thinking there was an interesting answer...
May 15 21:09:17 <ptitjes> oh thank you then
May 15 21:10:50 <ptitjes> oh yes they are an enum
May 15 21:11:04 <ptitjes> oh sheat I'm lazy
May 15 21:11:19 * ptitjes take a beer
May 15 21:12:31 * mrmoku has his second beer :P
May 15 21:13:04 <ptitjes> (shhh it is my first one ;))
May 15 21:13:19 <mrmoku> YEAH
May 15 21:13:27 <ptitjes> what ?
May 15 21:13:27 <mrmoku> TAsn: finally i got intone to build :)
May 15 21:13:37 <ptitjes> mrmoku: gobject-introspection builds
May 15 21:13:41 <ptitjes> ???
May 15 21:13:42 <ptitjes> :D
May 15 21:13:54 <ptitjes> arf
May 15 21:13:56 <ptitjes> :)
May 15 21:14:04 <mrmoku> ptitjes: what is the state on gobject-introspection? did you get somewhere?
May 15 21:14:08 <TAsn> mrmoku, hehe, grats ;]
May 15 21:14:25 <mrmoku> TAsn: building package-index now... and then sync :)
May 15 21:14:27 <ptitjes> mrmoku: naah. I'm writing mails and saying stupid things on the channel tonight
May 15 21:14:29 <ptitjes> :D
May 15 21:14:35 <TAsn> I'm fixing many issues with the theme atm ;]
May 15 21:14:57 <mrmoku> TAsn: if you want to listen to some music while doing that... opkg install intone ;)
May 15 21:15:16 <TAsn> ready?
May 15 21:15:18 <TAsn> ok, will do.
May 15 21:15:27 <mrmoku> ptitjes: I'm doing that every day... so don't worry :P
May 15 21:15:33 <mrmoku> TAsn: yep ready
May 15 21:17:35 <ptitjes> mrmoku: in fact I'm trying to implement shr.Usage, but I just realize I had to modify a xml in the fso specs to add the enumeration of resources, and then re-make everything
May 15 21:17:47 <ptitjes> mrmoku: I'm tired just to think of it so...
May 15 21:18:14 <ptitjes> mrmoku: prost
May 15 21:18:53 <ptitjes> arf and the error domain
May 15 21:20:34 <ptitjes> alphaone: ping
May 15 21:20:47 <alphaone> ptitjes: pong
May 15 21:20:53 <ptitjes> how are you ?
May 15 21:21:03 <alphaone> ptitjes: Fine and you?
May 15 21:21:08 <ptitjes> fine too
May 15 21:21:14 <alphaone> Lots of stuff to do, but other than that...
May 15 21:21:48 <ptitjes> alphaone: I want to tell you about "the Joint FSO|SHR test proposal"
May 15 21:22:06 <alphaone> ptitjes: Okay
May 15 21:22:31 <ptitjes> alphaone: do you know mock objects ?
May 15 21:22:55 <alphaone> in general
May 15 21:23:09 <ptitjes> so to be sure
May 15 21:23:42 <ptitjes> mock objects are object that implement a to-be-tested interface
May 15 21:23:45 <dos1> http://openmoko.opendevice.org/~dos/pim.py
May 15 21:23:53 <dos1> general rewrite
May 15 21:25:17 <ptitjes> alphaone: they have two states during their live
May 15 21:25:27 <ptitjes> alphaone: recording and replay states
May 15 21:25:40 <dos1> ok, going to sleep now
May 15 21:25:43 <dos1> godd night
May 15 21:25:43 <ptitjes> in the recording state, they record method call expectations
May 15 21:25:53 <TAsn> mrmoku, installed, thanks.
May 15 21:25:59 <TAsn> switched that and pythm in image?
May 15 21:26:29 <ptitjes> then in replay state, the if the methods are not called expectations are said to not be met, and the test fails
May 15 21:27:09 <ptitjes> alphaone: my idea was to make dbus mock objects
May 15 21:27:18 <alphaone> ptitjes: So you want the test objects to "learn" the right behaviour?
May 15 21:27:40 <ptitjes> alphaone: we could say that
May 15 21:28:24 <mirko-paroli> huh? why did dos1 go to sleep? I was just waking up
May 15 21:28:25 <ptitjes> alphaone: for an idea of how this renders in test case see 
May 15 21:29:01 <alphaone> mirko-paroli: Coincidence? I don't think so :-)
May 15 21:29:18 <mirko-paroli> alphaone: hehe I don't belive in "coincidence" ;)
May 15 21:29:22 <alphaone> ptitjes: Well, it sounds nice.
May 15 21:29:33 <alphaone> But when are they going to learn?
May 15 21:29:43 <ptitjes> alphaone: http://www.jmock.org/getting-started.html
May 15 21:30:09 <ptitjes> alphaone: in the test method you say
May 15 21:31:49 <ptitjes> alphaone: the api described here is better http://www.easymock.org/EasyMock2_4_Documentation.html
May 15 21:32:09 <mrmoku> TAsn: no, not yet... still waiting for more positive replies ;)
May 15 21:32:20 <mrmoku> will do so tomorrow :)
May 15 21:32:30 <TAsn> mrmoku, hehe, like I told Ainulindale it'll take forever ;][
May 15 21:32:32 <ptitjes> alphaone: go to chapter Usage it is two page long and is rather reading
May 15 21:33:24 <Ainulindale> TAsn: what?
May 15 21:33:37 <ptitjes> alphaone: and I said stupid things above
May 15 21:33:38 <Ainulindale> TAsn: answers for the GTK theme?
May 15 21:34:02 <TAsn> Ainulindale, I actually asked mrmoku about intone, which about I agree we should ask, though same will happen with the GTK theme ;]
May 15 21:35:14 <Ainulindale> TAsn: well intone is +1 everywhere
May 15 21:35:21 <Ainulindale> So I told him to wait until tomorrow for everyone to see
May 15 21:35:27 <Ainulindale> If no question then commit
May 15 21:35:42 <Ainulindale> With such an amount of answers, I think a 24h cycle is enough
May 15 21:35:44 <Ainulindale> Don't you think?
May 15 21:35:51 <ptitjes> alphaone: typical test case: you have mock objects of all the collaborators of the object to test, you call the method of the collaborators you think should be called in order, you set every mock objects in replay state, and then you call the method of the object to test
May 15 21:37:10 <Ainulindale> TAsn: saw piratebab comment?
May 15 21:37:17 <TAsn> Ainulindale, where?
May 15 21:37:27 <Ainulindale> TAsn: reply to the gtk theme thread
May 15 21:37:33 <Ainulindale> I think his point of view is of interest :-)
May 15 21:37:34 <mrmoku> TAsn: and the other comment about influence on scrolling?
May 15 21:37:39 <TAsn> (I'm not a member of shr-user)
May 15 21:37:39 <Ainulindale> (i.e. he disagrees)
May 15 21:37:47 <TAsn> mrmoku, what influence on scrolling?
May 15 21:37:53 <TAsn> bah, I should register
May 15 21:38:00 <alphaone> ptitjes: Oky
May 15 21:38:08 <TAsn> someone please forward it to tom@stosb.com
May 15 21:38:10 <Ainulindale> TAsn: http://lists.shr-project.org/pipermail/shr-user/2009-May/000221.html
May 15 21:38:13 <TAsn> nvm
May 15 21:38:14 <TAsn> ;]
May 15 21:38:18 <TAsn> Ainulindale, thanks.
May 15 21:38:25 <Ainulindale> Well it's just because you're pretty
May 15 21:38:31 <Ainulindale> If you weren't, I wouldn't have helped you
May 15 21:38:46 <TAsn> Ainulindale, his point isn't relevant
May 15 21:38:48 <Ainulindale> mrmoku: I like your distro mail very much
May 15 21:38:58 <TAsn> because this theme is to conform to the e17 theme
May 15 21:38:59 <alphaone> ptitjes: Okay, so basically that is testing the sequence of method calls
May 15 21:39:05 <alphaone> In our case dbus calls
May 15 21:39:07 <Ainulindale> TAsn: well it is somehow, as it raises the question of the theme altogether :-)
May 15 21:39:12 <ptitjes> alphaone: so my idea was to describe sequence diagrams around the fso apis in some XML files
May 15 21:39:20 <Ainulindale> Should we work on another theme? That is the interesting thing
May 15 21:39:38 <ptitjes> alphaone: that could be used as test scenarios for frameworkd
May 15 21:39:41 <TAsn> Ainulindale, relevant in general, not specific now.
May 15 21:39:42 <Ainulindale> A good answer would be "Ok, so the default theme isn't that good. Could we commit this one as the default gtk theme in between and work on a new one?"
May 15 21:39:44 <alphaone> ptitjes: I'm not sure if that is what we need..
May 15 21:39:49 <Ainulindale> TAsn: yep yep 
May 15 21:39:52 <ptitjes> or as mock behaviour for testing ophonekitd
May 15 21:39:59 <Ainulindale> TAsn: just an interesting point of view
May 15 21:40:01 <TAsn> Ainulindale, if he thinks so, he should open a bug and we'll do what we can.
May 15 21:40:03 <TAsn> Ainulindale, it is.
May 15 21:40:17 <Ainulindale> TAsn: that's why if I were you I would say what I just said
May 15 21:40:24 <alphaone> ptitjes: Well, you could probably cover some testcases with that
May 15 21:40:26 <Ainulindale> but as you didn't even subscribed to the ML, you son of cthulhu
May 15 21:40:36 <mrmoku> TAsn: he replied to me only...
May 15 21:40:37 <mrmoku> How does this theme affect the performance(scrolling, etc.) It could be
May 15 21:40:39 <mrmoku> a serious argument against the theme.
May 15 21:41:10 <alphaone> ptitjes: The problem I see is that there is no one right order for doing stuff in with the framework
May 15 21:41:17 <alphaone> Also often timing matters
May 15 21:41:21 <TAsn> mrmoku, haven't noticed anything weird
May 15 21:41:23 <alphaone> Which is bad
May 15 21:41:30 <TAsn> since I didn't theme anything scrollable
May 15 21:41:40 <alphaone> But we wont catch these problems that way, unfortunately
May 15 21:41:59 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: I find your answers a bit dry. You don't even tell why "No advantage over the libs"
May 15 21:42:28 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: I did that on purpose. This is strictly what you told before this mail
May 15 21:42:42 <Ainulindale> And you can see how it's useless.
May 15 21:42:58 <alphaone> i.e. today I tried sending an SMS to two recipients. The result was http://trac.freesmartphone.org/ticket/433
May 15 21:42:59 <Ainulindale> Anyway, to be more precise, what you're describing is doable as is using libs.
May 15 21:43:02 <Ainulindale> The same way.
May 15 21:43:28 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: you are really dry, those things I say are real things
May 15 21:43:35 <ptitjes> you can't that like that
May 15 21:43:45 <Ainulindale> I can't "that like that"?
May 15 21:43:55 <ptitjes> it's useless
May 15 21:44:11 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: so you want to cut with paroli, and all the other stuff around
May 15 21:44:12 <ptitjes> ?
May 15 21:44:22 <Ainulindale> I spent an hour trying to make you write this mail, while you were refusing just because you told it was necessary for ME to explain my position whereas YOU were suggesting something
May 15 21:44:38 <Ainulindale> I just tried to mimic your way with this mail, albeit in a mail
May 15 21:44:44 <Ainulindale> To make you feel what I feel when you refuse to explain yourself
May 15 21:45:13 <Ainulindale> And you still didn't get my point. WE don't have to comply to paroli. THEY have to comply to us.
May 15 21:45:14 <ptitjes> but you just do that every time
May 15 21:45:17 <Ainulindale> No
May 15 21:45:20 <Ainulindale> I ask questions
May 15 21:45:21 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: oh yes
May 15 21:45:25 <Ainulindale> You just don't answer to them
May 15 21:45:44 <Ainulindale> I have to ask you numerous times to answer to them
May 15 21:46:10 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: I do some other things and I don't have to justify myself
May 15 21:46:11 <Ainulindale> If you refuse to communicate, if you stand your ground thinking that it's right because it's yours
May 15 21:46:14 <Ainulindale> It's not discussion
May 15 21:46:22 <mirko> mickey_away: ping
May 15 21:46:30 <mirko-paroli> hi mirko
May 15 21:46:31 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: yes you have to justify yourself for your opinions
May 15 21:46:32 <mirko-paroli> :)
May 15 21:46:49 <mirko> mirko-paroli: hey mirko :)
May 15 21:46:58 <mirko> mirko-paroli: we now have a nice bootsplash :)
May 15 21:46:59 <Ainulindale> If you think something is necessary, you have to say why, else it's worth as much as a peanut
May 15 21:47:08 <mirko-paroli> mirko: how's life? ah nice
May 15 21:47:11 <Ainulindale> Because I could say that a "do-it-all" app is necessary
May 15 21:47:18 <Ainulindale> Or that we should redevelop everything in caml
May 15 21:47:19 <mirko> life could be better - as always :)
May 15 21:47:22 <Ainulindale> Because it's "great!!!"
May 15 21:47:27 <Ainulindale> It's not an argument
May 15 21:47:29 <Ainulindale> It's just an opinion
May 15 21:47:35 <mirko-paroli> mirko: yeah, as always
May 15 21:47:38 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: I gave good arguments and you ignored them I'll show that on the ML
May 15 21:47:40 <ptitjes> good
May 15 21:47:41 <mirko-paroli> mirko: got an image soon?
May 15 21:47:59 <mirko> mirko-paroli: first have to resolve some dbus-fso-issues
May 15 21:48:03 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: No, I didn't ignore them. I just told you that what you were describing hold no advantage over the libs as it was doable with libs as well.
May 15 21:48:09 <mirko-paroli> mirko: don't we all ;)
May 15 21:48:10 <mirko> mirko-paroli: but yep - it'n on the way
May 15 21:48:13 <mirko> ;)
May 15 21:48:14 <mirko-paroli> nice
May 15 21:48:17 <Ainulindale> As I told you here too, and as you refused to listen here as well
May 15 21:48:23 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: "So would be the libs."
May 15 21:48:31 <mirko-paroli> mirko: do you ship the standard illume theme?
May 15 21:48:36 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: don't you have to comply to a set of prototypes ?
May 15 21:48:47 <ptitjes> which is binary api ?
May 15 21:48:50 <Ainulindale> Not necesarily
May 15 21:48:51 <mirko> mirko-paroli: if i don't get a better one - yeah, the default
May 15 21:48:53 <mirko-paroli> mirko: thought about getting back on creating a theme with paroli integrated rather than as a windowed app
May 15 21:48:55 <Ainulindale> +s
May 15 21:48:57 <ptitjes> hahahahahaha
May 15 21:49:05 <ptitjes> LOL
May 15 21:49:15 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: obviously, you didn't get a thing to the core of the problem
May 15 21:49:38 <mirko> mirko-paroli: ah, cool - keep me updated
May 15 21:49:39 <ptitjes> np
May 15 21:49:51 <mirko> certainly interested
May 15 21:50:03 <mirko-paroli> mirko: any color preference? how about the good old black(grey)/orange theme
May 15 21:50:18 <mirko> uh - which one? ^^
May 15 21:50:22 <mirko-paroli> hehe
May 15 21:50:32 <mirko-paroli> think it was om2008
May 15 21:50:47 <mirko-paroli> that came with a nice combination of grey and orange
May 15 21:51:04 <mirko> ok - ah i remember
May 15 21:51:08 <mirko-paroli> k we'll see
May 15 21:51:12 <mirko> my fr was shipped with these
May 15 21:51:21 <mirko-paroli> certainly needs some spiking, illume that is
May 15 21:51:27 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: it's simple, you just assume that what you think is the only viable solution. For once, try to think that other people might actually be right. It'd be a bit of fresh air.
May 15 21:51:35 <mirko-paroli> before I have to bow to Ainulindale and adhere to what he tells me
May 15 21:51:47 <Ainulindale> mirko-paroli: peh :-)
May 15 21:52:02 <mirko-paroli> don't get your hopes up Ainu
May 15 21:52:06 <mirko-paroli> ;)
May 15 21:52:14 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: you asked me for pros of external UI apps I gave some
May 15 21:52:21 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: what is your problem
May 15 21:52:22 <ptitjes> ?
May 15 21:52:26 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: there are not pros
May 15 21:52:32 <Ainulindale> As we can do that with libraries as well
May 15 21:52:34 <ptitjes> oh really ?
May 15 21:52:36 <ptitjes> no
May 15 21:52:38 <Ainulindale> There are not pros OVER libraries
May 15 21:52:39 <Ainulindale> Yes we can
May 15 21:52:42 <Ainulindale> (c)
May 15 21:52:56 <Ainulindale> mirko-paroli: we were talking about interoperability paroli / SHR dbus APIs
May 15 21:52:59 <mirko> mirko-paroli: i think we're within a hot discussion ^^
May 15 21:53:08 <Ainulindale> mirko-paroli: and I was saying that if you want to comply with SHR (paroli)
May 15 21:53:15 <Ainulindale> the relation is you complying with us, not the other way around
May 15 21:53:17 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: what do you do for app authors that don't want to comply to the ophonekitd library model ?
May 15 21:53:20 <Ainulindale> as we're building a new API from scratch
May 15 21:53:23 <mirko-paroli> Ainulindale: I got that part :)
May 15 21:53:27 <mirko> maybe so. can give me a hint: http://pastebin.com/m5e6b50fe - missing dbus policy-rules?
May 15 21:53:29 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: you should have answer to that in your reply
May 15 21:53:31 <Ainulindale> mirko-paroli: just making sure :-)
May 15 21:54:02 <mirko> brb
May 15 21:54:02 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: if they don't want to comply to that model, it's intentional and that means it shouldn't be run by ophonekitd altogether because there is a reason
May 15 21:54:04 <mirko-paroli> but honestly Ainulindale it should always be a give and take
May 15 21:54:15 <Ainulindale> you're looking too far for something not related at all with the matter at hand
May 15 21:54:16 <mirko-paroli> but anyhow, didn't mean to interupt your discussion
May 15 21:54:21 <Ainulindale> mirko-paroli: yes of course
May 15 21:54:23 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: you don't tell all the truth here
May 15 21:54:25 <Ainulindale> the provider always listens to the consumer
May 15 21:54:28 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: listen
May 15 21:54:32 <mirko-paroli> hrhr
May 15 21:54:39 <ptitjes> mirko-paroli: he wants you to be run inside ophonekitd as a library
May 15 21:54:41 <Ainulindale> If you say one more time I'm lying, trying to entice you or anything
May 15 21:54:47 <Ainulindale> I'll put you in ignorel ist once and for all
May 15 21:54:50 <Ainulindale> And remove all your accesses
May 15 21:54:54 <Ainulindale> You're really pissing me off now
May 15 21:54:58 <Ainulindale> I told you already, this is not a fight
May 15 21:55:02 <Ainulindale> You asked my opiniopn
May 15 21:55:04 <Ainulindale> I gave it
May 15 21:55:08 <Ainulindale> Now if you can't accept it
May 15 21:55:09 <Ainulindale> Stop talking to me
May 15 21:55:22 <Ainulindale> If you refuse systematically to accept the fact that people might disagree with you
May 15 21:55:26 <Ainulindale> Climb a mountain and work alone
May 15 21:55:56 <Ainulindale> But don't try to say you're justifying yourself when you don't want to even read other people's justifications
May 15 21:56:13 <ptitjes> mrmoku: could you please reply to the ML as you have seem to find some interesting points were said there ?
May 15 21:56:52 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: you refuse systematicaly too
May 15 21:57:05 <Ainulindale> Yeah that's why I agreed numerous times with other people
May 15 21:57:12 <Ainulindale> That's why there are 4 mails attesting that in the ML today
May 15 21:57:16 <Ainulindale> </irony>
May 15 21:57:17 <ptitjes> ok np
May 15 21:57:30 <mirko-paroli> k guys, may I just ask what you are arguing about ?
May 15 21:57:35 <ptitjes> I'll climb on the mountain and work alone
May 15 21:57:50 <mirko-paroli> this seems a bit extreme
May 15 21:58:39 <Ainulindale> mirko-paroli: well I'm tired, it's been 3 days of arguing, and whatever I'm saying, he will systematically disagree or refuse to explain himself or answer aside from the question, with profusion of technical details unrelated to the matter
May 15 21:58:47 <Ainulindale> After hours of arguing I'm really, reaaaaaaaally pissed
May 15 21:58:53 <ptitjes> mirko-paroli: I propose that external apps can implement some dbus services and use dbus services from ophonekitd
May 15 21:59:02 <ptitjes> mirko-paroli: and be completely integrated
May 15 21:59:05 * mickeyl recommends postponing this talk to after when we had time for the face2face meeting. 
May 15 21:59:09 <Ainulindale> The basics of the community work is to be able to exchange and talk. When one person refuses to do that, there is no communication, no talk, nothing
May 15 21:59:11 <mickeyl> mirko: ponjg
May 15 21:59:15 <TAsn> bah, I can't seem to manage to fix webkit ;\
May 15 21:59:29 <ptitjes> mirko-paroli: he says complete integration should libraries running inside ophonekitd process
May 15 22:00:05 <mirko> mickeyl: maybe you can give me a hint - I'm getting an accessdenied: http://pastebin.com/m5e6b50fe
May 15 22:00:09 <mirko-paroli> so in practical terms, just for my understanding here, what would I need to do to paroli's structure to have paroli running on shr?
May 15 22:00:16 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: reread your mail - you are constantly arguing at what I'm proposing
May 15 22:00:20 <mirko> mickeyl: same fso-version worked some time ago
May 15 22:00:28 <mickeyl> mirko: looks like you updated dbus
May 15 22:00:31 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: I proposed a lot, you argued a lot
May 15 22:00:36 <mirko> dbus was upgraded - yep
May 15 22:00:44 <DocMobilizer> STOP THIS NOW! :-(
May 15 22:00:47 <Ainulindale> Yeah, that's always my fault as I'm a bad boy
May 15 22:00:49 <mirko> but this looks like a nmissing policy to me
May 15 22:01:01 * mirko-paroli agrees with DocMobilizer
May 15 22:01:36 <mickeyl> mirko: move to the 1.2.4.6permissive or try the following config
May 15 22:02:05 <Ainulindale> mirko-paroli: merely to comply to the dbus methods and have a specific init method, nothing more
May 15 22:02:38 <mirko-paroli> hmm, so you want to init me ...
May 15 22:02:45 <Ainulindale> ahem :-)
May 15 22:02:46 <mirko-paroli> hmm
May 15 22:03:14 <mirko-paroli> and ptitjes suggests paroli should retain the right to just call a dbus method as an external app
May 15 22:03:37 <mirko-paroli> Ainulindale: I guess you know what I am thinking about that idea ;)
May 15 22:03:42 <Ainulindale> not at all
May 15 22:03:50 <Ainulindale> mirko-paroli: that's not that
May 15 22:03:55 <Ainulindale> it'd have to comply anyway
May 15 22:03:56 <Ainulindale> in both cases
May 15 22:04:03 <mirko> mickeyl: did they change the way of interpreting the policy-files?
May 15 22:04:07 <Ainulindale> in my case it'd be launched/preloaded using ophonekitd
May 15 22:04:08 <Ainulindale> that's all
May 15 22:04:12 <ptitjes> mirko-paroli: Ainulindale: running inside ophonekitd would require you to comply to C function prototypes, and have callbacks to ophonekitd...
May 15 22:04:20 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: wrong
May 15 22:04:30 <ptitjes> mirko-paroli: c-> python -> c
May 15 22:04:39 <mirko-paroli> ah 
May 15 22:04:43 <mirko-paroli> so one sec here
May 15 22:04:55 <mirko-paroli> what about fso ? where does that fit?
May 15 22:05:10 <ptitjes> as and additionnal dependency
May 15 22:05:23 <mirko-paroli> so ophonekitd runs on top of fso
May 15 22:05:31 <mirko-paroli> so paroli could simply talk to fso directly?
May 15 22:05:34 <ptitjes> mirko-paroli: you would run inside ophonekitd but still be client of fso through dbus
May 15 22:06:34 <ptitjes> mirko-paroli: my proposal is you run as a single apps and register services for any of the dbus api we define and call any of fso and ophonekitd bus api you want to use. point
May 15 22:06:51 <ptitjes> mirko-paroli: that is all through dbus and you are an autonomous app
May 15 22:07:34 <mirko-paroli> hmm
May 15 22:07:43 <mickeyl> mirko: yes
May 15 22:07:51 <mirko-paroli> isn't both doable at the same time?
May 15 22:08:02 <mirko-paroli> I would assume Ainulindale's way saves system resources
May 15 22:08:22 <Ainulindale> mirko-paroli: of course both are doable at the same time
May 15 22:08:26 <ptitjes> mirko-paroli: I propose to open enough to do both at the same time :)
May 15 22:08:38 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: won't you get that there is nothing to do?
May 15 22:08:51 <DocMobilizer> hey mirko-paroli, good point finally
May 15 22:08:56 <mickeyl> mirko: try whether http://pastebin.com/d417cfc04 may help
May 15 22:09:03 <Ainulindale> DocMobilizer: I told that a while ago you know :-)
May 15 22:09:05 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: you don't want to do both
May 15 22:09:25 <Ainulindale> yes because processes create more resources consumption, more overhead all in all
May 15 22:09:39 <ptitjes> so
May 15 22:09:40 <Ainulindale> And if you do non memory resident processes
May 15 22:09:40 <ptitjes> ...
May 15 22:09:42 <Ainulindale> You can't preload
May 15 22:09:50 <Ainulindale> And that's the freaking WHOLE point!
May 15 22:09:59 <Ainulindale> Preloading screens! Initiating toolkits!
May 15 22:10:06 <ptitjes> yes you can load apps in the backgrounf
May 15 22:10:11 <ptitjes> -f+d
May 15 22:10:20 <ptitjes> that is a bad point
May 15 22:10:36 <mirko-paroli> Ainulindale: if it slows down the system that bad users will not use external apps
May 15 22:10:46 <mirko-paroli> and devs like me will gladly integrate
May 15 22:10:55 <ptitjes> ha
May 15 22:11:01 <ptitjes> one that got my point
May 15 22:11:06 <Ainulindale> ...
May 15 22:11:17 <mirko-paroli> by not allowing this
May 15 22:11:23 <ptitjes> we have to do both else we cut with the community
May 15 22:11:36 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: this is the dumbest thing you said tonight
May 15 22:11:39 <mirko-paroli> you are telling me to piss of if I don't want to adapt
May 15 22:11:49 <Ainulindale> As the whole point is talking about what WE do as team for our inner libraries
May 15 22:11:54 <Ainulindale> and as dbus, by itself, already does that, and allows that
May 15 22:11:56 <ptitjes> mirko-paroli: I say the contrary
May 15 22:11:58 <Ainulindale> and as there is nothing to do
May 15 22:12:04 <ptitjes> mirko-paroli: I want that you have the choice
May 15 22:12:08 <ptitjes> and time
May 15 22:12:14 <mrmoku> ptitjes: why would you think it would not be possible with libs?
May 15 22:12:19 <Ainulindale> ptitjes: don't you get that he already has the choice because we use dbus?
May 15 22:12:30 <DocMobilizer> two options: either you agree to do both, or you consider mickeyl's suggestion and stop arguing
May 15 22:12:33 <ptitjes> mrmoku: it much more work
May 15 22:12:39 <Ainulindale> Will you stop two seconds and consider the scope of this thread which was considering SHR libraries?
May 15 22:12:48 <ptitjes> mrmoku: integrating through dbus can be made step by step
May 15 22:13:00 <Ainulindale> Or will you keep ignoring my remarks as you did for each arguments which was related to the conversation?
May 15 22:13:13 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: sorry ?
May 15 22:13:23 <ptitjes> Ainulindale: this is a work for SHR apps ?
May 15 22:13:27 <mirko-paroli> DocMobilizer: aren't they both saying that they want to do both ?
May 15 22:13:45 <Ainulindale> ...
May 15 22:13:47 <mirko-paroli> or in Ainulindale's case that both ways are doable anyhow ?
May 15 22:14:05 <DocMobilizer> yup, pending for *my* ignorelist now
May 15 22:14:29 <DocMobilizer> BOTH
May 15 22:14:41 <mickeyl> shoragan: ping
May 15 22:15:10 * mirko-paroli opens a package of toblerone and ponders on getting icy, sweet coffee
May 15 22:15:55 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03mickey 07framework * race2ab827183 10/framework/subsystems/ogsmd/ (gsm/channel.py modems/abstract/calling.py): ogsmd: repair damage done by 9c746079d020f483257c64200cd0e18ca8586f13. should fix #404
May 15 22:16:14 <DocMobilizer> mirko-paroli: err, rain an 12C here
May 15 22:16:31 * mirko wanna have toblerone, too!
May 15 22:16:38 <mirko-paroli> DocMobilizer: got some 16 - 18 here
May 15 22:16:48 <mirko-paroli> I love this time of day, actually nice, fresh air
May 15 22:17:05 * mirko-paroli gives a piece of Tobl to mirko
May 15 22:17:35 <mirko> *mampf*
May 15 22:17:40 <mirko-paroli> hrhr
May 15 22:18:59 <wurp2|working> +
May 15 22:19:02 <DocMobilizer> mirko-paroli: have a walk top tigerhill. awesome at this time
May 15 22:19:11 <wurp2|working> er, my hand hit the number pad
May 15 22:19:17 <mirko-paroli> DocMobilizer: that is on the other side of town
May 15 22:19:37 <DocMobilizer> take a taxi
May 15 22:20:50 <mirko-paroli> hehe
May 15 22:20:53 <mirko-paroli> nah
May 15 22:20:58 <mirko-paroli> got keyboard issues to solve :)
May 15 22:26:27 <DocMobilizer> wow - really extendedversion of 'who is scared of Virginia Woolf'
May 15 22:28:17 <CIA-75> SHR: 03tom 07shr-themes * r25e1b99a3e3f 10/gtk/shr-theme-gtk-e17lookalike/ (7 files): gtk theme: more corrections to theme. everything works better now
May 15 22:28:27 <CIA-75> SHR: 03tom 07shr-themes * r1ac9463402f2 10/gtk/shr-theme-gtk-e17lookalike/ (gtkradiobutton gtkrc gtktoolbar gtktoolbutton): gtk theme: more cleaning of the theme
May 15 22:35:25 <mirko> mirko-paroli: ah, shit - paroli now relies on embryo, i remember
May 15 22:35:40 <mirko> and embryo needs to get compiled against recent efl-libs
May 15 22:35:41 <mirko-paroli> mirko: yeah, we speeded up
May 15 22:35:48 <mirko-paroli> and there is more embryo to come :)
May 15 22:35:48 <mirko> so i have to upgrade all the efl-stuff first
May 15 22:36:05 <mirko> then get embryo packaged
May 15 22:36:24 <mirko-paroli> yepp
May 15 22:37:45 <mirko-paroli> k this feels like the right time to have a good-night cig and sleep for 4 hours
May 15 22:39:31 <mirko> mirko-paroli: hehe
May 15 22:39:45 <mirko> mirko-paroli: i'll join a party :)
May 15 22:40:05 <mirko> dbus-issue is solved - upgrading efl-stuff isn't the right task for now :)
May 15 22:41:19 <mirko-paroli> hehe
May 15 22:41:30 <mirko-paroli> party, party, party
May 15 22:42:49 <mickeyl> last thing we need is separation
May 15 22:42:54 <mickeyl> mobile space is fragmented enough
May 15 22:42:59 <mickeyl> without us quarreling ;)
May 15 22:49:44 <TAsn> bah, webkit has a bug, label on gtk button doesn't respect theme color.
May 15 22:52:15 <DocScrutinizer> wow my xchat backscroll doesn't last for a single day :-)
May 15 22:52:38 <TAsn> DocMobilizer, duh. ppl talk a lot here. ;]
May 15 22:52:44 <TAsn> well, anyhow, I'm off to bed, night.
May 15 22:52:53 <DocScrutinizer> night TAsn :)
May 15 22:59:24 <mirko-paroli> i'll join the row of zzZZzz
May 15 22:59:28 <mirko-paroli> night everyone
May 15 23:13:56 <CIA-75> freesmartphone.org: 03dos 07framework * r504f93b72247 10/framework/subsystems/opimd/pimb_sim_messages_fso.py: opimd: SIM_Messages_FSO: some initial work
May 15 23:17:08 <dos1|neo> someone not sleeping here? ;)
May 15 23:44:39 <DocScrutinizer> dos: I'm never sleeping. but you left chan :-/
May 16 00:12:59 <DocScrutinizer> ~seen mickeyl
May 16 00:12:59 <bzzbot> mickeyl <i=mickey@openmoko/coreteam/mickey> was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko-cdevel, 1h 30m ago, saying: 'without us quarreling ;)'.
May 16 00:23:35 <DocScrutinizer> PaulFertser: awake?
May 16 00:24:48 <mirko> hrmf! 10 euros fee and the club was a shit...
May 16 00:25:25 <DocScrutinizer> nah, "quiet earth" time again
May 16 00:25:31 * DocScrutinizer away for TV
May 16 00:25:34 <mirko> pff
May 16 00:25:42 <DocScrutinizer> pfff :)) ???
May 16 00:25:52 <mirko> tv...
May 16 00:25:53 <mirko> ;)
May 16 00:26:14 <mirko> hacking XOR sleeping XOR partying
May 16 00:26:42 <mirko> will choose "sleeping" now (at least for me :)) - bye
May 16 00:26:53 <DocScrutinizer> cya
May 16 00:26:55 <DocScrutinizer> n8
May 16 00:27:19 <DocScrutinizer> ~seen dave
May 16 00:27:19 <bzzbot> dave <n=dave@pool-138-89-1-87.mad.east.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko-cdevel, 29d 11h 6m 25s ago, saying: 'dos1, I thought opimd was just a legend!? :o'.
May 16 00:27:25 <DocScrutinizer> darn
May 16 00:28:59 * DocScrutinizer is really concerned about Dave :-S
May 16 00:30:04 <DocScrutinizer> really hope he didn't kill himself by some weird tests involving a Neo battery
May 16 00:30:31 <DocScrutinizer> or some transformers
May 16 00:30:50 <mwester> bats.
May 16 00:32:40 <DocScrutinizer> hehe
May 16 00:33:12 <DocScrutinizer> mwester: those all emigrated to me. He was treating then in a way they didn't like ;-)
May 16 00:33:33 <mwester> :-O   The mind boggles!
May 16 00:33:34 <DocScrutinizer>  s/then/them/
May 16 00:33:52 <mwester> ~wake up!
May 16 00:33:58 <mwester> ~botsnack
May 16 00:33:58 <bzzbot> aw, gee, mwester
May 16 00:34:04 <mwester> stupid bot.
May 16 00:34:12 <DocScrutinizer> nah, I gave him a brake by a <space>
May 16 00:34:30 <DocScrutinizer> intentionally
May 16 00:34:38 <mwester> ah
May 16 00:35:44 <DocScrutinizer> mwester: any new results wrt to uptime with sleep4-fix?
May 16 00:36:02 <DocScrutinizer> aka #1024-bigC ;-D
May 16 00:36:21 <DocScrutinizer> it seems to be always bigC, noticed that? straaange
May 16 00:36:22 <mwester> It seems to work.  No negative effects have been noticed here.
May 16 00:36:42 <mwester> Yeah, it does seem that the gta02 has issues with C
May 16 00:36:51 <mwester> Audio, buzz, now GSM.
May 16 00:36:58 <mwester> oh -- and SD card.
May 16 00:37:05 <DocScrutinizer> maybe those were expensive back when ;-)
May 16 00:37:22 <DocScrutinizer> well SD isn't that big anyway
May 16 00:37:26 <mwester> Or perhaps whomever designed the device was not a ham radio operator.
May 16 00:37:28 <DocScrutinizer> 10pF
May 16 00:37:38 <DocScrutinizer> you bet
May 16 00:38:18 <DocScrutinizer> that's one of he advantages I take from my background over the TPE EE :)
May 16 00:39:09 <DocScrutinizer> I learnt to build decent RF stuff the hard way
May 16 00:39:15 <mwester> Yep; I find that many folks continue to assume that modern computers are "digital", when in fact from a EE point-of-view, they are full of analog and RF engineering.
May 16 00:39:31 <DocScrutinizer> ack, full ack
May 16 00:39:59 <DocScrutinizer> not even the "digital parts" are really that
May 16 00:40:18 <DocScrutinizer> basically even a gate is stochastic
May 16 00:40:47 <DocScrutinizer> quantum physics in transistors ;-D
May 16 00:41:24 <DocScrutinizer> there's no *guarantee* they will operate correctly each and every time
May 16 00:41:25 <mwester> I recall a lesson by one of my teachers; he had a lab exercise where we put a 7400-series inverter in a configuration to make it operate as a very high-gain amplifier --- to make a point, which was that digital isn't really digital. 
May 16 00:42:05 <DocScrutinizer> yeah, but 7413 was much better suited for thing like these
May 16 00:42:11 <mwester> true.
May 16 00:42:43 <mwester> I must say that I am somewhat concerned about the type of the caps in the device; are tantalum caps falling out of favor then?
May 16 00:42:44 <DocScrutinizer> err, at least for creating a 27MHz transmitter out of 2 components
May 16 00:43:10 <DocScrutinizer> mwester: sorry, please rephrase
May 16 00:43:53 <DocScrutinizer> (for things like amps a 7404 was perfect)
May 16 00:43:55 <mwester> It looks to me that Om uses nothing but ceramic caps; i would have expected to see more tantalum caps (better at RF freqs).  
May 16 00:44:43 <DocScrutinizer> not exactly. they have different benefit, but mainly I guess they are a PITA at reflow
May 16 00:45:11 <DocScrutinizer> for RF i think ceram-cap are better
May 16 00:46:42 <DocScrutinizer> but for sure I'd use low ESR tantalum for whole PMU buffering
May 16 00:47:09 <DocScrutinizer> (have to admit I'm not aware which type we're actually using now for this)
May 16 00:48:36 <DocScrutinizer> mwester: alphaone reported strange things about his #1024-fixed devices. Needs further investigations though
May 16 00:51:09 <DocScrutinizer> mwester: there seem to be indications the device doesn't enter any sleep-state now, at least after some external trigger which might ne a phonecall. Thus my question about your results on standby time after fixing c1009
May 16 00:52:20 <DocScrutinizer> mwester: either you fixed #1024 which should result in a considerably increased standby time. Or the fix failed, and it's even worse now
May 16 00:52:48 <DocScrutinizer> at least now and then (i.e. after you got a call)
May 16 00:56:15 <DocScrutinizer> well, anyway. away for TV now. hope there's sth decent
May 16 00:57:48 <DocScrutinizer> what boils down to "doc is using his N810 now" ;-)
May 16 01:02:52 <mwester> Sorry - phone call from kid.    I'll make a point to check more closely to see that it is in deep sleep.
May 16 01:02:53 <mwester> :)
May 16 01:06:45 <DocScrutinizer> great
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